They want a 8” Cross removed?

[Buckeye Bleau]

Well this should start a conversation.
Did you know that one of the Districts governance bodies is suing a resident over a very small white cross in their yard?
They should start a go fund me page to fight this.

Resident says HOA in The Villages is suing her for displaying cross, lawn ornaments (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/a-small-cross-is-causing-big-controversy-in-the-villages?fbclid=IwAR0h7toflmc8LNzI3Ixz6GXxIJPupe5R 4yPYoLouSXkgUJxvNAEwYouL4FQ)

[JSR22]

Well this should start a conversation.
Did you know that one of the Districts governance bodies is suing a resident over a very small white cross in their yard?
They should start a go fund me page to fight this.

Resident says HOA in The Villages is suing her for displaying cross, lawn ornaments (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/a-small-cross-is-causing-big-controversy-in-the-villages?fbclid=IwAR0h7toflmc8LNzI3Ixz6GXxIJPupe5R 4yPYoLouSXkgUJxvNAEwYouL4FQ)

Lawn ornaments are not allowed by the deed restrictions we signed when we moved to TV. We do not have an HOA.

[drcar]

Well this should start a conversation.
Did you know that one of the Districts governance bodies is suing a resident over a very small white cross in their yard?
They should start a go fund me page to fight this.

Resident says HOA in The Villages is suing her for displaying cross, lawn ornaments (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/a-small-cross-is-causing-big-controversy-in-the-villages?fbclid=IwAR0h7toflmc8LNzI3Ixz6GXxIJPupe5R 4yPYoLouSXkgUJxvNAEwYouL4FQ)

They are getting sued for NOT following the deed restrictions, not because it is a cross. They can put the cross on the porch, in full view, problem solved.

[kathyspear]

Anyone know what village she lives in? Up here in the NE almost everyone has lawn ornaments of one kind or another, including many crosses.

kathy

[drcar]

Anyone know what village she lives in? Up here in the NE almost everyone has lawn ornaments of one kind or another, including many crosses.

kathy

Restrictions are different in each district. They live in District 8.

[Two Bills]

Is that 8" above the ground, or are the cross rebels hiding some of it below ground level?:icon_wink:

[Elaine Dickinson]

Lawn ornaments are not allowed by the deed restrictions we signed when we moved to TV.

All dogs are required to be on a leash at all times, dogs are not allowed off leash on any athletic field or other public areas. Not allowing pets to play and walk on common area landscaping. Owner is responsible for picking up after pet, please take all waste home for disposal.

I see this rule broken often. Or do we get to pick and choose which rules we want to follow.

[Ben Franklin]

When you move into a deeded, or an HMO community, you have to give up certain rights. Personally, I don't care about lawn ornaments, but the deed restrictions are agreed upon when you sign your papers. I'd love to see personal expressions in people's yards, as long as they're not rusted out cars, boats, RVs... Would you accept it if your next door neighbor put 8" Gnomes on their lawn. I'd like to know, because I have several Gnomes, that I'd like to display.

[JSR22]

All dogs are required to be on a leash at all times, dogs are not allowed off leash on any athletic field or other public areas. Not allowing pets to play and walk on common area landscaping. Owner is responsible for picking up after pet, please take all waste home for disposal.

I see this rule broken often. Or do we get to pick and choose which rules we want to follow.
We follow the pet rules and do not have any lawn ornaments.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Restrictions are different in every area, read yours. Everyone agrees to the covenant when they buy. She did too. She is now complaining because she doesn't want to live by the rules.

Also, MANY people have a cross in their yard and are not sued. Enforcement is because someone complained. I expect this is not about her having a cross in her years, but the "real" story is she p133ed someone off about something else and they reported her to get even.

I personally don't care if people want small a small cross in their yard, it is against the covenant technically, but as long as it does not make the neighborhood look trashy and reduce our resale value, they I have no problem with it.

[Bogie Shooter]

Well this should start a conversation.
Did you know that one of the Districts governance bodies is suing a resident over a very small white cross in their yard?
They should start a go fund me page to fight this.

Resident says HOA in The Villages is suing her for displaying cross, lawn ornaments (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/a-small-cross-is-causing-big-controversy-in-the-villages?fbclid=IwAR0h7toflmc8LNzI3Ixz6GXxIJPupe5R 4yPYoLouSXkgUJxvNAEwYouL4FQ)
I guess you missed this the first time around, there were 158 posts.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/small-white-crosses-310508/?highlight=White+cross

Enjoy!

[vintageogauge]

All dogs are required to be on a leash at all times, dogs are not allowed off leash on any athletic field or other public areas. Not allowing pets to play and walk on common area landscaping. Owner is responsible for picking up after pet, please take all waste home for disposal.

I see this rule broken often. Or do we get to pick and choose which rules we want to follow.

You have the opportunity to turn in the violator, if you do not the violations will continue. Doesn't matter which rule is broken, rules are rules. I have turned in people that allow their dogs to run loose, they were contacted but still don't use a leash, I call them "The Elite" to this class of people rules and regulations are meaningless.

[vintageogauge]

I received a letter from the law firm yesterday stating that my tenant had a lawn ornament in the front of the house, it was a metal bird like so many homes have. I contacted my tenants and they removed the item, they also talked with the attorney's office to fully understand the complain and were told that they received 65 anonymous complaints from the same person, that would be a professional troll.

[asianthree]

I received a letter from the law firm yesterday stating that my tenant had a lawn ornament in the front of the house, it was a metal bird like so many homes have. I contacted my tenants and they removed the item, they also talked with the attorney's office to fully understand the complain and were told that they received 65 anonymous complaints from the same person, that would be a professional troll.

Yet so many swear clipboard trolls don’t exist. Now you have it in writing, yes they do.

[roob1]

The tenants "were TOLD" by attorney's office.

Sounds like hearsay to me.....

And even if they do exist...who cares? Follow rules and they will have nothing to report, right?

Yet so many swear clipboard trolls don’t exist. Now you have it in writing, yes they do.

[Velvet]

I bought where I am because I am ok with our deed restrictions. There is a couple of sand crane statues in some people’s landscape but everyone seems to be happy with them so I don’t even know if they are against the rules. When we were driving on Morse bridge there were a couple of birds on the grass. I was thinking how life like they were, just like these statues around here and then the birds started walking!

[Stu from NYC]

Yet so many swear clipboard trolls don’t exist. Now you have it in writing, yes they do.

The two old biddies are out and about doing what they do best not minding their own business.

[Irishmen]

They are getting sued for NOT following the deed restrictions, not because it is a cross. They can put the cross on the porch, in full view, problem solved.

legit compromise here.

[Mortal1]

Anyone know what village she lives in? Up here in the NE almost everyone has lawn ornaments of one kind or another, including many crosses.

kathy

apples and oranges(NE vs. the villages), but it makes no sense. Not in the least.

[kathyspear]

apples and oranges(NE vs. the villages), but it makes no sense. Not in the least.

I was referring to the NE section of The Villages, not of the US. (Specifically, we are north of 466 and east of Chula Vista.)

k.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I bought where I am because I am ok with our deed restrictions. There is a couple of sand crane statues in some people’s landscape but everyone seems to be happy with them so I don’t even know if they are against the rules. When we were driving on Morse bridge there were a couple of birds on the grass. I was thinking how life like they were, just like these statues around here and then the birds started walking!

Sand crane statues are against the covenant. I have two and will gladly take them down if anyone complains - they just tell me, and I will. about 25% of the houses in my neighborhood have them.

[GrumpyOldMan]

apples and oranges(NE vs. the villages), but it makes no sense. Not in the least.

There are lawn ornaments almost everywhere. They are against the covenant, but the covenant is only enforced if someone complains.

Sadly, if you have some and you annoy someone online they can complain and you will have to take them down.

[KAM+6]

Last February we were on our Saturday morning yard sale tour and noticed a house in Duval that had Halloween, Christmas and Valentine's decorations all over their yard at the same time. How tacky is that!

[Bogie Shooter]

Last February we were on our Saturday morning yard sale tour and noticed a house in Duval that had Halloween, Christmas and Valentine's decorations all over their yard at the same time. How tacky is that!

Book’em Dano!

[Blueblaze]

My entire neighborhood put flags on their lawn last Memorial Day. I put 12 there myself. Were we in compliance with the CDD? Didn't check. Don't really care.

I guess I'm fortunate to live in a neighborhood where people like to get together on projects like that. My neighbors seem more worried about enjoying their retirement and being liked by their neighbors, than worrying about what little doo-dad their neighbor has in their garden, just so they can report them to lawn ornament police.

When governments, especially small governments, make rules, they're always draconian. That's because fellow citizens don't want to sit in judgement as the designated hair splitter, and the lawyers don't want any ambiguity if they have to go to court.

The lawn ornament thing is there to prevent people from erecting giant monstrosities on their lawn that hurt property values. It wasn't written to prevent your tender eyes from observing a small religious artifact that you happen to find offensive. But you're certainly within your rights and the letter of the law to report the offender and have offensive the object removed. And a chorus of like-minded souls on this forum are sure to whip our their deed restrictions and remind us that we all agreed to be ruled by the most petty among us, and rules are rules.

I'd just ask how your happy retirement is going -- the one where you paid a bundle to live close to other happy retired people -- if you find your neighbors so offensive that you'd turn them in for something as trivial as an 8" cross in their garden.

[asianthree]

The tenants "were TOLD" by attorney's office.

Sounds like hearsay to me.....

And even if they do exist...who cares? Follow rules and they will have nothing to report, right?

You are replying to the wrong poster, not my rental, have no insight if they spoke to attorney or not. Please read post, then respond. We have been in TV since 07, know the rules, with all 3 of our houses. My post was about those who think the clipboard people are a figment of imaginations.

[Marathon Man]

There are lawn ornaments almost everywhere. They are against the covenant, but the covenant is only enforced if someone complains.

Sadly, if you have some and you annoy someone online they can complain and you will have to take them down.

Sadly, if you have some, you have chosen to violate a contract that you placed your signature on. And, since you are aware that you are in violation, your integrity is in question.

[Pillowtalk]

Rules are made to even the playing field…the rules are in place to protect everyone. What makes people think that they can break the rules? How about if I leave my boat in my driveway? Simply put your cross in your backyard for your own enjoyment.

[Kgcetm]

Shouldn’t start any conversations. This topic is worn out. The homeowner is in violation of district restrictions. They are guilty. The homeowner should remove the cross, wait 30 days then put it back up. It may or may not start the process again. If it does, then repeat.

I learned this trick after complaining multiple times that a neighbor was in violation with a lawn full of Hillary signs. They would take them down for a few days then put them back up.
Each. complaint opens a new ticket which takes 90 days to pursue.

[cj1040]

All dogs are required to be on a leash at all times, dogs are not allowed off leash on any athletic field or other public areas. Not allowing pets to play and walk on common area landscaping. Owner is responsible for picking up after pet, please take all waste home for disposal.

I see this rule broken often. Or do we get to pick and choose which rules we want to follow.

I was at a Villages postal station recently and the odor coming from the trash can was horrible. Dog owners should carry the poop home and flush it away. That is one of the downsides of having a dog at the Villages if you are not on your own property.

[Tsalla Apopka]

What if it was an 8" tall SWAZTICA or an 8" tall phallus??
What would the discussion be then?
The Covenant's, anywhere, are there for a reason.

[collegeref]

What’s good for the gander is good for the goose 😂😂

[richs631]

They are getting sued for NOT following the deed restrictions, not because it is a cross. They can put the cross on the porch, in full view, problem solved.

Trust me folks. Who ever made the complaint was targeting her because it’s a cross. Anti Christian is gunning for her and using the villages CDD to do it. The CDD painted themselves into a corner that I’m sure they regret. I doubt very much the person who made the complaint even lives in the villages

[lkagele]

My entire neighborhood put flags on their lawn last Memorial Day. I put 12 there myself. Were we in compliance with the CDD? Didn't check. Don't really care.

You're allowed seasonal decorations for up to 30 days.

White cross lady should celebrate January for 30 days, take the cross down for a day and then celebrate February for 30 days. Rinse and repeat twelve times a year celebrating each month.

Or, buy a planter for some flowers and paint a cross on the planter.

Or, cut down a palm tree but leave a 2' stump on which to place a flower planter. Carve a cross in the stump.

Religious expression can take many different forms and you don't necessarily have to create a problem when alternatives exist.

[jimkerr]

If you don’t like the lawn ornament rules just move to the historic side. You can do whatever you want there apparently. I’ve seen cars on blocks with junk all over bushes that the homeowner was using as a table. He had rags, car parts, brooms, all on top of his bushes.

When we rented up there it easily swayed us to move south.

[Skunky1]

Put the cross in the backyard. Problem solved!

[cafw1]

A violation is a violation---period. Stop trying to draw attention to something that's unimportant when YOU violated the rules. If the so called trolls want to keep our neighborhoods looking good I say thank you to them.

[Altavia]

False complaints are also made.

The system should require the complainer to provide as much information in writing as it takes to make a change as verification.

[VApeople]

What if it was an 8" tall SWAZTICA or an 8" tall phallus??

That would be OK with me.

If it were a swastika, I would assume they were Buddhist of Hindu.

The Buddhist Swastika | Reclaiming Zen (https://reclaimingzen.com/the-buddhist-swastika/)

If it was a phallus, I would assume they were celebrating this Japanese festival.

Japan's Annual ***** Festival Is As Phallic As You'd Expect (PHOTOS) | HuffPost (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/japan-*****-festival-kanamara-matsuri_n_5106378)

[Tcole]

A rule is a rule no?

If this resident was pulled over for speeding because she was late to Sunday church service, would she not pay the ticket? Would she believe she was targeted because the officer was camped out waiting for speeders?

Would Fox 35 then report she was pulled over for going to Church Service?

Seems that If you violate a rule, which is sometimes worth it given the situation, you simply pay a price for the violation.

[cafw1]

Yet so many swear clipboard trolls don’t exist. Now you have it in writing, yes they do.

A violation is a violation---period. What difference does it make who reported it? If the so called trolls dedicate themselves to keeping our neighborhoods looking good I say Thank You. Stop trying to divert attention from the real problem---that being YOU violated the rules.

[Larchap49]

They are getting sued for NOT following the deed restrictions, not because it is a cross. They can put the cross on the porch, in full view, problem solved.

Come on there is some sort of bird statue ornament, bird bath, or other ornament on a pole in the yard of at least 50 percent of homes. Also the likeness of the resident pet on lots of light poles. I'm willing to bet it is exactly because it is a cross given todays climate in this country. Please hang it on the light pole and let us know if the suit goes away. I bet not.

[asianthree]

Trust me folks. Who ever made the complaint was targeting her because it’s a cross. Anti Christian is gunning for her and using the villages CDD to do it. The CDD painted themselves into a corner that I’m sure they regret. I doubt very much the person who made the complaint even lives in the villages

Nope 65 complaints had, wagons, metal birds, garden flags, bicycle planter, many different statues and yes some crosses.

So an old rumor on how the complaints started was, a new person at a certain village, had a display of statues and a cross, on their front lawn. It was mentioned that it was not allowed and should be removed, unless it was durning the holiday season.
Complaint was sent and said items had to be removed in x amount of days or a fine would be enforced.

That person in turn decided to make it her life’s mission to report everyone she could find as a get even for having to remove her lawn ornaments.
If true they do a great job, most time there are 65 to over a hundred complaints turned in by the same person(s), in different villages.
Some districts have made changes to the process that a name of complaints made public no longer anonymous.

By theory if a complaints turned in had a fee of say $5 each, you would see a drastic decline to the some call clipboard lady. Again this is a said rumor, but there is someone out there diving in a village today filing out complaints on village residents

[Dantes]

I bet they wouldn’t tell me to remove my BLM flag or Muslim Flag. Maybe we should all try it then sue them we need to stand up to this

[Marathon Man]

Having previously lived in CDD-8 and regularly attended board meetings, I am familiar with this situation.

This is not about freedom of religion. This is about defiance. "YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT I CAN AND CAN NOT HAVE IN MY YARD".

It is truly that simple. The owners of the property refuse to abide by the deed restrictions simply because they don't want to.

[Larchap49]

The tenants "were TOLD" by attorney's office.

Sounds like hearsay to me.....

And even if they do exist...who cares? Follow rules and they will have nothing to report, right?

We care because in history The growth of Nazi power had a lot to do with friends, neighbors, and even family reporting everything they believed contrary to officials, and our youth being brain washed in our schools, and so it begins. Looks at the history then look at the news. It's right there in the open not just in TV. Oh yeah you will have to look at the real news not CNN, wsnbc, cbs, etc.

[golfing eagles]

Nope 65 complaints had, wagons, metal birds, garden flags, bicycle planter, many different statues and yes some crosses.

So an old rumor on how the complaints started was, a new person at a certain village, had a display of statues and a cross, on their front lawn. It was mentioned that it was not allowed and should be removed, unless it was durning the holiday season.
Complaint was sent and said items had to be removed in x amount of days or a fine would be enforced.

That person in turn decided to make it her life’s mission to report everyone she could find as a get even for having to remove her lawn ornaments.
If true they do a great job, most time there are 65 to over a hundred complaints turned in by the same person(s), in different villages.
Some districts have made changes to the process that a name of complaints made public no longer anonymous.

By theory if a complaints turned in had a fee of say $5 each, you would see a drastic decline to the some call clipboard lady. Again this is a said rumor, but there is someone out there diving in a village today filing out complaints on village residents

I don't think it's a good idea to make the complainer's name public, there might be reprisals. But I do think that deed compliance should ask for the Village ID # of the person complaining, and if she doesn't live within say 500 yards of the home she is complaining about, they should tell her where to stuff her complaint.

[asianthree]

A violation is a violation---period. What difference does it make who reported it? If the so called trolls dedicate themselves to keeping our neighborhoods looking good I say Thank You. Stop trying to divert attention from the real problem---that being YOU violated the rules.

Again being attacked for mentioning the rumor of the clipboard lady. I have 3 homes in TV, and have been here since 07. I don’t even have pots in my yards, only the planting TV put in when homes were built. So insinuating I am in violation of paperwork, I actually read and signed with each home purchased is just lashing out on a poster making light of said rumor.

[DaleDivine]

Put the cross in the backyard. Problem solved!

Front yard, back yard(unless it's a courtyard villa or veranda that's fenced in), side yard, still a violation. Hang it on the wall on the front porch.
:ohdear::ohdear:

[rlcooper70]

The issue with religious symbols is that even though we are a Christian country we want all others to be comfortable. If 90% of the yards have crosses ... the message for others comes across and "you're not one of us" and that's not The Villages. Perhaps religion can be inside and not outside?

[Jokomo]

Last February we were on our Saturday morning yard sale tour and noticed a house in Duval that had Halloween, Christmas and Valentine's decorations all over their yard at the same time. How tacky is that!

One man’s tack is another man’s art. And that’s really why the deed restrictions are in place. They regulate without regard to content, because otherwise regulating would be impossible. The regs don’t target any ornament based on sex, race or religion. The target location.

[PennBF]

The white cross is a violation of the rules in some CDD's. A more basic question is why are the owner, renters, etc. placing them in their yards? Is it to brag they are Christians? There are countries who fight religious wars" and those that fight for "land". The white crosses are not a peaceful sign. Just ask your Jewish or Muslim Neighbor! What if they start placing their religious signs in their lawns and even bigger than the white crosses And then the white crosses being made larger to match of beat them. Welcome to the mid East or some Asian countries! These are not just some yard ornament but rather statements that in some cases are hostile. I would hope our values far exceed this display of hostile behavior and favor respecting our neighbor's and laying down our swords for plow shares. :pray:

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Anyone know what village she lives in? Up here in the NE almost everyone has lawn ornaments of one kind or another, including many crosses.

kathy

Not south of cr 466.

[MrFlorida]

Why do people move into a community with rules and restrictions, and then complain about rules and restrictions ?

[PennBF]

Where are the churches in this discussion? Do any of you remember in the old days hearing the song, "Give Me That Old Time Religion"? Well it may be time!:popcorn:

[golfing eagles]

Why do people move into a community with rules and restrictions, and then complain about rules and restrictions ?

Why do people buy the cheapest nosebleed seats at a stadium and then complain they can't see the game?
Why do people buy the cheapest clunker of a used car then complain when it breaks down?
Why do people buy a home adjacent to the Florida Turnpike then complain about the noise?

People just like to gamble with what they can get away with, and then, after failing, get to complain

[John41]

Well this should start a conversation.
Did you know that one of the Districts governance bodies is suing a resident over a very small white cross in their yard?
They should start a go fund me page to fight this.

Resident says HOA in The Villages is suing her for displaying cross, lawn ornaments (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/a-small-cross-is-causing-big-controversy-in-the-villages?fbclid=IwAR0h7toflmc8LNzI3Ixz6GXxIJPupe5R 4yPYoLouSXkgUJxvNAEwYouL4FQ)

Put some ivy around the cross then it is a trellis and allowed.
One small lawn ornament should be allowed for every home. Change the deed restrictions.

[merrymini]

Nope 65 complaints had, wagons, metal birds, garden flags, bicycle planter, many different statues and yes some crosses.

So an old rumor on how the complaints started was, a new person at a certain village, had a display of statues and a cross, on their front lawn. It was mentioned that it was not allowed and should be removed, unless it was durning the holiday season.
Complaint was sent and said items had to be removed in x amount of days or a fine would be enforced.

That person in turn decided to make it her life’s mission to report everyone she could find as a get even for having to remove her lawn ornaments.
If true they do a great job, most time there are 65 to over a hundred complaints turned in by the same person(s), in different villages.
Some districts have made changes to the process that a name of complaints made public no longer anonymous.

By theory if a complaints turned in had a fee of say $5 each, you would see a drastic decline to the some call clipboard lady. Again this is a said rumor, but there is someone out there diving in a village today filing out complaints on village residents

Why should people pay a fee when YOU are the one breaking with the rules? Maybe the penalty should be paid by the people who do not follow the rules. That would certainly stop people from putting all the junk on their front lawns. Put it in your back yard!

[trishaf]

She could put it in the window and end the hassle. It it was a planter shaped as a cross that would probably be acceptable.

[wiltma]

Well this should start a conversation.
Did you know that one of the Districts governance bodies is suing a resident over a very small white cross in their yard?
They should start a go fund me page to fight this.

Resident says HOA in The Villages is suing her for displaying cross, lawn ornaments (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/a-small-cross-is-causing-big-controversy-in-the-villages?fbclid=IwAR0h7toflmc8LNzI3Ixz6GXxIJPupe5R 4yPYoLouSXkgUJxvNAEwYouL4FQ)
white cross. Don't know why Christians/Catholics feel they have to put their faith/cross in everyones face. Practice your beliefs in acts of kindness and then they will know what you believe .

[golfing eagles]

white cross. Don't know why Christians/Catholics feel they have to put their faith/cross in everyones face. Practice your beliefs in acts of kindness and then they will know what you believe .

That would be nice, but for those that are devoutly religious it would not point out the difference between Christianity and humanitarianism

[butlerism]

My solution. Put 50 crosses all over the place.
Spray paint one in the street at 2 am.
Jackasses

[butlerism]

Gnomes....creepy

[butlerism]

Is it a cross to bear, or a bear to cross. Sounds like the latter.
Remind everyone too much time to dwell, breeds stupidity

[mulligan]

All dogs are required to be on a leash at all times, dogs are not allowed off leash on any athletic field or other public areas. Not allowing pets to play and walk on common area landscaping. Owner is responsible for picking up after pet, please take all waste home for disposal.

I see this rule broken often. Or do we get to pick and choose which rules we want to follow.

That's not a deed restriction. It's a county ordinance.

[Velvet]

white cross. Don't know why Christians/Catholics feel they have to put their faith/cross in everyones face. Practice your beliefs in acts of kindness and then they will know what you believe .

Now this remark is generally not correct about either Catholics or Christians. Perhaps about a few of them.

Some people feel they need to be in your face about basically anything they want. Especially politics or religion. They seem completely unconcerned about what your reaction might be.

[newgirl]

I would be fine with your little guys hanging out in your yard. They are supposed to bring good luck.

[airstreamingypsy]

The cross people are just being childish. They want to have their own way, in spite of the rules they agreed to. One person's cross is another person's pink flamingo. They are making it about religion, but it isn't, it's about no lawn ornaments allowed where they live.

[asianthree]

Why should people pay a fee when YOU are the one breaking with the rules? Maybe the penalty should be paid by the people who do not follow the rules. That would certainly stop people from putting all the junk on their front lawns. Put it in your back yard!

In one month there were over 700 complaints, most by one person. Why would a person travel from village to village, street by street, call, fax or email in violation’s. It must be a full time job.

I am very much for the deed compliance, and those in violation can pay a fine. BUT those who travel to other villages has bigger issues to deal with.

Our 8 blocks visited by the clipboards, 145 complaints in one day. Our cameras picked them up and have clear pics as they drove, walked our house. Later that month knock on the door, from very nice person about a complaint on our home.

White cross in my yard. I said Not my Yard. So we walked to my Back Yard (so clipboards traveled thru our yard, cameras not their friend) to look, low and behold I had a plant that a beige branch had grown into what could be construed as a cross, if you really looked sideways, and stand on your head.

The person, and I laughed (you must have a sense of humor to do that job). I was Cautioned: remember make sure your plants don’t grow to look like a lawn ornament. I said “No crosses in our yard, we attend temple”. Offered a bottle of water and off to the next issue, the list longer than Santa.

I did ask how many were a nothing, wouldn’t say, but 98% cooperative
So if a person had to pay a fee to file, it would cut back on having to look so hard to find something. And if there was no viable infraction money not returned. Good fundraiser

[Byte1]

If you do not turn violators in, you may lose your membership and little red book.
Some folks are very sensitive about their impending judgement, since they are very very close to that day. Reminding them of their eternal plight is not being a good neighbor. Since the cross "represents" the gift of salvation to anyone that simply reaches out and accepts it, some find it frightening. Being a good neighbor, a Christian should not flaunt their happiness when some of their neighbors may be facing eternal damnation.
But, rules are rules (not law). Glad I live in a neighborhood that does not have such a rule. My neighbors have beautifully personalized lawns, with birds, gnomes, animal ornaments-- AND crosses. Almost everyone in my neighborhood have crosses in their yard. It gives me a warm feeling when I drive through. And apparently it has not damaged their property value, because when they go up for sale they sell within a few days. $400K-$500K homes sell within days of listing.
This is just my opinion and I can understand how some folks might be paranoid about "certain" rules. No one's personalized yard offends me. I am not going to allow trivial things like a little cross or a bird ornament make me sour in my last 20 years(?). I am going to enjoy the company of my neighbors, rather than alienate them. I don't even care what political affiliation they support or if they fly a flag supporting that party. To some, the "cross" in the yard is comforting and a reminder of what they can look forward to.
Yes, it may violate some deed restrictions. I know that no one that criticizes has ever coasted thru a stop sign or violated the speed limit, which are laws, not just rules. Sorry, if I do not find these little crosses to be offensive. Could it be that there is a gap in some folks knowledge/education that they do not comprehend what the cross represents? Then again, rules are rules and MUST NOT be violated. Did I hear a "Sieg Heil, Comrad?" Just kidding.

Don't take this seriously. Enjoy your neighbors and their personalities. Your neighbor will likely be there when your family is not.

[beeneyra]

Its like the USGA, they make changes to the rules every year, so they can act like there somebody. Freedom of speach, freedom of religion, gone, next guns.

[Byte1]

You have the opportunity to turn in the violator, if you do not the violations will continue. Doesn't matter which rule is broken, rules are rules. I have turned in people that allow their dogs to run loose, they were contacted but still don't use a leash, I call them "The Elite" to this class of people rules and regulations are meaningless.

Sounds like a very stressful way to live your twilight years.

[GrumpyOldMan]

If you do not turn violators in, you may lose your membership and little red book.
Some folks are very sensitive about their impending judgement, since they are very very close to that day. Reminding them of their eternal plight is not being a good neighbor. Since the cross "represents" the gift of salvation to anyone that simply reaches out and accepts it, some find it frightening. Being a good neighbor, a Christian should not flaunt their happiness when some of their neighbors may be facing eternal damnation.
But, rules are rules (not law). Glad I live in a neighborhood that does not have such a rule. My neighbors have beautifully personalized lawns, with birds, gnomes, animal ornaments-- AND crosses. Almost everyone in my neighborhood have crosses in their yard. It gives me a warm feeling when I drive through. And apparently it has not damaged their property value, because when they go up for sale they sell within a few days. $400K-$500K homes sell within days of listing.
This is just my opinion and I can understand how some folks might be paranoid about "certain" rules. No one's personalized yard offends me. I am not going to allow trivial things like a little cross or a bird ornament make me sour in my last 20 years(?). I am going to enjoy the company of my neighbors, rather than alienate them. I don't even care what political affiliation they support or if they fly a flag supporting that party. To some, the "cross" in the yard is comforting and a reminder of what they can look forward to.
Yes, it may violate some deed restrictions. I know that no one that criticizes has ever coasted thru a stop sign or violated the speed limit, which are laws, not just rules. Sorry, if I do not find these little crosses to be offensive. Could it be that there is a gap in some folks knowledge/education that they do not comprehend what the cross represents? Then again, rules are rules and MUST NOT be violated. Did I hear a "Sieg Heil, Comrad?" Just kidding.

Don't take this seriously. Enjoy your neighbors and their personalities. Your neighbor will likely be there when your family is not.

I pretty much agree. I think the point of the covenant is to help maintain property values. A rusty car up on blocks would be a problem, a pole dancer made out of LEDs on a flag pole would be a problem. But, birds, crosses, small fountains, etc. are not a problem.

Whatever the cross represents is not relevant, since it is an article of faith. That there are so many people that feel compelled to complain constantly is just sad.

[Byte1]

You're allowed seasonal decorations for up to 30 days.

White cross lady should celebrate January for 30 days, take the cross down for a day and then celebrate February for 30 days. Rinse and repeat twelve times a year celebrating each month.

Or, buy a planter for some flowers and paint a cross on the planter.

Or, cut down a palm tree but leave a 2' stump on which to place a flower planter. Carve a cross in the stump.

Religious expression can take many different forms and you don't necessarily have to create a problem when alternatives exist.

We celebrate SUNDAY for 30 days at a time with a little white cross. Is there supposed to be a certain gap in between?

[RodSheets]

Rules are rules. Change the rule or abide.

[Byte1]

Rules are rules. Change the rule or abide.

Or not.
As I read the many comments in this thread, I see a lot of FEAR.

I think I will eat lunch and mow my lawn.

[golfing eagles]

I pretty much agree. I think the point of the covenant is to help maintain property values. A rusty car up on blocks would be a problem, a pole dancer made out of LEDs on a flag pole would be a problem. But, birds, crosses, small fountains, etc. are not a problem.

Whatever the cross represents is not relevant, since it is an article of faith. That there are so many people that feel compelled to complain constantly is just sad.

Just one question: WHO decides which "ornaments" are and are not a "problem"?

[Rose Ann Vinci Igoe]

Its not the Cross, its where its placed. Just relocate the cross, problem solved.

[Challenger]

Yet so many swear clipboard trolls don’t exist. Now you have it in writing, yes they do.

Thankful for persistent Trolls. If you don't break the rules , Trolls have nothing to report.

[La lamy]

I don't have a problem with crosses, but seeing one on a lawn always makes me think someone was buried there. It's certainly not any cause for me to complain about, but I do find it very unusual.

[Sherry8bal]

The only reason this is happening is because there is some busybody in that neighborhood who complained. Who in this world would complain about one small white cross - is it what it represents that bothers them so bad? Shameful. Only anonymous complaints are addressed by the District and someone in that area is a sad and sorry individual.

[asianthree]

Thankful for persistent Trolls. If you don't break the rules , Trolls have nothing to report.

Read post #69

[Retiring]

I’m new to TV, what is this push for white crosses in the yard? I’m a devout Catholic and would love to have a statue in my yard. BUT, I don’t need a statue or cross in the yard to live my faith. Maybe someone can give me a short history of this phenomenon. Is it required by one of our sister protestant denominations? Is it a grave marker for a buried pet? Is it simply a way to express your “freedom of speech?” I wear a crucifix around my neck 24/7, my personal reminder of the Passion of Christ. I have a rosary cd in my car, which is used as a private/personal prayer aid. I don’t understand the “need” for white crosses in the yard. I understand it would be nice if we were permitted but you can witness by your everyday interaction with people. As St. Francis said, “Preach the Gospel always, and if necessary, use words”

[Byte1]

Just one question: WHO decides which "ornaments" are and are not a "problem"?

Just a thought, but why not have a panel? How much difficulty could that be? I have seen many traffic violations and small misdemeanors excused by the judge even though there was NO doubt the person was guilty of the violation. Surely, some leeway can be found in this matter. Makes no difference to me. If they come around tomorrow and tell me that I am in violation, I will put my garden gnome away...:jester:

Some on here would rather a 💩 because that is legal.

[Byte1]

I don't have a problem with crosses, but seeing one on a lawn always makes me think someone was buried there. It's certainly not any cause for me to complain about, but I do find it very unusual.

You were joking, right? Sorry, I didn't get it.
When I see a cross around someones neck, I automatically wonder if someone died......not. I assume that I am speaking to a person of faith that is not embarrassed to show it. Maybe not, but I doubt if an atheist would wear a silver or gold cross around their neck.

Personally, I believe folks should worry about what actually might effect their lives rather than something that others are doing that you do not agree with. I don't like yellow painted homes. I don't own a yellow painted home so it does not bother me if someone else has a yellow painted home.

I guess I am just older than some on here, or maybe I have seen things that really make a difference in the world that makes disputing over a tiny little white cross that gives comfort to some, to be just a petty little nothing. That's right, fighting over what someone has in their yard is NOTHING. It is a waste of time, energy and breathable air.

[Velvet]

You were joking, right? Sorry, I didn't get it.

No she wasn’t. I thought the same thing.

On another note, my “white cross” is within my heart where the only “person” who needs to see it, does.

[Spalumbos62]

If you don’t like the lawn ornament rules just move to the historic side. You can do whatever you want there apparently. I’ve seen cars on blocks with junk all over bushes that the homeowner was using as a table. He had rags, car parts, brooms, all on top of his bushes.

When we rented up there it easily swayed us to move south.


I'm glad you did.

[Byte1]

No she wasn’t. I thought the same thing.

On another note, my “white cross” is within my heart where the only “person” who needs to see it, does.

Great.
Sorry if I do not understand how anyone would think there was a body buried in someone's front yard. Of course, folks come from all different states and countries to the Villages, so maybe that is part of one's culture where they come from. Even when I am at a VA cemetery, when I see a white cross I think of what it really represents. Since HIS death and resurrection does not have meaning to some, I will not elaborate on what it means to me when I see a cross. However, I have never thought of a possible grave in someone's yard. Then again, just because I have never seen anyone buried in someone's front yard in my travels around the world, it does not mean it doesn't happen.
Does a pine tree in someone's front yard make folks believe that Santa is buried there?

Time to rustle up some dinner. I have accomplished much today and still obtained my daily entertainment on here. Thank you, ALL and God Bless you.

[Spalumbos62]

Great.
Sorry if I do not understand how anyone would think there was a body buried in someone's front yard. Of course, folks come from all different states and countries to the Villages, so maybe that is part of one's culture where they come from. Even when I am at a VA cemetery, when I see a white cross I think of what it really represents. Since HIS death and resurrection does not have meaning to some, I will not elaborate on what it means to me when I see a cross. However, I have never thought of a possible grave in someone's yard. Then again, just because I have never seen anyone buried in someone's front yard in my travels around the world, it does not mean it doesn't happen.
Does a pine tree in someone's front yard make folks believe that Santa is buried there?

Time to rustle up some dinner. I have accomplished much today and still obtained my daily entertainment on here. Thank you, ALL and God Bless you.


I don't remember who said this to me, but when shopping for our home I noticed all these crosses on the lawns and inquired about it.. I was told it was bc the person lost a loved one... which made total sense in a senior living community. If that is correct, then how low can a person go to request it be moved.

[Ben Franklin]

None of these gnomes are taller than 8 inches. Hope you don't mind them in my front yard. ;-)

https://yarrio.com/wp-content/uploads/garden-gnomes.jpg

[GrumpyOldMan]

Just one question: WHO decides which "ornaments" are and are not a "problem"?

It's easy, anyone that is mad at you, can find something and complain, and which point the thing, if it exists and if it is banned in the covenants is a problem, and you have to remove it.

Or to put it another way, anything that no one complains about is not a problem - until it is.

[GrumpyOldMan]

The only reason this is happening is because there is some busybody in that neighborhood who complained. Who in this world would complain about one small white cross - is it what it represents that bothers them so bad? Shameful. Only anonymous complaints are addressed by the District and someone in that area is a sad and sorry individual.

I have no reason to believe it has anything to do with it being a cross. It might, but I don't know, and you don't know either. You wient from a lawn ornament to what a cross represents in a leap of assumptions.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Rules are rules.

It is really amazing how many people live here in TV that has never used a pad at work for personal use, never taken a pencil or pen home, never fudge on an expense account, never ran stop sign, never exceeded a speed limit.

But, let someone put a cross in their yard or a statue of a bird, and suddenly - Rules are Rules.

[tuccillo]

Yep, and when you do those things and get caught there might be consequences.

Rules are rules.

It is really amazing how many people live here in TV that has never used a pad at work for personal use, never taken a pencil or pen home, never fudge on an expense account, never ran stop sign, never exceeded a speed limit.

But, let someone put a cross in their yard or a statue of a bird, and suddenly - Rules are Rules.

[John41]

The issue with religious symbols is that even though we are a Christian country we want all others to be comfortable. If 90% of the yards have crosses ... the message for others comes across and "you're not one of us" and that's not The Villages. Perhaps religion can be inside and not outside?

And let’s eliminate Christmas decorations on the 90% of residents who have them so others don’t feel uncomfortable.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Yep, and when you do those things and get caught there might be consequences.

Absolutely, and when you break the rules here, there might be, and it has nothing to do with a Cross, or a rock, or some statute.

I agree with you.

[GrumpyOldMan]

And let’s eliminate Christmas decorations on the 90% of residents who have them so others don’t feel uncomfortable.

I don't understand, Christmas decorations are not banned in the covenant, in fact, they are specifically permitted around Christmas. I guess you are either being sarcastic or are feeling a little persecuted?

[Incoblack1]

Well this should start a conversation.
Did you know that one of the Districts governance bodies is suing a resident over a very small white cross in their yard?
They should start a go fund me page to fight this.

Resident says HOA in The Villages is suing her for displaying cross, lawn ornaments (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/a-small-cross-is-causing-big-controversy-in-the-villages?fbclid=IwAR0h7toflmc8LNzI3Ixz6GXxIJPupe5R 4yPYoLouSXkgUJxvNAEwYouL4FQ)

The nicest housing areas allow no lawn ornaments. If you allow them how do you define the limits allowable? It is best to disallow all ornaments. Window decorations should be OK although again, the nicest areas discourage them too!

[JMintzer]

You were joking, right? Sorry, I didn't get it.
When I see a cross around someones neck, I automatically wonder if someone died......not.

You're equating a cross in the ground (a well know grave marker) with a necklace?

Alrighty then...

Oh, and btw, I couldn't care less if a neighbor had a small cross in their garden...

[Byte1]

You're equating a cross in the ground (a well know grave marker) with a necklace?

Alrighty then...

Oh, and btw, I couldn't care less if a neighbor had a small cross in their garden...

Thank you! The poster was equating a cross on a lawn to being a grave marker. I was being sarcastic when I suggested that a cross on someone's necklace could be misinterpreted also. I found it ludicrous to suggest that a cross in someone's yard would suggest a grave marker.

[VApeople]

I have no reason to believe it has anything to do with it being a cross.

I suspect it has a lot to do with it being a cross.

I am not and have never been a Christian but I know that most people are Christians.

Maybe some non-Christians feel uncomfortable living in a predominately Christian community and they feel intimidated seeing numerous small crosses.

[asianthree]

I suspect it has a lot to do with it being a cross.

I am not and have never been a Christian but I know that most people are Christians.

Maybe some non-Christians feel uncomfortable living in a predominately Christian community and they feel intimidated seeing the small crosses.

Growing up was different than my other friends at holidays, but didn’t make them any less of a friend. Or keep our parents from being close friends. I don’t have the need to display a Star of David, or a Buddha in my yard, and definitely not intimidated by a white cross. Maybe with advancing age comes the need to show a reminder of one’s faith.

[Tom2172]

Because the villages hasn’t figured out yet how to make money $$$ selling 8” crosses!
Once they do look out

[TJ SoBos]

I guess I don't see what the big deal about this is. I haven't seen the "offending" item in person, but as far as I can ascertain, It's pretty small, and not easily seen....unless you are scrutinizing someone's property....or trying to peep into their windows :icon_wink: (??).
Is it really a lawn ornament, or is it a Religious Symbol? If the latter, maybe it doesn't violate the "rules"....and just an expression of Faith (which the rules probably don't address ....you know, that pesky Freedom Of Religion thingy?? :pray:) :popcorn:

[MrFlorida]

I like rules and regulations, that's why I moved here.

[Jayhawk]

I

Our 8 blocks visited by the clipboards, 145 complaints in one day. Our cameras picked them up and have clear pics as they drove, walked our house. Later that month knock on the door, from very nice person about a complaint on our home.



So 145 complaints in one day? That is 18+ per hour or 1 complaint every 3 minutes including the time it takes to document the case. Who confirmed that for you?

Are you sure you have the facts on this? I haven't seen 145 violations in 5 years, much less in one day.

And who cares if it's 2 old ladies or Neighborhood Watch doing the reporting? Isn't a violation EACH AND EVERY RESIDENT agreed not to do still a violation?

[Velvet]

I think if you want to be “independent” or do your own thing or etc, don’t buy in a deed restricted place. It is not for you! It reminds me of people coming to this country, escaping the one they are leaving and then try to make this country similar to the one they left.

[Ben Franklin]

Thank you! The poster was equating a cross on a lawn to being a grave marker. I was being sarcastic when I suggested that a cross on someone's necklace could be misinterpreted also. I found it ludicrous to suggest that a cross in someone's yard would suggest a grave marker.

When we were looking to buy here, my wife and I thought those crosses marked where people buried their pets.

[Ben Franklin]

I think if you want to be “independent” or do your own thing or etc, don’t buy in a deed restricted place. It is not for you! It reminds me of people coming to this country, escaping the one they are leaving and then try to make this country similar to the one they left.

I remember people like that. It all started way back when.

Europeans came here and wanted it to be like Europe, so they started killing the natives.

[asianthree]

So 145 complaints in one day? That is 18+ per hour or 1 complaint every 3 minutes including the time it takes to document the case. Who confirmed that for you?

Are you sure you have the facts on this? I haven't seen 145 violations in 5 years, much less in one day.

And who cares if it's 2 old ladies or Neighborhood Watch doing the reporting? Isn't a violation EACH AND EVERY RESIDENT agreed not to do still a violation?

At neighborhood block party it was the only discussion, they hit our house 3 days after the first person captured them on their outside cameras. We also have a internal website to all neighbors to post parties, illness and death so it was hot topic. Yes there were definitely, metal birds in flowers, one wagon, metal pinwheels, a watering can, and so on. White crosses were few and far between, so guessing many choose not to display them. However not every house got a notice, that had something in their flowers.

As I posted in post #69, I was notified, of supposed white cross in my Back Yard. However it was a branch on a plant that didn’t look like a cross at all. I was not fined or asked to remove. With the viewing from our cameras they were in and out of my lawn in under a minute. I have a video of the picture taking. Guessing fastest and efficient way take picture of address, and photo of lawn whatever, takes less than 30 seconds. Then return home and file the offending homes. Not rocket science in today’s world.

[Bill14564]

At neighborhood block party it was the only discussion, they hit our house 3 days after the first person captured them on their outside cameras. We also have a internal website to all neighbors to post parties, illness and death so it was hot topic. Yes there were definitely, metal birds in flowers, one wagon, metal pinwheels, a watering can, and so on. White crosses were few and far between, so guessing many choose not to display them. However not every house got a notice, that had something in their flowers.

As I posted in post #69, I was notified, of supposed white cross in my Back Yard. However it was a branch on a plant that didn’t look like a cross at all. I was not fined or asked to remove. With the viewing from our cameras they were in and out of my lawn in under a minute. I have a video of the picture taking. Guessing fastest and efficient way take picture of address, and photo of lawn whatever, takes less than 30 seconds. Then return home and file the offending homes. Not rocket science in today’s world.

If they were in your yard then you might want to consider trespassing charges. Yes, it's petty, but so is driving around to random neighborhoods to find things to write complaints about.

[roob1]

Are they driving around to find things to complain about, or driving around locating possible violations of the covenants?

I believe the latter best describes it. And they are providing a free service to those of us who expect rule violations to be dealt with.

Their motivations are moot.


If they were in your yard then you might want to consider trespassing charges. Yes, it's petty, but so is driving around to random neighborhoods to find things to write complaints about.

[Tom52]

At neighborhood block party it was the only discussion, they hit our house 3 days after the first person captured them on their outside cameras. We also have a internal website to all neighbors to post parties, illness and death so it was hot topic. Yes there were definitely, metal birds in flowers, one wagon, metal pinwheels, a watering can, and so on. White crosses were few and far between, so guessing many choose not to display them. However not every house got a notice, that had something in their flowers.

As I posted in post #69, I was notified, of supposed white cross in my Back Yard. However it was a branch on a plant that didn’t look like a cross at all. I was not fined or asked to remove. With the viewing from our cameras they were in and out of my lawn in under a minute. I have a video of the picture taking. Guessing fastest and efficient way take picture of address, and photo of lawn whatever, takes less than 30 seconds. Then return home and file the offending homes. Not rocket science in today’s world.

If you have pictures of these trolls why not post a few? If they trespassed into my yard that makes them fair game.

[shut the front door]

We follow the pet rules and do not have any lawn ornaments.

So does everyone on TOTV. And 99% of people on this site tip everyone they come in contact with at Christmas and always tip their servers at least 30%.

[shut the front door]

According to a few on this site, the clipboard trolls don't exist. I'm starting to think that they probably are the clipboard trolls.

[Velvet]

If rules are only enforced when violations are reported (it is cheaper than hiring inspectors) then such “volunteers” are offering a free service. But… once they come on your property they become trespassers.

[asianthree]

If you have pictures of these trolls why not post a few? If they trespassed into my yard that makes them fair game.

Pics have been posted in the past, nothing changed. In fact posters attacked the persons who posted the pictures accusing them of fabricating people, and flat out lying. The 2 posters have not posted since end of 2019, which was sad because they were wonderful people.
If they are in the easement of your property, you don’t have much recourse, coming from the sheriffs department.

Since my supposed cross was a plant branch, I was cleared of any wrong doing.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I suspect it has a lot to do with it being a cross.

I am not and have never been a Christian but I know that most people are Christians.

Maybe some non-Christians feel uncomfortable living in a predominately Christian community and they feel intimidated seeing numerous small crosses.

I'm not Christian. My neighborhood growing up was mostly Christian. I'm personally not comfortable with the idea that a "Christian" feels that it's appropriate to knowingly make people feel uncomfortable by displaying their religion on their front lawn. I would feel the same if it were someone displaying a pagan symbol, or a church of satan symbol, or a Jewish symbol. I feel religion is, and should be, a private matter between you and your deity and your church, if you have one.

But if you want to insist that your white cross SHOULD be on your lawn, then I will challenge you to accept a pagan symbol, a church of satan symbol, and a Jewish symbol on mine. If you can't accept those, then take the cross off your lawn. If you can accept them, then it's all good.

[Velvet]

Pics have been posted in the past, nothing changed. In fact posters attacked the persons who posted the pictures accusing them of fabricating people, and flat out lying. The 2 posters have not posted since end of 2019, which was sad because they were wonderful people.
If they are in the easement of your property, you don’t have much recourse, coming from the sheriffs department.

Since my supposed cross was a plant branch, I was cleared of any wrong doing.

At first I laughed at your post, the way you described it… but then I thought of the inconvenience it caused you. Sorry you had to go through it.

[JSR22]

[QUOTE=shut the front door;1959167]So does everyone on TOTV. And 99% of people on this site tip everyone they come in contact with at Christmas and always tip their servers at least 30%.[/Q

ActuaIly have bgeen tipping at least 30% since we received the stimulus checks. I tip everyone who provides a service at the holidays!

[Bill14564]

Are they driving around to find things to complain about, or driving around locating possible violations of the covenants?

I believe the latter best describes it. And they are providing a free service to those of us who expect rule violations to be dealt with.

Their motivations are moot.

If they are driving around my neighborhood yet don't live here then they are busy bodies and should mind their own business. I like the idea of the previous poster that if the complainant does not live within two blocks then their complaint is discarded. Let me and my neighbors worry about our neighborhood - everyone else can tend to their own areas.

I will agree that their motivations are moot if they step foot on my property uninvited - in that case they are trespassers. Rules are rules after all.

[Garywt]

Last year it was passed that white crosses were allowed moving forward. I thought it was for all districts but maybe not all…

[golfing eagles]

Are they driving around to find things to complain about, or driving around locating possible violations of the covenants?

I believe the latter best describes it. And they are providing a free service to those of us who expect rule violations to be dealt with.

Their motivations are moot.

Just can't see it that way (and 1 have zero deed violations). If TV wanted to send out an employee to check for compliance, fine. If they wanted community watch to report what they see, fine. But these old biddies are self-appointed deed compliance trolls with a clipboard and a broomstick up their you know what. And people support that concept????

OK, in that case, if I grab a Glock and go out into Wildwood at night and hunt lawbreakers, am I some kind of hero doing the community a "free service" for those of us who expect law violations to be dealt with? Or just another nut job vigilante? I believe the latter would best describe it. And I doubt anyone would consider that motivation "moot"

[Altavia]

Does Community Standards do anything to verify complaints?

Who is accountable for false complaints?

[stan the man]

Just can't see it that way (and 1 have zero deed violations). If TV wanted to send out an employee to check for compliance, fine. If they wanted community watch to report what they see, fine. But these old biddies are self-appointed deed compliance trolls with a clipboard and a broomstick up their you know what. And people support that concept????

OK, in that case, if I grab a Glock and go out into Wildwood at night and hunt lawbreakers, am I some kind of hero doing the community a "free service" for those of us who expect law violations to be dealt with? Or just another nut job vigilante? I believe the latter would best describe it. And I doubt anyone would consider that motivation "moot"

typical villager . that's why if you fall down infront of me, I will step over you.

[golfing eagles]

typical villager . that's why if you fall down infront of me, I will step over you.

Care to explain that????? Or was the analogy too complicated for you to understand???

[asianthree]

Does Community Standards do anything to verify complaints?

Who is accountable for false complaints?

See post #69. No one gets a slap on the wrist, or their complaints halted. Some CDD have voted on different rules, to try to curb the clipboards, by no longer allowing anonymous complaints, and complaints filled out, not just list of addresses on paper

[roob1]

Comparing shooting lawbreakers with reporting violators is ludicrous.

Their motivations are moot, as there would be no motivation if owners did not violate rules which they agreed to abide by when they bought.


Just can't see it that way (and 1 have zero deed violations). If TV wanted to send out an employee to check for compliance, fine. If they wanted community watch to report what they see, fine. But these old biddies are self-appointed deed compliance trolls with a clipboard and a broomstick up their you know what. And people support that concept????

OK, in that case, if I grab a Glock and go out into Wildwood at night and hunt lawbreakers, am I some kind of hero doing the community a "free service" for those of us who expect law violations to be dealt with? Or just another nut job vigilante? I believe the latter would best describe it. And I doubt anyone would consider that motivation "moot"

[JMintzer]

Just can't see it that way (and 1 have zero deed violations). If TV wanted to send out an employee to check for compliance, fine. If they wanted community watch to report what they see, fine. But these old biddies are self-appointed deed compliance trolls with a clipboard and a broomstick up their you know what. And people support that concept????

OK, in that case, if I grab a Glock and go out into Wildwood at night and hunt lawbreakers, am I some kind of hero doing the community a "free service" for those of us who expect law violations to be dealt with? Or just another nut job vigilante? I believe the latter would best describe it. And I doubt anyone would consider that motivation "moot"

One question...

Which calibre and what is the magazine capacity? :a040:

[JMintzer]

Comparing shooting lawbreakers with reporting violators is ludicrous.

Their motivations are moot, as there would be no motivation if owners did not violate rules which they agreed to abide by when they bought.

Your sarcasm meter needs an adjustment...

[golfing eagles]

Comparing shooting lawbreakers with reporting violators is ludicrous.

Their motivations are moot, as there would be no motivation if owners did not violate rules which they agreed to abide by when they bought.

Your post is "ludicrous".

Let's see---- a comparison:

Both are sticking their nose in where it does not belong
Neither are authorized to be doing what they are doing
Both may, in the course of their actions, trespass
And the guy with the gun's motivation is "moot" because there would be no motivation if people didn't break the law?????
Only the severity of the consequences is different in my analogy
Therefore, I've just answered my own question----you ARE incapable of understanding the analogy. How about the other guy?

[PennBF]

It is truly ironic that some residents not only feel entitled to disregard the rules they agreed to when getting approval to purchase in the Villages but actually put the Cristian symbol of the cross on the same level as a bouncing head of a plastic Flamingo or a fake pot of flowers. They truly disgrace the Churches and religions they are trying to boast about. It is symbolic of the lengths some will go to by bringing the meaning of the cross down to some cheap plastic or wood eye sore in order to let people who don't care and are more respectable of their
beliefs. :ohdear:

[oldtimes]

Your post is "ludicrous".
Both may, in the course of their actions, trespass


If they set foot on your property they are in fact trespassing and violating more than deed restrictions.

[Byte1]

It is truly ironic that some residents not only feel entitled to disregard the rules they agreed to when getting approval to purchase in the Villages but actually put the Cristian symbol of the cross on the same level as a bouncing head of a plastic Flamingo or a fake pot of flowers. They truly disgrace the Churches and religions they are trying to boast about. It is symbolic of the lengths some will go to by bringing the meaning of the cross down to some cheap plastic or wood eye sore in order to let people who don't care and are more respectable of their
beliefs. :ohdear:

Sarcasm, great!...........:clap2:

[Garywt]

It is truly ironic that some residents not only feel entitled to disregard the rules they agreed to when getting approval to purchase in the Villages but actually put the Cristian symbol of the cross on the same level as a bouncing head of a plastic Flamingo or a fake pot of flowers. They truly disgrace the Churches and religions they are trying to boast about. It is symbolic of the lengths some will go to by bringing the meaning of the cross down to some cheap plastic or wood eye sore in order to let people who don't care and are more respectable of their
beliefs. :ohdear:

Most crosses are for lost loved ones. They are not to be considered lawn ornaments and are allowed as of last year.

[Velvet]

I’m still not happy about seeing these crosses in public in residential settings. I don’t want to live in a cemetery! (yet) And I am a Bible College educated Christian.

But… whatever the majority decides, I will accept.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Most crosses are for lost loved ones. They are not to be considered lawn ornaments and are allowed as of last year.

Unless you buried your loved one in that spot, it's not for loved ones. Most of them are to let everyone know they're christian. Nothing more or less.

Personally, I feel that anyone who has to tell me they're christian, in order for me to know they're christian, aren't being very good christians.

A good christian doesn't need to advertise it. They just ARE.

[Garywt]

Unless you buried your loved one in that spot, it's not for loved ones. Most of them are to let everyone know they're christian. Nothing more or less.

Personally, I feel that anyone who has to tell me they're christian, in order for me to know they're christian, aren't being very good christians.

A good christian doesn't need to advertise it. They just ARE.

The people I have talked to the cross is because they lost their spouse. Not most likely not everyone but my neighbor for one lost her husband, downsized her house and put a small cross out. She was told to relocate it which she did but now has it out front because the rules have changed.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Unless you buried your loved one in that spot, it's not for loved ones. Most of them are to let everyone know they're christian. Nothing more or less.

Personally, I feel that anyone who has to tell me they're christian, in order for me to know they're christian, aren't being very good christians.

A good Christian doesn't need to advertise it. They just ARE.

I was raised Southern Baptist, and I was "taught" that a "good Christian did not advertise their religion, instead, they demonstrated it in their daily lives.

(Edited: But, what do I know, I turned into an atheist...)

[graciegirl]

I’m still not happy about seeing these crosses in public in residential settings. I don’t want to live in a cemetery! (yet) And I am a Bible College educated Christian.

But… whatever the majority decides, I will accept.

I agree. Those are the rules.

We aren't allowed to have unapproved ornaments of any kind and they can be challenged. That is what the deed restrictions say. I don't look at it as anyone not liking or liking your faith.

[Byte1]

I’m still not happy about seeing these crosses in public in residential settings. I don’t want to live in a cemetery! (yet) And I am a Bible College educated Christian.

But… whatever the majority decides, I will accept.

A Catholic gave me a white cross and I put it in my yard. I am not Catholic but I like the cross and it is allowed (apparently) in my neighborhood. I suppose I should be sensitive to those that are "not happy" about my having a cross displayed, but I cannot be sensitive to the hurt feelings of ALL humanity. By the way, more of my neighbors have crosses than those that do not. As for those that insist that it is not proper to announce one's faith:
Mark 16:15-16 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

[graciegirl]

A Catholic gave me a white cross and I put it in my yard. I am not Catholic but I like the cross and it is allowed (apparently) in my neighborhood. I suppose I should be sensitive to those that are "not happy" about my having a cross displayed, but I cannot be sensitive to the hurt feelings of ALL humanity. By the way, more of my neighbors have crosses than those that do not. As for those that insist that it is not proper to announce one's faith:
Mark 16:15-16 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

It isn't the issue that it is a cross. It is the issue that it is a lawn ornament. It isn't allowed unless it is placed under the eaves of your home.

[Byte1]

It isn't the issue that it is a cross. It is the issue that it is a lawn ornament. It isn't allowed unless it is placed under the eaves of your home.

Apparently, it IS allowed in certain sections. ALL rules are flexible in this country, as well as the punishment for ALL laws. Time for folks to be a bit more "tolerant" in their old age, isn't it?

[vintageogauge]

Apparently, it IS allowed in certain sections. ALL rules are flexible in this country, as well as the punishment for ALL laws. Time for folks to be a bit more "tolerant" in their old age, isn't it?

Deed restrictions are not flexible, they are permanent. I don't understand why those with crosses don't just put them on their front door, problem solved.

[golfing eagles]

Deed restrictions are not flexible, they are permanent. I don't understand why those with crosses don't just put them on their front door, problem solved.

Yep, I don't get it either. Who gets to decide which deed violations are acceptable and which aren't? But I still don't agree with old biddies with clipboards going to other than their own neighborhood and reporting 140 violations/week

[Decadeofdave]

They just called me last week to remove my sand hill cranes. Anonymous person called. I thought I was grandfathered in because the grandfather I bought the house from had them in the front yard for 15 years LOL, I got busted.

[PennBF]

For those who have quoted the Bible to support the "Cross in the Yard" may want to refer to Mathew 6:5-6 in which it states:
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the
synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have
received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and
pray to your father who is unseen" Mathew 6:5-6 :
Does this actually point to those who yell their Christian belief from their yards which relates to street corners rather then quietly in a closed room?:pray:

[graciegirl]

Apparently, it IS allowed in certain sections. ALL rules are flexible in this country, as well as the punishment for ALL laws. Time for folks to be a bit more "tolerant" in their old age, isn't it?

We moved to an area with deed restrictions on purpose. Has NOTHING to do with goodness, religion, kindness, punishment but rather trying to keep rampant bad taste from overtaking the area where we live. NO I do not think that Christian symbols are bad taste at all.

I just LIKE and CHOOSE places that have deed restrictions and have done so for years. It makes the whole area a better and more lovely place to live and protects your financial investment in your home.

[Chellybean]

People believe the crosses are covered under the first amendment, freedom of speech which IMHO I believe they are. Federal and State law Preempts anything you signed and can not be enforced. A lot of deed restriction are not legal and Preempted by state and Federal law, some example, Clotheslines, outdoor Antenna's etc... I am sure there will be a lot of disagreement about this which I will not debate.
Sometimes peoples principles are more important and not about Christianity, if its not on your property mind your own business!

[vintageogauge]

People believe the crosses are covered under the first amendment, freedom of speech which IMHO I believe they are. Federal and State law Preempts anything you signed and can not be enforced. A lot of deed restriction are not legal and Preempted by state and Federal law, some example, Clotheslines, outdoor Antenna's etc... I am sure there will be a lot of disagreement about this which I will not debate.
Sometimes peoples principles are more important and not about Christianity, if its not on your property mind your own business!

Visible crosses are not being restricted, it is the placement of them that is restricted, you can have one in your window or on the outside of your front door, you just can have them in your lawn or landscape area if the restriction is on your deed therefore no restriction of free speech.

[graciegirl]

People believe the crosses are covered under the first amendment, freedom of speech which IMHO I believe they are. Federal and State law Preempts anything you signed and can not be enforced. A lot of deed restriction are not legal and Preempted by state and Federal law, some example, Clotheslines, outdoor Antenna's etc... I am sure there will be a lot of disagreement about this which I will not debate.
Sometimes peoples principles are more important and not about Christianity, if its not on your property mind your own business!

You and all others signed to follow those restrictions when you moved here. No one was forced to move here. You can live in Leesburg and put whatever lovely thing you want in your yard. We all signed the paper. It was our CHOICE to live in a deed restricted area.

[DAVES]

What if it was an 8" tall SWAZTICA or an 8" tall phallus??
What would the discussion be then?
The Covenant's, anywhere, are there for a reason.

An endless discussion. Yet, another example of people trying to justify. Re: crosses.
take out a ruler and see what eight inches is. I doubt it is or was eight inches. Far as crosses. I recall seeing a person with three on his/her front lawn. Surely someone will start the cross race. My cross is bigger than your cross. Wait, I've already seen that too.

[graciegirl]

You and all others signed to follow those restrictions when you moved here. No one was forced to move here. You can live in Leesburg and put whatever lovely thing you want in your yard. We all signed the paper. It was our CHOICE to live in a deed restricted area.

Everyone thinks that their choices are lovely.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/21/34/a4/2134a4423f313ccd9141b90c010b3902.jpg

[PennBF]

I believe Mathew 6:5-6 is sort of a Biblical Restriction but again many don't pay attention to that either..:ohdear:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

People believe the crosses are covered under the first amendment, freedom of speech which IMHO I believe they are. Federal and State law Preempts anything you signed and can not be enforced. A lot of deed restriction are not legal and Preempted by state and Federal law, some example, Clotheslines, outdoor Antenna's etc... I am sure there will be a lot of disagreement about this which I will not debate.
Sometimes peoples principles are more important and not about Christianity, if its not on your property mind your own business!

The freedom people claim when arguing for displaying the cross is not freedom of expression. That freedom is specific to public property. The freedom in question is freedom of religion. Both are parts of the First Amendment.

Freedom of religion is guaranteed. Now go ahead and show me where in the bible it says you're required to stick a white cross on your front lawn. You show me where it says you have to do that, and I will respect your right to do that.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

[Byte1]

The ONLY valid argument on this thread regarding the placement of crosses on a front lawn is the one regarding Deed Restrictions. Arguing over the validity of religion and how to practice it, is not relevant to the issue, even though many of us wish to disagree with each other on their translation of the Bible or related to the atheists, whether they believe in a deity or not.
I did not move to The Villages because of deed restrictions, politics, or supposed security gates. Of course I will adhere to any rules or else move to a better location. BUT, as long as my neighbors are flexible with the rules I can be tolerant also. If someone challenges my choice in personalizing my property, I will likely make corrections and if it goes against my nature to change, I will move.
Personally, my nose is not in my neighbor's business and what they do does not bother me in the slightest with regards to how they personalize their homes. Almost every home in my neighborhood has been personalized, whether they are following the rules or not, I don't know and don't care. That said, homes for sale in my neighborhood sell within days of listing, and over half a million bucks per sale, I do not feel that a few lawn ornaments has sullied their worth.
Just my opinion.
Folks are correct in saying "well rules are rules." I agree. I also agree with those that want flexibility such as others get in other neighborhoods. I do not see how someone on here can demand that folks in other neighborhoods than theirs comply with their wishes. Like I said before, for every rule or law I have seen exceptions and flexibility.
This discussion seems to come up every month. It's interesting, but we hardly ever hear anything new. I realize that to some, a cross reminds them that they might be missing something in their lives. It makes them scared, especially as they draw closer and closer to their expiration date. Others sound like elitists, that fear that their property value might decrease. They have no intention of selling their homes, but bragging about the worth of their home is something that make life great, huh?

[Altavia]

What is the specific language in deed restrictions prohibiting lawn ornements?

[tuccillo]

Your specific deed restrictions are available at districtgov.org. There are variations in the deed restrictions. For a much of The Villages, the language is:

"Lawn ornaments are prohibited, except for seasons displays not exceeding a thirty (30) day duration."

What is the specific language in deed restrictions prohibiting lawn ornements?

[Seamus6]

Rules are rules.

It is really amazing how many people live here in TV that has never used a pad at work for personal use, never taken a pencil or pen home, never fudge on an expense account, never ran stop sign, never exceeded a speed limit.

But, let someone put a cross in their yard or a statue of a bird, and suddenly - Rules are Rules.


I am generally one for following the rules, especially in your own neighborhood.

But I have to say, This is a great point!!!

I would have a tendency to talk to a neighbor first if I didn't like something and a cross or gnome wouldn't do it (We have a nice CERAMIC flamingo in our BACK yard that I really like but wouldn't put it out front)...now that rusty old car, I'd have to ask about.

[Road-Runner]

I've lived through three different neighborhoods around Atlanta that underwent significant demographic changes while we lived there and the one that had strong neighborhood covenants was the only one that still looked decent when we left. The others had Pepto Bismol pink houses and fences, other colors I don't know how to describe other than bizarre, yards that had gone back to nature, you name it they had it. If I move into a neighborhood that keeps me from doing something I might want to do I understand it also keeps another from doing something I definitely don't want them to do, it works for me.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I believe Mathew 6:5-6 is sort of a Biblical Restriction but again many don't pay attention to that either..:ohdear:

I expect we could make a LONG list of things people don't do that the Bible says to do - how about, and then "they" would come up with a long list of things other people do.

The bible is not a legal document we signed and agreed to live by when moving here.

We all agreed on no lawn ornaments, we all signed it.

Personally, I don't care about birds and crosses and frogs, when someone puts a car up on cinder blocks I will complain.

[JoMar]

My entire neighborhood put flags on their lawn last Memorial Day. I put 12 there myself. Were we in compliance with the CDD? Didn't check. Don't really care.

I guess I'm fortunate to live in a neighborhood where people like to get together on projects like that. My neighbors seem more worried about enjoying their retirement and being liked by their neighbors, than worrying about what little doo-dad their neighbor has in their garden, just so they can report them to lawn ornament police.

When governments, especially small governments, make rules, they're always draconian. That's because fellow citizens don't want to sit in judgement as the designated hair splitter, and the lawyers don't want any ambiguity if they have to go to court.

The lawn ornament thing is there to prevent people from erecting giant monstrosities on their lawn that hurt property values. It wasn't written to prevent your tender eyes from observing a small religious artifact that you happen to find offensive. But you're certainly within your rights and the letter of the law to report the offender and have offensive the object removed. And a chorus of like-minded souls on this forum are sure to whip our their deed restrictions and remind us that we all agreed to be ruled by the most petty among us, and rules are rules.

I'd just ask how your happy retirement is going -- the one where you paid a bundle to live close to other happy retired people -- if you find your neighbors so offensive that you'd turn them in for something as trivial as an 8" cross in their garden.

Until you decide to sell your house and buyers find how your neighbors decorate their lawns offensive and move on. With houses so close together it makes a difference. Are you happy with all religious representations in yards? If you allow one, you allow them all.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I see freedom of speech is mentioned several times in this thread. The First Amendment is only applicable in cases of the government and does not apply to private contracts or private businesses.

Freedom to practice your religion is also in reference to the government and does not apply to private businesses.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I see freedom of speech is mentioned several times in this thread. The First Amendment is only applicable in cases of the government and does not apply to private contracts or private businesses.

Freedom to practice your religion is also in reference to the government and does not apply to private businesses.

It does apply to your own property though. You have the right to practice your religion on your own property, regardless of deed restrictions.

HOWEVER my point is, there's nothing in the Christian religion requiring anyone to put a cross on their front yard. So there is no "practicing my religion" going on, in that specific situation. And since the placing of crosses in one's front yard is NOT a practice of one's religion, the freedom of religion clause doesn't apply.

[GrumpyOldMan]

It does apply to your own property though. You have the right to practice your religion on your own property, regardless of deed restrictions.

HOWEVER, my point is, there's nothing in the Christian religion requiring anyone to put a cross on their front yard. So there is no "practicing my religion" going on, in that specific situation. And since the placing of crosses in one's front yard is NOT a practice of one's religion, the freedom of religion clause doesn't apply.

Actually, no you do not have a "right" to practice your religion on your own property, except that the government can not stop you from doing it. Your rights, in that case, apply ONLY to the government and not to any civil contract you may have entered.

Now, is there a law that says contracts that limit your exercising your religion are not permitted? I have no idea, I am not a lawyer, and that is certainly possible. But, laws are not rights.

Rights are enumerated in the Constitution, and those are the only rights you have. They do not extend to anything not listed. Some people believe that God is the ultimate source of "rights", but we live in a secular society and so, here, the Government defines what "rights" we have or don't have.

[Jayhawk]

Why do people move into a community with rules and restrictions, and then complain about rules and restrictions ?

They are hypocrites.

Like the woman at a hotel bar when approached by a guy who says "would you come up to my room for $1 million?" She says of course. He then says how about for $50? She says "No, what do you think I am?"

He responds "that's been established. Now we're negotiating."

[Challenger]

Well this should start a conversation.
Did you know that one of the Districts governance bodies is suing a resident over a very small white cross in their yard?
They should start a go fund me page to fight this.

Resident says HOA in The Villages is suing her for displaying cross, lawn ornaments (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/a-small-cross-is-causing-big-controversy-in-the-villages?fbclid=IwAR0h7toflmc8LNzI3Ixz6GXxIJPupe5R 4yPYoLouSXkgUJxvNAEwYouL4FQ)

How about 9" Buddha, or 10" Crescent and Star, or 11" Wiccan emblem, or 12" Rising Sun, or 13" Totem pole. :MOJE_whot:

[GrumpyOldMan]

How about 9" Buddha, or 10" Crescent and Star, or 11" Wiccan emblem, or 12" Rising Sun, or 13" Totem pole. :MOJE_whot:

Yup. It seems people who self-identify as Christian feel they have some exclusive on "religion". I expect if a next-door neighbor to someone with a cross put an 8-inch statue of the devil out we would hear about it.

[dougjb]

Just remember....the first rule of living in a place ruled by condo rules or home association rules is to repeat the following as a mantra....

The rules are good. They apply to everyone ...... except for me!

They really did not have in mind my little transgression when they wrote the rules.

[graciegirl]

The tenants "were TOLD" by attorney's office.

Sounds like hearsay to me.....

And even if they do exist...who cares? Follow rules and they will have nothing to report, right?

So Beautifully and Perfectly said.

For those who want to challenge it, I have this to say to you;

You do not live where you used to live. We have deed restrictions here. Most of us like that very much.

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Well this should start a conversation.
Did you know that one of the Districts governance bodies is suing a resident over a very small white cross in their yard?
They should start a go fund me page to fight this.

Resident says HOA in The Villages is suing her for displaying cross, lawn ornaments (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/a-small-cross-is-causing-big-controversy-in-the-villages?fbclid=IwAR0h7toflmc8LNzI3Ixz6GXxIJPupe5R 4yPYoLouSXkgUJxvNAEwYouL4FQ)

Do No Remove it

[mikebama]

The freedom people claim when arguing for displaying the cross is not freedom of expression. That freedom is specific to public property. The freedom in question is freedom of religion. Both are parts of the First Amendment.

Freedom of religion is guaranteed. Now go ahead and show me where in the bible it says you're required to stick a white cross on your front lawn. You show me where it says you have to do that, and I will respect your right to do that.

Go ahead, I'll wait.
You first. Show me in the Bible where it says anything about the US Constitution.

[graciegirl]

Lawn ornaments are not allowed by the deed restrictions we signed when we moved to TV. We do not have an HOA.

EXACTLY. This needs repeating. This thread was started in June. Old news.

No one is targeting Christian symbols. No one is against plywood painted cutouts of bend over ladies. No one is against statues of Dalmation Dogs lifting their leg against a fire hydrant. You just aren't allowed to put anything in your yard without approval by the architectural committee. This has been challenged many, many times. You can do this where you used to live but not here.

[Two Bills]

You're up early GG!

[jdulej]

How about 9" Buddha, or 10" Crescent and Star, or 11" Wiccan emblem, or 12" Rising Sun, or 13" Totem pole. :MOJE_whot:

Or a 12 inch statue of a dollar bill?

[Kelevision]

EXACTLY. This needs repeating. This thread was started in June. Old news.

No one is targeting Christian symbols. No one is against plywood painted cutouts of bend over ladies. No one is against statues of Dalmation Dogs lifting their leg against a fire hydrant. You just aren't allowed to put anything in your yard without approval by the architectural committee. This has been challenged many, many times. You can do this where you used to live but not here.

Wow!! I’m not a lawn ornament person so I didn’t really pay attention to the rules? Are no lawn ornaments allowed? My neighborhood, some houses have so many lawn ornaments, it’s a bit unattractive.

[Altavia]

Wow!! I’m not a lawn ornament person so I didn’t really pay attention to the rules? Are no lawn ornaments allowed? My neighborhood, some houses have so many lawn ornaments, it’s a bit unattractive.


Some rules are apparently unenforceable such as parking a vehicle on a public street.

[Challenger]

Well this should start a conversation.
Did you know that one of the Districts governance bodies is suing a resident over a very small white cross in their yard?
They should start a go fund me page to fight this.

Resident says HOA in The Villages is suing her for displaying cross, lawn ornaments (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/a-small-cross-is-causing-big-controversy-in-the-villages?fbclid=IwAR0h7toflmc8LNzI3Ixz6GXxIJPupe5R 4yPYoLouSXkgUJxvNAEwYouL4FQ)

Would you feel differently if instead of a cross, it was a star and crescent, or a Buddha, or a Witch symbol ?

[JMintzer]

How about 9" Buddha, or 10" Crescent and Star, or 11" Wiccan emblem, or 12" Rising Sun, or 13" Totem pole. :MOJE_whot:

A fat lil' Buddha would be cool...

[GrumpyOldMan]

A fat lil' Buddha would be cool...

There is a Buddhist frog (Kermit?) in our neighborhood - LOL.

[njbchbum]

Wow!! I’m not a lawn ornament person so I didn’t really pay attention to the rules? Are no lawn ornaments allowed? My neighborhood, some houses have so many lawn ornaments, it’s a bit unattractive.

The covenants and deed restrictions can be different for each CDD - but I venture to say that many are the same re the placement of lawn ornaments specifically......unless one lives in the historic villages where lawn ornaments are permitted there.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

I received a letter from the law firm yesterday stating that my tenant had a lawn ornament in the front of the house, it was a metal bird like so many homes have. I contacted my tenants and they removed the item, they also talked with the attorney's office to fully understand the complain and were told that they received 65 anonymous complaints from the same person, that would be a professional troll.

If the complaints are anonymous, how do they know they are from the same person?

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

One persons bird is another persons theme park , follow the rules that you signed off on or move to some of the neighboring trailer parks , where you can always put up a velvet Elvis and everyone will admire you

[JMintzer]

One persons bird is another persons theme park , follow the rules that you signed off on or move to some of the neighboring trailer parks , where you can always put up a velvet Elvis and everyone will admire you

A tad elitist, don't ya' think?

[SGR720]

The covenants and deed restrictions can be different for each CDD - but I venture to say that many are the same re the placement of lawn ornaments specifically......unless one lives in the historic villages where lawn ornaments are permitted there.

It's not about the CDD you live in. I live in Glenbrook which is CDD 3, Polo Ridge is next to Glenbrook also in CDD 3 our deed restrictions state we are not allowed lawn ornaments but they are allowed in Polo Ridge. When we built here in 2001 Glenbrook was new development and when we toured the area we saw a variety of lawn ornaments we thought there was no enforcement of the deed restrictions we signed. We and several neighbors found out differently when we received certified letters stating we were out of compliance and we would be fined if we did not remove our ornaments. That's when we found out that the restrictions were not the same for every home. I'm pretty sure that everything south of 466 has the lawn ornament restriction.

I'd suggest everyone read what the signed and agreed to when they built/bought their house before getting bent out of shape. Most housing developments in Florida have deed restrictions and many are much stricter than the Villages.

As far as trolls go, it has always been an anonymous reporting system obviously someone reported us and our neighbors but we don't know who it was. I just assumed it was either someone who strictly abides by the rules or someone who had been reported themselves and was paying it forward. Either way no big deal my happiness does not depend on whether or not I can have a lawn ornament.

[Byte1]

I understand that there is a certain element that also wishes to remove Bibles from churches. If they refuse, then they lose their taxfree status.

[graciegirl]

I understand that there is a certain element that also wishes to remove Bibles from churches. If they refuse, then they lose their taxfree status.

That is one of the most outrageous things I have ever read. NEVER have I heard anything anywhere close to anything like that.

I have heard of people trying to get houses of worship to lose their taxfree status, but never anything about removing BIBLES or any other church THING.

That doesn't make sense at all. One is plausible and the other makes no sense whatsoever. Catholic Churches have Hymnals in their pews and a missal at the lectern. Anglican I think use a book of Common prayer in their service. Not sure what Episcopal use. Lutheran and Methodist might have a lot of Bibles in the building, but I don't remember them in the pew. Like I say I am not sure. Bibles are revered and respected by almost all Christian sects but only fundemental churches use literal interpretation. Catholics do not use literal interpretation and only recently (in the last forty years) have taken up SOME Bible study and meditations.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I understand that there is a certain element that also wishes to remove Bibles from churches. If they refuse, then they lose their taxfree status.

I am totally in favor of revoking all church's tax-free status. I don't care what they have in their churches, be it bibles, snakes, or golden idols. But, I see no reason for multi-million dollar "businesses" that fly their preachers around in private jets to go tax-free. And if we revoke theirs, then all churches have to have their tax-free status revoked.

But, I am not sure what this has to do with the thread, other than it is a TOTV tradition to segway.

[DAVES]

Well this should start a conversation.
Did you know that one of the Districts governance bodies is suing a resident over a very small white cross in their yard?
They should start a go fund me page to fight this.

Resident says HOA in The Villages is suing her for displaying cross, lawn ornaments (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/a-small-cross-is-causing-big-controversy-in-the-villages?fbclid=IwAR0h7toflmc8LNzI3Ixz6GXxIJPupe5R 4yPYoLouSXkgUJxvNAEwYouL4FQ)

Endless posts on the same subject. There are rules. People think often passionately
why they are not subject to the rules. So many threads actually endless. Yes the speed limit on golf carts is 20 mph or you need plates, insurance and a license-that does not apply to me. Pick up after your dog-that does not apply to me. Banners-that does not apply to me. Noise etc etc etc etc. People are people. First of all an 8 inch cross I do not claim to be an expert on the subject but the ones I see are larger than 8 inches.
People being people oh he has an 8 inch cross so my 12 inch cross is ok. It may not even be up any longer I saw a home where the person put up three crosses on his/her front lawn.

I've never had a conflict with, The Villages. From perhaps other posts, I think they give you a warning before taking action.

[DAVES]

I am totally in favor of revoking all church's tax-free status. I don't care what they have in their churches, be it bibles, snakes, or golden idols. But, I see no reason for multi-million dollar "businesses" that fly their preachers around in private jets to go tax-free. And if we revoke theirs, then all churches have to have their tax-free status revoked.

But, I am not sure what this has to do with the thread, other than it is a TOTV tradition to segway.

Re: taxes. All think someone else, anyone else but them should pay.

As far as tax free churches, it is not just churches but all religious buildings.

I recall reading years ago, a teacher's group was spreading. One of them was creating paperwork that each was a religious leader, a church and they thus were tax free. The taxman shut them down.

Tax free? There are no shortage of not for profit, charitable businesses where the top people are paid millions.

[DAVES]

It's not about the CDD you live in. I live in Glenbrook which is CDD 3, Polo Ridge is next to Glenbrook also in CDD 3 our deed restrictions state we are not allowed lawn ornaments but they are allowed in Polo Ridge. When we built here in 2001 Glenbrook was new development and when we toured the area we saw a variety of lawn ornaments we thought there was no enforcement of the deed restrictions we signed. We and several neighbors found out differently when we received certified letters stating we were out of compliance and we would be fined if we did not remove our ornaments. That's when we found out that the restrictions were not the same for every home. I'm pretty sure that everything south of 466 has the lawn ornament restriction.

I'd suggest everyone read what the signed and agreed to when they built/bought their house before getting bent out of shape. Most housing developments in Florida have deed restrictions and many are much stricter than the Villages.

As far as trolls go, it has always been an anonymous reporting system obviously someone reported us and our neighbors but we don't know who it was. I just assumed it was either someone who strictly abides by the rules or someone who had been reported themselves and was paying it forward. Either way no big deal my happiness does not depend on whether or not I can have a lawn ornament.

Well said. Closing on a home here. Last time, many years ago the closing paperwork was four pages. Here it was like 30. I was told they allow 15 minutes for a closing.
My mom taught me, you never sign anything without reading it and understanding it.
I asked for and got a copy before closing and the 15 minutes gave me just enough time to be sure what they were asking me to sign matched the copy I reviewed with my attorney.

"Someone who had been reported themselves," Sadly, these things can and do make things miserable for all.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

One persons bird is another persons theme park , follow the rules that you signed off on or move to some of the neighboring trailer parks , where you can always put up a velvet Elvis and everyone will admire you

Why would you need to go to a neighboring trailer park, when we have a perfectly lovely one right here in the Villages, and we allow our neighbors to express their creativity? If you can do a rockin' velvet Elvis painting, I totally want to see it.

[GrumpyOldMan]

That is one of the most outrageous things I have ever read. NEVER have I heard anything anywhere close to anything like that.

I have heard of people trying to get houses of worship to lose their taxfree status, but never anything about removing BIBLES or any other church THING.

That doesn't make sense at all. One is plausible and the other makes no sense whatsoever. Catholic Churches have Hymnals in their pews and a missal at the lectern. Anglican I think use a book of Common prayer in their service. Not sure what Episcopal use. Lutheran and Methodist might have a lot of Bibles in the building, but I don't remember them in the pew. Like I say I am not sure. Bibles are revered and respected by almost all Christian sects but only fundemental churches use literal interpretation. Catholics do not use literal interpretation and only recently (in the last forty years) have taken up SOME Bible study and meditations.

I expect it was sarcasm, but you never know here.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Re: taxes. All think someone else, anyone else but them should pay.

As far as tax free churches, it is not just churches but all religious buildings.

I recall reading years ago, a teacher's group was spreading. One of them was creating paperwork that each was a religious leader, a church and they thus were tax free. The taxman shut them down.

Tax free? There are no shortage of not for profit, charitable businesses where the top people are paid millions.

I agree, I don't think any "non-profit" (LOL) should be tax free.

My brother was a Southern Baptist minister his whole life and so never paid income tax. So, I understand that. But, at least he didn't own a private jet by promising to pray over photo's of poor people for a small "donation".

[frose]

when they pay my property taxes, they can tell me what i can put on my property, until then screw bug off.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Well said. Closing on a home here. Last time, many years ago the closing paperwork was four pages. Here it was like 30. I was told they allow 15 minutes for a closing.
My mom taught me, you never sign anything without reading it and understanding it.
I asked for and got a copy before closing and the 15 minutes gave me just enough time to be sure what they were asking me to sign matched the copy I reviewed with my attorney.

"Someone who had been reported themselves," Sadly, these things can and do make things miserable for all.


I none of the closing paper work has ever been 4 pages on any house I have purchased. But, okay. As for 15 minutes, that is not my personal experience. I was not rushed at all. I had all the time I wanted to read and ask questions. I was provided with refreshments and help on anything I didn't understand. Here was the most pleasant home buying experience I have ever had.

I mentioned the "no lawn ornaments" clause in the covenant, and that I had seen some around as we were driving around TV. They said that enforcement was complaint driven and normally small unoffensive ornaments received a "letter" only if a complaint was filed.

I think "Christians" for a past few decades have felt persecuted and look for any excuse to add to that feeling, but I could be wrong.

[JMintzer]

I am totally in favor of revoking all church's tax-free status. I don't care what they have in their churches, be it bibles, snakes, or golden idols. But, I see no reason for multi-million dollar "businesses" that fly their preachers around in private jets to go tax-free. And if we revoke theirs, then all churches have to have their tax-free status revoked.

But, I am not sure what this has to do with the thread, other than it is a TOTV tradition to segway.

So, because of a few "mega-churches" acting badly, you want to throw the baby out with the holy water?

[GrumpyOldMan]

So, because of a few "mega-churches" acting badly, you want to throw the baby out with the holy water?

No, I think giving tax-free status is the government supporting religion which is not supposed to be allowed.

[JMintzer]

No, I think giving tax-free status is the government supporting religion which is not supposed to be allowed.

You read the Constitution wrong...

[RVJim]

I was raised Southern Baptist, and I was "taught" that a "good Christian did not advertise their religion, instead, they demonstrated it in their daily lives.

(Edited: But, what do I know, I turned into an atheist...)

Southern Baptists have changed since you were a kid. Now they believe themselves to be the most persecuted religion on the planet and, because of this, they believe their rights and wants Trump everyone else’s.

[B-flat]

when they pay my property taxes, they can tell me what i can put on my property, until then screw bug off.

Frose, I like your style!! Right on!!

[GrumpyOldMan]

Southern Baptists have changed since you were a kid. Now they believe themselves to be the most persecuted religion on the planet and, because of this, they believe their rights and wants Trump everyone else’s.

Well, they actually sort of had a schism, and those that were the most literalist stayed with the name SBC and the rest moved on. But, yes, they do tend to exhibit a lot of paranoia today.

As far as "their" rights. I respect that someone that believes there is a GOD who created everything, and that GOD is at war with a fallen angel, then they have to pick a side, GOD or Satan, ie, you are with GOD or against GOD. I disagree with them, but that is what makes life interesting, deciding what to believe and why.

[GrumpyOldMan]

You read the Constitution wrong...

In what way? I would be very interested in your "reading".

In Lemon v. Kurtzman, the Court established a three-pronged test for laws dealing with the religious establishment. To be constitutional a statute must have “a secular legislative purpose,” it must have principal effects that neither advance nor inhibit religion, and it must not foster “an excessive government entanglement with religion.

So, by making churches (and their employees) tax-free, the government is in fact making some churches possible that would not otherwise exist because they couldn't afford to "pay" the staff. And since the government makes the decision WHICH churches get that status they are establishing a government-sanctioned religion.

In Lynch v. Donnelly (1984), O’Connor noted that the establishment clause prohibits the government from making adherence to a religion relevant to a person’s standing in the political community. Her fundamental concern was whether government action conveyed a message to non-adherents that they are outsiders. As an atheist, I can assure you that by giving tax support to any church I am made to feel that I am in fact an "outsider".

So, I could go on and on and on. But, I am interested in your take on it.

[tvbound]

I am totally in favor of revoking all church's tax-free status. I don't care what they have in their churches, be it bibles, snakes, or golden idols. But, I see no reason for multi-million dollar "businesses" that fly their preachers around in private jets to go tax-free. And if we revoke theirs, then all churches have to have their tax-free status revoked.

But, I am not sure what this has to do with the thread, other than it is a TOTV tradition to segway.


"I am totally in favor of revoking all church's tax-free status."


Same here, particularly those who get 'p-word' involved. I just read that Pat Robertson is stepping down from something and then looked up his net worth. It is conservatively estimated that his personal net worth is $100+ MILLION and other similar notorious religious leaders, are also extremely wealthy. It's just hard for me to reconcile/understand that blatant hypocrisy. Something about a camel and the eye of a needle - comes to mind.

[graciegirl]

when they pay my property taxes, they can tell me what i can put on my property, until then screw bug off.

Allow me to look you directly in the eye.

If you put something in your yard that is not allowed by the deed restrictions in The Villages, Florida, ..................Someone can report you.

If that happens then a note will be sent you, if it is indeed a violation, and the note will say you are in violation and to remove whatever it is and you have thirty days. I don't know if they patiently remind you again or not, but after "they" reach a certain point then fines are placed on your property.

As Judge Judy (who I like very much, don't start Noodge) says It is a contract.

A legal contract that you signed when you closed on your property and if you sell it the next person is also under that contract.

MANY of us have had deed restrictions in our prior homes and we have found that this sort of thing keeps people from trashing up their property and keeps all of our property values up.

[MrFlorida]

I like rules, that's why I moved here.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Allow me to look you directly in the eye.

If you put something in your yard that is not allowed by the deed restrictions in The Villages, Florida, ..................Someone can report you.

If that happens then a note will be sent you, if it is indeed a violation, and the note will say you are in violation and to remove whatever it is and you have thirty days. I don't know if they patiently remind you again or not, but after "they" reach a certain point then fines are placed on your property.

As Judge Judy (who I like very much, don't start Noodge) says It is a contract.

A legal contract that you signed when you closed on your property and if you sell it the next person is also under that contract.

MANY of us have had deed restrictions in our prior homes and we have found that this sort of thing keeps people from trashing up their property and keeps all of our property values up.

Once upon a time, a person's word was trustworthy. Now, even a written and signed contract is subject to "I didn't read it", or "I got rights", or "They can't make me".

Sad times when honor is optional.

[tvbound]

I am totally in favor of revoking all church's tax-free status. I don't care what they have in their churches, be it bibles, snakes, or golden idols. But, I see no reason for multi-million dollar "businesses" that fly their preachers around in private jets to go tax-free. And if we revoke theirs, then all churches have to have their tax-free status revoked.

But, I am not sure what this has to do with the thread, other than it is a TOTV tradition to segway.

"...it is a TOTV tradition to segway."

While not trying to be one of those kind of people who constantly corrects spelling/punctuation, but this made me laugh. While the word I think you're looking for is spelled 'segue,' the fact that the inventor of that device met his demise while riding one over a cliff - also actually fits well with a lot of TOTV threads. LOL

[GrumpyOldMan]

"...it is a TOTV tradition to segway."

While not trying to be one of those kind of people who constantly corrects spelling/punctuation, but this made me laugh. While the word I think you're looking for is spelled 'segue,' the fact that the inventor of that device met his demise while riding one over a cliff - also actually fits well with a lot of TOTV threads. LOL

Thank you, I actually do appreciate the corrections. And yes, I was typing segue, I don't know if spelling autocorrects got me, or my hands had a mind of their own - LOL.

[Djean1981]

Exactly..

[drcar]

when they pay my property taxes, they can tell me what i can put on my property, until then screw bug off.

WOW, not sure how you can state that, everywhere I have lived they, the the local governing authority, has rules on what you can and can't do.

[Kelevision]

"...it is a TOTV tradition to segway."

While not trying to be one of those kind of people who constantly corrects spelling/punctuation, but this made me laugh. While the word I think you're looking for is spelled 'segue,' the fact that the inventor of that device met his demise while riding one over a cliff - also actually fits well with a lot of TOTV threads. LOL

He wasn’t the inventor. He was the guy who bought it.

[tvbound]

He wasn’t the inventor. He was the guy who bought it.

Good point, as it happened to the owner of the company and not the actual inventor. Thank you for the correction, even though the basic same irony between TOTV threads and the (tragic) incident - still applies.

Segway company owner rides scooter off cliff, dies (/id/wbna39377851)

[GrumpyOldMan]

Please recognize that you will make few friends here by throwing shade on anyone for being old like you just did to me.

My wife and I were talking about this just yesterday on our morning walk. It is amazing how many OLD people there are here - I mean like they are everywhere!

No one told me everyone was going to be old before I bought here. LOL!

[drcar]

I think it is time for this post be removed, it is WAYYYYYY off subject and the subject has been beaten to death!

[JMintzer]

In what way? I would be very interested in your "reading".

In Lemon v. Kurtzman, the Court established a three-pronged test for laws dealing with the religious establishment. To be constitutional a statute must have “a secular legislative purpose,” it must have principal effects that neither advance nor inhibit religion, and it must not foster “an excessive government entanglement with religion.

So, by making churches (and their employees) tax-free, the government is in fact making some churches possible that would not otherwise exist because they couldn't afford to "pay" the staff. And since the government makes the decision WHICH churches get that status they are establishing a government-sanctioned religion.

In Lynch v. Donnelly (1984), O’Connor noted that the establishment clause prohibits the government from making adherence to a religion relevant to a person’s standing in the political community. Her fundamental concern was whether government action conveyed a message to non-adherents that they are outsiders. As an atheist, I can assure you that by giving tax support to any church I am made to feel that I am in fact an "outsider".

So, I could go on and on and on. But, I am interested in your take on it.

Freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion...

And one could extrapolate your last point to say that ANY charity that I don't feel part of must cease to receive tax exempt status...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

There is no religion that I'm aware of that mandates the adherent place a white cross on their front lawn. I've read the Old and New Testament, the Quran, the Bhagavad-Gita, and the Book of Mormon. I've also read a few Wiccan books, though they don't have specific dogma, and I've read the Book of Satan.

In zero of these books, is there any mention of requiring a cross be placed on someone's front lawn.

The closest thing to it is Deuteronomy 6:8, which is a sort of affirmation for Jews, if they wish to express their love for god. It's a passage that every American Jew who's ever grown up going to synagogue has memorized, in both English and Hebrew.

But even that isn't about planting crosses or ANY religious symbol on a front lawn. It refers to the mezuzzah, a small capsule-like amulet containing a copy of the sh'ma and a couple of other passages, that is nailed to the doorpost of the house, and on the gate.

That's it.

There is no religious cause to put a cross on your front lawn, therefore it is not a protected right under the Constitution.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion...

And one could extrapolate your last point to say that ANY charity that I don't feel part of must cease to receive tax exempt status...

I don't understand your reply, sorry. Freedom OF religion, yes, you can practice any religion you want. Nothing I said in any way says freedom FROM religion for you or me. The constitution is very clear the government can not pick a religion to promote or support. So, the question is, can the government give a religion a tax break. I say no, others say yes, we will see.

Yes, I personally believe there should be no such thing as tax exempt. But, let's not forget I am also in favor of reducing the 34,000 (or so) pages of federal tax code down to maybe a dozen or less.

[justjim]

I guess you missed this the first time around, there were 158 posts.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/small-white-crosses-310508/?highlight=White+cross

Enjoy!

This subject has been thoroughly discussed. :bigbow: IMHO it’s not what is in the deed restrictions (thou should nots) but what was left out that could impact our real estate values the most. I’m specifically talking about the ability to rent out your home in The Villages by the month, by the week or by the night as an Airbnb. I do not care to live next door to an Airbnb and they are legal here in The Villages and becoming more and more popular. Yeah, I know it’s ok as long as it’s not in my neighborhood.

[JMintzer]

I don't understand your reply, sorry. Freedom OF religion, yes, you can practice any religion you want. Nothing I said in any way says freedom FROM religion for you or me. The constitution is very clear the government can not pick a religion to promote or support. So, the question is, can the government give a religion a tax break. I say no, others say yes, we will see.

Yes, I personally believe there should be no such thing as tax exempt. But, let's not forget I am also in favor of reducing the 34,000 (or so) pages of federal tax code down to maybe a dozen or less.

If only one could pay their taxes by filling out a post card...

For the life of me, I don't know why no one has run on that platform in the past...

[GrumpyOldMan]

If only one could pay their taxes by filling out a post card...

For the life of me, I don't know why no one has run on that platform in the past...

Why have to fill out a postcard? There is no reason the government can't simply take the taxes by you setting up a direct payment from a CC or bank account.

The insanity is amazing, I have to understand (some? all?) 34,000 pages of taxes codes to fill out a tax form and figure out how much I have to pay. Calling the IRS to get a clarification often results in incorrect information. If I figure it out wrong, I have to pay a fine. So, I am punished for not understanding what the IRS employees themselves don't understand.

I have for decades had the position that if I was ever elected DICTATOR my first act would be to give all the congress critters legal pads and pencils. And they would have 60 days to write as many laws as they could on paper and get them passed. At the end of 60 days, ALL EXISTING laws and tax codes would be removed and only those they had written and passed would be in force. (Oh and no staff doing the writing, the staff can research, the congress critter has to write it out longhand.) On and on the first day I would fire ALL congress critters and draft a new set via Sortition that would have a single 6-year term.

[JMintzer]

Why have to fill out a postcard? There is no reason the government can't simply take the taxes by you setting up a direct payment from a CC or bank account.

The insanity is amazing, I have to understand (some? all?) 34,000 pages of taxes codes to fill out a tax form and figure out how much I have to pay. Calling the IRS to get a clarification often results in incorrect information. If I figure it out wrong, I have to pay a fine. So, I am punished for not understanding what the IRS employees themselves don't understand.

I have for decades had the position that if I was ever elected DICTATOR my first act would be to give all the congress critters legal pads and pencils. And they would have 60 days to write as many laws as they could on paper and get them passed. At the end of 60 days, ALL EXISTING laws and tax codes would be removed and only those they had written and passed would be in force. (Oh and no staff doing the writing, the staff can research, the congress critter has to write it out longhand.) On and on the first day I would fire ALL congress critters and draft a new set via Sortition that would have a single 6-year term.

A postcard is LESS than 12 pages...

Oh, and thank God, you'll never be "elected DICTATOR" (btw, isn't that a oxymoron? :icon_wink: )

[dougjb]

Based upon what I am reading, I see nothing wrong with an 8 inch cross.

But, since I have a 12 inch cross in my front lawn, I do not want to be outdone by my neighbors, so I am considering putting in a 4 foot cross. I also ordered a 12 foot cross in case anyone wants to out do me. And, of course, I want to put two smaller crosses next to them. I think they are 10 feet high but eight feet across. I also plan to put lights on them so that people will notice them 24/7. I am also contemplating putting in praying statues that will also sing hymns (softly, of course....unless my neighbors play theirs a bit louder).

Does anyone see anything wrong with this? If so, complain and I will bring it to a courtroom to prove that I wear my religion on my sleeve and I want all of my neighborhood and my close neighbors to tolerate and even endorse my religion. If they don't like it, let them put up a bigger cross! Afterall, the covenants we signed and agree to when we bought our place mean nothing if it limits me in any way, shape or form!

Of course, I would not view myself as being "entitled". That is a dirty word. It interferes with my understanding that I am the center of everything.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

If only one could pay their taxes by filling out a post card...

For the life of me, I don't know why no one has run on that platform in the past...

Yeah that didn't work out so well. We thought it'd be that easy, til we got to one of the lines on the form. Turns out we had to fill out a couple of other forms, to find out what we needed to put on that line.

So we did that - and got to another line, that required we fill out another form to find out what to put on that line. And as it turned out, we weren't eligible to put anything down on that line, so we spent a half hour filling out a form to learn that the answer to that line was zero.

That postcard form is only easy for people who know, in advance, that they won't be itemizing and are taking only the standard deduction, and nothing else, and have no capital gains or losses, or have paid any taxable interest on investments.

For everyone else, you need more forms before you can fill out that postcard.

[mulligan]

when they pay my property taxes, they can tell me what i can put on my property, until then screw bug off.

You already agreed to follow the deed restrictions. Apparently your word is worth NOTHING.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Based upon what I am reading, I see nothing wrong with an 8 inch cross.

But, since I have a 12 inch cross in my front lawn, I do not want to be outdone by my neighbors, so I am considering putting in a 4 foot cross. I also ordered a 12 foot cross in case anyone wants to out do me. And, of course, I want to put two smaller crosses next to them. I think they are 10 feet high but eight feet across. I also plan to put lights on them so that people will notice them 24/7. I am also contemplating putting in praying statues that will also sing hymns (softly, of course....unless my neighbors play theirs a bit louder).

Does anyone see anything wrong with this? If so, complain and I will bring it to a courtroom to prove that I wear my religion on my sleeve and I want all of my neighborhood and my close neighbors to tolerate and even endorse my religion. If they don't like it, let them put up a bigger cross! Afterall, the covenants we signed and agree to when we bought our place mean nothing if it limits me in any way, shape or form!

Of course, I would not view myself as being "entitled". That is a dirty word. It interferes with my understanding that I am the center of everything.

One persons cross is another person’s Holy Land Park

[golfing eagles]

You already agreed to follow the deed restrictions. Apparently your word is worth NOTHING.

But it's not just his word, it is IN WRITING, and it can and will be enforced

[Number 10 GI]

Little white crosses, dog poop, and mask posts!!!!!!!!! Do you remember the Laurel and Hardy episode where Hardy worked in a car horn factory? Every time he heard a car horn he would freak out. Everything that can be said about these three topics has been said dozens and dozens of times. That poor dead horse is a bloody pulp.

[GrumpyOldMan]

But it's not just his word, it is IN WRITING, and it can and will be enforced

True, but that just means giving his word was documented, which means his word is worth even less than nothing.

Sadly, it seems so often today there are no consequences for actions. So, maybe nothing will happen anyway and his lack of honor will be reenforced. Sigh.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Little white crosses, dog poop, and mask posts!!!!!!!!! Do you remember the Laurel and Hardy episode where Hardy worked in a car horn factory? Every time he heard a car horn he would freak out. Everything that can be said about these three topics has been said dozens and dozens of times. That poor dead horse is a bloody pulp.

Yes it is, and my prediction is it will continue to be beaten until it is completely liquified.

[JMintzer]

Yeah that didn't work out so well. We thought it'd be that easy, til we got to one of the lines on the form. Turns out we had to fill out a couple of other forms, to find out what we needed to put on that line.

So we did that - and got to another line, that required we fill out another form to find out what to put on that line. And as it turned out, we weren't eligible to put anything down on that line, so we spent a half hour filling out a form to learn that the answer to that line was zero.

That postcard form is only easy for people who know, in advance, that they won't be itemizing and are taking only the standard deduction, and nothing else, and have no capital gains or losses, or have paid any taxable interest on investments.

For everyone else, you need more forms before you can fill out that postcard.

Well, it didn't work out so well because it was never tried...

I'd explain it in more detail, but even mentioning who suggested it will earn me, yet another vacation...

[Byte1]

Yeah that didn't work out so well. We thought it'd be that easy, til we got to one of the lines on the form. Turns out we had to fill out a couple of other forms, to find out what we needed to put on that line.

So we did that - and got to another line, that required we fill out another form to find out what to put on that line. And as it turned out, we weren't eligible to put anything down on that line, so we spent a half hour filling out a form to learn that the answer to that line was zero.

That postcard form is only easy for people who know, in advance, that they won't be itemizing and are taking only the standard deduction, and nothing else, and have no capital gains or losses, or have paid any taxable interest on investments.

For everyone else, you need more forms before you can fill out that postcard.

Life is so full of difficulties. I find if very simple to use the electronic method....just saying.

[Stu from NYC]

Yes it is, and my prediction is it will continue to be beaten until it is completely liquified.

So liquefied comes after beating the dead horse?

Wonder what percentage of us completely reads all the documents thrown at us at closing.

[Kelevision]

So liquefied comes after beating the dead horse?

Wonder what percentage of us completely reads all the documents thrown at us at closing.

I read it! I didn’t read parts that didn’t pertain to me but it was quite easy to read tbh. My question is why would you NOT read the documents you just signed your name to?

[GrumpyOldMan]

I read it! I didn’t read parts that didn’t pertain to me but it was quite easy to read tbh. My question is why would you NOT read the documents you just signed your name to?

Yeah, I too find it fascinating that so many people spent over a 1/4 million dollars and didn't bother to read what they were signing when paying that. I guess for them a 1/4 million is just pocket change and not worth their time to read contracts.

[GrumpyOldMan]

So liquefied comes after beating the dead horse?

Wonder what percentage of us completely reads all the documents thrown at us at closing.

I did, it must be nice to be rich enough to not care what they are spending a 1/4 million or more on.

[Bill14564]

I read it! I didn’t read parts that didn’t pertain to me but it was quite easy to read tbh. My question is why would you NOT read the documents you just signed your name to?

Technically, once you have signed your name you have all the time in the world to read the documents. Perhaps you meant to ask why you would not read the documents BEFORE you signed your name.

I certainly did not read every word of every paragraph of every page of every document at closing. I trusted the closing agent to explain the reason for the document. I trusted that the documents I was signing were standard for the area and that 100,000+ before me had signed the same or very similar documents. I reviewed numbers, addresses, and names to be sure the items that were unique to my situation were correct. And there were a few documents that I read carefully before signing. All of that, but I cannot say I read every document. Perhaps that was a mistake but I'm in the house and in the neighborhood that I wanted so it seems to have worked for me so far.

[DonH57]

Well this should start a conversation.
Did you know that one of the Districts governance bodies is suing a resident over a very small white cross in their yard?
They should start a go fund me page to fight this.

Resident says HOA in The Villages is suing her for displaying cross, lawn ornaments (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/a-small-cross-is-causing-big-controversy-in-the-villages?fbclid=IwAR0h7toflmc8LNzI3Ixz6GXxIJPupe5R 4yPYoLouSXkgUJxvNAEwYouL4FQ)

Which district do they live in? Not all districts have restrictions on lawn ornaments.

[Bogie Shooter]

Which district do they live in? Not all districts have restrictions on lawn ornaments.

The district was in the provided link. :doh:

[Nick B]

Last February we were on our Saturday morning yard sale tour and noticed a house in Duval that had Halloween, Christmas and Valentine's decorations all over their yard at the same time. How tacky is that!
Sorry no I will take down the valentine stuff. Too much I guess

[Nick B]

The only reason this is happening is because there is some busybody in that neighborhood who complained. Who in this world would complain about one small white cross - is it what it represents that bothers them so bad? Shameful. Only anonymous complaints are addressed by the District and someone in that area is a sad and sorry individual.
It is what it represents and it's not what most would think. Read about it.

[Nick B]

I remember people like that. It all started way back when.

Europeans came here and wanted it to be like Europe, so they started killing the natives.
Then came those darn Germans Polish Italians Irish.Bringing their fancy Europe ways here.

[Nick B]

I think it is time for this post be removed, it is WAYYYYYY off subject and the subject has been beaten to death!
You could just leave it.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

It is what it represents and it's not what most would think. Read about it.

It represents different things, depending on who is putting it there.

It can represent an advertisement to make sure all the neighbors know "a Christian lives here." I don't know why anyone should need to advertise that, but some folks do, it comforts them, and that's fine.

It can represent a dead beloved pet buried in front of (or behind) the location of the cross. A gravemarker, in other words.

It can represent a signal that a KKK member or other white supremacist, or sympathizer, lives in the house.

The problem is that you don't know which of the three it is, without communicating with the person directly. And at that point, if you don't like the answer, it's too late. You can't "unknow" what you just heard from the homeowner's lips.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

The crosses to me are a form of arrogance, hey look at me I’m a better Christian then you are , I wonder if these alleged better Christians would be ok with some devil worshipers cult symbol . Or a crescent moon or Wiccan oh I forgot they would be no no because after all as many people state we are a Christian Nation for me although I don’t practice it I do try to follow the way of the Buddha and the world would be a better place for us all

[tvbound]

The crosses to me are a form of arrogance, hey look at me I’m a better Christian then you are , I wonder if these alleged better Christians would be ok with some devil worshipers cult symbol . Or a crescent moon or Wiccan oh I forgot they would be no no because after all as many people state we are a Christian Nation for me although I don’t practice it I do try to follow the way of the Buddha and the world would be a better place for us all

"hey look at me I’m a better Christian then you are"


Very similar to those who think flying the most American flags, makes them the most patriotic.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I actually was going to say that but didn’t , people are always having problems with disrespect of a flag when I think the worse disrespect is done by car dealers with a multiple flags flying letting you know they are real Americans trust us , or the village Patriots I’m combat vet I don’t have a hat or t shirt never needed a parade or strangers respect I only welcomed or needed the respect of the guys who fought with me and I had that the rest means nothing

[Byte1]

Wow, it started out as cross envy or fear to flag envy or fear.
If the deed restrictions say you can't have it, then technically you cannot have it. Not that I care because I have one in my yard and no one is going to complain. If the cross scare you, please stop by and tell me so. I am sure that depending on the time of day, I might care what a stranger thinks of my yard.
You all worry about the simplest things.
No one has even mentioned what these particular little crosses represent. I am not going to tell you the story of these particular crosses, because many of you would not care and most of you that have them probably already know the story.
It is rather pathetic or humorous that the same folks that complain about the tiny crosses are the same ones that drive down a street past numerous lawn violations without even noticing or just not caring. But, a cross is as fearful to you as garlic to a vampire.
Life is full of obstacles much larger and serious than this little matter. Like someone else suggested, I do not need my little cross to prove my faith. I do not need the Bible or even church to prove my faith. You either believe or you don't.
Whether or not it matters, I personally enjoy counting the little white crosses on the streets I travel. It would probably bother me to see little silver swastikas displayed on several lawns, and I would probably move away from such a neighborhood. But, I would not complain to the authorities about it. I still believe in the Constitution over the right of a community to ban certain objects/subjects.
Take them down or keep them, makes no difference to me. Help yourself and quit complaining over the simple things when there is much more going on in the world that really matters.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

The Nazi swastika is a symbol of the Buddha’s footprints and is placed on many statues of the Buddha and used by Hindus also so be careful before you move check if your neighbors are wearing long black leather jackets and boots or sandals

[Kelevision]

"hey look at me I’m a better Christian then you are"


Very similar to those who think flying the most American flags, makes them the most patriotic.

:bigbow: