Expansion tank replacement

[villagetinker]

Several neighbors as well as myself have had the expansion tank bladders fail, we have all replaced these ourselves, here is basically what is involved.

Lowe's sells 2 of these, one is rated for 1 year warranty and one for 6 year warranty. The 6 year warrant one exactly matches what was installed originally.

1. Turn of power to hot water heater.
2. Turn off water supply to hot water heater.
3. connect a hose to the drain valve of the hot water heater and open the valve to reduce pressure.
4. Using two (2) wrenches remove the existing expansion tank. Keep a towel handy as you will have some leakage.
5. Take a water pressure gauge and measure the pressure at a hose bib.
6. Pre-charge the new expansion tank to that pressure with an air compressor.
7. Apply two layers of Teflon tape to the threads of the new expansion tank.
8. Screw the new tank in place and hand tighten.
9. Using two (2) wrenches tighten the new expansion tank.
10. Turn on the water supply and check for leaks.
11. If you have a small leak try tightening the expansion tank, be sure to use two wrenches against each other.
12. Turn the power back on to the hot water heater.

Hope this helps.

[RICH1]

Perfect......

[champion6]

How did all of you know that the expansion tank bladder failed? Is there a way to test? Are there symptoms that can be observed?

At first I thought step 5 would put a stop to me doing this DIY project -- "Take a water pressure gauge and measure the pressure at a hose bib." Then I remembered that I have water pressure gauges on my NOVA filter system. Bingo!

[DangeloInspections]

Right on V.T....! I just replaced mine the other day. Typically these will last 6-10 years. It is an easy DIY job.

To tell if you need to replace this you can gently tap on the side of it. You should hear a difference in sound as you go up.....there is a rubber bladder inside and kept a "pillow" of air to compensate for varying pressures within your domestic water system. Thus the difference in sound.

If you hear no sound difference, or if water comes out the Schrader valve when checking it, your tank bladder has compromised and the tank should be replaced.

On a side note, if you have not replaced this expansion tank in years and you find yourself paying a plumber to replace an old water tank, you might as well have them do both when you have them there.

Frank D.

[JerryP]

How did all of you know that the expansion tank bladder failed? Is there a way to test? Are there symptoms that can be observed?

At first I thought step 5 would put a stop to me doing this DIY project -- "Take a water pressure gauge and measure the pressure at a hose bib." Then I remembered that I have water pressure gauges on my NOVA filter system. Bingo!

One symptom may be water leaking out of the relief valve.

[retiredguy123]

Several neighbors as well as myself have had the expansion tank bladders fail, we have all replaced these ourselves, here is basically what is involved.

Lowe's sells 2 of these, one is rated for 1 year warranty and one for 6 year warranty. The 6 year warrant one exactly matches what was installed originally.

1. Turn of power to hot water heater.
2. Turn off water supply to hot water heater.
3. connect a hose to the drain valve of the hot water heater and open the valve to reduce pressure.
4. Using two (2) wrenches remove the existing expansion tank. Keep a towel handy as you will have some leakage.
5. Take a water pressure gauge and measure the pressure at a hose bib.
6. Pre-charge the new expansion tank to that pressure with an air compressor.
7. Apply two layers of Teflon tape to the threads of the new expansion tank.
8. Screw the new tank in place and hand tighten.
9. Using two (2) wrenches tighten the new expansion tank.
10. Turn on the water supply and check for leaks.
11. If you have a small leak try tightening the expansion tank, be sure to use two wrenches against each other.
12. Turn the power back on to the hot water heater.

Hope this helps.
Question: Can you skip Step 3 by opening the hot water faucet in the laundry tub next to the water heater? That would eliminate the risk of causing a leak in the drain valve.

[retiredguy123]

One symptom may be water leaking out of the relief valve.
If the relief valve is leaking (not tripping), the valve needs to be replaced. It wouldn't necessarily indicate a defective expansion tank.

[villagetinker]

Question: Can you skip Step 3 by opening the hot water faucet in the laundry tub next to the water heater? That would eliminate the risk of causing a leak in the drain valve.

I guess so, but the drain valve was right there and you are really supposed to drain some water once a year or so, so that is what I used.

[bobeaston]

OK, I'll be the ignorant person today...
Having not yet moved into a TV home, where would one find such expansion tank and what is its purpose?
... (Come to think of it, can I have an expansion bladder installed in myself?)

[dewilson58]

OK, I'll be the ignorant person today...
Having not yet moved into a TV home, where would one find such expansion tank and what is its purpose?
... (Come to think of it, can I have an expansion bladder installed in myself?)

Google is your friend

[noslices1]

How did all of you know that the expansion tank bladder failed? Is there a way to test? Are there symptoms that can be observed?

At first I thought step 5 would put a stop to me doing this DIY project -- "Take a water pressure gauge and measure the pressure at a hose bib." Then I remembered that I have water pressure gauges on my NOVA filter system. Bingo!

If you have the “Push/Pull” plastic water shut offs under your sinks and by your toilets, and occasionally you find one or more turned off and you push it back in to get the water flowing again, it is because of the tank on top of the water heater. Time to replace it, and if your water heater is more than 15 years old, you may want to replace that before you HAVE to replace it.

[Tom52]

Over 40 years I have owned 4 houses previous to moving to TV. None of the hot water systems had an expansion tank installed. I never noticed any variations in water pressure or premature failure of the components. I would think if there was excess pressure build up sufficient to cause damage it would pop the pressure relief valve on the hot water heater. A Google search didn't convince me as to the need of an expansion tank.

[Brad-tv]

I think a big reason so many tanks fail here in the villages is from improper installation. When these tanks are installed the expansion tank pressure is supposed to be set to match or be just below the house pressure. When these tanks are new they are pre set to approximately 40 psi off the shelf. Most homes here average about 60-70 psi or higher. I believe this will shorten the life of the bladder if not set properly prior to installation. We have seen tanks fail anywhere between 3-5 old and they should last 7 years. If I had a tank that was 5 years old and it tested good it would definitely be on my list to change for preventative maintenance.
Also if you have no filter and straight chlorine hitting the rubber bladder that will shorten the life also. The chlorine level in the villages is at 1.5 and this is almost 6 x higher than up north.
Spread the word help your friends and neighbors out hardly anyone knows they have a expansion tank let alone how to test them annually.

Btw it’s Florida code to have one for the last 20 years ( I believe)

[retiredguy123]

Over 40 years I have owned 4 houses previous to moving to TV. None of the hot water systems had an expansion tank installed. I never noticed any variations in water pressure or premature failure of the components. I would think if there was excess pressure build up sufficient to cause damage it would pop the pressure relief valve on the hot water heater. A Google search didn't convince me as to the need of an expansion tank.
Here are some reasons:
1. The expansion tank is required by code
2. A normal water pressure is about 60 psi, and the expansion tank is designed to maintain that pressure level.
3. The relief valve is a safety device that will only trip if the pressure exceeds 150 psi, which is way higher than a normal pressure. These valves often get clogged with calcium deposits and may not function properly over time.
4. Older houses are less likely to experience excessive water pressure because they may have small leaks in the system or may not have a good backflow preventer.
5. If you use all the hot water in the tank, and then shut off every fixture in the house, the tank will be full of cold water which will heat up. As it heats, the water pressure will increase due to expansion which can result in a dangerous pressure level. The expansion tank is designed to allow for the water to expand and keep the pressure down.

[Tom52]

I think a big reason so many tanks fail here in the villages is from improper installation. When these tanks are installed the expansion tank pressure is supposed to be set to match or be just below the house pressure. When these tanks are new they are pre set to approximately 40 psi off the shelf. Most homes here average about 60-70 psi or higher. I believe this will shorten the life of the bladder if not set properly prior to installation. We have seen tanks fail anywhere between 3-5 old and they should last 7 years. If I had a tank that was 5 years old and it tested good it would definitely be on my list to change for preventative maintenance.
Also if you have no filter and straight chlorine hitting the rubber bladder that will shorten the life also. The chlorine level in the villages is at 1.5 and this is almost 6 x higher than up north.
Spread the word help your friends and neighbors out hardly anyone knows they have a expansion tank let alone how to test them annually.

Btw it’s Florida code to have one for the last 20 years ( I believe)

Thanks for the information, so if replacing an expansion tank, should the tank be charged to 60 psi or 40 psi? I don't see an easy way to determine the system pressure to be able to match it in the expansion tank.

[JoelJohnson]

Pipe dope around the threads is also acceptable.

[villagetinker]

Lowe's, Home Depot, and I believe ACE all see water pressure gauges which you can screw on to a hose bib to read your normal house water pressure. Then you may need to borrow an air compressor and a tire gauge. You will find a shrader valve (looks like a tire valve) on the top of the new expansion tank. Connect the compressor tire fill adapter for a few seconds and the check the pressure in the tank until you get to your measured water pressure, then install.

[DangeloInspections]

Thanks for the information, so if replacing an expansion tank, should the tank be charged to 60 psi or 40 psi? I don't see an easy way to determine the system pressure to be able to match it in the expansion tank.

In The Villages your water pressure varies. We check this on every inspection. You can use a pressure gauge on one of your hose bibs.
Most of The Villages around the middle and upper part the water pressure is typically around 50 psi.
In the newer areas, (like Fenney, DeSoto, etc.), it is about 70 psi. In the newest areas, like Bradford, Chitty Chatty, etc it is a bit closer to 60 psi.

Hope this helps!

[PompeyKing]

Good advice, or as I did, call your brother-in-law!!

[Brad-tv]

Thanks for the information, so if replacing an expansion tank, should the tank be charged to 60 psi or 40 psi? I don't see an easy way to determine the system pressure to be able to match it in the expansion tank.


As Frank said you can put a pressure gauge on your hose bib and you can increase the pressure in the expansion tank with a compressor or go down to a gas station and try to match or set just below your house pressure reading.

And if you have someone replace the tank for you make sure they set the tank pressure correct during installation.

[DangeloInspections]

Good advice, or as I did, call your brother-in-law!!. I'm thinking that you are referring to someone else, as I only have one brother in law, who is a fiber optic installer 1300 miles away....lol.

[HJBeck]

I've found it easy to check by turning off the main water supply valve to the house. If the water still runs out of any faucet for 5-10 seconds when you turn one on the expension tank is working.

[Michigan Farmer]

Google is your friend

Tank is located above the hot water heater. There is a bladder inn the middle of the tank, the bottom full of water, the top full of air. If the top sounds solid when you strike it with your finger nail the bladder has failed. If it sounds hollow it's fine. For now.

[Brad-tv]

Tank is located above the hot water heater. There is a bladder inn the middle of the tank, the bottom full of water, the top full of air. If the top sounds solid when you strike it with your finger nail the bladder has failed. If it sounds hollow it's fine. For now.


Sounding hollow is ok but that’s only the first test.
The next step is to take a tire gauge and check the pressure in the tank and make sure it’s close to your house pressure. If the pressure is low or zero the tank needs to be replaced. There is a valve at the top of the tank underneath a cap and you can check the pressure.
If the tank is mounted so close to the ceiling that you can’t get the tire gauge on it then you can’t accurately determine if the tank is functional.
I have seen many hollow sounding tanks that had little or no pressure in them.

I have seen only a small percentage of tanks that tested good after 5 years. Keep in mind if the tank fails (and it will eventually )it can cause damage to your hot water tank, damage to your valves in plumbing fixtures, joints in supply pipes and major leaks.
Check those tanks and replace them if there old!!

[retiredguy123]

As Frank said you can put a pressure gauge on your hose bib and you can increase the pressure in the expansion tank with a compressor or go down to a gas station and try to match or set just below your house pressure reading.

And if you have someone replace the tank for you make sure they set the tank pressure correct during installation.
You can also use a regular bicycle pump to pressurize the expansion tank.

[NoMoSno]

Sounding hollow is ok but that’s only the first test.
The next step is to take a tire gauge and check the pressure in the tank and make sure it’s close to your house pressure. If the pressure is low or zero the tank needs to be replaced. There is a valve at the top of the tank underneath a cap and you can check the pressure.
If the tank is mounted so close to the ceiling that you can’t get the tire gauge on it then you can’t accurately determine if the tank is functional.
I have seen many hollow sounding tanks that had little or no pressure in them.

I have seen only a small percentage of tanks that tested good after 5 years. Keep in mind if the tank fails (and it will eventually )it can cause damage to your hot water tank, damage to your valves in plumbing fixtures, joints in supply pipes and major leaks.
Check those tanks and replace them if there old!!
One of my homes has a 21 year old HW heater.
Never had an expansion tank.
Never had any issues you speak of in 21 years.

[Brad-tv]

Yes
Not all homes have them
In that case they have a Thermal Expansion Valve . I believe around 2000 all homes started using them here in the villages unless you have a tankless water heater. I was told by a local plumbing company here that it’s now Florida Code and all homes require a expansion tank.
So most homes north of 466 do not have expansion tanks. Up north we never had expansion tanks either.

[Brad-tv]

BTW
Thermal expansion valves can fail and can raise the pressure in your pipes also

[dewilson58]

Or call Mike Scott Plumbing.

[davidh0430]

How did you know the Blatter was bad? I have a slight noise in the master bathroom when the water is running anywhere in the house. Dave

[villagetinker]

How did you know the Blatter was bad? I have a slight noise in the master bathroom when the water is running anywhere in the house. Dave

Please read through all of the replies, there were several suggestions to determine if the expansion tank has failed.

[Topspinmo]

Over 40 years I have owned 4 houses previous to moving to TV. None of the hot water systems had an expansion tank installed. I never noticed any variations in water pressure or premature failure of the components. I would think if there was excess pressure build up sufficient to cause damage it would pop the pressure relief valve on the hot water heater. A Google search didn't convince me as to the need of an expansion tank.

It’s Southern thing and well water thing. Only time I seen expansion takes used was on well water until I got down here.

[retiredguy123]

It’s Southern thing and well water thing. Only time I seen expansion takes used was on well water until I got down here.
Expansion tanks are required by almost all plumbing codes where the water system is a closed system with a backflow preventer. It's pretty much a universal requirement. Not just in the South.

[JP]

Expansion tanks are unnecessary and the reasons for them are silly code or not.

[Topspinmo]

Expansion tanks are required by almost all plumbing codes where the water system is a closed system with a backflow preventer. It's pretty much a universal requirement. Not just in the South.

Not where I’ve been.

[elevatorman]

Around 1985 Municipalities (water companies) started installing water meters with back flow preventers in new homes. This was done to prevent contamination of the Municipal water supply. Doing this created a closed system for each home with this type of meter. Prior to this the excess pressure would not build in your home, the excess pressure would go into the entire Municipal system. Now it can't get past the water meter. So now it builds in your home. Then the water is turned on and the pressure is relieved. Water off pressure builds again. Plumbing systems are built to withstand this. So what's the big deal? The problem is not with the pipes in the system, but with the weak points, the hoses and plastic tubing. ie. washing machine, ice maker supply line, toilet supply. Constant expansion and contraction will weaken them until they burst. This is why I believe in expansion tanks.

[retiredguy123]

About 12 years ago, I had an old water heater replaced in Virginia without an expansion tank. Within a few days, I noticed a small amount of water in the drain pan. It was because the new relief valve was occasionally tripping and releasing water. That means that the water pressure was exceeding 150 psi. The contractor said that the relief valve on the old water heater was totally clogged with sediment, so it did not function at all. The contractor installed an expansion tank, and I never had the problem again.