Law to Stop Video of Police Abuse

[blueash]

Chauvin sits in jail now, not because of citizen complaints, not because of his own body camera, not because his peers reported his behavior. He is only in jail because of the video taken by a teenager who then posted her video on the internet. The Federal Courts have held that police could not prohibit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glik_v._Cunniffe#:~:text=2011)%20is%20a%20case%20i n,First%20and%20Fourth%20Amendment%20rights.) citizens from filming their behavior. It had been common for police to seize cameras back in the good old days. This protected right to film in public is actually is new, only in the last 15 years.

In response to this ability to hold bad cops responsible for bad behavior, the Oklahoma legislature is in the process of finalizing a law that will make it illegal to put a video of a cop online if it might make him really unhappy or cost him his job.
The law is supposedly to prevent doxing. No problem with that as a goal. But then it sneaks a couple extra lines into the language. You can read the bill HERE (http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2021-22%20INT/hB/HB2273%20INT.PDF)

It is very short. It prohibits web publication if such would
cause substantial emotional distress or financial loss to the law enforcement officer, or to the family

Clearly if a video like that of Chauvin were made in Oklahoma after this passes, the person who shot the video, Darnella Frazier, would be charged. Chauvin and his family certainly suffered emotional distress and financial loss.

You say I must be making this up. Read the bill. It prohibits publication of

"Personally identifiable information" includes, but is not limited to:
a. name,
b. birth date,
c. address,
d. telephone number,
e. driver license number,
f. Social Security number,
g. place of employment,
h. mother's maiden name, or
i. a photograph or any other realistic likeness of the person.

Under this law if your video or still photo showed the name of the cop, his name tag, you are in violation. If it shows what police department he works for, you are in violation, if it shows his face you are in violation. Who is pushing this agenda? Why are the members of the Oklahoma legislature putting this through? Lines A, G, and I have only one goal, preventing the public from being able to police bad police.

If you want to prevent doxing, get rid of several of these items. Many on this forum have suggested that no one wants to protect the bad cops. Apparently a lot of people in Oklahoma have no problem with a law that will do just that, until of course the courts overturn this attempt to punish the public for providing documentation of those cops.

[tvbound]

There are plenty of officials, who don't want their misdeeds, bias', racism/bigotry or just outright ineptitude recorded. In a similar vein, this former retired chief medical examiner (who testified for the defense and suggested the ridiculous carbon monoxide red herring) is now having 17 years of cases he was in charge of reviewed.

Maryland in-custody deaths to be reviewed after former medical examiner testified in Chauvin trial (https://www.yahoo.com/news/maryland-custody-deaths-reviewed-former-030600138.html)

"The letter to the Maryland attorney general and others came from former Washington, D.C., chief medical examiner Roger A. Mitchell and was signed by over 400 doctors, according to The Sun."

Along with the brave young lady that showed the world Chauvin's actions, recording the trial has also flushed out some of the injustices done in the past and hopefully will lead to them being reduced in the future.

[graciegirl]

Chauvin sits in jail now, not because of citizen complaints, not because of his own body camera, not because his peers reported his behavior. He is only in jail because of the video taken by a teenager who then posted her video on the internet. The Federal Courts have held that police could not prohibit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glik_v._Cunniffe#:~:text=2011)%20is%20a%20case%20i n,First%20and%20Fourth%20Amendment%20rights.) citizens from filming their behavior. It had been common for police to seize cameras back in the good old days. This protected right to film in public is actually is new, only in the last 15 years.

In response to this ability to hold bad cops responsible for bad behavior, the Oklahoma legislature is in the process of finalizing a law that will make it illegal to put a video of a cop online if it might make him really unhappy or cost him his job.
The law is supposedly to prevent doxing. No problem with that as a goal. But then it sneaks a couple extra lines into the language. You can read the bill HERE (http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2021-22%20INT/hB/HB2273%20INT.PDF)

It is very short. It prohibits web publication if such would


Clearly if a video like that of Chauvin were made in Oklahoma after this passes, the person who shot the video, Darnella Frazier, would be charged. Chauvin and his family certainly suffered emotional distress and financial loss.

You say I must be making this up. Read the bill. It prohibits publication of



Under this law if your video or still photo showed the name of the cop, his name tag, you are in violation. If it shows what police department he works for, you are in violation, if it shows his face you are in violation. Who is pushing this agenda? Why are the members of the Oklahoma legislature putting this through? Lines A, G, and I have only one goal, preventing the public from being able to police bad police.

If you want to prevent doxing, get rid of several of these items. Many on this forum have suggested that no one wants to protect the bad cops. Apparently a lot of people in Oklahoma have no problem with a law that will do just that, until of course the courts overturn this attempt to punish the public for providing documentation of those cops.
I think it is entirely possible that Derek Chauvin was an unprincipled person. I feel almost sure that George Floyd was an unprincipled person. I know, I know, we need to give everyone a new chance. George Floyd was arrested and sentenced to a penitentiary for several years for breaking into a private home and holding a gun to the belly of a pregnant woman, allowing three accomplices in to rob the home. He moved to Minnesota for a "new start". The police were called because he tried to pass a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. The camera's inside the store showed him swaying slightly and appearing to be under the influence of something. He got into a car with several other people who later refused to answer questions and took the fifth amendment as reason. I have to think they were somehow involved with buying or selling drugs, or they could have just been very private and did not want to answer questions. At the time that Derek Chauvin allowed George Floyd to die with neck pressure, that maneuver was allowed as a means of restraint. Clearly the other means of restraint used by FOUR MEN were not working. I don't know what I would have done if it had been MY job to arrest him. I believe in my heart that it would have been a dilemma whether or not he was high on drugs, and even if he was a skinny white Episcopalian. Derek Chauvin was there to arrest him and he continued to struggle hard physically. I think this has been made a racist issue above all other considerations. AND maybe it is. I am skeptical.

I am skeptical about whether this issue of "doxing" could be a red herring. I am thinking a lot of scary thoughts. Maybe because I think that people who are generally responsible and ethical worry about being at the mercy of people who are not generally responsible and ethical.

[blueash]

This law will only protect law enforcement. If you are a private citizen who misbehaves in a public park, saying yelling at a Black family for playing music too loud.. Your behavior can be recorded and posted on the internet. Or you are shopping at Walmart in your curlers or revealing clothes, there is a whole genre of online posting of those people. No protecting for your face or body from this legislation.

If you are a firefighter, no protection. If you are a paramedic, no protection. What is there about police that they need special protection against being caused emotional distress when their actions are exposed to the public? Don't want to be embarrassed? Don't do something that will reflect badly on you. Simple. This is a radical knee jerk reaction to an evil cop getting caught by the public. We need more of that, not less.

[Taltarzac725]

Looks like a bad law written by mediocre politicians and directed at getting more support from the worst of their backers.

[blueash]

I think it is entirely possible that Derek Chauvin was an unprincipled person. I feel almost sure that George Floyd was an unprincipled person. I know, I know, we need to give everyone a new chance. George Floyd was arrested and sentenced to a penitentiary for several years for breaking into a private home and holding a gun to the belly of a pregnant woman, allowing three accomplices in to rob the home. He moved to Minnesota for a "new start". The police were called because he tried to pass a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. The camera's inside the store showed him swaying slightly and appearing to be under the influence of something. He got into a car with several other people who later refused to answer questions and took the fifth amendment as reason. I have to think they were somehow involved with buying or selling drugs, or they could have just been very private and did not want to answer questions. At the time that Derek Chauvin allowed George Floyd to die with neck pressure, that maneuver was allowed as a means of restraint. Clearly the other means of restraint used by FOUR MEN were not working. I don't know what I would have done if it had been MY job to arrest him. I believe in my heart that it would have been a dilemma whether or not he was high on drugs, and even if he was a skinny white Episcopalian. Derek Chauvin was there to arrest him and he continued to struggle hard physically. I think this has been made a racist issue above all other considerations. AND maybe it is. I am skeptical.

Gracie, I think you try to be fair and even. But you are guilty of both siderism. It does not matter what George Floyd's past criminal history might have been. It does not matter what the other people were doing in the car. Clearly they were using drugs. What mattered in the Chauvin case was that he killed Floyd well after any need to subdue him existed.
The knee : " that maneuver was allowed as a means of restraint." You are 100% wrong about that. His own chief of police testified (https://news.yahoo.com/police-chief-chauvins-neck-restraint-on-george-floyd-absolutely-violated-department-policies-210506791.html) about the technique Chauvin was using and for how long he used it. It was only permitted for seconds not for nine minutes (https://apnews.com/article/was-officer-knee-on-george-floyd-neck-authorized-639cab5a670173ea9cc311db4386abf2). The trainer for the city testified "That's not what we train" (https://www.npr.org/sections/trial-over-killing-of-george-floyd/2021/04/05/984587443/former-training-commander-on-chauvin-neck-restraint-thats-not-what-we-train) Please stop making up false facts to fit your preference.
If a cop is allowed to punch you once to gain control, that does not mean he can punch you for nine minutes until you stop breathing and your heart stops beating and then claim that throwing a punch is allowed.

I know you are not a pharmacologist but the drug he had in his system are sedatives not agitators. Fentanyl will not make you violent. He was not a danger to Chauvin because of the drugs he took. He was not resisting once he was on the ground.

One of the other officers checked Floyd for a pulse several minutes into the time Chauvin was on his neck. The other officer reported that there was no pulse. What did Chauvin do? He never moved. He stayed on the neck of Floyd even when a fellow office told him the man had no pulse. Did he release his pressure. No, Did he start CPR, no. Instead he continued to apply neck pressure in a way NOT approved by the Minneapolis Police. And he did not move until the EMT's ordered him to move.

Gracie, your inability to see Mr Floyd as a human being is sad to me because I'd expect you to know that even people with problems deserve respect if not love.

This sentence tells me you are failing to grasp the truth when it is right in front of you

Derek Chauvin allowed George Floyd to die

He did not "allow" him to die. He murdered him.

And now the State of Oklahoma is passing a law to make it easier for the next Chauvin to get away with murder.

[tvbound]

Gracie, I think you try to be fair and even. But you are guilty of both siderism. It does not matter what George Floyd's past criminal history might have been. It does not matter what the other people were doing in the car. Clearly they were using drugs. What mattered in the Chauvin case was that he killed Floyd well after any need to subdue him existed.
The knee : " that maneuver was allowed as a means of restraint." You are 100% wrong about that. His own chief of police testified (https://news.yahoo.com/police-chief-chauvins-neck-restraint-on-george-floyd-absolutely-violated-department-policies-210506791.html) about the technique Chauvin was using and for how long he used it. It was only permitted for seconds not for nine minutes (https://apnews.com/article/was-officer-knee-on-george-floyd-neck-authorized-639cab5a670173ea9cc311db4386abf2). The trainer for the city testified "That's not what we train" (https://www.npr.org/sections/trial-over-killing-of-george-floyd/2021/04/05/984587443/former-training-commander-on-chauvin-neck-restraint-thats-not-what-we-train) Please stop making up false facts to fit your preference.
If a cop is allowed to punch you once to gain control, that does not mean he can punch you for nine minutes until you stop breathing and your heart stops beating and then claim that throwing a punch is allowed.

I know you are not a pharmacologist but the drug he had in his system are sedatives not agitators. Fentanyl will not make you violent. He was not a danger to Chauvin because of the drugs he took. He was not resisting once he was on the ground.

One of the other officers checked Floyd for a pulse several minutes into the time Chauvin was on his neck. The other officer reported that there was no pulse. What did Chauvin do? He never moved. He stayed on the neck of Floyd even when a fellow office told him the man had no pulse. Did he release his pressure. No, Did he start CPR, no. Instead he continued to apply neck pressure in a way NOT approved by the Minneapolis Police. And he did not move until the EMT's ordered him to move.

Gracie, your inability to see Mr Floyd as a human being is sad to me because I'd expect you to know that even people with problems deserve respect if not love.

This sentence tells me you are failing to grasp the truth when it is right in front of you



He did not "allow" him to die. He murdered him.

And now the State of Oklahoma is passing a law to make it easier for the next Chauvin to get away with murder.


" Please stop making up false facts to fit your preference."

Exactly. In the aftermath of the just verdict, this is becoming popular among a large demographic. Now we just have to wait and see during the sentencing, whether the judge is part of that same demographic.

[bob47]

I just read a book by John Grisham, "The Innocent Man". Written in 2006, it is his first non-fiction novel, based on criminal cases in Oklahoma in the 1980s. It is claimed to be meticulously researched.

It gives some insight into how a few, not totally upstanding citizens, were abused by a corrupt criminal justice system. Perhaps unfair treatment by the criminal justice system in Oklahoma is not so uncommon.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I just read a book by John Grisham, "The Innocent Man". Written in 2006, it is his first non-fiction novel, based on criminal cases in Oklahoma in the 1980s. It is claimed to be meticulously researched.

It gives some insight into how a few, not totally upstanding citizens, were abused by a corrupt criminal justice system. Perhaps unfair treatment by the criminal justice system in Oklahoma is not so uncommon.

Perhaps? Heh. I see a lot of "maybe" and "I think possibly" and "perhaps" when it comes to the notion that one segment of the population commits atrocities upon another segment of the population.

And then when looking at that other segment, I see a lot of "well he had it coming" and "he was on drugs" or "he committed crimes before" or "he was already a bad man."

Lots of excuses and perhapses and maybes about why one group would commit atrocities on another. Lots of head-nodding about how obviously the victims belonging to that other group deserved it.

[jimbomaybe]

perhaps you are right ,but would in not be informative if all of the police body camera videos would be made public showing how experience guides the action of law enforcement ? I am unaware of any jurisdiction that allows the release of day to day body camera videos, police officers are public officials on public business why not release the videos if not needed for prosecution and why not after ?

[graciegirl]

Gracie, I think you try to be fair and even. But you are guilty of both siderism. It does not matter what George Floyd's past criminal history might have been. It does not matter what the other people were doing in the car. Clearly they were using drugs. What mattered in the Chauvin case was that he killed Floyd well after any need to subdue him existed.
The knee : " that maneuver was allowed as a means of restraint." You are 100% wrong about that. His own chief of police testified (https://news.yahoo.com/police-chief-chauvins-neck-restraint-on-george-floyd-absolutely-violated-department-policies-210506791.html) about the technique Chauvin was using and for how long he used it. It was only permitted for seconds not for nine minutes (https://apnews.com/article/was-officer-knee-on-george-floyd-neck-authorized-639cab5a670173ea9cc311db4386abf2). The trainer for the city testified "That's not what we train" (https://www.npr.org/sections/trial-over-killing-of-george-floyd/2021/04/05/984587443/former-training-commander-on-chauvin-neck-restraint-thats-not-what-we-train) Please stop making up false facts to fit your preference.
If a cop is allowed to punch you once to gain control, that does not mean he can punch you for nine minutes until you stop breathing and your heart stops beating and then claim that throwing a punch is allowed.

I know you are not a pharmacologist but the drug he had in his system are sedatives not agitators. Fentanyl will not make you violent. He was not a danger to Chauvin because of the drugs he took. He was not resisting once he was on the ground.

One of the other officers checked Floyd for a pulse several minutes into the time Chauvin was on his neck. The other officer reported that there was no pulse. What did Chauvin do? He never moved. He stayed on the neck of Floyd even when a fellow office told him the man had no pulse. Did he release his pressure. No, Did he start CPR, no. Instead he continued to apply neck pressure in a way NOT approved by the Minneapolis Police. And he did not move until the EMT's ordered him to move.

Gracie, your inability to see Mr Floyd as a human being is sad to me because I'd expect you to know that even people with problems deserve respect if not love.

This sentence tells me you are failing to grasp the truth when it is right in front of you



He did not "allow" him to die. He murdered him.

And now the State of Oklahoma is passing a law to make it easier for the next Chauvin to get away with murder.

Doctor, I think you try to be fair and even. This sentence tells me that you are failing to grasp the truth when it is right in front of you.

"It does not matter what George Floyd's past criminal history might have been. "

It really DOES matter to everyone; to fathers worrying about the people their children date, to people trying to find honest contractors, to people who live alone, to people who allow children to go to play at other people's homes. To people who want to live in a safe area, To people who want to trust everyone. To people who do not have a criminal history because they made choices that were sometimes quite difficult.

Maybe the judge can keep that information from the jurors, but it does matter. It always matters. It REALLY matters. It matters, Doctor. YOU have your opinion and your summary judgement, and I have mine.

[blueash]

perhaps you are right ,but would in not be informative if all of the police body camera videos would be made public showing how experience guides the action of law enforcement ? I am unaware of any jurisdiction that allows the release of day to day body camera videos, police officers are public officials on public business why not release the videos if not needed for prosecution and why not after ?

That's easy. Police by the nature of their job see the worst of human behavior. They have a responsibility to protect and serve, not to make public the video of you being at your worst. You might be naked in your home when they enter, you might be an innocent bystander at an event where you wouldn't want your boss to know you were present. There is a real need for body cameras, both to show what a criminal was doing and to show what the cop was doing. Only in situations where there is a need to prove a situation happened as it was described is release in the public interest.

I present a real case where release was needed but it was very embarrassing for an innocent person. A call was make by a woman claiming a man was violating a restraining order by being near her. She gave only a general description of the area and nothing about the man. The caller disconnected before the 911 operator got these important details. The cops drove down the street, jumped out of the car and grabbed the first black man they saw as he took out his garbage to the street. They did not calmly question him, they manhandled him and his girlfriend saw it. She came out in her bathrobe and in the struggle was undressed completely, the cops camera now on the ground is pointing up at her crotch, fully visible on the video. This has now been released without any pixelating or privacy. The cops grabbed a totally innocent man and undressed a woman trying to protect her man from being manhandled.

No, all video should not be public. I would support that the object of the video should be able to immediately get access to the video, not only once the police have reviewed it and deemed it appropriate.

[Bill14564]

Doctor, I think you try to be fair and even. This sentence tells me that you are failing to grasp the truth when it is right in front of you.

"It does not matter what George Floyd's past criminal history might have been. "

It really DOES matter to everyone; to fathers worrying about the people their children date, to people trying to find honest contractors, to people who live alone, to people who allow children to go to play at other people's homes. To people who want to live in a safe area, To people who want to trust everyone. To people who do not have a criminal history because they made choices that were sometimes quite difficult.

Maybe the judge can keep that information from the jurors, but it does matter. It always matters. It REALLY matters. It matters, Doctor. YOU have your opinion and your summary judgement, and I have mine.

Count me I the group who feels a human being should not have been treated that way in that situation. What he might have done previously does not matter and does not justify what was done in that situation.

[blueash]

Doctor, I think you try to be fair and even. This sentence tells me that you are failing to grasp the truth when it is right in front of you.

"It does not matter what George Floyd's past criminal history might have been. "

It really DOES matter to everyone; to fathers worrying about the people their children date, to people trying to find honest contractors, to people who live alone, to people who allow children to go to play at other people's homes. To people who want to live in a safe area, To people who want to trust everyone. To people who do not have a criminal history because they made choices that were sometimes quite difficult.

Maybe the judge can keep that information from the jurors, but it does matter. It always matters. It REALLY matters. It matters, Doctor. YOU have your opinion and your summary judgement, and I have mine.

Gracie, you know the context of my statement that Mr Floyd's history does not matter, and you KNOW I meant in context to Chauvin's actions.

If, as a father, he came to pick up my daughter for a date, and I knew his history I still don't have a right to kill him. If I am hiring a contractor and he bids on it and I learn his history, I don't have a right to kill him. If I live in a "safe" neighborhood and he is walking down the street wearing a sign that says "I AM A DRUG USING CRIMINAL" I don't have a right to kill him.

Is this sinking in yet? His past history does not impact how Chauvin's nine minutes on his neck are judged. I know, big scary Black man right? It does not matter. Neither you, nor I, nor convicted murderer Chauvin have the right to kill him.

[graciegirl]

Count me I the group who feels a human being should not have been treated that way in that situation. What he might have done previously does not matter and does not justify what was done in that situation.

I will count you as such.

I will also say that what he had done previously does matter. When someone says "He is a known felon" that does sway the opinion of most people. DEREK CHAUVIN may have not been a great cop, in fact may have been a lousy police officer, but he did not deliberately aim to kill the man. He was trying to restrain him. He was trying to restrain him. George Floyd would be alive today in a cell somewhere, if he had sit when he was told to SIT.

WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE EXACTLY, in that situation if it was you and George Floyd, Bill???????????? Pretend he is white. Pretend he is Asian. Pretend he is Australian Aboriginal. Pretend he is a Pacific Islander. I don't see race as a factor here. But maybe YOU do???

[graciegirl]

Gracie, you know the context of my statement that Mr Floyd's history does not matter, and you KNOW I meant in context to Chauvin's actions.

If, as a father, he came to pick up my daughter for a date, and I knew his history I still don't have a right to kill him. If I am hiring a contractor and he bids on it and I learn his history, I don't have a right to kill him. If I live in a "safe" neighborhood and he is walking down the street wearing a sign that says "I AM A DRUG USING CRIMINAL" I don't have a right to kill him.

Is this sinking in yet? His past history does not impact how Chauvin's nine minutes on his neck are judged. I know, big scary Black man right? It does not matter. Neither you, nor I, nor convicted murderer Chauvin have the right to kill him.


Please do NOT talk down to me.

[Bill14564]

I will count you as such.

I will also say that what he had done previously does matter. When someone says "He is a known felon" that does sway the opinion of most people. DEREK CHAUVIN may have not been a great cop, in fact may have been a lousy police officer, but he did not deliberately aim to kill the man. He was trying to restrain him. He was trying to restrain him. George Floyd would be alive today in a cell somewhere, if he had sit when he was told to SIT.

WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE EXACTLY, in that situation if it was you and George Floyd, Bill???????????? Pretend he is white. Pretend he is Asian. Pretend he is Australian Aboriginal. Pretend he is a Pacific Islander. I don't see race as a factor here. But maybe YOU do???

At the VERY least, when he stopped moving, when he stopped breathing, when the other officer could not find a pulse, I would have pivoted to trying to save the life of the human being.I

EDIT: Imply that I may be racist just once more and my ignore list will grow again.

[graciegirl]

" Please stop making up false facts to fit your preference."

Exactly. In the aftermath of the just verdict, this is becoming popular among a large demographic. Now we just have to wait and see during the sentencing, whether the judge is part of that same demographic.

Sir/Madam. It is apparent that YOU are part of a large demographic that seems to walk in lock-step as well. Watch your thinking. It is bigoted to think of groups as all thinking alike. For instance;.... Many people think of a group that does not get vaccinated against Covid-19. Sumter county who is largely from that group .... has the highest vaccination percentage of all of the counties in Florida.

[Aces4]

Sir/Madam. It is apparent that YOU are part of a large demographic that seems to walk in lock-step as well. Watch your thinking. It is bigoted to think of groups as all thinking alike. For instance;.... Many people think of a group that does not get vaccinated against Covid-19. Sumter county who is largely from that group .... has the highest vaccination percentage of all of the counties in Florida.

I agree with you, Gracie, that other demographic which insists you follow their creed in this matter borders on the ridiculous. As they all sit in the just about lily-white Villages and would be the first to call the police if they felt threatened. They wouldn’t dream of living in the poorest areas of inner city neighborhoods, building their homes there to lift the communities or invite people in those neighborhoods to dine and socialize with them. Yet they have no problem assessing punishment for the death of a man who was already struggling in the car to breathe from his fatal ingestion of drugs. If you want to school people about how to live their lives, do what their doing. Roll up your sleeves and get to work. Stop pontificating.

[lkagele]

Count me I the group who feels a human being should not have been treated that way in that situation. What he might have done previously does not matter and does not justify what was done in that situation.

Agree and disagree. Absolutely correct. No person should be treated in that manner.

Past history not mattering? It does to me. There's no history of turning his life around. He was being investigated for doing something wrong; not because he was doing good. I will not kneel 9 minutes for him. I will not consider him a martyr or a saint. I will not mourn his death. The criminal responsible for his death is going to jail and that's enough for me.

[jimbomaybe]

"No, all video should not be public. I would support that the object of the video should be able to immediately get access to the video, not only once the police have reviewed it and deemed it appropriate."
__________________ I think it would be informative if video of any and all arrest situation were made public. clearly a public matter with the public having a right to know

[Skunky1]

Oklahoma lawmakers are a bit messed up. They are trying to pass a law or maybe already passed to allow protesters to be run over by cars trucks etc.

If you see something get out your camera and video record what’s going on and post it as soon as you can.

The new saying is ,see something ,record it and report it.

[Cobullymom]

Doctor, I think you try to be fair and even. This sentence tells me that you are failing to grasp the truth when it is right in front of you.

"It does not matter what George Floyd's past criminal history might have been. "

It really DOES matter to everyone; to fathers worrying about the people their children date, to people trying to find honest contractors, to people who live alone, to people who allow children to go to play at other people's homes. To people who want to live in a safe area, To people who want to trust everyone. To people who do not have a criminal history because they made choices that were sometimes quite difficult.

Maybe the judge can keep that information from the jurors, but it does matter. It always matters. It REALLY matters. It matters, Doctor. YOU have your opinion and your summary judgement, and I have mine.
Agreed, it does matter, if he had been an upstanding citizen, he would have never been there in the first place, nor been completely wacked out on multiple drugs, nor resisting arrest, nor yelling while standing there “I can’t breathe”, nor fighting them about getting in the car, they obviously became aware at one point he was a repeat felony offender and was violent...I believe that some of these videos aren’t telling the whole story, just a clip of a bigger event and can become inflammatory because they don’t know the whole story and we see what reactions had became of this mess...If you believe it’s ok for a portion of citizens to burn, riot, trash, destroy and murder others in retaliation you are the problem...

[BillY41]

If you are in your car and surrounded by the non-peaceful demonstrators whom intend harm to you; you now attempt to flee the er protestors and knock one down with your vehicle. Who gets arrested? Yes, you. This law will prevent that. Sign the law!

[Tom2172]

Censored Discussion no longer permitted that’s where we are now!
Nothing matters it’s all BS

[BillY41]

Our police have an arduous job enough without someone anoying them with a cell phone camera. I bet those keyboard commandos wouldn't get out of their home or car and record a crime in progress. Heck, many wouldn't even dial 911. Police are a microcosm of our society most good some not.

[J1ceasar]

There are about 18,000 deaths of blacks by blacks yearly . About 250 by police . If I was black, I'd worry alot more about my friends

[tsmall22204]

He is in jail for murdering a man. He deserves to be there. If a cop does his job correctly he will not fear a video.

[Debra Freeman]

I think you need to read Oklahoma’s law being proposed again. It refers to officer’s and their release of certain videos. It is as follows:

OKLAHOMA CITY (KFOR) – The Oklahoma Senate Judiciary Committee approved a bill that prohibits law enforcement agencies from releasing audio or video of an officer dying in the line of duty unless a court orders it released in specific cases.

Senate Bill 968 prohibits the release of audio/video of an officer dying in the line of duty, as well as events leading to the officer’s death. However, such a video can be released if a court finds that either public interest or individual interest outweighs the reason for denial, a Senate Communications Division news release states.

[crash]

I think it is entirely possible that Derek Chauvin was an unprincipled person. I feel almost sure that George Floyd was an unprincipled person. I know, I know, we need to give everyone a new chance. George Floyd was arrested and sentenced to a penitentiary for several years for breaking into a private home and holding a gun to the belly of a pregnant woman, allowing three accomplices in to rob the home. He moved to Minnesota for a "new start". The police were called because he tried to pass a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. The camera's inside the store showed him swaying slightly and appearing to be under the influence of something. He got into a car with several other people who later refused to answer questions and took the fifth amendment as reason. I have to think they were somehow involved with buying or selling drugs, or they could have just been very private and did not want to answer questions. At the time that Derek Chauvin allowed George Floyd to die with neck pressure, that maneuver was allowed as a means of restraint. Clearly the other means of restraint used by FOUR MEN were not working. I don't know what I would have done if it had been MY job to arrest him. I believe in my heart that it would have been a dilemma whether or not he was high on drugs, and even if he was a skinny white Episcopalian. Derek Chauvin was there to arrest him and he continued to struggle hard physically. I think this has been made a racist issue above all other considerations. AND maybe it is. I am skeptical.

I am skeptical about whether this issue of "doxing" could be a red herring. I am thinking a lot of scary thoughts. Maybe because I think that people who are generally responsible and ethical worry about being at the mercy of people who are not generally responsible and ethical.

Wow watch the video and believe your eyes. Know one deserves a death sentence for passing a counterfeit bill. His past also does not deserve the death sentence. There was a trained paramedic there that said he wasn’t breathing and offered her service to check him and was ordered back on the sidewalk. He totally stopped moving and breathing but the choke hold was continued. Chauvin had 17 prior complaints of excess force. There are bad cops and we need to make it possible to get rid of them not the entire police force. This law is a case of shoot the messenger.

[ithos]

Regarding the obligation of rendering medical aid by the police, it is interesting to note that even the paramedics refused to do so at the scene.

Bravinder said a crowd of people had gathered on the sidewalk and they appeared very “upset” and were yelling.

"We wanted to get away from that" because trying to resuscitate someone can be difficult and requires focus, he said.

Bravinder parked the ambulance about two blocks away. Once in back of the ambulance, he saw the cardiac monitor showing a flat line – indicating no heart activity.

[tvbound]

Gracie, you know the context of my statement that Mr Floyd's history does not matter, and you KNOW I meant in context to Chauvin's actions.

If, as a father, he came to pick up my daughter for a date, and I knew his history I still don't have a right to kill him. If I am hiring a contractor and he bids on it and I learn his history, I don't have a right to kill him. If I live in a "safe" neighborhood and he is walking down the street wearing a sign that says "I AM A DRUG USING CRIMINAL" I don't have a right to kill him.

Is this sinking in yet? His past history does not impact how Chauvin's nine minutes on his neck are judged. I know, big scary Black man right? It does not matter. Neither you, nor I, nor convicted murderer Chauvin have the right to kill him.

"Is this sinking in yet? His past history does not impact how Chauvin's nine minutes on his neck are judged. I know, big scary Black man right? It does not matter. Neither you, nor I, nor convicted murderer Chauvin have the right to kill him."

For all too many, it will never sink in that a cop who has no idea at the time of a person's previous history, of whom are unarmed and that they have completely under control, doesn't give them the right to murder them. The attempt to justify Chauvin having the authority to act as judge, jury and executioner, is primarily driven as you stated because he was "a big scary black man." The "Chauvin probably killed him, BUT he had it coming" crowd - is pretty sickening.

[tvbound]

Sir/Madam. It is apparent that YOU are part of a large demographic that seems to walk in lock-step as well. Watch your thinking. It is bigoted to think of groups as all thinking alike. For instance;.... Many people think of a group that does not get vaccinated against Covid-19. Sumter county who is largely from that group .... has the highest vaccination percentage of all of the counties in Florida.

"Watch your thinking."

"Watch my thinking?" My thinking is that there are a lot of people, whether they mean to or not, are showing their true colors when it comes to racism and bigotry. I choose to research and make up my own mind and have never needed to try and join any particular group, just to feel like I belong, nor do I change the subject or use examples that are not germane to the discussion at hand.

[kenoc7]

Gracie, you have many irrelevant pieces of information. Putting his knee on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds including 3 minutes after he was non-responsive wasn't necessary restraint, it was murder. Period.

[tvbound]

Gracie, you have many irrelevant pieces of information. Putting his knee on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds including 3 minutes after he was non-responsive wasn't necessary restraint, it was murder. Period.

No question about it. And trying to justify the murder after the fact, is disgusting. Period.

[GrumpyOldMan]

There are about 18,000 deaths of blacks by blacks yearly . About 250 by police . If I was black, I'd worry alot more about my friends

Seriously? What do the two have to do with each other? If something is a crime should we decide the seriousness of the crime based on other crimes?

[holmesperdue]

Way back, in the late sixties, I had the privilege of attenditang the US Army CID school. Of all the things that we learned was simply: if you took someone into custody you became responsible for their well being. It really is just that simple...

[baramu]

George Floyd died a herendous death at the hands of an evil cop. Sure, he did not have a stellar history but a lot of people don’t. Along with shooting people for protesting, all of this smacks of a totalitarian government. I suggest if anyone believes these laws are okay, see if there’s a plane to Russia and just get out. I prefer democracy which is slowly slipping away. Traitors in our government and traitors in our people.

[diva1]

I will count you as such.

I will also say that what he had done previously does matter. When someone says "He is a known felon" that does sway the opinion of most people. DEREK CHAUVIN may have not been a great cop, in fact may have been a lousy police officer, but he did not deliberately aim to kill the man. He was trying to restrain him. He was trying to restrain him. George Floyd would be alive today in a cell somewhere, if he had sit when he was told to SIT.

WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE EXACTLY, in that situation if it was you and George Floyd, Bill???????????? Pretend he is white. Pretend he is Asian. Pretend he is Australian Aboriginal. Pretend he is a Pacific Islander. I don't see race as a factor here. But maybe YOU do???

Obviously, nothing will change your mind. I've got that. But Chauvin was not 'trying to restrain him' for 9 minutes. Not for 8 minutes. Or maybe 7. He was murdering him at that point. Period.

[Chitown]

Not excusing the behavior of a few police officers, anyone interested in becoming a police officer today needs to have their heads examined. If I was already a police officer today I would answer my mandatory 911 calls dispatched to me and nothing else. No traffic stops, no issuing traffic citations, no stopping citizens, no interaction with the public at all. Maybe, just maybe you might make it to retirement.

[spjvette]

And how many police take downs of Criminals do you think would actually be shown to the public? Especially if they were done by the book. It’s not news to show good police action.

[joseppe]

This law will only protect law enforcement. If you are a private citizen who misbehaves in a public park, saying yelling at a Black family for playing music too loud.. Your behavior can be recorded and posted on the internet. Or you are shopping at Walmart in your curlers or revealing clothes, there is a whole genre of online posting of those people. No protecting for your face or body from this legislation.

If you are a firefighter, no protection. If you are a paramedic, no protection. What is there about police that they need special protection against being caused emotional distress when their actions are exposed to the public? Don't want to be embarrassed? Don't do something that will reflect badly on you. Simple. This is a radical knee jerk reaction to an evil cop getting caught by the public. We need more of that, not less.

Maybe because the Cop's job is to interact with Violent perpetrators of crimes. None of the others have the job of having to arrest or restrain another human being. As yourself how you would have done your job if you would have been the one responsible for restraining and arresting George Floyd or some other violent person hopped up on drugs.

What did you do for a living before you retired? If you made a mistake in your job were you subject to criminal prosecution? Why aren't the people behind the cameras stepping up and showing us how Policing should be done?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Video from one angle does not always show what really happened. Videos can also be doctored to promote a certain viewpoint. I see nothing wring with prohibiting people from posting video of police actions online. Video shot of police doing their jobs can and should be given to the D.A.'s office if the person that shot the video believes that there was something wrong with the officer's actions.

Posting a video online only serves to give a lot of people part of the information while holding back what could be a lot of factors. All it does is to get people riled up and create a more divisive society.

Let the various government law enforcement agencies decide what is relevant and what may not be.

The problem now is that police are being tried in the court of public opinion before a court or jury can look at all of the evidence.

We just had an example of this in the case in Columbus, Ohio where the officer shot the teenage girl that was about to stab another teenage girl with a knife.

Instead of headlines that say, "Officer saves girl's life by shooting knife wielding attacker" we have immediate protests, celebrities making threatening quotes and the one that was shot being referred to as the victim as opposed to what she really was, the perpetrator.

Don't stop anyone from shooting video of anything that is out in public for people to see. But stop them from posting police actions online and give the video to the authorities.

[DougandLaddi]

I will count you as such.

I will also say that what he had done previously does matter. When someone says "He is a known felon" that does sway the opinion of most people. DEREK CHAUVIN may have not been a great cop, in fact may have been a lousy police officer, but he did not deliberately aim to kill the man. He was trying to restrain him. He was trying to restrain him. George Floyd would be alive today in a cell somewhere, if he had sit when he was told to SIT.

WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE EXACTLY, in that situation if it was you and George Floyd, Bill???????????? Pretend he is white. Pretend he is Asian. Pretend he is Australian Aboriginal. Pretend he is a Pacific Islander. I don't see race as a factor here. But maybe YOU do???

I agree 100%, his past was a huge factor in the strong use of force, if cops can not ratchet up force when merited they will be the looser far too often. Chauvin may not have been the best but few are perfect as they are human and cops need the backing required to do their job without risk of persecution like this. Bad cops get ferreted out by internal affairs all the time and the system works for the most part. I don't believe George Floyds skin color was a significant factor other than the drastic treatment Derek Chauvin got in the press to drive this terrible over reach. If G. Floyd was white there would not even be a story so which color of skin is likely over or under represented.

[DAVES]

Chauvin sits in jail now, not because of citizen complaints, not because of his own body camera, not because his peers reported his behavior. He is only in jail because of the video taken by a teenager who then posted her video on the internet. The Federal Courts have held that police could not prohibit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glik_v._Cunniffe#:~:text=2011)%20is%20a%20case%20i n,First%20and%20Fourth%20Amendment%20rights.) citizens from filming their behavior. It had been common for police to seize cameras back in the good old days. This protected right to film in public is actually is new, only in the last 15 years.

In response to this ability to hold bad cops responsible for bad behavior, the Oklahoma legislature is in the process of finalizing a law that will make it illegal to put a video of a cop online if it might make him really unhappy or cost him his job.
The law is supposedly to prevent doxing. No problem with that as a goal. But then it sneaks a couple extra lines into the language. You can read the bill HERE (http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2021-22%20INT/hB/HB2273%20INT.PDF)

It is very short. It prohibits web publication if such would


Clearly if a video like that of Chauvin were made in Oklahoma after this passes, the person who shot the video, Darnella Frazier, would be charged. Chauvin and his family certainly suffered emotional distress and financial loss.

You say I must be making this up. Read the bill. It prohibits publication of



Under this law if your video or still photo showed the name of the cop, his name tag, you are in violation. If it shows what police department he works for, you are in violation, if it shows his face you are in violation. Who is pushing this agenda? Why are the members of the Oklahoma legislature putting this through? Lines A, G, and I have only one goal, preventing the public from being able to police bad police.

If you want to prevent doxing, get rid of several of these items. Many on this forum have suggested that no one wants to protect the bad cops. Apparently a lot of people in Oklahoma have no problem with a law that will do just that, until of course the courts overturn this attempt to punish the public for providing documentation of those cops.

We seek, we demand perfection. Unfortunately perfection does not and cannot exist.

I do not have answers only questions based in reality. "No one wants to protect bad cops." What does that mean? When I was working, while I was responsible, dedicated, etc etc etc an mistake was in dollars and cents and I could or would correct almost all of them-even if it cost me money.

A cop is far different. A mistake made in a tenth of a second can cost someone their life. They do not know what they are walking into. They are regularly offered bribes everything from a free doughnut to sex, drugs and cash.

Our athletes, etc. We know that some of them fall prey to vice. Reality, perhaps, like cops, we only know a small part of what goes on.

I do not have solutions. Like most things the only real choice is to do the best we can.

[choppers62]

What about Chauvin's police history? Should that have been brought up
also? He shouldn't have even been employed at the time of George Floyd arrest!!!

[DAVES]

I agree 100%, his past was a huge factor in the strong use of force, if cops can not ratchet up force when merited they will be the looser far too often. Chauvin may not have been the best but few are perfect as they are human and cops need the backing required to do their job without risk of persecution like this. Bad cops get ferreted out by internal affairs all the time and the system works for the most part. I don't believe George Floyds skin color was a significant factor other than the drastic treatment Derek Chauvin got in the press to drive this terrible over reach. If G. Floyd was white there would not even be a story so which color of skin is likely over or under represented.

The race card. I suggest to all that you use my simple yet difficult to actually do.
Simply in your mind reverse the skin color. If, that then reverses your view you have a problem. Sometimes we call that white guilt. I am white, I do not have white guilt.
The charge of racist is truly powerful. A big reason for that is it is impossible to prove you are not racist. Reality check. You meet someone. To claim you are not aware it is male, female, old, young, thin, fit, fat well dressed, black, white, hispanic, oriental etc etc etc. You are lying to others. More important, you are lying to yourself.

[spd2918]

I just read some reviews of the new law and found it is still perfectly legal to video people in public, including police.

What is not legal is to publish officers' personal information with the intent to harass them or cause others to harass them. It is illegal in many states to publish anyone's personal information with the intent to harass.

People may not be aware but many police officers are harassed for just being police officers. Vandalized homes / cars, nuisance 3am phone calls, followed in stores, their kids bullied at school, etc. Its sad, but true.

I'd have preferred Oklahoma put out the same law without regard to ones employment, but maybe they were pulling a public political stunt to show support for a group being demonized by the current crop of leftists.

[OhioBuckeye]

I agree with what most people are saying here but if George Floyd was so bad why is he walking the streets, is it because he’s done his time. I saw the video & saw he was cuffed so he couldn’t fight back but to kneel on his neck until he died was murder. Why was the officer kneeling on him for so long, I think this peticular policeman had it in for him, he said he was trained to do this but I guess in his training they forgot to tell him that the suspect has to breath now & then, he knew exactly what was going to happen. Floyd didn’t fight, he couldn’t. But in defense of the police, people are nuts if they defund the police. If I’m a good citizen & I give up my guns who’s going to the wrong side of town to tell the criminal to give their guns, some politician. Then who going to protect you when one of the wrong side of town people starts shooting your family, the police, your 357 mag. hand gun, oh yea we don’t have police protection, & we gave up our guns. These 2 things are dumb Nazi ideas! Use your common sense people. Floyd died unnecessarily & the police officer went to jail because if he didn’t I think the judge & the police man & lawyer would of probably had major destruction done to their family & property. Just my opinion!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The race card. I suggest to all that you use my simple yet difficult to actually do.
Simply in your mind reverse the skin color. If, that then reverses your view you have a problem. Sometimes we call that white guilt. I am white, I do not have white guilt.
The charge of racist is truly powerful. A big reason for that is it is impossible to prove you are not racist. Reality check. You meet someone. To claim you are not aware it is male, female, old, young, thin, fit, fat well dressed, black, white, hispanic, oriental etc etc etc. You are lying to others. More important, you are lying to yourself.

That's one way I can see very plainly that someone has an obvious prejudice or bias. It isn't truly racism, but you don't have to be a racist to have a prejudice or bias toward or against "other."

When someone says "when I see this person, I don't see color. There are no races, we are all the same" they're lying. Either to everyone else, or to themselves. They're saying words, making sounds that they feel will prove that they're not exactly what they are: people who judge others based on how they appear.

There's no shame in having a bias. We all have them. No one is exempt. The shame is when you lie about it to prove a point that you can't prove, because the point is based on the lie.

In college, I hung out with homeless people. All colors, sizes, abilities/disabilities, backgrounds, ethnicities. And yet, when I see panhandlers here, I can feel my heart rate go up. I wonder if they'll try to reach into my open window of my car and take something. It's a bias that I'm not proud of, but I acknowledge it and accept it.

In high school, I dated a Puerto Rican, and I used to ride my bicycle in the summer to his house in a low-income neighborhood in the city to visit him. While I never felt nervous riding through that neighborhood, I DO feel nervous when I'm the only white woman an elevator of all Latino men.

Some of the homeless folks I hung out with were black. We shared a quart together on the banks of the Charles River, we played music together outside the Harvard Coop for money, we sat in Harvard Square til 3 in the morning after everything shut down, talking about life. I never felt uncomfortable with them, they welcomed me into their circle and I was blessed for it.

But you'd better believe if I saw a bunch of black guys coming toward me at night when I'm alone, I'd get nervous. I'm not proud of that. But I acknowledge and accept it.

Don't lie to yourselves, people who want to pretend that you believe we're all the same, just to prove your point. Don't lie to everyone else either. Unless you are blind and deaf, you WILL have a trigger reaction to anything you consider "other" than yourself.

Black folks have no problem recognizing this. I think their biggest issue, if you were to bring it to its absolute core, is that white folks recognize it, and will either a) deny the recognition or b) use it as an excuse to purposefully treat "other" differently.

[graciegirl]

"Is this sinking in yet? His past history does not impact how Chauvin's nine minutes on his neck are judged. I know, big scary Black man right? It does not matter. Neither you, nor I, nor convicted murderer Chauvin have the right to kill him."

For all too many, it will never sink in that a cop who has no idea at the time of a person's previous history, of whom are unarmed and that they have completely under control, doesn't give them the right to murder them. The attempt to justify Chauvin having the authority to act as judge, jury and executioner, is primarily driven as you stated because he was "a big scary black man." The "Chauvin probably killed him, BUT he had it coming" crowd - is pretty sickening.

Please point out who, on this thread who used the term "big scary black man".

Who said on this thread, "Chauvin killed him, but he had it coming".

Who even defended Derek Chauvin on this thread?

Many times on the way to a police call, if the person who is the subject of the arrest is known by name, they will run the name if they have time to see if he/she has a record. I would guess so that they know just what they might expect to deal with in the way of behavior. Many domestic calls for example are repeat calls and they may know what they might expect and know the danger level to the people involved and to law enforcement.

I would think that they do make summary judgements on the way as to where they are going is a high crime area or a low crime area. I think I would if I were a police officer.

But perhaps, just perhaps that isn't essentially racist? More just general knowledge??

And, I say again, if the procedure is allowed when a person is violently resisting arrest, than it is not a personal attempt to kill someone. He should have known. OH YES. He was a jerk. OH Yes. But did he sit there with thoughts of killing him????

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

The race card. I suggest to all that you use my simple yet difficult to actually do.
Simply in your mind reverse the skin color. If, that then reverses your view you have a problem. Sometimes we call that white guilt. I am white, I do not have white guilt.
The charge of racist is truly powerful. A big reason for that is it is impossible to prove you are not racist. Reality check. You meet someone. To claim you are not aware it is male, female, old, young, thin, fit, fat well dressed, black, white, hispanic, oriental etc etc etc. You are lying to others. More important, you are lying to yourself.

The thing that stands out to me regarding race in this particular case is that the prosecutors did not charge him with hate crimes. If they thought that race had anything to do with his actions, they surely would have added additional hate crimes charges.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

What about Chauvin's police history? Should that have been brought up
also? He shouldn't have even been employed at the time of George Floyd arrest!!!

One of the things that I don't know was brought up was that Derek Chauvin and many other members of the Minneapolis police force used the knee on the neck technique a multitude of times and no one had ever died from it before. In fact there is video of Chauvin using it on a teenager for over 17 minutes with no adverse effects.

I don't know whether things in his background should have prevented Chauvin from being employed as a police officer. But I do know that if Floyd has simply gotten into the police car, he might be alive today.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I just read some reviews of the new law and found it is still perfectly legal to video people in public, including police.

What is not legal is to publish officers' personal information with the intent to harass them or cause others to harass them. It is illegal in many states to publish anyone's personal information with the intent to harass.

People may not be aware but many police officers are harassed for just being police officers. Vandalized homes / cars, nuisance 3am phone calls, followed in stores, their kids bullied at school, etc. Its sad, but true.

I'd have preferred Oklahoma put out the same law without regard to ones employment, but maybe they were pulling a public political stunt to show support for a group being demonized by the current crop of leftists.

Exactly. In spite of the misleading title of this thread, no one will be prevented from taking videos of police doing their job. What is prevented is posting on a public forum.

As I said in a previous post, if you have incriminating evidence of anything, the proper thing to do is to turn it over to authorities. The improper thing to do is to post it online.

[yanksansky]

I will count you as such.

I will also say that what he had done previously does matter. When someone says "He is a known felon" that does sway the opinion of most people. DEREK CHAUVIN may have not been a great cop, in fact may have been a lousy police officer, but he did not deliberately aim to kill the man. He was trying to restrain him. He was trying to restrain him. George Floyd would be alive today in a cell somewhere, if he had sit when he was told to SIT.

WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE EXACTLY, in that situation if it was you and George Floyd, Bill???????????? Pretend he is white. Pretend he is Asian. Pretend he is Australian Aboriginal. Pretend he is a Pacific Islander. I don't see race as a factor here. But maybe YOU do???

You are wrong on every level of this thread.

[graciegirl]

You are wrong on every level of this thread.

What would you have done, if you had been there to arrest George Floyd for passing a counterfeit twenty dollar bill and he resisted arrest when he was told to get out of his car and didn't and when he was told to sit down and didn't and, when he was told to stop thrashing and moving and didn't?

HOW exactly would you have handled the situation if you were a police officer? I think I might have tazed him. What would you have done? Do you agree he seemed under the influence of something in the tape standing inside of the store? Did you see the tape of George Floyd resisting the four officers and at times seem to be more powerful than all of them put together??

Would you simply have let him drive away?

If you knew that someone was a person who had been arrested and incarcerated, would that change your opinion of her/him? A little, not at all?

P.S. Yankansky. I just read every one of your prior posts and there is not a thing that I disagree with you on. I would have really thought that you would agree with me on this one. Perhaps you did not understand my intent. I also sense you are a female person? Some say gender doesn't matter, but it really defines my responses in many ways. I am smaller and weaker than most men I know.

I am not defending Derek Chauvin. He seems to have had a lot of criticism before this happened and it appeared warranted.
My point was that George Floyd was resisting arrest physically and was large and looked very powerful physically.

My point really is that if George Floyd had done what he was told to do by the arresting police officer(s) he would be alive today. It never once occurred to me that race had anything to do with his death.

Here is a video of a large white man resisting arrest and who stole the police officer's car;
video of a large white man on drugs resisting arrest. - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=video+of+a+large+white+man+on+drugs+resis ting+arrest.&docid=608015095426712893&mid=AABD128E9D44BBAC2B55AABD128E9D44BBAC2B55&view=detail&FORM=VIRE)

[KYtoTV2021]

Perhaps you would prefer to have George Floyd (25 arrests) as your neighbor instead of Derek Chauvin. If you say you would, you are either disingenuous or ...beyond hope.

Three other officers were on scene and did not object to how George was handled. This dude was high on illegal drugs and resisting arrest -- as has been the case in nearly every single "high-profile" case of police shooting a black male.

Since the George Floyd death, blacks have murdered over 11,000 other blacks (and over 1,000 whites)..........NAME ONE.

[Aces4]

You are wrong on every level of this thread.

Did you happen to see the analysis of this situation by a retired investigator of these cases which included the FULL video with drug results for Floyd?

I believe Floyd was 85% responsible for what went down. He suffered from severe hypertensive atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease with meth and fentanyl intoxication and again was committing a crime. Why was he not held responsible for the trauma that he created through his choices? It is a tragedy his life was lost but how much of this was by his own hand. When do we all become responsible for our own actions?

[quietpine]

Everyone is equal under the law. Without that protection welcome to N Korea or Jan 6

[Aces4]

Everyone is equal under the law. Without that protection welcome to N Korea or Jan 6

And that means that everyone needs to obey the laws regarding drug abuse, criminal activities, driving under the influence and so forth, right?

[noslices1]

He is in jail, because he kneeled on George Floyd’s neck for 9 1/2 minutes and lack of oxygen killed him. So, he had drugs in his system and had a bad heart. He would have probably not died that day if he hadn’t been kneeled on.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

My point really is that if George Floyd had done what he was told to do by the arresting police officer(s) he would be alive today. It never once occurred to me that race had anything to do with his death.



My point is that if ANY OTHER police officer had been dealing with him instead of Chauvin, he would have been alive today. In jail, and alive.

The reason Chauvin is guilty of MURDER rather than unintentional homicide, is because he made SURE his victim was dead before taking his knee off his victim's neck. And even when he was told the victim had no pulse, he STAYED on that guy's neck for a few more minutes.

He was on the ground, face against the pavement, handcuffed behind his back, with someone kneeling on his back, someone else holding down his legs. There was no way this guy was going to get back up. Even if he twitched his final death twitch, he wasn't going anywhere and was a threat to no one at that point.

And still, Chauvin kept his knee on the guy's neck. After he was already dead and someone confirmed that he did not, in fact, have a pulse.

That's why he's in jail. Not because he killed a criminal. That happens all the time, it's the nature of the business, stuff happens and I still respect the police departments.

No. It was because he didn't have to kill him, the criminal was already in a position where he was unable to cause harm, he was then killed, and then the officer stayed on his neck to make SURE the guy was dead. That's why he's in jail and Floyd is dead.

[tvbound]

My point is that if ANY OTHER police officer had been dealing with him instead of Chauvin, he would have been alive today. In jail, and alive.

The reason Chauvin is guilty of MURDER rather than unintentional homicide, is because he made SURE his victim was dead before taking his knee off his victim's neck. And even when he was told the victim had no pulse, he STAYED on that guy's neck for a few more minutes.

He was on the ground, face against the pavement, handcuffed behind his back, with someone kneeling on his back, someone else holding down his legs. There was no way this guy was going to get back up. Even if he twitched his final death twitch, he wasn't going anywhere and was a threat to no one at that point.

And still, Chauvin kept his knee on the guy's neck. After he was already dead and someone confirmed that he did not, in fact, have a pulse.

That's why he's in jail. Not because he killed a criminal. That happens all the time, it's the nature of the business, stuff happens and I still respect the police departments.

No. It was because he didn't have to kill him, the criminal was already in a position where he was unable to cause harm, he was then killed, and then the officer stayed on his neck to make SURE the guy was dead. That's why he's in jail and Floyd is dead.

Exactly. Those who try and basically say that Floyd deserved it, because of his previous record, are simply trying to justify murder and most reasonable people - know why they are doing it. I believe Chauvin knew he was going to be convicted and is the reason he chose the judge, instead of the jury, for his sentencing. It will be very interesting to see if the judge chooses to try and use some of that same warped/prejudicial thinking, to give Chauvin a minimal sentence - for outright murder. This saga is not over yet.

[graciegirl]

Exactly. Those who try and basically say that Floyd deserved it, because of his previous record, are simply trying to justify murder and most reasonable people - know why they are doing it. I believe Chauvin knew he was going to be convicted and is the reason he chose the judge, instead of the jury, for his sentencing. It will be very interesting to see if the judge chooses to try and use some of that same warped/prejudicial thinking, to give Chauvin a minimal sentence - for outright murder. This saga is not over yet.

Madam. NO ONE on THIS thread said anything remotely like "Floyd deserved it because of his previous record". NO ONE. Many said he was a known felon. Many suspected he was high on drugs at the time.

[jimjamuser]

I think it is entirely possible that Derek Chauvin was an unprincipled person. I feel almost sure that George Floyd was an unprincipled person. I know, I know, we need to give everyone a new chance. George Floyd was arrested and sentenced to a penitentiary for several years for breaking into a private home and holding a gun to the belly of a pregnant woman, allowing three accomplices in to rob the home. He moved to Minnesota for a "new start". The police were called because he tried to pass a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. The camera's inside the store showed him swaying slightly and appearing to be under the influence of something. He got into a car with several other people who later refused to answer questions and took the fifth amendment as reason. I have to think they were somehow involved with buying or selling drugs, or they could have just been very private and did not want to answer questions. At the time that Derek Chauvin allowed George Floyd to die with neck pressure, that maneuver was allowed as a means of restraint. Clearly the other means of restraint used by FOUR MEN were not working. I don't know what I would have done if it had been MY job to arrest him. I believe in my heart that it would have been a dilemma whether or not he was high on drugs, and even if he was a skinny white Episcopalian. Derek Chauvin was there to arrest him and he continued to struggle hard physically. I think this has been made a racist issue above all other considerations. AND maybe it is. I am skeptical.

I am skeptical about whether this issue of "doxing" could be a red herring. I am thinking a lot of scary thoughts. Maybe because I think that people who are generally responsible and ethical worry about being at the mercy of people who are not generally responsible and ethical.
It was 100% a race issue. It is a strained perception to believe otherwise. Some small % of people will NOT believe their "lying eves"! But, there are 2 major ways to prove that it smacked of racism - #1 The jury concluded that it WAS murder. #2 The US Attorney General has started a "patterns and procedures" investigation because he SUSPECTS that the Minneapolis Police Department has SYSTEMIC race problems. He would NOT be doing that if it was not LIKELY that they will find RACISM. Justice and most US citizens demand just that! What I saw was a VERY bad policeman cruelly murder a HELPLESS citizen over $20 that he may not have even known was counterfeit!

If someone is going to talk about Mr. Floyd's past (which was NOT allowed in the trial) then it is also to be talked about that Mr. Chauvin had 17 disciplinary incidents in his record - he was a ticking time bomb. And bad Police are the main takeaway from THAT trial.

[stebooo]

Can you stand up to that kind of investigation of your life. Every cop is now open to suit by anybody that doesn't like something. And there are lots out there. The bad guys will surface.

[graciegirl]

My point is that if ANY OTHER police officer had been dealing with him instead of Chauvin, he would have been alive today. In jail, and alive.

The reason Chauvin is guilty of MURDER rather than unintentional homicide, is because he made SURE his victim was dead before taking his knee off his victim's neck. And even when he was told the victim had no pulse, he STAYED on that guy's neck for a few more minutes.

He was on the ground, face against the pavement, handcuffed behind his back, with someone kneeling on his back, someone else holding down his legs. There was no way this guy was going to get back up. Even if he twitched his final death twitch, he wasn't going anywhere and was a threat to no one at that point.

And still, Chauvin kept his knee on the guy's neck. After he was already dead and someone confirmed that he did not, in fact, have a pulse.

That's why he's in jail. Not because he killed a criminal. That happens all the time, it's the nature of the business, stuff happens and I still respect the police departments.

No. It was because he didn't have to kill him, the criminal was already in a position where he was unable to cause harm, he was then killed, and then the officer stayed on his neck to make SURE the guy was dead. That's why he's in jail and Floyd is dead.


That is pure speculation on your part that Derek Chauvin "made sure he was dead," He might have made sure he ceased to struggle.

Bad guys on drugs can have amazing strength AND cunning Orange Blossom Baby.

video of a large white man on drugs resisting arrest. - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=video+of+a+large+white+man+on+drugs+resis ting+arrest.&docid=608015095426712893&mid=AABD128E9D44BBAC2B55AABD128E9D44BBAC2B55&view=detail&FORM=VIRE)

[stanley]

My point is that if ANY OTHER police officer had been dealing with him instead of Chauvin, he would have been alive today. In jail, and alive.

Opinion and conjecture. You cannot say that with absolute certainty.

[jimjamuser]

This law will only protect law enforcement. If you are a private citizen who misbehaves in a public park, saying yelling at a Black family for playing music too loud.. Your behavior can be recorded and posted on the internet. Or you are shopping at Walmart in your curlers or revealing clothes, there is a whole genre of online posting of those people. No protecting for your face or body from this legislation.

If you are a firefighter, no protection. If you are a paramedic, no protection. What is there about police that they need special protection against being caused emotional distress when their actions are exposed to the public? Don't want to be embarrassed? Don't do something that will reflect badly on you. Simple. This is a radical knee jerk reaction to an evil cop getting caught by the public. We need more of that, not less.
My answer to "what is it about Police".......The Police do have a tough job. But, some of them go into the profession for the wrong reasons - they like the POWER it gives them - they may not be an executive but they can strut around like one and have big attitude and egos. Some like to bully people - especially poor people who may not be able to afford lawyers. Police have an unwritten code of NOT testifying against each other and some water down the incident reports to protect their fellow officers. This occurred dramatically in the Floyd murder case. The Police unions have access to very strong legal services in most cases. So, the ''bad apples" can flaunt the law with impunity. That magnifies their feeling of power!

[Aces4]

My answer to "what is it about Police".......The Police do have a tough job. But, some of them go into the profession for the wrong reasons - they like the POWER it gives them - they may not be an executive but they can strut around like one and have big attitude and egos. Some like to bully people - especially poor people who may not be able to afford lawyers. Police have an unwritten code of NOT testifying against each other and some water down the incident reports to protect their fellow officers. This occurred dramatically in the Floyd murder case. The Police unions have access to very strong legal services in most cases. So, the ''bad apples" can flaunt the law with impunity. That magnifies their feeling of power!

And you have yet to speak of Mr. Floyd’s culpability.

[jimjamuser]

Gracie, I think you try to be fair and even. But you are guilty of both siderism. It does not matter what George Floyd's past criminal history might have been. It does not matter what the other people were doing in the car. Clearly they were using drugs. What mattered in the Chauvin case was that he killed Floyd well after any need to subdue him existed.
The knee : " that maneuver was allowed as a means of restraint." You are 100% wrong about that. His own chief of police testified (https://news.yahoo.com/police-chief-chauvins-neck-restraint-on-george-floyd-absolutely-violated-department-policies-210506791.html) about the technique Chauvin was using and for how long he used it. It was only permitted for seconds not for nine minutes (https://apnews.com/article/was-officer-knee-on-george-floyd-neck-authorized-639cab5a670173ea9cc311db4386abf2). The trainer for the city testified "That's not what we train" (https://www.npr.org/sections/trial-over-killing-of-george-floyd/2021/04/05/984587443/former-training-commander-on-chauvin-neck-restraint-thats-not-what-we-train) Please stop making up false facts to fit your preference.
If a cop is allowed to punch you once to gain control, that does not mean he can punch you for nine minutes until you stop breathing and your heart stops beating and then claim that throwing a punch is allowed.

I know you are not a pharmacologist but the drug he had in his system are sedatives not agitators. Fentanyl will not make you violent. He was not a danger to Chauvin because of the drugs he took. He was not resisting once he was on the ground.

One of the other officers checked Floyd for a pulse several minutes into the time Chauvin was on his neck. The other officer reported that there was no pulse. What did Chauvin do? He never moved. He stayed on the neck of Floyd even when a fellow office told him the man had no pulse. Did he release his pressure. No, Did he start CPR, no. Instead he continued to apply neck pressure in a way NOT approved by the Minneapolis Police. And he did not move until the EMT's ordered him to move.

Gracie, your inability to see Mr Floyd as a human being is sad to me because I'd expect you to know that even people with problems deserve respect if not love.

This sentence tells me you are failing to grasp the truth when it is right in front of you



He did not "allow" him to die. He murdered him.

And now the State of Oklahoma is passing a law to make it easier for the next Chauvin to get away with murder.
You were being very gentle and gentlemanly in your reply. And your reply went point by point and was informative. Very classy. I tried to make that same reply but was not close to the accuracy and sophistication that yours was. This forum is very LUCKY to have someone with your mind and demeanor!

[jimjamuser]

I just read a book by John Grisham, "The Innocent Man". Written in 2006, it is his first non-fiction novel, based on criminal cases in Oklahoma in the 1980s. It is claimed to be meticulously researched.

It gives some insight into how a few, not totally upstanding citizens, were abused by a corrupt criminal justice system. Perhaps unfair treatment by the criminal justice system in Oklahoma is not so uncommon.
I would NOT like to live in Oklahoma.

[Aces4]

I would be extremely impressed and confident if all those determining how Mr. Floyd was treated would encourage the African American inner cities population to move to The Villages and be welcomed.

Offer financial support to them, hire them and include them in your activities. Do not increase but rather decrease the police population and help them get out of their current status.

Then I would think this wasn’t all just lip service but a true attempt to help these individuals.

[jimjamuser]

Sir/Madam. It is apparent that YOU are part of a large demographic that seems to walk in lock-step as well. Watch your thinking. It is bigoted to think of groups as all thinking alike. For instance;.... Many people think of a group that does not get vaccinated against Covid-19. Sumter county who is largely from that group .... has the highest vaccination percentage of all of the counties in Florida.
That rambles together at least 2 divergent situations.

[jimjamuser]

"No, all video should not be public. I would support that the object of the video should be able to immediately get access to the video, not only once the police have reviewed it and deemed it appropriate."
__________________ I think it would be informative if video of any and all arrest situation were made public. clearly a public matter with the public having a right to know
Better to have volunteers ride in squad cars with the Police. They could be college students working on a degree in law or justice or criminology.

[Robert11]

Reading all of these posts I have not seen one that puts the blame where in mho it belongs the judicial system. An officer 's job is hard enough without having to arrest the same perpetrators over and over. How many times have you read of crimes being committed by someone with a long record. People want to try rehabilitation which in itself is a good practice but in reality in most cases it doesn't work. When does it become apparent that some people cannot be rehabilitated after one, two, ten, twenty convictions. Why does everyone blame the police? If you want to place the blame try the revolving door court system.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I would be extremely impressed and confident if all those determining how Mr. Floyd was treated would encourage the African American inner cities population to move to The Villages and be welcomed.

Offer financial support to them, hire them and include them in your activities. Do not increase but rather decrease the police population and help them get out of their current status.

Then I would think this wasn’t all just lip service but a true attempt to help these individuals.

If those African-Americans are 55 or older and don't have kids living with them under age 19, I'd be fine with them moving next door. I'd probably be overjoyed if an Indian family moved to the neighborhood on one side of my house, and a Syrian family on the other side. I'd go out of my way to make friends with them. Maybe then I'd get a proper chicken curry once a week, and a decent falafel sandwich another day a week. and I'll make them some shrimp scampi for a third day of the week (or chicken scampi if they'd prefer halal food). Plus I like Bhangra, and could totally grok dancing to some bangin' Bhangra in the evening.

I don't offer financial support to my next door neighbor. But my tax dollars do help support the poor, and I'm fine with that.

They are absolutely welcome to join me on the archery range and for only $15/year they can be club members and use the club equipment instead of buying their own, if that's what they'd prefer.

Lady Lake already has minimal police. In fact, most TOWNS in Florida have minimal police department funding. They rely on county police departments.

[Aloha1]

This whole thread is beyond redemption. It has deteriorated into opposing camps with no wish to seriously discuss the issue which is, whether Floyd's criminal record ( which Chauvin was aware of) had any bearing on his arrest and did Chauvin exact "revenge" on Floyd. we know the answer to both from the trial. To whit, Floyd was stopped for a Federal felony crime, passing counterfeit money as per the court record. Chauvin was found guilty of using excessive force in the detainment of Floyd, leading to his death. Again as per the court record.
Everybody wants to frame this as a "race" issue. That argument is hogwash as there is no such thing as "race". That word is a made up concept out of the 1800's. There is no science that supports the idea of "race". Humans are all one species, Homo Sapiens. The correct term would be discrimination, because some of us have different degrees of melanin which causes differences in skin color, or our ethnic culture is different. Period.

So get off this false "race" thing and instead think about discrimination against your fellow humans because they might look different or grew up in different cultures. ALL of us are from Africa as genetics has proven.

[tvbound]

That is pure speculation on your part that Derek Chauvin "made sure he was dead," He might have made sure he ceased to struggle.

Bad guys on drugs can have amazing strength AND cunning Orange Blossom Baby.

video of a large white man on drugs resisting arrest. - Bing video (/videos/search?q=video+of+a+large+white+man+on+drugs+resis ting+arrest.&docid=608015095426712893&mid=AABD128E9D44BBAC2B55AABD128E9D44BBAC2B55&view=detail&FORM=VIRE)

I have to respectfully ask, why do you continue to chum with red herring, basically try the "hey, look over there at the shiny object" and try to compare apples with rocks? The person in that video did NOT have his hands cuffed behind his back and was not laying on his stomach, on the ground, at any point. IOW, watching attempts to justify the actions of Chauvin, with silly examples like this (nowhere near the same situation as George Floyd's murder) - is pretty frustrating.

[Velvet]

Videos are simply documenting a situation. The only difficulty is interpreting the video. Like in sports, more than one angle is needed and full sequence to interpret what one sees on the video. Documentation, visual as well as audio is one of the best ways of getting at what happened. For everybody including the police, I’m for it.

[Aces4]

If those African-Americans are 55 or older and don't have kids living with them under age 19, I'd be fine with them moving next door. I'd probably be overjoyed if an Indian family moved to the neighborhood on one side of my house, and a Syrian family on the other side. I'd go out of my way to make friends with them. Maybe then I'd get a proper chicken curry once a week, and a decent falafel sandwich another day a week. and I'll make them some shrimp scampi for a third day of the week (or chicken scampi if they'd prefer halal food). Plus I like Bhangra, and could totally grok dancing to some bangin' Bhangra in the evening.

I don't offer financial support to my next door neighbor. But my tax dollars do help support the poor, and I'm fine with that.

They are absolutely welcome to join me on the archery range and for only $15/year they can be club members and use the club equipment instead of buying their own, if that's what they'd prefer.

Lady Lake already has minimal police. In fact, most TOWNS in Florida have minimal police department funding. They rely on county police departments.

Why do African American’s have to be fifty five or older, the quota is never an issue until now. They’re are people living here under the age of fifty five and remember, this would be an effort to get them on their feet. Perhaps you could join them on the archery range in that it’s open to all Villagers.

[Topspinmo]

This law will only protect law enforcement. If you are a private citizen who misbehaves in a public park, saying yelling at a Black family for playing music too loud.. Your behavior can be recorded and posted on the internet. Or you are shopping at Walmart in your curlers or revealing clothes, there is a whole genre of online posting of those people. No protecting for your face or body from this legislation.

If you are a firefighter, no protection. If you are a paramedic, no protection. What is there about police that they need special protection against being caused emotional distress when their actions are exposed to the public? Don't want to be embarrassed? Don't do something that will reflect badly on you. Simple. This is a radical knee jerk reaction to an evil cop getting caught by the public. We need more of that, not less.

Yep, just like the law I can’t record conversations without consent for it to be evidence in court of law. Who makes up the laws? LAWYERS.

[jimjamuser]

Video from one angle does not always show what really happened. Videos can also be doctored to promote a certain viewpoint. I see nothing wring with prohibiting people from posting video of police actions online. Video shot of police doing their jobs can and should be given to the D.A.'s office if the person that shot the video believes that there was something wrong with the officer's actions.

Posting a video online only serves to give a lot of people part of the information while holding back what could be a lot of factors. All it does is to get people riled up and create a more divisive society.

Let the various government law enforcement agencies decide what is relevant and what may not be.

The problem now is that police are being tried in the court of public opinion before a court or jury can look at all of the evidence.

We just had an example of this in the case in Columbus, Ohio where the officer shot the teenage girl that was about to stab another teenage girl with a knife.

Instead of headlines that say, "Officer saves girl's life by shooting knife wielding attacker" we have immediate protests, celebrities making threatening quotes and the one that was shot being referred to as the victim as opposed to what she really was, the perpetrator.

Don't stop anyone from shooting video of anything that is out in public for people to see. But stop them from posting police actions online and give the video to the authorities.
People WOULD give "give their videos of Police incidents to authorities" IF they could TRUST them. That would be opaque. Freedom needs the light of transparency, which is guaranteed by having MORE people see a video - not less. Dictatorships repress free speech. Videos on the internet promote free speech.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Why does everyone blame the police? If you want to place the blame try the revolving door court system.

I don't know ANYONE that blames THE police. I blame a few bad police. And I think we need a way to control that small number of bad p
olice.

And yes, the judicial system is screwed up.

[Ben Franklin]

I think it is entirely possible that Derek Chauvin was an unprincipled person. I feel almost sure that George Floyd was an unprincipled person. I know, I know, we need to give everyone a new chance. George Floyd was arrested and sentenced to a penitentiary for several years for breaking into a private home and holding a gun to the belly of a pregnant woman, allowing three accomplices in to rob the home. He moved to Minnesota for a "new start". The police were called because he tried to pass a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. The camera's inside the store showed him swaying slightly and appearing to be under the influence of something. He got into a car with several other people who later refused to answer questions and took the fifth amendment as reason. I have to think they were somehow involved with buying or selling drugs, or they could have just been very private and did not want to answer questions. At the time that Derek Chauvin allowed George Floyd to die with neck pressure, that maneuver was allowed as a means of restraint. Clearly the other means of restraint used by FOUR MEN were not working. I don't know what I would have done if it had been MY job to arrest him. I believe in my heart that it would have been a dilemma whether or not he was high on drugs, and even if he was a skinny white Episcopalian. Derek Chauvin was there to arrest him and he continued to struggle hard physically. I think this has been made a racist issue above all other considerations. AND maybe it is. I am skeptical.

I am skeptical about whether this issue of "doxing" could be a red herring. I am thinking a lot of scary thoughts. Maybe because I think that people who are generally responsible and ethical worry about being at the mercy of people who are not generally responsible and ethical.

"George Floyd was arrested and sentenced to a penitentiary for several years for breaking into a private home and holding a gun to the belly of a pregnant woman..." Nothing in the official police arrest record at the time of the robbery mentioned anything about the woman being pregnant. I agree that Chauvin and Floyd were unprincipled, however, police are not supposed to be judge and jury.

Background Check: Investigating George Floyd’s Criminal Record | Snopes.com (https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/06/12/george-floyd-criminal-record/)

As for Floyd's cocaine use, Florida's Republican Congressman in Fort Myers was caught buying and using cocaine BUT he was not sent to jail. He was sent to a rehab center. Today he is a commentator for right wing media.

In 2006, the FBI warned us that White Nationalist had infiltrated our police departments. Nothing was ever done about it.
FBI warned of white supremacists in law enforcement 10 years ago. Has anything changed? | PBS NewsHour (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement)

We do need to change, otherwise things will just get worst.

[stanley]

The justice system worked, a jury decided on a verdict.

That is a good thing.

Under a tad bit of duress I might add. How would you've liked to been on that jury? Not me for all the world.

[Aces4]

"George Floyd was arrested and sentenced to a penitentiary for several years for breaking into a private home and holding a gun to the belly of a pregnant woman..." Nothing in the official police arrest record at the time of the robbery mentioned anything about the woman being pregnant. I agree that Chauvin and Floyd were unprincipled, however, police are not supposed to be judge and jury.

Background Check: Investigating George Floyd’s Criminal Record | Snopes.com (https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/06/12/george-floyd-criminal-record/)

As for Floyd's cocaine use, Florida's Republican Congressman in Fort Myers was caught buying and using cocaine BUT he was not sent to jail. He was sent to a rehab center. Today he is a commentator for right wing media.

In 2006, the FBI warned us that White Nationalist had infiltrated our police departments. Nothing was ever done about it.
FBI warned of white supremacists in law enforcement 10 years ago. Has anything changed? | PBS NewsHour (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement)

We do need to change, otherwise things will just get worst.

Would the solution be only African American officers for African American crimes and calls and Caucasian officers for other crimes?

[jimjamuser]

I agree with what most people are saying here but if George Floyd was so bad why is he walking the streets, is it because he’s done his time. I saw the video & saw he was cuffed so he couldn’t fight back but to kneel on his neck until he died was murder. Why was the officer kneeling on him for so long, I think this peticular policeman had it in for him, he said he was trained to do this but I guess in his training they forgot to tell him that the suspect has to breath now & then, he knew exactly what was going to happen. Floyd didn’t fight, he couldn’t. But in defense of the police, people are nuts if they defund the police. If I’m a good citizen & I give up my guns who’s going to the wrong side of town to tell the criminal to give their guns, some politician. Then who going to protect you when one of the wrong side of town people starts shooting your family, the police, your 357 mag. hand gun, oh yea we don’t have police protection, & we gave up our guns. These 2 things are dumb Nazi ideas! Use your common sense people. Floyd died unnecessarily & the police officer went to jail because if he didn’t I think the judge & the police man & lawyer would of probably had major destruction done to their family & property. Just my opinion!
Or maybe Chauvin went to jail because 12 jurors found him guilty of MURDER.

[jimjamuser]

Please point out who, on this thread who used the term "big scary black man".

Who said on this thread, "Chauvin killed him, but he had it coming".

Who even defended Derek Chauvin on this thread?

Many times on the way to a police call, if the person who is the subject of the arrest is known by name, they will run the name if they have time to see if he/she has a record. I would guess so that they know just what they might expect to deal with in the way of behavior. Many domestic calls for example are repeat calls and they may know what they might expect and know the danger level to the people involved and to law enforcement.

I would think that they do make summary judgements on the way as to where they are going is a high crime area or a low crime area. I think I would if I were a police officer.

But perhaps, just perhaps that isn't essentially racist? More just general knowledge??

And, I say again, if the procedure is allowed when a person is violently resisting arrest, than it is not a personal attempt to kill someone. He should have known. OH YES. He was a jerk. OH Yes. But did he sit there with thoughts of killing him????
I believe that it was previously stated that the procedure could only be used for a few seconds.

[jimjamuser]

Perhaps you would prefer to have George Floyd (25 arrests) as your neighbor instead of Derek Chauvin. If you say you would, you are either disingenuous or ...beyond hope.

Three other officers were on scene and did not object to how George was handled. This dude was high on illegal drugs and resisting arrest -- as has been the case in nearly every single "high-profile" case of police shooting a black male.

Since the George Floyd death, blacks have murdered over 11,000 other blacks (and over 1,000 whites)..........NAME ONE.
Let's see. One has 25 robberies and one has 1 MURDER and 17 excessive use of force incidents on their record. I will go with the robber as opposed to the murderer.

[tvbound]

And to those that believe, w hearts and souls, that you KNOW how it all went down, as you sit comfortably in your armchair, behind your keyboard, NEVER w any policing experience, you sicken me.

Bad/bullying/racist/bigoted cops (like Chauvin) and those who protect or make excuses for them - sicken me. The rest, I applaud and appreciate the work they do.

[jimjamuser]

My point is that if ANY OTHER police officer had been dealing with him instead of Chauvin, he would have been alive today. In jail, and alive.

The reason Chauvin is guilty of MURDER rather than unintentional homicide, is because he made SURE his victim was dead before taking his knee off his victim's neck. And even when he was told the victim had no pulse, he STAYED on that guy's neck for a few more minutes.

He was on the ground, face against the pavement, handcuffed behind his back, with someone kneeling on his back, someone else holding down his legs. There was no way this guy was going to get back up. Even if he twitched his final death twitch, he wasn't going anywhere and was a threat to no one at that point.

And still, Chauvin kept his knee on the guy's neck. After he was already dead and someone confirmed that he did not, in fact, have a pulse.

That's why he's in jail. Not because he killed a criminal. That happens all the time, it's the nature of the business, stuff happens and I still respect the police departments.

No. It was because he didn't have to kill him, the criminal was already in a position where he was unable to cause harm, he was then killed, and then the officer stayed on his neck to make SURE the guy was dead. That's why he's in jail and Floyd is dead.
That is the long and short of it. We can believe our eyes, the testimony at trial, the jury's verdict, and our current Attorney General's investigation into systemic Police problems in Minneapolis. That is simply believing in the American system of justice. Those are a lot of factors that are hard to refute - but many are trying unsuccessfully!

[Ben Franklin]

Would the solution be only African American officers for African American crimes and calls and Caucasian officers for other crimes?
Those are your thoughts, not mine.

[jimjamuser]

Opinion and conjecture. You cannot say that with absolute certainty.
No one short of GOD can ever say ANYTHING with ABSOLUTE certainty. Even scientists never make statements of certainty.

[jimjamuser]

And you have yet to speak of Mr. Floyd’s culpability.
Because it has ZERO to do with the case - which is did D. Chauvin MURDER Mr. Floyd? Mr. Floyd was NOT on trial !

[Topspinmo]

"George Floyd was arrested and sentenced to a penitentiary for several years for breaking into a private home and holding a gun to the belly of a pregnant woman..." Nothing in the official police arrest record at the time of the robbery mentioned anything about the woman being pregnant. I agree that Chauvin and Floyd were unprincipled, however, police are not supposed to be judge and jury.

Background Check: Investigating George Floyd’s Criminal Record | Snopes.com (https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/06/12/george-floyd-criminal-record/)

As for Floyd's cocaine use, Florida's Republican Congressman in Fort Myers was caught buying and using cocaine BUT he was not sent to jail. He was sent to a rehab center. Today he is a commentator for right wing media.

In 2006, the FBI warned us that White Nationalist had infiltrated our police departments. Nothing was ever done about it.
FBI warned of white supremacists in law enforcement 10 years ago. Has anything changed? | PBS NewsHour (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement)

We do need to change, otherwise things will just get worst.


Thing are going to get worse, just look at history, ever decade it’s get worse.

[jimjamuser]

Thing are going to get worse, just look at history, ever decade it’s get worse.
Not sure about other countries, but yes in the US - because every decade since 1970 the wealth gap has increased until we have the #1 worse gap in the world!

[stanley]

No one short of GOD can ever say ANYTHING with ABSOLUTE certainty. Even scientists never make statements of certainty.

Duh!! Some responses by some always "seem" absolute.....maybe more godly than most.

[Aces4]

Because it has ZERO to do with the case - which is did D. Chauvin MURDER Mr. Floyd? Mr. Floyd was NOT on trial !

Mr. Floyd put himself in that precarious situation by his actions but that carries no accountability.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Mr. Floyd put himself in that precarious situation by his actions but that carries no accountability.

Yes, he did, does that mean he deserved to be murdered?

Accountability should be proportional to the action. Did his actions rate being killed?| Is it up to the police to judge his actions and determine he deserves the death penalty?

I have heard NO ONE say Floyd was a good guy. No one said he was innocent.No one said he should not be held accountable for his actions. That is ALL a strawman.

The police are not judge, jury, and executioner. They are intended to enforce the law. Why is it so deplorable or unacceptable to want to monitor police activity to confirm they are actually obeying the law?

You seem to want to hold the death man accountable for his actions, shouldn't the police also be help accountable for their actions?