Florida Impact Fee Limits Headed To DeSantis

[Altavia]

Florida Impact Fee Limits Headed To DeSantis | WLRN (https://www.wlrn.org/news/2021-04-26/florida-impact-fee-limits-headed-to-desantis?_amp=true)

The Florida Senate on Monday gave final approval to a measure that seeks to limit increases in impact fees, which many local governments collect to help pay for growth-related costs.

Senators voted 28-12 to pass the measure (HB 337), with Senate sponsor Joe Gruters, R-Sarasota, saying it is aimed at creating “predictability in the marketplace.” The House passed the bill last week, meaning it is now ready to go to Gov. Ron DeSantis.

The bill, in part, would seek to prevent impact fees from being increased more often than every four years and cap such increases at 50 percent. Increases up to 25 percent would have to be implemented in two annual increments, while increases between 25 and 50 percent would be done in four installments. The bill also includes an exception to the limits if local governments can meet certain legal criteria --- what Gruters described as “relief valve.”

In addition, the bill defines types of infrastructure projects that could be funded with impact-fee money. Supporters have said the bill is needed because of large impact-fee increases in places such as Hillsborough County and that developers pass along the costs to homebuyers.

But. Sen. Bobby Powell, D-West Palm Beach, objected to the bill Monday, pointing to impacts on local governments’ home-rule authority.

[Dana1963]

Florida Impact Fee Limits Headed To DeSantis | WLRN (https://www.wlrn.org/news/2021-04-26/florida-impact-fee-limits-headed-to-desantis?_amp=true)

The Florida Senate on Monday gave final approval to a measure that seeks to limit increases in impact fees, which many local governments collect to help pay for growth-related costs.

Senators voted 28-12 to pass the measure (HB 337), with Senate sponsor Joe Gruters, R-Sarasota, saying it is aimed at creating “predictability in the marketplace.” The House passed the bill last week, meaning it is now ready to go to Gov. Ron DeSantis.

The bill, in part, would seek to prevent impact fees from being increased more often than every four years and cap such increases at 50 percent. Increases up to 25 percent would have to be implemented in two annual increments, while increases between 25 and 50 percent would be done in four installments. The bill also includes an exception to the limits if local governments can meet certain legal criteria --- what Gruters described as “relief valve.”

In addition, the bill defines types of infrastructure projects that could be funded with impact-fee money. Supporters have said the bill is needed because of large impact-fee increases in places such as Hillsborough County and that developers pass along the costs to homebuyers.

But. Sen. Bobby Powell, D-West Palm Beach, objected to the bill Monday, pointing to impacts on local governments’ home-rule authority.
It’s good to employ a state representative.

[Stu from NYC]

It’s good to employ a state representative.

Doesnt sit well with me when the guy who introduces the legislation is employed by the people it is designed to help.

Be interesting to see if he gets reelected, sure will not get my vote.

[Velvet]

Does the bill imply that the needed impact fees should be paid by other people than the homebuyers themselves? Pass on the existing home owners, for example? THAT would say something very clearly to me about what is going on....
I hope the “predictable marketplace” also applies to present home owners.

[New Englander]

Doesnt sit well with me when the guy who introduces the legislation is employed by the people it is designed to help.

Be interesting to see if he gets reelected, sure will not get my vote.


He won't get my vote either.

[Altavia]

Does the bill imply that the needed impact fees should be paid by other people than the homebuyers themselves? Pass on the existing home owners, for example? THAT would say something very clearly to me about what is going on....
I hope the “predictable marketplace” also applies to present home owners.

Of course any impact fees would be passed on to the new homeowners.

Even though present homeowners benefit from expansion by a strong local economy and lower tax increases when new taxpayers are added. That's why taxes have not increased the past 10 years.

The bill allows up to a 50% (prorated) increase in fees

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Of course any impact fees would be passed on to the new homeowners.

Even though present homeowners benefit from expansion by a strong local economy and lower tax increases when new taxpayers are added. That's why taxes have not increased the past 10 years.

The bill allows up to a 50% (prorated) increase in fees

You know there are residents of Sumter County outside the Villages, whose streets are impassible with potholes. There are residents of Sumter, Marion, and Lake County whose children have sub-par public education, but can't afford private school for their kids. You know there's an entire section of the Ocala Forest filled with homeless people (yes, there are drug addicts among them but there are also just flat out poor people too), who have no resources to build themselves up to a better life, because those resources rely primarily on donations from people who are choosing to spend their money on dinner at Augustine's and trips back to their summer homes up north instead. You know there are tens of thousands of underpaid workers who have chosen to accept a handout from the government, because the federal government is willing to give them a living wage, and if they stay at their jobs they have to apply for food stamps and housing credits and medicaid (courtesy of the taxpayer).

Our tax dollars will pay for all of this, whether the developers pass their impact fee on to homebuyers or not. Whether we spend it on medicaid for the homeless, or improving schools so fewer people NEED medicaid, or fixing roads to people can get to work - since "public transit" is a joke in this state...

I'd like to see a reduction in taxes and an increase in services. That will NEVER happen so long as development continues developing at the pace it develops, while the developer pockets the profits and doesn't share the wealth with the county that provides it with all its permits.

[John41]

DeSantis and Republicans lost my vote although I won’t vote Democrat. Best government money can buy. If the impact fee doesn’t cover the cost of new infrastructure the commissioners shouldn’t build it and rezone as much residential back to industrial or agriculture. Taxes are going to skyrocket otherwise.

[tophcfa]

Florida Impact Fee Limits Headed To DeSantis | WLRN (https://www.wlrn.org/news/2021-04-26/florida-impact-fee-limits-headed-to-desantis?_amp=true)

The Florida Senate on Monday gave final approval to a measure that seeks to limit increases in impact fees, which many local governments collect to help pay for growth-related costs.

Senators voted 28-12 to pass the measure (HB 337), with Senate sponsor Joe Gruters, R-Sarasota, saying it is aimed at creating “predictability in the marketplace.” The House passed the bill last week, meaning it is now ready to go to Gov. Ron DeSantis.

The bill, in part, would seek to prevent impact fees from being increased more often than every four years and cap such increases at 50 percent. Increases up to 25 percent would have to be implemented in two annual increments, while increases between 25 and 50 percent would be done in four installments. The bill also includes an exception to the limits if local governments can meet certain legal criteria --- what Gruters described as “relief valve.”

In addition, the bill defines types of infrastructure projects that could be funded with impact-fee money. Supporters have said the bill is needed because of large impact-fee increases in places such as Hillsborough County and that developers pass along the costs to homebuyers.

But. Sen. Bobby Powell, D-West Palm Beach, objected to the bill Monday, pointing to impacts on local governments’ home-rule authority.

Good information in the above post. However it doesn’t answer an obvious question. Will this bill be post dated so that it reverses the recent Sumter County Commissioners vote regarding impact fees?

[Stu from NYC]

Good information in the above post. However it doesn’t answer an obvious question. Will this bill be post dated so that it reverses the recent Sumter County Commissioners vote regarding impact fees?

When the Developers wrote the bill I would think they wrote it in a way that the impact fees would not be paid.

[Altavia]

Good information in the above post. However it doesn’t answer an obvious question. Will this bill be post dated so that it reverses the recent Sumter County Commissioners vote regarding impact fees?

If I understood the bill correctly, it will be retroactive.

But the bill allows increasing fees up to 50% every 3 years.

[gdennis317]

Will he surprised if this does not end up in the Courts.

[Altavia]

...

I'd like to see a reduction in taxes and an increase in services. That will NEVER happen so long as development continues developing at the pace it develops, while the developer pockets the profits and doesn't share the wealth with the county that provides it with all its permits.

The Developernt generates massive amounts of tax revenue. Here's a story to illustrate the point:

A guy looked at my Corvette other day and said,

"I wonder how many people could have been fed for the money that sports car cost?

I replied I'm not sure;
it fed a lot of families in Bowling Green, Kentucky who built it,
it fed the people who make the tires,
it fed the people who made the components that went into it,
it fed the people in the copper mine who mined the copper for the wires,
it fed people in at Caterpillar who make the trucks that haul the copper ore.
It fed the trucking people who hauled it from the plant to the dealer
and fed the people working at the dealership and their families.

BUT,... I have to admit, I guess I really don’t know how many people it fed.
That is the difference between capitalism and the welfare mentality.
When you buy something, you put money in people’s pockets and give them dignity for their skills.
When you give someone something for nothing, you rob them of their dignity and self-worth.

Capitalism is freely giving your money in exchange for something of value.
Socialism is having the government take your money against your will and give it to someone else for doing nothing.

[Velvet]

It sounds like there might be another attempt at getting the current homeowners to pay for impact fees if they get too high to build more homes. I’d be ok with the bill IF building would stop as soon as impact fees increase for new homeowners above the limit automatically. I do not think that many current homeowners want further development, I benefit from less not more congestion, etc and highly resent subsidizing new owners who can’t afford to buy here in the first place. I prefer to chose my own charities, thank you.

[JoMar]

Apparently there is a belief that one legislator controls the entire State.....there were 122 Yea votes and 35 Nay votes in the House and Senate, and that one person represents The Villages.....really? Most of those do not represent us. How will you deal with those that were of the same mind (knowledge) of what the increases would mean? Oh wait, the Developer controls them right?

[Velvet]

I am sorry but I thought that it was really underhanded to pass on the impact fees to current home owners through increased property taxes. I am pretty sure if that is tried again anywhere there will be a response. I’m ready to bet on it.

[Bogie Shooter]

Doesnt sit well with me when the guy who introduces the legislation is employed by the people it is designed to help.

Be interesting to see if he gets reelected, sure will not get my vote.

[/B]

He won't get my vote either.

Apparently there is a belief that one legislator controls the entire State.....there were 122 Yea votes and 35 Nay votes in the House and Senate, and that one person represents The Villages.....really? Most of those do not represent us. How will you deal with those that were of the same mind (knowledge) of what the increases would mean? Oh wait, the Developer controls them right?

Agree with JoMar.

Here are the sponsors of the Bill.....as a Sumter County residents I don't believe we can vote for them.

Rep. Nick DiCeglie of Pinellas County, the House bill sponsor, said “a relief valve” would exist for local governments that can convince voters of a need to go higher.

A companion bill is expected to sail through the Senate under the sponsorship of Sen. Joe Gruters, R-Sarasota, who is chairman of the Florida Republican Party.

[Stu from NYC]

Apparently there is a belief that one legislator controls the entire State.....there were 122 Yea votes and 35 Nay votes in the House and Senate, and that one person represents The Villages.....really? Most of those do not represent us. How will you deal with those that were of the same mind (knowledge) of what the increases would mean? Oh wait, the Developer controls them right?

The one legislator does not control the entire state but when he submits a bill that directly benefits the developer and he is employed by that developer does that not strike you as wrong, very wrong!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Robbie0723 this has nothing to do with capitalism and socialism. You're pulling at straws with my comments, extracting opinions I never made about facts I never claimed. I did not say I wanted the government to be our keepers. I said "more" services - not "all" services. Also, the developer is a pretty significant source of capitalism. UNLESS they reap the profits without giving back. And then, they are the recipient of capitalism, while the rest of us are the source.

Taxpayers pay taxes every year. Impact-fees are a one-time expense. A homeowner will see an increased impact fee as an increase in the base cost of their home, to the tune of perhaps $600 on top of what they're already paying. Period. Not every year. Just once, in the purchase price. In fact, if that home is re-sold, they will recoup that impact fee increase cost by passing it on to the new buyer. The developer won't have to pay a dime extra, then.

Meanwhile, taxpayers are still paying taxes, every year. The homebuyer is seeing a $200-400 tax increase every year, indefinitely.

I'd rather pay once, and pass the cost on to the next buyer when the time comes, than have to shell out extra every single year, multiple times what I would have had to pay, if I had only to pay it once when I purchased the home.

Your mileage may vary. If you prefer to pay the taxes, let me know your address and I'll send you our next year's tax bill.

[Rzepecki]

[/B]

He won't get my vote either.

Ditto!

[crash]

Does the bill imply that the needed impact fees should be paid by other people than the homebuyers themselves? Pass on the existing home owners, for example? THAT would say something very clearly to me about what is going on....
I hope the “predictable marketplace” also applies to present home owners.

Impact fees are a one time fee paid for by the developer (builder) they are not a tax as so often stated in the daily Sun. This of course means all the tax payers of Sumter county will be paying for the new roads that were needed to build south of 44 because the money will come out of the general fund.

[Syd2008]

Looks like not just our ‘developer’ issue. Statewide.

Lobbyists/businesses are all over government all all levels up to POTUS with $$$

[fastboat]

Doesnt sit well with me when the guy who introduces the legislation is employed by the people it is designed to help.

Be interesting to see if he gets reelected, sure will not get my vote.

Nor mine. Dislike people in power who do favors for other people with money while flipping the rest of us the bird.

[fastboat]

Good information in the above post. However it doesn’t answer an obvious question. Will this bill be post dated so that it reverses the recent Sumter County Commissioners vote regarding impact fees?

Yes, it is retroactive to January 1st to make sure the impact FEE increase passed by representatives of the citizens of Sumter doesn't effect Mr Hage's employer.

Time to get rid of the last 2 minions on the board of commissioners and put the governing of Sumter County back into the hands of its citizens.

[diva1]

Apparently there is a belief that one legislator controls the entire State.....there were 122 Yea votes and 35 Nay votes in the House and Senate, and that one person represents The Villages.....really? Most of those do not represent us. How will you deal with those that were of the same mind (knowledge) of what the increases would mean? Oh wait, the Developer controls them right?

Please! You know how this works. Brett Hage needs some votes...he votes for their bill and they vote for his. And please know that The Family is the Number 1 donator to the Republican Party in the State of Florida. So they have a lot of influence. The governor stops by for lunch with them for petes sake!

[Buckeye Bob]

This is government overreach. The state government should not be involved with county/city issues.

[Larchap49]

DeSantis and Republicans lost my vote although I won’t vote Democrat. Best government money can buy. If the impact fee doesn’t cover the cost of new infrastructure the commissioners shouldn’t build it and rezone as much residential back to industrial or agriculture. Taxes are going to skyrocket otherwise.

Sir this state probably has the best and most proactive Governor in the country. You should be grateful for his courage to stand up for the people of FL. If you doubt that then you simply aren't paying attention.

[Jim 9922]

Ditto!

[/B]

He won't get my vote either.

He won't need it. They will probably run another shill in the next election.

[Stu from NYC]

He won't need it. They will probably run another shill in the next election.

If they do hopefully we will know he/she is a shill and vote for somebody else who just might want to benefit we the people instead of just me the developer.

[EileenRo]

You need to read the bill to understand how it benefits the developer and not homeowners. It is a shame someone who was voted in office by Villagers is more loyal to his employer than us. Read the actual bill and look at the deletions and additions before you praise this bill as being helpful to homeowners.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Looks like not just our ‘developer’ issue. Statewide.

Lobbyists/businesses are all over government all all levels up to POTUS with $$$

The bill was penned and introduced to state legislature by an employee of the Villages, to prevent the state from allowing counties to increase impact fees. This would directly benefit the Villages developer, who is one of the biggest development companies in the state.

[EviesGP]

Everyone(including the TV propaganda paper) keeps saying it's a tax increase?! It's an IMPACT FEE! It's called that, because it's based on the "IMPACT" the development would have on the community and surroundings. It's not a BENEFICIAL TAX, based upon what benefit it would have on all of us(whom will pay for it). If this passes, I hope they take it to court, as I don't believe a higher govt body should be able to dictate to a lower body, what taxes or fees it can impose.

And if it passes, and is retroactive, then I think the commissioners should rollback the entire tax increase that was imposed in 2019! Something I was not necessarily in favor of before. Then, let's see how they want to pay for all the items that were put into the increase?! That includes the roads and infrastructure being built down south. It will speak for itself.

[merrymini]

I love people who want less taxes but more services. An oxymoron indeed!
I have not read the bill.
Hage is one of over a hundred representatives who voted on the bill.
I have not heard of any of these reps being called “Svengali.”
DeSantis is a terrific governor and is headed for greater things.

[Dond1959]

The bill was penned and introduced to state legislature by an employee of the Villages, to prevent the state from allowing counties to increase impact fees. This would directly benefit the Villages developer, who is one of the biggest development companies in the state.

Actually the bill originated in 2019, before the current Sumter commissioners even ran for office. It was proposed by a Tampa area representative due to the issue of new commissioners coming on and raising impact fees by a significant amount. Hage is a co sponsor but he didn’t “pen” the bill. It is fine to not like the bill but let’s be accurate in what we write.

[captboxcar]

Exactly

[Carla B]

I see this as a massive PR failure by The Developer. If the Sumter County Commissioners had introduced small increases in property taxes over the years, instead of the BIG increase, it may have gone unnoticed or at least created less fury. His commissioners may well have retained their seats. Then the Developer wouldn't have needed to rely on the State to resolve the problem to his liking.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I see this as a massive PR failure by The Developer. If the Sumter County Commissioners had introduced small increases in property taxes over the years, instead of the BIG increase, it may have gone unnoticed or at least created less fury. His commissioners may well have retained their seats. Then the Developer wouldn't have needed to rely on the State to resolve the problem to his liking.

If they had reduced the discount the Developer currently gets, AND increased the taxes by small percentages, then everyone would have had to chip in a few bucks, and no one would have felt more than a day's annoyance when the first bill came in.

The amount of work the Developer does in order to expand the Villages is staggering. I actually feel they SHOULD get a discounted impact fee per unit, because of it. But I also feel it shouldn't be as significant as it currently is. In addition, I ALSO feel that taxpayers should expect to pay more every few years, rather than pay stagnated taxes for 14 years and then get a sudden shock to their systems.

A bit of both would have gone a LONG way to make this a seamless, painless shift in funds from individual to county/state. The government was in charge of making this happen, and they chose the wrong way of doing it. And now we are ALL paying the price. Taxpayers and Developer.

[conman5652@aol.com]

Well here is the facts. The developers have u pay for development of the land in bonds. The builders sell the house at 2.5 X cost and walk away with over 50% net profit.
It’s really a shame that the developers are crying poor when they should step up and pay for the impact fee they have created. School, roads and medical coverage along with fire and police.
They have to give that fee to the county they build in and not the state.
Then maybe the system would be far for all

[Bearlythere]

So what's the problem ? Object to the Developer making money ? Be a developer yourself. Free country.

[Advogado]

Every time we pay our Sumter County property tax, we are, in substance, writing a check to the Developer in the amount of our 25% property tax hike. That tax hike was enacted by the Developer's puppet Commissioners to protect his sweetheart impact fee.

For a good description of the Developer's latest maneuver to protect that sweetheart impact fee, click here: In new bill, The Villages win and taxpayers lose - Orlando Sentinel (https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/editorials/os-op-the-villages-impact-fees-florida-legislature-20210427-nkpawuzlbjfdpom4lcctmt3elm-story.html)

Keep this in mind when State Representative Hage is up for re-election in the Republican primary, along with the Developer's two remaining puppet Commissioners: Breeden and Gilpin.

[kappy]

I am amazed that 66 other counties in Florida seem to have been willing to give up control of impact fees. Each county that imposed impact fees made their own determination of how much those fees should be. They no longer have that control. I wonder if the major developers in these other counties are as strong as our developer? The vote seemed very lopsided in favor of all developers in the state. IMHO, the advocates for higher impact fees in Sumter County, won the battle but lost the war. They say you can’t fight city hall. We must replace the two remaining Commissioners along with Baxley and Hage.

[Stu from NYC]

I am amazed that 66 other counties in Florida seem to have been willing to give up control of impact fees. Each county that imposed impact fees made their own determination of how much those fees should be. They no longer have that control. I wonder if the major developers in these other counties are as strong as our developer? The vote seemed very lopsided in favor of all developers in the state. IMHO, the advocates for higher impact fees in Sumter County, won the battle but lost the war. They say you can’t fight city hall. We must replace the two remaining Commissioners along with Baxley and Hage.

Wonder how much the going rate to buy these people is these days?

[kcrazorbackfan]

I really think it’s damn funny that you people ****ed off at the Developer still live here; there are so many people that don’t like what they do but continue to live here.

If I hated a place as much as some of you do, I’d sell (for a very good profit) and move to the place that you think is Nirvana.

[Altavia]

I'm confused, the bill says impact fees can be increased up to 50 percent?

How is that different from what the commissioners approved?

[Advogado]

I really think it’s damn funny that you people ****ed off at the Developer still live here; there are so many people that don’t like what they do but continue to live here.

If I hated a place as much as some of you do, I’d sell (for a very good profit) and move to the place that you think is Nirvana.

The criticism is corrupt local politics. That is something to be addressed and cleaned up, not moved away from. Tossing out Butler, Burgess, and Printz was a good first step, but obviously not enough. Breeden, Gilpin, Hage, and Baxley also have to go.

[Bill14564]

I'm confused, the bill says impact fees can be increased up to 50 percent?

How is that different from what the commissioners approved?

Going from memory so...

I believe the bill allows 12.5% per year and no more than 50% over four years but the commissioners raised the fees by 75%.

[Stu from NYC]

I really think it’s damn funny that you people ****ed off at the Developer still live here; there are so many people that don’t like what they do but continue to live here.

If I hated a place as much as some of you do, I’d sell (for a very good profit) and move to the place that you think is Nirvana.

The vast majority love it here but not happy with the local politics that is extremely corrupt and starting to do something about it.

[Altavia]

Going from memory so...

I believe the bill allows 12.5% per year and no more than 50% over four years but the commissioners raised the fees by 75%.

Thanks!

So what's wrong with capping and limiting the rate of increase of impact fees over time?

[Northwoods]

So, in retrospect, would “we” have been further ahead if the current Commissioners would have taken the 40% offer from The Developer? Or at least tried to negotiate... maybe nudge the number up a bit?

[Joe V.]

The vast majority love it here but not happy with the local politics that is extremely corrupt and starting to do something about it.

Do you have any evidence of a crime of corruption to share with us?

[tophcfa]

Do you have any evidence of a crime of corruption to share with us?

There is what one can get away with when they have the resources to always ultimately get their way, and then there is doing the right thing.

[Advogado]

Do you have any evidence of a crime of corruption to share with us?

There is plenty of evidence of corruption, and the evidence is well known to residents who don't rely on the Daily Sun for their local news.

That is why the Developer's puppets got booted out, last year, IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY by a 2-to-1 margin. Is it criminal corruption and can enough evidence be found for a criminal conviction? We will only know the answer if Florida law enforcement conducts a serious investigation, which seems unlikely. (The people with first-hand knowledge of the relevant facts are unlikely to heed your request to share the evidence with us.)

If you are really interested in understanding what has gone on and continues to go on, take a look at Hage's co-sponsorship of legislation worth hundreds of millions of dollars to the Developer (at the expense of Sumter County residents) while apparently on the payroll of the Developer and T&D.

[Two Bills]

There is plenty of evidence of corruption, and the evidence is well known to residents who don't rely on the Daily Sun for their local news.

Probably in the same place as all the stolen, and fake votes from the last election searchers still cannot find!:icon_wink:

[golfing eagles]

You know there are residents of Sumter County outside the Villages, whose streets are impassible with potholes. There are residents of Sumter, Marion, and Lake County whose children have sub-par public education, but can't afford private school for their kids. You know there's an entire section of the Ocala Forest filled with homeless people (yes, there are drug addicts among them but there are also just flat out poor people too), who have no resources to build themselves up to a better life, because those resources rely primarily on donations from people who are choosing to spend their money on dinner at Augustine's and trips back to their summer homes up north instead. You know there are tens of thousands of underpaid workers who have chosen to accept a handout from the government, because the federal government is willing to give them a living wage, and if they stay at their jobs they have to apply for food stamps and housing credits and medicaid (courtesy of the taxpayer).

Our tax dollars will pay for all of this, whether the developers pass their impact fee on to homebuyers or not. Whether we spend it on medicaid for the homeless, or improving schools so fewer people NEED medicaid, or fixing roads to people can get to work - since "public transit" is a joke in this state...

I'd like to see a reduction in taxes and an increase in services. That will NEVER happen so long as development continues developing at the pace it develops, while the developer pockets the profits and doesn't share the wealth with the county that provides it with all its permits.

///

[Dond1959]

There is plenty of evidence of corruption, and the evidence is well known to residents who don't rely on the Daily Sun for their local news.

That is why the Developer's puppets got booted out, last year, IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY by a 2-to-1 margin. Is it criminal corruption and can enough evidence be found for a criminal conviction? We will only know the answer if Florida law enforcement conducts a serious investigation, which seems unlikely. (The people with first-hand knowledge of the relevant facts are unlikely to heed your request to share the evidence with us.)

If you are really interested in understanding what has gone on and continues to go on, take a look at Hage's co-sponsorship of legislation worth hundreds of millions of dollars to the Developer (at the expense of Sumter County residents) while apparently on the payroll of the Developer and T&D.

You can believe there is corruption but as a former SA of the FBI you know a case has to be built and brought to court with a conviction to prove that allegation. We are far from that.

But the biggest stretch in your comment is the “hundreds of millions” comment. Let’s say the developer builds 2400 new homes each year, which is pretty close for the past 4 years. The increase was 75% or about an additional $700 per home. That is $1.68 million per year. As a former finance guy I can tell you with certainty it would take over 50 years to reach even $100 million, much less hundreds of millions.

As I have stated in the past, it is your exaggerations of facts that hurt your arguments.

[Bill14564]

So, in retrospect, would “we” have been further ahead if the current Commissioners would have taken the 40% offer from The Developer? Or at least tried to negotiate... maybe nudge the number up a bit?

That's hard to say for a few reasons:
- The 40% offer was only on the small portion of new construction that is assessed the lowest impact fees.

- The 40% offer came with a catch, impact fees for the rest of the new construction where the larger impact fees are paid would have been locked with no increases for several years.

- The bill to limit impact fees was still going through the legislature. It could have been determined that the 40% would still be lowered under the new bill but that the agreement to freeze the rest of the fees was still enforceable.

- On the other hand, if the bill had allowed the terms of the agreement then a 40% increase for some new construction might have been greater than a 12.5% increase for all new construction.

[Advogado]

You can believe there is corruption but as a former SA of the FBI you know a case has to be built and brought to court with a conviction to prove that allegation. We are far from that.

But the biggest stretch in your comment is the “hundreds of millions” comment. Let’s say the developer builds 2400 new homes each year, which is pretty close for the past 4 years. The increase was 75% or about an additional $700 per home. That is $1.68 million per year. As a former finance guy I can tell you with certainty it would take over 50 years to reach even $100 million, much less hundreds of millions.

As I have stated in the past, it is your exaggerations of facts that hurt your arguments.

While you are a former finance guy, I am a former corporate lawyer who used to have to review business plans and cut through the unrealistic assumptions that you finance guys would make. :icon_wink:

As I have stated in the past, my figure of “hundreds of millions” is not an exaggeration. In a nutshell, while the exact amount of the impact fees that the Developer should be paying cannot be calculated without an impact study, it is instructive to look at what he would pay in Collier County, which has done the study for a retirement community's impact on county infrastructure. In that County, the Developer would pay more than $20,000 more per house than he pays here. Go to the Collier County website for proof.

The Developer is going to build 60,000 additional houses here. 60,000 houses x $20,000/house = $1.2 billion value to the Developer from his sweetheart impact fee (and cost to the current residents). Furthermore, the $1.2 billion does not include the amount the Developer gets from the sweetheart fee on his commercial buildings.

But you are right, the 75% road-impact fee increase was not enough to total what the Developer should be paying. In addition to roads, the Developer needs to pay an impact fee for other county infrastructure, like fire, ems, police, libraries, parks, government buildings, etc. He would have to pay it in Collier County, where he doesn't control the County Commission. He, and not the current residents, should be bearing the cost here. If you were following the news, you would know that our new County Commissioners have voted to conduct an impact-fee study regarding those additional infrastructure items. However, the Developer appears to have out maneuvered our new Commissioners in Tallahassee.

Bottom line: if anything, my figure of "hundreds of millions” is far from an exaggeration. It may well be an understatement of the benefit to the Developer and the cost to the residents.

BTW, what do you think of Hage's actions?

[Bogie Shooter]

As I have stated in the past........over and over.

[JP]

It's nice to see commissioners who overstepped their authority stopped.

[Bill14564]

It's nice to see commissioners who overstepped their authority stopped.

Assuming you mean the current commissioners, in what way did they overstep their authority? You may not agree with what they did but many did. Where was the overstep?

[Joe V.]

There is plenty of evidence of corruption, and the evidence is well known to residents who don't rely on the Daily Sun for their local news.

That is why the Developer's puppets got booted out, last year, IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY by a 2-to-1 margin. Is it criminal corruption and can enough evidence be found for a criminal conviction? We will only know the answer if Florida law enforcement conducts a serious investigation, which seems unlikely. (The people with first-hand knowledge of the relevant facts are unlikely to heed your request to share the evidence with us.)

If you are really interested in understanding what has gone on and continues to go on, take a look at Hage's co-sponsorship of legislation worth hundreds of millions of dollars to the Developer (at the expense of Sumter County residents) while apparently on the payroll of the Developer and T&D.

So, no evidence of corruption. Just your opinions. "If" is not prima facea evidence. Thanks.

[tvbound]

Florida isn't much different than a lot of places, in that the attitude of "whatever it takes for my people to stay in power" and "the best government money can buy" - seems to be the prevailing sentiment.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Florida isn't much different than a lot of places, in that the attitude of "whatever it takes for my people to stay in power" and "the best government money can buy" - seems to be the prevailing sentiment.

There's not a lot of quality government when most of the previous year you relied on revenue from tourism during a pandemic when most things were shut down.

You get what you pay for. The lower the taxes (including no income tax, plus massive tax breaks for corporations and the uber-wealthy), the less money you have available to buy a quality government. Not that I think we need an income tax - but we, as a state (exclusive of the Villages which is a different plane of existence on another planet), need to make improvements in the revenue stream and improvements in distribution of funds.

[Bilyclub]

Most of the modern politicians are in it for the money. The days of a modest person like Harry Truman rising through the political ranks are gone. In the quest for millions they ride that gray area to riches.

[Advogado]

So, no evidence of corruption. Just your opinions. "If" is not prima facea evidence. Thanks.
Hardly just my opinion.

The Hage-gate scandal is well documented, as is the whole history of the Developer's relationship with his puppet Sumter County Commissioners, his backing of One Sumter, his sweetheart deal with impact fees, the use of fake candidates to disenfranchise voters in the last Republican primary, avoidance of the $1,000 cap on local-election campaign contributions, the conduct of George Angeliadis's fishing expedition to try to intimidate the new Commissioners and their supporters, etc.

[Joe V.]

Hardly just my opinion.

The Hage-gate scandal is well documented, as is the whole history of the Developer's relationship with his puppet Sumter County Commissioners, his backing of One Sumter, his sweetheart deal with impact fees, the use of fake candidates to disenfranchise voters in the last Republican primary, avoidance of the $1,000 cap on local-election campaign contributions, the conduct of George Angeliadis's fishing expedition to try to intimidate the new Commissioners and their supporters, etc.

I see no one charged or indicted for any of your claims. Fortunately the majority of the state legislature had the wisdom to prevent the collapse of future economic growth of the state by renegade county commissioners. Making it retroactive to Jan, 1st was another win for sustained growth in Sumter County.

[Aloha1]

There is plenty of evidence of corruption, and the evidence is well known to residents who don't rely on the Daily Sun for their local news.

That is why the Developer's puppets got booted out, last year, IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY by a 2-to-1 margin. Is it criminal corruption and can enough evidence be found for a criminal conviction? We will only know the answer if Florida law enforcement conducts a serious investigation, which seems unlikely. (The people with first-hand knowledge of the relevant facts are unlikely to heed your request to share the evidence with us.)

If you are really interested in understanding what has gone on and continues to go on, take a look at Hage's co-sponsorship of legislation worth hundreds of millions of dollars to the Developer (at the expense of Sumter County residents) while apparently on the payroll of the Developer and T&D.

Well, perhaps you can tell us EXACTLY what these "corrupt" things are. Please detail exactly what the crimes are and what laws were broken. We'll wait....

[Advogado]

Well, perhaps you can tell us EXACTLY what these "corrupt" things are. Please detail exactly what the crimes are and what laws were broken. We'll wait....
Corruption may or may not be criminal, and any criminality is not going to be provable except via a criminal investigation by the appropriate authorities.

"Corruption" is defined as dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power. I have provided examples of actions that most people would consider corrupt. If you want more details, they are readily available through the use of Goggle. You will find a number of relevant, verifiable facts in articles in the on-line newspaper.

[Advogado]

I see no one charged or indicted for any of your claims. Fortunately the majority of the state legislature had the wisdom to prevent the collapse of future economic growth of the state by renegade county commissioners. Making it retroactive to Jan, 1st was another win for sustained growth in Sumter County.

Those so-called "renegade" county Commissioners were overwhelmingly elected by the residents of Sumter County. Those residents were outraged about being hit with a 25% property-tax increase, enacted by the Developer's puppet Commissioners to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee.

[Joe V.]

Those so-called "renegade" county Commissioners were overwhelmingly elected by the residents of Sumter County. Those residents were outraged about being hit with a 25% property-tax increase, enacted by the Developer's puppet Commissioners to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee.

Too bad for you there are way more representatives of the people in the legislature that have their economic wits about them and saved state's and the county's future economic success.

[Joe V.]

Corruption may or may not be criminal, and any criminality is not going to be provable except via a criminal investigation by the appropriate authorities.

"Corruption" is defined as dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power. I have provided examples of actions that most people would consider corrupt. If you want more details, they are readily available through the use of Goggle. You will find a number of relevant, verifiable facts in articles in the on-line newspaper.

You have provided no evidence of corruption. Just your sour grapes.

[Dond1959]

While you are a former finance guy, I am a former corporate lawyer who used to have to review business plans and cut through the unrealistic assumptions that you finance guys would make. :icon_wink:

As I have stated in the past, my figure of “hundreds of millions” is not an exaggeration. In a nutshell, while the exact amount of the impact fees that the Developer should be paying cannot be calculated without an impact study, it is instructive to look at what he would pay in Collier County, which has done the study for a retirement community's impact on county infrastructure. In that County, the Developer would pay more than $20,000 more per house than he pays here. Go to the Collier County website for proof.

The Developer is going to build 60,000 additional houses here. 60,000 houses x $20,000/house = $1.2 billion value to the Developer from his sweetheart impact fee (and cost to the current residents). Furthermore, the $1.2 billion does not include the amount the Developer gets from the sweetheart fee on his commercial buildings.

But you are right, the 75% road-impact fee increase was not enough to total what the Developer should be paying. In addition to roads, the Developer needs to pay an impact fee for other county infrastructure, like fire, ems, police, libraries, parks, government buildings, etc. He would have to pay it in Collier County, where he doesn't control the County Commission. He, and not the current residents, should be bearing the cost here. If you were following the news, you would know that our new County Commissioners have voted to conduct an impact-fee study regarding those additional infrastructure items. However, the Developer appears to have out maneuvered our new Commissioners in Tallahassee.

Bottom line: if anything, my figure of "hundreds of millions” is far from an exaggeration. It may well be an understatement of the benefit to the Developer and the cost to the residents.

BTW, what do you think of Hage's actions?

Come on, in one previous post you told me you were a SA for the FBI in New Jersey. Now a corporate lawyer? Hundreds of millions include homes that have not been built at a rate that no one, including the current commissioners in Sumter County, have ever stated is the correct amount. Again, your numbers don’t add up. As far as Hage, all politicians listen to businesses in the area they represent. If there is a specific law he violated please report it to the appropriate authorities.

It is amazing that people are shocked that politicians are influenced by businesses. I guess labor unions and teachers unions don’t do the same thing or worse. Trial lawyers have no influence right? How about, never mind…I am sure you stopped listening.

[Advogado]

So, no evidence of corruption. Just your opinions. "If" is not prima facea evidence. Thanks.

I have provided plenty of evidence of corruption, all of which is publicly available from other sources as well, not just from me. You decide if you think that the evidence of corruption is proof of criminal corruption. I would be particularly interested in your views on Hage's actions on behalf of his employer, the Developer.

[Advogado]

Come on, in one previous post you told me you were a SA for the FBI in New Jersey. Now a corporate lawyer? Hundreds of millions include homes that have not been built at a rate that no one, including the current commissioners in Sumter County, have ever stated is the correct amount. Again, your numbers don’t add up. As far as Hage, all politicians listen to businesses in the area they represent. If there is a specific law he violated please report it to the appropriate authorities.

It is amazing that people are shocked that politicians are influenced by businesses. I guess labor unions and teachers unions don’t do the same thing or worse. Trial lawyers have no influence right? How about, never mind…I am sure you stopped listening.
All statements that I have made are true, including those about my background.

[Ben Franklin]

Making people who already live in the county pay for the future, that new homebuyers create IS government taking your money and giving it to new homebuyers. It's also called socialism. These politicians are Republican in name only.

[Altavia]

Making people who already live in the county pay for the future, that new homebuyers create IS government taking your money and giving it to new homebuyers. It's also called socialism. These politicians are Republican in name only.

New homes pay a higher percentage than legacy homeowners in property taxes and bonds. Existing homeowners benefit from the expansion through the growing tax base and the compression of their tax rate due to the homestead exemption. Continuous growth is why taxes did not increase the past ten years.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

New homes pay a higher percentage than legacy homeowners in property taxes and bonds. Existing homeowners benefit from the expansion through the growing tax base and the compression of their tax rate due to the homestead exemption. Continuous growth is why taxes did not increase the past ten years.

If that last line was the reason for them not increasing their taxes, then they wouldn't have needed to catch up after 14 years of no increase.

Fact is, Sumter County has not fared well with their budget. Remember SOMEONE owned all that land during the past 14 years, and SOMEONE was paying taxes on it all along, even the parts that weren't being developed.

But the tax amounts were stagnant, and now they're behind on their bills, and don't have enough to pay for certain services that you, the taxpayer, enjoy.

So now they have to catch up. If they had made MODEST increases every year, instead of relying on new development to foot the bill for everyone else, they wouldn't have had any need to catch up.