Federal Holiday

[dnptrll]

A radio announcer said yesterday that the addition of Juneteenth as a paid Federal Holiday makes a total of 48/year. That means that Federal employees get a total of over 9 weeks of paid holidays every year. Can that be correct?

[Mrprez]

No. It’s not. Currently, federal employees get 10 paid holidays and now 11.

Holidays Work Schedules and Pay (https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/holidays-work-schedules-and-pay)

[TJ SoBos]

So, does the new holiday today mean no mail delivery today???

[retiredguy123]

If you include sick leave, 13 days, vacation, 26 days (for those with 15 years of service), and holidays, 11, it comes to 50 days off. And, the day after Thanksgiving is often added as a day off, by the President.

[retiredguy123]

So, does the new holiday today mean no mail delivery today???
The actual holiday was Friday because June 19 is on a weekend. But, the Post Office decided to deliver mail on Friday and Saturday this year. But, in the future, the normal schedule is to not deliver mail on holidays.

[PugMom]

i read that too. i don't mind it, another day to celebrate :coolsmiley:

[DAVES]

i read that too. i don't mind it, another day to celebrate :coolsmiley:

Jealousy perhaps? I for one am tired of paying for it. Juneteeth? Fair we could have a holiday for every race, creed religion and there would be no time to work or do anything.
I with no choice pay every quarter.

[golfing eagles]

Jealousy perhaps? I for one am tired of paying for it. Juneteeth? Fair we could have a holiday for every race, creed religion and there would be no time to work or do anything.
I with no choice pay every quarter.

No comment.

Actually one----When are we going to declare a Federal holiday in honor of the ancient Egyptian god Osiris? Definitely would be more interesting than this one

[Irishmen]

No comment.

Actually one----When are we going to declare a Federal holiday in honor of the ancient Egyptian god Osiris? Definitely would be more interesting than this one

I'm good with it. Now another excuse for a big fat juicy red ribeye on the grill.

[retiredguy123]

Jealousy perhaps? I for one am tired of paying for it. Juneteeth? Fair we could have a holiday for every race, creed religion and there would be no time to work or do anything.
I with no choice pay every quarter.
Every Federal office I ever "worked" in was so overstaffed that all the essential work was done by about 20 percent of the employees. The other 80 percent either did no work or just got in the way. Adding another holiday will have no affect on productivity or cost.

[Stu from NYC]

This is getting out of hand.

What about good old RA?

[Taltarzac725]

What Is Juneteenth? African American History Blog | The African Americans: Many Rivers to Cross (https://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-americans-many-rivers-to-cross/history/what-is-juneteenth/)

I thought there was a month about Black History? February.

African American History Month (https://www.africanamericanhistorymonth.gov/)

[Neils]

When are the special holidays for American Indians? Italian Americans, Asian Americans, Latino Americans?

[Taltarzac725]

When are the special holidays for American Indians? Italian Americans, Asian Americans, Latino Americans?

Various states probably have one or more of these listed above.

For example-- Native American Day - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_Day)

[GrumpyOldMan]

I for one think it is about time to have a Federal Holiday celebrating Grumpy Old Men! I was going to say, grumpy old people, or grumpy old women too - but, naw, we don't want to do that. Before long women might get all uppity and want to vote too.

[Bogie Shooter]

Why don’t those that are objecting to the new holiday…….come out and say what you really mean?

[RedChariot]

This is getting out of hand.

What about good old RA?

Definitely getting out of hand. How about a Federal holiday to honor the 6 million Jews murdered by the German Nazi regime, or a Federal holiday of shame for what was done to the Native Indians by the US government? I could go on but I think you get the message. Juneteenth ?

[golfing eagles]

Definitely getting out of hand. How about a Federal holiday to honor the 6 million Jews murdered by the German Nazi regime, or a Federal holiday of shame for what was done to the Native Indians by the US government? I could go on but I think you get the message. Juneteenth ?

Couldn't agree more. We already have a totally contrived Federal holiday along these lines, it occurs the third week in January.

[Taltarzac725]

Couldn't agree more. We already have a totally contrived Federal holiday along these lines, it occurs the third week in January.

January 2021 National Day Holidays - National Day Calendar (https://nationaldaycalendar.com/january/)

They certainly have a lot of days in January for something-- National Beer Can Appreciation Day, for instance. BEER CAN APPRECIATION DAY - January 24 - National Day Calendar (https://nationaldaycalendar.com/beer-can-appreciation-day-january-24/)

[tvbound]

Why don’t those that are objecting to the new holiday…….come out and say what you really mean?

Because it's so obvious, but they're afraid to just be honest about it?

[tvbound]

I for one think it is about time to have a Federal Holiday celebrating Grumpy Old Men! I was going to say, grumpy old people, or grumpy old women too - but, naw, we don't want to do that. Before long women might get all uppity and want to vote too.

If the female vote were to become too threatening to a specific group, state laws can always be promulgated to make it harder for them to vote.

[Paper1]

Why don’t those that are objecting to the new holiday…….come out and say what you really mean?
There is a cost to be paid for paying people not to work. That bill is coming due soon.

[Irishmen]

Because it's so obvious, but they're afraid to just be honest about it?

Towns are cancelling July 4th celebrations trading for this new holiday is all we need to know. Erasing history part of cultural revolution ending in millions dead and millions enslaved...

[eremite06]

Every Federal office I ever "worked" in was so overstaffed that all the essential work was done by about 20 percent of the employees. The other 80 percent either did no work or just got in the way. Adding another holiday will have no affect on productivity or cost.

Ahhh!, a socialist utopia!!:a040:

[Dana1963]

Towns are cancelling July 4th celebrations trading for this new holiday is all we need to know. Erasing history part of cultural revolution ending in millions dead and millions enslaved...
Another BS statement and you're stuck with St Patty's Day

[Ben Franklin]

A radio announcer said yesterday that the addition of Juneteenth as a paid Federal Holiday makes a total of 48/year. That means that Federal employees get a total of over 9 weeks of paid holidays every year. Can that be correct?

I think you have Congressman and Senators in mind, not the workers.

[Irishmen]

Another BS statement and you're stuck with St Patty's Day

over the target.

[Ben Franklin]

Ahhh!, a socialist utopia!!:a040:

Actually, TV land is the socialist utopia, as a quasi-government controls everything, and no one can opt out, plus the builder doesn't have to pay for the full amount of impact they cause. They just make everyone pay for it.

I'm not complaining, just being realistic. If I was upset with this, I'd move.

[mamamia54]

Randolph, New Jersey removed ALL holiday names from the school year. It will now be called a day off.

[manaboutown]

Anyone celebrate "Eat Your Vegetables Day" on June 17? NATIONAL EAT YOUR VEGETABLES DAY - June 17, 2021 | National Today (https://nationaltoday.com/national-eat-vegetables-day/)

[Stu from NYC]

I think you have Congressman and Senators in mind, not the workers.

Congress and the Senate work very hard collecting funds to pay for their next campaign.

Too busy to write the laws they are paid to introduce so they let the companies that have bought them do the writing.

[Stu from NYC]

Because it's so obvious, but they're afraid to just be honest about it?

I think we have enough national holidays.

More days off mean companies will have to hire more people to do work not done on holidays increasing costs for no good reason.

Were you thinking I am thinking this for racist reasons? Sorry my economics degree tells me why this is not a good idea

[blueash]

Yes of course the objection is that this is about Black citizens and celebrates their end of centuries of slavery. Nothing for for the KKK to celebrate there. And the comment on this thread that THEY already have a holiday for MLK only makes it too clear what the objection really is about.

How about all those Christian holidays? How about if we are not going to favor groups we stop favoring that one? Easter, Xmas, Thanksgiving all religious holidays. If you want to understand how the early Americans understood the separation of church and state, look no further than the US Post office and how it handled the question of Sunday deliveries.

" In 1828, the Kentucky Senator Richard M. Johnson, chairman of the Senate Committee on the Post Office and Post Roads and a devout Baptist, declared any federal attempt to give preference to the Christian Sabbath to be unconstitutional. The line between church and state when it came to Sunday mail delivery, he argued, "cannot be too strongly drawn."

I admit I had never heard of Juneteenth until recently. I had never heard of the Tulsa massacre or the similar one here in Central Florida until the last few years. Funny how we didn't learn about so much of the real history of America growing up. Maybe as we learn more about how it really happened we will find things worth celebrating, like Juneteenth that are not all about WASP events.

[Bill14564]

Towns are cancelling July 4th celebrations trading for this new holiday is all we need to know. Erasing history part of cultural revolution ending in millions dead and millions enslaved...

What towns have cancelled July 4th celebrations in order to celebrate Juneteenth?

(google didn't tell me about any)

[GrumpyOldMan]

Towns are cancelling July 4th celebrations trading for this new holiday is all we need to know. Erasing history part of cultural revolution ending in millions dead and millions enslaved...

Actually, we need to know which towns. Or maybe there aren't any?

[retiredguy123]

Yes of course the objection is that this is about Black citizens and celebrates their end of centuries of slavery. Nothing for for the KKK to celebrate there. And the comment on this thread that THEY already have a holiday for MLK only makes it too clear what the objection really is about.

How about all those Christian holidays? How about if we are not going to favor groups we stop favoring that one? Easter, Xmas, Thanksgiving all religious holidays. If you want to understand how the early Americans understood the separation of church and state, look no further than the US Post office and how it handled the question of Sunday deliveries.

" In 1828, the Kentucky Senator Richard M. Johnson, chairman of the Senate Committee on the Post Office and Post Roads and a devout Baptist, declared any federal attempt to give preference to the Christian Sabbath to be unconstitutional. The line between church and state when it came to Sunday mail delivery, he argued, "cannot be too strongly drawn."

I admit I had never heard of Juneteenth until recently. I had never heard of the Tulsa massacre or the similar one here in Central Florida until the last few years. Funny how we didn't learn about so much of the real history of America growing up. Maybe as we learn more about how it really happened we will find things worth celebrating, like Juneteenth that are not all about WASP events.
To clarify, Easter is not a Federal holiday and Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday.

[golfing eagles]

To clarify, Easter is not a Federal holiday and Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday.

And her whole post was a crock

[Rango]

How about a holiday from this “thread”.

[manaboutown]

Poll: Most Americans Are Not Confident Juneteenth Should Be A Federal Holiday (https://thefederalist.com/2021/06/17/poll-most-americans-are-not-confident-juneteenth-should-be-a-federal-holiday/?fbclid=IwAR34I3K3YRvubeoga_KanJsdW2wa0xlFgfVTv5qy ffiu--blTNxQB3ZOt_U)

[Ben Franklin]

Poll: Most Americans Are Not Confident Juneteenth Should Be A Federal Holiday (https://thefederalist.com/2021/06/17/poll-most-americans-are-not-confident-juneteenth-should-be-a-federal-holiday/?fbclid=IwAR34I3K3YRvubeoga_KanJsdW2wa0xlFgfVTv5qy ffiu--blTNxQB3ZOt_U)

Actually, the article said 35% for, 25 against, and "at least 40 percent of those surveyed said they weren’t sure whether it should be federally implemented or they were simply [were] unfamiliar with the holiday and its origins."

Let's do some educating. White men became free, after mobs started attacking British owned corporations, and towns, beginning as early as the Boston Tea Party, where mobs of white people attacked several ships, owned by British corporations on taxation issues, and culminated with the The Battle of Yorktown, and then became a free country for white men on 7-4-1776.

Black people were not freed until 2.5 years after the Civil War, in some southern states. Federal troops had to be called to Texas in order to free them, on June 19 1865. The last known lynching of a black man was in 1981, yes, 1981. Juneteenth celebrates their freedom.

What's there to understand?

[manaboutown]

Actually, the article said 35% for, 25 against, and "at least 40 percent of those surveyed said they weren’t sure whether it should be federally implemented or they were simply [were] unfamiliar with the holiday and its origins."

Let's do some educating. White men became free, after mobs started attacking British owned corporations, and towns, beginning as early as the Boston Tea Party, where mobs of white people attacked several ships, owned by British corporations on taxation issues, and culminated with the The Battle of Yorktown, and then became a free country for white men on 7-4-1776.

Black people were not freed until 2.5 years after the Civil War, in some southern states. Federal troops had to be called to Texas in order to free them, on June 19 1865. The last known lynching of a black man was in 1981, yes, 1981. Juneteenth celebrates their freedom.

What's there to understand?

Free African Americans Before the Civil War (National Institute • FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Free_African_Americans_Before_the_Civil_War_(Natio nal_Institute))

Anthony Johnson (colonist - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_(colonist))

[Ben Franklin]

Free African Americans Before the Civil War (National Institute • FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Free_African_Americans_Before_the_Civil_War_(Natio nal_Institute))

Anthony Johnson (colonist - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_(colonist))

What are you trying to say?

[manaboutown]

Black people were not freed until 2.5 years after the Civil War, in some southern states

There were free black people living in the United States, including Southern states, prior to the Civil War. In fact the American Revolution for which we celebrate Independence Day freed blacks, Amerindians and whites from British rule.

The Civil War ended slavery in the South but not all blacks living in the South were slaves.

The Free Black Population | African American History and Culture (https://courses.lumenlearning.com/atd-fscj-africanamericanhistory/chapter/the-free-black-population/)

[karostay]

Bull****

[golfing eagles]

Actually, the article said 35% for, 25 against, and "at least 40 percent of those surveyed said they weren’t sure whether it should be federally implemented or they were simply [were] unfamiliar with the holiday and its origins."

Let's do some educating. White men became free, after mobs started attacking British owned corporations, and towns, beginning as early as the Boston Tea Party, where mobs of white people attacked several ships, owned by British corporations on taxation issues, and culminated with the The Battle of Yorktown, and then became a free country for white men on 7-4-1776.

Black people were not freed until 2.5 years after the Civil War, in some southern states. Federal troops had to be called to Texas in order to free them, on June 19 1865. The last known lynching of a black man was in 1981, yes, 1981. Juneteenth celebrates their freedom.

What's there to understand?

And all that is fine. Slavery of all types was an abomination. My understanding was than 6/19 was the day that slaves in specifically Galveston, Texas were informed that they were free. Also fine.

My question is whether this event should rise to the level of a national holiday?

Is it as important, in the scheme of history of ALL Americans as 7/4/1776??? Is it as important as Memorial Day, honoring those who died for America (including a very large number of white and some black men that died to free slaves). Is it as important as honoring ALL veterans. Is it as important as Washington and Lincoln? (which by the way were combined to one holiday about 45-50 years ago to keep the number of federal holidays the same after they instituted MLK day)

How about we create a national holiday to celebrate the day that an Irish indentured servant in colonial America was informed his 7 year contract was up and he was free. How about a day to celebrate Japanese-Americans being informed they no long had to stay in internment camps?

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. I think (my opinion only) that national holidays should celebrate a person or event of great significance to all Americans, not just 12% of the population. After all, 10% of Americans play golf, so where is that national holiday?????

[gdennis317]

Jealousy perhaps? I for one am tired of paying for it. Juneteeth? Fair we could have a holiday for every race, creed religion and there would be no time to work or do anything.
I with no choice pay every quarter.
Has to do with the end of hundreds of years of Slavery in a Country where “ all men are created equal”, not for just an ethnic group.

[Stu from NYC]

And all that is fine. Slavery of all types was an abomination. My understanding was than 6/19 was the day that slaves in specifically Galveston, Texas were informed that they were free. Also fine.

My question is whether this event should rise to the level of a national holiday?

Is it as important, in the scheme of history of ALL Americans as 7/4/1776??? Is it as important as Memorial Day, honoring those who died for America (including a very large number of white and some black men that died to free slaves). Is it as important as honoring ALL veterans. Is it as important as Washington and Lincoln? (which by the way were combined to one holiday about 45-50 years ago to keep the number of federal holidays the same after they instituted MLK day)

How about we create a national holiday to celebrate the day that an Irish indentured servant in colonial America was informed his 7 year contract was up and he was free. How about a day to celebrate Japanese-Americans being informed they no long had to stay in internment camps?

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. I think (my opinion only) that national holidays should celebrate a person or event of great significance to all Americans, not just 12% of the population. After all, 10% of Americans play golf, so where is that national holiday?????

Very well said.

[Bogie Shooter]

Some posts are great examples of whataboutisms.

[JMintzer]

Yes of course the objection is that this is about Black citizens and celebrates their end of centuries of slavery. Nothing for for the KKK to celebrate there. And the comment on this thread that THEY already have a holiday for MLK only makes it too clear what the objection really is about.

How about all those Christian holidays? How about if we are not going to favor groups we stop favoring that one? Easter, Xmas, Thanksgiving all religious holidays. If you want to understand how the early Americans understood the separation of church and state, look no further than the US Post office and how it handled the question of Sunday deliveries.

" In 1828, the Kentucky Senator Richard M. Johnson, chairman of the Senate Committee on the Post Office and Post Roads and a devout Baptist, declared any federal attempt to give preference to the Christian Sabbath to be unconstitutional. The line between church and state when it came to Sunday mail delivery, he argued, "cannot be too strongly drawn."

I admit I had never heard of Juneteenth until recently. I had never heard of the Tulsa massacre or the similar one here in Central Florida until the last few years. Funny how we didn't learn about so much of the real history of America growing up. Maybe as we learn more about how it really happened we will find things worth celebrating, like Juneteenth that are not all about WASP events.


WE? I've known about both of these forever...

Maybe YOU should get out more...

And yes, of course anyone complaining about another Federal Holiday is "racist"... :rolleyes:

[Ben Franklin]

There were free black people living in the United States, including Southern states, prior to the Civil War. In fact the American Revolution for which we celebrate Independence Day freed blacks, Amerindians and whites from British rule.

The Civil War ended slavery in the South but not all blacks living in the South were slaves.

The Free Black Population | African American History and Culture (https://courses.lumenlearning.com/atd-fscj-africanamericanhistory/chapter/the-free-black-population/)

"Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857), was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court in which the Court held that the US Constitution was not meant to include American citizenship for black people, regardless of whether they were enslaved or free, and so the rights and privileges that the Constitution confers upon American citizens could not apply to them."

Sure, there were some free blacks, but they couldn't be citizens, and in the south, they were only counted as 3/5ths of a human being for Representation purposes, giving the south more power.

I believe government can only exist, morally, if all people can vote, since people give government the right to exist. It's a shame they never made Susan B Anthony a national holiday, although Florida recognizes it as one.

[JMintzer]

Sure, there were some free blacks, but they couldn't be citizens, and in the south, they were only counted as 3/5ths of a human being for Representation purposes, giving the south more power.

No, that was put in by the Northern States to diminish the South's "population" and power...

[kcrazorbackfan]

Another Federal holiday for me! 👍👍

[manaboutown]

"Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857), was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court in which the Court held that the US Constitution was not meant to include American citizenship for black people, regardless of whether they were enslaved or free, and so the rights and privileges that the Constitution confers upon American citizens could not apply to them."

Sure, there were some free blacks, but they couldn't be citizens, and in the south, they were only counted as 3/5ths of a human being for Representation purposes, giving the south more power.

I believe government can only exist, morally, if all people can vote, since people give government the right to exist. It's a shame they never made Susan B Anthony a national holiday, although Florida recognizes it as one.

"During the 1787 Philadelphia convention a compromise was proposed between northern states which only wanted to count free blacks in congressional apportionment (ignoring slave populations), and slave states which wanted full counting of the slave population. The compromise counted slave populations on the ratio of three-fifths, while free blacks were not subject to the compromise and counted as one full citizen for representation.[17] Due to this compromise Southern states could count three-fifths of their slave populations toward the state populations for purposes of Congressional apportionment and the electoral college. This additional counting of the slave population resulted in those states having political power in excess of the white voting population. The South dominated the national government and the presidency for years. Congress adopted legislation that favored slaveholders, such as permitting slavery in territories as the nation began to expand to the West. The Fugitive Slave Act of 1793 was strengthened by the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850, part of the Compromise of 1850, requiring even the governments and residents of free states to enforce the capture and return of fugitive slaves. Famous fugitives such as Frederick Douglass and Sojourner Truth gained the support of white abolitionists to purchase their freedom, to avoid being captured and returned to the South and slavery.[15]:84–85 In 1857, the ruling of Dred Scott v. Sandford effectively denied citizenship to black people of all statuses.[15]:85"

From: Free Negro - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Negro)

"This Supreme Court decision attempted to settle the legal status of slaves in free territories to avert a civil war, but it provoked one instead. Dred Scott, who was born a slave in Missouri, traveled with his master to the free territory of Illinois. As a result, Scott later sued his master for freedom, which the lower courts usually granted. However, when the case reached the U.S. Supreme Court, it ruled that Scott would remain a slave because as such he was not a citizen and could not legally sue in the federal courts. Moreover, in the words of Chief Justice Roger Taney, black people free or slave could never become U. S. citizens and they “had no rights which the white man was bound to respect.” The dissenting justices pointed out that in some states people of color were already considered citizens when the Constitution was ratified In 1868, the Fourteenth Amendment overturned the Dred Scott decision by granting citizenship to all those born in the United States, regardless of color."

From: Dred Scott v. Sanford | Equality and the 14th Amendment | Constitution USA | PBS (https://www.pbs.org/tpt/constitution-usa-peter-sagal/equality/dred-scott-v-sandford/)

[EdFNJ]

My understanding was than 6/19 was the day that slaves in specifically Galveston, Texas were informed that they were free. Also fine.

Close but not quite correct. June 19th was when the LAST SLAVES WHO HADN'T BEEN PREVIOUSLY INFORMED were informed they were free. It was 2 years AFTER the official proclamation. (I know you like to use large fonts to make a point. :D ) Likely the internet and email hadn't yet been invented so it took 2 years to get the info..

LINK TO COMMENT BELOW (https://www.wvnstv.com/top-stories/what-is-juneteenth-and-why-is-it-so-important/)
Juneteenth is celebrated on June 19. On that day in 1865, union soldiers brought news to the last slaves in Galveston, Texas that they were free. However, President Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation two years prior to Juneteenth.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Jealousy perhaps? I for one am tired of paying for it. Juneteeth? Fair we could have a holiday for every race, creed religion and there would be no time to work or do anything.
I with no choice pay every quarter.

Hey why not. We already have Christmas, which is exclusively a christian holiday. And don't forget lots of people normally work on Sundays, except Easter is a christian holiday and many employees get the day off anyway. Good Friday - another Christian holiday that people get paid for. And let us always bear in mind that ALL Sundays are considered holidays, in the work world. The christian day of rest. Even the post office works on Saturdays.

So if you want to complain about a holiday to celebrate the end to slavery in the USA, and categorize it as another "specialty" paid day off, how about we just eliminate christmas, good friday, easter sunday, ALL sundays. Force people to work rotating schedules so everyone is stuck working on a sunday, all government offices open 7 days a week.

We could go that route if you really want to. I've been against mandatory christmas closings for decades.

[Topspinmo]

Every Federal office I ever "worked" in was so overstaffed that all the essential work was done by about 20 percent of the employees. The other 80 percent either did no work or just got in the way. Adding another holiday will have no affect on productivity or cost.


I disagree, I worked for federal government for 40 years and few months, it’s around 30% that has to carry the 70% due to nepotism.

[Topspinmo]

Hey why not. We already have Christmas, which is exclusively a christian holiday. And don't forget lots of people normally work on Sundays, except Easter is a christian holiday and many employees get the day off anyway. Good Friday - another Christian holiday that people get paid for. And let us always bear in mind that ALL Sundays are considered holidays, in the work world. The christian day of rest. Even the post office works on Saturdays.

So if you want to complain about a holiday to celebrate the end to slavery in the USA, and categorize it as another "specialty" paid day off, how about we just eliminate christmas, good friday, easter sunday, ALL sundays. Force people to work rotating schedules so everyone is stuck working on a sunday, all government offices open 7 days a week.

We could go that route if you really want to. I've been against mandatory christmas closings for decades.

Good Friday not paid federal holiday. Unless you work for federal government you probably don’t get most those day off let alone paid for it.

[retiredguy123]

Good Friday not paid federal holiday. Unless you work for federal government you probably don’t get most those day off let alone paid for it.
Correct. Good Friday is not a Federal holiday. The only Federal Christian holiday is Christmas, which is also celebrated by many non-Christians who celebrate Christmas because of the huge commercial benefit, and, of course, Santa Claus comes on that day.

[Taltarzac725]

Channel 9 presents Race and Reform in Central Florida town hall: How to watch – WFTV (https://www.wftv.com/news/local/orange-county/channel-9-presents-race-reform-central-florida-town-hall-how-watch/SW5F3GJLF5FHROUVEDHUIEBIWM/)

Watched this tonight and found it interesting.

I hope they make it accessible to others.

[Topspinmo]

Hey why not. We already have Christmas, which is exclusively a christian holiday. And don't forget lots of people normally work on Sundays, except Easter is a christian holiday and many employees get the day off anyway. Good Friday - another Christian holiday that people get paid for. And let us always bear in mind that ALL Sundays are considered holidays, in the work world. The christian day of rest. Even the post office works on Saturdays.

So if you want to complain about a holiday to celebrate the end to slavery in the USA, and categorize it as another "specialty" paid day off, how about we just eliminate christmas, good friday, easter sunday, ALL sundays. Force people to work rotating schedules so everyone is stuck working on a sunday, all government offices open 7 days a week.

We could go that route if you really want to. I've been against mandatory christmas closings for decades.


Sorry, the federal government employees has very strong union Which fully support certain party to get union benefits ( you know kinda like teachers union) and that will never happen.

[Mrprez]

Sorry, the federal government employees has very strong union Which fully support certain party to get union benefits ( you know kinda like teachers union) and that will never happen.

Just to be clear, not all federal employees are eligible to be in a union. My wife is a retired federal worker, she worked for the U.S. Courts and there were no union workers. The courthouse security officers are union, but they are not federal employees. They operate under a private contract for the US Marshall’s Service.

I’d also like to add that she worked her butt off and deserves every benefit she receives in her retirement.

[Billy1]

I for one think it is about time to have a Federal Holiday celebrating Grumpy Old Men! I was going to say, grumpy old people, or grumpy old women too - but, naw, we don't want to do that. Before long women might get all uppity and want to vote too.
The United States Army rode in and freed the slaves, we have a wonderful military. Lets celebrate.

[tsmall22204]

Where do people get their ridiculous information from?

[J1ceasar]

Randolph, New Jersey removed ALL holiday names from the school year. It will now be called a day off.
Great .

[J1ceasar]

1% also pay 35% of ALL income taxes . Top 5% - 50% . Don't complain..

[kenoc7]

It is so sad to see so many mean spirited posts in this thread that show no appreciation of American history.

[christine J Toft]

Yes of course the objection is that this is about Black citizens and celebrates their end of centuries of slavery. Nothing for for the KKK to celebrate there. And the comment on this thread that THEY already have a holiday for MLK only makes it too clear what the objection really is about.

How about all those Christian holidays? How about if we are not going to favor groups we stop favoring that one? Easter, Xmas, Thanksgiving all religious holidays. If you want to understand how the early Americans understood the separation of church and state, look no further than the US Post office and how it handled the question of Sunday deliveries.

" In 1828, the Kentucky Senator Richard M. Johnson, chairman of the Senate Committee on the Post Office and Post Roads and a devout Baptist, declared any federal attempt to give preference to the Christian Sabbath to be unconstitutional. The line between church and state when it came to Sunday mail delivery, he argued, "cannot be too strongly drawn."

I admit I had never heard of Juneteenth until recently. I had never heard of the Tulsa massacre or the similar one here in Central Florida until the last few years. Funny how we didn't learn about so much of the real history of America growing up. Maybe as we learn more about how it really happened we will find things worth celebrating, like Juneteenth that are not all about WASP events.
Thank You for some Truth.

[FromNY]

Marin Luther King deserves a holiday. He was a gentleman and a strong leader . We combined Washington and Lincoln and threw in all the other presidents. Juneteenth is a significant date for all of America. Now if we kick Columbus to the curb it would be great. Who needs to celebrate a murderous explorer. Christmas is religious no right being a paid holiday. And do we really need an entire month devoted to Black History? Time to join hands and have every month devoted to All Americans . I am all for keeping history alive. Celebrating the accomplishments of each groups of Americans. The struggles the growth. This country was built on the backs and hard labor of People of All Races, Religion, Male, Female and other identified but not acknowledged humans. Does not matter we all bleed red!
Let's honor the history, cut the political BS and work together. Our veterans still cannot get medical care, Children go hungry and are abused, animals are abandoned, crime is often against those within the same community . People look around and try to be kind to others. We together are the future if the USA!

[SacDQ]

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

Abraham Lincoln

[Bay Kid]

I told my children to get a government job. Tons of paid holidays, slick leave, regular leave and you don't have to work very hard. Easy living.

[lindaelane]

Basically, it appears to be four weeks vacation for most (five for those there a very long time), 11 holidays (Christmas, Thanksgiving, things a majority of people have, plus two or three many do not get like President's day) and if taken, up to 13 sick days.

There is usually incentive to save sick days, and worse treatment at work to those suspected of using them unnecessarily. I think 4 weeks vacation, 11 holidays and just over 2 weeks sick if needed is fair. I know the government wastes money but I do not see it here. These should be for skilled positions, however. Unskilled work does not generally carry benefits, and the government should not pay beyond what private industry does. (Yes...I know...government contractors get more than private but this thread is not about that.)

Something I do not understand...Juneteenth is so-called because it is the Saturday in June with a number in the teens. Will it not remain a Saturday? Therefore, wouldn't the majority (not all) of federal workers have been off anyway? Or...do they get Friday since the holiday is on a weekend?

[Bay Kid]

Basically, it appears to be four weeks vacation for most (five for those there a very long time), 11 holidays (Christmas, Thanksgiving, things a majority of people have, plus two or three many do not get like President's day) and if taken, up to 13 sick days.

There is usually incentive to save sick days, and worse treatment at work to those suspected of using them unnecessarily. I think 4 weeks vacation, 11 holidays and just over 2 weeks sick if needed is fair. I know the government wastes money but I do not see it here. These should be for skilled positions, however. Unskilled work does not generally carry benefits, and the government should not pay beyond what private industry does. (Yes...I know...government contractors get more than private but this thread is not about that.)

Something I do not understand...Juneteenth is so-called because it is the Saturday in June with a number in the teens. Will it not remain a Saturday? Therefore, wouldn't the majority (not all) of federal workers have been off anyway? Or...do they get Friday since the holiday is on a weekend?

Not to worry they will take Friday or Monday. Won't pass up an extra paid day off provided by all non government workers.

[retiredguy123]

Basically, it appears to be four weeks vacation for most (five for those there a very long time), 11 holidays (Christmas, Thanksgiving, things a majority of people have, plus two or three many do not get like President's day) and if taken, up to 13 sick days.

There is usually incentive to save sick days, and worse treatment at work to those suspected of using them unnecessarily. I think 4 weeks vacation, 11 holidays and just over 2 weeks sick if needed is fair. I know the government wastes money but I do not see it here. These should be for skilled positions, however. Unskilled work does not generally carry benefits, and the government should not pay beyond what private industry does. (Yes...I know...government contractors get more than private but this thread is not about that.)

Something I do not understand...Juneteenth is so-called because it is the Saturday in June with a number in the teens. Will it not remain a Saturday? Therefore, wouldn't the majority (not all) of federal workers have been off anyway? Or...do they get Friday since the holiday is on a weekend?
They always get a day off for a holiday that occurs on a weekend. It is either a Friday or a Monday.

13 days of sick leave per year may not sound like a lot, but it can be accululated over the years. So, if you are a supervisor of long term employees, many of the employees will have the option of using an entire year of accumulated sick leave and be absent from the job any time they want. They can even use it to care for another person they know. There are many Federal employees in their 60s, 70s, and 80s, who almost never show up for work. A "for profit" business could never operate with those rules.

[Tom2172]

Government is out of control - which is why talking about government or politics is often forbidden and banned!
Politicians don’t like being questioned or second guessed by their subjects!

[jbrown132]

I bet next they will change the work week from 40 hours to 32 hours so everyone will have three day weekends.

[Ptmckiou]

Seems like an appropriate holiday to me…and a long time coming! Great!

We also need to make the National Election Day a holiday, for obvious reasons too.

[Proveone]

Jealousy perhaps? I for one am tired of paying for it. Juneteeth? Fair we could have a holiday for every race, creed religion and there would be no time to work or do anything.
I with no choice pay every quarter.

You should be more concerned about the do nothing Republican side of the Senate. Did you ever look at how many days they actually "work" - disgusting!

[Cranford61]

Government work is soul-sucking. To survive you must put your free thinking mind into a spider hole until, hopefully, when you retire, you can recreate your life. Few do.

[coconutmama]

Seems like an appropriate holiday to me…and a long time coming! Great!

We also need to make the National Election Day a holiday, for obvious reasons too.

Totally agree. Thank you

[merrymini]

Lots of bull. Another day off for the incompetent government and the hugely incompetent post office.

[Niferlou06]

11 Total. And really? You want to add sick time and vacation time which is accrued based on hours worked? Stop mixing your frustrations with civil servants and those in Congress that dont pay for health care and keep it forever. Most civil employees work very hard for what they have achieved.

[JMintzer]

You should be more concerned about the do nothing Republican side of the Senate. Did you ever look at how many days they actually "work" - disgusting!

When the house/senate are in session is set by an official calendar... It has nothing to do with either "side"...

It gives them time to go back to their home districts/states to hold town halls, meet with their constituents, etc. Same as it ever was...

But you knew that, right?

[spd2918]

Ah, another excuse to celebrate how bad some people had things in the distant past. Why do some people promote themselves as victims when they live in the most opportunistic society ever?

Its all about political power. If we can keep victimhood alive then we can make people hate each other. Angry people are easy to control.

[Carlsondm]

Jealousy perhaps? I for one am tired of paying for it. Juneteeth? Fair we could have a holiday for every race, creed religion and there would be no time to work or do anything.
I with no choice pay every quarter.
Too many holidays?
Perhaps you prefer exchanging Juneteenth for one of the other holidays.
Which one should we nix?

[Nick Kelly]

There are only about 52 weeks a year!

[Snprentice]

I agree with golfing eagles. Juneteenth does not deserve this recognition.

[Chi-Town]

Since losing Casmir Pulaski Day when moving here I welcome the Juneteenth addition.

Casimir Pulaski Day in the United States (https://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/us/casimir-pulaski-day)

[Windguy]

I think (my opinion only) that national holidays should celebrate a person or event of great significance to all Americans

OK. Fine. Let’s dump Christmas. Not all Americans have an invisible friend they worship on December 25.

But, it’s obvious you just don’t get it. Juneteenth is not a day to celebrate black people—it’s a day to celebrate an end to the abomination of slavery. Slavery was a national embarrassment. Treating some people as if they were less than human and that some lives are more important than others is disgusting, although it is clear that many here still have that mindset.

Ending slavery is something meaningful to ALL Americans and should be celebrated.

[Maryland Girl]

What towns have cancelled July 4th celebrations in order to celebrate Juneteenth?

(google didn't tell me about any)

Evanston, Ilinois, unless they have changed it back already. Google? Please.

[Maryland Girl]

OK. Fine. Let’s dump Christmas. Not all Americans have an invisible friend they worship on December 25.

But, it’s obvious you just don’t get it. Juneteenth is not a day to celebrate black people—it’s a day to celebrate an end to the abomination of slavery. Slavery was a national embarrassment. Treating some people as if they were less than human and that some lives are more important than others is disgusting, although it is clear that many here still have that mindset.

Ending slavery is something meaningful to ALL Americans and should be celebrated.

The 500,00+ deaths during the Civil War got it. Pro or con, they got it.

[Joe C.]

So we have another federal holiday that ALL AMERICANS can't identify with. Do we really need it? Or is it just paying lip service to a small minority? Most Americans either never heard of Juneteenth (not even a real word) or if they did, weren't really interested in it.
So I consider it another notch in the slow decline of the U.S.A.

I do believe in July 4th......a day to celebrate ALL AMERICANS.

[Bill14564]

Evanston, Ilinois, unless they have changed it back already. Google? Please.

Yes Google. Like it or not it is the most complete search engine today. In fact, it helped me find the information on Evanston, Illinois.

They have a great crystal ball in Evanston, Illinois. Google found articles from March and May announcing that the activities for July 4 had been cancelled. If these were canceled due to Juneteenth then Evanston knew three months before anyone else that there would be a new holiday!

Or, just maybe, Evanston canceled their July 4 activities with no thought of Juneteenth. Even the Fox News article acknowledges that the July 4 decision was made earlier in the year and based on Covid concerns.

So again, which cities canceled July 4 events in order to celebrate Juneteenth instead?

[billethkid]

Just another "notch" for the special interest groups.
Doesn't mean much, if at all, to most!

[sharonl7340]

If you include sick leave, 13 days, vacation, 26 days (for those with 15 years of service), and holidays, 11, it comes to 50 days off. And, the day after Thanksgiving is often added as a day off, by the President.

No, you are mistaken. The Friday after Thanksgiving is NOT often given to Federal Employees as a day off. Sometimes it is (that is at the discretion of the commander in chief); but most often it is considered a "liberal leave" day (which means that most everyone can take that day off using their annual leave as long as there is at least one person in the office that covers phone calls). I retired this past December and had a compressed work schedule that usually always fell on that particular Friday. When it didn't I took annual leave. I can only remember a few times that we got that Friday off by executive order.

[GrumpyOldMan]

So we have another federal holiday that ALL AMERICANS can't identify with. Do we really need it? Or is it just paying lip service to a small minority? Most Americans either never heard of Juneteenth (not even a real word) or if they did, weren't really interested in it.
So I consider it another notch in the slow decline of the U.S.A.

I do believe in July 4th......a day to celebrate ALL AMERICANS.

Thank you for speaking for me and clearing that up. I wasn't sure if I could identify with it or not.

[Topspinmo]

Another Federal holiday for me! 👍👍

Guess you’re still working? Everyday holiday for me.:duck:

[GrumpyOldMan]

Guess you’re still working? Everyday holiday for me.:duck:

I agree work is a 4 letter word

[GPGuar]

The holidays that you mention-are not federal holidays even though many if not most have those days off.

[Topspinmo]

Seems like an appropriate holiday to me…and a long time coming! Great!

We also need to make the National Election Day a holiday, for obvious reasons too.

Why? when can mail in you’re vote 3 months in advance and two days after:icon_wink:

[sharonl7340]

They always get a day off for a holiday that occurs on a weekend. It is either a Friday or a Monday.

13 days of sick leave per year may not sound like a lot, but it can be accululated over the years. So, if you are a supervisor of long term employees, many of the employees will have the option of using an entire year of accumulated sick leave and be absent from the job any time they want. They can even use it to care for another person they know. There are many Federal employees in their 60s, 70s, and 80s, who almost never show up for work. A "for profit" business could never operate with those rules.

Really? I worked for 4 federal agencies in my career and I knew very few of these people (if any). In fact I knew several employees who worked their asses off, and either died at their desk or on the weekend when they weren't on the federal clock. I actually take a offense at many of these posts tone. I earned every dollar, every benefit while I was a federal employee.

[Topspinmo]

Just to be clear, not all federal employees are eligible to be in a union. My wife is a retired federal worker, she worked for the U.S. Courts and there were no union workers. The courthouse security officers are union, but they are not federal employees. They operate under a private contract for the US Marshall’s Service.

I’d also like to add that she worked her butt off and deserves every benefit she receives in her retirement.


Very low percentage, was she in management? Contracting totally different, they get higher wages so federal government don’t have pay benefits, the contractor responsible. I had contractor working with me, knew very little about the job and got paid more than me, but I was responsible for the work, time, and his training. By the time I actually got him trained and somewhat productive the contract ended. So, yes there low percentage that can’t unionize or join. Union’s does not like contracting it limited their base.

[Mrprez]

Very low percentage, was she in management? Contracting totally different, they get higher wages so federal government don’t have pay benefits, the contractor responsible. I had contractor working with me, knew very little about the job and got paid more than me, but I was responsible for the work, time, and his training. By the time I actually got him trained and somewhat productive the contract ended. So, yes there low percentage that can’t unionize or join. Union’s does not like contracting it limited their base.

No, not management. Her official title was intake clerk.

According to this source, only 26% of federal workers are union.

Top Industries for Union Jobs in America (https://www.thebalancecareers.com/best-union-jobs-in-america-4160033)

[Travelingal702]

When are the special holidays for American Indians? Italian Americans, Asian Americans, Latino Americans?
Oh, and don't forget German-Americans

[KRMACK55]

A radio announcer said yesterday that the addition of Juneteenth as a paid Federal Holiday makes a total of 48/year. That means that Federal employees get a total of over 9 weeks of paid holidays every year. Can that be correct?
That is not true.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Really? I worked for 4 federal agencies in my career and I knew very few of these people (if any). In fact I knew several employees who worked their asses off, and either died at their desk or on the weekend when they weren't on the federal clock. I actually take a offense at many of these posts tone. I earned every dollar, every benefit while I was a federal employee.

I appreciate your service. And please don't take the comments here personally. Most complaining about the government has never worked in those jobs. Most are spouting party rhetoric - the old adage that government is the problem, not the solution.

[Topspinmo]

Really? I worked for 4 federal agencies in my career and I knew very few of these people (if any). In fact I knew several employees who worked their asses off, and either died at their desk or on the weekend when they weren't on the federal clock. I actually take a offense at many of these posts tone. I earned every dollar, every benefit while I was a federal employee.

40 years here, I seen it all. Glad to here you was honorable federal employee.:bigbow:

The 30/70 precent rule. GS employees can be on flex time. They can come an go when ever they want most days as long as the clock 8 hours on the honor system. WG employees are on clock down to minute. Which means, no coming late, breaks controlled to minute, no long lunch. No leaving end day till the exact time off clock.

[Topspinmo]

1% also pay 35% of ALL income taxes . Top 5% - 50% . Don't complain..

Yes, and it takes army of lawyers to pay less than there secretary :duck.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Evanston, Ilinois, unless they have changed it back already. Google? Please.

They cancelled the July 4 celebration because of COVID-19 concerns; it is typically expected to get a whole lot of dense volume of people all packed together with no room for social distancing even among people who want it.

Pride and Juneteenth attract much lower volume of people to each, with much more room for social distancing for anyone who wants it.

It's a practical thing, not a political thing. Well except for people who are looking for an excuse to rage against certain political ideology and use this as an excuse.

[Topspinmo]

I told my children to get a government job. Tons of paid holidays, slick leave, regular leave and you don't have to work very hard. Easy living.

Depends if you in the 30% or the 70%. You don’t want to be in the 30% if you’re a slacker.

[sail33or]

I am a lifelong Texan. We always had a BBQ on June 19th because all the Black Families did. We all got along and everybody enjoyed this day. It was very similar to Cinco De Mayo where we all had Mexican Food and had parties with Sombreros.

But I can tell you most Black Families did NOT know the significance of June 19th just like the Mexican Families could not tell you what happened on May 5th (Can you) It is NOT Mexican Independence Day.

And one more hugely IRONIC twist. I am going to say this as delicate as possible. No I will let you guess. Why do you think they say "JUNETEENTH" in the first place? We all joked about this along with our Black Co-Workers, etc. but now to say it out loud will bring the Politically Correct Police and anger the agenda driven folks.

It is the timing of the designation. Why now? We know why?

[lkagele]

Really? I worked for 4 federal agencies in my career and I knew very few of these people (if any). In fact I knew several employees who worked their asses off, and either died at their desk or on the weekend when they weren't on the federal clock. I actually take a offense at many of these posts tone. I earned every dollar, every benefit while I was a federal employee.

Really? Public employees are paid more on average than private workers. They also have better benefits both during work and afterwards during retirement. Government doesn't really worry about a budget so public jobs are typically overpaid and over-staffed. The risk of getting fired in the public sector is miniscule compared to the private sector.

Public unions (which should be outlawed, IMO) have taken advantage of no real entity with actual skin in the game on the other side of the negotiating table. All one has to do is look at the abhorrent behavior of the majority of the teacher's unions during the pandemic. They kept their teachers from working while never missing a pay check. Then, much of the stimulus money went to pay bonuses.

[Irishmen]

They cancelled the July 4 celebration because of COVID-19 concerns; it is typically expected to get a whole lot of dense volume of people all packed together with no room for social distancing even among people who want it.

Pride and Juneteenth attract much lower volume of people to each, with much more room for social distancing for anyone who wants it.

It's a practical thing, not a political thing. Well except for people who are looking for an excuse to rage against certain political ideology and use this as an excuse.

LOL practical thing.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I am a lifelong Texan. We always had a BBQ on June 19th because all the Black Families did. We all got along and everybody enjoyed this day. It was very similar to Cinco De Mayo where we all had Mexican Food and had parties with Sombreros.

But I can tell you most Black Families did NOT know the significance of June 19th just like the Mexican Families could not tell you what happened on May 5th (Can you) It is NOT Mexican Independence Day.

And one more hugely IRONIC twist. I am going to say this as delicate as possible. No I will let you guess. Why do you think they say "JUNETEENTH" in the first place? We all joked about this along with our Black Co-Workers, etc. but now to say it out loud will bring the Politically Correct Police and anger the agenda driven folks.

It is the timing of the designation. Why now? We know why?

I always understood Juneteenth represented the words June 19th. Which is the day the Union Army came to Texas to the last holdout of slavery after the Civil war and emancipated the blacks still being held as slaves there.

You can assume any meaning you want to - that is called freedom, but your assumptions don't make for facts.

[Bonnevie]

They always get a day off for a holiday that occurs on a weekend. It is either a Friday or a Monday.

13 days of sick leave per year may not sound like a lot, but it can be accululated over the years. So, if you are a supervisor of long term employees, many of the employees will have the option of using an entire year of accumulated sick leave and be absent from the job any time they want. They can even use it to care for another person they know. There are many Federal employees in their 60s, 70s, and 80s, who almost never show up for work. A "for profit" business could never operate with those rules.

not true. you would have to show proof via doctor's certificate of need to be off that long. while some people take their sick hours as soon as they accumulate, most don't. I have never seen these Federal employees that "don't show up for work". most keep their sick hours high in case they are needed. It may have changed, but when I worked for the Federal govt. I had to use sick leave for my maternity leave and that wiped out most of my hours. also, if you don't use them, when you retire you do get credit for the amount you have, so most savvy people keep as much as they can. Yes, your sick leave can be used for family care, i.e. the need to care for sick child, dying parent, a number of things but doesn't change the fact you are using the hours you accrued and should something happen to you in the future you may not have enough hours. I saw that a lot. One of my co-workers sons sustained brain injury and she blew threw her hours fast. we were allowed to donate sick hours to people in her position and we did. Many people chose to work in the government for the benefits. at one time, I could have made $35,000 more in the private sector and was called a moron for working for the govt. then the economy tanked, and I was called a parasite contributing to the debt.

[GrumpyOldMan]

not true. you would have to show proof via doctor's certificate of need to be off that long. while some people take their sick hours as soon as they accumulate, most don't. I have never seen these Federal employees that "don't show up for work". most keep their sick hours high in case they are needed. It may have changed, but when I worked for the Federal govt. I had to use sick leave for my maternity leave and that wiped out most of my hours. also, if you don't use them, when you retire you do get credit for the amount you have, so most savvy people keep as much as they can. Yes, your sick leave can be used for family care, i.e. the need to care for sick child, dying parent, a number of things but doesn't change the fact you are using the hours you accrued and should something happen to you in the future you may not have enough hours. I saw that a lot. One of my co-workers sons sustained brain injury and she blew threw her hours fast. we were allowed to donate sick hours to people in her position and we did. Many people chose to work in the government for the benefits. at one time, I could have made $35,000 more in the private sector and was called a moron for working for the govt. then the economy tanked, and I was called a parasite contributing to the debt.

You are right, but wasting your time here. People here hear ONE story about an employee that supporters their position that government employees are lazy and get away with whatever, and that confirms their views. So, it becomes a mantra to be repeated. The same as the claim that people are buying lobster with food stamps - sure one or even a few did, the other 38 million people didn't, but that doesn't stop the hair fire about all the people doing it. It's a thing - find ONE case of something bad, and rant about how the entire thing is bad.

Liberals are guilty of this too - look at Jan 6th - not all Republicans supported that, but liberals tend to blame them all.

It's like high school pep rallies, screaming and ranting on the other school. I thought by the time people retired they could grow up.

[Bill14564]

Really? Public employees are paid more on average than private workers. They also have better benefits both during work and afterwards during retirement. Government doesn't really worry about a budget so public jobs are typically overpaid and over-staffed. The risk of getting fired in the public sector is miniscule compared to the private sector.

Public unions (which should be outlawed, IMO) have taken advantage of no real entity with actual skin in the game on the other side of the negotiating table. All one has to do is look at the abhorrent behavior of the majority of the teacher's unions during the pandemic. They kept their teachers from working while never missing a pay check. Then, much of the stimulus money went to pay bonuses.

Have you ever worked for the Govt or are you just regurgitating what you heard on the television?

I have worked for the Govt and in the same field in private industry. I had better pay and comparable benefits *outside* the Govt. Some parts of the Govt still have retirements plans but they are rarely offered in private industry any more - yes, something beats nothing any day.

[Smalley]

The holiday is great but they should have canceled another day off to keep holidays from adding up. So many workers do NOT get these days off and have to pay for the federal, state workers who don't work and still get paid.

[Sharon Duemler]

A radio announcer said yesterday that the addition of Juneteenth as a paid Federal Holiday makes a total of 48/year. That means that Federal employees get a total of over 9 weeks of paid holidays every year. Can that be correct?
I was a Government employee for many years and NEVER had 48 paid holidays. As far as I can remember we celebrated New Year’s Day, Martin Luther King, President’s Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Columbus Day, Veterans Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas. When we were stationed in DC, Inauguration Day was also a holiday because every street in DC was closed for security. That’s 11. A far cry from 48. Just wanted to set the record straight.

[GrumpyOldMan]

The holiday is great but they should have canceled another day off to keep holidays from adding up. So many workers do NOT get these days off and have to pay for the federal, state workers who don't work and still get paid.

Okay, let's see if I got this right:

There are about 153 million taxpayers in the US.

The total Federal Government payroll is about $135 billion dollars annually.

That means $135,000,000,000 / 153,000,000 is about $888 (on average) per tax payer.

I am suffering over this extreme taxation, $888 of an average of $25,000, of my hard-earned income to pay for those Federal employees. So, about $3/day off is billed to the average taxpayer.

I would appreciate if anyone can point out my error here? Doesn't seem like something to get excited about considering all the actual waste in the Federal Government.

[JMintzer]

Yes, and it takes army of lawyers to pay less than there secretary :duck.

Where secretary?

[JMintzer]

Yes, and it takes army of lawyers to pay less than there secretary :duck.

Plus, the fact that you think they actually pay less than THEIR secretary is hysterical...

[kcrazorbackfan]

Guess you’re still working? Everyday holiday for me.:duck:

Correct and correct!

[chrisinva]

That alone is enough reason to work for the federal gov!

[JMintzer]

Okay, let's see if I got this right:

There are about 153 million taxpayers in the US.

The total Federal Government payroll is about $135 billion dollars annually.

That means $135,000,000,000 / 153,000,000 is about $888 (on average) per tax payer.

I am suffering over this extreme taxation, $888 of an average of $25,000, of my hard-earned income to pay for those Federal employees. So, about $3/day off is billed to the average taxpayer.

I would appreciate if anyone can point out my error here? Doesn't seem like something to get excited about considering all the actual waste in the Federal Government.


Your math is fuzzy...

You forgot that 47% of those people pay ZERO Federal Income Tax (per the IRS)...

They only pay FICA and Medicare taxes...

[Swoop]

The number of government employees at all levels has grown exponentially. When I lived in Pennsylvania, once a year our local paper listed the top three employers in our county. Over the years different manufacturers & the hospital occupied the top three spots. But about 10 years ago, that changed. Since then, the top three employers in the county were the Federal, State & local governments…

[Jokomo]

No comment.

Actually one----When are we going to declare a Federal holiday in honor of the ancient Egyptian god Osiris? Definitely would be more interesting than this one

American holidays celebrate American people and events. I assume the Osiris reference was meant as satire. I think celebrating a day when a significant number of enslaved Americans learned of their freedom is well worth celebrating. Someone once said that slavery was America’s Original Sin. I’m not sure that’s true, but it’s right up there.

[meme5x]

Ridiculous.. getting out of hand!

[Bill14564]

Okay, let's see if I got this right:

There are about 153 million taxpayers in the US.

The total Federal Government payroll is about $135 billion dollars annually.

That means $135,000,000,000 / 153,000,000 is about $888 (on average) per tax payer.

I am suffering over this extreme taxation, $888 of an average of $25,000, of my hard-earned income to pay for those Federal employees. So, about $3/day off is billed to the average taxpayer.

I would appreciate if anyone can point out my error here? Doesn't seem like something to get excited about considering all the actual waste in the Federal Government.

Some things that will complicate the equation:
- If this covers payroll only then there should be an additional calculation for benefits
- Not all taxpayers actually pay Federal Income tax
- This payroll amount might be for just the Executive branch and might not account for the amounts for Congress or the Military

Let's take your number, $3, as a lower limit and allow that it might be as much as $10. So at your number the taxpayer is buying the govt worker a soda and at the higher number the taxpayer is buying a beer.

At a reasonable salary (less than what the President makes, less than most of Congress, more than a McDonalds worker) it would take more than 50 taxpayers donating a beer or more than 160 taxpayers donating a soda to pay for just one government employee to have one day off. (If that salary is too high then just cut the number in half)

$3 or even $10 doesn't seem like much but asking 50 to 160 taxpayers to pony up that amount for just one government person to have an extra holiday makes it feel like a bit more.

I'm not against days off but it certainly is fair to ask the government to consider the cost before adding more.

[spexdr]

As was stated it’s a lot fewer but I do believe we should combine them perhaps Martin Luther King day along with Juneteenth. Another day off for federal employees means millions of dollars in tax payer money going to salaries with no production. We combined Washington and Lincoln’s birthdays to make Presidents’ Day so the precedent has been set.

[retiredguy123]

Really? I worked for 4 federal agencies in my career and I knew very few of these people (if any). In fact I knew several employees who worked their asses off, and either died at their desk or on the weekend when they weren't on the federal clock. I actually take a offense at many of these posts tone. I earned every dollar, every benefit while I was a federal employee.
I don't know what you mean by tone, but I was just stating the facts about the sick leave rules for Federal employees. If you are an employee for 20 years, you can accumulate 260 days of sick leave and 30 days of vacation time. That, added to the current year's weekends, vacation days, holidays, and sick leave, will allow the employee to be away from work for more than a year. There is no way a Federal manager can efficiently manage a project when their employees have that much flexibility in the work schedule.

As far as Federal employees working hard, they only need to work 40 hours per week and, if you want them to work longer, you must pay them overtime. It is illegal to not pay them.

[retiredguy123]

not true. you would have to show proof via doctor's certificate of need to be off that long. while some people take their sick hours as soon as they accumulate, most don't. I have never seen these Federal employees that "don't show up for work". most keep their sick hours high in case they are needed. It may have changed, but when I worked for the Federal govt. I had to use sick leave for my maternity leave and that wiped out most of my hours. also, if you don't use them, when you retire you do get credit for the amount you have, so most savvy people keep as much as they can. Yes, your sick leave can be used for family care, i.e. the need to care for sick child, dying parent, a number of things but doesn't change the fact you are using the hours you accrued and should something happen to you in the future you may not have enough hours. I saw that a lot. One of my co-workers sons sustained brain injury and she blew threw her hours fast. we were allowed to donate sick hours to people in her position and we did. Many people chose to work in the government for the benefits. at one time, I could have made $35,000 more in the private sector and was called a moron for working for the govt. then the economy tanked, and I was called a parasite contributing to the debt.
You are not correct about the doctor's certificate. The employee doesn't even need to be sick, but can use sick leave to help a friend or family member. If a manager asks for a doctor certificate, they will usually be charged with an EEO complaint for discrimination. The employee will just ask for the documentation used by other employees who took sick leave, and the manager will not have it, hence, discrimination. In 35 years as a Federal employee, I never saw a case where an employee was prevented from using any sick leave they wanted. There were even some employees who would go on sick leave for a year or so, with no intention of returning to work, and then file for their retirement. That gives them an entire extra year of pay, benefits, and longevity, before retiring.

[Nipper]

Not accurate. Check your FACTS on Federal Holidays!

[jimjamuser]

If you include sick leave, 13 days, vacation, 26 days (for those with 15 years of service), and holidays, 11, it comes to 50 days off. And, the day after Thanksgiving is often added as a day off, by the President.
You know........Germany and French citizens get something like 45 days off - and their countries are NOT falling apart because of it. (France can't get a handle on its immigration problems) Germany is still able to sell BMW and Mercedes Benz vehicles at competitive prices worldwide. Germany has Unions that HELP the companies. The US has fallen victim to propaganda that demonizes Unions - for the purpose of higher profits and HUGE salaries for UPPER-level managers and CEOs. US people and workers are JUST STUPID for allowing this to develop since 1950. Don't think it IS stupid? You as a worker could (?) be having MORE days off AND making a higher salary AND US society would be stronger and more STABLE as a result. Only a few, the CEOs and upper-income developers would have to tighten their belts. WHAT is NOT to like? And PLEASE, don't warn of a communist takeover - it NEVER happened in Germany or Australia - that's a red herring!

[GrumpyOldMan]

You know........Germany and French citizens get something like 45 days off - and their countries are NOT falling apart because of it. (France can't get a handle on its immigration problems) Germany is still able to sell BMW and Mercedes Benz vehicles at competitive prices worldwide. Germany has Unions that HELP the companies. The US has fallen victim to propaganda that demonizes Unions - for the purpose of higher profits and HUGE salaries for UPPER-level managers and CEOs. US people and workers are JUST STUPID for allowing this to develop since 1950. Don't think it IS stupid? You as a worker could (?) be having MORE days off AND making a higher salary AND US society would be stronger and more STABLE as a result. Only a few, the CEOs and upper-income developers would have to tighten their belts. WHAT is NOT to like? And PLEASE, don't warn of a communist takeover - it NEVER happened in Germany or Australia - that's a red herring!

Pretty much the way it is. Predatory capitalism has taken over the US, and the corporations are sewing fear, uncertainty, and doubt to lock in their ownership of the country and its government.

[manaboutown]

I am a lifelong Texan. We always had a BBQ on June 19th because all the Black Families did. We all got along and everybody enjoyed this day. It was very similar to Cinco De Mayo where we all had Mexican Food and had parties with Sombreros.

But I can tell you most Black Families did NOT know the significance of June 19th just like the Mexican Families could not tell you what happened on May 5th (Can you) It is NOT Mexican Independence Day.

And one more hugely IRONIC twist. I am going to say this as delicate as possible. No I will let you guess. Why do you think they say "JUNETEENTH" in the first place? We all joked about this along with our Black Co-Workers, etc. but now to say it out loud will bring the Politically Correct Police and anger the agenda driven folks.

It is the timing of the designation. Why now? We know why?

Growing up in New Mexico I never heard of Juneteenth. When I went into the army in 1965 I went to Ft. Jackson for basic and then played in the band there. Many of the guys in the band were black and in mid June started discussing plans for Juneteenth. I told them I had never heard of it and asked what it was. They told me it was the day Lincoln freed the slaves, not entirely accurate, but close enough. It was very significant to them and understandably so.

Several Pueblos are located along the Rio Grande. Each has a number of feast or fiesta days to commemorate their traditional holidays. Some are open to visitors and I have gone to watch the dances.

I had not heard of Cinco de Mayo until 1990 when I got over to Southern California. Boy it is one HUGE party day there, ironically mostly for Anglos. lol. My Mexican gardener and cleaning lady told me it meant nothing to them so I looked it up. It is the anniversary of Mexico winning a minor battle at Puebla against the French. A Mexican beer company got the big celebrations going in the USA to sell more of their beer!

How Beer Companies Turned a Minor Holiday Into America's Favorite Mexican Drinking Day (https://www.businessinsider.com/cinco-de-mayo-beer-companies-advertizing-2011-5)

[Zenmama18]

But isn’t Good Friday a Federal Holiday?

[jimjamuser]

No comment.

Actually one----When are we going to declare a Federal holiday in honor of the ancient Egyptian god Osiris? Definitely would be more interesting than this one
That is a Historically SHALLOW, racist, and insulting thing to say. It probably violates the intent of the Hippocratic Oath! I would certainly prefer to have as my Doctor, a person OPENMINDED enough to endorse the Historic significance of Juneteenth!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is VERY profound, in that, it signifies the end of one race OWNING another race. That is LONG overdue in the US! It IS a BRIDGE toward a future where mankind demonstrates more humanity.

[retiredguy123]

But isn’t Good Friday a Federal Holiday?
No, it is not.

[macawlaw]

Every Federal office I ever "worked" in was so overstaffed that all the essential work was done by about 20 percent of the employees. The other 80 percent either did no work or just got in the way. Adding another holiday will have no affect on productivity or cost.

Not a federal job, but when I was a prosecutor (county government job) we got the federal holidays off. We were severely understaffed and everyone worked their bootie off.

[jimjamuser]

When are the special holidays for American Indians? Italian Americans, Asian Americans, Latino Americans?
The difference IS that those ethnic groups were NOT OWNED by another (white) race. Big difference!

[manaboutown]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neils View Post
When are the special holidays for American Indians? Italian Americans, Asian Americans, Latino Americans?


The difference IS that those ethnic groups were NOT OWNED by another (white) race. Big difference!

FALSE!

"Tribal territories and the slave trade ranged over present-day borders. Some Native American tribes held war captives as slaves prior to and during European colonization. Some Native Americans were captured and sold by others into slavery to Europeans, while others were captured and sold by Europeans themselves In the late 18th and 19th centuries, a small number of tribes adopted the practice of holding slaves as chattel property, holding increasing numbers of African-American slaves.[1]

European influence greatly changed slavery used by Native Americans, as pre-contact forms of slavery were generally distinct from the form of chattel slavery developed by Europeans in North America during the colonial period.[2][3] As they raided other tribes to capture slaves for sales to Europeans, they fell into destructive wars among themselves, and against Europeans.[2][3][4]"

From: Slavery among Native Americans in the United States - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_Native_Americans_in_the_United_State s)

[Joe V.]

The difference IS that those ethnic groups were NOT OWNED by another (white) race. Big difference!

Slaves brought to America were sold by black Africans either directly or to to the Moors, as their middleman.

[Justus]

The difference IS that those ethnic groups were NOT OWNED by another (white) race. Big difference!
WRONG!!! :ohdear:

[jimjamuser]

And all that is fine. Slavery of all types was an abomination. My understanding was than 6/19 was the day that slaves in specifically Galveston, Texas were informed that they were free. Also fine.

My question is whether this event should rise to the level of a national holiday?

Is it as important, in the scheme of history of ALL Americans as 7/4/1776??? Is it as important as Memorial Day, honoring those who died for America (including a very large number of white and some black men that died to free slaves). Is it as important as honoring ALL veterans. Is it as important as Washington and Lincoln? (which by the way were combined to one holiday about 45-50 years ago to keep the number of federal holidays the same after they instituted MLK day)

How about we create a national holiday to celebrate the day that an Irish indentured servant in colonial America was informed his 7 year contract was up and he was free. How about a day to celebrate Japanese-Americans being informed they no long had to stay in internment camps?

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. I think (my opinion only) that national holidays should celebrate a person or event of great significance to all Americans, not just 12% of the population. After all, 10% of Americans play golf, so where is that national holiday?????
Juneteenth is important to ALL (100%) of HUMAN beings because it ANNOUNCES that NO HUMAN being should own ANOTHER human being. That IS just as WRONG as wrong can be!

[Byte1]

My thought is that I was always under the impression that America was about inclusion, not exclusion. Having a specific date made a federal holiday based on race seems to be separating the races instead of impressing the idea of inclusion upon citizens. But, like covid relief checks, everyone would vote for a paid day off and accept a federal holiday, no questions asked. Humans are easily bought with FREE stuff. Another way to "legally" buy votes.
I have to agree with the other poster that said that the holiday should be merged with MLK's birthday, just like Washington and Lincoln's birthdays were merged. It is the practical thing to do. It won't happen as long as the powers that be give away freebies, but no one seems to care about the national debt anymore, not either side of the political spectrum.
Arguing about gov employee benefits is a moot point and has hardly anything to do with it. Leave has changed over the decades,as well as gov retirement. At one time, gov employees did not have social security, they do now. The percentage of pension has changed also. As a matter of fact, since I retired they started allowing sick leave to be used toward retirement, where they didn't before and you lost it if you did not use it. Things change.
Slavery was a bad thing, but none of my family was responsible for it. My family is a family of immigrants that came over well after the civil war. Still, I do not know anyone that is directly effected by slavery, so I can't relate to this. At least, not American slavery. There was other slavery.
This whole discussion is interesting and informative, but not really going to change anything. My opinion is that some folks are just pushing buttons by implementing this "federal holiday" at this time. Other than attempting to buy votes, I can not see where it is doing anything to heal the racial divide.

[Stu from NYC]

Juneteenth is important to ALL (100%) of HUMAN beings because it ANNOUNCES that NO HUMAN being should own ANOTHER human being. That IS just as WRONG as wrong can be!

Do we really need a holiday to tell us this? I would think morality tells us.

and why is it racist to question this new holiday?

[retiredguy123]

Does anyone really believe that this new holiday will improve race relations? I think it will do the opposite.

[Irishmen]

Slaves brought to America were sold by black Africans either directly or to to the Moors, as their middleman.

the racist anti-Semitic congresswoman from Minnesota family is such and are largest entity in Africa dealing in human trafficking. Yet she wants to run your life.

[Irishmen]

The number of government employees at all levels has grown exponentially. When I lived in Pennsylvania, once a year our local paper listed the top three employers in our county. Over the years different manufacturers & the hospital occupied the top three spots. But about 10 years ago, that changed. Since then, the top three employers in the county were the Federal, State & local governments…

87,000 IRS now in process of being hired. Good Luck to all.

[Irishmen]

Pretty much the way it is. Predatory capitalism has taken over the US, and the corporations are sewing fear, uncertainty, and doubt to lock in their ownership of the country and its government.

What do you think globalism is. Your dollars and resources spent overseas to support these other countries social programs. Without US Aid, Germany and France will collapse.

[Irishmen]

Does anyone really believe that this new holiday will improve race relations? I think it will do the opposite.

reference 1917 Russia. Same playbook. Same result. Millions die.

[zendog3]

Government work is soul-sucking. To survive you must put your free thinking mind into a spider hole until, hopefully, when you retire, you can recreate your life. Few do.
Open season on federal employees. Please!
I was in the military for 4 years. Not the hardest work of my life, but please don't slander the military. As a medical librarian for a state, I worked with people from the National Library of Medicine and the National Institutes of Health. As a group they were very hardworking and dedicated people. Here in TV the folks in the local post office are working as hard as most in private business. So, lets back off and not take a slap at a lot of people who are working hard to make life better for all of us.

[Joe V.]

But isn’t Good Friday a Federal Holiday?

No.

[jimjamuser]

The United States Army rode in and freed the slaves, we have a wonderful military. Lets celebrate.
Actually, we have an all volunteer army. Very dangerous!

[jimjamuser]

1% also pay 35% of ALL income taxes . Top 5% - 50% . Don't complain..
I will complain that the US is today about 30th on the world list for "upward mobility" - and the US has the greatest WEALTH DISPARITY of ALL 1st world countries. Those are SOME important things to complain about - and I imagine that 50% of Americans are unaware of those facts because the 1% pushes its propaganda SO WELL!

[golfing eagles]

That is a Historically SHALLOW, racist, and insulting thing to say. It probably violates the intent of the Hippocratic Oath! I would certainly prefer to have as my Doctor, a person OPENMINDED enough to endorse the Historic significance of Juneteenth!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is VERY profound, in that, it signifies the end of one race OWNING another race. That is LONG overdue in the US! It IS a BRIDGE toward a future where mankind demonstrates more humanity.

More far left BS, but not surprising. I simply was making the point, if you actually read the whole post, that I didn't think this rated a national holiday, and I feel it is more than covered by MLK day, Lincoln's birthday, and Memorial Day, which honors a president that actually signed the emancipation, the Union soldiers that died to end slavery, and a great leader that helped give civil rights to his people. BUT NOOOOOOO......you skipped the first line where I stated slavery was an abomination and then cherry picked one line out of context to make some point or another, although it is unclear what that may be, and launch a personal attack at the same time. WAY TO GO-----YOU'VE OUTDONE YOURSELF!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neils View Post
When are the special holidays for American Indians? Italian Americans, Asian Americans, Latino Americans?




FALSE!

"Tribal territories and the slave trade ranged over present-day borders. Some Native American tribes held war captives as slaves prior to and during European colonization. Some Native Americans were captured and sold by others into slavery to Europeans, while others were captured and sold by Europeans themselves In the late 18th and 19th centuries, a small number of tribes adopted the practice of holding slaves as chattel property, holding increasing numbers of African-American slaves.[1]

European influence greatly changed slavery used by Native Americans, as pre-contact forms of slavery were generally distinct from the form of chattel slavery developed by Europeans in North America during the colonial period.[2][3] As they raided other tribes to capture slaves for sales to Europeans, they fell into destructive wars among themselves, and against Europeans.[2][3][4]"

From: Slavery among Native Americans in the United States - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_Native_Americans_in_the_United_State s)

This is an EXCELLENT argument in favor of getting rid of Thanksgiving as a holiday. It points out the shame of our country for glorifying the hostile takeover and attempted genocide of Native Americans.

Thank you for bringing it up.

[golfing eagles]

Juneteenth is important to ALL (100%) of HUMAN beings because it ANNOUNCES that NO HUMAN being should own ANOTHER human being. That IS just as WRONG as wrong can be!

I agree 100%. But does that mean we should declare a national holiday?????

Murder is wrong, should we have a national holiday (I'm willing to bet you are against capital punishment as well)
Embezzlement is wrong---how about a Bernie Madoff Day?
Adultery is wrong......well, you get my point

Everything that is wrong, everything that is important does not rate a national holiday, if it did, we'd have 365 day a year off, and one more in leap year. (Oh, wait, I'm retired so I do have 365 days/year off:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:)

[Spalumbos62]

If you include sick leave, 13 days, vacation, 26 days (for those with 15 years of service), and holidays, 11, it comes to 50 days off. And, the day after Thanksgiving is often added as a day off, by the President.


Not grossly over what most companies give.

[jimjamuser]

I bet next they will change the work week from 40 hours to 32 hours so everyone will have three day weekends.
It will ABSOLUTELY happen in the NEAR future because A.I. and ROBOTIC will be doing the work of people. It IS the future and could cause some degree of social disruption. Society and government will have to solve the problem of people with maybe too much free time. How can they keep their lives meaningful?

[golfing eagles]

It will ABSOLUTELY happen in the NEAR future because A.I. and ROBOTIC will be doing the work of people. It IS the future and could cause some degree of social disruption. Society and government will have to solve the problem of people with maybe too much free time. How can they keep their lives meaningful?

They could post on TOTV:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[jimjamuser]

They always get a day off for a holiday that occurs on a weekend. It is either a Friday or a Monday.

13 days of sick leave per year may not sound like a lot, but it can be accululated over the years. So, if you are a supervisor of long term employees, many of the employees will have the option of using an entire year of accumulated sick leave and be absent from the job any time they want. They can even use it to care for another person they know. There are many Federal employees in their 60s, 70s, and 80s, who almost never show up for work. A "for profit" business could never operate with those rules.
For-profits could absolutely operate with those rules, but the greedy CEOs making 300 MILLION per year would have to "struggle by" making only 30 MILLION per year. We would feel so, SO, sorry for those poor CEOs , College Chancellors, and Congress People.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Can you provide any evidence of this?

[jimjamuser]

Government work is soul-sucking. To survive you must put your free thinking mind into a spider hole until, hopefully, when you retire, you can recreate your life. Few do.
Also, a way to survive in the US military!

[Spalumbos62]

It is so sad to see so many mean spirited posts in this thread that show no appreciation of American history.


Agree...but I think it's because half of them don't know what the heck they are talking about. One says it happened this way, then someone else prints out practically a book....too much..... just be happy these people are freed and honored.

[Bill14564]

You are not correct about the doctor's certificate. The employee doesn't even need to be sick, but can use sick leave to help a friend or family member. If a manager asks for a doctor certificate, they will usually be charged with an EEO complaint for discrimination. The employee will just ask for the documentation used by other employees who took sick leave, and the manager will not have it, hence, discrimination. In 35 years as a Federal employee, I never saw a case where an employee was prevented from using any sick leave they wanted. There were even some employees who would go on sick leave for a year or so, with no intention of returning to work, and then file for their retirement. That gives them an entire extra year of pay, benefits, and longevity, before retiring.

I take it you were never a manager. There are employees who may try filing a grievance but a good manager would have the documentation to counter it.

A year on sick leave with no documentation from a medical professional? I seriously doubt it. Where I worked if you were off even seven days you could expect to be asked for documentation. A full year? Sure, odd, one-off things happen; 12 people have walked on the moon but that hardly equates to Americans all go to the moon.

[jimjamuser]

Ah, another excuse to celebrate how bad some people had things in the distant past. Why do some people promote themselves as victims when they live in the most opportunistic society ever?

Its all about political power. If we can keep victimhood alive then we can make people hate each other. Angry people are easy to control.
There was a Black lynched in1981, not the"DISTANT" past!

[retiredguy123]

Not grossly over what most companies give.
The biggest difference is that Federal employees can accumulate an unlimited number of sick days. I don't think most companies can afford to do that. Also, most upper level employees in a company are paid on a salary basis. But, Federal employees are essentially hourly workers, paid for an 8 hour day, 40 hours per week. If they work longer, you have to pay them more money. Even those making over $150K are paid by the hour. What company does that?

[Bill14564]

I don't know what you mean by tone, but I was just stating the facts about the sick leave rules for Federal employees. If you are an employee for 20 years, you can accumulate 260 days of sick leave and 30 days of vacation time. That, added to the current year's weekends, vacation days, holidays, and sick leave, will allow the employee to be away from work for more than a year. There is no way a Federal manager can efficiently manage a project when their employees have that much flexibility in the work schedule.

As far as Federal employees working hard, they only need to work 40 hours per week and, if you want them to work longer, you must pay them overtime. It is illegal to not pay them.

Mathematically, that is correct but it is a fantasy.
1. The person who has used zero sick leave in 20 years is not about to use it all at once.
2. No manager would allow their employee to be on sick leave for that long without medical documentation. (Yes, I have seen Fed employees fired for abuse of sick leave)

As far as Fed employees working hard, you apparently don't have a clue. Every place has its slackers but I personally know Fed employees who regularly worked uncompensated hours and others who gave away their annual leave rather than taking it. It is usually (not always) illegal to not pay a Fed employee for all the hours they work but it is also illegal to pay them 40 hours if they worked less - it goes both ways.

[retiredguy123]

I take it you were never a manager. There are employees who may try filing a grievance but a good manager would have the documentation to counter it.

A year on sick leave with no documentation from a medical professional? I seriously doubt it. Where I worked if you were off even seven days you could expect to be asked for documentation. A full year? Sure, odd, one-off things happen; 12 people have walked on the moon but that hardly equates to Americans all go to the moon.
Not true. I was a manager and also was an Inspector General, responsible for knowing and enforcing the rules. The problem with asking for medical documentation is that, unless you enforce the requirement consistently across the agency, you are discriminating. Someone who wants to use a year of sick leave is just as entitled to use it as the guy who calls in sick on Monday morning almost every week. Another problem is that the employee doesn't need to be sick to use the leave. He/she can say that he needs to travel out of town to help a friend or family member. And, finally, most employees who abuse sick leave can usually provide a letter from a medical provider, and the manager has no way to dispute the letter. The agency is not going to hire a doctor to dispute a medical letter from a private doctor.

[jimjamuser]

So we have another federal holiday that ALL AMERICANS can't identify with. Do we really need it? Or is it just paying lip service to a small minority? Most Americans either never heard of Juneteenth (not even a real word) or if they did, weren't really interested in it.
So I consider it another notch in the slow decline of the U.S.A.

I do believe in July 4th......a day to celebrate ALL AMERICANS.
It is a righteous, evolved moment to be celebrated and marks the beginning of a future where ALL races are equally invested in America - NOT just an America for the exclusive benefit of WHITES. The future belongs to ALL races.

[Stu from NYC]

There was a Black lynched in1981, not the"DISTANT" past!

And that was horrible and the people who did it should be charged with murder but 40 years ago is a long time.

Things have improved substantially over time and think a new holiday is not necessary for continued improvement.

[mjpuleo]

I totally agree with DAVES. I can think of many other days that deserve recognition -- the first one being Sept. 11 -- how about making that a national memorial holiday, not just a Patriots Day of recognition. That is a day that would honor all races and religions. Let's get our priorities straight!!!

[retiredguy123]

Mathematically, that is correct but it is a fantasy.
1. The person who has used zero sick leave in 20 years is not about to use it all at once.
2. No manager would allow their employee to be on sick leave for that long without medical documentation. (Yes, I have seen Fed employees fired for abuse of sick leave)

As far as Fed employees working hard, you apparently don't have a clue. Every place has its slackers but I personally know Fed employees who regularly worked uncompensated hours and others who gave away their annual leave rather than taking it. It is usually (not always) illegal to not pay a Fed employee for all the hours they work but it is also illegal to pay them 40 hours if they worked less - it goes both ways.
Definitely not a fantasy. My experience was quite different. In my experience, it would have been almost impossible to fire a Federal employee for abusing sick leave. Typically, an employee can use sick leave by just calling into the office and not showing up. No documentation is needed. If that is the policy, then you cannot single out anyone and fire them.

Employees who don't do any work are not necessarily slackers. Some agencies have so much funding that they hire way more employees than they need. And, they will never return money that they don't need. The problem is that, without a profit motive, it is impossible to measure or control the efficiency of a Government office.

[jimjamuser]

Just another "notch" for the special interest groups.
Doesn't mean much, if at all, to most!
OLD people and old IDEAS die off. The future can't be stopped and IS full of NEW ideas! Racial differences are slowly becoming unimportant.

[golfing eagles]

It is a righteous, evolved moment to be celebrated and marks the beginning of a future where ALL races are equally invested in America - NOT just an America for the exclusive benefit of WHITES. The future belongs to ALL races.

Where all races do equal work and pay equal taxes????
Where no race commits a disproportionate amount of crime?
Where no race gets to loot and burn if they don't get their way?
Where no race collects a disproportionate amount of free government "stuff"?

I'm all in favor, when does that start?

[jimjamuser]

Really? Public employees are paid more on average than private workers. They also have better benefits both during work and afterwards during retirement. Government doesn't really worry about a budget so public jobs are typically overpaid and over-staffed. The risk of getting fired in the public sector is miniscule compared to the private sector.

Public unions (which should be outlawed, IMO) have taken advantage of no real entity with actual skin in the game on the other side of the negotiating table. All one has to do is look at the abhorrent behavior of the majority of the teacher's unions during the pandemic. They kept their teachers from working while never missing a pay check. Then, much of the stimulus money went to pay bonuses.
Teachers MERELY wanted SAFETY from CV, which everyone wanted. Their jobs are mostly indoors which have an 18% greater spread of CV than outdoors. Teachers did NOT want to be BULLIED by administrators that were more aligned with politicians than the teachers. CV was NEW and FRIGHTENING - teachers do NOT get DANGER pay like firefighters and the Police. CV IS still not over because of anti-vaxxers and ignorance of the strength of the Delta variant. I can understand the reluctance of teachers to jump into a petri dish.

[jimjamuser]

You are right, but wasting your time here. People here hear ONE story about an employee that supporters their position that government employees are lazy and get away with whatever, and that confirms their views. So, it becomes a mantra to be repeated. The same as the claim that people are buying lobster with food stamps - sure one or even a few did, the other 38 million people didn't, but that doesn't stop the hair fire about all the people doing it. It's a thing - find ONE case of something bad, and rant about how the entire thing is bad.

Liberals are guilty of this too - look at Jan 6th - not all Republicans supported that, but liberals tend to blame them all.

It's like high school pep rallies, screaming and ranting on the other school. I thought by the time people retired they could grow up.
Tribalism was an anthropological strength many eons ago. Primitive man was wary of any NOT of their small tribe. It was a survival skill then. Now, it is STILL hardwired into our brains (the base reptilian area). Consciously, today, we overcome those primitive impulses because of the greater benefits of trade, technology spread, and ease of travel. Apparently, there is human variability in the quality of the human conscious brain.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Tribalism was an anthropological strength many eons ago. Primitive man was wary of any NOT of their small tribe. It was a survival skill then. Now, it is STILL hardwired into our brains (the base reptilian area). Consciously, today, we overcome those primitive impulses because of the greater benefits of trade, technology spread, and ease of travel. Apparently, there is human variability in the quality of the human conscious brain.

Yup. I expect we are heading into a "Great Reset" soon. The perfect storm.

[jimjamuser]

The holiday is great but they should have canceled another day off to keep holidays from adding up. So many workers do NOT get these days off and have to pay for the federal, state workers who don't work and still get paid.
It is NOT a zero-sum-game. A Federal employee getting a holiday COULD (?) help others to get the SAME holiday. It does NOT have to be a deterrent. Not sure why it would bother anyone?

[GrumpyOldMan]

It is NOT a zero-sum-game. A Federal employee getting a holiday COULD (?) help others to get the SAME holiday. It does NOT have to be a deterrent. Not sure why it would bother anyone?

I posted somewhere back up this thread it costs the average taxpayer about $3/year in income taxes for every day Federal employees get paid vacation.

Not what I would call a major issue for the average taxpayer today.

[jimjamuser]

As was stated it’s a lot fewer but I do believe we should combine them perhaps Martin Luther King day along with Juneteenth. Another day off for federal employees means millions of dollars in tax payer money going to salaries with no production. We combined Washington and Lincoln’s birthdays to make Presidents’ Day so the precedent has been set.
Societies become MORE efficient when they have MORE vacation days, not LESS. For Example, Germany is considered very efficient and they get about 2 months off.

[jimjamuser]

Pretty much the way it is. Predatory capitalism has taken over the US, and the corporations are sewing fear, uncertainty, and doubt to lock in their ownership of the country and its government.
Yes!

[jimjamuser]

Slaves brought to America were sold by black Africans either directly or to to the Moors, as their middleman.
Seems like THAT happened outside the borders of the US and it is a minor detail. There will ALWAYS be minor exceptions to every principle!

[jimjamuser]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neils View Post
When are the special holidays for American Indians? Italian Americans, Asian Americans, Latino Americans?




FALSE!

"Tribal territories and the slave trade ranged over present-day borders. Some Native American tribes held war captives as slaves prior to and during European colonization. Some Native Americans were captured and sold by others into slavery to Europeans, while others were captured and sold by Europeans themselves In the late 18th and 19th centuries, a small number of tribes adopted the practice of holding slaves as chattel property, holding increasing numbers of African-American slaves.[1]

European influence greatly changed slavery used by Native Americans, as pre-contact forms of slavery were generally distinct from the form of chattel slavery developed by Europeans in North America during the colonial period.[2][3] As they raided other tribes to capture slaves for sales to Europeans, they fell into destructive wars among themselves, and against Europeans.[2][3][4]"

From: Slavery among Native Americans in the United States - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_Native_Americans_in_the_United_State s)
OK, a minor example that proves the overall rule. Not important!

[Byte1]

Wow, the rest of the world is SO great, yet one poster is imprisoned here in plain old America. Have to bet he has never been overseas to any of those supposed Great countries that are so much better than ours. Instead of constantly going on a rant about other countries and changing the subject in EVERY thread, do you think we could stick with the subject of the thread?
I personally think that even though adding another redundant federal holiday of paid leave is great for some folks, the gov is causing more of a rift between folks when this country is already coping with recouping from a deadly disease, political paranoia, and violent civil unrest. Instead of worrying about playing social healer, how about worrying about folks going back to work and making sure they are safe from mass criminal activity, including a broken border that leaks worst than a sieve. Do we really need to debate "racial injustice" with everything else going on?
A litmus test for whether or not to do this right now is:
Does this improve or damage existing morale?
If you take away a paid day off, will anyone actually care about this supposed holiday of remembrance?
Kind of like the Covid relief checks. If you only give them to certain people, will anyone actually care whether or not they are handed out? How much gov money in your bank account buys your vote?

[jimjamuser]

My thought is that I was always under the impression that America was about inclusion, not exclusion. Having a specific date made a federal holiday based on race seems to be separating the races instead of impressing the idea of inclusion upon citizens. But, like covid relief checks, everyone would vote for a paid day off and accept a federal holiday, no questions asked. Humans are easily bought with FREE stuff. Another way to "legally" buy votes.
I have to agree with the other poster that said that the holiday should be merged with MLK's birthday, just like Washington and Lincoln's birthdays were merged. It is the practical thing to do. It won't happen as long as the powers that be give away freebies, but no one seems to care about the national debt anymore, not either side of the political spectrum.
Arguing about gov employee benefits is a moot point and has hardly anything to do with it. Leave has changed over the decades,as well as gov retirement. At one time, gov employees did not have social security, they do now. The percentage of pension has changed also. As a matter of fact, since I retired they started allowing sick leave to be used toward retirement, where they didn't before and you lost it if you did not use it. Things change.
Slavery was a bad thing, but none of my family was responsible for it. My family is a family of immigrants that came over well after the civil war. Still, I do not know anyone that is directly effected by slavery, so I can't relate to this. At least, not American slavery. There was other slavery.
This whole discussion is interesting and informative, but not really going to change anything. My opinion is that some folks are just pushing buttons by implementing this "federal holiday" at this time. Other than attempting to buy votes, I can not see where it is doing anything to heal the racial divide.
It will go a long way to healing the racial divide.

[jimjamuser]

Do we really need a holiday to tell us this? I would think morality tells us.

and why is it racist to question this new holiday?
The holiday IS a good idea - 100% of US Senators voted for it! You won't call that many smart people wrong, will you?

[jimjamuser]

case study in virtue signaling
We ALL could use a little dose of virtue!

[manaboutown]

OK, a minor example that proves the overall rule. Not important!

This is another FALSE statement.

[Byte1]

It will go a long way to healing the racial divide.

Nope, my guess is that it will just chisel a bit more away of the structure that holds this country together. What racial divide? Seems like the only folks I hear making a giant deal out of everything "racial" are the whites. They seem to think that ONLY they know what is good for minorities and seem to think they know exactly how to punish a scape goat for something that happened to someone else that no longer lives. Sorry, but I am not going to take the blame to make some of you feel better. Funny thing about folks that insist on doing "right" is that it is always someone else that has to pay for their bright ideas. You can't fix history. The truth is there. If you wish to teach it, then put it on the time line of U.S. History and teach it along with the hundreds of thousands of good folks that died to make things right.....and succeeded. You do not need to make a holiday and think that it's going to make history change.

[jimjamuser]

Those IRS agents will be CONCENTRATING on the tax forms of the UPPER 1%. If you are NOT in that group, you will have LITTLE to worry about. Agents were let go in the recent past so that the MOST WEALTHY Americans could AVOID their taxes more EASILY. It was successful and the middle class had to pick up the slack. (or tab)

[manaboutown]

Now this is a holiday that should get federal support! (pun intended)

"Each year, unofficial Naked Hiking Day is observed on June 21, the day of the summer solstice. It may be celebrated by naked hikers singly or in groups in the woods and mountains on that date."

From: Caution: Naked Hiking Day June 21 (https://www.verywellfit.com/caution-naked-hiking-day-june-21-3436274)

[jimjamuser]

Can you provide any evidence of this?
Some would go bankrupt. Some would be ABLE to raise their prices significantly and continue. Each company has a DIFFERENT profit margin. The closest real example would be JAPANESE CEOs that would only ACCEPT a salary of 19 times that of their average factory worker. It IS a social lack of GREED thing - barely understandable to the usual self-serving US person. Remember the line from a movie, "Greed IS Good"!

[npwalters]

Every Federal office I ever "worked" in was so overstaffed that all the essential work was done by about 20 percent of the employees. The other 80 percent either did no work or just got in the way. Adding another holiday will have no affect on productivity or cost.

I worked for the federal government for about 15 years (after 26 active duty) and that was not my experience, but my organization was full of type As. I know some of the offices I had to deal with were next to worthless.

[npwalters]

Those IRS agents will be CONCENTRATING on the tax forms of the UPPER 1%. If you are NOT in that group, you will have LITTLE to worry about. Agents were let go in the recent past so that the MOST WEALTHY Americans could AVOID their taxes more EASILY. It was successful and the middle class had to pick up the slack. (or tab)

Pure opinion on your part. The top 5% of earners pay 50% of all federal income tax.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Pure opinion on your part. The top 5% of earners pay 50% of all federal income tax.

And that means what? The top 5% earned 10 times the wage of the average income, or $209,000/year or a net total of $45 billion dollars. The top 1% earned 20 times the average income earners.

Is there a point to this? I mean, we can. throw out statistics with no context all day long.

Wealth inequality is at a historic high in this country.

[JMintzer]

You know........Germany and French citizens get something like 45 days off - and their countries are NOT falling apart because of it. (France can't get a handle on its immigration problems) Germany is still able to sell BMW and Mercedes Benz vehicles at competitive prices worldwide. Germany has Unions that HELP the companies. The US has fallen victim to propaganda that demonizes Unions - for the purpose of higher profits and HUGE salaries for UPPER-level managers and CEOs. US people and workers are JUST STUPID for allowing this to develop since 1950. Don't think it IS stupid? You as a worker could (?) be having MORE days off AND making a higher salary AND US society would be stronger and more STABLE as a result. Only a few, the CEOs and upper-income developers would have to tighten their belts. WHAT is NOT to like? And PLEASE, don't warn of a communist takeover - it NEVER happened in Germany or Australia - that's a red herring!

CHECK their TAX rates THAT everybody PAYS...

"What was the main problem in the French economy?
Unemployment is high and the government's finances are weak. "France's fundamental economic problem," the OECD says, "is a lack of growth." The latest figures for economic activity (gross domestic product or GDP) for the first quarter of the year(2016) show growth of 0.5%."

[JMintzer]

Societies become MORE efficient when they have MORE vacation days, not LESS. For Example, Germany is considered very efficient and they get about 2 months off.

Considered by whom?

[JMintzer]

Seems like THAT happened outside the borders of the US and it is a minor detail. There will ALWAYS be minor exceptions to every principle!

Minor detail? Bwahahaahahaha!

Where do you think the Europeans learned about slavery?

From Wiki: "How did Europe get slaves from Africa?

Africans were either captured in warring raids or kidnapped and taken to the port by African slave traders. There they were exchanged for iron, guns, gunpowder, mirrors, knives, cloth, and beads brought by boat from Europe. When Europeans arrived along the West African coast, slavery already existed on the continent."

[JMintzer]

Those IRS agents will be CONCENTRATING on the tax forms of the UPPER 1%. If you are NOT in that group, you will have LITTLE to worry about. Agents were let go in the recent past so that the MOST WEALTHY Americans could AVOID their taxes more EASILY. It was successful and the middle class had to pick up the slack. (or tab)

Once again, more "facts" with absolutely nothing to back it up...

[manaboutown]

Minor detail? Bwahahaahahaha!

Where do you think the Europeans learned about slavery?

From Wiki: "How did Europe get slaves from Africa?

Africans were either captured in warring raids or kidnapped and taken to the port by African slave traders. There they were exchanged for iron, guns, gunpowder, mirrors, knives, cloth, and beads brought by boat from Europe. When Europeans arrived along the West African coast, slavery already existed on the continent."

Slavery still exists in Africa!

[JMintzer]

Some would go bankrupt. Some would be ABLE to raise their prices significantly and continue. Each company has a DIFFERENT profit margin. The closest real example would be JAPANESE CEOs that would only ACCEPT a salary of 19 times that of their average factory worker. It IS a social lack of GREED thing - barely understandable to the usual self-serving US person. Remember the line from a movie, "Greed IS Good"!

Old data. In recent years, Japanese CEO salaries have risen at a much faster rate than those of US and European CEOs...

[JMintzer]

Slavery still exists in Africa!

I never said it didn't...

[Swoop]

There was a Black lynched in1981, not the"DISTANT" past!

A white man was lynched in 2017, so what’s your point?
6 now arrested in white man'''s hanging death in Tennessee (https://apnews.com/article/b870cec03410407b8cfb659bce5870f6)

[GrumpyOldMan]

A white man was lynched in 2017, so what’s your point?
6 now arrested in white man'''s hanging death in Tennessee (https://apnews.com/article/b870cec03410407b8cfb659bce5870f6)

Well, let's see one hanging was by KKK members that targeted a black man at random, and was said to be a racially motivated murder. The other was 7 people of mixed races and no racial bias was ever mentioned.

hmmm...

[Incoblack1]

A radio announcer said yesterday that the addition of Juneteenth as a paid Federal Holiday makes a total of 48/year. That means that Federal employees get a total of over 9 weeks of paid holidays every year. Can that be correct?

Juneteenth is a holiday worthy of observance since it denoted the end of the worst mistake this country ever made outside of engaging in unnecessary wars. An underclass was created which still has components that exist today. But there has to be some limit! Columbus day should be deleted! Election day should be added and, probably Veterans Day should be dropped (and I'm a veteran).

[lkagele]

This is an EXCELLENT argument in favor of getting rid of Thanksgiving as a holiday. It points out the shame of our country for glorifying the hostile takeover and attempted genocide of Native Americans.

Thank you for bringing it up.

Paleeese. Progress isn't always neat and clean but it is inevitable. What's important is whether or not we learn from our mistakes. I think American has and is top of the list as far as freedom and liberty is concerned.

[lkagele]

Have you ever worked for the Govt or are you just regurgitating what you heard on the television?

I have worked for the Govt and in the same field in private industry. I had better pay and comparable benefits *outside* the Govt. Some parts of the Govt still have retirements plans but they are rarely offered in private industry any more - yes, something beats nothing any day.

Actually, I did for four years. Quit for two reasons. One, my superior was certifiably loony toons and there wasn't a chance in the world she would ever be removed. Two, I was required to needlessly spend my entire budget so I'd be entitled to more dollars next year.

[Topspinmo]

No, not management. Her official title was intake clerk.

According to this source, only 26% of federal workers are union.

Top Industries for Union Jobs in America (https://www.thebalancecareers.com/best-union-jobs-in-america-4160033)


Paying to union, the union negotiates for WG workers. GS? and especially GS in management are NOT unionized.

[lkagele]

I agree 100%. But does that mean we should declare a national holiday?????

Murder is wrong, should we have a national holiday (I'm willing to bet you are against capital punishment as well)
Embezzlement is wrong---how about a Bernie Madoff Day?
Adultery is wrong......well, you get my point

Everything that is wrong, everything that is important does not rate a national holiday, if it did, we'd have 365 day a year off, and one more in leap year. (Oh, wait, I'm retired so I do have 365 days/year off:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:)

Good points. I have no problem celebrating Americas' progress with civil rights. I'm not sure, however, that the real motivation about this new holiday is that or if it is designed simply to appease the woke crowd.

MLK was a great American and instrumental in advancing civil rights. I think we honor his message as well as the change he initiated for ALL Americans. This shouldn't be about a "race holiday" but rather an American holiday.

No matter what anyone says, I still believe we are the most accepting and least discriminatory nation that has ever existed.

[Topspinmo]

The number of government employees at all levels has grown exponentially. When I lived in Pennsylvania, once a year our local paper listed the top three employers in our county. Over the years different manufacturers & the hospital occupied the top three spots. But about 10 years ago, that changed. Since then, the top three employers in the county were the Federal, State & local governments…


Blame the state? Isn’t Pennsylvania the state that pays teachers the most and has the highest teachers retirement? Now shall we talk superintendent pay scale?

[Swoop]

Well, let's see one hanging was by KKK members that targeted a black man at random, and was said to be a racially motivated murder. The other was 7 people of mixed races and no racial bias was ever mentioned.

hmmm...
I still don’t see your point, is it strictly the method of death that makes that 1981 murder pertinent? Because racial hate crimes aren’t limited to the KKK, and you certainly don’t have to go back 40 years…
Man Accused of 5 Shootings in Ga., Ala. Allegedly Targeted White Men | PEOPLE.com (https://www.google.com/amp/s/people.com/crime/man-accused-shooting-five-people-georgia-alabama-allegedly-racially-motivated/%3famp=true)