This is on the subject of shootings by race/ethnicity. Any facts found for 2021?

[graciegirl]

Kaiser Family Foundation - Media Bias/Fact Check (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/kaiser-family-foundation/)

Deaths Due to Firearms per 100,000 Population by Race/Ethnicity | KFF (https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22 :%22asc%22%7D)

This is from 2019. Has it changed much since then?

We haven't guns in our house, but many friends have guns.

[JMintzer]

Your chart is on "deaths" by ethnicity... Not "shootings"...

It says nothing about who is doing the shooting...

And what does your last comment have to do with your initial topic?

[Taltarzac725]

Gun Violence is a Racial Justice Issue | Brady (https://www.bradyunited.org/issue/gun-violence-is-a-racial-justice-issue)

I did find this. It covers statistics before 2021 however.

[Bucco]

Kaiser Family Foundation - Media Bias/Fact Check (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/kaiser-family-foundation/)

Deaths Due to Firearms per 100,000 Population by Race/Ethnicity | KFF (https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22 :%22asc%22%7D)

This is from 2019. Has it changed much since then?

We haven't guns in our house, but many friends have guns.

Would be great for discussion (maybe) if knew what you are saying, or suggesting.

You speak of guns in the generic sense but are specific about deaths by skin color.

[JMintzer]

Gun Violence is a Racial Justice Issue | Brady (https://www.bradyunited.org/issue/gun-violence-is-a-racial-justice-issue)

I did find this. It covers statistics before 2021 however.

"Brady"...

Certainly no bias there... And to their point? Wait, do they have an actual point?

[Bill14564]

Gun Violence is a Racial Justice Issue | Brady (https://www.bradyunited.org/issue/gun-violence-is-a-racial-justice-issue)

I did find this. It covers statistics before 2021 however.

It really looks like the title of that article should be, "How to Frame Gun Violence as a Racial Justice Issue."

There are probably some valid points in the article but the misleading way it is written makes me skeptical of its conclusions.

[Bogie Shooter]

Kaiser Family Foundation - Media Bias/Fact Check (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/kaiser-family-foundation/)

Deaths Due to Firearms per 100,000 Population by Race/Ethnicity | KFF (https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22 :%22asc%22%7D)

This is from 2019. Has it changed much since then?

We haven't guns in our house, but many friends have guns.
Really, Gracie?

[manaboutown]

I am currently reading a recently published book (2021) that reveals statistics on violent crimes, including murders, committed within the USA by members of four "racial" groups: White, Black, Latino and Asian. The author shows boiled down results from relatively large data bases such as those kept by the FBI.

The facts are an eye opener!

The book is "Facing Reality" by Charles Murray.

[Mortal1]

I am currently reading a recently published book (2021) that reveals statistics on violent crimes, including murders, committed within the USA by members of four "racial" groups: Whites, Black, Latino and Asian. The author shows boiled down results from relatively large data bases such as those kept by the FBI.

The facts are an eye opener!

The book is "Facing Reality" by Charles Murray.

the FBI can be trusted right....brrrraappp! NOT

[jdulej]

My guess is that if you created a chart showing shooting and/or deaths by income groups, you would see a correlation. Less income = more shootings/deaths. Looking at the numbers that way makes more sense (to me at least). There are fewer low income whites (as a % of whites) so you would expect their numbers to be lower

[graciegirl]

Really, Gracie?

Really what? Is it wrong to try to figure things out? How can we fix anything unless we know why and how it is broken.

It is like the paper we were asked to write in High School English; Do slums make slummy people or do slummy people make slums?

I don't suppose that would be allowed these days. I want to know why the statistics look like this.

That is what I want to know.

People will tell me how they look at things and I will find another unanswerable question.


I will now go to Aldi's and get child two a Wendy's lunch and see what folks have to say while I was gone.

[Mortal1]

I usually think of you as a voice of reason among the chaos...having a LEGAL firearm in your house that you are trained to use has no meaning in your post. Telling us you have none in your house has even less. *sigh*

Has the final bastion on this forum becoming biased. Say it ain't so.

[Taltarzac725]

Recall who Brady is. This is the group connected to James Brady. James Brady - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Brady)

[DAVES]

Your chart is on "deaths" by ethnicity... Not "shootings"...

It says nothing about who is doing the shooting...

And what does your last comment have to do with your initial topic?


Sadly, it is virtually impossible to find information on race, guns that is not spun by bias.
I find it interesting that the areas with the tightest gun controls are also the areas with the most shootings-New York, Chicago, LA.

[Taltarzac725]

Sadly, it is virtually impossible to find information on race, guns that is not spun by bias.
I find it interesting that the areas with the tightest gun controls are also the areas with the most shootings-New York, Chicago, LA.

Probably connected to turf wars over the drug trade in those areas. Most mass shooters have been white males.

[Number 10 GI]

I worked with a guy that owned a fully automatic sub machine gun and competed in shooting matches for this class of weapons. A friend of his was from the D.C. area where he competed in sub machine gun matches in the east coast area. He said that Brady was an avid shooter who owned a sub machine gun and competed frequently in matches in that area.

[DAVES]

Really what? Is it wrong to try to figure things out? How can we fix anything unless we know why and how it is broken.

It is like the paper we were asked to write in High School English; Do slums make slummy people or do slummy people make slums?

I don't suppose that would be allowed these days. I want to know why the statistics look like this.

That is what I want to know.

People will tell me how they look at things and I will find another unanswerable question.


I will now go to Aldi's and get child two a Wendy's lunch and see what folks have to say while I was gone.

Your High School paper. Today the topic, not at all leading, is why is it evil to be white and how much do you think you should pay. My dad served two tours of combat duty in WWII. He clearly had post traumatic distress. When I was born we lived worse than people on welfare. Simple reality, I do not owe any body anything. White guilt, I have no reason to be or feel guilty. My great great great grandfather was a civil war general on the northern side. Our legal system you are not guilty of any crimes committed by your forefathers. Complex issues are truly simple if you do not tie them into a knot to support a point of view.
If you let what others think effect your opinion of yourself you give them a power that is or should be yours.

[graciegirl]

Here are more statistics on number of people shot to death by police by ethnicity and race since 2017.

• People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2021 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/)

[JMintzer]

Probably connected to turf wars over the drug trade in those areas.

Correct...


Most mass shooters have been white males.

Not entirely correct... If you go by the federal guidelines (4 or more people shot), yes more white males commit mass shootings. BUT... There are many more white males than any other ethnic group... If you go by per capita (which is a more accurate representation), you'll find very different results...

For example, since white males comprise approx 65-70% of the population, you would expect them to commit approx 65-70% of the mass shootings...

You would expect Blacks and Hispanics to commit approx 13-15% of the mass shootings each...

But this is not the case. White males commit less per capita, than either of the other groups...

[JMintzer]

Here are more statistics on number of people shot to death by police by ethnicity and race since 2017.

• People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2021 | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/)

So now the topic is "people shot by the police"?

Is there a program I can follow? I'm having trouble keeping up...

[DAVES]

Probably connected to turf wars over the drug trade in those areas. Most mass shooters have been white males.

Re-read post 14. It is impossible to find information that is not spun.

[DAVES]

So now the topic is "people shot by the police"?

Is there a program I can follow? I'm having trouble keeping up...

Most things are the same. Reality does not happen in neat folders. It all happens and always did happen in a convoluted related mess.

[Byte1]

I see no reason to once again rehash gun control. What everyone agrees on is that twice as many whites are shot and killed by Cops than blacks. The shootings in most cop related incidents are warranted/justified. Since there are millions of guns in America and very little shootings in comparison, the only function of gun control debate is to gather more political votes. Anyone with common sense knows that we do not have rampant shooting in America other than in the inner cities, most likely related to drug wars/gang wars. One is not guilty merely because they own firearms, regardless of what some loonies that do not even have a clue as to the definition of an assault weapon insist.
Firearms are NOT dangerous. People are dangerous. I have never owned a gun that has left my home by itself, armed and then fired upon any humans. I do not know of any instances where a firearm went on a mass killing spree.
To me, gun control means:
Sight alignment
Controlled breathing
Squeeze, don't jerk the trigger.
And regardless of what Biden once said, gun safety does NOT include shooting a shotgun up in the air to scare the bad guy away.

[jimjamuser]

My guess is that if you created a chart showing shooting and/or deaths by income groups, you would see a correlation. Less income = more shootings/deaths. Looking at the numbers that way makes more sense (to me at least). There are fewer low income whites (as a % of whites) so you would expect their numbers to be lower
Makes sense to me!

[jimjamuser]

Sadly, it is virtually impossible to find information on race, guns that is not spun by bias.
I find it interesting that the areas with the tightest gun controls are also the areas with the most shootings-New York, Chicago, LA.
I read that the FBI avoids making crime statistics BY RACE.

[stanley]

I read that the FBI avoids making crime statistics BY RACE.

Where did you read that?

[retiredguy123]

I read that the FBI avoids making crime statistics BY RACE.
This link seems to contradict that concept.

FBI — Table 43 (https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/table-43)

[graciegirl]

So now the topic is "people shot by the police"?

Is there a program I can follow? I'm having trouble keeping up...

I just posted what I thought to be accurate statistics.

I too am having trouble keeping up. Who are the bad guys?

[manaboutown]

I just posted what I thought to be accurate statistics.

I too am having trouble keeping up. Who are the bad guys?

The answer is obvious.

[Topspinmo]

My guess is that if you created a chart showing shooting and/or deaths by income groups, you would see a correlation. Less income = more shootings/deaths. Looking at the numbers that way makes more sense (to me at least). There are fewer low income whites (as a % of whites) so you would expect their numbers to be lower

You need to get out more often in rural American.

[Two Bills]

In UK there are very few deaths from gun crime.
Somewhere between 30-40 a year.
Guns in circulation are mainly with gangs.
Most gun deaths and crimes are gang related.
Win! Win!!

[LateBoomer]

13% of the population accounts for more than 50% of the violent crimes. an "uncomfortable truth" for many I guess

[LoisR]

Who are you looking to blame? How about the NRA and the politicians they support them?

[cegallup]

I am currently reading a recently published book (2021) that reveals statistics on violent crimes, including murders, committed within the USA by members of four "racial" groups: White, Black, Latino and Asian. The author shows boiled down results from relatively large data bases such as those kept by the FBI.

The facts are an eye opener!

The book is "Facing Reality" by Charles Murray.

It's not Politics - it's the demise of our culture.

The lawlessness in this country is shameful - and the "politicians" are at fault.

[birdawg]

So now the topic is "people shot by the police"?

Is there a program I can follow? I'm having trouble keeping up...
Let’s talk about percentages of people on television commercials

[Bay Kid]

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

[LateBoomer]

13% of the population accounts for more than 50% of the violent crimes. now that's a statistic that cannot be dismissed. just an "uncomfortable truth"

[nick demis]

As the saying goes "Guns don't kill. People kill". So maybe we should lock up the people that use the guns that kill. Just a new concept.

[Billy1]

A persons fear can be measured by the number of guns they have. Seek the love of God.

[J1ceasar]

That certainly is not the way to look at statistics

[J1ceasar]

One of the best places to look for statistics on crime and violence is that website maintained by the FBI. I will be very blunt and use the statistic most people quote that 83% of all violent crime is caused by 13% of the population mainly the black American Male. Further of all the deaths of black American males more than 80% is caused by other black American males . Police in their pursuit of their duties cause an incredibly minor percentage of deaths of blacks and even the police in those cases are mostly black.

All of that being said the statistics are actually probably much skewed to low. The FBI can only report on statistics that are given to them by the cities and states. As an example Rahm Emmanuel decided that crime reports in Chicago would not have a line to report the race of the victim or the perpetrator when he got elected as mayor of Chicago there for Chicago not show the very high growing rates by blacks that's one way to skew the reports. As someone reported crime is definitely related to income but as I always say your income is basically your own problem don't blame race color on income . Virtually every immigrant group excluding the blacks has raised themselves up from being poor. The Irish in the 1920s and the Jews learn to get jobs get their kids into colleges and grew incomes . The waves of Puerto Ricans and Cubans that have come in over the years have for the most part done the same. Indians and pakistanis has supported each other by giving loans to buy hotels restaurants etc. The blacks have not understood that education and income go hand in hand and you can't be blaming everyone but yourselves. I am not trying to make a totally blanket statement as obviously there are black Americans that are successful . And I certainly don't mean to cause offense to anyone so I apologize in advance. Please feel free to Google the statistics yourselves. I also want you to research several books by a Steven farren who postulates that the black races that came out of Africa have IQs that are several points lower than most of the world wide races. It's not a popular viewpoint but it has a huge statistical base

[graciegirl]

Let’s talk about percentages of people on television commercials

It appears that whoever guides the advertising agencies must be the real rulers of this land.

I cannot decide if the images we have seen over time of housewives in high heels and financially secure and quite beautiful families have made the world a better place but those scenes we see to sell us things most certainly do NOT represent the real world.

When parts of society are focused on certain groups to encourage social justice for them then we see great focus on those groups in television advertising EXCEPT I do NOT see a lot of Hispanic folks in advertising currently and I don't know why they are left out.

Anyhow YES. I have noticed that television advertising represent the world of the few and an unrealistic world.

[Swoop]

My guess is that if you created a chart showing shooting and/or deaths by income groups, you would see a correlation. Less income = more shootings/deaths. Looking at the numbers that way makes more sense (to me at least). There are fewer low income whites (as a % of whites) so you would expect their numbers to be lower
According to the US government, there are 6,534,462 blacks living below the poverty line in the US and 15,438,528 whites living below the poverty line. Based on your hypothesis whites should be twice as likely to commit a crime with a gun, or be shot than blacks.
But in reality, blacks are more likely to commit gun violence and twice as likely to die from gun violence than whites.

[b0bd0herty]

Your chart is on "deaths" by ethnicity... Not "shootings"...

It says nothing about who is doing the shooting...

And what does your last comment have to do with your initial topic?

Believe she is looking for company. Someone to share her belongings with. ;)
(The above is humor folks... used to be prevalent a few years back)

[Snprentice]

I feel the same way. Working and earning a living is something to be proud of no matter of skin color. If more people of color felt this way, there would be less need for living off the government and less time for killing each other.

[graciegirl]

I usually think of you as a voice of reason among the chaos...having a LEGAL firearm in your house that you are trained to use has no meaning in your post. Telling us you have none in your house has even less. *sigh*

Has the final bastion on this forum becoming biased. Say it ain't so.

I am 81 years old. I have never known or seen or heard of a shooting in my neighborhood. We both have tried to work hard and save and not buy foolish or unneeded things so that our children could live in a safe area with good schools. We enjoyed that kind of life and so we continued to pick safe areas to live.

Not everyone has or should have a political philosophy that hits every single thing of the party they recently voted for. We feel safe and when we do not feel safe we will buy things or change things. So far. So good. I don't know what the future will bring but I don't have any thing anyone would want. The kids don't even want the dishes. I don't like expensive jewelry and even thieves can buy their own TV set and have it put in the car for not a lot of dough. I would feel quite nice if someone would steal one of my paintings.

I am kidding around but don't let this white hair fool ya. You run your railroad and I'll run mine.

[MandoMan]

Kaiser Family Foundation - Media Bias/Fact Check (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/kaiser-family-foundation/)

Deaths Due to Firearms per 100,000 Population by Race/Ethnicity | KFF (https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22 :%22asc%22%7D)

This is from 2019. Has it changed much since then?

We haven't guns in our house, but many friends have guns.

It takes a year or more for the FBI statistics on shooting nationwide and by state to come out, but before that, some cities or states release their own statistics. I believe I’ve read in the NYTimes that shootings have been up a lot in poorer areas of cities. I think Covid drove many young people stir crazy, and staying home in a cramped apartment for a year has probably destroyed a lot of marriages, and losing jobs and not being able to pay the rent has caused immense stress. Thus, more shootings and more deaths.

Yes, the statistics for firearms deaths are accurate. Only half as many Hispanics die from being shot by firearms as do Euro-Americans, and twice as many African-Americans. Noticing that isn’t racist. It’s just statistics. We should add that among African-Americans, the vast majority of those shot and killed are young males from impoverished neighborhoods, and the shooters are nearly always young African-American males from impoverished neighborhoods. The shootings are generally gang or drug related. The Brady report quoted above says, “Gun homicide (mass shootings, so-called “everyday” violence, and police-involved shootings) is a universal American threat. But Black Americans are ten times more likely than White Americans to die from it. And Black youth fare even worse. Black children and teens are fourteen times more likely to die from gun homicide than their White counterparts.” The FBI reports show that in the vast majority of cases, whites shoot whites, blacks shoot blacks, and Hispanics shoot Hispanics, and in all ethnicities, the shooters are usually poor, young, and male, and drugs and alcohol and gangs are generally involved.

I would conclude from the above that you and I live in one of the safest places in America. Violence here seems to be nearly always between men and women or grown children living together, following arguments and drinking, and the physical manifestation of that is likely a push or a slap. The spiritual and emotional manifestations are much worse than the physical, alas. I’d say spend that extra money doing something fun with your husband instead of buying a gun you will never need to use.

[Joe C.]

Gracie, you'll never get an accurate answer to your post. There's just too much complicated information that can be spun to anyone's advantage. The subject matter is as controversial as politics, religion and covid vaccinations.

[KYtoTV2021]

George Floyd died about 15 months ago. Since then, blacks have murdered about 10,000 other blacks. Can you name two? One? Me either.




Kaiser Family Foundation - Media Bias/Fact Check (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/kaiser-family-foundation/)

Deaths Due to Firearms per 100,000 Population by Race/Ethnicity | KFF (https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22 :%22asc%22%7D)

This is from 2019. Has it changed much since then?

We haven't guns in our house, but many friends have guns.

[Bogie Shooter]

Let’s talk about percentages of people on television commercials
I see people in nearly every commercial.
Why don’t you say what you mean???
Is this called a dog whistle?

[lkagele]

Who are you looking to blame? How about the NRA and the politicians they support them?

To my knowledge the NRA has not killed one single sole.

[graciegirl]

Gracie, you'll never get an accurate answer to your post. There's just too much complicated information that can be spun to anyone's advantage. The subject matter is as controversial as politics, religion and covid vaccinations.

I know that. I knew that. I was attempting to define the problem and gather facts.

[Blackbird45]

What should be looked at is not race and shooting, but poverty.
When the person is in a position in life and wants to keep it that way.
The usually stay out of trouble.

[lkagele]

Sadly, it is virtually impossible to find information on race, guns that is not spun by bias.
I find it interesting that the areas with the tightest gun controls are also the areas with the most shootings-New York, Chicago, LA.

You're correct. Strict gun control has little effect on gun crime.

What does have an effect on gun violence is the strict adherence to law and order. We need to stop identifying gun violence as a race/social justice/poverty/police brutality/etc issue. When law enforcement is allowed to do its job and the prosecution of criminals is done properly, gun violence is reduced substantially.

Take a look at the leadership of the cities with the highest rate of gun violence. That leadership has commonalities. It has reduced the effectiveness of its police force. And, it has reduced the legal jeopardy associated with all criminal acts.

[Bucco]

[QUOTE=graciegirl;1963359]I know that. I knew that. I was attempting to define the problem and gather facts.[/QhUOTE]
—————————————-
Any death by gun (any death actually) is a tragedy for all involved. Does not matter the race, ethnicity or anything else. Placing labels to discuss is fruitless.

Understanding the “why” requires much much more than the color of ones skin, unless you actually believe those with a dark skin are actually born to kill people or violate the law.

As others have stated, and is my opinion, so much killing is a result of economics. Yes, there are some bad people by nature, economic frustration and desperation drive people to extremes. Add an ingredient of being looked at, as a human being, as being different or inferior (no matter the color of skin) and that drives many the wrong way.

[Bucco]

I see people in nearly every commercial.
Why don’t you say what you mean???
Is this called a dog whistle?

Yes it is. Folks simply look for things to hate....fear....make less of than themselves.....whatever.

As long as we do that, future is grim. People are people and it is that simple.

And thanks for calling this what it is Bogie.

[Rr23070]

Really…how many shootings have there been in TV?

[taruffi57]

Why "twist" the simple posting?

[LateBoomer]

[QUOTE=graciegirl;1963359]I know that. I knew that. I was attempting to define the problem and gather facts.[/QhUOTE]
—————————————-
Any death by gun (any death actually) is a tragedy for all involved. Does not matter the race, ethnicity or anything else. Placing labels to discuss is fruitless.

Understanding the “why” requires much much more than the color of ones skin, unless you actually believe those with a dark skin are actually born to kill people or violate the law.

As others have stated, and is my opinion, so much killing is a result of economics. Yes, there are some bad people by nature, economic frustration and desperation drive people to extremes. Add an ingredient of being looked at, as a human being, as being different or inferior (no matter the color of skin) and that drives many the wrong way.

studies/statistics say otherwise. if poverty were the primary factor in violent crime, then why does places in rural West Virginia or Florida have so much less violent crime. rates? If poverty were the cause of crime, the per capita crime rate among poor people would exhibit a strong correlation with socio-economic status, but no correlation at all with race among people who are equally rich or equally poor. to the contrary, statistics show that there’s an even stronger correlation between crime and race than there is between crime and social class. The best predictor of the crime rates in an area is almost always its racial demographics. sorry if you can't deal with facts, but this IS a fact.

Until this country can be honest about the facts - that one group in society is very disproportionately committing crime, and its largely not discussed because it's an uncomfortable truth, we will never have honesty. People see whats going on, no matter how many people are "taking knees", babbling about "social justice" (whatever on earth THAT means, anyway).

if the majority group in this country was committing 4x the amount of crime as the ones not in the majority, I'm sure that's all we'd hear about. but it's the opposite.

liberals are simply dishonest because the truth does not fit their narrative

[taruffi57]

So what are the perps ethnicity percentages? (we all know that general answer)

[manaboutown]

The reality is the mean weighted by population ratios of one minority I need not name to whites across 13 large cities is 11.2 for violent crimes, 21 for arrests for murder and 5.6 for property crimes. These statistics are reported in Chapter 4 of the book I previously noted and come from large databases.

[JMintzer]

In UK there are very few deaths from gun crime.
Somewhere between 30-40 a year.
Guns in circulation are mainly with gangs.
Most gun deaths and crimes are gang related.
Win! Win!!

Most gun deaths in the US are "gang related", as well...

[JMintzer]

Who are you looking to blame? How about the NRA and the politicians they support them?

Yes, the NRA (and their members) are out there shooting people...

[JMintzer]

A persons fear can be measured by the number of guns they have. Seek the love of God.

Bwahahaha!

[JMintzer]

I am 81 years old. I have never known or seen or heard of a shooting in my neighborhood. We both have tried to work hard and save and not buy foolish or unneeded things so that our children could live in a safe area with good schools. We enjoyed that kind of life and so we continued to pick safe areas to live.

Not everyone has or should have a political philosophy that hits every single thing of the party they recently voted for. We feel safe and when we do not feel safe we will buy things or change things. So far. So good. I don't know what the future will bring but I don't have any thing anyone would want. The kids don't even want the dishes. I don't like expensive jewelry and even thieves can buy their own TV set and have it put in the car for not a lot of dough. I would feel quite nice if someone would steal one of my paintings.

I am kidding around but don't let this white hair fool ya. You run your railroad and I'll run mine.

Every neighborhood is safe... Until it isn't...

This family lived in one of the safest neighborhoods in MD.

Two of the daughters babysat my kids...

Handyman is charged in slayings of 4 Potomac family members, painter - Baltimore Sun (https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1995-07-22-1995203036-story.html)

[graciegirl]

Every neighborhood is safe... Until it isn't...

This family lived in one of the safest neighborhoods in MD.

Two of the daughters babysat my kids...

Handyman is charged in slayings of 4 Potomac family members, painter - Baltimore Sun (https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1995-07-22-1995203036-story.html)

I don't think of that area is safe at all. I chose to live here. It is safe for now and when it isn't our plans will change.

Crime in Baltimore
Baltimore, Maryland, U.S. is notorious for its significantly high crime rate, including a violent crime rate that ranks high above the national average. Violent crime spiked in 2015 after the death of Freddie Gray on April 19, 2015, which touched off riots and an increase in murders. The city recorded 348 homicides in 2019, a number second only to the number recorded in 1993 when the population was nearly 125,000 higher.

[Bill14564]

I don't think of that area is safe at all. I chose to live here. It is safe for now and when it isn't our plans will change.

Crime in Baltimore
Baltimore, Maryland, U.S. is notorious for its significantly high crime rate, including a violent crime rate that ranks high above the national average. Violent crime spiked in 2015 after the death of Freddie Gray on April 19, 2015, which touched off riots and an increase in murders. The city recorded 348 homicides in 2019, a number second only to the number recorded in 1993 when the population was nearly 125,000 higher.

The paper is the Baltimore Sun, the crime was committed in Potomac MD. Equating the two is like looking for Royal Carribean cruise ships on Lake Sumter because the Daily Sun had an article about them.

Also note that the article is 26 years old. Has anyplace not been touched by violence of some sort in the last 26 years?

[LateBoomer]

Every neighborhood is safe... Until it isn't...

This family lived in one of the safest neighborhoods in MD.

Two of the daughters babysat my kids...

Handyman is charged in slayings of 4 Potomac family members, painter - Baltimore Sun (https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1995-07-22-1995203036-story.html)


you do get the concept of "probabilities" right? You're not going to suggest that Potomac, MD is as dangerous as Baltimore, are you? You want to play that game? I can show you stats all day long.

Potomac violent crime is 3.3. (The US average is 22.7)
Potomac property crime is 8.2. (The US average is 35.4)

Baltimore violent crime is 77.8. (The US average is 22.7)
Baltimore property crime is 67.6. (The US average is 35.4)

so I guess we need to discuss probabilities - the Baltimore violent crime rate 23.57 TIMES higher than Potomac, MD and the property crime rate is 8.2 times higher.

but sure, bring out an article about a murder 26 years ago. probabilities mean NOTHING. LOL

and by the way, Potomac has not had a murder since before 2007 at least. NONE. probably longer than that, but that's the only as far as i could find statistics. Baltimore is on pace for like 400 murders THIS YEAR.

so your point is.....?

[Two Bills]

Most gun deaths in the US are "gang related", as well...

Then it's a Win! Win! for US as well then.
Who cares if the bad guys all shoot each other.
The more the merrier!

[JMintzer]

I don't think of that area is safe at all. I chose to live here. It is safe for now and when it isn't our plans will change.

Crime in Baltimore
Baltimore, Maryland, U.S. is notorious for its significantly high crime rate, including a violent crime rate that ranks high above the national average. Violent crime spiked in 2015 after the death of Freddie Gray on April 19, 2015, which touched off riots and an increase in murders. The city recorded 348 homicides in 2019, a number second only to the number recorded in 1993 when the population was nearly 125,000 higher.

Who the hell was talking about Baltimore? Yes, that place has become a sh!thole...

The story I linked was in Potomac, MD... Try googling that...

Reading is fundamental...

[JMintzer]

you do get the concept of "probabilities" right? You're not going to suggest that Potomac, MD is as dangerous as Baltimore, are you? You want to play that game? I can show you stats all day long.

Potomac violent crime is 3.3. (The US average is 22.7)
Potomac property crime is 8.2. (The US average is 35.4)

Baltimore violent crime is 77.8. (The US average is 22.7)
Baltimore property crime is 67.6. (The US average is 35.4)

so I guess we need to discuss probabilities - the Baltimore violent crime rate 23.57 TIMES higher than Potomac, MD and the property crime rate is 8.2 times higher.

but sure, bring out an article about a murder 26 years ago. probabilities mean NOTHING. LOL

and by the way, Potomac has not had a murder since before 2007 at least. NONE. probably longer than that, but that's the only as far as i could find statistics. Baltimore is on pace for like 400 murders THIS YEAR.

so your point is.....?

Want me to list the current stats?

Property crime is way up. There have been more than several murders since.

Less than 10 miles away, MS-13 is killing people weekly...

I picked that incidence for it's depravity and the fact that I knew the family...

[Road-Runner]

Only half as many Hispanics die from being shot by firearms as do Euro-Americans, and twice as many African-Americans.

Statistics and 'labels' will often lie. If you ever read a police blotter website like the one for Brevard County, Florida one thing begins to stand out. MOST with obviously Latin features and names like Rodriguez and Aurelio are listed as 'white' not 'Hispanic'. Easily half or more are listed this way meaning the crimes they commit are attributed to whites as well. I'd love to see some statistics that showed just 'Euro-Americans', I'm betting they would make an even starker comparison to the 13%.

[LateBoomer]

lol. less than 10 miles away. in the DC area, 10 miles is an ETERNITY. yes, please tell me how crime is virtually the same wherever you live. that there is no difference. lol

don't be a fool

[LateBoomer]

I lived in the DC area for 20 years. I know quite a lot about it. guessing you never have? probably never even HEARD of Potomac, MD.

but let me educate you. here's a recent crime heat map. Take I dunno a WILD guess how the demographics relate to this map? Also, take a wild guess where Potomac is ? just north, outside the DC border, along the river above the deepest green area.
any clue as to what that means?

it's called probabilities. Crime 'can' happen anywhere. But in general, it is far more likely to happen in some areas compared to others. but I guess you skipped the day they taught probabilities in college?

[spd2918]

It's the culture, not the ethnicities, not poverty, and not gun ownership (my guns have never killed anyone, despite being mostly unsupervised).

Many young black men enjoy a culture of violence and most of their victims are other young black men engaging in the same cultural practices. Play stupid games and you will win stupid prizes.

Their is a correlation between bad cultural practices and the bad financial practices that lead to poverty. That is very different than poverty causing crime. Its bad parenting and bad culture.

Fatherlessness is the number one factor in criminality and the number one factor in poverty. Follow the statistics for any group whose culture places little value on fatherhood and you find major problems. Double down for teen mothers who let their kids be raised by grandparents.

The "13% of the popularion" statistic is a bit misleading, as the blacks that commit the majority of the killings are overwhelmingly male (half of the 13%, or 6.5%) and young (maybe 2.5% or so of the US population). That is much more sobering.

I find it interesting that one political party manages all the most violent cities and then blames the other party. The government sure as hell only makes things worse with their communist policies and racial "education" blame game.

[Irishmen]

Most gun deaths in the US are "gang related", as well...

Yep. People don't invade others homes unless they know what's inside. In the UK, its knives instead of guns.

[Justus]

I worked with a guy that owned a fully automatic sub machine gun and competed in shooting matches for this class of weapons. A friend of his was from the D.C. area where he competed in sub machine gun matches in the east coast area. He said that Brady was an avid shooter who owned a sub machine gun and competed frequently in matches in that area.
Yes, and sadly, when he became a vegetable, Sarah Brady devoted her life to destroying the Second Amendment, and got fame and fortune doing it. Her efforts would have been better spent lobbying to get nut cases like Hinkley off the streets, but that was not nearly so glamourous a pursuit. So here we sit 40 years later, innocent gun owners having to defend their Constitutional right to defend themselves and their families against the thugs terrorizing our neighborhoods.

[Justus]

[QUOTE=graciegirl;1963359]I know that. I knew that. I was attempting to define the problem and gather facts.[/QhUOTE]
—————————————-
Any death by gun (any death actually) is a tragedy for all involved. Does not matter the race, ethnicity or anything else. Placing labels to discuss is fruitless.

Understanding the “why” requires much much more than the color of ones skin, unless you actually believe those with a dark skin are actually born to kill people or violate the law.

As others have stated, and is my opinion, so much killing is a result of economics. Yes, there are some bad people by nature, economic frustration and desperation drive people to extremes. Add an ingredient of being looked at, as a human being, as being different or inferior (no matter the color of skin) and that drives many the wrong way.

If economics were the cause, the Welfare State would have solved the problem of violence. It has failed miserably. The societal destruction of the nuclear family is the proximate cause of today's youth gang affiliation, drugs and violence. An insidious, organized effort to remove parental control has left children without guidance and a sense of right and wrong. We have created a monster. Throwing money at it is a horrible solution. "As the twig is bent, so grows the tree..." Taking guns from law-abiding citizens is not the answer!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Yes, and sadly, when he became a vegetable, Sarah Brady devoted her life to destroying the Second Amendment, and got fame and fortune doing it. Her efforts would have been better spent lobbying to get nut cases like Hinkley off the streets, but that was not nearly so glamourous a pursuit. So here we sit 40 years later, innocent gun owners having to defend their Constitutional right to defend themselves and their families against the thugs terrorizing our neighborhoods.

And yet, you rarely ever hear about anyone who DOES defend their families against thugs terrorizing their neighborhoods with their lawfully carried guns.

In fact (thought I mentioned this up-thread, or in another thread): of all the mass shootings that have occurred in the US over the past few years, NONE of them were stopped by a lawfully-carrying citizen defending himself or his community against the shooter.

None.

One shooter was stopped but not until he killed a whole bunch of people in the church, and left the church and tried to run away.

Almost doesn't count.

[Justus]

A persons fear can be measured by the number of guns they have. Seek the love of God. People who don't own guns should put a sign on their homes indicating such, so that perps will break into those houses of us fearful people with guns. We'll see how that works...

[Justus]

And yet, you rarely ever hear about anyone who DOES defend their families against thugs terrorizing their neighborhoods with their lawfully carried guns.

In fact (thought I mentioned this up-thread, or in another thread): of all the mass shootings that have occurred in the US over the past few years, NONE of them were stopped by a lawfully-carrying citizen defending himself or his community against the shooter.

None.

One shooter was stopped but not until he killed a whole bunch of people in the church, and left the church and tried to run away.

Almost doesn't count. Not true. The MSM does not report these cases because it contradicts their position. It doesn't mean they don't happen. Open yourself up to some real facts. Please read "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott...a former anti-gun advocate who researched the facts.

[stanley]

And yet, you rarely ever hear about anyone who DOES defend their families against thugs terrorizing their neighborhoods with their lawfully carried guns.

In fact (thought I mentioned this up-thread, or in another thread): of all the mass shootings that have occurred in the US over the past few years, NONE of them were stopped by a lawfully-carrying citizen defending himself or his community against the shooter.

None.

One shooter was stopped but not until he killed a whole bunch of people in the church, and left the church and tried to run away.

Almost doesn't count.

You really need to do some research. There are many instances that a mass killing was stopped, thwarted, by an armed citizen, and some more that were stopped while that shooting was in progress. A simple search will prove you wrong.............again.
You also have to realize most mass killings are done in "gun free zones" where the "normal" armed citizen obeys the law.

[JMintzer]

And yet, you rarely ever hear about anyone who DOES defend their families against thugs terrorizing their neighborhoods with their lawfully carried guns.

In fact (thought I mentioned this up-thread, or in another thread): of all the mass shootings that have occurred in the US over the past few years, NONE of them were stopped by a lawfully-carrying citizen defending himself or his community against the shooter.

None.

One shooter was stopped but not until he killed a whole bunch of people in the church, and left the church and tried to run away.

Almost doesn't count.

He killed two and would have killed more if not for the civilian who stopped him...

Texas church shooting: Gunman killed by churchgoer named - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50952443)

And here are multiple cases where a civilian stopped a shooter...

Mass Shootings & Armed Civilians Who Stop Them | National Review (https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/in-missouri-a-good-guy-with-a-gun-stepped-up-so-can-you/)

Logic would tell you that no one can stop a mass shooting before it begins because you don't know it's going to happen until the shooter starts shooting...

I know... Logic has no place in these discussions...

[manaboutown]

And yet, you rarely ever hear about anyone who DOES defend their families against thugs terrorizing their neighborhoods with their lawfully carried guns.

In fact (thought I mentioned this up-thread, or in another thread): of all the mass shootings that have occurred in the US over the past few years, NONE of them were stopped by a lawfully-carrying citizen defending himself or his community against the shooter.

None.

One shooter was stopped but not until he killed a whole bunch of people in the church, and left the church and tried to run away.

Almost doesn't count.

The mainstream media rarely publishes news of lawful gun owners stopping all sorts of crimes from murder down to shop lifting. That is why we "rarely ever hear" about it. It literally happens nearly every day somewhere in the USA.

[Bill14564]

And yet, you rarely ever hear about anyone who DOES defend their families against thugs terrorizing their neighborhoods with their lawfully carried guns.

In fact (thought I mentioned this up-thread, or in another thread): of all the mass shootings that have occurred in the US over the past few years, NONE of them were stopped by a lawfully-carrying citizen defending himself or his community against the shooter.

None.

One shooter was stopped but not until he killed a whole bunch of people in the church, and left the church and tried to run away.

Almost doesn't count.

Opinion: Do citizens (not police officers) with guns ever stop mass shootings? (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/) (2015)

In Missouri, a Good Guy With a Gun Stepped Up — So Can You (https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/in-missouri-a-good-guy-with-a-gun-stepped-up-so-can-you/) (2019)

[John41]

And yet, you rarely ever hear about anyone who DOES defend their families against thugs terrorizing their neighborhoods with their lawfully carried guns.

In fact (thought I mentioned this up-thread, or in another thread): of all the mass shootings that have occurred in the US over the past few years, NONE of them were stopped by a lawfully-carrying citizen defending himself or his community against the shooter.

None.

One shooter was stopped but not until he killed a whole bunch of people in the church, and left the church and tried to run away.

Almost doesn't count.

You are living in a CNN news bubble. A bubble you deride The Villages for being. Two gun cases in the news just recently. But then I watch FOX instead of leftist censored propaganda.

[graciegirl]

People who don't own guns should put a sign on their homes indicating such, so that perps will break into those houses of us fearful people with guns. We'll see how that works...

Oh stop. Almost all people who get themselves all het up about this have testosterone. People who lived in areas like the Midwest lived at the time and near people who hunted rabbits etc for food and they had guns. Almost every farm girl could shoot fairly well. I think most people are smart enough to sense the changes that happen. There is now more crimes in Mount Dora and Leesburg and more violent ones in Wildwood than there were fifteen years ago. You can talk until the cows come home but we didn't all just fall off the turnip truck. I know about guns, my grandfather and uncle were police officers for decades.

You run your railroad and I will run mine. It is too late to talk about removing guns from those that have them. That ship has sailed. That horse is out of the barn. Now we deal with assessing what is happening because we cannot affix a moral direction into adults who have been raised by someone their parents would not trust with the car keys.

[Justus]

Oh stop. Almost all people who get themselves all het up about this have testosterone. People who lived in areas like the Midwest lived at the time and near people who hunted rabbits etc for food and they had guns. Almost every farm girl could shoot fairly well. I think most people are smart enough to sense the changes that happen. There is now more crimes in Mount Dora and Leesburg and more violent ones in Wildwood than there were fifteen years ago. You can talk until the cows come home but we didn't all just fall off the turnip trump. I know about guns, my grandfather and uncle were police officers for decades.

You run your railroad and I will run mine. It is too late to talk about removing guns from those that have them. That ship has sailed. That horse is out of the barn. Now we deal with assessing what is happening because we cannot affix a moral direction into adults who have been raised by someone their parents would not trust with the car keys.

If you'd read my post, it was tongue-in-cheek in response to the person who labeled legal gun owners as fearful. I repeat...put the thugs away and leave the law-abiding, legally gun-owning citizens alone. There has been a concerted effort to remove guns from the law-abiding, as opposed to doing that. So that's my railroad...

[graciegirl]

If you'd read my post, it was tongue-in-cheek in response to the person who labeled legal gun owners as fearful. I repeat...put the thugs away and leave the law-abiding, legally gun-owning citizens alone. There has been a concerted effort to remove guns from the law-abiding, as opposed to doing that. So that's my railroad...

I apologize. I see that you do deserve your name. I was wrong. I will try to do better.

[stanley]

The mainstream media rarely publishes news of lawful gun owners stopping all sorts of crimes from murder down to shop lifting. That is why we "rarely ever hear" about it. It literally happens nearly every day somewhere in the USA.

I love reading "The Armed Citizen" when America's First Freedom mag gets here.
But it is the NRA so few will click on this link.....................

https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen/

...................and if they do they won't read much of it

[Number 10 GI]

And yet, you rarely ever hear about anyone who DOES defend their families against thugs terrorizing their neighborhoods with their lawfully carried guns.

In fact (thought I mentioned this up-thread, or in another thread): of all the mass shootings that have occurred in the US over the past few years, NONE of them were stopped by a lawfully-carrying citizen defending himself or his community against the shooter.

None.

One shooter was stopped but not until he killed a whole bunch of people in the church, and left the church and tried to run away.

Almost doesn't count.

In the American Rifleman, a magazine I receive for being an NRA member, publishes every month a list of 6 - 8 articles from city newspapers citing incidents where legally armed citizens using their firearm to protect themselves and others from criminals. All you have to do is go to the newspaper cited as the source to verify it is true. It is estimated that armed American legally use their personal firearm to stop a crime over 2 millions times a year. This doesn't mean they shot someone to stop the crime. In many cases, just the simple brandishing of the firearm caused the criminal to stop and go elsewhere and find an easier target.
The only reason you don't hear about legally armed citizens thwarting a criminal act is that it doesn't meet the "If it bleeds it leads" mentality of our sorry excuse for journalists. Plus it goes against the media's anti-gun propaganda, can't have a positive story about gun ownership.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

In the American Rifleman, a magazine I receive for being an NRA member, publishes every month a list of 6 - 8 articles from city newspapers citing incidents where legally armed citizens using their firearm to protect themselves and others from criminals. All you have to do is go to the newspaper cited as the source to verify it is true. It is estimated that armed American legally use their personal firearm to stop a crime over 2 millions times a year. This doesn't mean they shot someone to stop the crime. In many cases, just the simple brandishing of the firearm caused the criminal to stop and go elsewhere and find an easier target.
The only reason you don't hear about legally armed citizens thwarting a criminal act is that it doesn't meet the "If it bleeds it leads" mentality of our sorry excuse for journalists. Plus it goes against the media's anti-gun propaganda, can't have a positive story about gun ownership.

I'm not a gun fan. I'm personally against firearms. All of them. I'm absolutely anti-NRA as it exists today.

But if I ever read a story in a mainstream newspaper, or on mainstream TV, about a citizen in Las Vegas carrying her weapon legally, and managing to successfully prevent the mass shooter by getting him first square in the middle of his forehead, I would be VERY happy to have read it. I would have joined in the masses hailing her as a hero.

That didn't happen though.

It also didn't happen at the Pulse nightclub. Or in Newtown CT. Or at Stoneman Douglas High. Or Rockford IL, Tampa FL, Boynton Beach FL, Atkins, Arkansas, Chicago, Venus, TX, or any of the other dozens of shootings involving more than one victim in a public location around the country in the past few years.

Rapid-fire weapons exist to harm as many people as possible in the shortest period of time. That is why they were invented, why they are marketed, why they exist. Sure lots of people just use them for target shooting at the range. But that's not what they're for.

And no one has successfully stopped a mass shooter from shooting masses with rapid-fire weapons - and in fact, no one has even TRIED to shoot a mass shooter while the mass shooter was actively shooting people...

If someone had stepped up, it would've made national news.

Threatening Jimbob from stealing yer beer at the redneck rave isn't newsworthy (unless Jimbob's throat gets slit or his mom gets impaled on a log, which actually happened this week).

[LateBoomer]

yeah? and gun bans work so well. as in Chicago???

again, the problem with folks like you is that you think that guns just jump up and shoot people all by themselves, because its an unspeakable horror to actually assign blame to criminals, especially when they fall extremely within a fairly small segment of society.

in fact, seems like some of you are actually cheering on criminals and do anything you can to assist them - no more requiring cash bail. Defunding the police. Decriminalizing crimes to the point where it becomes commonplace (see what's going on in SF at the moment).

I get it. it's part of a political narrative. but the rest of us? I think we'll protect ourselves thanks

[Bill14564]

I'm not a gun fan. I'm personally against firearms. All of them. I'm absolutely anti-NRA as it exists today.

But if I ever read a story in a mainstream newspaper, or on mainstream TV, about a citizen in Las Vegas carrying her weapon legally, and managing to successfully prevent the mass shooter by getting him first square in the middle of his forehead, I would be VERY happy to have read it. I would have joined in the masses hailing her as a hero.
Does it also have to happen on a Tuesday, in the Fall, after 8PM, and with the sun shining at a 45 degree angle in order to be valid for you?

You wrote you had heard of NONE, you were provided links to several, you choose to ignore the data.

That didn't happen though.

It also didn't happen at the Pulse nightclub. Or in Newtown CT. Or at Stoneman Douglas High. Or Rockford IL, Tampa FL, Boynton Beach FL, Atkins, Arkansas, Chicago, Venus, TX, or any of the other dozens of shootings involving more than one victim in a public location around the country in the past few years.
Of course it didn't happen in those cases, if it HAD happened then there wouldn't be those cases.

You don't hear about mass shootings that were prevented because, well, they were not mass shootings. Articles are written about the citizens preventing the tragedies but they aren't as sexy and don't make the national news.

Plus, you were provided with cases where that DID happen and you chose to ignore them which could lead one to believe that you are a tad biased and have somewhat selective memory.

Rapid-fire weapons exist to harm as many people as possible in the shortest period of time. That is why they were invented, why they are marketed, why they exist. Sure lots of people just use them for target shooting at the range. But that's not what they're for.

And no one has successfully stopped a mass shooter from shooting masses with rapid-fire weapons - and in fact, no one has even TRIED to shoot a mass shooter while the mass shooter was actively shooting people...

If someone had stepped up, it would've made national news.
Again, you were provided with articles, you choose to ignore them.

Threatening Jimbob from stealing yer beer at the redneck rave isn't newsworthy (unless Jimbob's throat gets slit or his mom gets impaled on a log, which actually happened this week).

[Joe V.]

I'm not a gun fan. I'm personally against firearms. All of them. I'm absolutely anti-NRA as it exists today.

But if I ever read a story in a mainstream newspaper, or on mainstream TV, about a citizen in Las Vegas carrying her weapon legally, and managing to successfully prevent the mass shooter by getting him first square in the middle of his forehead, I would be VERY happy to have read it. I would have joined in the masses hailing her as a hero.

That didn't happen though.

It also didn't happen at the Pulse nightclub. Or in Newtown CT. Or at Stoneman Douglas High. Or Rockford IL, Tampa FL, Boynton Beach FL, Atkins, Arkansas, Chicago, Venus, TX, or any of the other dozens of shootings involving more than one victim in a public location around the country in the past few years.

Rapid-fire weapons exist to harm as many people as possible in the shortest period of time. That is why they were invented, why they are marketed, why they exist. Sure lots of people just use them for target shooting at the range. But that's not what they're for.

And no one has successfully stopped a mass shooter from shooting masses with rapid-fire weapons - and in fact, no one has even TRIED to shoot a mass shooter while the mass shooter was actively shooting people...

If someone had stepped up, it would've made national news.

Threatening Jimbob from stealing yer beer at the redneck rave isn't newsworthy (unless Jimbob's throat gets slit or his mom gets impaled on a log, which actually happened this week).


"and in fact, no one has even TRIED to shoot a mass shooter while the mass shooter was actively shooting people..."

A quick web search will prove you wrong. I found dozens of incidents where mas shooters have been downed by armed civilians. I do not need to list all of them here as they are innumerable. Do some homework on your own. But here is just a small sampling:

-- Former National Rifle Association instructor who lives next door to the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Spring, Texas, grabbed his AR-15-style rifle after hearing the gunfire and went over to investigate. Confronting the shooter, Devin Kelley, Willeford shot him in the leg and torso before Kelley dropped his weapon and fled the scene in his SUV.


-- In 1997, the assistant principal of Mississippi’s Pearl High School, Joel Myrick, used the .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol he kept in his truck to detain 16-year-old Luke Woodham after the teenager stabbed and bludgeoned to death his mother at home and killed two students and injured seven at the high school.

-- In 2007, Matthew Murray killed four people at Colorado Spring church before being shot by church member and volunteer security guard Jeanne Assam.

--An Uber driver with a concealed-carry permit shot and wounded a gunman who opened fire on a crowd of people in Chicago’s Logan Square.

-- An usher at a Tennessee church used his personal firearm to subdue a masked gunman who had already killed one woman in the church’s parking lot and injured six others inside.

Your posts tend always to be full of insults and lack of truth. Intellectually lazy much are you?

[spd2918]

Its a free country (so far). If you don't like guns, don't get one. But you are not going to prevent me from defending myself because gang bangers are killing each other in blue cities.

I saw a movie once in which only the police and the military had guns. It was called "Schindler's List."

[JMintzer]

I'm not a gun fan. I'm personally against firearms. All of them. I'm absolutely anti-NRA as it exists today.

But if I ever read a story in a mainstream newspaper, or on mainstream TV, about a citizen in Las Vegas carrying her weapon legally, and managing to successfully prevent the mass shooter by getting him first square in the middle of his forehead, I would be VERY happy to have read it. I would have joined in the masses hailing her as a hero.

That didn't happen though.

It also didn't happen at the Pulse nightclub. Or in Newtown CT. Or at Stoneman Douglas High. Or Rockford IL, Tampa FL, Boynton Beach FL, Atkins, Arkansas, Chicago, Venus, TX, or any of the other dozens of shootings involving more than one victim in a public location around the country in the past few years.

Rapid-fire weapons exist to harm as many people as possible in the shortest period of time. That is why they were invented, why they are marketed, why they exist. Sure lots of people just use them for target shooting at the range. But that's not what they're for.

And no one has successfully stopped a mass shooter from shooting masses with rapid-fire weapons - and in fact, no one has even TRIED to shoot a mass shooter while the mass shooter was actively shooting people...

If someone had stepped up, it would've made national news.

Threatening Jimbob from stealing yer beer at the redneck rave isn't newsworthy (unless Jimbob's throat gets slit or his mom gets impaled on a log, which actually happened this week).

You've been given multiple instances of exactly those things. You just (as usual) choose to ignore them...

[Swoop]

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89927&stc=1&d=1624478658

[Bogie Shooter]

Reading anti/pro gun threads is like reading pro/anti dog poop threads……..no conclusion is ever made.🤔

[Byte1]

I'm not a gun fan. I'm personally against firearms. All of them. I'm absolutely anti-NRA as it exists today.

But if I ever read a story in a mainstream newspaper, or on mainstream TV, about a citizen in Las Vegas carrying her weapon legally, and managing to successfully prevent the mass shooter by getting him first square in the middle of his forehead, I would be VERY happy to have read it. I would have joined in the masses hailing her as a hero.

That didn't happen though.

It also didn't happen at the Pulse nightclub. Or in Newtown CT. Or at Stoneman Douglas High. Or Rockford IL, Tampa FL, Boynton Beach FL, Atkins, Arkansas, Chicago, Venus, TX, or any of the other dozens of shootings involving more than one victim in a public location around the country in the past few years.

Rapid-fire weapons exist to harm as many people as possible in the shortest period of time. That is why they were invented, why they are marketed, why they exist. Sure lots of people just use them for target shooting at the range. But that's not what they're for.

And no one has successfully stopped a mass shooter from shooting masses with rapid-fire weapons - and in fact, no one has even TRIED to shoot a mass shooter while the mass shooter was actively shooting people...

If someone had stepped up, it would've made national news.

Threatening Jimbob from stealing yer beer at the redneck rave isn't newsworthy (unless Jimbob's throat gets slit or his mom gets impaled on a log, which actually happened this week).

I do not wish to be one of many to gang up on you, BUT I would like to remind you that most of the mass shootings are conducted in "Gun Free Zones" such as schools, movie theaters, bars, etc. If one was to utilize a legally obtained weapon inside one of those places to STOP a mass shooting, I guarantee that that person would be charged and never allowed to legally possess a firearm again.

I also hear that it is the folks that are scared that have the guns. Some of us were gifted guns that meant something to someone. Some of us enjoy target shooting, and in my case just not good at archery. Like I said in an earlier post, my guns have never left the house on their own power and started a mass shooting. In my opinion, that kind of proves that guns are not killing folks. People are dangerous. Some folks carry concealed. Why ? Because we wish to be able to protect those that we care about. No matter how much martial arts training we have, we do get older. AND, no matter how good you are, there is always someone better. A weapon is an equalizer. Let's be honest, humans are violent. That will never change. Some more violent than others.
If you are scared of guns, don't own one. I don't like certain cars, but I will not tell you that you cannot own one.

[Number 10 GI]

I'm not a gun fan. I'm personally against firearms. All of them. I'm absolutely anti-NRA as it exists today.

But if I ever read a story in a mainstream newspaper, or on mainstream TV, about a citizen in Las Vegas carrying her weapon legally, and managing to successfully prevent the mass shooter by getting him first square in the middle of his forehead, I would be VERY happy to have read it. I would have joined in the masses hailing her as a hero.

That didn't happen though.

It also didn't happen at the Pulse nightclub. Or in Newtown CT. Or at Stoneman Douglas High. Or Rockford IL, Tampa FL, Boynton Beach FL, Atkins, Arkansas, Chicago, Venus, TX, or any of the other dozens of shootings involving more than one victim in a public location around the country in the past few years.

Rapid-fire weapons exist to harm as many people as possible in the shortest period of time. That is why they were invented, why they are marketed, why they exist. Sure lots of people just use them for target shooting at the range. But that's not what they're for.

And no one has successfully stopped a mass shooter from shooting masses with rapid-fire weapons - and in fact, no one has even TRIED to shoot a mass shooter while the mass shooter was actively shooting people...

If someone had stepped up, it would've made national news.

Threatening Jimbob from stealing yer beer at the redneck rave isn't newsworthy (unless Jimbob's throat gets slit or his mom gets impaled on a log, which actually happened this week).

So if you don't read about it, it didn't happen. Very enlightened thinking! If you will do some searching on the internet you will find numerous stories of private citizens protecting themselves with a firearm reported by local news agencies. The national media won't touch those stories because it goes against their anti-gun stance. Many of those places you cited are gun free zones so there wouldn't be any honest citizens there carrying their weapon in order to stop the criminal. Nearly all concealed carry classes tells you that you are not a LEO and do not to try and step in and stop a criminal unless you or family/friends are in immediate danger. You carry a weapon to protect yourself and those close to you, not the general public.

[JMintzer]

IIf you are scared of guns, don't own one. I don't like certain cars, but I will not tell you that you cannot own one.

But cars never killed anyo...

Oh, wait...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6a/dd/4a/6add4ae35c0cf597802322fd048b38ff.gif

[JMintzer]

Nearly all concealed carry classes tells you that you are not a LEO and do not to try and step in and stop a criminal unless you or family/friends are in immediate danger. You carry a weapon to protect yourself and those close to you, not the general public.

Yup!

[Aloha1]

:popcorn:
Having some popcorn waiting to see which of the "usual suspects" will cause this thread to be closed. Any bets?

[JMintzer]

:popcorn:
Having some popcorn waiting to see which of the "usual suspects" will cause this thread to be closed. Any bets?

Some of them seem to have gone missing for the past day or so...

Maybe a "time-out" was given?

[stanley]

:popcorn:
Having some popcorn waiting to see which of the "usual suspects" will cause this thread to be closed. Any bets?

Nah.....this isn't their "expertise". Well at least one will keep quiet.

[marksaint]

One of the sites that provides this type of info on Large Metro Areas, ie., (Chicago) is and this is the correct web address
"HeyJackass.com "
Statistical data back to I think 2015.

[Get real]

I read that the FBI avoids making crime statistics BY RACE.

They don't...but they should. Race is not the issue. Class is the issue. Race baiting is a for profit industry for politicians and hustlers.

[Aloha1]

Some of them seem to have gone missing for the past day or so...

Maybe a "time-out" was given?

One can only hope.

[John41]

In the American Rifleman, a magazine I receive for being an NRA member, publishes every month a list of 6 - 8 articles from city newspapers citing incidents where legally armed citizens using their firearm to protect themselves and others from criminals. All you have to do is go to the newspaper cited as the source to verify it is true. It is estimated that armed American legally use their personal firearm to stop a crime over 2 millions times a year. This doesn't mean they shot someone to stop the crime. In many cases, just the simple brandishing of the firearm caused the criminal to stop and go elsewhere and find an easier target.
The only reason you don't hear about legally armed citizens thwarting a criminal act is that it doesn't meet the "If it bleeds it leads" mentality of our sorry excuse for journalists. Plus it goes against the media's anti-gun propaganda, can't have a positive story about gun ownership.

We are NRA and USCCA members and agree with what you wrote.

[LateBoomer]

One can only hope.
nope. just bored of quoting facts to people that only have narratives based on nothing

[jimbomaybe]

One of the sites that provides this type of info on Large Metro Areas, ie., (Chicago) is and this is the correct web address
"HeyJackass.com "
Statistical data back to I think 2015. up until recently there was a web site SSC (second city Cop) that posted a lot of inside information (supposedly) as to what was going on at the street level of Chicago as well as political maneuverings, much of which latter were proven correct, this of course was embarrassing for some people in power/ authority, the site went down and has yet to return, you would get more and better info there than the media,, oh well

[Irishmen]

I'm not a gun fan. I'm personally against firearms. All of them. I'm absolutely anti-NRA as it exists today.

But if I ever read a story in a mainstream newspaper, or on mainstream TV, about a citizen in Las Vegas carrying her weapon legally, and managing to successfully prevent the mass shooter by getting him first square in the middle of his forehead, I would be VERY happy to have read it. I would have joined in the masses hailing her as a hero.

That didn't happen though.

It also didn't happen at the Pulse nightclub. Or in Newtown CT. Or at Stoneman Douglas High. Or Rockford IL, Tampa FL, Boynton Beach FL, Atkins, Arkansas, Chicago, Venus, TX, or any of the other dozens of shootings involving more than one victim in a public location around the country in the past few years.

Rapid-fire weapons exist to harm as many people as possible in the shortest period of time. That is why they were invented, why they are marketed, why they exist. Sure lots of people just use them for target shooting at the range. But that's not what they're for.

And no one has successfully stopped a mass shooter from shooting masses with rapid-fire weapons - and in fact, no one has even TRIED to shoot a mass shooter while the mass shooter was actively shooting people...

If someone had stepped up, it would've made national news.

Threatening Jimbob from stealing yer beer at the redneck rave isn't newsworthy (unless Jimbob's throat gets slit or his mom gets impaled on a log, which actually happened this week).

lol rapid fire weapons

[fishon]

Church shooter killed by parishioner.
Firearms instructor took out gunman at Texas church service - ABC News (https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/armed-congregants-kill-gunman-shot-texas-church-67981290)

[Bill14564]

Another, more recent, example of a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun. Unfortunately, it didn't work out well for the good guy.

A 'heroic' man who fatally shot a gunman was himself killed by a responding officer, Colorado police say (https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/26/us/arvada-colorado-police-shot-good-samaritan/index.html)

[LateBoomer]

They don't...but they should. Race is not the issue. Class is the issue. Race baiting is a for profit industry for politicians and hustlers.

as with a study posted earlier, class is statistically related to violent crime, but race has a stronger correlation to violence even after you account for poverty.

so no it's not just class.

to pretend otherwise is to have your head in the sand and deny reality