Bicycles vs. carts

[Ben Franklin]

While driving south on Buena Vista, a single bicyclists was peddling in the left lane and cars had to get into the right lane to pass him. I have also observed bicycle groups doing the same thing. I'm not against bicycles using the road, but why can't all carts have as much equal access on the same roads as bicycles

I'd love to take my cart to Seven Mile Drive, even if it's just to cross the 466A at Pinella's Place. It wouldn't be hard to do and would most likely increase business and revenues for Wildwood and the county.

[ctmurray]

Bicycles pre-date cars, so were on the roads ahead of cars. So the rules were written such that bikes have the same access to roads as cars. Bike access to roads is important to general commerce in the US, in some places people bike to work and provide services, think of a crowded city for example. The bike in the left lane is legal. Probably they were preparing for a 3/4 turn around a roundabout which is legally done from the left lane. Golf carts came after cars, when safety was a bigger concern in society, so the rule makers decided that unprotected carts could only be on roads with low speed limits to limit the damage of an accident and the speed difference between cars and carts would be less. These rules (and the multimodal paths, tunnels and bridges here) allow for cart access to (nearly?) everywhere in the Villages.

[Ben Franklin]

Bicycles pre-date cars, so were on the roads ahead of cars. So the rules were written such that bikes have the same access to roads as cars. Bike access to roads is important to general commerce in the US, in some places people bike to work and provide services, think of a crowded city for example. The bike in the left lane is legal. Probably they were preparing for a 3/4 turn around a roundabout which is legally done from the left lane. Golf carts came after cars, when safety was a bigger concern in society, so the rule makers decided that unprotected carts could only be on roads with low speed limits to limit the damage of an accident and the speed difference between cars and carts would be less. These rules (and the multimodal paths, tunnels and bridges here) allow for cart access to (nearly?) everywhere in the Villages.

"Bicycles pre-date cars, so were on the roads ahead of cars." And horses & buggy's predated bicycles, and people predated horses. So does that mean horse and people can walk in the roadway?

No, the lone bicyclist and the bike group were not going to make a left anytime soon. Gas carts pay a road tax, bicycles don't. However, I have already stated that I have no problem with bicycles sharing the road. I also believe carts should be able to access certain roads and places of business where no cart path is available.

[Stu from NYC]

Why cant bikes stay in the golf cart lanes as speeds are similar.

[brianherlihy]

i drive a golf cart/ and bike riders dont stop at stop sines and go on red lites so now i dont stop at stop sines and i go fast and i dont care about bike riders :bigbow::bigbow::bigbow::a040::a040::a040:

[Vikingjunior]

Actual dedicated bike lanes like how big cities do would be helpful.

I personally think people who ride bikes on roads like Buena Vista have a death wish.

[Bilyclub]

Why cant bikes stay in the golf cart lanes as speeds are similar.

Says the guy who doesn't own a cart.

[Stu from NYC]

Says the guy who doesn't own a cart.

Differences in speed on a highway or well trafficked road way can be deadly. Since bikes and carts go about the same speed would that not make sense to share road?

[Bogie Shooter]

Why cant bikes stay in the golf cart lanes as speeds are similar.

There are no golf cart lanes on BV.

[dtennent]

i drive a golf cart/ and bike riders dont stop at stop sines and go on red lites so now i dont stop at stop sines and i go fast and i dont care about bike riders :bigbow::bigbow::bigbow::a040::a040::a040:

When a similar thread arose about a year ago, I decided to observe golf carts coming to intersections. I stopped counting after 100 carts. Results - 86 carts did not make a complete stop at any stop sign. Of the other 14, there were golf carts coming down the intersecting path for 10. Only 4 people came to a complete stop without a golf cart near by.

I have to admit that I roll through intersections if I don't see any traffic - that includes both my golf cart and my bicycle. However, given what I see from cars and golf carts around here, I never assume someone is going to stop at a stop sign. I also don't go out onto Morse and Buena Vista south of 466.

[Stu from NYC]

There are no golf cart lanes on BV.

But when there are what I think are called multi modal lanes why not have bicycles on that?

[VApeople]

Results - 86 carts did not make a complete stop at any stop sign.

When I am driving into or out of our neighborhood of Osceola Hills, the cart riders are supposed to stop to let me drive through.

From my observation, 100% of them stop. If one didn't, I would have hit them.

[Toymeister]

I'm not against bicycles using the road, but why can't all carts have as much equal access on the same roads as bicycles


Because it is legal for bicycles to be on the road an illegal for carts to be on the road.

There is nothing more to this discussion.

[tophcfa]

Bicycles versus Carts? I will put my money on the carts!

[Ben Franklin]

Because it is legal for bicycles to be on the road an illegal for carts to be on the road.

There is nothing more to this discussion.

So when someone says jump...?

[Two Bills]

So when someone says jump...?

You answer, "How high Sergeant?":icon_wink:

[Dilligas]

Because it is legal for bicycles to be on the road an illegal for carts to be on the road.

There is nothing more to this discussion.
Yes, however crossing at a light controlled intersection is also legal (north of TV on SR 441/27), so crossing at Pinallas to Trailwinds should be legal. (Not a state law, because it is done across SR 301 in Sun City Center, Fl also)

[tsmall22204]

It is not the chicken or the egg, bicyclists do not comply with the very rules they whine that they want cars to obey. If bicyclists would take out their own trash, the car/bicycle relationship would be much better.

[golfing eagles]

Because it is legal for bicycles to be on the road an illegal for carts to be on the road.

There is nothing more to this discussion.

Actually, there IS more to the discussion.

I don't think the OP was looking for WHAT the law is, but rather WHY it is.

[nick demis]

When a similar thread arose about a year ago, I decided to observe golf carts coming to intersections. I stopped counting after 100 carts. Results - 86 carts did not make a complete stop at any stop sign. Of the other 14, there were golf carts coming down the intersecting path for 10. Only 4 people came to a complete stop without a golf cart near by.

I have to admit that I roll through intersections if I don't see any traffic - that includes both my golf cart and my bicycle. However, given what I see from cars and golf carts around here, I never assume someone is going to stop at a stop sign. I also don't go out onto Morse and Buena Vista south of 466.

I'll bet that if you count cars that don't come to a full stop, the numbers will probably be similar.

[ithos]

Just because it is legal does not make it a wise decision. Lone bicyclists riding on Morse or BV creates the potential for deadly accidents due to the differential in speed and smaller profiles. I have seen at least two close calls in the roundabouts.

If you want to go on a long bike ride, then buy a rack for your car and travel to an area with bike lanes.

[DaleDivine]

When a similar thread arose about a year ago, I decided to observe golf carts coming to intersections. I stopped counting after 100 carts. Results - 86 carts did not make a complete stop at any stop sign. Of the other 14, there were golf carts coming down the intersecting path for 10. Only 4 people came to a complete stop without a golf cart near by.

I have to admit that I roll through intersections if I don't see any traffic - that includes both my golf cart and my bicycle. However, given what I see from cars and golf carts around here, I never assume someone is going to stop at a stop sign. I also don't go out onto Morse and Buena Vista south of 466.


IMHO at least 90% of the stop signs in TV should be YIELD signs.
:clap2::clap2:

[La lamy]

Why cant bikes stay in the golf cart lanes as speeds are similar.

Stu you must be a professional cyclist to be at 20 MPH. The average is 12 MPH.

[mydavid]

While driving south on Buena Vista, a single bicyclists was peddling in the left lane and cars had to get into the right lane to pass him. I have also observed bicycle groups doing the same thing. I'm not against bicycles using the road, but why can't all carts have as much equal access on the same roads as bicycles

I'd love to take my cart to Seven Mile Drive, even if it's just to cross the 466A at Pinella's Place. It wouldn't be hard to do and would most likely increase business and revenues for Wildwood and the county. People and bikes and even thoes little scooters disables use can cross main roads at a light so why shouldn't golf carts be able too.

[La lamy]

When a similar thread arose about a year ago, I decided to observe golf carts coming to intersections. I stopped counting after 100 carts. Results - 86 carts did not make a complete stop at any stop sign. Of the other 14, there were golf carts coming down the intersecting path for 10. Only 4 people came to a complete stop without a golf cart near by.

I have to admit that I roll through intersections if I don't see any traffic - that includes both my golf cart and my bicycle. However, given what I see from cars and golf carts around here, I never assume someone is going to stop at a stop sign. I also don't go out onto Morse and Buena Vista south of 466.

I also used to roll through stops if no one was near, but a cop stopped me on Rio Grande and Del Mar for not doing my full stop. Now I'm one of the very few who always do my full stop. I feel stupid, but definitely don't want a ticket. Beware the cops will stop you if you don't.

[PurePeach]

Uh, yes there are.

[Altavia]

Stu you must be a professional cyclist to be at 20 MPH. The average is 12 MPH.

The e-bikes do 20 mph or more, would be nice if those riders used the diamond lanes when available.

[Girlcopper]

Bicycles pre-date cars, so were on the roads ahead of cars. So the rules were written such that bikes have the same access to roads as cars. Bike access to roads is important to general commerce in the US, in some places people bike to work and provide services, think of a crowded city for example. The bike in the left lane is legal. Probably they were preparing for a 3/4 turn around a roundabout which is legally done from the left lane. Golf carts came after cars, when safety was a bigger concern in society, so the rule makers decided that unprotected carts could only be on roads with low speed limits to limit the damage of an accident and the speed difference between cars and carts would be less. These rules (and the multimodal paths, tunnels and bridges here) allow for cart access to (nearly?) everywhere in the Villages.

Yes, bikes can be on the road and MUST follow the same rules as a car. Its Florida law not just a courtesy thing. No bike should be holding up traffic in the left lane and can be given a citation for impeding traffic. They also must follow all laws for vehicle traffic and can be given a citation just like a driver. They are supposed to ride single file on the right side of the road. Not 3 abreast blocking lanes. Drivers must give them 2 feet leeway when passing them. So, if us drivers have to be careful passing them and allowing more room , maybe they should have some care about their own safety. Anyone who bike rides and impedes traffic in any way can be cited and should be. Im an avid rider and these knuckleheads give us all a bad name. If you dont know bike laws and rules. Look them up. Its public record and not a secret the cops keep.

[Hackercraft]

Just remember that if you hit one of these bicycles it is always your fault. You will be crucified on this forum and the local press. The fact that they all abuse and ignore all traffic signs will never come up. IT IS YOUR FAULT.

[CFrance]

Uh, yes there are.
Who are you talking to?

[Fastskiguy]

While driving south on Buena Vista, a single bicyclists was peddling in the left lane and cars had to get into the right lane to pass him. I have also observed bicycle groups doing the same thing. I'm not against bicycles using the road, but why can't all carts have as much equal access on the same roads as bicycles

I'd love to take my cart to Seven Mile Drive, even if it's just to cross the 466A at Pinella's Place. It wouldn't be hard to do and would most likely increase business and revenues for Wildwood and the county.

I guarantee there was a reason for the cyclists you saw for riding in the left lane on buena vista, probably to make a left hand turn or take the third exit from a roundabout. They saw a gap in traffic, they moved over into the correct lane while they had a chance.

As far as why you can't take your golf car on regular roads, my theory (just a theory!) is decades of lobbying from big auto and oil companies have made it damn near impossible to use anything other than cars for transportation in this country without risking lift and limb. It's better here than in most places in the US but it's still ridiculously difficult.

Be safe out there guys :)

Joe

[Fisherman]

I find the opposite. Numerous times the carts and bicyclists roll in front of me, without stopping, as I pull through the gate by Burnsed. They never stop, even when they see the gate arm has lifted and I need to pull ahead. It has become worse since they opened the bridge over 44. The traffic on that path has increased immensely. Recently, three times I have had to slam on my brakes when driving down Deskin Lane as a man on bicycle flys through the side streets never stopping. I rarely see bicyclists stop at the stop signs within our neighborhood. Many cars and carts don’t either. And as you know, Deskin Lane is a curvy, narrow, busy thoroughfare.

[Toymeister]

The e-bikes do 20 mph or more, would be nice if those riders used the diamond lanes when available.

Except out Governor signed into LAW that ebikes are allowed anywhere bicycles are allowed unless specifically prohibited, effective August 2020. So again this discussion circles around to cyclists operating their bikes as our elected lawmakers intended.

[Windguy]

It is not the chicken or the egg, bicyclists do not comply with the very rules they whine that they want cars to obey. If bicyclists would take out their own trash, the car/bicycle relationship would be much better.
What things do cyclists do that cars and carts don’t do? Name even one.

Do cars, carts, and bikes treat most stop signs at yield signs? Yes.
Do cars, carts, and bikes signal most turns in advance? No.
Do cars, carts, and bikes come to a complete stop when making a right turn on red? No.
Do most cars and bikes appropriately get in the left lane a half mile ahead of a left turn? Yes.

I’ll name one thing that is different. Is it dangerous for a car or cart to come to a complete stop? No, but it is for cyclists who clip into their pedals.

If you obey all traffic rules, you are one in 1,000. You don’t have the right to complain about others if don’t follow the strict letter of the law.

What’s really at issue here is that drivers don’t like being delayed for 30 seconds because cyclists are legally sharing the road.

[crash]

"Bicycles pre-date cars, so were on the roads ahead of cars." And horses & buggy's predated bicycles, and people predated horses. So does that mean horse and people can walk in the roadway?

No, the lone bicyclist and the bike group were not going to make a left anytime soon. Gas carts pay a road tax, bicycles don't. However, I have already stated that I have no problem with bicycles sharing the road. I also believe carts should be able to access certain roads and places of business where no cart path is available.

You can already do that if you register your cart and add windshield wipers and seat belts. In other words make it street legal. You can then access roads with speed limits of up to 35 mph.

[toeser]

I am a high-miles bike rider who rides seven days per week. I put more miles on my bicycle than many people put on their car.

While I understand it is perfectly legal for a bicycle to be on the 35+ mph roads, if they are there for purely recreational riding, I think it's a terrible practice. When the roads are busy, every single car that has to go around the biker takes a risk merging into faster traffic on the left. I think one has to be a bit of a prima donna to inconvenience so many other people.

[DAVES]

I ride a bike, drive a golf cart and a car.
Laws? We all know the chance of people knowing subtle complex sections of the driving code is slight. The chance of them following them is far slighter.

The term accident is not correct. Most accidents like 99% are avoidable.

Control of the situation. You have far more control over what YOU choose to do than the other driver no matter whether they on on a bike, a golf cart or a car.

[toeser]

I also used to roll through stops if no one was near, but a cop stopped me on Rio Grande and Del Mar for not doing my full stop. Now I'm one of the very few who always do my full stop. I feel stupid, but definitely don't want a ticket. Beware the cops will stop you if you don't.

Bikers should push the legislature to adopt the "Idaho Stop" law. It allows bikers to safely treat stop signs as yield signs. It is a safety issue. When bikes are made to come to a full stop, it takes them much longer to get through an intersection because of inertia. This law does not allow a biker to blast through a stop sign at 20 mph, but to carefully roll through when there is no traffic to yield to.

I ride tens of thousands of miles and have never had an accident.

[Bilyclub]

What things do cyclists do that cars and carts don’t do? Name even one.

I’ll name one thing that is different. Is it dangerous for a car or cart to come to a complete stop? No, but it is for cyclists who clip into their pedals.

If you obey all traffic rules, you are one in 1,000. You don’t have the right to complain about others if don’t follow the strict letter of the law.

What’s really at issue here is that drivers don’t like being delayed for 30 seconds because cyclists are legally sharing the road.


Why would you clip into pedals if it's dangerous? Sounds like an unsafe practice.

[RayAmb]

More people are injured or killed on bicycles than carts. Probably because they share the road. If the law enforcement enforced the traffic regulations. Everyone would be safer. By the way did you know there is a 316 Fla. Statue that prohibits the left lane usage except for certain maneuvers. The person on the bicycle seems to have been in violation of at least 2 316 F.s. And should have been cited. Bicycles just no longer fit roadways in today’s traffic environment. Bike paths yes,,,,, golf cart path ???? Look at the hit and run statistics for bicycles. THINK SAFETY FIRST.

[Larchap49]

What things do cyclists do that cars and carts don’t do? Name even one.

Do cars, carts, and bikes treat most stop signs at yield signs? Yes.
Do cars, carts, and bikes signal most turns in advance? No.
Do cars, carts, and bikes come to a complete stop when making a right turn on red? No.
Do most cars and bikes appropriately get in the left lane a half mile ahead of a left turn? Yes.

I’ll name one thing that is different. Is it dangerous for a car or cart to come to a complete stop? No, but it is for cyclists who clip into their pedals.

If you obey all traffic rules, you are one in 1,000. You don’t have the right to complain about others if don’t follow the strict letter of the law.

What’s really at issue here is that drivers don’t like being delayed for 30 seconds because cyclists are legally sharing the road.

I agree with almost all you said, but (I am an avid bike rider by the way) bicycling groups definitely think the entire road belongs to them. I've never seen an exception to that. For the most part they fill the road, they don't even slow down much less stop at intersections of smaller roads or cart paths. Most have mirrors and know when they are holding up traffic but don't care.. Also if you choose to ride on a road with no shoulder or bike path and it has stop signs and you have your feet clipped onto pedals you are an idiot. Why not try driving your car with your foot clipped to the gas pedal. With all the older vision impaired drivers here I never ride where there is not a MM path, a cart lane, or bike lane. I would never ride a bike down BV or MB that is a death wish and I plan on enjoying my retirement not being killed by a half blind driver in a hurry to nowhere important to do nothing or maybe not wanting to be late for Judge Judy after going out for a lunch time martini.

[rockyhyder]

Dr Franklin,
You’re almost 300 years old! Claim the grandfather clause or founding father clause and do whatever the hell you want! 😂

[Villagesgal]

Bicycles are allowed by law to be on public streets. It's the law in every state. Golf carts are not legally allowed to drive on a public road unless a community changes the law for their City. Lobby to change the law if you want to drive your golf cart on a road with a speed limit of 35 mph or more, who knows Sumter County might consider it. You want change, be proactive and try to bring it about instead of just complaining.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Bicycles, having no motor, are therefore exempt from the motor vehicle code/laws/regulations. They're not motor vehicles. They are regulated by the specific road's rules, rather than the motor vehicle code.

Bicycles are not allowed on interstate highways (such as 4 or 75 or Florida's Turnpike or I-95). They are given similar rights and regulations to pedestrians, skateboarders, and electric wheelchairs.

I don't know why anyone would be questioning the rules about bicycles in comparison to the rules about golf carts. Bicycles can't carry passengers (motorcycles can so you can't even compare to that). Bicycles don't have motors (ebikes are in a different category). Bicycles don't have to be on a road at all; many are designed to ride on the grass, over bumps, through rough terrain (such as mine, which is a hybrid trail bike). Unlike passengers, bicycles, when they ARE on the road, are required to ride in the same direction as traffic. And so if they need to take a left, they MUST move over to the left lane. Bicycle riders -can- be ticketed for speeding. Bicycles can exceed the speed limit. Can, meaning "capable." Not "permitted."

[Ben Franklin]

You can already do that if you register your cart and add windshield wipers and seat belts. In other words make it street legal. You can then access roads with speed limits of up to 35 mph.

The point would be then - why don't bicycles have to register and safety belts.

[Fastskiguy]

I agree with almost all you said, but (I am an avid bike rider by the way) bicycling groups definitely think the entire road belongs to them. I've never seen an exception to that. For the most part they fill the road, they don't even slow down much less stop at intersections of smaller roads or cart paths. Most have mirrors and know when they are holding up traffic but don't care.. .

They are filling the space so that cars must make an actual "pass" using the other lane instead of trying to squeeze by where there is no room. That "squeezing by" maneuver cars sometimes try to do is incredibly dangerous for the cyclist so it's much safer for the cyclist to "close the door".

Of course the car driver is going to have to slow down for a few seconds (or possibly even one minute) and for some the burden is just too great.

[Ben Franklin]

Bicycles, having no motor, are therefore exempt from the motor vehicle code/laws/regulations. They're not motor vehicles. They are regulated by the specific road's rules, rather than the motor vehicle code.

Bicycles are not allowed on interstate highways (such as 4 or 75 or Florida's Turnpike or I-95). They are given similar rights and regulations to pedestrians, skateboarders, and electric wheelchairs.

I don't know why anyone would be questioning the rules about bicycles in comparison to the rules about golf carts. Bicycles can't carry passengers (motorcycles can so you can't even compare to that). Bicycles don't have motors (ebikes are in a different category). Bicycles don't have to be on a road at all; many are designed to ride on the grass, over bumps, through rough terrain (such as mine, which is a hybrid trail bike). Unlike passengers, bicycles, when they ARE on the road, are required to ride in the same direction as traffic. And so if they need to take a left, they MUST move over to the left lane. Bicycle riders -can- be ticketed for speeding. Bicycles can exceed the speed limit. Can, meaning "capable." Not "permitted."

Not really interested that some politicians created a law. The question is why? Can an unmotorized wheel chair use the roadways? A unicycle? Skate boards? Can anything not motorized use the roadways? I'm looking more for the logic as opposed to the law.

[Rodneysblue]

Well for one , golf cars are wider than 18".

[willbush]

Yes, bikes can be on the road and MUST follow the same rules as a car. Its Florida law not just a courtesy thing. No bike should be holding up traffic in the left lane and can be given a citation for impeding traffic. They also must follow all laws for vehicle traffic and can be given a citation just like a driver. They are supposed to ride single file on the right side of the road. Not 3 abreast blocking lanes. Drivers must give them 2 feet leeway when passing them. So, if us drivers have to be careful passing them and allowing more room , maybe they should have some care about their own safety. Anyone who bike rides and impedes traffic in any way can be cited and should be. Im an avid rider and these knuckleheads give us all a bad name. If you dont know bike laws and rules. Look them up. Its public record and not a secret the cops keep.
Actually it's 3 feet - Florida law requires that motorists give cyclists a minimum of three feet of clearance and reduce their speed. Same for Thirty-two states who have a law requiring a motorist to provide at least 3 feet of space when passing a bicyclist as of 2018.

[Toymeister]

The point would be then - why don't bicycles have safety belts.

You clearly don't understand physics.

In the age of social practices on the internet everyone seems to think their opinions are important.

No, they are not.

Bicycles are operating legally and as described, safely. Because YOU don't like it simply does not matter.

[Lakeside5012]

Roads were originally created for bicycle use. It was difficult for the users to ride on the rutted horse and carriage trails. Luckily, when cars were invented, the roads for them already existed. Today Florida state law allows for a bicycle to use the full lane on a two lane road where there is no bicycle lane. The best way to get your wish to ride the four lane roads free of bicycles is to lobby the Florida State Legislature. However, if they changed the law to allow you to drive in any lane you wished without being slowed by another vehicle, bicyclists would be restricted from riding any distances because roads outside The Villages do not have multi-modal paths. Many Villagers ride 40-100 miles per day outside The Villages. They have to use our residential streets at some point to get outside our area. Would it be better to have all of them in The Villages riding on the cart paths. Would you still complain when you got behind one or a group of bikes. And imagine how long it would take a car who is sitting behind a group of twelve bicycles to get through a four-way stop if each bike had to stop and allowing the other cars in the intersection to alternate their turns. Be careful what you wish for.

Most Villagers enjoy some activity. We all contribute by way of our amenities fees to building rec centers, courts, courses, pools, etc. so that they can enjoy their activities. Thankfully, we don't complain when our neighbor takes advantage of one of these that we are paying for when we ourselves my not choose to use them. Cyclists pay for their bikes and related equipment and use the roads that already exist without any additional cost to any Villager. Let's extend to them the same graciousness that we extend to those who use all the recreation facilities that we all pay for.

In Europe, motorists are quite accommodating to the bicyclists and extravagant cycle parking areas are found in most larger cities. They appreciate bicycles. The bicycle does not pollute, contributes to good physical and mental health, provides transportation at no cost to the user, and adds no cost to the community. Consider what the traffic would be like if each of those cycles was a motor vehicle, especially one pulling a trailer.

As for the cyclist riding in the left lane: no cyclist chooses to ride in the left lane unless they are following the law or considering a safety issue. It is more difficult and stressful be in the left-hand lane. Their mirrors are mounted on the left side of the bike or helmet leaving the right side blins. You were traveling much faster than the bike that you referenced so it may have been out of your view when it moved in or out of the left hand lane. Perhaps the cyclists had planned to make a turn that was not viable in the traffic that was surrounding him/her causing a route change. It happens to all of us no matter what our chosen vehicle is. We should stop second guessing other drivers unless we know they are doing something unlawful. Please stop pointing fingers at cyclists. Yes, some do not know the law, but drivers of carts and vehices also may be ignorant of a few laws and break many when they think the can do so safely. For instance, did you know that it is illegal for a vehicle to come within 3 feet of a bicycle on the road, even if passing on a two lane road. And although rolling stops are frowned on for bicycles, it is often much safer for cyclist to roll through a stop after checking traffic than putting a foot down at a stop and then restarting, especially in a group. A car driver who does not stop, may require 50 feet to bring his vehicle to a stop after going through a stop sign. A cyclist may need one foot. Not looking and not stopping is dangerous for all vehicle operators.

Be thankful that residents want to ride bikes. It keeps them healthy. They will not be taking up your doctors' appointments, parking spaces, and waits in pharmacy lines. They will not be slowing you down in the aisles of stores because it is difficult for them to move. They will be easy to pass on the road and they will probably be a safer driver in a car because they have learned to be so aware. Maybe that cyclist will be the one to offer to help you when a task is too physically difficult for you. Let's thank heaven for all of us who are concerned about our own personal well-being and are motivated enough to get the exercise that we need. It makes our whole community stronger.

[Polar Bear]

Bikers should push the legislature to adopt the "Idaho Stop" law. It allows bikers to safely treat stop signs as yield signs. It is a safety issue. When bikes are made to come to a full stop, it takes them much longer to get through an intersection because of inertia. This law does not allow a biker to blast through a stop sign at 20 mph, but to carefully roll through when there is no traffic to yield to...
Totally agree.

I think the law will eventually be adopted everywhere. The sooner the better.

[Altavia]

Bikers should push the legislature to adopt the "Idaho Stop" law. It allows bikers to safely treat stop signs as yield signs. It is a safety issue. When bikes are made to come to a full stop, it takes them much longer to get through an intersection because of inertia. This law does not allow a biker to blast through a stop sign at 20 mph, but to carefully roll through when there is no traffic to yield to.

I ride tens of thousands of miles and have never had an accident.

:coolsmiley:

[Altavia]

Except out Governor signed into LAW that ebikes are allowed anywhere bicycles are allowed unless specifically prohibited, effective August 2020. So again this discussion circles around to cyclists operating their bikes as our elected lawmakers intended.

Just to be clear, I wasn't questioning the LAW, (which is no reason to throw out courtesy and common sense...) I said it would be NICE if e-bikes used the diamond lanes when available. Especially in the southern sections with the extensive pedestrian paths (sidewalks) and separate diamond lanes for 20 mph vehicles like golf carts.

No doubt an ebike doing 20+ on a sidewalk would do some damage hitting a pedestrian.

[Worldseries27]

when a similar thread arose about a year ago, i decided to observe golf carts coming to intersections. I stopped counting after 100 carts. Results - 86 carts did not make a complete stop at any stop sign. Of the other 14, there were golf carts coming down the intersecting path for 10. Only 4 people came to a complete stop without a golf cart near by.

I have to admit that i roll through intersections if i don't see any traffic - that includes both my golf cart and my bicycle. However, given what i see from cars and golf carts around here, i never assume someone is going to stop at a stop sign. I also don't go out onto morse and buena vista south of 466.
i too have sworn to avoid morse code s o s blvd at all costs.
Ps. If going south on 301 from the north hang a left at darryl's restaurant & you'll be in brownwood in under 10 minutes
don't tell anybody

[Bertram00]

Bicycles versus Carts? I will put my money on the carts!

Capabilities, skills and attentiveness of bicycle riders vs cart drivers - I will put my money on the bicycle riders.

[Bertram00]

IMHO at least 90% of the stop signs in TV should be YIELD signs.
:clap2::clap2:

That would be an unnecessary expense to replace them as 90% of Villagers treat them as yield signs already, not to mention how many think yield signs mean stop even with no traffic for miles around.

[HORNET]

Bicycles have the right to operate by State Laws, with the same rights as automobiles on public roads.

[ohiosbestus]

I would suggest that the bicycles have vehicle licenses to be able to drive on the roads. Is that the law in Florida?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Bikers should push the legislature to adopt the "Idaho Stop" law. It allows bikers to safely treat stop signs as yield signs. It is a safety issue. When bikes are made to come to a full stop, it takes them much longer to get through an intersection because of inertia. This law does not allow a biker to blast through a stop sign at 20 mph, but to carefully roll through when there is no traffic to yield to.

I ride tens of thousands of miles and have never had an accident.

I agree 100% with this. I didn't know there was such a law, but it's genius. I'll look that up and see if there's any groups supporting the same here, and I'll offer my voice to their efforts.

[stanley]

Are cyclists supposed to ride single file?

Edit:

Found this...don't know if this link was posted....don't want to go through the whole thread

Info for Group Riding | Florida Bicycle Association (https://floridabicycle.org/for-club-cyclists/#:~:text=Two%20Abreast%20vs.-,Single%20File,to%20what%20impeding%20traffic%20me ans).

[Toymeister]

Duplicate

[Toymeister]

Just to be clear, I wasn't questioning the LAW, (which is no reason to throw out courtesy and common sense...) I said it would be NICE if e-bikes used the diamond lanes when available. Especially in the southern sections with the extensive pedestrian paths (sidewalks) and separate diamond lanes for 20 mph vehicles like golf carts.

No doubt an ebike doing 20+ on a sidewalk would do some damage hitting a pedestrian.

There is a whole lot of room of improvement on both sides.

First let's assume that no one petitions, successfully, to forbid ebikes from the pedestrian paths or change the recent state law which allows ebikes on those paths.

Walkers: walk on one side of the path. Be aware of your surroundings, yes that means get off your phone and do not use ear buds. Listen for the cyclist warning you of their approach. That may be verbal or a bell ringing. Acknowledge that you hear it (a hand wave). Keep your dog on a reasonable length lead, no one wants to hurt a dog or get a bite. Male walkers, get your hearing checked and treated.

Bikers: signal your approach, treat everyone as a blind deaf walker.

In my experience 50 to 70% of male walkers don't hear the frantic bell ringing behind them. Either they are deaf or think the ice cream man is coming. Women are much more likely to hear you if they aren't talking on the phone or listening to music. Most people appreciate the warning if they hear it.

We can all get along!

[stanley]

Walkers: walk on one side of the path. Be aware of your surroundings, yes that means get off your phone and do not use ear buds. Listen for the cyclist warning you of their approach. That may be verbal or a bell ringing.

Bikers: signal your approach, treat everyone as a blind deaf walker.


If walkers are supposed to walk against traffic, and cyclists are supposed to ride with the traffic, the walker would see the cyclist, and vise versa...no?

[Toymeister]

If walkers are supposed to walk against traffic, and cyclists are supposed to ride with the traffic, the walker would see the cyclist, and vise versa...no?

This is addressing a comment about pedestrian paths. There is no
"traffic" on pedestrian paths.

No you don't ride head on to every walker, you ride with them, on the same side of the path

[stanley]

This is addressing a comment about pedestrian paths. There is no
"traffic" on pedestrian paths.

No you don't ride head on to every walker, you ride with them, on the same side of the path

So pedestrian paths are all one way?
Just asking

[Toymeister]

So pedestrian paths are all one way?
Just asking

Pedestrian paths are common in the newest sections, they accommodate two way pedestrian s. The carts move on a diamond lane next to the car lane. The pedestrian lane and cart lanes merge into one at numerous points, at tunnels and bridges.

Bicycles have a choice, they can be on the pedestrian lane or the diamond lane. At many points walkers also have a choice. In either lane someone thinks cyclists are a nuisance and shouldn't be there but in the other lane. Carts don't like following you until they pass and as demonstrated here, and walkers think you are in "their" path.

[stanley]

Pedestrian paths are common in the newest sections, they accommodate two way pedestrian s. The carts move on a diamond lane next to the car lane. The pedestrian lane and cart lanes merge into one at numerous points, at tunnels and bridges.

Bicycles have a choice, they can be on the pedestrian lane or the diamond lane. At many points walkers also have a choice. In either lane someone thinks cyclists are a nuisance and shouldn't be there but in the other lane. Carts don't like following you until they pass and as demonstrated here, and walkers think you are in "their" path.

Thanks. I would have to see it to understand it

[Windguy]

Why would you clip into pedals if it's dangerous? Sounds like an unsafe practice.
It allows you to apply power to the pedals throughout the cycle—not just the downstroke.

[golfing eagles]

Bikers should push the legislature to adopt the "Idaho Stop" law. It allows bikers to safely treat stop signs as yield signs.

I agree. Bikers already treat stop signs as yield signs. Unfortunately, they also treat yield signs as if they aren't there, especially if entering a RB as a pack.

If a motorist traveling in a RB plows into a pack of cyclists who have blown through the yield sign, who is to blame????

[VApeople]

If a motorist traveling in a RB plows into a pack of cyclists who have blown through the yield sign, who is to blame????

The bikers.

[Fastskiguy]

I agree. Bikers already treat stop signs as yield signs. Unfortunately, they also treat yield signs as if they aren't there, especially if entering a RB as a pack.

If a motorist traveling in a RB plows into a pack of cyclists who have blown through the yield sign, who is to blame????

The motorist has right of way

But it can definitely be confusing when a big group of cyclists is going into a traffic circle and must split because of a car. Confusing on both sides!

[VApeople]

But it can definitely be confusing when a big group of cyclists is going into a traffic circle and must split because of a car. Confusing on both sides!

I drive slowly thru the roundabouts with my hand ready to press on the horn. I often give a long honk at people. One time I had to honk at two people in the same roundabout.

However, if I were doing a 3/4 turn in a roundabout and saw a group of bikers coming thru, I would definitely stop for them.

In our case, we love to ride our bikes but we do not do it anywhere north of Route 44. We go down to St. Catherine or Marsh Bend to ride on the beautiful trails that do not allow golf carts.

[bobdeb]

I was an avid runner and bicyclist in northern New England. Lots of fantastic hills. Remember those? So, please, I do know the appeal and benefits therein.

We rode a bit down here until my wife had an awful accident riding through a Village's tunnel. Major surgery and rehab followed.

Now I look upon bicyclists and sans helmet motorcycle riders much the same as do physicians. And that is as potential organ donors.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Where I come from, bicycles aren't supposed to ride on the sidewalks (other than kids on kiddie trikes or with training wheels who are still learning how to ride, in front of their own houses). If you want to ride a 2-wheeled bike, you're supposed to ride it in the road. I'd never ride a bike on a *pedestrian* path. The only "vehicle" that should be allowed on a *pedestrian* path would be your feet, roller skates, a wheelchair (manual or electric), one of those neat knee-scooters for people with a bad leg, maybe a skateboard. Whether that's the rule or not, I don't know. But that's what it should be.

[Jwhite7776]

It is not that difficult to be courteous to carts when riding a bike on the shared path. Lots of times I will pull over and let the carts pass. Most are appreciative of the jester. When I am in my cart I return the gesture to the cyclists. What is a few extra seconds.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

It is not that difficult to be courteous to carts when riding a bike on the shared path. Lots of times I will pull over and let the carts pass. Most are appreciative of the jester. When I am in my cart I return the gesture to the cyclists. What is a few extra seconds.

It really all depends. If I'm bicycling uphill, I'm not going to pull over and let a cart pass until I get to the top of the hill. Starting in the middle of a hill from a complete stop on a bicycle is very difficult to do.

I pull as far to the right as I can, and slow down if it's practical to do so, so that they can pass me. But there's no reason for me to stop for every golf cart that wants to pass (which would typically be every golf cart coming up behind me).

If it's not practical to let them pass me, I'll speed up and go as fast as I can, so as to minimize their need to slow down.

[Polar Bear]

When on my bike, I let carts go by all the time. I ride a hybrid specifically so I can safely exit the pavement onto the grass anytime I need to and ride on the grass for a short distance while the cart passes.

My main goal is of course self preservation :), but a close second is courtesy to the cart. It causes me no heartburn whatsoever...and almost no delay.

[VApeople]

Where I come from, bicycles aren't supposed to ride on the sidewalks

We do not care what the rules are where you came from.
We care about the rules in place here.

I'd never ride a bike on a *pedestrian* path.

In TV, that is allowed and we do it all the time

The only "vehicle" that should be allowed on a *pedestrian* path would be your feet, roller skates, a wheelchair (manual or electric), one of those neat knee-scooters for people with a bad leg, maybe a skateboard. Whether that's the rule or not, I don't know.

As you know, that is NOT the rule here.

On Sunday, we went down to St. Catherine and had a long and very enjoyable ride on the beautiful walking/biking paths.