Three-Way Switch Wiring

[Wrhobson]

The instructions (Chinglish) for installing my new motion-sensing switch in a three-way circuit suggest "Determine which electrical box as a LOAD connection". The box where I would prefer to install this motion-sensing switch has two blacks, a red and a ground. Can anybody determine, from that wiring, whether this is the LOAD or the LINE box in a three-way circuit? (I realize I could call a qualified electrician, so please don't suggest the obvious.) I was unaware there was a difference, but this switch, in Chinglish, seems to say that it can apparently only be installed in the LOAD side and that box is blocked by our dryer so it would be ineffective if installed there. Thanks for the help.

[Sparky25]

The instructions (Chinglish) for installing my new motion-sensing switch in a three-way circuit suggest "Determine which electrical box as a LOAD connection". The box where I would prefer to install this motion-sensing switch has two blacks, a red and a ground. Can anybody determine, from that wiring, whether this is the LOAD or the LINE box in a three-way circuit? (I realize I could call a qualified electrician, so please don't suggest the obvious.) I was unaware there was a difference, but this switch, in Chinglish, seems to say that it can apparently only be installed in the LOAD side and that box is blocked by our dryer so it would be ineffective if installed there. Thanks for the help.

Disconnect the red wire & if it is not hot it is the load wire.
Please turnoff the breaker first and then turn it back on for the test.

[rjm1cc]

Try youtube for installation help.

[dewilson58]

Disconnect the red wire & if it is not hot it is the load wire.
Please turnoff the breaker first and then turn it back on for the test.

:bigbow:

[I'm Popeye!]

I would say the red being Hot (coming from panel) or Load (coming to light) and the other two black wires as travelers (jumping from switch to switch). I can do a drawing and post it here if you like?

[Blueblaze]

As an electrician in a former life, I can guarantee that your motion-sensing switch will not work in a 3-way circuit, unless it says on the box it's designed for a 3-way circuit.

Two of the three wires you are seeing are called "travelers". The red one is probably one of them. A good electrician will have twisted them together. Either one or the other will carry current, depending on the setting of the two switches in the circuit.

The other wire is either a "hot" (line) or a "switch-leg" (load). If you look at the 3-way switch you removed, you will see that two of the screws are silver and the other is brass. The brass screw is attached to the hot or switchleg, depending on which end of the circuit the switch is on. The travelers are attached to the silver screws.

If your motion-detecting switch doesn't have three screws like that (or three wires with appropriate labels), it is not a three-way switch, and will not work in the circuit.

The only way to determine the hot wire is with a circuit tester, with the power on, which is not something I would recommend for a non-electrician.

[Bjeanj]

Get an electrician. If you do it wrong, or have the wrong type of connection, what if you have a fire? If it were me, I wouldn’t chance it.

[LoisR]

Installing a switch and you have no idea about the wiring. Yet you won't call an electrician. Fill in the blank: There's never a shortage of "blank" in The Villages.

[Sparky25]

An easier way is to turn the light off by one of the switches and then the red wire that is not hot is the switch leg and not the feed

[butlerism]

A bit of clarification would be in order- Is this a motion detector for perhaps an outdoor spotlight?
or is this a passive (no contact) light switch?


I agree with Shadywood.
Motion detectors only get used on circuits with only one switch, not 3-way circuits.
I have one out back, turn the switch on, the detector is working. Switch off - detector is offline.

[JoelJohnson]

Almost as much fun as installing a 4-way switch in an existing circuit in a hot attic.

[Wrhobson]

As an electrician in a former life, I can guarantee that your motion-sensing switch will not work in a 3-way circuit, unless it says on the box it's designed for a 3-way circuit.

Two of the three wires you are seeing are called "travelers". The red one is probably one of them. A good electrician will have twisted them together. Either one or the other will carry current, depending on the setting of the two switches in the circuit.

The other wire is either a "hot" (line) or a "switch-leg" (load). If you look at the 3-way switch you removed, you will see that two of the screws are silver and the other is brass. The brass screw is attached to the hot or switchleg, depending on which end of the circuit the switch is on. The travelers are attached to the silver screws.

If your motion-detecting switch doesn't have three screws like that (or three wires with appropriate labels), it is not a three-way switch, and will not work in the circuit.

The only way to determine the hot wire is with a circuit tester, with the power on, which is not something I would recommend for a non-electrician.

The online description of the switch specifically says it is for a 3-way circuit (I'm not quite that dense) BUT it doesn't say that it can only be installed in the "LOAD" box and therein lies my confusion. Your post mentions which "end" of the circuit the box is on and that's what I am trying to clarify. Apparently one end is considered the "Line" end and the other is considered the "Load" end. From what I've read, it appears to me that the box I would like to install it in is a "LINE" box (in their language). This is based on its proximity to the breaker panel plus I don't see enough wires for this box to feed the light being controlled. I have ordered a three-way motion-sensing switch from a different manufacturer to see if it has such a restriction. I understand single pole, double throw switches but it is the definitions (by the switch maker) that confused me. Thanks to all who posted helpful replies.

[macovatto]

The instructions (Chinglish) for installing my new motion-sensing switch in a three-way circuit suggest "Determine which electrical box as a LOAD connection". The box where I would prefer whether this is the LOAD or the LINE box in a three-way circuit? (I realize I could call a qualified electrician, so please don't suggest the obvious.) I was unaware there was a difference, but this switch, in Chinglish, seems to say that it can apparently only be installed in the LOAD side and that box is blocked by our dryer so it would be ineffective if installed there. Thanks for the help.

Hire someone who knows what they are doing. So you don’t get dead!!!!

[macovatto]

Hire an electrician. Power kills.

[MrFlorida]

Ditto, hire an electrician.

[Ksfirefighter]

You might try this reference

[Joeint]

Don't do it you'll burn your house down and your insurance won't cover it!!! Stick to plumbing at least you won't take the chance of killing yourself or someone else. Don't play with electricity...

[villagetinker]

OP, the box you are looking for is the one where the wires from the breaker box goes to. The 'best way' IMHO to determine this will be to turn OFF the breaker. Go to one of the switch boxes, disconnect the all of BLACK wires and LABEL where they were installed. Make sure that and you are clear of the wires and turn on the breaker, then using a voltmeter determine which wire (there should only be ONE) is energized. If you get more than one black wire energized you are in the wrong box. Repeat above in the other box. Once you get to the correct box with ONE and only ONE energized black wire, your can go and install the new switch.
Now have stated the above, I strongly suggest you get at a minimum a handy man knowledgeable in this area or a licensed electrician to do your project.
Please be careful.

[Blueblaze]

The online description of the switch specifically says it is for a 3-way circuit (I'm not quite that dense) BUT it doesn't say that it can only be installed in the "LOAD" box and therein lies my confusion. Your post mentions which "end" of the circuit the box is on and that's what I am trying to clarify. Apparently one end is considered the "Line" end and the other is considered the "Load" end. From what I've read, it appears to me that the box I would like to install it in is a "LINE" box (in their language). This is based on its proximity to the breaker panel plus I don't see enough wires for this box to feed the light being controlled. I have ordered a three-way motion-sensing switch from a different manufacturer to see if it has such a restriction. I understand single pole, double throw switches but it is the definitions (by the switch maker) that confused me. Thanks to all who posted helpful replies.

If the switch must be installed at the "load" end, VillageTinker's instructions tell you how to find the "line" (hot) wire, not the "load". "Load" means the light bulb. "Line" means the source of the power -- the panel. Whichever switch box did NOT have a hot wire connected to the original switch is the "load" side of the circuit, and that's apparently where your motion detector wants to be installed (although I can't think of a reason it would matter).

Here's a picture of a 3-way circuit, to help you understand how it works. See the two wires labeled "travelers"? The power travels from the panel to the lightbulb over one or the other depending on the position of the two switches. In the drawing, the light bulb is off. As you can see, if you flick either switch, the power finds a path over one of the two travelers to the light bulb.

But we haven't talked about "neutrals", which are the white wires. They are the return path from the light bulb to the panel (which I haven't shown in my drawing). Motion detectors normally need a neutral as well as a Line and Load because the gadget that detects the motion needs a return current path itself. If you mistakenly connect a hot wire (whether line or load) directly to a neutral (which would happen if you connected a white wire to the wrong lug on your motion detector) that's a "short circuit", which will trip a breaker and make sparks when you turn the circuit back on. If you accidentally did that when the power was already on (because you turned off the wrong breaker) , it would blow up in your face and the hot flying metal could ruin your eyes. Getting electrocuted is not the only way you can get hurt playing amateur electrician.

Like I said, I think you should get an electrician, but if you want to attach a picture of the instructions and the device, I'll see if I can decipher it for you.

[Bill14564]

The instructions (Chinglish) for installing my new motion-sensing switch in a three-way circuit suggest "Determine which electrical box as a LOAD connection". The box where I would prefer to install this motion-sensing switch has two blacks, a red and a ground. Can anybody determine, from that wiring, whether this is the LOAD or the LINE box in a three-way circuit? (I realize I could call a qualified electrician, so please don't suggest the obvious.) I was unaware there was a difference, but this switch, in Chinglish, seems to say that it can apparently only be installed in the LOAD side and that box is blocked by our dryer so it would be ineffective if installed there. Thanks for the help.

Did the switch come with a wiring diagram that you could copy here or could you post the manufacturer and part number?

[Nick B]

The instructions (Chinglish) for installing my new motion-sensing switch in a three-way circuit suggest "Determine which electrical box as a LOAD connection". The box where I would prefer to install this motion-sensing switch has two blacks, a red and a ground. Can anybody determine, from that wiring, whether this is the LOAD or the LINE box in a three-way circuit? (I realize I could call a qualified electrician, so please don't suggest the obvious.) I was unaware there was a difference, but this switch, in Chinglish, seems to say that it can apparently only be installed in the LOAD side and that box is blocked by our dryer so it would be ineffective if installed there. Thanks for the help.
No white?