Impact Fees: Did Sumter County Residents Win the Battle but Lose the War???

[Advogado]

The Landslide Vote to Roll Back the Property-Tax Increase by Increasing Impact Fees. The subject of impact fees and property taxes is complex and not very sexy. However, the combination of a sweetheart impact fee for the Developer and higher property taxes for Sumter County residents to pay for the Developer's county roads and other infrastructure results in each of us giving the Developer an annual gift of hundreds of dollars. The residents woke up to that fact last year. We tossed out three developer puppet Commissioners (Butler, Burgess, and Printz) and elected County Commissioners Estep, Miller, and Search (the “EMS team”) in a landslide, resulting in the EMS team having a majority on the 5-member Commission.

That landslide occurred because of the EMS team's campaign promise to roll back the massive 25% property-tax hike. That tax hike had been enacted, in 2019, by the Developer's puppet Commissioners, in order to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee (which is about 5% of what he would be required to pay in Collier County, where developers don't control the County Commission). The EMS team proposed to roll back the tax hike by requiring the Developer to finally start paying for the County infrastructure necessitated by the massive expansion of The Villages, instead of continuing to offload that cost on to the current residents. In other words, the impact-fee increase would finance the property-tax rollback.

The Developer's Frustrating the Will of the Residents. It now looks like the Developer may have been successful in frustrating the will of Sumter County residents, thereby potentially saving himself hundreds of millions of dollars at our expense. The Developer's apparent success was accomplished via the following actions:
Lobbying. Successfully convincing Commissioners Estep and Search not to immediately push forward with their promise to increase impact fees and reduce property-taxes. (Commissioner Miller stood his ground.) The delay gave the Developer time to marshal his campaign to preserve his sweetheart impact fee.
Propaganda Campaign. A propaganda campaign in the Developer's Daily Sun to distort the facts, attack the EMS team, and oppose the impact-fee increase-- falsely labeling it as a “tax increase”, rather than as a tax shifting from current residents to the Developer. The Daily Sun's propaganda campaign has been abetted by the little group of Developer loyalists who still control the local Republican Party. They have launched a series of personal attacks on fellow Republicans Estep, Miller, and Search-- despite the fact that we rank-and-file Republicans overwhelming voted for those three.
Packing Commission Meetings. Packing the County Commission meetings with employees of his suppliers and with his other cohorts and filling the parking lot with their heavy equipment.
State Legislation Co-sponsored by an Employee of the Developer. Finally, playing his ace in the hole by having the Florida legislature pass statewide legislation (co-sponsored by the Developer's employee-legislator, Brett Hage) that handcuffs local governments that attempt to require developers to pay for their own infrastructure. The legislation was unsuccessfully opposed by the League of Florida Cities and the Florida Association of Counties because it will devastate local governments' ability to finance new schools, police and fire facilities, parks, libraries, sewers, etc. However, cities and counties don't make campaign contributions. Developers make big ones. For more details, click here: FL legislators bigfoot local government to benefit big-money developers | Florida Phoenix (https://www.floridaphoenix.com/2021/03/25/fl-legislators-bigfoot-local-government-to-benefit-big-money-developers/)

The Angeliadis Fishing Expedition. Those actions by the Developer were supplemented by a public-records-request fishing expedition conducted by attorney George Angeliadis. That fishing expedition was obviously intended to try to turn up dirt on, and harass and intimidate, Estep, Miller, and Search--as well as their supporters. The fishing expedition failed to turn up any dirt because there is no dirt to turn up. Angeliadis still refuses to identify his well-heeled client who paid him for his efforts, and the remaining two Developer-puppet Commissioners (Gilpin and Breeden) refuse to reveal what they know about it. Could the mysterious client possibly be the Developer? For a video on the fishing expedition, click here: George Angeliadis Open Records Request - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N7mNEwvBYk&t=13s)

So, Did the Residents Win the Battle but Lose the War? The residents of Sumter County clearly won the first battle by tossing out three of the Developer's puppet Commissioners in the last election. However, as a result of the Developer's actions, culminating in the new state legislation, it certainly looks like we, along with other residents throughout the whole state, have lost the war to roll back our tax increase. But next year, the remaining two Developer puppet Commissioners are up for re-election, as is the Developer's employee, State Representative Brett Hage. Maybe the war isn't over yet.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

This one part here:
Finally, playing his ace in the hole by having the Florida legislature pass statewide legislation (co-sponsored by the Developer's employee-legislator, Brett Hage) that handcuffs local governments that attempt to require developers to pay for their own infrastructure.

They're not entirely handcuffed. They have options. They can reject permits. They can change zoning requirements, and then reject a developer's plans based on new zoning requirements that forbid whatever it is they're trying to do. They can reject any request for exceptions or setbacks. They can tell them "sure, you can built this and that and the other thing. And no, we can't make you pay for the road leading to it, or the retention ponds needed to keep it from flooding. But - WE aren't going to pay for that either. Oh and by the way, we also now require sidewalks, which we will also not pay for."

[Stu from NYC]

I believe the impact fee the developer pays can be raised each year so if this is done will bring up the amount in a few years.

[Papa_lecki]

And the developer could raise the rent on the millions of sq feet of commercial real estate it owns and rents - which will mean the tenants will raise their prices.

I don’t think a 25% real estate increase makes sense either.

[Bogie Shooter]

Next, vote out the EMS team.

[Stu from NYC]

Next, vote out the EMS team.

I suspect the last two puppets go next.

[eyc234]

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."
The giant wanted to negotiate and it was slapped in the face. Like it or not, it is the way things work and if you do not believe it you are naive. Look at any stadium built for a sports team and you see what happens. Negotiation gets you some of what you want and trying to slap your adversary down can get you an ass whopping. I do not agree or totally disagree with the process but understand the process and how to best work in and around it. Obviously the new guys do not understand or want to get the best for the constituents they are suppose to represent. As many have said, still waiting on the 25% rollback they promised!! No answer to this question every time it is asked.

[Advogado]

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."
The giant wanted to negotiate and it was slapped in the face. Like it or not, it is the way things work and if you do not believe it you are naive. Look at any stadium built for a sports team and you see what happens. Negotiation gets you some of what you want and trying to slap your adversary down can get you an ass whopping. I do not agree or totally disagree with the process but understand the process and how to best work in and around it. Obviously the new guys do not understand or want to get the best for the constituents they are suppose to represent. As many have said, still waiting on the 25% rollback they promised!! No answer to this question every time it is asked.

I think that my original post answers your question.

As explained in detail in that post and, as was made clear in the last election campaign, the property-tax rollback can only happen if there is a corresponding increase in the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. (The revenue to pay for County infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages has to come from somewhere.) It now appears that the Developer has been successful in preventing that impact-fee increase from occurring. Ergo, it appears that, because of the Developer's actions and despite the overwhelming vote of Sumter County residents, a property-tax rollback is NOT going to occur-- at least not in the immediate future.

Developer: 1 Current Residents: 0

Remember, every time that you pay your property tax, you are, in essence, writing a check to the Developer in the amount of your tax increase. This is because you are paying for roads and other county infrastructure that he should be paying for via a reasonable impact fee.

[Advogado]

I believe the impact fee the developer pays can be raised each year so if this is done will bring up the amount in a few years.

The limits and restrictions prevent a significant increase in impact fees, which is why cities and counties opposed the House and Senate bills and why the developers pushed it.

[Northwoods]

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."
The giant wanted to negotiate and it was slapped in the face. Like it or not, it is the way things work and if you do not believe it you are naive. Look at any stadium built for a sports team and you see what happens. Negotiation gets you some of what you want and trying to slap your adversary down can get you an ass whopping. I do not agree or totally disagree with the process but understand the process and how to best work in and around it. Obviously the new guys do not understand or want to get the best for the constituents they are suppose to represent. As many have said, still waiting on the 25% rollback they promised!! No answer to this question every time it is asked.

I agree with you. The Developer offered 40% Impact Fees. I feel the commissioners should have tried to negotiate. Maybe they could have gotten a better deal. We will never know. The new commissioners ran on a "stick it to the Developer" platform, so they could never try to negotiate. It would have been viewed as "giving in" even if it would have been a better outcome for Sumter residents.

The new commissioners have to realize The Developer is a very wealthy adversary that has a lot of "assets/connections" at his disposal. So figure out how to work with him so each side can feel good about the outcome. If they continue to try to stick it to The Developer I believe it will be Sumter residents (specifically Villagers) that will suffer.

[Northwoods]

I think that my original post answers your question.

As explained in detail in that post and, as was made clear in the last election campaign, the property-tax rollback can only happen if there is a corresponding increase in the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. (The revenue to pay for County infrastructure necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages has to come from somewhere.) It now appears that the Developer has been successful in preventing that impact-fee increase from occurring. Ergo, it appears that, because of the Developer's actions and despite the overwhelming vote of Sumter County residents, a property-tax rollback is NOT going to occur-- at least not in the immediate future.

Developer: 1 Current Residents: 0

Remember, every time that you pay your property tax, you are, in essence, writing a check to the Developer in the amount of your tax increase. This is because you are paying for roads and other county infrastructure that he should be paying for via a reasonable impact fee.

I guess my view is: Developer 1 Commissioners: 0

You have to know your adversary. It's like playing against the Patriots (and trust me... I hate the Patriots so I'm only using that analogy because they have dominated football in recent history), You can either bury your head in the sand and whine because you lost... or you can understand what you are up against and realize you have a formidable foe.

As you said... Developer 1. So commissioners have to figure out how to win in this environment. Whining that the adversary is bigger or stronger probably isn't going to work in the long term.

[merrymini]

Getting the three out was good. Replacing them with these guys doesn’t look so hot. Costs have to go up over time but the 25 percent increase all at once was stupid. If they were stupid in this judgement made, could they be just as stupid making others judgements? May be this pendulum will swing back to the middle but only if we can vote for people who are committed to doing so. By the way, these jobs are not as easy as you might think and there are rules to play by.

[DIver0258]

This one part here:


They're not entirely handcuffed. They have options. They can reject permits. They can change zoning requirements, and then reject a developer's plans based on new zoning requirements that forbid whatever it is they're trying to do. They can reject any request for exceptions or setbacks. They can tell them "sure, you can built this and that and the other thing. And no, we can't make you pay for the road leading to it, or the retention ponds needed to keep it from flooding. But - WE aren't going to pay for that either. Oh and by the way, we also now require sidewalks, which we will also not pay for."

The legislation signed by the governor does limit impact fee annual increases but allows counties when meeting certain criteria to raise impact fees above the limits of the law.

To invoke cost prohibitive requirements of developers with the actions quoted is non productive and childlike. Such actions will create a legal nightmare for the county. Once precedents are set, (sidewalks, setbacks, roads, etc...) this will be have to be applied forward to all development in the county.

New tax revenue resulting from 2500+ new homes built by The Villages will be a huge revenue stream for Sumter County. Not to mention the additional tax revenue from the commercial development that supports the growth. These revenue streams will continue to provide funds for the county coffers annually at an ever increasing amount. A 50 million investment in road infrastructure will create a huge return in years to come.

A common sense perspective was to negotiate the impact fee deal offered by The Villages and move forward. Since our commission decided that was not in their constituants best interest, they now must work with in the new law to make any progress on impact fees.

It is better to work for the best interests of all parties involved, keeping focus on the issue at hand, lowering property taxes.

Hopefully our commission has learned from this experience and will be able to proceed better equipped to address similar situations in the future.

When decisions are made from a personal agenda instead of a professional agenda the end result falls far short of the mark.

[Billy1]

Stop the excuses, EMS, and roll back the 25% tax increase like you promised. Stop listening to your controllers and work for the people. I never believed the three of you and didn't vote for you.

[airdale2]

QUOTE=Stu from NYC;1947283]I believe the impact fee the developer pays can be raised each year so if this is done will bring up the amount in a few years.[/QUOTE]

Do the math, Lake county fees run about $12,000 while Sumpter County is about $2,000
Most villagers will not live long enough to see it balance out at the rate of 3 percent per year.

[Altavia]

Continued half truths and misrepresentations reposted from Mr. Scott Fenstermaker V-N article.

The other side of the story as summarized previously by Mr. Don Wiley:

“ Continuing to portray the 40% number as a "sweetheart deal" that somehow only The Villages developer is getting is both dishonest and neglects the rest of the facts of the situation.

As far as the road costs that were a part of the 2019 25% tax increase, the majority of that was for resurfacing of Morse and Buena Vista Blvds and the result of poor planning by the county, a failure to put money away for repair costs they knew were coming. They were too busy touting "no tax increase for 14 years" to take care of business. The real question one has to ask but nobody is (except me) is what happened the next year. The road resurfacing was a one-time cost and represented about 50% of the tax increase, we should have seen a 10-12% decrease in 2020 but didn't. Why you may ask. Because for 2020 every department in the county fattened up their budgets with 10 to 20% increases. Of course, you can't see these increase in the 2020 budgets because they only forward when they present the budgets, they don't show how much it increased from the previous year. To see this, you have to pull the 2019 budget proposals and painstakingly compare it line item by line item to the 2020 budget, only then does the truth of the mismanagement of the county come to light.“

[wirenail444]

The Landslide Vote to Roll Back the Property-Tax Increase by Increasing Impact Fees. The subject of impact fees and property taxes is complex and not very sexy. However, the combination of a sweetheart impact fee for the Developer and higher property taxes for Sumter County residents to pay for the Developer's county roads and other infrastructure results in each of us giving the Developer an annual gift of hundreds of dollars. The residents woke up to that fact last year. We tossed out three developer puppet Commissioners (Butler, Burgess, and Printz) and elected County Commissioners Estep, Miller, and Search (the “EMS team”) in a landslide, resulting in the EMS team having a majority on the 5-member Commission.

That landslide occurred because of the EMS team's campaign promise to roll back the massive 25% property-tax hike. That tax hike had been enacted, in 2019, by the Developer's puppet Commissioners, in order to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee (which is about 5% of what he would be required to pay in Collier County, where developers don't control the County Commission). The EMS team proposed to roll back the tax hike by requiring the Developer to finally start paying for the County infrastructure necessitated by the massive expansion of The Villages, instead of continuing to offload that cost on to the current residents. In other words, the impact-fee increase would finance the property-tax rollback.

The Developer's Frustrating the Will of the Residents. It now looks like the Developer may have been successful in frustrating the will of Sumter County residents, thereby potentially saving himself hundreds of millions of dollars at our expense. The Developer's apparent success was accomplished via the following actions:
Lobbying. Successfully convincing Commissioners Estep and Search not to immediately push forward with their promise to increase impact fees and reduce property-taxes. (Commissioner Miller stood his ground.) The delay gave the Developer time to marshal his campaign to preserve his sweetheart impact fee.
Propaganda Campaign. A propaganda campaign in the Developer's Daily Sun to distort the facts, attack the EMS team, and oppose the impact-fee increase-- falsely labeling it as a “tax increase”, rather than as a tax shifting from current residents to the Developer. The Daily Sun's propaganda campaign has been abetted by the little group of Developer loyalists who still control the local Republican Party. They have launched a series of personal attacks on fellow Republicans Estep, Miller, and Search-- despite the fact that we rank-and-file Republicans overwhelming voted for those three.
Packing Commission Meetings. Packing the County Commission meetings with employees of his suppliers and with his other cohorts and filling the parking lot with their heavy equipment.
State Legislation Co-sponsored by an Employee of the Developer. Finally, playing his ace in the hole by having the Florida legislature pass statewide legislation (co-sponsored by the Developer's employee-legislator, Brett Hage) that handcuffs local governments that attempt to require developers to pay for their own infrastructure. The legislation was unsuccessfully opposed by the League of Florida Cities and the Florida Association of Counties because it will devastate local governments' ability to finance new schools, police and fire facilities, parks, libraries, sewers, etc. However, cities and counties don't make campaign contributions. Developers make big ones. For more details, click here: FL legislators bigfoot local government to benefit big-money developers | Florida Phoenix (https://www.floridaphoenix.com/2021/03/25/fl-legislators-bigfoot-local-government-to-benefit-big-money-developers/)

The Angeliadis Fishing Expedition. Those actions by the Developer were supplemented by a public-records-request fishing expedition conducted by attorney George Angeliadis. That fishing expedition was obviously intended to try to turn up dirt on, and harass and intimidate, Estep, Miller, and Search--as well as their supporters. The fishing expedition failed to turn up any dirt because there is no dirt to turn up. Angeliadis still refuses to identify his well-heeled client who paid him for his efforts, and the remaining two Developer-puppet Commissioners (Gilpin and Breeden) refuse to reveal what they know about it. Could the mysterious client possibly be the Developer? For a video on the fishing expedition, click here: George Angeliadis Open Records Request - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N7mNEwvBYk&t=13s)

So, Did the Residents Win the Battle but Lose the War? The residents of Sumter County clearly won the first battle by tossing out three of the Developer's puppet Commissioners in the last election. However, as a result of the Developer's actions, culminating in the new state legislation, it certainly looks like we, along with other residents throughout the whole state, have lost the war to roll back our tax increase. But next year, the remaining two Developer puppet Commissioners are up for re-election, as is the Developer's employee, State Representative Brett Hage. Maybe the war isn't over yet.
This is an excellent description of the county council issues over the last few years. The developer will continue to distort the facts and attract the new commissioners because they are a threat to his sweetheart deal he had with the original five commissioners. Maybe someone should investigate the original five to see what kick backs or other rewards were received for their votes. The no bid contract the developer has to build the roads at county expense might be a place to start. Remember, we still have to get rid of the two remaining "developer commissioners" with the next election. The developer will spend the rest of this year spreading misleading and false stories about the EMS commissioners through the Daily Sun in an effort to defeat them and continue his raping of the citizens of Sumter County.

[Villages Kahuna]

If the county can’t raise impact fees on further Developer-proposed commercial and residential expansion to the south, then without increased property taxes, there would be no way Sumter County could build the roads and infrastructure necessary for the proposed new development.

If the Developer decides not to pay for the roads to service his development as he has in the past, then it follows that the pace of development to the south will slow, maybe dramatically.

So how much will that effect residents who live 10-15 miles north of the new planned expansion of The Villages? That would include me and the answer is not much at all. In fact, if further construction to the south stopped immediately, that might be a ‘positive’ result on our community which many of us think has gotten way too big, way too fast.

What do you think?

[njbchbum]

If the county can’t raise impact fees on further Developer-proposed commercial and residential expansion to the south, then without increased property taxes, there would be no way Sumter County could build the roads and infrastructure necessary for the proposed new development.

If the Developer decides not to pay for the roads to service his development as he has in the past, then it follows that the pace of development to the south will slow, maybe dramatically.

So how much will that effect residents who live 10-15 miles north of the new planned expansion of The Villages? That would include me and the answer is not much at all. In fact, if further construction to the south stopped immediately, that might be a ‘positive’ result on our community which many of us think has gotten way too big, way too fast.

What do you think?

If expansion/growth becomes limited - where will the increased cost of govt operations fall without it being shared with the new development - on existing residents and businesses? Will that not mean property tax increases? Maybe those residents in the Southern areas would prefer higher taxes if it meant lower building impact? But not so for the rest of the County!

[diva1]

Billy1, you aren't following the thread. The tax rollback would be made possible by the increase in impact fees. It takes $X to run the county...now you can get them in multiple ways like lowering this and upping that in an equal amount, but you still have to come up to $X. EMS was going to make that adjustment...and tried to. That got TV to pull their strings in Tallahassee and frustrated the process. Gads, give them more than 6 months to figure this all out. They are a FAR better alternative than TV hacks that were there. We just need to replace 2 more. These guys are trying...and no one more than Miller!

[VApeople]

In fact, if further construction to the south stopped immediately, that might be a ‘positive’ result on our community which many of us think has gotten way too big, way too fast.

What do you think?

I think the new development south of Route 44 has helped us enjoy life much more.

We live in Osceola Hills just north of Route 44 but we go down to the Southern Area a lot to enjoy their many amenities.

For example, on Tuesday we went down to Marsh Bend and parked at Cattail Rec Center. My wife went for a 2.5 mile walk around Hogeye and I played 9 holes of golf at Marshview. We finished at about the same time. Afterwards we sat in the shade at Edna's, shared a beer and a coke, and listened to some music. Life is good.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

And the developer could raise the rent on the millions of sq feet of commercial real estate it owns and rents - which will mean the tenants will raise their prices.

I don’t think a 25% real estate increase makes sense either.

The tenants will only raise their prices as high as the customers are willing to pay. Eventually, the tenants will say "mmm....nah" and either go out of business, or open up outside Villages Holding Co's domain, where they can get the same customer base for less.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The legislation signed by the governor does limit impact fee annual increases but allows counties when meeting certain criteria to raise impact fees above the limits of the law.

To invoke cost prohibitive requirements of developers with the actions quoted is non productive and childlike. Such actions will create a legal nightmare for the county. Once precedents are set, (sidewalks, setbacks, roads, etc...) this will be have to be applied forward to all development in the county.

New tax revenue resulting from 2500+ new homes built by The Villages will be a huge revenue stream for Sumter County. Not to mention the additional tax revenue from the commercial development that supports the growth. These revenue streams will continue to provide funds for the county coffers annually at an ever increasing amount. A 50 million investment in road infrastructure will create a huge return in years to come.

A common sense perspective was to negotiate the impact fee deal offered by The Villages and move forward. Since our commission decided that was not in their constituants best interest, they now must work with in the new law to make any progress on impact fees.

It is better to work for the best interests of all parties involved, keeping focus on the issue at hand, lowering property taxes.

Hopefully our commission has learned from this experience and will be able to proceed better equipped to address similar situations in the future.

When decisions are made from a personal agenda instead of a professional agenda the end result falls far short of the mark.

Where I come from, a town government doesn't "negotiate" bond fees with developers. The town has a specific structure and schedule of fees, and if you want to develop in that town, you pay those fees. If you're not willing to pay them, you develop somewhere else.

This problem exists because the county and the developer share some of the same people, and there is a conflict of interest creating the opportunity for negotiating, where none should exist.

The County is at an advantage. The Developer already owns the property - so they're stuck with it, whether everything they want is approved or rejected. They are paying taxes on it either way. They can either pay the fees, or they can not build, and still pay taxes on unused land. That is how it SHOULD be. But that's not how it is, down here. Instead, everyone is playing politics, because the state is set up to accommodate politics.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The other side of the story as summarized previously by Mr. Don Wiley:

“
Of course, you can't see these increase in the 2020 budgets because they only forward when they present the budgets, they don't show how much it increased from the previous year. To see this, you have to pull the 2019 budget proposals and painstakingly compare it line item by line item to the 2020 budget, only then does the truth of the mismanagement of the county come to light.“

Is that true? I haven't checked, but maybe someone else already keeps up with this and can just tell us here. There's no legal announcement of proposed budgets showing comparisons between current budget and proposed for the following year, line by line (or at LEAST department by department with a *footnote explaining the change)?

How are voters supposed to know WHAT they like and don't like about the current representatives, if they aren't even presented with the full budget comparison from year to year? If my board of education wants more money, I should be able to see on a line in the Bd of Ed budget sheet what the exact increase is, the percentage difference over the previous year, and which thing(s) is/are increasing. If it's office supplies increasing by 10%, I should be able to see that right there in the proposed budget. If the county's total contribution to all participating teachers' 401K plan is increasing by 1%, I should be able to see that. If they need an additional 4% to cover the insurance company's requirement of a buffer for the roof fund, I should be able to see that.

Without having to go to the previous year's line-item budget and compare with the current or the proposed.

That should be columnized.

[dewilson58]

Impact Fee threads are always entertaining.

The Three ran on one thing and only one thing......Increase Impact Fees & Reverse the 25% Property Tax Increase. Day One, they decided to pick a fight. Problem: they came to a gun fight with a knife. No plan, No experience, No knowledge. Doomed to fail prior to getting elected. The Three got an education and got their a**es kicked.

Unfortunately, Villagers didn't stop and realize The Three had No plan, No experience, No knowledge and voted for a guaranteed failure. Empty campaign promises.

Thanks for the entertainment. :coolsmiley:

[stan the man]

Continued half truths and misrepresentations reposted from Mr. Scott Fenstermaker V-N article.

The other side of the story as summarized previously by Mr. Don Wiley:

“ Continuing to portray the 40% number as a "sweetheart deal" that somehow only The Villages developer is getting is both dishonest and neglects the rest of the facts of the situation.

As far as the road costs that were a part of the 2019 25% tax increase, the majority of that was for resurfacing of Morse and Buena Vista Blvds and the result of poor planning by the county, a failure to put money away for repair costs they knew were coming. They were too busy touting "no tax increase for 14 years" to take care of business. The real question one has to ask but nobody is (except me) is what happened the next year. The road resurfacing was a one-time cost and represented about 50% of the tax increase, we should have seen a 10-12% decrease in 2020 but didn't. Why you may ask. Because for 2020 every department in the county fattened up their budgets with 10 to 20% increases. Of course, you can't see these increase in the 2020 budgets because they only forward when they present the budgets, they don't show how much it increased from the previous year. To see this, you have to pull the 2019 budget proposals and painstakingly compare it line item by line item to the 2020 budget, only then does the truth of the mismanagement of the county come to light.“

Where did all the additional taxes collected from new residents go ??

[john352]

Next, vote out the EMS team.

When you vote someone "Out". You are voting someone in, who could be a total puppet of the developer.

[tophcfa]

The tenants will only raise their prices as high as the customers are willing to pay. Eventually, the tenants will say "mmm....nah" and either go out of business, or open up outside Villages Holding Co's domain, where they can get the same customer base for less.

Take away golf cart access and the customer base is seriously reduced.

[EviesGP]

Impact Fee threads are always entertaining.

The Three ran on one thing and only one thing......Increase Impact Fees & Reverse the 25% Property Tax Increase. Day One, they decided to pick a fight. Problem: they came to a gun fight with a knife. No plan, No experience, No knowledge. Doomed to fail prior to getting elected. The Three got an education and got their a**es kicked.

Unfortunately, Villagers didn't stop and realize The Three had No plan, No experience, No knowledge and voted for a guaranteed failure. Empty campaign promises.

Thanks for the entertainment. :coolsmiley:

I don't think the entertainment has ended? I think there are legal considerations under way, in respect to this new state legislation. And TV isn't alone in this, as I think there are other local municipalities considering challenges to this.

The Impact Fees issue was only a part of the 25% tax increase, so I don't think a complete rollback was ever promised. HOWEVER, with all the propaganda being spewed about how perilous this Impact Fee(being sold as a Tax Increase) would do to the local economy, I now feel the Commissioners should COMPLETELY remove the 25% increase, restoring/resetting all budgets to pre-2019 levels, then start over! THEN, we'll see what all these expert economists say(i.e. The Daily Rag), when they have to come back to the well for more money(i.e. tax increase)?!!!

[kappy]

IMHO, the three new Commissioners began to enact their campaign promise by raising the impact fees. Unfortunately, and I don’t see how anyone could have expected 67 counties in Florida to relinquish one of their powers to collect fees, the developer and developers all over Florida were able to pass a law retroactively to undo the county’s laws. Our recourse in Sumter County should be to vote out of office the two Commissioners up for election in 2022 along with State Senator Baxley and State Representative Hage.

[stan the man]

Take away golf cart access and the customer base is seriously reduced.

Sams, Home Depot, Best Buy all seem to be doing well despite the KIng and his court fighting no golf cart access but carts can cross 472.

[james robertson]

Impact fees can only be used to finance road construction or improvement. Why not have the limit apply in both directions, and limit expenditures for these same items to the road development fees collected?

[Dond1959]

If the county can’t raise impact fees on further Developer-proposed commercial and residential expansion to the south, then without increased property taxes, there would be no way Sumter County could build the roads and infrastructure necessary for the proposed new development.

If the Developer decides not to pay for the roads to service his development as he has in the past, then it follows that the pace of development to the south will slow, maybe dramatically.

So how much will that effect residents who live 10-15 miles north of the new planned expansion of The Villages? That would include me and the answer is not much at all. In fact, if further construction to the south stopped immediately, that might be a ‘positive’ result on our community which many of us think has gotten way too big, way too fast.

What do you think?

The issue with stopping growth is you will create a significant level of unemployment to thousands and thousands of people who work for the developer or people and companies that support the developer. This will impact the entire county because of revenue shortfalls leading to raised property taxes not to mention the suffering of families of the unemployed.

I wish people would read Don Wileys comments about impact fees and watch his videos. He has done the research and can explain how it works. Basically, if you raise impact fees Sumter county will lose some of our gas tax revenue generated by the thousands and thousands of vehicles that drive the turnpike and 75 and stop for gas in our county. Don can explain it much better, but it isn’t as simple as raising impact fees and getting that amount back in a property tax reduction. Don commented about this a few weeks ago in another of the endless posts about impact fees.

[Bogie Shooter]

When you vote someone "Out". You are voting someone in, who could be a total puppet of the developer.

Or someone who knows what they are doing.

[justjim]

I guess my view is: Developer 1 Commissioners: 0

You have to know your adversary. It's like playing against the Patriots (and trust me... I hate the Patriots so I'm only using that analogy because they have dominated football in recent history), You can either bury your head in the sand and whine because you lost... or you can understand what you are up against and realize you have a formidable foe.

As you said... Developer 1. So commissioners have to figure out how to win in this environment. Whining that the adversary is bigger or stronger probably isn't going to work in the long term.

Your post makes a lot of sense. Politics isn’t rational... :clap2:}

[Altavia]

If the
]

. In fact, if further construction to the south stopped immediately, that might be a ‘positive’ result on our community which many of us think has gotten way too big, way too fast.

What do you think?

20,000 hard working, tax paying development employees, contractors and construction workers would lose their jobs...

[Stu from NYC]

20,000 hard working, tax paying development employees, contractors and construction workers would lose their jobs...

That many? Seems like to high a figure

[eyc234]

The issue with stopping growth is you will create a significant level of unemployment to thousands and thousands of people who work for the developer or people and companies that support the developer. This will impact the entire county because of revenue shortfalls leading to raised property taxes not to mention the suffering of families of the unemployed.

I wish people would read Don Wileys comments about impact fees and watch his videos. He has done the research and can explain how it works. Basically, if you raise impact fees Sumter county will lose some of our gas tax revenue generated by the thousands and thousands of vehicles that drive the turnpike and 75 and stop for gas in our county. Don can explain it much better, but it isn’t as simple as raising impact fees and getting that amount back in a property tax reduction. Don commented about this a few weeks ago in another of the endless posts about impact fees.

:a040::a040: Dond great post of what the majority of people miss, there are multiple sides to a problem and most things are interconnected to something else. In our world there are few things that are black and white.

[TomPerry]

Impact Fee threads are always entertaining.

The Three ran on one thing and only one thing......Increase Impact Fees & Reverse the 25% Property Tax Increase. Day One, they decided to pick a fight. Problem: they came to a gun fight with a knife. No plan, No experience, No knowledge. Doomed to fail prior to getting elected. The Three got an education and got their a**es kicked.

Unfortunately, Villagers didn't stop and realize The Three had No plan, No experience, No knowledge and voted for a guaranteed failure. Empty campaign promises.

Thanks for the entertainment. :coolsmiley:
How very true!! Could the OP, the Three Amigos and their supporters PLEASE cite the legal authority that permits funds raised from Impact Fees to be used to lower the General Budget of the County in order to Refund the 25% Real Estate Tax Increase? I bet they cannot!!! They didn’t even bring a knife to the fight!!!

[JoMar]

Or someone who knows what they are doing.

Why, they didn't do it in the last election....voted out three guys and put in three with no experience, knowledge or ability. When you vote with emotions it's what you get.

[Altavia]

That many? Seems like to high a figure

You need to take a tour doing construction in the new areas.

[Stu from NYC]

You need to take a tour doing construction in the new areas.

Actually I had and saw quite a few cars and workers but not thousands of them.

[Northwoods]

The issue with stopping growth is you will create a significant level of unemployment to thousands and thousands of people who work for the developer or people and companies that support the developer. This will impact the entire county because of revenue shortfalls leading to raised property taxes not to mention the suffering of families of the unemployed.

I wish people would read Don Wileys comments about impact fees and watch his videos. He has done the research and can explain how it works. Basically, if you raise impact fees Sumter county will lose some of our gas tax revenue generated by the thousands and thousands of vehicles that drive the turnpike and 75 and stop for gas in our county. Don can explain it much better, but it isn’t as simple as raising impact fees and getting that amount back in a property tax reduction. Don commented about this a few weeks ago in another of the endless posts about impact fees.

I 100% agree with you. I think many people see Don (Goldwingnut) as a knowledgeable, thoughtful commentator about The Villages.
Well, here’s what “Shelter Reform for Sumter County”. ( Angie Fox - Oren Miller’s wife is admin) says about Don...
“Don Wiley speaks for The Villages. He says he doesn’t but he does.”
“Don and The Developer are lying.”
So... those of you who appreciate Don’s perspective should know Oren’s wife feel’s Don is a spokesperson for The Villages.
Personally. I don’t think that’s true at all. I think Don gives his perspective as he sees it. And I think he tried very hard to be objective.

[Altavia]

I 100% agree with you. I think many people see Don (Goldwingnut) as a knowledgeable, thoughtful commentator about The Villages.
Well, here’s what “Shelter Reform for Sumter County”. ( Angie Fox - Oren Miller’s wife is admin) says about Don...
“Don Wiley speaks for The Villages. He says he doesn’t but he does.”
“Don and The Developer are lying.”
So... those of you who appreciate Don’s perspective should know Oren’s wife feel’s Don is a spokesperson for The Villages.
Personally. I don’t think that’s true at all. I think Don gives his perspective as he sees it. And I think he tried very hard to be objective.

Very interesting...

There has been no response to the actual budget showing:

Not a dime of the increase was used to develop new county roads.

The majority of the increase was used for resurfacing of Morse and Buena Vista Blvds.

The road resurfacing was a one-time cost and represented about 50% of the tax increase, we should have seen a 10-12% decrease the following year.

For 2020, every department in the county increased their budgets with 10 to 20% increases.

Impact fees can still be increased. Only the rate of increase has been limited.

[Goldwingnut]

I 100% agree with you. I think many people see Don (Goldwingnut) as a knowledgeable, thoughtful commentator about The Villages.
Well, here’s what “Shelter Reform for Sumter County”. ( Angie Fox - Oren Miller’s wife is admin) says about Don...
“Don Wiley speaks for The Villages. He says he doesn’t but he does.”
“Don and The Developer are lying.”
So... those of you who appreciate Don’s perspective should know Oren’s wife feel’s Don is a spokesperson for The Villages.
Personally. I don’t think that’s true at all. I think Don gives his perspective as he sees it. And I think he tried very hard to be objective.

I guess if you were to ask the developer, you'd probably get a totally different perspective; there's little love lost between us. I'm a thorn in their side on the CDD board, PWAC, and with my videos, they don't like that I don't fear them and they can't control me.

Apparently, anyone who doesn't agree with the view of the newly elected county commissioners is in league with the developer and a liar. If you've read my posts on the topic of the impact fees you'll see that I am very much opposed to the increases and the current direction of the BOCC. This is not because I favor the developer, it's because I've done the research, read the report, run the numbers, and understand what is going on with the budget. I try to bring these facts to light for the general public. Of course, those that believe the social media and propaganda put out by the 3 new commissioners revel against any opposing viewpoint and rebuke any that may oppose them, regardless of any facts presented. When I presented numbers in two of my videos that showed the actual cost impact of the proposed impact fees I was castigated fiercely for my political views on the subject, facts have a habit of aggravating those with differing viewpoints. I'll not stop presenting these facts in future videos.

My perspective on the impact fees comes from objective and careful research, hours of study, and a background in business. Many have forgotten since moving into our little bubble, that it really is about the money for businesses. Money is how each and every one of us were able to move to this community. Money is a necessity for any lifestyle. Money is why businesses are in business. These facts were not a bad thing when many moved here, but that was quickly forgotten as they've wrapped themselves in this very luxurious lifestyle. You can tax business all you want, they don't pay taxes, they collect these taxes from their customers as a part of the cost of doing business, they don't take it from their profits, they raise their prices.

Do my videos present an overall positive opinion of The Villages? Undeniably yes. I love where I live, enjoy the lifestyle, and couldn't think of a better place for my wife and I to retire to. I was in the construction business for nearly 20 years before retirement and have see the good and the bad side of the business, the bad side of my last employer is why I decided to retire early. Durning my 20 years I worked for the same company as a technician, design engineer, operation manager for a 3 state area, and as a project manager and have a pretty good perspective of much of the industry. While I'm frequently at odds with the developer, I have a tremendous amount of respect for what they do and how they do it. I see things a lot different than most, they are very well organized and process oriented, they are very tough on their contractors and subcontractors but also very fair, they are very cost conscious and squeeze every dime they can from every source, based on my discussions with many of the contractors building the houses here they also pay promptly (good cash flow can make all the difference in the world for a business) and are fiercely loyal to the contractors and suppliers that they partner with. These are all hallmarks of a well-run and successful company, it's hard not to respect them. But I don't always agree with them.

I appreciate Northwoods and the many others who continue to send me email about posts on other social media platforms. Except when I post a new video for you to enjoy, I spend very little time on these websites, and rarely do I monitor them. I do read ToTV frequently because its format allows me to skip the complaints about dog poop, trolls, and poor drivers, and read the stuff and opinions of others of those items that interest me. If we've learned anything from the past election cycle, it's that social media is a powerful tool that is easily manipulated by those with their own agenda and a kneejerk reaction to it is a downward spiral.

[dewilson58]

I'm a thorn in their side .

A rose with that thorn.

:clap2:

[Number 10 GI]

Actually I had and saw quite a few cars and workers but not thousands of them.

You're not going to see all the construction workers on site working at the same time. Plumbers, electricians, dry wall installers, tile layers, flooring installers, painters, roofers, HVAC installers, etc. can't do their work at the same time. Workers that build the roof trusses work off site as do the concrete redi-mix plant employees. There are the cement truck drivers that bring the concrete to the work site. There are warehouse workers that maintain the inventory used by the builders but they don't work at the construction site. There are truck drivers operating the dump trucks hauling sand all over the place, heavy equipment operators that move the sand around for the dump trucks to haul. There are also the food truck operators that roam the construction sites providing food to the workers and the people that prepare the food for sale. Even though they don't do actual construction work they wouldn't exist if there wasn't construction going on. Mechanics are used to maintain the trucks and heavy equipment. 20,000 employees is probably a conservative estimate.

[jmaccallum]

As a newbie here, I kind of chuckle at this topic. Y’all argue about your property tax which was increased, which you were promised a decrease by these new guys, and some want an impact fee increase, because you were told that is the only way to decrease your property tax. I’ve heard of people getting sold swamp land in Florida. Never thought I’d see it though. Have now. Both sides are selling a bunch of doodoo.

I mean why haven’t your new guys done anything to lower your property taxes? Wasn’t that why they were elected?And also has anybody looked at the County budget? Why have either increase? What’s it going to be used for? And if a developer offers more money as in the developers proposal, jump on it, plus lower the property tax! New homes mean additional property tax and yes some more infrastructure, but I thought that’s what the bonds paid for, too. Seems to me that no tax or fee increase is a good increase.

I don’t know. I’m just glad I live in Lake County.

[mk1126]

Time to start rolling back most of Florida gang up in Tally!

[Advogado]

I agree with you. The Developer offered 40% Impact Fees. I feel the commissioners should have tried to negotiate. Maybe they could have gotten a better deal. We will never know. The new commissioners ran on a "stick it to the Developer" platform, so they could never try to negotiate. It would have been viewed as "giving in" even if it would have been a better outcome for Sumter residents.

The new commissioners have to realize The Developer is a very wealthy adversary that has a lot of "assets/connections" at his disposal. So figure out how to work with him so each side can feel good about the outcome. If they continue to try to stick it to The Developer I believe it will be Sumter residents (specifically Villagers) that will suffer.


Requiring the Developer (through reasonable impact fees) rather than the current residents (through a massive property-tax hike) to pay for county infrastructure (roads, police and fire facilities, other government buildings, libraries, etc.) necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages is hardly "stick it to the Developer", as you claim.

As to negotiating with the Developer as to impact fees, why should the Developer be able to "negotiate" what his taxes and fees are? Can you do that? That issue should be decided by the representatives of the voters. Sumter County is, at least in theory, a democracy, not a plutocracy.

[Bogie Shooter]

Nothing new…

[dewilson58]

Nothing new…

:bigbow:

[New Englander]

Or someone who knows what they are doing.

Like Puppets?

[Dond1959]

Requiring the Developer (through reasonable impact fees) rather than the current residents (through a massive property-tax hike) to pay for county infrastructure (roads, police and fire facilities, other government buildings, libraries, etc.) necessitated by the Developer's massive expansion of The Villages is hardly "stick it to the Developer", as you claim.

As to negotiating with the Developer as to impact fees, why should the Developer be able to "negotiate" what his taxes and fees are? Can you do that? That issue should be decided by the representatives of the voters. Sumter County is, at least in theory, a democracy, not a plutocracy.

You can say things over and over with no factual support but it doesn’t make it correct. So here are some facts: there is only one impact fee for Sumter County and that is for roads. The other things you list are not relevant since your BOCC voted 4 to 1 to not pursue the items you listed in a new study. The fire facilities in the Villages are built and donated by the developer, a fact you seem to consistently ignore. Your BOCC also decided not to increase the maximum allowed fire assessment by more than 200% after an uproar from taxpayers. To think you can raise impact fees to reduce property taxes by 25% is just fantasy. You need to read Don Wileys posts and watch his videos. It will explain how the impact fees work.

We get it, you hate the developer for whatever reason. But starting another post on impact fees with no new or helpful information is just sad. Why not get the county budgets for the last 3 years and really see where spending is increasing and hold the BOCC to limiting or reducing expenses of all the departments? That would be a better use of your time and result in reduced taxes.

[dewilson58]

You can say things over and over with no factual support but it doesn’t make it correct. So here are some facts: there is only one impact fee for Sumter County and that is for roads. The other things you list are not relevant since your BOCC voted 4 to 1 to not pursue the items you listed in a new study. The fire facilities in the Villages are built and donated by the developer, a fact you seem to consistently ignore. Your BOCC also decided not to increase the maximum allowed fire assessment by more than 200% after an uproar from taxpayers. To think you can raise impact fees to reduce property taxes by 25% is just fantasy. You need to read Don Wileys posts and watch his videos. It will explain how the impact fees work.

We get it, you hate the developer for whatever reason. But starting another post on impact fees with no new or helpful information is just sad. Why not get the county budgets for the last 3 years and really see where spending is increasing and hold the BOCC to limiting or reducing expenses of all the departments? That would be a better use of your time and result in reduced taxes.

Nice Post.
Guacamole doesn't get it or doesn't care.
He/She just has the same old tired posts.
His/Her three new commissioners ended up fizzling.
Have a Great Day.

[Ben Franklin]

I always knew personal responsibility was just a political slogan. Are those causing the impact taking personal responsibility for the impact they make, or has the responsibility of those people, fallen to everyone?

[Altavia]

Nice Post.
Guacamole doesn't get it or doesn't care.
He/She just has the same old tired posts.
His/Her three new commissioners ended up fizzling.
Have a Great Day.

Guacamole is either Scott Fenstermaker or someone reposting his "articles" from the online misinformation source -such as GW identified in the budget the 25% increase was not used to develop new county roads.

[Advogado]

You can say things over and over with no factual support but it doesn’t make it correct. So here are some facts: there is only one impact fee for Sumter County and that is for roads. The other things you list are not relevant since your BOCC voted 4 to 1 to not pursue the items you listed in a new study. The fire facilities in the Villages are built and donated by the developer, a fact you seem to consistently ignore. Your BOCC also decided not to increase the maximum allowed fire assessment by more than 200% after an uproar from taxpayers. To think you can raise impact fees to reduce property taxes by 25% is just fantasy. You need to read Don Wileys posts and watch his videos. It will explain how the impact fees work.

We get it, you hate the developer for whatever reason. But starting another post on impact fees with no new or helpful information is just sad. Why not get the county budgets for the last 3 years and really see where spending is increasing and hold the BOCC to limiting or reducing expenses of all the departments? That would be a better use of your time and result in reduced taxes.

You seem intent on not letting the facts change your opinion, on misconstruing what I have written, and on making an ad hominem argument instead addressing the issues. BTW, my latest post is an update on the most important financial issue facing residents of Sumter County. Hopefully those readers who have not had time to follow this rather complex situation will find it helpful.

You are right, however, when you indicate that the 4-to-1 vote marks a major victory for the Developer and a major defeat for the current residents of Sumter County. It resulted from the new state legislation, co-sponsored by the Developer's employee Brett Hage, handcuffing the ability of local governments to make developers pay for their infrastructure. In any event, the remaining two Developer Commissioners and his state Representative Hage are all up for re-election next year. If Sumter County voters continue the reform momentum of last year, all three of those individuals will be tossed out.

As I clearly said in my original post, the Developer has, indeed, apparently been successful in frustrating the will of the voters. Last year, Sumter County residents, by overwhelmingly tossing out three of the Developer's five puppet Commissioners-- voted in favor of the Developer's (not the current residents) paying for ALL the Developer's County infrastructure, not just 40% of the cost of his roads, as he is presently doing.

[Northwoods]

You seem intent on not letting the facts change your opinion, on misconstruing what I have written, and on making an ad hominem argument instead addressing the issues. BTW, my latest post is an update on the most important financial issue facing residents of Sumter County. Hopefully those readers who have not had time to follow this rather complex situation will find it helpful.

You are right, however, when you indicate that the 4-to-1 vote marks a major victory for the Developer and a major defeat for the current residents of Sumter County. It resulted from the new state legislation, co-sponsored by the Developer's employee Brett Hage, handcuffing the ability of local governments to make developers pay for their infrastructure. In any event, the remaining two Developer Commissioners and his state Representative Hage are all up for re-election next year. If Sumter County voters continue the reform momentum of last year, all three of those individuals will be tossed out.

As I clearly said in my original post, the Developer has, indeed, apparently been successful in frustrating the will of the voters. Last year, Sumter County residents, by overwhelmingly tossing out three of the Developer's five puppet Commissioners-- voted in favor of the Developer's (not the current residents) paying for ALL the Developer's County infrastructure, not just 40% of the cost of his roads, as he is presently doing.

I could be wrong, but I think the outrage of the tax increase is in most people’s rear view mirror. After all... have we seen the roll back of the 25% tax increase? In fact, what have we seen from the 3 new commissioners? So now you want me to vote in 2 more “democrats running on the republican ticket” commissioners so I can see even more gridlock?
I’m not saying I’ll vote for the two current commissioners, but I can guarantee I’m not going to vote for anyone backed by the EMS team. All I’ve seen from them is whining because they’ve been outplayed. I need more savvy commissioners who know how to get things done.

[dewilson58]

Guacamole is either Scott Fenstermaker or someone reposting his "articles" from the online misinformation source -such as GW identified in the budget the 25% increase was not used to develop new county roads.

Nope.
A ToTV poster who:
Reposts old information.
Voted for the 3 new commissioners.
Thought the 25% was going to be reversed.
Has something against TV Developer.
Thinks TV Developer controls everything in Florida.
:ohdear:

[Advogado]

Nope.
A ToTV poster who:
Reposts old information.
Voted for the 3 new commissioners.
Thought the 25% was going to be reversed.
Has something against TV Developer.
Thinks TV Developer controls everything in Florida.
:ohdear:

My views on the Developer's sweetheart impact fees and our 25% property tax hike are those of 2/3 of the Republican voters (and probably even a higher percentage of Dems and independents). That fact was evidenced by the outcome of the last County Commission election.

Could you answer one basic question: Who do you think should pay for the county infrastructure (not just roads) necessitated by the massive expansion of The Villages-- the Developer or the current residents?

By the way, if you don't like my posts, feel free to either ignore them or refute them.

[Altavia]

My views on the Developer's sweetheart impact fees and our 25% property tax hike are those of 2/3 of the Republican voters (and probably even a higher percentage of Dems and independents). That fact was evidenced by the outcome of the last County Commission election.


Have you reviewed the budgets?

The majority of the increase was used for resurfacing of Morse and Buena Vista Blvds.

The road resurfacing was a one-time cost and represented about 50% of the tax increase, we should have seen a 10-12% decrease the following year.

For 2020, every department in the county increased their budgets with 10 to 20% increases.

[dewilson58]

Have you reviewed the budgets?

The majority of the increase was used for resurfacing of Morse and Buena Vista Blvds.

The road resurfacing was a one-time cost and represented about 50% of the tax increase, we should have seen a 10-12% decrease the following year.

For 2020, every department in the county increased their budgets with 10 to 20% increases.

No he/she didn't.
Just beats fake news that the increase went into developer's pocket.
Jus plain clueless.
:ho:

[Advogado]

Have you reviewed the budgets?

The majority of the increase was used for resurfacing of Morse and Buena Vista Blvds.

The road resurfacing was a one-time cost and represented about 50% of the tax increase, we should have seen a 10-12% decrease the following year.

For 2020, every department in the county increased their budgets with 10 to 20% increases.

It is not a matter of budgets and earmarking. It is a matter of revenue sources. Money is fungible. I repeat the essential question here: Who should pay for the massive county infrastructure necessitated by the massive expansion of The Villages-- the Developer or the current residents? None of the Developerphiles who post on this site seem willing to answer that question.

The voters of Sumter County did answer it, however. It was the central issue in the last County Commission election, and the voters overwhelmingly decided that the Developer should bear that cost, not the current residents through the 25% property-tax hike instituted by the Developer's puppet Commissioners to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. That fee covers only 40% of what should be his road costs and 0% of his other infrastructure costs, with the current residents making up the shortfall. As my original post pointed out, and as I think you would agree, it looks like the Developer has defeated the voters on that issue-- at least for the immediate future.

[Bill14564]

It is not a matter of budgets and earmarking. It is a matter of revenue sources. Money is fungible. I repeat the essential question here: Who should pay for the massive county infrastructure necessitated by the massive expansion of The Villages-- the Developer or the current residents? None of the Developerphiles who post on this site seem willing to answer that question.

The voters of Sumter County did answer it, however. It was the central issue in the last County Commission election, and the voters overwhelmingly decided that the Developer should bear that cost, not the current residents through the 25% property-tax hike instituted by the Developer's puppet Commissioners to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. That fee covers only 40% of what should be his road costs and 0% of his other infrastructure costs, with the current residents making up the shortfall. As my original post pointed out, and as I think you would agree, it looks like the Developer has defeated the voters on that issue-- at least for the immediate future.

A whole lot to digest and comment on. Mostly, you seem to have determined that you are right and refuse to be swayed by any evidence to the contrary. That is unfortunate.

Getting to the reality of the situation *is* a matter of budgets and earmarking as well as revenue sources. If you want to end the 25% then you need to know what will be affected. "Money is fungible" is an important-sounding statement somewhat meaningless without further explanation. What were you driving at when you wrote that?

Perhaps the answer of who should pay is both since both the developer and the current residents benefit by the development. Is a 40/60 split right? Some would argue yes and some would argue no.

I'm pretty sure many of the voters didn't understand the need for the 25% increase and how much of it was applicable to the impact fees. As others have pointed out over and over, increasing the impact fees to a full 100% would not collect even half of what the 25% tax increase collects.

Much of the 25% was needed for the repaving project, something that the law prohibits using impact fees for. And as was pointed out in this thread, now that the money was collected and the one-time repaving is done, shouldn't that allow the tax rate be lowered?

Some of the 25% was used for increased budgets in several departments including salaries for the Commissioners. Others have suggested the current Commissioners criticized those increases as part of their campaigns. If that is true then the current Commissioners could reduce part of the 25% immediately by rolling back the salary increases. Has that been done?

As far as the lack of other impact fees, I have read in other threads that some of the infrastructure gets built and turned over by the developer. Is this true or is it not? If that is true then the developer is paying for 100% of the impact in those cases without the need of an impact fee.

(I see you were able to use both "puppet" and "sweetheart" in this post. I thought you were slipping the other day when I saw a post without both of those. Good to see that post was just an anomaly.)

[Ben Franklin]

A whole lot to digest and comment on. Mostly, you seem to have determined that you are right and refuse to be swayed by any evidence to the contrary. That is unfortunate.

Getting to the reality of the situation *is* a matter of budgets and earmarking as well as revenue sources. If you want to end the 25% then you need to know what will be affected. "Money is fungible" is an important-sounding statement somewhat meaningless without further explanation. What were you driving at when you wrote that?

Perhaps the answer of who should pay is both since both the developer and the current residents benefit by the development. Is a 40/60 split right? Some would argue yes and some would argue no.

I'm pretty sure many of the voters didn't understand the need for the 25% increase and how much of it was applicable to the impact fees. As others have pointed out over and over, increasing the impact fees to a full 100% would not collect even half of what the 25% tax increase collects.

Much of the 25% was needed for the repaving project, something that the law prohibits using impact fees for. And as was pointed out in this thread, now that the money was collected and the one-time repaving is done, shouldn't that allow the tax rate be lowered?

Some of the 25% was used for increased budgets in several departments including salaries for the Commissioners. Others have suggested the current Commissioners criticized those increases as part of their campaigns. If that is true then the current Commissioners could reduce part of the 25% immediately by rolling back the salary increases. Has that been done?

As far as the lack of other impact fees, I have read in other threads that some of the infrastructure gets built and turned over by the developer. Is this true or is it not? If that is true then the developer is paying for 100% of the impact in those cases without the need of an impact fee.

(I see you were able to use both "puppet" and "sweetheart" in this post. I thought you were slipping the other day when I saw a post without both of those. Good to see that post was just an anomaly.)

"Some of the 25% was used for increased budgets in several departments including salaries for the Commissioners. Others have suggested the current Commissioners criticized those increases as part of their campaigns. If that is true then the current Commissioners could reduce part of the 25% immediately by rolling back the salary increases. Has that been done?"

State law, unless they changed it, mandates Commissioner salaries are tied to population. The more people, the higher the salaries. Not much they can do except, not accept a salary, and I don't know anyone, except for volunteers, who work for free.

This is what will happen by not collecting fees and a lack of accepting personal responsibility for the impact they make. When the roads become parking lots, and they will, as I have experienced this in other Florida counties, where they don't make people pay for the impact they create, is that in the future, road fly-over bridges will have to be built and roads widened. Then who pays?

[Altavia]

It is not a matter of budgets and earmarking. It is a matter of revenue sources. Money is fungible. I repeat the essential question here: [I]Who should pay for the massive county infrastructure necessitated

You seen determined to remain intentionally obtuse but the developer will pay the fees.

The change is to limit the rate of increase over time.

[Advogado]

I am not being obtuse when I point out the following facts:

The developer pays 40% of the cost of his county roads. He pays 0% of the cost of his other County infrastructure such as fire, police, libraries, parks, sewers, etc. Current county residents pay 60% for the roads and 100% for all the rest of the infrastructure.

The new state legislation, cosponsored by the Developer’s employee State Representative Brett Hage, is tailored to maintain that basic ratio.

[Joe V.]

The new state legislation, cosponsored by the Developer’s employee State Representative Brett Hage, is tailored to maintain that basic ratio.

State Representative Brett Hage was elected by most of the same voters that elected the 3 new members of the county commission which you bend over backwards trying to make seem like the Founding Fathers. Respect the choice of the voters, huh?

[Altavia]

I am not being obtuse when I point out the following facts:

The developer pays 40% of the cost of his county roads. He pays 0% of the cost of his other County infrastructure such as fire, police, libraries, parks, sewers, etc. Current county residents pay 60% for the roads and 100% for all the rest of the infrastructure.

The new state legislation, cosponsored by the Developer’s employee State Representative Brett Hage, is tailored to maintain that basic ratio.

More misrepresentations. You need to go back and comprehend Don Wileys posts you ignored and understand what is fair.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/1942709-post39.html

In addition, Developer pays for construction and operation of among the best charter schools in the country. And they don't ask that to be factored into the fees.

Developer provides thousands of skilled, high paying jobs to real tax payers enabling one of the strongest economies i the country.

We all benefit from Development in the form of reduced taxes and everyones property values increase.

You're drinking your own bathwater Scott...

[Altavia]

Nope.
A ToTV poster who:
Reposts old information.
Voted for the 3 new commissioners.
Thought the 25% was going to be reversed.
Has something against TV Developer.
Thinks TV Developer controls everything in Florida.
:ohdear:

For sure.

If not Scott, then the OP is heavily plagiarizing his "work."

[Advogado]

For sure.

If not Scott, then the OP is heavily plagiarizing his "work."

Unlike the pro-Developer posters I have made no real effort to hide my identity. It is readily obtainable by simply looking at my posts on other sites. I do wonder about the identities of the pro-developer posters on this site and how many of you work for the Developer or one of his suppliers.

But neither you nor I are the issue here. We should be talking about the Facts concerning the 25% tax increase and impact fees. The basic relevant ones are set forth in my original post. I will leave it at that.

[Joe V.]

. I do wonder about the identities of the pro-developer posters on this site and how many of you work for the Developer or one of his suppliers.



Are you the one stumbling around the squares at night under a tin foil hat trying to keep 'The Developer' out of your head?

[Aloha1]

I suspect the last two puppets go next.

You seem smarter than that, Stu.

[birdiebill]

I am not being obtuse when I point out the following facts:

The developer pays 40% of the cost of his county roads. He pays 0% of the cost of his other County infrastructure such as fire, police, libraries, parks, sewers, etc. Current county residents pay 60% for the roads and 100% for all the rest of the infrastructure.

The new state legislation, cosponsored by the Developer’s employee State Representative Brett Hage, is tailored to maintain that basic ratio.

Several people have referenced an article from Mr. Wiley that explain the impact fee; it really explains very well how the impact fee works along with other sources of revenue for new roads. It explains impact fees much better and more accurately than I can.

The developer pays 40% of the max that can be charged as determined by the 2019 impact fee study. All other developers also pay the same percentage of the max impact fees for their category of development that are often much higher than those for developers of over 55 communities. That is not 40% of the cost of the county roads. There are additional sources of revenue to help pay for the new roads; one other source is the gasoline tax collected from the service stations in Sumter County. Apparently there are offsets/credits--raise the road impact fee and the county loses some of the gasoline tax revenue and perhaps some of the other sources. The 40% of max when added to the other sources of road money was the amount determined to cover 100% of new road construction.

The developer pays for all the infrastructure within his villages; the new buyer assumes the bond for their share of that cost. The infrastructure for the new development within each village includes the storm sewers and the sewage sewers needed to support that development.

The developer builds the new fire stations, according to information derived elsewhere, and apparently gives those stations to the county as long as they are kept and used as fire stations. If they cease to be used as fire stations, the property reverts to the developer.

The developer does not need to pay an impact fee for parks because he builds parks and many other recreational opportunities into The Villages to support the needs of the new residents to The Villages.

As you know, road impact fees can not be used to offset repair and maintenance. They can only be used for new construction and for improvements to existing roads.

The developer also has plans to build an additional charter school for children of people who work in The Villages.

[Stu from NYC]

State Representative Brett Hage was elected by most of the same voters that elected the 3 new members of the county commission which you bend over backwards trying to make seem like the Founding Fathers. Respect the choice of the voters, huh?

Something very wrong when an employee of the developer co sponsors a bill that will directly benefit his employer.

[Goldwingnut]

Something very wrong when an employee of the developer co sponsors a bill that will directly benefit his employer.

Doesn't Representative Hage represent ALL the constituents in his district? Isn't his tasking to look out for the best interest of ALL of them, this would include both individuals as well as businesses.

It would seem very short sighted on his part to not only look after the best interests of the individuals but also the largest source of employment in his district.

How is this any different than other legislators in Washington who get funding for projects or other earmarks in their districts to improve employment or other conditions in the communities they represent?

[Northwoods]

Several people have referenced an article from Mr. Wiley that explain the impact fee; it really explains very well how the impact fee works along with other sources of revenue for new roads. It explains impact fees much better and more accurately than I can.

The developer pays 40% of the max that can be charged as determined by the 2019 impact fee study. All other developers also pay the same percentage of the max impact fees for their category of development that are often much higher than those for developers of over 55 communities. That is not 40% of the cost of the county roads. There are additional sources of revenue to help pay for the new roads; one other source is the gasoline tax collected from the service stations in Sumter County. Apparently there are offsets/credits--raise the road impact fee and the county loses some of the gasoline tax revenue and perhaps some of the other sources. The 40% of max when added to the other sources of road money was the amount determined to cover 100% of new road construction.

The developer pays for all the infrastructure within his villages; the new buyer assumes the bond for their share of that cost. The infrastructure for the new development within each village includes the storm sewers and the sewage sewers needed to support that development.

The developer builds the new fire stations, according to information derived elsewhere, and apparently gives those stations to the county as long as they are kept and used as fire stations. If they cease to be used as fire stations, the property reverts to the developer.

The developer does not need to pay an impact fee for parks because he builds parks and many other recreational opportunities into The Villages to support the needs of the new residents to The Villages.

As you know, road impact fees can not be used to offset repair and maintenance. They can only be used for new construction and for improvements to existing roads.

The developer also has plans to build an additional charter school for children of people who work in The Villages.

Good summary. People don't realize that The Developer pays for Fire Stations, the building of Charter Schools, etc. It's "amenities" that don't cost Villagers anything, but benefit them.

[Stu from NYC]

Doesn't Representative Hage represent ALL the constituents in his district? Isn't his tasking to look out for the best interest of ALL of them, this would include both individuals as well as businesses.

It would seem very short sighted on his part to not only look after the best interests of the individuals but also the largest source of employment in his district.

How is this any different than other legislators in Washington who get funding for projects or other earmarks in their districts to improve employment or other conditions in the communities they represent?

I hear what you are saying but Hage is an employee of the developer and what he did is a huge conflict of interest.

[Goldwingnut]

I hear what you are saying but Hage is an employee of the developer and what he did is a huge conflict of interest.

So endorsing a bill originally written and submitted by another representative, before he was elected to office, that benefits the individuals, communities, and businesses in the district that he represents is a conflict of interest?

On the state level many of our representatives still continue to work for private companies throughout the state. I'd rather this than what we have at the national level where most of the representatives and senators somehow become multi-millionaires while in office on a $200K/year salary (how does that happen?).

[Stu from NYC]

So endorsing a bill originally written and submitted by another representative, before he was elected to office, that benefits the individuals, communities, and businesses in the district that he represents is a conflict of interest?

On the state level many of our representatives still continue to work for private companies throughout the state. I'd rather this than what we have at the national level where most of the representatives and senators somehow become multi-millionaires while in office on a $200K/year salary (how does that happen?).

There is no question that many of our politicians are crooks before rich while earning a relatively small salary. I firmly believe we need term limits.

In the case of Hage I find it disturbing that he did not recluse himself when putting his name on a bill that directly benefits his employer. If that is not a conflict of interest do not know what else to call it.

[dewilson58]

In the case of Hage I find it disturbing that he did not recluse himself when putting his name on a bill that directly benefits his employer.

His name, that's what is disturbing??? :faint:

[Bill14564]

....

In the case of Hage I find it disturbing that he did not recluse himself when putting his name on a bill that directly benefits his employer. If that is not a conflict of interest do not know what else to call it.

Taking your meaning....

Is it possible to have part-time representatives without having some conflict of interest? No matter what bill comes up, if it affects our county then it works in favor of some and against others. If a representative is employed in the county then the bill will affect his employer in some way and will be interpreted as a conflict of interest. Either he votes in a manner that benefits his employer or he votes against his employer or he doesn't do the job he was elected to do and abstains from voting.

Maybe it isn't Hage's fault for being employed but the voter's fault for electing someone that doesn't see things the way they do.

[Stu from NYC]

Taking your meaning....

Is it possible to have part-time representatives without having some conflict of interest? No matter what bill comes up, if it affects our county then it works in favor of some and against others. If a representative is employed in the county then the bill will affect his employer in some way and will be interpreted as a conflict of interest. Either he votes in a manner that benefits his employer or he votes against his employer or he doesn't do the job he was elected to do and abstains from voting.

Maybe it isn't Hage's fault for being employed but the voter's fault for electing someone that doesn't see things the way they do.

If he was a judge he would have had to recuse himself.

He put his name on a bill that impacted is employer in a direct way. How is that not a conflict of interest?

[Bill14564]

If he was a judge he would have had to recuse himself.

He put his name on a bill that impacted is employer in a direct way. How is that not a conflict of interest?

But he is not a judge. A judge would likely be a full time job.

I would be more concerned about the conflict of interest when it came time to vote, not when it simply meant adding a name to the bill.

I understand the concern about conflict of interest but I don't know what the solution is. Bills are going to come up that affect our county and some of them will affect the employers of our representatives. Do we demand they recuse themselves when this happens which leaves us with no representation? Had he not added his name as a sponsor and announced that he was going to vote against the bill would you have still called for him to recuse himself?

The problem is the part-time nature of the state representatives. But, even if they were full-time representatives and not current employees there would still be a concern over past associations. Perhaps the only solution for anti-xxxx is to make sure the candidate doesn't have connections to xxxx before they get voted into office.

[Villages Kahuna]

…How is this any different than other legislators in Washington who get funding for projects or other earmarks in their districts to improve employment or other conditions in the communities they represent?
It’s a LOT different when Representative Hage, an executive of The Villages development company, suddenly decides to submit a bill which substantially limits impact fees which could be assessed to his employer, only days before the meeting scheduled to approve those impact fees.

If this issue was of such importance that a bill be submitted for fast-track approval by the Florida House and Senate, why wasn’t it submitted for legislative approval years ago?

Answer: It wasn’t necessary during all the years that The Villages grew at a rapid pace because until now the Developer paid for the construction of all the roads necessary for the continued development to the south.

Consider what has happened.


Until now the Developer paid for the construction of the roads and infrastructure needed for the continuing expansion of The Villages.
Then recently the current, younger generation of the Developer’s family got the idea that all the residents of Sumter County should pay for the new roads, saving the Developer that expense.
The Sumter County board quickly approved a 25% increase in property taxes to pay for the new roads, many miles to the south of most residents.
Then after the “new” county board, elected to replace board members who had such a close relationship with the Developer that they would pass virtually any proposal he presented, announced that the cost of the new roads should be shifted back to the Developer in the form of a series of impact fees.


Nice try GoldWingNut. Your response is well thought out. But it ignores the timing of Representative Hage’s rush to get legislation passed just before impact fees were to be assessed against his employer. That timing demonstrates the bald-faced fact that Hage’s loyalty is primarily to his employer, NOT all the other residents and business owners in the county.

[Stu from NYC]

It’s a LOT different when Representative Hage, an executive of The Villages development company, suddenly decides to submit a bill which substantially limits impact fees which could be assessed to his employer, only days before the meeting scheduled to approve those impact fees.

If this issue was of such importance that a bill be submitted for fast-track approval by the Florida House and Senate, why wasn’t it submitted for legislative approval years ago?

Answer: It wasn’t necessary during all the years that The Villages grew at a rapid pace because until now the Developer paid for the construction of all the roads necessary for the continued development to the south.

Consider what has happened.


Until now the Developer paid for the construction of the roads and infrastructure needed for the continuing expansion of The Villages.
Then recently the current, younger generation of the Developer’s family got the idea that all the residents of Sumter County should pay for the new roads, saving the Developer that expense.
The Sumter County board quickly approved a 25% increase in property taxes to pay for the new roads, many miles to the south of most residents.
Then after the “new” county board, elected to replace board members who had such a close relationship with the Developer that they would pass virtually any proposal he presented, announced that the cost of the new roads should be shifted back to the Developer in the form of a series of impact fees.


Nice try GoldWingNut. Your response is well thought out. But it ignores the timing of Representative Hage’s rush to get legislation passed just before impact fees were to be assessed against his employer. That timing demonstrates the bald-faced fact that Hage’s loyalty is primarily to his employer, NOT all the other residents and business owners in the county.

You said it much better than me.

[dewilson58]

The Sumter County board quickly approved a 25% increase in property taxes to pay for the new roads, many miles to the south of most residents.
Support that silly statement.......

How much went to NEW roads, not existing roads???

[dewilson58]

Answer: It wasn’t necessary during all the years that The Villages grew at a rapid pace because until now the Developer paid for the construction of all the roads necessary for the continued development to the south.

Who paid for the expansion of 466 & 466a ???

[Villages Kahuna]

… “make people pay for the impact they create”…

Those are the key words from your recent post, at least as far as I’m concerned.

Has the Developer, commissioners, “experts”, or residents explained how all the residents of the county will benefit from the Developer’s continuing expansion to the south?

The proposed new roads are so far away from where most people in the county live, they may never drive on them. The roads WILL permit the Developer to continue to build houses, shopping centers, even apartments farther and farther to the south. And the Developer will PROFIT from all that development.

So again, can someone make the argument that the construction of roads and infrastructure to the south will result in such compelling benefits to all the residents of the county that they should pay for those roads? If not, and if the Developer can pass on whatever he might be required to pay to build the roads on to new homeowners or businesses in that area, someone please argue why the Developer shouldn’t be required to pay for the new roads which will be such a benefit to him?

[Joe V.]

It’s a LOT different when Representative Hage, an executive of The Villages development company, suddenly decides to submit a bill which substantially limits impact fees which could be assessed to his employer, only days before the meeting scheduled to approve those impact fees.

If this issue was of such importance that a bill be submitted for fast-track approval by the Florida House and Senate, why wasn’t it submitted for legislative approval years ago?

Answer: It wasn’t necessary during all the years that The Villages grew at a rapid pace because until now the Developer paid for the construction of all the roads necessary for the continued development to the south.

Consider what has happened.


Until now the Developer paid for the construction of the roads and infrastructure needed for the continuing expansion of The Villages.
Then recently the current, younger generation of the Developer’s family got the idea that all the residents of Sumter County should pay for the new roads, saving the Developer that expense.
The Sumter County board quickly approved a 25% increase in property taxes to pay for the new roads, many miles to the south of most residents.
Then after the “new” county board, elected to replace board members who had such a close relationship with the Developer that they would pass virtually any proposal he presented, announced that the cost of the new roads should be shifted back to the Developer in the form of a series of impact fees.


Nice try GoldWingNut. Your response is well thought out. But it ignores the timing of Representative Hage’s rush to get legislation passed just before impact fees were to be assessed against his employer. That timing demonstrates the bald-faced fact that Hage’s loyalty is primarily to his employer, NOT all the other residents and business owners in the county.

I am pleased Hage had a hand in keeping this county's economic base growing. I will definitely vote to retain Hage in office.

[Altavia]

… “make people pay for the impact they create”…

Those are the key words from your recent post, at least as far as I’m concerned.

Has the Developer, commissioners, “experts”, or residents explained how all the residents of the county will benefit from the Developer’s continuing expansion to the south?

The proposed new roads are so far away from where most people in the county live, they may never drive on them. The roads WILL permit the Developer to continue to build houses, shopping centers, even apartments farther and farther to the south. And the Developer will PROFIT from all that development.

So again, can someone make the argument that the construction of roads and infrastructure to the south will result in such compelling benefits to all the residents of the county that they should pay for those roads? If not, and if the Developer can pass on whatever he might be required to pay to build the roads on to new homeowners or businesses in that area, someone please argue why the Developer shouldn’t be required to pay for the new roads which will be such a benefit to him?

All residents benefit from a strong local economy, high employment, rising property values and increased tax base.

New homeowners pay a higher percentage of property tax than those who bought 5+ years ago as a result of increasing sale prices and real estate tax compression on legacy properties due to homestead. New development is why property taxes are among lowest in the state and have not increased in 10+ years.

New Homeowners taxes will/is being be used to maintain existing roads they may not use. Most of the recent 25% increase was used for resurfacing of Morse and Buena Vista Blvds. The most recent tax increase was not used for new roads. It was used to increase internal department budgets in the following year.

The developer via new home buyers is paying for construction and operation of new, state of the art education facilities and not passing the cost on the the tax payers. Maybe they/new home owners should receive a tax credit for that investment.

I'm sure you know new homeowners pay for infrastructure through their bonds...

[Advogado]

I am pleased Hage had a hand in keeping this county's economic base growing. I will definitely vote to retain Hage in office.

Hage frustrated the will of Sumter county voters by acting to protect his employer’s sweetheart impact fee, resulting in a continuation of our massive property-tax hike. Sumter county will continue to grow even if the current residents stop subsidizing the Developer’s business. Hopefully, Hage’s actions will cost him the next election.

[Aloha1]

Hage frustrated the will of Sumter county voters by acting to protect his employer’s sweetheart impact fee, resulting in a continuation of our massive property-tax hike. Sumter county will continue to grow even if the current residents stop subsidizing the Developer’s business. Hopefully, Hage’s actions will cost him the next election.

Not likely since District 33 INCLUDES parts of Marion and Lake County. Also, given all the new residents south of 44 who don't buy your argument, I imagine the majority will support him.

[Joe V.]

Hopefully, Hage’s actions will cost him the next election.

Hage will win reelection. He has an overwhelming majority behind him. He won by 69.9% of the vote.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

All residents benefit from a strong local economy, high employment, rising property values and increased tax base.

New homeowners pay a higher percentage of property tax than those who bought 5+ years ago as a result of increasing sale prices and real estate tax compression on legacy properties due to homestead. New development is why property taxes are among lowest in the state and have not increased in 10+ years.

New Homeowners taxes will/is being be used to maintain existing roads they may not use. Most of the recent 25% increase was used for resurfacing of Morse and Buena Vista Blvds. The most recent tax increase was not used for new roads. It was used to increase internal department budgets in the following year.

The developer via new home buyers is paying for construction and operation of new, state of the art education facilities and not passing the cost on the the tax payers. Maybe they/new home owners should receive a tax credit for that investment.

I'm sure you know new homeowners pay for infrastructure through their bonds...

If most of that 25% increase was used to pay for resurfacing Morse and Buena Vista, then y'all in Sumter County got majorly shanked. You know the paving company's got to be in with the Developer (a cousin, an in-law maybe).

The parts that were resurfaced were the newer parts in the southern half of the Villages. The older parts in the northern half have pits and bumps and gashes in them and need to be done, but because they're in the northern section, perhaps the county decided (with approval of the developer of course) that they weren't important enough.

That would make sense, since the developer's focus is on the newer section, which is to the south.

The developer, the county government, the town governments, and all the contractors are all working together to ensure the greatest amount of profit for the lowest amount of work. If you believe otherwise, I have a lovely 400 acres of prime real estate to sell you in the middle of the Mojave desert.

[Advogado]

Hage will win reelection. He has an overwhelming majority behind him. He won by 69.9% of the vote.
Unfortunately, I think that you are probably right. Hage will probably be reelected.

Because of the Developer's control of local media, many voters in Sumter County and the rest of Hage's district are still unaware of what Hage has done, WHILE ON THE DEVELOPER'S PAYROLL, to:
(a) protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee and make it exceedingly difficult for local governments, both in Sumter County and throughout the state, to finance infrastructure (like fire-and police-buildings and equipment, roads, and schools) through impact fees rather than property taxes on existing residents; and
(b) thereby make it impossible to roll back our massive Sumter County property-tax increase.

In addition, the voters who are aware of this may well have forgotten about it by the time of next year's Republican primary, which is where local elections really get decided. Finally, Hage will have the financial and political support of the Developer, his suppliers, and the little group of insiders who still control the local Republican organizations despite the outcome of last year's County Commissioner elections.

But time will tell. Very few people thought that it was possible to oust three of the Developer's puppets from the Sumter County Commission, as happened last year.

[Altavia]

Unfortunately, I think that you are probably right. Hage will probably be reelected.


Especially once people comprehend most of what developer haters like you regurgitate are half truths and lies.

The tax increase was used to resurface roads and increase internal budgets. Not used to build roads.

[Advogado]

Especially once people comprehend most of what developer haters like you regurgitate are half truths and lies.

The tax increase was used to resurface roads and increase internal budgets. Not used to build roads.

I am sorry, but that is absolute nonsense, which is being spouted by defenders of the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. The Developer is clearly NOT paying for county infrastructure (for example, only 40% of the roads and 0% of other county infrastructure) necessitated by his massive expansion of The Villages. Who do you think is paying for the rest of it????

We, the current residents, are--via the massive hike in our property taxes. Resurfacing roads is just one of the expenditures made by the County. It was no more responsible for the tax increase than any other County expenditure. It is pretty simple, to determine revenue needs, all expenditures are added together. Whatever revenue doesn't come from the Developer comes from current residents (including current businesses).

[Dond1959]

I am sorry, but that is absolute nonsense, which is being spouted by defenders of the Developer's sweetheart impact fee. The Developer is clearly NOT paying for county infrastructure (for example, only 40% of the roads and 0% of other county infrastructure) necessitated by his massive expansion of The Villages. Who do you think is paying for the rest of it????

We, the current residents, are--via the massive hike in our property taxes. Resurfacing roads is just one of the expenditures made by the County. It was no more responsible for the tax increase than any other County expenditure. It is pretty simple, to determine revenue needs, all expenditures are added together. Whatever revenue doesn't come from the Developer comes from current residents (including current businesses).

You continue to ignore the gas tax revenue as a source for the remaining 60% of the impact fee that is paid by drivers in Sumter county including drivers just passing through on 75 and the turnpike. As you increase the impact fee to businesses you reduce the revenue from the gas tax for the impact fee. It can only equal 100% and the amount is limited by the previous study.

Don’t forget your newly elected commissioners decided NOT to move forward with another study for all those other expenses you talk about, so complain to them. Your commissioners also decided not to move forward on increasing the fire assessment by over 200%. Sometimes governing is not as easy as sitting on the sidelines and throwing rocks.

[dewilson58]

Sometimes governing is not as easy as sitting on the sidelines and throwing rocks.

The three new inexperienced commissioners just found that out & got their lunches served to them. :shocked:

[Bill14564]

You continue to ignore the gas tax revenue as a source for the remaining 60% of the impact fee that is paid by drivers in Sumter county including drivers just passing through on 75 and the turnpike. As you increase the impact fee to businesses you reduce the revenue from the gas tax for the impact fee. It can only equal 100% and the amount is limited by the previous study.

Don’t forget your newly elected commissioners decided NOT to move forward with another study for all those other expenses you talk about, so complain to them. Your commissioners also decided not to move forward on increasing the fire assessment by over 200%. Sometimes governing is not as easy as sitting on the sidelines and throwing rocks.

Not sure any of this is quite that easy. The transportation study calculates the amount of gasoline tax being used for road improvements but I have not yet found where those tax revenues are earmarked for impacts caused by new construction. It is possible that they are. It is also possible that the gas taxes must be used for road improvements but are available for any road improvements and would be available for other areas of the county.

Don't forget the newly elected commissioners were under a LOT of pressure to NOT do anything that looked like increasing taxes which certainly contributed to canceling the study and not increasing the assessment cap.

[Advogado]

The three new inexperienced commissioners just found that out & got their lunches served to them. :shocked:

I don't disagree that the three new Commissioners have failed to carry out their campaign promise to increase the Developer's sweetheart impact fee and use the increased revenue to roll back our massive property-tax increase-- although Commissioner Miller has done everything in his power to stick to his promise.

In other words, and as I explained in my original post, it looks like the Developer has won and the current residents have lost. Both the Developer's sweetheart impact fee and our massive property-tax increase remains in place. For some reason, you seem to think that that is a good outcome. I do not, and I am not sure that this war is over yet.

[Advogado]

Not sure any of this is quite that easy. The transportation study calculates the amount of gasoline tax being used for road improvements but I have not yet found where those tax revenues are earmarked for impacts caused by new construction. It is possible that they are. It is also possible that the gas taxes must be used for road improvements but are available for any road improvements and would be available for other areas of the county.

Don't forget the newly elected commissioners were under a LOT of pressure to NOT do anything that looked like increasing taxes which certainly contributed to canceling the study and not increasing the assessment cap.

In terms of the impact-fee study, the new Brett Hage co-sponsored state legislation, has apparently made it virtually impossible to significantly increase his employer's sweetheart impact fee. So the question became, Does it still make sense to do the impact-fee study at this point?

[Joe V.]

In terms of the impact-fee study, the new Brett Hage co-sponsored state legislation, has apparently made it virtually impossible to significantly increase his employer's sweetheart impact fee.

False. The bill limits impact fee increases to 12 1/2 percent in one year and 50% over four years. All developers in the state are affected by this bill. The bill was sponsored by Rep. Nick DiCeglie of Pinellas County. Along with Hage and the majority of our elected legislators they see the folly of high impact fees which has been proven to harm the state's economy.

[Bill14564]

In terms of the impact-fee study, the new Brett Hage co-sponsored state legislation, has apparently made it virtually impossible to significantly increase his employer's sweetheart impact fee. So the question became, Does it still make sense to do the impact-fee study at this point?

1. I believe the new law requires a recent study to justify an increase.

2. Virtually impossible only becomes impossible when you stop trying.

3. The study covered more than just road impact fees - something a rather prolific poster continuously demanded.

4. The fire protection cap increase may have been necessary but by canceling it we never heard the details the request was based on.

[Advogado]

False. The bill limits impact fee increases to 12 1/2 percent in one year and 50% over four years. All developers in the state are affected by this bill. The bill was sponsored by Rep. Nick DiCeglie of Pinellas County. Along with Hage and the majority of our elected legislators they see the folly of high impact fees which has been proven to harm the state's economy.

Yes, the legislation, while drafted to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee, harms local governments and residents statewide, not just Sumter County. This was pointed out in my original post. It is the reason why the legislation was opposed by the Florida League of Cities and the Association Florida Counties.

As to a significant increase in the Developer's sweetheart impact fee: Assuming that the three new Commissioners can get their act together and surmount the Developer's actions to protect his current fee, then at an increase of 12 1/2% per year, after the four-year period, the Developer will still only be paying 60% (instead of the current 40%) of the cost of his county roads and 0% of the cost of his other county infrastructure. Still a sweetheart deal. Meanwhile, we current residents will continue paying the difference.

[Joe V.]

Yes, the legislation, while drafted to protect the Developer's sweetheart impact fee, harms local governments and residents statewide, not just Sumter County. This was pointed out in my original post. It is the reason why the legislation was opposed by the Florida League of Cities and the Association Florida Counties.

As to a significant increase in the Developer's sweetheart impact fee: Assuming that the three new Commissioners can get their act together and surmount the Developer's actions to protect his current fee, then at an increase of 12 1/2% per year, after the four-year period, the Developer will still only be paying 60% (instead of the current 40%) of the cost of his county roads and 0% of the cost of his other county infrastructure. Still a sweetheart deal. Meanwhile, we current residents will continue paying the difference.


"12 1/2% per year, after the four-year period, the Developer will still only be paying 60%".

This a good and fair pricing scheme. It does not slam shut the plans of new businesses from investing in Sumter County to go somewhere else.

Just curious. With all your many dozens of posts, mostly repeating yourself, do you use this forum merely to feel better about yourself? You have not seemed to change one persons opinion on this matter to support your misguided hate of all things "developer".

[Kenswing]

"12 1/2% per year, after the four-year period, the Developer will still only be paying 60%".

This a good and fair pricing scheme. It does not slam shut the plans of new businesses from investing in Sumter County to go somewhere else.

Just curious. With all your many dozens of posts, mostly repeating yourself, do you use this forum merely to feel better about yourself? You have not seemed to change one persons opinion on this matter to support your misguided hate of all things "developer".Wasn't any good as a lawyer so he figured he'd try his hand at being an activist.

[Aloha1]

I don't disagree that the three new Commissioners have failed to carry out their campaign promise to increase the Developer's sweetheart impact fee and use the increased revenue to roll back our massive property-tax increase-- although Commissioner Miller has done everything in his power to stick to his promise.

In other words, and as I explained in my original post, it looks like the Developer has won and the current residents have lost. Both the Developer's sweetheart impact fee and our massive property-tax increase remains in place. For some reason, you seem to think that that is a good outcome. I do not, and I am not sure that this war is over yet.
Looks to me that none of the 3 stooges should have run at all. Certainly since none of them had any real world experience.

[dewilson58]

Looks to me that none of the 3 stooges should have run at all. Certainly since none of them had any real world experience.

But too many voters fell for the emotional (not logical) election promise(s). They and the voters learned a lesson..................hopefully.

[John Mayes]

Thanks for the literary suggestion, but I will stick with "sweetheart" and "massive", as well as "puppet".

Those three adjectives are factually correct. Would you prefer "incredibly low in favor of their campaign financer" instead of "sweetheart" to describe the Developer's impact fee? How about "incredibly huge at 25%" instead of "massive" to describe our property-tax hike? Or how about "stooge" instead of "puppet" to describe a County Commissioner who takes massive :) contributions from the Developer's companies, suppliers, their owners, and employees and then does the Developer's bidding?

BTW, based on the results of the last Commission election, a massive :) majority of Sumter County residents agree with my understanding of the sweetheart impact fee/massive property :) tax hike. They do not agree with you or with your little group of fellow Developer-philes who seem to populate this site and delight in regurgitating the propaganda about this issue that has appeared in the Developer's Daily Sun.

Actually, I haven’t stated my position one way or the other, so I think it’s rather unfair to conclude that I’m pro-developer. I will not be a resident until mid June when we close so I have no past history but was well researched and aware before we bought in the new southern expansion area.

I just think your posts are redundant and overly dramatic. I know there are a lot of people on this site that agree with you and a lot that don’t. Your posts say nothing different from the previous and you avoid/deflect positions and questions that disagree with your opinion.

I’ve learned over my lifetime that sometimes you have to accept outcomes that you passionately disagree with and move on with life. Life is too short to be unhappy.

[dewilson58]

Actually, I haven’t stated my position one way or the other, so I think it’s rather unfair to conclude that I’m pro-developer. I will not be a resident until mid June when we close so I have no past history but was well researched and aware before we bought in the new southern expansion area.

I just think your posts are redundant and overly dramatic. I know there are a lot of people on this site that agree with you and a lot that don’t. Your posts say nothing different from the previous and you avoid/deflect positions and questions that disagree with your opinion.

I’ve learned over my lifetime that sometimes you have to accept outcomes that you passionately disagree with and move on with life. Life is too short to be unhappy.

An early, WELCOME to The Villages!!!!
Counting the days???

That poster jus has a sad life.
90% of the posters are great, there are a lot of non-residents on this site.
99% of The Villagers are great.

I first came to TV and looked at houses in 1990.
We purchased about 10 years ago............we still go for a cart ride and smile.
Enjoy the journey.

[John Mayes]

An early, WELCOME to The Villages!!!!
Counting the days???

That poster jus has a sad life.
90% of the posters are great, there are a lot of non-residents on this site.
99% of The Villagers are great.

I first came to TV and looked at houses in 1990.
We purchased about 10 years ago............we still go for a cart ride and smile.
Enjoy the journey.

Thank you so much for the welcome! We are excited about the move. When we get settled in, I’d be happy to buy you a beer and enjoy a good cigar.

See you all soon!