An you tell me…..

[Kcwombat]

I’m new to TV, having moved here in September. I see frequent references to the developer on these forums, and a lot of them are really negative. I’m really curious as to what the cause of the negativity might be. I don’t know much about the politics of The Villages, but would love to hear (read) what you all think. So far I’m still in my honeymoon stage here. Looking forward to your input, and now, off to golf!

[bagboy]

Some are envious. Some are jealous. Some think they can run things better than the developer, but with no investment or risk. Etc.... stay in your honeymoon mode and enjoy the lifestyle.

[JohnN]

Some are envious. Some are jealous. Some think they can run things better than the developer, but with no investment or risk. Etc.... stay in your honeymoon mode and enjoy the lifestyle.

Agreed. Everyone is an expert on how the developer should be benefitting the masses.
Instead, it's capitalim. Enjoy TV

[wisbad1]

I’m new to TV, having moved here in September. I see frequent references to the developer on these forums, and a lot of them are really negative. I’m really curious as to what the cause of the negativity might be. I don’t know much about the politics of The Villages, but would love to hear (read) what you all think. So far I’m still in my honeymoon stage here. Looking forward to your input, and now, off to golf!
Cause they got sooo much money. Boo hoo hoo. They took a chance, not us. Don’t like it move to Dell Webb

[oldtimes]

///

[Laker14]

They are rich and powerful. They got that way by developing a very successful senior living development. They did that by having an idea, or a bunch of ideas, and they made it happen. They made it happen by not letting too many other folks try to tell them what to do, or how to do it. They still don't let many other people tell them what to do, or how to do it.
When it is in their best interests, they'll spread some money around, maybe get some political support for their developments based upon who they know, and who they've supported with political donations. Some people don't like that. Some don't care. Some think that's the American Way, and love it.

At times they were less than totally forthcoming about what their plans were for future development, and their agents spread misinformation about what they called "build-out"...to the point that the term "build-out" is now a joke. Some people are deeply resentful about what they feel was essentially a lie, others don't care. Others love it. They no longer, from what I hear, promote the idea that they are going to ever stop developing. Some people don't like that, some don't care, and others love it.

They do what they do, and are making a good buck doing it. They have never forced anybody to live here. Yet, the people keep coming.
And coming. And coming. Some residents don't like that, some don't care, and some love it.

[Mortal1]

Ignore anyones take on the villages owners or developers and just enjoy your time retired. Everyone who posts here has an angle...good person....bad person....whatever. Why base your feelings or received information when you don't know the poster or their views on things???

I base my opinion on how much I enjoy it here. That's it. Retirement should be less stress...not more and opinions(mine included)are like arseholes....everyone has one and they mostly stink. And remember that a famous man once said, " you can't talk to stupid people."

[Stu from NYC]

Keep reading the comments here.

You will find some people will always post negative comments about the developer and some will always post positive.

Overall they have done a great job building this place but they do have a lot of control over local govt.

Not thrilled about that but we are here 16 months now and very happy to be here.

[retiredguy123]

I’m new to TV, having moved here in September. I see frequent references to the developer on these forums, and a lot of them are really negative. I’m really curious as to what the cause of the negativity might be. I don’t know much about the politics of The Villages, but would love to hear (read) what you all think. So far I’m still in my honeymoon stage here. Looking forward to your input, and now, off to golf!
I think all comments, positive and negative, about the developer are silly. You buy a house and pay the amenity fees. If you don't get your money's worth, then go somewhere else. It's just a contract, like buying a car.

[stanley]

Some people will be miserable no matter where they are

[dewilson58]

Some people will be miserable no matter where they are

:bigbow:

[perrjojo]

If you want to enjoy The Villages, you will. If you want to find reasons to be unhappy, you will. Some folks complain about everything. Some people don’t like change and TV is continuing to evolve. I like evolving better the becoming stale and stagnant.

[npwalters]

I recognize that some folks dislike the developers just because they are wealthy. That is, of course, stupid.

The current generation of "the developers" - the family - have earned disrespect by ignoring the promises made by the previous generation of their family. The plan to build high density apartments at the previous Hacienda country club site is the most egregious example. There have been many comments on that subject if you are interested.

Many residents were promised by Harold Schwartz that their homes would be centered around a country club and they would live that lifestyle for the rest of their life. Granted this promise was made orally and in person but the current family HAS to know it is true. They have chosen to break this promise and have gone to great lengths to make it happen.

I cannot respect any family (or organization) that will willingly break a promise made purely to make a few extra bucks.


BTW, I am a happy resident of TV. Being content does not mean one must be blind to what is happening around them.

[Ben Franklin]

I only have one complaint about the developer, and that is the use of socialism in place of impact fees. They are/were in bed with the politicians to get government to relax the impact fees, which means those of us already here pay for the impact created by those making the impact. But, it's not just this developer, they all do it. They even got the Governor to sign an impact fee ceiling. And then they turn around and tell us we need to accept personal responsibility.

With the impact of so many people, the roads will need to be widened, especially 301, from Warm Springs to Route 44. The other roads are Rolling Acres from 466 to 441 with 2 left hand turn lanes at 466 and Rolling Acres. Granted, those roads are not in TV, but they are impacted by the growing number of people in TV. Other than that, most things run pretty smoothly, at least what I'm aware of.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I only have one complaint about the developer, and that is the use of socialism in place of impact fees. They are/were in bed with the politicians to get government to relax the impact fees, which means those of us already here pay for the impact created by those making the impact. But, it's not just this developer, they all do it. They even got the Governor to sign an impact fee ceiling. And then they turn around and tell us we need to accept personal responsibility.

With the impact of so many people, the roads will need to be widened, especially 301, from Warm Springs to Route 44. The other roads are Rolling Acres from 466 to 441 with 2 left hand turn lanes at 466 and Rolling Acres. Granted, those roads are not in TV, but they are impacted by the growing number of people in TV. Other than that, most things run pretty smoothly, at least what I'm aware of.

They're not impacted by the growing number of people in TV. Rather, they are the direct result of the growing number of people in TV. The development of the Villages is the root cause of the need to widen those roads. Were it not for the further development of the Villages, the traffic would be less dense, and there would be no need to widen the roads.

Your tax dollars are paying for the expense created by the developer's choice to expand the community, precisely because they are granted heavy discounts on impact fees that developers in other parts of the state don't get.

[SIRE1]

When people talk about the "Developer" they speak as if the developer still owned The Villages and that they controlled every aspect of life here in our community. While it is true that the "Developer" built the community and still own most of the commercial buildings, a lot of us residents forget that we now OWN the rest of it. When a new housing area is completed, the developer essentially sells the community properties to a CDD and then We, and our respective CDD's & county government, are now the owners of our house and those community properties.

In any other new housing area anywhere in the rest of the country, once all the properties are sold the developer moves on to somewhere else and that is the last those people ever see of them. Here in The Villages, the developer has continued to build into new areas so they have remained visible and involved in the community. But a lot of the Villages residents feel that the "developer" still is running the entire community in a benefactor role. They expect the "developer" to continue being responsible for everything that happens and needs to happen in The Villages. We seem to forget that they are strictly land developers in business to make a profit. They have provided us a FANTASTIC place to live and play, and are continuing to provide things that from a marketing standpoint will make the selling of newly developed areas possible.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Yup, the comments pretty well sum it up.

Another point, TV has been here around 25 years, and yet, even the oldest parts still look great - everything is maintained and kept clean and manicured. Look around the country at other "TVs" and you will see most seldom make it more than a couple years, and those that do are dirty, run down and not some place I would want to live.

The developers are making a nice living (lots of money I assume) and I am happy they are, I hope the continue to make money and that TV grows and thrives.

More power to them.

One example of the issue was posted here a while back, a person moved here and THEN found out about the covenants. Many people mentioned that all of that was explained at closing. The complainers response was "there was so much paperwork, we didn't have time to read it all". Seriously, they were blaming the developers for "hiding" things in all the paperwork that they signed when handing over more than a 1/4 million dollars - because they didn't read the contract?

LOL... yup, I do not feel too sorry for them.

[Stu from NYC]

Yup, the comments pretty well sum it up.

Another point, TV has been here around 25 years, and yet, even the oldest parts still look great - everything is maintained and kept clean and manicured. Look around the country at other "TVs" and you will see most seldom make it more than a couple years, and those that do are dirty, run down and not some place I would want to live.

The developers are making a nice living (lots of money I assume) and I am happy they are, I hope the continue to make money and that TV grows and thrives.

More power to them.

One example of the issue was posted here a while back, a person moved here and THEN found out about the covenants. Many people mentioned that all of that was explained at closing. The complainers response was "there was so much paperwork, we didn't have time to read it all". Seriously, they were blaming the developers for "hiding" things in all the paperwork that they signed when handing over more than a 1/4 million dollars - because they didn't read the contract?

LOL... yup, I do not feel too sorry for them.

Our fault for not taking the time to read all the covenants.

I do wonder how the folks handling the resale if they sat and watch me read everything for a couple of hours.

[oldtimes]

I recognize that some folks dislike the developers just because they are wealthy. That is, of course, stupid.

The current generation of "the developers" - the family - have earned disrespect by ignoring the promises made by the previous generation of their family. The plan to build high density apartments at the previous Hacienda country club site is the most egregious example. There have been many comments on that subject if you are interested.

Many residents were promised by Harold Schwartz that their homes would be centered around a country club and they would live that lifestyle for the rest of their life. Granted this promise was made orally and in person but the current family HAS to know it is true. They have chosen to break this promise and have gone to great lengths to make it happen.

I cannot respect any family (or organization) that will willingly break a promise made purely to make a few extra bucks.


BTW, I am a happy resident of TV. Being content does not mean one must be blind to what is happening around them.

///

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

As for looking at the covenants: This is the same complaint I have about condo association agreements. Those can be an actual book - 2-inch thick binder filled with documents that you agree to, and aren't allowed to look at, until closing.

How do I know if I want to close at all, if I don't know what I'll be agreeing to, until the day of closing? How do I know if I'd agree to all the rules and regs, if I don't know until the day of closing?

The documents should be made public, available at the town/county assessor's office. For every single dwelling in every single condo complex or deeded community. There are some condo complexes that have different rules and regs for each building, or each set of buildings (Century Village is one of those complexes).

Barring that, a potential buyer should be given a copy of the rules/regs/deed requirements/community standards/contracts on the day they put down money to make an offer on a property. No one should have to be made to wait until closing to decide if they want to abide by the rules of the community.

[Aloha1]

I only have one complaint about the developer, and that is the use of socialism in place of impact fees. They are/were in bed with the politicians to get government to relax the impact fees, which means those of us already here pay for the impact created by those making the impact. But, it's not just this developer, they all do it. They even got the Governor to sign an impact fee ceiling. And then they turn around and tell us we need to accept personal responsibility.

With the impact of so many people, the roads will need to be widened, especially 301, from Warm Springs to Route 44. The other roads are Rolling Acres from 466 to 441 with 2 left hand turn lanes at 466 and Rolling Acres. Granted, those roads are not in TV, but they are impacted by the growing number of people in TV. Other than that, most things run pretty smoothly, at least what I'm aware of.

And here is a perfect example of what the previous posters were referring to. This is a GREAT place. Been here 5 years and love it. Walked in with eyes wide open and no regrets. No clue why people move here and immediately want to change TV into what THEY think it should be.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

And here is a perfect example of what the previous posters were referring to. This is a GREAT place. Been here 5 years and love it. Walked in with eyes wide open and no regrets. No clue why people move here and immediately want to change TV into what THEY think it should be.

The developer is changing it into what THEY think it should be, why is it bad for someone who actually lives here to want to change it into what THEY think it should be? It isn't what it started out - someone decided to change it into what they thought it should be.

And then, when it changed into what the developer thought it should be, he changed his mind and changed the community again. And then his son in law took over, and changed it again. And then his son in law died, and HIS kids changed it again.

Every time it changes, it moves further and further away from what it was ORIGINALLY intended to be.

If you don't have any problem with that, then you really have no argument against anyone else wanting to change it into what THEY think it should be.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Our fault for not taking the time to read all the covenants.

I do wonder how the folks handling the resale if they sat and watch me read everything for a couple of hours.

If I was buying or selling and the other party did not want to wait for me to read all the documents, I would run - not walk - away. Once upon a time in the US a long long time ago people did business with a handshake. No longer.

[GrumpyOldMan]

The developer is changing it into what THEY think it should be, why is it bad for someone who actually lives here to want to change it into what THEY think it should be? It isn't what it started out - someone decided to change it into what they thought it should be.

And then, when it changed into what the developer thought it should be, he changed his mind and changed the community again. And then his son in law took over, and changed it again. And then his son in law died, and HIS kids changed it again.

Every time it changes, it moves further and further away from what it was ORIGINALLY intended to be.

If you don't have any problem with that, then you really have no argument against anyone else wanting to change it into what THEY think it should be.

Sorry, it is not a democracy. It is a business. And from what I can see it has been a successful business for over 20 years.

How many people living in TV have 20 years of successful track record running a senior community? Just asking. Because I for one purchased here because it has been successful for that long. I don't know anyone that lives here well enough to trust any of them to make sound business decisions for me.

I purchased BECAUSE of the developers, not in spite of them. Nothing personal but I hope neither you nor anyone else that wants to change that ever gets the chance.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Sorry, it is not a democracy. It is a business. And from what I can see it has been a successful business for over 20 years.

How many people living in TV have 20 years of successful track record running a senior community? Just asking. Because I for one purchased here because it has been successful for that long. I don't know anyone that lives here well enough to trust any of them to make sound business decisions for me.

I purchased BECAUSE of the developers, not in spite of them. Nothing personal but I hope neither you nor anyone else that wants to change that ever gets the chance.

The person who originally developed the Villages is dead, and has been dead for a long time. His son-in-law, who took over, is also dead, and has been dead for several years.

"The Developers" are not the same developers who developed this community. The current batch of developers have a completely different vision for the community than the one you dealt with when you moved in. The current batch of developers didn't even have pubic hairs yet when their father took over the business, so no they haven't been doing this for 20 years.

[John41]

///

[mrrmauu]

I’m new to TV, having moved here in September. I see frequent references to the developer on these forums, and a lot of them are really negative. I’m really curious as to what the cause of the negativity might be. I don’t know much about the politics of The Villages, but would love to hear (read) what you all think. So far I’m still in my honeymoon stage here. Looking forward to your input, and now, off to golf!

Just look around. I find it amazing here and it seems like “the developer” keeps coming up with innovative ideas to make it better. Is it perfect? Is the developer perfect? No. But they’ve done a he11 of a job, and I appreciate their efforts and vision. Some here have unhinged hatred for them for various reasons but I just consider the source.

[nick demis]

Some are envious. Some are jealous. Some think they can run things better than the developer, but with no investment or risk. Etc.... stay in your honeymoon mode and enjoy the lifestyle.

Yup

[dewilson58]

The person who originally developed the Villages is dead, and has been dead for a long time. His son-in-law, who took over, is also dead, and has been dead for several years.


Exactly.

And yet there are the constant complainers stating, "Many residents were promised........... ".

Nothing never changes, adapt and enjoy life.

[noslices1]

I’m new to TV, having moved here in September. I see frequent references to the developer on these forums, and a lot of them are really negative. I’m really curious as to what the cause of the negativity might be. I don’t know much about the politics of The Villages, but would love to hear (read) what you all think. So far I’m still in my honeymoon stage here. Looking forward to your input, and now, off to golf!

Some people, in the Villages and in the area, don’t think the developer should make a profit on his vision to build a retirement community that out does every other retirement community in the world and some people just can’t be pleased.

[Rwirish]

Spot on

[noslices1]

And here is a perfect example of what the previous posters were referring to. This is a GREAT place. Been here 5 years and love it. Walked in with eyes wide open and no regrets. No clue why people move here and immediately want to change TV into what THEY think it should be.

Reminds me of people who leave $hithole countries and move to a place where everyone is happy and then try to change the new place into the place they moved from.

[Dilligas]

I recognize that some folks dislike the developers just because they are wealthy. That is, of course, stupid.

The current generation of "the developers" - the family - have earned disrespect by ignoring the promises made by the previous generation of their family. The plan to build high density apartments at the previous Hacienda country club site is the most egregious example. There have been many comments on that subject if you are interested.

Many residents were promised by Harold Schwartz that their homes would be centered around a country club and they would live that lifestyle for the rest of their life. Granted this promise was made orally and in person but the current family HAS to know it is true. They have chosen to break this promise and have gone to great lengths to make it happen.

I cannot respect any family (or organization) that will willingly break a promise made purely to make a few extra bucks.


BTW, I am a happy resident of TV. Being content does not mean one must be blind to what is happening around them.
We have been here for 10 years and love it because of the vision for a different retirement community. I have never heard any of the developer’s family make any “promises”. In fact they generally don’t announce anything until it is signed sealed and in the works. No good business person would make any “promise”, because they can not control the future. Most of the so called broken promises are just good business decisions. Katie Belles and Hacienda Country Club were closed because of poor management and loss of patron business. The developer generally only owns the property and leases the business. When the property fails, attempts were made to correct, but it continued to fail. Now they are complaining because they don’t want change. Compare TV to Sun City Florida and you will see why we like the developer, hope they continue.

[FromNY]

Almost 19years. People change, place changes. Not the warm friendly community that had soothing landscape and Buffalo. People change places change. Miss the Buffalo. The younger generation of developers are pandering to younger retirement people. They were not privileged to grow up with their grandfather or great-grandfather. They did not know the Buffalo.

[coffeebean]

They are rich and powerful. They got that way by developing a very successful senior living development. They did that by having an idea, or a bunch of ideas, and they made it happen. They made it happen by not letting too many other folks try to tell them what to do, or how to do it. They still don't let many other people tell them what to do, or how to do it.
When it is in their best interests, they'll spread some money around, maybe get some political support for their developments based upon who they know, and who they've supported with political donations. Some people don't like that. Some don't care. Some think that's the American Way, and love it.

At times they were less than totally forthcoming about what their plans were for future development, and their agents spread misinformation about what they called "build-out"...to the point that the term "build-out" is now a joke. Some people are deeply resentful about what they feel was essentially a lie, others don't care. Others love it. They no longer, from what I hear, promote the idea that they are going to ever stop developing. Some people don't like that, some don't care, and others love it.

They do what they do, and are making a good buck doing it. They have never forced anybody to live here. Yet, the people keep coming.
And coming. And coming. Some residents don't like that, some don't care, and some love it.

By George......I think you've got it!

[jjiggers]

I’m new to TV, having moved here in September. I see frequent references to the developer on these forums, and a lot of them are really negative. I’m really curious as to what the cause of the negativity might be. I don’t know much about the politics of The Villages, but would love to hear (read) what you all think. So far I’m still in my honeymoon stage here. Looking forward to your input, and now, off to golf!

Most are very happy with what "the developer" has created here, or they wouldn't be here, and are always free to move on! I would be pretty certain that they can get more for their home now than they paid for it, originally.

I think the business plan for this place is brilliant and I am happy for the powers that be to enjoy all the fruits of their labor as they continue to make it possible for more to enjoy its beauty. We have been here 17 years and have never been disappointed . It seems every year, more amenities are added. New walking trails, exercise areas, rec center activities, and golf courses. Just never enough for some. Recently, the bridges took a little longer than they thought, but most of the time, when they say something will happen, it does.
I know there are many complaints about apartments, but the new apartment dwellers in The Lofts, near Brownwood are thrilled to be able to have rental property here, with NO upkeep. Some like that lifestyle , sooo the developer is creating it for them.

There are always those who will complain and blame, any time there is change. Enjoy your honeymoon. We still are!

[KRMACK55]

I’m new to TV, having moved here in September. I see frequent references to the developer on these forums, and a lot of them are really negative. I’m really curious as to what the cause of the negativity might be. I don’t know much about the politics of The Villages, but would love to hear (read) what you all think. So far I’m still in my honeymoon stage here. Looking forward to your input, and now, off to golf!
Read the villagenews.com TOTV Utube and speak to others, lots of it is well founded. It will not change almost 50 years of the best marketing ever created. The power and influence not just here but the state of Florida is breathtaking.

[KRMACK55]

Some are envious. Some are jealous. Some think they can run things better than the developer, but with no investment or risk. Etc.... stay in your honeymoon mode and enjoy the lifestyle.
Wrong there are a lot of valid points by residents. Obviously it’s difficult to be objective.

[Phil D]

We moved here about 16 years ago,what we learned don't get involved with The Politics of the Villages it a great place to live.Play your golf go to the pool go out to eat join one of the thousands of clubs.And ENJOY your self you won't find a better place to live.

[KRMACK55]

They are rich and powerful. They got that way by developing a very successful senior living development. They did that by having an idea, or a bunch of ideas, and they made it happen. They made it happen by not letting too many other folks try to tell them what to do, or how to do it. They still don't let many other people tell them what to do, or how to do it.
When it is in their best interests, they'll spread some money around, maybe get some political support for their developments based upon who they know, and who they've supported with political donations. Some people don't like that. Some don't care. Some think that's the American Way, and love it.

At times they were less than totally forthcoming about what their plans were for future development, and their agents spread misinformation about what they called "build-out"...to the point that the term "build-out" is now a joke. Some people are deeply resentful about what they feel was essentially a lie, others don't care. Others love it. They no longer, from what I hear, promote the idea that they are going to ever stop developing. Some people don't like that, some don't care, and others love it.

They do what they do, and are making a good buck doing it. They have never forced anybody to live here. Yet, the people keep coming.
And coming. And coming. Some residents don't like that, some don't care, and some love it.
The villages sales staff have been less than ethical and are very aggressive in getting folks to buy here. Your vote is meaningless in the 3 counties. It’s not enough to keep some of us here and I’m hoping my sale goes through. There is a sense of entitlement here and that’s not who I am. To those who were kind to me the last 2 years i am grateful.

[J1ceasar]

As if Any place won't have issues?
. Sinkholes
To much, to little traffic, dues, people, golf courses, shops etc .

Cause they got sooo much money. Boo hoo hoo. They took a chance, not us. Don’t like it move to Dell Webb

[KRMACK55]

I think all comments, positive and negative, about the developer are silly. You buy a house and pay the amenity fees. If you don't get your money's worth, then go somewhere else. It's just a contract, like buying a car.
It is much more than that and you know it. Most work a lifetime sell their home in another location, put everything into a new home here. A Home is much more than a car.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Some are envious. Some are jealous. Some think they can run things better than the developer, but with no investment or risk. Etc.... stay in your honeymoon mode and enjoy the lifestyle.

Agree! I taught my daughter to aspire to all she could be. Why demonize success?

[RoadToad]

It is much more than that and you know it. Most work a lifetime sell their home in another location, put everything into a new home here. A Home is much more than a car.

The analogy was not a Car to a Home, rather a Contract to a Contract.

[Jayhawk]

Exactly.

And yet there are the constant complainers stating, "Many residents were promised........... ".

Nothing never changes, adapt and enjoy life.

Exactly.

And the great news is for those who didn't read the deed restrictions and don't like them, the resale market is red hot. Never a better time to find their way outta here.

[Saluce]

Some people will be miserable no matter where they are

100% True!!

[Jayhawk]

The villages sales staff have been less than ethical and are very aggressive in getting folks to buy here.

If this were true, which it is not, your sale should have no problem going through.

Good luck in your next unhappy place.

[Fisherman]

For me, my husband and I moved here 12 years ago as a working couple. Two years later, he died. We loved it here, built all together in a Village with a strong bond. There was little traffic and easy access to all the amenities. Getting Tee times was a breeze. The CC was a neighborhood bar like Cheers. Life changed overnight. The one and only reason I stay here is because of my life as a single widow. Many of you should think about that, because there are more and more people that retired here married and find themselves alone. I belong to four single clubs. They keep me young, active and provide the socialization that we all need. Otherwise, I would be gone, basically because of all the negative impacts of rapid growth, mostly the Villages have not proportionately built amenities to support the growth. In addition, there are not enough commercial entities to support the growth. The surrounding communities do not provide an adequate employment pool for these businesses. I also read these forums and see all the division, underlying political views, foolish negativity about living here and the nasty sarcastic attitudes by some of these people towards others feelings or views. For now, I choose to stay, the friendships with my single family are stronger than the inconveniences caused by the greed of the developers.

[Topspinmo]

I’m new to TV, having moved here in September. I see frequent references to the developer on these forums, and a lot of them are really negative. I’m really curious as to what the cause of the negativity might be. I don’t know much about the politics of The Villages, but would love to hear (read) what you all think. So far I’m still in my honeymoon stage here. Looking forward to your input, and now, off to golf!

You can answer that question yourself after you been here few years. Otherwise it’s just opinions.

[Topspinmo]

Reminds me of people who leave $hithole countries and move to a place where everyone is happy and then try to change the new place into the place they moved from.

Insert states instead of countries? Then I can agree with it. :)

[kimmerlie]

I've been here 14 years and have loved every minute of it! The developers have made it our "heaven on earth". Why do you think it keeps growing?

[Linnberg]

I recognize that some folks dislike the developers just because they are wealthy. That is, of course, stupid.

The current generation of "the developers" - the family - have earned disrespect by ignoring the promises made by the previous generation of their family. The plan to build high density apartments at the previous Hacienda country club site is the most egregious example. There have been many comments on that subject if you are interested.

Many residents were promised by Harold Schwartz that their homes would be centered around a country club and they would live that lifestyle for the rest of their life. Granted this promise was made orally and in person but the current family HAS to know it is true. They have chosen to break this promise and have gone to great lengths to make it happen.

I cannot respect any family (or organization) that will willingly break a promise made purely to make a few extra bucks.


BTW, I am a happy resident of TV. Being content does not mean one must be blind to what is happening around them.

Stated the facts short and sweet. Love the Villages, do not like some of the changes - apartments, low impact fees for builder causing residents to have to pay for their continuing development. Originally roads paid for by developers. Major change is cheaper golf cart paths etc that will deteriorate much faster and again have to be paid by residents.
Still happy with the lifestyle.

[DAVES]

I’m new to TV, having moved here in September. I see frequent references to the developer on these forums, and a lot of them are really negative. I’m really curious as to what the cause of the negativity might be. I don’t know much about the politics of The Villages, but would love to hear (read) what you all think. So far I’m still in my honeymoon stage here. Looking forward to your input, and now, off to golf!

I have a friend who says as they get older they do not get better, they get worse.

They are everywhere. People who always have and always will criticize what others have done and are doing rather than doing anything or accomplish anything themselves.

I had nothing to do with it. I met a disabled elderly lady. Some neighbors complained that her wheelchair ramp was not properly painted. It went on for a while. Fines?
Other neighbors got together, threw a barbecue, repaired the ramp and painted it.

You chose which group you wish to belong. We, every place has/have both.

[Hank’s mom]

I love it!!

[kendi]

I’m new to TV, having moved here in September. I see frequent references to the developer on these forums, and a lot of them are really negative. I’m really curious as to what the cause of the negativity might be. I don’t know much about the politics of The Villages, but would love to hear (read) what you all think. So far I’m still in my honeymoon stage here. Looking forward to your input, and now, off to golf!

The complainers want the largest audience possible so they turn to social media. Makes it seem like they're in the majority which is often not the case. I for one am very impressed with the developers' amazing talent and commitment for TV to be a viable and active place to live.

[Bogie Shooter]

Almost 19years. People change, place changes. Not the warm friendly community that had soothing landscape and Buffalo. People change places change. Miss the Buffalo. The younger generation of developers are pandering to younger retirement people. They were not privileged to grow up with their grandfather or great-grandfather. They did not know the Buffalo.

I suspect you miss the buffalo.🥱

[jmcica@aol.com]

We have been here for 10 years and love it because of the vision for a different retirement community. I have never heard any of the developer’s family make any “promises”. In fact they generally don’t announce anything until it is signed sealed and in the works. No good business person would make any “promise”, because they can not control the future. Most of the so called broken promises are just good business decisions. Katie Belles and Hacienda Country Club were closed because of poor management and loss of patron business. The developer generally only owns the property and leases the business. When the property fails, attempts were made to correct, but it continued to fail. Now they are complaining because they don’t want change. Compare TV to Sun City Florida and you will see why we like the developer, hope they continue.
And that is the reason why we are looking forward to our move to TV-forward thinking business people- I don’t want to be in an environment that is stuck in the 80’s, 90’s or even 2000. Love all the new ideas the family has. And if that changes- we will move on.

[WindyCityzen]

What a hoot. You say Socialism? What about libraries, fire and police departments, parks, or your free Covid shot? Republicans love to attack “socialism,” but are total hypocrites in doing so.

[bagboy]

And that is the reason why we are looking forward to our move to TV-forward thinking business people- I don’t want to be in an environment that is stuck in the 80’s, 90’s or even 2000. Love all the new ideas the family has. And if that changes- we will move on.

:clap2:

[LieutenantEd]

Within our large circle of Villages friends over the past few years two couples moved away (to other retirement communities in Florida) for what they perceived as “more desirable location”. Both have moved back to The Villages!

[manaboutown]

What a hoot. You say Socialism? What about libraries, fire and police departments, parks, or your free Covid shot? Republicans love to attack “socialism,” but are total hypocrites in doing so.

This is a false statement.

[LoriL]

I agree that some do not like the fact that the current generation has not respected the wishes of their elders. That does not mean they do not like it here. The Villages is fabulous, but it is getting rather large. During the season, it gets. more and more difficult to get into restaurants, etc. I do not think this has anything to do with jealousy.

[dewilson58]

I agree that some of us do not like the fact that the current generation has not respected the wishes of their elders.

The Villages is fabulous, but it is getting too big.

A FEW elders................most love the excitement and growth of TV.

Too big??...........your opinion. So you want a land development company to stop developing. :ohdear:

[paultkdski]

I retired 3 years ago.. but googled the secret to happiness… It boils down to: low expectations. That’s right… be thankful and enjoy.

People that complain about the fees don’t see how litte you get elsewhere… People that complain about growth, dont realize how little it affects them… I’d love the complainers to either volunteer or vote with their moving vans….

[tovliteuser]

Within our large circle of Villages friends over the past few years two couples moved away (to other retirement communities in Florida) for what they perceived as “more desirable location”. Both have moved back to The Villages!

Those two couples figured out what most of us already knew. Hands down, there is no better place to retire in Florida or anywhere else in the US. I knew it the first time I visited as a renter in 2017 and I know it now as an owner. Not perfect, mind you, just the best. I feel the same way about capitalism. It's the very worst form of government - except for all the rest.

[Juliebythesea]

I’m new to TV, having moved here in September. I see frequent references to the developer on these forums, and a lot of them are really negative. I’m really curious as to what the cause of the negativity might be. I don’t know much about the politics of The Villages, but would love to hear (read) what you all think. So far I’m still in my honeymoon stage here. Looking forward to your input, and now, off to golf!


I love it here. I don’t care what they may have promised regarding expanding. It’s a business and businesses are designed to make money. I’m delighted with everything Don’t see why people are complaining

[carpej]

We love living here. Most of the people that we know or have run across at the restaurants, golf courses, clubs , etc. seem to feel the same way. If you consider 120000 or more residents, notice how few are complaining. And if you boil it down many of the negatives are somewhat political in nature. In all very few individuals are actually complaining. My only opinion on the Developers is that they seem to give us quality and variety.

[DaleDivine]

I love it here. I don’t care what they may have promised regarding expanding. It’s a business and businesses are designed to make money. I’m delighted with everything Don’t see why people are complaining
I'm with you Julie. I love it here as well. Tons of golf courses (and lots more coming) which was my main reason for moving here. I play a different golf course almost every day. Not like some of the other retirement communities with only one or two courses that you play over and over.
:bigbow::bigbow:

[Curtisbwp]

My wife and I have been here since 2003 and are very happy.
People have a tendency to dislike, sight unseen, people who have money that they do not have. The village residents lean on the management to solve ALL OF THEIR PROBLEMS. THE developer is a house builder and seller, Not a Mayor. Most do not even know what town they live in.

[Aloha1]

The person who originally developed the Villages is dead, and has been dead for a long time. His son-in-law, who took over, is also dead, and has been dead for several years.

"The Developers" are not the same developers who developed this community. The current batch of developers have a completely different vision for the community than the one you dealt with when you moved in. The current batch of developers didn't even have pubic hairs yet when their father took over the business, so no they haven't been doing this for 20 years.
The original developer was Harold Schwartz. He started TV with Orange Blossom Gardens in the mid 70's. His SON, Gary Morse came on board in 1983 and headed the company until his death in 2014. His son, Mark, Harold's grandson, took over in 2014 as President but had worked for the company before that and heads the company today. Both Harold and Gary were visionaries. Mark is no different. You roll with the times or you get rolled up. Keeping TV a viable place for retirees keeps our home values up. So, yeah, Mark Morse has been involved with TV for more than 20 years.

[Aloha1]

The villages sales staff have been less than ethical and are very aggressive in getting folks to buy here. Your vote is meaningless in the 3 counties. It’s not enough to keep some of us here and I’m hoping my sale goes through. There is a sense of entitlement here and that’s not who I am. To those who were kind to me the last 2 years i am grateful.

I get it and good move. Obviously you are not happy here and you chose the wise choice to move. Good luck with that. But please stop throwing shade as you leave.

[Aloha1]

I agree that some do not like the fact that the current generation has not respected the wishes of their elders. That does not mean they do not like it here. The Villages is fabulous, but it is getting rather large. During the season, it gets. more and more difficult to get into restaurants, etc. I do not think this has anything to do with jealousy.
Restaurants will come if the need is there. Patience, grasshopper.

[npwalters]

We have been here for 10 years and love it because of the vision for a different retirement community. I have never heard any of the developer’s family make any “promises”. In fact they generally don’t announce anything until it is signed sealed and in the works. No good business person would make any “promise”, because they can not control the future. Most of the so called broken promises are just good business decisions. Katie Belles and Hacienda Country Club were closed because of poor management and loss of patron business. The developer generally only owns the property and leases the business. When the property fails, attempts were made to correct, but it continued to fail. Now they are complaining because they don’t want change. Compare TV to Sun City Florida and you will see why we like the developer, hope they continue.

The fact that YOU didn't hear it does not make it false. Come talk to the long time residents near the Hacienda area. A pledge/promise made by a organization does not become void just because the leadership changed. New leadership just chose to break it.

[oldtimes]

The fact that YOU didn't hear it does not make it false. Come talk to the long time residents near the Hacienda area. A pledge/promise made by a organization does not become void just because the leadership changed. New leadership just chose to break it.

///

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

A FEW elders................most love the excitement and growth of TV.

Too big??...........your opinion. So you want a land development company to stop developing. :ohdear:

LoriL is talking about the current generation of the family running the Developer corporation not respecting the generation that used to be in charge of it, but are now too busy being dead to reprimand them for going against their wishes.

[dewilson58]

talking about the current generation of the family running the Developer corporation not respecting the generation that used to be in charge of it,

Speculation by a few Village Whiners.
No facts.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I love it here. I don’t care what they may have promised regarding expanding. It’s a business and businesses are designed to make money. I’m delighted with everything Don’t see why people are complaining

So if they tear down the home behind yours, and put up a for-profit inpatient drug rehab center in its place you'll be okay with that. Afterall, it's a business, and businesses are designed to make money.

[dewilson58]

So if they tear down the home behind yours, and put up a for-profit inpatient drug rehab center in its place you'll be okay with that. Afterall, it's a business, and businesses are designed to make money.

So many issues with this type of argument and is part of the reason there is not wide support for stopping advancements.

Nothing is being torn down in anyone's backyard........it's on the other side of a golf course.

Nothing is going from residential property to commercial property.

:sing:

[GrumpyOldMan]

So many issues with this type of argument and is part of the reason there is not wide support for stopping advancements.

Nothing is being torn down in anyone's backyard........it's on the other side of a golf course.

Nothing is going from residential property to commercial property.

:sing:

Please respect the TOTV tradition and do not attempt to answer any posts with facts.

[dewilson58]

Please respect the TOTV tradition and do not attempt to answer any posts with facts.

Please accept my apology. :ho:

[Retiring]

I think it’s just pushback against those that think the developer walks on water.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I think it’s just pushback against those that think the developer walks on water.

Pretty much, yeah. They know that though. They're the ones who used to throw the dodge ball in their opponent's face in the playground. Even when they're right, they're still bullies.

[Rsenholzi]

First a history lesson. Mr Schwartz was the original developer for this area. He had a dream that he wanted to build an area for the “average guy” to live out their final days in an affordable area filled with activities for them. In those days you could see Mr. Schwartz walking down the street talking to the average guy. He was a personable , friendly man who cared about people. His goal was to keep the area small and affordable. As the area got bigger, he made a promise to all that the area would never get too large to forget the people.
When he passed, the children and grandchildren took over and their greed set in. Suddenly the people were forgotten and services were taken away, taxes were raised in the newer area by 25% in one year. This directly related to the impact fees. Studies weren’t done at how the building would affect the people. Instead the people were expected to “pay” for the impact of the new areas instead of the developer absorbing the costs who was the one making all the money from the building. The “villagers” were expected to pay for new services such as roads, fire depts, police depts, etc. when the people balked at this they “bought” the people making those decisions. If fact, in Sumter , one man makes all the decisions relating to the expansion of the villages. He makes close to $400,000 a year paid for by the developers. Naturally, he’s not going to bite the hand that feeds him so he votes their way instead of the wish of the area people. When the people balked at the expansion , he disregarded an entire room of people as well as an overflow crowd expressing negative comments regarding the expansion, yet he stopped a citizen who wanted to build a carport onto his home on his multi acre farm. They even went so far as buying a senator again by paying his salary, who stopped the impact fees that were going to be accessed so as to keep taxes down to the village people. The people don’t want apartments at La Hacienda or in the squares. Lake county voted them down in Spanish Springs. They are now being brought to court by the developers despite an overflowing crowding wanting them voted down. Those commissioners listened to the people there since they live outside the Villages. As for La Hacienda , they took away the country club for the area residents and are now putting multistory apartments there instead. They were told if they didn’t vote for the apartments they would build a multistory parking garage there instead.
So you see , it is the fact that Mr Schwartz’s dream is being ruined of the Villages being for the “average guy” by greedy children and grandchildren and that is why there is such unrest among the people of the Villages.

[HoosierPa]

It’s class envy.

Also most retirees have a lot of spare time on their hands mixed with the class envy and there you have it.

Me? I’m going to enjoy my retirement and hope the family makes a lot of money !

[Koapaka]

I liken this argument to cruising......what it is today vs what it was when we started 30 yrs ago is basically very different.....anything that does not DIE continues to grow and has to evolve....be it human or a business. There will be people that are taking their first cruise POST COVID that will think it is amazing.....but for us we are probably done doing something we enjoyed very much, because we realize the changes that are required will be just too much for us to be able to enjoy anymore. When you can not go where you want when you want without an apt (gym, dining, shows, even the buffets according to todays article in Cruise News), just takes the fun out of it for us. We ENJOY waking up when we want and doing what we choose vs having to "schedule" everything by appointment for "contact tracing" purposes to comply with the CDC requirements.

If you have not experienced this kind of growth and evolution in ANY business you use today vs 30 yrs ago, and BENEFITED from it, I would have to assume you suffer from serious memory issues.

If I was as miserable living here as some of you seem to be, I would change what I could, vs whining all the time.

[Love2Swim]

Long time residents are aware that the Developer has done some shady things in the past and can't be trusted. Research the class action lawsuit brought against The developer due to misuse of amenity funds, that was settled to the tune of something like $40 million.

[Bay Kid]

I sure am glad they developed TVs. No place like it on earth!

[dewilson58]

[QUOTE=Rsenholzi;1965087 So you see , it is the fact that Mr Schwartz’s dream is being ruined of the Villages being for the “average guy” by greedy children and grandchildren and that is why there is such unrest among the people of the Villages.[/QUOTE]

Another posting with no facts.

The average 60 year old makes over $85,000.
The average 60 year old has a net worth over $1,200,000
The "average guy" can still afford The Villages, nothing is ruined.

"Unrest"...............is by a very, very small group of people.
Where in the USA is there not a very, very small group of unhappy people.

:ho:

[Blueblaze]

I wonder if Spruce Creek has Dell Webb haters.

We've been attempting to find a reasonably priced villa to rent out lately, and when we got priced out of the Villages, we started looking in Spruce Creek -- which reminded me why we bought our retirement home in the Villages.

The golf course there was empty and the greens had brown patches and bare spots that I could see from the road. Here, people complain when they can't get a morning tee time in the off season, and if it quits raining for a month they complain about brown patches in the fairways. We even have people sneaking on to play golf when the course is closed!

There, the sole community center was a ghost town. Here, the paper's weekly publication of the activities in all dozens of community centers is bigger than the Sports or Living sections. And get this -- we even have our own paper!

Here in the summer heat, golf carts are zooming around everywhere, and everyone I meet on my morning walk waves and gives me a "good morning!". There, they have big lawns with fences, but you'd have to bang on some doors to discover if anyone lives in those little painfully-identical houses. You certainly don't see them on the streets.

I live in a 20-year-old "village", that I'm sure "the developer" could care less about. The streets are still beautiful, the flowers still blooming, the lawns still manicured, the pools full of people, the public places still look like they were built yesterday. In Spruce Creek the only flowers I saw were next to someone's front porch.

How do you know you're in a great place to live? Complainers!

[oldtimes]

I wonder if Spruce Creek has Dell Webb haters.

We've been attempting to find a reasonably priced villa to rent out lately, and when we got priced out of the Villages, we started looking in Spruce Creek -- which reminded me why we bought our retirement home in the Villages.

The golf course there was empty and the greens had brown patches and bare spots that I could see from the road. Here, people complain when they can't get a morning tee time in the off season, and if it quits raining for a month they complain about brown patches in the fairways. We even have people sneaking on to play golf when the course is closed!

There, the sole community center was a ghost town. Here, the paper's weekly publication of the activities in all dozens of community centers is bigger than the Sports or Living sections. And get this -- we even have our own paper!

Here in the summer heat, golf carts are zooming around everywhere, and everyone I meet on my morning walk waves and gives me a "good morning!". There, they have big lawns with fences, but you'd have to bang on some doors to discover if anyone lives in those little painfully-identical houses. You certainly don't see them on the streets.

I live in a 20-year-old "village", that I'm sure "the developer" could care less about. The streets are still beautiful, the flowers still blooming, the lawns still manicured, the pools full of people, the public places still look like they were built yesterday. In Spruce Creek the only flowers I saw were next to someone's front porch.

How do you know you're in a great place to live? Complainers!

///

[graciegirl]

So if they tear down the home behind yours, and put up a for-profit inpatient drug rehab center in its place you'll be okay with that. Afterall, it's a business, and businesses are designed to make money.

In the fifteen years that we have been observing closely this remarkable place, the developers have not done anything that would not be a benefit to the overall place and to us and of course make this whole place a more desirable place to buy into.

I am liking that. Maybe Mark Morse is like Attilla the Hun, but I sort of get that he is a responsible man, born in Michigan with great parents who raised him kinda like most of the people here were raised. He and his Sisters and their parents have wagered their own money time and time again on this place and they have made a place like few others on this earth. They did it without government funding and without gouging us. I think that they have tried to provide a lovely place to live for most people's means.

I am a huge fan of the process of good businesses doing good things. I see companies like The Villages being careful not to waste money. It is THEIR money. It is also great to see that they provide employment for the people who build and also for all of the related industries that provide for the people who live here.

I like the way that works.

[Ben Franklin]

And here is a perfect example of what the previous posters were referring to. This is a GREAT place. Been here 5 years and love it. Walked in with eyes wide open and no regrets. No clue why people move here and immediately want to change TV into what THEY think it should be.

Perhaps a course in remedial reading is needed. I didn't say I wanted to change anything. I did say they need to widen some roads, unless, of course, you never drove those roads, or you don't mind sitting in a parking lot, when you are driving. Maybe you like socialism. To each his own.

[Nucky]

The way I look at it is who from the Developers Staff is out to hurt me today? That's correct. NOBODY.

We've seen this same kind of wavelength at a Family Camp Ground on the Delaware River in Pennsylvania. The owners were constantly trying to update, maintain and improve the operation for those who were Seasonal Residents and for the weekend visitors. They like the Morris (Morse) Gang were constantly hammered for doing absolutely NOTHING wrong.

The 5th wheel and travel trailers that many people owned were stunningly beautiful and the owners were of the $$ same caliber $$ as many people who cry the same river as those in The Villages.

I don't love 'em, I don't hate anyone. The Developers don't impact my life at this moment one bit. I think I would like to take a moment to thank them for maintaining such a beautiful place to live for us even though it's filled with a lot of negative people.

[Laker14]

I think some people mischaracterize a changing marketing plan as a "broken promise". I never met Harold Schwartz. He never promised me a thing. I was a dentist in a practice that my grandfather started in 1925. I don't think I'd have had much of a practice in 2010 if I felt I had to do everything the way Grandpa did. And there were some people who complained that I didn't do everything the way Grandpa did. Well, too bad. Grandpa ain't here anymore.

[oldtimes]

I think some people mischaracterize a changing marketing plan as a "broken promise". I never met Harold Schwartz. He never promised me a thing. I was a dentist in a practice that my grandfather started in 1925. I don't think I'd have had much of a practice in 2010 if I felt I had to do everything the way Grandpa did. And there were some people who complained that I didn't do everything the way Grandpa did. Well, too bad. Grandpa ain't here anymore.

Well said.

[Marathon Man]

So if they tear down the home behind yours, and put up a for-profit inpatient drug rehab center in its place you'll be okay with that. Afterall, it's a business, and businesses are designed to make money.

When you run out of logical things to say, get angry or get silly. Happens often.

[GrumpyOldMan]

In the fifteen years that we have been observing closely this remarkable place, the developers have not done anything that would not be a benefit to the overall place and to us and of course make this whole place a more desirable place to buy into.

I am liking that. Maybe Mark Morse is like Attilla the Hun, but I sort of get that he is a responsible man, born in Michigan with great parents who raised him kinda like most of the people here were raised. He and his Sisters and their parents have wagered their own money time and time again on this place and they have made a place like few others on this earth. They did it without government funding and without gouging us. I think that they have tried to provide a lovely place to live for most people's means.

I am a huge fan of the process of good businesses doing good things. I see companies like The Villages being careful not to waste money. It is THEIR money. It is also great to see that they provide employment for the people who build and also for all of the related industries that provide for the people who live here.

I like the way that works.

As always a voice of reason, thank you

[JMintzer]

LoriL is talking about the current generation of the family running the Developer corporation not respecting the generation that used to be in charge of it, but are now too busy being dead to reprimand them for going against their wishes.

Slackers...

[JMintzer]

So if they tear down the home behind yours, and put up a for-profit inpatient drug rehab center in its place you'll be okay with that. Afterall, it's a business, and businesses are designed to make money.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UpSCKI8xd2I/WjGk5ei7SVI/AAAAAAAAF7s/AueVg2Wxvdg2yds5e_dz803nNJcBJznrgCLcBGAs/s1600/Strawman.png

[GrumpyOldMan]

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UpSCKI8xd2I/WjGk5ei7SVI/AAAAAAAAF7s/AueVg2Wxvdg2yds5e_dz803nNJcBJznrgCLcBGAs/s1600/Strawman.png

I knew we could find things to agree on! :)

[JMintzer]

First a history lesson. Mr Schwartz was the original developer for this area. He had a dream that he wanted to build an area for the “average guy” to live out their final days in an affordable area filled with activities for them. In those days you could see Mr. Schwartz walking down the street talking to the average guy. He was a personable , friendly man who cared about people. His goal was to keep the area small and affordable. As the area got bigger, he made a promise to all that the area would never get too large to forget the people.
When he passed, the children and grandchildren took over and their greed set in.


GREED! Everybody drink!:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[JMintzer]

I knew we could find things to agree on! :)



Sorry, but...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/d84a4367f4357308642dd360d94a068e/tenor.gif?itemid=15116689

[BlueStarAirlines]

The only Buffalo I know is Buffalo Trace.....

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Long time residents are aware that the Developer has done some shady things in the past and can't be trusted. Research the class action lawsuit brought against The developer due to misuse of amenity funds, that was settled to the tune of something like $40 million.

There was also a matter of false advertising, when the Developer promised free trail fees, free cable TV, free RV storage, free trash pickup, to anyone who purchased before a certain date. The Developer cancelled it all, and were subsequently sued. A settlement created a grandfathering in of exemptions to paying those fees for those homeowners.

Then there was the Paradise Rec Center, which was infested with termites and rodents, and had mold. The Developer (by way of the VCCDD) wanted to wash their hands of it, and were then sued and made to pay to have the old building torn down and replaced with a new one.

The Developer created a BEAUTIFUL community. But they cut corners (so many of you forget the 1000 or so homes with cracked foundations all built after 2008). They've reneged on promises, both verbal and in written advertisements. They have had to be sued in order to be required to live up to their claims.

And now they're suing my town because they want to change the commercial zoning of the Spanish Springs Town Square, which is located in Lady Lake, and turn it into mixed use. They've already been told no. But no isn't good enough for them so they're forcing the town to waste taxpayer money on a lawsuit.

There have been worse "creators/caretakers/overseers" of communities. There ARE worse. But to think the Morse Family is nicey-nicey and never does anything wrong is disingenuous, and frankly the people who make these ridiculous claims glorifying and practically deifying the Morse Family just give this community a BAD reputation of having a majority of residents with their heads stuck firmly in their nether regions.

[Bogie Shooter]

Another posting with no facts.

The average 60 year old makes over $85,000.
The average 60 year old has a net worth over $1,200,000
The "average guy" can still afford The Villages, nothing is ruined.

"Unrest"...............is by a very, very small group of people.
Where in the USA is there not a very, very small group of unhappy people.

:ho:
👍🍺.

[JoMar]

The developer is changing it into what THEY think it should be, why is it bad for someone who actually lives here to want to change it into what THEY think it should be? It isn't what it started out - someone decided to change it into what they thought it should be.

And then, when it changed into what the developer thought it should be, he changed his mind and changed the community again. And then his son in law took over, and changed it again. And then his son in law died, and HIS kids changed it again.

Every time it changes, it moves further and further away from what it was ORIGINALLY intended to be.

If you don't have any problem with that, then you really have no argument against anyone else wanting to change it into what THEY think it should be.

Why should you be able to change someone's business into something different when you have no investment in their business? The only thing you spent was the cost of your property. If people would read their covenants and do their research before they buy they would know what they are getting into. The good news is the negativity is the minority view unless of course you believe that all the folks moving here are either ignorant or stupid. The Developers have provided more than an outstanding opportunity for those that are looking for a place to retirement. I've been here 10 years including a rental period.....if you have been here longer then I challenge you to go visit where you came from and see if that place is the same as it was when you left it or has it changed and grown. You might be surprised.

[dewilson58]

Why should you be able to change someone's business into something different when you have no investment in their business? The only thing you spent was the cost of your property. If people would read their covenants and do their research before they buy they would know what they are getting into. The good news is the negativity is the minority view unless of course you believe that all the folks moving here are either ignorant or stupid. The Developers have provided more than an outstanding opportunity for those that are looking for a place to retirement. I've been here 10 years including a rental period.....if you have been here longer then I challenge you to go visit where you came from and see if that place is the same as it was when you left it or has it changed and grown. You might be surprised.

JM, you just can't help some sad people.
I hope the OJ finds happiness.
:)

[Aloha1]

///

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Why should you be able to change someone's business into something different when you have no investment in their business? The only thing you spent was the cost of your property. If people would read their covenants and do their research before they buy they would know what they are getting into. The good news is the negativity is the minority view unless of course you believe that all the folks moving here are either ignorant or stupid. The Developers have provided more than an outstanding opportunity for those that are looking for a place to retirement. I've been here 10 years including a rental period.....if you have been here longer then I challenge you to go visit where you came from and see if that place is the same as it was when you left it or has it changed and grown. You might be surprised.

I don't know where YOU come from, but on MY planet, property taxpayers and registered voters have a say in matters when someone petitions their town for a zoning change (the lawsuit by the Developer against Lady Lake because the town doesn't want to change the zoning of the commercial district known as Spanish Springs Town Square).

And - I'm not looking for change. I'm looking to PREVENT change. We moved into a specific thing. Obviously there is room for improvement, but there's no need to make it something else. It's like moving into an apartment building and then the owner of the building says "nope it's a condo now, you have to buy it, or move out." Or if they say "we're opening up the entire first floor into a homeless shelter, but you're still obligated to continue paying rent because you signed a lease." Or if you chose to live in the gated exclusive area of the Villages, and suddenly they buy three of the houses in the area and decide to subdivide it into 20 new townhouses.

You don't want to get it. And that's fine. It's not a big deal because it doesn't affect you. When the change happens "in your back yard" (metaphorically speaking) you might think otherwise.

[Laker14]

Sorry, but...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/d84a4367f4357308642dd360d94a068e/tenor.gif?itemid=15116689

no you didn't.

[Two Bills]

I only have one complaint about the developer, and that is the use of socialism in place of impact fees. They are/were in bed with the politicians to get government to relax the impact fees.................................

Socialism?
That is pure US Capitalism at its finest!

[dewilson58]

Here we go again and again and again......nonsense examples...

It's like moving into an apartment building and then the owner of the building says "nope it's a condo now, you have to buy it, or move out."

Or if they say "we're opening up the entire first floor into a homeless shelter, but you're still obligated to continue paying rent because you signed a lease."

Or if you chose to live in the gated exclusive area of the Villages, and suddenly they buy three of the houses in the area and decide to subdivide it into 20 new townhouses.

The space is not an apartment, no one lives there, no one is being required to buy or move. It's empty space being converted. Look around the USA, many places are converting empty commercial space into living spaces.....warehouses, retail stores, schools, offices building. Great way to take dead property and give it life.

Second silly example.....No one is being required to continue paying on a lease without use of property. The proposed use will be the opposite of a homeless shelter.

No one is buying homes and converting to townhouses. No one lives next to the proposed converted property. A land developer wants to continue to develop.

Maybe you can tie in the Man in the Moon somehow.

:clap2:

[Two Bills]

no you didn't.

Sorry. Your time is up!

[JMintzer]

no you didn't.

https://i.imgflip.com/1h89a4.gif

[Beach Boy]

I’m new to TV, having moved here in September. I see frequent references to the developer on these forums, and a lot of them are really negative. I’m really curious as to what the cause of the negativity might be. I don’t know much about the politics of The Villages, but would love to hear (read) what you all think. So far I’m still in my honeymoon stage here. Looking forward to your input, and now, off to golf!


Just ignore all the negativity reguarding the developer, restaurant critics, neighborhood Nellies. They have nothing better to do.
Just enjoy the ride and look for positive people.

[Happydaz]

Another posting with no facts.

The average 60 year old makes over $85,000.
The average 60 year old has a net worth over $1,200,000
The "average guy" can still afford The Villages, nothing is ruined.

"Unrest"...............is by a very, very small group of people.
Where in the USA is there not a very, very small group of unhappy people.

:ho:

Could you please list your sources for the average 60 year old making over $85,000 and the average 60 year old having a net worth of over $1,200,000?

[JMintzer]

Could you please list your sources for the average 60 year old making over $85,000 and the average 60 year old having a net worth of over $1,200,000?

The closest I could find was for 60-64, the Median HOUSEHOLD retirement income was about $70K and the Mean Household retirement income was about $101K...


* Per the US Census Bureau...

average income 60 year old - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=average+income+60+year+old&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS873US874&biw=1174&bih=764&ei=8B3dYJisFY-5qtsP69awmAw&oq=average+income+60+year+old&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyAggAMgUIABCGAzIFCAAQhgM6Bwg AEEcQsAM6BggAEAcQHkoECEEYAFCotw9Y_8UPYJ_JD2gCcAJ4A IABqQGIAcYGkgEDNS4zmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesgBCMABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwiY5NLQ38DxAhWPnGoFHWsrDMMQ4dUDCA4&uact=5)

[JMintzer]

Could you please list your sources for the average 60 year old making over $85,000 and the average 60 year old having a net worth of over $1,200,000?

And according to CNBC, the average HOUSEHOLD Net Worth (ages 55-64) is about $1.176 Million...


Here'''s the Average Net Worth of Americans Ages 55 to 64 (https://www.cnbc.com/select/average-net-worth-of-americans-ages-55-to-64/)

[dewilson58]

Could you please list your sources for the average 60 year old making over $85,000 and the average 60 year old having a net worth of over $1,200,000?

It was a Google search. Don't have the site saved.

[Happydaz]

And according to CNBC, the average HOUSEHOLD Net Worth (ages 55-64) is about $1.176 Million...


Here'''s the Average Net Worth of Americans Ages 55 to 64 (https://www.cnbc.com/select/average-net-worth-of-americans-ages-55-to-64/)

The problem with an “average” is that outliers or numbers that are much lower or higher than the others can throw the average number off and make it an unreliable figure. In the US, income is concentrated at high levels (top 10% for example) and the rest at low and mid levels. These very high income American raise the “average net worth” to a much higher figure than the “average Joe” in America actually has.

A better number where the distribution of incomes is very wide would be the “median” number. This would show that half have more than the median amount and half have less than the median. So in your source they mention that the “average” household net worth of 55-64 year old household is $1.176 Million. Yet the median reported in the same article is much lower and comes in at $212,500. So the median or middle income household in the USA at age 60 has a net worth closer to $212,500 not 1.2 Million. Where there is a wide difference in numbers a median is more accurate than an average. The American in the middle is not a millionaire.

[Neils]

I only have one complaint about the developer, and that is the use of socialism in place of impact fees. They are/were in bed with the politicians to get government to relax the impact fees, which means those of us already here pay for the impact created by those making the impact. But, it's not just this developer, they all do it. They even got the Governor to sign an impact fee ceiling. And then they turn around and tell us we need to accept personal responsibility.

With the impact of so many people, the roads will need to be widened, especially 301, from Warm Springs to Route 44. The other roads are Rolling Acres from 466 to 441 with 2 left hand turn lanes at 466 and Rolling Acres. Granted, those roads are not in TV, but they are impacted by the growing number of people in TV. Other than that, most things run pretty smoothly, at least what I'm aware of.

New homes pay local taxes every year too. So as the tax base increases which provides extra money for the local City County Schools Fire Sheriff Hospitals

[dewilson58]

The problem with an “average” is that outliers or numbers that are much lower or higher than the others can throw the average number off and make it an unreliable figure. In the US, income is concentrated at high levels (top 10% for example) and the rest at low and mid levels. These very high income American raise the “average net worth” to a much higher figure than the “average Joe” in America actually has.

A better number where the distribution of incomes is very wide would be the “median” number. This would show that half have more than the median amount and half have less than the median. So in your source they mention that the “average” household net worth of 55-64 year old household is $1.176 Million. Yet the median reported in the same article is much lower and comes in at $212,500. So the median or middle income household in the USA at age 60 has a net worth closer to $212,500 not 1.2 Million. Where there is a wide difference in numbers a median is more accurate than an average. The American in the middle is not a millionaire.

:blahblahblah:
:blahblahblah:
:blahblahblah:
Average, median, mean, std deviation, bell curve, etc.
:blahblahblah:
:blahblahblah:
:blahblahblah:

Spare me........My post was in response to a post about "the average guy" can't afford TV.

[Happydaz]

:blahblahblah:
:blahblahblah:
:blahblahblah:
Average, median, mean, std deviation, bell curve, etc.
:blahblahblah:
:blahblahblah:
:blahblahblah:

Spare me........My post was in response to a post about "the average guy" can't afford TV.

7000+ posts = blah blah blah. Listing inaccurate information off an unknown Google site is the height of blah blah blah. Who is this ‘average guy’ you are always talking about? Is he the 60 year old who makes $85,000 a year and has $1.2 Million in net worth? He doesn’t exist.

[dewilson58]

7000+ posts = blah blah blah. Listing inaccurate information off an unknown Google site is the height of blah blah blah. Who is this ‘average guy’ you are always talking about? Is he the 60 year old who makes $85,000 a year and has $1.2 Million in net worth? He doesn’t exist.

You sure don't seem like Happy Daz.

Here a site for your happiness.
Average Retirement Income 2021: How Do You Compare? (https://www.newretirement.com/retirement/average-retirement-income-2021-how-do-you-compare/)
Not my original site, but the income data is very close to what I quoted.


If it will help your happiness, I can probably find a net worth site for you.

[dewilson58]

Is he the 60 year old who makes $85,000 a year and has $1.2 Million in net worth? He doesn’t exist.

Oooooooo but he & she exists....................

Here are a couple sites with the average NW of $1.2mil:

https://www.listenmoneymatters.com/average-net-worth-age/

The Average Net Worth Of Americans—By Age, Education And Ethnicity – Forbes Advisor (https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/average-net-worth/)

[Happydaz]

You sure don't seem like Happy Daz.

Here a site for your happiness.
Average Retirement Income 2021: How Do You Compare? (https://www.newretirement.com/retirement/average-retirement-income-2021-how-do-you-compare/)
Not my original site, but the income data is very close to what I


If it will help your happiness, I can probably find a net worth site for you.

The article you list here fully explains the difference between average (or mean) and median. Your reference source says that the “median” is a better number for an individual to use rather than the “average” number which is wildly out of line in your example of an “average income and net worth wealth” for a 60 year old. This is due to the large, very wealthy class that sits at the top of the wealth scale in the USA and this makes the “average figure” meaningless and inaccurate.

[dewilson58]

The article you list here fully explains the difference between average (or mean) and median. Your reference source says that the “median” is a better number for an individual to use rather than the “average” number which is wildly out of line in your example of an “average income and net worth wealth” for a 60 year old. This is due to the large, very wealthy class that sits at the top of the wealth scale in the USA and this makes the “average figure” meaningless and inaccurate.

Again :blahblahblah:.

You asked who is this average guy and he does not exist.
I gave you some reference sites.
No one is debating average, median, mean :blahblahblah:.
Again, the poster said AVERAGE guy, so I gave averages.
:ho:

[Happydaz]

Oooooooo but he & she exists....................

Here are a couple sites with the average NW of $1.2mil:

https://www.listenmoneymatters.com/average-net-worth-age/

The Average Net Worth Of Americans—By Age, Education And Ethnicity – Forbes Advisor (https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/average-net-worth/)

You need to read these articles all the way through. This is yet another of your articles that says that “average” is not accurate. It overstates income and net worth. “Median” is what your articles recommend using. So your example of the “average Joe” at 60 making $85,000 and having $1.2 Million in net worth is not in line with what the middle income people actually make and have. It is much a much lower number and may give credence to other posters who thought that The Villages may becoming too expensive for middle income Americans to afford. Your statistical support for your argument that this is not the case is flawed and inaccurate.

[dewilson58]

You need to read these articles all the way through. This is yet another of your articles that says that “average” is not accurate. It overstates income and net worth. “Median” is what your articles recommend using. So your example of the “average Joe” at 60 making $85,000 and having $1.2 Million in net worth is not in line with what the middle income people actually make and have. It is much a much lower number and may give credence to other posters who thought that The Villages may becoming too expensive for middle income Americans to afford. Your statistical support for your argument that this is not the case is flawed and inaccurate.

Are you really this clueless or are your Happy Daz over??

The poster said average guy, not median guy, not middle income guy.

Thanks for the humor today!!!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

You need to read these articles all the way through. This is yet another of your articles that says that “average” is not accurate. It overstates income and net worth. “Median” is what your articles recommend using. So your example of the “average Joe” at 60 making $85,000 and having $1.2 Million in net worth is not in line with what the middle income people actually make and have. It is much a much lower number and may give credence to other posters who thought that The Villages may becoming too expensive for middle income Americans to afford. Your statistical support for your argument that this is not the case is flawed and inaccurate.

You're measuring completely different averages. The "average Joe" is not earning an "average income."

"average income" doesn't include people who have NO income. There are lot of people who have no income at all. They are not counted in the "average."

But those people ARE included in "people." So the "average person" is earning a lot less than the "average income," because the average person is in the same group as the people who have no income, but the average income is not.

[Topspinmo]

What a hoot. You say Socialism? What about libraries, fire and police departments, parks, or your free Covid shot? Republicans love to attack “socialism,” but
are total hypocrites in doing so.

All funded by taxpayers.

[manaboutown]

It all averages out and I mean it!

"The "mean" is the "average" you're used to, where you add up all the numbers and then divide by the number of numbers. The "median" is the "middle" value in the list of numbers. To find the median, your numbers have to be listed in numerical order from smallest to largest, so you may have to rewrite your list before you can find the median."

From: Mean, Median, Mode, and Range | Purplemath (https://www.purplemath.com/modules/meanmode.htm)

[dewilson58]

It all averages out and I mean it!

Lots of point for that.