Beers for everyone - on the House...

[GrumpyOldMan]

If the United States reaches the President's vaccination goal by the Fourth of July, Anheuser-Busch will buy all adults a round of beer.

Sounds patriotic to me - I wonder how long before this thread gets locked, it's a positive thread, not a complaint or political, but I am betting it lasts about a day - LOL!

(BTW: I don't drink anything - anymore - and don't recommend any does, but I think it is nice to see a company pitching in and trying to help)

[thevillages2013]

If the United States reaches the President's vaccination goal by the Fourth of July, Anheuser-Busch will buy all adults a round of beer.

Sounds patriotic to me - I wonder how long before this thread gets locked, it's a positive thread, not a complaint or political, but I am betting it lasts about a day - LOL!

(BTW: I don't drink anything - anymore - and don't recommend any does, but I think it is nice to see a company pitching in and trying to help)
I will buy my own beer when I want one and it won’t be Budweiser

[karostay]

I will buy my own beer when I want one and it won’t be Budweiser

:coolsmiley: Can't give that crap away

[Bay Kid]

Free beer if you already got your shots? Haha. More free stuff.

[billethkid]

So the assessment is....all it takes is to offer a free beer.

What does that indicate?!

[roscoguy]

If the United States reaches the President's vaccination goal by the Fourth of July, Anheuser-Busch will buy all adults a round of beer.

Sounds patriotic to me - I wonder how long before this thread gets locked, it's a positive thread, not a complaint or political, but I am betting it lasts about a day - LOL!

(BTW: I don't drink anything - anymore - and don't recommend any does, but I think it is nice to see a company pitching in and trying to help)

Well, kudos to A-B for trying to add a little incentive to help reach that vaccination goal! Do they make a decent porter or stout yet? :beer3:

[graciegirl]

If the United States reaches the President's vaccination goal by the Fourth of July, Anheuser-Busch will buy all adults a round of beer.

Sounds patriotic to me - I wonder how long before this thread gets locked, it's a positive thread, not a complaint or political, but I am betting it lasts about a day - LOL!

(BTW: I don't drink anything - anymore - and don't recommend any does, but I think it is nice to see a company pitching in and trying to help)

I thought it sounded like just the right thing to do. Being that I am the daughter and granddaughter of brewmasters from Columbus, Ohio. And I do not drink anymore. I wasn't any good at it.

So, you are right, this forum can find anything to criticize, condemn or complain about and Dale Carnegie would be soiling his drawers.

It brings out the WORST in all of us sometimes. Yesterday, for the first time in my LIFE, I accused someone of using an ethnic slur on ME on this forum.

I will join the celebration if people meet this goal and have a non-alcoholic Yeungling.

This is nothing on this earth as good as a cold GERMAN beer on a hot day.

[stanley]

Well, kudos to A-B for trying to add a little incentive to help reach that vaccination goal! Do they make a decent porter or stout yet? :beer3:


No..............it's all skunk pee

[GrumpyOldMan]

I never particularly liked A&B beers when I was drinking, but it's the gesture I appreciate. Corporate responsibility is so lacking today, any sign of it is refreshing.

[fishon]

Good for Busch.
Proving once and for all that people need to be frightened, coerced or bribed to get the covid replicant vaccine.

[justjim]

I must admit that I was a bit surprised by AB offering the free beer. Anything to get us “over the hump” and get to herd immunity and things back to some sort of “normal” is welcome. Some States are offering a lottery for people to get vaccinated. Obviously most residents of The Villages are already vaccinated even if they are not a fan of shots and some did it “for the better good”. There are a few, like a person I know, can’t get the shot for medical reasons. Another person I know who got Covid, lives in another State, recovered got the shot anyway. Good for him...

[fishon]

According to The Villages Daily Sun only 55% of people over 55 in Sumter County have been vaccinated.
Appointments have not been necessary for a week or two now for all persons above the age of 12.
Apparently interest in vaccinations is on the wane.

[JMintzer]

According to The Villages Daily Sun only 55% of people over 55 in Sumter County have been vaccinated.
Appointments have not been necessary for a week or two now for all persons above the age of 12.
Apparently interest in vaccinations is on the wane.

I wonder if they take into account the snowbirds, or part-time residents who may have been vaccinated elsewhere?...

[graciegirl]

According to The Villages Daily Sun only 55% of people over 55 in Sumter County have been vaccinated.
Appointments have not been necessary for a week or two now for all persons above the age of 12.
Apparently interest in vaccinations is on the wane.

According to this graph, 64.37% of people who live in Sumter County, Florida have had both shots. People who have had one shot is in the low seventies.

Sumter County, FL COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker | theadvertiser.com (https://data.theadvertiser.com/covid-19-vaccine-tracker/florida/sumter-county/12119/)

[Petersweeney]

1/3 of global beer market is AB/InBev a Belgian company.... they could put the vaccine in the beer - and solve the problem

[mike234]

I can see the villagers lining up for free stuff now. and when they order, these cheapskates will ask "is this free?" and if these cheapskates get it for free, they will only leave a .50 cent tip....I get embarrassed by my friends, who are really cheapskates, and stiff waiters and waiters constantly.....I call them pikers.. they will order an ice tea, and charge it....

[Byte1]

If the United States reaches the President's vaccination goal by the Fourth of July, Anheuser-Busch will buy all adults a round of beer.

Sounds patriotic to me - I wonder how long before this thread gets locked, it's a positive thread, not a complaint or political, but I am betting it lasts about a day - LOL!

(BTW: I don't drink anything - anymore - and don't recommend any does, but I think it is nice to see a company pitching in and trying to help)

Just advertising. No big deal. Hope no one NEEDS the offer of a free deal to get vaccinated.

[larbud]

i will buy my own beer when i want one and it won’t be budweiser

this!

[mk1126]

I'm in!

[Travelingal702]

I can see the villagers lining up for free stuff now. and when they order, these cheapskates will ask "is this free?" and if these cheapskates get it for free, they will only leave a .50 cent tip....I get embarrassed by my friends, who are really cheapskates, and stiff waiters and waiters constantly.....I call them pikers.. they will order an ice tea, and charge it....
ABSOLUTELY inexcusable not to tip the wait staff in any restaurant. And to stiff them, is even worse. If I saw this happening, I would call them on it.

[LG999]

I am vaccinated but i would not get vaccinated for a donut or a beer. Would you?

These “give aways” are a form of advertising for companies.

[Swoop]

Free Beer! Well that changes everything!! Sure I’ll join the largest vaccine trial in history for a free beer! Forget the fact that no one has any idea of whether there will be long term health issues associated with these vaccines, we are talking about a FREE Beer!

[OhioBuckeye]

I will buy my own beer when I want one and it won’t be Budweiser

Guess the beer companies think everyone drinks. I got both my Covid shots & I never got rewarded!

[Rchamblin1]

If the United States reaches the President's vaccination goal by the Fourth of July, Anheuser-Busch will buy all adults a round of beer.

Sounds patriotic to me - I wonder how long before this thread gets locked, it's a positive thread, not a complaint or political, but I am betting it lasts about a day - LOL!

(BTW: I don't drink anything - anymore - and don't recommend any does, but I think it is nice to see a company pitching in and trying to help)


Look into why the government and their cronies need to keep rewarding everyone who gets the dangerous vaccine. Nano particles and other dangerous materials included.

[KRMACK55]

Everyone knows this most people don’t care no need to post what’s on the news ! Especially him

[graciegirl]

Look into why the government and their cronies need to keep rewarding everyone who gets the dangerous vaccine. Nano particles and other dangerous materials included.

I am a teacher. That MUST be the reason I am COMPELLED to respond to this.

The gubmunt isn't offering the donuts and beer. Its the donuts and beer companies that are offering this. It is a GIMMICK.

I personally do not think there is much risk involved in getting these vaccines to trigger your body to build immunity to the Covid-19 virus which is MOST dangerous to folks over 70. Most deaths have been to older people. Most die of a dangerously new pneumonia that clogs the lungs with stuffy sticky mucous and makes it impossible for the body to get enough oxygen to survive.

This happens to OLDER People most of all, but being very sick is not limited to older people. NO ONE on this earth has met THIS particular virus before.

I am still amazed and astonished and delighted to see that the scientists in our WORLD were able to develop a vaccine that is VERY effective in such a short time.

We know that they did not start from scratch as much was known about the family of this virus. We do know that some side effects have been serious. It appears that clotting issues have happened with the Astra-Zeneca and Johnson and Johnson form of vaccine to a VERY FEW woman who appear to be younger and still ovulating.

I know I have not convinced you, or even got your attention. If you believe that it is dangerous, it is YOUR right to not take the jab.

My goal from the beginning was to keep my name and the names of anyone I love off the park benches that are scattered around The Villages.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Meanwhile, vaccine lotteries seem to be effective in getting people motivated to vaccinate. People who absolutely refuse to get one, will still not get one, and hey it's their funeral, at this point. Thoughts and prayers I guess, if they get sick and insurance companies finally get wise and say "nope, ain't gonna cover this."

But those who are on the fence, or who were thinking "yeah yeah I know I need to, maybe tomorrow" - will now have that nudge to "just do it" as they say in the Nike-verse.

[unialimon]

I am a teacher. That MUST be the reason I am COMPELLED to respond to this.

The gubmunt isn't offering the donuts and beer. Its the donuts and beer companies that are offering this. It is a GIMMICK.

I personally do not think there is much risk involved in getting these vaccines to trigger your body to build immunity to the Covid-19 virus which is MOST dangerous to folks over 70. Most deaths have been to older people. Most die of a dangerously new pneumonia that clogs the lungs with stuffy sticky mucous and makes it impossible for the body to get enough oxygen to survive.


This happens to OLDER People most of all, but being very sick is not limited to older people. NO ONE on this earth has met THIS particular virus before.

I am still amazed and astonished and delighted to see that the scientists in our WORLD were able to develop a vaccine that is VERY effective in such a short time.

We know that they did not start from scratch as much was known about the family of this virus. We do know that some side effects have been serious. It appears that clotting issues have happened with the Astra-Zeneca and Johnson and Johnson form of vaccine to a VERY FEW woman who appear to be younger and still ovulating.

I know I have not convinced you, or even got your attention. If you believe that it is dangerous, it is YOUR right to not take the jab.

My goal from the beginning was to keep my name and the names of anyone I love off the park benches that are scattered around The Villages.


Perhaps they knew what was coming well in advance. Teacher?

[Swoop]

Meanwhile, vaccine lotteries seem to be effective in getting people motivated to vaccinate. People who absolutely refuse to get one, will still not get one, and hey it's their funeral, at this point. Thoughts and prayers I guess, if they get sick and insurance companies finally get wise and say "nope, ain't gonna cover this."

But those who are on the fence, or who were thinking "yeah yeah I know I need to, maybe tomorrow" - will now have that nudge to "just do it" as they say in the Nike-verse.
So you think insurance companies shouldn’t cover people who don’t get vaccinated. Along the same lines, should insurance companies not cover you if you’re overweight? 87% of Covid deaths occurred among obese and overweight people. Overweight people are more prone to medical issues. Refusing to cover overweight people would probably save insurance companies a lot more money...

[GrumpyOldMan]

So you think insurance companies shouldn’t cover people who don’t get vaccinated. Along the same lines, should insurance companies not cover you if you’re overweight? 87% of Covid deaths occurred among obese and overweight people. Overweight people are more prone to medical issues. Refusing to cover overweight people would probably save insurance companies a lot more money...

It would help if people didn't assume negative intent and would comment on what was said and not an "interpretation" of what was said. At no point did the post referenced say they thought insurance companies "shouldn't" cover people.

Insurance companies are in business to make money, if they begin losing money to large numbers of cases requiring long-term expensive health care intervention, then the odds are they will "wise up" and charge more or refuse to cover.

[Swoop]

It would help if people didn't assume negative intent and would comment on what was said and not an "interpretation" of what was said. At no point did the post referenced say they thought insurance companies "shouldn't" cover people.

Insurance companies are in business to make money, if they begin losing money to large numbers of cases requiring long-term expensive health care intervention, then the odds are they will "wise up" and charge more or refuse to cover.
So, since insurance companies are in business to make money, and obese and overweight people cost them much more money than people who are not, are you suggesting insurance companies will “wise up” and refuse to insure, or start charging overweight people more for coverage?!?

[GrumpyOldMan]

So, since insurance companies are in business to make money, and obese and overweight people cost them much more money than people who are not, are you suggesting insurance companies will “wise up” and refuse to insure, or start charging overweight people more for coverage?!?

I am not the original poster you responded to, so I can only speak for myself.

I personally think Health Insurance is a crime. I think holding people's children's health hostage is a criminal and despicable act.

That said, I believe the health insurance companies will do whatever they can get away with to make more money. Period. Full Stop. Notice I did not mention if what they decide on is legal, I don't think that matters to them, it is simply yet another cost consideration in their decision making.

So, yes, I think insurance companies will do anything, including refusing to cover people, charging more, and dropping coverage for any reason they can come up with. I had a close friend that worked for an insurance company. She was in a department called "Loss Prevention". Her job was to find ways to NOT pay medical bill claims that would otherwise be covered by the policy. She was VERY good at her job.

[Aloha1]

Guess the beer companies think everyone drinks. I got both my Covid shots & I never got rewarded!

Yes, you did. With immunity!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

It would help if people didn't assume negative intent and would comment on what was said and not an "interpretation" of what was said. At no point did the post referenced say they thought insurance companies "shouldn't" cover people.

Insurance companies are in business to make money, if they begin losing money to large numbers of cases requiring long-term expensive health care intervention, then the odds are they will "wise up" and charge more or refuse to cover.

That's what I meant. Which is crazy, since that's also what I wrote. Amazing.

There's this funny little thing called "natural consequences." Some examples: If you bang your head hard enough on a brick wall, you just might end up with a cracked skull. That would be a natural consequence.

Another example: if you walk into a bank, unmasked, unarmed, and tell the bank teller out loud that you will need to rob her and for her to give over all her money, you'll most likely be arrested. Natural consequence.

Another example: if you cross the street without looking both ways during rush hour at a busy intersection, you will most likely be hit by a car, OR cause the cars around you to hit each other in the process of avoiding you. That's a natural consequence.

Action, reaction.

If enough people refuse to vaccinate, and have no valid medical reason to refuse, and in turn end up with COVID-19, the insurance companies might very well start saying "we will only cover your COVID-19 illness if you are either vaccinated, or have a valid medical reason for refusing."

And since they're the health insurance company, they get to decide what a "valid medical reason" is.

Natural consequence. It's not a threat, it's not a wish. It's just one of those things that are likely to happen as a reaction to an action.

[GrumpyOldMan]

That's what I meant. Which is crazy, since that's also what I wrote. Amazing.

There's this funny little thing called "natural consequences." Some examples: If you bang your head hard enough on a brick wall, you just might end up with a cracked skull. That would be a natural consequence.

Another example: if you walk into a bank, unmasked, unarmed, and tell the bank teller out loud that you will need to rob her and for her to give over all her money, you'll most likely be arrested. Natural consequence.

Another example: if you cross the street without looking both ways during rush hour at a busy intersection, you will most likely be hit by a car, OR cause the cars around you to hit each other in the process of avoiding you. That's a natural consequence.

Action, reaction.

If enough people refuse to vaccinate, and have no valid medical reason to refuse, and in turn end up with COVID-19, the insurance companies might very well start saying "we will only cover your COVID-19 illness if you are either vaccinated, or have a valid medical reason for refusing."

And since they're the health insurance company, they get to decide what a "valid medical reason" is.

Natural consequence. It's not a threat, it's not a wish. It's just one of those things that are likely to happen as a reaction to an action.

Like I said, you didn't say "should" you said "could" or might. But, it is "reasonable" that insurance. companies would take actions to protect their profects.

[Swoop]

That's what I meant. Which is crazy, since that's also what I wrote. Amazing.

There's this funny little thing called "natural consequences." Some examples: If you bang your head hard enough on a brick wall, you just might end up with a cracked skull. That would be a natural consequence.

Another example: if you walk into a bank, unmasked, unarmed, and tell the bank teller out loud that you will need to rob her and for her to give over all her money, you'll most likely be arrested. Natural consequence.

Another example: if you cross the street without looking both ways during rush hour at a busy intersection, you will most likely be hit by a car, OR cause the cars around you to hit each other in the process of avoiding you. That's a natural consequence.

Action, reaction.

If enough people refuse to vaccinate, and have no valid medical reason to refuse, and in turn end up with COVID-19, the insurance companies might very well start saying "we will only cover your COVID-19 illness if you are either vaccinated, or have a valid medical reason for refusing."

And since they're the health insurance company, they get to decide what a "valid medical reason" is.

Natural consequence. It's not a threat, it's not a wish. It's just one of those things that are likely to happen as a reaction to an action.

And if you keep eating foods high in carbohydrates and fat and don’t exercise regularly you’ll continue to gain weight, which makes you a much greater health risk...

“And since they're the health insurance company, they get to decide what a "valid medical reason" is.”

“Natural consequence. It's not a threat, it's not a wish. It's just one of those things that are likely to happen as a reaction to an action.”

[Saluce]

If the United States reaches the President's vaccination goal by the Fourth of July, Anheuser-Busch will buy all adults a round of beer.

Sounds patriotic to me - I wonder how long before this thread gets locked, it's a positive thread, not a complaint or political, but I am betting it lasts about a day - LOL!

(BTW: I don't drink anything - anymore - and don't recommend any does, but I think it is nice to see a company pitching in and trying to help)
Patriotic? Sounds like Bribery to me.

[jimjamuser]

So the assessment is....all it takes is to offer a free beer.

What does that indicate?!
It indicates 2 things. ( 1 )A company that is either getting (almost) free PR or wanting to do their civic duty and nudge US society into doing the RIGHT thing - maybe both are true. ( 2 ) A situation where people are waiting on the fence for something or someone to push them in a direction. Note that if ONE Corporation gives away one small reward, then maybe (?) it will influence MANY other Corporations to do the same RIGHT thing. Then, the rewards will be GREAT for a GREAT cause - what could be greater than the health of the country and the prevention of many American DEATHS and suffering!

[jimjamuser]

I never particularly liked A&B beers when I was drinking, but it's the gesture I appreciate. Corporate responsibility is so lacking today, any sign of it is refreshing.
Love that white dog! And I believe that Corporations, in general, are now getting better at taking social responsibility. Their customers are more involved and vocal on social media than ever before. Social medial has a powerful upside as well as a downside!

[jimjamuser]

According to The Villages Daily Sun only 55% of people over 55 in Sumter County have been vaccinated.
Appointments have not been necessary for a week or two now for all persons above the age of 12.
Apparently interest in vaccinations is on the wane.
OK and that is a VERY bad thing for humans and the US of A - and a VERY good thing for the mutating of the virus.

[jimjamuser]

1/3 of global beer market is AB/InBev a Belgian company.... they could put the vaccine in the beer - and solve the problem
I liked that one!!!!!!!!!!! Kudos!

[GrumpyOldMan]

Love that white dog! And I believe that Corporations, in general, are now getting better at taking social responsibility. Their customers are more involved and vocal on social media than ever before. Social medial has a powerful upside as well as a downside!

I think they are, but not just out of the kindness of their hearts.

Exxon just replaced two board members with climate change-friendly members because of promotion by a hedge fund with a growing number of climate-friendly members.

Once again, change in this country is, IMNSHO, almost entirely driven by money - in this case, climate-friendly retirees investing in a hedge fund to express their wants and desires via their money. While not a complete "'coup" it is a step in the right direcrtion.

[jimjamuser]

I can see the villagers lining up for free stuff now. and when they order, these cheapskates will ask "is this free?" and if these cheapskates get it for free, they will only leave a .50 cent tip....I get embarrassed by my friends, who are really cheapskates, and stiff waiters and waiters constantly.....I call them pikers.. they will order an ice tea, and charge it....
Sorry about your friends. Since it bothers you, maybe you should get NEW friends. As to the charge card usage, young people are moving away from cash to a cashless society. That trend won't be reversing any time soon!

[Bucco]

Love that white dog! And I believe that Corporations, in general, are now getting better at taking social responsibility. Their customers are more involved and vocal on social media than ever before. Social medial has a powerful upside as well as a downside!

You are so correct about social responsibility awakening with social media.

Used to be that the old Freidman philosophy about the only thing that counts is the money....that is changing with our younger folks and while seeing corporate INDIVIDUALS GAIN so much during COVID, I think there is an awakening that instead of so much stress on the shareholders and money......corporations are waking up and understanding the responsibility to society has been ignored. See the HUGE diversity in income and worth between different stratas and how it continues to grow wider....that is hard to ignore.

I grew up when the only thing that counted was the bottom line.......watching the happenings,I now think we are actually able to make a profit and also profit the world and the country at the same time.

It is hard with that "downside" being so loud to see the "upside" but I trust in our young people.

[Marty94]

Okay, I’m ready!

[GrumpyOldMan]

Okay, I’m ready!

I thought your hair was greyer :)

:bigbow:

[jimjamuser]

ABSOLUTELY inexcusable not to tip the wait staff in any restaurant. And to stiff them, is even worse. If I saw this happening, I would call them on it.
Personally, I would HOPE that someday soon the WHOLE idea of TIPPING is done away with. Just pay them normal wages like ALL other industries

[jimjamuser]

Free Beer! Well that changes everything!! Sure I’ll join the largest vaccine trial in history for a free beer! Forget the fact that no one has any idea of whether there will be long term health issues associated with these vaccines, we are talking about a FREE Beer!
And so the un-vaccinated people can JUST continue to INFECT and KILL each other and young children. Great. Just keep up that stubbornness.

[jimjamuser]

Look into why the government and their cronies need to keep rewarding everyone who gets the dangerous vaccine. Nano particles and other dangerous materials included.
Nobody REALLY believes that conspiracy theory.

[Swoop]

And so the un-vaccinated people can JUST continue to INFECT and KILL each other and young children. Great. Just keep up that stubbornness.
You do realize that children have accounted for less than 3/100’s of 1% of all Covid deaths...
Sorry to spoil your rant with actual facts...

[jimjamuser]

I am not the original poster you responded to, so I can only speak for myself.

I personally think Health Insurance is a crime. I think holding people's children's health hostage is a criminal and despicable act.

That said, I believe the health insurance companies will do whatever they can get away with to make more money. Period. Full Stop. Notice I did not mention if what they decide on is legal, I don't think that matters to them, it is simply yet another cost consideration in their decision making.

So, yes, I think insurance companies will do anything, including refusing to cover people, charging more, and dropping coverage for any reason they can come up with. I had a close friend that worked for an insurance company. She was in a department called "Loss Prevention". Her job was to find ways to NOT pay medical bill claims that would otherwise be covered by the policy. She was VERY good at her job.
The US needs Universal Health Care, not insurance companies trying to NOT pay for care and driving up Health Care costs with excessive paperwork and rules. Even Richard Nixon wanted Universal Health Care.

[jimjamuser]

You are so correct about social responsibility awakening with social media.

Used to be that the old Freidman philosophy about the only thing that counts is the money....that is changing with our younger folks and while seeing corporate INDIVIDUALS GAIN so much during COVID, I think there is an awakening that instead of so much stress on the shareholders and money......corporations are waking up and understanding the responsibility to society has been ignored. See the HUGE diversity in income and worth between different stratas and how it continues to grow wider....that is hard to ignore.

I grew up when the only thing that counted was the bottom line.......watching the happenings,I now think we are actually able to make a profit and also profit the world and the country at the same time.

It is hard with that "downside" being so loud to see the "upside" but I trust in our young people.
The US now has the largest wealth disparity in its history and the highest of the 1st world countries. It was NOT that way in the 1950s. It IS very dangerous because it could lead to a US Dictatorship.

[stanley]

And so the un-vaccinated people can JUST continue to INFECT and KILL each other and young children. Great. Just keep up that stubbornness.


Someone really needs to stop with the scare tactics.

[jimjamuser]

You do realize that children have accounted for less than 3/100’s of 1% of all Covid deaths...
Sorry to spoil your rant with actual facts...
ALL unvaccinated adults or children will be INFECTING and KILLING each other. Won't that be wonderful?

[stanley]

ALL unvaccinated adults or children will be INFECTING and KILLING each other. Won't that be wonderful?

See post 53

[jimjamuser]

Someone really needs to stop with the scare tactics.
It's ALL the truth my fine friend with a funny forehead.

[GrumpyOldMan]

ALL unvaccinated adults or children will be INFECTING and KILLING each other. Won't that be wonderful?

Uh, I hope you are kidding, because - uh, no. It would be horrible. While I may completely disagree with those that choose to not be vaccinated, and I think that they are putting others lives at risk, I would never wish them to die because of that.

[stanley]

It's ALL the truth my fine friend with a funny forehead.

Even sarcastically, please do not call me your friend, people might get the wrong idea

[GrumpyOldMan]

Someone really needs to stop with the scare tactics.

Because someone disagrees with you does not mean it is scare tactics or fear mongering. Many of us prefer information so we can make informed decisions.

[stanley]

Because someone disagrees with you does not mean it is scare tactics or fear mongering. Many of us prefer information so we can make informed decisions.

Where's the beef?

[New Englander]

Anybody that don't like/want the free Budweiser please send your unopened ration to me. Thank You

[ohiosbestus]

I am curious about your family beer makers. I was born and raised in Columbus Ohio. GO BUCKS !

[Bucco]

The US now has the largest wealth disparity in its history and the highest of the 1st world countries. It was NOT that way in the 1950s. It IS very dangerous because it could lead to a US Dictatorship.

Compounded by the fact that corporate execs, and those in the higher pay area, restructured their pays during the pandemic heights, insuring they lost nothing and in fact made more money while shuttering doors and laying off workers, expanding the disparity.

And those who "have" consider this a good thing, but you are correct......it is extremely dangerous.

CEO Pay Surged in a Year of Upheaval and Leadership Challenges - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-brought-the-economy-to-its-knees-but-ceo-pay-surged-11618142400)

C.E.O. Pay Remains Stratospheric, Even at Companies Battered by Pandemic - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/24/business/ceos-pandemic-compensation.html)

[jimjamuser]

Uh, I hope you are kidding, because - uh, no. It would be horrible. While I may completely disagree with those that choose to not be vaccinated, and I think that they are putting others lives at risk, I would never wish them to die because of that.
I don't wish the unvaccinated to die. It is just a fact that about 2% of them WILL die and some will suffer large amounts of pain and LARGE hospital bills. And some of them will be the unvaccinated children under 12 years of age. And there likely WILL be long term suffering for some of the unvaccinated. You can tell that this is happening because although DEATHS due to CV is down in the US, it is NOT zero. CV is NOT OVER yet in the US and the world. These are just FACTS that have nothing to do with me. I wish that CV had NEVER happened to anyone!

[jimjamuser]

Even sarcastically, please do not call me your friend, people might get the wrong idea
Sure, if you like. Then, I will just refer to you as the "man with the funny forehead". Sounds like the name of a James Bond movie!

[jimjamuser]

Compounded by the fact that corporate execs, and those in the higher pay area, restructured their pays during the pandemic heights, insuring they lost nothing and in fact made more money while shuttering doors and laying off workers, expanding the disparity.

And those who "have" consider this a good thing, but you are correct......it is extremely dangerous.

CEO Pay Surged in a Year of Upheaval and Leadership Challenges - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-brought-the-economy-to-its-knees-but-ceo-pay-surged-11618142400)

C.E.O. Pay Remains Stratospheric, Even at Companies Battered by Pandemic - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/24/business/ceos-pandemic-compensation.html)
Also, the heads of Colleges and Universities and their staffs have years ago decided that they should be paid like CEOs of corporations. Even college football coaches make 6 million / year. This has made colleges largely unaffordable to the average high school student with good grades and without extremely rich parents. It was NOT this way in the 1960s. Today college students take out LARGE loans that take some over 20 years to pay back. What this does overall to US society is decrease UPWARD MOBILITY and decrease QUALITY OF LIFE. The US is ranked around 30th in the world in these qualities today. England is about 11th. The US was in the top ten in the 50s and 60s. What happened........there are MANY details - but, overall the elitists (top 10%) won, and America LOST!!!!!!! That's one reason why Americans are having FEWER children now than in the 1950s.

[Swoop]

I don't wish the unvaccinated to die. It is just a fact that about 2% of them WILL die and some will suffer large amounts of pain and LARGE hospital bills. And some of them will be the unvaccinated children under 12 years of age. And there likely WILL be long term suffering for some of the unvaccinated. You can tell that this is happening because although DEATHS due to CV is down in the US, it is NOT zero. CV is NOT OVER yet in the US and the world. These are just FACTS that have nothing to do with me. I wish that CV had NEVER happened to anyone!
Fact: children have accounted for less than .23% of Covid deaths
Fact: 87 % of Covid deaths occurred among obese or overweight people
Fact: on average, those who died with Covid had 2 or more of - diabetes, heart disease, lung disease or hypertension.
Fact: no one knows what the long term effects of mRNA vaccines will be.

There is zero factual evidence that 2% of those who did not receive the vaccine will die from Covid...

Once again, sorry to spoil your rant with actual facts...

[jimjamuser]

Compounded by the fact that corporate execs, and those in the higher pay area, restructured their pays during the pandemic heights, insuring they lost nothing and in fact made more money while shuttering doors and laying off workers, expanding the disparity.

And those who "have" consider this a good thing, but you are correct......it is extremely dangerous.

CEO Pay Surged in a Year of Upheaval and Leadership Challenges - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-brought-the-economy-to-its-knees-but-ceo-pay-surged-11618142400)

C.E.O. Pay Remains Stratospheric, Even at Companies Battered by Pandemic - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/24/business/ceos-pandemic-compensation.html)
In addition to the excesses of corporate executives - for years College and University heads (and their staffs) have paid themselves OBSCENELY large salaries. This has changed society in favor of elitists and away from equality and democracy. Average-income families with students making good grades in high school are priced out of the higher education market. Many College graduates are left with large loans that take as much as 20 years to pay off. It was NOT this bad in the 1950s. The end result is that the US is around 30th in UPWARD MOBILITY on the world lists.

[rustyp]

Fact: children have accounted for less than 3/100’s of 1% of Covid deaths
Fact: 87 % of Covid deaths occurred among obese or overweight people
Fact: on average, those who died with Covid had 2 or more of - diabetes, heart disease, lung disease or hypertension.
Fact: no one knows what the long term effects of mRNA vaccines will be.

There is zero factual evidence that 2% of those who did not receive the vaccine will die from Covid...

Once again, sorry to spoil your rant with actual facts...

There are actual facts and internet facts. Where and how were the facts collected ? Who actually did the counting and was it a controlled study.

But even simpler is context. Take your 87% overweight / obese statistics accounts for 87% of Covid deaths. But what wasn't said is :
According to statistics, over 70% of Americans adults are either overweight or obese. Thus the rate of Covid deaths would be 70% were overweight people even without a correlation to weight.

In the world of statistics one should bear in mind the old adage "Figures don’t lie, but liars figure".

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

There are actual facts and internet facts. Where and how the facts where the facts collected ? Who actually did the counting and was it a controlled study.

But even simpler is context. Take your 87% overweight / obese statistics accounts for 87% of Covid deaths. But what wasn't said is :
According to statistics, over 70% of Americans adults are either overweight or obese. Thus the rate of Covid deaths would be overweight people even without a correlation to weight.

Yeah statistics are fun things. Like the children thing - how old is "child" by the statistic-collector's definition? Because, EVERYONE is someone's child. So are they talking legal minors under 16? Or anyone under the average age of puberty (12)? Or do they mean infants, toddlers, and newborns? And now that [political political political] are we including the children who haven't been born yet?

There are fewer people in this country that fall into the category of age (1-hour post-birth) to 12 years, than there are people that fall into the category of everyone else. So of course the percentage of kids who get sick and/or die from COVID-19 will be a fraction of the entire population of people who get sick and/or die from COVID-19.

[jimjamuser]

Fact: children have accounted for less than .23% of Covid deaths
Fact: 87 % of Covid deaths occurred among obese or overweight people
Fact: on average, those who died with Covid had 2 or more of - diabetes, heart disease, lung disease or hypertension.
Fact: no one knows what the long term effects of mRNA vaccines will be.

There is zero factual evidence that 2% of those who did not receive the vaccine will die from Covid...

Once again, sorry to spoil your rant with actual facts...
The unvaccinated are dying of CV right now as we speak. if you were correct then CV deaths would be zero by now. They are NOT. The world IS begging for the US to give them the vaccine. How can you explain that????? Are you saying that the world IS wrong and you ARE right? I don't think so! I think that Russian-originated conspiracy theories are undermining the intelligence and common sense of the unvaccinated American people. And some local TV Land people are pushing those conspiracies and they are being very vocal about it for SOME (?) unknown reason?

[Swoop]

There are actual facts and internet facts. Where and how were the facts collected ? Who actually did the counting and was it a controlled study.

But even simpler is context. Take your 87% overweight / obese statistics accounts for 87% of Covid deaths. But what wasn't said is :
According to statistics, over 70% of Americans adults are either overweight or obese. Thus the rate of Covid deaths would be 70% were overweight people even without a correlation to weight.

In the world of statistics one should bear in mind the old adage "Figures don’t lie, but liars figure".

Per the CDC, the odds of being hospitalized with Covid are tripled if you are obese.

[Swoop]

Yeah statistics are fun things. Like the children thing - how old is "child" by the statistic-collector's definition? Because, EVERYONE is someone's child. So are they talking legal minors under 16? Or anyone under the average age of puberty (12)? Or do they mean infants, toddlers, and newborns? And now that [political political political] are we including the children who haven't been born yet?

There are fewer people in this country that fall into the category of age (1-hour post-birth) to 12 years, than there are people that fall into the category of everyone else. So of course the percentage of kids who get sick and/or die from COVID-19 will be a fraction of the entire population of people who get sick and/or die from COVID-19.
Here, you can read it yourself:
https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

[Byte1]

Fact: children have accounted for less than .23% of Covid deaths
Fact: 87 % of Covid deaths occurred among obese or overweight people
Fact: on average, those who died with Covid had 2 or more of - diabetes, heart disease, lung disease or hypertension.
Fact: no one knows what the long term effects of mRNA vaccines will be.

There is zero factual evidence that 2% of those who did not receive the vaccine will die from Covid...

Once again, sorry to spoil your rant with actual facts...

As my favorite commercial says "Scoop, there it is!" We can all say "Swoop, there it is!"

[GrumpyOldMan]

Also, the heads of Colleges and Universities and their staffs have years ago decided that they should be paid like CEOs of corporations. Even college football coaches make 6 million / year. This has made colleges largely unaffordable to the average high school student with good grades and without extremely rich parents. It was NOT this way in the 1960s. Today college students take out LARGE loans that take some over 20 years to pay back. What this does overall to US society is decrease UPWARD MOBILITY and decrease QUALITY OF LIFE. The US is ranked around 30th in the world in these qualities today. England is about 11th. The US was in the top ten in the 50s and 60s. What happened........there are MANY details - but, overall the elitists (top 10%) won, and America LOST!!!!!!! That's one reason why Americans are having FEWER children now than in the 1950s.

When the US Government decided to subsidize college tuition the colleges became for-profit and went insane raising tuition on the backs of students.

I am totally in favor of private colleges charging ANYTHING they want/

And state colleges/universities being no tuition. Investing in education is always a valuable investment. Burying students in debt is always a bad thing.

In my not so humble opinion.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Here, you can read it yourself:
https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

I'm not going to download a full report just to find out what constitutes "children" in their results. That's the job of whoever posts something and claims that it's a fact. If you claim something is a fact, it's up to you to support it. Copy and paste the sentences that define "children" in the report. Or don't, and then my supposition is just as valid as yours.

[Swoop]

I'm not going to download a full report just to find out what constitutes "children" in their results. That's the job of whoever posts something and claims that it's a fact. If you claim something is a fact, it's up to you to support it. Copy and paste the sentences that define "children" in the report. Or don't, and then my supposition is just as valid as yours.
It’s 0-17, feel free to read the report, it’s very enlightening...

[stanley]

It’s 0-17, feel free to read the report, it’s very enlightening...

Yes, "read" it doesn't need to be "downloaded".

[Topspinmo]

If the United States reaches the President's vaccination goal by the Fourth of July, Anheuser-Busch will buy all adults a round of beer.

Sounds patriotic to me - I wonder how long before this thread gets locked, it's a positive thread, not a complaint or political, but I am betting it lasts about a day - LOL!

(BTW: I don't drink anything - anymore - and don't recommend any does, but I think it is nice to see a company pitching in and trying to help)

Especially foreign owned company.


Not for me, Beer gives me gas, especially Budweiser.

[Topspinmo]

And so the un-vaccinated people can JUST continue to INFECT and KILL each other and young children. Great. Just keep up that stubbornness.

No, the can get vaccinated. Plenty vaccine to go around.

[Topspinmo]

So, since insurance companies are in business to make money, and obese and overweight people cost them much more money than people who are not, are you suggesting insurance companies will “wise up” and refuse to insure, or start charging overweight people more for coverage?!?

IMO single pay, all private insurance should be outlawed. That way I could go to any doctor or practice and not have to wonder who paying them off just to accept their insurance.

[jimjamuser]

IMO single pay, all private insurance should be outlawed. That way I could go to any doctor or practice and not have to wonder who paying them off just to accept their insurance.
I agree - single pay. The US is about the only country that does NOT have Universal Health Care. The insurance companies in the US took over health care historically around the depression era - when wage controls were put in place by the Federal Government - then to get around that, US Corporations paid for health insurance to recruit high-value employees. Thus, today only the US uses an insurance-based health care system, which is inefficient and does NOT follow the individual employee from job to job. It is a confusing and inefficient system.

[JMintzer]

I agree - single pay. The US is about the only country that does NOT have Universal Health Care. The insurance companies in the US took over health care historically around the depression era - when wage controls were put in place by the Federal Government - then to get around that, US Corporations paid for health insurance to recruit high-value employees. Thus, today only the US uses an insurance-based health care system, which is inefficient and does NOT follow the individual employee from job to job. It is a confusing and inefficient system.

Be careful what you wish for...

[Byte1]

Be careful what you wish for...

Those that keep asking for socialism, aka gov run health care have never lived in a country that has it. If they knew how much EVERYONE's payroll deduction is to pay for it, and saw how it is implemented in those other countries, they would be grateful for our great country. Yes, we do need some form of insurance reform, such as open state border shopping for insurance. And tort reform so that doctors didn't have to pay hundreds of thousands a year in malpractice premiums.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Those that keep asking for socialism, aka gov run health care have never lived in a country that has it. If they knew how much EVERYONE's payroll deduction is to pay for it, and saw how it is implemented in those other countries, they would be grateful for our great country. Yes, we do need some form of insurance reform, such as open state border shopping for insurance. And tort reform so that doctors didn't have to pay hundreds of thousands a year in malpractice premiums.


Doctors insurance is an insignificant drop in the bucket called "healthcare" in this country.

Those "other countries" aren't very specific, but the US is behind in almost every healthcare outcome statistic - infant mortality, cost, accessibility, and all.

And what we lack in outcomes we make up by paying 2 1/2 times what most single-payer government-provided healthcare systems in the rest of the first world pay.

I certainly can appreciate there are bad systems out there, and I am certain most/some of them are socialist. But, if you are talking about the best of the best, we, our great country that used to be at the top of the list is now in 17th place in the world concerning healthcare.

[JMintzer]

Doctors insurance is an insignificant drop in the bucket called "healthcare" in this country.

Those "other countries" aren't very specific, but the US is behind in almost every healthcare outcome statistic - infant mortality, cost, accessibility, and all.

And what we lack in outcomes we make up by paying 2 1/2 times what most single-payer government-provided healthcare systems in the rest of the first world pay.

I certainly can appreciate there are bad systems out there, and I am certain most/some of them are socialist. But, if you are talking about the best of the best, we, our great country that used to be at the top of the list is now in 17th place in the world concerning healthcare.

Who is doing the ranking?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Who is doing the ranking?

There are numerous reports that all say basically the same thing - from WHO, UN, AMA, and here is a link to the Common Wealth Fund study.

Multinational Comparisons of Health Systems Data, 2019 | Commonwealth Fund (https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/other-publication/2020/jan/multinational-comparisons-health-systems-data-2019)

[lkagele]

I am vaccinated but i would not get vaccinated for a donut or a beer. Would you?

These “give aways” are a form of advertising for companies.

What kind of beer or donut?

[lkagele]

The US needs Universal Health Care, not insurance companies trying to NOT pay for care and driving up Health Care costs with excessive paperwork and rules. Even Richard Nixon wanted Universal Health Care.

Just what we need. The government running health insurance. Everyone knows the government is so cost conscious and proficient in running all the programs it manages.

[Byte1]

I don't know how they rate our health care system, but I do know what I have experienced overseas and I do know how much folks in other countries PAY for their gov run fiasco. Like standing in lines for months to get treated or even examined? Do you like being put in a ward for days, that resembles living in a military barracks (with curtains) instead of a private room.....or even a shared room? Do you mind paying at least half of your paycheck in payroll deductions, when you are supposed to be middle class and have to live like our lower class earners? Before looking at the grass on the other side of the fence, thinking it is tastier....try living it before moving.
An interesting publication (kind of old by now) regarding world health care, compares health care and costs of many countries in the world. The publication is called "The Grass Is Not Always Greener" from the CATO Institute, I believe. I'm sure there will be those that wish to "politically" disparage the old publication, but I found it to be interesting none the less.
I also find it interesting that Canadians come to our country for treatment. I have a niece that is a nurse in Canada that comes to our country for treatment. Makes one wonder what she knows. Her mother died of cancer back in the late '70s, having had trouble getting treated in Canada. Not saying that she might have survived if treated earlier.
Yes, we need a better system. But, I would NEVER EVER want the gov to run or manage our health care, based on their track record.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Just what we need. The government running health insurance. Everyone knows the government is so cost conscious and proficient in running all the programs it manages.

So let’s fix the government it used to work and could again if we bought it back from big business. The of government is to serve the people not the other way around.

[Byte1]

What has happened to America's dignity when they can be bribed with a beer and a burger to get them vaccinated? You would think that it's worth at least a carton of smokes and a pizza. You get at least that for your vote come election time.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I don't know how they rate our health care system, but I do know what I have experienced overseas and I do know how much folks in other countries PAY for their gov run fiasco. Like standing in lines for months to get treated or even examined? Do you like being put in a ward for days, that resembles living in a military barracks (with curtains) instead of a private room.....or even a shared room? Do you mind paying at least half of your paycheck in payroll deductions, when you are supposed to be middle class and have to live like our lower class earners? Before looking at the grass on the other side of the fence, thinking it is tastier....try living it before moving.
An interesting publication (kind of old by now) regarding world health care, compares health care and costs of many countries in the world. The publication is called "The Grass Is Not Always Greener" from the CATO Institute, I believe. I'm sure there will be those that wish to "politically" disparage the old publication, but I found it to be interesting none the less.
I also find it interesting that Canadians come to our country for treatment. I have a niece that is a nurse in Canada that comes to our country for treatment. Makes one wonder what she knows. Her mother died of cancer back in the late '70s, having had trouble getting treated in Canada. Not saying that she might have survived if treated earlier.
Yes, we need a better system. But, I would NEVER EVER want the gov to run or manage our health care, based on their track record.

I have also been to several countries and have never experienced what you describe. I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying it varies from country to country.

For example, I am having significant dental work done in Ecuador, bone graphs for jaw reconstruction, 5 implants, bridges, sinus surgery and more. No waiting, 1/4 the cost, $6000 vs $24000 here, and that $6000 includes 3 round trip flights, AirBnB while there and food, etc. the work being done is as good or better than here.

My wife and I considered migrating to Ecuador when we found their government provided healthcare covers everything including dental and optical and would cost us about $97/mth. Oh and there is no deductible.

As to how they rate it our healthcare system. That is pretty easy, the number of cases of infant mortality are publicly reported. Take that number per capita and our infant mortally is higher than any other industrialized country. Number of cases of heart attacks per capita and outcome, or deaths, is also higher.

And we pay 2.5 times more than people with universal healthcare even when taking into account the amount they pay in taxes to provide the healthcare.

[JMintzer]

There are numerous reports that all say basically the same thing - from WHO, UN, AMA, and here is a link to the Common Wealth Fund study.

Multinational Comparisons of Health Systems Data, 2019 | Commonwealth Fund (https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/other-publication/2020/jan/multinational-comparisons-health-systems-data-2019)

Political organizations, all of them...

[JMintzer]

I have also been to several countries and have never experienced what you describe. I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying it varies from country to country.

For example, I am having significant dental work done in Ecuador, bone graphs for jaw reconstruction, 5 implants, bridges, sinus surgery and more. No waiting, 1/4 the cost, $6000 vs $24000 here, and that $6000 includes 3 round trip flights, AirBnB while there and food, etc. the work being done is as good or better than here.

My wife and I considered migrating to Ecuador when we found their government provided healthcare covers everything including dental and optical and would cost us about $97/mth. Oh and there is no deductible.

As to how they rate it our healthcare system. That is pretty easy, the number of cases of infant mortality are publicly reported. Take that number per capita and our infant mortally is higher than any other industrialized country. Number of cases of heart attacks per capita and outcome, or deaths, is also higher.

And we pay 2.5 times more than people with universal healthcare even when taking into account the amount they pay in taxes to provide the healthcare.

Where do you think the R&D for those procedures occurred?

What will you do when there is a medical mistake made?

Yes, medical tourism is a thing, but not without significant risks...

10 Hidden Dangers of Medical Tourism - Sciencebeta (https://sciencebeta.com/medical-tourism/)

[chet2020]

Those that keep asking for socialism, aka gov run health care have never lived in a country that has it. If they knew how much EVERYONE's payroll deduction is to pay for it, and saw how it is implemented in those other countries, they would be grateful for our great country. Yes, we do need some form of insurance reform, such as open state border shopping for insurance. And tort reform so that doctors didn't have to pay hundreds of thousands a year in malpractice premiums.

Of course countries with single payer have payroll deductions to pay for health care, just like we have deductions for private health insurance and Medicare. I'm semi-retired and pay $1,800/month COBRA until we are eligible for Medicare. Prior to that, we paid $300/month out-of-pocket for the plan, the employer paid the $1,500/month. But that $1,500 was essentially coming out of my paycheck also, because that money was not available to me as salary. So the question is, if I got $1,800/month extra in salary, what would my deduction be for single-payer healthcare? I think it would be substantially less than $1,800/month.

And that's a COBRA plan with a group rate. If I go out on the market, who knows if I can even get health insurance?

I don't think private health insurance enthusiasts need to worry, we won't be going to single payer in my lifetime. Well, except Medicare, which I thought was a good program that worked out nicely for my Mom.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Where do you think the R&D for those procedures occurred?

What will you do when there is a medical mistake made?

Yes, medical tourism is a thing, but not without significant risks...

10 Hidden Dangers of Medical Tourism - Sciencebeta (https://sciencebeta.com/medical-tourism/)

R&D leadership is also a thing of the past in the US sadly. US Healthcare industry is totally LASER focused on finding the most profitable form of "treatment" of issues, and almost no "cures" have been found in decades. For an example, look at the recent "innovative" research into Alzheimer's. 35% chance of complications that can be fatal, and no evidence it cures, stops, or even slows the disease. But, it does affect one of the signs of the disease (plaque buildup on the brain), and it does cost $56,000 per year. Almost $5,000 per month. You know WHY they can charge $5,000/mth. You would know if you know anyone that has gone through having a relative with Alzheimer's.

This is the essence of predatory capitalism. Extorting as much as possible from people. The FDA approval to sell this drug even states there is no significant evidence to support it for treatment. But, people are so desperate for something, that the FDA is going to allow this company to extort a fortune from the victims for years while it runs more studies to see if it MIGHT help.$5,000/mth for something that might help, maybe. For the rest of their lives.

In any case, more R&D is being done around the world into innovative medical technologies than in the US.

As an ex-CEO of a healthcare company said recently, "There is NO money in finding cures, you can only sell the cure to a person once., the real profit is in treating things, you can sell patients treatments for the rest of their lives".

Yeah, I want to trust my healthcare to people with that attitude.

And if my dentist makes a mistake I will fly back to Ecuador and he will correct it. He hasn't and I am not worried. If it becomes a life and death emergency, I will go to the VA healthcare facility and have it taken care of. If it is not life-threatening a round-trip ticket to Ecuador is $450. I can make 3 round trips there for the cost of one crown here ($1200). A crown in Ecuador is $400. Less than one round trip ticket.

I have in the past PAID US prices for dental work and had negative outcomes, and I am not certain, but I doubt ANYONE has ever died from a botched crown.

[stanley]

I have also been to several countries and have never experienced what you describe. I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying it varies from country to country.

For example, I am having significant dental work done in Ecuador, bone graphs for jaw reconstruction, 5 implants, bridges, sinus surgery and more. No waiting, 1/4 the cost, $6000 vs $24000 here, and that $6000 includes 3 round trip flights, AirBnB while there and food, etc. the work being done is as good or better than here.

My wife and I considered migrating to Ecuador when we found their government provided healthcare covers everything including dental and optical and would cost us about $97/mth. Oh and there is no deductible.

As to how they rate it our healthcare system. That is pretty easy, the number of cases of infant mortality are publicly reported. Take that number per capita and our infant mortally is higher than any other industrialized country. Number of cases of heart attacks per capita and outcome, or deaths, is also higher.

And we pay 2.5 times more than people with universal healthcare even when taking into account the amount they pay in taxes to provide the healthcare.

You're using Ecuador as an example of great national health care? Is that what you are saying?

[GrumpyOldMan]

You're using Ecuador as an example of great national health care? Is that what you are saying?

I am saying even a very poor (broke) country like Ecuador manages to provide universal healthcare for its citizens. And they take it one step further, If you want to move there, you don't have to be a citizen, you don't have to have paid into the system all your life, you can join at the same rates would citizens get. (They also expats who are not citizens to vote - ahem...)

I could have compared the US to the other 17 first-world industrialized countries that ALL provide better healthcare at less than 1/2 the cost Americans pay. But, why bother.

Ecuador is an excellent example of what is possible.

Immigrants and expatriates from the United States to Ecuador are mostly retirees who take advantage of social services. It is estimated that about 5,000 to 10,000 American expatriates now live in the country.

Have you lived there? Or is your opinion based on news articles by the media?

[Bucco]

I am saying even a very poor (broke) country like Ecuador manages to provide universal healthcare for its citizens. And they take it one step further, If you want to move there, you don't have to be a citizen, you don't have to have paid into the system all your life, you can join at the same rates would citizens get. (They also expats who are not citizens to vote - ahem...)

I could have compared the US to the other 17 first-world industrialized countries that ALL provide better healthcare at less than 1/2 the cost Americans pay. But, why bother.

Ecuador is an excellent example of what is possible.

Immigrants and expatriates from the United States to Ecuador are mostly retirees who take advantage of social services. It is estimated that about 5,000 to 10,000 American expatriates now live in the country.

Have you lived there? Or is your opinion based on news articles by the media?

Many Americans seem to look down on other countries, and ignore our own "warts". Based on what, I am not sure.

We need to improve a lot in our country and forget making fun of others...better use of our time.

[stanley]

Have you lived there? Or is your opinion based on news articles by the media?

Where did I opine? I just asked a question.
Why are so many "people" confrontational?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Where did I opine? I just asked a question.
Why are so many "people" confrontational?

I took your question and confrontational, I apologize if that was not your intent.

And to directly answer, NO I am not saying Ecuador is an exam ple of a GREAT healthcare system, I am saying it is an example of something that is better than what we have.

[JMintzer]

R&D leadership is also a thing of the past in the US sadly. US Healthcare industry is totally LASER focused on finding the most profitable form of "treatment" of issues, and almost no "cures" have been found in decades. For an example, look at the recent "innovative" research into Alzheimer's. 35% chance of complications that can be fatal, and no evidence it cures, stops, or even slows the disease. But, it does affect one of the signs of the disease (plaque buildup on the brain), and it does cost $56,000 per year. Almost $5,000 per month. You know WHY they can charge $5,000/mth. You would know if you know anyone that has gone through having a relative with Alzheimer's.

This is the essence of predatory capitalism. Extorting as much as possible from people. The FDA approval to sell this drug even states there is no significant evidence to support it for treatment. But, people are so desperate for something, that the FDA is going to allow this company to extort a fortune from the victims for years while it runs more studies to see if it MIGHT help.$5,000/mth for something that might help, maybe. For the rest of their lives.

In any case, more R&D is being done around the world into innovative medical technologies than in the US.

As an ex-CEO of a healthcare company said recently, "There is NO money in finding cures, you can only sell the cure to a person once., the real profit is in treating things, you can sell patients treatments for the rest of their lives".

Yeah, I want to trust my healthcare to people with that attitude.

And if my dentist makes a mistake I will fly back to Ecuador and he will correct it. He hasn't and I am not worried. If it becomes a life and death emergency, I will go to the VA healthcare facility and have it taken care of. If it is not life-threatening a round-trip ticket to Ecuador is $450. I can make 3 round trips there for the cost of one crown here ($1200). A crown in Ecuador is $400. Less than one round trip ticket.

I have in the past PAID US prices for dental work and had negative outcomes, and I am not certain, but I doubt ANYONE has ever died from a botched crown.

You continue to make these outlandish claims with nothing to back them up...

Un-freakin'-believable...

[JMintzer]

I am saying even a very poor (broke) country like Ecuador manages to provide universal healthcare for its citizens. And they take it one step further, If you want to move there, you don't have to be a citizen, you don't have to have paid into the system all your life, you can join at the same rates would citizens get. (They also expats who are not citizens to vote - ahem...)

I could have compared the US to the other 17 first-world industrialized countries that ALL provide better healthcare at less than 1/2 the cost Americans pay. But, why bother.

Ecuador is an excellent example of what is possible.

Immigrants and expatriates from the United States to Ecuador are mostly retirees who take advantage of social services. It is estimated that about 5,000 to 10,000 American expatriates now live in the country.

Have you lived there? Or is your opinion based on news articles by the media?

More unsubstantiated claims...

[JMintzer]

Where did I opine? I just asked a question.
Why are so many "people" confrontational?

It comes from being Grumpy all of the time...

[SkBlogW]

R&D leadership is also a thing of the past in the US sadly. US Healthcare industry is totally LASER focused on finding the most profitable form of "treatment" of issues, and almost no "cures" have been found in decades.

In any case, more R&D is being done around the world into innovative medical technologies than in the US.

As an ex-CEO of a healthcare company said recently, "There is NO money in finding cures, you can only sell the cure to a person once., the real profit is in treating things, you can sell patients treatments for the rest of their lives".

Yeah, I want to trust my healthcare to people with that attitude.



Yikes...So US healthcare and R & D sucks compared to the rest of the world?

Lets see, the two best and most effective vaccines for Covid were designed and developed in the USA, at warp speed, and we can't keep up with demand for these vaccines from the rest of world. You may save $500 a crown going to Ecuador, but the world is not going there for anything serious.

Traveled much? Wealthy people from every country on earth come to the USA for the most advanced treatments and surgeries. Believe me, they are not flocking to Quito Ecuador if they need the most advanced cardiac or cancer treatments.

I'm sorry, but you are spouting military grade stupidity.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Yikes...So US healthcare and R & D sucks compared to the rest of the world?

Lets see, the two best and most effective vaccines for Covid were designed and developed in the USA, at warp speed, and we can't keep up with demand for these vaccines from the rest of world. You may save $500 a crown going to Ecuador, but the world is not going there for anything serious.

Traveled much? Wealthy people from every country on earth come to the USA for the most advanced treatments and surgeries. Believe me, they are not flocking to Quito Ecuador if they need the most advanced cardiac or cancer treatments.

I'm sorry, but you are spouting military grade stupidity.

I thought there was something about not attacking people and calling them names.

You are WRONG, in so many ways, but your insults make you not worth even talking to.

[GrumpyOldMan]

For anyone thinking that Pfizer developed the COVID vaccine, it was actually developed in partnership with BioNTech a German company (funded by Germany - not operation warp speed) that is credited for contributing the messenger RNA technology, which prompts the body to make a key protein from the virus, creating an immune response.

[Bay Kid]

Free pot in Washington State if you get the shot. What a country, free beer, pot. What is next?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Free pot in Washington State if you get the shot. What a country, free beer, pot. What is next?

Are you saying it is a bad thing? If so why?

[SkBlogW]

For anyone thinking that Pfizer developed the COVID vaccine, it was actually developed in partnership with BioNTech a German company (funded by Germany - not operation warp speed) that is credited for contributing the messenger RNA technology, which prompts the body to make a key protein from the virus, creating an immune response.

I don't think you understand how Operation warp speed worked. Here's a clue, it wasn't called Operation warp money. The government did offer vaccine R&D funding, which some smaller companies like Moderna accepted. In return, the government would get a little better price if and when vaccine was approved. Pfizer, who have more money than God, did not take the funding since they have tremendous amounts of capital, and wanted to protect their profits if their vaccine worked. I guess that makes them guilty of "predatory capitalism" :icon_wink:

The reason Operation warp speed worked so well is because the government cleared all the bureaucratic hurdles that caused previous vaccine development to take 10 years. The government also incentivized vaccine developers by committing to billions of dollars of orders for any vaccine approved. More "predatory capitalism" or something.

PS The key breakthrough that led to synthetic MRNA vaccine technology was developed by two scientists/Doctors at the University of Pennsylvania. USA

[Neils]

A shot with a beer chaser at the bar was popular in my younger days.
😂 lol

No drinking anymore. I am too old now.

[fishon]

The vaccine is so popular bribes have to be offered for people to get vaccinated.
170 healthcare workers at a Houston, Texas hospital has been put on two week leave for refusing to get the vaccinations.
Mighty popular vaccine we have here.

[GrumpyOldMan]

The vaccine is so popular bribes have to be offered for people to get vaccinated.
170 healthcare workers at a Houston, Texas hospital has been put on two week leave for refusing to get the vaccinations.
Mighty popular vaccine we have here.

Your post seems to imply something negative because of companies offering incentives. "Bribes".

And I was not aware that vaccines were part of a popularity contest.

You base your medical decisions on popularity? Interesting.

[Bucco]

The vaccine is so popular bribes have to be offered for people to get vaccinated.
170 healthcare workers at a Houston, Texas hospital has been put on two week leave for refusing to get the vaccinations.
Mighty popular vaccine we have here.

Shame on WHO ?

[JMintzer]

Your post seems to imply something negative because of companies offering incentives. "Bribes".

And I was not aware that vaccines were part of a popularity contest.

You base your medical decisions on popularity? Interesting.

You base your's on emotion and politics... VERY interesting...

[GrumpyOldMan]

You base your's on emotion and politics... VERY interesting...

See, there you go again, making assumptions about others' motivation.

Read my posts, I say one thing over and over. I discuss everything with my PCP and do what she says. PERIOD.

So, wrong, your characterization of me is completely wrong.

[JMintzer]

See, there you go again, making assumptions about others' motivation.

Read my posts, I say one thing over and over. I discuss everything with my PCP and do what she says. PERIOD.

So, wrong, your characterization of me is completely wrong.

Yet when you post something like this: "Your post seems to imply something negative..."

You know, making ASSumptions about what others post, it's just fine...

[GrumpyOldMan]

Yet when you post something like this: "Your post seems to imply something negative..."

You know, making ASSumptions about what others post, it's just fine...

Notice I said, "seems to imply", where you and others constantly tell me exactly what I am saying, and are wrong. By saying "seems to imply", I am asking if I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I am explaining what I think you are saying and you are welcome to correct me.

And if you look at my posts you will see I have no problem, when someone does clarify and show I misunderstood, saying, "I apologize, I misunderstood you".

How often have you said that? Just asking, not accusing you of anything.

[Bay Kid]

Are you saying it is a bad thing? If so why?

Sorry you don't see a problem with giving out free illegal drugs.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Sorry you don't see a problem with giving out free illegal drugs.

What?

The thread is about giving out Beer and Donuts as an incentive to get people to get the vaccination?

There was a comment about Marijuana somewhere in here also, but MJ is not illegal in this state, you simply have to have a license - sort of like driving a car requires a license.

[JMintzer]

Notice I said, "seems to imply", where you and others constantly tell me exactly what I am saying, and are wrong. By saying "seems to imply", I am asking if I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I am explaining what I think you are saying and you are welcome to correct me.

And if you look at my posts you will see I have no problem, when someone does clarify and show I misunderstood, saying, "I apologize, I misunderstood you".

How often have you said that? Just asking, not accusing you of anything.

I only tell you you're wrong when you're wrong! Not my fault you are wrong so often!

[GrumpyOldMan]

I only tell you you're wrong when you're wrong! Not my fault you are wrong so often!

Well, I apologize for not being perfect, I am glad you are.

[JMintzer]

Well, I apologize for not being perfect, I am glad you are.

Yeah... I thought I was wrong once... Turns out I was mistaken...

[Bay Kid]

What?

The thread is about giving out Beer and Donuts as an incentive to get people to get the vaccination?

There was a comment about Marijuana somewhere in here also, but MJ is not illegal in this state, you simply have to have a license - sort of like driving a car requires a license.

Washington state giving free pot to get a shot. Beer, donuts and now pot.

[TNLAKEPANDA]

I rarely ever drink beer but when I do it’s not Budweiser!

[GrumpyOldMan]

Washington state giving free pot to get a shot. Beer, donuts and now pot.

Good to hear - Too bad Florida still considers booze safe and pot dangerous.

[Get real]

I guess they think if they get you drunk or high enough you will do dangerous things. :loco:

[jimjamuser]

Doctors insurance is an insignificant drop in the bucket called "healthcare" in this country.

Those "other countries" aren't very specific, but the US is behind in almost every healthcare outcome statistic - infant mortality, cost, accessibility, and all.

And what we lack in outcomes we make up by paying 2 1/2 times what most single-payer government-provided healthcare systems in the rest of the first world pay.

I certainly can appreciate there are bad systems out there, and I am certain most/some of them are socialist. But, if you are talking about the best of the best, we, our great country that used to be at the top of the list is now in 17th place in the world concerning healthcare.
I agree! Everyone should look at the world list for qualities like "infant mortality" and "Quality of Life". The US results are NOT favorable. We are ranked around 30th in MANY important qualities. The average person could learn a lot from these world rankings. They ought to be taught from middle school onward. There could be debate and comparison with the US in the 1950s. It could help offset ethnocentrism, which is an unreasonable attitude that ONLY your country is BEST. The US has the BEST Universities in the world, but its middle class remains somewhat uneducated. We have the best Doctors and Medical Research facilities in the world, but VERY poor HEALTH outcomes for the average US citizen - and high costs also. The worst of both worlds. But our lobbyists and health INSURANCE EXECUTIVES are FAT CITY!!!! And College football coaches bring home 6 MILLION/ year! We sure have our priorities right.

[jimjamuser]

Just what we need. The government running health insurance. Everyone knows the government is so cost conscious and proficient in running all the programs it manages.
Actually, the V.A. and mediCare are VERY efficient programs.

[JMintzer]

Actually, the V.A. and mediCare are VERY efficient programs.

Yeah... Medicare is quite efficient at denying claims...

And the VA has been quite efficient at making veterans wait for months, if not years, for appointments and treatments...

[jimjamuser]

I don't know how they rate our health care system, but I do know what I have experienced overseas and I do know how much folks in other countries PAY for their gov run fiasco. Like standing in lines for months to get treated or even examined? Do you like being put in a ward for days, that resembles living in a military barracks (with curtains) instead of a private room.....or even a shared room? Do you mind paying at least half of your paycheck in payroll deductions, when you are supposed to be middle class and have to live like our lower class earners? Before looking at the grass on the other side of the fence, thinking it is tastier....try living it before moving.
An interesting publication (kind of old by now) regarding world health care, compares health care and costs of many countries in the world. The publication is called "The Grass Is Not Always Greener" from the CATO Institute, I believe. I'm sure there will be those that wish to "politically" disparage the old publication, but I found it to be interesting none the less.
I also find it interesting that Canadians come to our country for treatment. I have a niece that is a nurse in Canada that comes to our country for treatment. Makes one wonder what she knows. Her mother died of cancer back in the late '70s, having had trouble getting treated in Canada. Not saying that she might have survived if treated earlier.
Yes, we need a better system. But, I would NEVER EVER want the gov to run or manage our health care, based on their track record.
People come from Canada to the US for SPECIALIZED treatment because we are a bigger country than they are. Our University Hospitals are excellent. But, still, in general, the US is BELOW Canada in health care for the average citizen.

[jimjamuser]

I don't know how they rate our health care system, but I do know what I have experienced overseas and I do know how much folks in other countries PAY for their gov run fiasco. Like standing in lines for months to get treated or even examined? Do you like being put in a ward for days, that resembles living in a military barracks (with curtains) instead of a private room.....or even a shared room? Do you mind paying at least half of your paycheck in payroll deductions, when you are supposed to be middle class and have to live like our lower class earners? Before looking at the grass on the other side of the fence, thinking it is tastier....try living it before moving.
An interesting publication (kind of old by now) regarding world health care, compares health care and costs of many countries in the world. The publication is called "The Grass Is Not Always Greener" from the CATO Institute, I believe. I'm sure there will be those that wish to "politically" disparage the old publication, but I found it to be interesting none the less.
I also find it interesting that Canadians come to our country for treatment. I have a niece that is a nurse in Canada that comes to our country for treatment. Makes one wonder what she knows. Her mother died of cancer back in the late '70s, having had trouble getting treated in Canada. Not saying that she might have survived if treated earlier.
Yes, we need a better system. But, I would NEVER EVER want the gov to run or manage our health care, based on their track record.
I would prefer that you refrained from voting now while you are alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NoMoSno]

Actually, the V.A. and mediCare are VERY efficient programs.
With $billions per year in Medicare fraud, I wouldn't say it's an efficient program.

[Byte1]

What?

The thread is about giving out Beer and Donuts as an incentive to get people to get the vaccination?

There was a comment about Marijuana somewhere in here also, but MJ is not illegal in this state, you simply have to have a license - sort of like driving a car requires a license.

I believe it is STILL federally ILLEGAL, no?

[jimjamuser]

Many Americans seem to look down on other countries, and ignore our own "warts". Based on what, I am not sure.

We need to improve a lot in our country and forget making fun of others...better use of our time.
The words for it are jingoism and ethnocentrism!

[Byte1]

Going back to the comment about socialized medicine being soooo great in third world countries, let me reply using my experience at having LIVED in other countries, not visited on vacation or flying there for a medical treatment. We are speaking of what the citizens or residents get when they are "given" such a great socialist opportunity.
First off, lets mention payroll deductions again. It is not just some fee they are paying for their so-called "free" health care. It is a percentage of their paycheck. Germany pays about 55% of their wages in payroll taxes, not to mention sales and VAT, plus other taxes. You want to see what socialism does to the middle class? Try living in those "great" free countries.
Regarding the idea of running to other countries for your operations. Yes, I know a guy that had both his hips replaced in Columbia. I think it only cost him about $7,000. Good deal, but I wonder how many natives of Columbia can even afford that much.
India will replace your knee for about $7K including the airlines ticket. That's a deal that is a few years old, so I am not sure how much it is now. Would you go to India and get anything done, regardless of how great the surgeon is? It is one of the nastiest, dirtiest countries in the world. Check out how they live. Sure, I had an Xray that only cost me $4. I was an American and walked to the front of the line. Americans get treated better in these other countries than the locals.
You think their systems are better? That is so naive. I call folks in America ignorant in their "great" education because they are so arrogant to think that they know how other countries live. The key word in this is "LIVED IN" those other countries. It is fact that our low income earners live as well as supposed middle class in many other countries, including European countries. Socialism eliminates the middle class, period. When it comes to medical treatment, someone mentioned how all these other countries have those that can afford it, fly to the U.S. for treatment. If it is so expensive here, why do they rush over here for treatment? Ask my niece that lives in Canada. She's a nurse and comes here for treatment. One problem they have there is long lines. Her mother died of cancer in Canada probably because it took so long to get an appointment and then longer again to get treatment started.
I have been to hospitals in other countries that had dark hallways with no lighting, broken windows, family had to bring blankets and food. Sure, not all of them are like that, but beware what you wish for.
Live in a socialized medicine country before "knowing" all about it. I don't know it all, but I have lived most of my life in other countries. I'll take expensive health care here over those countries.

[Byte1]

People come from Canada to the US for SPECIALIZED treatment because we are a bigger country than they are. Our University Hospitals are excellent. But, still, in general, the US is BELOW Canada in health care for the average citizen.

I disagree and so does everyone in my family that lives in Canada. Then again, perhaps the "average citizen" does not need to utilize their health care system. How many years did you live in Canada? Maybe you have more experience in this than I do.

[Byte1]

Good to hear - Too bad Florida still considers booze safe and pot dangerous.

Both are dangerous, but beer is legal. Why argue?

[JMintzer]

Wait time for tx by NHS in England...

NHS waiting list hits 14 year record high of 4.7 million people | The BMJ (https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n995)

Hospital waiting times at worst-ever level - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-50397856)

A if you think it's only due to covid, here's info from 2019, BEFORE covid...

NHS performance and waiting times | The Health Foundation (https://www.health.org.uk/publications/long-reads/nhs-performance-and-waiting-times)

[Byte1]

An interesting but dated publication from the CATO institute compares health care in many countries "The Grass Is Not Always Greener" I think I already posted a reference to it, now that I think about it. It kind of reinforces what I have said many times.
We have excellent medical technology and professionals. The problem with expense is more in line with the regulations, which restricts competition of insurance companies; humongous malpractice insurance premiums; high drugs costs compared to what other countries pay for the same medications, etc. Tort reform would probably be a good start.
Remember, other countries are smaller. Also remember that because the cost in other countries providing for socialized health care, they must fund it by high taxation. I do not care about HOW someone rates our country, because I have lived in other countries and experienced thru the locals how their so-called "FREE" health care works.
I never said our health care system is perfect, but I would rather be here in an emergency or major illness than anywhere else in the world. Those that have only vacationed or "cruised" to other ports have no clue as to how their systems work. Sure, being able to go to a pharmacy and asking for an antibiotic without a prescription is pretty neat, especially when it only costs about $4-7 for a weeks supply.
Ask yourself this: would you give up being middle class for gov managed FREE health care? Maybe if you were dying.

[jimjamuser]

Yikes...So US healthcare and R & D sucks compared to the rest of the world?

Lets see, the two best and most effective vaccines for Covid were designed and developed in the USA, at warp speed, and we can't keep up with demand for these vaccines from the rest of world. You may save $500 a crown going to Ecuador, but the world is not going there for anything serious.

Traveled much? Wealthy people from every country on earth come to the USA for the most advanced treatments and surgeries. Believe me, they are not flocking to Quito Ecuador if they need the most advanced cardiac or cancer treatments.

I'm sorry, but you are spouting military grade stupidity.
Yes, on world lists the US is WAY behind the Scandinavian countries and Switzerland etc on health care getting to its citizens.

[jimjamuser]

I disagree and so does everyone in my family that lives in Canada. Then again, perhaps the "average citizen" does not need to utilize their health care system. How many years did you live in Canada? Maybe you have more experience in this than I do.
Can you say the measuring yardstick of world lists that rate the US lower than Canada. They study many families statistically NOT just your SMALL numbers. So YOU FEEL THAT WAY but THE world DOES not. I believe the WORLD!!!!!!!!

[GrumpyOldMan]

Both are dangerous, but beer is legal. Why argue?

Both are dangerous?

"Excessive alcohol use is responsible for more than 95,000 deaths in the United States each year, or 261 deaths per day. These deaths shorten the lives of those who die by an average of almost 29 years, for a total of 2.8 million years of potential life lost."

Here is a summary of several studies - for those that don't want to wade through this, the bottom line is there are NO deaths in the US attributable to MJ.

This study went further and consider ALL deaths that MJ could have contributed to:

Bottom line:

"After adjusting for confounders, including alcohol use, cigarette smoking, and demographic factors, individuals who reported using cannabis, but not other substances (i.e., cocaine, heroin, hallucinogens, inhalants), at baseline were not at increased risk of all-cause mortality compared with individuals who reported not using cannabis or other substances at baseline"

This is by the NIH:

Injury and Death - The Health Effects of Cannabis and Cannabinoids - NCBI Bookshelf (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK425742/)

[GrumpyOldMan]

Going back to the comment about socialized medicine being soooo great in third world countries, let me reply using my experience at having LIVED in other countries, not visited on vacation or flying there for a medical treatment. We are speaking of what the citizens or residents get when they are "given" such a great socialist opportunity.
First off, lets mention payroll deductions again. It is not just some fee they are paying for their so-called "free" health care. It is a percentage of their paycheck. Germany pays about 55% of their wages in payroll taxes, not to mention sales and VAT, plus other taxes. You want to see what socialism does to the middle class? Try living in those "great" free countries.
Regarding the idea of running to other countries for your operations. Yes, I know a guy that had both his hips replaced in Columbia. I think it only cost him about $7,000. Good deal, but I wonder how many natives of Columbia can even afford that much.
India will replace your knee for about $7K including the airlines ticket. That's a deal that is a few years old, so I am not sure how much it is now. Would you go to India and get anything done, regardless of how great the surgeon is? It is one of the nastiest, dirtiest countries in the world. Check out how they live. Sure, I had an Xray that only cost me $4. I was an American and walked to the front of the line. Americans get treated better in these other countries than the locals.
You think their systems are better? That is so naive. I call folks in America ignorant in their "great" education because they are so arrogant to think that they know how other countries live. The key word in this is "LIVED IN" those other countries. It is fact that our low income earners live as well as supposed middle class in many other countries, including European countries. Socialism eliminates the middle class, period. When it comes to medical treatment, someone mentioned how all these other countries have those that can afford it, fly to the U.S. for treatment. If it is so expensive here, why do they rush over here for treatment? Ask my niece that lives in Canada. She's a nurse and comes here for treatment. One problem they have there is long lines. Her mother died of cancer in Canada probably because it took so long to get an appointment and then longer again to get treatment started.
I have been to hospitals in other countries that had dark hallways with no lighting, broken windows, family had to bring blankets and food. Sure, not all of them are like that, but beware what you wish for.
Live in a socialized medicine country before "knowing" all about it. I don't know it all, but I have lived most of my life in other countries. I'll take expensive health care here over those countries.

That is wonderful information, except you don't mention WHICH countries you lived in and provide nothing except opinions. WHO and the UN and others do studies every year of healthcare outcomes and cost. And the US is falling every year. PERIOD. US Cost is going up EVERY YEAR. Period.

And I believe you were referring to my posts, and I never said Socialized medicine was great, I said there are 17 countries in which socialized, or single-payer centuries have better outcomes for a lower cost - 2 1/2 times lower cost. You provide any evidence of your claims and name your countries, and I will be glad to flood the system with reports and studies confirming my claims.

And I believe I said my wife and I were considering immigration and we live in a country in Ecuador for about 6 months. And I also said, I considered Ecuador to be a 3rd world country, not a first world industrialized country. Ecuador is BROKE and has a lot of problems, but they still do more than the US for their citizens and anyone else living there.

However, the first-world industrialized countries I am referring to do much better.

And I am very happy for you, that you can afford Healthcare in the US. 35 million people do not have access to ANY healthcare insurance in the US except emergency rooms - which YOUR TAXES pay for. 50% of bankruptcies in the US are associated with healthcare bills. Companies are going out of business because they can not afford to provide healthcare insurance for their employees. And on and on.

Maybe if you lived more in the US you would know more about how bad our predatory capitalistic healthcare system is.

I am not talking about someone coming here to get a million-dollar facelift of boob job, I am talking about a mother working 3 jobs to try and buy medication for her children. " I call folks in America ignorant in their "great" education because they are so arrogant to think that they know how other countries live" I will expand and say some Americans are so arrogant because they are fortunate enough to afford the extortionate/extortionist cost so the American healthcare system while the majority of Americans go to bed knowing they are just one accident away from bankruptcy.

In fact I will go first, here is ONE site that links to numerous other sites, and provides detailed information on rankings of countries in healthcare:

U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective, 2019 | Commonwealth Fund (https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019)