Critical Race Theory in schools

[Taltarzac725]

One problem with your question -- critical race theory it's not being taught in schools. It's being hyped by some media and politicians just like Sharia Law was hyped in recent years as though it's a real problem...just to scare people. Let's not fall victim to yet another bunch of hokum.

It might come up at law schools more often and once in a while in college in History, Philosophy, Art, Literature, Political Science, and other kinds of classes.

Probably not so much anywhere below 10th grade. And then only if they see it all over the news. Then everyone gets in the fray.

[blueash]

Black Americans have been systematically subjected to overt and hidden racism and racial agendas since they arrived on this continent in 1619. Those who deny it are likely hidden racists or overt racists themselves as they simply see what happened as "history" and not a big deal. I offer a passage I came across today doing a family tree. It is from a newspaper in Bluefield WV in 1911, a Union state I would point out and 50 years after the South formed a new country to protect slavery as the most import right of their states.

A bill has been drafted to separate white and colored races on railroads, preferably in separate cars but if needed in separate areas of single cars.

"The separate accommodations.. the demand for it being practically unanimous among the white people. Many of the better class of colored people also favor the law as they realize that it means better accommodations for their people than can be given under existing conditions and also that whatever is a tendency to lessen the friction between the two races is greatly to the benefit of the colored people. Of course there are some colored people who opposed to the measure but they would equally be opposed to separate schools and we all know that this is not the sentiment of the better colored people. Properly looked at the law cannot be considered in any sense as an effort to discriminate against the negro"

This is the real American history. This is what white people did and still do to convince themselves that they are being more than fair to those negro people who at least the better negroes see as the best way forward. Why everyone knows a negro wouldn't want to be in a white school, and there is going to be friction if the races don't stay separated. Tell me Fox people, can you hear the 1911 version of Hannity making this speech?

Critical race theory would teach this material, and yes it might lead some bright students to see the parallels between the kind of mental gymnastics that Senator French used and that used now. Certainly can't present that sort of material or it might open some eyes to the reality of the ugly ugly history of racism that neither ended with the Civil War nor the election of 2008.

[SkBlogW]

One problem with your question -- critical race theory it's not being taught in schools. It's being hyped by some media and politicians just like Sharia Law was hyped in recent years as though it's a real problem...just to scare people. Let's not fall victim to yet another bunch of hokum.

Website by Cornell Law School professor tracks CRT training in schools

Critical Race Training in Education (https://criticalrace.org/)

[Bucco]

Website by Cornell Law School professor tracks CRT training in schools

Critical Race Training in Education (https://criticalrace.org/)

Created by William Jacobson, a known conservative activist who has had videos on YouTube taken down

His record of right wing extremist views is well known.

Again, allow elected officials and activists in the P arena to dictate what is taught, as a replacement for truth, to our children ?

[jimjamuser]

You mean the research I do? I can't fix your world view nor would I try to do that. It's just sad to see people who won't take the time to actually look at what's happening in our country today. They will be the first to go "What happened to the United States?"
What happened to the US. I think most Of us (at least 70%) are asking ourselves that question. I can think of about 10 factors. I can talk about one of them that relates directly to CRT, which I think is a clumsy and confusing name. (It has caused confusion here. It does seem foreign or socialist-type scary) I would call it.....teaching the TRUE history of the US......not WHITEwashing it (pun intended). A free society has zero reasons to try to duck the TRUTH. My high school never mentioned the Tulsa massacre or the Rosewood, Fl one. I was mature enough in 8th grade to take in those TRUTHS. I had Black friends that I played sports with that I could have had a reasonable conversation with on that subject. Race relations would be SO much better today if in 1965 President Johnson had EXTENDED Civil Rights laws to encourage Blacks and White to live in the SAME neighborhoods - by tax credits for builders of new developments or whatever would have made that happen. In the 60s my white neighborhood was physically far away from the Black neighborhood in the same town - that made RELATING to each other more difficult. In college and in the Air Farce, it was much easier to relate to other races - there was less physical SEPERATION!

[SkBlogW]

Created by William Jacobson, a known conservative activist who has had videos on YouTube taken down

His record of right wing extremist views is well known.

Again, allow elected officials and activists in the P arena to dictate what is taught, as a replacement for truth, to our children ?

Jacobsen is a lot more credible than far left extremists at NYT CNN MSNBC CBS etc etc Their record of far left extremist views is well known

See how this works?

Teachers and their unions are completely activist and political. Take a look at their donation records.

89841

[jimjamuser]

The problem is the radicalism of many, if not most, educators. This has been a growing problem since the late 60's.
I doubt that the teachers in Kansas and Nebraska are particularly radical - maybe many in the Northeast and Ca. and Wa. - and I could see those as being SOMEWHAT left of center, but still PATRIOTIC and NOT all out Mao-type communists. The dangerous segments of society today are the anarchists, the proud boys, the QANON followers, and other dark media viewers.

[jimjamuser]

So, ONLY blacks and browns are affected by "gerrymandering?" And only blacks and browns stand in long lines to vote? Are you suggesting that blacks and browns are too ignorant to use early voting? Sounds a bit racist to me.
I NEVER suggested that Blacks and Browns were too ignorant at ANYTHING. I WOULD suggest that maybe you should get more informed about the dark, hidden ramifications about the lines drawn by gerrymandering.

[Byte1]

I NEVER suggested that Blacks and Browns were too ignorant at ANYTHING. I WOULD suggest that maybe you should get more informed about the dark, hidden ramifications about the lines drawn by gerrymandering.

Actually, you did by insinuation. I have yet to see ANY evidence that blacks and browns are kept from voting due to "gerrymandering" and that is what you indicated. You seem to assume that ALL blacks and browns vote according to a particular party line, but even then it just isn't so. No American citizen is hindered from voting today. Not even the dead, apparently.

And once again, you are making the discussion into a political theme and it will likely be closed

[Bucco]

Jacobsen is a lot more credible than far left extremists at NYT CNN MSNBC CBS etc etc Their record of far left extremist views is well known

See how this works?

Teachers and their unions are completely activist and political. Take a look at their donation records.

89841

1, I am married to a public school teacher who taught for 34 years

2. I have been a substitute teacher my self for a few years. But most of my time was spent working for the GOP. Yes...the GOP. Party left me when it became radical and un American.

3. Teacher Unions are active, and in fact exist because of tenure laws. That means, without tenure they can be fired at the whim of any politically elected person, no matter their reviews or performance.

4. Nobody teaches what you folks are railing against. It is not a subject, and if you took the time to read about it, you would find it is not something to fear as you are being told.

5. Read this as a start....What Is Critical Race Theory, and Why Is It Under Attack? (https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05)

6. New York Post May be the only place you will see what you posted. A another Murdoch (think Fox) entity....both of them under severe pressure to become more extreme as ratings have tumbled.

Just wanted to make sure you know that I know “how this works” before you challenge me again. You really have no clue.

[Bucco]

Jacobsen is a lot more credible than far left extremists at NYT CNN MSNBC CBS etc etc Their record of far left extremist views is well known

See how this works?

Teachers and their unions are completely activist and political. Take a look at their donation records.

89841

////

[jimjamuser]

Actually, you did by insinuation. I have yet to see ANY evidence that blacks and browns are kept from voting due to "gerrymandering" and that is what you indicated. You seem to assume that ALL blacks and browns vote according to a particular party line, but even then it just isn't so. No American citizen is hindered from voting today. Not even the dead, apparently.

And once again, you are making the discussion into a political theme and it will likely be closed
Some of us, in THIS lifetime, are a little too SUPERFICIAL - let us hope that the next lifetime bodes better - where ALL the ramifications of CRT and gerrymandering are explained - starting in 4th grade.

[SkBlogW]

1, I am married to a public school teacher who taught for 34 years

2. I have been a substitute teacher my self for a few years. But most of my time was spent working for the GOP. Yes...the GOP. Party left me when it became radical and un American.

3. Teacher Unions are active, and in fact exist because of tenure laws. That means, without tenure they can be fired at the whim of any politically elected person, no matter their reviews or performance.

4. Nobody teaches what you folks are railing against. It is not a subject, and if you took the time to read about it, you would find it is not something to fear as you are being told.

5. Read this as a start....What Is Critical Race Theory, and Why Is It Under Attack? (https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05)

6. New York Post May be the only place you will see what you posted. A another Murdoch (think Fox) entity....both of them under severe pressure to become more extreme as ratings have tumbled.

Just wanted to make sure you know that I know “how this works” before you challenge me again. You really have no clue.

Fox ratings have tumbled? Why are you posting misinformation?

Hint: Bigger numbers means you have more viewers and higher ratings

Total Viewers (Live+SD x 1,000)

Total Day: FNC: 1.477 | CNN: 624 | MSNBC: 1.040
Prime: FNC: 2.523 | CNN: 835 | MSNBC: 1.866

Thursday, June 10 Scoreboard: Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham Finish No. 1 and No. 2 Among Adults 25-54 | TVNewser (https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/thursday-june-10-scoreboard-tucker-carlson-laura-ingraham-finish-no-1-and-no-2-among-adults-25-54/480678/)

Or maybe you are referring to the overall decline in TV news viewership? They have all declined because no more Covid panic porn and election hysteria. The fact remains that as of this week, 4 out of the top 5 most viewed TV news programs are produced by FOX

Here are the declines as of June 2

In the 25-54 demo, Fox News was at 203,000, down 38%, followed by CNN with 147,000, off by 51%, and MSNBC with 108,000, down 39%.

Perhaps math is not your strong point.

[jimjamuser]

- Our early economy was not based on "free slave labor" Slave labor was used almost exclusively in the south for cash crops - primarily cotton and tobacco. In terms of the overall economy of the US, the south was miniscule compared to the industrialized northern states. In fact, the cause of the civil war was not primarily slavery, it was the fact that the south was being increasingly marginalized by the northern states, who favored high import and export tariffs, which kept agricultural prices low (fewer export markets) and the price of manufactured goods high (difficult to import from other industrialized countries). There is no question that slavery was and is abhorrent, but it is true that it existed for thousands of years in hundreds of cultures.


- Segregation was in fact true, and an unfortunate part of US history, but our current system provides abundant opportunities for people of color in education and employment. In fact, the most successful 'race' in the US currently is Asian, not white.

- The Tulsa race riots were a travesty, true, but they happened in 1921 for gods sake. Are you seriously implying that the country where that happened is the same country that elected a Black man president? Twice??

My biggest issue is that the current extreme left wing movement, including things like CRT, is to the push to equality of outcome, as oppose to equality of opportunity. That is not what made this county the envy of the world. And before you object to that phrase, tell me why our boarder is being over-run by people from central and south America? Why aren't they flocking to Venezuela? Mexico? Brazil? North Korea?
US economy "NOT based on slave labor"? I remember reading that from colonial days onward, cotton cheaply raised by slave labor, created GREAT early wealth that stayed with the US even till today.

[Joe V.]

US economy "NOT based on slave labor"? I remember reading that from colonial days onward, cotton cheaply raised by slave labor, created GREAT early wealth that stayed with the US even till today.

In colonial times Northeastern industrial production and the fishing industry operating in the Great Banks eclipsed southern cotton crops in wealth production. Cotton production was beneficial to the few southern states. Fact.

[Byte1]

1, I am married to a public school teacher who taught for 34 years

2. I have been a substitute teacher my self for a few years. But most of my time was spent working for the GOP. Yes...the GOP. Party left me when it became radical and un American.

3. Teacher Unions are active, and in fact exist because of tenure laws. That means, without tenure they can be fired at the whim of any politically elected person, no matter their reviews or performance.

4. Nobody teaches what you folks are railing against. It is not a subject, and if you took the time to read about it, you would find it is not something to fear as you are being told.

5. Read this as a start....What Is Critical Race Theory, and Why Is It Under Attack? (https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05)

6. New York Post May be the only place you will see what you posted. A another Murdoch (think Fox) entity....both of them under severe pressure to become more extreme as ratings have tumbled.

Just wanted to make sure you know that I know “how this works” before you challenge me again. You really have no clue.

Interesting. While you are on the subject, and if you don't mind, who long exactly has it been since you and/or your spouse taught public school? The reason I ask is that we are speaking of CRT being taught today, and it has been reported in several states as being taught today. I doubt sincerely that it is only FOX that is reporting this, because I do not (or rarely) watch FOX news. Not that I have anything against it, but I tend to read my news other than the local weather.
I have seen/read reports of children bringing home school work where they are studying CRT, even if it is not labeled CRT. Sorry, but I do not believe that someone has deliberately made up this "conspiracy."
I apologize if you misconstrue this as an accusation that you are wrong. I am just suggesting that since you do not teach now(or do you?) and do not teach in all the states in the U.S. of A. then you cannot definitely state that CRT is NOT being taught.

I applaud your loyalty to unions, even though I consider them wrong for America now. I do believe they had their place years ago, before the gov imposed employment regulations protecting most employee rights. IMO unions are a tool of the socialists, and I am anti-socialist when it comes to our country. I am sure that some social programs have been beneficial for some folks, but private enterprise has always been superior and of more benefit for our country. I have not seen a business yet that the Feds can operate efficiently.

Thank you for your many years of servicing America's children. I have great admiration for most teachers and I do know the limits and regulations that the gov has put on teaching today. And it is too bad that unions tend to spend most of their effort protecting bad teachers.

[mikemalloy]

Colonial America was under British law. England felt that the main purpose of the colonies was to contribute to the wealth and power of his majesty's land. While slavery was not a part of life in England, it was a part of its colonies so that goods and agricultural products could be produced cheaply. England relied on its trade with the colonies for tobacco and other crops that were farmed on large tracts in the south. When the American Constitutional government was formed in the late 1700's slavery had been a part of the southern economic system for a century and a half. Slavery existed in colonial America because England tolerated it for financial reason. The 1619 "project" is a distorted view of history driven by anti-American radicals in my view.

[Byte1]

US economy "NOT based on slave labor"? I remember reading that from colonial days onward, cotton cheaply raised by slave labor, created GREAT early wealth that stayed with the US even till today.

Nope, only about 40 years, from about 1820-1860 and then share cropping replaced the cotton driven economy.

[SkBlogW]

To sum up CRT theory, they basically want to start history around 1600 and blame everything on white people. :a040: Anything that happened before then is forbidden from being discussed.

[Swoop]

What happened to the US. I think most Of us (at least 70%) are asking ourselves that question. I can think of about 10 factors. I can talk about one of them that relates directly to CRT, which I think is a clumsy and confusing name. (It has caused confusion here. It does seem foreign or socialist-type scary) I would call it.....teaching the TRUE history of the US......not WHITEwashing it (pun intended). A free society has zero reasons to try to duck the TRUTH. My high school never mentioned the Tulsa massacre or the Rosewood, Fl one. I was mature enough in 8th grade to take in those TRUTHS. I had Black friends that I played sports with that I could have had a reasonable conversation with on that subject. Race relations would be SO much better today if in 1965 President Johnson had EXTENDED Civil Rights laws to encourage Blacks and White to live in the SAME neighborhoods - by tax credits for builders of new developments or whatever would have made that happen. In the 60s my white neighborhood was physically far away from the Black neighborhood in the same town - that made RELATING to each other more difficult. In college and in the Air Farce, it was much easier to relate to other races - there was less physical SEPERATION!
I don’t know where you grew up and went to school, but we learned about slavery, the Underground Railroad, Rosa Parks, the lynchings and cross burning perpetrated by the KKK in grade school. I went to high school during the era of forced bussing to fully integrate schools. Looking back, my friends were a mix of white, black & Asian - but back then, they were just friends. It’s the people who want to classify others by their race, who are the real racists. The media and others who do their best to continually drive a wedge between people, truly disgust me…

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

-
- The Tulsa race riots...


That right there is why we need for the next generations, and the ones after that, and the ones after that, to be taught the truths.

The Tulsa Race Massacre was not "race riots." White men were deputized by the local constabulary. They looted buildings, destroyed houses, and murdered black people with the permission, blessing, encouragement, and authorization of the law.

The reason: the black people in the area were doing well. Prospering, profiting, becoming affluent.

[Bucco]

Interesting. While you are on the subject, and if you don't mind, who long exactly has it been since you and/or your spouse taught public school? The reason I ask is that we are speaking of CRT being taught today, and it has been reported in several states as being taught today. I doubt sincerely that it is only FOX that is reporting this, because I do not (or rarely) watch FOX news. Not that I have anything against it, but I tend to read my news other than the local weather.
I have seen/read reports of children bringing home school work where they are studying CRT, even if it is not labeled CRT. Sorry, but I do not believe that someone has deliberately made up this "conspiracy."
I apologize if you misconstrue this as an accusation that you are wrong. I am just suggesting that since you do not teach now(or do you?) and do not teach in all the states in the U.S. of A. then you cannot definitely state that CRT is NOT being taught.

I applaud your loyalty to unions, even though I consider them wrong for America now. I do believe they had their place years ago, before the gov imposed employment regulations protecting most employee rights. IMO unions are a tool of the socialists, and I am anti-socialist when it comes to our country. I am sure that some social programs have been beneficial for some folks, but private enterprise has always been superior and of more benefit for our country. I have not seen a business yet that the Feds can operate efficiently.

Thank you for your many years of servicing America's children. I have great admiration for most teachers and I do know the limits and regulations that the gov has put on teaching today. And it is too bad that unions tend to spend most of their effort protecting bad teachers.

CRT goes back about 40 years, AND IT IS NOT A SUBJECT THAT IS TAUGHT.....why you cannot understand it is probably because all you are hearing is "noise" and an agenda item not discussed until it was made a part of the plank to run on.

You would probably want to know, but won't based on your selection of reading and your lack of wanting to know, it is probably as critical of the left as anything.

This is not about unions, teachers or any such thing. I read somewhere it has been labeled..."laws being passed in search of a problem"

This is totally about a tact for getting elected.

[SkBlogW]

That right there is why we need for the next generations, and the ones after that, and the ones after that, to be taught the truths.

The Tulsa Race Massacre was not "race riots." White men were deputized by the local constabulary. They looted buildings, destroyed houses, and murdered black people with the permission, blessing, encouragement, and authorization of the law.

The reason: the black people in the area were doing well. Prospering, profiting, becoming affluent.

Gosh that sounds just like the BLM riots, including the fact that lots of black people were murdered by black people without a squeak from the media.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Gosh that sounds just like the BLM riots, including the fact that lots of black people were murdered by black people without a squeak from the media.

You need to practice your whataboutism better. You make no sense. Black people in the BLM riots were not deputized by the local law enforcement and ordered to murder, loot, and destroy property.

[SkBlogW]

You need to practice your whataboutism better. You make no sense. Black people in the BLM riots were not deputized by the local law enforcement and ordered to murder, loot, and destroy property.

Oh okay. So all the black people and police officers murdered in the BLM riots can rest assured that their murderers were not deputized or ordered by anyone.

I'm sure their families feel so much better now. And all those businesses, homes etc burnt to the ground, it's all good cuz nobody ordered the rioters to do so.

[Bucco]

You need to practice your whataboutism better. You make no sense. Black people in the BLM riots were not deputized by the local law enforcement and ordered to murder, loot, and destroy property.

This is simply another....yet another thread that goes on and on to bash an entire race because they are not the same color of skin. These people seem to want to vent their hatred, fear, lack of......and they are allowed to do it.

CRT was simply the door they wanted to open since the extreme folks want this to be an issue in 2022 thus they are burying their "subjects" with buzz words, misinformation, etc. to get it started.

Simply tell our young people the truth

[jimjamuser]

Fox ratings have tumbled? Why are you posting misinformation?

Hint: Bigger numbers means you have more viewers and higher ratings

Total Viewers (Live+SD x 1,000)

Total Day: FNC: 1.477 | CNN: 624 | MSNBC: 1.040
Prime: FNC: 2.523 | CNN: 835 | MSNBC: 1.866

Thursday, June 10 Scoreboard: Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham Finish No. 1 and No. 2 Among Adults 25-54 | TVNewser (https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/thursday-june-10-scoreboard-tucker-carlson-laura-ingraham-finish-no-1-and-no-2-among-adults-25-54/480678/)

Or maybe you are referring to the overall decline in TV news viewership? They have all declined because no more Covid panic porn and election hysteria. The fact remains that as of this week, 4 out of the top 5 most viewed TV news programs are produced by FOX

Here are the declines as of June 2

In the 25-54 demo, Fox News was at 203,000, down 38%, followed by CNN with 147,000, off by 51%, and MSNBC with 108,000, down 39%.

Perhaps math is not your strong point.
"Covid panic porn"........If you REALLY believe that, I feel sorry for you. A mind is a bad thing to get propagandized!

[jimjamuser]

Interesting. While you are on the subject, and if you don't mind, who long exactly has it been since you and/or your spouse taught public school? The reason I ask is that we are speaking of CRT being taught today, and it has been reported in several states as being taught today. I doubt sincerely that it is only FOX that is reporting this, because I do not (or rarely) watch FOX news. Not that I have anything against it, but I tend to read my news other than the local weather.
I have seen/read reports of children bringing home school work where they are studying CRT, even if it is not labeled CRT. Sorry, but I do not believe that someone has deliberately made up this "conspiracy."
I apologize if you misconstrue this as an accusation that you are wrong. I am just suggesting that since you do not teach now(or do you?) and do not teach in all the states in the U.S. of A. then you cannot definitely state that CRT is NOT being taught.

I applaud your loyalty to unions, even though I consider them wrong for America now. I do believe they had their place years ago, before the gov imposed employment regulations protecting most employee rights. IMO unions are a tool of the socialists, and I am anti-socialist when it comes to our country. I am sure that some social programs have been beneficial for some folks, but private enterprise has always been superior and of more benefit for our country. I have not seen a business yet that the Feds can operate efficiently.

Thank you for your many years of servicing America's children. I have great admiration for most teachers and I do know the limits and regulations that the gov has put on teaching today. And it is too bad that unions tend to spend most of their effort protecting bad teachers.
"Unions wrong for America now". Unions seem to work FINE in Germany and the world seems to want to buy BMWs and Mercedes Benz automobiles.

[jimjamuser]

Gosh that sounds just like the BLM riots, including the fact that lots of black people were murdered by black people without a squeak from the media.
A bad attempt at what-about-ism. Very different situations.

[bobdeb]

I support diversity in our schools. So, hire teachers with different points of view. All points of view.

(Wasn't sure how to word that one...)

Earlier a poster noted he used to support the GOP.

Well, I grew up as a Democrat. Eventually became an Independent. And now I'm a Republican. There's three points of view.

[jimjamuser]

This is simply another....yet another thread that goes on and on to bash an entire race because they are not the same color of skin. These people seem to want to vent their hatred, fear, lack of......and they are allowed to do it.

CRT was simply the door they wanted to open since the extreme folks want this to be an issue in 2022 thus they are burying their "subjects" with buzz words, misinformation, etc. to get it started.

Simply tell our young people the truth
An attempt to divert from the fact that the government is now back to being respected around the world and not laughed at as before. Things are sailing along TOO smoothly, so inject a little chaos and controversy into the news! Too many people are happy now that the US MAY have a future. They JUST have to squash that happiness by picking at the scabs of race relations. They have CUTE slogans like WOKE is BAD! The more devoid of meaning the better.

[Bucco]

"Covid panic porn"........If you REALLY believe that, I feel sorry for you. A mind is a bad thing to get propagandized!

I must take some heat for his comments on Fox. He is right about them coming back, and this is not something I actually keep up with, but first quarter or so of this year, they had the lowest ratings in 20 years.

Some folks I know in the industry pointed out to me that FoxNews was in a panic after the election. Their candidate threw them under the bus, and as ratings dived, they became even more extreme than in the past to bring more viewership. That is anecdotal information for sure, but it "fits"

[GrumpyOldMan]

An attempt to divert from the fact that the government is now back to being respected around the world and not laughed at as before. Things are sailing along TOO smoothly, so inject a little chaos and controversy into the news! Too many people are happy now that the US MAY have a future. They JUST have to squash that happiness by picking at the scabs of race relations. They have CUTE slogans like WOKE is BAD! The more devoid of meaning the better.

It is very important to keep the turmoil at a high level for another 18 months. If there is nothing to get ****ed off at, then make something up and repeat it until everyone is mad or afraid.

[Bucco]

An attempt to divert from the fact that the government is now back to being respected around the world and not laughed at as before. Things are sailing along TOO smoothly, so inject a little chaos and controversy into the news! Too many people are happy now that the US MAY have a future. They JUST have to squash that happiness by picking at the scabs of race relations. They have CUTE slogans like WOKE is BAD! The more devoid of meaning the better.

It is simply the mantra they will use in 2022. Remember "fear immigrants"

They seem to have a need to allow the loyal cult something to fear,.

This is it for 2022......as I said earlier, they are dashing around in "certain states, passing laws in search of a problem

[bobdeb]

An attempt to divert from the fact that the government is now back to being respected around the world and not laughed at as before. Things are sailing along TOO smoothly, so inject a little chaos and controversy into the news! Too many people are happy now that the US MAY have a future. They JUST have to squash that happiness by picking at the scabs of race relations. They have CUTE slogans like WOKE is BAD! The more devoid of meaning the better.


Oh please. Go back to your CNN propaganda.

[jimjamuser]

It is very important to keep the turmoil at a high level for another 18 months. If there is nothing to get ****ed off at, then make something up and repeat it until everyone is mad or afraid.
We can only HOPE that it settles down and America goes back to being America again. That the wedges start to heal themselves.

[jimjamuser]

It is simply the mantra they will use in 2022. Remember "fear immigrants"

They seem to have a need to allow the loyal cult something to fear,.

This is it for 2022......as I said earlier, they are dashing around in "certain states, passing laws in search of a problem
The Federal government or the COURTS need to stop those state anti-voting laws. It IS a step toward a Dictatorship.

[Aloha1]

The Federal government or the COURTS need to stop those state anti-voting laws. It IS a step toward a Dictatorship.

And just how many of these laws have you actually read, pray tell?

[Bucco]

And just how many of these laws have you actually read, pray tell?

As said....most are laws searching for a problem

[Aloha1]

As said....most are laws searching for a problem

That statement ignores my question. And this was not asked of you but rather jimmyjam.

[graciegirl]

Aloha. I want to state that I respect both women and men and their ideas. It is clear to me that some posters do not have a lot of respect for one or the other gender and their views.

I really do think we need to have laws that encourage real people to show up and show I.D. in order to vote in public elections. I think the chance of certain groups manipulating people and voting is very high. Some would go so far to pick them up at their homes and PAY them to vote. To me that destroys the very essence of fair elections.

I don't think that most people dislike new immigrants at all. I would say that I speak for the majority of people in the U.S. when I say that good people are welcome and those that want to sell people or drugs are not. All around us in Florida we have so many great examples of hard working, saving, diligent and honest immigrants who want to be a success in this great land. And then there are a few who are here to harm us and use us. We need SOME controls to keep the bad people out. I have a REAL problem as a mother understanding how anyone could allow their child to come here or anywhere far from home unattended by someone who will protect them. It goes against ALL instinct that women are born with and all the high oxytocin we keep once we become a mother.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Aloha. I want to state that I respect both women and men and their ideas. It is clear to me that some posters do not have a lot of respect for one or the other gender and their views.

I really do think we need to have laws that encourage real people to show up and show I.D. in order to vote in public elections. I think the chance of certain groups manipulating people and voting is very high. Some would go so far to pick them up at their homes and PAY them to vote. To me that destroys the very essence of fair elections.

I don't think that most people dislike new immigrants at all. I would say that I speak for the majority of people in the U.S. when I say that good people are welcome and those that want to sell people or drugs are not. All around us in Florida we have so many great examples of hard working, saving, diligent and honest immigrants who want to be a success in this great land. And then there are a few who are here to harm us and use us. We need SOME controls to keep the bad people out. I have a REAL problem as a mother understanding how anyone could allow their child to come here or anywhere far from home unattended by someone who will protect them. It goes against ALL instinct that women are born with and all the high oxytocin we keep once we become a mother.

I completely agree with your post.

My concern is that laws are being passed with no evidence that they actually solve a real problem. They appear to be based on the idea of "someone MIGHT" do something.

I believe that was the point of the post "laws being passed in search of a problem".

There have been literally hundreds of millions of dollars donated and spent in the last 6 months to prove massive election manipulation and fraud. And yet, so far there is no proof. LOTS of talking, but no proof.

So, my question is, is it more important to stop 100 illegal votes at the cost of denying potentially thousand of legal voters the right to vote?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Questions about the whole voting fraud and voting rights issues:

Does voting on a workday help or hinder some legal voting?

Does having limited voting places so people have to stand in line for hours help or hinder legal voting?

Does requiring yet another "legal" especially for voting help or hinder legal voting?

I am all for stopping illegal votes. But just how much of a problem is it really? And how many legal votes are prevented or inhibited by the measures being taken? How about a "voter impact" analysis be required for ANY law that established or changes rules for voting?

[Bucco]

Aloha. I want to state that I respect both women and men and their ideas. It is clear to me that some posters do not have a lot of respect for one or the other gender and their views.

I really do think we need to have laws that encourage real people to show up and show I.D. in order to vote in public elections. I think the chance of certain groups manipulating people and voting is very high. Some would go so far to pick them up at their homes and PAY them to vote. To me that destroys the very essence of fair elections.

I don't think that most people dislike new immigrants at all. I would say that I speak for the majority of people in the U.S. when I say that good people are welcome and those that want to sell people or drugs are not. All around us in Florida we have so many great examples of hard working, saving, diligent and honest immigrants who want to be a success in this great land. And then there are a few who are here to harm us and use us. We need SOME controls to keep the bad people out. I have a REAL problem as a mother understanding how anyone could allow their child to come here or anywhere far from home unattended by someone who will protect them. It goes against ALL instinct that women are born with and all the high oxytocin we keep once we become a mother.

"real people to show up and show I.D. in order to vote in public elections."

Is your idea to show that IN ADDITION to the identification required when you register to vote ?


Then that registration is sent to your home address.

But you suggest that we show ID twice, in addition to the registration being hand checked ??

"Some would go so far to pick them up at their homes and PAY them to vote."

Could you supply some sort of definition as to SOME"might be.....a terrible accusation to make in such and general unsupported way

[Byte1]

You need to practice your whataboutism better. You make no sense. Black people in the BLM riots were not deputized by the local law enforcement and ordered to murder, loot, and destroy property.

Nope, they were sanctioned by political leaders.

[Byte1]

"real people to show up and show I.D. in order to vote in public elections."

Is your idea to show that IN ADDITION to the identification required when you register to vote ?


Then that registration is sent to your home address.

But you suggest that we show ID twice, in addition to the registration being hand checked ??

"Some would go so far to pick them up at their homes and PAY them to vote."

Could you supply some sort of definition as to SOME"might be.....a terrible accusation to make in such and general unsupported way

What proof of citizenship did you give when you registered to vote?

FYI, the last state I voted at only asked for a verbal name and address when you voted. I could have voted for my father if I wished because they did not ask for any form of ID.

In Florida, they did not ask me for any proof when I registered but they did ask me for my ID when I voted. Although, ID other than a passport or birth certificate (or naturalization) is not proof of citizenship. And in Florida, if you wish to change your affiliation, you can do it on line without any proof.

[Bucco]

I completely agree with your post.

My concern is that laws are being passed with no evidence that they actually solve a real problem. They appear to be based on the idea of "someone MIGHT" do something.

I believe that was the point of the post "laws being passed in search of a problem".

There have been literally hundreds of millions of dollars donated and spent in the last 6 months to prove massive election manipulation and fraud. And yet, so far there is no proof. LOTS of talking, but no proof.

So, my question is, is it more important to stop 100 illegal votes at the cost of denying potentially thousand of legal voters the right to vote?

Thanks for understanding.......suddenly, we pass laws with no problems.

And all for no known reason...

" a broad coalition of top government and industry officials is declaring that the Nov. 3 voting and the following count unfolded smoothly with no more than the usual minor hiccups."

"......“the most secure in American history.”

Per "Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency "

Repudiating Trump, officials say election '''most secure''' (https://apnews.com/article/top-officials-elections-most-secure-66f9361084ccbc461e3bbf42861057a5)

"Federal election infrastructure officials said in a joint statement on Thursday that the 2020 election was the "most secure in American history."

2020 election "most secure in history," security officials say (https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/2020-election-most-secure-history-dhs/)

[Bucco]

What proof of citizenship did you give when you registered to vote?

FYI, the last state I voted at only asked for a verbal name and address when you voted. I could have voted for my father if I wished because they did not ask for any form of ID.

In Florida, they did not ask me for any proof when I registered but they did ask me for my ID when I voted. Although, ID other than a passport or birth certificate (or naturalization) is not proof of citizenship. And in Florida, if you wish to change your affiliation, you can do it on line without any proof.

Photo ID.

My objection is to the claim and posts that say you can vote with no ID, skipping the hard part....registerinG

I am trying to recall when i changed my party affiliation I think I also needed the PHOTO identification and maybe one other form......I may be getting that mixed with the various forms of identification used at DMV.

I might add I found voting by mail in 2020 a bit more difficult than going to the polls.....Although since all elections are run by the state, at my age, they all run together

[Bucco]

Nope, they were sanctioned by political leaders.

WHOA...Those arrested in connection with January 6 would hope that you are correct.

[Byte1]

The Federal government or the COURTS need to stop those state anti-voting laws. It IS a step toward a Dictatorship.

I do not consider a requirement of an ID as "anti-voting laws" If you are referring to GA's laws changing the times, you should read what they actually specify, rather the erroneous statements from political pundits. No one has made any laws limiting or preventing legal voters from voting. If anything, it has become too easy to vote.

[Bucco]

I do not consider a requirement of an ID as "anti-voting laws" If you are referring to GA's laws changing the times, you should read what they actually specify, rather the erroneous statements from political pundits. No one has made any laws limiting or preventing legal voters from voting. If anything, it has become too easy to vote.


It seems the group against more government influence and party power is changing a bit......now, for example, in Georgia "The Republican-controlled legislature has more control over the State Election Board."

This is a great recap......

"https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/georgia-voting-law-annotated.html

IN addition and getting back to the topic of the thread....same folks who want LESS government involvement now want to strike things from history.....elected officials, now.

Tell our kids the truth every case

[Bucco]

I do not consider a requirement of an ID as "anti-voting laws" If you are referring to GA's laws changing the times, you should read what they actually specify, rather the erroneous statements from political pundits. No one has made any laws limiting or preventing legal voters from voting. If anything, it has become too easy to vote.

Listening to political "pundits" is never a good idea. My reason for checking everyones post for who they are plagiarizing, stealing from, trying to hide source, etc.

Social media is a bad thing for any serious discussion of any subject

[Byte1]

Is that how your children were educated ? Is that how you want your grandchildren educated ?

NO FACTS allowed unless elected officials decide it is ok to teach.

Right

What are talking about? Facts? Elected officials? Maybe you meant to respond to someone else?

[Byte1]

Listening to political "pundits" is never a good idea. My reason for checking everyones post for who they are plagiarizing, stealing from, trying to hide source, etc.

Social media is a bad thing for any serious discussion of any subject

And yet............

[Byte1]

It seems the group against more government influence and party power is changing a bit......now, for example, in Georgia "The Republican-controlled legislature has more control over the State Election Board."

This is a great recap......

"https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/georgia-voting-law-annotated.html

IN addition and getting back to the topic of the thread....same folks who want LESS government involvement now want to strike things from history.....elected officials, now.

Tell our kids the truth every case

First off, the NYtimes?? Really???
Please give me specifics of those folks that "want to strike things from history" other than those that wish to wipe names off of building, streets, and remove statues. The also want "less government?"

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Photo ID.

My objection is to the claim and posts that say you can vote with no ID, skipping the hard part....registerinG

I am trying to recall when i changed my party affiliation I think I also needed the PHOTO identification and maybe one other form......I may be getting that mixed with the various forms of identification used at DMV.

I might add I found voting by mail in 2020 a bit more difficult than going to the polls.....Although since all elections are run by the state, at my age, they all run together

You're definitely mixing up things. I registered to vote via mail. I changed my affiliation from unaffiliated to democrat just so I could vote in the democratic primary, and I did that online. I switched back to unaffiliated after the primary, again, online.

When I voted in person in the primaries, I was not required to show any ID at all, just my name and address, and they let me vote. When I voted early at the presidential election, I had to do it at the Lady Lake public library, and they checked my drivers' license to make sure I was who I said I was.

As long as you can prove that you are really you, that's all that SHOULD be required for the actual vote. If they need citizenship proof, then that should be part of the registration process.

Once you're registered, you shouldn't ever need to prove that you are a citizen of the USA. The fact that you ARE registered is proof enough.

[Bucco]

What are talking about? Facts? Elected officials? Maybe you meant to respond to someone else?

Just trying to get the thread back to the subject.

[Bucco]

First off, the NYtimes?? Really???
Please give me specifics of those folks that "want to strike things from history" other than those that wish to wipe names off of building, streets, and remove statues. The also want "less government?"

The example is anti CRT launch AND the subject of the thread

[Bucco]

You're definitely mixing up things. I registered to vote via mail. I changed my affiliation from unaffiliated to democrat just so I could vote in the democratic primary, and I did that online. I switched back to unaffiliated after the primary, again, online.

When I voted in person in the primaries, I was not required to show any ID at all, just my name and address, and they let me vote. When I voted early at the presidential election, I had to do it at the Lady Lake public library, and they checked my drivers' license to make sure I was who I said I was.

As long as you can prove that you are really you, that's all that SHOULD be required for the actual vote. If they need citizenship proof, then that should be part of the registration process.

Once you're registered, you shouldn't ever need to prove that you are a citizen of the USA. The fact that you ARE registered is proof enough.

There you go....no interest in "mixing things up". I vote each year. I registered to vote in Pennsylvania way back. I came here in 1998, and was required to show photo ID to register to vote.. I said I "think" I had to show photo I'd when I changed my affliction, but actually not sure.

Thus not completely understand how I mixed things up.

The point was that those who keep insisting people are voting without ID are wrong.

Sorry I mixed you up...continue and the dumb guy will shut up. I really thought we were discussing election law, run by individual states, and the Georgia law. I was simply inserting the thought that I am tired of hearing about people voting with no I'd. No state I am aware of allows that, but it is bandied about as a truism. No intention to cause disruption.

[Aloha1]

I completely agree with your post.

My concern is that laws are being passed with no evidence that they actually solve a real problem. They appear to be based on the idea of "someone MIGHT" do something.

I believe that was the point of the post "laws being passed in search of a problem".

There have been literally hundreds of millions of dollars donated and spent in the last 6 months to prove massive election manipulation and fraud. And yet, so far there is no proof. LOTS of talking, but no proof.

So, my question is, is it more important to stop 100 illegal votes at the cost of denying potentially thousand of legal voters the right to vote?

The basic flaw in your argument is "deny thousands of legal voters". Please provide evidence and proof that these laws would do that.

[Bucco]

The basic flaw in your argument is "deny thousands of legal voters". Please provide evidence and proof that these laws would do that.

The law will suppress the vote. How much...who knows. Every verse of the law has the thrust of making it harder to vote, thus suppressing vote.

Remember the days when the same folks were pushing and running ads to please vote ?

[Aloha1]

And that reason is that the US is in an era of "crazy times chaos" from which it may or may NOT recover!

We are at a cusp in history, of that there is no doubt. Whether we are able to recapture our Great Experiment as a Constitutional Republic hangs in the balance. Right now the forces of totalitarianism and anarchy are trying to consolidate their power and "transform" our Nation into a Socialist, one party dictatorship. Indoctrination of our school age children is one way to ensure compliance and obedience with the youngest , etc. The threat is real and I am not willing to surrender .Never say, "It can't happen here".

[GrumpyOldMan]

The basic flaw in your argument is "deny thousands of legal voters". Please provide evidence and proof that these laws would do that.

I would absolutely provide evidence of thousand of voters denied the opportunity to vote as soon as you provide evidence of massive voter fraud - enough to change the outcome of ANY presidential election.

My point was anything that makes it harder for legal voters to vote is bad, and anything that makes it easier for legal voters to vote is good.

I will be around if you can show the need for the laws to protect our votes.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Right now the forces of totalitarianism and anarchy are trying to consolidate their power and "transform" our Nation into a Socialist, one party dictatorship. ".

Can you show any evidence of your claim? I understand Hundreds of millions of dollars have been donated to help prove election fraud, which appears to be at the heart of your argument. Please provide ANY evidence that $100M and 6 months have proven?

[Aloha1]

Please.......that is answered on TV news shows almost EVERY NIGHT for the last 4 years. The "old school", normal TV channels.

The "old school, in the tank with one certain party, media". That's your news source??

[Aloha1]

One problem with your question -- critical race theory it's not being taught in schools. It's being hyped by some media and politicians just like Sharia Law was hyped in recent years as though it's a real problem...just to scare people. Let's not fall victim to yet another bunch of hokum.

So all those parents, lite skinned and dark skinned, you read about in the papers or see on TV protesting at school board meetings are simply figments of the imagination? And the teachers who have been fired or chose to resign rather than teach lies are also non-existent ?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So all those parents, lite skinned and dark skinned, you read about in the papers or see on TV protesting at school board meetings are simply figments of the imagination? And the teachers who have been fired or chose to resign rather than teach lies are also non-existent ?

Those people protesting, are protesting something they don't understand. Critical Race Theory is not an actual class, or lesson. It's not a thing being taught. There've been several posts on this thread explaining that, some with links to websites that explain it really really well, in layman's terms.

[manaboutown]

The Federal government or the COURTS need to stop those state anti-voting laws. It IS a step toward a Dictatorship.

The laws are to eliminate voter fraud which is rampant.

[Aloha1]

Aloha. I want to state that I respect both women and men and their ideas. It is clear to me that some posters do not have a lot of respect for one or the other gender and their views.

I really do think we need to have laws that encourage real people to show up and show I.D. in order to vote in public elections. I think the chance of certain groups manipulating people and voting is very high. Some would go so far to pick them up at their homes and PAY them to vote. To me that destroys the very essence of fair elections.

I don't think that most people dislike new immigrants at all. I would say that I speak for the majority of people in the U.S. when I say that good people are welcome and those that want to sell people or drugs are not. All around us in Florida we have so many great examples of hard working, saving, diligent and honest immigrants who want to be a success in this great land. And then there are a few who are here to harm us and use us. We need SOME controls to keep the bad people out. I have a REAL problem as a mother understanding how anyone could allow their child to come here or anywhere far from home unattended by someone who will protect them. It goes against ALL instinct that women are born with and all the high oxytocin we keep once we become a mother.

Gracie;
You are one of the voices of reason on TOTV and I always respect your opinion. You are absolutely correct. I fail to comprehend how ANY American would not support elections ONLY for Citizens. That is our law as outlined in our Constitution.

Some here ask, "Where is the problem?" My answer is, the problem may or may not be currently present but if we fail to protect against any voting procedures that might make fraud easier, then we all but ensure that legitimate citizen votes will be marginalized.

I welcome all who want to come to this country LEGALLY and contribute to the tapestry that is the American people. I have no truck with those who encourage anyone to circumvent our immigration laws, including those at the highest levels of government.

We are either a Nation of Laws or we are not a Nation at all.

[Aloha1]

The law will suppress the vote. How much...who knows. Every verse of the law has the thrust of making it harder to vote, thus suppressing vote.

Remember the days when the same folks were pushing and running ads to please vote ?
Again, proof??

[Aloha1]

I would absolutely provide evidence of thousand of voters denied the opportunity to vote as soon as you provide evidence of massive voter fraud - enough to change the outcome of ANY presidential election.

My point was anything that makes it harder for legal voters to vote is bad, and anything that makes it easier for legal voters to vote is good.

I will be around if you can show the need for the laws to protect our votes.

I never said anything about "massive voter fraud". And again, please provide specific and concrete proof that these laws would make it harder to vote legally. As I have stated, any law that makes it harder to commit fraud while ensuring that only Citizen votes are counted and only counted once, is a good thing.

[Aloha1]

Can you show any evidence of your claim? I understand Hundreds of millions of dollars have been donated to help prove election fraud, which appears to be at the heart of your argument. Please provide ANY evidence that $100M and 6 months have proven?

It is not my job to do your research for you. And again, I NEVER said anything about "proving election fraud". You seem fixated on that topic for some reason.

[Aloha1]

those people protesting, are protesting something they don't understand. Critical race theory is not an actual class, or lesson. It's not a thing being taught. There've been several posts on this thread explaining that, some with links to websites that explain it really really well, in layman's terms.
o-m-g

[Bucco]

Gracie;
You are one of the voices of reason on TOTV and I always respect your opinion. You are absolutely correct. I fail to comprehend how ANY American would not support elections ONLY for Citizens. That is our law as outlined in our Constitution.

Some here ask, "Where is the problem?" My answer is, the problem may or may not be currently present but if we fail to protect against any voting procedures that might make fraud easier, then we all but ensure that legitimate citizen votes will be marginalized.

I welcome all who want to come to this country LEGALLY and contribute to the tapestry that is the American people. I have no truck with those who encourage anyone to circumvent our immigration laws, including those at the highest levels of government.

We are either a Nation of Laws or we are not a Nation at all.

Please share with all of us with "no reason" who exactly supports voting for non Americans ?

Then, subsequently, allow and share any incidents of such things happening ?

Thank you.

As PS....illegal immigrants voting was the charge made in 2016. Including the commission formed to investigate, there has not been one single case of such voting ever shown. Commission was disbanded

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Voter fraud isn't rampant. There was no widespread voter fraud, AT ALL. Nationwide. It didn't happen. Various political entities that lost elections demanded recounts. Recounts were performed. Various political entities even got to hand-pick the people doing the recounts, even though those hand-picked people are in groups that had ZERO experience in performing voter recounts. And they came up with nothing. These people who are making up fraudulent votes where none have occurred, are the same people who are making up the ridiculous claim that teachers are teaching students to hate white people.

It's fiction. It's not happening. It's make-believe, being created by people who want to divide this country and destroy it, and spread by the people who are either not bright enough or not interested enough in actual facts, to see beyond the fairytale.

[Bucco]

o-m-g

She is correct. Been around for 40 years. Suddenly, a party decided that it would make a great theme to attack and scare. They added the word "Marxist" to scare a bit more, and away webgo.

There are no teachers of CRT, no textbook of CRT and fear of the word is nothing but showing ignorance.

AND you make the opposition stronger with crazy, insane accusations and conspiracies.

[jimjamuser]

And just how many of these laws have you actually read, pray tell?
It's all in the news recently and will continue. All the states with a certain party in control are PUSHING voter suppression laws because they feel that they need an edge. They are going to try to pass phony laws like in Arizona, Utah. and Georgia. They have NO SHAME OR PATRIOTISM. These laws are also RACIST because they are designed to limit Black and Brown votes. Any NEWS story on TV or in a newspaper will have details on how the wording of the laws is suppressive in nature.

[Bucco]

The laws are to eliminate voter fraud which is rampant.

As the courts in over 60 cases have said in the last 8 months...show us.

As the commission installed in 2016 said.....it doesn't exist.

As our own government has said...2020 was the safest most secure election in history.

[Joe V.]

As the courts in over 60 cases have said in the last 8 months...show us.

As the commission installed in 2016 said.....it doesn't exist.

As our own government has said...2020 was the safest most secure election in history.

What a comedian you are!

[Bucco]

The shame of beating this election stuff to death is that all you need to do is look at the results.

Losing party did pretty well in congressional and senate elections. Fairly well in state elections.

Where it was lost was at the top of the ticket. So much either split votes or skipping to vote at the top.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/12/14/1-7-million-people-in-33-states-and-dc-cast-a-ballot-without-voting-in-the-presidential-race/

And as for Georgia being discussed....

"77,000 Georgia Voters Skipped The Top Of The Ticket"

77,000 Georgia Voters Skipped The Top Of The Ticket | Georgia Public Broadcasting (https://www.gpb.org/news/2016/11/14/77000-georgia-voters-skipped-the-top-of-the-ticket)

Why do you think so many voted GOP except at the top

[jimjamuser]

Aloha. I want to state that I respect both women and men and their ideas. It is clear to me that some posters do not have a lot of respect for one or the other gender and their views.

I really do think we need to have laws that encourage real people to show up and show I.D. in order to vote in public elections. I think the chance of certain groups manipulating people and voting is very high. Some would go so far to pick them up at their homes and PAY them to vote. To me that destroys the very essence of fair elections.

I don't think that most people dislike new immigrants at all. I would say that I speak for the majority of people in the U.S. when I say that good people are welcome and those that want to sell people or drugs are not. All around us in Florida we have so many great examples of hard working, saving, diligent and honest immigrants who want to be a success in this great land. And then there are a few who are here to harm us and use us. We need SOME controls to keep the bad people out. I have a REAL problem as a mother understanding how anyone could allow their child to come here or anywhere far from home unattended by someone who will protect them. It goes against ALL instinct that women are born with and all the high oxytocin we keep once we become a mother.
I dislike the IDEA of new immigrants. It's NOT a dislike of any ethnic group. It is strictly a numbers thing - a population thing. Everyone wants more and better roads. But few think of roads per population as I do. Or more broadly, ALL US resources per person. Maybe our current roads, for example, are good enough for 275 MILLION people, NOT 350 MILLION people? Has anyone ever calculated an OPTIMUM population in the US considering the US total resources. I have NEVER heard of that! In biology, ALL SPECIES have a certain HOLDING capacity considering their environment. Man is NOT exempt from THAT natural law. WE can see from Global Warming that MAN is past its holding capacity on earth. THAT has created a ZILLION problems and IS the base cause. Ask yourself, "why are people migrating northward into the US and Europe?"

[GrumpyOldMan]

The laws are to eliminate voter fraud which is rampant.

Please provide ANY proof of this!

Over $100M and six months and no proof has been presented anywhere, lots of "people are saying" - but 62 court cases and a long drawn out fraud audit have provided NO evidence.

So, please enlighten me, just a little proof and not Joe's brother heard someone say something.

[Bucco]

What a comedian you are!

2020 election "most secure in history," security officials say (https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/2020-election-most-secure-history-dhs/)

Trump’s own officials say 2020 was America’s most secure election in history - Vox (https://www.vox.com/2020/11/13/21563825/2020-elections-most-secure-dhs-cisa-krebs)

"The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history. Right now, across the country, election officials are reviewing and double checking the entire election process prior to finalizing the result. "


Joint Statement from Elections Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council & the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Executive Committees | CISA (https://www.cisa.gov/news/2020/11/12/joint-statement-elections-infrastructure-government-coordinating-council-election)

It’s Official: The Election Was Secure | Brennan Center for Justice (https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/its-official-election-was-secure)

[GrumpyOldMan]

I dislike the IDEA of new immigrants. It's NOT a dislike of any ethnic group. It is strictly a numbers thing - a population thing. Everyone wants more and better roads. But few think of roads per population as I do. Or more broadly, ALL US resources per person. Maybe our current roads, for example, are good enough for 275 MILLION people, NOT 350 MILLION people? Has anyone ever calculated an OPTIMUM population in the US considering the US total resources. I have NEVER heard of that! In biology, ALL SPECIES have a certain HOLDING capacity considering their environment. Man is NOT exempt from THAT natural law. WE can see from Global Warming that MAN is past its holding capacity on earth. THAT has created a ZILLION problems and IS the base cause. Ask yourself, "why are people migrating northward into the US and Europe?"

I completely agree the earth is overpopulated. We currently consume more resources than the earth can replenish every year, and we reach that point around June of every year.

China has 2 billion people and approximately the same landmass as the US. China is the second-largest economy in the world - most are predicting it soon to be the largest.

China has 1.4B citizens, the US has 300M citizens.

300M more immigrants would bring more consumers, more workers more taxpayers, more of everything.

Economic immigration to Australia has produced net economic benefits in terms of helping to offset population aging, contributing to higher levels of GDP growth per capita, and improving labor productivity. The same is true in almost every country with large numbers of migrants.

[jimjamuser]

Here is one folk .......Gossard from Texas!

[manaboutown]

Please provide ANY proof of this!

Over $100M and six months and no proof has been presented anywhere, lots of "people are saying" - but 62 court cases and a long drawn out fraud audit have provided NO evidence.

So, please enlighten me, just a little proof and not Joe's brother heard someone say something.

1,328
Proven instances of voter fraud
1,143
Criminal convictions
48
Civil penalties
99
Diversion program
21
Judicial finding
17
Official finding
Search the Database


Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation (https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud)

[jimjamuser]

The basic flaw in your argument is "deny thousands of legal voters". Please provide evidence and proof that these laws would do that.
Since it is about FUTURE elections, it would be impossible at this time to prove one way or the other. There will be many court cases that can PROVE the likelihood of voter suppression.

[GrumpyOldMan]

2020 election "most secure in history," security officials say (https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/2020-election-most-secure-history-dhs/)

Trump’s own officials say 2020 was America’s most secure election in history - Vox (https://www.vox.com/2020/11/13/21563825/2020-elections-most-secure-dhs-cisa-krebs)

"The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history. Right now, across the country, election officials are reviewing and double checking the entire election process prior to finalizing the result. "


Joint Statement from Elections Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council & the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Executive Committees | CISA (https://www.cisa.gov/news/2020/11/12/joint-statement-elections-infrastructure-government-coordinating-council-election)

It’s Official: The Election Was Secure | Brennan Center for Justice (https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/its-official-election-was-secure)

Let's not forget that 100's of millions of dollars were donated to fund investigations into the election fraud 6 months ago - and after six months and a massive audit in Texas, NOTHING. NADA. Zip. No evidence, and yet people keep repeating over and over - "election fraud"... these same people often come on here and talk about believing in science and facts. And yet, nothing, nada, zip. No evidence to support the claim. But, the people in politics around the country keep promoting this claim without PROOF. And TV celebrities - some having a viewership of over 1% of the American population continues to promote these claims - with ZERO, ZIP NADA - no evidence.

That is pretty sad.

[manaboutown]

Anybody remember this one?

1948 United States Senate election in Texas - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_United_States_Senate_election_in_Texas)

Box 13 scandal - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_13_scandal)

[GrumpyOldMan]

1,328
Proven instances of voter fraud
1,143
Criminal convictions
48
Civil penalties
99
Diversion program
21
Judicial finding
17
Official finding
Search the Database


Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation (https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud)

Seriously, even without researching those numbers, you have now "proven" 1500 cases out of 150 million votes. And that is what all the voter fraud is about? You have shown nothing to prove our democracy is at risk.

That is what you have for $100M dollars and 6 months of investigations? I would say you have proven without a doubt that the election was the most secure election in the history of the world.. 0.0001% fraud.

[jimjamuser]

We are at a cusp in history, of that there is no doubt. Whether we are able to recapture our Great Experiment as a Constitutional Republic hangs in the balance. Right now the forces of totalitarianism and anarchy are trying to consolidate their power and "transform" our Nation into a Socialist, one party dictatorship. Indoctrination of our school age children is one way to ensure compliance and obedience with the youngest , etc. The threat is real and I am not willing to surrender .Never say, "It can't happen here".
You ARE right about a "threat" and Democracy "hanging in the balance". But, I think you are MISJUDGING the direction from which that "threat" IS coming. Hint............cult!

[jimjamuser]

I would absolutely provide evidence of thousand of voters denied the opportunity to vote as soon as you provide evidence of massive voter fraud - enough to change the outcome of ANY presidential election.

My point was anything that makes it harder for legal voters to vote is bad, and anything that makes it easier for legal voters to vote is good.

I will be around if you can show the need for the laws to protect our votes.
I agree. Good post!

[jimjamuser]

The laws are to eliminate voter fraud which is rampant.
Not "RAMPANT" as proven by the Judge's decisions on about 40 state voter fraud cases. The last election is considered the best ever!

[Lindsyburnsy]

Excellent explanation! Thank you.

From what I've read, critical race theory is really two ideas.

The first is that the very idea of race is not based on biology or science of any kind. There's nothing about the physiology of humans that neatly divides humanity into categories like "white", "black", "Asian", etc. The attempts to divide people into these categories were done societally, not scientifically.

The second idea is that American history shows us that governments put in place in the Americas by European settlers were and continue to be racist in nature. To steal land away from the indigenous people, governments put into place laws that made those peoples have fewer or any rights and encouraged the suppression of those peoples. Prior to the industrial revolution, manual labor was vital and slave labor was cheaper than paid labor, so laws were put into place to allow kidnapping, torturing and enslaving peoples from other countries, especially Africa. Laws were put into place over time to exclude Asians. During World War II, people of Japanese heritage were robbed of their properties and imprisoned while people of German heritage were not. Even after the emancipation of enslaved people in America, voting rights were suppressed and continue to be so to this day.

Critical race theory doesn't paint an artificially pretty picture of American history or governance. If you read history deeply, however, it is probably a more accurate picture. Does this divide people? Possibly. Some people are averse to learning unpleasant truths. I've always thought that true patriotism wasn't blindly loving ones country, right or wrong but rather wanting the best for and out of ones country, realizing when ones country was wrong or doing wrong and changing it for the better even if that involves discomfort and hard work.

America isn't perfect and never was. It gets better over time, despite occasional backsliding. I hope it continues to get better and better in the future. Pretending we are and have been perfect won't help us get there.

But that's just my opinion.

[jimjamuser]

I completely agree the earth is overpopulated. We currently consume more resources than the earth can replenish every year, and we reach that point around June of every year.

China has 2 billion people and approximately the same landmass as the US. China is the second-largest economy in the world - most are predicting it soon to be the largest.

China has 1.4B citizens, the US has 300M citizens.

300M more immigrants would bring more consumers, more workers more taxpayers, more of everything.

Economic immigration to Australia has produced net economic benefits in terms of helping to offset population aging, contributing to higher levels of GDP growth per capita, and improving labor productivity. The same is true in almost every country with large numbers of migrants.
WE agree that world population IS too HIGH. I agree that Australia increased its GNP with MORE immigrants. GNP is NOT some GOD. It is, in fact, a very DUMB yardstick to measure HUMAN society with. I would suggest that QUALITY of LIFE would be MUCH better! A simple example........the US has had GNP increase recently, yet CV has messed around with many people's Quality of Life. Another example.......for the last 10 or many more years GNP has increased - yet people are having fewer children partly because they say "the next generation will be less "well off" than our current one. Less "well off" equates to Quality of Life, not GNP. GNP is like a FALSE GOD cooked up by Wall Street and ad agencies as a SUBSTITUTE for HUMAN HAPPINESS! Just be aware of that.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I dislike the IDEA of new immigrants. It's NOT a dislike of any ethnic group. It is strictly a numbers thing - a population thing. Everyone wants more and better roads. But few think of roads per population as I do. Or more broadly, ALL US resources per person. Maybe our current roads, for example, are good enough for 275 MILLION people, NOT 350 MILLION people? Has anyone ever calculated an OPTIMUM population in the US considering the US total resources. I have NEVER heard of that! In biology, ALL SPECIES have a certain HOLDING capacity considering their environment. Man is NOT exempt from THAT natural law. WE can see from Global Warming that MAN is past its holding capacity on earth. THAT has created a ZILLION problems and IS the base cause. Ask yourself, "why are people migrating northward into the US and Europe?"

Because the USA is a better place to live, has better opportunities, has better healthcare, has better chance to survive through fascism (since that's what they are living with in their home countries right now)?

If you want people to stop trying to come here, then you need to make this an unattractive destination point. And at that point, why would YOU want to live here?

Also you could say the same thing about Florida. Imagine all the people who were born and raised in Florida, saying the exact same thing about the "immigrants" from other parts of this country? Imagine - all the people who were born and raised in Sumter County, saying the exact same thing about the Villages and all of us who have MIGRATED to Florida in our retirement.

Be grateful they didn't build a wall to keep you out.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Also if you want to understand this whole topic better, this guy from northern Florida explains it really well.

Log into Facebook | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3327391307487193)

[GrumpyOldMan]

WE agree that world population IS too HIGH. I agree that Australia increased its GNP with MORE immigrants. GNP is NOT some GOD. It is, in fact, a very DUMB yardstick to measure HUMAN society with. I would suggest that QUALITY of LIFE would be MUCH better! A simple example........the US has had GNP increase recently, yet CV has messed around with many people's Quality of Life. Another example.......for the last 10 or many more years GNP has increased - yet people are having fewer children partly because they say "the next generation will be less "well off" than our current one. Less "well off" equates to Quality of Life, not GNP. GNP is like a FALSE GOD cooked up by Wall Street and ad agencies as a SUBSTITUTE for HUMAN HAPPINESS! Just be aware of that.

Okay, here is a comparison of quality of life in the US vs Australia.

United States compared to Australia (https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/compare/united-states/australia)

(Hint: The US doesn't do well)

[Bucco]

Excellent explanation! Thank you.
----------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLBell View Post
From what I've read, critical race theory is really two ideas.

The first is that the very idea of race is not based on biology or science of any kind. There's nothing about the physiology of humans that neatly divides humanity into categories like "white", "black", "Asian", etc. The attempts to divide people into these categories were done societally, not scientifically.

The second idea is that American history shows us that governments put in place in the Americas by European settlers were and continue to be racist in nature. To steal land away from the indigenous people, governments put into place laws that made those peoples have fewer or any rights and encouraged the suppression of those peoples. Prior to the industrial revolution, manual labor was vital and slave labor was cheaper than paid labor, so laws were put into place to allow kidnapping, torturing and enslaving peoples from other countries, especially Africa. Laws were put into place over time to exclude Asians. During World War II, people of Japanese heritage were robbed of their properties and imprisoned while people of German heritage were not. Even after the emancipation of enslaved people in America, voting rights were suppressed and continue to be so to this day.

Critical race theory doesn't paint an artificially pretty picture of American history or governance. If you read history deeply, however, it is probably a more accurate picture. Does this divide people? Possibly. Some people are averse to learning unpleasant truths. I've always thought that true patriotism wasn't blindly loving ones country, right or wrong but rather wanting the best for and out of ones country, realizing when ones country was wrong or doing wrong and changing it for the better even if that involves discomfort and hard work.

America isn't perfect and never was. It gets better over time, despite occasional backsliding. I hope it continues to get better and better in the future. Pretending we are and have been perfect won't help us get there.
---------------------------------------

It is a great explanation and well said..

It will not deter those who are harming our country in so many ways. I say that with great pain because I belonged to that "team" for so many years.

For a group selling such fear....who continually harps on big government, they want to have elected officials decide what history should be taught. That is flat out scary. But, it shows fear of people with a different color skin is greater than the destruction of our democracy.

[jimjamuser]

Because the USA is a better place to live, has better opportunities, has better healthcare, has better chance to survive through fascism (since that's what they are living with in their home countries right now)?

If you want people to stop trying to come here, then you need to make this an unattractive destination point. And at that point, why would YOU want to live here?

Also you could say the same thing about Florida. Imagine all the people who were born and raised in Florida, saying the exact same thing about the "immigrants" from other parts of this country? Imagine - all the people who were born and raised in Sumter County, saying the exact same thing about the Villages and all of us who have MIGRATED to Florida in our retirement.

Be grateful they didn't build a wall to keep you out.
Good, I thought my hypothesis would touch a nerve. Immigration was good up till about 1980 when it became excessive in MY opinion. And you did NOT Address my comment about either quality of life or an OPTIMUM population. Suppose you have 2 dogs in your house. Life is good. Then you get to 5 dogs, and you husband feels that he is spending too much time feeding and going to the Vet. for them. Then, you get to 10 dogs and the neighbors start complaining and you have to defend against a lawsuit and your neighbors no longer talk to you. Life has less quality of life. Then you get 20 dogs and rocks are thrown through your windows. Then you are away and the house is burned down. Now, life is terrible for YOU. I know you see my point. It just sounds anti-progressive. I get that!

[Bucco]

I dislike the IDEA of new immigrants. It's NOT a dislike of any ethnic group. It is strictly a numbers thing - a population thing. Everyone wants more and better roads. But few think of roads per population as I do. Or more broadly, ALL US resources per person. Maybe our current roads, for example, are good enough for 275 MILLION people, NOT 350 MILLION people? Has anyone ever calculated an OPTIMUM population in the US considering the US total resources. I have NEVER heard of that! In biology, ALL SPECIES have a certain HOLDING capacity considering their environment. Man is NOT exempt from THAT natural law. WE can see from Global Warming that MAN is past its holding capacity on earth. THAT has created a ZILLION problems and IS the base cause. Ask yourself, "why are people migrating northward into the US and Europe?"

We should be embracing immigration. Our future looks quite grim without it. This is why the inane conversation about infrastructure simply points out the lack of forward thinking in Washington.

We simply do not have enough "workers" to grow, without the infrastructure.


I offer this, but there are many good, well thought out, dissertations on this subject.

This was published about 5 months ago.

What the 2020 census will reveal about America: Stagnating growth, an aging population, and youthful diversity (https://www.brookings.edu/research/what-the-2020-census-will-reveal-about-america-stagnating-growth-an-aging-population-and-youthful-diversity/)

Better than talking about immigrants, AND blacks as a group to fear, we should look forward and embrace new ideas and thoughts.

[jimjamuser]

Also if you want to understand this whole topic better, this guy from northern Florida explains it really well.

Log into Facebook | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3327391307487193)
Sorry, I am NOT on Facebook to protest Mark Zuckerdorkhead elitist scumbag (that the government should break up)!

[jimjamuser]

Okay, here is a comparison of quality of life in the US vs Australia.

United States compared to Australia (https://www.mylifeelsewhere.com/compare/united-states/australia)

(Hint: The US doesn't do well)
Yes thanks - that helps prove my point about GNP. And I bet Australia has less population density than the US. And a better mental health situation.

[jimjamuser]

We should be embracing immigration. Our future looks quite grim without it. This is why the inane conversation about infrastructure simply points out the lack of forward thinking in Washington.

We simply do not have enough "workers" to grow, without the infrastructure.


I offer this, but there are many good, well thought out, dissertations on this subject.

This was published about 5 months ago.

What the 2020 census will reveal about America: Stagnating growth, an aging population, and youthful diversity (https://www.brookings.edu/research/what-the-2020-census-will-reveal-about-america-stagnating-growth-an-aging-population-and-youthful-diversity/)

Better than talking about immigrants, AND blacks as a group to fear, we should look forward and embrace new ideas and thoughts.
You said "to grow". That's like GNP - it is a FALSE GOD. Read my posts carefully...please......please then decide with an open mind. Please!

[Bucco]

You said "to grow". That's like GNP - it is a FALSE GOD. Read my posts carefully...please......please then decide with an open mind. Please!

I have been reading (and posting) on this. I offer more food for thought....

More Immigration Needed to Offset COVID-19 and America’s Demographic Decline | Mercatus Center (https://www.mercatus.org/publications/trade-and-immigration/more-immigration-needed-offset-covid-19-and-america’s-demographic)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/america-growth-slowing/2021/05/09/3a4b81ba-b032-11eb-ab4c-986555a1c511_story.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/americans-dip-in-population-growth-is-a-warning-we-shouldnt-ignore/2020/01/03/4f65d1c0-2d90-11ea-bcd4-24597950008f_story.html

We are becoming an older, bitter country. We need an infusion of new minds and bodies....heck even if to just fill the job openings that grow, despite COVID.

[graciegirl]

When the recurrent motive a poster has is to find something to be angry about, his/her logic is lost on me.

I feel and see and recognize someone wanting a fight. I get to the point I don't care much why they are angry.

There are some things between humans that are just based on innate instinct. We know when someone is out to harm and someone is afraid and someone is truly thinking and absorbing and allowing themselves to process knowledge.

Every one of us in this dangerous world should be profiling if they do not do so. It isn't wrong to separate yourself from danger and dangerous situations and dangerous people.

That also means that one needs to see the wolf in sheep's clothing.

And it also means to find a group that is a place that you can comfortably be yourself.

Times have changed. Our grandkids cannot safely walk a long way to school like we used to.

We are now told black is white and we must learn new words and new theories so we can hate people for no GOOD reason.

[tvbound]

The old lizard brain that says "scary big black man," has become more and more dominant in a lot of scared people. When all else is stripped away, it mostly boils down to this.

[graciegirl]

The old lizard brain that says "scary big black man," has become more and more dominant in a lot of scared people. When all else is stripped away, it mostly boils down to this.

It is hard to not be bigoted. Even people who think they are not, group people together and see common features. Maybe being bigoted has a plus side?

My lizard brain part sees people trying to make me forget that some enemies will hurt me. The enemies are many hues and many sizes and some appear quite tame.

[GrumpyOldMan]

It is hard to not be bigoted. Even people who think they are not, group people together and see common features. Maybe being bigoted has a plus side?

My lizard brain part sees people trying to make me forget that some enemies will hurt me. The enemies are many hues and many sizes and some appear quite tame.

So very true, I know very few people that are not bigoted. We all have preconceived beliefs that we look for ways to justify or legitimize.

The problems come in when those beliefs result in harm to other people.

[manaboutown]

So very true, I know very few people that are not bigoted. We all have preconceived beliefs that we look for ways to justify or legitimize.

The problems come in when those beliefs result in harm to other people.

Most of the people I know are NOT bigoted. I do not care to associate with those who are bigoted.

[Bonnevie]

From: What critical race theory is really about

you should also point out this is an opinion piece in the NY Post if you are going to site it

[Bucco]

It is hard to not be bigoted. Even people who think they are not, group people together and see common features. Maybe being bigoted has a plus side?

My lizard brain part sees people trying to make me forget that some enemies will hurt me. The enemies are many hues and many sizes and some appear quite tame.

Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves.

[graciegirl]

Some people simply need to be the center of attention, and will argue black is white in order to keep the spotlight. This can occur for lots of reasons; they might feel ignored in their home life, or feel impotent in other areas of their social or professional relationships.

If a person is unreasonable simply for attention, it isn’t wise to stroke their ego. You will only find yourself drawn into their appeals for attention, and may be supporting their egocentricity by doing so.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Good, I thought my hypothesis would touch a nerve. Immigration was good up till about 1980 when it became excessive in MY opinion. And you did NOT Address my comment about either quality of life or an OPTIMUM population. Suppose you have 2 dogs in your house. Life is good. Then you get to 5 dogs, and you husband feels that he is spending too much time feeding and going to the Vet. for them. Then, you get to 10 dogs and the neighbors start complaining and you have to defend against a lawsuit and your neighbors no longer talk to you. Life has less quality of life. Then you get 20 dogs and rocks are thrown through your windows. Then you are away and the house is burned down. Now, life is terrible for YOU. I know you see my point. It just sounds anti-progressive. I get that!

The point is, these dogs didn't just appear out of nowhere. They came from someplace that wasn't all that great in the first place. If you fix that place, you won't find all those unwanted dogs in the kennel. People won't be so eager to dump them on you. The dogs need to live SOMEWHERE.

If you want to compare accurately, how about we just leave them in their former homes where they are abused and used for bait in dog fights, or who are abandoned in their yards and left to starve? Why not just do that?

And let's carry that comparison (since you're the one who wants to compare immigrants to unwanted dogs) to people:

How about we just euthanize all the immigrants? Unwanted mongrels, let's just put them all to sleep. Whenever they come to our kennel (the border) we don't even check to see if they're adoptable. We just put them down.

No? You don't want to do that? Why not? That is the comparison you are choosing here. Unwanted dogs = unwanted immigrants.

It's a sick comparison. And I wouldn't do that with a dog, either by the way. Fix the problem at its source. The countries these people are coming FROM are inhospitable to civilized human existence. They have to go SOMEWHERE and they don't have the means to buy an island and create their own peaceful civilization. So they come here.

Will we tell them they have to go back to being abused, murdered, terrorized, sold into slavery, tortured? Or will we take them WHILE we attempt to get their home countries to stop doing this to each other?

You only get to pick one option.

I choose humanity. Even if it's inconvenient.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Sorry, I am NOT on Facebook to protest Mark Zuckerdorkhead elitist scumbag (that the government should break up)!

Let's talk about whether the US is fundamentally racist.... - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtMtEsrXuMg)

There it is on youtube for you.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So very true, I know very few people that are not bigoted. We all have preconceived beliefs that we look for ways to justify or legitimize.

The problems come in when those beliefs result in harm to other people.

There's a difference between prejudice and bigotry.

We all have prejudices. Most of us are not bigots.

[tvbound]

"But, it shows fear of people with a different color skin is greater than the destruction of our democracy."


That single statement, was not only the cause of our nation's bloodiest war, but is what currently drives a significant demographic of our current populace. Those leaders who have been successful in incorporating that philosophy into their lies, conspiracies and propaganda, have shown to be very successful in doing so.

[tvbound]

Let's talk about whether the US is fundamentally racist.... - YouTube (/watch?v=ZtMtEsrXuMg)

There it is on youtube for you.

This person's take on it is so dead on, a lot of people will quit watching long before its end.

[manaboutown]

Seems to me the public schools should be concentrating on the 3 Rs, reading, writing and arithmetic. I just checked the data on the Baltimore City schools. Only 21% of their students are proficient in reading; only 16% are proficient in mathematics. To me that is appalling.

Baltimore City Public Schools Test Scores and Academics - Niche (https://www.niche.com/k12/d/baltimore-city-public-schools-md/academics/)

Oh My! In Detroit 18% are proficient in reading and 12% proficient in math.

Detroit Public Schools Community School District - Michigan - Niche (https://www.niche.com/k12/d/detroit-public-schools-community-school-district-mi/)

[billethkid]

Seems to me the public schools should be concentrating on the 3 Rs, reading, writing and arithmetic. I just checked the data on the Baltimore City schools. Only 21% of their students are proficient in reading; only 16% are proficient in mathematics. To me that is appalling.

Baltimore City Public Schools Test Scores and Academics - Niche (https://www.niche.com/k12/d/baltimore-city-public-schools-md/academics/)

Oh My! In Detroit 18% are proficient in reading and 12% proficient in math.

Access to this page has been denied. (https://www.niche.com/k12/d/detroit-public-schools-community-school-district-mi/)

:BigApplause:

[Bucco]

It is difficult to believe that so many folks who loudly profess anti-government thoughts are simply fine with allowing elected people to decide to eliminate real history because they don't like it.

Kids deserve truth, not lies.

[stanley]

It is difficult to believe that so many folks who loudly profess anti-government thoughts are simply fine with allowing elected people to decide to eliminate real history because they don't like it.

Kids deserve truth, not lies.

A Government of the people, by the people, for the people

[Bucco]

A Government of the people, by the people, for the people

ALL people and based on the truth.

This has been around for over 40 years, and suddenly one side says this is the issue. Along with the FBI causing the Capitol attack. Pushing states tof pass laws in search of an issue. Saying police is their issue, except if attacked in the Capitol.

Sound like your America ?

ALL the people would be great.

Fact is, from my point of view, they are strengthing their opposition, and sealing their fate.

[GrumpyOldMan]

ALL people and based on the truth.

This has been around for over 40 years, and suddenly one side says this is the issue. Along with the FBI causing the Capitol attack. Pushing states tof pass laws in search of an issue. Saying police is their issue, except if attacked in the Capitol.

Sound like your America ?

ALL the people would be great.

Fact is, from my point of view, they are strengthing their opposition, and sealing their fate.

This pretty much sums up the lefts frustration. Every time we think we know what the right wants, they move the goal posts and come up with another conspiracy.

[Bucco]

This pretty much sums up the lefts frustration. Every time we think we know what the right wants, they move the goal posts and come up with another conspiracy.

To clear air from my perspective.

I have served and been faithful to conservative practices all my life. I believed, no make that still believe in what good conservatives always did stand up for.

Morals, truth, small government, straight and honest on the issues.

That conservative belief does not exist anywhere today. In all my time serving those beliefs was I unfaithful to those credos.

Fact is, reading books, etc from many who served those principles with me, I am not even close to being alone. I never actually believed in left or right, just Americans with two different ways to help America and Americans to succeed. We engaged each other on the issues, in a straightforward manner, and gave our souls to find solutions together

Those beliefs have been usurped and distorted. There is no conservative group any longer.

Watching folks like Qnon, and the like simply take over and who admittedly make vicious untrue personal attacks to gain power, not solve issues, not moving my country forward. My former speaker speaks truthfully of his feelings.

Watch shocks me is those who professed n the past, conservative issues, have been snookered and used. I spent most of my days trying to stay ahead of your liberals, but still serving my country and not hating anyone.

I read posts on here from ex conservatives, who now serve the masters of conspiracies, lies and hate and wonder how ones soul is simply twisted.

Sorry for this rant, and if mods allow this, I will take my leave. I am physically ill, after all and then to hear support for theories about the FBI starting the attack on our Capitol, ignoring the call for equality in voting and who want their elected officials to lie to our children about the history of our country.

Frustration, as you say has passed...well beyond that. Watching criminals run my ex group, hearing them supported in anti American rhetoric is gut wrenching.

[manaboutown]

SAT scores peaked in 1963 and have been heading downhill ever since...even with the test having been repeatedly dumbed down.

The New (Dumbed down) SAT. (http://www.everything-about-college.com/TheNewSATSpring2016.html)

Our education system needs to be cleaned up. We should look at South Korea and Finland and learn from them as they are doing it right!

Korea and Finland top OECD’s latest PISA survey of education performance - OECD (https://www.oecd.org/newsroom/koreaandfinlandtopoecdslatestpisasurveyofeducation performance.htm)

[GrumpyOldMan]

To clear air from my perspective.

I have served and been faithful to conservative practices all my life. I believed, no make that still believe in what good conservatives always did stand up for.

Morals, truth, small government, straight and honesty on the issues.

That conservative belief does not exist anywhere today. In all my time serving those beliefs was I unfaithful to those credos.

Fact is, reading books, etc from many who served those principles with me, I am not even close to being alone. I never actually believed in left or right, just Americans with two different ways to help America and Americans to succeed. We engaged each other on the issues, in a straightforward manner, and gave our souls to find solutions together

Those beliefs have been usurped and distorted. There is no conservative group any longer.

Watching folks like Qnon, and the like simply take over and who admittedly make vicious untrue personal attacks to gain power, not solve issues, not moving my country forward. My former speaker speaks truthfully of his feelings.

Watch shocks me is those who professed n the past, conservative issues, have been snookered and used. I spent most of my days trying to stay ahead of your liberals, but still serving my country and not hating anyone.

I read posts on here from ex conservatives, who now serve the masters of conspiracies, lies and hate and wonder how ones soul is simply twisted.

Sorry for this rant, and if mods allow this, I will take my leave. I am physically ill, after all and then to hear support for theories about the FBI starting the attack on our Capitol, ignoring the call for equality in voting and who want their elected officials to lie to our children about the history of our country.

Frustration, as you say has passed...well beyond that. Watching criminals run my ex group, hearing them supported in anti American rhetoric is gut wrenching.

I believe almost everything you posted here. The biggest difference I believe, between the conservatives and liberals (I use left and right, just because it seems to be common vernacular) is how we achieve those goals. And "small" government is defined by how the government serves the people, not so much the number of government employees.

I do think the government has become massively inefficient, and we need to fix that problem - and I do mean fix, not destroy as the current conservatives seem to believe.

[stadry]

talk to the union members repeatedly they refuse incentives...watching out for each other imo

[GrumpyOldMan]

SAT scores peaked in 1963 and have been heading downhill ever since...even with the test having been repeatedly dumbed down.

The New (Dumbed down) SAT. (http://www.everything-about-college.com/TheNewSATSpring2016.html)

Our education system needs to be cleaned up. We should look at South Korea and Finland and learn from them as they are doing it right!

Korea and Finland top OECD’s latest PISA survey of education performance - OECD (https://www.oecd.org/newsroom/koreaandfinlandtopoecdslatestpisasurveyofeducation performance.htm)

I am obviously a liberal, but I think the Student Loans program signed into law by LBJ was a major cause of the decline in education at the college level.

[stanley]

To clear air from my perspective.

I have served and been faithful to conservative practices all my life. I believed, no make that still believe in what good conservatives always did stand up for.

Morals, truth, small government, straight and honest on the issues.

That conservative belief does not exist anywhere today. In all my time serving those beliefs was I unfaithful to those credos.

Fact is, reading books, etc from many who served those principles with me, I am not even close to being alone. I never actually believed in left or right, just Americans with two different ways to help America and Americans to succeed. We engaged each other on the issues, in a straightforward manner, and gave our souls to find solutions together

Those beliefs have been usurped and distorted. There is no conservative group any longer.

Watching folks like Qnon, and the like simply take over and who admittedly make vicious untrue personal attacks to gain power, not solve issues, not moving my country forward. My former speaker speaks truthfully of his feelings.

Watch shocks me is those who professed n the past, conservative issues, have been snookered and used. I spent most of my days trying to stay ahead of your liberals, but still serving my country and not hating anyone.

I read posts on here from ex conservatives, who now serve the masters of conspiracies, lies and hate and wonder how ones soul is simply twisted.

Sorry for this rant, and if mods allow this, I will take my leave. I am physically ill, after all and then to hear support for theories about the FBI starting the attack on our Capitol, ignoring the call for equality in voting and who want their elected officials to lie to our children about the history of our country.

Frustration, as you say has passed...well beyond that. Watching criminals run my ex group, hearing them supported in anti American rhetoric is gut wrenching.

Criminals? In your ex group? Now that's funny **** right there

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

This person's take on it is so dead on, a lot of people will quit watching long before its end.

He's pretty amazing actually.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Criminals? In your ex group? Now that's funny **** right there

I think he is referring to the 34 indictments, guilty pleas, and convictions - for a few.

[Bucco]

I think he is referring to the 34 indictments, guilty pleas, and convictions - for a few.

And the many more to come. Be sure

[Aloha1]

Please share with all of us with "no reason" who exactly supports voting for non Americans ?

Then, subsequently, allow and share any incidents of such things happening ?

Thank you.

As PS....illegal immigrants voting was the charge made in 2016. Including the commission formed to investigate, there has not been one single case of such voting ever shown. Commission was disbanded
What do you have against ensuring that our voting laws guarantee that ALL citizen's votes are legally counted and that no one can "cheat" the system? What do you stand for? No rules at all? Blind trust?

[Aloha1]

It's all in the news recently and will continue. All the states with a certain party in control are PUSHING voter suppression laws because they feel that they need an edge. They are going to try to pass phony laws like in Arizona, Utah. and Georgia. They have NO SHAME OR PATRIOTISM. These laws are also RACIST because they are designed to limit Black and Brown votes. Any NEWS story on TV or in a newspaper will have details on how the wording of the laws is suppressive in nature.
So you haven't taken the time to actually read them yourself.

[Aloha1]

Sorry, I am NOT on Facebook to protest Mark Zuckerdorkhead elitist scumbag (that the government should break up)!

Finally, one thing on which we can agree.

[Bucco]

What do you have against ensuring that our voting laws guarantee that ALL citizen's votes are legally counted and that no one can "cheat" the system? What do you stand for? No rules at all? Blind trust?

I am for truth and honesty.

And according to every single organization...that is 100% referred to 2020 as the safest, most secure, and accurate....ever FBI, Homeland security, you name it.

[Aloha1]

Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves.

And your definition of reason is?

[Aloha1]

Let's talk about whether the US is fundamentally racist.... - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtMtEsrXuMg)

There it is on youtube for you.

And YouTube is part of Google which is just as bad as Facebook.

[Bucco]

I am for truth and honesty.

And according to every single organization...that is 100% referred to 2020 as the safest, most secure, and accurate....ever FBI, Homeland security, you name it.

Not my quote....comes from Lord Byron

[Aloha1]

It is difficult to believe that so many folks who loudly profess anti-government thoughts are simply fine with allowing elected people to decide to eliminate real history because they don't like it.

Kids deserve truth, not lies.

That is EXACTLY the point we've been arguing about. The elimination of true history by substituting falsehoods.

[Byte1]

I would absolutely provide evidence of thousand of voters denied the opportunity to vote as soon as you provide evidence of massive voter fraud - enough to change the outcome of ANY presidential election.

My point was anything that makes it harder for legal voters to vote is bad, and anything that makes it easier for legal voters to vote is good.

I will be around if you can show the need for the laws to protect our votes.

Key word "LEGAL" voters. I have seen absolutely NO laws being voted upon that has made "legal" voting harder or even limited legal voting. Requiring confirmation of ID is NOT making it harder for legal voters to vote, period. No one has a problem providing ID--- NO one. For those suggesting that blacks are "disenfranchised" I remind them that they are suggesting that blacks are too ignorant or stupid to obtain an ID. If that is what they are suggesting, then I am accusing them of being racist. There is absolutely no reason that everyone in the U.S. cannot easily obtain an ID.
As far as GA's new laws, I suggest that folks read them, not listen to liberal pundits pervert the facts. Changing the voting times, merely changed the possible limits, which opened up the possible times to longer periods to vote, not make them shorter.
The food and water issue is also bogus.
Read it before spouting false propaganda.

[Irishmen]

That is EXACTLY the point we've been arguing about. The elimination of true history by substituting falsehoods.

China has no more viable land to cultivate. The waters and rivers are trashed. They want our land and resources openly. The communist here in America will call you CIA conspiracy theorist for stating such. The exact same color revolution happened to Russia in 1917 ending in millions being exterminated. Listen to language of the left. They are useful idiots for the CCP. They are coming for you....

[Byte1]

CRT is currently being taught in over 200 colleges and universities. As for public schools that children are currently attending, there has been many reported incidences where parents have complained about CRT related material being sent home with children from public schools. This is not something that the scary FOX boogieman tells us. This is news that you can get on the internet anywhere EXCEPT possibly liberal biased media. Although, I do not see how anyone can be brainwashed enough to believe that everything that comes from FOX is false information. If you do not believe some news item, you can always refute it by doing a fact check.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Although, I do not see how anyone can be brainwashed enough to believe that everything that comes from FOX is false information. If you do not believe some news item, you can always refute it by doing a fact check.

Fox News is the only news source I regularly read/view. I mostly read headlines and shake my head at other sources.

However, the fact that I read Fox does not mean I accept everything they say, they too spin and create a lot of click-bait articles.

[Byte1]

Sorry, I am NOT on Facebook to protest Mark Zuckerdorkhead elitist scumbag (that the government should break up)!

I think this is the only time I have ever agreed with you.

[Bucco]

That is EXACTLY the point we've been arguing about. The elimination of true history by substituting falsehoods.

You do understand that elimination of CRT as you support, means exactly what you oppose here.

It allows elects officials to decide what NOT to teach.

IF CRT is allowed the kid get the benefit of the truth

This post of your is supporting the censoring of our country's history to satisfy an agenda. Is this what you think our country stands for ?

Add this to all the other conspiracies and untruths and what do you have......

[Bucco]

CRT is currently being taught in over 200 colleges and universities. As for public schools that children are currently attending, there has been many reported incidences where parents have complained about CRT related material being sent home with children from public schools. This is not something that the scary FOX boogieman tells us. This is news that you can get on the internet anywhere EXCEPT possibly liberal biased media. Although, I do not see how anyone can be brainwashed enough to believe that everything that comes from FOX is false information. If you do not believe some news item, you can always refute it by doing a fact check.

Could you kindly share one of "there has been many reported incidences where parents have complained about CRT related material being sent home with children from public schools."

CRT is not taught.....no lesson plan......nothing and has been around for 40 years.

Not much of an issue until 2020, when the leader of a party decided to toss it around sans facts and with no background, and suddenly it is a big topic.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Key word "LEGAL" voters. I have seen absolutely NO laws being voted upon that has made "legal" voting harder or even limited legal voting. Requiring confirmation of ID is NOT making it harder for legal voters to vote, period. No one has a problem providing ID--- NO one. For those suggesting that blacks are "disenfranchised" I remind them that they are suggesting that blacks are too ignorant or stupid to obtain an ID. If that is what they are suggesting, then I am accusing them of being racist. There is absolutely no reason that everyone in the U.S. cannot easily obtain an ID.
As far as GA's new laws, I suggest that folks read them, not listen to liberal pundits pervert the facts. Changing the voting times, merely changed the possible limits, which opened up the possible times to longer periods to vote, not make them shorter.
The food and water issue is also bogus.
Read it before spouting false propaganda.

Are you saying I lied?

[Byte1]

Are you saying I lied?

A lie is a false statement with the intent to deceive. Did you lie, or are you just mistaken? :ho:

[jimjamuser]

Because the USA is a better place to live, has better opportunities, has better healthcare, has better chance to survive through fascism (since that's what they are living with in their home countries right now)?

If you want people to stop trying to come here, then you need to make this an unattractive destination point. And at that point, why would YOU want to live here?

Also you could say the same thing about Florida. Imagine all the people who were born and raised in Florida, saying the exact same thing about the "immigrants" from other parts of this country? Imagine - all the people who were born and raised in Sumter County, saying the exact same thing about the Villages and all of us who have MIGRATED to Florida in our retirement.

Be grateful they didn't build a wall to keep you out.
You are taking a Progressive view on immigration, the "standard" view. I am a Progressive about ALL other issues. And, actually, maybe (?) my view is ssssooooo much more progressive that it could seem backward or conservative. Here is MY thinking......MOST people judge a country's value by GNP, which is good for certain things like power and economic growth. Most average people JUDGE their lives by how GOOD they feel about various elements. I would call that more like "Quality of Life" - which can be looked up on lists for comparisons between countries. I would call Quality of Life to be a better measuring stick than GDP. And I would call thinking in those terms of Quality of Life to be PROGRESSIVE and GDP to be more conservative.

I contend that after about 275 Million people in the US, that each NEW arrival has caused the Quality of Life to decrease. People talk about the "good old" days of the 1950s and 60s and in MANY ways, they are RIGHT. The ratio of natural resources to population was in a BETTER balance then than today. I gave my analogy about a home having more and more dogs - causing Quality of Life to go from good to bad. Try putting more and more goldfish in ONE bowl and SEE the same idea. I understand that your interpretation is the currently prevailing one and mine is the CURRENT outlier. I, also, believe that most people have NEVER really thought about it. It is EASY to believe that the status quo is the RIGHT and best solution. And it would, also, be COSERVATIVE. I am questioning the status quo, therefore, I am PROGRESSIVE.

[jimjamuser]

When the recurrent motive a poster has is to find something to be angry about, his/her logic is lost on me.

I feel and see and recognize someone wanting a fight. I get to the point I don't care much why they are angry.

There are some things between humans that are just based on innate instinct. We know when someone is out to harm and someone is afraid and someone is truly thinking and absorbing and allowing themselves to process knowledge.

Every one of us in this dangerous world should be profiling if they do not do so. It isn't wrong to separate yourself from danger and dangerous situations and dangerous people.

That also means that one needs to see the wolf in sheep's clothing.

And it also means to find a group that is a place that you can comfortably be yourself.

Times have changed. Our grandkids cannot safely walk a long way to school like we used to.

We are now told black is white and we must learn new words and new theories so we can hate people for no GOOD reason.
A person CAN get COMFORTABLE by sedating themselves against life and DIFFERENT ideas. Different is NOT angry. Others MAY(?) find it that way. Diversity is thought-provoking. I have ZERO problem with diversity. It is outgrowing your resources that I am speaking about!

[Bucco]

Fox News is the only news source I regularly read/view. I mostly read headlines and shake my head at other sources.

However, the fact that I read Fox does not mean I accept everything they say, they too spin and create a lot of click-bait articles.

Sorry, this does not make sense in anyway. Where do you get your reality ?

[jimjamuser]

The old lizard brain that says "scary big black man," has become more and more dominant in a lot of scared people. When all else is stripped away, it mostly boils down to this.
That problem was ALMOST solved in the 60s with Civil Rights Legislation. It JUST did NOT go far enough!

[jimjamuser]

Most of the people I know are NOT bigoted. I do not care to associate with those who are bigoted.
Bigoted like Tucker?

[jimjamuser]

The point is, these dogs didn't just appear out of nowhere. They came from someplace that wasn't all that great in the first place. If you fix that place, you won't find all those unwanted dogs in the kennel. People won't be so eager to dump them on you. The dogs need to live SOMEWHERE.

If you want to compare accurately, how about we just leave them in their former homes where they are abused and used for bait in dog fights, or who are abandoned in their yards and left to starve? Why not just do that?

And let's carry that comparison (since you're the one who wants to compare immigrants to unwanted dogs) to people:

How about we just euthanize all the immigrants? Unwanted mongrels, let's just put them all to sleep. Whenever they come to our kennel (the border) we don't even check to see if they're adoptable. We just put them down.

No? You don't want to do that? Why not? That is the comparison you are choosing here. Unwanted dogs = unwanted immigrants.

It's a sick comparison. And I wouldn't do that with a dog, either by the way. Fix the problem at its source. The countries these people are coming FROM are inhospitable to civilized human existence. They have to go SOMEWHERE and they don't have the means to buy an island and create their own peaceful civilization. So they come here.

Will we tell them they have to go back to being abused, murdered, terrorized, sold into slavery, tortured? Or will we take them WHILE we attempt to get their home countries to stop doing this to each other?

You only get to pick one option.

I choose humanity. Even if it's inconvenient.
You have put MANY, MANY words in MY mouth And you took my dog's analogy too literally. It really was NOT about dogs. I LOVE dogs and they LOVE me - for the record! You choose to NOT look into MY ideas with ANY depth. That's OK. I still will VALUE your ideas, even ANY that are outliers.

[jimjamuser]

Let's talk about whether the US is fundamentally racist.... - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtMtEsrXuMg)

There it is on youtube for you.
I watched it. It was, sort of, weak on covering any new ideas. Sorry!

[jimjamuser]

I am obviously a liberal, but I think the Student Loans program signed into law by LBJ was a major cause of the decline in education at the college level.
Excessively high salaries at the top end drove up college costs and helped THAT decline.

[manaboutown]

Bigoted like Tucker?

Tucker is no bigot, unlike the propaganda and disinformation spewing talking heads on the so-called mainstream media who even partially censure transcripts, videos and records of events to skew the story to fit their agendas.

[Aloha1]

You do understand that elimination of CRT as you support, means exactly what you oppose here.

It allows elects officials to decide what NOT to teach.

IF CRT is allowed the kid get the benefit of the truth

This post of your is supporting the censoring of our country's history to satisfy an agenda. Is this what you think our country stands for ?

Add this to all the other conspiracies and untruths and what do you have......

What we have is apparently an impossible divide. You have stated your position ad nauseam. Based on my own research , I completely disagree. Perhaps someday, you will actually research the issue but I will no longer waste my time trying to lead the horse to water since it will not drink. Good day.

[Aloha1]

Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves.

If the shoe fits....

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

CRT is not being taught in grade schools. It's a non-issue. It's not a thing. The "CRT is being taught in grade schools" is fiction, propaganda, a conspiracy theory of the alt-right and Qanon. It's not a thing that's actually happening. There are no reports of it actually happening anywhere. There's only people screaming that it's happening and needs to stop. But you can't stop something that isn't actually happening.

[manaboutown]

CRT is not being taught in grade schools. It's a non-issue. It's not a thing. The "CRT is being taught in grade schools" is fiction, propaganda, a conspiracy theory of the alt-right and Qanon. It's not a thing that's actually happening. There are no reports of it actually happening anywhere. There's only people screaming that it's happening and needs to stop. But you can't stop something that isn't actually happening.

Parents beware: CRT which is nothing but racist garbage propaganda and brainwashing, is being used in grade schools. Critical Race Theory in American Classrooms | City Journal (https://www.city-journal.org/critical-race-theory-in-american-classrooms?wallit_nosession=1)

Schools are there to educate children, not indoctrinate them with socialist nonsense.

[Bucco]

CRT is not being taught in grade schools. It's a non-issue. It's not a thing. The "CRT is being taught in grade schools" is fiction, propaganda, a conspiracy theory of the alt-right and Qanon. It's not a thing that's actually happening. There are no reports of it actually happening anywhere. There's only people screaming that it's happening and needs to stop. But you can't stop something that isn't actually happening.

Thank you.

These are the same folks who believe, as stated on Fox, that the FBI was "behind the Jan 6 riots", that consistently say CRT is taught, that support any QAnon conspiracy, who preach openly anti American dialogue, who believe everything is a conspiracy, who do not believe in any election that their candidate loses.

Same people, same old non reality accepting, unamerican, people.

Then their backers who will slam anyone who might be aware of reality, anyone who will not share their hate, who sees a bad person around every corner (except if they might share their party)

It is sad not only to read, but depressing to think they pass all this unamerican talk to children, grand children, etc.

I believe sincerely that they do not realize that they are destroying from inside, not only our country, but their own party.

Facing reality will be a shock for these folks. So long without it.

[Bucco]

If the shoe fits....

I will certainly share your feelings with Lord Byron when I see him..

[Irishmen]

I NEVER suggested that Blacks and Browns were too ignorant at ANYTHING. I WOULD suggest that maybe you should get more informed about the dark, hidden ramifications about the lines drawn by gerrymandering.

same people who says DC should be a state and who benefits.

[Irishmen]

You are taking a Progressive view on immigration, the "standard" view. I am a Progressive about ALL other issues. And, actually, maybe (?) my view is ssssooooo much more progressive that it could seem backward or conservative. Here is MY thinking......MOST people judge a country's value by GNP, which is good for certain things like power and economic growth. Most average people JUDGE their lives by how GOOD they feel about various elements. I would call that more like "Quality of Life" - which can be looked up on lists for comparisons between countries. I would call Quality of Life to be a better measuring stick than GDP. And I would call thinking in those terms of Quality of Life to be PROGRESSIVE and GDP to be more conservative.

I contend that after about 275 Million people in the US, that each NEW arrival has caused the Quality of Life to decrease. People talk about the "good old" days of the 1950s and 60s and in MANY ways, they are RIGHT. The ratio of natural resources to population was in a BETTER balance then than today. I gave my analogy about a home having more and more dogs - causing Quality of Life to go from good to bad. Try putting more and more goldfish in ONE bowl and SEE the same idea. I understand that your interpretation is the currently prevailing one and mine is the CURRENT outlier. I, also, believe that most people have NEVER really thought about it. It is EASY to believe that the status quo is the RIGHT and best solution. And it would, also, be COSERVATIVE. I am questioning the status quo, therefore, I am PROGRESSIVE.

May I suggest reading the Lima Declaration. It's black and white. There is a reason to flood our land from third world countries. Also read the Great Reset all there for those who use critical thinking.