Surf Side high-rise collapse results

[mvbird]

Wondering if the collapse of the Surf Side condominiums in Miami will impact sales of high-rise ocean view condos up and down the Florida coast. Will some condo dwellers will be frightened, want to move out or sell ? The occupants of the Surf Side buildings were presented with and didn't welcome high estimates to repair problems found at the buildings. As they are gradually all inspected, other buildings may need work too, thus driving up cost of ownership & rent of the units. If I lived on the 30th floor, even with a fabulous ocean view, the pictures viewed on the news might come to mind.

[justjim]

It could be a buying opportunity. Keep in mind the coastal areas from south to the north of Florida are a bit different with more issues in south Florida with the rising ocean waters due to so called climate change. This phenomenon is especially true in the Miami/Fort Lauderdale areas along the coastline. That said, I don’t mean to infer that there aren’t rising water issues along the southern gulf coast in places like Marco Island/Naples area. The Gulf Coast also has “red tide” issues that have impacted beaches too. Oh, did I forget Hurricanes affect the coasts of Florida? They have a huge impact on real estate prices. With oceans getting warmer more and larger hurricanes are projected. A home in The Villages is probably less risky. Fore!

[Papa_lecki]

It could be a buying opportunity. Keep in mind the coastal areas from south to the north of Florida are a bit different with more issues in south Florida with the rising ocean waters due to so called climate change. This phenomenon is especially true in the Miami/Fort Lauderdale areas along the coastline. That said, I don’t mean to infer that there aren’t rising water issues along the southern gulf coast in places like Marco Island/Naples area. The Gulf Coast also has “red tide” issues that have impacted beaches too. Oh, did I forget Hurricanes affect the coasts of Florida? They have a huge impact on real estate prices. With oceans getting warmer more and larger hurricanes are projected. A home in The Villages is probably less risky. Fore!

Good news is, if the oceans are rising, Villages will soon be ocean front.

[New Englander]

The Surf Side Condominium didn't just decide to collapse in the middle of the night. Slowly, over the years structural maintenance has been ignored. That building would not have collapsed if proper repairs were done.

[retiredguy123]

I don't think the high rise condo business will be affected significantly by one building collapse. A concrete high rise building is supposed to last more than 100 years with minimal or no maintenance to the structural part. There may be more frequent inspections of buildings, but, if costly repairs and/or maintenance is required, it will be because of a bad design, not something routine.

[TNGary]

Link to structural report prior to unfortunate collapse. The more significant findings are toward the end of the report. Not sure what the estimate $ repairs were, suspect those numbers are available,

https://www.townofsurfsidefl.gov/docs/default-source/default-document-library/town-clerk-documents/champlain-towers-south-public-records/8777-collins-ave---structural-field-survey-report.pdf?sfvrsn=882a1194_2

[Carla B]

The 5-floor condo building where we lived in South Florida started concrete renovation on the east side that faced the ocean the last year we lived there. When they broke up the concrete on our balcony, the rebar was rusted through in places. There is no doubt, salt water and sea air are hard on concrete, iron, air conditioners, etc.. Our building was 28 years old, not forty.

[Babubhat]

They will become more difficult and expensive to insure. You best check on the condo reserves because many of these are poorly funded. Best to buy new and avoid the special repair assessments coming

[Rwirish]

Buying opportunity for many.

[Cheapbas]

It was mentioned that in the Miami area in the 70s, there was a huge effort to launder money due to the influx of cash due to cocaine, money went into building construction, high rises went up and often shortcuts were taken.

[akerwin1909]

Wondering if the collapse of the Surf Side condominiums in Miami will impact sales of high-rise ocean view condos up and down the Florida coast. Will some condo dwellers will be frightened, want to move out or sell ? The occupants of the Surf Side buildings were presented with and didn't welcome high estimates to repair problems found at the buildings. As they are gradually all inspected, other buildings may need work too, thus driving up cost of ownership & rent of the units. If I lived on the 30th floor, even with a fabulous ocean view, the pictures viewed on the news might come to mind.
I believe prices will fall dramatically. I wouldn’t want to live in one and the vast majority of people will feel the same. If there’s a 1% chance of it collapsing would you ever buy one? Not me! I looked on line after the first few days and there were hundreds of new listings of condos. There you go!

[La lamy]

For me it'd be a frightening prospect to be in a high rise in that area now for many reasons. It may crumble, it may be very costly to repair and one may even be forced out of the unit while reconstruction happens. Yikes.

[butlerism]

Typical. Too many landowners ready to take your money and do little more.
It is wise to never live in a multistory high rise.
Better to have control over your real estate

[butlerism]

Second note.

Florida is a Coral peninsula.

Disturbing the ground ( hard pan or shall we say coral??) and then add torrential rains, hurricanes, flooding.
An equation for bad results in the making.

As for Champlin, the zoning board is complicit as well.
Maybe that area is not suitable for large structures, after all they are built on Coral sand, not bedrock.
duhh.

Manhattan is built on bedrock.
Some of those buildings have ten stories plus of basement levels just to reach bedrock.

Better yet.

The former World Trade Center.
Twin Towers.
That place was a city underground.
If you have ever taken the PATH train to NJ, fascinating yet creepy, you know what I mean!

[joelfmi]

I don't think the high rise condo business will be affected significantly by one building collapse. A concrete high rise building is supposed to last more than 100 years with minimal or no maintenance to the structural part. There may be more frequent inspections of buildings, but, if costly repairs and/or maintenance is required, it will be because of a bad design, not something routine. What will change is maintenance, HOA fees, will increase a great deal to cover repairs to these dated high rise building. These fees will be born by the condo owners they could be thousands of dollars out of their pockets.

[ChicagoNative]

This would not stop me from buying a high rise condo in coastal Florida if that’s where I wanted to live, but you can bet that I’d perform my due diligence before plunking down any cash. I’d want to see a current engineering and reserve study on the building. I’m sure all HOA boards in high rises are rethinking their spending priorities, particularly if they’ve got a lot of deferred maintenance.

We were snowbirds until last year. We were on the 15th floor of a high rise in Chicago with beautiful city and lake views before making Florida our permanent home. High rise living may not be for everyone, but that type of lifestyle is really convenient.

[camaguey48]

The Surf Side Condominium didn't just decide to collapse in the middle of the night. Slowly, over the years structural maintenance has been ignored. That building would not have collapsed if proper repairs were done.
Agreed. The 40 year inspection would have uncovered these problems. Our condo building in South Florida received the inspection in 2010 and repairs were made to comply with the present building codes. No evidence of structural problems. We paid the assessments and have experienced no issues. Our management company along with the condo board have done an outstanding job of maintaining the building. The assessments amounted to a lot of money but they were worth it. Just because construction shortcuts may have taken place does not mean every condo building will collapse. I did see photos of the surfside building and they were published in you tube. Why that occurred and ignored is unacceptable. Look it up.

[retiredguy123]

Maybe slightly off topic, but, in other areas, many houses have wood decks that sometimes collapse and result in about 6,000 serious injuries or deaths per year. When attending a party, I would always inspect the underside of a deck before walking on it. You don't have to be in a high rise building to die from a structural failure.

[mk1126]

Yep, what will assuredly go up will be HOA's, maintenance fees, special assessments etc.
Florida - 19,000,000 and counting~!

[Dot Rheinhardt]

We have a condo in the Keys. Can't build higher than 3 stories there. We are constantly checking for spalling and repairs made timely. It is due to salt water corroding the rebars. Across the canal on another island one 10-12 story condo had to be evacuated while repairs were made. Occupants were out 2-3 years. Otherwisw it probably would have collapsed just like Surfside.

[retiredguy123]

We have a condo in the Keys. Can't build higher than 3 stories there. We are constantly checking for spalling and repairs made timely. It is due to salt water corroding the rebars. Across the canal on another island one 10-12 story condo had to be evacuated while repairs were made. Occupants were out 2-3 years. Otherwisw it probably would have collapsed just like Surfside.
Sounds like a bad design. Structural engineers are smart enough to know that salt water corrodes steel. So, a good design will prevent the rebar from corroding.

[kathy1516]

We’re the residents made aware of these structural failings or was it hidden from them? Where were the structural inspectors? How could they have let this slide for so many years? Heads need to roll.

[retiredguy123]

We’re the residents made aware of these structural failings or was it hidden from them? Where were the structural inspectors? How could they have let this slide for so many years? Heads need to roll.
The building was inspected by a structural engineering company in October, 2018. Some defects were found, but there was no indication that the building was going to collapse. So, they are nowhere near determining what caused the catastrophic collapse that occurred.

[Ben Franklin]

Unfortunately, those in Tallahassee repealed an inspection law, and the Florida Legislature is reluctant to pass laws that slow down condominium construction and sales. And now, that inspections are most likely to be voted on, I imagine a lot of people might try to sell, but who would want to buy when, say, a $20 million assessment will likely be in the future of many older condos?

[jimjamuser]

I don't think the high rise condo business will be affected significantly by one building collapse. A concrete high rise building is supposed to last more than 100 years with minimal or no maintenance to the structural part. There may be more frequent inspections of buildings, but, if costly repairs and/or maintenance is required, it will be because of a bad design, not something routine.
At the Surf Side Condo, they found that rusted re-bar caused expansion, which cracked the concrete foundation. Strangely enough, I remember reading that China used bamboo instead of re-bar and made the sidewalls of their skyscrapers MUCH thicker than the US does. I had a hard time believing that about the bamboo. I have NEVER read anything to confirm about the bamboo, so that COULD be very wrong. I am just writing about it to see if anyone else has ever heard of this practice in China. And if so WHY would bamboo be an advantage - other than cheap?