Camara phones have changed our lives

[jebartle]

Wonder if Steve Jobs had any idea that an accessible camera would change our lives, court cases, etc. How has it changed your life? It certainly changed the outcome of the most recent trial in Minnesota.

[Two Bills]

Thought from your title, that Iphone had another rival!:icon_wink:

[camaguey48]

Phone cameras are like opinions. Everyone has one.

[jebartle]

Phone cameras are like opinions. Everyone has one.

Actually, like prosecuter said in Chauvin case, believe your eyes, not sure any had different opinions on what happened to George Floyd. This might change crime in general, IF, everyone has a camera phone. Believe what you see.

[JoMar]

Actually, like prosecuter said in Chauvin case, believe your eyes, not sure any had different opinions on what happened to George Floyd. This might change crime in general, IF, everyone has a camera phone. Believe what you see.

Not specific to this case, but believing what you see depends on context and photo/editing software now available on phones as well. Sound bites have always been a concern and what you didn't hear could make a difference. We have now graduated to the video bite where what we don't see can make a difference. Then of course there is CGI stuff which makes what isn't real...real. And that's coming to a phone near you also. We see what the videographer shows us and, in my view, there is a Paul Harvey context story to almost every video.

[skarra]

Wonder if Steve Jobs had any idea that an accessible camera would change our lives, court cases, etc. How has it changed your life? It certainly changed the outcome of the most recent trial in Minnesota.


PLUS body cams.

If that makes the police think twice about what they are doing, that is a good thing.

Video footage is as good as, if not better than, a witness. Not that a witness is a perfect form of evidence as it has been proven to be unreliable in many cases. (memory, interpretation, etc)

[chet2020]

With everyone walking around with cameras in their pockets, I am disappointed we don't have more pictures of ghosts, UFOs, lake creatures, and bigfoot.

[contiki98]

Keep this in mind, something had to happen that caused a person to think, "I should get out my phone and record this." Whatever that was, it was not recorded. So the video footage does not tell the whole story. The beginning of the story is usually not recorded. I often ask, "What was going on that made people think they needed to get out their phone?" And like an eyewitness, the camera only records what it in front of it. It cannot see through things or around corners. A camera actually has a very limited field of view. It does not have the peripheral vision we have with our eyes. So IMHO, there is always more to the story.

[merrymini]

The media is good at editing what you see to fit their narrative. Good to be skeptical.

[Girlcopper]

PLUS body cams.

If that makes the police think twice about what they are doing, that is a good thing.

Video footage is as good as, if not better than, a witness. Not that a witness is a perfect form of evidence as it has been proven to be unreliable in many cases. (memory, interpretation, etc)
Too bad the body cameras dont make the local morons think before they act

[Bay Kid]

Actually, like prosecuter said in Chauvin case, believe your eyes, not sure any had different opinions on what happened to George Floyd. This might change crime in general, IF, everyone has a camera phone. Believe what you see.

Thank goodness for all those free phones.

[Villages Kahuna]

Not specific to this case, but believing what you see depends on context and photo/editing software now available on phones as well. Sound bites have always been a concern and what you didn't hear could make a difference. We have now graduated to the video bite where what we don't see can make a difference. Then of course there is CGI stuff which makes what isn't real...real. And that's coming to a phone near you also. We see what the videographer shows us and, in my view, there is a Paul Harvey context story to almost every video.... that photographs and videos taken on cell phones are “fake news”.

We haven’t heard that term used multiple times each day for several months now. I had hoped that the term, which has been so damaging to all our news sources would be forgotten, permitting our many legitimate journalists and sources to rebuild their reputations. Our democracy cannot survive without Americans having sources of news that they can rely on to make decisions about who and how they will be represented.

[tvbound]

Thank goodness for all those free phones.
A program started long before 2008.

The Obama Phone? - FactCheck.org (/2009/10/the-obama-phone/)

[J1ceasar]

Most probably 99% of photographs and videos are not fake but they are certainly edited or shortened to present the view of the media showing it. Of more concern 2-5 years down the road will be what's called deep fake videos, much like what multi-million dollar computers have done for the movie industry, this will come up personal software program and almost anybody will be able to use and you'll have to be even more careful in listening and using your brain to decide of something is real or not

[Dgodin]

Wonder if Steve Jobs had any idea that an accessible camera would change our lives, court cases, etc. How has it changed your life? It certainly changed the outcome of the most recent trial in Minnesota.
We wouldnt get nearly as many grandkid photos if not for camera phones and the ability to easily post photos.

[ellenwelsh]

It has allowed me to see my kids and grandkids for this past year. Thank you, Steve Jobs.

[Larchap49]

... that photographs and videos taken on cell phones are “fake news”.

We haven’t heard that term used multiple times each day for several months now. I had hoped that the term, which has been so damaging to all our news sources would be forgotten, permitting our many legitimate journalists and sources to rebuild their reputations. Our democracy cannot survive without Americans having sources of news that they can rely on to make decisions about who and how they will be represented.

Just wondering just what those sources would be. Please list just one or two because I can't find any that have any continuity, they all follow the views of the network executives. It's a bad sign when when a large portion of the population doesn't trust the Government or the Press.

[stan the man]

Thought from your title, that Iphone had another rival!:icon_wink:

Think you meant Android phone

[DAVES]

Wonder if Steve Jobs had any idea that an accessible camera would change our lives, court cases, etc. How has it changed your life? It certainly changed the outcome of the most recent trial in Minnesota.

Mark Twain said something to the effect that we do not make any progress because as we move forward we lose what was.

We would all be lost without our cell phones and computers. What did we lose? Among other things privacy and good manners.

The good old days? Like it or not we cannot go back to what was. We must, like it or not live with the new reality.

[DAVES]

Just wondering just what those sources would be. Please list just one or two because I can't find any that have any continuity, they all follow the views of the network executives. It's a bad sign when when a large portion of the population doesn't trust the Government or the Press.

"When a large portion of the population doesn't trust the Government or the Press." I'm not sure if it has gotten worse or we just think it has.

The civil war. Trust of government? While it is spun, politically corrected in public indoctrination. Half the country was under a government led by Jefferson Davis and the other half led by Abe Lincoln. The press spun the side they supported.

I recently read a book about the Wright brothers complete with letters etc. The first powered flight was 1903. It was a world story. France and Italy were both leaders.
The Wright brothers did not use the current term,"fake news," but they did complain that newspaper reporters wrote things that they had no idea what they were saying. They complained that reporters fed on other reporters misinformation and they complained
about since it was a world competition about reporters and a nationalistic bias.

Much of what people scream about is nothing new. A lot of it has never and will never be resolved. In the end things will never be perfect. Reality, things are pretty good.
Our press feeds on confrontation. That too has always been so. My opinion, having studied journalism, ethics of the press have deteriorated dramatically.

[Luisa]

Not specific to this case, but believing what you see depends on context and photo/editing software now available on phones as well. Sound bites have always been a concern and what you didn't hear could make a difference. We have now graduated to the video bite where what we don't see can make a difference. Then of course there is CGI stuff which makes what isn't real...real. And that's coming to a phone near you also. We see what the videographer shows us and, in my view, there is a Paul Harvey context story to almost every video.
Suspicious how part of video was was constantly in public view and the rest was court ordered from public view.

[DAVES]

PLUS body cams.

If that makes the police think twice about what they are doing, that is a good thing.

Video footage is as good as, if not better than, a witness. Not that a witness is a perfect form of evidence as it has been proven to be unreliable in many cases. (memory, interpretation, etc)

Reality-"the police think twice about what they are doing, that is a good thing."
We have all the time in the world sitting safely in front of our computer. It is far different making decisions in part of a second with Adrenalin pumping.

In am not a cop. I have worked in neighborhoods where most people say I don't go there.

I have seen cops in action. I have seen cops decide it is not worth the paperwork to catch this guy. He will be out before the ink drys and my superior will question why I bothered to catch this guy. The criminals also know this.

The opposite is a police state. Public caning a kid for stealing a political poster.
The question is what do we want. Where is the proper balance? That question has not to date ever been answered. Perhaps, there is no answer that we can all agree on.
Law, unless we accept an all powerful dictator, and even then is not and cannot be perfect.

[jimjamuser]

Wonder if Steve Jobs had any idea that an accessible camera would change our lives, court cases, etc. How has it changed your life? It certainly changed the outcome of the most recent trial in Minnesota.
I think that Steve Jobs knew exactly the degree that a camera phone would change people's lives. He probably thought constantly about change and technical innovation. He wanted his devices to be people-friendly not just expert-friendly. Derrick Chauvin had his life changed by the camera phone. And that could possibly end up as a landmark pivot in human and race relations?

[La lamy]

It's an amazing tool. Definitely helps keep people accountable.

[jimjamuser]

Just wondering just what those sources would be. Please list just one or two because I can't find any that have any continuity, they all follow the views of the network executives. It's a bad sign when when a large portion of the population doesn't trust the Government or the Press.
I hate to break that bubble - but a large portion of the population DOES truly trust the government (today) and the majority of TRADITIONAL news sources - the sources that can be vetted - just one example would be the USA Today. There are several recently conceived internet news sources that are dark and full of anarchy. There is also one major TV and radio network that began in the 1990s that is dark and full of propaganda. Those last mentioned and fairly newly conceived media outlets are slowly walking America away from Democracy towards fascism using soft propaganda techniques.

[Bucco]

I hate to break that bubble - but a large portion of the population DOES truly trust the government (today) and the majority of TRADITIONAL news sources - the sources that can be vetted - just one example would be the USA Today. There are several recently conceived internet news sources that are dark and full of anarchy. There is also one major TV and radio network that began in the 1990s that is dark and full of propaganda. Those last mentioned and fairly newly conceived media outlets are slowly walking America away from Democracy towards fascism using soft propaganda techniques.

You nailed it. ACCOUNTABILITY for ones actions and words WILL return.

"Soft propaganda" is going easy...it has become blatant. Honesty is lost....truth does not count.

[jebartle]

"When a large portion of the population doesn't trust the Government or the Press." I'm not sure if it has gotten worse or we just think it has.

The civil war. Trust of government? While it is spun, politically corrected in public indoctrination. Half the country was under a government led by Jefferson Davis and the other half led by Abe Lincoln. The press spun the side they supported.

I recently read a book about the Wright brothers complete with letters etc. The first powered flight was 1903. It was a world story. France and Italy were both leaders.
The Wright brothers did not use the current term,"fake news," but they did complain that newspaper reporters wrote things that they had no idea what they were saying. They complained that reporters fed on other reporters misinformation and they complained
about since it was a world competition about reporters and a nationalistic bias.

Much of what people scream about is nothing new. A lot of it has never and will never be resolved. In the end things will never be perfect. Reality, things are pretty good.
Our press feeds on confrontation. That too has always been so. My opinion, having studied journalism, ethics of the press have deteriorated dramatically.

It is what it is, and BTW, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

[jimjamuser]

Too bad the body cameras dont make the local morons think before they act
True! But, the fact that those "local morons" even exist makes me think that our society has FAILED both them and us. Many elements are FAR less than perfect - education comes to mind 1st - quality of life - wealth disparity - the "greed is good" mantra - the stopping of scientific research grants to Universities - the recent downplaying of science in general. I wonder if Switzerland or other countries have the same degree of problems with "local morons"? Maybe the US should study the countries that have better results? Maybe the US should be less jingoistic?

In the 1950s era that is often looked upon with awe and respect - the US had something that it has gradually lost. Back then the wealth gap in the US was DECREASING. Today it is increasing and we have the largest wealth gap in the free world. Google that - every rational citizen in the US should be constantly aware of that unfortunate US trend. A tread that could end in a disaster and the end of the American experiment. And we are responsible because it happened in OUR time.

[daddymac1127]

If police have to think twice before reacting then there will be more dead police. Just my opinion.

[jimjamuser]

... that photographs and videos taken on cell phones are “fake news”.

We haven’t heard that term used multiple times each day for several months now. I had hoped that the term, which has been so damaging to all our news sources would be forgotten, permitting our many legitimate journalists and sources to rebuild their reputations. Our democracy cannot survive without Americans having sources of news that they can rely on to make decisions about who and how they will be represented.
Unfortunately, we have ALLOWED propaganda to creep into that equation. Our free society and also Australia's society has been taken advantage of.

[jimjamuser]

Thank goodness for all those free phones.
That statement involves holding a grudge for a VERY long time. It also contains a smattering of racial overtones.

[jimjamuser]

Most probably 99% of photographs and videos are not fake but they are certainly edited or shortened to present the view of the media showing it. Of more concern 2-5 years down the road will be what's called deep fake videos, much like what multi-million dollar computers have done for the movie industry, this will come up personal software program and almost anybody will be able to use and you'll have to be even more careful in listening and using your brain to decide of something is real or not
That is a good post that gives a good warning. We, as a whole country, need to improve our universal education in order to improve critical thinking and technical expertise. Technology is a 2 edged sword - it giveth and it taketh!

[jimjamuser]

Mark Twain said something to the effect that we do not make any progress because as we move forward we lose what was.

We would all be lost without our cell phones and computers. What did we lose? Among other things privacy and good manners.

The good old days? Like it or not we cannot go back to what was. We must, like it or not live with the new reality.
The "good old days" had one advantage - the wealth gap was decreasing!

[DAVES]

I think that Steve Jobs knew exactly the degree that a camera phone would change people's lives. He probably thought constantly about change and technical innovation. He wanted his devices to be people-friendly not just expert-friendly. Derrick Chauvin had his life changed by the camera phone. And that could possibly end up as a landmark pivot in human and race relations?

Language is our only means of communications yet it often spins reality. Human relations that term is clear at least to me. Race relations? First of all black and white are not the only races. As far as black and white friction over history first of all it has never been settled, I'm not sure it ever will be or can be. As far as friction, confrontation if we prefer, it has over the years risen and fallen. It is at the highest level I've seen i my lifetime. I am white. I have no white guilt. Truth I have no reason to be guilty-that simple.

For the rest of you. Reparations. Real historical reality. There is almost no group in the United States that could not demand reparations. The Indians? The Irish, many came over as indentured servants, slaves for 14 years. The apprenticeship system you were a slave for 7 years. The Chinese came over to build the railroads, many died doing that and then it was made illegal to employ them. The Japanese, were interred at the start of WWII. The blacks and slavery. We are indoctrinated how evil it was. Go figure there were blacks that owned slaves.

Reality, is far different and far more complex than the mindless hate that drives many.

[jimjamuser]

"When a large portion of the population doesn't trust the Government or the Press." I'm not sure if it has gotten worse or we just think it has.

The civil war. Trust of government? While it is spun, politically corrected in public indoctrination. Half the country was under a government led by Jefferson Davis and the other half led by Abe Lincoln. The press spun the side they supported.

I recently read a book about the Wright brothers complete with letters etc. The first powered flight was 1903. It was a world story. France and Italy were both leaders.
The Wright brothers did not use the current term,"fake news," but they did complain that newspaper reporters wrote things that they had no idea what they were saying. They complained that reporters fed on other reporters misinformation and they complained
about since it was a world competition about reporters and a nationalistic bias.

Much of what people scream about is nothing new. A lot of it has never and will never be resolved. In the end things will never be perfect. Reality, things are pretty good.
Our press feeds on confrontation. That too has always been so. My opinion, having studied journalism, ethics of the press have deteriorated dramatically.
I disagree with only one part of that post. Namely, the "things are pretty good". If things are so good, then WHY does the US have the greatest wealth disparity of 1st world nations. Things started going south in about 1975 when average wages no longer increased with respect to inflation.

[jimjamuser]

Reality-"the police think twice about what they are doing, that is a good thing."
We have all the time in the world sitting safely in front of our computer. It is far different making decisions in part of a second with Adrenalin pumping.

In am not a cop. I have worked in neighborhoods where most people say I don't go there.

I have seen cops in action. I have seen cops decide it is not worth the paperwork to catch this guy. He will be out before the ink drys and my superior will question why I bothered to catch this guy. The criminals also know this.

The opposite is a police state. Public caning a kid for stealing a political poster.
The question is what do we want. Where is the proper balance? That question has not to date ever been answered. Perhaps, there is no answer that we can all agree on.
Law, unless we accept an all powerful dictator, and even then is not and cannot be perfect.
A dictatorship would be the WORST of ALL possibilities. I hate to even comprehend that in relation to the US of A.

[tvbound]

With the totally misleading and incomplete original "official" statement put out regarding Chauvin, which had to instantly be backtracked after that brave young lady's video came to light, it's only a guess as to the thousands and thousands of similar incidents that bad cops have gotten away with in the past. May the lying and automatic belief of anything an LEO says, over the actual filming of an incident - soon be a thing of the past. Such as the shooting of the girl with the knife, which under the circumstances, makes it hard to criticize the cop's unfortunate action.

[DAVES]

The "good old days" had one advantage - the wealth gap was decreasing!

The wealth gap? My personal truth. My dad was an injured WWII COMBAT vet. He served two tours of combat duty. Poor? We lived in a city housing project. My dad worked hard
and increased his income. I have first hand knowledge of what poor is. Today, people who are not working demand to live better than my family did.

As stated, today our poor, live far better than I did. Wealth gap? The poor have improved their living conditions. The wealthy have also gotten wealthier. What we called the robber barons, actually had greater wealth than the top 1% does today.
A major reason is the income tax and the inheritance tax. Roosevelt, (FDR) the creator of our current big government, actually inherited his huge wealth.

What I have, I EARNED. I inherited a little almost enough to pay the taxes some think I pay too little. My view, all should experience poverty. I gave me unique view. You can
earn your way out of poverty so long as you decide failure is not an option.

[graciegirl]

Actually, like prosecuter said in Chauvin case, believe your eyes, not sure any had different opinions on what happened to George Floyd. This might change crime in general, IF, everyone has a camera phone. Believe what you see.

Well I watched all of the footage, and I saw and heard George Floyd refusing to sit in the squad car, after refusing to get out of his own car and later struggle against four policemen. I saw him apparently quite high on something inside the store. I saw that he was a very large man in apparent excellent physical shape and he towered over the smaller police officers. It appeared to take all four to restrain him.

The cameras, nor the trial mentioned that George Floyd had been arrested and convicted for breaking into a home and holding a gun to the belly of a pregnant woman while four others robbed the home. He must have continued to do illegal things because the store clerk called the police in the first place because he passed a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. Correct me if I am wrong on either what I saw or what I read from sources I vetted.

[graciegirl]

I disagree with only one part of that post. Namely, the "things are pretty good". If things are so good, then WHY does the US have the greatest wealth disparity of 1st world nations. Things started going south in about 1975 when average wages no longer increased with respect to inflation.

The person in charge of wealth disparity is the person in charge of themselves. If you work hard and save, if you sacrifice and are careful, almost everyone can be financially comfortable, until someone comes into leadership who wants to spend your money for you.

[jebartle]

Well I watched all of the footage, and I saw and heard George Floyd refusing to sit in the squad car, after refusing to get out of his own car and later struggle against four policemen. I saw him apparently quite high on something inside the store. I saw that he was a very large man in apparent excellent physical shape and he towered over the smaller police officers. It appeared to take all four to restrain him.

The cameras, nor the trial mentioned that George Floyd had been arrested and convicted for breaking into a home and holding a gun to the belly of a pregnant woman while four others robbed the home. He must have continued to do illegal things because the store clerk called the police in the first place because he passed a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. Correct me if I am wrong on either what I saw or what I read from sources I vetted.

You know I'm a member of your fan club, but what I saw on video was a cop on George Floyd's neck for 9 and half minutes, that and the $20 counterfeit bill was the only issue, for that he died, thank goodness for the video camera, that will change policing I hope, and protect victims and the police.

[Bucco]

The person in charge of wealth disparity is the person in charge of themselves. If you work hard and save, if you sacrifice and are careful, almost everyone can be financially comfortable, until someone comes into leadership who wants to spend your money for you.

Suggested reading.....BLACK LIKE ME.......John Howard Griffin

Might give you a more realistic viewpoint

[jimjamuser]

Language is our only means of communications yet it often spins reality. Human relations that term is clear at least to me. Race relations? First of all black and white are not the only races. As far as black and white friction over history first of all it has never been settled, I'm not sure it ever will be or can be. As far as friction, confrontation if we prefer, it has over the years risen and fallen. It is at the highest level I've seen i my lifetime. I am white. I have no white guilt. Truth I have no reason to be guilty-that simple.

For the rest of you. Reparations. Real historical reality. There is almost no group in the United States that could not demand reparations. The Indians? The Irish, many came over as indentured servants, slaves for 14 years. The apprenticeship system you were a slave for 7 years. The Chinese came over to build the railroads, many died doing that and then it was made illegal to employ them. The Japanese, were interred at the start of WWII. The blacks and slavery. We are indoctrinated how evil it was. Go figure there were blacks that owned slaves.

Reality, is far different and far more complex than the mindless hate that drives many.
It would be POSSIBLE to decrease black and white "friction". it would require a somewhat "big brother" solution that most people would NOT go for. But, for argument's sake, the government could increase the blending of races by paying women and couples to give birth by artificial insemination to children of races different from themselves. Increased blending would likely decrease friction. Of course, many people would find fault with such a system that it would NOT be utilized. I guess that it is possible that in a few hundred years that the whole earth's population is blended. And maybe even national borders are eliminated then?

[jimjamuser]

With the totally misleading and incomplete original "official" statement put out regarding Chauvin, which had to instantly be backtracked after that brave young lady's video came to light, it's only a guess as to the thousands and thousands of similar incidents that bad cops have gotten away with in the past. May the lying and automatic belief of anything an LEO says, over the actual filming of an incident - soon be a thing of the past. Such as the shooting of the girl with the knife, which under the circumstances, makes it hard to criticize the cop's unfortunate action.
Yes, cell phone cameras make many situations less opaque and more transparent.

[jimjamuser]

The wealth gap? My personal truth. My dad was an injured WWII COMBAT vet. He served two tours of combat duty. Poor? We lived in a city housing project. My dad worked hard
and increased his income. I have first hand knowledge of what poor is. Today, people who are not working demand to live better than my family did.

As stated, today our poor, live far better than I did. Wealth gap? The poor have improved their living conditions. The wealthy have also gotten wealthier. What we called the robber barons, actually had greater wealth than the top 1% does today.
A major reason is the income tax and the inheritance tax. Roosevelt, (FDR) the creator of our current big government, actually inherited his huge wealth.

What I have, I EARNED. I inherited a little almost enough to pay the taxes some think I pay too little. My view, all should experience poverty. I gave me unique view. You can
earn your way out of poverty so long as you decide failure is not an option.
The US ranks about 30th on world lists for upward mobility and quality of life. The Scandanavian countries rank in the top ten. US people knock the Scandanavians - calling them "socialists". US people typically do NOT look at lists of where the US ranks worldwide because they assume that the US is at the top of everything. The US and China DO have the highest GNP, but the US ranks very LOW in qualities that are important to the average person. PLEASE look it up. It will SURPRISE you! People rationalize and say that those lists are not important because they will NOT be honest with themselves as to the TRUE nature of the US. The US WAS in the top ten BACK in OUR DAY (those fine fifties from say 1945 TO 1965). And we ALL still believe in that myth.

Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk have greater wealth than the lower 40% of US citizens. Roll that around in your brain cavity and state a conclusion. I doubt if you were being honest that it would be much different than my conclusion.

[Bogie Shooter]

It would be POSSIBLE to decrease black and white "friction". it would require a somewhat "big brother" solution that most people would NOT go for. But, for argument's sake, the government could increase the blending of races by paying women and couples to give birth by artificial insemination to children of races different from themselves. Increased blending would likely decrease friction. Of course, many people would find fault with such a system that it would NOT be utilized. I guess that it is possible that in a few hundred years that the whole earth's population is blended. And maybe even national borders are eliminated then?

I missed this chapter in the book 1984.......which chapter was it?

[DAVES]

That statement involves holding a grudge for a VERY long time. It also contains a smattering of racial overtones.

I for one am tired of the race card. It has been so overused, that I have built an immunity to it. It is effective because if you look for it you will see it even when it is not there. Perhaps, even more important it is impossible to prove I am not a racist so I will not even bother trying.

[Bogie Shooter]

Well I watched all of the footage, and I saw and heard George Floyd refusing to sit in the squad car, after refusing to get out of his own car and later struggle against four policemen. I saw him apparently quite high on something inside the store. I saw that he was a very large man in apparent excellent physical shape and he towered over the smaller police officers. It appeared to take all four to restrain him.

The cameras, nor the trial mentioned that George Floyd had been arrested and convicted for breaking into a home and holding a gun to the belly of a pregnant woman while four others robbed the home. He must have continued to do illegal things because the store clerk called the police in the first place because he passed a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. Correct me if I am wrong on either what I saw or what I read from sources I vetted.

You are not suggesting anyone with a record should just be eliminated.......are you?

[Aces4]

Suggested reading.....BLACK LIKE ME.......John Howard Griffin

Might give you a more realistic viewpoint

Right, because that book written 60 years ago is totally relevant now, good grief. Do race relations need work? Yes, however, the great inroads that were made into the problem are being lost by the constant yammering that everyone is racist. It is driving deep wedges were there were none. Have an in-depth conversation with a black pastor who can speak anonymously and it will help open your eyes.

[Aces4]

You are not suggesting anyone with a record should just be eliminated.......are you?

I believe she was pointing out that he had been a serious threat in the past. Are you aware people on drugs can be very difficult to control and on occasions have been able to remove weapons from officers?

[jimjamuser]

Well I watched all of the footage, and I saw and heard George Floyd refusing to sit in the squad car, after refusing to get out of his own car and later struggle against four policemen. I saw him apparently quite high on something inside the store. I saw that he was a very large man in apparent excellent physical shape and he towered over the smaller police officers. It appeared to take all four to restrain him.

The cameras, nor the trial mentioned that George Floyd had been arrested and convicted for breaking into a home and holding a gun to the belly of a pregnant woman while four others robbed the home. He must have continued to do illegal things because the store clerk called the police in the first place because he passed a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. Correct me if I am wrong on either what I saw or what I read from sources I vetted.
OK. There is a mild correction to be made. Inside the store, he appeared about as normal as the average person at any Walmart in the country. I have seen a lot worse. AT best he could be thought of as mildly high, not "quite" high. I see that as a perception thing.

I would not have liked to be killed (legally speaking-murdered) by Police officers for passing a $20 bill, which I might not even have known was counterfeit. And if they could not have handled him WITHOUT murdering him, then they needed to call for backup. Also, the Police have psychologists for situations like that - it is obvious that Floyd had acquired an unrealistic FEAR of Police somewhere in his lifetime. Many blacks have that same fear. Many whites have led sheltered lives of privilege that have insulated them from real-world Police encounters. So, my conclusion is that depending on people's background, they have different slants and perceptions on the Floyd incident. I think that the jury was correct!

[Aces4]

OK. There is a mild correction to be made. Inside the store, he appeared about as normal as the average person at any Walmart in the country. I have seen a lot worse. AT best he could be thought of as mildly high, not "quite" high. I see that as a perception thing.

I would not have liked to be killed (legally speaking-murdered) by Police officers for passing a $20 bill, which I might not even have known was counterfeit. And if they could not have handled him WITHOUT murdering him, then they needed to call for backup. Also, the Police have psychologists for situations like that - it is obvious that Floyd had acquired an unrealistic FEAR of Police somewhere in his lifetime. Many blacks have that same fear. Many whites have led sheltered lives of privilege that have insulated them from real-world Police encounters. So, my conclusion is that depending on people's background, they have different slants and perceptions on the Floyd incident. I think that the jury was correct!

I think if you would serve as a police officer for one week in the inner cities we would have even more “murders” like this. It’s easy to sit outside the equation and judge.

[DAVES]

I think that Steve Jobs knew exactly the degree that a camera phone would change people's lives. He probably thought constantly about change and technical innovation. He wanted his devices to be people-friendly not just expert-friendly. Derrick Chauvin had his life changed by the camera phone. And that could possibly end up as a landmark pivot in human and race relations?.

History shows that is wrong. The development of the Atomic bomb. Brilliant people thought it was impossible. Others perhaps some the same thought if we ever successfully created such a chain reaction it would continue till the earth consumed itself. Others, the Rosenbergs, illegally shared the information with Russia believing we must have balance.

We tend to think somethings are good some are evil. Some people/companies are good and some are evil. We tend to edit reality to support our views. Steve Jobs, Apple are not saints. They are influential they have changed our reality. We have no choice but to accept fact spinning. Aside-Apple allowed workers in China to be driven so hard that several workers committed suicide by jumping out the factory window.

In the real world nothing is 100% good or evil. Balance? That is not a clear line. It is usually a moving line. Often, usually, people think the line belongs in different places.
The simple reason for differing views. It should be clear to all it seems that solution is impossible till people look for a deal. A deal is not, can not be I get everything and you get nothing. Any such deal will sooner or later fail. History shows that is so.

[Luisa]

The "good old days" had one advantage - the wealth gap was decreasing!

The wealth gap is because of companies like Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, to name a few.

[Bogie Shooter]

I believe she was pointing out that he had been a serious threat in the past. Are you aware people on drugs can be very difficult to control and on occasions have been able to remove weapons from officers?

How were those officers aware of his past record, while pinning him to the pavement?

[DAVES]

OK. There is a mild correction to be made. Inside the store, he appeared about as normal as the average person at any Walmart in the country. I have seen a lot worse. AT best he could be thought of as mildly high, not "quite" high. I see that as a perception thing.

I would not have liked to be killed (legally speaking-murdered) by Police officers for passing a $20 bill, which I might not even have known was counterfeit. And if they could not have handled him WITHOUT murdering him, then they needed to call for backup. Also, the Police have psychologists for situations like that - it is obvious that Floyd had acquired an unrealistic FEAR of Police somewhere in his lifetime. Many blacks have that same fear. Many whites have led sheltered lives of privilege that have insulated them from real-world Police encounters. So, my conclusion is that depending on people's background, they have different slants and perceptions on the Floyd incident. I think that the jury was correct!

We all tend to spin facts to support our view. We due to language say such things as many whites. I am white. My dad was a wounded wwII COMBAT VET. We were poor.
I lived in a city housing project till I was 13. White privilege? Huh. Childhood issues?
I should get reparations because my parents taught me self responsibility. My parents taught me if you want something, if you need something you must work for it. Hum, clearly I should get reparations.

You do not choose the cards you are dealt, you do choose how you play them.

Obviously, I was not on the jury. I'm not sure how I would have voted. It should be clear to all that all were aware if they did not find the police officer guilty it would be yet another excuse for riots.

The drugs that Floyd was on were developed by the Germans in WWII. They suppress the centers of the brain that control what we call morality-this is wrong. They also suppress fear. The normal thought hey, I shouldn't do this. Floyd was no saint even the press tried to paint him as such. Floyd had a long and violent criminal record. Floyd out weighed the cop by over 50 lbs.

Proper verdict? I suppose it was the best verdict possible for we the people.

I do not claim to have answers. Whatever the verdict is there is no way it can or would end well.

[rustyp]

Well I watched all of the footage, and I saw and heard George Floyd refusing to sit in the squad car, after refusing to get out of his own car and later struggle against four policemen. I saw him apparently quite high on something inside the store. I saw that he was a very large man in apparent excellent physical shape and he towered over the smaller police officers. It appeared to take all four to restrain him.

The cameras, nor the trial mentioned that George Floyd had been arrested and convicted for breaking into a home and holding a gun to the belly of a pregnant woman while four others robbed the home. He must have continued to do illegal things because the store clerk called the police in the first place because he passed a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. Correct me if I am wrong on either what I saw or what I read from sources I vetted.

OMG - Have you ever sat on a jury ? George Floyd was not on trial. He could be the worst guy on earth - it don't matter. Did you listen to the part when the three laws were read word by word and the definitions of those words given. Then the jury is instructed that is the sole criteria the evidence is to be weighed against. Usually the judge will say something to the order of that is the law you are to rate against it and only it. You may not like the law but too bad. It is the law until it is changed the proper way and not for you to do something different at this time.

[Luisa]

I disagree with only one part of that post. Namely, the "things are pretty good". If things are so good, then WHY does the US have the greatest wealth disparity of 1st world nations. Things started going south in about 1975 when average wages no longer increased with respect to inflation.

In 1976 Steve Jobs built his first computer. The wealth gap increased with companies like Apple. It seems everyday Americans are blamed for a wealth gap made by a few ultra wealthy companies. There has also been a massive increase in immigration since 1975. It takes a couple of generations to catch up if you don’t read, write, or speak the language of the country you live in. I know this is getting off the original subject.

[Topspinmo]

So, I can’t record private conversation without consent and not be entered as evidence in courts of law, why taking video without consent allowed in court of law? What difference?

[jebartle]

We all tend to spin facts to support our view. We due to language say such things as many whites. I am white. My dad was a wounded wwII COMBAT VET. We were poor.
I lived in a city housing project till I was 13. White privilege? Huh. Childhood issues?
I should get reparations because my parents taught me self responsibility. My parents taught me if you want something, if you need something you must work for it. Hum, clearly I should get reparations.

You do not choose the cards you are dealt, you do choose how you play them.

Obviously, I was not on the jury. I'm not sure how I would have voted. It should be clear to all that all were aware if they did not find the police officer guilty it would be yet another excuse for riots.

The drugs that Floyd was on were developed by the Germans in WWII. They suppress the centers of the brain that control what we call morality-this is wrong. They also suppress fear. The normal thought hey, I shouldn't do this. Floyd was no saint even the press tried to paint him as such. Floyd had a long and violent criminal record. Floyd out weighed the cop by over 50 lbs.

Proper verdict? I suppose it was the best verdict possible for we the people.

I do not claim to have answers. Whatever the verdict is there is no way it can or would end well.

Obviously, if your vote was to aquit when police officers, doctors, experts testified under oath that Chauvin murdered Floyd, you would have been in the minority. Please, let's not forget, this was not about Floyd record or health, it was about nine and half minutes of Chauvin's knee on Floyd neck over a $20 contf. bill. Thank you Steve Job for camera phone.

[Chi-Town]

Getting back to cell phone cameras I and others have queried why so many posts that describe a scene don't seem to have any photos attached. Perhaps it's too hard to post them.
I want to see the panthers, bobcats, and coyotes.

[Luisa]

I disagree with only one part of that post. Namely, the "things are pretty good". If things are so good, then WHY does the US have the greatest wealth disparity of 1st world nations. Things started going south in about 1975 when average wages no longer increased with respect to inflation.

In 1976 Steve Jobs built his first computer. The wealth gap increased with companies like Apple. It seems everyday Americans are blamed for a wealth gap made by a few ultra wealthy companies. There has also been a massive increase in immigration since 1975. It takes a couple of generations to catch up if you don’t read, write, or speak the language of the country you live in. I know this is getting off the original subject.

[Luisa]

How were those officers aware of his past record, while pinning him to the pavement?

They communicate with dispatch when called to an incident.

[jimjamuser]

With the totally misleading and incomplete original "official" statement put out regarding Chauvin, which had to instantly be backtracked after that brave young lady's video came to light, it's only a guess as to the thousands and thousands of similar incidents that bad cops have gotten away with in the past. May the lying and automatic belief of anything an LEO says, over the actual filming of an incident - soon be a thing of the past. Such as the shooting of the girl with the knife, which under the circumstances, makes it hard to criticize the cop's unfortunate action.
The young (age 17) woman that held her camera despite the menacing situation of a Policeman in front of her. The Policemen knew deep down that they were doing the WRONG thing and did NOT want a record made of it. That young lady should be invited to the White House and receive a civilian medal of honor for bravery.

[jimjamuser]

The person in charge of wealth disparity is the person in charge of themselves. If you work hard and save, if you sacrifice and are careful, almost everyone can be financially comfortable, until someone comes into leadership who wants to spend your money for you.
I don't mean to be impolite, but I have to speak up because I VEHEMENTLY disagree with what was written! The wealth gap is not an individual issue. It really has nothing (zero) to do with ANY individual. It is an economic term that AGGREGATES large numbers of people (say in the US) and compares (for example) the wealth of the lowest 5% of the US to the TOP 5% wealthiest Americans. What you are talking about is closer to the economic term of UPWARD MOBILITY than wealth disparity. They are certainly related but different animals in defining economic conditions. The wealth gap decreased after WW2 primarily as white families secured good UNION jobs in the north. Blacks increased economic strength somewhat in the 1960s under President Johnson's Civil Rights legislation. After about 1975 the average US worker's wages remained stagnate, when inflation is considered, for around 35 years until only recently. As the average US citizen's wealth remained stagnate for about 40 years, the upper 10% of US society made great gains. The perfect example of this is Jack Welsh of GE who made a salary of 350 MILLION dollars per year - no one short of God is worth that much per year - GE stock went nowhere under Welsh, incidentally! So, the US wealth gap today is the highest of ANY 1st world nation. Incidentally, during that same time in Japan, CEOs took pride in NEVER making more than 10 times what their average line workers made. Think about that! If the US was more like Japan, then here in TV Land each person would probably have 2 times the wealth that they now have. So basically, "greed is good" for only the upper end of American society.

[jimjamuser]

I missed this chapter in the book 1984.......which chapter was it?
There was a later chapter added because of new research in DNA and stem cells.

[jimjamuser]

I for one am tired of the race card. It has been so overused, that I have built an immunity to it. It is effective because if you look for it you will see it even when it is not there. Perhaps, even more important it is impossible to prove I am not a racist so I will not even bother trying.
So, you would prefer to play without a full deck .....of cards? OK, your deal.

[Bucco]

Right, because that book written 60 years ago is totally relevant now, good grief. Do race relations need work? Yes, however, the great inroads that were made into the problem are being lost by the constant yammering that everyone is racist. It is driving deep wedges were there were none. Have an in-depth conversation with a black pastor who can speak anonymously and it will help open your eyes.

Never thought this would require clarification, but...

The book is intended to show the differences in growing up and the attitude given to you as a black person navigating through life. It is clearly spelled out and unfortunetly, the message remains the same.

Also, I was responding to a post that implied that..well said "The person in charge of wealth disparity is the person in charge of themselves. If you work hard and save, if you sacrifice and are careful, almost everyone can be financially comfortable, until someone comes into leadership who wants to spend your money for you"

Ignoring the last sentence, it is total and complete folly that this applies to everyone. I speak not only of black skinned, but anyone in the world.....you need luck, help, a strong support group, etc. to succeed in life.

Those who think it is that easy are in a fantasy world, and I know that many who are doing fine, but recognize the factors that helped would agree. Many were born into it...many lucked into it.

Not that the attributes described are not goals to ascribe to,but thinking doing those things assures a good life just don't get it.

Many blacks had a heck of a lot more walls to climb than most, and the book lays it out well.

[Bucco]

So, you would prefer to play without a full deck .....of cards? OK, your deal.

LOL.....factually, in many cases HALF A DECK. Black skin in an employment office in most, not all cases, have a much higher hill to climb.

[jimjamuser]

Right, because that book written 60 years ago is totally relevant now, good grief. Do race relations need work? Yes, however, the great inroads that were made into the problem are being lost by the constant yammering that everyone is racist. It is driving deep wedges were there were none. Have an in-depth conversation with a black pastor who can speak anonymously and it will help open your eyes.
There are so many wedges in US society........where to start? I guess, the 1st one to overcome would be that dreaded wealth gap

[jimjamuser]

I think if you would serve as a police officer for one week in the inner cities we would have even more “murders” like this. It’s easy to sit outside the equation and judge.
Personally. I think that society needs "good cops" and that they do have a hard job that they should be paid well for. But, here we are talking ONLY about a BAD cop. The US Attorney General is starting an investigation into the procedures and attitudes of the Minneapolis Police. That should serve as a wake-up call to Police Departments everywhere that the US Justice system is becoming more transparent and FAIR.

[jimjamuser]

.

History shows that is wrong. The development of the Atomic bomb. Brilliant people thought it was impossible. Others perhaps some the same thought if we ever successfully created such a chain reaction it would continue till the earth consumed itself. Others, the Rosenbergs, illegally shared the information with Russia believing we must have balance.

We tend to think somethings are good some are evil. Some people/companies are good and some are evil. We tend to edit reality to support our views. Steve Jobs, Apple are not saints. They are influential they have changed our reality. We have no choice but to accept fact spinning. Aside-Apple allowed workers in China to be driven so hard that several workers committed suicide by jumping out the factory window.

In the real world nothing is 100% good or evil. Balance? That is not a clear line. It is usually a moving line. Often, usually, people think the line belongs in different places.
The simple reason for differing views. It should be clear to all it seems that solution is impossible till people look for a deal. A deal is not, can not be I get everything and you get nothing. Any such deal will sooner or later fail. History shows that is so.
I fail to see the connection with my post?

[jimjamuser]

The wealth gap is because of companies like Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, to name a few.
True, but more basic - is lax US tax policy that is practically written by corporations!

[Aces4]

Personally. I think that society needs "good cops" and that they do have a hard job that they should be paid well for. But, here we are talking ONLY about a BAD cop. The US Attorney General is starting an investigation into the procedures and attitudes of the Minneapolis Police. That should serve as a wake-up call to Police Departments everywhere that the US Justice system is becoming more transparent and FAIR.

I guess if you aren’t a current or retired officer, I don’t value your wake-up call to cops everywhere. Walk the walk...

Almost all officers are not guilty of poor conduct but we need the broad brush, just like the racism brush.

[Aces4]

There are so many wedges in US society........where to start? I guess, the 1st one to overcome would be that dreaded wealth gap

We must kill capitalism and incentive, what is this country thinking? We must all try to float to the bottom and stay there. After all, we all know you can get something for nothing.

[jimjamuser]

We all tend to spin facts to support our view. We due to language say such things as many whites. I am white. My dad was a wounded wwII COMBAT VET. We were poor.
I lived in a city housing project till I was 13. White privilege? Huh. Childhood issues?
I should get reparations because my parents taught me self responsibility. My parents taught me if you want something, if you need something you must work for it. Hum, clearly I should get reparations.

You do not choose the cards you are dealt, you do choose how you play them.

Obviously, I was not on the jury. I'm not sure how I would have voted. It should be clear to all that all were aware if they did not find the police officer guilty it would be yet another excuse for riots.

The drugs that Floyd was on were developed by the Germans in WWII. They suppress the centers of the brain that control what we call morality-this is wrong. They also suppress fear. The normal thought hey, I shouldn't do this. Floyd was no saint even the press tried to paint him as such. Floyd had a long and violent criminal record. Floyd out weighed the cop by over 50 lbs.

Proper verdict? I suppose it was the best verdict possible for we the people.

I do not claim to have answers. Whatever the verdict is there is no way it can or would end well.
Actually, it did end well! Justice was served. A grieving family got the justice that they wanted, but were probably surprised that they got. A large town can go back to living normally. Human rights moved forward slowly and incrementally. Now it is up to Congress to give our whole country the human rights laws that we expect and take for granted. We ALL witnessed History and a pivotal moment in time. Lots of positives!

[jimjamuser]

In 1976 Steve Jobs built his first computer. The wealth gap increased with companies like Apple. It seems everyday Americans are blamed for a wealth gap made by a few ultra wealthy companies. There has also been a massive increase in immigration since 1975. It takes a couple of generations to catch up if you don’t read, write, or speak the language of the country you live in. I know this is getting off the original subject.
That is very true about increased immigration since 1975. And yes, it would have a considerable effect on all things US of A.

[jimjamuser]

So, I can’t record private conversation without consent and not be entered as evidence in courts of law, why taking video without consent allowed in court of law? What difference?
Because it took place in a public road where NO ONE has a reasonable right to expect privacy!

[graciegirl]

This is strange weather. I feel a lot of Cold no more.

[stanley]

This is strange weather. I feel a lot of Cold no more.

Ya think?

[B-flat]

I believe she was pointing out that he had been a serious threat in the past. Are you aware people on drugs can be very difficult to control and on occasions have been able to remove weapons from officers?

Plus one!

[B-flat]

I for one am tired of the race card. It has been so overused, that I have built an immunity to it. It is effective because if you look for it you will see it even when it is not there. Perhaps, even more important it is impossible to prove I am not a racist so I will not even bother trying.

Add me to that list!