Springfield MO Health Department reports 17 new COVID-19 deaths

[Altavia]

Springfield-Greene Co. Health Dept. announces 17 new COVID-19 deaths as cases, hospitalizations rise (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/springfield-greene-co-health-dept-announces-17-new-covid-19-deaths-as-cases-hospitalizations-rise/ar-AALQzWb?ocid=uxbndlbing)


The Springfield-Greene County Health Department is saddened to report the deaths of 17 Greene County residents from COVID-19 for the June 21-July 4 reporting period. All 17 fatalities occurred in June. Those who died range in age from their 40s to their 90s. The last time the Health Department reported 17 deaths in a reporting period was January 27.

Two of the individuals who died did not seek medical attention, highlighting the importance of seeking emergency medical care when signs of severe illness from COVID-19 arise. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, if an individual is showing any of the following symptoms, they should seek emergency care immediately:

Trouble breathing
Persistent pain or pressure in the chest
New confusion
Inability to wake or stay awake
Pale, gray or blue-colored skin, lips, or nail beds – depending on skin tone
If someone is showing any of these symptoms, they or a loved one or friend should immediately call 911 and inform the operator of their COVID-19 diagnoses.

Of the reported deaths, none were fully vaccinated according to the state of Missouri’s COVID-19 vaccine database.

“This should be extremely concerning to our community, especially as the highly contagious Delta variant continues to infect and hospitalize many people,” said Acting Director of Health Katie Towns. “It’s our responsibility to protect ourselves and our loved ones from this deadly virus by getting vaccinated. Additionally, if someone we know has COVID-19, we need to check in on them and watch for any signs of severe illness that may require hospitalization.”

On Monday, 121 new confirmed cases of COVID-19 were reported to the Health Department, bringing our seven-day average to 139 cases per day. This represents a 20% increase in cases over the past seven days. As of Tuesday morning,181 individuals were being treated for COVID-19 at Springfield hospitals.

Over the last two weeks, the 31-40 age group had the highest increase in new cases compared to the last two weeks. Cases in children ages zero to four also significantly increased (see chart below):



Vaccination is the best tool we have to fight COVID-19 and the variants. Unfortunately, our community continues to fall behind the state and nation in the percent of individuals fully vaccinated. More than 60% of Greene County residents 12 and over are unvaccinated, putting themselves and others at risk of serious complications due to COVID-19. The Health Department continues to work hard to make the COVID-19 vaccine easily accessible for everyone who is eligible. Those still needing a vaccine can visit vaccine417.com or call the Health Department’s COVID-19 Call Center at (417) 874-1211 for a list of available opportunities.

Number of Greene County residents fully vaccinated (as of July 6)

98,862 Greene County residents 12 and older have been fully vaccinated
According to the CDC, 55.4% of Americans 12+ have been fully vaccinated. This compares to 39.19% in Greene County.
For the reporting period from June 21-July 4, 2021:

COVID-19 deaths

17 deaths (up from 2 two weeks ago)
Number of new COVID-19 cases

1,782 cases (up from 1,220 two weeks ago)
7-day rolling average of new COVID-19 cases

139 (up from 94 two weeks ago)
Current hospitalizations

181 hospitalizations
81 are Greene County residents
Additional information, including daily updates, can be found on the Health Department’s COVID-19 dashboard at COVID-19 (Novel Coronavirus) | Springfield, MO - Official Website (http://health.springfieldmo.gov/coronavirus)

[Dana1963]

Springfield-Greene Co. Health Dept. announces 17 new COVID-19 deaths as cases, hospitalizations rise (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/springfield-greene-co-health-dept-announces-17-new-covid-19-deaths-as-cases-hospitalizations-rise/ar-AALQzWb?ocid=uxbndlbing)


The Springfield-Greene County Health Department is saddened to report the deaths of 17 Greene County residents from COVID-19 for the June 21-July 4 reporting period. All 17 fatalities occurred in June. Those who died range in age from their 40s to their 90s. The last time the Health Department reported 17 deaths in a reporting period was January 27.

Two of the individuals who died did not seek medical attention, highlighting the importance of seeking emergency medical care when signs of severe illness from COVID-19 arise. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, if an individual is showing any of the following symptoms, they should seek emergency care immediately:

Trouble breathing
Persistent pain or pressure in the chest
New confusion
Inability to wake or stay awake
Pale, gray or blue-colored skin, lips, or nail beds – depending on skin tone
If someone is showing any of these symptoms, they or a loved one or friend should immediately call 911 and inform the operator of their COVID-19 diagnoses.

Of the reported deaths, none were fully vaccinated according to the state of Missouri’s COVID-19 vaccine database.

“This should be extremely concerning to our community, especially as the highly contagious Delta variant continues to infect and hospitalize many people,” said Acting Director of Health Katie Towns. “It’s our responsibility to protect ourselves and our loved ones from this deadly virus by getting vaccinated. Additionally, if someone we know has COVID-19, we need to check in on them and watch for any signs of severe illness that may require hospitalization.”

On Monday, 121 new confirmed cases of COVID-19 were reported to the Health Department, bringing our seven-day average to 139 cases per day. This represents a 20% increase in cases over the past seven days. As of Tuesday morning,181 individuals were being treated for COVID-19 at Springfield hospitals.

Over the last two weeks, the 31-40 age group had the highest increase in new cases compared to the last two weeks. Cases in children ages zero to four also significantly increased (see chart below):



Vaccination is the best tool we have to fight COVID-19 and the variants. Unfortunately, our community continues to fall behind the state and nation in the percent of individuals fully vaccinated. More than 60% of Greene County residents 12 and over are unvaccinated, putting themselves and others at risk of serious complications due to COVID-19. The Health Department continues to work hard to make the COVID-19 vaccine easily accessible for everyone who is eligible. Those still needing a vaccine can visit vaccine417.com or call the Health Department’s COVID-19 Call Center at (417) 874-1211 for a list of available opportunities.

Number of Greene County residents fully vaccinated (as of July 6)

98,862 Greene County residents 12 and older have been fully vaccinated
According to the CDC, 55.4% of Americans 12+ have been fully vaccinated. This compares to 39.19% in Greene County.
For the reporting period from June 21-July 4, 2021:

COVID-19 deaths

17 deaths (up from 2 two weeks ago)
Number of new COVID-19 cases

1,782 cases (up from 1,220 two weeks ago)
7-day rolling average of new COVID-19 cases

139 (up from 94 two weeks ago)
Current hospitalizations

181 hospitalizations
81 are Greene County residents
Additional information, including daily updates, can be found on the Health Department’s COVID-19 dashboard at COVID-19 (Novel Coronavirus) | Springfield, MO - Official Website (http://health.springfieldmo.gov/coronavirus)
People have been warned I feel in certain areas not getting the Covid 19 vaccine is a political statement or maybe ignorance. Now we might see natural selection rather than evolution.

[golfing eagles]

People have been warned I feel in certain areas not getting the Covid 19 vaccine is a political statement or maybe ignorance. Now we might see natural selection rather than evolution.

Care to guess what those people would have "evolved" into?????

I suggest viewing the movie "Idiocrasy"

[Altavia]

People have been warned I feel in certain areas not getting the Covid 19 vaccine is a political statement or maybe ignorance. Now we might see natural selection rather than evolution.

Except now more children are dying...

[kcrazorbackfan]

Sad to see this; I have several friends that live there.

[JMintzer]

Except now more children are dying...

Not trying to be flip, but going from one child dying to two is a 100% increase...

Still statistically minute...`

[Raywatkins]

We Brits are stuck in our country and can’t get to our home in TV due to COVID.
We are seeing similar trends to that flagged by OP.

There are a number of issues that we have seen.
The first and perhaps most significant is the vaccine program has now broken the link between case number and hospitalisation and death.
We are seeing steep rises in cases and are now up to a level last seen in the main peak earlier this year. However then we had around 1200 people dying on some days. Now it’s around 20-30. Still sad for the families involved but a much less bleak picture. The majority of our cases are in the younger age groups and hence they suffer less severely than those who are older. Schools have been a major breeding ground of late.
Like in the US we have some people who have declined vaccination. They make up the majority of those being hospitalised and dying.
Most of the statistics we get now in the UK are meaningless unless they are put into context.
Vaccination is working and fortunately our younger generations are using every opportunity to get jabbed. They seem to understand not only the importance to their own health but also that of the whole community.
Sadly just like the US we have a hard core of anti vaccers. They just don’t get that they are risking their lives. For it is this group that is making up most of those dying here in the UK.
The danger for us all is that these people provide the breeding ground for further variants. It is hopefully not going to lead to one that gets passed the vaccines but there is a risk.

The hope for us all is that the vaccines will soon reach a level in both our countries that allows it to be controlled. Then we can start to have more normal lives.
Let that be soon - we miss our house and friends in TV

[Leadbone1]

And just like many other supposed Covid deaths, many of those actually died of other causes! The national number is totally bogus

[banjobob]

Sad to hear of any deaths but to continue to hype the virus is not right, fear is done nicely by the media. Get the vaccine and live your life.

[westernrider75]

I work in healthcare and instead of our phone constantly ringing for people trying to get the vaccine, we now have a trickle of 5-10 people per day getting vaccinated. I’m hoping as the thought of students returning to the classroom (I live in a college town) becomes more real, more young people will come in.

[Altavia]

Child deaths from COVID are soaring in developing nations, possible related to the new variants and poorer health, hopefully not a canary for what's to come here.

‘Many more children will die’: Urgent call for COVID vaccines in Indonesia - Indonesia | ReliefWeb (https://reliefweb.int/report/indonesia/many-more-children-will-die-urgent-call-covid-vaccines-indonesia)

[davephan]

People have been warned I feel in certain areas not getting the Covid 19 vaccine is a political statement or maybe ignorance. Now we might see natural selection rather than evolution.

That could be true that people aren’t getting the vaccinations for political reasons. It could also be true that they don’t trust the possible consequences of taking the vaccinations, including many nurses who refuse to take the vaccinations.

I think it’s also probably a political statement to see a person in their convertible, with the top down, driving near no one, yet wearing a mask while driving alone in their convertible.

I’ve also heard from medical doctors that wearing cloth masks instead of tight fitting N95 masks is equivalent to trying to stop mosquitoes with a chain link fence. I think a lot of the mask wearing is infective and is mostly a “feel good” thing to do that really doesn’t work. Much of the mask wearing is probably a political statement, or confusion that wearing the masks actually makes a difference when it doesn’t make a difference.

The COVID-19 deaths have also been highly inflated. People have died of auto accidents and happened to test positive for COVID-19, counted as a COVID-19 death, when the real cause of death was the auto accident. Same goes for other actual non-COVID-19 causes of death, falsely being counted as additional COVID-19 deaths.

But the evidence so far is pretty conclusive that the vaccinations are very effective to drastically reduce the COVID-19 deaths.

[J1ceasar]

You may not realize it but Springfield has a big airport where a lot of visitors coming to go to Branson. That may be one of the reasons. But at any event it's still a lot of people dying for no reason when they are now three or four effective vaccines. I do understand that some people are still scared of getting a vaccination that was not created in a normal way but through DNA manipulation

[maggie1]

And just like many other supposed Covid deaths, many of those actually died of other causes! The national number is totally bogus

I'm sure we'd all be interested in where you obtained your data in order to make such a statement. Please advise.

[Lindsyburnsy]

Thank goodness TV is one of the highest vaccinated areas in the state. It’s good to see that regardless of politics, sensibility wins. ������������*♀️

[forebubba]

And just like many other supposed Covid deaths, many of those actually died of other causes! The national number is totally bogus

Wow, just wow. Keep thinking that.
Many believe the number of deaths due to covid is higher. Those who never went to the hospital

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Springfield-Greene Co. Health Dept. announces 17 new COVID-19 deaths as cases, hospitalizations rise (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/springfield-greene-co-health-dept-announces-17-new-covid-19-deaths-as-cases-hospitalizations-rise/ar-AALQzWb?ocid=uxbndlbing)


The Springfield-Greene County Health Department is saddened to report the deaths of 17 Greene County residents from COVID-19 for the June 21-July 4 reporting period. All 17 fatalities occurred in June. Those who died range in age from their 40s to their 90s. The last time the Health Department reported 17 deaths in a reporting period was January 27.

Two of the individuals who died did not seek medical attention, highlighting the importance of seeking emergency medical care when signs of severe illness from COVID-19 arise. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, if an individual is showing any of the following symptoms, they should seek emergency care immediately:

Trouble breathing
Persistent pain or pressure in the chest
New confusion
Inability to wake or stay awake
Pale, gray or blue-colored skin, lips, or nail beds – depending on skin tone
If someone is showing any of these symptoms, they or a loved one or friend should immediately call 911 and inform the operator of their COVID-19 diagnoses.

Of the reported deaths, none were fully vaccinated according to the state of Missouri’s COVID-19 vaccine database.

“This should be extremely concerning to our community, especially as the highly contagious Delta variant continues to infect and hospitalize many people,” said Acting Director of Health Katie Towns. “It’s our responsibility to protect ourselves and our loved ones from this deadly virus by getting vaccinated. Additionally, if someone we know has COVID-19, we need to check in on them and watch for any signs of severe illness that may require hospitalization.”

On Monday, 121 new confirmed cases of COVID-19 were reported to the Health Department, bringing our seven-day average to 139 cases per day. This represents a 20% increase in cases over the past seven days. As of Tuesday morning,181 individuals were being treated for COVID-19 at Springfield hospitals.

Over the last two weeks, the 31-40 age group had the highest increase in new cases compared to the last two weeks. Cases in children ages zero to four also significantly increased (see chart below):



Vaccination is the best tool we have to fight COVID-19 and the variants. Unfortunately, our community continues to fall behind the state and nation in the percent of individuals fully vaccinated. More than 60% of Greene County residents 12 and over are unvaccinated, putting themselves and others at risk of serious complications due to COVID-19. The Health Department continues to work hard to make the COVID-19 vaccine easily accessible for everyone who is eligible. Those still needing a vaccine can visit vaccine417.com or call the Health Department’s COVID-19 Call Center at (417) 874-1211 for a list of available opportunities.

Number of Greene County residents fully vaccinated (as of July 6)

98,862 Greene County residents 12 and older have been fully vaccinated
According to the CDC, 55.4% of Americans 12+ have been fully vaccinated. This compares to 39.19% in Greene County.
For the reporting period from June 21-July 4, 2021:

COVID-19 deaths

17 deaths (up from 2 two weeks ago)
Number of new COVID-19 cases

1,782 cases (up from 1,220 two weeks ago)
7-day rolling average of new COVID-19 cases

139 (up from 94 two weeks ago)
Current hospitalizations

181 hospitalizations
81 are Greene County residents
Additional information, including daily updates, can be found on the Health Department’s COVID-19 dashboard at COVID-19 (Novel Coronavirus) | Springfield, MO - Official Website (http://health.springfieldmo.gov/coronavirus)

Thank goodness! For a minute, I thought folks were dying more than once!
Seriously, the vaccine helps save lives. Get it if you’re over 18 years old.

[Swoop]

Another example of the media using a small sample set and blowing it out of proportion. Currently, the 7 day average Covid death rate in the US is 166. That means you are 2.5 times more likely to die in an accident than you would be to die from Covid. So it’s a good thing that you stayed locked down during that violent hurricane, because the likelihood of being killed by flying debris was higher than dying from Covid...

[matandch]

Vaccination rates have plateaued and stagnated. Until we reach herd immunity via 70-80% of entire US population vaccinated Covid-19 will continue to smolder and flare around us for the foreseeable future which cold be years.

[matandch]

Vaccination rates have plateaued and stagnated. Until we reach herd immunity via 70-80% of entire US population vaccinated, Covid-19 will continue to smolder and flare around us for the foreseeable future which cold be years.

[Bogie Shooter]

You may not realize it but Springfield has a big airport where a lot of visitors coming to go to Branson. That may be one of the reasons. But at any event it's still a lot of people dying for no reason when they are now three or four effective vaccines. I do understand that some people are still scared of getting a vaccination that was not created in a normal way but through DNA manipulation

No, they are not getting vaccination because……….watching too much of Fox talking heads.

[NoMoSno]

...and thousands continue to cross the southern border. Many C19 positive.
Yet the northern border is still closed to only essential traffic.

[merrymini]

I guess everyone who disagrees with you is “stupid.” You must be soooooo smart!

[BlkBlt6]

No, they are not getting vaccination because……….watching too much of Fox talking heads.

Now that’s nutty!

[allsport]

Care to guess what those people would have "evolved" into?????

I suggest viewing the movie "Idiocrasy"

Back on the MO farms they call it thinning the herd.

[44Apple]

And just like many other supposed Covid deaths, many of those actually died of other causes! The national number is totally bogus


Please supply a non-political link backing up that statement.

[Gizemo33]

And just like many other supposed Covid deaths, many of those actually died of other causes! The national number is totally bogus

If people continue not to get vaccinated and think as you have expressed, that statistics of bogus, then this situation will never be resolved.

It is not bogus, it’s factual. Facts are the truth.

[Pat2015]

Those who have died made the decision for themselves not to get vaccinated. People who are vaccinated are said to be covered against the variant, so it comes down to freedom of choice and the risk of potential consequences.

[Alana33]

Large increase in the British Virgin Islands.
BVI Facing Hundreds of Active COVID-19 Cases in Sudden Surge *Update* | St. Thomas Source (https://stthomassource.com/content/2021/07/08/bvi-grappling-with-hundreds-of-active-covid-19-cases-in-sudden-surge/)

[Guitarman1951]

People have been warned I feel in certain areas not getting the Covid 19 vaccine is a political statement or maybe ignorance. Now we might see natural selection rather than evolution.
It isn't a political statement at all. Trump got the vaccination off to a fast start working with the big pharma companies. To say it is ignorance is a pompas and ignorant statement in itself. It is the thought that covid isn't that bad for those younger age groups. Misguided yes, partially due to the fact that the midwest wasn't affected nearly as bad as the more populous areas. Your statement about "natural selection" is offensive and shameful. We are talking about fellow Americans so don't talk down about them.

[Pat2015]

You may not realize it but Springfield has a big airport where a lot of visitors coming to go to Branson. That may be one of the reasons. But at any event it's still a lot of people dying for no reason when they are now three or four effective vaccines. I do understand that some people are still scared of getting a vaccination that was not created in a normal way but through DNA manipulation
People that are refusing the vaccines are doing so as they are not FDA approved, they feel their risk of getting it or becoming seriously ill and/or dying is very little based on statistics, and the long term effects of the vaccines are unknown.

[CFrance]

[QUOTE=davephan;1970451]That could be true that people aren’t getting the vaccinations for political reasons. It could also be true that they don’t trust the possible consequences of taking the vaccinations, including many nurses who refuse to take the vaccinations.

"I think it’s also probably a political statement to see a person in their convertible, with the top down, driving near no one, yet wearing a mask while driving alone in their convertible."
Many have found relief from seasonal allergies since having to wear a mask. No telling what the guy's reasoning is, but suggesting it's political seems unlikely. It's also been stated that some people running errands just leave it on while going from one place to another.

[Pat2015]

No, they are not getting vaccination because……….watching too much of Fox talking heads.
That’s simply not true as Fox on many occasions has touted getting vaccinated and here’s a quote from Esquire, “ Brian Kilmeade, Steve Doocy, and Ainsley Earhardt have openly discussed how they got vaccinated, and are happy about it, on-air.” Here’s another quote “ Fox News anchors such as Bret Baier, Dana Perino and Bill Hemmer have posted photos on Instagram of themselves getting a shot. Harris Faulkner, who hosted a town hall meant to “debunk common myths” about the vaccine, told viewers in a public service announcement in February to get it if they can. And last month, Fox News senior political analyst Brit Hume said that he was fully vaccinated and urged “everybody to do that.” That’s not to say that there aren’t some differences of opinion on getting vaccinated but that’s a personal decision, and not a network decision.

[Lizziemay]

I wonder how many people died in car accidents that tested positive for covid ? Do you really think the medical community is testing dead people ?

[Bucco]

No, they are not getting vaccination because……….watching too much of Fox talking heads.

Unbelievable as it sounds, there is much truth to this sadly.

Yesterday morning (Thursday) I happen to get on Fox in the morning.

The three person crew was actually mocking those who got the vaccine, making fun of Faucci, and coming up with excuses not to get the vaccine.

This from a network who claims patriotism (while veterans were used in a con foundation, where they they refuse to admit actually what happened at the capitol, etc)

I do think with so many naysayers (unfounded) we are in for much more with, what we have been warned, is and will be a rapidly mutating virus.

A sad commentary on what has happened to my country.

[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=davephan;1970451]That could be true that people aren’t getting the vaccinations for political reasons. It could also be true that they don’t trust the possible consequences of taking the vaccinations, including many nurses who refuse to take the vaccinations.

"I think it’s also probably a political statement to see a person in their convertible, with the top down, driving near no one, yet wearing a mask while driving alone in their convertible."
Many have found relief from seasonal allergies since having to wear a mask. No telling what the guy's reasoning is, but suggesting it's political seems unlikely. It's also been stated that some people running errands just leave it on while going from one place to another.

We can make whatever excuse we want for these people, but in reality they suffer from life-changing paralyzing FEAR. PARANOIA. that's all. They will vehemently deny it, but despite all we know, they continue to believe they are protecting themselves with a mask, even though all the evidence shows it only does a little to protect those around us. They are not being altruistic, they are not protecting the rest of us by continuing to wear a mask alone, they are very simply AFRAID. Someone suggested they are only wearing it to prevent allergies. Fine. But if that is the case, where were all the pedestrians, cyclists, cart and car drivers wearing a mask pre-COVID? Did anyone see any? So if someone wants to say they've been wearing a mask while cycling for 10 years, I'll take their word for it, but that person would be the exception and does not explain the hundreds that are still wearing a mask. At a community theater production last night in a theater of 100-125, there were at least 20 wearing a mask. Were they allergic to the play? Were they immunocompromised and in reverse isolation? I don't think so.
And you know what? If they would just state they are wearing it out of fear, that would be OK also. Stupid, but OK. But instead they make every excuse in the book for wearing it, so obviously they are concealing their true reasoning (or lack thereof)
Sorry if that is offensive to the <1% of the population it describes, but the truth is the truth, even if some won't face it.

[Bucco]

That’s simply not true as Fox on many occasions has touted getting vaccinated and here’s a quote from Esquire, “ Brian Kilmeade, Steve Doocy, and Ainsley Earhardt have openly discussed how they got vaccinated, and are happy about it, on-air.” That’s not to say that there aren’t some differences of opinion on getting vaccinated but that’s a personal decision, and not a network decision.

No doubt true, yet many are mocking people who got vaccinated, and are literally begging people to listen to reason. This continues loudly on that network, and makes you wonder what exactly they are rooting for.

Don’t get it, give your reasons, but the mocking and giggling, the laughing at people who are asking us to take this seriously is not acceptable to me, but not surprising with this source

[thelegges]

I wonder how many people died in car accidents that tested positive for covid ? Do you really think the medical community is testing dead people ?

Yes they are. And reviewing old death certificates that were not tested, and possible change to Covid related. Don’t forget every facility gets $$$ for each case.

Our best friends son stage 4 Mets to lung, brain, his Mom (hospice nurse) did his hospice in their home, never out in public, for 4 months. Not tested. His certificate is in review to change to Covid. He was 29

Our best friend, he and his wife both Anesthesiologists, she was stage 4, Mets, septic. Hospice in home by her husband, at their 25 acre cottage, for 3 months, No outside contact. Cardiac Arrest on their way to hospital, did CPR in the parking lot of rest area. Pronounced at scene. Never tested Certificate in review for possible Covid Death. She was 62.

So two examples close to my heart, families are fighting the change in cause of death, that is in review.

[Bogie Shooter]

That’s simply not true as Fox on many occasions has touted getting vaccinated and here’s a quote from Esquire, “ Brian Kilmeade, Steve Doocy, and Ainsley Earhardt have openly discussed how they got vaccinated, and are happy about it, on-air.” That’s not to say that there aren’t some differences of opinion on getting vaccinated but that’s a personal decision, and not a network decision.

Can you say the same for Hannity??

[NoMoSno]

Can you say the same for Hannity??
Yes.
Try again.

[justjim]

And just like many other supposed Covid deaths, many of those actually died of other causes! The national number is totally bogus

And you know this how? Geez…

[thelegges]

And you know this how? Geez…

Read post #38, unless you are involved, you will never know

[Pat2015]

Can you say the same for Hannity??
As I said, there are some who don’t support the vaccine everywhere in our country but overall many on FOX do support the vaccines. Another quote, “Fox News anchors such as Bret Baier, Dana Perino and Bill Hemmer have posted photos on Instagram of themselves getting a shot. Harris Faulkner, who hosted a town hall meant to “debunk common myths” about the vaccine, told viewers in a public service announcement in February to get it if they can. And last month, Fox News senior political analyst Brit Hume said that he was fully vaccinated and urged “everybody to do that.”

[Bucco]

Yes.
Try again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2021/05/14/fox-vaccine-mixed-message/

[Bucco]

As I said, there are some who don’t support the vaccine everywhere in our country but overall many on FOX do support the vaccines. It’s a personal choice, not a network choice.

Just a coincidence that those who mock, and make fun are all on that network ?

[NoMoSno]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2021/05/14/fox-vaccine-mixed-message/
Try reading from your article:

"Fox News host Sean Hannity has been on something of a vaccine roller coaster. He said in January that he was “beginning to have doubts” about getting a shot, despite telling friends he was planning to. On his radio show last month, he said he was “not anti-vaccine” but did not plan to reveal whether he eventually got one.

“It’s none of your business,” Hannity said. “I probably would have told people my decision until everyone started demanding that I tell them what my decision is.” He said taking the vaccine “has got to be an individual decision” and encouraged his listeners to read about people who have had negative reactions to the vaccine. (He didn’t specify what they should read, but the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s literature makes clear that severe side effects to the vaccine are rare.)

After going back and forth for weeks, Hannity ultimately said he would get a shot."

[DAVES]

People have been warned I feel in certain areas not getting the Covid 19 vaccine is a political statement or maybe ignorance. Now we might see natural selection rather than evolution.

We seem to need or want bad news. The OP is from MISSOURI. As far as Covid 19 vaccine. Perhaps yet another example of our current views. People with no medical knowledge, read or hear something and decide not to get a vaccine. Polio, tuberculosis
were virtually wiped out with vaccines.

I am in the old group with other medical issues. I got the shot. As far as natural selection most dare not go down that path but Covid 19 is killing older weaker people.
The black plague which killed half the people in Europe and changed history killed all age groups. Natural selection? We use medical practice to prevent natural selection.
Far easier to say when it is not you or anyone you care about. I for one dare to ask why we say you should put down a pet who is in pain, to do otherwise many would say you are evil. Yet, it is illegal to do the same for yourself or any human etc of course the government sends people to war and criminals to the death penalty. I have far more questions than answers.

[Bucco]

Try reading from your article:

"Fox News host Sean Hannity has been on something of a vaccine roller coaster. He said in January that he was “beginning to have doubts” about getting a shot, despite telling friends he was planning to. On his radio show last month, he said he was “not anti-vaccine” but did not plan to reveal whether he eventually got one.

“It’s none of your business,” Hannity said. “I probably would have told people my decision until everyone started demanding that I tell them what my decision is.” He said taking the vaccine “has got to be an individual decision” and encouraged his listeners to read about people who have had negative reactions to the vaccine. (He didn’t specify what they should read, but the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s literature makes clear that severe side effects to the vaccine are rare.)

After going back and forth for weeks, Hannity ultimately said he would get a shot."

Oh, I read it, and posted the link to make a point.

Mixed messages galore from that area. Hope you are aware of other comments he has made, etc. he gives av free ride to those who attack personally those favoring the vaccine.

As I said it another post, I watched three folks...morning show..two guys and a gal who were having fun at the expense of Faucci, and others who are literally begging people to get vaccinated. They seemed to enjoy the character assassination.

[JMintzer]

I'm sure we'd all be interested in where you obtained your data in order to make such a statement. Please advise.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=car+accident+reported+as+covi d+death

The same thing (reporting MVA deaths as covid deaths) was happening in other states, as well... There is a video from the Department of health in (I think Colorado) saying the same thing Desantis was questioning. That MVA were counted as Covid deaths if they tested positive. Same with shooting, etc...

CDPHE explains how it classifies COVID-19 deaths - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_NWGrXv7YY)

Add to that, hospice patients, with Stage IV Cancer, sent to hospice to be kept comfortable as the die, were also counted as Covid deaths if they tested positive post mortem...

Now, I'm not saying that thousands and thousands didn't die of Covid. Just that it appears the numbers were inflated in many cases...

[JMintzer]

I wonder how many people died in car accidents that tested positive for covid ? Do you really think the medical community is testing dead people ?

Yes, they are...

[Bucco]

. I’ve not seen that but have seen many in there promote the vaccine such as Harris, Faulkner, Perino, Hume, and many others. A difference of opinion exists throughout the country and it’s a freedom of choice to get vaccinated or not.


With a large audience comes responsibility

[justjim]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=car+accident+reported+as+covi d+death

The same thing (reporting MVA deaths as covid deaths) was happening in other states, as well... There is a video from the Department of health in (I think Colorado) saying the same thing Desantis was questioning. That MVA were counted as Covid deaths if they tested positive. Same with shooting, etc...

CDPHE explains how it classifies COVID-19 deaths - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_NWGrXv7YY)

Add to that, hospice patients, with Stage IV Cancer, sent to hospice to be kept comfortable as the die, were also counted as Covid deaths if they tested positive post mortem...

Now, I'm not saying that thousands and thousands didn't die of Covid. Just that it appears the numbers were inflated in many cases...

With reporting there are always some mistakes. Some believe there were a number who died from Covid even before they started testing. The point is that thousands no doubt have died from this virus and the vaccine is keeping more thousands protected. If you are able medically please get the vaccine.

[Pat2015]

Try reading from your article:

"Fox News host Sean Hannity has been on something of a vaccine roller coaster. He said in January that he was “beginning to have doubts” about getting a shot, despite telling friends he was planning to. On his radio show last month, he said he was “not anti-vaccine” but did not plan to reveal whether he eventually got one.

“It’s none of your business,” Hannity said. “I probably would have told people my decision until everyone started demanding that I tell them what my decision is.” He said taking the vaccine “has got to be an individual decision” and encouraged his listeners to read about people who have had negative reactions to the vaccine. (He didn’t specify what they should read, but the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s literature makes clear that severe side effects to the vaccine are rare.)

After going back and forth for weeks, Hannity ultimately said he would get a shot."

I have no issue with any of his comments that you referenced. Many people have doubts about the vaccines and have gotten vaccinated in spite of those doubts. The vaccines still do not have FDA approval, the long term side effects are unknown, efficiencies are being questioned thus discussions of boosters, two vaccines were pulled off the market for a short time, and yes sadly some people have died from getting vaccinated. These are all facts that should be mentioned in discussions, and it’s a personal decision after listening to all the facts about vaccines as to someone’s choice to get vaccinated or not.

[Pat2015]

With a large audience comes responsibility
Agree, and that responsibility comes with presenting all the facts about the vaccines, not just cherry pick what suits one side of the debate. Different personalities on FOX have different feelings about the vaccines just like all Americans do, and all facts should be presented which is what newscasts are supposed to be about.

[justjim]

OP, we have good friends who live in Branson, Mo. They are sad because many of their neighbors have gotten Covid and not vaccinated. The vaccine was “pushed” through by a Republican President and “pushed” operationally by a Democrat President. It’s proven affective. What the hell else is there to care or argue about? It’s just smart and wise to get vaccinated unless you have some medical reason that would prohibit you.

[Swoop]

Every day there are 1,300 smoking related deaths. Every day. That’s 475,000 deaths per year. Not just in 2020, EVERY year. Where is the news media outrage? How about a door to door campaign to stop smoking? Fear sells. Covid generates fear. Hurricanes generate fear. Turn off your TV’s - stop being sheep and listening to the news media cry wolf…

[NoMoSno]

I have no issue with any of his comments that you referenced. Many people have doubts about the vaccines and have gotten vaccinated in spite of those doubts. The vaccines still do not have FDA approval, the long term side effects are unknown, efficiencies are being questioned thus discussions of boosters, two vaccines were pulled off the market for a short time, and yes sadly some people have died from getting vaccinated. These are all facts that should be mentioned in discussions, and it’s a personal decision after listening to all the facts about vaccines as to someone’s choice to get vaccinated or not.
Agree.

[Altavia]

Children, who can't get vaccinated, are dying because the adults around then refuse to be vaccinated.

[jimjamuser]

And just like many other supposed Covid deaths, many of those actually died of other causes! The national number is totally bogus
That is an untrue rationalization. Maybe change the TV channel that brings that information.

[jimjamuser]

Another example of the media using a small sample set and blowing it out of proportion. Currently, the 7 day average Covid death rate in the US is 166. That means you are 2.5 times more likely to die in an accident than you would be to die from Covid. So it’s a good thing that you stayed locked down during that violent hurricane, because the likelihood of being killed by flying debris was higher than dying from Covid...
Smart people CAN die in an accident. Smart people do NOT die from CV because they have been vaccinated. One death is mostly unavoidable and the other is completely avoidable.

[jimjamuser]

People that are refusing the vaccines are doing so as they are not FDA approved, they feel their risk of getting it or becoming seriously ill and/or dying is very little based on statistics, and the long term effects of the vaccines are unknown.
Propaganda talking.

[jimjamuser]

No doubt true, yet many are mocking people who got vaccinated, and are literally begging people to listen to reason. This continues loudly on that network, and makes you wonder what exactly they are rooting for.

Don’t get it, give your reasons, but the mocking and giggling, the laughing at people who are asking us to take this seriously is not acceptable to me, but not surprising with this source
I agree!

[Bucco]

[QUOTE=Patriceunger;1970632]Agree, and that responsibility comes with presenting all the facts about the vaccines, not just cherry pick what suits one side of the debate. Different personalities on FOX have different feelings about the vaccines just like all Americans do, and all facts should be presented which is what newscasts are supposed to be about.[/QUOTE

I believe the folks to whom you refer are not news folks, but simply reading what an editor thinks will grab some headlines.

There in lies the problem, when you watch Fox, or perhaps any of the cable outlets, they mix it up and it is almost over impossible to distinguish news, from whatever talk is supposed to be. ALL facts DO need to be given, and hope you know there is no difference between lying by commission and lying by omission. I have yet, and admittedly only watch in little dribs and drabs, seen any, not one Fox person give the entire story on
Faucci, only the tall tale of the day.

Many has made errors, and admitted them as have most of the scientific family trying to protect the country. On Fox, you pretty much will hear only what fits their narrative. Hannity or Carlson may sheepishly admit they got the vaccine and then launch into one of the Qanon tales about firing him. They have pretty much set out to destroy him.

[Pat2015]

Propaganda talking.
Actually, these are facts that matter to people, not propaganda.

[Pat2015]

The exact same points can be made about CNN which has the lowest news ratings of all the cable news networks, as you see their spin and parts of quotes and stories that fit their narrative and talking points of the day. Best to seek out middle ground instead of bingeing on either of them to find out what’s really going on in the country and the world.

[Vermilion Villager]

Your statement about "natural selection" is offensive and shameful. We are talking about fellow Americans so don't talk down about them.
What do you say to those "fellow Americans" who refuse to get vaccinated thus jeopardizing us all???
It's time it is said....CDC reports 98% of the hospitalizations and 99% of the deaths now are from the UN-VACCINATED!!!! Maybe it is time to start thinking it is better if the virus takes down the unvaccinated quickly before they can spread it.

Never thought I'd go there but the anti-vaxers have put me in that spot.

[JMintzer]

With reporting there are always some mistakes. Some believe there were a number who died from Covid even before they started testing. The point is that thousands no doubt have died from this virus and the vaccine is keeping more thousands protected. If you are able medically please get the vaccine.

I never said not to get vaccinated...

[JMintzer]

Smart people CAN die in an accident. Smart people do NOT die from CV because they have been vaccinated. One death is mostly unavoidable and the other is completely avoidable.

Simply not true. People who have been vaccinated HAVE died...

[Becca9800]

[QUOTE=CFrance;1970542]

We can make whatever excuse we want for these people, but in reality they suffer from life-changing paralyzing FEAR. PARANOIA. that's all. They will vehemently deny it, but despite all we know, they continue to believe they are protecting themselves with a mask, even though all the evidence shows it only does a little to protect those around us. They are not being altruistic, they are not protecting the rest of us by continuing to wear a mask alone, they are very simply AFRAID. Someone suggested they are only wearing it to prevent allergies. Fine. But if that is the case, where were all the pedestrians, cyclists, cart and car drivers wearing a mask pre-COVID? Did anyone see any? So if someone wants to say they've been wearing a mask while cycling for 10 years, I'll take their word for it, but that person would be the exception and does not explain the hundreds that are still wearing a mask. At a community theater production last night in a theater of 100-125, there were at least 20 wearing a mask. Were they allergic to the play? Were they immunocompromised and in reverse isolation? I don't think so.
And you know what? If they would just state they are wearing it out of fear, that would be OK also. Stupid, but OK. But instead they make every excuse in the book for wearing it, so obviously they are concealing their true reasoning (or lack thereof)
Sorry if that is offensive to the <1% of the population it describes, but the truth is the truth, even if some won't face it.

Ha! Haha! Hardly life-changing fear or paranoia. If that's what you need to believe, go on then.

[Becca9800]

Yes they are. And reviewing old death certificates that were not tested, and possible change to Covid related. Don’t forget every facility gets $$$ for each case.

Our best friends son stage 4 Mets to lung, brain, his Mom (hospice nurse) did his hospice in their home, never out in public, for 4 months. Not tested. His certificate is in review to change to Covid. He was 29

Our best friend, he and his wife both Anesthesiologists, she was stage 4, Mets, septic. Hospice in home by her husband, at their 25 acre cottage, for 3 months, No outside contact. Cardiac Arrest on their way to hospital, did CPR in the parking lot of rest area. Pronounced at scene. Never tested Certificate in review for possible Covid Death. She was 62.

So two examples close to my heart, families are fighting the change in cause of death, that is in review.

So many of these examples out there that it should be impossible to not take notice. But...

[camaguey48]

Another example of the media using a small sample set and blowing it out of proportion. Currently, the 7 day average Covid death rate in the US is 166. That means you are 2.5 times more likely to die in an accident than you would be to die from Covid. So it’s a good thing that you stayed locked down during that violent hurricane, because the likelihood of being killed by flying debris was higher than dying from Covid...
You mean the ministry of propaganda and public enlightenment? Da?

[Becca9800]

IF this is political and it's the previous president's following that are refusing to get the vaccine, wouldn't it be nice if he made a public announcement that all of his followers do exactly what he did and get vaccinated.
He could be so effective and useful in doing this.

I am not chastising these people for their beliefs or support in him, they are fighting the system with his iron fist behind them.
But....he got the shot!!....
Follow his lead, side with him, get vaccinated.

I don't care that T got the vaccine, nor would I follow his direction to do so. THE one thing I hold against him, rushing this vaccine through without the usual testing. I hope he doesn't one day regret wanting all the credit for this vaccine. He may live to regret it. I, believe it or not, can think for myself. So that kinda shoots the theory that this is a political decision, doesn't it?

[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;1970565]

Ha! Haha! Hardly life-changing fear or paranoia. If that's what you need to believe, go on then.

Then what do YOU think it is????? Remember---there is absolutely no medical reason to wear a mask when cycling alone, not even at the height of the pandemic, so give me a alternative reason that makes sense.

[Becca9800]

[QUOTE=Becca9800;1970815]

Then what do YOU think it is????? Remember---there is absolutely no medical reason to wear a mask when cycling alone, not even at the height of the pandemic, so give me a alternative reason that makes sense.

Oops. <head hanging> I misunderstood your response on the first read. I thought you were referencing the "anti-vaxxers", didn't understand that you were dissing the "pro-maskers". I was wrong, I take it back, and I apologize. Please forgive.

[JMintzer]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;1970828]

Oops. <head hanging> I misunderstood your response on the first read. I thought you were referencing the "anti-vaxxers", didn't understand that you were dissing the "pro-maskers". I was wrong, I take it back, and I apologize. Please forgive.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/GhZag5ZE--26HWQaXsasdvehTaye12CtYs5uf4dUa_DOC4vMJQTVbinAHWg0 ljE55DAU_EXWZLeOnD5_7ah5bHqxThcz7mBFx8pGj9XKQSjFNI bEEk5QMo0fjCd4FQfhK3IuEUevq20ArOIWWFD7IFJMc_qONuQK gEQ

[JMintzer]

Then what do YOU think it is????? Remember---there is absolutely no medical reason to wear a mask when cycling alone, not even at the height of the pandemic, so give me a alternative reason that makes sense.

"Virtue Signaling"...

I had a patient in my office, a few weeks ago, well after MD and DC had started opening up that was wearing two masks.

I asked him if he had been vaccinated (he had), and why he was still wearing two masks.

He went on and on that he wanted to show others that they were foolish if they didn't do the same. I asked, "What about the experts who now say it's unnecessary?" No change in his opinion. He simply wanted to show others his superiority by wearing two masks. He also wanted to "shame others" into doing the same. Yes, he actually said that...

Then, he started in that he wanted the government to develop an app that would alert others if they were near anyone who had not been vaccinated. He had no concept of privacy, no concern for HIPAA regulations. "Just change them" was his solution...

When I asked him, "What about those without a smart phone?", he said "they should be forced to get one, and that the government should issue them if they couldn't afford one"...

Hell, half of my patients can barely use a regular cell phone (my patient population skews much older), so a smart phone is off the table for many of them...

[Becca9800]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;1970828]

"Virtue Signaling"...

I had a patient in my office, a few weeks ago, well after MD and DC had started opening up that was wearing two masks.

I asked him if he had been vaccinated (he had), and why he was still wearing two masks.

He went on and on that he wanted to show others that they were foolish if they didn't do the same. I asked, "What about the experts who now say it's unnecessary?" No change in his opinion. He simply wanted to show others his superiority by wearing two masks. He also wanted to "shame others" into doing the same. Yes, he actually said that...

Then, he started in that he wanted the government to develop an app that would alert others if they were near anyone who had not been vaccinated. He had no concept of privacy, no concern for HIPAA regulations. "Just change them" was his solution...

When I asked him, "What about those without a smart phone?", he said "they should be forced to get one, and that the government should issue them if they couldn't afford one"...

Hell, half of my patients can barely use a regular cell phone (my patient population skews much older), so a smart phone is off the table for many of them...

Umm, Firstly, you need to fix your quote box there (#76), it's showing that GE's quote was made by me. Secondly, any discussion about why/why not vaccinate is simply lost on each other. "They" aren't going to change my mind and I'm not going to change their's. So I try really really hard not to jump into those discussions. Instead, I laugh at the fools who think the vaccine will protect them, even when after being vaccinated they still contract and still pass the bug. When after being vaccinated, they're told to still mask up, still social distance, and get in line for a third jab. I'm kidding! Kind of. But not really. I don't laugh at them. Point being, you do you and let me do me. Why can't "they" just get that?

[JMintzer]

Umm, Firstly, you need to fix your quote box there (#76), it's showing that GE's quote was made by me. Secondly, any discussion about why/why not vaccinate is simply lost on each other. "They" aren't going to change my mind and I'm not going to change their's. So I try really really hard not to jump into those discussions. Instead, I laugh at the fools who think the vaccine will protect them, even when after being vaccinated they still contract and still pass the bug. When after being vaccinated, they're told to still mask up, still social distance, and get in line for a third jab. I'm kidding! Kind of. But not really. I don't laugh at them. Point being, you do you and let me do me. Why can't "they" just get that?

Firstly, Done and done...

Secondly, I agree. Getting vaccinated or not is a personal decision. I may disagree with said decision, but it's not my decision to make for anyone else...

[Girlcopper]

People have been warned I feel in certain areas not getting the Covid 19 vaccine is a political statement or maybe ignorance. Now we might see natural selection rather than evolution.
Yep. Its usually ignorance and the “entitled” me. “You cant tell me what to do” attitude. Sooooo, I hope you have a plot picked out.
Besides, no need to keep posting stats. Who cares? Get vaccinated and hope for the best. Whether there are 5,000 cases or 1, whats the difference. Any of it could be you

[scottiesrgreat@gmail.com]

Oh goodness - these posts will never end. Live life - spread happiness and hope - accept the fact that you and your loved ones will eventually die (most have experienced this, are experiencing it, will experience it). Ask anyone on their death bed - in retrospect would they spend their time Googling and Regurgitating crap from internet searches - or spend time with friends and family, pets - smiling, laughing and just plain being happy and hopeful? Go out there and enjoy what is available - exude happiness and encouragement - yes, also take time to grieve when needed (it is part of life that no one can escape) - be there for those that need a simple smile. Life is so short (with Covid or not). I am going to enjoy this sunny day - blue sky - and smile at others as I pass them on my walk!

[Snprentice]

Can anyone believe these stats or is it a scare tactic? Not sure any reports can be trusted!

[Swoop]

Yep. Its usually ignorance and the “entitled” me. “You cant tell me what to do” attitude. Sooooo, I hope you have a plot picked out.
Besides, no need to keep posting stats. Who cares? Get vaccinated and hope for the best. Whether there are 5,000 cases or 1, whats the difference. Any of it could be you
Based on your logic, if you drive a car, you had better have your plot picked out…
And don’t let those nasty statistics effect your thinking…
Speaking of “ignorance” can you tell me what the long term effects of mRNA vaccines will be??? You can’t and neither can anyone else…

[virtualcynthia]

US COVID-19 cases and deaths by state | USAFacts (https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map)

National stats. Unfortunately, Florida is usually in the top three. Last 7 day average we were #1 for cases and #2 for deaths.

[Ptmckiou]

I’ve also heard from medical doctors that wearing cloth masks instead of tight fitting N95 masks is equivalent to trying to stop mosquitoes with a chain link fence. I think a lot of the mask wearing is infective and is mostly a “feel good” thing to do that really doesn’t work. Much of the mask wearing is probably a political statement, or confusion that wearing the masks actually makes a difference when it doesn’t make a difference.

After 18 months of continued CDC medical advice it’s disheartening to see this continued misunderstanding. From day one of pandemic, the CDC has explained that wearing a cloth mask is NOT to protect yourself, but to protect others from you. The Virus doesn’t move through the air, but moves in your spittle through the air. It rides on spit and the reason they tried to get everyone to wear masks is because that is the only way it works. They couldn’t have the public wear N95, because those masks that actually do protect you, needed to be given to the medical community. Thereby, wearing loose cloth masks was the alternative which kept your spit from reaching within six feet to infect another person. However, if the other person refused to wear a cloth mask, then their spittle could go right through your lose cloth mask (if within six feet). Now maybe you understand why it was important for ALL to wear masks when we were at the peak of the pandemic. Thankfully, most are vaccinated and it’s behind us, but one doesn’t vaccinate then you may suffer the consequence. Personally, I like the guarantee I won’t die of COVID-19 because of being vaccinated. The vaccine technology was under development for 10 years, and can be applied to most any virus now that comes along. It’s like inventing the wheel, when there was no wheel. Game changer.

[Ptmckiou]

[
Speaking of “ignorance” can you tell me what the long term effects of mRNA vaccines will be??? You can’t and neither can anyone else…

The mRNA technology has been in development for over 10 years and does not change YOUR DNA. That is misinformation. This technology can now be applied to most any virus, not just COVID. I know one long term effect will be not getting a bad case of COVID, long haul symptoms, or death from COVID. At our age, the chance of those things happening far out weight, the vaccine minor possibilities. So..long term effect is no debilitating virus guaranteed. I guess those first developmental vaccines many decades ago for polio and the like scared people too. Nevertheless, I trust science much more than the disinfo campaign machines out there.

[Mohawksin]

I'm sure we'd all be interested in where you obtained your data in order to make such a statement. Please advise.
Enter this;

illinois definition of covid death video

into the youtube search bar

[Swoop]

[


The mRNA technology has been in development for over 10 years and does not change YOUR DNA. That is misinformation. This technology can now be applied to most any virus, not just COVID. I know one long term effect will be not getting a bad case of COVID, long haul symptoms, or death from COVID. At our age, the chance of those things happening far out weight, the vaccine minor possibilities. So..long term effect is no debilitating virus guaranteed. I guess those first developmental vaccines many decades ago for polio and the like scared people too. Nevertheless, I trust science much more than the disinfo campaign machines out there.
The mRNA delivery system has never had any long term effect studies done. That is a fact. No one has any idea how mRNA vaccines will impact your immune system over time. They certainly are safe in the short term. But long term - absolutely no one knows…

[roscoguy]

...you are 2.5 times more likely to die in an accident than you would be to die from Covid. So it’s a good thing that you stayed locked down during that violent hurricane, because the likelihood of being killed by flying debris was higher than dying from Covid...

Every day there are 1,300 smoking related deaths. Every day. That’s 475,000 deaths per year. Not just in 2020, EVERY year. Where is the news media outrage? How about a door to door campaign to stop smoking? Fear sells. Covid generates fear. Hurricanes generate fear. Turn off your TV’s - stop being sheep and listening to the news media cry wolf…
This goofball argument again?? It has probably been said dozens, or even hundreds, of times here already but smoking, car accidents, hurricanes, etc. are NOT contagious. There are no vaccines for these causes of death, none of them can mutate to potentially become more transmissible or virulent. Total apples/oranges comparisons.
You know what else sells? The outrage, fear & conspiracy theories peddled on opinion-based entertainment. Talk about sheep... :ohdear:

[JMintzer]

US COVID-19 cases and deaths by state | USAFacts (https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map)

National stats. Unfortunately, Florida is usually in the top three. Last 7 day average we were #1 for cases and #2 for deaths.

Also in the top three in population, so...

[Becca9800]

There are allot of die hards out there who don't want the shot bc the dems have an agenda and will do anything and everything not to side with them.... Trump and his clorox drinking ways need not come into play what's so ever.


1. I don't believe you give people any credit for the ability to think for themselves. Instead, you choose to believe they're so politically motivated they'd risk their lives. To me, that reasoning seems too absurd to be believed.
2.

[jimjamuser]

Based on your logic, if you drive a car, you had better have your plot picked out…
And don’t let those nasty statistics effect your thinking…
Speaking of “ignorance” can you tell me what the long term effects of mRNA vaccines will be??? You can’t and neither can anyone else…
The long-term effects of the vaccine ARE that up to 100,000 citizens in the US have NOT died and will NOT die. The future indisputable facts ARE that thousands of unvaccinated US citizens WILL, unfortunately, die this summer! Then, when school starts the children of unvaccinated parents will bring CV into the school - and thousands of vaccinated parents will be AFRAID to send their children to school because they love them.

There is another indisputable scientific fact - terrible long-haul CV symptoms will forever haunt unvaccinated young people - scientists have recently discovered that the virus can actually eat at their brains causing lower IQs and possibly (?) a whole generation of mediocrity? What parent upon realizing that fact will be eager to send their unvaccinated children indoors to school? Google Dr. Paul Hotez at Baylor U. for verification.

[Altavia]

COVID variant first gained foothold in rural Missouri (https://apnews.com/article/mo-state-wire-michael-brown-coronavirus-pandemic-health-49fe073aadeab3eff879fa2cf9b89f15)

COVID variant first gained foothold in rural Missouri

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) — A highly contagious coronavirus variant that is contributing to a surge of cases in Missouri first gained a foothold in rural areas of the state where vaccinations rates are low, a pattern not seen previously, state health officials say.

The delta variant, first detected in India, is becoming the predominant strain detected in wastewater in some parts of the state, particularly in the southwest corner, where COVID-19 hospitalizations are on the rise. And it is spreading much differently than the alpha variant, which first was detected in the United Kingdom, said Jeff Wenzel, who oversees the wastewater surveillance program for the Missouri Department of Health and Senior Services.

“With the U.K. variant,” he said, “we started seeing that in the larger cities and we saw that spread out into smaller communities, and we are seeing the opposite now with this delta variant.”

The delta variant also has turned up in wastewater samples in the Kansas City and St. Louis area. But Wenzel said, “In the larger cities, it just doesn’t seem, we just aren’t seeing it as readily as we are in some of the smaller communities.”

Officials aren’t yet sure why the spread has been so different but are exploring the possibility that lower vaccination rates in rural areas of the state are playing a role.

In St. Louis County, for instance, 48.4% of residents have received at least one dose. But the percentage is half that across a large swath of southwest and northern Missouri, where the biggest rise in cases have been reported, state data shows.

The variant is worrisome because it is not only more contagious, but also more likely to lead to hospitalizations.

Dr. George Turabelidze, the state epidemiologist, said that Missouri was vaccinating about 50,000 people a day in March and April but that the number has since fallen to about 10,000 a day, making the state’s vaccination rate among the lowest in the country.

“That is concerning because this new emerging variant is highly transmissible and the primary target is unvaccinated people,” he said in a video posted on the health department’s website Wednesday night.

Missouri now leads the nation with most new cases per capita. Over the past 14 days, it has recorded 144.9 new cases for every 100,000 residents, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

Lisa Cox, a spokeswoman for the health department, said the agency is exploring a variety of incentive options at the state level. But she said Thursday that she had no details.

An email message left for Republican Gov. Mike Parson’s communications staff was not immediately returned.

Besides inundating hospitals, cases are again causing problems for schools. In St. Joseph, the school district had to shift summer classes online last week at two schools because about 50% of the students were out sick with COVID-19 or another illness, quarantining or vacationing, said Bethany Clark, director of elementary education for the St. Joseph school district.

She said that wasn’t what she envisioned when the district was planning for the summer. Case numbers were so low this spring that the district even decided to make masks optional for summer school.

“I really thought, ‘Things are looking good. Summer school is a great option for opening up some of our restrictions. Let’s see how things work and we can return to as close to normal as we can in the fall,’” she recalled thinking. “And then yeah these cases. It was a hard hit because we really wanted, we really want to be post-pandemic.”

But the district is in Buchanan County, where just 20.8% of residents have received at least one shot.

“What you are looking at now is, Where is the virus most able to circulate?” said Dr. Bill Powderly, the co-director of the Division of Infectious Diseases at Washington University’s School of Medicine. “Where are the pockets of vulnerability? And the pockets of vulnerability across the United States are those communities with very low vaccination rates because that means they have lots of people who are susceptible to the virus and therefore the virus is much more likely to circulate.”

He noted that younger people are more likely to get sick than with earlier strains. But it is unclear whether even that will drive more vaccinations.

“If you are in a rural community where maybe a couple people got infected and nobody got sick, you think it is overblown and your political leaders are telling you it is no big deal,” he said. “You can understand why people start off the way they do, but I don’t want people to die in order to convince the rest of the population that they need to be vaccinated. I so hope that people will start to realize that this is not trivial.”

[jimjamuser]

Simply not true. People who have been vaccinated HAVE died...
That IS true, but the number is very small. There is NO perfect vaccine. Nothing in life is PERFECT. Overall the risk of NOT taking the vaccine is GREATER than the risk of taking it. When calculating mentally the risk of NOT taking the vaccine, do NOT go by JUST the deaths due to CV - factor in the long-haul complications percentage which is MUCH greater than the percentage of the deaths.

[jimjamuser]

After 18 months of continued CDC medical advice it’s disheartening to see this continued misunderstanding. From day one of pandemic, the CDC has explained that wearing a cloth mask is NOT to protect yourself, but to protect others from you. The Virus doesn’t move through the air, but moves in your spittle through the air. It rides on spit and the reason they tried to get everyone to wear masks is because that is the only way it works. They couldn’t have the public wear N95, because those masks that actually do protect you, needed to be given to the medical community. Thereby, wearing loose cloth masks was the alternative which kept your spit from reaching within six feet to infect another person. However, if the other person refused to wear a cloth mask, then their spittle could go right through your lose cloth mask (if within six feet). Now maybe you understand why it was important for ALL to wear masks when we were at the peak of the pandemic. Thankfully, most are vaccinated and it’s behind us, but one doesn’t vaccinate then you may suffer the consequence. Personally, I like the guarantee I won’t die of COVID-19 because of being vaccinated. The vaccine technology was under development for 10 years, and can be applied to most any virus now that comes along. It’s like inventing the wheel, when there was no wheel. Game changer.
Good logical post!

[jimjamuser]

This goofball argument again?? It has probably been said dozens, or even hundreds, of times here already but smoking, car accidents, hurricanes, etc. are NOT contagious. There are no vaccines for these causes of death, none of them can mutate to potentially become more transmissible or virulent. Total apples/oranges comparisons.
You know what else sells? The outrage, fear & conspiracy theories peddled on opinion-based entertainment. Talk about sheep... :ohdear:
Very good post!

[Swoop]

This goofball argument again?? It has probably been said dozens, or even hundreds, of times here already but smoking, car accidents, hurricanes, etc. are NOT contagious. There are no vaccines for these causes of death, none of them can mutate to potentially become more transmissible or virulent. Total apples/oranges comparisons.
You know what else sells? The outrage, fear & conspiracy theories peddled on opinion-based entertainment. Talk about sheep... :ohdear:

So you only fear things that are contagious?!? Even when the likelihood of dying from that contagious virus, at this point, is truly minuscule…
To avoid that minuscule probability, you are willing to join the largest drug trial in history. A trial where the long term effects are completely unknown. That’s pretty much the definition of a sheep…

[GrumpyOldMan]

So you only fear things that are contagious?!? Even when the likelihood of dying from that contagious virus, at this point, is truly minuscule…
To avoid that minuscule probability, you are willing to join the largest drug trial in history. A trial where the long term effects are completely unknown. That’s pretty much the definition of a sheep…

The long-term effects are not completely unknown, they are not completely known. there is a difference.

[Swoop]

The long-term effects are not completely unknown, they are not completely known. there is a difference.

No one knows what the long term effects will be. No one.

[GrumpyOldMan]

No one knows what the long term effects will be. No one.

Depending on your definition of "long term effects" no one knows the long term effects of anything.

Helmets don't protect football players perfectly, seatbelts don't protect drivers and passengers perfectly, polio vaccinations don't protect people perfectly. While so many are waiting for perfection and proof it is perfect, people are dying that don't have to die.

There is NO guarantee. All we have are lots of people working to learn how to do something and recommending that the vaccine is safer than not taking the vaccine.

As long as there is no law requiring vaccinations, then people can make up their own minds. Personally, I would like to see vaccinations REQUIRED by law.

But, that is not going to happen, so all these arguments more or less sound like an old couple just repeating the same old arguments they have been having for the past 40 years. Round and round the argument goes, and nothing new is ever said, and neither side is willing to actually listen to the other side.

[Boomer]

In my Ohio city, a high-profile, local talk radio propagandizer ran his mega-mouth, sewing seeds of doubt about the virus. Then Covid hit close to his life, including killing a good friend.

Now, he tells his listeners to get the shot. But during all those months of ranting on the radio — before real life changed his mind — I have to wonder how much damage he caused to those in his audience who tune in to be kept all whipped up into a frenzy of anger and paranoia. (I have always felt that those who make a living spewing poison have nothing but contempt for the American people — and the ones for whom they have the most contempt are their loyal followers.)

Missouri does not seem very capable of changing. The “Show Me State” is now showing us all that cult mentality has taken over common sense and medical advice. I wonder how their big tourist attraction Branson is holding up. I read recently that the average age for Covid hospitalizations in MO is 54.7. That is young — young and dumb?

Like Pogo said, “We have met the enemy and he is us.”

Boomer

[Topspinmo]

People have been warned I feel in certain areas not getting the Covid 19 vaccine is a political statement or maybe ignorance. Now we might see natural selection rather than evolution.

I disagree, not all people out in sticks has ability to get shots or access to web, and may only antenna TV. You don’t know their circumstances so you’re political view are irrelevant and IMO kind of mean with natural selection statement. These people have families.

[Topspinmo]

In my Ohio city, a high-profile, local talk radio propagandizer ran his mega-mouth, sewing seeds of doubt about the virus. Then Covid hit close to his life, including killing a good friend.

Now, he tells his listeners to get the shot. But during all those months of ranting on the radio — before real life changed his mind — I have to wonder how much damage he caused to those in his audience who tune in to be kept all whipped up into a frenzy of anger and paranoia. (I have always felt that those who make a living spewing poison have nothing but contempt for the American people — and the ones for whom they have the most contempt are their loyal followers.)

Missouri does not seem very capable of changing. The “Show Me State” is now showing us all that cult mentality has taken over common sense and medical advice. I wonder how their big tourist attraction Branson is holding up. I read recently that the average age for Covid hospitalizations in MO is 54.7. That is young — young and dumb?

Like Pogo said, “We have met the enemy and he is us.”

Boomer

Political view babble and mean thinking you’re state more knowledge when in fact EVERY state in union has been affected by Virus. You have NO clue what’s going on in Missouri other than you political sites you frequently visit.

[roscoguy]

So you only fear things that are contagious?!? Even when the likelihood of dying from that contagious virus, at this point, is truly minuscule…
To avoid that minuscule probability, you are willing to join the largest drug trial in history. A trial where the long term effects are completely unknown. That’s pretty much the definition of a sheep…

More deflection. Or do you actually fear car accidents, hurricanes & smokers? :faint:
A huge reason that the chances of dying from Covid are so small is that some people are accepting the scientific advice & evidence from around the entire world and taking the vaccine and slowing the spread and mutation of the virus.

Drug trial? The vaccine manufacturers based their vaccines on 10+ year-old mRNA technology and did highly successful field trials. What alternative are you proposing - that we had waited through several more years of studies (and correlated deaths) until the FDA can announce that it is safe? Is that the one government agency that you totally trust? The CDC and NIAID are lying maybe?? A better definition of a 'sheep' may be somebody who ignores scores of scientists & experts from all over the globe to follow the paranoid rants of a few tv & internet entertainers.

[Topspinmo]

And of course, elected officials help out with their scientific and knowledgeable campaigns, always based on giving you fear of something or somebody, with a pinch of hate.....

“GOP Rep. Madison Cawthorn (N.C.) on Friday argued against President Biden’s proposed "door-to-door" pro-COVID-19 vaccine campaign, claiming the same methods could be used to “take” people's guns and Bibles.

Cawthorn made the assertion in a Friday interview with conservative news outlet Right Side Broadcasting Network at the Conservative Political Action Conference in Dallas.

“Now, they’re starting to talk about going door to door to be able to take vaccines to the people,” he said, referencing remarks Biden gave from the White House this week.”

Cawthorn: Biden door-to-door vaccine strategy could be used to 'take' guns, Bibles | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/562372-cawthorn-biden-door-to-door-vaccine-strategy-could-be-used-to-take-guns-bibles)

The same folks invited Brittany Spears to testify before Congress. I suppose some think she has answers

I guess you think EVERYBODY has different views than you’re. Yes, the world all on the other side. Get use to it.

You do realize Brittany wasn’t there testifying on virus right? O I sorry you failed to comprehend that part.

[Topspinmo]

US COVID-19 cases and deaths by state | USAFacts (https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map)

National stats. Unfortunately, Florida is usually in the top three. Last 7 day average we were #1 for cases and #2 for deaths.


Why is that? Mmmmm, maybe cause the world traveling in and out of Florida every day?

[Bucco]

I guess you think EVERYBODY has different views than you’re. Yes, the world all on the other side. Get use to it.

You do realize Brittany wasn’t there testifying on virus right? O I sorry you failed to comprehend that part.

Sorry, it all happened in the same time period...ie., refusing to take part in a congressional investigation into the attack on our capital, followed by the welcome to Brittany to come and be heard,

If she is considered to be more important than finding out exactly who was responsible for the worst insurrection and attack in history (not to mention the 30 million dollars in damage), I just thought maybe she was the “go to” for virus answers.

And, as you imply daily, you are much smarter and well read than I, so you will excuse me.....I still work with factual things....you know logic.

[Bucco]

I guess you think EVERYBODY has different views than you’re. Yes, the world all on the other side. Get use to it.

You do realize Brittany wasn’t there testifying on virus right? O I sorry you failed to comprehend that part.

Oh, and yes this is the first time hearing this bizarre conspiracy theory .....as he said...

““Think about the mechanisms they would have to build to be able to actually execute that massive of a thing,” Cawthorn continued. “And then think about what those mechanisms could be used for. They could then go door to door and take your guns. They could go door to door and take your Bibles.”

I was in awe, and since the thread was discussing why some don’t get the shot, and knowing the sideshow from Chinese Hoax, and using Hydroxychloroquine, etc., etc, I felt it was well inside the narrative.

Amazing how many FACTS you wish to exclude from discussion.

[Boomer]

In my Ohio city, a high-profile, local talk radio propagandizer ran his mega-mouth, sewing seeds of doubt about the virus. Then Covid hit close to his life, including killing a good friend.

Now, he tells his listeners to get the shot. But during all those months of ranting on the radio — before real life changed his mind — I have to wonder how much damage he caused to those in his audience who tune in to be kept all whipped up into a frenzy of anger and paranoia. (I have always felt that those who make a living spewing poison have nothing but contempt for the American people — and the ones for whom they have the most contempt are their loyal followers.)

Missouri does not seem very capable of changing. The “Show Me State” is now showing us all that cult mentality has taken over common sense and medical advice. I wonder how their big tourist attraction Branson is holding up. I read recently that the average age for Covid hospitalizations in MO is 54.7. That is young — young and dumb?

Like Pogo said, “We have met the enemy and he is us.”

Boomer


Political view babble and mean thinking you’re state more knowledge when in fact EVERY state in union has been affected by Virus. You have NO clue what’s going on in Missouri other than you political sites you frequently visit.



Please don't take it personally, Topspinmo. It's not like my home state of Ohio is taking any prizes.

Mayo Clinic has a site that tracks percentages of vaccinations by state and age group. Older people have the highest percentages of being vaccinated -- and although political bent possibly applies somewhat to those who are younger, I don't think it does for most older people.

I certainly understand that there are those who won't get the vaccine due to health issues that make risk possibly outweigh benefit if they take the shot. In fact, I know one such person. She is being very careful. She has to be.

But what I am so tired of is hearing the litany of excuses that have been programmed into the anti-vaxxers -- who have been convinced that they are oh so much smarter than the rest of us, so in the know.

Then we have the completely over-the-edge types who think we will be magnetized if we get the vaccine. In spite of the mock-ability factor of those paranoid theories, it is actually, truly awful to realize that there are those who really believe that kind of thing.

I have now reached the point where I think of the denial types as being freeloaders -- plain and simple -- riding on the responsibility taken by the rest of us -- freeloading.

Boomer

[Swoop]

More deflection. Or do you actually fear car accidents, hurricanes & smokers? :faint:
A huge reason that the chances of dying from Covid are so small is that some people are accepting the scientific advice & evidence from around the entire world and taking the vaccine and slowing the spread and mutation of the virus.

Drug trial? The vaccine manufacturers based their vaccines on 10+ year-old mRNA technology and did highly successful field trials. What alternative are you proposing - that we had waited through several more years of studies (and correlated deaths) until the FDA can announce that it is safe? Is that the one government agency that you totally trust? The CDC and NIAID are lying maybe?? A better definition of a 'sheep' may be somebody who ignores scores of scientists & experts from all over the globe to follow the paranoid rants of a few tv & internet entertainers.

The field trials of the Covid mRNA vaccines only lasted months. Prior mRNA trials never made it beyond phase one trials. No one knows what the long term effects of the vaccines will be. For those in the high risk category, the vaccine makes perfect sense. But if you’re not, your Covid risk is so low, that taking a vaccine with an untested delivery system, just doesn’t make sense.

[GrumpyOldMan]

The field trials of the Covid mRNA vaccines only lasted months. Prior mRNA trials never made it beyond phase one trials. No one knows what the long term effects of the vaccines will be. For those in the high risk category, the vaccine makes perfect sense. But if you’re not, your Covid risk is so low, that taking a vaccine with an untested delivery system, just doesn’t make sense.

I think you meant doesn't make sense TO YOU.

Because it does make sense to medical experts in that field all over the world.

[Swoop]

I think you meant doesn't make sense TO YOU.

Because it does make sense to medical experts in that field all over the world.

When Fauci was asked about his own staff, he guessed that 50-60% were vaccinated. Pretty much in line with the general US population.

What percentage of people who were vaccinated have any idea how the mRNA delivery system works? How many know that although scientists have experimented with mRNA for 10 years, it was never approved as a delivery system for human vaccines? How many know that there have been no studies about the long term effects of mRNA vaccines on the immune systems? And how many just blindly accepted the vaccine?

[Becca9800]

When Fauci was asked about his own staff, he guessed that 50-60% were vaccinated. Pretty much in line with the general US population.

What percentage of people who were vaccinated have any idea how the mRNA delivery system works? How many know that although scientists have experimented with mRNA for 10 years, it was never approved as a delivery system for human vaccines? How many know that there have been no studies about the long term effects of mRNA vaccines on the immune systems? And how many just blindly accepted the vaccine?

You're wasting your time and your energy. I'm w you 100% but just give it up, they ain't reasonable. I know they think it's we that aren't reasonable but I'm at the point I really don't care what they think.

[GrumpyOldMan]

When Fauci was asked about his own staff, he guessed that 50-60% were vaccinated. Pretty much in line with the general US population.


Can you tell me the reasons Fauci's staff is not vaccinated? Can you tell me what percentage of those have you imply they don't think it is safe, since you included it in your answer, which focuses on the "uncertainty" of outcome using the vaccination? What percentage of Fauci's staff that are not vaccinated have worked as heads of virus research projects and vaccine creating projects for over 40 years?

The US population includes 23% under 18 years old. Would you like to show any evidence that 50% of 18 years old and younger are uncertain of the outcome of the vaccine? Because if we start breaking out all the demographics your 50% that fall into the category of not wanting to take the vaccine because of a lack of testing sort of fall apart.


What percentage of people who were vaccinated have any idea how the mRNA delivery system works?


Do you know how electricity works? Do you understand how Rocket engines work?

Do you know how cruise control works on your car? Do you use it? Do you know and understand the testing to have it certified?

My point is, your point is meaningless. Almost everything in medicine is "unknown" to the majority of Americans. Yet, most Americans "blindly" follow their doctor's advice and take the medicine their doctors prescribe. Guess what that doesn't always turn out well, but on the other hand, it does turn out well more often than it does not.


How many know that although scientists have experimented with mRNA for 10 years, it was never approved as a delivery system for human vaccines?


I may be misreading your comment here, but the wording seems to me to imply it was not safe - so it wasn't released. I hope so, that is how science works - you don't release things until they are safe. Kind of like why things are in the last place you look for them because most people stop looking when they find them. Unlike most people, scientists continue to study vaccines - even after they find them.

The Influenza vaccine was researched (experimented with) for 15 years before being authorized. And then its authorization was pushed ahead of when doctors wanted it to be released because of high infection rates affecting the military's readiness.

Pfizer vaccine (mRNA)was authorized for use on people 12 years old and older on December 11, 2020. That would be under President Trump's administration which took credit for the historic achievement on numerous occasions.

President Trump created a pathway that reduced testing and red tape to encourage/allow/permit companies to get vaccines to the market faster and with less testing than would normally have been done. I think that was a good thing - I believe the scientist when they say the potential dangers of the vaccine are outweighed by the known good it does.


How many know that there have been no studies about the long-term effects of mRNA vaccines on the immune systems?


And what difference does it make? Please explain exactly how the scientist came to the conclusion to authorize the use of the vaccine. Explain how the potential long-term effects were completely ignored. And please provide some links or evidence to support your claim/assertion/idea that there is no scientific methodology that was used to determine if the mRNA vaccine might be dangerous - in the long or short time frames. Please, enlighten us.


And how many just blindly accepted the vaccine?


How many just blindly follow their primary care physician's advice every day? How many BLINDLY follow their Oncologists' treatment plan? How many blindly accept that flying is safe? How many blindly drink Coke or bottled water?

I know a lot about Computers, I know almost nothing about the development of virus vaccines. I can't know everything about everything. So, I listen to my PCP and do what she says. I listen to my Cardiovascular surgeon and do what he says. Do I ask him if he is certified for a particular sticking technique I prefer? Uh, nope. I do not question his knowledge or expertise. I do my job and he counts on his computer working. He does his job and my aorta artery keeps working. Both take what the other does on "BLIND FAITH".

[Altavia]

.

What percentage of people who were vaccinated have any idea how the mRNA delivery system works?

There are non-mRNA vaccines like J&J if that is a concern.

The whole point of this thread is a much more infectious varient is spreading an area of the country with low vaccination rates. This varient is a different animal. and now has hospitalizations exceeding the level for that area back in Feb.

The nurses and doctors are not falsifying what they are experiencing and hospitalizations.

More than 3 billion people vaccinated globally. Real world experience shows benefits far outweigh the risk.

It's not just about you. Vaccinations significantly reduce the risk for those around you from getting sick, hospitalized or dying.

[thelegges]

I disagree, not all people out in sticks has ability to get shots or access to web, and may only antenna TV. You don’t know their circumstances so you’re political view are irrelevant and IMO kind of mean with natural selection statement. These people have families.

So true, some areas in the southern states, have pockets of people that live off the land have nothing to do with the outside world. Travel down a wrong back road in Kentucky, and you might be shot at. Our oldest used to work for the state evaluating children, as he said, there are places you just don’t travel to in some parts of the south, unless you have a death wish. It’s their land, you are trespassing, phones, newspapers, tv is not a part of their life.

In today’s world it’s hard to believe there are such remote areas, but most would never know it’s a part of everyday life for some

[roscoguy]

When Fauci was asked about his own staff, he guessed that 50-60% were vaccinated. Pretty much in line with the general US population.
That was his off the cuff estimate back in May. Any idea if it's still the same? Also, there was plenty of propaganda generated at that time to the effect that the un-vaccinated were refusing the vaccine - something Fauci never said or even implied.
What percentage of people who were vaccinated have any idea how the mRNA delivery system works? How many know that although scientists have experimented with mRNA for 10 years, it was never approved as a delivery system for human vaccines? How many know that there have been no studies about the long term effects of mRNA vaccines on the immune systems? And how many just blindly accepted the vaccine?This has mostly been responded to, but one other thing: how many know what the long term effects of the virus will be? With some of the survivors, it's already been a terrible & life-altering experience. Are you willing to blindly accept the opinions of your favorite tv/internet talking heads that there's nothing to fear?

You're wasting your time and your energy. I'm w you 100% but just give it up, they ain't reasonable. I know they think it's we that aren't reasonable but I'm at the point I really don't care what they think.
O, the irony. It's much more reasonable to accept the suspicions & theories of the few skeptical entertainers than the multitudes of scientists & doctors the world over. :loco:

[Swoop]

Can you tell me the reasons Fauci's staff is not vaccinated? Can you tell me what percentage of those have you imply they don't think it is safe, since you included it in your answer, which focuses on the "uncertainty" of outcome using the vaccination? What percentage of Fauci's staff that are not vaccinated have worked as heads of virus research projects and vaccine creating projects for over 40 years?

The US population includes 23% under 18 years old. Would you like to show any evidence that 50% of 18 years old and younger are uncertain of the outcome of the vaccine? Because if we start breaking out all the demographics your 50% that fall into the category of not wanting to take the vaccine because of a lack of testing sort of fall apart.



Do you know how electricity works? Do you understand how Rocket engines work?

Do you know how cruise control works on your car? Do you use it? Do you know and understand the testing to have it certified?

My point is, your point is meaningless. Almost everything in medicine is "unknown" to the majority of Americans. Yet, most Americans "blindly" follow their doctor's advice and take the medicine their doctors prescribe. Guess what that doesn't always turn out well, but on the other hand, it does turn out well more often than it does not.



I may be misreading your comment here, but the wording seems to me to imply it was not safe - so it wasn't released. I hope so, that is how science works - you don't release things until they are safe. Kind of like why things are in the last place you look for them because most people stop looking when they find them. Unlike most people, scientists continue to study vaccines - even after they find them.

The Influenza vaccine was researched (experimented with) for 15 years before being authorized. And then its authorization was pushed ahead of when doctors wanted it to be released because of high infection rates affecting the military's readiness.

Pfizer vaccine (mRNA)was authorized for use on people 12 years old and older on December 11, 2020. That would be under President Trump's administration which took credit for the historic achievement on numerous occasions.

President Trump created a pathway that reduced testing and red tape to encourage/allow/permit companies to get vaccines to the market faster and with less testing than would normally have been done. I think that was a good thing - I believe the scientist when they say the potential dangers of the vaccine are outweighed by the known good it does.



And what difference does it make? Please explain exactly how the scientist came to the conclusion to authorize the use of the vaccine. Explain how the potential long-term effects were completely ignored. And please provide some links or evidence to support your claim/assertion/idea that there is no scientific methodology that was used to determine if the mRNA vaccine might be dangerous - in the long or short time frames. Please, enlighten us.



How many just blindly follow their primary care physician's advice every day? How many BLINDLY follow their Oncologists' treatment plan? How many blindly accept that flying is safe? How many blindly drink Coke or bottled water?

I know a lot about Computers, I know almost nothing about the development of virus vaccines. I can't know everything about everything. So, I listen to my PCP and do what she says. I listen to my Cardiovascular surgeon and do what he says. Do I ask him if he is certified for a particular sticking technique I prefer? Uh, nope. I do not question his knowledge or expertise. I do my job and he counts on his computer working. He does his job and my aorta artery keeps working. Both take what the other does on "BLIND FAITH".

The reason I pointed out the percentage of Fauci’s staff was your assertion that knowledgeable people in the field of immunology believed in the vaccine, apparently not all…

I never stated that the reason for 50% of the general population not getting vaccinated was due to the lack of testing. But I do find it interesting that half of Fauci’s staff chose not to be vaccinated.

I do not put rocket engines or cruise controls into my body. And I guarantee that cruise control was tested for more than a few months before being approved and released. If my doctor suggested a med, I would absolutely research it before agreeing to take it.

The mRNA early trials of other vaccines were unsuccessful, therefore there were no long term studies and there still haven’t been. Unless you count the current ongoing study of the Covid vaccines. Unfortunately it’s too early to determine the results.

I think it’s great that people in the high risk group were given access to a vaccine so quickly. For them the risk was well worth it. If I was in the high risk category, I would have been vaccinated too.

Here is a quote from Penn Medicine regarding mRNA: “The current evidence base on messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines is made up entirely of small early-stage trials, nearly all of which examined only short-term outcomes. They lack sufficient power for testing the statistical significance of most results, and for assessing the risk of serious but uncommon adverse events.”

When I was diagnosed with cancer 16 years ago, I visited 3 of the highest rated cancer hospitals in the US. I performed countless hours of research and based on that, made the decision that was best for me. I did NOT blindly accept the first doctor’s opinion.

Did you just just pull any cardiologist’s name, or did you look into him before you went to see him? Maybe that’s the difference, I what to know about the things that will effect my body, and you are willing to accept them without question or knowledge…

[Becca9800]

O, the irony. It's much more reasonable to accept the suspicions & theories of the few skeptical entertainers than the multitudes of scientists & doctors the world over. :loco:

"O, the irony" is clear to me. Because simply doing what you're told is best for you, wo questioning, is the very definition of "reasonable", correct? The mere fact that you believe it's a "few skeptical entertainers" and call it "theories and suspicions" tells me you are unaware of the breadth and depth of skepticism surrounding the C19 vaccine. I'm going to leave this article here for you, you'll be surprised by the who & why. The reasonable person wants to know both sides of an issue, will you read the article?

The Top Four Reasons Why Some People, Doctors; Scientists Refuse To Take The COVID Vaccine – Rights and Freedoms (https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/05/30/the-top-four-reasons-why-some-people-doctors-scientists-refuse-to-take-the-covid-vaccine/)

[GrumpyOldMan]

The reason I pointed out the percentage of Fauci’s staff was your assertion that knowledgeable people in the field of immunology believed in the vaccine, apparently not all…


So, should we take this to mean that you recommend never taking any medication unless 100% of all people in the field agree it is safe and effective and there are no unknown risks? In other words, you don't take any medications?


Here is a quote from Penn Medicine regarding mRNA: “The current evidence base on messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines is made up entirely of small early-stage trials, nearly all of which examined only short-term outcomes. They lack sufficient power for testing the statistical significance of most results, and for assessing the risk of serious but uncommon adverse events.”


Interesting, and here is a quote from Penn Medicine (Assuming you meant University of Pennsylvania) last year by the two experts that actually did the research there:

"“We understand there are concerns the vaccine was developed quickly, but Kati (Karikó) and I developed our enabling technology fifteen years ago, and we and other scientists have been working on how to use it to develop mRNA ever since,” Weissman said. “This isn’t brand new—scientists have been studying vaccines using this mRNA platform for at least six or seven years. Based on all of the data available to date, these mRNA vaccines have shown a good safety profile. Clinicians always consider risk-benefit scenarios whenever we recommend a new treatment or a new vaccine to patients and to the public, and with this vaccine, there’s no comparison—the benefit is huge and there’s really little to no risk.”

So much for your previous 10-year comment.


When I was diagnosed with cancer 16 years ago, I visited 3 of the highest-rated cancer hospitals in the US. I performed countless hours of research and based on that, made the decision that was best for me. I did NOT blindly accept the first doctor’s opinion.


Cool, so the30% of Americans that do not have health insurance and can not afford to go traveling around the world interviewing potential doctors - what should they do?

You did exactly what I would hope everyoine could do.


Did you just pull any cardiologist’s name, or did you look into him before you went to see him?


I was referred to the team by my PCP. I also researched and found that I was lucky enough to have one of the highest rated teams in the world. But, even if they were only 2nd or 3rd, I probably would have gone with them, since they had a working relationship with my PCP which helps with follow up care.


Maybe that’s the difference, I what to know about the things that will affect my body, and you are willing to accept them without question or knowledge…


Again a backhanded insult, saying you think anyone that disagrees with you doesn't question things and accepts things "BLINDLY". So, YOU are the one true source and anyone that disagrees with you is WRONG. You understand that is what your statement just said.

I think the difference is you have found reports that agree with your conclusions and you look for comments and articles that support your position. That is what about 99% (made up stat meaning a large majority) of people do. We, everyone, filter what we read and hear and what agrees with us is acceptable and what disagrees is not.

[GrumpyOldMan]

"O, the irony" is clear to me. Because simply doing what you're told is best for you, wo questioning, is the very definition of "reasonable", correct? The mere fact that you believe it's a "few skeptical entertainers" and call it "theories and suspicions" tells me you are unaware of the breadth and depth of skepticism surrounding the C19 vaccine. I'm going to leave this article here for you, you'll be surprised by the who & why. The reasonable person wants to know both sides of an issue, will you read the article?

The Top Four Reasons Why Some People, Doctors; Scientists Refuse To Take The COVID Vaccine – Rights and Freedoms (https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/05/30/the-top-four-reasons-why-some-people-doctors-scientists-refuse-to-take-the-covid-vaccine/)

So, should I interpret your comment to say that ANYONE that disagrees with you simply accepted what they were told and did no research.

I can't speak for anyone else but I disagree with you and I subscribed to 6 leading medical and research journals (Nature, NEJM, Harvard, PennNews, et al) when the virus was first reported in the US. I subscribe to podcasts by leading Doctors in the field and the hospitals they work at and to podcasts by educators in the same field.

I have been posting here and Nextdoor since then and have simply been reporting what the experts around the world have said. And yet, I have been characterized as a fear-monger for explaining the concept of exponential growth, a liar for saying COVID was worse than the FLU, and now you are saying I am lazy and simply do what I am told by strangers rather than questioning and researching.

I disagree with you. I disagree with your conclusions, I will frequently disagree with your sources (when you provide them). But, I will never insult you, I will never call you lazy, will never call you sheep. I respect you, I can do that and still disagree with you.

EDIT: I read your link, it is written by a 20ish "reporter" with no background in medicine. he starts by saying:

"Reflect On:

Why does the mainstream fail to have appropriate conversations about concerns that are being raised about the COVID vaccine? Why do they remain unacknowledged and unaddressed?"

Which is demonstrably false. I am sure you can find some "media" that are ignoring the debate, but I could provide dozens (hundreds) of links to articles discussing and debating it - but the last time I did that I got banned.

Moving on down the article, the first "expert" he references is an associate editor that works at a prestigious journal. Not a scientist in this field.

The second was also NOT a specialist in this field. In fact, i found ONE specialist quoted.

The article is an opinion piece. He even states in his Bio that he got into writing for this outlet because he "disagrees" with other outlets. Not what I would call a credible source, more of a biased or prejudiced source.

[Topspinmo]

Please don't take it personally, Topspinmo. It's not like my home state of Ohio is taking any prizes.

Mayo Clinic has a site that tracks percentages of vaccinations by state and age group. Older people have the highest percentages of being vaccinated -- and although political bent possibly applies somewhat to those who are younger, I don't think it does for most older people.

I certainly understand that there are those who won't get the vaccine due to health issues that make risk possibly outweigh benefit if they take the shot. In fact, I know one such person. She is being very careful. She has to be.

But what I am so tired of is hearing the litany of excuses that have been programmed into the anti-vaxxers -- who have been convinced that they are oh so much smarter than the rest of us, so in the know.

Then we have the completely over-the-edge types who think we will be magnetized if we get the vaccine. In spite of the mock-ability factor of those paranoid theories, it is actually, truly awful to realize that there are those who really believe that kind of thing.

I have now reached the point where I think of the denial types as being freeloaders -- plain and simple -- riding on the responsibility taken by the rest of us -- freeloading.

Boomer


There a lot more people in Missouri that lives far away from any free clinics or hospitals. Especially south central Missouri.

[Swoop]

So, should we take this to mean that you recommend never taking any medication unless 100% of all people in the field agree it is safe and effective and there are no unknown risks? In other words, you don't take any medications?



Interesting, and here is a quote from Penn Medicine (Assuming you meant University of Pennsylvania) last year by the two experts that actually did the research there:

"“We understand there are concerns the vaccine was developed quickly, but Kati (Karikó) and I developed our enabling technology fifteen years ago, and we and other scientists have been working on how to use it to develop mRNA ever since,” Weissman said. “This isn’t brand new—scientists have been studying vaccines using this mRNA platform for at least six or seven years. Based on all of the data available to date, these mRNA vaccines have shown a good safety profile. Clinicians always consider risk-benefit scenarios whenever we recommend a new treatment or a new vaccine to patients and to the public, and with this vaccine, there’s no comparison—the benefit is huge and there’s really little to no risk.”

So much for your previous 10-year comment.



Cool, so the30% of Americans that do not have health insurance and can not afford to go traveling around the world interviewing potential doctors - what should they do?

You did exactly what I would hope everyoine could do.



I was referred to the team by my PCP. I also researched and found that I was lucky enough to have one of the highest rated teams in the world. But, even if they were only 2nd or 3rd, I probably would have gone with them, since they had a working relationship with my PCP which helps with follow up care.



Again a backhanded insult, saying you think anyone that disagrees with you doesn't question things and accepts things "BLINDLY". So, YOU are the one true source and anyone that disagrees with you is WRONG. You understand that is what your statement just said.

I think the difference is you have found reports that agree with your conclusions and you look for comments and articles that support your position. That is what about 99% (made up stat meaning a large majority) of people do. We, everyone, filter what we read and hear and what agrees with us is acceptable and what disagrees is not.
You decided to get the vaccine. You’ve mentioned that you were seeing a cardiologist. Maybe you are in the at-risk category. If so, I applaud your decision to get vaccinated. I am not in the at-risk category. The statistical chances of me dying from Covid are 4/100’s of 1%. I like my odds. Especially since no one knows if there will be long term side effects from the vaccines. I respect your decision to get vaccinated, you did what you thought was right for you. After researching, I came to the conclusion that I prefer my chances with what I know, rather than taking the leap of faith that the vaccines won’t have long term issues. For the 50% of the population that has been vaccinated, I certainly hope that there are no issues.

[Topspinmo]

Sorry, it all happened in the same time period...ie., refusing to take part in a congressional investigation into the attack on our capital, followed by the welcome to Brittany to come and be heard,

If she is considered to be more important than finding out exactly who was responsible for the worst insurrection and attack in history (not to mention the 30 million dollars in damage), I just thought maybe she was the “go to” for virus answers.

And, as you imply daily, you are much smarter and well read than I, so you will excuse me.....I still work with factual things....you know logic.

I rest my case, you do know Congress has see several investigations going on and not just what you here on propaganda channels.

[Bucco]

I rest my case, you do know Congress has see several investigations going on and not just what you here on propaganda channels.

I was simply pointing out, for one example, the preposterous stance of not wanting an investigation into a violent, very costly attack on our nations capitol and an invite to Brittany Spears to “testify”

Trust me, I am vividly aware of the congressional investigations that have happened and are being scheduled (they were part of my job description) many years ago.

Unfortunetly, so many do not watch them or read about them until the subject is of personal interest. Being aware of these congressional panels and actually watching them is a great tool to learn about who is getting voted into office.

And for the record, I do not watch any channels to be informed. I read...lots of boring things like Congressional Record, but to be informed is the complete opposite of watching television.

[GrumpyOldMan]

You decided to get the vaccine. You’ve mentioned that you were seeing a cardiologist. Maybe you are in the at-risk category. If so, I applaud your decision to get vaccinated. I am not in the at-risk category. The statistical chances of me dying from Covid are 4/100’s of 1%. I like my odds. Especially since no one knows if there will be long term side effects from the vaccines. I respect your decision to get vaccinated, you did what you thought was right for you. After researching, I came to the conclusion that I prefer my chances with what I know, rather than taking the leap of faith that the vaccines won’t have long term issues. For the 50% of the population that has been vaccinated, I certainly hope that there are no issues.

Thank you for the civil reply, I appreciate it. Too often this type of exchange devolves into nonsense. And I appreciate you clearly articulate your position and decision. I respect that. I can respect your decision and disagree with it at the same time.

I AM in the at-risk group, but, I did leave the decision to get vaccinated to my PCP, after a long discussion about the decision and my particular case.

My decision to get vaccinated was also motivated by my concern that I did not want to be the cause of anyone else getting the virus and dying, even if I got it and survived. Which was part of the discussion with my PCP.

As (I think) Reagan said, "It takes a village". Individual actions matter - pollution, pandemics, voting, etc etc in many matters, what I do affects your life and what you do affects my life. The obvious example is the worker in a fast-food restaurant that has Hep C and doesn't wash his hands, spreading Hep C, which is another virus that can have no symptoms when it is contagious and spread. If the worker had simply washed his hand's people would not have died. The ODDs of people dying because he didn't wash his hands are very low, but not zero. But, a lot of people could live with "long haul" side effects. I didn't want to be "that person". So, I weighed the risks and felt the benefits outweighed the known risks.

I don't believe in guarantees. Sadly, I believe that almost anyone that guarantees anything is probably lying or misinformed. So, my opinion is we try to do what is generally accepted as the best thing for everyone and then deal with the consequences if it goes sideways.

[Swoop]

Thank you for the civil reply, I appreciate it. Too often this type of exchange devolves into nonsense. And I appreciate you clearly articulate your position and decision. I respect that. I can respect your decision and disagree with it at the same time.

I AM in the at-risk group, but, I did leave the decision to get vaccinated to my PCP, after a long discussion about the decision and my particular case.

My decision to get vaccinated was also motivated by my concern that I did not want to be the cause of anyone else getting the virus and dying, even if I got it and survived. Which was part of the discussion with my PCP.

As (I think) Reagan said, "It takes a village". Individual actions matter - pollution, pandemics, voting, etc etc in many matters, what I do affects your life and what you do affects my life. The obvious example is the worker in a fast-food restaurant that has Hep C and doesn't wash his hands, spreading Hep C, which is another virus that can have no symptoms when it is contagious and spread. If the worker had simply washed his hand's people would not have died. The ODDs of people dying because he didn't wash his hands are very low, but not zero. But, a lot of people could live with "long haul" side effects. I didn't want to be "that person". So, I weighed the risks and felt the benefits outweighed the known risks.

I don't believe in guarantees. Sadly, I believe that almost anyone that guarantees anything is probably lying or misinformed. So, my opinion is we try to do what is generally accepted as the best thing for everyone and then deal with the consequences if it goes sideways.
The politician who used the “It Takes a Village” quote was Hillary Clinton.
I wore my mask “for the good of others”, but I considered my own health when making my decision regarding the vaccine.
In your case, based on your health, it should have been a pretty easy decision. In fact I’m surprised that it took the “benefit of others” to sway your decision.

[GrumpyOldMan]

The politician who used the “It Takes a Village” quote was Hillary Clinton.
I wore my mask “for the good of others”, but I considered my own health when making my decision regarding the vaccine.
In your case, based on your health, it should have been a pretty easy decision. In fact I’m surprised that it took the “benefit of others” to sway your decision.

Thank you for the correction. And thank you for wearing a mask. I appreciate it.

And I didn't say it took "benefit others", I said, it was part of the consideration. Very few things are so simple to decide. I could have self-isolated. In fact, part of my consideration was if there were others that needed the vaccine more than me, my own PCP for instance is certainly more at risk than I would be, then I have self-isolated until more vaccinations were available. But, she felt it important for me to be moved to the top of the list because I had just had major abdominal surgery. So, I did what she said to do.

[Becca9800]

So, should I interpret your comment to say that ANYONE that disagrees with you simply accepted what they were told and did no research.
Your perceptions are your reality. If you choose to believe that’s what I meant… You get to own it though. The well-researched knows both sides.

and now you are saying I am lazy and simply do what I am told by strangers rather than questioning and researching.
Is that what I said to you? You read that huh? I'm certain I did not. I never used that word anywhere, nor was I even addressing you.

EDIT: I read your link, it is written by a 20ish "reporter" with no background in medicine.
This was clearly an article about why there is vaccine hesitancy. It is not a medical research paper. C’mon! You know the difference. So what if he's 20ish? Does that make him not credible in and of itself? I thought it was well researched, well written and hit the nail right on the head.

Which is demonstrably false
If you believe medical doctors and scientists speaking unfavorably about the vaccine aren't being silenced, you'd be very wrong. And because they are being silenced, how can their findings and opinions be adequately discussed by any media? So whatever debates you're hearing are incomplete or one-sided.

Moving on down the article, the first "expert" he references is an associate editor that works at a prestigious journal. Not a scientist in this field. The second was also NOT a specialist in this field. In fact, i found ONE specialist quoted.
The author's first source, a medical journal editor and publisher, was for a quote used re: politicization, corruption, and suppression of science. I’m not sure why you think he's not expert enough to quote.

Again, it was a piece on why there is vaccine hesitancy, not a medical research paper. The author cited his sources to demonstrate the reasons behind the hesitancy, which you reject solely because you don't find the sources expert enough. You don't address the info provided, instead you simply discount all of it.

The article is an opinion piece. He even states in his Bio that he got into writing for this outlet because he "disagrees" with other outlets. Not what I would call a credible source, more of a biased or prejudiced source.
It's meant as a look at the other side. So the author is not a credible source to write an article explaining why there is vaccine hesitancy? Ok then. This is why I try to avoid any discussion about the vaccine. No author, source, study or expert is ever acceptable. Have a good rest of your day.

[Swoop]

Thank you for the correction. And thank you for wearing a mask. I appreciate it.

And I didn't say it took "benefit others", I said, it was part of the consideration. Very few things are so simple to decide. I could have self-isolated. In fact, part of my consideration was if there were others that needed the vaccine more than me, my own PCP for instance is certainly more at risk than I would be, then I have self-isolated until more vaccinations were available. But, she felt it important for me to be moved to the top of the list because I had just had major abdominal surgery. So, I did what she said to do.

“My decision to get vaccinated was also motivated by my concern that I did not want to be the cause of anyone else getting the virus and dying, even if I got it and survived.”
That certainly sounds like a “to benefit others” reason. I was just surprised that your medical condition alone wasn’t enough for you to get vaccinated. Or, did you decide to get vaccinated as soon as it was available, for your health, and the “benefit of others” comment was meant as a shallow attempt to shame me for choosing not to get vaccinated….

[GrumpyOldMan]

“My decision to get vaccinated was also motivated by my concern that I did not want to be the cause of anyone else getting the virus and dying, even if I got it and survived.”
That certainly sounds like a “to benefit others” reason. I was just surprised that your medical condition alone wasn’t enough for you to get vaccinated. Or, did you decide to get vaccinated as soon as it was available, for your health, and the “benefit of others” comment was meant as a shallow attempt to shame me for choosing not to get vaccinated….

My PCP said they had enough vaccines to go around and she strongly advised me to get it early. So, yes, both my wife and I got ours very early on via the VA.

[roscoguy]

"O, the irony" is clear to me. Because simply doing what you're told is best for you, wo questioning, is the very definition of "reasonable", correct? The mere fact that you believe it's a "few skeptical entertainers" and call it "theories and suspicions" tells me you are unaware of the breadth and depth of skepticism surrounding the C19 vaccine. I'm going to leave this article here for you, you'll be surprised by the who & why. The reasonable person wants to know both sides of an issue, will you read the article?

The Top Four Reasons Why Some People, Doctors; Scientists Refuse To Take The COVID Vaccine – Rights and Freedoms (https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/05/30/the-top-four-reasons-why-some-people-doctors-scientists-refuse-to-take-the-covid-vaccine/)

And who said that I, or others who decided to trust the consensus of Doctors & scientists from all over the world, did so without questions? Okay, there are some skeptical professionals as well as the professional skeptics, but that is true of almost anything you can think of.

As far as the article goes, it's basically the same old stuff: railing against the so-called and much-vilified MSM; whining that those who disagree with his opinions would label them "conspiracy theories"; all the other paranoid suspicions of government & his "state-pharma alliance". And that's what the entire article comes down to, the author's opinions, even if there is some published support for them.

Point "1. A Lack of Trust In Government & Pharmaceutical Companies." There definitely is some of that! Some is even well-founded, if only historically speaking.

Point "2. The Virus Has A High Survival Rate." Maybe, at least for now. What about the next variant, or the 13th, made possible by natural mutation & unchecked spread amongst the unvaccinated? What about the 'long-haulers' who have sometimes severe & long-lasting side effects from infection? Survival rate alone does not tell the whole story of the human costs of this virus.

Point "3. Some People Don’t Know How Safe And Effective The Vaccine Is" Nope, we don't. But many people have decided to trust the vast majority of HCP's. As has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, nearly all of us end up trusting in authorities whose job it is to keep us safe & healthy.

Point "4. There May Be Protection From Infection" And maybe not. Your dice to roll, just bear in mind that you & other skeptics alike may well have a part in providing hosts to this and any other variants that arise.

So, I read a fair amount of your article; will you do the same? Try these, from the CDC.

Understanding mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html)
Use of mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine After Reports of Myocarditis Among Vaccine Recipients: Update from the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices — United States, June 2021 | MMWR (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7027e2.htm)
Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine Overview and Safety | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Moderna.html)

Note that some do contain concerns and/or warnings and yet the CDC still recommends that the majority of Americans get the vaccine. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

[jimjamuser]

Depending on your definition of "long term effects" no one knows the long term effects of anything.

Helmets don't protect football players perfectly, seatbelts don't protect drivers and passengers perfectly, polio vaccinations don't protect people perfectly. While so many are waiting for perfection and proof it is perfect, people are dying that don't have to die.

There is NO guarantee. All we have are lots of people working to learn how to do something and recommending that the vaccine is safer than not taking the vaccine.

As long as there is no law requiring vaccinations, then people can make up their own minds. Personally, I would like to see vaccinations REQUIRED by law.

But, that is not going to happen, so all these arguments more or less sound like an old couple just repeating the same old arguments they have been having for the past 40 years. Round and round the argument goes, and nothing new is ever said, and neither side is willing to actually listen to the other side.
I would be fine with required vaccinations. Just like seat belts and other reasonable requirements.

[Swoop]

I would be fine with required vaccinations. Just like seat belts and other reasonable requirements.

Based on that reasoning we should definitely outlaw smoking since it kills 480,000 per year. And since overweight people have more health issues, we should outlaw fast food restaurants and also outlaw all unhealthy foods from grocery stores. Those changes would save far more lives than the vaccine and greatly reduce the burden on the medical system…

[GrumpyOldMan]

Based on that reasoning we should definitely outlaw smoking since it kills 480,000 per year. And since overweight people have more health issues, we should outlaw fast food restaurants and also outlaw all unhealthy foods from grocery stores. Those changes would save far more lives than the vaccine and greatly reduce the burden on the medical system…

I agree while I expect you are being facetious, I agree, we should outlaw alcohol, smoking, fast food, and other activities that cost EVERYONE a lot of money. You and I are paying the highest healthcare costs in the world and at least part of that high cost is because of all the health issues those lifestyle choices cause - not contribute to, but actually cause. Of course, a lot of people would object to the government taking such an up close and personal interest in our lifestyle choices.

However, just because there is no way we can do EVERYTHING that should be done, that is no excuse to do nothing when we can. Also, a vaccine requirement, unlike all those other areas would NOT stop people from doing things that want to do and are already doing. And there are plenty of examples of mandatory vaccinations already that have had major positive benefits to society. So, your comparison falls a little short.

[Becca9800]

And who said that I, or others who decided to trust the consensus of Doctors & scientists from all over the world, did so without questions?
I was actually telling you, that I, meaning me, didn't just do as I was told, I researched.

So, I read a fair amount of your article; will you do the same? Try these, from the CDC.
Appreciate the links but I'm well aware of what the CDC says. I'm tuned in to both sides of the get/don't get argument. See Reason #1 for vaccine hesitancy.


Note that some do contain concerns and/or warnings and yet the CDC still recommends that the majority of Americans get the vaccine. Seems pretty reasonable to me.
It seems not at all reasonable for me. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

[JMintzer]

Based on that reasoning we should definitely outlaw smoking since it kills 480,000 per year. And since overweight people have more health issues, we should outlaw fast food restaurants and also outlaw all unhealthy foods from grocery stores. Those changes would save far more lives than the vaccine and greatly reduce the burden on the medical system…

Don't give him any ideas...

[Swoop]

I agree while I expect you are being facetious, I agree, we should outlaw alcohol, smoking, fast food, and other activities that cost EVERYONE a lot of money. You and I are paying the highest healthcare costs in the world and at least part of that high cost is because of all the health issues those lifestyle choices cause - not contribute to, but actually cause. Of course, a lot of people would object to the government taking such an up close and personal interest in our lifestyle choices.

However, just because there is no way we can do EVERYTHING that should be done, that is no excuse to do nothing when we can. Also, a vaccine requirement, unlike all those other areas would NOT stop people from doing things that want to do and are already doing. And there are plenty of examples of mandatory vaccinations already that have had major positive benefits to society. So, your comparison falls a little short.
If we strictly base it on the assumption that there won’t be long term side effects from mRNA vaccines that have had zero long term studies, I see your point. But since no one knows what the long term effects will be, taking the vaccine may very well ultimately stop people from “doing things they want to do”.
Actually a more logical approach to my tongue in cheek suggestion, would be to upcharge the health insurance rates for smokers & overweight individuals…

[GrumpyOldMan]

If we strictly base it on the assumption that there won’t be long term side effects from mRNA vaccines that have had zero long term studies, I see your point. But since no one knows what the long term effects will be, taking the vaccine may very well ultimately stop people from “doing things they want to do”.
Actually a more logical approach to my tongue in cheek suggestion, would be to upcharge the health insurance rates for smokers & overweight individuals…

That's a great idea too, except that would be up to the Insurance companies unless you are advocating government regulation/control of private companies.

But, still is only marginally connected to the COVID Vaccine. Since all of those are lifestyle choices and catching COVID is not.

Let me try an only slightly tongue-in-cheek idea on you. If in a few years we find that there are no significant long-term effects from the vaccine, but we do find that people that have not been vaccinated are responsible for spreading the virus resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people should they be legally held reslpoinsible?

[Swoop]

That's a great idea too, except that would be up to the Insurance companies unless you are advocating government regulation/control of private companies.

But, still is only marginally connected to the COVID Vaccine. Since all of those are lifestyle choices and catching COVID is not.

Let me try an only slightly tongue-in-cheek idea on you. If in a few years we find that there are no significant long-term effects from the vaccine, but we do find that people that have not been vaccinated are responsible for spreading the virus resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people should they be legally held reslpoinsible?

First, who could they spread it to, other than non vaccinated people?
Secondly if someone never received the vaccine and never had Covid, how could they possibly be “responsible” for spreading it?
And finally if it turns out that there are long term effects and for example those who received the vaccine were twice as likely to contract cancer, should the drug companies be held legally responsible?!? Oh, wait, they can’t! Our government has already issued them get out of jail free cards…

[Altavia]

First, who could they spread it to, other than non vaccinated people? …

Like children and people who can't be vacinated?

There are non mRNA vaccines...

[Swoop]

Like children and people who can't be vacinated?

There are non mRNA vaccines...

Over 9,000 children under 14 die in the US annually. Since the inception of the virus, a total of 297 children have died of COVID-19, out of almost 60,000,000 children. About 0.01% of the children diagnosed with COVID-19 have died. According to the CDC they were predominantly those with extenuating health issues.