Mask wearing to continue for me.

[Garywt]

Was at the doctors today and he was telling me that 10 of his vaccinated patients got sick and 2 died. The vaccine is not mixing well with certain blood cancers, mine being one of them. So moving forward I was told to take all precautions as if I never had the vaccine. So status quo for me.

[golfing eagles]

Was at the doctors today and he was telling me that 10 of his vaccinated patients got sick and 2 died. The vaccine is not mixing well with certain blood cancers, mine being one of them. So moving forward I was told to take all precautions as if I never had the vaccine. So status quo for me.

According to the CDC, as of April 30th, out of 101 million fully vaccinated individuals, there were 10,262 breakthrough cases (=0.01%). Of these approx. 10% were hospitalized (1,026) and 2% died (205= .0002%). According to the CDC, "many" of the deaths were UNRELATED to COVID-19.

So, assuming your doctor has an average practice of 2000 patients and half of them were fully vaccinated (reasonable assumptions), he would have had 10/1000 contract COVID after vaccination (50 times the national rate) and 2/1000 die (0.2% or 1000 times the national rate). Something doesn't sound right at all.

[Kenswing]

According to the CDC, as of April 30th, out of 101 million fully vaccinated individuals, there were 10,262 breakthrough cases (=0.02%). Of these approx. 10% were hospitalized (1,026) and 2% died (205= .0002%). According to the CDC, "many" of the deaths were UNRELATED to COVID-19.

So, assuming your doctor has an average practice of 2000 patients and half of them were fully vaccinated (reasonable assumptions), he would have had 10/1000 contract COVID after vaccination (50 times the national rate) and 2/1000 die (0.2% or 1000 times the national rate). Something doesn't sound right at all.

I believe he's talking specifically about cancer patients with certain types of cancer.

[golfing eagles]

I believe he's talking specifically about cancer patients with certain types of cancer.

Thanks, I believe I gathered that. But even IF his physician is an oncologist, and IF he was only seeing patients with active disease, there is no concrete evidence that the vaccine is substantially less effective in those with hematologic malignancies, over and above the immunosuppression that goes with those disorders, and certainly not at 1000 times the national rate in general.

[Kenswing]

Thanks, I believe I gathered that. But even IF his physician is an oncologist, and IF he was only seeing patients with active disease, there is no concrete evidence that the vaccine is substantially less effective in those with hematologic malignancies, over and above the immunosuppression that goes with those disorders, and certainly not at 1000 times the national rate in general.
:1rotfl: Easy there feller.. He's just relaying what his doctor told him. :1rotfl: :1rotfl:

[golfing eagles]

:1rotfl: Easy there feller.. He's just relaying what his doctor told him. :1rotfl: :1rotfl:

I gathered that as well. All I did was comment that , on the face of it, the numbers just didn't sound right.

I didn't even get into the fact that the OP wearing a mask does almost nothing to protect him

[clekr]

Read Faucci's emails. He told a colleague "those cloth masks ... are useless..."

[golfing eagles]

Read Faucci's emails. He told a colleague "those cloth masks ... are useless..."

Old news. It's no secret that masks were generally useless to protect an individual. They do a great deal to protect others from an infected person by limiting the spread of respiratory droplets.

[clekr]

You don't need protection from droplets. You're seeking protection from the virus. For which they are deemed "useless" by the "expert".

[golfing eagles]

You don't need protection from droplets. You're seeking protection from the virus. For which they are deemed "useless" by the "expert".

But as far as a sneeze, cough or even a yell go, the virus is carried by droplets

[Velvet]

Wear an n95 mask if you wear one, Gary. That is more likely to protect you and you don’t need to double mask either. I’m so used to it I have to remind myself to take it off outside etc.

[golfing eagles]

Was at the doctors today and he was telling me that 10 of his vaccinated patients got sick and 2 died. The vaccine is not mixing well with certain blood cancers, mine being one of them. So moving forward I was told to take all precautions as if I never had the vaccine. So status quo for me.

According to the CDC, as of April 30th, out of 101 million fully vaccinated individuals, there were 10,262 breakthrough cases (=0.01%). Of these approx. 10% were hospitalized (1,026) and 2% died (205= .0002%). According to the CDC, "many" of the deaths were UNRELATED to COVID-19.

So, assuming your doctor has an average practice of 2000 patients and half of them were fully vaccinated (reasonable assumptions), he would have had 10/1000 contract COVID after vaccination (50 times the national rate) and 2/1000 die (0.2% or 1000 times the national rate). Something doesn't sound right at all.

This may help explain the discrepancy in numbers, from The Lancet:

"Authorised COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective in the general population. Given the high case fatality rate among patients with haematological conditions, prioritisation of COVID-19 vaccines for this group might appear straightforward. However, common to these vaccines is the exclusion of immunocompromised people from landmark phase 3 randomised controlled trials. Relevant exclusion criteria included the use of immunosuppressive or immunomodulatory agents, immunoglobulin or blood products, asplenia, and autoimmune conditions such as immune thrombocytopenic purpura. Most patients with haematological conditions, therefore, would have been ineligible for these trials. Until COVID-19 vaccines have been rigorously studied in this group, one must examine available data on the immune response to COVID-19 infection and non-COVID-19 vaccines to inform clinical practice and expectations.

Haematological conditions and their treatment are heterogeneous, and so the immune response to infection or vaccination is also expected to be variable. A case series reported 14 (67%) of 21 patients with chronic lymphocytic leukaemia developed IgG antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 nucleocapsid.3 Those who did not develop antibodies included both treatment-naive patients and patients receiving chronic lymphocytic leukaemia-directed therapy. The seroconversion rate among recipients of haematopoietic stem-cell transplantation and chimeric antigen receptor T-cell therapy was similar at 66% (25 of 38 patients).4 Intriguingly, B-cell lymphopenia in these patients did not preclude an antibody response to SARS-CoV-2. In acute leukaemia, antibodies against the external spike glycoprotein and internal nucleocapsid were detected in seven (88%) of eight patients.5 Besides a lower rate of antibody production, the humoral response in patients with haematological conditions is also slower than in the general population. SARS-CoV-2-specific cellular immunity in this group still needs to be characterised."

Translation for the non-professional:

We just don't know the breakthrough rate for fully vaccinated individuals with hematologic malignancies. However, since antibodies to the spike protein were measurable in only 88%, it is theoretically possible to have a breakthrough rate approaching that, but in the real world is probably much lower. However, that would still be over 100 times less effective than it is in the general population

[Becca9800]

According to the CDC, "many" of the deaths were UNRELATED to COVID-19. Something doesn't sound right at all.

100% agree, something doesn't sound right. These deaths are unrelated to having Covid. And we're to just accept this? It was Covid that killed 100s of thousands but not in these cases. Call me skeptical.

@Garywt, What a tough spot to be in, do what you have to do. I wish you only the best.

[Taltarzac725]

The Villages Rehab and Nursing Center when we visited them in the Fall of 2020 had given approved visitors face shields and also had us wear face masks. Rehabilitation, Skilled Nursing Care, Post Surgical Care in Lady Lake FL (https://www.thevillagesrehab.com/)

I would often use both in the Fall and early Spring if out shopping or elsewhere.

Do not use either now as I and my family members have all had two shots of the antivirus for COVID-19.

[coralway]

Was at the doctors today and he was telling me that 10 of his vaccinated patients got sick and 2 died. The vaccine is not mixing well with certain blood cancers, mine being one of them. So moving forward I was told to take all precautions as if I never had the vaccine. So status quo for me.




The remaining eight need to find a new doctor.

[Blueblaze]

If you have a compromised immune system, any vaccine can fail. By definition, you need a functional immune system to generate an immune response from any vaccine. People being treated for cancer usually have a impaired immune system from the treatment itself.

Yes, there have been "breakthrough" cases. And they fall into one of two categories:

1) They caught a cold and were forced for some reason to take that stupid 5 minute "rapid" test with the 50% failure rate that simply identifies ANY coronavirus as COVID-19.

2) They had a serious disease and an inhibited immune system, that prevented the vaccine from working.

My god, if you're under treatment for cancer, stay home! Your doctor must have warned you to not only wear a mask, but to stay home to prevent exposure to ANY infectious disease. If your immune system is compromised enough that a vaccine might not work, any minor infection could become a major medical emergency!

Yes, in your case, you need to wear a mask, regardless of whether you've received the vaccine or not, but that's got almost nothing to do with the Covid epidemic.

[Gpsma]

All I know is if I see people wearing masks now, I walk as far away from them as possible. They must be diseased.

[coffeebean]

Old news. It's no secret that masks were generally useless to protect an individual. They do a great deal to protect others from an infected person by limiting the spread of respiratory droplets.

GE......how many time does this have to be said for people to begin to understand the concept of "source control"? I gave that up on this site some time ago.

Also......anyone who really needs protection should be wearing only an N95 Mask. Don't you agree?

[coffeebean]

You don't need protection from droplets. You're seeking protection from the virus. For which they are deemed "useless" by the "expert".

Now, THAT is an oxymoron if I ever heard one. LOL.

[golfing eagles]

GE......how many time does this have to be said for people to begin to understand the concept of "source control"? I gave that up on this site some time ago.

Also......anyone who really needs protection should be wearing only an N95 Mask. Don't you agree?

Yep

[Malsua]

Now, THAT is an oxymoron if I ever heard one. LOL.

I can't speak to this person's meaning. That said, aerosols and droplets are two different methods of transmission. It's a spectrum really, you go from large droplets down to super tiny aerosols and both can have a viral load. It has been known for quite some time that transmission is occurring from both of these methods.

Cloth masks, blue surgical masks and the like have essentially zero protection from aerosols. N95 does offer protection for the wearer.

As you said above, for source control paper/blue/cloth masks work pretty good for droplets. Against aerosols though, it's much less effective.

Most infections occurred in familial settings. The other bulk were at super spread events _INDOORS_, like weddings and big parties. Outdoors, the viral inoculum is diluted rapidly. New Year's Eve Times Square might be an issue, but even at their busiest, places like the squares were never packed enough to be a problem.

I'm of the opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it, if you or anyone is symptomatic(coughing sneezing, etc.), stay home or wear a good mask. If you are immunocompromised, wear an N95. Everyone else, get on with life maskless, specially those vaccinated.

[manaboutown]

In the last two days I have seen both my GP and my Ophthalmologist. Although the clerical and medical staffs wore masks in the hallways, their work areas and waiting rooms once I was in an examination room the physicians and I took our masks off as we had been vaccinated and felt free to do so.

[Swoop]

According to the CDC, as of April 30th, out of 101 million fully vaccinated individuals, there were 10,262 breakthrough cases (=0.01%). Of these approx. 10% were hospitalized (1,026) and 2% died (205= .0002%). According to the CDC, "many" of the deaths were UNRELATED to COVID-19.

So, assuming your doctor has an average practice of 2000 patients and half of them were fully vaccinated (reasonable assumptions), he would have had 10/1000 contract COVID after vaccination (50 times the national rate) and 2/1000 die (0.2% or 1000 times the national rate). Something doesn't sound right at all.

The latest CDC number show percentages are now a little higher. 139 million fully vaccinated, 3,459 breakthrough hospitalizations with 603 deaths.

[Garywt]

The remaining eight need to find a new doctor.

Why would you say that. An oncologist does not treat a patient for COVID. He is an awesome doctor and has kept me alive for 8 years. Multiple Myeloma is an incurable cancer that I live with. Been on chemo for 8 years now.

[Garywt]

According to the CDC, as of April 30th, out of 101 million fully vaccinated individuals, there were 10,262 breakthrough cases (=0.01%). Of these approx. 10% were hospitalized (1,026) and 2% died (205= .0002%). According to the CDC, "many" of the deaths were UNRELATED to COVID-19.

So, assuming your doctor has an average practice of 2000 patients and half of them were fully vaccinated (reasonable assumptions), he would have had 10/1000 contract COVID after vaccination (50 times the national rate) and 2/1000 die (0.2% or 1000 times the national rate). Something doesn't sound right at all.

You should really shut your mouth when you don’t know but we all know you can’t. When you have cancer you put 100% trust into your doctor so when you get the call that an appointment has been set for your vaccine, you go. You don’t question it or anything. My guess is 100% of his patients got the shot. Also he might have been meaning his teams patients or the practices patients but 10 came down with COVID after being vaccinated and 2 of the 10 died. Now people that don’t believe and think Trump made it all up can’t understand all these people dying.

[Garywt]

GE......how many time does this have to be said for people to begin to understand the concept of "source control"? I gave that up on this site some time ago.

Also......anyone who really needs protection should be wearing only an N95 Mask. Don't you agree?

My wife wears those at work and after about 2 hours or so she starts to get lightheaded. Not sure what happens to those wearing one for 8 hours.

[golfing eagles]

You should really shut your mouth when you don’t know but we all know you can’t. When you have cancer you put 100% trust into your doctor so when you get the call that an appointment has been set for your vaccine, you go. You don’t question it or anything. My guess is 100% of his patients got the shot. Also he might have been meaning his teams patients or the practices patients but 10 came down with COVID after being vaccinated and 2 of the 10 died. Now people that don’t believe and think Trump made it all up can’t understand all these people dying.

Let's make a few things VERY clear:

First, MM sucks, so you are doing great to be on this forum after 8 years. Congratulations and best of luck in the future. That being said-----

Second, when it comes to medicine, I most certainly know what I am talking about and therefore have no intention of "shutting my mouth". The Hippocratic Oath hanging on my wall states the obligation of physicians to teach others, which is why I attempt to set the record straight when I see posts that need correcting.

Third, I really wish you had carefully read post #12 before rushing to your keyboard, it goes a long way to explain why your oncologist experienced higher numbers than the population in general

Fourth, you are the exceptional patient if you put 100% in your doctor. Most patients these days come to their visit with some google search, or an article from Reader's Digest, or something their cousin's hairdresser's mailman said.

Fifth, I would doubt 100% of any population has been vaccinated, even one as highly motivated as those being actively treated for a hematologic malignancy. But even so, it doesn't change the original statistical argument by much.

Sixth, just out of curiosity, what does the former president have to do with this thread at all?

Seventh, once again, keep up the good work.

[Rosebud1949]

Was at the doctors today and he was telling me that 10 of his vaccinated patients got sick and 2 died. The vaccine is not mixing well with certain blood cancers, mine being one of them. So moving forward I was told to take all precautions as if I never had the vaccine. So status quo for me.

I am sorry for your illness. Do what makes you feel safe. The vaccine is NOT A CURE.. you can still get Covid but its less of a killer. No maskers and no vaxxers will learn one day, sadly someone has to care for them when they are sick, but they care not for others but themselves. A sad world and this Virus has shown folk in their true colors.

[thevillages2013]

Was at the doctors today and he was telling me that 10 of his vaccinated patients got sick and 2 died. The vaccine is not mixing well with certain blood cancers, mine being one of them. So moving forward I was told to take all precautions as if I never had the vaccine. So status quo for me.
Did the other patients get sick because of getting the vaccine or did they get Covid and die because the vaccine was not effective for them?

[Maryland04]

I do not believe that any doctor would tell you how many of his/hers patients died, this would be on him/her and affect their business.

[nick demis]

Old news. It's no secret that masks were generally useless to protect an individual. They do a great deal to protect others from an infected person by limiting the spread of respiratory droplets.

Sorry but that has proven to be false.

[golfing eagles]

Sorry but that has proven to be false.

Legitimate citation, please

[golfing eagles]

I do not believe that any doctor would tell you how many of his/hers patients died, this would be on him/her and affect their business.

Why would you doubt the OP's word????

[mlmarr1]

Was at the doctors today and he was telling me that 10 of his vaccinated patients got sick and 2 died. The vaccine is not mixing well with certain blood cancers, mine being one of them. So moving forward I was told to take all precautions as if I never had the vaccine. So status quo for me.

v19 shot is not FDA approved /testing through out the world .. ..
just take care of your self let the others do the same..
improve your immune system with the correct vitamins .. and breathe ..

[Eg_cruz]

According to the CDC, as of April 30th, out of 101 million fully vaccinated individuals, there were 10,262 breakthrough cases (=0.01%). Of these approx. 10% were hospitalized (1,026) and 2% died (205= .0002%). According to the CDC, "many" of the deaths were UNRELATED to COVID-19.

So, assuming your doctor has an average practice of 2000 patients and half of them were fully vaccinated (reasonable assumptions), he would have had 10/1000 contract COVID after vaccination (50 times the national rate) and 2/1000 die (0.2% or 1000 times the national rate). Something doesn't sound right at all.
Yes…….it hasn’t sounded right since day one!!! So NOW we are to believe the CDC 2020 we were told their number were off but the media said no no, if you had a heart attack and tested positive for Covid you died from Covid even if you had the widow maker, NOW they are singing yet an other tune…… after all we had to fit their narrative. 2020 was were all going to die, 2021 vax people can get Covid but your not going to die. NOW if you have the widow maker and Covid and have been vax…….you died of a heart attack……CDC???? Why do they keep talking and why do we keep trying to listen to them. If you don’t think this a political and that it is science…….
And yes I know who you are.

[GeriS]

Read Faucci's emails. He told a colleague "those cloth masks ... are useless..."
Fauci lied, people died.

[GeriS]

If you have a compromised immune system, any vaccine can fail. By definition, you need a functional immune system to generate an immune response from any vaccine. People being treated for cancer usually have a impaired immune system from the treatment itself.

Yes, there have been "breakthrough" cases. And they fall into one of two categories:

1) They caught a cold and were forced for some reason to take that stupid 5 minute "rapid" test with the 50% failure rate that simply identifies ANY coronavirus as COVID-19.

2) They had a serious disease and an inhibited immune system, that prevented the vaccine from working.

My god, if you're under treatment for cancer, stay home! Your doctor must have warned you to not only wear a mask, but to stay home to prevent exposure to ANY infectious disease. If your immune system is compromised enough that a vaccine might not work, any minor infection could become a major medical emergency!

Yes, in your case, you need to wear a mask, regardless of whether you've received the vaccine or not, but that's got almost nothing to do with the Covid epidemic.
The only people who died during the Spanish Flu were the ones who were vaccinated.

[golfing eagles]

v19 shot is not FDA approved /testing through out the world .. ..
just take care of your self let the others do the same..
improve your immune system with the correct vitamins .. and breathe ..

Let's see-----protect yourself with a proven, safe, highly effective vaccine against a deadly virus, or........take your Geritol once a day. Hmmmmm, I've made my decision

[golfing eagles]

The only people who died during the Spanish Flu were the ones who were vaccinated.

Very interesting. What vaccine???????

[Eg_cruz]

I am sorry for your illness. Do what makes you feel safe. The vaccine is NOT A CURE.. you can still get Covid but its less of a killer. No maskers and no vaxxers will learn one day, sadly someone has to care for them when they are sick, but they care not for others but themselves. A sad world and this Virus has shown folk in their true colors.
Give me a break…….so people who don’t want to jump on the testing party bus are selfish.
I wish you people would just stop already, it is passed old already.

[Boomer]

The only people who died during the Spanish Flu were the ones who were vaccinated.

wow. . .just wow. . .

There was a time on TOTV when I would have seen this as sarcasm or even a little satire, but now. . .(shudder). . .

[JMintzer]

Let's see-----protect yourself with a proven, safe, highly effective vaccine against a deadly virus, or........take your Geritol once a day. Hmmmmm, I've made my decision

I'm going with this... I mean, if you can't trust Lucy...

https://media4.giphy.com/media/3o6EhYQeIroUPqtnOM/200.gif

[villageuser]

Thanks, I believe I gathered that. But even IF his physician is an oncologist, and IF he was only seeing patients with active disease, there is no concrete evidence that the vaccine is substantially less effective in those with hematologic malignancies, over and above the immunosuppression that goes with those disorders, and certainly not at 1000 times the national rate in general.

Actually, I just read today that studies are now showing that if you’ve had cancer, your immunity level is close to 0 and to continue wearing masks. So, yes, an oncologist would be seeing a higher incidence of this happening than a general doctor.

[golfing eagles]

Actually, I just read today that studies are now showing that if you’ve had cancer, your immunity level is close to 0 and to continue wearing masks. So, yes, an oncologist would be seeing a higher incidence of this happening than a general doctor.

Try reading my post #12

[JMintzer]

I zoned out at "Haematological"... Damn British... Speak English, fer chrissakes! ;)

[golfing eagles]

I zoned out at "Haematological"... Damn British... Speak English, fer chrissakes! ;)

It's from "The Lancet", not "The New England Journal of Medicine". Sometimes we have to accept second best:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Bay Kid]

Let's keep the sky falling.

[Leadbone1]

Ridiculous! Tens of thousands of deaths have been blamed on Covid that were clearly from other causes. X amount of people are going to remain paranoid no matter what! It’s sad!

[Becca9800]

The Hippocratic Oath hanging on my wall states the obligation of physicians to teach others, which is why I attempt to set the record straight when I see posts that need correcting.

Let's see-----protect yourself with a proven, safe, highly effective vaccine against a deadly virus, or........take your Geritol once a day. Hmmmmm, I've made my decision

Dare I say, you aren't teaching others via your second quote, your "teachings" there may/may not be true. You are expressing YOUR opinion. The vaccine isn't proven yet, it's been out less than 1 year. Every day new info, good and bad, becomes known. The vaccine is showing really good results, and some potentially bad results, but it definitely isn't proven yet. If it were, it would be fully approved by the FDA. Because you are a physician many folks will assume what you say is THE truth. There are physicians out there held in equal esteem, some deserving much more respect on the issue, who disagree w your opinion that this vaccine is proven or safe.

[toeser]

According to the CDC, as of April 30th, out of 101 million fully vaccinated individuals, there were 10,262 breakthrough cases (=0.01%). Of these approx. 10% were hospitalized (1,026) and 2% died (205= .0002%). According to the CDC, "many" of the deaths were UNRELATED to COVID-19.

So, assuming your doctor has an average practice of 2000 patients and half of them were fully vaccinated (reasonable assumptions), he would have had 10/1000 contract COVID after vaccination (50 times the national rate) and 2/1000 die (0.2% or 1000 times the national rate). Something doesn't sound right at all.

I suspect what isn't right is the CDC statistics.

[toeser]

I gathered that as well. All I did was comment that , on the face of it, the numbers just didn't sound right.

I didn't even get into the fact that the OP wearing a mask does almost nothing to protect him

RespoKare masks kill the virus. FDA approved.

[drstevens]

The Vaccine Adverse Effects Reporting System VAERS information is available at The COVID Blog - Official blog of COVID Legal USA. Vaccines are the leading cause of coincidences. Stay Vigilant. (http://www.thecovidblog.com)

[J1ceasar]

Well just to respond to the guy actually below talking about statistics, everyone eventually dies. And since the doctor himself did not know the cause of death and just probably knew that they never came back I can presume that he presumed it was covid. The best protection rates with the vaccinated are 95% effective, I believe it' moderna . Since I would say 90% of the seniors in our area are now vaccinated but only 50% of other adults between 18 and around 50 or vaccinated, you still have a chance of getting covid. Is the person above me has stated it's a very small chance but it's still a chance I don't want to take myself. Wearing a mask is a very small step for protection and I don't understand why so many people are going maskless. It's kind of like swimming in a lake in Florida, you may not get eaten by a gator but they're still a pretty good chance you will get eaten by a gator so I take that risk. By the way the average is one person per year dying by a gator in Florida and 5 to 6 people being bitten by a gator in Florida every year. Almost as much as being hit by a golf ball in The villages!

[J1ceasar]

Everyone's opinion is exactly that, if you don't want to read the opinion please skip to the next one. As the saying goes statistics are great as you can make them say whatever you want. Here's a question for you which kills more people in the US every year alligators or soda machines?

[Irishmen]

According to the CDC, as of April 30th, out of 101 million fully vaccinated individuals, there were 10,262 breakthrough cases (=0.01%). Of these approx. 10% were hospitalized (1,026) and 2% died (205= .0002%). According to the CDC, "many" of the deaths were UNRELATED to COVID-19.

So, assuming your doctor has an average practice of 2000 patients and half of them were fully vaccinated (reasonable assumptions), he would have had 10/1000 contract COVID after vaccination (50 times the national rate) and 2/1000 die (0.2% or 1000 times the national rate). Something doesn't sound right at all.

Yes something doesn't sound right start with "according to the CDC" wrong about masks distancing and just about everything else. Folks like this want you continually scared and afraid. Probably gets a woody seeing you frightened.

[Irishmen]

Well just to respond to the guy actually below talking about statistics, everyone eventually dies. And since the doctor himself did not know the cause of death and just probably knew that they never came back I can presume that he presumed it was covid. The best protection rates with the vaccinated are 95% effective, I believe it' moderna . Since I would say 90% of the seniors in our area are now vaccinated but only 50% of other adults between 18 and around 50 or vaccinated, you still have a chance of getting covid. Is the person above me has stated it's a very small chance but it's still a chance I don't want to take myself. Wearing a mask is a very small step for protection and I don't understand why so many people are going maskless. It's kind of like swimming in a lake in Florida, you may not get eaten by a gator but they're still a pretty good chance you will get eaten by a gator so I take that risk. By the way the average is one person per year dying by a gator in Florida and 5 to 6 people being bitten by a gator in Florida every year. Almost as much as being hit by a golf ball in The villages!

How small of particles does your mask "strain"? What is size of virus? Thanks! If I were you I'd wear 17 masks just in case.

[Pat2015]

Thanks, I believe I gathered that. But even IF his physician is an oncologist, and IF he was only seeing patients with active disease, there is no concrete evidence that the vaccine is substantially less effective in those with hematologic malignancies, over and above the immunosuppression that goes with those disorders, and certainly not at 1000 times the national rate in general.

New studies have shown that people who take immune suppressant drugs and have been fully vaccinated are testing negative for Covid antibodies thus they’ve obtained zero protection against Covid like an unvaccinated person. Couple that with having cancer it’s understandable that deaths will occur. Question though is did they die from Covid or with Covid? Either way the vaccines are still being studied and we’re all a part of the ongoing clinical study from which it’s recently been determined that there are people who are vaccinated who have not received any benefit from the vaccines.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Was at the doctors today and he was telling me that 10 of his vaccinated patients got sick and 2 died. The vaccine is not mixing well with certain blood cancers, mine being one of them. So moving forward I was told to take all precautions as if I never had the vaccine. So status quo for me.

I have a friend who is in treatment for cancer and I truly understand and support your efforts. We all should do what is appropriate for ourselves.

[merrymini]

Fauci is a liar.
The who and cdc are liars.
You are the guinea pig in this experiment.
China is lying about the chinese flu.
600,000 people did not die of covid, the death numbers do not support this.
Believing the garbage you see and read means you are behaving foolishly.
Start thinking critically, if you have enough brain matter to do so.

[Garywt]

Did the other patients get sick because of getting the vaccine or did they get Covid and die because the vaccine was not effective for them?

Because of our weakened immune system the vaccine did not work in many patients fighting cancer. That said, my doctor told me to act as if I was not vaccinated even though I was.

[Waltdisney4life]

Two masks are better than one, fivemasks are better than two so to feels safe 10 masks should work!������

[Swoop]

What I find interesting, is that the CDC made the determination that anyone who died who tested positive with Covid, or was suspected to have had Covid, was to be considered a Covid death. But now that they are reporting the number of breakthrough cases of vaccinated people who have been hospitalized or died with Covid, they are specifically segmenting out those where Covid wasn’t the primary cause of death. Funny they didn’t make that distinction for the last year and a half when listing the total number of Covid deaths…

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Meanwhile for the rest of us, if we see some random guy walking around with his mask on and attempting to maintain a social distance, don't laugh at him or criticize him or challenge his choice to do so. Instead, honor it, and don't get too physically close to him unless he invites you to do so.

Sorry you're still in mask mode, OP. Hopefully you'll be able to reduce that need more and more as the threat of virus recedes!

[Gray lady of the sea]

Please do whatever is recommended for your particular condition.

For EVERYONE ELSE -
We humans were not meant to live in a bubble. When a person lives in a bubble - they leave - and get everything floating around — - just like children when they leave home and go to school. THEY catch everything. They then build their immune system. We were meant to live amongst germs. That is how we build an immune system. We are going to see lots of determined mask wearers take them off -- get colds and more. Our bodies are working hard to build back our immune response . I am a nurse. I’ve studied this for years. We are going to hear about A LOT illnesses. Be prepared

[PugMom]

Fauci is a liar.
The who and cdc are liars.
You are the guinea pig in this experiment.
China is lying about the chinese flu.
600,000 people did not die of covid, the death numbers do not support this.
Believing the garbage you see and read means you are behaving foolishly.
Start thinking critically, if you have enough brain matter to do so.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:MOJE_whot:

[tuccillo]

The number might be a bit high. Through the end of February 2021, it could be as high as 500,000. See below from the CDC regarding excess deaths (total number of deaths, from any cause, above what is expected). An approximately 18% jump in expected deaths did not happen for no reason. Some of the excess deaths could be indirectly related to COVID-19. It may be a couple of years before all the data is properly analyzed.

During January 26, 2020–February 27, 2021, an estimated 545,600–660,200 more persons than expected died in the United States from all causes (Figure). The estimated number of excess deaths peaked during the weeks ending April 11, 2020, August 1, 2020, and January 2, 2021. Approximately 75%–88% of excess deaths were directly associated with COVID-19. Excluding deaths directly associated with COVID-19, an estimated 63,700–162,400 more persons than expected died from other causes.


600,000 people did not die of covid, the death numbers do not support this.

[PugMom]

The number might be a bit high. Through the end of February 2021, it could be as high as 500,000. From the CDC regarding excess deaths (total number of deaths, from any cause, above what is expected):

During January 26, 2020–February 27, 2021, an estimated 545,600–660,200 more persons than expected died in the United States from all causes (Figure). The estimated number of excess deaths peaked during the weeks ending April 11, 2020, August 1, 2020, and January 2, 2021. Approximately 75%–88% of excess deaths were directly associated with COVID-19. Excluding deaths directly associated with COVID-19, an estimated 63,700–162,400 more persons than expected died from other causes.

the elephant in the room is we are being advised by people who are known liars. they have been caught thru exposed emails, hot mic's & false death certificates. how can anyone expect the masses to go along with what they say? i admire Golfing Eagles, the guy is a wealth of knowledge, and pose this question to him: have you heard or read the report of the spiked proteins somehow settling in the brain & possibly related to tau-proteins??

[Swoop]

The number might be a bit high. Through the end of February 2021, it could be as high as 500,000. See below from the CDC regarding excess deaths (total number of deaths, from any cause, above what is expected). An approximately 18% jump in expected deaths did not happen for no reason.

During January 26, 2020–February 27, 2021, an estimated 545,600–660,200 more persons than expected died in the United States from all causes (Figure). The estimated number of excess deaths peaked during the weeks ending April 11, 2020, August 1, 2020, and January 2, 2021. Approximately 75%–88% of excess deaths were directly associated with COVID-19. Excluding deaths directly associated with COVID-19, an estimated 63,700–162,400 more persons than expected died from other causes.
According to the CDC:

“Because of the time needed to investigate certain causes of death and to process and review data, final annual mortality data for a given year are typically released 11 months after the end of the calendar year.”

Mortality figures listed for 2020 are not the the actual numbers, they are “provisional” according to the CDC…

[kendi]

Not all masks are the same. Some even split your droplets into smaller particles which allows them to stay in the air longer. Covering the face is a psychological comfort. ESP since few know how to take them on and off without contaminating themselves.

[tuccillo]

What does this have to do with what I posted about excess deaths?

the elephant in the room is we are being advised by people who are known liars. they have been caught thru exposed emails, hot mic's & false death certificates. how can anyone expect the masses to go along with what they say? i admire Golfing Eagles, the guy is a wealth of knowledge, and pose this question to him: have you heard or read the report of the spiked proteins somehow settling in the brain & possibly related to tau-proteins??

[tuccillo]

Yes, the paragraph I posted from the CDC had a range of numbers because they don't have the final numbers yet. They also used words such as "estimated" and "approximately". I thought that was pretty obvious.

According to the CDC:

“Because of the time needed to investigate certain causes of death and to process and review data, final annual mortality data for a given year are typically released 11 months after the end of the calendar year.”

Mortality figures listed for 2020 are not the the actual numbers, they are “provisional” according to the CDC…

[Swoop]

Yes, the paragraph I posted from the CDC had a range of numbers because they don't have the final numbers yet. They also used words such as "estimated" and "approximately". I thought that was pretty obvious.
This quote is taken directly from the CDC website:
“The COVID-19 pandemic caused approximately 375,000 deaths in the United States during 2020”

[tuccillo]

Yes, and a bunch of people have also died in 2021. The paragraph I posted from the CDC was through the end of February 2021 and the estimated excess deaths attributed to COVID was as much as 500,000 for the period. As I already stated, it could be a couple of years for a final, comprehensive analysis.

This quote is taken directly from the CDC website:
“The COVID-19 pandemic caused approximately 375,000 deaths in the United States during 2020”

[Spalumbos62]

You should really shut your mouth when you don’t know but we all know you can’t. When you have cancer you put 100% trust into your doctor so when you get the call that an appointment has been set for your vaccine, you go. You don’t question it or anything. My guess is 100% of his patients got the shot. Also he might have been meaning his teams patients or the practices patients but 10 came down with COVID after being vaccinated and 2 of the 10 died. Now people that don’t believe and think Trump made it all up can’t understand all these people dying.



What does Trump have to do with anything in this thread.

[Pat2015]

Well just to respond to the guy actually below talking about statistics, everyone eventually dies. And since the doctor himself did not know the cause of death and just probably knew that they never came back I can presume that he presumed it was covid. The best protection rates with the vaccinated are 95% effective, I believe it' moderna . Since I would say 90% of the seniors in our area are now vaccinated but only 50% of other adults between 18 and around 50 or vaccinated, you still have a chance of getting covid. Is the person above me has stated it's a very small chance but it's still a chance I don't want to take myself. Wearing a mask is a very small step for protection and I don't understand why so many people are going maskless. It's kind of like swimming in a lake in Florida, you may not get eaten by a gator but they're still a pretty good chance you will get eaten by a gator so I take that risk. By the way the average is one person per year dying by a gator in Florida and 5 to 6 people being bitten by a gator in Florida every year. Almost as much as being hit by a golf ball in The villages!

Wore the mask for 18 mths, so yeah it is a big deal to keep wearing one! Going maskless now as fully vaccinated and participating in the ongoing clinical study! Also CDC now says that Halloween is over.

[Spalumbos62]

Dare I say, you aren't teaching others via your second quote, your "teachings" there may/may not be true. You are expressing YOUR opinion. The vaccine isn't proven yet, it's been out less than 1 year. Every day new info, good and bad, becomes known. The vaccine is showing really good results, and some potentially bad results, but it definitely isn't proven yet. If it were, it would be fully approved by the FDA. Because you are a physician many folks will assume what you say is THE truth. There are physicians out there held in equal esteem, some deserving much more respect on the issue, who disagree w your opinion that this vaccine is proven or safe.



Blah,blah, blah.....

[PugMom]

What does this have to do with what I posted about excess deaths?

because some one was killed (sadly) on 301 last year in a motorcycle crash. the family fought the death certificate that listed covid. these stories go on & on: a villager near us passed, & the same thing. their spouse is disputing the cause of death diagnosed again as covid, but they in fact did not succumb to it

[Ftallmadge]

Was at the doctors today and he was telling me that 10 of his vaccinated patients got sick and 2 died. The vaccine is not mixing well with certain blood cancers, mine being one of them. So moving forward I was told to take all precautions as if I never had the vaccine. So status quo for me.
Thank you for posting, I currently have cancer so this post interested me. So I looked it up from the CDC


COVID-19 Vaccines in People with Cancer (https://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatments-and-side-effects/physical-side-effects/low-blood-counts/infections/covid-19-vaccines-in-people-with-cancer.html)

[Spalumbos62]

Yes something doesn't sound right start with "according to the CDC" wrong about masks distancing and just about everything else. Folks like this want you continually scared and afraid. Probably gets a woody seeing you frightened.


Wow...that was a childish comment.....

[Spalumbos62]

Fauci is a liar.
The who and cdc are liars.
You are the guinea pig in this experiment.
China is lying about the chinese flu.
600,000 people did not die of covid, the death numbers do not support this.
Believing the garbage you see and read means you are behaving foolishly.
Start thinking critically, if you have enough brain matter to do so.

Lol, lol.....is this a serious forum..or the Sunday funnies?

[tuccillo]

I do believe you have missed the point. The reason to look at excess deaths is because the cause of death doesn't matter. Excess deaths is the number of deaths, regardless of cause, above what is expected. The number of deaths each year is a remarkably predictable number. Since COVID was the extraordinary event of the last 18 months, a high percentage of the excess deaths can be attributed to COVID-19. Some estimates are in the 80% range. This is a better way to get a grasp on the extent of COVID-19 deaths than arguing about each and every death certificate.

because some one was killed (sadly) on 301 last year in a motorcycle crash. the family fought the death certificate that listed covid. these stories go on & on: a villager near us passed, & the same thing. their spouse is disputing the cause of death diagnosed again as covid, but they in fact did not succumb to it

[Carol Fiore]

I know 3 people who died from the shot. Right after the second shot, my girlfriend got sick, now she has heart problems. Who is really keeping track because the doctor say, you didn't get sick from the shot. My brother died in his sleep a week ago. After the second shot he got sick. The doctors put him on an antibiotic and he got better for a few days then got sicker. They increased his antibiotic and he died 2 days later. Did the shot cause it? Who knows. Everyone who got sick in the past year, they said it was the virus. Now when someone dies after the shot, they are not counting all these people. It always another cause. I don't know if I can believe the numbers. Some people reacted bad to the virus where some people it didn't effect them. It is the same with the shot. This is a heartbreaking time for families who lost their love ones. My prayers are with everyone.

[Gray lady of the sea]

Thank you !

[Becca9800]

Lol, lol.....is this a serious forum..or the Sunday funnies?

I get it, you disagree and nothing will change your mind. No worries, and really no need for you to respond in the disrespectful ways you have, def not helpful to anyone. But I think this has been a useful discussion, if not to you, to those that are immunosuppressed and unaware of the recent findings.

[Swoop]

I do believe you have missed the point. The reason to look at excess deaths is because the cause of death doesn't matter. Excess deaths is the number of deaths, regardless of cause, above what is expected. The number of deaths each year is a remarkably predictable number. Since COVID was the extraordinary event of the last 18 months, a high percentage of the excess deaths can be attributed to COVID-19. Some estimates are in the 80% range. This is a better way to get a grasp on the extent of COVID-19 deaths than arguing about each and every death certificate.
Based on the projected deaths for 2020 and the provisional death numbers for 2020 provided by the CDC, there were 419,534 “excess” deaths in the US in 2020. If 80% could be attributed to Covid, that would be 335,627 Covid deaths. Since the majority of Covid deaths involved people who were already unhealthy, the numbers should average back out over the next few years.

[Becca9800]

This link is to a YouTube discussion between 3 noteworthy experts, one of whom is the founder of the mRNA technology, Robert Malone MD. Has anyone heard their opinions from our mainstream media?

Adverse Side Effects from COVID Vaccines - Dangerous Intersection (https://dangerousintersection.org/2021/06/10/adverse-side-effects-from-covid-vaccines/)

[ffresh]

Wow...that was a childish comment.....

I noticed you had one above in post# 76 :ohdear:

[PugMom]

I do believe you have missed the point. The reason to look at excess deaths is because the cause of death doesn't matter. Excess deaths is the number of deaths, regardless of cause, above what is expected. The number of deaths each year is a remarkably predictable number. Since COVID was the extraordinary event of the last 18 months, a high percentage of the excess deaths can be attributed to COVID-19. Some estimates are in the 80% range. This is a better way to get a grasp on the extent of COVID-19 deaths than arguing about each and every death certificate.

my bad, point taken

[alehew]

According to the CDC, as of April 30th, out of 101 million fully vaccinated individuals, there were 10,262 breakthrough cases (=0.01%). Of these approx. 10% were hospitalized (1,026) and 2% died (205= .0002%). According to the CDC, "many" of the deaths were UNRELATED to COVID-19.

So, assuming your doctor has an average practice of 2000 patients and half of them were fully vaccinated (reasonable assumptions), he would have had 10/1000 contract COVID after vaccination (50 times the national rate) and 2/1000 die (0.2% or 1000 times the national rate). Something doesn't sound right at all.

I would quit listening to the cdc, fauci and anyone that gives you stats they have already stated its not accurate

[Velvet]

I would quit listening to the cdc, fauci and anyone that gives you stats they have already stated its not accurate

And, who, may I ask, has the exact, precise, incontrovertible data about Covid, anywhere in the US or the world?

[Pachine58]

Only N95 have a 99.5% chance of stopping virus. All others are worthless, gives a sense of false security and lowers your oxygen levels

[Bill14564]

Based on the projected deaths for 2020 and the provisional death numbers for 2020 provided by the CDC, there were 419,534 “excess” deaths in the US in 2020. If 80% could be attributed to Covid, that would be 335,627 Covid deaths. Since the majority of Covid deaths involved people who were already unhealthy, the numbers should average back out over the next few years.

Ah, the "just thinning the herd early" explanation. Of course, you could extend that to other high-casualty events from recent history:

Hurricane Katrina killed about 1,800 people but that really wasn't a tragedy, those people would have died anyway and the numbers averaged back out over the next few years.

About 3,000 died on 9/11 but we can stop worrying about that now, those people would have died anyway and the numbers have averaged out by now.

And as usual, your numbers are low. At the CDC link I've provided in several previous posts the data shows the number of excess deaths in 2020 to be 586,955. Taking your 80% you would get 469,564 but, as you assert, those people would have died anyway so the numbers will average out over time. The fact that they all died early and in a single year doesn't seem to matter.

(Yes, the 2020 death counts are provisional and are expected to change as more accurate data arrives. In fact, seeing that the number increased from 583,877 in mid May and 553,471 in mid April, there does seem to be a trend.)

But if your 80% number is at all accurate then what about the other 20%? What can the other 117,931 deaths be attributed to? Rounding error??? And then someone is going to say that there were no flu deaths last year so what did those 34,000 die of?

Covid wasn't a mass extinction event and didn't bring about the end of the free world. However, it was significant and those that died deserve more than being told they were unhealthy anyway and the numbers will average out over the next few years.

[Ben Franklin]

I invite the "don't wear a mask" people to meet at Sumter Landing and take off your clothes. If wearing a mask takes away your freedom, then doesn't being forced to wear clothes do the same thing, especially since there is no naked pandemic? ;-)

OP, wear your mask, if it makes you feel comfortable. Ignore others who tell you otherwise.

[golfing eagles]

Dare I say, you aren't teaching others via your second quote, your "teachings" there may/may not be true. You are expressing YOUR opinion. The vaccine isn't proven yet, it's been out less than 1 year. Every day new info, good and bad, becomes known. The vaccine is showing really good results, and some potentially bad results, but it definitely isn't proven yet. If it were, it would be fully approved by the FDA. Because you are a physician many folks will assume what you say is THE truth. There are physicians out there held in equal esteem, some deserving much more respect on the issue, who disagree w your opinion that this vaccine is proven or safe.

Care to name them?????

BTW, it doesn't take years to prove a vaccine's efficacy, in fact, it's ALREADY PROVEN by virtue of the 0.01 % breakthrough rate in the first 141 million vaccinated, so it IS DEFINITELY PROVEN already. FDA approval has absolutely nothing to do with it, that is a bureaucratic process. (God only knows why I bother to debate amateurs).

Now, if you want to take exception to the term safe, and then only on the small possibility that some bad adverse effects may occur much later, then yes, we don't know that yet

[golfing eagles]

the elephant in the room is we are being advised by people who are known liars. they have been caught thru exposed emails, hot mic's & false death certificates. how can anyone expect the masses to go along with what they say? i admire Golfing Eagles, the guy is a wealth of knowledge, and pose this question to him: have you heard or read the report of the spiked proteins somehow settling in the brain & possibly related to tau-proteins??

I'll address that. No, I haven't seen that report.

However, keep in mind there will be thousands of "reports" like that on a wide variety of COVID related topics. They are usually anecdotal or small poorly controlled studies done by candidates for a doctorate in pharmacy or molecular biology in their dissertation. Pay attention to the double blinded, placebo controlled, multi-centered prospective studies on at least 2500 patients, these will generally yield the best results.

[tuccillo]

445,000 to 660,000 excess deaths from Jan 2020 through February 2021 as per the CDC. The number is still in flux. See post #66.

Yes, the number of expected deaths should drop over the next couple of years since many people died prematurely.


Based on the projected deaths for 2020 and the provisional death numbers for 2020 provided by the CDC, there were 419,534 “excess” deaths in the US in 2020. If 80% could be attributed to Covid, that would be 335,627 Covid deaths. Since the majority of Covid deaths involved people who were already unhealthy, the numbers should average back out over the next few years.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Only N95 have a 99.5% chance of stopping virus. All others are worthless, gives a sense of false security and lowers your oxygen levels

This is not entirely accurate, N95 is the only mask that is certified to stop 99.5% in the US.

Other masks are also certified to that standard in other countries.

[Becca9800]

Care to name them?????

BTW, it doesn't take years to prove a vaccine's efficacy, in fact, it's ALREADY PROVEN by virtue of the 0.01 % breakthrough rate in the first 141 million vaccinated, so it IS DEFINITELY PROVEN already. FDA approval has absolutely nothing to do with it, that is a bureaucratic process. (God only knows why I bother to debate amateurs).

Now, if you want to take exception to the term safe, and then only on the small possibility that some bad adverse effects may occur much later, then yes, we don't know that yet

Too funny. This amateur has no desire to debate you, I stick to what I know. What I know is that an internist is not an expert in virology or epidemiology. Am I wrong? And your education 40+ years ago in same just ain't going to hold water today. Agreed? And the medical journal articles you have read are available to the public in some format or another on the web. We all have access to the same info. I simply pointed out a couple of facts you didn't care for and then you reduced yourself to name-calling, another attempt to project "don't listen to her, I'm the doctor" (as you thumped your chest). I have already posted a be-all, end-all expert who disagrees w you on your proven and safe hypothesis (see #86, I believe). But here, I'll give it to you again, in the spirit of cooperation. Adverse Side Effects from COVID Vaccines - Dangerous Intersection (https://dangerousintersection.org/2021/06/10/adverse-side-effects-from-covid-vaccines/)

[golfing eagles]

Too funny. This amateur has no desire to debate you, I stick to what I know. What I know is that an internist is not an expert in virology or epidemiology. Am I wrong? And your education 40+ years ago in same just ain't going to hold water today. Agreed? And the medical journal articles you have read are available to the public in some format or another on the web. We all have access to the same info. I simply pointed out a couple of facts you didn't care for and then you reduced yourself to name-calling, another attempt to project "don't listen to her, I'm the doctor" (as you thumped your chest). I have already posted a be-all, end-all expert who disagrees w you on your proven and safe hypothesis (see #86, I believe). But here, I'll give it to you again, in the spirit of cooperation. Adverse Side Effects from COVID Vaccines - Dangerous Intersection (https://dangerousintersection.org/2021/06/10/adverse-side-effects-from-covid-vaccines/)

I agree , too funny.

You post a link to that well respected time honored medical journal, "Dangerous Intersections":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

And the biggest laugh----"available to the public in some format or another on the web. We all have access to the same info." to which I will simply reply:

[Becca9800]

I agree , too funny.

You post a link to that well respected time honored medical journal, "Dangerous Intersections":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

And the biggest laugh----"available to the public in some format or another on the web. We all have access to the same info." to which I will simply reply:

I'm not surprised you wouldn't watch, not surprised at all. I predicted you would take issue with the source vs. actually listening to the doctor who discovered the mRNA technology. If only our media would allow all opinions to be heard, you'd see Dr Malone on air at least as frequently as Dr. Fauci. I bet you don't think there is censoring happening either. It is a sad world..... when leaders in our medical profession have become so narrow-minded they won't even listen to the experts.

[CFrance]

I gathered that as well. All I did was comment that , on the face of it, the numbers just didn't sound right.

I didn't even get into the fact that the OP wearing a mask does almost nothing to protect him
No, you yelled in bold print that something doesn't sound right. It's not what one says sometimes as much as it is how one says it.

[golfing eagles]

No, you yelled in bold print that something doesn't sound right. It's not what one says sometimes as much as it is how one says it.

Thank you, Miss Manners.

Mea culpa

[CFrance]

Thank you, Miss Manners.

Mea culpa
You're very welcome!:icon_wink:

[golfing eagles]

You're very welcome!:icon_wink:

Anytime. Still luv ya:icon_wink:

[Byte1]

The OP only said that some folks that were patients of their doctor died after receiving their vaccinations. It was not stipulated whether or not they died from the vaccination or from Covid. It did not say they died from Covid, period. The OP was not clear about the cause of death, but they were patients of an Oncologist, right?

Note: I have not read through all the posts yet, so I may have missed an update of additional information.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The only people who died during the Spanish Flu were the ones who were vaccinated.

There was no vaccine when the Spanish Flu hit in 1918. There are 500 million people killed in four successive waves of the flu, between 1918 and 1920. That was around a third of the planet's population at the time. There was no Spanish Flu vaccine. There were a number of private physicians who developed their own vaccines, some of which killed their patients, some which did nothing, some which had no known effect one way or another. MOST of the world was unvaccinated since the vaccine didn't exist.

[jimjamuser]

The latest CDC number show percentages are now a little higher. 139 million fully vaccinated, 3,459 breakthrough hospitalizations with 603 deaths.
I read in the NY Times that 10% of new cases is the DELTA variant, more contagious and more DEADLY. It is estimated that because of DELTA and many states opening completely recently that cases will tick up. And in the fall with schools and other factors, cases could tick up again as unvaccinated people get CV.

[jimjamuser]

I am sorry for your illness. Do what makes you feel safe. The vaccine is NOT A CURE.. you can still get Covid but its less of a killer. No maskers and no vaxxers will learn one day, sadly someone has to care for them when they are sick, but they care not for others but themselves. A sad world and this Virus has shown folk in their true colors.
Some experts state that CV has changed the world - as in a before CV world and an after CV world. Also, we have yet to get to THAT AFTER CV WORLD.

[golfing eagles]

There was no vaccine when the Spanish Flu hit in 1918. There are 500 million people killed in four successive waves of the flu, between 1918 and 1920. That was around a third of the planet's population at the time. There was no Spanish Flu vaccine. There were a number of private physicians who developed their own vaccines, some of which killed their patients, some which did nothing, some which had no known effect one way or another. MOST of the world was unvaccinated since the vaccine didn't exist.

All true, but it was more like 50-100 million, not 1/3 of the world's population. Still devastating, but not apocalyptic

[Swoop]

Ah, the "just thinning the herd early" explanation. Of course, you could extend that to other high-casualty events from recent history:

Hurricane Katrina killed about 1,800 people but that really wasn't a tragedy, those people would have died anyway and the numbers averaged back out over the next few years.

About 3,000 died on 9/11 but we can stop worrying about that now, those people would have died anyway and the numbers have averaged out by now.

And as usual, your numbers are low. At the CDC link I've provided in several previous posts the data shows the number of excess deaths in 2020 to be 586,955. Taking your 80% you would get 469,564 but, as you assert, those people would have died anyway so the numbers will average out over time. The fact that they all died early and in a single year doesn't seem to matter.

(Yes, the 2020 death counts are provisional and are expected to change as more accurate data arrives. In fact, seeing that the number increased from 583,877 in mid May and 553,471 in mid April, there does seem to be a trend.)

But if your 80% number is at all accurate then what about the other 20%? What can the other 117,931 deaths be attributed to? Rounding error??? And then someone is going to say that there were no flu deaths last year so what did those 34,000 die of?

Covid wasn't a mass extinction event and didn't bring about the end of the free world. However, it was significant and those that died deserve more than being told they were unhealthy anyway and the numbers will average out over the next few years.
Per the CDC: “In 2020, approximately 3,358,814 deaths occurred in the United States”. The projected death rate for the US for 2020 was 8.88. The population of the US is 331 million. So the projected number of deaths in the US in 2020 was 2,939,280. The difference of 419,534 is the “excess” number of deaths.

According to the CDC, those who died with Covid-19 predominantly had more that two of either; heart disease, lung disease, hypertension or diabetes. They were typically older with compromised immune systems. That’s why states like NY or PA that forced nursing homes to accept Covid positive patients faired so poorly. While states like FL, despite having one of the oldest populations in the country, did much better.

[Villageswimmer]

Why would you say that. An oncologist does not treat a patient for COVID. He is an awesome doctor and has kept me alive for 8 years. Multiple Myeloma is an incurable cancer that I live with. Been on chemo for 8 years now.

I’m very sorry you are dealing with this. Of course, listen to your doctor and not the internet “experts.” I hope you are doing well. God bless you.

[Worldseries27]

America's friendliest home town village until we address one another.
Why is that?

[kimmerlie]

A group of Florida parents cultured their children’s masks and found dangerous bacteria

[Bill14564]

Per the CDC: “In 2020, approximately 3,358,814 deaths occurred in the United States”. The projected death rate for the US for 2020 was 8.88. The population of the US is 331 million. So the projected number of deaths in the US in 2020 was 2,939,280. The difference of 419,534 is the “excess” number of deaths.

According to the CDC, those who died with Covid-19 predominantly had more that two of either; heart disease, lung disease, hypertension or diabetes. They were typically older with compromised immune systems. That’s why states like NY or PA that forced nursing homes to accept Covid positive patients faired so poorly. While states like FL, despite having one of the oldest populations in the country, did much better.

Per the CDC, the actual (not projected, not assumed, not imagined, not desired, but actually counted) number of deaths in 2019 was 2,845,793.

This was 14,000 more than 2018 and 40,000 more than 2017 so let's guess an average of 20,000 more deaths expected from one year to the next. This would give an expected death count of 2,865,793 for 2020.

Per the CDC, that actual (not projected, not assumed, not imagined, not desired, but actually counted) number of deaths in 2020 was 3,432,748. Now yes, this number is not final yet but over the last two months the number has been increasing, not decreasing.

So 3,432,748 - 2,865,793 = 566,955 excess deaths in 2020 even after assuming an annual increase of 20,000.

As for which lives can be cut short without concern because they "predominantly had more than two of either..." I'll stay out of that game. All 567,000 (yes, rounding) who died prematurely mattered.

[Bill14564]

A group of Florida parents cultured their children’s masks and found dangerous bacteria

Did they also culture their kitchen counters, light switches, door handles, or soap dispensers? What did they find in those places?

[EdFNJ]

Ridiculous! Tens of thousands of deaths have been blamed on Covid that were clearly from other causes. X amount of people are going to remain paranoid no matter what! It’s sad!LMAO, OK, so let's assume your "tens of thousands" were 120,000 or 20%. That leaves around 480,000 that actually were DEAD FROM COVID according to your "statistics". Does that make covid better because "only" 480,000 ACTUALLY died from the virus? Even if your "10's of thousands" were 50%. Does that make Covid "just a nuisance" like a cold? Even at 50% 300,000 have died from COVID of which many of the deaths arguably could have been prevented. So how many dead people make covid only like a bad cold? I guess you'll next say "it wasn't Covid at all, it was the flu that killed 600,000. :ohdear: Maybe it really was space lasers that killed all those people, or those pesky Italian satellites that changed all the heart attack deaths to covid deaths on all the nations health department records.

[Swoop]

Per the CDC, the actual (not projected, not assumed, not imagined, not desired, but actually counted) number of deaths in 2019 was 2,845,793.

This was 14,000 more than 2018 and 40,000 more than 2017 so let's guess an average of 20,000 more deaths expected from one year to the next. This would give an expected death count of 2,865,793 for 2020.

Per the CDC, that actual (not projected, not assumed, not imagined, not desired, but actually counted) number of deaths in 2020 was 3,432,748. Now yes, this number is not final yet but over the last two months the number has been increasing, not decreasing.

So 3,432,748 - 2,865,793 = 566,955 excess deaths in 2020 even after assuming an annual increase of 20,000.

As for which lives can be cut short without concern because they "predominantly had more than two of either..." I'll stay out of that game. All 567,000 (yes, rounding) who died prematurely mattered.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89860&stc=1&d=1623881936

[manaboutown]

There was no vaccine when the Spanish Flu hit in 1918. There are 500 million people killed in four successive waves of the flu, between 1918 and 1920. That was around a third of the planet's population at the time. There was no Spanish Flu vaccine. There were a number of private physicians who developed their own vaccines, some of which killed their patients, some which did nothing, some which had no known effect one way or another. MOST of the world was unvaccinated since the vaccine didn't exist.

My father who was born in 1898 contracted the Spanish Flu and survived. He was almost 94 when he died.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

A group of Florida parents cultured their children’s masks and found dangerous bacteria

If you think that's bad, don't culture your own teeth. What you'll find is scary.

[Pairadocs]

According to the CDC, as of April 30th, out of 101 million fully vaccinated individuals, there were 10,262 breakthrough cases (=0.01%). Of these approx. 10% were hospitalized (1,026) and 2% died (205= .0002%). According to the CDC, "many" of the deaths were UNRELATED to COVID-19.

So, assuming your doctor has an average practice of 2000 patients and half of them were fully vaccinated (reasonable assumptions), he would have had 10/1000 contract COVID after vaccination (50 times the national rate) and 2/1000 die (0.2% or 1000 times the national rate). Something doesn't sound right at all.

As a research academic geek type, I was thinking the very same thing ! I also ran the stats as you did, came up with nearly same figures. Something IS REALLY MISSING from this doctor's, or villages, stats, that is for sure. Not sure what it is, could be some variables are unstated ? Or, even unknown ? But yes, something is wrong about this. Hope all will discuss with their doctors, the thought of going through the rest of life in a mask would be daunting, but, if it must be it must be. I wonder if the REAL death rate from Covid is this huge in The V's ? You never hear how many per day or week are still dying from it do you ? News reported cruise ship with fully vaccinated crew had 19 members developed Covid.... must to discover yet about all this. Could they have had active Covid at the same time they were being vaccinated ? I fear we are going to be learning more and more int he future, some may not be good news !

[sallyg]

Sorry for your diagnosis. Hope you do well with treatment.
Your post is a good reminder that mask wearing is not political. Take care.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

My father who was born in 1898 contracted the Spanish Flu and survived. He was almost 94 when he died.

That's great that he survived it. Has nothing to do with my post, which was in response to someone who insists that the *only* people who died from it were vaccinated. Even though - there was no vaccine for Spanish Flu that millions of people took. Just more fiction on this forum.

[Pairadocs]

Thanks, I believe I gathered that. But even IF his physician is an oncologist, and IF he was only seeing patients with active disease, there is no concrete evidence that the vaccine is substantially less effective in those with hematologic malignancies, over and above the immunosuppression that goes with those disorders, and certainly not at 1000 times the national rate in general.

Agree, but, I hold the belief that people need to do what makes them feel safe and confident, I believe it is a fundamental for good mental health and this pandemic really made that so obvious. The amount and degree to which people began to argue with others over things like wearing "cute" masks made of cotton fabric, was amazing. Yet, such masks made some people feel protected, others felt safe and protected by wearing full face shields made of plastic. It became so obvious over these months of the unknown, that is was so important for people to at least feel they were doing "something" to feel safe. Frankly I believe we have a lot yet to learn about this particular "plague", so while I personally have had nothing in my education that tells me a home made cotton fabric mask protects from any type of microbe, I would never try to convince others to adopt my opinion. Seems there is a awful lot of that type of thing on social media already. Do what makes you feel happy and confident.

[Pairadocs]

Sorry for your diagnosis. Hope you do well with treatment.
Your post is a good reminder that mask wearing is not political. Take care.

Yes, wishing you the very best and a complete recovery; follow YOUR doctor's suggestions (if you have faith in him/her of course) and ignore remarks and suggestions of others. You need to do what is best for YOU, others need to decide their own path. ALL individual's deserve more respect than some pay them.... so many seem to feel confident ONLY if they can get you to do what they do ! LOL ! !

[golfing eagles]

As a research academic geek type, I was thinking the very same thing ! I also ran the stats as you did, came up with nearly same figures. Something IS REALLY MISSING from this doctor's, or villages, stats, that is for sure. Not sure what it is, could be some variables are unstated ? Or, even unknown ? But yes, something is wrong about this. Hope all will discuss with their doctors, the thought of going through the rest of life in a mask would be daunting, but, if it must be it must be. I wonder if the REAL death rate from Covid is this huge in The V's ? You never hear how many per day or week are still dying from it do you ? News reported cruise ship with fully vaccinated crew had 19 members developed Covid.... must to discover yet about all this. Could they have had active Covid at the same time they were being vaccinated ? I fear we are going to be learning more and more int he future, some may not be good news !

Yes, but if you look at the excerpt from the Lancet that I posted in #12, it is possible that an oncologist with a patient population of mostly immunocompromised patients could have a breakthrough rate up to 100x the general population, so his statement could be accurate

[JMintzer]

I read in the NY Times that 10% of new cases is the DELTA variant, more contagious and more DEADLY. It is estimated that because of DELTA and many states opening completely recently that cases will tick up. And in the fall with schools and other factors, cases could tick up again as unvaccinated people get CV.

There's a new variant called the DELTA variant?

Gee, I wish someone had brought that info to everyone's attention...

[JMintzer]

Those harping on the increased death rate should look at the chart in post #125...

Yes, we've seen a slow creep in the increase in per capita deaths. It's been going on for 6-7 years. Well before covid...

What could possibly be the cause of the creep? Oh, I dunno'... Maybe all of the Baby Boomers reaching the age where death is a distinct possibility?

The largest population bubble in history is now 60-75+ years old... Nah, that can't possibly be it...

[coffeebean]

Not all masks are the same. Some even split your droplets into smaller particles which allows them to stay in the air longer. Covering the face is a psychological comfort. ESP since few know how to take them on and off without contaminating themselves.

Very true of those neck gators. That was established very early on in this pandemic. Even wearing double thickness neck gators, they split droplets into much smaller aerosols. And to think.....many sports teams use neck gators with their logos on them. I never understood why.