For all of our science loving friends…..

[mrrmauu]

Fully Vaccinated People Can Stop Wearing Face Masks, Physical Distancing in Most Settings, CDC Says (https://apple.news/ASwQ5vpb9QKO-3eCnLhH5Zg)

Fully Vaccinated People Can Stop Wearing Face Masks, Physical Distancing in Most Settings, CDC Says.

[I'm Popeye!]

Are we getting some kind of stamp for our foreheads to prove we got vaccinated? :duck:

[stanley]

Are we getting some kind of stamp for our foreheads to prove we got vaccinated? :duck:
......

[Becca9800]

Are we getting some kind of stamp for our foreheads to prove we got vaccinated? :duck:

Nope. No enforcement is forthcoming for those unvaccinated wo a mask. Why? Because they know penalty could not be upheld.

[fishon]

89472

[mrrmauu]

Fully Vaccinated People Can Stop Wearing Face Masks, Physical Distancing in Most Settings, CDC Says (https://apple.news/ASwQ5vpb9QKO-3eCnLhH5Zg)

Fully Vaccinated People Can Stop Wearing Face Masks, Physical Distancing in Most Settings, CDC Says.

My thought is that our science loving friends will still insist on everyone wearing a mask all the time. Kinda goes against science and the CDC.

[Bogie Shooter]

Nope. No enforcement is forthcoming for those unvaccinated wo a mask. Why? Because they know penalty could not be upheld.

They will eventually die off……..

[Topspinmo]

Are we getting some kind of stamp for our foreheads to prove we got vaccinated? :duck:

I’ve got papers that’s says I was vaccinated. I think we need to be tattooed on forehead for all to see :faint:

[Becca9800]

they will eventually die off……..

I sincerely hope ANY human life is more valuable to you than you portray in your response. Are these lives less valuable because they don't think just like you?

[Lindsyburnsy]

My thought is that our science loving friends will still insist on everyone wearing a mask all the time. Kinda goes against science and the CDC.
Science loving? If not for science we wouldn’t be entering data on this forum.

[Bill14564]

I sincerely hope ANY human life is more valuable to you than you portray in your response. Are these lives less valuable because they don't think just like you?

No, not less valuable.

But, it isn't about not thinking like me, it's about belligerently refusing to take measures to protect themselves against a deadly virus.

[Swoop]

No, not less valuable.

But, it isn't about not thinking like me, it's about belligerently refusing to take measures to protect themselves against a deadly virus.
Deadly to whom? The answer is overweight people with compromised immune systems. If you’re not overweight and you don’t have diabetes, hypertension, lung disease or heart disease, it’s NOT a “deadly” virus. The chances of you dying from Covid are infinitesimal - according to the statistics provided by the CDC...

[stanley]

No, not less valuable.

But, it isn't about not thinking like me, it's about belligerently refusing to take measures to protect themselves against a deadly virus.

There's nothing "belligerent" about me not wanting to take the "vaccine". My thoughts about it come calmly and collectively.

[John41]

Fully Vaccinated People Can Stop Wearing Face Masks, Physical Distancing in Most Settings, CDC Says (https://apple.news/ASwQ5vpb9QKO-3eCnLhH5Zg)

Fully Vaccinated People Can Stop Wearing Face Masks, Physical Distancing in Most Settings, CDC Says.

I wonder if the CDC really does any scientific studies to back up their evolving recommendations or just make this advice up as they go along to look like they’re doing something.

[Tmarkwald]

I sincerely hope ANY human life is more valuable to you than you portray in your response. Are these lives less valuable because they don't think just like you?

If someone jumps off a bridge, is it my reponsibility to run and catch them? They made their choice. Against all the science, they are putting themselves in danger.... ml

[stanley]

If someone jumps off a bridge, is it my reponsibility to run and catch them? They made their choice. Against all the science, they are putting themselves in danger.... ml

Jumping off a bridge to commit suicide, if that's what you mean, and opting to not take this "vaccine" is night and day. It's a silly analogy.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'm a "science-loving person" and I'm happy to know that the CDC thinks it's safe enough for me to not need a mask anymore. However, I will still honor any place of business that has a sign indicating that masks are either requested or required, and if I visit someone who prefers that I wear my mask in their house, I'll respect their wishes.

I've gone "unmasked" into a few places already in the past few days and it feels very strange. Almost risque.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I've gone "unmasked" into a few places already in the past few days and it feels very strange. Almost risque.

Exactly, that is how I feel.

[Eg_cruz]

They will eventually die off……..
Wow......really
Sad for you

[coffeebean]

Nope. No enforcement is forthcoming for those unvaccinated wo a mask. Why? Because they know penalty could not be upheld.

Correct. Just this morning on the news the term, "the honor system" was used when reporting about these new guidelines for fully vaccinated people.

[thevillages2013]

They will eventually die off……..

But sheeple will live forever

[Eg_cruz]

No, not less valuable.

But, it isn't about not thinking like me, it's about belligerently refusing to take measures to protect themselves against a deadly virus.
Not true......many of us so call belligerent people have a variety of reasons we choose not to get the shot and frankly I tried of all you who has choose to get the shot feel you have the right to call us names and say rude things about us. This is out of control with the hate.

I read this the other day
“Hate has caused a lot of problems in this world but it hasn’t fix one yet”

Maybe time to stop hating those who have every right not to get the shot and move on.

[Susan1717]

Myself and 70% of my friends have had Covid before vaccinations were readily available and we all were hardly sick but 3-4 days. Worse part was the boredom of quarantine. I’ve known too many people that got extremely sick from being vaccinated too soon after having Covid, even hospitalized and one death. I’m scared to death now to get vaccinated while my antibodies are so high. I’m choosing to get periodic antibodies tests instead. My internist highly recommended this strategy as well. He said definitely I had to wait a minimum of 3 months but possibly 6 months to a year. Everyone has to do what makes them comfortable. If I were overweight or had underlying conditions,, I may look at it differently.

[Tmarkwald]

Not true......many of us so call belligerent people have a variety of reasons we choose not to get the shot and frankly I tried of all you who has choose to get the shot feel you have the right to call us names and say rude things about us. This is out of control with the hate.

I read this the other day
“Hate has caused a lot of problems in this world but it hasn’t fix one yet”

Maybe time to stop hating those who have every right not to get the shot and move on.

Nobody is hating anybody that I know of.

Now, when I go on a vacation and all of a sudden there is an outbreak that ruins my vacation because people didn't get the vaccine, that's when the whole attitude will change.

You have a right to do as you wish - just stay isolated so you don't catch it, get sick,
spread it, and ruin the rest of our experiences as the world opens up for us.

Think of Monty Python "Bring out your Dead' .. stay inside until it's your turn...

[stanley]

You have a right to do as you wish - just stay isolated so you don't catch it, get sick,
spread it, and ruin the rest of our experiences as the world opens up for us.
.

No.

[Tmarkwald]

Myself and 70% of my friends have had Covid before vaccinations were readily available and we all were hardly sick but 3-4 days. Worse part was the boredom of quarantine. I’ve known too many people that got extremely sick from being vaccinated too soon after having Covid, even hospitalized and one death. I’m scared to death now to get vaccinated while my antibodies are so high. I’m choosing to get periodic antibodies tests instead. My internist highly recommended this strategy as well. He said definitely I had to wait a minimum of 3 months but possibly 6 months to a year. Everyone has to do what makes them comfortable. If I were overweight or had underlying conditions,, I may look at it differently.

All of us had Covid and are vaccinated now as well. My antibodies were gone by 6 months. However, there are no recorded fatalities from getting the vaccine after having Covid.

In response to waiting, yes, studies seem to suggest that when you antibodies are strong, you can get sick after getting vaccine. Not sick with Covid, of course, but just the general aches and pains of a vaccine.

The ZOE COVID Symptom Study found that people who’d had COVID previously were nearly twice as likely to experience mild reactions to the Pfizer vaccine, compared to people who’d never tested positive for COVID.

However ... everybody should still get the shot, because catching the infection a second time will likely be worse than any temporary side effects of the vaccine.

So, it is a personal choice, and if you have no intent on travelling anywhere, waiitng a month or two wouldn't hurt..

Can You Get The Vaccine After Having COVID? Doctors Explain (https://www.bustle.com/wellness/get-covid-19-vaccine-after-being-sick-doctors)

[Tmarkwald]

Jumping off a bridge to commit suicide, if that's what you mean, and opting to not take this "vaccine" is night and day. It's a silly analogy.

Should have said 'Russian Roulette' I guess.

The analogy still stands. Are you you going to protect someone from themselves?

[Tmarkwald]

You have a right to do as you wish - just stay isolated so you don't catch it, get sick,
spread it, and ruin the rest of our experiences as the world opens up for us.

No.

So, you are like someone who,. knowing they have AIDS or some other virus, knowingly goes out and puts the rest of the community at risk.

That's beyond selfish.

That's criminal. That is a comment from the diseased mind of a despicable, self centered, human being.

Disgusting

[stanley]

So, you are like someone who,. knowing they have AIDS or some other virus, knowingly goes out and puts the rest of the community at risk.

That's beyond selfish.

That's criminal. That is a comment from the diseased mind of a despicable, self centered, human being.

Disgusting

I'm fine thank you.
You sure come up with some BS analogies, and suppositions.

And the hate starts.......................

[Tmarkwald]

I'm fine thank you.
You sure come up with some BS analogies, and suppositions.

Reality bites sometimes.

[stanley]

Reality bites sometimes.

Yes it does

:1rotfl::1rotfl:

[UpNorth]

mRNA vaccines are a new method and have been "approved" for emergency use since December. Nobody knows what the long term effects may be, but the companies making them got immunity from lawsuits from the federal government. That should tell you a lot.

[Swoop]

Should have said 'Russian Roulette' I guess.

The analogy still stands. Are you you going to protect someone from themselves?
Who is the one playing Russian Roulette? I know what my odds of dying from Covid are. Neither you, nor anyone else, knows what the odds are of having long term side effects from the mRNA vaccines... You are part of the largest human trial in history...

[Bill14564]

mRNA vaccines are a new method and have been "approved" for emergency use since December. Nobody knows what the long term effects may be, but the companies making them got immunity from lawsuits from the federal government. That should tell you a lot.

I'm willing to bet that what you read into that is completely different than what I read into it.

[Tmarkwald]

mRNA vaccines are a new method and have been "approved" for emergency use since December. Nobody knows what the long term effects may be, but the companies making them got immunity from lawsuits from the federal government. That should tell you a lot.

Pfizer seeks full FDA approval of COVID-19 vaccine (https://www.wdsu.com/article/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-of-covid-19-vaccine/36362104#)

Moderna set to go for full FDA approval (https://news.yahoo.com/moderna-set-full-fda-approval-110059035.html)

[Tmarkwald]

Who is the one playing Russian Roulette? I know what my odds of dying from Covid are. Neither you, nor anyone else, knows what the odds are of having long term side effects from the mRNA vaccines... You are part of the largest human trial in history...

keep drinking the kool-aid

[stanley]

keep drinking the kool-aid

:ohdear::ohdear:

[Tom2172]

I always believe the political science!
Always believe what you see hear or read -
Because lawyers politicians & news would never propagandize information for personnel gains

[jbrown132]

Are we getting some kind of stamp for our foreheads to prove we got vaccinated? :duck:

No, it will be a syringe tattooed on your forehead.

[Tcole]

I'm fine thank you.
You sure come up with some BS analogies, and suppositions.

And the hate starts.......................

Most agree, the tremendous hate started about 4 & a half years ago by some bad hombres.

[Dbraisted]

I wonder what percentage of the American population fits into the at risk category....I’d guess it’s a high number!

[jbrown132]

Deadly to whom? The answer is overweight people with compromised immune systems. If you’re not overweight and you don’t have diabetes, hypertension, lung disease or heart disease, it’s NOT a “deadly” virus. The chances of you dying from Covid are infinitesimal - according to the statistics provided by the CDC...

I hate to jump in hear but my son had a 42 year old friend who was perfectly healthy person who died from COVID. So your comment is not totally factual.

[Tmarkwald]

Most agree, the tremendous hate started about 4 & a half years ago by some bad hombres.

yep, had to deal with sore losers for a long time...

[lkagele]

I wonder if the CDC really does any scientific studies to back up their evolving recommendations or just make this advice up as they go along to look like they’re doing something.

It's more sinister than that. Manipulation and control is needed to turn 15 minutes of fame into a year and a half.

[Boffin]

People do what they will and good on all of them. Make whatever choice you want, pay your nickel, and take your chance. Whether anyone is vaccinated/inoculated or not makes no difference to me.

[Bay Kid]

Our VA govern won't give the stronghold they have over their people.

[Swoop]

I hate to jump in hear but my son had a 42 year old friend who was perfectly healthy person who died from COVID. So your comment is not totally factual.
With more than 328 million people living in the US, there will always be an example of someone who has an atypical reaction to something. Based on the statistics provided by the CDC. Your son’s friend was truly an anomaly. I never said that it was impossible, just very highly improbable...

[npwalters]

3 days ago the CDC said that we must see a rate of 10,000 cases per day to reach a point at which we can remove masks. Yesterday they said we can remove our masks indoors and out.

The rate is currently 30,000 (rolling average) per day. I wonder which politician changed their mind?

BTW - I am glad they finally made this recommendation. I haven't worn a mask outdoors for months. I just am amazed at how the "science" can change overnight and I usually look at the current political climate to determine the cause.

[kendi]

I wonder if the CDC really does any scientific studies to back up their evolving recommendations or just make this advice up as they go along to look like they’re doing something.

And if they do the studies, are they done properly? Many are not.

[birdawg]

And you have every right to do what you think is best for you. And I’m sure you would not expect me to have to wear a mask if I fell safe after being vaccinated.

[rlcooper70]

Well .... if we are vaccinated there is a 0.03% chance we can still catch it and get symptoms (israeli study of vaccinated people). That's infinitesimal. If a non-vaccinated person gets the virus and gets really sick from it then that's their choice at this point. So I think this is very good news across the board.

[Tmarkwald]

Well .... if we are vaccinated there is a 0.03% chance we can still catch it and get symptoms (israeli study of vaccinated people). That's infinitesimal. If a non-vaccinated person gets the virus and gets really sick from it then that's their choice at this point. So I think this is very good news across the board.

Yep, and the chance of a fatality is so small that you'd have a better chance of winning the Powerball, being struck by lightning and getting a hole in one all on the same day.

[jbrown132]

Most agree, the tremendous hate started about 4 & a half years ago by some bad hombres.

Lets try 8 years ago.

[Tmarkwald]

Lets try 8 years ago.

yeah, they were getting pretty good at spreading it by that time...they'd had some practice already

[graciegirl]

Fully Vaccinated People Can Stop Wearing Face Masks, Physical Distancing in Most Settings, CDC Says (https://apple.news/ASwQ5vpb9QKO-3eCnLhH5Zg)

Fully Vaccinated People Can Stop Wearing Face Masks, Physical Distancing in Most Settings, CDC Says.

Thank you for telling us that. Your title was a tiny bit condescending and most of us did get this information.

Our family is fully vaccinated. All of us; those in Ohio, New York and U.K. I am so relieved about that.

I think the old saying is true; "You can learn to hang if you hang long enough". lol....I had adapted, but I must say it is good to know that the CDC feels it is o.k. not to wear our masks.

I will still find a slight tug of guilt going bare faced. I am sure the non-vaxxers and others will find something to type that will push up my blood pressure. I am tired of people assuming that the predominant type of voter in The Villages is anti-science, anti-vaccine. There is all kinds of mis-information out there.

I am glad to have some reason to be hopeful that the worst of this has passed. Our family lost two friends in Ohio and one of our neighbors to Covid-19.

I hope that this is the beginning of the end of the worst part of the pandemic here in The U.S. We stand ready to get the boosters and wish all reading this good health.

[Tmarkwald]

Thank you for telling us that. Your title was a tiny bit condescending and most of us did get this information.

Our family is fully vaccinated. All of us; those in Ohio, New York and U.K. I am so relieved about that.

I think the old saying is true; "You can learn to hang if you hang long enough". lol....I had adapted, but I must say it is good to know that the CDC feels it is o.k. not to wear our masks.

I will still find a slight tug of guilt going bare faced. I am sure the non-vaxxers and others will find something to type that will push up my blood pressure. I am tired of people assuming that the predominant type of voter in The Villages is anti-science, anti-vaccine. There is all kinds of mis-information out there.

I am glad to have some reason to be hopeful that the worst of this has passed. Our family lost two friends in Ohio and one of our neighbors to Covid-19.

I hope that this is the beginning of the end of the worst part of the pandemic here in The U.S. We stand ready to get the boosters and wish all reading this good health.

As the report says " For somebody who's already been fully vaccinated, they can wear the mask out of solidarity or in a symbolic sense, but their wearing a mask is not benefiting anyone "

[Two Bills]

yeah, they were getting pretty good at spreading it by that time...they'd had some practice already

Those theys. :ohdear:
They blame them for everything!

[Phpb2]

In the same breath they say, “Masks are no substitute for social distancing!”
Yet, planes are crammed shoulder to shoulder!
It’s not difficult to find the enemies among us!

[Lindsyburnsy]

I'm taking a wild guess here, but I'll bet your parents had you take the polio vaccine.....and you can thank them and the scientists for that. But then vaccines weren't irrationally political.

[Joe C.]

We really shouldn't care about who did or didn't get the vaccine. If you did, and feel that it was worthwhile for yourself and others, then congratulations. You did what you thought best. If you didn't get vaccinated and are comfortable with it, and don't believe that you are at risk, then congratulations to you also. You acted according to your conscience, and did what you think best.
That should be the end of the story.
BUT.....
Listening to the CDC (medical field), they tell you only what information is allowed to be released by the "authorities" who have ulterior motives ,,,(political or financial or social) and want to further their agendas. And the media has a great stake in all this. Get the public's attention by exciting them or scaring them, and keep at it so that it becomes their main focus, and make them ignore what's really happening.

We shouldn't be arguing amongst ourselves about masks or vaccinations.
WE SHOULD BE DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT HOW WE ARE BEING MANIPULATED.
And that's the end of the story.

[stanley]

We shouldn't be arguing amongst ourselves about masks or vaccinations.
WE SHOULD BE DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT HOW WE ARE BEING MANIPULATED.
And that's the end of the story.

Wish I could like this more than once.

[graciegirl]

The Pandemic scared the hell out of most of us.

In India, people are dying in droves. They don't have a CDC.

[Hifred]

Those who are not vaccinated are supposed to wear masks. I was at an activity in one of the rec centers when a person who was not wearing a mask said to the group, "I need to have more patience with people telling me I need to get vaccinated." Then she went on about not believing in vaccinations. All non vaccinated people need to wear a mask. This is why. No vaccine is 100% including the measles vaccine. There are different Covid vaccines and the best is 95% effective. That means theoretically 5 out of 100 people if exposed will still have a breakthrough infection. What protects those 5 is that the people around them if vaccinated are not spreading the illness. For example there was a measles outbreak in the U.S. between 1989 - early 1991 due to a rise in anti vaccination sentiment. There were 27,000 cases of measles in the U.S. in the year 1990 alone with approximately 123 preschoolers dying. If someone doesn't want to take the vaccine then they need to be aware they can carry and spread the virus even if they are not experiencing symptoms. Hence, the reason they need to wear a mask.

[Boffin]

Manipulation by a microbe.

[tuccillo]

No, that is not correct. The "95%" number from the vaccine trials is the efficacy and actually represents the reduction in the probability of developing COVID if you are vaccinated and exposed to the virus when compared to someone who was not vaccinated. The "95%" number means your probability of developing COVID if exposed is reduced by 20x if you were vaccinated when compared to someone who is not vaccinated. The efficacy is essentially the ratio of the number of positives cases among the test group and the number of positive cases among the control group. During the Pfizer trial, the breakthrough percentage of the test group was about 0.02%. The recent CDC reported breakthrough numbers are about 0.008% for the fully vaccinated.

Those who are not vaccinated are supposed to wear masks. I was at an activity in one of the rec centers when a person who was not wearing a mask said to the group, "I need to have more patience with people telling me I need to get vaccinated." Then she went on about not believing in vaccinations. All non vaccinated people need to wear a mask. This is why. No vaccine is 100% including the measles vaccine. There are different Covid vaccines and the best is 95% effective. That means theoretically 5 out of 100 people if exposed will still have a breakthrough infection. What protects those 5 is that the people around them if vaccinated are not spreading the illness. For example there was a measles outbreak in the U.S. between 1989 - early 1991 due to a rise in anti vaccination sentiment. There were 27,000 cases of measles in the U.S. in the year 1990 alone with approximately 123 preschoolers dying. If someone doesn't want to take the vaccine then they need to be aware they can carry and spread the virus even if they are not experiencing symptoms. Hence, the reason they need to wear a mask.

[Ben Franklin]

No, not less valuable.

But, it isn't about not thinking like me, it's about belligerently refusing to take measures to protect themselves against a deadly virus.

Here's something to ponder. If someone has HIV do they need to tell any sex partner that they are infected? I'm sure if someone infected another person with HIV, and they weren't told about it, they'd end up suing the person who infected them. I never understand the aversion to mask wearing during a health crisis, except that people didn't care who they might have infected..

I have been fully vaccinated. It was great to take off the mask. I only wore it to go inside a store. I stand a good chance of not being infected by someone who isn't vaccinated. They're the ones who are more likely to contract COVID.

[Tmarkwald]

If someone has HIV do they need to tell any sex partner that they are infected?

There have been a few lawsuits over this for sure..

And, it is a criminal offense as well!

HIV and STD Criminalization Laws | Law | Policy and Law | HIV/AIDS | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/policies/law/states/exposure.html)

[Boffin]

I think one problem from the very beginning of the pandemic is that most people have little to no understanding of what the use of the word “novel” means and, therefore, have little to no idea of how much is unknown.

[MDLNB]

For crying out loud! Feel "weird" about not wearing a mask now? Feel the need for all those vaccinated to wear proof in public? Scared to go around folks that are not vaccinated? Give me a break.
I felt weird every time I had to put on a mask in order to go into a store. When I observed those that did not wear a mask, I didn't give it a second thought, because the chances of them being infected was nil and then to infect me was even less. Besides, the Surgeon General (if anyone believes a politician) said you cannot become infected by someone unless you are in a conversation with an infected person for about 15 mins or so. In a store, do you stand next to someone for 15 mins and have a conversation with them?
If you folks are still scared then stay the H*** home and let everyone else live their lives without your panic and hysteria. Go hide in your safe rooms. Did you REALLY need the CDC to tell you that it is safe to take off your mask? Do you really have that little confidence in your own common sense?
Some of us have been living a normal life for the past year and a half and have survived. Most of us. I never had any reason to believe that I would become infected. I didn't, or if I did then I had COVID and didn't have symptoms. Either way, so what? Everyone knows someone that had COVID, or said they did. This has NOTHING to do with HIV, period. Some of you are really reaching when it comes to justification for your decision to get vaccinated. You got yours, so what? I got mine, but I dont' care if anyone else gets it or not. That is a personal decision that has NOTHING to do with me. If you get a vaccination and then don't believe it will protect you, you are pretty stupid to insist others get it too. I don't get the flu vaccination. So what? I have never had the flu. If I get it, will I sit there and say "see, I should have listened to everyone else that lives in mortal fear." No. I'll get the flu and survive it or not. Everyone dies eventually. No one gets out of here alive.
Can you believe that they are offering folks rewards for getting vaccinated? Pay someone to get a shot? Give me a break. Either they want one or they don't. Either way, life goes on and some will live and some will die. Getting a vaccination does not cure stupid and some will die of stupid reasons like car accidents, bike accidents, golf ball in the head accident, stepping out into traffic, falling off a ladder, over eating, etc.
Yes, the CDC has given the sheep permission or it's blessing for removing their masks. Why? Because the gov realized that they were on the verge of a mask revolution. Why? Because there are doctors out there that can legitimately argue against the mask mandate and if enough VOTERS listen to opposing views then it is bad for our rulers.
Feel weird about taking your mask off? Wow! Now I have heard it all. The sky really isn't falling......except in Israel.

[Ben Franklin]

There have been a few lawsuits over this for sure..

And, it is a criminal offense as well!

HIV and STD Criminalization Laws | Law | Policy and Law | HIV/AIDS | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/policies/law/states/exposure.html)

I believe there were a few lawsuits. My point was, however, that we have two deadly viruses. If one believes it is wrong for someone with HIV to not tell their partner, I can't understand why they wouldn't feel the same about COVID. I wasn't talking about it being legal or illegal, just common decency.

[jimjamuser]

I sincerely hope ANY human life is more valuable to you than you portray in your response. Are these lives less valuable because they don't think just like you?
It may have been less than subtle. But, it could be a SUGGESTION for every unvaccinated person to re-think their strategy. Some vaccine-hesitant people were WAITING for some kind of vaccine apocalypse to happen - which has NOT happened and, by today, more wait time is probably NOT needed. There seems to be an uptick in vaccinations recently - some "hesitant" people may have decided to get their shot. Availability is not a problem anymore. Recently, a religious leader recommended getting the vaccine. That should help society.

[jimjamuser]

If someone jumps off a bridge, is it my reponsibility to run and catch them? They made their choice. Against all the science, they are putting themselves in danger.... ml
Society has THAT responsibility. EMTs and social workers have talked people down from THAT ledge. And some have gone on to have successful lives.

[jimjamuser]

Jumping off a bridge to commit suicide, if that's what you mean, and opting to not take this "vaccine" is night and day. It's a silly analogy.
Not a perfect analogy, but it has some value.

[jimjamuser]

Not true......many of us so call belligerent people have a variety of reasons we choose not to get the shot and frankly I tried of all you who has choose to get the shot feel you have the right to call us names and say rude things about us. This is out of control with the hate.

I read this the other day
“Hate has caused a lot of problems in this world but it hasn’t fix one yet”

Maybe time to stop hating those who have every right not to get the shot and move on.
It's NOT so much about hate as it is the uncertainty that the CV might "spike" back. That new variants could mutate into problems. That close-to-zero CV could elude us when we were so close and so much work was done. That it is NOT "over until it's over". Personally, I am NOT yet ready to celebrate - "to party like it's 1999"!

[jimjamuser]

No.
So eloquent and so poetic!

[jimjamuser]

mRNA vaccines are a new method and have been "approved" for emergency use since December. Nobody knows what the long term effects may be, but the companies making them got immunity from lawsuits from the federal government. That should tell you a lot.
It tells me that some people are looking (stretching) to find reasons to NOT take a proven vaccine. A justification can be found for ANY action.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Correct. Just this morning on the news the term, "the honor system" was used when reporting about these new guidelines for fully vaccinated people.

Yeah because everyone is honorable and can be trusted to tell the truth, and report things when they're asked to...

:1rotfl::1rotfl:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Not true......many of us so call belligerent people have a variety of reasons we choose not to get the shot and frankly I tried of all you who has choose to get the shot feel you have the right to call us names and say rude things about us. This is out of control with the hate.

I read this the other day
“Hate has caused a lot of problems in this world but it hasn’t fix one yet”

Maybe time to stop hating those who have every right not to get the shot and move on.

It is entirely possible to think someone is a blithering idiot, and not hate them.

Just sayin...

[Tmarkwald]

It tells me that some people are looking (stretching) to find reasons to NOT take a proven vaccine. A justification can be found for ANY action.

And they always will justify it.... we both know that.

[Spalumbos62]

Jumping off a bridge to commit suicide, if that's what you mean, and opting to not take this "vaccine" is night and day. It's a silly analogy.

Your responses never make sense....the opposite of belligerent is not calm and collect...so no idea where you were going. And now the saying "jumping off a bridge" is an old saying meaning doing something silly...not planning suicide. Js

[Spalumbos62]

Wow......really
Sad for you


Ummm.....what do you think will happen to nonvaccers?? Just wondering

[Spalumbos62]

Who is the one playing Russian Roulette? I know what my odds of dying from Covid are. Neither you, nor anyone else, knows what the odds are of having long term side effects from the mRNA vaccines... You are part of the largest human trial in history...


Oh...for the love of god!

[stanley]

Your responses never make sense....the opposite of belligerent is not calm and collect...so no idea where you were going. And now the saying "jumping off a bridge" is an old saying meaning doing something silly...not planning suicide. Js

Did you even read the threads I was repling to?

Do you work for the MSM and not tell the whole story?

[Aloha1]

I sincerely hope ANY human life is more valuable to you than you portray in your response. Are these lives less valuable because they don't think just like you?

Science loving? If not for science we wouldn’t be entering data on this forum.

Oh, get over yourselves. At this stage the SCIENCE says get the shots and you're good to go. ANYONE can get a Covid shot. I do not have an obligation to defer to "stupid". You have the right to stay locked down and wear your mask while driving alone in your car but stop with the virtue signaling. The science is clear. You don't want to get a shot, welcome to Darwin in action.

[Spalumbos62]

Ummm.....what do you think will happen to nonvaccers?? Just wondering


Oh, I get it...I know all those nonvaxxers will not live, they are signing their own certificate...it truly is a short time until this happens.
I guess I was reading it wrong....oh well, it's nice to have the vac and peace of mind.

[Aloha1]

The Pandemic scared the hell out of most of us.

In India, people are dying in droves. They don't have a CDC.

India is gong thru what we already went through last winter. They are way behind the curve in vaccinations and yet their case load per 100k is less than the US. Send them all the help they need but realize the media has, once again. blown this way out of proportion.

[Spalumbos62]

Oh, get over yourselves. At this stage the SCIENCE says get the shots and you're good to go. ANYONE can get a Covid shot. I do not have an obligation to defer to "stupid". You have the right to stay locked down and wear your mask while driving alone in your car but stop with the virtue signaling. The science is clear. You don't want to get a shot, welcome to Darwin in action.


I have a dear friend that hates the thought if the vaccine, believes it's a hoax, that in time she'll be made to get it. She's in a major panic...scared over tracers in vaccine. Shes panicked.....she died.....47 of a massive heart attack.........

[jimjamuser]

Who is the one playing Russian Roulette? I know what my odds of dying from Covid are. Neither you, nor anyone else, knows what the odds are of having long term side effects from the mRNA vaccines... You are part of the largest human trial in history...
And the Flat Earth Society has recruited more members!

[coffeebean]

I'm a "science-loving person" and I'm happy to know that the CDC thinks it's safe enough for me to not need a mask anymore. However, I will still honor any place of business that has a sign indicating that masks are either requested or required, and if I visit someone who prefers that I wear my mask in their house, I'll respect their wishes.

I've gone "unmasked" into a few places already in the past few days and it feels very strange. Almost risque.

Going maskless does not feel strange at all to me. It feels LIBERATING and absolutely wonderful. I still keep my distance and probably will still do that for a long time. I will not be hanging out in crowds any time soon, that's for sure.

[Bucco]

Did you even read the threads I was repling to?

Do you work for the MSM and not tell the whole story?

Example of this please MAINSTREAM media not telling the whole story

Thanks

[Swoop]

And the Flat Earth Society has recruited more members!

Please share the visions you see in your crystal ball with the rest of mankind. Since you seem to be the only one who thinks he knows what the long term outcome will be for those who received the vaccine. Because there is absolutely no statistical science for you to reference...

[coffeebean]

3 days ago the CDC said that we must see a rate of 10,000 cases per day to reach a point at which we can remove masks. Yesterday they said we can remove our masks indoors and out.

The rate is currently 30,000 (rolling average) per day. I wonder which politician changed their mind?

BTW - I am glad they finally made this recommendation. I haven't worn a mask outdoors for months. I just am amazed at how the "science" can change overnight and I usually look at the current political climate to determine the cause.
Not quite "over night". It took a few million vaccinations to arrive at these CDC guidelines. Science evolves on an on going basis. The immunity our country is developing is guiding the guidance.

[Becca9800]

Oh, get over yourselves. At this stage the SCIENCE says get the shots and you're good to go. ANYONE can get a Covid shot. I do not have an obligation to defer to "stupid". You have the right to stay locked down and wear your mask while driving alone in your car but stop with the virtue signaling. The science is clear. You don't want to get a shot, welcome to Darwin in action.

YOUR science says get the shot. MY science says tread carefully. This vaccine was rushed to production, has not been fully vetted, is experimental, and we just don't know the long term effects. The science is NOT clear at all, the recommendations changed day to day because they just don't know what they don't know. Those are indisputable facts that maybe you can justify, I cannot.

I haven't been locked down ever. In fact, every day I went to work at a hospital where at one point there were 70 Covid-infected patients under the same roof as me. An infested hospital where I had direct interaction w the people providing direct care to the infected. Nor will I go into lock down now. I'm pretty sure the ones you see wearing masks while driving alone in their car are those ultra paranoid of contracting C19. They were the first in line to receive a vaccine. Those holding off on getting a vaccine just aren't that paranoid as evidenced by the fact they weren't first in line to receive the vaccine.

Virtue Signaling: the sharing of one's point of view on a social or political issue, often on social media, in order to garner praise or acknowledgment of one’s righteousness from others who share that point of view, or to passively rebuke those who do not.

I will conclude my response to your condescending, critical, fundamentally wrong, and worthless response by saying, but I'm the stupid one. I'm certain its intent will be lost.

[golfing eagles]

YOUR science says get the shot. MY science says tread carefully. This vaccine was rushed to production, has not been fully vetted, is experimental, and we just don't know the long term effects. The science is NOT clear at all, the recommendations changed day to day because they just don't know what they don't know. Those are indisputable facts that maybe you can justify, I cannot.

I haven't been locked down ever. In fact, every day I went to work at a hospital where at one point there were 70 Covid-infected patients under the same roof as me. An infested hospital where I had direct interaction w the people providing direct care to the infected. Nor will I go into lock down now. I'm pretty sure the ones you see wearing masks while driving alone in their car are those ultra paranoid of contracting C19. They were the first in line to receive a vaccine. Those holding off on getting a vaccine just aren't that paranoid as evidenced by the fact they weren't first in line to receive the vaccine.

Virtue Signaling: the sharing of one's point of view on a social or political issue, often on social media, in order to garner praise or acknowledgment of one’s righteousness from others who share that point of view, or to passively rebuke those who do not.

I will conclude my response to your condescending, critical, fundamentally wrong, and worthless response by saying, but I'm the stupid one. I'm certain its intent will be lost.

I'm not going to comment on your opinion, but I will only say there is no MY science and YOUR science, just science.

[stanley]

Example of this please MAINSTREAM media not telling the whole story

Thanks

The people that read into everything without going back to see others post's in context. And you just joined that group.

Just like the MSM

[jimjamuser]

With more than 328 million people living in the US, there will always be an example of someone who has an atypical reaction to something. Based on the statistics provided by the CDC. Your son’s friend was truly an anomaly. I never said that it was impossible, just very highly improbable...
The current 500 plus thousand DEAD from CV is probably an undercounting. To NOT be aware of this is like " whistling past the graveyard".

[coffeebean]

.......We shouldn't be arguing amongst ourselves about masks or vaccinations.
WE SHOULD BE DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT HOW WE ARE BEING MANIPULATED.
And that's the end of the story.

We see things differently. I have never felt manipulated. I have felt protected by a government agency that deals with public health.......my health, my husband's health, my family's health, my community's health, my country's health. Yup....we see things differently.

[JMintzer]

https://i.imgur.com/8LHz6Od.png

[coffeebean]

......... Recently, a religious leader recommended getting the vaccine. That should help society.

I wish to hell one very influential person would rally his supporters to go and get vaccinated. While he is at it, he should tell his supporters that he and his wife were vaccinated when they were still in the White House. Those are the folks who need the nudging from what all the polls are revealing.

[jimjamuser]

I'm taking a wild guess here, but I'll bet your parents had you take the polio vaccine.....and you can thank them and the scientists for that. But then vaccines weren't irrationally political.
Good post! Very true and logical!

[coffeebean]

India is gong thru what we already went through last winter. They are way behind the curve in vaccinations and yet their case load per 100k is less than the US. Send them all the help they need but realize the media has, once again. blown this way out of proportion.

Gee, that's not what I heard from the news source I listen to. It has been reported that India is experiencing the highest rates of deaths per capita in the world since the beginning of the pandemic. Anyone else hear this? Did I hear it incorrectly?

[coffeebean]

YOUR science says get the shot. MY science says tread carefully. This vaccine was rushed to production, has not been fully vetted, is experimental, and we just don't know the long term effects. The science is NOT clear at all, the recommendations changed day to day because they just don't know what they don't know. Those are indisputable facts that maybe you can justify, I cannot.

I haven't been locked down ever. In fact, every day I went to work at a hospital where at one point there were 70 Covid-infected patients under the same roof as me. An infested hospital where I had direct interaction w the people providing direct care to the infected. Nor will I go into lock down now. I'm pretty sure the ones you see wearing masks while driving alone in their car are those ultra paranoid of contracting C19. They were the first in line to receive a vaccine. Those holding off on getting a vaccine just aren't that paranoid as evidenced by the fact they weren't first in line to receive the vaccine.

Virtue Signaling: the sharing of one's point of view on a social or political issue, often on social media, in order to garner praise or acknowledgment of one’s righteousness from others who share that point of view, or to passively rebuke those who do not.

I will conclude my response to your condescending, critical, fundamentally wrong, and worthless response by saying, but I'm the stupid one. I'm certain its intent will be lost.

I guess you are not aware that the mRNA vaccines began their infancy of development back in 1990. No, this technology is not new. The "tweeking" of the vaccine for this specific SARS CoV2 virus is what was in development recently, once the scientists had the information they needed from China to do the "tweeking".

Just wondering what you will be saying once these mRNA vaccines receive full FDA approval. That won't be very long. You may have to get another mantra.

I also often wonder what our society would look like today if like minded people such as yourself, refused to receive the small pox vaccine when that pandemic was raging. The small pox vaccine eradicated that deadly disfiguring virus from this earth. It is a very scary thought to think what our society would be like if there were anti-vaxxers, non-vaxxers, hesitant-vaxxers, religious conciencous anti-vaxxers and such around back then. Oh, my. The hair on the back of my neck stands up.

[MDLNB]

We see things differently. I have never felt manipulated. I have felt protected by a government agency that deals with public health.......my health, my husband's health, my family's health, my community's health, my country's health. Yup....we see things differently.


I've never known anyone that KNEW they were being manipulated. I am sure they never "FELT manipulated" when the fact was that they were being manipulated. Just saying. Not saying you are being manipulated. But, a gov that controls is guilty of manipulation of the masses.

[John41]

I wish to hell one very influential person would rally his supporters to go and get vaccinated. While he is at it, he should tell his supporters that he and his wife were vaccinated when they were still in the White House. Those are the folks who need the nudging from what all the polls revealing.

He has repeatedly urged his supporters to get vaccinated. After all it was his administration that gave us two effective vaccines in record time. If your leaders like Cuomo hadn’t planted the seeds of distrust the rollout would have been quicker. But keep blaming the past to take the focus off the growing failures since February.

[unialimon]

I guess you are not aware that the mRNA vaccines began their infancy of development back in 1990. No, this technology is not new. The "tweeking" of the vaccine for this specific SARS CoV2 virus is what was in development recently, once the scientists had the information they needed from China to do the "tweeking".

Just wondering what you will be saying once these mRNA vaccines receive full FDA approval. That won't be very long. You may have to get another mantra.

I also often wonder what our society would look like today if like minded people such as yourself, refused to receive the small pox vaccine when that pandemic was raging. Th e small pox vaccine eradicated that deadly disfiguring virus from this earth. It is a very scary thought to think what our society would be like if there were anti-vaxxers, non-vaxxers, hesitant-vaxxers, religious conciencous anti-vaxxers and such around back then. Oh, my. The hair on the back of my neck stands up.
Quite possibly this forum would not exist then.

[jimjamuser]

Please share the visions you see in your crystal ball with the rest of mankind. Since you seem to be the only one who thinks he knows what the long term outcome will be for those who received the vaccine. Because there is absolutely no statistical science for you to reference...
My crystal ball says that Global Warming will continue to be a big problem. It says that all around the world, and in America, democracies are being hard-pressed to fend off dictatorships. My crystal ball says that the US Government should limit the power of Facebook before it is too late.

As to our 3 CV vaccines - they were rigorously tested before approval. Just like all other vaccines in the US. Dr. Osterholm, Dr. Fauci, Dr. Vin Gupta and many others are very happy with the way these vaccines have been successful in fighting the CV Pandemic.

[coffeebean]

I've never known anyone that KNEW they were being manipulated. I am sure they never "FELT manipulated" when the fact was that they were being manipulated. Just saying. Not saying you are being manipulated. But, a gov that controls is guilty of manipulation of the masses.

That may be true but I still feel totally in control of my actions and decision making processes. Thank you, though.

[Becca9800]

I'm not going to comment on your opinion, but I will only say there is no MY science and YOUR science, just science.

And you'd be wrong. You do realize there are as many scientists warning against the vaccine as there are those promoting the vaccine. Right? Sooooo.... there is a yours and my science, depending on which scientist you tend to lean toward.

[Becca9800]

We see things differently. I have never felt manipulated. I have felt protected by a government agency that deals with public health.......my health, my husband's health, my family's health, my community's health, my country's health. Yup....we see things differently.

I have never felt more manipulated in my life. So I agree, we see things very differently. I accept that. Can you?

[Spalumbos62]

He has repeatedly urged his supporters to get vaccinated. After all it was his administration that gave us two effective vaccines in record time. If your leaders like Cuomo hadn’t planted the seeds of distrust the rollout would have been quicker. But keep blaming the past to take the focus off the growing failures since February.


You are 100% misinformed....

[coffeebean]

I have never felt more manipulated in my life. So I agree, we see things very differently. I accept that. Can you?

Different strokes for different folks I guess. So, yes, I can accept it.

[Becca9800]

Just wondering what you will be saying once these mRNA vaccines receive full FDA approval. That won't be very long. You may have to get another mantra.

I will be delighted once immunity is removed from the vaccine manufacturers and from the FDA. If the vaccine receives full approval, I would expect the vaccine is no different than any other drug on the market. IF it hurts me, I can make a claim for damages. Oh right, there have been no approved drugs that ultimately injured people, right? I am not willing to accept the vaccine's current risk. What do you not understand about risk-benefit? Should I contract C19, I am not likely to suffer serious consequence. IF I take an unknown vaccine, I don't know what might result. Perhaps you should just respect other's positions and leave it at that. Yes?


I also often wonder what our society would look like today if like minded people such as yourself, refused to receive the small pox vaccine when that pandemic was raging. Oh, my. The hair on the back of my neck stands up.

You should really know your subject matter before you opine on it.

In 1796, Edward Jenner in the UK created the first successful smallpox vaccine, but it wasn't until the 1950s that vaccine treatments began to effectively eradicate the disease in some parts of the world.

Then, in 1967, a global effort that provided a higher level of vaccine production and an advancement in needle technology eventually lead to eradication of the disease by 1980.

The smallpox vaccine def didn't arrive in less than a year from inception to conception. If you're game for the c19 vaccine, cool. Stop pushing YOUR needs on me.

[Spalumbos62]

And you'd be wrong. You do realize there are as many scientists warning against the vaccine as there are those promoting the vaccine. Right? Sooooo.... there is a yours and my science, depending on which scientist you tend to lean toward.


No....there's not! Where do you get your information from???

[John41]

My crystal ball says that Global Warming will continue to be a big problem. It says that all around the world, and in America, democracies are being hard-pressed to fend off dictatorships. My crystal ball says that the US Government should limit the power of Facebook before it is too late.

As to our 3 CV vaccines - they were rigorously tested before approval. Just like all other vaccines in the US. Dr. Osterholm, Dr. Fauci, Dr. Vin Gupta and many others are very happy with the way these vaccines have been successful in fighting the CV Pandemic.

I agree

[Bucco]

And you'd be wrong. You do realize there are as many scientists warning against the vaccine as there are those promoting the vaccine. Right? Sooooo.... there is a yours and my science, depending on which scientist you tend to lean toward.

Credible links to substantiate your Wild claim.

Or it is just talk.

[John41]

Not quite "over night". It took a few million vaccinations to arrive at these CDC guidelines. Science evolves on an on going basis. The immunity our country is developing is guiding the guidance.

There’s a difference between SCIENCE evolving and SCIENTISTS waffling according to which way the political wind blows. Sadly you are more wedded to scientists with your political bias than objective science.

[Bucco]

He has repeatedly urged his supporters to get vaccinated. After all it was his administration that gave us two effective vaccines in record time. If your leaders like Cuomo hadn’t planted the seeds of distrust the rollout would have been quicker. But keep blaming the past to take the focus off the growing failures since February.

First, he has never urged anyone to get the vaccine.....

As a matter of fact, when distribution began, there was a PR group who wanted to get all living Presidents to push getting vaccinated.

Want to guess who the only one....the only one who refused.

Yep, it were HIm

When you make a claim about HIM giving us a vaccine, first, Germany may have something to say. Their money and science gave us Pfizer. Moderna had begun work in their vaccine in late December 2009, while we were being told this was just like the annual flu and not to be concerned.

Why do you continue to post knowingly false information on here ?

PS...Moderna did take some money to finish up, but they were well on their way. Pfizer took no money, and only got a purchase order IF

[Bucco]

You live in a bubble if you're not aware of the differing opinions. Willfully? Or ignorantly? Either way, your lack of knowledge is all on you.

So, you are just blowing smoke and have no credible links.

Of course, with any and all things, especially in the age of such media there are always, BUT YOU SAID...

"You do realize there are as many scientists warning against the vaccine as there are those promoting the vaccine. "

I am calling you on that and asking you to make a case. It is false and you know it.

[Becca9800]

Credible links to substantiate your Wild claim.

Or it is just talk.

Credible? Pretty certain you and I will not agree on who is credible so I'll spare my valuable time. But in the end, it is not my job to educate you, you are an adult. Seek the info wo being spoon fed. All you need to do is Duck Duck Go the issue, pretty sure you'll find plenty. I know you will, I just tested it.

[Becca9800]

So, you are just blowing smoke and have no credible links.

Of course, with any and all things, especially in the age of such media there are always, BUT YOU SAID...

"You do realize there are as many scientists warning against the vaccine as there are those promoting the vaccine. "

I am calling you on that and asking you to make a case. It is false and you know it.

See post #120.

[golfing eagles]

89486And you'd be wrong. You do realize there are as many scientists warning against the vaccine as there are those promoting the vaccine. Right? Sooooo.... there is a yours and my science, depending on which scientist you tend to lean toward.

all I can say is:

[cherylncliff]

Without science there would not be the vaccine that now allows us to safely not wear masks under most conditions. If everyone would get vaccinated we could end this thing.

[graciegirl]

Already responded in post 123, but while you are here...

“They’re tying their political allegiance to the political right, unfortunately. And we’re seeing this play out in the bottom ten states in terms of vaccination coverage,” said Dr. Peter Hotez
Polls show that more than 40% of Republicans are not planning to get vaccinated."

Political ideology is real reason people remain unvaccinated, says Dr. Peter Hotez (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/14/political-ideology-is-real-reason-people-remain-unvaccinated-says-dr-peter-hotez.html)

US COVID-19 Vaccine Progress Tracker | Vaccinations by State | USAFacts (https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/)

[Bucco]

US COVID-19 Vaccine Progress Tracker | Vaccinations by State | USAFacts (https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/)

Great link, but still not enough folks been vaccinated

[MDLNB]

Without science there would not be the vaccine that now allows us to safely not wear masks under most conditions. If everyone would get vaccinated we could end this thing.


Not that I disagree, BUT you do know that "everyone" does not get the Flu shot every year and we do not wear masks. As a matter of fact, I can't remember any time in my lifetime where I was required to wear a mask anywhere other than into the operating room. And I have been to and lived in many other countries. The ONLY reason so many folks have been wearing masks in public has been due to our gov insistence.

[golfing eagles]

Not that I disagree, BUT you do know that "everyone" does not get the Flu shot every year and we do not wear masks. As a matter of fact, I can't remember any time in my lifetime where I was required to wear a mask anywhere other than into the operating room. And I have been to and lived in many other countries. The ONLY reason so many folks have been wearing masks in public has been due to our gov insistence.

Reverse isolation rooms, respiratory and contact precaution rooms, the ER when seeing a case of suspected meningococcemia. But yeah, I agree with you in general.

[graciegirl]

Reverse isolation rooms, respiratory and contact precaution rooms, the ER when seeing a case of suspected meningococcemia. But yeah, I agree with you in general.

I bow to your expertise and respect your knowledge.

I think the "rub" has been that this virus was new and we witnessed people dying so much and so fast in China and then Italy at first that our fact people could not make valid assessments. Bodies were lying at the curb!!!

I think it was better to err on the side of safety. I think it will take years to completely assess how it spreads exactly and what it does to our bodies besides kill us.

I followed the rules and found a lot to do at home and became very aware of some of my thoughts during this time. We survived and some of us did it without a lot of angst. I guess it depends if you are a wiggle worm or a sitter.

Glad to be alive and see so many people alive around me.

[golfing eagles]

They sound like Experts on BS to me.

Really????

Have you ever been there?
Do you know any of the physicians who run it?

Don't bother, we all know the answer already.
On the other hand, I can personally vouch for the quality and expertise of 3 of them (although 2 may be retired).

So who's spouting BS now?????
Don't throw mud on people and an organization that you know virtually nothing about.

[Gulfcoast]

Really????

Have you ever been there?
Do you know any of the physicians who run it?

Don't bother, we all know the answer already.
On the other hand, I can personally vouch for the quality and expertise of 3 of them (although 2 may be retired).

So who's spouting BS now?????
Don't throw mud on people and an organization that you know virtually nothing about.

We have all been treated to the CDC's recommendations all year long. We have all had our lives impacted by their rulings. I don't have to know any of those individuals personally to have my own opinion about their advice.

The homemade cloth masks, the random shut downs, school closings, etc.

It's been like watching a mad scientist play with his human guinea pigs. We now have a vaccine - Experiment Over. Time to drop this nonsense and get on with life. Nobody gets a gold star for getting a vaccine. The ones who deserve the praise are the workers who got out there and kept the world running throughout this pandemic. Those are the unsung heroes that we should all be thanking.

[Gulfcoast]

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that when things were at the scariest, it was private corporations keeping this country running while government offices were all shut down. Something to think about.

[Bucco]

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that when things were at the scariest, it was private corporations keeping this country running while government offices were all shut down. Something to think about.

Government shut them down. Corporations, seen as private had options...slow down, etc.

[Bucco]

89486

all I can say is:

Wish you had said it.....such headaches it would have save me

[Gulfcoast]

Government shut them down. Corporations, seen as private had options...slow down, etc.

Publix, Walmart, Target, Amazon and the fast food restaurants were doing a booming business, as were enterprising delivery services. My own kids were getting OT at their jobs. They also got thanked by their companies and wound up getting a nice Covid pay bonus for working during the pandemic.

We sometimes forget how those worker bees kept more vulnerable people safe for most of the year and that was well before a vaccine ever came along. They wore masks, kept their workplaces sanitized, followed Covid protocol and provided much needed services to their communities.

I think it's good to recognize what these workers did for all of us.

[Gulfcoast]

MUCH appreciated,,,,the bash our own government and our own experts is wearing thin, especially when you look at data and facts.

I am glad that I live in the state of Florida. We are blessed.

[WhoDat]

Maybe a number tattooed on everyone's arm. I think that method was used in the past to identify people.

[Tmarkwald]

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that when things were at the scariest, it was private corporations keeping this country running while government offices were all shut down. Something to think about.

Details? What are you referring to?

The federal government never shut down for sure. The only people not working were the janitors. Everyone else shifted to remote work.

[coffeebean]

I will be delighted once immunity is removed from the vaccine manufacturers and from the FDA. If the vaccine receives full approval, I would expect the vaccine is no different than any other drug on the market. IF it hurts me, I can make a claim for damages. Oh right, there have been no approved drugs that ultimately injured people, right? I am not willing to accept the vaccine's current risk. What do you not understand about risk-benefit? Should I contract C19, I am not likely to suffer serious consequence. IF I take an unknown vaccine, I don't know what might result. Perhaps you should just respect other's positions and leave it at that. Yes?




You should really know your subject matter before you opine on it.

In 1796, Edward Jenner in the UK created the first successful smallpox vaccine, but it wasn't until the 1950s that vaccine treatments began to effectively eradicate the disease in some parts of the world.

Then, in 1967, a global effort that provided a higher level of vaccine production and an advancement in needle technology eventually lead to eradication of the disease by 1980.

The smallpox vaccine def didn't arrive in less than a year from inception to conception. If you're game for the c19 vaccine, cool. Stop pushing YOUR needs on me.
The mRNA vaccines did not arrive in less than a year either. The infancy of these vaccines was in 1990s.

The story of mRNA: From a loose idea to a tool that may help curb Covid (https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/)

It was not until China released the sequence of this novel corona virus were the scientists able to "tweek" what was already in the works for these mRNA vaccines. It was from that valuable information that these life saving vaccines were developed. The ground work was already done which has been in the process for many years.

Here is an article about the scientist who laid the ground work for mRNA vaccines.......
Kati Kariko Helped Shield the World From the Coronavirus - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/health/coronavirus-mrna-kariko.html)

[coffeebean]

first, he has never urged anyone to get the vaccine.....

As a matter of fact, when distribution began, there was a pr group who wanted to get all living presidents to push getting vaccinated.

Want to guess who the only one....the only one who refused.

Yep, it were him

when you make a claim about him giving us a vaccine, first, germany may have something to say. Their money and science gave us pfizer. Moderna had begun work in their vaccine in late december 2009, while we were being told this was just like the annual flu and not to be concerned.

Why do you continue to post knowingly false information on here ?

Ps...moderna did take some money to finish up, but they were well on their way. Pfizer took no money, and only got a purchase order if

preach!!! He and his wife were vaccinated IN SECRET at the White House before he left office. He had no intention of promoting the vaccine to his supporters by being secretive of their vaccinations. No cameras, no video captured the moment he and his wife were vaccinated. No attempt at sending a message of support of these vaccines. No attempt from him at setting an example to the American people, especially his supporters. Who does this?

[coffeebean]

Credible? Pretty certain you and I will not agree on who is credible so I'll spare my valuable time. But in the end, it is not my job to educate you, you are an adult. Seek the info wo being spoon fed. All you need to do is Duck Duck Go the issue, pretty sure you'll find plenty. I know you will, I just tested it.

You want credible? Use the BBC for unbiased reporting. They have no dog in the race and are very credible as a news source.

[coffeebean]

As do us against the "vaccine"..........so leave us alone thank you

I see you have the word vaccine in quotes. That just made me think of one poster who insists these vaccines are not really vaccines. Wonder what happened to OneClick Plus. Is that poster still around?

[Tmarkwald]

I see you have the word vaccine in quotes. That just made me think of one poster who insists these vaccines are not really vaccines. Wonder what happened to OneClick Plus. Is that poster still around?

Maybe Darwin got them. Eventually they'll all get weeded out....

[Tmarkwald]

This is what saved our country when certain elements called our initial response in Feb 2020 to Cobid as 'over-reacting'.

Preparation..intelligence..foresight

Operation Warp Speed (OWS) was a public–private partnership initiated by the United States government to facilitate and accelerate the development, manufacturing, and distribution of COVID-19 vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics.

The first news report of Operation Warp Speed was on April 29, 2020, and the program was officially announced on May 15, 2020. This resulted in the US starting vaccinating in November 2020.

The 12.4 billion spent included massive pre-purchase of Pfizer vaccines and others.


Source: Wikipedia and a lot of others

[UpNorth]

Maybe Darwin got them. Eventually they'll all get weeded out....

Or perhaps, those who got vaccinated will suffer the consequences a year or two from now.

[graciegirl]

Or perhaps, those who got vaccinated will suffer the consequences a year or two from now.

Somewhere, there is a site that is talking about this possibility but I have not yet run into it. I try very hard to check my sources, and although I do not agree very often with the editorial stance of some of them, I KNOW they are dependable on facts and do not publish theories as facts.

It is a possibility of course that there may be an unexpected consequence, but I chose to not die right now, and hope that again, science will find a stop to any "consequences that could happen a year or two from now".

This whole issue has shown us what politics can sway, and how when people are frightened, they often show it in anger and seek answers from undependable sources and those without valid and dependable information. Some big news broadcasting companies made TERRIBLE errors and chose lightweight medical people to tell us what to think in the early days of this.

The CDC, Dr. Fauci and his group, the NIH and other government agencies who we have always trusted for precise answers were standing and watching and assimilating a rapidly changing situation with no way to know the absolute answers. I still trust them. I do not believe that someone bought them. I do not think that the University of Wuhan was engaged in subversive activities for their government, because for one, it makes no sense to release a scourge that will kill your own family members and people in your very own country...to sway an American election????

I hope that no harm will come to us for getting the shot but I am card carrying "R" and I stand with science and I watched 70% of this country...(on polls) that trusted Dr. Fauci. And I know why the last election was lost.

[CFrance]

I'm a "science-loving person" and I'm happy to know that the CDC thinks it's safe enough for me to not need a mask anymore. However, I will still honor any place of business that has a sign indicating that masks are either requested or required, and if I visit someone who prefers that I wear my mask in their house, I'll respect their wishes.

I've gone "unmasked" into a few places already in the past few days and it feels very strange. Almost risque.
I was in Publix yesterday. There was a sign that said masks required unless you are vaccinated. I put my mask on (out of habit), took it off, felt very vulnerable among the maskless (who knows if they're vaccinated or just refusing to wear a mask) and put it back on. What about the seven NY Yankees staff that contracted Covid after their vaccinations?


It's going to take a while for me to feel comfortable not wearing a mask in a busy store. And partly because I feel this latest directive came from a governors' meeting at which many urged the prez to do away with masks for the vaccinated. I believe it was the Utah governor who said We're a vaccinated country; let's act like one.


Makes me wonder if there was any science behind it, or the CDC just caved. I'll feel better about it in a month or two if the infection rate continues to drop.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Not that I disagree, BUT you do know that "everyone" does not get the Flu shot every year and we do not wear masks. As a matter of fact, I can't remember any time in my lifetime where I was required to wear a mask anywhere other than into the operating room. And I have been to and lived in many other countries. The ONLY reason so many folks have been wearing masks in public has been due to our gov insistence.

When I've had to wear a mask:
I worked in a chemical plant. I had to wear a mask, gloves, a gown, and non-slip steel-toed shoes with sterile booties over them.

I worked for a sausage factory. I had to wear a mask and gloves whenever I went onto the factory floor to ask the supervisor about an employee's time card.

I visited a friend after a difficult labor resulting in an emergency c-section. I had to wear a mask to visit her, and her baby, who was in NICU.

Sometimes when living up north, I had to spread fertilizer mixed with diatomaceous earth on the property. While the clay (earth) isn't poisonous, it's fine particles of clay that can stick to your lungs and cause respiratory distress if you inhale too much of it. So I wore a mask. I wear a mask now when I spread it outside the house along the edge of the driveway, when we get ant-hills.

In the winter up north, I didn't wear something so flimsy as a mask. I wore a hijab. That's right. An extra-long pashmina wool scarf, covering my head, then wrapped around the back of my head, wrapped to the front to cover my entire face from the nose down and tucked into my jacket to cover the front of my neck. I'm not a Muslim. But they have the right idea about dressing for winter, that's for damned sure. The only part of my head or neck that was NOT covered with that thing was my eyes. And I wore glasses so THOSE were covered as well.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I was in Publix yesterday. There was a sign that said masks required unless you are vaccinated. I put my mask on (out of habit), took it off, felt very vulnerable among the maskless (who knows if they're vaccinated or just refusing to wear a mask) and put it back on. What about the seven NY Yankees staff that contracted Covid after their vaccinations?


It's going to take a while for me to feel comfortable not wearing a mask in a busy store. And partly because I feel this latest directive came from a governors' meeting at which many urged the prez to do away with masks for the vaccinated. I believe it was the Utah governor who said We're a vaccinated country; let's act like one.


Makes me wonder if there was any science behind it, or the CDC just caved. I'll feel better about it in a month or two if the infection rate continues to drop.

This is definitely not a "vaccinated country." There are pockets of the country where a majority of people are vaccinated. But for the most part, the vaccinated are less than 50% overall.

[Byte1]

When I've had to wear a mask:
I worked in a chemical plant. I had to wear a mask, gloves, a gown, and non-slip steel-toed shoes with sterile booties over them.

I worked for a sausage factory. I had to wear a mask and gloves whenever I went onto the factory floor to ask the supervisor about an employee's time card.

I visited a friend after a difficult labor resulting in an emergency c-section. I had to wear a mask to visit her, and her baby, who was in NICU.

Sometimes when living up north, I had to spread fertilizer mixed with diatomaceous earth on the property. While the clay (earth) isn't poisonous, it's fine particles of clay that can stick to your lungs and cause respiratory distress if you inhale too much of it. So I wore a mask. I wear a mask now when I spread it outside the house along the edge of the driveway, when we get ant-hills.

In the winter up north, I didn't wear something so flimsy as a mask. I wore a hijab. That's right. An extra-long pashmina wool scarf, covering my head, then wrapped around the back of my head, wrapped to the front to cover my entire face from the nose down and tucked into my jacket to cover the front of my neck. I'm not a Muslim. But they have the right idea about dressing for winter, that's for damned sure. The only part of my head or neck that was NOT covered with that thing was my eyes. And I wore glasses so THOSE were covered as well.

I believe he/she said "I can't remember any time in my lifetime where I was required to wear a mask .." I've said the same thing. Required is the key word.

[Gulfcoast]

Fauci has admitted that up to half of the employees at NIH have opted NOT to get vaccinated. I would imagine that the peer pressure to get vaccinated would be pretty high at NIH but still up to 50% of the employees have opted not to vaccinate.

Just an interesting little tidbit to mull over.

[Justus]

Fauci has admitted that up to half of the employees at NIH have opted NOT to get vaccinated. I would imagine that the peer pressure to get vaccinated would be pretty high at NIH but still up to 50% of the employees have opted not to vaccinate.

And in the short time vaccines have been available, the following statistics have been documented. I'll take my chances with my natural immunity, thank you.
COVID DATA - OpenVaers (http://www.openvaers.com/covid-data)

[Bucco]

Fauci has admitted that up to half of the employees at NIH have opted NOT to get vaccinated. I would imagine that the peer pressure to get vaccinated would be pretty high at NIH but still up to 50% of the employees have opted not to vaccinate.

Just an interesting little tidbit to mull over.

Would appreciate a link to your source for that news, and date of the news.

There was news of short supply for NIH employees back in December

[GrumpyOldMan]

Fauci has admitted that up to half of the employees at NIH have opted NOT to get vaccinated. I would imagine that the peer pressure to get vaccinated would be pretty high at NIH but still up to 50% of the employees have opted not to vaccinate.

Just an interesting little tidbit to mull over.

Hmm, I can't seem to find a single quote where Fauci said this, could you please point me to where you found it?

[Gulfcoast]

Hmm, I can't seem to find a single quote where Fauci said this, could you please point me to where you found it?

It's on Youtube. I'll see if I can find it.

[Boomer]

Interesting article today on npr.org -- to read or a 4:17 Listen.

Under the series Untangling Disinformation, the article is titled, "Just 12 People Are Behind Most Vaccine Hoaxes On Social Media Research Shows."

There are different agendas behind the "Disinformation Dozen."

Boomer

[GrumpyOldMan]

Interesting article today on npr.org -- to read or a 4:17 Listen.

Under the series Untangling Disinformation, the article is titled, "Just 12 People Are Behind Most Vaccine Hoaxes On Social Media Research Shows."

There are different agendas behind the "Disinformation Dozen."

Boomer

I saw that article myself. I do believe the human race is not mature enough for the internet. the instant fame, instant dissemination of information, and the vast overwhelming about of information created every day is impossible for anyone to keep up with.

[UpNorth]

And in the short time vaccines have been available, the following statistics have been documented. I'll take my chances with my natural immunity, thank you.
COVID DATA - OpenVaers (http://www.openvaers.com/covid-data)


Wow. From the official government agency. Why doesn't the media report on this? Post this on Facebook, Twitter or YouTube and see what happens.:ohdear:

[Gulfcoast]

This is the Youtube video: CDC & FDA: 40-50% Of Our Employees Are Not Vaccinated - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wcpy6iLfLE)

[graciegirl]

Wow. From the official government agency. Why doesn't the media report on this? Post this on Facebook, Twitter or YouTube and see what happens.:ohdear:

VAERS is a place where anyone can report on reactions to vaccine, but that does not mean the reports have been substantiated.

Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/vaers.html)

[Justus]

VAERS is a place where anyone can report on reactions to vaccine, but that does not mean the reports have been substantiated.

Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/vaers.html)

You are correct. VAERS estimates their figures are low by a factor of 10 to 100. Why? Many people do not report their side effects, or are not aware that they are attributable to the vaccine. The numbers do not suit the current media narrative.

[Bucco]

This is the Youtube video: CDC & FDA: 40-50% Of Our Employees Are Not Vaccinated - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wcpy6iLfLE)

I heard 60% as an estimate, as opposed to less than 40% of all Americans.

Not sure of your point, but sure you have one.

[Gulfcoast]

I heard 60% as an estimate, as opposed to less than 40% of all Americans.

Not sure of your point, but sure you have one.

Fauci said "a little" over 50%, he wasn't sure, but maybe 60% had been vaccinated at his institute.

So that takes the number to somewhere between 40% - 50% not being vaccinated.

The others also didn't have exact numbers but guestimated around the same.

And to clarify - that is not the number of all Americans vaccinated, that is the number of employees at the CDC, FDA, NIH that have been vaccinated.

[Swoop]

I was in Publix yesterday. There was a sign that said masks required unless you are vaccinated. I put my mask on (out of habit), took it off, felt very vulnerable among the maskless (who knows if they're vaccinated or just refusing to wear a mask) and put it back on. What about the seven NY Yankees staff that contracted Covid after their vaccinations?


It's going to take a while for me to feel comfortable not wearing a mask in a busy store. And partly because I feel this latest directive came from a governors' meeting at which many urged the prez to do away with masks for the vaccinated. I believe it was the Utah governor who said We're a vaccinated country; let's act like one.


Makes me wonder if there was any science behind it, or the CDC just caved. I'll feel better about it in a month or two if the infection rate continues to drop.
Update: as of today 9 members of the NY Yankees players and staff that had been previously vaccinated, have tested positive for Covid...

[UpNorth]

Update: as of today 9 members of the NY Yankees players and staff that had been previously vaccinated, have tested positive for Covid...

Add Bill Mahr to the list. Just because you get the vaccine doesn't mean you can't get Covid, or pass it around to other people. If you think it makes you "immune", you are just buying the BS from the mass media.

[Gulfcoast]

Add Bill Mahr to the list. Just because you get the vaccine doesn't mean you can't get Covid, or pass it around to other people. If you think it makes you "immune", you are just buying the BS from the mass media.

Are any of them actually sick or have they just tested positive?

If they simply tested positive but aren't ill then maybe that's good enough.

[Becca9800]

Somewhere, there is a site that is talking about this possibility but I have not yet run into it. I try very hard to check my sources, and although I do not agree very often with the editorial stance of some of them, I KNOW they are dependable on facts and do not publish theories as facts. It is a possibility of course that there may be an unexpected consequence, but I chose to not die right now, and hope that again, science will find a stop to any "consequences that could happen a year or two from now".

GracieGirl, what you're hearing are NOT facts, it is OPINION. It can't be fact because no one really knows this virus. So what you are hearing is opinion. You need only to decide if what you're hearing makes sense to you.

This whole issue has shown us what politics can sway, and how when people are frightened, they often show it in anger and seek answers from undependable sources and those without valid and dependable information. Some big news broadcasting companies made TERRIBLE errors and chose lightweight medical people to tell us what to think in the early days of this.

See, this is a perfect example. I get the point of your message and I feel it was CBS, NBC, most def CNN, NPR wo dependable info, putting unsourced "experts" out there to tell us the what-fors and why-nots around this NOVEL virus. I accept that you wish to follow MSM, WHY can't it simply be accepted that there are those of us who do not agree with the MSM experts? WHY must the MSM followers continue to criticize, guilt, and harangue those that have a different opinion? No need to try to answer his, there is no answer, I get it.

The CDC, Dr. Fauci and his group, the NIH and other government agencies who we have always trusted for precise answers were standing and watching and assimilating a rapidly changing situation with no way to know the absolute answers. I still trust them. I do not believe that someone bought them. I do not think that the University of Wuhan was engaged in subversive activities for their government, because for one, it makes no sense to release a scourge that will kill your own family members and people in your very own country...to sway an American election????

I do not trust our government any longer. I used to but have heard so many discrepancies I can't afford to trust them any longer. I've no faith left. I believe the Wuhan Lab did release this virus (inadvertently) and that the virus was developed using our tax payer dollars. No need to respond to this opinion either, it is a fundamental disagreement. I understand I will change no one's mind, and you will not change mine. I'm only trying to illustrate the differences in opinions.

I hope that no harm will come to us for getting the shot but I am card carrying "R" and I stand with science and I watched 70% of this country...(on polls) that trusted Dr. Fauci. And I know why the last election was lost.

I too hope no harm comes to any vaccinated person. However, I don't have the faith that it won't, and I'm unwilling to hedge the bet. I am not opposed to being vaccinated, I'm opposed to jumping in line for a vaccine that is truly untested. I very likely one day will accept this vaccine, just not now. I need more proof. Surely this is understandable. BTW, rushing this vaccine to production, giving the manufacturers immunity is the one thing, in my opinion, where DJT failed. And failed miserably.

[Tmarkwald]

Or perhaps, those who got vaccinated will suffer the consequences a year or two from now.


Well the ones who got the vaccines using the same technology over 10 years ago have had no ill effects at all..

[UpNorth]

Well the ones who got the vaccines using the same technology over 10 years ago have had no ill effects at all..

Small number test groups. Far from the huge experimental program going on today.

[Becca9800]

Well the ones who got the vaccines using the same technology over 10 years ago have had no ill effects at all..

I'm not aware of any vaccine using this same technology. What vaccine is on the market, from 10 years ago, employing this technology? Thanks.

[drducat]

I'm not aware of any vaccine using this same technology. What vaccine is on the market, from 10 years ago, employing this technology? Thanks.

There were tests on animals which resulted in death....all of the MRNA type trials were abandoned until Covid-19.

[Tmarkwald]

Wow. From the official government agency. Why doesn't the media report on this? Post this on Facebook, Twitter or YouTube and see what happens.:ohdear:

Because it is 100% false/biased.

They aren't stupid.

But people who believe this... also think OJ didn't do it .....

[Tmarkwald]

There were tests on animals which resulted in death....all of the MRNA type trials were abandoned until Covid-19.

Sources? Didn't think so.

It's been documented on here a lot. MRNA vaccines for nearly everything are being developed and have been for over 10 years.

Google mrna .. easy

[Tmarkwald]

There were tests on animals which resulted in death....all of the MRNA type trials were abandoned until Covid-19.

Feature Article: Long-term Side Effects of COVID-19 Vaccine? What We Know. | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (https://www.chop.edu/news/long-term-side-effects-covid-19-vaccine)

[stanley]

Someone's competing with jimmyjammer for post count

[Swoop]

Well the ones who got the vaccines using the same technology over 10 years ago have had no ill effects at all..

From the University of Pennsylvania regarding the historical data on mRNA vaccine studies:
Conclusions
of first patient enrollment.
The current evidence base on messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines is made up entirely of small early-stage trials, nearly all of which examined only short-term outcomes. They lack sufficient power for testing the statistical significance of most results, and for assessing the risk of serious but uncommon adverse events.

[drducat]

Sources? Didn't think so.

It's been documented on here a lot. MRNA vaccines for nearly everything are being developed and have been for over 10 years.

Google mrna .. easy

Many trials...over and over resulted in Cytokine Storms that killed in postinfection days.

A Double-Inactivated Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Vaccine Provides Incomplete Protection in Mice and Induces Increased Eosinophilic Proinflammatory Pulmonary Response upon Challenge | Journal of Virology (https://jvi.asm.org/content/85/23/12201)

[Tmarkwald]

Many trials...over and over resulted in Cytokine Storms that killed in postinfection days.

A Double-Inactivated Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Vaccine Provides Incomplete Protection in Mice and Induces Increased Eosinophilic Proinflammatory Pulmonary Response upon Challenge | Journal of Virology (https://jvi.asm.org/content/85/23/12201)

Really? this is SARS v1, from 2002 ..

[Tmarkwald]

finally

Signs going up - NO MASKS REQUIRED

[Tmarkwald]

I'm not aware of any vaccine using this same technology. What vaccine is on the market, from 10 years ago, employing this technology? Thanks.


https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/current-events-news-541/real-truth-about-messenger-rna-318451/?highlight=mrna

[drducat]

Really? this is SARS v1, from 2002 ..

Exactly!!!

Same virus family and it took a lot of tweaking so it would not kill...

In a nut shell the mrna compound used as a vaccine actually slows down the immune system in humans (temporarily) so quell the cytokine response and not kill you...they have no idea of what future mutations of the virus will do to those vaccinated.

[coffeebean]

Add Bill Mahr to the list. Just because you get the vaccine doesn't mean you can't get Covid, or pass it around to other people. If you think it makes you "immune", you are just buying the BS from the mass media.

My understanding is vaccinated people are immune to severe symptoms and death. The actual break through infection rate is very minimal and from those minimal break through infections, the rate of death is quite minuscule (NOT ZERO but minuscule). That is good enough protection IMHO. This is why I made sure to protect myself with the vaccine.

[Tmarkwald]

My understanding is vaccinated people are immune to severe symptoms and death. The actual break through infection rate is very minimal and from those minimal break through infections, the rate of death is quite minuscule (NOT ZERO but minuscule). That is good enough protection IMHO. This is why I made sure to protect myself with the vaccine.

yep - last I read, out of 100,000,000 vaccinated, 9000 breakouts and 135 deaths, most of them due to a co-morbidity. So, rate of death is about as close to mon-existent as you can get. If you are vaccinated....

Those are the kind of odds that put you in the Powerball arena.

I could easily see life insurance companies even giving discounts for vaccinations. They give discounts to non-smokers as not smoking is single most and easiest way to mitigate an early death. Covid numbers are even worse... It won't take the actuaries long to to figure the numbers....

[coffeebean]

~~~

[coffeebean]

Small number test groups. Far from the huge experimental program going on today.

So....it was test groups? Not one person has had adverse effects? That is great news, even if the test groups were small. That is extremely encouraging to hear.

[coffeebean]

There were tests on animals which resulted in death....all of the MRNA type trials were abandoned until Covid-19.
Those animals died because the messenger was not encapsulated. This is the reason for experimentation for medications and vaccines. So sorry for the animals but they are lower in the pecking order to humans. That problem that killed the animals was solved, by research, and now the messenger is encapsulated with a protein that protects the human body from being directly exposed to it. I read all about this so I'm sure you can find this information too. Yes, experimental animals will die with all sorts of medication and vaccine development. That is what research is all about.

[Tmarkwald]

I know mRNA technology has been in development for over 30 years but I'm not aware that humans have actually been on the receiving end of this technology (prior to the Covid vaccines). Which patients have received mRNA technology vaccines prior to Covid? I know there has been development with mRNA for treatment of cancer. Is it those patients who actually received mRNA vaccines over 10 years ago? I'm very interested to know. Thanks.

The trials were small, and then interest waned I suppose due to MERS and SARS going away before they reached pandemic levels. And rabies has never been a real issue. That research, however, laid the groundwork for these mRNA vaccines. They already knew they were safe, based on the small trials. Of course, you never know when you have millions rather than thousands. But there is little doubt that mRNA vaccines saved million of lives this year alone, as we see number plummet.

Long term effects -20, 30 years down the road? Who knows. I kinda doubt many people are worrying about that. They'd rather be alive to experience whatever happens 20/30 years from now than be worm food. Especially us in TV . HAHAHAHA

I just created a thread that had all the links from previous discussions we had here on TOTV. Felt that was easier that rehashing it all.

And someone posted results of animal trials? Kinda funny, as they determined cocaine would kill mice. One ounce of cocaine injected into a 4 ounce mouse killed it. Same with tests of cosmetics. They apply the equivalent of 100+ times more than necessary to see the effects on animals. So, I ignore that stuff.

[coffeebean]

finally

Signs going up - NO MASKS REQUIRED

The signs should also include, "FOR FULLY VACCINATED PEOPLE".

[Tmarkwald]

The signs should also include, "FOR FULLY VACCINATED PEOPLE".

It does!

[Tmarkwald]

trying again

But, it looks like picture uploads are not working again

[Tmarkwald]

The signs should also include, "FOR FULLY VACCINATED PEOPLE".

here ya go

[Swoop]

The trials were small, and then interest waned I suppose due to MERS and SARS going away before they reached pandemic levels. And rabies has never been a real issue. That research, however, laid the groundwork for these mRNA vaccines. They already knew they were safe, based on the small trials. Of course, you never know when you have millions rather than thousands. But there is little doubt that mRNA vaccines saved million of lives this year alone, as we see number plummet.

Long term effects -20, 30 years down the road? Who knows. I kinda doubt many people are worrying about that. They'd rather be alive to experience whatever happens 20/30 years from now than be worm food. Especially us in TV . HAHAHAHA

I just created a thread that had all the links from previous discussions we had here on TOTV. Felt that was easier that rehashing it all.

And someone posted results of animal trials? Kinda funny, as they determined cocaine would kill mice. One ounce of cocaine injected into a 4 ounce mouse killed it. Same with tests of cosmetics. They apply the equivalent of 100+ times more than necessary to see the effects on animals. So, I ignore that stuff.
20-30 years?!? No one knows what potential side effects from the mRNA vaccines will be in 2-3 years...

[Tmarkwald]

20-30 years?!? No one knows what potential side effects from the mRNA vaccines will be in 2-3 years...

Yes, they certainly have a good idea - even with the small - 10,000 people in the trials from over 10 years ago have had no side effects.

But choice between life OR life imprisoned in my basement for fear of catching and dying from the virus?

Easy choice

[stanley]

The signs should also include, "FOR FULLY VACCINATED PEOPLE".

How would "they" know?

[Gulfcoast]

How would "they" know?

They won't. Not that the stores even want to know.

It's funny how it was o.k. for the cashiers to go to work every day and it was fine for all of the delivery drivers to help keep people safe during the peak of this virus, but now the same people that were kept safe are demanding that these workers get vaccinated.

I must say that I find that to be a bit disappointing.

[Swoop]

Yes, they certainly have a good idea - even with the small - 10,000 people in the trials from over 10 years ago have had no side effects.

But choice between life OR life imprisoned in my basement for fear of catching and dying from the virus?

Easy choice

Please provide a link to an nRMA study that tracks long term effects.

According to the University of Pennsylvania, they don’t exist:
Conclusions
of first patient enrollment.
The current evidence base on messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines is made up entirely of small early-stage trials, nearly all of which examined only short-term outcomes. They lack sufficient power for testing the statistical significance of most results, and for assessing the risk of serious but uncommon adverse events.

[drducat]

My understanding is vaccinated people are immune to severe symptoms and death. The actual break through infection rate is very minimal and from those minimal break through infections, the rate of death is quite minuscule (NOT ZERO but minuscule). That is good enough protection IMHO. This is why I made sure to protect myself with the vaccine.

Yes...the vaccine will keep you out of the hospital....as far as how apt one is to being infected...that is still a huge unknown...also.....vaccinated folks will be shedding the virus for sometime...that is why the masks were required for a while...may end up back again...anyone's guess...because that is what science is doing right now.!!!

[Swoop]

But choice between life OR life imprisoned in my basement for fear of catching and dying from the virus?

Easy choice
I am not living in fear of the Covid virus. Why should I? The chances of it negatively affecting me are infinitesimally small, given my age, weight & health. So while you may have been cowering in your basement, waiting for the vaccine, I was out living my life...

[drducat]

Those animals died because the messenger was not encapsulated. This is the reason for experimentation for medications and vaccines. So sorry for the animals but they are lower in the pecking order to humans. That problem that killed the animals was solved, by research, and now the messenger is encapsulated with a protein that protects the human body from being directly exposed to it. I read all about this so I'm sure you can find this information too. Yes, experimental animals will die with all sorts of medication and vaccine development. That is what research is all about.

Encapsulated? Not really the right response....your or the animal immune system after vaccinated....respond positively....no so good with a variant..the variants are what confuses the immune response which causes a cytokine storm where organs are attacked...just like autoimmune....Then the case of misidentification...that is where Mrna tells the body to create a spike protein and then the immune response creates the antibody...the spike protein is identified by shape only in this type of vaccine...sometimes the protein may look like the optic nerve or some other organ and the immune response ends up in blindness or killing off some other organ.....In humans only time will tell what happens next.....will take another year to know.

[drducat]

Please provide a link to an nRMA study that tracks long term effects.

According to the University of Pennsylvania, they don’t exist:
Conclusions
of first patient enrollment.
The current evidence base on messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines is made up entirely of small early-stage trials, nearly all of which examined only short-term outcomes. They lack sufficient power for testing the statistical significance of most results, and for assessing the risk of serious but uncommon adverse events.

Correct no links available...check back in the near future.

[Gulfcoast]

Life comes with risks. There is a risk to not getting the vaccine and there is a risk that comes with being vaccinated. Weigh the risks and decide what is right for you.

Why some feel the need to micromanage other people's personal health decisions is beyond me.

I think that the vaccines are safe and that vaccination is certainly a better alternative for those at risk of complications from this virus. For young, healthy people who aren't at any particular risk from the virus, the vaccine is not necessary. For the more in between folks in reasonable health it could go either way.

Certainly the people who have suffered serious health issues from Covid, only wish now that a vaccine had been available to them. But those who have suffered extreme side effects from the vaccine probably wish now that they had never gotten the shot.

We all have different risk factors so the "best" thing for each one of us will be different.

[Tmarkwald]

You’re the one who said the options were getting the vaccine or hiding in fear in your basement. I guess you don’t remember what you posted 30 minutes ago...
Maybe it’s the effects of the vaccine...

yeah, well I said those were the choices, I chose the vaccine. Had to anyway, glad I did. My point was that if you don't get vaccinated you will soon be unable to do many things you used to be able to do, should you choose.

Unless, of course, you break the law.

And I think anyone reading my previous post, that you seem unable to understand, knows exactly what I said.

Enough on this - you take your chances; I'll live my life without fear.

[Gulfcoast]

yeah, well I said those were the choices, I chose the vaccine. Had to anyway, glad I did. My point was that if you don't get vaccinated you will soon be unable to do many things you used to be able to do, should you choose.

Unless, of course, you break the law.

And I think anyone reading my previous post, that you seem unable to understand, knows exactly what I said.

Enough on this - you take your chances; I'll live my life without fear.

Are you willing to step up and be the one who keeps the unvaccinated safe? Maybe you can deliver their packages and be in charge of their contactless grocery pickup while they kick back, collect their government checks and stay safe?

Be careful what you pray for.

[Swoop]

yeah, well I said those were the choices, I chose the vaccine. Had to anyway, glad I did. My point was that if you don't get vaccinated you will soon be unable to do many things you used to be able to do, should you choose.

Unless, of course, you break the law.

And I think anyone reading my previous post, that you seem unable to understand, knows exactly what I said.

Enough on this - you take your chances; I'll live my life without fear.
No fear for me. And we’ll see how “many” things I will be unable to do.
I sincerely hope that there are no long term side effects from the mRNA vaccines. But given the fact that NO ONE knows if there will be, I will not have to live in fear for the next 5 years until the results of this trial are compiled...

[Tmarkwald]

Are you willing to step up and be the one who keeps the unvaccinated safe? Maybe you can deliver their packages and be in charge of their contactless grocery pickup while they kick back, collect their government checks and stay safe?
.

Aw he!! NO! That's exactly what I have been saying! I have ZERO responsibility for anyone refusing to get the vaccine! None whatsoever.

Non-vaxxers take their life into their own hands - they choose their own destiny.

I just don't want their ill-advised decisions to affect me. Do you?

And as far as the useless slugs who sit back and take the unemployment cashouts because they are too lazy to work? Don't even get me started.

[Gulfcoast]

Aw he!! NO! That's exactly what I have been saying! I have ZERO responsibility for anyone refusing to get the vaccine! None whatsoever.

Non-vaxxers take their life into their own hands - they choose their own destiny.

I just don't want their ill-advised decisions to affect me. Do you?

And as far as the useless slugs who sit back and take the unemployment cashouts because they are too lazy to work? Don't even get me started.

I agree that the unvaccinated should own their own choices. I do not agree that their freedom should be in any way limited. They should be able to work, travel, go to concerts just like the vaccinated do.

The vaccination cards and "stars on thars" approach would be a terrible precedent for this country and one that should be avoided at all costs.

[Tmarkwald]

It makes me scared for the children that are being brought into this country. If owning a child is made into a profitable business, then the worst of the worst will start getting kids to get checks.

It makes me extremely sad and also scared for my grandkids. The sense of nostalgia that a lot of have when we come to TV also seems lost.

A lot of the appeal, at least to me, with TV are the little things. The friendliness, the sense of being in a safe place. Heck, even the stupid newspaper, which I love simply because it reminds me of times gone by. I don't know of anywhere in the country where they can print an inch thick paper every single day and manage to say absolutely nothing newsworthy. But that is just fine. It's like the Truman Show - our bubble. And I embrace it.

What makes me sad is that this idyllic pace of life may go away after we're all gone unless people start understanding that working for a living is the true key to success and happiness.

Ah, waxing poetic....

[Gulfcoast]

It makes me extremely sad and also scared for my grandkids. The sense of nostalgia that a lot of have when we come to TV also seems lost.

A lot of the appeal, at least to me, with TV are the little things. The friendliness, the sense of being in a safe place. Heck, even the stupid newspaper, which I love simply because it reminds me of times gone by. I don't know of anywhere in the country where they can print an inch thick paper every single day and manage to say absolutely nothing newsworthy. But that is just fine. It's like the Truman Show - our bubble. And I embrace it.

What makes me sad is that this idyllic pace of life may go away after we're all gone unless people start understanding that working for a living is the true key to success and happiness.

Ah, waxing poetic....

I feel that there will be lessons learned from all of this. The people collecting the free money will be happy until the spigot runs dry, as it most certainly will. Some states are never going to be the same. Too much damage has been done - economically, socially, mentally.

Florida, for the most part, has done a good job in mitigating the damage to this state. People have been working and kids have been going to school. The vaccination roll out has been successful. Our state has shown the country that it is safe to get back into life again.

The Sunshine State has a lot to be proud of and there is a reason that TV has become such a popular retirement destination. People want and need that nice little bubble in their older years. They want a nice place for their kids and grandchildren to visit. I don't see that changing,

[coffeebean]

here ya go

No photo was attached.

[Tmarkwald]

I feel that there will be lessons learned from all of this. The people collecting the free money will be happy until the spigot runs dry, as it most certainly will. Some states are never going to be the same. Too much damage has been done - economically, socially, mentally.

Florida, for the most part, has done a good job in mitigating the damage to this state. People have been working and kids have been going to school. The vaccination roll out has been successful. Our state has shown the country that it is safe to get back into life again.

The Sunshine State has a lot to be proud of and there is a reason that TV has become such a popular retirement destination. People want and need that nice little bubble in their older years. They want a nice place for their kids and grandchildren to visit. I don't see that changing,


I hope and pray that your predictions are 100% spot on. I want to live long enough that one of my kids will love it here and can take the home and live the lifestyle we have.

Right now they're doing their thing.. But someday it happens to all of us.. and we realize it's that time...

[coffeebean]

How would "they" know?

They won't. The "honor system" is an absolute joke. I will continue to keep my distance as best that I can from others as I go maskless in every venue that does not require masks.

[coffeebean]

Encapsulated? Not really the right response....your or the animal immune system after vaccinated....respond positively....no so good with a variant..the variants are what confuses the immune response which causes a cytokine storm where organs are attacked...just like autoimmune....Then the case of misidentification...that is where Mrna tells the body to create a spike protein and then the immune response creates the antibody...the spike protein is identified by shape only in this type of vaccine...sometimes the protein may look like the optic nerve or some other organ and the immune response ends up in blindness or killing off some other organ.....In humans only time will tell what happens next.....will take another year to know.

Maybe my word "encapsulated"' is not quite correct. What was done was to cover the messenger somehow with a some sort of protein so it would not be in direct contact with the body. I can not find the study that I originally read about this. It was ground breaking, however, in order to go forward with development of the mRNA vaccines. Without that "tweek" we would not have been able to have humans injected with this vaccine. That "tweek" fixed a huge problem for the utilization of these mRNA vaccines.

I know cytokine storm is what killed many Covid victims early on in the pandemic. I have not heard that a vaccine can cause this phenomenon, however.

[Tmarkwald]

Maybe my word "encapsulated"' is not quite correct. What was done was to cover the messenger somehow with a some sort of protein so it would not be in direct contact with the body. I can not find the study that I originally read about this. It was ground breaking, however, in order to go forward with development of the mRNA vaccines. Without that "tweek" we would not have been able to have humans injected with this vaccine. That "tweek" fixed a huge problem for the utilization of these mRNA vaccines.

I know exactly what you read - That was the 'halleluiah!' moment when they got past that.

And the term 'encapsulated' was exactly what I inferred as well.

I'm not bothering to search for the medical journal entries and studies for it. I just remember the article very well. I just remember that it was that breakthrough that possibly saved 10's of millions from dying...

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I’ve got papers that’s says I was vaccinated. I think we need to be tattooed on forehead for all to see :faint:

I have papers and I took a picture and keep it in my phone. It's fine with me if unvaccinated people want to walk around with a mask. They can only infect other unvaccinated people. Currently, in the state of Florida, there are more vaccine doses than there are people trying to get vaccinated. So if you're not vaccinated by now, it's your problem, not mine.

[coffeebean]

I know exactly what you read - That was the 'halleluiah!' moment when they got past that.

And the term 'encapsulated' was exactly what I inferred as well.

I'm not bothering to search for the medical journal entries and studies for it. I just remember the article very well. I just remember that it was that breakthrough that possibly saved 10's of millions from dying...

Good to know I didn't just dream about that.

[bobdeb]

No, not less valuable.

But, it isn't about not thinking like me, it's about belligerently refusing to take measures to protect themselves against a deadly virus.

You are making assumptions as to what folks think and feel regarding taking the vaccine.

I know of three people who are clearly not belligerent nor closed minded and are currently still unvaccinated. They have their reasons.

[bobdeb]

Jumping off a bridge to commit suicide, if that's what you mean, and opting to not take this "vaccine" is night and day. It's a silly analogy.


Precisely

[bobdeb]

Not true......many of us so call belligerent people have a variety of reasons we choose not to get the shot and frankly I tried of all you who has choose to get the shot feel you have the right to call us names and say rude things about us. This is out of control with the hate.

I read this the other day
“Hate has caused a lot of problems in this world but it hasn’t fix one yet”

Maybe time to stop hating those who have every right not to get the shot and move on.

Yes. Thank you.

However, some day we should all hope that we are as enlightened as those who intend to characterize folks who choose not to receive the vaccine... maybe just yet.

And I personally don't need to know or care if you've had one shot, or two or whatever.

[bobdeb]

Shall we start shaming those with a drinking problem from buying alchohol. Ban all cigarettes and tobacco products and vaping. We could post a scale in front of the Doritos display that sets off an alarm for those 'gravitationally challenged'. Ban soft drinks (pop, soda, whatever) and other foods from diabetics. We'll throw in the unvaccinated for good measure.

And then march those violators down through a square chanting 'shame!, shame!' ala 'Game of Thrones'.

[coffeebean]

And in the short time vaccines have been available, the following statistics have been documented. I'll take my chances with my natural immunity, thank you.
COVID DATA - OpenVaers (http://www.openvaers.com/covid-data)

Per Google......."VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning it relies on individuals to send in reports of their experiences. Anyone can submit a report to VAERS, including parents and patients."

What does "anyone" mean? Could there possibly be people that make false reports? Just a thought.

[stanley]

Per Google......."VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning it relies on individuals to send in reports of their experiences. Anyone can submit a report to VAERS, including parents and patients."

What does "anyone" mean? Could there possibly be people that make false reports? Just a thought.

Possibly.......possibly not.....just a thought

[Aloha1]

YOUR science says get the shot. MY science says tread carefully. This vaccine was rushed to production, has not been fully vetted, is experimental, and we just don't know the long term effects. The science is NOT clear at all, the recommendations changed day to day because they just don't know what they don't know. Those are indisputable facts that maybe you can justify, I cannot.

I haven't been locked down ever. In fact, every day I went to work at a hospital where at one point there were 70 Covid-infected patients under the same roof as me. An infested hospital where I had direct interaction w the people providing direct care to the infected. Nor will I go into lock down now. I'm pretty sure the ones you see wearing masks while driving alone in their car are those ultra paranoid of contracting C19. They were the first in line to receive a vaccine. Those holding off on getting a vaccine just aren't that paranoid as evidenced by the fact they weren't first in line to receive the vaccine.

Virtue Signaling: the sharing of one's point of view on a social or political issue, often on social media, in order to garner praise or acknowledgment of one’s righteousness from others who share that point of view, or to passively rebuke those who do not.

I will conclude my response to your condescending, critical, fundamentally wrong, and worthless response by saying, but I'm the stupid one. I'm certain its intent will be lost.

For someone working in a hospital (and thank you for that), you seem to be behind the curve on the SCIENCE of MNRA vaccines, what they are and how they work. I also defer to our resident Chief Of Medicine on this as he is correct, there is only SCIENCE. Anything else is opinion.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Per Google......."VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning it relies on individuals to send in reports of their experiences. Anyone can submit a report to VAERS, including parents and patients."

What does "anyone" mean? Could there possibly be people that make false reports? Just a thought.

The point isn't that anyone can submit a report. The point is that the report doesn't prove a correlation or causation. To wit:

I got my second Pfizer vaccine 3 weeks ago.

Two days ago, my bursitis started acting up again.


If I report that to VAERS, it will be on record that at least one vaccinated person has had a flareup of bursitis post-vaccine.

What will NOT be on record: I had my one and only cortisone shot 5 months ago and the doctor warned me it'd probably wear off around 4-6 months after I got it. I was expecting this flareup, and it has NOTHING to do with the vaccine.

I can also report having experienced loose bowels for 4 days total between the last vaccine and today.

What will NOT be on record: I ate a lot of cashews yesterday and the day before, and those are triggers for my digestive system. A little over a week ago, I had the last of the bleu cheese in the fridge, and there was a lot of it, and like a pig I ate the whole bunch. That is also a trigger. Two weeks ago, I bought that bleu cheese, and ate a big honkin chunk of it when I got home. Melted. On triscuits. OMG. My digestive system protested violently the next day.

There is no correlation OR causation between the vaccine and my digestive upsets. AT ALL. But I can report it all, and it will show up on record as someone who got the second shot and subsequently had digestive upset.

[Aloha1]

You want credible? Use the BBC for unbiased reporting. They have no dog in the race and are very credible as a news source.

OMG! The BBC is well noted for it's left wing bias. Any of our UK cousins care to jump in on this?

[Aloha1]

Hmm, I can't seem to find a single quote where Fauci said this, could you please point me to where you found it?

It was before a Senate Committee hearing a couple days ago. Check CSPAN

[coffeebean]

The point isn't that anyone can submit a report. The point is that the report doesn't prove a correlation or causation. To wit:

I got my second Pfizer vaccine 3 weeks ago.

Two days ago, my bursitis started acting up again.


If I report that to VAERS, it will be on record that at least one vaccinated person has had a flareup of bursitis post-vaccine.

What will NOT be on record: I had my one and only cortisone shot 5 months ago and the doctor warned me it'd probably wear off around 4-6 months after I got it. I was expecting this flareup, and it has NOTHING to do with the vaccine.

I can also report having experienced loose bowels for 4 days total between the last vaccine and today.

What will NOT be on record: I ate a lot of cashews yesterday and the day before, and those are triggers for my digestive system. A little over a week ago, I had the last of the bleu cheese in the fridge, and there was a lot of it, and like a pig I ate the whole bunch. That is also a trigger. Two weeks ago, I bought that bleu cheese, and ate a big honkin chunk of it when I got home. Melted. On triscuits. OMG. My digestive system protested violently the next day.

There is no correlation OR causation between the vaccine and my digestive upsets. AT ALL. But I can report it all, and it will show up on record as someone who got the second shot and subsequently had digestive upset.
Great explanation. I had no idea. Thanks.

[Aloha1]

I saw that article myself. I do believe the human race is not mature enough for the internet. the instant fame, instant dissemination of information, and the vast overwhelming about of information created every day is impossible for anyone to keep up with.

There is no "Human Race". There is a Human Species . The entire idea of "race" is a made up thing going back to the 1800's to justify one group having superiority over another. So today, all this Cr*p about "racial justice" is just perpetuating a falsehood. We should be talking about discrimination based on ethnicity since that is where most of these grievances fall into.

[Aloha1]

There were tests on animals which resulted in death....all of the MRNA type trials were abandoned until Covid-19.

Sources please?

[Becca9800]

.....you seem to be behind the curve on the SCIENCE of MNRA vaccines, what they are and how they work. I also defer to our resident Chief Of Medicine on this as he is correct, there is only SCIENCE. Anything else is opinion.

OR maybe this "science" hasn't yet earned the title of "SCIENCE". With the 'facts' and recommendations changing daily, calling it "SCIENCE" is laughable. Feels more like a massive experiment to me, and we're the guinea pigs. Perhaps my thinking is ahead of and not behind the curve. You at least have to give me credit for questioning vs following blindly. Right?

Do you mean Fauci when you say our resident Chief of Medicine? If so, IMHO, he's a political hack. The man will say whatever he's told to say. Why do I say that, you ask. Because he has repeated instances of changing his opinion every time the wind changes direction. No need for masks one day, and the next day only double masking will keep you safe. C'mon! The "science" he was referencing simply doesn't change overnight like that. The benefit/lack of benefit of masking is known. For example, influenza kills thousands of otherwise healthy American adults AND children every year. Why do you suppose we have never been ordered to mask up to avoid contracting influenza? I don't quite get that one. I don't have an answer but I sure question why, if masks work to keep me safe from killer viruses, why have masks never before been recommended? And I'm angry bc my friend's otherwise healthy 16 year-old daughter, dead from influenza, might still be alive if the Faucis had recommended masking to prevent contracting. Too many dangling chads for me to have a comfortable opinion on whether to vaccinate or not.

[Lindsyburnsy]

Actually, the janitors were the only ones working on site.

[Lindsyburnsy]

FB, You-Tube and Twitter? Well, those are certainly reliable sources for information on health.

[Aloha1]

OR maybe this "science" hasn't yet earned the title of "SCIENCE". With the 'facts' and recommendations changing daily, calling it "SCIENCE" is laughable. Feels more like a massive experiment to me, and we're the guinea pigs. Perhaps my thinking is ahead of and not behind the curve. You at least have to give me credit for questioning vs following blindly. Right?

Do you mean Fauci when you say our resident Chief of Medicine? If so, IMHO, he's a political hack. The man will say whatever he's told to say. Why do I say that, you ask. Because he has repeated instances of changing his opinion every time the wind changes direction. No need for masks one day, and the next day only double masking will keep you safe. C'mon! The "science" he was referencing simply doesn't change overnight like that. The benefit/lack of benefit of masking is known. For example, influenza kills thousands of otherwise healthy American adults AND children every year. Why do you suppose we have never been ordered to mask up to avoid contracting influenza? I don't quite get that one. I don't have an answer but I sure question why, if masks work to keep me safe from killer viruses, why have masks never before been recommended? And I'm angry bc my friend's otherwise healthy 16 year-old daughter, dead from influenza, might still be alive if the Faucis had recommended masking to prevent contracting. Too many dangling chads for me to have a comfortable opinion on whether to vaccinate or not.

Certainly not Fauci. TOTV.

[jimjamuser]

Deadly to whom? The answer is overweight people with compromised immune systems. If you’re not overweight and you don’t have diabetes, hypertension, lung disease or heart disease, it’s NOT a “deadly” virus. The chances of you dying from Covid are infinitesimal - according to the statistics provided by the CDC...
The chances are at least 2% if you add together DEATH, current PAIN and COST of being in the hospital, and the FURTHER PAIN of long haul symptoms!

[jimjamuser]

I agree that the unvaccinated should own their own choices. I do not agree that their freedom should be in any way limited. They should be able to work, travel, go to concerts just like the vaccinated do.

The vaccination cards and "stars on thars" approach would be a terrible precedent for this country and one that should be avoided at all costs.
So, you want your cake and eat it too. That's what I expect from the socially irresponsible!

[jimjamuser]

Shall we start shaming those with a drinking problem from buying alchohol. Ban all cigarettes and tobacco products and vaping. We could post a scale in front of the Doritos display that sets off an alarm for those 'gravitationally challenged'. Ban soft drinks (pop, soda, whatever) and other foods from diabetics. We'll throw in the unvaccinated for good measure.

And then march those violators down through a square chanting 'shame!, shame!' ala 'Game of Thrones'.
Vaping is a good way to damage young children's brains and adding flavors is REALLY sneaky. Older smokers end up in hospitals and some have painful DEATHS much earlier than non-smokers. And again the tobacco companies were SNEAKY about killing research into the greater health risks. People did NOT have all the facts to be able to make an intelligent choice - advertisements and lies prevented that. Taxpayers pay money to their Government to keep the playing field honest - taxpayers were let down!

[jimjamuser]

OR maybe this "science" hasn't yet earned the title of "SCIENCE". With the 'facts' and recommendations changing daily, calling it "SCIENCE" is laughable. Feels more like a massive experiment to me, and we're the guinea pigs. Perhaps my thinking is ahead of and not behind the curve. You at least have to give me credit for questioning vs following blindly. Right?

Do you mean Fauci when you say our resident Chief of Medicine? If so, IMHO, he's a political hack. The man will say whatever he's told to say. Why do I say that, you ask. Because he has repeated instances of changing his opinion every time the wind changes direction. No need for masks one day, and the next day only double masking will keep you safe. C'mon! The "science" he was referencing simply doesn't change overnight like that. The benefit/lack of benefit of masking is known. For example, influenza kills thousands of otherwise healthy American adults AND children every year. Why do you suppose we have never been ordered to mask up to avoid contracting influenza? I don't quite get that one. I don't have an answer but I sure question why, if masks work to keep me safe from killer viruses, why have masks never before been recommended? And I'm angry bc my friend's otherwise healthy 16 year-old daughter, dead from influenza, might still be alive if the Faucis had recommended masking to prevent contracting. Too many dangling chads for me to have a comfortable opinion on whether to vaccinate or not.
Science is basically a series of papers in Scientific Journals where Scientists enter their research as a hypothesis (possibilities) and then it is peer-reviewed. After enough peer review a particular hypothesis may be accepted as a "standard". At some future time, that "standard" will be challenged and THEN it may be modified. Thus, science changes and moves FORWARD, never stagnant!

[Gulfcoast]

So, you want your cake and eat it too. That's what I expect from the socially irresponsible!

Taking responsibility for yourself and mitigating your own health risks is being socially responsible.

A group called America's Frontline Doctors has pointed out that young people under the age of 20 have a 99.997% survivability rate from COVID-19 - they have close to a ZERO percent chance of dying from COVID-19. Yet, the government is advocating that this age group get vaccinated in spite of the documented risks of adverse side effects.

That is why it is so important for us all to make these decisions for ourselves.

[Bill14564]

Taking responsibility for yourself and mitigating your own health risks is being socially responsible.

A group called America's Frontline Doctors has pointed out that young people under the age of 20 have a 99.997% survivability rate from COVID-19 - they have close to a ZERO percent chance of dying from COVID-19. Yet, the government is advocating that this age group get vaccinated in spite of the documented risks of adverse side effects.

That is why it is so important for us all to make these decisions for ourselves.

And the fatality rate could be 20x lower with the vaccine.

Where are the documented risks of adverse side effects? There is the clotting issue with the J&J vaccine but I guess I missed the others. Unless you are referring to VAERS but that is a database of correlation and not causation.

[jimjamuser]

Taking responsibility for yourself and mitigating your own health risks is being socially responsible.

A group called America's Frontline Doctors has pointed out that young people under the age of 20 have a 99.997% survivability rate from COVID-19 - they have close to a ZERO percent chance of dying from COVID-19. Yet, the government is advocating that this age group get vaccinated in spite of the documented risks of adverse side effects.

That is why it is so important for us all to make these decisions for ourselves.
This is exactly why bad decisions are made because ALL the facts are NOT known or ignored. If you HAD been reading about CV enough, you would KNOW that the NEWER variants of CV that are now prevalent in the UK (and have been found recently in the US) - these newer variants are MORE likely to infect younger children than the predominate variant in the US.

The problem has ALWAYS been that the CV is evolving. That is why people like myself have advocated getting as MANY people vaccinated as FAST as possible because we have a small lead on the VIRUS and only vaccinations of the vaccine-hesitant will allow us to FINISH it off. Then, life in the US can return to normal, not before. We KEEP trying to DECLARE victory over CV when we are only CLOSE. We have to achieve an ACTUAL victory over the CV - not just jump up and down and WISH that victory to happen.

[Gulfcoast]

This is exactly why bad decisions are made because ALL the facts are NOT known or ignored. If you HAD been reading about CV enough, you would KNOW that the NEWER variants of CV that are now prevalent in the UK (and have been found recently in the US) - these newer variants are MORE likely to infect younger children than the predominate variant in the US.

The problem has ALWAYS been that the CV is evolving. That is why people like myself have advocated getting as MANY people vaccinated as FAST as possible because we have a small lead on the VIRUS and only vaccinations of the vaccine-hesitant will allow us to FINISH it off. Then, life in the US can return to normal, not before. We KEEP trying to DECLARE victory over CV when we are only CLOSE. We have to achieve an ACTUAL victory over the CV - not just jump up and down and WISH that victory to happen.

Don't buy into the hype and the fear mongering. That's no way to live your life.

[jimjamuser]

Taking responsibility for yourself and mitigating your own health risks is being socially responsible.

A group called America's Frontline Doctors has pointed out that young people under the age of 20 have a 99.997% survivability rate from COVID-19 - they have close to a ZERO percent chance of dying from COVID-19. Yet, the government is advocating that this age group get vaccinated in spite of the documented risks of adverse side effects.

That is why it is so important for us all to make these decisions for ourselves.
And also, speaking of America's Doctors - 90% of US Doctors have had their vaccine - only 10% are waiting.

[Swoop]

The chances are at least 2% if you add together DEATH, current PAIN and COST of being in the hospital, and the FURTHER PAIN of long haul symptoms!

WOW! Where did you pull that number from. Let’s see some actual data to back it up...
I know you won’t provide it, because it doesn’t exist...

[Swoop]

And also, speaking of America's Doctors - 90% of US Doctors have had their vaccine - only 10% are waiting.

At least 40% of Fauci’s group has not been vaccinated...

[coffeebean]

Taking responsibility for yourself and mitigating your own health risks is being socially responsible.

A group called America's Frontline Doctors has pointed out that young people under the age of 20 have a 99.997% survivability rate from COVID-19 - they have close to a ZERO percent chance of dying from COVID-19. Yet, the government is advocating that this age group get vaccinated in spite of the documented risks of adverse side effects.

That is why it is so important for us all to make these decisions for ourselves.

What adverse side effects are you referring to? Certainly not the usual side effects of a robust immune system. Right?

[stanley]

What adverse side effects are you referring to? Certainly not the usual side effects of a robust immune system. Right?

I worry about the "undocumented risks of adverse side effects"......does anyone really think that at this point in the rollout of the "vaccine" , big pharma...or any government would come clean to the public if there was a problem? Never, ...never. "We" won't know for years.....just keep getting those "booster" shots........hope for the best......it's the patriotic thing to do.

[Bill14564]

I worry about the "undocumented risks of adverse side effects"......does anyone really think that at this point in the rollout of the "vaccine" , big pharma...or any government would come clean to the public if there was a problem? Never, ...never. "We" won't know for years.....just keep getting those "booster" shots........hope for the best......it's the patriotic thing to do.

And yet the J&J vaccine was pulled for a time due to the blood clotting issue and approval for the AZ vaccine has met several hurdles due to data collection in the trials. I think I remember a pause on Moderna early on though I could be wrong about that. And then there is the VAERS database that has gained attention recently.

It certainly is possible that the Govt or "big pharma" is trying to withhold information but that doesn't seem to be working well.

[coffeebean]

I worry about the "undocumented risks of adverse side effects"......does anyone really think that at this point in the rollout of the "vaccine" , big pharma...or any government would come clean to the public if there was a problem? Never, ...never. "We" won't know for years.....just keep getting those "booster" shots........hope for the best......it's the patriotic thing to do.

Do you honestly believe that if (BIG IF) there were adverse reactions to these vaccines that we are not being informed about, there would be trials vaccinating children and infants? Seriously??? What about when the J&J vaccine roll out was temporarily halted because of concern over blood clots in women? Was that adverse side effect hidden from us?

I don't buy into conspiracy theories.

[coffeebean]

And yet the J&J vaccine was pulled for a time due to the blood clotting issue and approval for the AZ vaccine has met several hurdles due to data collection in the trials. I think I remember a pause on Moderna early on though I could be wrong about that. And then there is the VAERS database that has gained attention recently.

It certainly is possible that the Govt or "big pharma" is trying to withhold information but that doesn't seem to be working well.

Agree with everything you said. I just made the same point about the temporary halt on the J&J vaccine.

[Gulfcoast]

Do you honestly believe that if (BIG IF) there were adverse reactions to these vaccines that we are not being informed about, there would be trials vaccinating children and infants? Seriously??? What about when the J&J vaccine roll out was temporarily halted because of concern over blood clots in women? Was that adverse side effect hidden from us?

I don't buy into conspiracy theories.

I have yet to hear a good explanation for why a group of people with a statistically ZERO chance of dying from this virus are being vaccinated in the first place.

Kids in Florida have been back in school since the beginning of the year. If kids were dropping like flies in this state, the media would have had a field day with it. But the reality is that kids are doing fine without a vaccine.

As far as adverse side effects go, there have been plenty of documented side effects including deaths that have occurred shortly after receiving the vaccine. The deaths may or may not be related to the vaccine but, at this point, we don't know for sure if there is link. Why risk the health and safety of kids if they have such a low risk from this virus to begin with?

[coffeebean]

I have yet to hear a good explanation for why a group of people with a statistically ZERO chance of dying from this virus are being vaccinated in the first place.

Kids in Florida have been back in school since the beginning of the year. If kids were dropping like flies in this state, the media would have had a field day with it. But the reality is that kids are doing fine without a vaccine.

As far as adverse side effects go, there have been plenty of documented side effects including deaths that have occurred shortly after receiving the vaccine. The deaths may or may not be related to the vaccine but, at this point, we don't know for sure if there is link. Why risk the health and safety of kids if they have such a low risk from this virus to begin with?

Kids have a low risk of contracting the virus and having severe symptoms. Kids, will however, transmit the virus to others which will perpetuate this pandemic. The more people who are vaccinated, the closer we can reach herd immunity SAFELY. It is all about squelching hosts for this virus to latch onto and mutate and create more variants that the world will have to deal with. Kids need to be vaccinated to assist in our country getting to herd immunity.

Regarding deaths as a direct result of the vaccine, I would imagine there are those who were not able to tolerate just the simplest of routine side effects. The elderly sometimes, so close to death to begin with, could die just from flu like symptoms. The mRNA vaccines have been determined to be extremely safe and I'll continue to keep my trust in them.

[Gulfcoast]

Kids have a low risk of contracting the virus and having severe symptoms. Kids, will however, transmit the virus to others which will perpetuate this pandemic. The more people who are vaccinated, the closer we can reach herd immunity SAFELY. It is all about squelching hosts for this virus to latch onto and mutate and create more variants that the world will have to deal with. Kids need to be vaccinated to assist in our country getting to herd immunity.

Regarding deaths as a direct result of the vaccine, I would imagine there are those who were not able to tolerate just the simplest of routine side effects. The elderly sometimes, so close to death to begin with, could die just from flu like symptoms. The mRNA vaccines have been determined to be extremely safe and I'll continue to keep my trust in them.

You want to see children who have little risk from this virus be vaccinated, not for their own good, but for the good of others? I find that mindset to be a bit alarming.

According to your estimations, people dying from COVID vaccine reactions would be the same people at risk from dying of COVID in the first place. They are a high risk group for a reason - they are old and have health problems.

The reality, however, is that young people in very low risk groups have reported side effects from this vaccine. My own kids are old enough to decide whether or not to get vaccinated all by themselves. But, as a parent, there is no way that I would take them to get vaccinated as i do not think that the vaccine is necessarily in their best interests.

[coffeebean]

You want to see children who have little risk from this virus be vaccinated, not for their own good, but for the good of others? I find that mindset to be a bit alarming.

According to your estimations, people dying from COVID vaccine reactions would be the same people at risk from dying of COVID in the first place. They are a high risk group for a reason - they are old and have health problems.

The reality, however, is that young people in very low risk groups have reported side effects from this vaccine. My own kids are old enough to decide whether or not to get vaccinated all by themselves. But, as a parent, there is no way that I would take them to get vaccinated as i do not think that the vaccine is necessarily in their best interests.

We will never agree about this. Children have shown to have 100% efficacy with this vaccine. Why wouldn't a parent want their child to be protected? It makes zero sense to me that they would prefer to worry that their child may contract Covid and also may suffer long term problems because of having the disease. There is also that phenomenon that children suffer with skin rashing and turning beat red. I don't remember what it is called but is looks nasty as hell. BTW.....children have died of Covid.