The real truth about messenger RNA

[Tmarkwald]

Studies and clinical trials on RNA vaccines for other viruses – and even cancers – have been going on for a decade.

Nobody getting the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine is a test subject of any kind. These are not experimental vaccines in any way. And they do not modify your dna.

Three ways RNA is being used in the next generation of medical treatment (https://theconversation.com/three-ways-rna-is-being-used-in-the-next-generation-of-medical-treatment-158190)

[Swoop]

Studies and clinical trials on RNA vaccines for other viruses – and even cancers – have been going on for a decade.

Nobody getting the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine is a test subject of any kind. These are not experimental vaccines in any way. And they do not modify your dna.

Three ways RNA is being used in the next generation of medical treatment (https://theconversation.com/three-ways-rna-is-being-used-in-the-next-generation-of-medical-treatment-158190)

This quote come directly from the link you provided:
“The mRNA vaccines that are used to protect against SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) are the first of their kind to be licensed for widespread human use.”

Since 2010, most novel vaccines approved by the FDA required about 8 years of clinical development and were based on evidence from a median of 7 clinical trials, including at least 2 pivotal efficacy trials that were randomized, masked, and used a comparator group. Certainly not the case as it pertains the Covid vaccines...

[Tmarkwald]

This quote come directly from the link you provided:
“The mRNA vaccines that are used to protect against SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) are the first of their kind to be licensed for widespread human use.”


Yes, then it goes on to say that studies and clinical trials on RNA vaccines for other viruses – and even cancers – have been going on for a decade. And the key word is 'licensed', since they've passed the checks and trials and determined that the vaccine poses no health risk.

So, you have to either accept or reject the scientists who developed these mRna vaccines. Totally up to you.

I'm simply providing a link to the data. How anyone interprets the data is up to them. The point being made is that this technology and method wasn't created overnight - not by a long shot.

[Tmarkwald]

Since 2010, most novel vaccines approved by the FDA required about 8 years of clinical development and were based on evidence from a median of 7 clinical trials, including at least 2 pivotal efficacy trials that were randomized, masked, and used a comparator group. Certainly not the case as it pertains the Covid vaccines...


Preclinical work on therapeutic mRNA goes back at least to 1990, 20 years ago...

Want to Know More About mRNA Before Your COVID Jab? | MedPage Today (https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/89998)

Never Been Done Before?

While an mRNA vaccine has never been on the market anywhere in the world, mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans before, for at least four infectious diseases: rabies, influenza, cytomegalovirus, and Zika.

mRNA can target tumor-associated antigens expressed mainly by cancerous cells, like certain growth factors. These vaccines have been tested in a range of cancers, including acute myeloid leukemia, multiple myeloma, glioblastoma, melanoma, prostate cancer, and others.

Why Did Earlier Vaccines Stall?

"A major factor is that there's not a sense of urgency," Dennis Burton, PhD, of Scripps Translational Research Clinic in La Jolla, California, told MedPage Today.

Zika has been relatively contained; rabies vaccines are already sufficiently effective; and influenza remains a difficult target, Burton said.

...based on the sheer number of people who will be vaccinated for COVID-19, events will occur, and most will likely be unrelated to the vaccine.

"One of the things we're most concerned about is that people won't get vaccinated," he said. "But the risks of this disease are going to be way higher than the risks associated with vaccination."

“Clinical trials for 75,000 people show it’s safe and it’s 95 percent effective,” Dr. Weissman said. “That’s pretty good data to convince people that it is OK.”
While mRNA is a new technology, experts have been working on it for years.

“It’s not just as though these technologies were just starting to be developed during the pandemic,” Dr. Moss said. “There has been a lot of preparatory work.”


This is part of The Associated Press’ ongoing effort to fact-check misinformation that is shared widely online, including work with Facebook to identify and reduce the circulation of false stories on the platform.

Pfizer and Moderna did not skip animal trials (https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-9792931264)

[Boffin]

I thought the focus of this post was the definitive fact that the mRNA used in COVID vaccines does not modify DNA.

[Tmarkwald]

I thought the focus of this post was the definitive fact that the mRNA used in COVID vaccines does not modify DNA.

It is, along with the fact that mRNA is not new, but a well-tested methodology.

There's been so much misinformation from anti-vaxxers and 'quack' doctors I got interested enough to check.

I've been vaccinated - it's the only way we'll get through this quickly.

[Swoop]

It is, along with the fact that mRNA is not new, but a well-tested methodology.

There's been so much misinformation from anti-vaxxers and 'quack' doctors I got interested enough to check.

I've been vaccinated - it's the only way we'll get through this quickly.
Just because mRNA has been experimented with for 20 years, does not make it a “well tested methodology”...

[Boffin]

A little history:

[Tmarkwald]

A little history:

Nobody can read that - it's way too small

[Tmarkwald]

Just because mRNA has been experimented with for 20 years, does not make it a “well tested methodology”...

How many years and how many people does it take - initial testing was with 75,000 volunteers, 20 years and thousands more, and now we're at hundreds of millions inoculated.

You do realize that testing with mRNA vaccines started when Reagan was President? And NOBODY has has fatal consequences directly due to the technology?

This has been tested incredibly thoroughly.

Unfortunately, people think it's political rather than scientific or medical. Kinda like we've seen in the past where a medicine cures but because it is praised by someone you don't like, you take the other side purely out of spite.

There are people who believed all the nonsense about mRNA and are now dead, whereas the hundreds of millions who believe the doctors and scientists are out living their lives.

I choose life.

I can't convince the inconvincible. I just hope those who ignore the science don't pay the ultimate price.

[Tmarkwald]

Has anybody noticed that the only SAFE vaccines are the mRNA Vaccines?

Specifically Pfizer has come out on top, With Moderna have issues, but still available.

J & J has caused numerous issues and is now being pulled in some states;

AstraZeneca will not be imported into the US due to complications.

[Boffin]

Maybe a little better:

[roscoguy]

How many years and how many people does it take - initial testing was with 75,000 volunteers, 20 years and thousands more, and now we're at hundreds of millions inoculated.

You do realize that testing with mRNA vaccines started when Reagan was President? And NOBODY has has fatal consequences directly due to the technology?

This has been tested incredibly thoroughly.

Unfortunately, people think it's political rather than scientific or medical. Kinda like we've seen in the past where a medicine cures but because it is praised by someone you don't like, you take the other side purely out of spite.

There are people who believed all the nonsense about mRNA and are now dead, whereas the hundreds of millions who believe the doctors and scientists are out living their lives.

I choose life.

I can't convince the inconvincible. I just hope those who ignore the science don't pay the ultimate price.

Tmarkwald, thanks for this thread & for doing the research! The links you provided were very helpful, interesting and (to me) believable. Your penultimate comment above is also very true and, unfortunately, to be expected; there are still those who chose to believe that the earth is flat, among other things. Denying vaccine/medical science is just gonna happen...

[coffeebean]

I thought the focus of this post was the definitive fact that the mRNA used in COVID vaccines does not modify DNA.

The thread is titled, "The Real Truth About Messenger RNA". The focus is to educate about many aspects of the mRNA technology that folks are leery about. The focus, as far as I understand it is to also debunk the myths perpetuated by those conspiracy theories that try to undermine and scare people half to death about the mRNA technology.

There are enough people in our country who are totally against any vaccines and then add in this new technology that is actually not really "new" and we, as a country, will have a difficult time achieving a herd immunity SAFELY.

Going the way of Dr. Scott Atlas who advocates NATURAL herd immunity, is welcoming many more deaths than can be achieved with immunity from vaccines. It is imperative that those people who are either frightened, or do not trust the government or are just downright anti-vaxxers, need to be educated about these mRNA vaccines.

[coffeebean]

Just because mRNA has been experimented with for 20 years, does not make it a “well tested methodology”...
The RNA from the vaccine is actually eliminated from the body within hours. How can RNA possibly cause any "long term" side effects is what I would like to find out. Does anyone have any information that claims that "long term" effects of the mRNA vaccines are even a remote possibility? Please supply a link if you have that information. Thanks.

[coffeebean]

A little history:

This enclosed graphic is too small for me to read. Any chance you can provide a link?

[coffeebean]

Maybe a little better:

Better. Thank you.

Thank goodness for science and scientists who devote their professional lives for the good of man. Many thanks.

[Eg_cruz]

Studies and clinical trials on RNA vaccines for other viruses – and even cancers – have been going on for a decade.

Nobody getting the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine is a test subject of any kind. These are not experimental vaccines in any way. And they do not modify your dna.

Three ways RNA is being used in the next generation of medical treatment (https://theconversation.com/three-ways-rna-is-being-used-in-the-next-generation-of-medical-treatment-158190)
Trusting Big Pharma is like trusting the government

Can’t believe either one of them

[cafw1]

I had my 2 vaccines but I truly believe that it's longitudinal studies over 10, 20 or 30 yrs that tell the true story of what vaccines or environmental factors really do to our bodies.

[maggie1]

Denying vaccine/medical science is just gonna happen...

Sad, but true.

[maggie1]

I had my 2 vaccines but I truly believe that it's longitudinal studies over 10, 20 or 30 yrs that tell the true story of what vaccines or environmental factors really do to our bodies.

Just be glad that you aren't one of the 500,000+ that either poo-pooed the vaccine or weren't fortunate enough to have had it available for them to use. I, too, have had my Pfizer series, and with my being 79 years old, I couldn't care less if the vaccine causes me to grow a third eye. At least I'll still be upright and taking nourishment, and not included in the 500,000+.

[Tmarkwald]

Trusting Big Pharma is like trusting the government

Can’t believe either one of them

And that's why we listen to the science, and that's the whole reason for the posts... too many people talk, too few actually research and read the facts.

When I post, I send the links and substantiation for the comments.

[crash]

Just because mRNA has been experimented with for 20 years, does not make it a “well tested methodology”...

How many years would it take to make it well test? We would still be dying from measles, mumps and crippled by polio if we followed your timeline.

[allsport]

Those people were the ones that slept through high school science classes.

[jbrown132]

Just because mRNA has been experimented with for 20 years, does not make it a “well tested methodology”...

Maybe we could have waited the normal 5-8 years to release it. World wide another twenty million people dead, economies destroyed, massive mental health issues, hundreds of thousands if not millions of suicides, and a complete generation of uneducated kids with depression and other socialization issues. Life if full of risks, and sometimes you just have to take one. I think these vaccines are way down the list as far as risks are concerned.

[merrymini]

Some people posting here “believe the science.” In fact, the science frequently is inconclusive or directly opposed to other science, much like economists and climate control “geniuses.” You choose to believe you did the right thing by taking inoculations and falsely conclude that people who do not will die or are “wrong” not to take or are antivaxxers. In fact, many people want to consider their options before rolling with the masses. The death number of 2019 and 2020 are about 50,000 different (50,000 more deaths in 2020) not 500,000 different, indicating 500,000 MORE people did NOT DIE OF THE CHINESE VIRUS. The virus has been a useful political, control and money tool and continues to be so since big pharm is now coming out with a booster shot. Get in line.

[oneclickplus]

[I]

"But [B]the risks of this disease are going to be way higher than the risks associated with vaccination."

The statement above ... no matter who is making it ... is what I reject. It is stated as if it is fact but it is not. With a 99.97% chance of NOT DYING from COVID, I personally judge the risk of the shot (not a vaccine) to be higher than just waiting my turn to be exposed to the virus.

The shot (not a vaccine) does not prevent infection; it only (possibly) protects from getting sick after infection. Everyone, everywhere will be exposed / infected at some time, somewhere. I choose to trust my unaltered immune system. And it is my choice.

You get to make your choice about who you believe and trust. Good luck.

[oneclickplus]

I've been vaccinated - it's the only way we'll get through this quickly.

Another statement that many people accept as fact but in no way proven. Used only to coerce those who refuse to follow the crowd.

[oneclickplus]

Unfortunately, people think it's political rather than scientific or medical. Kinda like we've seen in the past where a medicine cures but because it is praised by someone you don't like, you take the other side purely out of spite.

Oh - you mean like how the media and mainstream pooh pooh'd the use of Hydroxychloriquine after the word passed Trump's lips? Proven effective when used VERY early (link Zinc), it was rejected because of a topic we're not allowed to mention in this forum without getting our asses reamed. But, it's true. You could go google now and find all kinds of citations about how HCQ is not effective for COVID early on and that is all the result of Mr. Trump citing the claims of it working by medical professionals that were on the ground treating patients. When have you ever seen a drug that has been around for decades ... is still available ... is declared ineffective for a particular disease (COVID) ... and then banned for that purpose? I mean, aspirin won't cure leukemia but no one is banning its use for that. HCQ was banned (and many people died) so Trump wouldn't look good.

[Bill14564]

Some people posting here “believe the science.” In fact, the science frequently is inconclusive or directly opposed to other science, much like economists and climate control “geniuses.” You choose to believe you did the right thing by taking inoculations and falsely conclude that people who do not will die or are “wrong” not to take or are antivaxxers. In fact, many people want to consider their options before rolling with the masses. The death number of 2019 and 2020 are about 50,000 different (50,000 more deaths in 2020) not 500,000 different, indicating 500,000 MORE people did NOT DIE OF THE CHINESE VIRUS. The virus has been a useful political, control and money tool and continues to be so since big pharm is now coming out with a booster shot. Get in line.

And I'll ask again: Where in the world did you get those numbers? They are wrong!

The data show an increase of approximately 560,000 deaths in 2020. In each of 2017, 2018, and 2019 there were about 2.8M deaths. In 2020 there were 3.4M deaths. That is a difference of 600,000 NOT 50,000!

See the National Center for Healdh Statistics (NCHS) Mortality Surveillance chart at the bottom of this CDC page (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/).

Download the data (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2020-2021/data/NCHSData13.csv) and do your own math.

[oneclickplus]

And that's why we listen to the science, and that's the whole reason for the posts... too many people talk, too few actually research and read the facts.

When I post, I send the links and substantiation for the comments.

Well, let me augment the statement then:

Can't trust Big Pharma or the government or scientists drawing paychecks from either of them.

[Bill14564]

The statement above ... no matter who is making it ... is what I reject. It is stated as if it is fact but it is not. With a 99.97% chance of NOT DYING from COVID, I personally judge the risk of the shot (not a vaccine) to be higher than just waiting my turn to be exposed to the virus.

The shot (not a vaccine) does not prevent infection; it only (possibly) protects from getting sick after infection. Everyone, everywhere will be exposed / infected at some time, somewhere. I choose to trust my unaltered immune system. And it is my choice.

You get to make your choice about who you believe and trust. Good luck.

"I personally judge the risk ...."
AND
"You get to make your choice about who you believe and trust."

I will trust the work of scientists and researchers around the world based on studies and data analysis before I trust someone's personal judgment based on ....what? I was going to say misinformation and fear but you've provided absolutely nothing, not even links to debunked sources, to show what you base your assertions on.

[JustRita]

Why did the government feel it was necessary to absolve vaccine companies from legal ramifications?

[glsatterlee]

I agree? And why has 50% of the first responders decided not to be vaccinated. I have had the Covid already, and I have the antibodies in my blood to fight the Covid. I give blood, and they would like for me to give even more.

[tuccillo]

You are certainly entitled to express your opinions but if you come to a public forum with incorrect numbers you will be called out. Regarding the number of "excess deaths" from the start of the pandemic to now, the number is approximately 500K and reflects the increase in the number of deaths either directly or indirectly from COVID-19. Go to the CDC website and check their data. The number of deaths per year is a remarkably consistent number. "Excess deaths" is the increase in the number of deaths over what would be expected. It isn't impacted by how death is recorded on death certificates.

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19 (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm)

Some people posting here “believe the science.” In fact, the science frequently is inconclusive or directly opposed to other science, much like economists and climate control “geniuses.” You choose to believe you did the right thing by taking inoculations and falsely conclude that people who do not will die or are “wrong” not to take or are antivaxxers. In fact, many people want to consider their options before rolling with the masses. The death number of 2019 and 2020 are about 50,000 different (50,000 more deaths in 2020) not 500,000 different, indicating 500,000 MORE people did NOT DIE OF THE CHINESE VIRUS. The virus has been a useful political, control and money tool and continues to be so since big pharm is now coming out with a booster shot. Get in line.

[Bill14564]

Why did the government feel it was necessary to absolve vaccine companies from legal ramifications?

Probably because otherwise the companies would not have released the vaccines before many more years of studies. While we waited those years for the studies, tens of thousands more would have died.

[Larchap49]

Preclinical work on therapeutic mRNA goes back at least to 1990, 20 years ago...

Want to Know More About mRNA Before Your COVID Jab? | MedPage Today (https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/89998)

Never Been Done Before?

While an mRNA vaccine has never been on the market anywhere in the world, mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans before, for at least four infectious diseases: rabies, influenza, cytomegalovirus, and Zika.

mRNA can target tumor-associated antigens expressed mainly by cancerous cells, like certain growth factors. These vaccines have been tested in a range of cancers, including acute myeloid leukemia, multiple myeloma, glioblastoma, melanoma, prostate cancer, and others.

Why Did Earlier Vaccines Stall?

"A major factor is that there's not a sense of urgency," Dennis Burton, PhD, of Scripps Translational Research Clinic in La Jolla, California, told MedPage Today.

Zika has been relatively contained; rabies vaccines are already sufficiently effective; and influenza remains a difficult target, Burton said.

...based on the sheer number of people who will be vaccinated for COVID-19, events will occur, and most will likely be unrelated to the vaccine.

"One of the things we're most concerned about is that people won't get vaccinated," he said. "But the risks of this disease are going to be way higher than the risks associated with vaccination."

“Clinical trials for 75,000 people show it’s safe and it’s 95 percent effective,” Dr. Weissman said. “That’s pretty good data to convince people that it is OK.”
While mRNA is a new technology, experts have been working on it for years.

“It’s not just as though these technologies were just starting to be developed during the pandemic,” Dr. Moss said. “There has been a lot of preparatory work.”


This is part of The Associated Press’ ongoing effort to fact-check misinformation that is shared widely online, including work with Facebook to identify and reduce the circulation of false stories on the platform.

Pfizer and Moderna did not skip animal trials (https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-9792931264)

Fact check by the associated press or any other press seems these days to mean editing and deleting any information they don't want you to have. The word "they" refers to many entities filtering information and free speech. When did all the social media become the decider of what news is made available to the public? I for one am perfectable of deciding for myself what I believe or disbelieve, I don't need the press and social media owners doing that for me.

[tuccillo]

Because a small number of people will have a bad outcome from taking the vaccine. This is predictable. There would almost certainly be no negligence involved. Everything in life is a risk and there are tradeoffs. You step outside your front door and go for a walk, because exercise will improve your health, and you could be killed by a car. There are also risks associated with the coronavirus and the vaccine. If you are young and healthy, the probability of a bad outcome from being infected is very small. If you are over 65 with several health issues, the probability of a bad outcome from the coronavirus is much higher. The vaccines reduce your probability of serious disease and death to essentially zero. In exchange for this remarkable effectiveness, you accept that there is also a very small probability of the vaccine itself causing an issue. You, as well as everyone else, can make an informed decision. However, if you are a healthy person you need to ask yourself the following question: is the probability of a bad outcome from becoming infected higher than the probability of a bad outcome from taking the vaccine?

Why did the government feel it was necessary to absolve vaccine companies from legal ramifications?

[Tmarkwald]

Some people posting here “believe the science.” In fact, the science frequently is inconclusive or directly opposed to other science, much like economists and climate control “geniuses.” You choose to believe you did the right thing by taking inoculations and falsely conclude that people who do not will die or are “wrong” not to take or are antivaxxers. In fact, many people want to consider their options before rolling with the masses. The death number of 2019 and 2020 are about 50,000 different (50,000 more deaths in 2020) not 500,000 different, indicating 500,000 MORE people did NOT DIE OF THE CHINESE VIRUS. The virus has been a useful political, control and money tool and continues to be so since big pharm is now coming out with a booster shot. Get in line.

I'm a conservative, but you are drinking WAY too much of the kool-aid

[irishwonone]

Oh, oh. So glad we have so many experts at the Villages.

[Larchap49]

And I'll ask again: Where in the world did you get those numbers? They are wrong!

The data show an increase of approximately 560,000 deaths in 2020. In each of 2017, 2018, and 2019 there were about 2.8M deaths. In 2020 there were 3.4M deaths. That is a difference of 600,000 NOT 50,000!

See the National Center for Healdh Statistics (NCHS) Mortality Surveillance chart at the bottom of this CDC page (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/).

Download the data (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2020-2021/data/NCHSData13.csv) and do your own math.

The trouble is I don't believe the numbers because almost everybody that died in 2020 was blamed on covid. The news has been full of families that had to take legal action on cause of death to collect insurance. Hospitals are rewarded monetarily for covid deaths but not any other cause. In my opinion and it's only my opinion I would bet only 50 to 60 percent were strictly from covid (I think that is being generous) the rest had serious other health issues or were so old that any minor illness would have killed them, or both. Just my opinion and as an American who hasn't had my free speech taken away yet I choose to express it.

[coffeebean]

The statement above ... no matter who is making it ... is what I reject. It is stated as if it is fact but it is not. With a 99.97% chance of NOT DYING from COVID, I personally judge the risk of the shot (not a vaccine) to be higher than just waiting my turn to be exposed to the virus.

The shot (not a vaccine) does not prevent infection; it only (possibly) protects from getting sick after infection. Everyone, everywhere will be exposed / infected at some time, somewhere. I choose to trust my unaltered immune system. And it is my choice.

You get to make your choice about who you believe and trust. Good luck.

You are completely off base when you refer to the mRNA vaccines as "not a vaccine". Get a clue.....

Definition of vaccine. Please take note of defintion B.
Vaccine | Definition of Vaccine by Merriam-Webster (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine)

[Bill14564]

The trouble is I don't believe the numbers because almost everybody that died in 2020 was blamed on covid. The news has been full of families that had to take legal action on cause of death to collect insurance. Hospitals are rewarded monetarily for covid deaths but not any other cause. In my opinion and it's only my opinion I would bet only 50 to 60 percent were strictly from covid (I think that is being generous) the rest had serious other health issues or were so old that any minor illness would have killed them, or both. Just my opinion and as an American who hasn't had my free speech taken away yet I choose to express it.

Free speech is fine though I expect you believe the first amendment goes farther than it actually does.

Ignorance, especially willful ignorance, is a shame. You can choose to believe the conspiracy theories about Covid as a cause of death and you can probably find an example or three where a mistake was made. However, whether they were properly categorized or not, there were over 500,000 more people that died in 2020 than in any of the previous three years.

They may or may not have been "true" Covid deaths but there were still 500,000 additional deaths. Absent any other explanation for the increase, and given that there was only one uncommon health crisis in 2020, the vast majority of those 500,000 must have been due to Covid.

A thought on "true" Covid deaths:
The question to be asked is, "Would the deaths have occurred last year if the individual had not contracted Covid?" People die of pneumonia, heart disease, and other pulmonary diseases every year. In each of the three years prior to 2020, about 2.8M people died in the US from various causes including pneumonia, heart disease, and other pulmonary diseases. In 2020, 3.4M people died of various causes. Would there have been an additional 600,000 deaths if there was no Covid? The three-year trend says there would not have been.

Whether the deaths were Covid-only or they were Covid-induced they were still due to Covid. A vaccine that would prevent a person from contracting Covid would prevent both Covid-only deaths and Covid-induced deaths and would have saved most of the 556,000 additional deaths that have occurred.

[tvbound]

The sad part is, that if one certain person were to publicly say "I received the Covid vaccine and you should too," there would be millions of current anti-vaxxers - who would instantly do a 180.

[Tmarkwald]

The sad part is, that if one certain person were to publicly say "I received the Covid vaccine and you should too," there would be millions of current anti-vaxxers - who would instantly do a 180.

There are lots of sheep, blindly following along.

Don't understand why people refuse to do their own research, and would rather wait until some poor misguided soul says exactly what they want to hear, truth or not....

[Ptmckiou]

Two choices:

1. Possibly contract a deadly disease, or live with the possibility of life long organ damage from the disease, or be an unknown carrier and give it to others which are then harmed and perpetuating the chance of more variants being created, or...
2. Get vaccinated and help eliminate the food for the virus (unvaccinated people) with zero chance of getting sick enough to land in the hospital, and little chance of being able to be a carrier...

Seems like a no brainer on the choice. I’ll take the chance and go with science any day!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Well, let me augment the statement then:

Can't trust Big Pharma or the government or scientists drawing paychecks from either of them.

People who work for supplement manufacturers, alt-med devices, the Silva-Sol folks, and "positive thought healing" practitioners, also draw paychecks. And they don't even need valid, useful, products, and they don't have to prove they actually DO anything. Alt-med is a thriving, hugely profit-making category that has NO science, NO proof, NO testing, NO evidence, and people line up with cash in hand to pay for it.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'll toss another wrench in the "the deaths weren't covid" propaganda:

MOST covid-related deaths, were the result of the pneumonia that is caused by the virus. So MOST of these people died from complications of pneumonia. The virus itself didn't directly cause their death. It DID, however, directly cause the pneumonia, which in turn caused the death.

Anyone who already had a lung illness, EVEN IF THEY WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE LIVED ANOTHER 20 YEARS - was at super-high risk of death and - many of those people did die, once they caught the pneumonia that Covid helped create in their lungs.

The same goes for heart illnesses. Diseased hearts, diseased arteries, which - with medication, nutritional support and appropriate excercise/physical therapy, could delay death for decades, were suddenly stopped - due to the pneumonia caused by the Covid.

So no - Covid was definitely NOT the direct cause of many (maybe even most) of these deaths. But it was the direct cause of the pneumonia that rendered the body incapable of continuing to live.

[kcwhel]

Believe and do what you will. When enough vaccine has been made available so that all who want to be vaccinated have done so. Then stop all the pandemic panic and open things up completely with no masks, distancing and the other preventive measures and let Darwin's law prevail. Hospitals will not be overloaded and the data will supports the facts as they unfold.

[roscoguy]

...With a 99.97% chance of NOT DYING from COVID, I personally judge the risk of the shot (not a vaccine) to be higher than just waiting my turn to be exposed to the virus.

Where did this figure come from? According to the CDC Covid Data Tracker (CDC COVID Data Tracker (https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100klast7days)) and covidusa.net (United States COVID-19 Statistics: 31,085,251 Cases / 561,074 Deaths / 363,825,123 Tests / Avg cases/day 68,121 declined 25.1% from 14 days ago Avg deaths/day 2,034 declined 17.22% from 14 days ago (Updated Apr 10, 2021 @ 11:10am) (https://covidusa.net/)), there have been about 31,000,000 total Covid cases in the U.S. and around 560,000 related deaths. I'm not a math major but that seems to translate to approximately 1.8% NOT .03%. Also, that rate is only those who have actually died after contracting Covid, it doesn't say anything about the number who spent weeks or even months in the hospital on ventilators, needed lung transplants or suffered other long-term ailments or side-effects from the infection.

[jimjamuser]

Some people posting here “believe the science.” In fact, the science frequently is inconclusive or directly opposed to other science, much like economists and climate control “geniuses.” You choose to believe you did the right thing by taking inoculations and falsely conclude that people who do not will die or are “wrong” not to take or are antivaxxers. In fact, many people want to consider their options before rolling with the masses. The death number of 2019 and 2020 are about 50,000 different (50,000 more deaths in 2020) not 500,000 different, indicating 500,000 MORE people did NOT DIE OF THE CHINESE VIRUS. The virus has been a useful political, control and money tool and continues to be so since big pharm is now coming out with a booster shot. Get in line.
99% of America believes that CV deaths number 560,531 deaths, as of today. I don't see the point of anyone disputing that? What do they expect to gain? When someone's opinion is so much out of step, maybe, just maybe, they should re-think their ideas. Just trying to help.

[Tmarkwald]

I'll toss another wrench in the "the deaths weren't covid" propaganda:

MOST covid-related deaths, were the result of the pneumonia that is caused by the virus. So MOST of these people died from complications of pneumonia. The virus itself didn't directly cause their death. It DID, however, directly cause the pneumonia, which in turn caused the death.

Anyone who already had a lung illness, EVEN IF THEY WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE LIVED ANOTHER 20 YEARS - was at super-high risk of death and - many of those people did die, once they caught the pneumonia that Covid helped create in their lungs.

The same goes for heart illnesses. Diseased hearts, diseased arteries, which - with medication, nutritional support and appropriate excercise/physical therapy, could delay death for decades, were suddenly stopped - due to the pneumonia caused by the Covid.

So no - Covid was definitely NOT the direct cause of many (maybe even most) of these deaths. But it was the direct cause of the pneumonia that rendered the body incapable of continuing to live.

Yep, I would agree with that - similar in some ways to AIDS - it's the weakened immune system that can no longer fight off the infection.

[tuccillo]

It doesn’t matter what is on the death certificates. There were 500K additional deaths, over what would normally be expected, in the last year. Either directly or indirectly, they were caused by the coronavirus. I expect that we will see a decrease in deaths for the next few years as the coronavirus killed off a bunch of people before their time.

The trouble is I don't believe the numbers because almost everybody that died in 2020 was blamed on covid. The news has been full of families that had to take legal action on cause of death to collect insurance. Hospitals are rewarded monetarily for covid deaths but not any other cause. In my opinion and it's only my opinion I would bet only 50 to 60 percent were strictly from covid (I think that is being generous) the rest had serious other health issues or were so old that any minor illness would have killed them, or both. Just my opinion and as an American who hasn't had my free speech taken away yet I choose to express it.

[jimjamuser]

Another statement that many people accept as fact but in no way proven. Used only to coerce those who refuse to follow the crowd.
Time will prove which group made the correct choice the anti-vaxxers or those that got their shots. Until then society hangs on a delicate balance. Michigan is one giant hotspot. The medical experts around the country are WORRIED. If there are too many anti-vaxxers, then the US will NEVER reach herd immunity and CV cases will NEVER fall to zero. Right now around 50% of the people in Mississippi say that they will NOT get vaccinated. What happens under that scenario? New CV variants every 6 months and booster shots for life. And society going around wearing masks for the next 20 years? And what if like France and Europe - the US must go back to lockdowns? What if the economy of the US falls apart. Then China and Russia will keep getting more aggressive internationally. All of that because a small group of anti-vaxxers wanted to express their "rugged spirit" and individuality - and they said screw society and "who needs government"?

[jimjamuser]

Oh - you mean like how the media and mainstream pooh pooh'd the use of Hydroxychloriquine after the word passed Trump's lips? Proven effective when used VERY early (link Zinc), it was rejected because of a topic we're not allowed to mention in this forum without getting our asses reamed. But, it's true. You could go google now and find all kinds of citations about how HCQ is not effective for COVID early on and that is all the result of Mr. Trump citing the claims of it working by medical professionals that were on the ground treating patients. When have you ever seen a drug that has been around for decades ... is still available ... is declared ineffective for a particular disease (COVID) ... and then banned for that purpose? I mean, aspirin won't cure leukemia but no one is banning its use for that. HCQ was banned (and many people died) so Trump wouldn't look good.
Both the former President and Gov. DeSantis have taken the CV vaccines.

[Pat2015]

Studies and clinical trials on RNA vaccines for other viruses – and even cancers – have been going on for a decade.

Nobody getting the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine is a test subject of any kind. These are not experimental vaccines in any way. And they do not modify your dna.

Three ways RNA is being used in the next generation of medical treatment (https://theconversation.com/three-ways-rna-is-being-used-in-the-next-generation-of-medical-treatment-158190)
Disagree, as we are part of a clinical study with getting vaccines that have not been FDA approved and the studies are continuing on with data being obtained on all of us as to the efficiency of the vaccines, potential of reinfection, side effects, and ability to transmit the virus.

[coffeebean]

The sad part is, that if one certain person were to publicly say "I received the Covid vaccine and you should too," there would be millions of current anti-vaxxers - who would instantly do a 180.

Trump was interviewed by Maria Bartiromo and (I heard it myself) he confirmed that he and Melania were both vaccinated. They just did not do it publicly which is an absolute shame. I cannot express my disappointment in both of them enough for being vaccinated secretly. That was a bad decision on his part not to have the cameras capture the vaccination event. Same goes for our governor. I'm very disappointed in him too.

[Boffin]

Not learning much the subject: mRNA. Too much discussion about other vaccine related subjects.

[Boffin]

This thread is titled: The real truth about messenger RNA. As opposed to what, The fictitious truth about messenger RNA?

[Bill14564]

This thread is titled: The real truth about messenger RNA. As opposed to what, The fictitious truth about messenger RNA?

Yes, as opposed to the fiction that some are attempting to spread.

[Swoop]

Free speech is fine though I expect you believe the first amendment goes farther than it actually does.

Ignorance, especially willful ignorance, is a shame. You can choose to believe the conspiracy theories about Covid as a cause of death and you can probably find an example or three where a mistake was made. However, whether they were properly categorized or not, there were over 500,000 more people that died in 2020 than in any of the previous three years.

They may or may not have been "true" Covid deaths but there were still 500,000 additional deaths. Absent any other explanation for the increase, and given that there was only one uncommon health crisis in 2020, the vast majority of those 500,000 must have been due to Covid.

A thought on "true" Covid deaths:
The question to be asked is, "Would the deaths have occurred last year if the individual had not contracted Covid?" People die of pneumonia, heart disease, and other pulmonary diseases every year. In each of the three years prior to 2020, about 2.8M people died in the US from various causes including pneumonia, heart disease, and other pulmonary diseases. In 2020, 3.4M people died of various causes. Would there have been an additional 600,000 deaths if there was no Covid? The three-year trend says there would not have been.

Whether the deaths were Covid-only or they were Covid-induced they were still due to Covid. A vaccine that would prevent a person from contracting Covid would prevent both Covid-only deaths and Covid-induced deaths and would have saved most of the 556,000 additional deaths that have occurred.

The CDC lags two years behind when reporting the actual deaths in the USA. They have not even released the 2019 numbers yet...
Nice try...

[Bill14564]

The CDC lags two years behind when reporting the actual deaths in the USA. They have not even released the 2019 numbers yet...
Nice try...

Please refer to the links in post #30 (and quoted in post #41). Note the large CDC logo at the top next to the words "Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."

Is it really too much to ask that you click on the links I took the time to post before you try to accuse me of making things up???

[MaxCat]

Trusting Big Pharma is like trusting the government

Can’t believe either one of them


So does that mean you will soon be going off your meds for blood pressure / diabetes / heart disease / high cholesterol / hyperthyroidism / heartburn medications soon?
Yeah, didn't think so.

[MaxCat]

The statement above ... no matter who is making it ... is what I reject. It is stated as if it is fact but it is not. With a 99.97% chance of NOT DYING from COVID, I personally judge the risk of the shot (not a vaccine) to be higher than just waiting my turn to be exposed to the virus.

The shot (not a vaccine) does not prevent infection; it only (possibly) protects from getting sick after infection. Everyone, everywhere will be exposed / infected at some time, somewhere. I choose to trust my unaltered immune system. And it is my choice.

You get to make your choice about who you believe and trust. Good luck.


And definitely your right to believe / not believe or take your chances / not take your chances with the phenomena of thinning the herd. Good luck.

[Swoop]

Please refer to the links in post #30 (and quoted in post #41). Note the large CDC logo at the top next to the words "Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."

Is it really too much to ask that you click on the links I took the time to post before you try to accuse me of making things up???

That link to the CDC shows the deaths that are caused by influenza. The chart shows a large increase based on Covid coded deaths. The CDC has NOT reported the total deaths, or the death rate in the US, in 2019 or 2020 yet...

[sloanst]

Damn, I was so hoping to be the next Spiderman, the Flash or the Human Torch. Oh well. One can dream. Maybe I will gain an extra 5 yards with my driver. LOL

[Bill14564]

That link to the CDC shows the deaths that are caused by influenza. The chart shows a large increase based on Covid coded deaths. The CDC has NOT reported the total deaths, or the death rate in the US, in 2019 or 2020 yet...

Get back to me after you actually look at the graph and especially the data in the spreadsheet. Work to understand the difference between All Deaths (column G) and Pneumonia, Influenza or COVID-19 Deaths (PIC) (column K).

[pittta]

Moderna chief medical officer who I supposed knows better than you has a different opinion
Pls read his opinion here

Bombshell: Moderna Chief Medical Officer Admits mRNA Alters DNA - The Washington Standard (https://thewashingtonstandard.com/bombshell-moderna-chief-medical-officer-admits-mrna-alters-dna/)


Studies and clinical trials on RNA vaccines for other viruses – and even cancers – have been going on for a decade.

Nobody getting the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine is a test subject of any kind. These are not experimental vaccines in any way. And they do not modify your dna.

Three ways RNA is being used in the next generation of medical treatment (https://theconversation.com/three-ways-rna-is-being-used-in-the-next-generation-of-medical-treatment-158190)

[pittta]

Could mRNA Vaccines Permanently Alter DNA? Recent Science Suggests They Might. • Children's Health Defense (https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/science-mrna-vaccines-alter-dna/)



Studies and clinical trials on RNA vaccines for other viruses – and even cancers – have been going on for a decade.

Nobody getting the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine is a test subject of any kind. These are not experimental vaccines in any way. And they do not modify your dna.

Three ways RNA is being used in the next generation of medical treatment (https://theconversation.com/three-ways-rna-is-being-used-in-the-next-generation-of-medical-treatment-158190)

[Bill14564]

Moderna chief medical officer who I supposed knows better than you has a different opinion
Pls read his opinion here

Bombshell: Moderna Chief Medical Officer Admits mRNA Alters DNA - The Washington Standard (https://thewashingtonstandard.com/bombshell-moderna-chief-medical-officer-admits-mrna-alters-dna/)

fact-check-modernas-chief-medical-officer-did-not-say-mrna-vaccines-alter-dna (https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-moderna-mrna/fact-check-modernas-chief-medical-officer-did-not-say-mrna-vaccines-alter-dna-idUSL1N2M10IV)

[Swoop]

Get back to me after you actually look at the graph and especially the data in the spreadsheet. Work to understand the difference between All Deaths (column G) and Pneumonia, Influenza or COVID-19 Deaths (PIC) (column K).
From the CDC’s website: “CDC’s National Vital Statistics System (NVSS) collects and reports annual mortality statistics using data from U.S. death certificates. Because of the time needed to investigate certain causes of death and to process and review data, final annual mortality data for a given year are typically released 11 months after the end of the calendar year.”
The numbers for 2020 are estimated...

[rmd2]

They both were vaccinated in secret. They are like two peas in a pod.

This would be opposed to the many senators and congress persons who got the vaccine early and in front of cameras. They wanted to make sure everyone saw them get it and would believe it to be safe. They did this for altruistic reasons only, not because they wanted to be first in line for the vaccine. /s

[tvbound]

fact-check-modernas-chief-medical-officer-did-not-say-mrna-vaccines-alter-dna (https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-moderna-mrna/fact-check-modernas-chief-medical-officer-did-not-say-mrna-vaccines-alter-dna-idUSL1N2M10IV)

Thanks, you beat me to it, as reading the link it's easy to see what Zaks actually said and was then purposely misconstrued by that source's writer. Speaking of which, the source of the other link is also strongly biased to one viewpoint and is primarily based on one Dr's opinion. This one.

Doug Corrigan pushing bad science and anti-vax tropes about mRNA vaccines (https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/doug-corrigan-pushing-bad-science-and-anti-vax-tropes-about-mrna-vaccines/)

[BiPartisan]

I thought the focus of this post was the definitive fact that the mRNA used in COVID vaccines does not modify DNA.

Please reply with the post that mentioned DNA

[coffeebean]

This would be opposed to the many senators and congress persons who got the vaccine early and in front of cameras. They wanted to make sure everyone saw them get it and would believe it to be safe. They did this for altruistic reasons only, not because they wanted to be first in line for the vaccine. /s

Thank you. Someone who understands the ramifications of secretive vaccinations. The good these two men COULD have done is limitless.

[Larchap49]

Get back to me after you actually look at the graph and especially the data in the spreadsheet. Work to understand the difference between All Deaths (column G) and Pneumonia, Influenza or COVID-19 Deaths (PIC) (column K).
Big Pharma

[Larchap49]

Speaking about Big Pharma, isn't covid a souped up cold virus and hasn't big Pharma said for decades there is no cure for the common cold? I would like to know them how suddenly in less than a year they have developed not one but three vaccines that prevent covid? Has anyone who's had the vaccine gotten a cold since being vaccinated? I would be interested in that stat.

[Tmarkwald]

Moderna chief medical officer who I supposed knows better than you has a different opinion
Pls read his opinion here

Bombshell: Moderna Chief Medical Officer Admits mRNA Alters DNA - The Washington Standard (https://thewashingtonstandard.com/bombshell-moderna-chief-medical-officer-admits-mrna-alters-dna/)

Fact check shows that is fake.

[Tmarkwald]

Speaking about Big Pharma, isn't covid a souped up cold virus and hasn't big Pharma said for decades there is no cure for the common cold? I would like to know them how suddenly in less than a year they have developed not one but three vaccines that prevent covid? Has anyone who's had the vaccine gotten a cold since being vaccinated? I would be interested in that stat.

Well, I've never heard covid being referred to as a souped up cold virus... that's a first

[Tmarkwald]

rather than repost again and again, here is the thread....

[Tmarkwald]

rather than repost again and again, here is the thread....
rather than repost again and again, here is the thread....

[Becca9800]

[I][B]

Nobody getting the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine is a test subject of any kind. These are not experimental vaccines in any way.

None of the vaccines currently available are approved for full use, ALL are Emergency Use only. Sooo... studies and trials.....still no APPROVED vaccines w same technology for c19 are on the market, right?

[coffeebean]

None of the vaccines currently available are approved for full use, ALL are Emergency Use only. Sooo... studies and trials.....still no APPROVED vaccines w same technology for c19 are on the market, right?

Pfizer has applied for full FDA approval and Moderna will be applying later this month. Full FDA approval for mRNA vaccines is coming. You will need a new concern to voice.

Covid vaccines: What full FDA approval means for you (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/18/covid-vaccines-what-full-fda-approval-means-for-you.html)

[Becca9800]

Pfizer has applied for full FDA approval and Moderna will be applying later this month. Full FDA approval for mRNA vaccines is coming. You will need a new concern to voice.

Covid vaccines: What full FDA approval means for you (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/18/covid-vaccines-what-full-fda-approval-means-for-you.html)

How will the FDA justify full approval though? I mean, on average it takes 5 - 10 years to get a vaccine approved, but they'll approve this one in a year? Even before any short-term effects are truly known. Will the FDA do that to Americans? Either way, there currently are no fully-approved c19 vaxs on the market, correct? AND that was the point of my post, pointing out that what was said was terribly inaccurate, all the c19 vaxs ARE experimental.

[bobdeb]

Someone very close and dear to me doesn't take a single medication. Is thankfully healthy and alert and abounds with energy. This is a senior woman who won't take even an aspirin or any pill for an ache or pain. NOTHING!

Guess what? She's run more marathons (many with me) than you can count on your fingers and toes. She still works full time and is the most giving person imaginable.

So guess what on covid vaccines?

Yes, I have been vaccinated. My choice, but I'm not into control as some of you seem. I respect individuals who may wish to determine for themselves when and if the time is right for them.

[bobdeb]

And I would add, she has never had the flu, or even received the flu shot.

[Gulfcoast]

The way I look at it, some folks were the "guinea pigs" who were going to their service industry jobs when Covid was at the scariest. They did their part and are, for the most part, no worse for the wear. Now it's time for them to sit back (if that is what they prefer) and let others volunteer to be the "guinea pigs" for this vaccine. So far, most people are no worse for the wear from getting the vaccine.

[Boffin]

People who think the mRNA used in the COVID vaccine is capable of altering their DNA are candidates for that vaccine. (They need their DNA altered.)

[tvbound]

People who think the mRNA used in the COVID vaccine is capable of altering their DNA are candidates for that vaccine. (They need their DNA altered.)

If only there were a vaccine for those who ignore science, facts and truth and are guided basically by - "I believe what I believe."

[jimjamuser]

Trusting Big Pharma is like trusting the government

Can’t believe either one of them
Big Pharma is not trustworthy because the US does NOT have Universal Health Care, which we would have if government was not controlled by Insurance Company lobbyists. The V.A. acts like a Universal Health Care system and they place some pressure on Big Pharma to NOT gouge the public. And they keep drug prices low for veterans. That IS a government system that works.

[jimjamuser]

I had my 2 vaccines but I truly believe that it's longitudinal studies over 10, 20 or 30 yrs that tell the true story of what vaccines or environmental factors really do to our bodies.
The reward / risk for getting the vaccine was greater than taking a chance on getting CV. CV has documented "long haul" problems. The vaccines do not.

[Happinow]

Preclinical work on therapeutic mRNA goes back at least to 1990, 20 years ago...

Want to Know More About mRNA Before Your COVID Jab? | MedPage Today (https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/89998)

Never Been Done Before?

While an mRNA vaccine has never been on the market anywhere in the world, mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans before, for at least four infectious diseases: rabies, influenza, cytomegalovirus, and Zika.

mRNA can target tumor-associated antigens expressed mainly by cancerous cells, like certain growth factors. These vaccines have been tested in a range of cancers, including acute myeloid leukemia, multiple myeloma, glioblastoma, melanoma, prostate cancer, and others.

Why Did Earlier Vaccines Stall?

"A major factor is that there's not a sense of urgency," Dennis Burton, PhD, of Scripps Translational Research Clinic in La Jolla, California, told MedPage Today.

Zika has been relatively contained; rabies vaccines are already sufficiently effective; and influenza remains a difficult target, Burton said.

...based on the sheer number of people who will be vaccinated for COVID-19, events will occur, and most will likely be unrelated to the vaccine.

"One of the things we're most concerned about is that people won't get vaccinated," he said. "But the risks of this disease are going to be way higher than the risks associated with vaccination."

“Clinical trials for 75,000 people show it’s safe and it’s 95 percent effective,” Dr. Weissman said. “That’s pretty good data to convince people that it is OK.”
While mRNA is a new technology, experts have been working on it for years.

“It’s not just as though these technologies were just starting to be developed during the pandemic,” Dr. Moss said. “There has been a lot of preparatory work.”


This is part of The Associated Press’ ongoing effort to fact-check misinformation that is shared widely online, including work with Facebook to identify and reduce the circulation of false stories on the platform.

Pfizer and Moderna did not skip animal trials (https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-9792931264)

What they didn’t tell you was the trial on animals failed miserably. The animals died. They wouldn’t publish this info. Ya gotta do some digging to find out the truth.

[jimjamuser]

The statement above ... no matter who is making it ... is what I reject. It is stated as if it is fact but it is not. With a 99.97% chance of NOT DYING from COVID, I personally judge the risk of the shot (not a vaccine) to be higher than just waiting my turn to be exposed to the virus.

The shot (not a vaccine) does not prevent infection; it only (possibly) protects from getting sick after infection. Everyone, everywhere will be exposed / infected at some time, somewhere. I choose to trust my unaltered immune system. And it is my choice.

You get to make your choice about who you believe and trust. Good luck.
I don't trust the zinc advocates.

[jimjamuser]

I agree? And why has 50% of the first responders decided not to be vaccinated. I have had the Covid already, and I have the antibodies in my blood to fight the Covid. I give blood, and they would like for me to give even more.
50% of ALL the people in the US have NOT been vaccinated. Police and Fireman are traditionally conservative, so they would be EXPECTED to have a low vaccination rate.

[jimjamuser]

The trouble is I don't believe the numbers because almost everybody that died in 2020 was blamed on covid. The news has been full of families that had to take legal action on cause of death to collect insurance. Hospitals are rewarded monetarily for covid deaths but not any other cause. In my opinion and it's only my opinion I would bet only 50 to 60 percent were strictly from covid (I think that is being generous) the rest had serious other health issues or were so old that any minor illness would have killed them, or both. Just my opinion and as an American who hasn't had my free speech taken away yet I choose to express it.
Many people believe that CV deaths were UNDERCOUNTED!

[jimjamuser]

Trump was interviewed by Maria Bartiromo and (I heard it myself) he confirmed that he and Melania were both vaccinated. They just did not do it publicly which is an absolute shame. I cannot express my disappointment in both of them enough for being vaccinated secretly. That was a bad decision on his part not to have the cameras capture the vaccination event. Same goes for our governor. I'm very disappointed in him too.
I expected that to happen. (backroom deals and a lack of transparency) - a perfect example of a lack of patriotism. "these are the times that try men's (and women's) SOUL. I predict that Democracy itself is in DANGER!

[jimjamuser]

Moderna chief medical officer who I supposed knows better than you has a different opinion
Pls read his opinion here

Bombshell: Moderna Chief Medical Officer Admits mRNA Alters DNA - The Washington Standard (https://thewashingtonstandard.com/bombshell-moderna-chief-medical-officer-admits-mrna-alters-dna/)
That is one weird link to a strange newspaper.

[jimjamuser]

Speaking about Big Pharma, isn't covid a souped up cold virus and hasn't big Pharma said for decades there is no cure for the common cold? I would like to know them how suddenly in less than a year they have developed not one but three vaccines that prevent covid? Has anyone who's had the vaccine gotten a cold since being vaccinated? I would be interested in that stat.
Very confused!

[jimjamuser]

What they didn’t tell you was the trial on animals failed miserably. The animals died. They wouldn’t publish this info. Ya gotta do some digging to find out the truth.
That IS difficult to believe.

[drducat]

That IS difficult to believe.

None of what the original topic of this post is very accurate....Human trials for RNA VaX? Don't think so..not on this planet.

All of the Media have tried to make this well respected scientist..(more so than Fauci the hack) into some kind of kook.....Got news for you all...he is spot on and is the ex Vice President of Pfizer and went of and created his own biotech firm......I have not trusted the media and the phony fact checkers for a long time now...it all spin...Take a look at the real facts and not positive conspiracy theories. Dr Michael Yeadon - An Urgent Warning To The World (https://www.bitchute.com/video/dlMoxix4tx7t/)

This is a must see!!

[bobdeb]

If someone is STILL calling it the "Chinese Virus", they are probably devouring propaganda and ignoring logic and medical science.

I'm not following this. The first known identification of the coronavirus was in Wuhan, China. Initially believed a lab leak but perhaps more likely from some wild animal farm in China.

Didn't the 80s Russian Flu initiate in Russia? Not sure. But we know where the coronavirus originated.

Not to worry cause as sure as white on rice the Chinese will have a better, cheaper vaccine for what they created. Not a bad business.

Gotta love Beijing, right?

[Swoop]

The reward / risk for getting the vaccine was greater than taking a chance on getting CV. CV has documented "long haul" problems. The vaccines do not.

According to the CDC people who have had “long haul” Covid issues typically fall into the high risk category.
If you aren’t in the high risk group, your chances of dying of Covid, or having “long haul” issues is extremely low.
What is completely unknown, is what potential long term side effects from the mRNA vaccines are. There is no historical data to refer to. But, we will know a few years from now, when they review the results of the largest vaccine trial in history...

[coffeebean]

How will the FDA justify full approval though? I mean, on average it takes 5 - 10 years to get a vaccine approved, but they'll approve this one in a year? Even before any short-term effects are truly known. Will the FDA do that to Americans? Either way, there currently are no fully-approved c19 vaxs on the market, correct? AND that was the point of my post, pointing out that what was said was terribly inaccurate, all the c19 vaxs ARE experimental.

I see your point. This just may be the most massive experiment ever conducted. Millions of people have had these mRNA vaccines in arms. That just may be the reason why the FDA will give full approval. It is a waiting game.

[coffeebean]

What they didn’t tell you was the trial on animals failed miserably. The animals died. They wouldn’t publish this info. Ya gotta do some digging to find out the truth.
Many thanks to those animals who died. They provided the ground work for the vaccine development and allowed the scientists to develop a very safe vaccine for humans. That is what experimental animals are for.

[stanley]

They provided the ground work for the vaccine development and allowed the scientists to develop a very safe vaccine for humans.

You don't know that yet! Nobody knows that yet!

[coffeebean]

None of what the original topic of this post is very accurate....Human trials for RNA VaX? Don't think so..not on this planet.

All of the Media have tried to make this well respected scientist..(more so than Fauci the hack) into some kind of kook.....Got news for you all...he is spot on and is the ex Vice President of Pfizer and went of and created his own biotech firm......I have not trusted the media and the phony fact checkers for a long time now...it all spin...Take a look at the real facts and not positive conspiracy theories. Dr Michael Yeadon - An Urgent Warning To The World (https://www.bitchute.com/video/dlMoxix4tx7t/)

This is a must see!!

This is NOT a must see. Dr. Michael Yeadon is not credible. Read all about him here....
The ex-Pfizer scientist who became an anti-vax hero. (https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-vaccines-skeptic/)

[stanley]

This is NOT a must see. Dr. Michael Yeadon is not credible. Read all about him here....
The ex-Pfizer scientist who became an anti-vax hero. (https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-vaccines-skeptic/)

It is a must see..........let people decide for themselves

[coffeebean]

You don't know that yet! Nobody knows that yet!

We have been told repeatedly by experts the mRNA vaccines are safe. I believe them. The Pfizer mRNA vaccine has emergency authorization for children and Moderna is not far behind for their EA. I believe these vaccines are safe otherwise how could they have been approved for children? They are testing infants for these vaccines. Yes, I believe the experts and scientists that these mRNA vaccines are safe. They certainly know more than I do and they have assured us all these vaccines are safe.

[coffeebean]

It is a must see..........let people decide for themselves

Even Dr. Yeadon's ex-colleagues said they "do not recognize him anymore". He is NOT credible. I could use other stronger verbiage but I will refrain.

[stanley]

We have been told repeatedly by experts the mRNA vaccines are safe. I believe them. The Pfizer mRNA vaccine has emergency authorization for children and Moderna is not far behind for their EA. I believe these vaccines are safe otherwise how could they have been approved for children? They are testing infants for these vaccines. Yes, I believe the experts and scientists that these mRNA vaccines are safe. They certainly know more than I do and they have assured us all these vaccines are safe.

You "believe" and you "trust"......good for you......there are a lot of "us" that don't.

[stanley]

Even Dr. Yeadon's ex-colleagues said they "do not recognize him anymore". He is NOT credible. I could use other stronger verbiage but I will refrain.

"They" always eat their own......

[coffeebean]

You "believe" and you "trust"......good for you......there are a lot of "us" that don't.

Conspiracy theorists don't believe the scientists and experts either so there is that.

[Swoop]

We have been told repeatedly by experts the mRNA vaccines are safe. I believe them. The Pfizer mRNA vaccine has emergency authorization for children and Moderna is not far behind for their EA. I believe these vaccines are safe otherwise how could they have been approved for children? They are testing infants for these vaccines. Yes, I believe the experts and scientists that these mRNA vaccines are safe. They certainly know more than I do and they have assured us all these vaccines are safe.

Unless they have the ability to see into the future, they absolutely don’t “know” that the mRNA vaccines are safe long term. They certainly appear to be safe short term. It’s the long term unknown that I have an issue with. These are the first mRNA vaccines approved for use in humans. There have been NO studies of the long term safety of these vaccines...

[Bill14564]

What they didn’t tell you was the trial on animals failed miserably. The animals died. They wouldn’t publish this info. Ya gotta do some digging to find out the truth.

Isn't this almost the definition of confirmation bias, keep digging until you find "the truth" that backs up your beliefs?

[LiverpoolWalrus]

What they didn’t tell you was the trial on animals failed miserably. The animals died. They wouldn’t publish this info. Ya gotta do some digging to find out the truth.

I did some digging to find the truth.

Covid-19 vaccine did not kill every animal it was tested on - Full Fact (https://fullfact.org/online/covid-vaccine-animal-testing/)

[coffeebean]

Unless they have the ability to see into the future, they absolutely don’t “know” that the mRNA vaccines are safe long term. They certainly appear to be safe short term. It’s the long term unknown that I have an issue with. These are the first mRNA vaccines approved for use in humans. There have been NO studies of the long term safety of these vaccines...

I certainly understand what you are saying. I have read plenty about how these mRNA vaccines work. That fact that the messenger is excreted by the body very rapidly and leaves no lasting evidence of its existence in the body is why I feel there is no reason to fear the safety of these vaccines in the future. If the damage was going to be done it would be done early on, not years or even months from now.

Given the fact that the messenger is excreted shortly after it has done its job, the rest is my opinion and it is what I have to feel safe with this mRNA vaccine for the future. My money is on the scientists and pharm developers that there is no possibility of issues in the future. I also feel comfort in knowing these vaccines have been developed with modern state of the art technology which was put to use on a vaccine that had its beginning stages of development 30 years ago.

[stanley]

Conspiracy theorists don't believe the scientists and experts either so there is that.

Just because "someone" calls it a "conspiracy" doesn't mean it's not true.

[Swoop]

I certainly understand what you are saying. I have read plenty about how these mRNA vaccines work. That fact that the messenger is excreted by the body very rapidly and leaves no lasting evidence of its existence in the body is why I feel there is no reason to fear the safety of these vaccines in the future. If the damage was going to be done it would be done early on, not years or even months from now.

Given the fact that the messenger is excreted shortly after it has done its job, the rest is my opinion and it is what I have to feel safe with this mRNA vaccine for the future. My money is on the scientists and pharm developers that there is no possibility of issues in the future. I also feel comfort in knowing these vaccines have been developed with modern state of the art technology which was put to use on a vaccine that had its beginning stages of development 30 years ago.

For your sake and for all the people I know who have been vaccinated, I truly hope that there are no long term side effects from the mRNA vaccines. But personally, why should I take that risk when the odds of me dying from Covid are so infinitesimally small???

[coffeebean]

For your sake and for all the people I know who have been vaccinated, I truly hope that there are no long term side effects from the mRNA vaccines. But personally, why should I take that risk when the odds of me dying from Covid are so infinitesimally small???


For your sake, I hope you continue to be lucky.

[stanley]

For your sake, I hope you continue to be lucky.

You also

[Swoop]

For your sake, I hope you continue to be lucky.

It’s not luck, it’s statistical data. According to the CDC the odds of someone my age being hospitalized with Covid are 266.3 in 100,000, that’s .00267. Also according to the CDC 87% of those hospitalized were obese or overweight. I’m neither. That further lowers my odds to .00035. The CDC also said that the majority of those hospitalized had an average is 2.6 of the these pre existing conditions; diabetes, heart disease, lung disease or hypertension. Without those my odds drop to virtually zero. I’ll take those odds over an unproven vaccine technology.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Unless they have the ability to see into the future, they absolutely don’t “know” that the mRNA vaccines are safe long term. They certainly appear to be safe short term. It’s the long term unknown that I have an issue with. These are the first mRNA vaccines approved for use in humans. There have been NO studies of the long term safety of these vaccines...

Swoop, I had the same hesitancy as you and for the same reason. I ultimately got the jab after hours of research. As others have said, the platform for the vaccines is NOT new. It has been undergoing testing for many years. I could only find two reports that questioned the safety of the vaccines, and the credibility of the sources was far from ironclad, whereas there are hundreds of reports that attest to the safety of the vaccines.

I partly agree with the other poster who mentioned that the chances of the unvaccinated being hospitalized or dying from Covid are extremely low (but not as low as s/he cites). According to the sources that follow, including the esteemed Lancet, the unvaccinated have an approximately 80-90% chance of having mild symptoms or no symptoms. And that's IF they get infected - not everyone gets infected - far from it. Covid is contagious, for sure, but not nearly as contagious as we've been led to believe (in my opinion), otherwise every prison and military installation would be overrun with the disease. And since the vaccine confers a 95% likelihood of not dying or needing hospitalization, vaccination only upgrades one's chances of an uneventful outcome by 5-15%.

I also fell over to the other side in order to do my part to achieve herd immunity and also to free myself from worrying about my modest but real 10-20% chance of hospitalization or death IF I get infected. After all, I go to the squares often and nobody's wearing a mask there. And I go to restaurants and bars where you see the same thing. I always wondered, what's the point in requiring a mask as you enter and leave a restaurant or bar if you and everyone else in the building is not wearing a mask most of the time?

So I weighed the pros and cons and what finally put me over the other side was when I read that concert promoters might require audiences to be vaccinated! No way I'm going to be turned away from concerts after going through withdrawals from not attending any the last 14 months!

* Sources:

DEFINE_ME (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanwpc/article/PIIS2666-6065(20)30055-9/fulltext)

Mild COVID-19 Symptoms: Timeline, Progression, Contagiousness (https://www.healthline.com/health/mild-covid-symptoms)


80% of Coronavirus Patients Have Mild Symptoms — Here's What They Are (https://www.businessinsider.com/what-coronavirus-mild-symptoms-are-fever-2020-3)

Mild vs. moderate vs. severe Covid-19 symptoms: Here's what to expect - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/health/covid-19-symptoms-mild-moderate-severe-wellness/index.html)

http://somatosphere.net/2020/mild-covid.html/

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-its-like-to-survive-covid-19

[coffeebean]

You also

Thank you!

[stanley]

.

So I weighed the pros and cons and what finally put me over the other side was when I read that concert promoters might require audiences to be vaccinated! No way I'm going to be turned away from concerts after going through withdrawals from not attending any

So that's what did it for you...to each his own

[Swoop]

Swoop, I had the same hesitancy as you and for the same reason. I ultimately got the jab after hours of research. As others have said, the platform for the vaccines is NOT new. It has been undergoing testing for many years. I could only find two reports that questioned the safety of the vaccines, and the credibility of the sources was far from ironclad, whereas there are hundreds of reports that attest to the safety of the vaccines.

I also fell over to the other side in order to do my part to achieve herd immunity and also to free myself from worrying about my 10-20% chance of hospitalization or death IF I get infected. After all, I go to the squares often and nobody's wearing a mask there. And I go to restaurants and bars where you see the same thing. I always wondered, what's the point in requiring a mask as you enter and leave a restaurant or bar if you and everyone else in the building is not wearing a mask most of the time?

I partly agree with the other poster who mentioned that the chances of the unvaccinated being hospitalized or dying from Covid are extremely low (but not as low as s/he cites). According to the sources that follow, including the esteemed Lancet, the unvaccinated have an approximately 80-90% chance of having mild symptoms or no symptoms. And that's IF they get infected - not everyone gets infected - far from it. Covid is contagious, for sure, but not nearly as contagious as we've been led to believe (in my opinion), otherwise every prison and military installation would be overrun with the disease.

So I weighed the pros and cons and what finally put me over the other side was when I read that concert promoters might require audiences to be vaccinated! No way I'm going to be turned away from concerts after going through withdrawals from not attending any the last 14 months!

* Sources:

DEFINE_ME (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanwpc/article/PIIS2666-6065(20)30055-9/fulltext)

Mild COVID-19 Symptoms: Timeline, Progression, Contagiousness (https://www.healthline.com/health/mild-covid-symptoms)


80% of Coronavirus Patients Have Mild Symptoms — Here's What They Are (https://www.businessinsider.com/what-coronavirus-mild-symptoms-are-fever-2020-3)

Mild vs. moderate vs. severe Covid-19 symptoms: Here's what to expect - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/health/covid-19-symptoms-mild-moderate-severe-wellness/index.html)

http://somatosphere.net/2020/mild-covid.html/

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-its-like-to-survive-covid-19
I respect your decision as I’m sure you respect mine. Although they experimented with mRNA for many years, there are thousands of potential treatments that scientists experiment with. They never received approval for widespread use and they never performed any long term studies. If it means skipping a concert or a cruise for a year or two, I can live with that. Hopefully these vaccines will not have negative long term effects.

[jimjamuser]

You "believe" and you "trust"......good for you......there are a lot of "us" that don't.
There are a FEW of you that do not trust the vaccines that medical scientists have put their stamp of approval on. But, you, the few, will have a large negative influence on the "many" in the US. The few will play into the CV's hands (or tentacles) and allow it to mutate and spread when it could have been stopped. The few anti-vaccers will prevent the achievement of herd immunity which the MANY want so badly. The FEW anti-vaccers will almost guarantee that CV is around for several more years and we, the MANY, will be required to get several shots each year. And our Government (and your friends and taxpayers) will have to foot the bill. And the US will be further weakened by wedges in her society. And won't there be broad smiles on the faces of communist, fascist dictators around the world - who hate the US? I hope you unpatriotic anti-vaxxer junkies can live with yourselves for what you are doing!

[stanley]

There are a FEW of you that do not trust the vaccines that medical scientists have put their stamp of approval on. But, you, the few, will have a large negative influence on the "many" in the US. The few will play into the CV's hands (or tentacles) and allow it to mutate and spread when it could have been stopped. The few anti-vaccers will prevent the achievement of herd immunity which the MANY want so badly. The FEW anti-vaccers will almost guarantee that CV is around for several more years and we, the MANY, will be required to get several shots each year. And our Government (and your friends and taxpayers) will have to foot the bill. And the US will be further weakened by wedges in her society. And won't there be broad smiles on the faces of communist, fascist dictators around the world - who hate the US? I hope you unpatriotic anti-vaxxer junkies can live with yourselves for what you are doing!

Stop with the bull **** scare tactics.....it's not working

[jimjamuser]

Unless they have the ability to see into the future, they absolutely don’t “know” that the mRNA vaccines are safe long term. They certainly appear to be safe short term. It’s the long term unknown that I have an issue with. These are the first mRNA vaccines approved for use in humans. There have been NO studies of the long term safety of these vaccines...
Some folks grasp at the flimsiest of straws to TRY to justify their own opinions. Which would be OK with me if it were NOT for the fact that those opinions are dangerous to the health of the majority of US individuals. And it poses a threat to Democracy in US society! it is the serious matter of being on the WRONG side of History!

[jimjamuser]

I did some digging to find the truth.

Covid-19 vaccine did not kill every animal it was tested on - Full Fact (https://fullfact.org/online/covid-vaccine-animal-testing/)
Thanks for digging up the truth!

[jimjamuser]

For your sake and for all the people I know who have been vaccinated, I truly hope that there are no long term side effects from the mRNA vaccines. But personally, why should I take that risk when the odds of me dying from Covid are so infinitesimally small???
There are many reasons. But the main one is NOT wanting to be responsible for the pain and DEATHS to your fellow human beings. For some important decisions, MATURE adults weigh not only their risks vs reward - but also, the risks to OTHERS in society. They take a whole of society approach. The future will NOT be very bright for a world where the Corona Virus WINS!

[coffeebean]

Stop with the bull **** scare tactics.....it's not working
IMHO, that is not "bull$h!t scare tactics; just a truth many do not want to digest".

[stanley]

IMHO, that is not "bull$h!t scare tactics; just a truth many do not want to digest".


Well....ya know what they say about opinions......................:ohdear:

[jimjamuser]

I respect your decision as I’m sure you respect mine. Although they experimented with mRNA for many years, there are thousands of potential treatments that scientists experiment with. They never received approval for widespread use and they never performed any long term studies. If it means skipping a concert or a cruise for a year or two, I can live with that. Hopefully these vaccines will not have negative long term effects.
That's worrying about the cure - when you should be worrying about the Pandemic!

[jimjamuser]

Stop with the bull **** scare tactics.....it's not working
The CV Pandemic's scare tactics have worked for the majority of US citizens that chose the vaccines. Maybe the passenger pigeon and the DoDo bird SHOULD have been more afraid of "scare tactics"

[Swoop]

Some folks grasp at the flimsiest of straws to TRY to justify their own opinions. Which would be OK with me if it were NOT for the fact that those opinions are dangerous to the health of the majority of US individuals. And it poses a threat to Democracy in US society! it is the serious matter of being on the WRONG side of History!
Change my mind. Show me evidence that the mRNA vaccines are safe 2, 3, or 5 years down the road. Provide a study, a trial, something that indicates the long term effects. You appear willing to take a leap of faith. Interesting that 40% or more of Fauci’s group have opted not to participate in this vaccine trial...

[drducat]

The CV Pandemic's scare tactics have worked for the majority of US citizens that chose the vaccines. Maybe the passenger pigeon and the DoDo bird SHOULD have been more afraid of "scare tactics"

Here is something to worry about...

https://republicans-intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/covid-19_and_the_wuhan_institute_of_virology_19_may_2021 .pdf


And who is to say this is not a bioweapon...I would be worried about vaccine that creates this spike protein....who knows...it can be harboring in an area of the body waiting to...who knows what.

[stanley]

Here is something to worry about...

https://republicans-intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/covid-19_and_the_wuhan_institute_of_virology_19_may_2021 .pdf


And who is to say this is not a bioweapon...I would be worried about vaccine that creates this spike protein....who knows...it can be harboring in an area of the body waiting to...who knows what.

I think you stumped the panel

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Here is something to worry about...

https://republicans-intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/covid-19_and_the_wuhan_institute_of_virology_19_may_2021 .pdf


And who is to say this is not a bioweapon...I would be worried about vaccine that creates this spike protein....who knows...it can be harboring in an area of the body waiting to...who knows what.

Ya all that sucks but now many of us are more concerned about finding documentation questioning the safety of the vaccines. After hours of research I did before deciding to get the vaccine, I can say there seems to be little or no reliable reports concluding they are unsafe.

Some might say that's because they're "new" (even though they're not). Whether they're new or old, they are here now and I have faith that our esteemed scientists the world over are capable of researching each of the components of the vaccine in isolation and in combination. I'm guessing they have done so and I find it reassuring they are not reporting danger signs.

That said, I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but I am concerned about the report you posted especially when looked at against the backdrop of all our other "adventures," such as the following. I have to conclude anything is possible.

Tuskeegee

Non-consensual experiments on prisoners, the military, pregnant women and the mentally ill

MK Ultra

Atomic testing in Nevada

Selling bombs to Iran and drugs to American citizens to fund the Nicaraguan contras

JFK assassination*

*Why the Public Stopped Believing the Government about JFK’s Murder - HISTORY (https://www.history.com/news/why-the-public-stopped-believing-the-government-about-jfks-murder)

[stanley]

Whether they're new or old, they are here now and I have faith that our esteemed scientists the world over are capable of researching each of the components of the vaccine in isolation and in combination. I'm guessing they have done so and I find it reassuring they are not reporting danger signs.



"I'm guessing"........."I find it reassuring"......
""they" are " not reporting "danger signs.

You trust...I don't

[LiverpoolWalrus]

"I'm guessing"........."I find it reassuring"......
""they" are " not reporting "danger signs.

You trust...I don't

Oh. I thought you'd be more interested in the atrocities I cited.

[stanley]

Oh. I thought you'd be more interested in the atrocities I cited.

Those "atrocities" have absolutely nothing to do with the "virus" or vaccinations.