COVID and the CONTINUAL Mixed "EXPERT" messages = SO IRRITATING!

[DeanFL]

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We are SO DONE with the continual (for well over one year now) mis-information / misleading / no information / changing information from the so-called "EXPERTS".

We are both fully vaccinated, and will follow the so-called "rules".. but HAVE HAD IT with 'expert leadership' messages and commucations to us>

front-page artcle on USA Today>

Is herd immunity to COVID-19 possible? Experts increasingly say no.

For almost a year, Americans have been looking forward to herd immunity, when enough people are protected through vaccination or past infection to stop the spread of COVID-19.

Once there, public officials have said, masks won't be necessary and hugging and handshakes – not to mention gyms, bars and indoor dining – can return.

But even as more than half of Americans have received at least one dose of vaccine and many others are protected by recent infections, health experts are moving away from the idea of reaching some magic number.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease doctor, doesn't want to talk about herd immunity anymore.

“Rather than concentrating on an elusive number, let's get as many people vaccinated as quickly as we possibly can,” he said at a White House briefing last week, a sentiment he's since repeated.
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Herd immunity in US likely impossible, but vaccines can control COVID (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/04/19/herd-immunity-us-likely-impossible-but-vaccines-can-control-covid/7139419002/)
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[Bjeanj]

It does seem like we’re shooting at a moving target. However, my impression is that the experts are communicating the best information they have at that moment in time. I also think they are doing the best they can as the information becomes available. If we are frustrated, I can imagine how the experts feel.

[Bucco]

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We are SO DONE with the continual (for well over one year now) mis-information / misleading / no information / changing information from the so-called "EXPERTS".

We are both fully vaccinated, and will follow the so-called "rules".. but HAVE HAD IT with 'expert leadership' messages and commucations to us>

front-page artcle on USA Today>

Is herd immunity to COVID-19 possible? Experts increasingly say no.

For almost a year, Americans have been looking forward to herd immunity, when enough people are protected through vaccination or past infection to stop the spread of COVID-19.

Once there, public officials have said, masks won't be necessary and hugging and handshakes – not to mention gyms, bars and indoor dining – can return.

But even as more than half of Americans have received at least one dose of vaccine and many others are protected by recent infections, health experts are moving away from the idea of reaching some magic number.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease doctor, doesn't want to talk about herd immunity anymore.

“Rather than concentrating on an elusive number, let's get as many people vaccinated as quickly as we possibly can,” he said at a White House briefing last week, a sentiment he's since repeated.
.
.

Herd immunity in US likely impossible, but vaccines can control COVID (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/04/19/herd-immunity-us-likely-impossible-but-vaccines-can-control-covid/7139419002/)
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I read your link differently.

It seems to be an article pointing out the negative results because of so many individuals and groups
who say the will not get the vaccine.

With a few variations, the message has been consistent, and the message we have been given is to get the vaccine, yet so many, for whatever reason, have said they will not.

Thus, because of American citizens deciding to turn their back on immunization, “herd immunity” appears to be a dream.

Those deriding continuing restriction now have a way out, if you will (promote immunization). Not taking advantage will penalize us all.

[MSchad]

I read your link differently.

It seems to be an article pointing out the negative results because of so many individuals and groups
who say the will not get the vaccine.

With a few variations, the message has been consistent, and the message we have been given is to get the vaccine, yet so many, for whatever reason, have said they will not.

Thus, because of American citizens deciding to turn their back on immunization, “herd immunity” appears to be a dream.

Those deriding continuing restriction now have a way out, if you will (promote immunization). Not taking advantage will penalize us all.

If you've had your vaccinations and believe you are protected, why worry anymore if that person or that person may not have been vaccinated? Throw your mask away and enjoy life. Or are you not totally sold on the vaccinations actually working?

[Bucco]

If you've had your vaccinations and believe you are protected, why worry anymore if that person or that person may not have been vaccinated? Throw your mask away and enjoy life. Or are you not totally sold on the vaccinations actually working?

What I do is certainly my business.

I simply replied to what I consider a mischaracterization of an article linked.

[Topspinmo]

Just cause you got vaccinated don’t mean you can’t get Covid or pass it on. It just means most likely you won’t become deathly ill from it if you are in the 95%. Now some of us just may be in 5% category. I choose to follow guidelines.

[Mortal1]

Perhaps you could just use some common sense in addressing this disease as you would any other communicable disease like the flu or a cold. It works just as well.

[graciegirl]

It does seem like we’re shooting at a moving target. However, my impression is that the experts are communicating the best information they have at that moment in time. I also think they are doing the best they can as the information becomes available. If we are frustrated, I can imagine how the experts feel.

WELL SAID. People are looking for information not available to ANYONE. It takes more time to truly assess what has happened and what will happen. There is sometimes NO answers to questions.

[JoelJohnson]

The virus is not logical, it takes advantage of mistakes we make.

[golfing eagles]

Just cause you got vaccinated don’t mean you can’t get Covid or pass it on. It just means most likely you won’t become deathly ill from it if you are in the 95%. Now some of us just may be in 5% category. I choose to follow guidelines.

Tell that to members of our leadership in DC, who mock those who follow guidance.

When is this absurd rumor/myth going to end????

According to the CDC----the COVID infection rate among those fully vaccinated is 0.008%. Actually, the CDC reports 5,814 breakthrough cases out of 85 million vaccinated, which by math is 0.00694%

"Last week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported 5,814 breakthrough cases out of more than 85 million people fully vaccinated in the U.S. Public health experts said those numbers show how well the vaccine protects you"

Translation: Only 1 in 13,000 people who were fully vaccinated got COVID, and probably fewer than that could "pass it on"

Get it now?????

Personally, I was surprised since I thought it would be closer to 5%, but apparently the vaccine is conferring more immunity than originally thought.

So please people, stop posting that you can still get and pass on COVID if you are vaccinated. (Yes, Yes 0.008% is not zero, as some members of the American Association of Amateur Physicians with Google have pointed out in other threads)

[DeanFL]

.
We are SO DONE with the continual (for well over one year now) mis-information / misleading / no information / changing information from the so-called "EXPERTS".

We are both fully vaccinated, and will follow the so-called "rules".. but HAVE HAD IT with 'expert leadership' messages and commucations to us>
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.
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The REASON I posted this was due to the (well over one year) CONTINUAL changes for COVID advice, guidance, regulations etc from Fauci & CDC among other "experts".

No masks needed, wear a mask, wear two masks. now ???
Disinfect all surfaces and anything brought into the house, now???
Social Distance of 6 feet, 3 feet., now???
Stay HOME!, now???
Quarantine., now???
Tests are very important, now?
Do not enter other's homes, even family members, now???
Do not travel, now???
Do not go to a church with more than xxx parishioners, now???
Schools should not open - must have distant learning., now???

but - the main topic - WHEN is "Herd Immunity" accomplished? Went from 'no idea' to months ago, 60-70%, then 70-80%, then 80-90%. Now... never???

And, for 'normal folks, who may not trust the vaccine - what incentive may they have to change their mind? Still, mask up, social distance, and no impact to 'herd imunity' for the country...
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[Topspinmo]

When is this absurd rumor/myth going to end????

According to the CDC----the COVID infection rate among those fully vaccinated is 0.008%. Actually, the CDC reports 5,814 breakthrough cases out of 85 million vaccinated, which by math is 0.00694%

"Last week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported 5,814 breakthrough cases out of more than 85 million people fully vaccinated in the U.S. Public health experts said those numbers show how well the vaccine protects you"

Translation: Only 1 in 13,000 people who were fully vaccinated got COVID, and probably fewer than that could "pass it on"

Get it now?????

Personally, I was surprised since I thought it would be closer to 5%, but apparently the vaccine is conferring more immunity than originally thought.

So please people, stop posting that you can still get and pass on COVID if you are vaccinated. (Yes, Yes 0.008% is not zero, as some members of the American Association of Amateur Physicians with Google have pointed out in other threads)

But, you can STILL pass it on, so as long I don’t die I don’t care attitude.

[golfing eagles]

But, you can STILL pass it on, so as long I don’t die I don’t care attitude.

Sure you can-----somewhat less than 1 in 13,000.

For comparison, the odds of finding a 4 leaf clover are 1 in 10,000 and according to NASA the odds of being hit by a meteorite are 1 in 3,000.

But yes, once again, none of those are zero:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[J1ceasar]

Some people have none of the above, so they have to be led by the nose whether it's a green light red light on the street corner or someone on TV telling them to wear masks. It's common sense to continue to wear your mask. It's common sense to take the vaccine if it's available to you even if only 5% of 5% of 5% can still get infected or pass it on to somebody else wouldn't be there the right thing to keep wearing a mask so you don't get infect someone else or get it from someone else. Why do these things bother you so much. Just relax and enjoy life as best as you can. It doesn't matter who's in charge, I believe both sides are trying to do their best as far as this horrible disease goes. I don't blame anybody and I don't give anyone credit for dealing anything better than the next guy because life just happens. Unfortunately people are dead and it has ruined a lot of people's livelihoods but my neighbors certainly didn't do anything bad and my family didn't do anything bad. Just continue to have faith wear a mask is probably another year or two or more and be thankful you're not in a hospital suffering. Like I said common sense and if you don't like what they're saying turn off the darn TV and stop reading those internet comments

[Art cov]

Unless we are blind, we have seen most of the experts n big shots not following their own guidelines and recommendations. What does that tell you?

[Windguy]

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The REASON I posted this was due to the (well over one year) CONTINUAL changes for COVID advice, guidance, regulations etc from Fauci & CDC among other "experts".
This is science—not religion. If you want dogma that doesn’t change with new facts, go to church.

The Scientific Method works because new information is used to refute or validate hypotheses (speculations). The hypotheses that survive scrutiny become well-tested theories.

A lot of the early guidance resulted from the experts being conservative because the virus was new and they were not certain how it worked. They tried to head off the selfish hoarders who would have bought up all the masks and left none for the heroes fighting in the trenches, so they discouraged mask use. These people are doing the best they can given the circumstances, so please cut them a little slack.

It didn’t help when anti-science leaders told the public to ignore the scientists. That made it much harder to fight the disease. Far fewer people would be dead and we would be closer to working our way back to normal if it hadn’t been for them.

[Windguy]

People seem to be confusing the odds of getting sick with the odds of getting sick if you are infected. The odds of getting infected are multiplied by the odds of suffering from the disease if infected to arrive at the total odds of suffering from the disease. The 95% immunity is the probability of not suffering if exposed to the virus (5% chance of becoming ill or 1 in 20). The vaccine doesn’t prevent you from becoming infected—it reduces the chances by 95% of feeling miserable or dying once infected.

So, if the chances of becoming exposed to the virus so that you carry it around were, say, 1 in 1,000, the total odds of getting sick are 1 in 1,000 times 1 in 20 or 1 in 20,000. If people refuse to take sensible precautions, then the odds of getting infected go up as do the odds of suffering.

[oneclickplus]

It does seem like we’re shooting at a moving target. However, my impression is that the experts are communicating the best information they have at that moment in time. I also think they are doing the best they can as the information becomes available. If we are frustrated, I can imagine how the experts feel.

Well, that's one analysis. I see the "experts" as manipulating the population with dribs and drabs of information (accurate or not) to coerce (convince) the people to do whatever their (or their bosses) whims might be that day. It's criminal injecting hundreds of millions of people with an unapproved (yes, that's correct) concoction in the interest of doing "something" quickly. I remember when Saint Anthony (fauci) was saying that we didn't need to wear masks and that COVID was nothing to worry about. He is the highest paid "know nothing" with a microphone.

A year ago: "Top disease official: Risk of coronavirus in USA is 'minuscule'"

Risk of coronavirus in U.S. is 'minuscule' NIH's Dr. Anthony Fauci says (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/)

Today: "Get vaccinated" (LOL)

No thank you Saint Anthony. My immune system is just fine and fully armed. Plenty of C, D, Zinc, Magnesium.

Dr. Ryan Cole's video (which youtube pulled and the MSM doesn't support because he tells the truth) says it plainly and succinctly:

We don't have a seasonal cold & flu season ... we have a seasonal "lack of vitamin D". It's the same with COVID.

[oneclickplus]

WELL SAID. People are looking for information not available to ANYONE. It takes more time to truly assess what has happened and what will happen. There is sometimes NO answers to questions.

Then, maybe the "experts" should keep their mouths shut instead of pretending that they have answers.

No one knows what the outcome will be of injecting hundreds of millions of people with mRNA shots (not a vaccine) 2, 5, 10 years down the road. They can't possibly know. But, they push the shots (not a vaccine) as if they do know.

[Altavia]

When is this absurd rumor/myth going to end????

According to the CDC----the COVID infection rate among those fully vaccinated is 0.008%. Actually, the CDC reports 5,814 breakthrough cases out of 85 million vaccinated, which by math is 0.00694%

"Last week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported 5,814 breakthrough cases out of more than 85 million people fully vaccinated in the U.S. Public health experts said those numbers show how well the vaccine protects you"

Translation: Only 1 in 13,000 people who were fully vaccinated got COVID, and probably fewer than that could "pass it on"

Get it now?????

Personally, I was surprised since I thought it would be closer to 5%, but apparently the vaccine is conferring more immunity than originally thought.

So please people, stop posting that you can still get and pass on COVID if you are vaccinated. (Yes, Yes 0.008% is not zero, as some members of the American Association of Amateur Physicians with Google have pointed out in other threads)

This real world data is incredibly encouraging.


CDC: Fewer than 6,000 fully vaccinated Americans contracted Covid (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/19/cdc-says-there-have-been-less-than-6000-breakthrough-covid-cases-among-fully-vaccinated-americans.html)

" U.S. health officials have confirmed fewer than 6,000 cases of Covid-19 out of the nearly 77 million individuals in the United States who have been fully vaccinated.

That represents just 0.007% of the 84 million Americans with full protection against the virus.

Out of the 6,000 or so breakthrough infections, 396 people were hospitalized and 74 people died, according to CDC data released last week."

[golfing eagles]

Well, that's one analysis. I see the "experts" as manipulating the population with dribs and drabs of information (accurate or not) to coerce (convince) the people to do whatever their (or their bosses) whims might be that day. It's criminal injecting hundreds of millions of people with an unapproved (yes, that's correct) concoction in the interest of doing "something" quickly. I remember when Saint Anthony (fauci) was saying that we didn't need to wear masks and that COVID was nothing to worry about. He is the highest paid "know nothing" with a microphone.

A year ago: "Top disease official: Risk of coronavirus in USA is 'minuscule'"

Risk of coronavirus in U.S. is 'minuscule' NIH's Dr. Anthony Fauci says (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/)

Today: "Get vaccinated" (LOL)

No thank you Saint Anthony. My immune system is just fine and fully armed. Plenty of C, D, Zinc, Magnesium.

Dr. Ryan Cole's video (which youtube pulled and the MSM doesn't support because he tells the truth) says it plainly and succinctly:

We don't have a seasonal cold & flu season ... we have a seasonal "lack of vitamin D". It's the same with COVID.

Nice rant and even nicer tag line.

Do you know Tony Fauci?
Have you ever had dinner with him?
Have you ever conversed with him?

Bottom line----when it comes to Fauci, you have no idea what you are babbling about.

And when it comes to your immune system being "just fine" due to Vit C,D, zinc and mag, you are even more clueless.

Did you get your polio vaccine? Or did you take vitamins and argue with the experts?
Smallpox? Tetanus? Diphtheria? Pertussis? Or is it just the COVID vaccine that gets your undies in a bunch?

[oneclickplus]

When is this absurd rumor/myth going to end????

According to the CDC----the COVID infection rate among those fully vaccinated is 0.008%. Actually, the CDC reports 5,814 breakthrough cases out of 85 million vaccinated, which by math is 0.00694%

"Last week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported 5,814 breakthrough cases out of more than 85 million people fully vaccinated in the U.S. Public health experts said those numbers show how well the vaccine protects you"

Translation: Only 1 in 13,000 people who were fully vaccinated got COVID, and probably fewer than that could "pass it on"

Get it now?????

Personally, I was surprised since I thought it would be closer to 5%, but apparently the vaccine is conferring more immunity than originally thought.

So please people, stop posting that you can still get and pass on COVID if you are vaccinated. (Yes, Yes 0.008% is not zero, as some members of the American Association of Amateur Physicians with Google have pointed out in other threads)

That's awesome. So, all of the "vaccinated" people should be comfortable leaving the rest of the population to make their own decision about whether to get the shot. Herd immunity is unnecessary then if 99.316% of those fully "vaccinated" can go about their lives and not worry about getting sick.

Only those who choose not to be injected would appear to be at risk. So, leave us alone.
We don't need "passports" or any other checks on our decision making if what you are saying is accurate.

[Bay Kid]

One thing I have learned, there are no experts. If so they change what is going on often. More about control nowadays.

[golfing eagles]

That's awesome. So, all of the "vaccinated" people should be comfortable leaving the rest of the population to make their own decision about whether to get the shot. Herd immunity is unnecessary then if 99.316% of those fully "vaccinated" can go about their lives and not worry about getting sick.

Only those who choose not to be injected would appear to be at risk. So, leave us alone.
We don't need "passports" or any other checks on our decision making if what you are saying is accurate.

From a strictly "who will and will not get ill or die" point of view, you are correct.
However, the government is responsible to ALL the people, including the anti-vaxers. So with your philosophy we'll all be wearing masks for a long time. Who will pay the bill for those who last 1 month in the ICU? Who will pay for medical care of the long-haulers?

And BTW, IT IS A VACCINE!!! I've posted the definition of a vaccine several times, so now you can go look it up for yourself

[MDLNB]

"Science, common sense, threat level?"
What "science?" The fact that there IS a virus and that some folks have died WITH it? OK, what's next?
"Common sense?" Common sense is wearing a mask because you say it's common sense? Is it common sense to wear a mask to prevent a virus infection that has less of a chance of affecting you as a lightening strike, a car accident, a drive by shooting, etc? Is it common sense to wear a paper mask and keep adjusting it with your hands when you would normally not even touch your face while shopping?
"Threat level?" What is the REAL threat level after being vaccinated? Some say (experts?) that it is near impossible to pass on the virus since you cannot become infected (or hardly a chance of infection) once vaccinated. If there is less than a one in a thousand chance of even becoming infected, let alone deathly ill from the virus before you are even vaccinated, what are the chances of infection after vaccinated? The truth, not an "expert" theory.
I have been told that there is a much greater chance of a serious injury by motorcycle accident than a car accident injury. Was I supposed to quit enjoying a ride on my motorcycle? After over 50 years of operating a motorcycle without injury, I am supposed to quit because an "expert" suggested that motorcycles are dangerous? I fell off a ladder while painting and injured myself so should I never use a ladder again? It only happened once in over 70 years.
I am not going to attempt to tell anyone else how they should rule their own lives. Just do not tell me how I NEED to run my life or change my lifestyle to suit you. If you believe these so-called "experts" on TV that tell you that you should fear for your life if you don't wear a filthy mask on your face, then by all means go for it. If you feel like it is wrong and dangerous to go to the Village Square to enjoy some music, then stay home and quit telling everyone else that they should feel ashamed for having fun. If you feel that the spacing in a restaurant is not sufficient then don't frequent it, but shut up and leave other folks that can think for themselves alone to enjoy their meal in peace.
I will say this again. It is not anyone else's responsibility for your peace of mind. Your safety is your own responsibility. If you feel that a ghetto street at night is dangerous, do you still walk down it alone at night? If someone else is a fool, it is not your responsibility to make demands of them, unless it directly effects you.
Hope you have a great life. I intend to live mine happy. If that makes you feel that I have disregarded your peace of mine, then you have a problem that is better suited to be addressed with an "expert" not complaining on a social media forum.

[billethkid]

Once upon a time all that was needed...."...15 days to flatten the curve....".

Now 15 months later......

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Just cause you got vaccinated don’t mean you can’t get Covid or pass it on. It just means most likely you won’t become deathly ill from it if you are in the 95%. Now some of us just may be in 5% category. I choose to follow guidelines.
I for one do not believe this statement. My being vaccinated means, to me, I won’t “get it” nor will I “pass it on.” I am maskless but mindful of getting too close to others, keep my hands clean and cover my face/nose/mouth if I sneeze or cough.

[golfing eagles]

I for one do not believe this statement. My being vaccinated means, to me, I won’t “get it” nor will I “pass it on.” I am maskless but mindful of getting too close to others, keep my hands clean and cover my face/nose/mouth if I sneeze or cough.

Again, not only to you, but to the CDC as well

CDC: Only 5814 out of 85 million became infected with COVID after full vaccination-----0.008%

The myth started with an article in an obscure medical journal that simply questioned whether a vaccinated individual could come in contact with COVID and harbor the virus for a few hours and pass it on. They suggested more research. Well, it's 5 months later, and the "more" research is in-----0.008%

So again, I implore people to stop re-posting this nonsense that vaccinated individuals can acquire and pass on the virus.

[Lindaws]

Just like everything. Move goalpost

[Gmaf6]

Because I get the flu, pneumonia, shingles shots doesn’t mean I won’t get those either.....once vaccinated, I choose to live my life without fear. We’ve had enough.....if you’re fearful, do what you want. It’s becoming more and more about control.

[MDLNB]

Just cause you got vaccinated don’t mean you can’t get Covid or pass it on. It just means most likely you won’t become deathly ill from it if you are in the 95%. Now some of us just may be in 5% category. I choose to follow guidelines.


A lightning rod does not keep your home from being struck either. I am also following guidelines. Mine are from REAL doctors. Since there is more chance of getting struck by lightning than infected by the virus now that I am vaccinated, I prefer to enjoy my life. Not telling anyone else that they should do what they feel is uncomfortable.

I listen to what the TV star CDC folks say, but for entertainment value mostly. Like everything else, science is dynamic not static.

[Joe C.]

73 years old.
Never had a pneumonia shot, a shingles shot, a flu shot, and haven't had a tetanus shot in over 25 years. I do take meds and insulin.

Worried about covid? No. Do I listen to the "experts"? Well I listen, but don't believe much of what they say. Keeping my hands clean and away from my nose and eyes is about it. I wear a mask only in stores that require it. Other than that I don't.
No problem.

[Gray lady of the sea]

Thank you !!!

[BruggsNC1]

I agree with "JBeanj". The way that Science works is that they are CONTINUALLY gathering data. As they gather more data they gain more knowledge. They are passing this newfound knowledge on to us as they get it. What do you think is more accurate, information gathered on 3000 individuals or 30 million ? It is not being "wishy-washy", it is just giving you the best information that they have at the time.

[Dgodin]

.
.
We are SO DONE with the continual (for well over one year now) mis-information / misleading / no information / changing information from the so-called "EXPERTS".

We are both fully vaccinated, and will follow the so-called "rules".. but HAVE HAD IT with 'expert leadership' messages and commucations to us>

front-page artcle on USA Today>

Is herd immunity to COVID-19 possible? Experts increasingly say no.

For almost a year, Americans have been looking forward to herd immunity, when enough people are protected through vaccination or past infection to stop the spread of COVID-19.

Once there, public officials have said, masks won't be necessary and hugging and handshakes – not to mention gyms, bars and indoor dining – can return.

But even as more than half of Americans have received at least one dose of vaccine and many others are protected by recent infections, health experts are moving away from the idea of reaching some magic number.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease doctor, doesn't want to talk about herd immunity anymore.

“Rather than concentrating on an elusive number, let's get as many people vaccinated as quickly as we possibly can,” he said at a White House briefing last week, a sentiment he's since repeated.
.
.

Herd immunity in US likely impossible, but vaccines can control COVID (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/04/19/herd-immunity-us-likely-impossible-but-vaccines-can-control-covid/7139419002/)
.
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Herd immunity may not be possible because a segment of the population doesn't want to be vaccinated, not because of mixed messages from the experts.

[lkagele]

73 years old.
Never had a pneumonia shot, a shingles shot, a flu shot, and haven't had a tetanus shot in over 25 years. I do take meds and insulin.

Worried about covid? No. Do I listen to the "experts"? Well I listen, but don't believe much of what they say. Keeping my hands clean and away from my nose and eyes is about it. I wear a mask only in stores that require it. Other than that I don't.
No problem.

I'm with you there. If there's a sign, 'Mask Required', I wear one. If it's only recommended, I don't.

I'm following our governor's advice. If you've been vaccinated you're immune. Act like it.

I'm just waiting to hear from Pete Buttigieg that wearing a mask is infrastructure......

[DAVES]

.
.
We are SO DONE with the continual (for well over one year now) mis-information / misleading / no information / changing information from the so-called "EXPERTS".

We are both fully vaccinated, and will follow the so-called "rules".. but HAVE HAD IT with 'expert leadership' messages and commucations to us>

front-page artcle on USA Today>

Is herd immunity to COVID-19 possible? Experts increasingly say no.

For almost a year, Americans have been looking forward to herd immunity, when enough people are protected through vaccination or past infection to stop the spread of COVID-19.

Once there, public officials have said, masks won't be necessary and hugging and handshakes – not to mention gyms, bars and indoor dining – can return.

But even as more than half of Americans have received at least one dose of vaccine and many others are protected by recent infections, health experts are moving away from the idea of reaching some magic number.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease doctor, doesn't want to talk about herd immunity anymore.

“Rather than concentrating on an elusive number, let's get as many people vaccinated as quickly as we possibly can,” he said at a White House briefing last week, a sentiment he's since repeated.
.
.

Herd immunity in US likely impossible, but vaccines can control COVID (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/04/19/herd-immunity-us-likely-impossible-but-vaccines-can-control-covid/7139419002/)
.
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We expect, we demand perfect answers.

In the real world it does not work that way.

What we do, what we should do is the best you can.

Polio. Polio has been wiped out in the United States. It was a horror. I walls a killer.
There were people in a device called an iron lung that would keep them alive till they finally mercifully died.

Before you were allowed to go to school you had to prove you were vaccinated.

Today, imagine the uproar if everyone was forced to get a covid vaccine.

[nick demis]

If you've had your vaccinations and believe you are protected, why worry anymore if that person or that person may not have been vaccinated? Throw your mask away and enjoy life. Or are you not totally sold on the vaccinations actually working?

Exactly

[Spalumbos62]

That's awesome. So, all of the "vaccinated" people should be comfortable leaving the rest of the population to make their own decision about whether to get the shot. Herd immunity is unnecessary then if 99.316% of those fully "vaccinated" can go about their lives and not worry about getting sick.

Only those who choose not to be injected would appear to be at risk. So, leave us alone.
We don't need "passports" or any other checks on our decision making if what you are saying is accurate.

Omg....this is the dumbest statement on this thread yet! Lol

[GPGuar]

But, you can STILL pass it on, so as long I don’t die I don’t care attitude.

So just stay home... problem solved!!

[Byte1]

I believe that vaccinations are good, but I also believe they should always be voluntary. Quit shaming those that are afraid and won't get theirs. I believe that seat belts serve a purpose and are good, but believe they should be voluntary and not mandatory. I believe that motorcycle helmets are good but also believe they should be voluntary. Some states mandate them. The Constitution states that one MUST be a U.S. citizen to vote, so I believe that the only way to prove a voter's eligibility is to mandate a voter ID.
Everyone has their opinions on what is a Freedom issue versus what should be mandated.
I got my Covid shots, but I do not get a flu shot. My preference and no one shames me for it. My doctor offers it to me but respects my right to decline it. The flu is often life threatening to folks, yet I have NEVER seen anyone wearing masks during flu season. Okay, tell me that it is not as dangerous. "Tell that to the ones that died from it" I hear from those discussing covid.
Get over it. If you have your vaccinations, do what you wish. By now you know that attempting to shame some of us for returning to normality, is not working. Consider this; isn't it possible that someone is taking advantage of your easily manipulated mind? Maybe I am wrong, but it won't matter much to me because I am enjoying my life while others are wallowing in self inflicted misery. Not because I enjoy seeing others suffer, but but it is their choice and I respect their choice even if I don't agree with it.
Get over it. If you refuse to get vaccinated, it's your choice. Have fun wearing protective gear and worrying about folks getting too close to you. If you get your shots and then still fear for your life, why? You do not trust the vaccinations? Then why did you get them? Do you get the flu shot every year and then wear a mask to keep from catching the flu? How effective is the flu shot? Perhaps 30 - 40%, maybe 60% on a good year? The covid shot is almost 100% guaranteed to prevent death from covid. Can it get any better than that?
Let me put a twist on an over used term. It is your "patriotic duty" as an American to be an individual and make a free choice on what you do. It is NOT "patriotic" regardless of what someone in D.C. says to live as a collective and make choices based on what a group demands. Your "morale" is not dependent upon someone else's definition of "moral duty." "Charity" is voluntary given with "love", NOT mandatory.
I'll be out and about today, WITH friends from out of town. You will be able to ID us by the absence of masks on any of us. If that offends or frightens you, run for your home or just stay your distance. We probably won't notice you fleeing. You see, we have confidence that the vaccine they pushed on us actually works. I realize that we should not trust the advertising, but maybe we just wish for this to be over so we are easily convinced. Get your vaccinations and feel a little of this freedom too.

[Byte1]

73 years old.
Never had a pneumonia shot, a shingles shot, a flu shot, and haven't had a tetanus shot in over 25 years. I do take meds and insulin.

Worried about covid? No. Do I listen to the "experts"? Well I listen, but don't believe much of what they say. Keeping my hands clean and away from my nose and eyes is about it. I wear a mask only in stores that require it. Other than that I don't.
No problem.

Why do you bother with "meds and insulin?" :):duck::throwtomatoes:

[Dilligas]

We have several factors going on....."experts" all have opinions and many differ. When they are working on something new like C-19, they are forced to learn as they go.....and that will provide changing opinions. The public generally reads or hears and believes what they want to see or hear. The C-19 virus is not an exact science yet (hopefully we will learn enough to get it more exact), and thus difference of opinions, what seems to be misleading information, and unfortunately, social media generally throws in "misinformation". We will know the facts and more accurate causes and out comes some time in the future when C-19 is contained or wiped out and science will have enough accurate information to analyze.

[kenoc7]

If you've had your vaccinations and believe you are protected, why worry anymore if that person or that person may not have been vaccinated? Throw your mask away and enjoy life. Or are you not totally sold on the vaccinations actually working?

Don't throw your mask away next winter - flu, coughs and colds at record lows this year everywhere because of masks. I'll be wearing one from Nov to April in future.

[kenoc7]

.
.
We are SO DONE with the continual (for well over one year now) mis-information / misleading / no information / changing information from the so-called "EXPERTS".

We are both fully vaccinated, and will follow the so-called "rules".. but HAVE HAD IT with 'expert leadership' messages and commucations to us>

front-page artcle on USA Today>

Is herd immunity to COVID-19 possible? Experts increasingly say no.

For almost a year, Americans have been looking forward to herd immunity, when enough people are protected through vaccination or past infection to stop the spread of COVID-19.

Once there, public officials have said, masks won't be necessary and hugging and handshakes – not to mention gyms, bars and indoor dining – can return.

But even as more than half of Americans have received at least one dose of vaccine and many others are protected by recent infections, health experts are moving away from the idea of reaching some magic number.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease doctor, doesn't want to talk about herd immunity anymore.

“Rather than concentrating on an elusive number, let's get as many people vaccinated as quickly as we possibly can,” he said at a White House briefing last week, a sentiment he's since repeated.
.
.

Herd immunity in US likely impossible, but vaccines can control COVID (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/04/19/herd-immunity-us-likely-impossible-but-vaccines-can-control-covid/7139419002/)
.
.

It is a novel = NEW coronavirus so the advice has changed as the scientists and medical people have learned more about it. Do you really want the same advice as March 2020?

[Sherry8bal]

.
.
We are SO DONE with the continual (for well over one year now) mis-information / misleading / no information / changing information from the so-called "EXPERTS".

We are both fully vaccinated, and will follow the so-called "rules".. but HAVE HAD IT with 'expert leadership' messages and commucations to us>

front-page artcle on USA Today>

Is herd immunity to COVID-19 possible? Experts increasingly say no.

For almost a year, Americans have been looking forward to herd immunity, when enough people are protected through vaccination or past infection to stop the spread of COVID-19.

Once there, public officials have said, masks won't be necessary and hugging and handshakes – not to mention gyms, bars and indoor dining – can return.

But even as more than half of Americans have received at least one dose of vaccine and many others are protected by recent infections, health experts are moving away from the idea of reaching some magic number.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease doctor, doesn't want to talk about herd immunity anymore.

“Rather than concentrating on an elusive number, let's get as many people vaccinated as quickly as we possibly can,” he said at a White House briefing last week, a sentiment he's since repeated.
.
.

Herd immunity in US likely impossible, but vaccines can control COVID (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/04/19/herd-immunity-us-likely-impossible-but-vaccines-can-control-covid/7139419002/)
.
.

It's all about CONTROLLING THE PEOPLE. That's it. It's what the Dems want so they can change this country to communism.

[roscoguy]

When is this absurd rumor/myth going to end????

According to the CDC----the COVID infection rate among those fully vaccinated is 0.008%. Actually, the CDC reports 5,814 breakthrough cases out of 85 million vaccinated, which by math is 0.00694%

"Last week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported 5,814 breakthrough cases out of more than 85 million people fully vaccinated in the U.S. Public health experts said those numbers show how well the vaccine protects you"

Translation: Only 1 in 13,000 people who were fully vaccinated got COVID, and probably fewer than that could "pass it on"

Get it now?????

Personally, I was surprised since I thought it would be closer to 5%, but apparently the vaccine is conferring more immunity than originally thought.

So please people, stop posting that you can still get and pass on COVID if you are vaccinated. (Yes, Yes 0.008% is not zero, as some members of the American Association of Amateur Physicians with Google have pointed out in other threads)

Oh boy, here we go again... :ohdear: In your own words: "Only 1 in 13,000 people who were fully vaccinated got COVID, and probably fewer than that could "pass it on"", followed by "stop posting that you can still get and pass on COVID if you are vaccinated"! Just a tad contradictory, don't ya' think??? And I've still seen no recognized authorities claim that the possibility of transmission is a rumor/myth. If you have, please post a link.

I personally don't claim to be a member of any such organization :icon_wink: but I do know how to use a search engine as well as read past the first line of whatever hit gives me a warm feeling. (Not to mention posting links to pertinent information that I quote.) More context from the CDC on this issue of breakthrough cases:
"There will be a small percentage of people who are fully vaccinated who still get sick, are hospitalized, or die from COVID-19."
"Asymptomatic infections among vaccinated people also will occur."
and "It is important to note that reported vaccine breakthrough cases will represent an undercount. This surveillance system is passive and relies on voluntary reporting from state health departments which may not be complete. Also, not all real-world breakthrough cases will be identified because of lack of testing. This is particularly true in instances of asymptomatic or mild illness.". These cherries from COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html)

From another CDC page:
"If you get COVID-19 after vaccination, your symptoms might be less severe

Even though a small percentage of fully vaccinated people will get sick, vaccination will protect most people from getting sick. There also is some evidence that vaccination may make illness less severe in people who get vaccinated but still get sick. Despite this, some fully vaccinated people will still be hospitalized and die." What You Should Know About the Possibility of COVID-19 Illness After Vaccination | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html)
So far as I know, the CDC hasn't said outright that those fully vaccinated and subsequently hospitalized cannot spread the virus.

[golfing eagles]

Don't throw your mask away next winter - flu, coughs and colds at record lows this year everywhere because of masks. I'll be wearing one from Nov to April in future.

Interesting. Flu is being reported at a lower than average rate. Coughs and colds are not reportable so there is no way anyone knows if there are more or less than average.

Flu may be lower due to masks, or maybe because anything that can be reported as Covid is, or it may just be a lower than average flu season. There is no way to know.

But since it is likely that influenza viruses behave similar to coronaviruses as far as masks go, then the person wearing one is doing more to protect others than himself. So good luck wearing a mask from November through April, enjoy yourself.

[golfing eagles]

Oh boy, here we go again... :ohdear: In your own words: "Only 1 in 13,000 people who were fully vaccinated got COVID, and probably fewer than that could "pass it on"", followed by "stop posting that you can still get and pass on COVID if you are vaccinated"! Just a tad contradictory, don't ya' think??? .

Yep, here we go again. Yes, 0.008% is not zero. But it is so close to zero as to be irrelevant. (and don't give me any crap that it's relevant if YOU get it). Did you see where NASA estimated the chances of getting hit by a meteorite at about 4 times higher than a vaccinated person getting COVID????? Do you walk around looking at the sky???? Or live your life in a bomb shelter???? If not, why are you concerned that a vaccinated person will pass COVID to you. Plus, if you are vaccinated, the chances are now 0.008% x 0.008%, or is that not zero either?

[Joe C.]

Why do you bother with "meds and insulin?" :):duck::throwtomatoes: Meds I take control blood pressure. Insulin is for diabetes most likely contracted from drinking water contaminated with Agent Orange.

Neither condition has been politicized as the Covid-19 has. My diabetes doesn't put people out of work and doesn't pay people to stay home on phony unemployment.

Apples and oranges discussion.

[allsport]

The science of illnesses is always changing, for example prior to Flemming and the discovery of penicillin people died of small infections. Covid 19 is new and a mutating virus. Herd immunity is maybe 80% and in this country we are not there. It has taken decades to cure some kinds of cancer and even when the odds are high for cure, the cancer can mutate. It is an every changing process and you must listen to what CDC has to say now that the scientists are actually in control. In The Villages, we have a high number of people vaccinated but the constant turnover of unvaccinated visitors and workers make it a bit more risky. One of the docs this am said if you are fully vaccinated your chance of getting the virus is .0005%. That is very small and should make it acceptable not to wear a mask outside. Inside that is another manner if you do not know if everyone has been vaccinated. Follow the science and understand one simple thing to make your life more tolerable. The only certain thing in life is change, go with it.

[Bucco]

It's all about CONTROLLING THE PEOPLE. That's it. It's what the Dems want so they can change this country to communism.

BRAINWASHING check.

As a lifelong conservative member of the GOP, that kind of talk was banished years ago by the GOP, as too radical for a serious party.

[stanley]

I believe that vaccinations are good, but I also believe they should always be voluntary. Quit shaming those that are afraid and won't get theirs.

(you lost me at afraid)

I'll be out and about today, WITH friends from out of town. You will be able to ID us by the absence of masks on any of us. If that offends or frightens you, run for your home or just stay your distance. We probably won't notice you fleeing. You see, we have confidence that the vaccine they pushed on us actually works. I realize that we should not trust the advertising, but maybe we just wish for this to be over so we are easily convinced. Get your vaccinations and feel a little of this freedom too.

I'll be out and about today also...without a mask.....and no vaccination........and you won't be able to ID me as such......if that frightens anyone........well.............

[jimjamuser]

My opinion is that many Village People are like little children in a car on a LONG trip - "Are we there yet?" - "When is this damn CV thing over with" - "I am impatient" - "I will stomp my feet and whine"! Also, they like to think of everything as black or white - neglecting the fact that most things in life are shades of grey. This CV crisis has brought out both of these failings - impatience and rash or superficial judgment.

I was seeing the subject of that USA article coming from a mile away (or 7 months ago). Just by reading the daily TOTV threads and posts, one could see that there was going to be a large amount or % of the local area residents that were NOT, likely NOT, going to take the vaccine. I stated that we could likely end up in a disaster where CV could have been defeated, but was NOT. It is looking more and more like the NOTs (the know nots) will carry the day and control US society. Ignorance is prevailing over Science. Dr. Atlas is beating Dr. Fauci in this tag team match to the death of potentially ONE million US citizens!

Other English-speaking 1st world countries like Australia and New Zealand (and also Japan) had THEIR CV under control even before the vaccines were developed. They could do it with masks, distance inside, and co-operation and teamwork. The US can't finish the job on CV even with vaccines. What has become wrong with our country?????!!!!!!!

[jimjamuser]

If you've had your vaccinations and believe you are protected, why worry anymore if that person or that person may not have been vaccinated? Throw your mask away and enjoy life. Or are you not totally sold on the vaccinations actually working?
I answered that question in Post # 87 of yesterday's CV discussion. Please refer back one day.

[jimjamuser]

The virus is not logical, it takes advantage of mistakes we make.
And we make more than Japan or Switzerland.

[jimjamuser]

Unless we are blind, we have seen most of the experts n big shots not following their own guidelines and recommendations. What does that tell you?
That tells me.....a rationalization for not staying informed and deciding what is the RIGHT thing to do for the individual and for society.

[jimjamuser]

This is science—not religion. If you want dogma that doesn’t change with new facts, go to church.

The Scientific Method works because new information is used to refute or validate hypotheses (speculations). The hypotheses that survive scrutiny become well-tested theories.

A lot of the early guidance resulted from the experts being conservative because the virus was new and they were not certain how it worked. They tried to head off the selfish hoarders who would have bought up all the masks and left none for the heroes fighting in the trenches, so they discouraged mask use. These people are doing the best they can given the circumstances, so please cut them a little slack.

It didn’t help when anti-science leaders told the public to ignore the scientists. That made it much harder to fight the disease. Far fewer people would be dead and we would be closer to working our way back to normal if it hadn’t been for them.
True!

[Hedyg]

I had the virus in November 2019-I have been vaccinated. In my opinion a mask protects ME not someone else. I feel I am capable of making my own decision as to whether to wear a mask or to go to a particular place-really fed up with businesses requiring masks and trying to avoid them when I can, unfortunately it’s impossible to avoid shopping altogether.

[Byte1]

Meds I take control blood pressure. Insulin is for diabetes most likely contracted from drinking water contaminated with Agent Orange.

Neither condition has been politicized as the Covid-19 has. My diabetes doesn't put people out of work and doesn't pay people to stay home on phony unemployment.

Apples and oranges discussion.

I was being facetious. Joking about the list of stuff NOT taken but then the meds anyway. Sorry, I guess it did not go over very well.

I was sprayed three times with AO, but I am not diabetic...YET. Pretty healthy. My friends died from AO related cancer......supposedly....can't prove it, I guess. I don't get the flu shot and never had the flu and can't remember when I had a cold last. I do know it only lasted a couple days. Must have been about 10 year or so ago.

I wasn't going to get the vaccine, but since I had my spouse signed up, I went along with it. Glad I did because now I can forget to wear my mask and not feel guilty.

[jimjamuser]

Nice rant and even nicer tag line.

Do you know Tony Fauci?
Have you ever had dinner with him?
Have you ever conversed with him?

Bottom line----when it comes to Fauci, you have no idea what you are babbling about.

And when it comes to your immune system being "just fine" due to Vit C,D, zinc and mag, you are even more clueless.

Did you get your polio vaccine? Or did you take vitamins and argue with the experts?
Smallpox? Tetanus? Diphtheria? Pertussis? Or is it just the COVID vaccine that gets your undies in a bunch?
Best post ever - Mr. Eagles! That was soaring!

[jimjamuser]

From a strictly "who will and will not get ill or die" point of view, you are correct.
However, the government is responsible to ALL the people, including the anti-vaxers. So with your philosophy we'll all be wearing masks for a long time. Who will pay the bill for those who last 1 month in the ICU? Who will pay for medical care of the long-haulers?

And BTW, IT IS A VACCINE!!! I've posted the definition of a vaccine several times, so now you can go look it up for yourself
The Eagle has landed again - catching disoriented, disinformation in its claws!

[jimjamuser]

Because I get the flu, pneumonia, shingles shots doesn’t mean I won’t get those either.....once vaccinated, I choose to live my life without fear. We’ve had enough.....if you’re fearful, do what you want. It’s becoming more and more about control.
Not control, just empathetic people trying to fight a problem. And restore US quality of life!

[Swoop]

My opinion is that many Village People are like little children in a car on a LONG trip - "Are we there yet?" - "When is this damn CV thing over with" - "I am impatient" - "I will stomp my feet and whine"! Also, they like to think of everything as black or white - neglecting the fact that most things in life are shades of grey. This CV crisis has brought out both of these failings - impatience and rash or superficial judgment.

I was seeing the subject of that USA article coming from a mile away (or 7 months ago). Just by reading the daily TOTV threads and posts, one could see that there was going to be a large amount or % of the local area residents that were NOT, likely NOT, going to take the vaccine. I stated that we could likely end up in a disaster where CV could have been defeated, but was NOT. It is looking more and more like the NOTs (the know nots) will carry the day and control US society. Ignorance is prevailing over Science. Dr. Atlas is beating Dr. Fauci in this tag team match to the death of potentially ONE million US citizens!

Other English-speaking 1st world countries like Australia and New Zealand (and also Japan) had THEIR CV under control even before the vaccines were developed. They could do it with masks, distance inside, and co-operation and teamwork. The US can't finish the job on CV even with vaccines. What has become wrong with our country?????!!!!!!!
Those countries completely closed their borders and basically stopped their citizens from entering or leaving the country. On the other hand, we let anyone into our country, citizens or not...

[stanley]

Those countries completely closed their borders and basically stopped their citizens from entering or leaving the country. On the other hand, we let anyone into our country, citizens or not...

It doesn't look like that will end anytime soon either

[jimjamuser]

Don't throw your mask away next winter - flu, coughs and colds at record lows this year everywhere because of masks. I'll be wearing one from Nov to April in future.
True. And that shows that masks are effective. But, masks were not used in the past for colds and flu because the risk of hospitalization or DEATH was NOT as great as from CV. The future might hold a lot of mask-wearing.

[Aloha1]

We WILL achieve herd immunity one way or another. Either through vaccinations or those who refuse to get vaccinated getting Covid.

[Byte1]

Those countries completely closed their borders and basically stopped their citizens from entering or leaving the country. On the other hand, we let anyone into our country, citizens or not...

Totally agree with you.
To some folks, the grass will ALWAYS be better in another country. Maybe they should volunteer to take in a few covid infested illegal alien children to get a better perspective of just how great of a country we live in.

[Byte1]

We WILL achieve herd immunity one way or another. Either through vaccinations or those who refuse to get vaccinated getting Covid.

I really don't care how we do it as long as they do it behind the scenes and let the rest of us resume our NORMAL lives. They have had their fun and games with us, so its time for them to back off and let the lemmings run off the cliff while the rest of us just get back to our regular lifestyles.
Just remember that not everyone catches the flu that refuses the flu shot. I've refused it for 50 years and never had the flu. If I catch the flu in my twilight years, I guess it is my own fault. But, I accept the responsibility for it and do not blame others.

[jimjamuser]

Interesting. Flu is being reported at a lower than average rate. Coughs and colds are not reportable so there is no way anyone knows if there are more or less than average.

Flu may be lower due to masks, or maybe because anything that can be reported as Covid is, or it may just be a lower than average flu season. There is no way to know.

But since it is likely that influenza viruses behave similar to coronaviruses as far as masks go, then the person wearing one is doing more to protect others than himself. So good luck wearing a mask from November through April, enjoy yourself.
Not trying to be argumentive. But, Australia reported that their flu season was MUCH less. They stated that it was due to mask-wearing due to CV. Australia's Flu season was in our summer, so they were in a good position to have early research.

[graciegirl]

I really don't care how we do it as long as they do it behind the scenes and let the rest of us resume our NORMAL lives. They have had their fun and games with us, so its time for them to back off and let the lemmings run off the cliff while the rest of us just get back to our regular lifestyles.
Just remember that not everyone catches the flu that refuses the flu shot. I've refused it for 50 years and never had the flu. If I catch the flu in my twilight years, I guess it is my own fault. But, I accept the responsibility for it and do not blame others.

THIS is NOT the "flu". This is not the seasonal flu that makes people sick and is a little different every year. THIS is a killer of people who are OLDER. KILLER. ONE OUT OF TEN DIE....if they get it. If they are MY AGE.

[jimjamuser]

Those countries completely closed their borders and basically stopped their citizens from entering or leaving the country. On the other hand, we let anyone into our country, citizens or not...
True! And those countries did the RIGHT thing and protected their citizens. We, the US of A did the WRONG thing right from the get-go and HURT its citizens! I am just trying to point out areas of potential improvement that the US could have made during this Pandemic - because it is likely that other Pandemics will follow in the future. The globe is becoming smaller and more interdependent.

[golfing eagles]

Not trying to be argumentive. But, Australia reported that their flu season was MUCH less. They stated that it was due to mask-wearing due to CV. Australia's Flu season was in our summer, so they were in a good position to have early research.

No argument at all--it's certainly possible. But it's also possible it was due to other factors. No way to know for sure.

[jimjamuser]

We WILL achieve herd immunity one way or another. Either through vaccinations or those who refuse to get vaccinated getting Covid.
It may happen that way, but that USA article suggested that the CV problem could continue for years - with the spread jumping from one area of the US to another. In rural Idaho, they have ONLY a 25% vaccination rate. There are many variables. Herd immunity is NOT guaranteed!

[golfing eagles]

I had the virus in November 2019-I have been vaccinated. In my opinion a mask protects ME not someone else. I feel I am capable of making my own decision as to whether to wear a mask or to go to a particular place-really fed up with businesses requiring masks and trying to avoid them when I can, unfortunately it’s impossible to avoid shopping altogether.

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

[jimjamuser]

No argument at all--it's certainly possible. But it's also possible it was due to other factors. No way to know for sure.
Possibly a sophisticated mathematical regression analysis could isolate the MOST likely variable?

[Pat2015]

Some people have none of the above, so they have to be led by the nose whether it's a green light red light on the street corner or someone on TV telling them to wear masks. It's common sense to continue to wear your mask. It's common sense to take the vaccine if it's available to you even if only 5% of 5% of 5% can still get infected or pass it on to somebody else wouldn't be there the right thing to keep wearing a mask so you don't get infect someone else or get it from someone else. Why do these things bother you so much. Just relax and enjoy life as best as you can. It doesn't matter who's in charge, I believe both sides are trying to do their best as far as this horrible disease goes. I don't blame anybody and I don't give anyone credit for dealing anything better than the next guy because life just happens. Unfortunately people are dead and it has ruined a lot of people's livelihoods but my neighbors certainly didn't do anything bad and my family didn't do anything bad. Just continue to have faith wear a mask is probably another year or two or more and be thankful you're not in a hospital suffering. Like I said common sense and if you don't like what they're saying turn off the darn TV and stop reading those internet comments
Wear a mask for another year or two after being fully vaccinated, and with most of the US population having the ability to be vaccinated by the summer? Is this a serious post?

[golfing eagles]

Possibly a sophisticated mathematical regression analysis could isolate the MOST likely variable?

Maybe, but probably the best you could get is a 70-80% probability, meanwhile, there are posters on this thread who think 0.008% isn't good enough. :1rotfl:

[roscoguy]

Yep, here we go again. Yes, 0.008% is not zero. But it is so close to zero as to be irrelevant. (and don't give me any crap that it's relevant if YOU get it). Did you see where NASA estimated the chances of getting hit by a meteorite at about 4 times higher than a vaccinated person getting COVID????? Do you walk around looking at the sky???? Or live your life in a bomb shelter???? If not, why are you concerned that a vaccinated person will pass COVID to you. Plus, if you are vaccinated, the chances are now 0.008% x 0.008%, or is that not zero either?

Well, first off 1 in 13,000 definitely is a small percentage, but not irrelevant. Second, the quote from the CDC said, "It is important to note that reported vaccine breakthrough cases will represent an undercount." so that's not exactly a number you can bank on at the moment.
Then the NASA thing - I was going to pass on that post, but since you brought it up... That's a ludicrous number: it implies that 1 in 3000 people will be hit (or have been hit! :shocked:) by a meteorite during their lifetime??? :1rotfl::1rotfl: That's really funny since, as of 2016, there's only ONE person confirmed to have been struck by a meteorite in history, according to National Geographic. (Warning: you may have to create an account to view the article.) The True Story of History'''s Only Known Meteorite Victim (https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/130220-russia-meteorite-ann-hodges-science-space-hit)
And that's not crap either. :rolleyes: Unlike the "0.008% x 0.008%" idea, which is not really founded in math, science or facts, just throwing around some numbers.

[golfing eagles]

Well, first off 1 in 13,000 definitely is a small percentage, but not irrelevant. Second, the quote from the CDC said, "It is important to note that reported vaccine breakthrough cases will represent an undercount." so that's not exactly a number you can bank on at the moment.
Then the NASA thing - I was going to pass on that post, but since you brought it up... That's a ludicrous number: it implies that 1 in 3000 people will be hit (or have been hit! :shocked:) by a meteorite during their lifetime??? :1rotfl::1rotfl: That's really funny since, as of 2016, there's only ONE person confirmed to have been struck by a meteorite in history, according to National Geographic. (Warning: you may have to create an account to view the article.) The True Story of History'''s Only Known Meteorite Victim (https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/130220-russia-meteorite-ann-hodges-science-space-hit)
And that's not crap either. :rolleyes: Unlike the "0.008% x 0.008%" idea, which is not really founded in math, science or facts, just throwing around some numbers.

In all fairness, I didn't believe that 1 in 3000 number either (But since it was on the internet it must be true:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:). But you really shouldn't hide under your bed for the 1 in13,000 that might spread COVID

[Ptmckiou]

I don’t understand the frustration. I follow what the CDC has on its website....not talking heads, or any politician. They have been very consistent with their information, as their knowledge of the virus expands.

Being a new form of SARS, science has to be fluid as it gains knowledge. Understandable. Right now anyone vaccinated, in a group of everyone else vaccinated, doesn’t need to wear a mask. We will never reach herd immunity, unless 75% of people get vaccinated. What happens below 75%, is giving an abundance of “food” (unvaccinated) to the virus which increases the risk of variants of the virus forming that have out smarted the current vaccine. We want to keep that food level down, which lowers the risk....but, that includes the entire world of unvaccinated, not just USA.

[jimjamuser]

Wear a mask for another year or two after being fully vaccinated, and with most of the US population having the ability to be vaccinated by the summer? Is this a serious post?
Another case of "are we there yet?". No one KNOWS the future, so no one knows if we are there yet. It all depends on the number (or %) of the vaccine-hesitate-types here in TV Land and around the country. In rural Idaho, ONLY 25% are vaccinated., That IS who to blame if we still have a Pandemic problem 2 or MORE years from today. No one can tell you the future with absolute certainty. Expecting that is like a canine chasing its tail!

[jimjamuser]

Maybe, but probably the best you could get is a 70-80% probability, meanwhile, there are posters on this thread who think 0.008% isn't good enough. :1rotfl:
True that!

[jimjamuser]

I don’t understand the frustration. I follow what the CDC has on its website....not talking heads, or any politician. They have been very consistent with their information, as their knowledge of the virus expands.

Being a new form of SARS, science has to be fluid as it gains knowledge. Understandable. Right now anyone vaccinated, in a group of everyone else vaccinated, doesn’t need to wear a mask. We will never reach herd immunity, unless 75% of people get vaccinated. What happens below 75%, is giving an abundance of “food” (unvaccinated) to the virus which increases the risk of variants of the virus forming that have out smarted the current vaccine. We want to keep that food level down, which lowers the risk....but, that includes the entire world of unvaccinated, not just USA.
Wearing a mask inside with a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated people makes sense to me because indoors has 15 times the spread compared to outdoors ( that makes me wonder about schools and older school children). I will wear a mask indoors as long as the CDC, DR. Fauci, and our current President say that it IS a good idea. I will do this because in this regard - I am a "do-gooder". They model good behavior for me and I model good behavior for my peers.

But, it is MORE than that. Right now only about 1/2 of the country has at least 1 shot. And there are anti-vaxxers and many young people that are reluctant to get their shot. I am lucky to have mine, but some may want a shot and NOT yet have one. I owe it to them to be a reminder that this thing IS not HISTORY yet. Vaccine hesitant people might NEED that extra push. If unvaccinated they could be saving their life and others by wearing a mask and being empathetic to others. Plus, if the spread among unvaccinated people is great, then variants could evolve that threaten everyone that is already vaccinated. Think of THAT cost in terms of suffering, lives lost, and even US taxpayer money wasted. I will do MY part!

[Byte1]

THIS is NOT the "flu". This is not the seasonal flu that makes people sick and is a little different every year. THIS is a killer of people who are OLDER. KILLER. ONE OUT OF TEN DIE....if they get it. If they are MY AGE.

Tell that to the 250,000 Americans' that died of the flu in the past 8 years, families. I doubt they would say that the flu is not dangerous. I don't dispute the fact that Covid is dangerous. But, I don't believe that I downplayed the seriousness of it either. I have encouraged everyone to get the vaccination, for their own safety. I also respect the right of others to make their own decision without mandates and restrictions imposed on the masses. I understand that there are some that are scared, but it appears that leadership is exploiting that fear, too.

[Byte1]

True. And that shows that masks are effective. But, masks were not used in the past for colds and flu because the risk of hospitalization or DEATH was NOT as great as from CV. The future might hold a lot of mask-wearing.

Once vaccinated, there is less possibility of being hospitalized for covid than the flu. Therefore, I see no reason to wear a mask any more than I would during flu season. You make a compelling argument for abandoning the mask mandates that are still being imposed in many areas of the country.

[roscoguy]

In all fairness, I didn't believe that 1 in 3000 number either (But since it was on the internet it must be true:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:). But you really shouldn't hide under your bed for the 1 in13,000 that might spread COVID

We're 100% in agreement here. Hey, how's that for finding common ground? :thumbup:

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Possibly a sophisticated mathematical regression analysis could isolate the MOST likely variable?

The problem is clean data, always. The software and people who can perform the math and the programming are everywhere around the world, using either python or R, and are doing this every day, its called medical research.

But collecting, making the data clean enough for statistical research, and having all the correct data, is nearly impossible without long highly controlled studies where all variables are able to be isolated and controlled and measured.

With an airborne communicable disease, about as difficult as a villager who plays golf everyday qualifying for the champions tour. Just think about modern medicine today and "modern medicine" 200+ years ago.

The other observation about today's world and pandemic: observe how difficult it is to manage the world's population with just information. and the ability of foreign actors to pray on the human foibles of survival processing information with disinformation and other information destabilization techniques. . .

This pandemic and the world responses are the most interesting study in mass and human psychology in modern times. fascinating. . .

psy guy

[coffeebean]

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

Well, to be fair to that poster you replied to, the type of mask was not mentioned. If the poster uses an N95 or equivalent mask, then, yes, the mask protects him/her when worn properly. Anything other than that type of mask, then agree with you GE, that their opinion was wrong.

[coffeebean]

Wear a mask for another year or two after being fully vaccinated, and with most of the US population having the ability to be vaccinated by the summer? Is this a serious post?

I have always been a very strong proponent of universal masking and even I think that post was off the wall. I will not be wearing a mask routinely when I'm out and about in two years, let alone one year. I can guarantee you that!

Who ever is not getting vaccinated by then, well, sorry, they are on their own. The folks who can not receive the vaccine for medical issues will have to do everything they can to protect themselves. That is what N95 masks are for and those vulverable un-vaccinated folks would be prudent to wear one of those masks when everyone else is going about their business in this world maskless.

[oldtimes]

getting vaccinated seems pretty pointless to me if you still have to social distance and wear a mask

[Byte1]

getting vaccinated seems pretty pointless to me if you still have to social distance and wear a mask

I agree. I do not think that the "Experts" are using good sense by telling everyone to get vaccinated and then tell them that they must continue to act the same as they did before vaccinated, as for protecting themselves. It certainly won't encourage folks to get a booster shot. If they tell you to wear a mask at all times for the next six months and then tell you that you should get another shot and possibly go through the side effects again, for what seems like nothing....I wonder how many will pass on the booster. Whether someone agrees with the premise or not, the idea is sure to float in some folks' minds. I don't think that the information coming from the "Experts" is the problem, but the LACK of information that should be coming from them is the problem.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Seems pretty sensible to me. You can't snap your fingers and suddenly, spontaneously, instantly 80% of the population is appropriately vaccinated. That takes awhile. Especially in areas where vaccines are still not available to 80% of the population. So you vaccinate, and continue to social distance and/or mask inside buildings that aren't your own, until 80% of the population has been vaccinated. At that point, you can assume herd immunity has kicked in, and everyone's good to go.

Why does anyone have an actual problem with that?

[Bucco]

Seems pretty sensible to me. You can't snap your fingers and suddenly, spontaneously, instantly 80% of the population is appropriately vaccinated. That takes awhile. Especially in areas where vaccines are still not available to 80% of the population. So you vaccinate, and continue to social distance and/or mask inside buildings that aren't your own, until 80% of the population has been vaccinated. At that point, you can assume herd immunity has kicked in, and everyone's good to go.

Why does anyone have an actual problem with that?

Which by the way was the message in the link provided by the OP....not what is being discussed.

[Aces4]

Seems pretty sensible to me. You can't snap your fingers and suddenly, spontaneously, instantly 80% of the population is appropriately vaccinated. That takes awhile. Especially in areas where vaccines are still not available to 80% of the population. So you vaccinate, and continue to social distance and/or mask inside buildings that aren't your own, until 80% of the population has been vaccinated. At that point, you can assume herd immunity has kicked in, and everyone's good to go.

Why does anyone have an actual problem with that?


I tell you the problem with that... if you step out and listen you will know that there is no way 80% of the population will be vaccinated unless a very undesirable form of government evolves and people are vaccinated at gun point.

[oldtimes]

Seems pretty sensible to me. You can't snap your fingers and suddenly, spontaneously, instantly 80% of the population is appropriately vaccinated. That takes awhile. Especially in areas where vaccines are still not available to 80% of the population. So you vaccinate, and continue to social distance and/or mask inside buildings that aren't your own, until 80% of the population has been vaccinated. At that point, you can assume herd immunity has kicked in, and everyone's good to go.

Why does anyone have an actual problem with that?

So 80% of the population has to be vaccinated? How about 79%? Or maybe we need 81%. I don't believe that anyone actually knows when herd immunity kicks in if ever. So yes I have a problem with it.

[Aloha1]

I really don't care how we do it as long as they do it behind the scenes and let the rest of us resume our NORMAL lives. They have had their fun and games with us, so its time for them to back off and let the lemmings run off the cliff while the rest of us just get back to our regular lifestyles.
Just remember that not everyone catches the flu that refuses the flu shot. I've refused it for 50 years and never had the flu. If I catch the flu in my twilight years, I guess it is my own fault. But, I accept the responsibility for it and do not blame others.

Gotta watch those pesky Lemmings. Look what happened last November.

[Aloha1]

It may happen that way, but that USA article suggested that the CV problem could continue for years - with the spread jumping from one area of the US to another. In rural Idaho, they have ONLY a 25% vaccination rate. There are many variables. Herd immunity is NOT guaranteed!

A virus dies when it runs out of hosts. The more people who are vaccinated or contract Covid, the less population to infect remains. If those unaffected are in distance separated small pockets, the harder it becomes for the virus to expand. Herd Immunity will come just as it has for many other diseases.

[Boffin]

And there I was

[Bay Kid]

Getting vaccinated is kind of like my Granddaughters school that had one child, 11 years old, allergic to peanut butter, so the entire school was banded from having peanut butter. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

[coffeebean]

getting vaccinated seems pretty pointless to me if you still have to social distance and wear a mask

I see where you are coming from but I also see it from another POV. I'm in the vulnerable age group that does not guarantee I would be asymptomatic or have mild symptoms if I contracted Covid. In other words, it is very possible I could die if I caught Covid. Having been vaccinated, that worry is no longer on my mind at all. If I contracted the virus, I am guaranteed to either have no or only mild symptoms of the disease. I'm so happy to have that piece of mind. Dying from Covid is not on my hit parade.

[coffeebean]

I agree. I do not think that the "Experts" are using good sense by telling everyone to get vaccinated and then tell them that they must continue to act the same as they did before vaccinated, as for protecting themselves. It certainly won't encourage folks to get a booster shot. If they tell you to wear a mask at all times for the next six months and then tell you that you should get another shot and possibly go through the side effects again, for what seems like nothing....I wonder how many will pass on the booster. Whether someone agrees with the premise or not, the idea is sure to float in some folks' minds. I don't think that the information coming from the "Experts" is the problem, but the LACK of information that should be coming from them is the problem.

What side effects are you referring to? A fever? Body aches? All that last a day or two? What are we becoming, a bunch of wimps? For crying out loud, those "side effects" sure beat having to rely on a respirator to breathe.

[coffeebean]

Seems pretty sensible to me. You can't snap your fingers and suddenly, spontaneously, instantly 80% of the population is appropriately vaccinated. That takes awhile. Especially in areas where vaccines are still not available to 80% of the population. So you vaccinate, and continue to social distance and/or mask inside buildings that aren't your own, until 80% of the population has been vaccinated. At that point, you can assume herd immunity has kicked in, and everyone's good to go.

Why does anyone have an actual problem with that?

OBB...... what are your feelings if we do not reach that very valuable safe herd immunity because of those folks who are vaccine hesitant and the folks who are out and out anti-vaxxers? I will have a very difficult time masking when these folks do nothing to help themselves for protection. That is when my mask comes off, herd immunity or not. If they won't help themselves, I'm not going to either. How do you feel about that?

[Byte1]

What side effects are you referring to? A fever? Body aches? All that last a day or two? What are we becoming, a bunch of wimps? For crying out loud, those "side effects" sure beat having to rely on a respirator to breathe.

That wasn't the point. The point was regarding whether or not folks will get the booster shot, IF they have to continue to wear a mask. The idea is "WHY" go to the trouble of getting the shots if it won't allow you to return to normal? Sure, eventually things will get better, but those that are hesitant about getting the two shots now, are certainly going to be hesitant about getting a booster if nothing changes for the better. What incentive is there? I know what you are going to say, but I inserted the rhetorical question anyway. "Wimp?" I see what you are saying, but some folks do not see the need to go through the flu-like symptoms that some get from the vaccination, if they MUST protect themselves as they did for the last year and a half before they received the shots.

[Byte1]

OBB...... what are your feelings if we do not reach that very valuable safe herd immunity because of those folks who are vaccine hesitant and the folks who are out and out anti-vaxxers? I will have a very difficult time masking when these folks do nothing to help themselves for protection. That is when my mask comes off, herd immunity or not. If they won't help themselves, I'm not going to either. How do you feel about that?

I agree. I feel the same way with being told to get the vaccination because it is a must, patriotic, moral, ethical, etc. and then after getting the shot being told that I must continue to wear the mask in order to protect others. If they tell me that I must get a booster, then the mask comes off for good, period.
Protect yourselves. It's not your obligation to protect those that do not want to protect themselves.

[coffeebean]

That wasn't the point. The point was regarding whether or not folks will get the booster shot, IF they have to continue to wear a mask. The idea is "WHY" go to the trouble of getting the shots if it won't allow you to return to normal? Sure, eventually things will get better, but those that are hesitant about getting the two shots now, are certainly going to be hesitant about getting a booster if nothing changes for the better. What incentive is there? I know what you are going to say, but I inserted the rhetorical question anyway. "Wimp?" I see what you are saying, but some folks do not see the need to go through the flu-like symptoms that some get from the vaccination, if they MUST protect themselves as they did for the last year and a half before they received the shots.
I see your point and I have "heard" this same mantra on the cruise forums that I read as well. I certainly want to see the vaccinated population given the ability to traverse life normally. Don't we all? Those hesitant do need an incentive, but shouldn't the chance of severe illness or dying from Covid being extremely low be considered an incentive? I think it should but I guess there is still many people who do not.

[Byte1]

I see your point and I have "heard" this same mantra on the cruise forums that I read as well. I certainly want to see the vaccinated population given the ability to traverse life normally. Don't we all? Those hesitant do need an incentive, but shouldn't the chance of severe illness or dying from Covid being extremely low be considered an incentive? I think it should but I guess there is still many people who do not.

That is also the point. Some feel that the vaccine must be useless if the Gov does not have enough confidence in it that they still want everyone to continue to wear the masks. After all, the idea of a vaccination is to give one immunity. Whether I believe or not is not the point. The point is how do you convince others to get the booster if they are hesitant already to get the first two shots, see the side effects that may have to be endured, and then told to continue to wear the masks. Masks that they had already worn for a year. Masks that supposedly prevented them from becoming infected. Masks that must be continued, even after being inoculated. You can use all kinds of reasoning, but if that reasoning is like a dog that don't hunt, then it won't be accepted. Inoculations have already become fewer with the new ages allowed now. The younger generation is saying "why bother when we can get over it as easy as a cold." My daughter had Covid and now tells me that she is not going to get the shots. Same with other young folks I have talked to. I know that at least half of my family that have already survived Covid are refusing the vaccination. And believe me, I have been attempting to convince them to get it. But, I can understand their reasoning.

[oldtimes]

I see your point and I have "heard" this same mantra on the cruise forums that I read as well. I certainly want to see the vaccinated population given the ability to traverse life normally. Don't we all? Those hesitant do need an incentive, but shouldn't the chance of severe illness or dying from Covid being extremely low be considered an incentive? I think it should but I guess there is still many people who do not.

The problem is what the OP posted. There have been so many mixed, incorrect and changed messages that I really don’t believe anything they say anymore. I got my shot and now I am just done. Let the chips fall where they may.

[DeanFL]

.
.
FINALLY! Perhaps some 'common sense'...
I would bet that public pressure and pushback from the continual draconian measures dictated by Fauci and CDC...

News>

Fauci acknowledges outdoor COVID-19 transmission 'low,' expects updated mask guidance
Fauci said the risk for infection in an outdoor setting is 'minuscule'

Dr. Anthony Fauci believes the Centers for Disease Control will soon provide updated COVID-19 guidance on using face masks in outdoor settings, calling it "common sense" to do so.

Face masks have taken an increasingly central role in debate lately as many question the continued and widespread use of masks even as vaccinations continue to soar nationwide. A Georgia mother went viral this week after she sounded off on her local school board continuing its mask mandate through next year.Fauci agrees with some of that thought, saying that the risk for people engaging in outdoor activities is "minuscule," especially for vaccinated individuals.
"What I believe you’re going to be hearing, what the country is going to be hearing soon, is updated guidelines from the CDC," Fauci told ABC’s "This Week." "The CDC is a science-based organization. They don’t want to make any guidelines unless they look at the data and the data backs it up."

"But when you look around at the common sense situation, the risk is really low, especially if you’re vaccinated," he said.

[Northwoods]

I'm with you there. If there's a sign, 'Mask Required', I wear one. If it's only recommended, I don't.

I'm following our governor's advice. If you've been vaccinated you're immune. Act like it.

I'm just waiting to hear from Pete Buttigieg that wearing a mask is infrastructure......

That made me laugh out loud.

[Pairadocs]

[QUOTE=DeanFL;1932587].
.
[I]We are SO DONE with the continual (for well over one year now) mis-information / misleading / no information / changing information from the so-called "EXPERTS".


I could not agree with you more ! Have always characterized myself as a patient, very analytical type, tend to research and look into every detail, such as how a so called "research study" is set up, what standard deviation of error was used, what were the variables, what were the control, in short, a kind of research "geek" I guess, but once I started digging deeper and deeper into the hard to find details of how deeply involved Fauci was in the gain of function research, the whole dangerous virus research: defending it, supporting it, and even participating in it.... that really did me in on this nation wide Fauci worship. Even had well educated friends say "Oh, but you must know, he is THE expert of the WORLD", I could only say, dig in to the whole story of his self promotion, his involvement, his political activities.... then let's discuss it again when you have looked into it as deeply as when we were active in our own careers involving research !

[Pairadocs]

That made me laugh out loud.

That's the greatest laugh yet... love it ! Right up there with our president, one of the first to be vaccinated. and wears a mask, alone, in his own home studio for a zoom meeting, so hard not to laugh and disparage someone we all should admire, our president, but difficult to understand that kind of leadership while he's trying to demonstrate why some cultural groups are resisting vaccination... not very good leadership and not a good look, sad, I am not strongly party driven, but do admire true leadership qualities of individuals of either party, don't see much of that right now !

[Pairadocs]

That is also the point. Some feel that the vaccine must be useless if the Gov does not have enough confidence in it that they still want everyone to continue to wear the masks. After all, the idea of a vaccination is to give one immunity. Whether I believe or not is not the point. The point is how do you convince others to get the booster if they are hesitant already to get the first two shots, see the side effects that may have to be endured, and then told to continue to wear the masks. Masks that they had already worn for a year. Masks that supposedly prevented them from becoming infected. Masks that must be continued, even after being inoculated. You can use all kinds of reasoning, but if that reasoning is like a dog that don't hunt, then it won't be accepted. Inoculations have already become fewer with the new ages allowed now. The younger generation is saying "why bother when we can get over it as easy as a cold." My daughter had Covid and now tells me that she is not going to get the shots. Same with other young folks I have talked to. I know that at least half of my family that have already survived Covid are refusing the vaccination. And believe me, I have been attempting to convince them to get it. But, I can understand their reasoning.

Do people realize several renown doctors, MD/PhD, from Stanford, from The John's Hopkins, are agreement that it is NOT wise for people who have had Covid-19 to take the vaccine. They may be wise to listen and do their own research !

[Tmarkwald]

Exactly

Bingo

[Tmarkwald]

Do people realize several renown doctors, MD/PhD, from Stanford, from The John's Hopkins, are agreement that it is NOT wise for people who have had Covid-19 to take the vaccine. They may be wise to listen and do their own research !

Not sure what Johns Hopkins you are referring to.. Here's the actual info from Johns Hopkins and others...

Should people who recovered from Covid get vaccinated? (https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/should-people-who-recovered-covid-get-vaccinated-n1249766)

"The general recommendation is to get the vaccine, even if you were previously infected," said Dr. David Thomas, a professor of medicine and director of the infectious diseases division at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

Should you get vaccinated if you recovered from Covid? Expert advice (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/05/should-you-get-vaccinated-if-you-recovered-from-covid-expert-advice.html)

Due to the severe health risks associated with Covid-19 and the fact that reinfection with Covid-19 is possible, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had Covid-19 infection

Who should and shouldn’t get the COVID-19 vaccine?
| Yale Health (https://yalehealth.yale.edu/yale-covid-19-vaccine-program/who-should-and-shouldnt-get-covid-19-vaccine)

...even those who previously had COVID-19 can and should receive the COVID-19 vaccine.

Frequently Asked Questions about COVID-19 Vaccination | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html)

Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19.

[coffeebean]

Not sure what Johns Hopkins you are referring to.. Here's the actual info from Johns Hopkins and others...

Should people who recovered from Covid get vaccinated? (https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/should-people-who-recovered-covid-get-vaccinated-n1249766)

"The general recommendation is to get the vaccine, even if you were previously infected," said Dr. David Thomas, a professor of medicine and director of the infectious diseases division at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

Should you get vaccinated if you recovered from Covid? Expert advice (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/05/should-you-get-vaccinated-if-you-recovered-from-covid-expert-advice.html)

Due to the severe health risks associated with Covid-19 and the fact that reinfection with Covid-19 is possible, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had Covid-19 infection

Who should and shouldn’t get the COVID-19 vaccine?
| Yale Health (https://yalehealth.yale.edu/yale-covid-19-vaccine-program/who-should-and-shouldnt-get-covid-19-vaccine)

...even those who previously had COVID-19 can and should receive the COVID-19 vaccine.

Frequently Asked Questions about COVID-19 Vaccination | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html)

Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19.

Thanks for debunking those conspiracy theories. Two thumbs up.

[Gulfcoast]

The experts have never communicated about this virus in a way that I would consider to be normal. The no mask/homemade mask/double homemade mask thing never made much sense. They closed down medical offices, made people terrified of going to the hospital at all and then gave only the vaguest of information regarding how to treat the virus at home. Add in the mixed and varied messages about children/schools/distance learning, as well as, the arbitrary closures and strange concerns about masking up outside...

It's been a mixed up, wacko, mumbo jumbo of a mess. In terms of keeping the elderly safe, some states like Florida got it right by using simple decency and common sense. Other states....did not get it right to put it mildly.

I'm glad that there is a vaccine now. Hopefully we can start to move beyond this.

[jimjamuser]

That is also the point. Some feel that the vaccine must be useless if the Gov does not have enough confidence in it that they still want everyone to continue to wear the masks. After all, the idea of a vaccination is to give one immunity. Whether I believe or not is not the point. The point is how do you convince others to get the booster if they are hesitant already to get the first two shots, see the side effects that may have to be endured, and then told to continue to wear the masks. Masks that they had already worn for a year. Masks that supposedly prevented them from becoming infected. Masks that must be continued, even after being inoculated. You can use all kinds of reasoning, but if that reasoning is like a dog that don't hunt, then it won't be accepted. Inoculations have already become fewer with the new ages allowed now. The younger generation is saying "why bother when we can get over it as easy as a cold." My daughter had Covid and now tells me that she is not going to get the shots. Same with other young folks I have talked to. I know that at least half of my family that have already survived Covid are refusing the vaccination. And believe me, I have been attempting to convince them to get it. But, I can understand their reasoning.
Some of WHO ????? "believe that the vaccine is useless". Only the useless would believe that the vaccine is useless. It has been PROVEN under exhaustive TRIALS to NOT be useless. It prevents DEATH in 100% of all trial cases and all known cases after trial. The vaccines let you live! The only greater guarantee would be if GOD herself or himself signed a written guarantee personally!!!!!!

As to - " the younger generation is saying why bother?" That is NOT true either! In Houston, Texas Doctors are finding that many cases are for the under 50 people lately - probably new variants. 2-year-old babies have died from CV. 100 Universities so far are requiring vaccine certification to return to in-person classes. I never understand the motivation for spreading misinformation about a deadly disease. What will Jesus think about that at the pearly gates??????

[Byte1]

Some of WHO ????? "believe that the vaccine is useless". Only the useless would believe that the vaccine is useless. It has been PROVEN under exhaustive TRIALS to NOT be useless. It prevents DEATH in 100% of all trial cases and all known cases after trial. The vaccines let you live! The only greater guarantee would be if GOD herself or himself signed a written guarantee personally!!!!!!

As to - " the younger generation is saying why bother?" That is NOT true either! In Houston, Texas Doctors are finding that many cases are for the under 50 people lately - probably new variants. 2-year-old babies have died from CV. 100 Universities so far are requiring vaccine certification to return to in-person classes. I never understand the motivation for spreading misinformation about a deadly disease. What will Jesus think about that at the pearly gates??????

Perhaps SOME folks do not know any of the younger generation. Perhaps SOME folks think their OPINION is more valid than others and therefore accuse others of being "useless" for having their own opinion.
FACT: PA has a surplus of vaccine that may be destroyed because they cannot get folks to accept the FREE shots being given away. Just one point of evidence.
Interesting how some folks attempt to appeal to others by using a lack of religious knowledge in a desperate attempt to convince a weak argument.

[tuccillo]

Not exactly true. According to the CDC, about 1% of breakthroughs have resulted in death (based on 95 million full vaccinations). The good news is that it is 1% of an already very low number (0.008% of fully vaccinated people were breakthroughs, probably underreported however). Really amazing numbers.

COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html)

Some of WHO ????? "believe that the vaccine is useless". Only the useless would believe that the vaccine is useless. It has been PROVEN under exhaustive TRIALS to NOT be useless. It prevents DEATH in 100% of all trial cases and all known cases after trial. The vaccines let you live! The only greater guarantee would be if GOD herself or himself signed a written guarantee personally!!!!!!

As to - " the younger generation is saying why bother?" That is NOT true either! In Houston, Texas Doctors are finding that many cases are for the under 50 people lately - probably new variants. 2-year-old babies have died from CV. 100 Universities so far are requiring vaccine certification to return to in-person classes. I never understand the motivation for spreading misinformation about a deadly disease. What will Jesus think about that at the pearly gates??????

[jimjamuser]

.
.
FINALLY! Perhaps some 'common sense'...
I would bet that public pressure and pushback from the continual draconian measures dictated by Fauci and CDC...

News>

Fauci acknowledges outdoor COVID-19 transmission 'low,' expects updated mask guidance
Fauci said the risk for infection in an outdoor setting is 'minuscule'

Dr. Anthony Fauci believes the Centers for Disease Control will soon provide updated COVID-19 guidance on using face masks in outdoor settings, calling it "common sense" to do so.

Face masks have taken an increasingly central role in debate lately as many question the continued and widespread use of masks even as vaccinations continue to soar nationwide. A Georgia mother went viral this week after she sounded off on her local school board continuing its mask mandate through next year.Fauci agrees with some of that thought, saying that the risk for people engaging in outdoor activities is "minuscule," especially for vaccinated individuals.
"What I believe you’re going to be hearing, what the country is going to be hearing soon, is updated guidelines from the CDC," Fauci told ABC’s "This Week." "The CDC is a science-based organization. They don’t want to make any guidelines unless they look at the data and the data backs it up."

"But when you look around at the common sense situation, the risk is really low, especially if you’re vaccinated," he said.
Hey, Dr. Fauci is my GOD! Be nice!

[jimjamuser]

Perhaps SOME folks do not know any of the younger generation. Perhaps SOME folks think their OPINION is more valid than others and therefore accuse others of being "useless" for having their own opinion.
FACT: PA has a surplus of vaccine that may be destroyed because they cannot get folks to accept the FREE shots being given away. Just one point of evidence.
Interesting how some folks attempt to appeal to others by using a lack of religious knowledge in a desperate attempt to convince a weak argument.
An argument is NOT a person - therefore you can NOT "convince an argument"???????

[jimjamuser]

Not exactly true. According to the CDC, about 1% of breakthroughs have resulted in death (based on 95 million full vaccinations). The good news is that it is 1% of an already very low number (0.008% of fully vaccinated people were breakthroughs, probably underreported however). Really amazing numbers.

COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html)
OK, I rounded up a little. I doubt that I get sued.

[stanley]

Hey, Dr. Fauci is my GOD! Be nice!

What would Jesus say?

[tuccillo]

Not rounding, just wrong. Yep, you won't be sued.

OK, I rounded up a little. I doubt that I get sued.

[MDLNB]

What would Jesus say?


:boom: :boom: and :boom:

[MDLNB]

Not rounding, just wrong. Yep, you won't be sued.


Drop the mic on that one!! :boom:

[MDLNB]

An argument is NOT a person - therefore you can NOT "convince an argument"???????


Interesting how you diverted that one. I am sure some of us would disagree.

[MDLNB]

Hey, Dr. Fauci is my GOD! Be nice!


My GOD can perform miracles. When is the last time fauci even healed someone? He's about 50 years out of "practice" I believe. Not to disparage the lil guy, but if you are giving him your faith as Divinity, then I believe that you are in for an unpleasant surprise in the future.

[jimjamuser]

Interesting how you diverted that one. I am sure some of us would disagree.
Just trying to be helpful with the English syntax!

[Bay Kid]

My GOD can perform miracles. When is the last time fauci even healed someone? He's about 50 years out of "practice" I believe. Not to disparage the lil guy, but if you are giving him your faith as Divinity, then I believe that you are in for an unpleasant surprise in the future.

Fauci is an overpaid pollical pawn, used to control the people.

[rustyp]

Hey, Dr. Fauci is my GOD! Be nice!

What would Jesus say?


Is that you Dad ?

[DeanFL]

.
.
for the youngsters...
.

[GrumpyOldMan]

If you've had your vaccinations and believe you are protected, why worry anymore if that person or that person may not have been vaccinated? Throw your mask away and enjoy life. Or are you not totally sold on the vaccinations actually working?

The "moving target" is normal science. It is how science works. It makes recommendations based on the best available information and when the information changes the advice changes.

Why worry?

Because some of us care about what happens to other people as a result of our personal choices and actions.

Because some of us care about our country and getting it back to work., and are willing to take a minimal risk to do our part to help.

Because some of us prefer to rely on the advice of experts in the field when making life or death decisions.

Lots of reasons, to worry. Especially since so many Americans feel compelled to argue about everything, and ignore science.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

What would jesus say? Well if I've learned anything from the new testament and the lessons it teaches about morality, ethics, spreading lies and manipulating facts in order to get a world's savior murdered...

I think jesus would say:

"forgive them for they know not what they do."

and at the same time, he would say "god why hast thou forsaken me?"

and he would also be thinking, "ffs smh"

[Bucco]

What would jesus say? Well if I've learned anything from the new testament and the lessons it teaches about morality, ethics, spreading lies and manipulating facts in order to get a world's savior murdered...

I think jesus would say:

"forgive them for they know not what they do."

and at the same time, he would say "god why hast thou forsaken me?"

and he would also be thinking, "ffs smh"

Ok, I will gladly, as always, show my lack of intelligence...

What does "ffs smh" indicate ?

Just got a PM with an explanation. I got it and agree. Wondered how he handles the liars when they consistently say its them being picked on or refers HIM to a website of a questionable nature !

[Tmarkwald]

What would jesus say? Well if I've learned anything from the new testament and the lessons it teaches about morality, ethics, spreading lies and manipulating facts in order to get a world's savior murdered...

I think jesus would say:

"forgive them for they know not what they do."

and at the same time, he would say "god why hast thou forsaken me?"

and he would also be thinking, "ffs smh"

right on!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

If you've had your vaccinations and believe you are protected, why worry anymore if that person or that person may not have been vaccinated? Throw your mask away and enjoy life. Or are you not totally sold on the vaccinations actually working?

I find that a bit inconsiderate of our fellow human beings.

I've been fully vaccinated but not everyone that wants to has been able to. Once you are vaccinated, you can still contact the virus and spread it. In light of that, I will continue to wear a mask and distance myself while indoors in public places. I do this not for me but for those around me.

I will not however fall for the hysteria that seems to be around about people outdoors. From the beginning Dr Fauci and other leading experts have agreed that the chances of contracting this virus outdoors is pretty close to zero. I think that there has been a big learning curve for Fauci and other experts but they have been consistent on this point from day one. Why they continue to insist on people wearing masks outdoors is beyond me. It's probably that they are trying to get people to be super, super careful and they want to cover their butts in the event that someone does catch it while outdoors.

I don't wear a mask out doors because it seems to me to be absurd. I know that a large number of people have gotten this virus and a large number have died from it but in terms of percentages the numbers are really very low. The chance of catching Covid is very low to begin with and the chance of catching it outdoors is very close to zero.

[golfing eagles]

I find that a bit inconsiderate of our fellow human beings.

I've been fully vaccinated but not everyone that wants to has been able to. Once you are vaccinated, you can still contact the virus and spread it. In light of that, I will continue to wear a mask and distance myself while indoors in public places. I do this not for me but for those around me.

I will not however fall for the hysteria that seems to be around about people outdoors. From the beginning Dr Fauci and other leading experts have agreed that the chances of contracting this virus outdoors is pretty close to zero. I think that there has been a big learning curve for Fauci and other experts but they have been consistent on this point from day one. Why they continue to insist on people wearing masks outdoors is beyond me. It's probably that they are trying to get people to be super, super careful and they want to cover their butts in the event that someone does catch it while outdoors.

I don't wear a mask out doors because it seems to me to be absurd. I know that a large number of people have gotten this virus and a large number have died from it but in terms of percentages the numbers are really very low. The chance of catching Covid is very low to begin with and the chance of catching it outdoors is very close to zero.

For the last time (but I doubt it will be the last time), NO YOU CAN'T

[Tmarkwald]

Not everyone has been able to get vaccinated.

At this point, with vaccines getting thrown away because they expire, Anyone who wanted to get vaccinated has been vaccinated.

I, as well, find it absurd that vaccinated people should wear masks to protect people who refuse the vaccination.

CDC wants Vaccinated people to wear a mask incase they come in contact with an anti-vaxxer who might spread it?

Crazy.

If you are an anti-vaxxer and have Covid, all you spread it to is ANOTHER anti-vaxxer.

You made your choice to not be protected. You can pay the price.

[MDLNB]

For the last time (but I doubt it will be the last time), NO YOU CAN'T


Once again, THANK YOU for repeating it. Apparently, those that say they believe in science, do not believe it enough to have confidence in it. I hope you will not get tired of repeating the message. Maybe we can get on with life once they start listening.

[coffeebean]

What would jesus say? Well if I've learned anything from the new testament and the lessons it teaches about morality, ethics, spreading lies and manipulating facts in order to get a world's savior murdered...

I think jesus would say:

"forgive them for they know not what they do."

and at the same time, he would say "god why hast thou forsaken me?"

and he would also be thinking, "ffs smh"

OMG.....too funny!

[coffeebean]

At this point, with vaccines getting thrown away because they expire, Anyone who wanted to get vaccinated has been vaccinated.

I, as well, find it absurd that vaccinated people should wear masks to protect people who refuse the vaccination.

CDC wants Vaccinated people to wear a mask incase they come in contact with an anti-vaxxer who might spread it?

Crazy.

If you are an anti-vaxxer and have Covid, all you spread it to is ANOTHER anti-vaxxer.

You made your choice to not be protected. You can pay the price.
I do agree with you and have said all along that I will not protect anti-vaxxers, non - vaxxers, anti- Covid vaxxers, and non-Covid vaxxers. Having said that, are you absolutely sure everyone who wants the vaccine has gotten their vaccine? I don't want to unmask until I'm very sure of that.

I must say that I'm seeing more and more customers entering local retail stores and restaurants without masks. The employees are still masking but I would imagine that is because their employers mandate them to be masked. I'm going to wait it out some more time to unmask.

[Gulfcoast]

At this point, with vaccines getting thrown away because they expire, Anyone who wanted to get vaccinated has been vaccinated.

I, as well, find it absurd that vaccinated people should wear masks to protect people who refuse the vaccination.

CDC wants Vaccinated people to wear a mask incase they come in contact with an anti-vaxxer who might spread it?

Crazy.

If you are an anti-vaxxer and have Covid, all you spread it to is ANOTHER anti-vaxxer.

You made your choice to not be protected. You can pay the price.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the people who are opting not to get the vaccine are not the people who are still demanding that people wear masks nor are they expecting anyone else to protect them.

[Tmarkwald]

I do agree with you and have said all along that I will not protect anti-vaxxers, non - vaxxers, anti- Covid vaxxers, and non-Covid vaxxers. Having said that, are you absolutely sure everyone who wants the vaccine has gotten their vaccine? I don't want to unmask until I'm very sure of that.

I must say that I'm seeing more and more customers entering local retail stores and restaurants without masks. The employees are still masking but I would imagine that is because their employers mandate them to be masked. I'm going to wait it out some more time to unmask.

hey - I agree! But It seems like everywhere I go I see 'Covid-19 vaccine now available with no appointment'. At the V clinic. there were 8 nurses on their phones and one guy getting a vaccination and they were getting ready to throw away the day's supply of Pfizer - about 200 doses...

They are begging people to get vaccinated. At this point it is personal choice. But I'm patient. I just hope people come to their senses so the number of funerals drop as people realize vaccination is the only way to get protection...

[coffeebean]

Ok, I will gladly, as always, show my lack of intelligence...

What does "ffs smh" indicate ?

Just got a PM with an explanation. I got it and agree. Wondered how he handles the liars when they consistently say its them being picked on or refers HIM to a website of a questionable nature !

I spend half my life (bit of hyperbole) looking up these social media short cuts. Now when I see the ones I'm used to, it is just like reading the actual words. Am I regressing to a teenager??? I doubt it!!!

[Bucco]

I spend half my life (bit of hyperbole) looking up these social media short cuts. Now when I see the ones I'm used to, it is just like reading the actual words. Am I regressing to a teenager??? I doubt it!!!

I know what you mean. As someone who takes lying and enabling of liars (for any reason) to be serious, I often think what these folks believe will happen when they "face the music". Do they really think that pushing lies and liars will set well with HIM. .do they not know HE looks into your soul, so he knows, and I see no way out for them.

Then add the lies surrounding this pandemic, most pushed by the same folks, and you must then pray for their salvation frankly.

Too serious ? Ok, but gotta brush up on the new shorthand.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I spend half my life (bit of hyperbole) looking up these social media short cuts. Now when I see the ones I'm used to, it is just like reading the actual words. Am I regressing to a teenager??? I doubt it!!!

I play MUDs with around 200 other players ranging in age between 18 and 59 (I'm the oldest at 60, effective tomorrow). The average player is in his/her 30's. So I'm around this jargon ALL THE TIME. idk but u get used 2 it after awhile

[coffeebean]

I know what you mean. As someone who takes lying and enabling of liars (for any reason) to be serious, I often think what these folks believe will happen when they "face the music". Do they really think that pushing lies and liars will set well with HIM. .do they not know HE looks into your soul, so he knows, and I see no way out for them.

Then add the lies surrounding this pandemic, most pushed by the same folks, and you must then pray for their salvation frankly.

Too serious ? Ok, but gotta brush up on the new shorthand.
I'm not quite sure what your response means to my comment about "social media short cuts". I was talking about the short cut for "ffs smh". LOL. I did not refer to anything regarding lies or what ever else you said in your response to me.

I was just making a joke and quipping about the social media short cut slang stuff. LOL.

[coffeebean]

I play MUDs with around 200 other players ranging in age between 18 and 59 (I'm the oldest at 60, effective tomorrow). The average player is in his/her 30's. So I'm around this jargon ALL THE TIME. idk but u get used 2 it after awhile

OK....you got me now. What is MUDs? Is this what you are referring to?

MUD - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD)

So sorry to the OP for going OT.

[jimjamuser]

I play MUDs with around 200 other players ranging in age between 18 and 59 (I'm the oldest at 60, effective tomorrow). The average player is in his/her 30's. So I'm around this jargon ALL THE TIME. idk but u get used 2 it after awhile
Happy 2morrow Bday!

[jimjamuser]

Fauci is an overpaid pollical pawn, used to control the people.
Dr. Fauci is a diligent hard-working Medical scientist that deserves a HERO's parade everywhere he goes and is to be admired NOT denigrated by uninformed cult worshippers.

[jimjamuser]

Is that you Dad ?
Yes son, good job paying attention. Now go clean your room and then take out the trash!

[jimjamuser]

Not rounding, just wrong. Yep, you won't be sued.
A missed opportunity to say - not rounding, just wrongING.......Ha,Ha.....and tee hee!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

OK....you got me now. What is MUDs? Is this what you are referring to?

MUD - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD)

So sorry to the OP for going OT.

Yup that's what I mean. Mine is an RPI called ArmageddonMUD. It has its own wikipedia entry, it's the longest-running RPI on the internet, and one of the original 3 with Harshlands and Shadows of Isildur being the other two.

Urban Dictionary: RPI (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=RPI&page=2)
and
Armageddon (MUD - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armageddon_(MUD))
and
armageddon.org (you might get a security error - the error is erroneous, you can bypass that)

[Topspinmo]

Oh boy, here we go again... :ohdear: In your own words: "Only 1 in 13,000 people who were fully vaccinated got COVID, and probably fewer than that could "pass it on"", followed by "stop posting that you can still get and pass on COVID if you are vaccinated"! Just a tad contradictory, don't ya' think??? And I've still seen no recognized authorities claim that the possibility of transmission is a rumor/myth. If you have, please post a link.

I personally don't claim to be a member of any such organization :icon_wink: but I do know how to use a search engine as well as read past the first line of whatever hit gives me a warm feeling. (Not to mention posting links to pertinent information that I quote.) More context from the CDC on this issue of breakthrough cases:
"There will be a small percentage of people who are fully vaccinated who still get sick, are hospitalized, or die from COVID-19."
"Asymptomatic infections among vaccinated people also will occur."
and "It is important to note that reported vaccine breakthrough cases will represent an undercount. This surveillance system is passive and relies on voluntary reporting from state health departments which may not be complete. Also, not all real-world breakthrough cases will be identified because of lack of testing. This is particularly true in instances of asymptomatic or mild illness.". These cherries from COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html)

From another CDC page:
"If you get COVID-19 after vaccination, your symptoms might be less severe

Even though a small percentage of fully vaccinated people will get sick, vaccination will protect most people from getting sick. There also is some evidence that vaccination may make illness less severe in people who get vaccinated but still get sick. Despite this, some fully vaccinated people will still be hospitalized and die." What You Should Know About the Possibility of COVID-19 Illness After Vaccination | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html)
So far as I know, the CDC hasn't said outright that those fully vaccinated and subsequently hospitalized cannot spread the virus.

Don’t doubt the great Oz. :)

[Topspinmo]

For the last time (but I doubt it will be the last time), NO YOU CAN'T


Yes, Oz

[Malsua]

Sorry, drifted off there for a second...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Sorry everyone for causing the derailment of this topic! Anyone wanting to ask about (or reminisce about) MUDs and similar, I opened a new thread in Just for Fun!
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/just-fun-109/muds-their-lesser-offspring-mmorpgs-319245/

[golfing eagles]

Yes, Oz

That's right-----and just like the scarecrow, there are some on TOTV that desperately need a BRAIN!

[coffeebean]

Yup that's what I mean. Mine is an RPI called ArmageddonMUD. It has its own wikipedia entry, it's the longest-running RPI on the internet, and one of the original 3 with Harshlands and Shadows of Isildur being the other two.

Urban Dictionary: RPI (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=RPI&page=2)
and
Armageddon (MUD - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armageddon_(MUD))
and
armageddon.org (you might get a security error - the error is erroneous, you can bypass that)

Very interesting. Learn something every day and isn't that the truth.

[roscoguy]

Yes, Oz

Right you are. :thumbup: Maybe this has already been discussed elsewhere, but if so, I missed it. "COVID-19 Outbreak Associated with a SARS-CoV-2 R.1 Lineage Variant in a Skilled Nursing Facility After Vaccination Program — Kentucky, March 2021" COVID-19 Outbreak Associated with a SARS-CoV-2 R.1 Lineage Variant in a Skilled Nursing Facility After Vaccination Program — Kentucky, March 2021 | MMWR (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7017e2.htm)
Parts of the CDC's summary include: "Vaccine was 86.5% protective against symptomatic illness among residents and 87.1% protective among HCP." and "Although COVID-19 mRNA vaccines demonstrated high efficacy in clinical trials (1), they were not 100% efficacious. Thus, some infections postvaccination are expected.".
So, even though the reported number of cases is statistically minuscule (so far) and even though this outbreak may prove to be an anomaly, using words like 'can't' and 'won't' when talking about the chances of a vaccinated person contracting Covid are just plain wrong.

[Bay Kid]

Dr. Fauci is a diligent hard-working Medical scientist that deserves a HERO's parade everywhere he goes and is to be admired NOT denigrated by uninformed cult worshippers.

Your opinion and that I will respect that. I'm not a cult worshipper. He is a overpaid flipper, period.

[MDLNB]

Your opinion and that I will respect that. I'm not a cult worshipper. He is a overpaid flipper, period.


Hey, he only "flips" according to his political view.

[Tmarkwald]

Hey, he only "flips" according to his political view.

He is one of the highest paid people there and says whatever his 'boss', wants him to say.

[golfing eagles]

Right you are. :thumbup: Maybe this has already been discussed elsewhere, but if so, I missed it. "COVID-19 Outbreak Associated with a SARS-CoV-2 R.1 Lineage Variant in a Skilled Nursing Facility After Vaccination Program — Kentucky, March 2021" COVID-19 Outbreak Associated with a SARS-CoV-2 R.1 Lineage Variant in a Skilled Nursing Facility After Vaccination Program — Kentucky, March 2021 | MMWR (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7017e2.htm)
Parts of the CDC's summary include: "Vaccine was 86.5% protective against symptomatic illness among residents and 87.1% protective among HCP." and "Although COVID-19 mRNA vaccines demonstrated high efficacy in clinical trials (1), they were not 100% efficacious. Thus, some infections postvaccination are expected.".
So, even though the reported number of cases is statistically minuscule (so far) and even though this outbreak may prove to be an anomaly, using words like 'can't' and 'won't' when talking about the chances of a vaccinated person contracting Covid are just plain wrong.

You are correct. According to the CDC, there were 5,318 cases among 85,000,000 vaccinated, or 0.008%. So can't and won't are not correct. Nearly impossible and lotto odds improbable are probably better. And a single nursing home in Kentucky statistically means absolutely NOTHING.

[roscoguy]

You are correct. According to the CDC, there were 5,318 cases among 85,000,000 vaccinated, or 0.008%. So can't and won't are not correct. Nearly impossible and lotto odds improbable are probably better. And a single nursing home in Kentucky statistically means absolutely NOTHING.

Not disagreeing with any of that. I guess my first question would be: IS this an isolated incident? Unless or until other facilities are conducting similar screening & testing, we may not know the full story for some time.

While the CDC report is still mostly reassuring, there are some troubling implications as well. If I'm reading the numbers right, 18 of the 75 vaccinated residents were infected, with 6 of them being symptomatic.

[golfing eagles]

Not disagreeing with any of that. I guess my first question would be: IS this an isolated incident? Unless or until other facilities are conducting similar screening & testing, we may not know the full story for some time.

While the CDC report is still mostly reassuring, there are some troubling implications as well. If I'm reading the numbers right, 18 of the 75 vaccinated residents were infected, with 6 of them being symptomatic.

Also agree (scary, isn't it?). We don't know if it is a 1 off, or a variant, or the beginning of a new set of numbers from the CDC. I am pretty sure that 5318/85 million won't hold---there will be more breakthrough cases as time goes on. After all, the "real world" number from the CDC is 0.008%, but the research number during the trials was 5%----that's about a 3 order of magnitude difference so something "seems" fishy.

[tuccillo]

They are not the same number. The efficacy rate during the Pfizer trial was essentially the ratio of the positives of the test group and the placebo group. This ratio was 20 to 1, or 5%, and reflects the reduction in the probability of catching COVID if exposed. The number of breakthrough cases during the trial for the test group was 8 out of 21,000 or 0.04%, not 5%. The current CDC reported breakthrough rate (for the fully vaccinated) is probably undercounted at 0.008%.

Also agree (scary, isn't it?). We don't know if it is a 1 off, or a variant, or the beginning of a new set of numbers from the CDC. I am pretty sure that 5318/85 million won't hold---there will be more breakthrough cases as time goes on. After all, the "real world" number from the CDC is 0.008%, but the research number during the trials was 5%----that's about a 3 order of magnitude difference so something "seems" fishy.

[coffeebean]

Not disagreeing with any of that. I guess my first question would be: IS this an isolated incident? Unless or until other facilities are conducting similar screening & testing, we may not know the full story for some time.

While the CDC report is still mostly reassuring, there are some troubling implications as well. If I'm reading the numbers right, 18 of the 75 vaccinated residents were infected, with 6 of them being symptomatic.

How severe were those symptoms? Were any of the symptomatic patients hospitalized? Any deaths? Those are the important questions to be answered.

[jimjamuser]

Your opinion and that I will respect that. I'm not a cult worshipper. He is a overpaid flipper, period.
OK. I can respect, "not a cult-worshipper"!