Lightening protection systems

[Altavia]

Will be making calls on Monday - are any approvals required prior to installing a lightening protection system?

[Joe V.]

Will be making calls on Monday - are any approvals required prior to installing a lightening protection system?

I called Community Standards yesterday about this. They said no approval necessary for lightning rod protection systems on your roof..

Here is their information for contact if you want to enquirer yourself:


984 Old Mill Run
The Villages, FL 32162

Community Standards
Phone: 352-751-3912
Fax: 352-751-6707


Business Hours:
8am to 5pm, EST
Monday – Friday
Excluding Holidays

[Bilyclub]

2 houses hit in the last 2 weeks. I'm sure the installers are getting a little busier.

[Altavia]

I called Community Standards yesterday about this. They said no approval necessary for lightning rod protection systems on your roof..

Here is their information for contact if you want to enquirer yourself:


984 Old Mill Run
The Villages, FL 32162

Community Standards
Phone: 352-751-3912
Fax: 352-751-6707


Business Hours:
8am to 5pm, EST
Monday – Friday
Excluding Holidays

Thanks!

[villagetinker]

Will be making calls on Monday - are any approvals required prior to installing a lightening protection system?

What is the age of your roof? The reason I ask is the lightning protection system will need to be removed and reinstalled after the new roof is installed, and I would check to see if this would interfere with any warranty for the new roof.

[Altavia]

What is the age of your roof? The reason I ask is the lightning protection system will need to be removed and reinstalled after the new roof is installed, and I would check to see if this would interfere with any warranty for the new roof.

Good point, new home in this case.

[LuckyS]

Is it true, due to the soil here the lightning rods aren't effective. Could a non-biased expert chime in?

[LateBoomer]

Lightning

[dewilson58]

Is it true, due to the soil here the lightning rods aren't effective. Could a non-biased expert chime in?

Google is your friend.

[villagetinker]

I am a former electric utility engineer, we had to do lots of lightening protection for substations and occasionally large metal poles. In general at locations with substandard ground resistance there were special means used to get good ground connection so we had good lightning protection. Special protection could include extra deep ground rods, chemicals added to 'ground wells' to decrease the resistance to earth, and finally very extensive ground mats that consisted of 4-0 copper wires in a grid layout. Florida soils tend to have a lots of sand which is an insulator, so it seems reasonable that you may need extra depth ground rods or many more ground rods. I am NOT an expert in these systems, just presenting some experience from my work in the electric industry.

[Dan9871]

I am a former electric utility engineer, we had to do lots of lightening protection for substaextra depth ground rods or many more ground rods..

Our house as 3 ground rods for the lighting rods. Our installer measured the ground resistance after the installation. I forgot what the reading as but is was within the specification requirements.

[villagetinker]

Glad to hear that, just out of curiosity, do they do periodic tests, say every 5 years?

[Altavia]

I am a former electric utility engineer, we had to do lots of lightening protection for substations and occasionally large metal poles. In general at locations with substandard ground resistance there were special means used to get good ground connection so we had good lightning protection. Special protection could include extra deep ground rods, chemicals added to 'ground wells' to decrease the resistance to earth, and finally very extensive ground mats that consisted of 4-0 copper wires in a grid layout. Florida soils tend to have a lots of sand which is an insulator, so it seems reasonable that you may need extra depth ground rods or many more ground rods. I am NOT an expert in these systems, just presenting some experience from my work in the electric industry.

Interesting point...

In Southeast, Ground Rods May Not Protect Homes Against Lightning - News - University of Florida (https://news.ufl.edu/archive/2002/08/in-southeast-ground-rods-may-not-protect-homes-against-lightning.html)

[Altavia]

I am a former electric utility engineer, we had to do lots of lightening protection for substations and occasionally large metal poles. In general at locations with substandard ground resistance there were special means used to get good ground connection so we had good lightning protection. Special protection could include extra deep ground rods, chemicals added to 'ground wells' to decrease the resistance to earth, and finally very extensive ground mats that consisted of 4-0 copper wires in a grid layout. Florida soils tend to have a lots of sand which is an insulator, so it seems reasonable that you may need extra depth ground rods or many more ground rods. I am NOT an expert in these systems, just presenting some experience from my work in the electric industry.

Interesting point...

In Southeast, Ground Rods May Not Protect Homes Against Lightning - News - University of Florida (https://news.ufl.edu/archive/2002/08/in-southeast-ground-rods-may-not-protect-homes-against-lightning.html)

[Dan9871]

Yes, about every 5 years they check the wires, roof and resistance.

Glad to hear that, just out of curiosity, do they do periodic tests, say every 5 years?

[MandoMan]

Interesting point...

In Southeast, Ground Rods May Not Protect Homes Against Lightning - News - University of Florida (https://news.ufl.edu/archive/2002/08/in-southeast-ground-rods-may-not-protect-homes-against-lightning.html)

Interesting article. Thanks. There was a piece on this topic in this morning’s online news for TV, and it said “ Consider providing an LPS that has been protecting people and property world-wide for over 260 years. They have been the subject of numerous studies over the decades including rocket-to-wire triggered lightning research at the University of Florida.” But that is the study to which you link, and that study showed that the usual 8’ lightning rod hammered into the ground allows OVER 80% of the current from a direct strike to hit the electric meter! So, yes, research, but the research showed that the usual rod doesn’t work! What works is a big ring buried deep in a big hole or a loop of wire buried all the way around the house. There goes the landscaping! Is that what installers are putting in, or just a rod?

I wonder if daily rains and daily watering helps increase the effectiveness of a rod. Nearly all our lightning comes during the wet season.

[Phpb2]

Temperature of lightening? 50,000 degrees! Copper melts at 1984 degrees! Save ur money!

[dewilson58]

Temperature of lightening? 50,000 degrees! Copper melts at 1984 degrees! Save ur money!

Bingo.

[crash]

Glad to hear that, just out of curiosity, do they do periodic tests, say every 5 years?

If you call them they will inspect. The inspection is $100.

[Altavia]

Interesting article. Thanks. There was a piece on this topic in this morning’s online news for TV, and it said “ Consider providing an LPS that has been protecting people and property world-wide for over 260 years. They have been the subject of numerous studies over the decades including rocket-to-wire triggered lightning research at the University of Florida.” But that is the study to which you link, and that study showed that the usual 8’ lightning rod hammered into the ground allows OVER 80% of the current from a direct strike to hit the electric meter! So, yes, research, but the research showed that the usual rod doesn’t work! What works is a big ring buried deep in a big hole or a loop of wire buried all the way around the house. There goes the landscaping! Is that what installers are putting in, or just a rod?

I wonder if daily rains and daily watering helps increase the effectiveness of a rod. Nearly all our lightning comes during the wet season.

I thought the article also said a surge protector at the meter prevented damage? High cost devices should also be protected by surge protectors at their power connection.

The gas line on new homes, where gas is run through the attic, is a lightening rod... A recent local strike went in at the attic gas line and exited at the tracer wire/meter ground.

Looks like the spec's call out less than 25 ohms resistance between grounding rods so maybe that can be checked.

[Ele201]

I’m considering buying in Chitty Chatty, but a little concerned about lightening. There are electrical wires strung above some homes there. Could this be dangerous? Thanks Will be making calls on Monday - are any approvals required prior to installing a lightening protection system?

[Lightning]

Will be making calls on Monday - are any approvals required prior to installing a lightening protection system?
There are no permits or follow up county inspections for lightning rods. This is a buyer beware market place. Therefore, consider only firms that are listed by Underwriters Laboratories and their installers have been qualified as a Master Installer by exam offered by the Lightning Protection Institute. Not all listings in the yellow pages will meet this criteria nor will door-to-door sales. Lightning rods have only three parts, the point (rod) placed on the roof according to NFPA-780 the national standard on lightning, braided aluminum or copper wire to connect the rods, and ground rods. . There will two, three, or four driven ground rods depending on the size of the home. These are 5/8th inch copper clad steel rods 8 ft (or more) driven 2 ft below grade outside of the drip line from the eaves.. The installer will drive enough driven rods to the proper depth so you do not have to worry about soil conditions. Remember the utilities in this state have been grounding in this soil for over a 100 years!

[TheMoyers]

I am a retired licensed professional engineer (PE), and I did have a system installed on our home here in TV. No permit was required. I have a MAJOR recommendation. Get it UL approved. Underwriter's Labs has specific standards for these systems, and if you get it approved, you will have a UL inspector come and verify that rods are properly spaced, and the grounding system mentioned by other people who responded to you, has been properly done and tested. The UL inspector took actually readings (in ohms), and ensured mine were well within the required standard. And yes, it is not required, but if you want to keep the UL approval, you will need to have it checked periodically. I do ours every 3 years.
The UL stamp costs a few hundred dollars extra. But here is what it is worth it, and why rechecks are important. There are numerous electrical connections between the roof rods, cables, and grounding rods. A cheaper system might use connectors and components that give acceptable ohm readings on installation, but as time goes by the different metals corrode at different rates, and you might find that 5 years later you have a system that has too high an ohm reading, hence ineffective.. The UL inspector checks those materials, and a recheck periodically ensures it.

[bluecenturian]

Had A1 Lightening Protection install rods about 2 years ago. Had a direct hit 3 weeks ago and only damage was a plant that was next to the ground wire. Highly recommend the system especially for anyone south of 44 with natural gas.

[Ashley from UK]

I’m considering buying in Chitty Chatty, but a little concerned about lightening. There are electrical wires strung above some homes there. Could this be dangerous? Thanks

Ele - VERY WISE DECISION to be looking at Chitty Chatty...:clap2::clap2::clap2: no bias from me being the 3rd person to complete on a designer home in Chitty Chatty and the founder of the Chitty Chatty Residents Facebook page which is used to organise village events and gatherings, pass on recommendations (and warnings) of contractors and generally just assist all residents.

To put your mind at rest there has only been one lightning strike in Chitty Chatty that I am aware of - my house! The lightning hit the ground and (according to the loss assessor) travelled through the irrigation system blowing the garage door opener, a number of LED lights, and the irrigation system timer. I had Villages insurance who sorted out the claim and Exceptional Electrics were brilliant in resolving the matter swiftly. My claim was paid out in full. Lightning rods would not have saved me in this instance. My home is on the lake so some way from the power lines. So I can say that the in the past year the power lines have not been an issue.

The Village Newcomers did a review on lightning protectors in their 21st June Mailbag Monday. They found only around 3 homes in over 100 had lightning protectors.

[irishwonone]

What is the age of your roof? The reason I ask is the lightning protection system will need to be removed and reinstalled after the new roof is installed, and I would check to see if this would interfere with any warranty for the new roof.
Great point.

[irishwonone]

Is it true, due to the soil here the lightning rods aren't effective. Could a non-biased expert chime in?
Yes that’s incorrect. Commercial buildings all across Florida have lightning rods. Sandy soils are much easier to drive lightning rods versus clay soils.

[butlerism]

The only approval I am aware of..... Getting your wife's approval to hold the lightning rod in a rain storm.
That one may prove tricky

[lorilorilori]

Will be making calls on Monday - are any approvals required prior to installing a lightening protection system?

Please share results of your call.
time frame ?
price?
# of rods
type of home ?

TY:boom:

[tgloo99]

I am a former electric utility engineer, we had to do lots of lightening protection for substations and occasionally large metal poles. In general at locations with substandard ground resistance there were special means used to get good ground connection so we had good lightning protection. Special protection could include extra deep ground rods, chemicals added to 'ground wells' to decrease the resistance to earth, and finally very extensive ground mats that consisted of 4-0 copper wires in a grid layout. Florida soils tend to have a lots of sand which is an insulator, so it seems reasonable that you may need extra depth ground rods or many more ground rods. I am NOT an expert in these systems, just presenting some experience from my work in the electric industry.

Do you have lighting protection on your home...?

[Ritagoyer]

What about a whole house surge Protector do they work or are lighting rods better?

[villagetinker]

To answer the question above, no we do not have a LPS system, we do have a whole house lightning protection on the meter and on various pieces of equipment in the house. About 3 years ago there was a close in strike. It appeared to hit a pole in the neighbors back yard. There was several thousands of dollars in damages to neighbors electrical equipment, we had no IMMEDIATE damage, but about 1.5 years later the cable drop to the house failed and had to be replaced, the failure was blamed on the lighting strike.
I have no idea if the neighbors had any protection on their electrical system. All of the damage was to equipment located outside of the house or connected to wiring going outside the house.

[HiHoSteveO]

What about a whole house surge Protector do they work or are lighting rods better?

It depends on if you get a direct lightning strike or an indirect lightning strike.
Both would be best but would that be overkill?
For me, a surge suppressor installed at the electrical panel in the garage by an electrician was the answer.

Two helpful videos below from "ASK This Old House"

Lightning Rods
Installing Whole House Lightning Protection | Ask This Old House - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37F1gmOfhII)

Surge Protection
How to Install Surge Protection | Ask This Old House - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGpOwUAJ16c)

[Bob.Betty]

The odds of your house getting struck by lightning is 1 in 280,000 i've lived in my house for over 30 years and don't know anyone whos house has been hit

[retiredguy123]

What about a whole house surge Protector do they work or are lighting rods better?
Neither. Both are a waste of money. My opinion.

[Altavia]

I’m considering buying in Chitty Chatty, but a little concerned about lightening. There are electrical wires strung above some homes there. Could this be dangerous? Thanks

Wonder if Being closer to power lines may provide some level of risk reduction due to their inert protection (?)

[Altavia]

The odds of your house getting struck by lightning is 1 in 280,000 i've lived in my house for over 30 years and don't know anyone whos house has been hit

I'm aware of 6 within 3 mi in 18 Mo...

Been hit twice in 50 yrs myself, replacing all the electronics in a modern homes is expensive and not fun

[yankygrl]

The odds of your house getting struck by lightning is 1 in 280,000 i've lived in my house for over 30 years and don't know anyone whos house has been hit
In the past week I know or have heard of 4 houses that have been struck. Most were lucky and the house didn’t burn down. We live in the lightening capital of USA

[Stu from NYC]

Neither. Both are a waste of money. My opinion.

Why do you think they are a waste of money?

[Lightning]

Temperature of lightening? 50,000 degrees! Copper melts at 1984 degrees! Save ur money!
Please understand that a cloud-to-ground lightning strike to a lightning protection system only lasts a milisecond as the charge is harmlessly being shunted to the driven ground rods.

[retiredguy123]

Why do you think they are a waste of money?
Lightning protection is expensive, and damage from lightning is extremely unlikely. A whole house surge protector will not prevent lightning damage, and, if you read the warranty, it basically excludes almost everything that it is designed to protect. Homeowners insurance will cover most damage from lightning and electrical surges.

[Altavia]

Lightning protection is expensive, and damage from lightning is extremely unlikely. A whole house surge protector will not prevent lightning damage, and, if you read the warranty, it basically excludes almost everything that it is designed to protect. Homeowners insurance will cover most damage from lightning and electrical surges.

Testing shows if you do both, the effectiveness of the combination is good.

Nothing is perfect, the idea of to reduce the severity and risk.

It's not much more expensive ($1-2 K depending on home size) than my deductable. The time and inconvenience of making a claim is huge. Making a claim can get you cancelled.

Adding protection to a home with metallic gas lines in the attic is a no brainier...