CDC Clarifies Letter to Cruise Lines

[OmniTours]

CDC Clarifies Letter to Cruise Lines

The CDC issued a clarification of their letter to the cruise lines to Cruise Industry News this afternoon and stated that it looks at a timeline of passenger voyages by mid-July.

According to Caitlin Shockey, CDC spokesperson, over the past month, senior leadership from the CDC has met twice-weekly with representatives from cruise lines to discuss the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO). Within these meetings, participants asked questions and discussed the fastest path back to sailing without compromising safety, she said. Today, in response to the industry’s feedback, the CDC announced five key clarifications with the existing CSO framework.

CLICK HERE TO READ MORE (https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/24896-cdc-aims-for-july-start-up.html)

[billethkid]

Proof of vaccination required!

[Stu from NYC]

When they start up again and we do not need to wear masks on board we will be booking several.

Hopefully they will not require us to only get off the ship with cruise line tours. If so can deal with that for a time.

For caribbean we prefer going on our own to beaches coming and going as we please.

[Arctic Fox]

Hopefully they will not require us to only get off the ship with cruise line tours. If so can deal with that for a time.

We have taken only two "cruise line" tours. The first was okay but overpriced, and we spent half of the time waiting for people to get on and off the bus. The second was basically a bus ride to the mall, going past the local points of interest but not stopping to enjoy them. Never again!

I have heard that this restriction is designed to prevent passengers bringing the virus back on to the ship (rather than taking it off the ship into the local community) but one would think (with everyone fully vaccinated) that using lateral flow tests before reboarding would suffice (if the cruise lines really want to lift the restriction!)

[Stu from NYC]

We have taken only two "cruise line" tours. The first was okay but overpriced, and we spent half of the time waiting for people to get on and off the bus. The second was basically a bus ride to the mall, going past the local points of interest but not stopping to enjoy them. Never again!

I have heard that this restriction is designed to prevent passengers bringing the virus back on to the ship (rather than taking it off the ship into the local community) but one would think (with everyone fully vaccinated) that using lateral flow tests before reboarding would suffice (if the cruise lines really want to lift the restriction!)

Since cruise lines typically mark up tours 100% they will want to do this for our "protection". They already use scare tactics that we will miss the ship if we go off on our own. Just use common sense and get back well before sail time.

Would much rather go on a tour in a van with say 15 people than a bus with 50 taking forever to unload and than load passengers.

[2newyorkers]

We also for the most part, do not take cruise ship tours. Just to make you aware some cruise lines will match the price of a private tour if you can find it cheaper.

We have a cruise booked to the Caribbean to check the waters so to speak. One of our main questions is will we be able to just get off the ship to walk around on our own.

[Arctic Fox]

...some cruise lines will match the price of a private tour if you can find it cheaper.

Interesting. I have not heard this before. On which cruise lines have you experienced this?

[Bill14564]

Proof of vaccination required!

I read the article twice and didn't see anything that said "proof of vaccination required."

[2newyorkers]

Interesting. I have not heard this before. On which cruise lines have you experienced this?

Princess and I also think they give a Veterans discount.

[billethkid]

Princess and I also think they give a Veterans discount.

Yes Princess gives a veteran's discount.

[Stu from NYC]

Interesting. I have not heard this before. On which cruise lines have you experienced this?

Carnival will do it but it has to be an exact match. Any slight difference and they will not.

The problem is you go with the cruise line on a large bus.

[Tmarkwald]

Yes Princess gives a veteran's discount.

So does Royal and Celebrity..

[Tmarkwald]

I read the article twice and didn't see anything that said "proof of vaccination required."

Its says the cruiseline must attest that the passengers and crew are vaccinated.

So, yeah, you'll need proof.

[Bill14564]

Its says the cruiseline must attest that the passengers and crew are vaccinated.

So, yeah, you'll need proof.

That is an assumption as to what the cruise lines will do in order to make that attestation. It may turn out to be correct but today it is only an assumption.

[GeriS]

I won’t ever be cruising if vaccine is required for something with a 99.xx% recovery rate & cures that are available. We are being played.

[Girlcopper]

When they start up again and we do not need to wear masks on board we will be booking several.

Hopefully they will not require us to only get off the ship with cruise line tours. If so can deal with that for a time.

For caribbean we prefer going on our own to beaches coming and going as we please.
I think cruises will have to follow the restrictions of the port of call. Their requirements, masks, vaccines etc have to be enforced or no one is getting off the ship

[tuccillo]

In some places, the current requirement is a recent COVID test. For example, the USVI. The BVI is even more restricted with a second test required after 4 days, and then another test to get back into the US. Hopefully, proof of a vaccination will be accepted in the near future in lieu of COVID tests.

I think cruises will have to follow the restrictions of the port of call. Their requirements, masks, vaccines etc have to be enforced or no one is getting off the ship

[Bill14564]

I think cruises will have to follow the restrictions of the port of call. Their requirements, masks, vaccines etc have to be enforced or no one is getting off the ship

Absolutely. The ports of call are sovereign countries with their own laws and regulations. Anyone who gets off the ship will certainly have to follow those laws and regulations.

There are still some questions left to be answered:
- Will the countries attempt to impose these requirements on ships entering their waters, even for those who do not get off the ship?

- While there may be requirements like quarantines and retesting after four days, these only make sense for overnight visitors. What will be the requirements for travelers visiting for only a few hours?

- For some of these countries the cruise industry brings in a lot of money. Are they willing to put up walls to prevent that money from coming in?

Have these questions already been answered? Cruises haven't restarted from US ports but are there already sailings from non-US ports?

[Bill14564]

I won’t ever be cruising if vaccine is required for something with a 99.xx% recovery rate & cures that are available. We are being played.

But what about Covid which doesn't have a 99.xx% recovery and there are no cures? (treatments that sometimes help but no cures)

[tuccillo]

No, that is not correct. In the case of the BVI, the current requirement for testing upon arrival, quarantining for 4 days, and retesting before you can move about is based in an incubation period of 4 days. Whether you are there for a week or just the day, they want to be sure you are not contagious before you can move about freely.



- While there may be requirements like quarantines and retesting after four days, these only make sense for overnight visitors. What will be the requirements for travelers visiting for only a few hours?

[DAVES]

CDC Clarifies Letter to Cruise Lines

The CDC issued a clarification of their letter to the cruise lines to Cruise Industry News this afternoon and stated that it looks at a timeline of passenger voyages by mid-July.

According to Caitlin Shockey, CDC spokesperson, over the past month, senior leadership from the CDC has met twice-weekly with representatives from cruise lines to discuss the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO). Within these meetings, participants asked questions and discussed the fastest path back to sailing without compromising safety, she said. Today, in response to the industry’s feedback, the CDC announced five key clarifications with the existing CSO framework.

CLICK HERE TO READ MORE (https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/24896-cdc-aims-for-july-start-up.html)


Like so many of these issues there is a conflict between reality and law.

On a ship you are in close quarters. Not only that the crew is from all over the world.

We know about stuff like legionnaires disease. I expect, as much as possible the cruse lines do their best to prevent disease as well as suppressing news that may be negative, from getting out. On a ship it may or may not be possible to get you off by helicopter.
The destination may or may not chose to let a ship with people who are ill land in their country.

All life involves risk. You can get hit by a car going to get a vaccine. Such is life.

[Bill14564]

No, that is not correct. In the case of the BVI, the current requirement for testing upon arrival, quarantining for 4 days, and retesting before you can move about is based in an incubation period of 4 days. Whether you are there for a week or just the day, they want to be sure you are not contagious before you can move about freely.

I guess I wasn't clear. If I'm only on the island for six hours then there is no way to quarantine me for four days and retest me after the four days. They could say they have a four-day quarantine and there is no point in even getting off the ship.

[tuccillo]

That is certainly your choice but consider that the cruise lines and other passengers don't want to be burdened by you if you develop COVID symptoms on the boat. The vaccine reduces this probability to a very small number. Also, part of the reason for vaccinations is to hopefully reduce the probability of a mutation that is worse then what we currently have. You can believe you are being played but the rest of us know we aren't.

I won’t ever be cruising if vaccine is required for something with a 99.xx% recovery rate & cures that are available. We are being played.

[tuccillo]

Under the current rules in the BVI, you are required to install an app on your phone and wear a bracelet. No cruise ships are currently going to the BVI. Private yachts are allowed with the restrictions I already mentioned. I am explaining the rules to you and why they are in place. The rules will likely change in June when I believe the BVI will start accepting cruise ships. That will obviously mean they don't require a 4-day quarantine with retesting. As I previous stated, under the current rules you would not be able to move about freely until after a 4 day quarantine. I hope this clears things up for you.

I guess I wasn't clear. If I'm only on the island for six hours then there is no way to quarantine me for four days and retest me after the four days. They could say they have a four-day quarantine and there is no point in even getting off the ship.

[Bill14564]

Under the current rules in the BVI, you are required to install an app on your phone and wear a bracelet. No cruise ships are currently going to the BVI. Private yachts are allowed with the restrictions I already mentioned. I am explaining the rules to you and why they are in place. The rules will likely change in June when I believe the BVI will start accepting cruise ships. That will obviously mean they don't require a 4-day quarantine with retesting. As I previous stated, under the current rules you would not be able to move about freely until after a 4 day quarantine. I hope this clears things up for you.

I don't understand your objection. You state that no cruise ships are currently going to the BVI and the rules will likely change in June when the BVI may start accepting cruise ships. I noted that the current rules only made sense for visitors staying for more than a day and I wondered how they might change for visits of only a few hours. We seem to be in agreement that these rules won't work for visitors from cruise ships and may change when cruise ships are again allowed.

[dadoiron]

I read the article twice and didn't see anything that said "proof of vaccination required."

FYI, When you make your final payment and fill in the required info there will be a new Field to plug in a copy of your Covid vaccine card. Info from various cruise agents on the front line.

[dadoiron]

FYI, When you make your final payment and fill in the required info there will be a new Field to plug in a copy of your Covid vaccine card. Info from various cruise agents on the front line.

Quarantine doesn't apply to those who can prove they had the vaccines. Getting on/off ship is not supposed to be an issue.

Supposedly CDC via WHO is getting agreements in place?

Not sure what they will do with the 1% that don't have it. But they better have the insurance and hope it will cover their mistake but it probably won't as it is easily preventable by getting the vaccine.

[Tmarkwald]

That is certainly your choice but consider that the cruise lines and other passengers don't want to be burdened by you if you develop COVID symptoms on the boat. The vaccine reduces this probability to a very small number. Also, part of the reason for vaccinations is to hopefully reduce the probability of a mutation that is worse then what we currently have. You can believe you are being played but the rest of us know we aren't.

Bingo

[Stu from NYC]

I think cruises will have to follow the restrictions of the port of call. Their requirements, masks, vaccines etc have to be enforced or no one is getting off the ship

In the short run that will be the rule but wondering when life will get back to normal.

This is why the next cruise we are about to book will be Nov 2022.

[oneclickplus]

Its says the cruiseline must attest that the passengers and crew are vaccinated.

So, yeah, you'll need proof.

No, it doesn't. This is the exact wording:

"if a ship attests that 98 percent of its crew and 95 percent of its passengers are fully vaccinated."

Count me in that 5%. I don't need proof of anything.

[Fore!]

I won’t ever be cruising if vaccine is required for something with a 99.xx% recovery rate & cures that are available. We are being played.
Amen!

[Fore!]

No, it doesn't. This is the exact wording:

"if a ship attests that 98 percent of its crew and 95 percent of its passengers are fully vaccinated."

Count me in that 5%. I don't need proof of anything.

Thank you! Just because someone is vaccinated does not mean that they cannot get CoVid and give it to another person. Also, people who have been vaccinated have died. Vaccination is not a guarantee. Get over it people. There are those who have reasons ( medical or otherwise) not to get vaccinated.

[stanley]

I won’t ever be cruising if vaccine is required for something with a 99.xx% recovery rate & cures that are available. We are being played.


Yep. I wonder, of the supposed 31.2% of the people that are fully vaccinated, what percentage of those cruise on a regular basis?

"As of 6 a.m. EDT May 1, a total of 103,422,555 Americans had been fully vaccinated, or 31.2 percent of the country's population, according to the CDC's data."

States ranked by percentage of population fully vaccinated: May 2 (https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html)

[tuccillo]

I don’t have any objections. The current rules make sense regardless of how long you are staying, despite your claim. The rules are likely to change, perhaps going to a requirement for being vaccinated instead of multiple COVID tests, as I already stated. I am not sure I see whatever point you are attempting to make. The rules are what the rules are until they change.

I don't understand your objection. You state that no cruise ships are currently going to the BVI and the rules will likely change in June when the BVI may start accepting cruise ships. I noted that the current rules only made sense for visitors staying for more than a day and I wondered how they might change for visits of only a few hours. We seem to be in agreement that these rules won't work for visitors from cruise ships and may change when cruise ships are again allowed.

[Tmarkwald]

No, it doesn't. This is the exact wording:

"if a ship attests that 98 percent of its crew and 95 percent of its passengers are fully vaccinated."

Count me in that 5%. I don't need proof of anything.

That 5% is only for people who had shot 1 and had a documented allergic reaction at the vaccination location.

And attesting means that you must prove to the cruiseline you are vaccinated or have a medical reaction.

[Bill14564]

That 5% is only for people who had shot 1 and had a documented allergic reaction at the vaccination location.

And attesting means that you must prove to the cruiseline you are vaccinated or have a medical reaction.

Attesting, according to the dictionary, means you state that something is true. If the requirement was for proof then the CDC should have used a different word such as "document."

Of course, what the CDC writes and how that gets interpreted or implemented can be entirely different.

[Tmarkwald]

Attesting, according to the dictionary, means you state that something is true. If the requirement was for proof then the CDC should have used a different word such as "document."

Of course, what the CDC writes and how that gets interpreted or implemented can be entirely different.

The cruiseline will require the proof from the passenger. Then they (the cruiseline) will attest to the CDC. The ports may require the attestation OR the actual proof.

So, no, you don't have to provide proof to the CDC, only to the cruiseline.

Time will tell.. The ships won't take ANY chances. They'd rather leave someone behind because the paperwork looks dodgy than take any chance of an outbreak.

[Tee4ta]

Vaccines are always a balance between a public health imperative and individual freedoms. The government has to MANDATE certain vaccines (i.e. to attend public school) because the risk of disability/death to one particular individual is so low that many will likely refuse the vaccine for themselves or their children. If too many refuse, an outbreak could be devastating to many. Generally, we vaccinate for the good of society, not for ourselves, because outbreaks of diseases with mandated vaccines are so infrequent. Covid certainly falls within the range of transmissibility and death/disability rates overall of other diseases that have mandated vaccines (but very low for the individual, so unsurprisingly many are refusing to be vaccinated) so I am interested to see if the vaccine will be mandated in more settings than cruise ships, colleges. Maybe elder care settings?

[Tmarkwald]

Vaccines are always a balance between a public health imperative and individual freedoms.

The government has to MANDATE certain vaccines (i.e. to attend public school) because the risk of disability/death to one particular individual is so low that many will likely refuse the vaccine for themselves or their children.

If too many refuse, an outbreak could be devastating to many. Generally, we vaccinate for the good of society, not for ourselves, because outbreaks of diseases with mandated vaccines are so infrequent.

Covid certainly falls within the range of transmissibility and death/disability rates overall of other diseases that have mandated vaccines (but very low for the individual, so unsurprisingly many are refusing to be vaccinated) so I am interested to see if the vaccine will be mandated in more settings than cruise ships, colleges. Maybe elder care settings?

I think you nailed it. Most Universities have already made it mandatory for Fall semester, and I would not be surprised if once the vaccine is approved for use in schools, it will become part of the mandate as well. It's the only intelligent thing to do.

And it has been upheld several times by the US Supreme Court.

We may still see outbreaks, but that should be isolate to those who refused to get the protection/vaccine.

Spock always had it right....

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

No, it doesn't. This is the exact wording:

"if a ship attests that 98 percent of its crew and 95 percent of its passengers are fully vaccinated."

Count me in that 5%. I don't need proof of anything.

Perhaps you are missing the math.

If 6% of the people who WANT to be passengers are not fully vaccinated or can't show proof of it, then 1/6 of those people will be told their presence is not welcome aboard.

You are a member of that 6%. So you might be culled from the herd at the last minute. They'll probably put you on a waiting list, if you refuse to show proof of immunity. And then, when all the people who DO have vaccines are assigned their staterooms, they'll call you and tell you you're either a) a lucky passenger who gets to go or b) sorry no room at the inn.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Attesting, according to the dictionary, means you state that something is true. If the requirement was for proof then the CDC should have used a different word such as "document."

Of course, what the CDC writes and how that gets interpreted or implemented can be entirely different.

YOU don't have to attest anything at all.

The SHIP has to attest it. And they will cover THEIR butts by requiring proof from their passengers, so that their testimony (which is what it's called when you attest to someone) is based on evidence, not on guestimations.

While some people have no problem with fudging facts to fit their narrative and bypass rules to do whatever they want and to hell with the rules and the needs of the many, most people will either comply honestly, or bow out of the experience entirely.

[Tmarkwald]

Perhaps you are missing the math.

If 6% of the people who WANT to be passengers are not fully vaccinated or can't show proof of it, then 1/6 of those people will be told their presence is not welcome aboard.

You are a member of that 6%. So you might be culled from the herd at the last minute. They'll probably put you on a waiting list, if you refuse to show proof of immunity. And then, when all the people who DO have vaccines are assigned their staterooms, they'll call you and tell you you're either a) a lucky passenger who gets to go or b) sorry no room at the inn.

When I called and asked about this, they said that a small percentage of people (<1%) have an allergic reaction to shot #1 and that this gave the leeway for people who only had 1 shot out of the 2 shot regimen. All passengers will still have to provide proof. And the allergic reaction is documented along with the original shot on both the card and the state records.

And, with something like 67% protection from a single shot, it still make the chance of an infection extremely unlikely.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

When I called and asked about this, they said that a small percentage of people (<1%) have an allergic reaction to shot #1 and that this gave the leeway for people who only had 1 shot out of the 2 shot regimen. All passengers will still have to provide proof. And the allergic reaction is documented along with the original shot on both the card and the state records.

And, with something like 67% protection from a single shot, it still make the chance of an infection extremely unlikely.

There are also kids, who can't get vaccinated because they're under the recommended minimum age. You have to account for them being potential passengers as well. They can't have proof of being allergic since that's not the case at all. But their passports/birth certificates would be proof that they are exempt from being vaccinated.

[Bill14564]

YOU don't have to attest anything at all.

The SHIP has to attest it. And they will cover THEIR butts by requiring proof from their passengers, so that their testimony (which is what it's called when you attest to someone) is based on evidence, not on guestimations.

While some people have no problem with fudging facts to fit their narrative and bypass rules to do whatever they want and to hell with the rules and the needs of the many, most people will either comply honestly, or bow out of the experience entirely.

I'm pretty sure it's the cruise line company that must file the paperwork. SHIPs are largely incapable of writing.

You are guessing what the cruise line companies will choose to do. You may be right (you're probably right) but at this point you are guessing.

The needs of the many have already been satisfied, it is the needs of the few that are being catered to now. The many have had their vaccinations and are almost entirely safe from the virus. Those who are unsafe are those who have now actively chosen not to be vaccinated.

[Tmarkwald]

There are also kids, who can't get vaccinated because they're under the recommended minimum age. You have to account for them being potential passengers as well. They can't have proof of being allergic since that's not the case at all. But their passports/birth certificates would be proof that they are exempt from being vaccinated.

They've already said no kids.. actually they said that the number of kids are so low as not really matter right now.

[Tmarkwald]

The needs of the many have already been satisfied, it is the needs of the few that are being catered to now. The many have had their vaccinations and are almost entirely safe from the virus. Those who are unsafe are those who have now actively chosen not to be vaccinated.


Spoken like Spock .. extremely logical

The few who make bad decisions must live, or die, with that decision.

[Bill14564]

There are also kids, who can't get vaccinated because they're under the recommended minimum age. You have to account for them being potential passengers as well. They can't have proof of being allergic since that's not the case at all. But their passports/birth certificates would be proof that they are exempt from being vaccinated.

Several problems with using children as leverage but let's try this.... What is the recommended minimum age in July when ships *might* start sailing or 2022 when ships will likely be sailing? My crystal ball doesn't work that well but I know I saw a headline suggesting the minimum age might be 12 before the end of the month.

[Tmarkwald]

Several problems with using children as leverage but let's try this.... What is the recommended minimum age in July when ships *might* start sailing or 2022 when ships will likely be sailing? My crystal ball doesn't work that well but I know I saw a headline suggesting the minimum age might be 12 before the end of the month.

I've heard that as well. They anticipate that the minimum age for the vaccine will drop from 16 to 12 this month I think.. So that makes perfect sense.