Will Covid-19 vaccines cause long term side effects?

[coffeebean]

Wish I had a crystal ball but , alas, I do not. Having said that, this article is very encouraging to all those of us who have been vaccinated with a Covid-19 vaccine.......

How Do We Know the COVID-19 Vaccine Won’t Have Long-Term Side Effects? (https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects)

[GrumpyOldMan]

Almost guaranteed it will have SOME long term side affects. And for some (few) those long term side affects will be serious.

Nothing is perfect. PERIOD. The issue is are the side affects worse than letting the virus run rampant throughout the country/world and mutating at will, into something with even worse long term affects on humanity.

Just my Not So Humble Opinion.

[Boffin]

Yes.

[golfing eagles]

Will Covid-19 vaccines cause long term side effects?

Que sera sera.

But it is pretty much guaranteed to be better than an unchecked worldwide pandemic

[ThirdOfFive]

Wish I had a crystal ball but , alas, I do not. Having said that, this article is very encouraging to all those of us who have been vaccinated with a Covid-19 vaccine.......

How Do We Know the COVID-19 Vaccine Won’t Have Long-Term Side Effects? (https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects)
We don't. But "long term" at my age vs. that of my grandchildren means two entirely different things.

I see things a bit more pragmatically than most: I have gotten the vaccine because A) I've had the flu several times and didn't like it much; and B) I'm not going to let the lack of an arbitrary piece of paper keep me from seeing my family--and who among us knows just WHAT cockamamie regulations just might be hiding around the next corner? I sure don't.

Other peoples' reasons are their own, for or against. And I respect their right to have and exercise them.

[Byte1]

Perhaps the IDEA that long term effects might be serious is a reason that giving the unnecessary vaccine to children should be held off a bit until we learn more about said possibility. Just my opinion. After all, the young are hardly even noticing the illness in most cases, so why take the chance that we might harm the next generation needlessly? My children and grandchildren have had covid (most of them). None are opting to get the vaccination right now. Like I have said before, I will not try to encourage or discourage them in any direction.
On the other hand, I have not seen any absolute evidence that the vaccine can/will cause long term side effects. Supposedly, this type of vaccine(?) has been studied for decades. IF there is any future side effects related to this vaccine, I am pretty sure that we (seniors) won't be around long enough to find out. But, do we want to subject our youngest generation to possible side effects if there are no exigent circumstances to warrant vaccinating them? If we are protected, why should we worry about the un-vaxxed infecting us? It's a near impossible chance that they will infect us if we are inoculated.

[Tim C.]

I guess we won't know until there is a long-term...

[coffeebean]

Almost guaranteed it will have SOME long term side affects. And for some (few) those long term side affects will be serious.

Nothing is perfect. PERIOD. The issue is are the side affects worse than letting the virus run rampant throughout the country/world and mutating at well, into something with even worse long term affects on humanity.

Just my Not So Humble Opinion.

Why do you feel side effects are "almost guaranteed" long term. History has proven that serious side effects from vaccines occur up to six weeks after inoculation. Why do you think our vaccines will prove to be a problem in the future?

Millions of people are long past that 6 week mark. Have there been any problems directly from the vaccines? I know the J&J vaccine has had issues but those issues have surfaced very soon after inoculation. Treatment for those issues has been addressed and the vaccine was paused only for a brief time. The mRNA vaccines seem to be flawless with no know obvious issues at this point. The new technology of these mRNA vaccines is a 21st century break through in vaccine development.

[drducat]

Wish I had a crystal ball but , alas, I do not. Having said that, this article is very encouraging to all those of us who have been vaccinated with a Covid-19 vaccine.......

How Do We Know the COVID-19 Vaccine Won’t Have Long-Term Side Effects? (https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects)

List of possible...All the way back to Oct 2020...the list looks wildly familiar to actual side affects happening....

imgbox - fast, simple image host (https://imgbox.com/NX51Bder)

[MrFlorida]

At my age, I don't have a long term..... so, I guess I'll never know.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Perhaps the IDEA that long term effects might be serious is a reason that giving the unnecessary vaccine to children should be held off a bit until we learn more about said possibility. Just my opinion. After all, the young are hardly even noticing the illness in most cases, so why take the chance that we might harm the next generation needlessly? My children and grandchildren have had covid (most of them). None are opting to get the vaccination right now. Like I have said before, I will not try to encourage or discourage them in any direction.
On the other hand, I have not seen any absolute evidence that the vaccine can/will cause long term side effects. Supposedly, this type of vaccine(?) has been studied for decades. IF there is any future side effects related to this vaccine, I am pretty sure that we (seniors) won't be around long enough to find out. But, do we want to subject our youngest generation to possible side effects if there are no exigent circumstances to warrant vaccinating them? If we are protected, why should we worry about the un-vaxxed infecting us? It's a near impossible chance that they will infect us if we are inoculated.

First, I agree with most of what you said, and certainly the intent (as I see it) of what you said. If you had left out the word "unnecessary" I would have agreed with more.

Necessary is a controversial term.

I guess I see at least part of the reason for vaccinating children is that the delta variant is infecting children at a higher rate. While less deadly it spreads faster. And a spreading variant is likely to mutate again.

So, vaccination helps reduce mutations by reducing the spread. That is worth something.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Why do you feel side effects are "almost guaranteed" long term. History has proven that serious side effects from vaccines occur up to six weeks after inoculation. Why do you think our vaccines will prove to be a problem in the future?

Millions of people are long past that 6 week mark. Have there been any problems directly from the vaccines? I know the J&J vaccine has had issues but those issues have surfaced very soon after inoculation. Treatment for those issues has been addressed and the vaccine was paused only for a brief time. The mRNA vaccines seem to be flawless with no know obvious issues at this point. The new technology of these mRNA vaccines is a 21st century break through in vaccine development.

Well, you are not right to begin with, there are some long term side affects from most vaccinations. Some we don't even learn about for years sometimes decades.

And you added the word "serious" to my reply. The thread asked if there was likely to be long term side affects, the answer is yes. Will they be serious, I personally doubt it. The rDNA vaccines are build on a very strong foundation of research and experience.

[Velvet]

Well the ‘long term’ side effects for me are so far; I’m alive, I live a more normalish life, I feel just a bit more happy than usual (grateful to be in this wonderful country instead of other places in the world), and physically just fine. We’ll see what happens next month.

[Garywt]

My 8 years of Chemo has side effects as well but I am still here. Those that have issues down the road, Morgan and Morgan will be around to help.

[Swoop]

My 8 years of Chemo has side effects as well but I am still here. Those that have issues down the road, Morgan and Morgan will be around to help.

Nope, the manufacturers of the Covid vaccines have been given a get-out-of-jail-free card by the US government. They are immune from lawsuits if their vaccines have long term health effects.

[John41]

Wish I had a crystal ball but , alas, I do not. Having said that, this article is very encouraging to all those of us who have been vaccinated with a Covid-19 vaccine.......

How Do We Know the COVID-19 Vaccine Won’t Have Long-Term Side Effects? (https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects)

Long term side effects are not likely as mRNA has been studied since the 1990s. Last years Nobel winner, Jennifer Doudna, was studying it for years before Covid.
The pictures of vaccinated people with horns growing out of their head is just fear mongering.

[netbum]

My 8 years of Chemo has side effects as well but I am still here. Those that have issues down the road, Morgan and Morgan will be around to help.

The pharmaceutical companies have been relieved of any responsibility for damages.

[Billy1]

Short term effects without vaccination, terrible. Long term effects, without vaccination terrible.

[Girlcopper]

Wish I had a crystal ball but , alas, I do not. Having said that, this article is very encouraging to all those of us who have been vaccinated with a Covid-19 vaccine.......

How Do We Know the COVID-19 Vaccine Won’t Have Long-Term Side Effects? (https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects)
Its called wait and see. Hundreds of articles have been out and this one is nothing new. Why keep rehashing it? Bored?

[Swoop]

Short term effects without vaccination, terrible. Long term effects, without vaccination terrible.
You’re right - if you’re obese and have diabetes, heart disease, or lung disease, or hypertension.
But if you don’t, statistics say you’re wrong…

[Bay Kid]

We will learn more as we see changes in our mind, body and soul.

[drstevens]

Go to The COVID Blog - Official blog of COVID Legal USA. Vaccines are the leading cause of coincidences. Stay Vigilant. (http://www.thecovidblog.com) for side effects information.

[Ksfirefighter]

If you call death a long term problem then yes they will!

[Windguy]

It’s a matter of weighing the possibility of unknown bad side effects from the vaccine versus the certainty of known bad side effects from the disease.

[Byte1]

It’s a matter of weighing the possibility of unknown bad side effects from the vaccine versus the certainty of known bad side effects from the disease.

What "side effects" from the disease? I know at least a dozen folks that had Covid and have NO side effects from it. Yes, some folks have died WITH Covid. I am not suggesting that you are wrong, because the vaccine has probably saved millions of lives. However, the only side effects related to Covid is IF you become infected. Consider this, you are voluntarily getting the inoculation so you are running toward any side effects, whereas a person that is prudent about safety and does all the right things related to avoiding the virus is attempting to NOT become infected. So, that person will not have any side effects from the virus IF they are not infected. If they ARE infected, the chances of death or lasting side effects are very low.
I presumed the possibility of side effects when I chose to get the shots. I am the one that did all the shopping in the past year and I had no wish to infect my spouse. I willingly and knowingly took the chance that I might suffer side effects, in hopes of protecting her. If I was solo and had no one relying on me, I might have chosen a different path. I do not get the FLU shot and have never had the FLU. My choice.
Rather than second guessing and worrying over something that you have no control over, after getting the shots, why not just live your life with the idea of what will be, will be?

[Boomer]

The virus is hitting young, healthy adults now — hard. They are being hospitalized. Some are dying. They are young and thought they were invincible.

Why can’t these 30, 40, 50 year-olds figure out that if they are vaccinated, they are protecting children — even — and especially — if they do not want their own kids vaccinated?

The more adults vaccinated, the more we protect children and let them get back to normal childhood life, including education alongside other kids — like in the “old days.”

Why are so many young adults unwilling to analyze risk vs. benefit and take the vaccination to insulate their children — who might not be vaccinated? Why can’t they see the compromise in adults taking the vaccine to protect children?

Children do not have a voice. Adults do.

The loss of a child leaves a longterm effect that never goes away — and the loss of a parent for a child leaves a longterm effect, too.

Boomer

[jbrown132]

Almost guaranteed it will have SOME long term side affects. And for some (few) those long term side affects will be serious.

Nothing is perfect. PERIOD. The issue is are the side affects worse than letting the virus run rampant throughout the country/world and mutating at will, into something with even worse long term affects on humanity.

Just my Not So Humble Opinion.

I don’t buy into this. Did the polio vaccine have long term affects, did the measles vaccine have long term affects etc. etc. the answer is no. The good news is even if it does most of us in TV who have gotten this vaccine are in our 60’s 70’s and 80’s so long term is not that long.

[Spalumbos62]

List of possible...All the way back to Oct 2020...the list looks wildly familiar to actual side affects happening....

imgbox - fast, simple image host (https://imgbox.com/NX51Bder)

Wow....that was not what I expected and childish.
I guess the monitors are sleeping....this is not that kind of site

[GrumpyOldMan]

Why do you feel side effects are "almost guaranteed" long term. History has proven that serious side effects from vaccines occur up to six weeks after inoculation. Why do you think our vaccines will prove to be a problem in the future?


The "almost guaranteed" meant, "I don't know, but it could happen", since we rushed the drug to market.

I am NOT an anti-vax'er. I have confidence in the safety of the vaccines.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I don’t buy into this. Did the polio vaccine have long term affects, did the measles vaccine have long term affects etc. etc. the answer is no. The good news is even if it does most of us in TV who have gotten this vaccine are in our 60’s 70’s and 80’s so long term is not that long.

I agree with you, I am not saying vaccinations are not safe.

I am saying we rushed it to market, and it is a new (meaning hasn't been widely used previously) technology. It has been in process for a long time, it is based on sound science, and all that. I agree.

My point was when considering the possibility of serious mutations of COVID and the economy having to take another trip around the surge tree, I think the risk is extremely far less than the reward.

I expect if we see another surge as bad or worse than the last one, we will have a major worldwide recession (a recession is overdue from what I have read, but I dunno.). A lot of people will die from that if that happens.

So, now everyone can jump in and call me a fear-monger.

[JMintzer]

I see 20+ patients/day, 99% of whom are vaccinated...

I've yet to have a single one complain of anything besides a sore arm for a day or two...

[Andyb]

Wish I had a crystal ball but , alas, I do not. Having said that, this article is very encouraging to all those of us who have been vaccinated with a Covid-19 vaccine.......

How Do We Know the COVID-19 Vaccine Won’t Have Long-Term Side Effects? (https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects)

Interesting that the article mentioned “history suggests that there will be no long effects” when there is no history of this type of “vaccine”.

[Swoop]

I don’t buy into this. Did the polio vaccine have long term affects, did the measles vaccine have long term affects etc. etc. the answer is no. The good news is even if it does most of us in TV who have gotten this vaccine are in our 60’s 70’s and 80’s so long term is not that long.
Completely different delivery system. Apples and sledgehammers different. The only similarity is the word vaccine…

[yabbadu]

Will you live long enough to find out????

[rlcooper70]

The stem of the virus is mutating .... will likely require another vaccine .... 35% of vaccinated people can now get the virus ... Gottlieb says it is 1000 more likely to spread than the original. Two minute exposure is enough. Oh well

[Swoop]

I see 20+ patients/day, 99% of whom are vaccinated...

I've yet to have a single one complain of anything besides a sore arm for a day or two...

But hardly “long term”. How may class action suits have be brought against manufacturers of products or drugs years after they were released because of the adverse long term effects? nRMA vaccines haven’t been around long enough to have that data compiled.

[dougawhite]

Vaccine has had the following side effects so far: saved countless lives, allowed thousands of business owners to re-employ their workers, allowed millions of children to play and learn again. Not bad...

[GrumpyOldMan]

The stem of the virus is mutating .... will likely require another vaccine .... 35% of vaccinated people can now get the virus ... Gottlieb says it is 1000 more likely to spread than the original. Two minute exposure is enough. Oh well

All true, but to put it in context, it has a lower death rate - which may be because more children are getting it or it may be less lethal, or it maybe a side effect of so many having the vaccine - the vaccine could reduce the deathless (viral load).

The issue is if we don't reach herd immunity it will continue mutating, and one of those mutations could be more deadly and spread faster.

[Wyseguy]

Even something that was approved in 46 countries (Thalidomide) can cause unexpected consequences. It is very possible this will as well. Probability now is that government and social media czars will censor any knowledge of the consequences.
Each individual must weight the pros and cons and decide for themselves.

[Wyseguy]

Perhaps the IDEA that long term effects might be serious is a reason that giving the unnecessary vaccine to children should be held off a bit until we learn more about said possibility. Just my opinion. After all, the young are hardly even noticing the illness in most cases, so why take the chance that we might harm the next generation needlessly? My children and grandchildren have had covid (most of them). None are opting to get the vaccination right now. Like I have said before, I will not try to encourage or discourage them in any direction.
On the other hand, I have not seen any absolute evidence that the vaccine can/will cause long term side effects. Supposedly, this type of vaccine(?) has been studied for decades. IF there is any future side effects related to this vaccine, I am pretty sure that we (seniors) won't be around long enough to find out. But, do we want to subject our youngest generation to possible side effects if there are no exigent circumstances to warrant vaccinating them? If we are protected, why should we worry about the un-vaxxed infecting us? It's a near impossible chance that they will infect us if we are inoculated.

There are studies showing adverse effects to young men and women. Who knows what we are not being allowed to hear.

[golfing eagles]

I don’t buy into this. Did the polio vaccine have long term affects, did the measles vaccine have long term affects etc. etc. the answer is no. The good news is even if it does most of us in TV who have gotten this vaccine are in our 60’s 70’s and 80’s so long term is not that long.

Here's my take on this so far. Even though I'm in a better position to evaluate the evidence and draw conclusions, I'm totally confused, mainly due to conflicting data/reports.

On one hand, we have been told locally by the Orange County health director that 0 of the last 2000 "new cases" were vaccinated. And nationally, the CDC basically states the same thing by citing a 0.007% breakthrough rate. On the other hand there are the reports of the Yankees, the Olympic athletes, and some pro golfers that have been "cases" at a high percentage even after vaccination. Who is telling the truth????

The next question is: What constitutes a case? Is it merely a positive antigen test without symptoms? If so, is there something about the test that is affected by the vaccination, which after all is mRNA that codes for the spike protein, which is what the test looks for. Measles, mumps, rubella, polio have all been mentioned as vaccines that almost everyone has had. But did we test someone for measles EVERY OTHER DAY after the vaccine???? Of course not, so why are we testing like crazy after this vaccine. If we had tested for those other vaccines, what would the results have been?

While it is cost prohibitive for the general population, why don't we test Olympians and pro athletes for the ANTIBODY? Do it once and forget about it since they are immune if they have the antibody.

[Byte1]

There are about 4,000 species of bees in the U.S. Most bees are harmless, even if they sting you. Should everyone be forced to carry an epipen on them at all times? How many folks receive bee stings per year? How many of those actually die from the bee sting? And yet, almost every year or two we hear on the news of a new species of "killer bee" and all panic starts again.
Before subscribing to the mass hysteria that we continue to be inundated with by the media and politicians, think things out a bit before going off half-cocked.
We cannot know at this time whether or not there will be long term side effects. Most of us received the shots for a reason, many for self preservation and some of us to protect loved ones. It did not matter at the time whether or not there might be side effects. I do not fault those that refused based on their FEAR that there might be side effects. That's why I will not encourage or discourage getting this vaccination. IF the gov starts telling us that the new Delta is dangerous and that we need another shot, I probably will not get it. I see an upcoming election around the corner and I will suspect an alternative motive. Right or wrong in my reasoning, it will be MY choice, not someone else's. I will not accept the premise that we will be wearing masks for the rest of our lives. That is totally unacceptable. If that comes to fruition, then I will demand an investigation as to who might be responsible for this massive use of WMD. There is NO doubt that this pandemic originated in a lab. Accident or not, someone is responsible.
Long term side effects won't matter to most of us. But, how are you going to feel if you push your grandchildren to obtain the vaccination and they later find out that it causes mass sterilization? Just a hypothetical.
Hysteria can cause folks to make hasty and rash choices/decisions with negative results.
Just my opinion.

[DAVES]

Wish I had a crystal ball but , alas, I do not. Having said that, this article is very encouraging to all those of us who have been vaccinated with a Covid-19 vaccine.......

How Do We Know the COVID-19 Vaccine Won’t Have Long-Term Side Effects? (https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects)

We continue to ask for, demand answers to unanswerable questions. Today it is very unlikely that aspirin could be brought to market. Cancer, is not usually caused by one thing it is multiple assaults.

A covid 19 shot, if allows you to live longer will result in the side effects of getting older.

Nothing is perfect, everything has risks. I've yet to see a study on how many people died in a car crash on the way to get a covid vaccine.

Cholesterol is raised by worry. My wife worries. We eat the same diet. My cholesterol is low. Hers is high.

[golfing eagles]

We continue to ask for, demand answers to unanswerable questions. Today it is very unlikely that aspirin could be brought to market. Cancer, is not usually caused by one thing it is multiple assaults.

A covid 19 shot, if allows you to live longer will result in the side effects of getting older.

Nothing is perfect, everything has risks. I've yet to see a study on how many people died in a car crash on the way to get a covid vaccine.

Cholesterol is raised by worry. My wife worries. We eat the same diet. My cholesterol is low. Hers is high.

Agree 98%. However, I would suggest the difference in serum cholesterol is genetic----your hydroxymethylglutrylCoAreductase is less productive than hers.

[John41]

Completely different delivery system. Apples and sledgehammers different. The only similarity is the word vaccine…

You are confusing the Covid vaccines with CRISPR although both use mRNA. The Covid vaccines stimulate an immune response to develop antibodies. This has been done since Edward Jenner developed a smallpox vaccine years ago. CRISPR is a new technology that defeats a virus by cutting up its DNA.

[jimjamuser]

Wish I had a crystal ball but , alas, I do not. Having said that, this article is very encouraging to all those of us who have been vaccinated with a Covid-19 vaccine.......

How Do We Know the COVID-19 Vaccine Won’t Have Long-Term Side Effects? (https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects)
There are WAY more long-term issues to be FEARED from being unvaccinated than being vaccinated. You have recorded long-haul effects of the VIRUS. You have possible death! You have large hospital bills from long stays. The unvaccinated are allowing more and more deadly variants to mutate and take over. The unvaccinated are putting the US and world ECONOMY at risk. The unvaccinated have already destabilized US society by creating division and chaos! More and more vaccine-hesitant people are deciding to GET the vaccine. More private businesses will soon be mandating vaccines for their employees and customers. But, will that be soon enough - or did the VIRUS have time to gain the upper hand worldwide? Is the score now VIRUS - 3 points versus HUMANS - 1 point?

[jimjamuser]

First, I agree with most of what you said, and certainly the intent (as I see it) of what you said. If you had left out the word "unnecessary" I would have agreed with more.

Necessary is a controversial term.

I guess I see at least part of the reason for vaccinating children is that the delta variant is infecting children at a higher rate. While less deadly it spreads faster. And a spreading variant is likely to mutate again.

So, vaccination helps reduce mutations by reducing the spread. That is worth something.
I do NOT believe that Delta is LESS deadly. The recent US-wide statistics show a tripling of hospitalizations and a DOUBLING of DEATHS. Check it out. I have heard that more than once on RESPECTED TV sources. And Delta is certainly more DEADLY to young people. Check Dr. Vin Gupta.

[jimjamuser]

Its called wait and see. Hundreds of articles have been out and this one is nothing new. Why keep rehashing it? Bored?
The Delta variant IS new and newsworthy. Florida has 25% of the US new cases and they are because of Delta. That is NEW. People in TV Land want to stay current on ALL possible NEW public health information. This forum IS the proper place for IMPORTANT news. Travel is important to TV Landers and, for example, US citizens can travel to Canada in about a month IF they can show proof of vaccination. This could change if CV conditions worsen in the US. So, it is all changing rapidly and we NEED to stay informed. This is one of the most important and dynamic times in modern history - and more public forum discussion is NEEDED, not less!

[GrumpyOldMan]

I do NOT believe that Delta is LESS deadly. The recent US-wide statistics show a tripling of hospitalizations and a DOUBLING of DEATHS. Check it out. I have heard that more than once on RESPECTED TV sources. And Delta is certainly more DEADLY to young people. Check Dr. Vin Gupta.

If three times as many are being hospitalized and only twice as many are dying then it is less deadly.

But, that is NOT to say it is not deadly. Also, there is a case to be made that when no one was vaccinated more died than since there are so many vacinated.

[drducat]

I do NOT believe that Delta is LESS deadly. The recent US-wide statistics show a tripling of hospitalizations and a DOUBLING of DEATHS. Check it out. I have heard that more than once on RESPECTED TV sources. And Delta is certainly more DEADLY to young people. Check Dr. Vin Gupta.

249 deaths per day from Delta in the US...todays data.

Covid in the U.S.: Latest Map and Case Count - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html)

[MrFlorida]

Everybody always assumes the worst, what if the side effects are good? Like maybe resistance to other diseases like cancer ?

[jimjamuser]

What "side effects" from the disease? I know at least a dozen folks that had Covid and have NO side effects from it. Yes, some folks have died WITH Covid. I am not suggesting that you are wrong, because the vaccine has probably saved millions of lives. However, the only side effects related to Covid is IF you become infected. Consider this, you are voluntarily getting the inoculation so you are running toward any side effects, whereas a person that is prudent about safety and does all the right things related to avoiding the virus is attempting to NOT become infected. So, that person will not have any side effects from the virus IF they are not infected. If they ARE infected, the chances of death or lasting side effects are very low.
I presumed the possibility of side effects when I chose to get the shots. I am the one that did all the shopping in the past year and I had no wish to infect my spouse. I willingly and knowingly took the chance that I might suffer side effects, in hopes of protecting her. If I was solo and had no one relying on me, I might have chosen a different path. I do not get the FLU shot and have never had the FLU. My choice.
Rather than second guessing and worrying over something that you have no control over, after getting the shots, why not just live your life with the idea of what will be, will be?
I could NAME 10 side effects from CV. I will give 2 for right now. If hospitalized - you have a large bill. Some people will NOT be able to pay that bill. That will make everyone's insurance costs go up. 2) For every person with a case of the Delta variant, they have infected 6 to 7 people on average. Before Delta, it was about 3.

[dougjb]

Really the only long term side effect I have heard about related to COVID is this: If you don't get vaccinated, you may contract the virus and die from COVID. That is a pretty long term side effect.

Go get vaccinated if you haven't done so already! You are risking your life and those around you. Show some community spirit!

[Jimmy Lee]

Look at the information sheet for ANY medication and you'll see that for SOME PEOPLE it can cause SERIOUS side effects. The COVID-19 vaccines are no exception. The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) maintained by the CDC shows 10,991 deaths and 30,781 hospitalizations associated with taking the COVID vaccines through July 9. Since the system is voluntary and there are serious legal consequences for misreporting this may be significant under-reporting of side effects. Google "open VAERS" to get to a website which has VAERS summary data for all vaccines, then click on "COVID Vaccine Data". The VAERS system is also used for ALL vaccines and I think Americans receive something like 500 million vaccinations a year. Yet since the COVID vaccine jabs started the number of VAERS reports has sky-rocketed. And remember the COVID vaccines have not gone through the same exhaustive years-long testing that other vaccines went through to get FDA approval. And the COVID vaccine are not FDA approved. They only have Emergency Use Authorization.

COVID-19 has an infection fatality rate that varies tremendously with age. I've seen a meta-analysis showing the infection fatality rate is over 1,000 times higher for 80+ year-olds then for those 19 years old or younger. Add in co-morbidities such as obesity, emphysema or pulmonary edema which many old-timers have and you see that COVID-19 can be deadly for us Villagers.

For Villagers taking the vaccine involves trading the risk of side effects for a significant reward (perhaps life itself). And if there are long-term side-effects we might not be around a long time to experience them. But, for a healthy young college student, especially a girl who may want to have children someday taking the vaccine involves trading the risk of side effects (sometimes fatal or life-altering) for almost no reward. If a young healthy person gets COIVD-19 they might not even know they have it or simply suffer a few sniffles and if they do get COVID-19 they will be rewarded with anti-bodies protecting them against future coronavirus infections.

For old-timers taking the COVID vaccine is a no-brainer. Forcing young children to take it is child abuse.

[jimjamuser]

The virus is hitting young, healthy adults now — hard. They are being hospitalized. Some are dying. They are young and thought they were invincible.

Why can’t these 30, 40, 50 year-olds figure out that if they are vaccinated, they are protecting children — even — and especially — if they do not want their own kids vaccinated?

The more adults vaccinated, the more we protect children and let them get back to normal childhood life, including education alongside other kids — like in the “old days.”

Why are so many young adults unwilling to analyze risk vs. benefit and take the vaccination to insulate their children — who might not be vaccinated? Why can’t they see the compromise in adults taking the vaccine to protect children?

Children do not have a voice. Adults do.

The loss of a child leaves a longterm effect that never goes away — and the loss of a parent for a child leaves a longterm effect, too.

Boomer
That is correct to included children's education and socialization in the discussion of long-term effects - because ideally, the US should have been able to vaccinate, mask and socially distance itself from Covid by the beginning of this new school year. We did NOT succeed well! So, the long-term effects on US society could be devastating. The next generation of leaders and workers could be less motivated and creative. There will likely be NEW health care problems and NEW vaccines needed in the future.

[jimjamuser]

Here's my take on this so far. Even though I'm in a better position to evaluate the evidence and draw conclusions, I'm totally confused, mainly due to conflicting data/reports.

On one hand, we have been told locally by the Orange County health director that 0 of the last 2000 "new cases" were vaccinated. And nationally, the CDC basically states the same thing by citing a 0.007% breakthrough rate. On the other hand there are the reports of the Yankees, the Olympic athletes, and some pro golfers that have been "cases" at a high percentage even after vaccination. Who is telling the truth????

The next question is: What constitutes a case? Is it merely a positive antigen test without symptoms? If so, is there something about the test that is affected by the vaccination, which after all is mRNA that codes for the spike protein, which is what the test looks for. Measles, mumps, rubella, polio have all been mentioned as vaccines that almost everyone has had. But did we test someone for measles EVERY OTHER DAY after the vaccine???? Of course not, so why are we testing like crazy after this vaccine. If we had tested for those other vaccines, what would the results have been?

While it is cost prohibitive for the general population, why don't we test Olympians and pro athletes for the ANTIBODY? Do it once and forget about it since they are immune if they have the antibody.
The way I understand it is.......the Delta variant has greater potential to breakthrough in a Vaccinate person. That person then suffers only mild symptoms or is asymptomatic. They then carry around a SMALL amount of CV. The amount is too small to infect other vaccinated people. The Olympics must have sophisticated testing that detects these SMALL amounts - Then out of an abundance of caution and to satisfy high Japanese concern - they quarantine those athletes.

What I am curious about is if these small amounts of CV carried by the asymptomatic vaccinated people are enough to infect unvaccinated people? I have not heard an answer to that question.

[jimjamuser]

We continue to ask for, demand answers to unanswerable questions. Today it is very unlikely that aspirin could be brought to market. Cancer, is not usually caused by one thing it is multiple assaults.

A covid 19 shot, if allows you to live longer will result in the side effects of getting older.

Nothing is perfect, everything has risks. I've yet to see a study on how many people died in a car crash on the way to get a covid vaccine.

Cholesterol is raised by worry. My wife worries. We eat the same diet. My cholesterol is low. Hers is high.
It could also be different genetics.

[jimjamuser]

If three times as many are being hospitalized and only twice as many are dying then it is less deadly.

But, that is NOT to say it is not deadly. Also, there is a case to be made that when no one was vaccinated more died than since there are so many vacinated.
What I was trying to say is that the comparisons are between deaths in the most recent weeks, where the Delta variant became dominant, and PRIOR weeks. Also, hospitalizations compared weeks to weeks. I did NOT mean to compare ratios of deaths to hospitalizations. That ratio has been slowly decreasing in the past due to better hospital techniques and experiences. Sorry for the lack of clarity!

[jimjamuser]

Everybody always assumes the worst, what if the side effects are good? Like maybe resistance to other diseases like cancer ?
That is a GREAT point! I did not think of that. That shows the value of a wide-ranging discussion in a forum for a life and death topic. TVLanders want knowledge!

[JMintzer]

But hardly “long term”. How may class action suits have be brought against manufacturers of products or drugs years after they were released because of the adverse long term effects? nRMA vaccines haven’t been around long enough to have that data compiled.

Then this entire discussion is nothing but conjecture and speculation...

[JMintzer]

There are WAY more long-term issues to be FEARED from being unvaccinated than being vaccinated. You have recorded long-haul effects of the VIRUS. You have possible death! You have large hospital bills from long stays. The unvaccinated are allowing more and more deadly variants to mutate and take over. The unvaccinated are putting the US and world ECONOMY at risk. The unvaccinated have already destabilized US society by creating division and chaos! More and more vaccine-hesitant people are deciding to GET the vaccine. More private businesses will soon be mandating vaccines for their employees and customers. But, will that be soon enough - or did the VIRUS have time to gain the upper hand worldwide? Is the score now VIRUS - 3 points versus HUMANS - 1 point?

You have "long haul" effects from a virus that has only been around for 20 months?

If you say so...

[JMintzer]

I do NOT believe that Delta is LESS deadly. The recent US-wide statistics show a tripling of hospitalizations and a DOUBLING of DEATHS. Check it out. I have heard that more than once on RESPECTED TV sources. And Delta is certainly more DEADLY to young people. Check Dr. Vin Gupta.

"Respected TV sources"... :ohdear:

https://media1.giphy.com/media/lEVZJzy4w15qE/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[JMintzer]

Everybody always assumes the worst, what if the side effects are good? Like maybe resistance to other diseases like cancer ?

My 5G reception is much better...

But I don't know if that's because I had Covid 18 months ago, or because I've also been vaccinated...

[JMintzer]

I could NAME 10 side effects from CV. I will give 2 for right now. If hospitalized - you have a large bill. Some people will NOT be able to pay that bill. That will make everyone's insurance costs go up. 2) For every person with a case of the Delta variant, they have infected 6 to 7 people on average. Before Delta, it was about 3.

You keep throwing out RANDOM statistics...

Ever CONSIDER providing a SOURCE for any of THEM?

[JMintzer]

That is a GREAT point! I did not think of that. That shows the value of a wide-ranging discussion in a forum for a life and death topic. TVLanders want knowledge!

Oh, God... Now we'll have a deluge of posts opining about all of the POSSIBLE good SIDE effects...

[Byte1]

Interesting how the OP started with the possible long term side effects of the vaccine, and everyone wants to talk about the effects of the virus itself.
Of course, the vaccine has saved lives. That's a no-brainer. This is not a debate on whether or not the vaccine worked. It is about possible long term side effects.
My only concern was/is what the long term effects might be to children. Children have weathered this pandemic pretty well, over all. My suggestion has been that since they mostly seem to be handling the virus well, why subject them to something that may or may not be necessary. Is it really expedient that they should be vaccinated right this instant? My question is, can this wait until we know more about how this vaccine works with the other vaccines they have bombarded upon them at their early age. What might not have a long term effect on us "old" folks, might cause some long term side effects to them. Just wondering and speculating. I value my grandkids very much and hate to see a hasty decision made that might not be necessary. Knowing that these children have all kinds of inoculations before entering the school system, do we really know if this "new" serum will play nicely with the stuff being pumped into them already? Is there really a danger to the kids if they DON'T get the vaccination right now?

[Swoop]

Then this entire discussion is nothing but conjecture and speculation...

I couldn’t agree more…

[nhlinda]

99.4 per cent of people who contract Covid have a mild case. Only 0.6 per cent get seriously ill. Most of the people who get a serious case have some other contributing factor. Not all, but most. Even with the vaccine, some people get Covid. Big Pharma is trying to convince us that we will get less sick if we have the vaccine, but the chances of getting seriously ill are miniscule as it is. So, don't listen to Chicken Little and do the research.

Just my 2 cents.

COVID Live Update: 192,619,754 Cases and 4,138,445 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

[GrumpyOldMan]

You have "long haul" effects from a virus that has only been around for 20 months?

If you say so...

You're better than that.

I am sure you are aware that long-haul effects are those that have or will cause permanent changes or damage. From the moment you get it you are destined to no cure.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Children have weathered this pandemic pretty well, over all.
Except the dead ones, and the ones with permanent lung/heart damage, and permanently compromised immune systems. They didn't weather the pandemic so great.

My suggestion has been that since they mostly seem to be handling the virus well, why subject them to something that may or may not be necessary. Is it really expedient that they should be vaccinated right this instant?

Yeah let's wait to see if they get sick and die in the next year from the current new strain, and future new strains. If they don't get sick and die, then we can uh - not vaccinate them since clearly they've weathered the pandemic. If they get sick and die, then uh - I guess we probably should've vaccinated them. Ooops.

I'll compare your reasoning to drowning women to see if they're witches. If they float, they're witches and you can execute them. If they're not witches, they'll drown. Woops.

[Swoop]

You're better than that.

I am sure you are aware that long-haul effects are those that have or will cause permanent changes or damage. From the moment you get it you are destined to no cure.

“The term “long haulers” may be misleading due to its association with long-term, life-altering symptoms. Researchers are unclear just how long these symptoms can last. At least 2 percent of patients in the study had symptoms lasting more than 12 weeks. More studies are needed to determine the longevity.”

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

“The term “long haulers” may be misleading due to its association with long-term, life-altering symptoms. Researchers are unclear just how long these symptoms can last. At least 2 percent of patients in the study had symptoms lasting more than 12 weeks. More studies are needed to determine the longevity.”

Permanent lung damage is permanent. Permanent heart damage is permanent.

[JMintzer]

You're better than that.

I am sure you are aware that long-haul effects are those that have or will cause permanent changes or damage. From the moment you get it you are destined to no cure.

Such as?

[Love2Swim]

Well, you are not right to begin with, there are some long term side affects from most vaccinations. Some we don't even learn about for years sometimes decades.

And you added the word "serious" to my reply. The thread asked if there was likely to be long term side affects, the answer is yes. Will they be serious, I personally doubt it. The rDNA vaccines are build on a very strong foundation of research and experience.

Your opinion might hold true for drugs, which can build up in the body and remain for years, but vaccines are a different story. Vaccines are designed to deliver a payload then are quickly eliminated from the body.

[JMintzer]

Permanent lung damage is permanent. Permanent heart damage is permanent.

Much of the "permanent lung damage" was due to patients being put on respirators...

Remember Cuomo demanding more respirators and having them sit, unused?

Doctors quickly realized that most patients didn't need them and that they were causing more harm...

[JMintzer]

Permanent lung damage is permanent. Permanent heart damage is permanent.

Any statistics/numbers on these?

[drducat]

Permanent lung damage is permanent. Permanent heart damage is permanent.

Why not just take one of the many 100% effective therapeutics ?

Israeli lab: Some existing drugs could stop COVID at almost 100% - The Jerusalem Post (https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-lab-some-existing-drugs-could-stop-covid-at-almost-100-percent-674426)

[Kenswing]

One short term side effect is that it causes the same people to post the same thing over and over and over again.. :1rotfl:

[butlerism]

If I had a Crystal Ball.... I would walk funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GrumpyOldMan]

One short term side effect is that it causes the same people to post the same thing over and over and over again.. :1rotfl:

:bigbow:

[coffeebean]

It’s a matter of weighing the possibility of unknown bad side effects from the vaccine versus the certainty of known bad side effects from the disease.
My thoughts exactly.

[coffeebean]

The virus is hitting young, healthy adults now — hard. They are being hospitalized. Some are dying. They are young and thought they were invincible.

Why can’t these 30, 40, 50 year-olds figure out that if they are vaccinated, they are protecting children — even — and especially — if they do not want their own kids vaccinated?

The more adults vaccinated, the more we protect children and let them get back to normal childhood life, including education alongside other kids — like in the “old days.”

Why are so many young adults unwilling to analyze risk vs. benefit and take the vaccination to insulate their children — who might not be vaccinated? Why can’t they see the compromise in adults taking the vaccine to protect children?

Children do not have a voice. Adults do.

The loss of a child leaves a longterm effect that never goes away — and the loss of a parent for a child leaves a longterm effect, too.

Boomer

This needs to be said again. Thank you Boomer.

Considering the Delta variant is 1000 (ONE THOUSAND) times more transmissible than the original Covid-19 virus, chances are really good that an un-vaccinated person will contract the virus. In fact, I saw one resident physicians on MSM state very confidently that anyone not vaccinated or has not been infected with Covid, WILL contract the Delta variant eventually.

It's a crap shoot. All un-vaccinated folks have to ask themselves, "Will I be a lucky one if I get this virus?"

[tuccillo]

No, that is not what was reported. What was reported is that it is 225% more transmissable (I have not looked into the exact assumptions that went into that number) than the original strain and one study from China showed that infected people have a 1000 times higher average viral load in their respiratory system. That does not mean it is 1000 times more transmissable.

Delta Variant Is On The Rise. Here's How To Stay Safe And Protect Others : Shots - Health News : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/07/17/1017075240/delta-variant-is-spreading-fast-and-new-cases-are-rising-is-time-to-mask-up-agai)

This needs to be said again. Thank you Boomer.

Considering the Delta variant is 1000 (ONE THOUSAND) times more transmissible than the original Covid-19 virus, chances are really good that an un-vaccinated person will contract the virus. In fact, I saw one resident physicians on MSM stated very confidently that anyone not vaccinated or has not been infected with Covid, WILL contract the Delta variant eventually.

It's a crap shoot. All un-vaccinated folks have to ask themselves, "Will I be a lucky one if I get this virus?"

[PugMom]

Wow....that was not what I expected and childish.
I guess the monitors are sleeping....this is not that kind of site

look past the dirty pics & you'll see what the op meant for you to find, lol. (some sites will use anything to earn a click.) on the topic: i am concerned about this spike protein that the shot contains. NIH website compared it to the prion diseases currently known to man. it doesnt sound good. i am still not vaccinated & have no plans to do so. i did however need to take a covid test before being admitted to the hospital, & that came up negative. so yes, there are some like me that can go to so-called super-spreader events, hug, kiss or dance & still not be affected. imo, FEAR is the word.

[PugMom]

There are about 4,000 species of bees in the U.S. Most bees are harmless, even if they sting you. Should everyone be forced to carry an epipen on them at all times? How many folks receive bee stings per year? How many of those actually die from the bee sting? And yet, almost every year or two we hear on the news of a new species of "killer bee" and all panic starts again.
Before subscribing to the mass hysteria that we continue to be inundated with by the media and politicians, think things out a bit before going off half-cocked.
We cannot know at this time whether or not there will be long term side effects. Most of us received the shots for a reason, many for self preservation and some of us to protect loved ones. It did not matter at the time whether or not there might be side effects. I do not fault those that refused based on their FEAR that there might be side effects. That's why I will not encourage or discourage getting this vaccination. IF the gov starts telling us that the new Delta is dangerous and that we need another shot, I probably will not get it. I see an upcoming election around the corner and I will suspect an alternative motive. Right or wrong in my reasoning, it will be MY choice, not someone else's. I will not accept the premise that we will be wearing masks for the rest of our lives. That is totally unacceptable. If that comes to fruition, then I will demand an investigation as to who might be responsible for this massive use of WMD. There is NO doubt that this pandemic originated in a lab. Accident or not, someone is responsible.
Long term side effects won't matter to most of us. But, how are you going to feel if you push your grandchildren to obtain the vaccination and they later find out that it causes mass sterilization? Just a hypothetical.
Hysteria can cause folks to make hasty and rash choices/decisions with negative results.
Just my opinion.

:bigbow: thank you :mademyday:

[Bill14564]

99.4 per cent of people who contract Covid have a mild case. Only 0.6 per cent get seriously ill. Most of the people who get a serious case have some other contributing factor. Not all, but most. Even with the vaccine, some people get Covid. Big Pharma is trying to convince us that we will get less sick if we have the vaccine, but the chances of getting seriously ill are miniscule as it is. So, don't listen to Chicken Little and do the research.

Just my 2 cents.

COVID Live Update: 192,619,754 Cases and 4,138,445 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

I'm confused. You assert that "Only 0.6 per cent get seriously ill." You post a link to support your assertion. The title of the link provides numbers for cases and deaths. If you plug those numbers into a calculator you get death rate of 2.08%

Does the 0.6% that get seriously ill NOT include those that died first?! Is death not considered a serious illness??

Is it Big Pharma that is trying to convince us of something or is it whatever website you are parroting?

You write, "... and do the research." Did you?

[GrumpyOldMan]

There are about 4,000 species of bees in the U.S. Most bees are harmless, even if they sting you. Should everyone be forced to carry an epipen on them at all times? How many folks receive bee stings per year? How many of those actually die from the bee sting? And yet, almost every year or two we hear on the news of a new species of "killer bee" and all panic starts again.

Just my opinion.

Wow, just wow.

If you get stung by a bee, you may or may not die, but I can guarantee you 100% that if you get stung by a bee it will NOT kill me or my family. Are these two situations in any way different? I guess not - WOW!

[jimjamuser]

Permanent lung damage is permanent. Permanent heart damage is permanent.
Brain damage has been found in young, asymptomatic children from CV.

[worahm]

My 8 years of Chemo has side effects as well but I am still here. Those that have issues down the road, Morgan and Morgan will be around to help.
Maybe not. My son came down with polio symptoms after taking the mandatory polio vaccine on a sugar cube many years ago.

There were days he could not get out of bed. Apparently, the weakened virus he received was not as weak as it was suppose to be. He is 60 years old and still experiences those symptoms.

We were informed he had no legal recourse.

[davem4616]

Wish I had a crystal ball but , alas, I do not. Having said that, this article is very encouraging to all those of us who have been vaccinated with a Covid-19 vaccine.......

How Do We Know the COVID-19 Vaccine Won’t Have Long-Term Side Effects? (https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects)


I could care less about reading someone's beliefs about the LONG TERM side effects to covid-19 (they could be the same people that said coffee was bad for you, then that butter was bad for you, then that a little red wine was good for you...they're all guessing)...

I'm more concerned about the present side effects of what this thing has done to our lives

I want my life back...I want the movie theatres to open, I want to feel comfortable going into an airport among strangers and sitting on a plane for hours breathing in the same unfiltered air, I want to feel comfortable going to another country, I hate being forced to wear a mask to see my doctors...I've actually started telling them to take the mask off so that I can hear what they're saying

just when we thought we'd start doing some serious travel again, and invite family and friends down, the darn thing is rebounding....it's like an English Breakfast, it keeps coming back on us.....we're at the point that we don't trust anything that we hear about covid-19, the politicians have turned this into a political football, you can't trust any of the news stations, as they're all biased

So, so glad that we've been traveling for decades, feel sorry for those that have waited until they retired and are now caught between a rock and a hard spot

[golfing eagles]

look past the dirty pics & you'll see what the op meant for you to find, lol. (some sites will use anything to earn a click.) on the topic: i am concerned about this spike protein that the shot contains. NIH website compared it to the prion diseases currently known to man. it doesnt sound good. i am still not vaccinated & have no plans to do so. i did however need to take a covid test before being admitted to the hospital, & that came up negative. so yes, there are some like me that can go to so-called super-spreader events, hug, kiss or dance & still not be affected. imo, FEAR is the word.

Well, don't be "concerned about this spike protein that the shot contains.", since it does not contain the spike protein. It is a mRNA vaccine that CODES for production of the spike protein that our immune systems recognize as foreign and raise antibodies against.

It also has nothing whatsoever to do with prion disease, so you're not getting Creutzfeldt-Jacob or Kuru from the vaccine. If you are very, very fat you might get BSE:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[coffeebean]

Interesting that the article mentioned “history suggests that there will be no long effects” when there is no history of this type of “vaccine”.

This technology had its beginnings 30 years ago and all started with a Hungarian scientist.

The story of mRNA: From a loose idea to a tool that may help curb Covid (https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/)

The technology has been used to develop vaccines for other viruses including Zika virus and also for use in treating cancer............

Moderna’s Zika Virus Vaccine Data Supports COVID-19 Vaccine Approach | BioSpace (https://www.biospace.com/article/moderna-s-zika-virus-vaccine-data-supports-covid-19-vaccine-approach/)

I've said this before, this technology is not a new kid on the block. Once scientists around the world were given the Covid virus sequence from China, then the technology was put to good use. We have several vaccines for Covid and the mRNA vaccines seem to be the vaccines with the least amount of issues. So far so good with these mRNA vaccines.

[coffeebean]

Completely different delivery system. Apples and sledgehammers different. The only similarity is the word vaccine…

Agree......the technologies are completely different. The mRNA vaccines have, so far, not been prone to many adverse side effects that the traditional vaccines have suffered from. mRNA technology is borne of modern technology and so far has been performing better than they ever expected. The scientists have been down right giddy over the performance of these mRNA vaccines.

[JMintzer]

One short term side effect is that it causes the same people to post the same thing over and over and over again.. :1rotfl:

I have a feeling that will also become a "long term" side effect...

[coffeebean]

The stem of the virus is mutating .... will likely require another vaccine .... 35% of vaccinated people can now get the virus ... Gottlieb says it is 1000 more likely to spread than the original. Two minute exposure is enough. Oh well

I KNEW I had seen one of our tried and true physicians claim this Delta variant is 1000 (ONE THOUSAND) times more transmissible than the original Covid-19 virus. Yes, it was Dr. Scott Gotlieb.

[JMintzer]

This needs to be said again. Thank you Boomer.

Considering the Delta variant is 1000 (ONE THOUSAND) times more transmissible than the original Covid-19 virus, chances are really good that an un-vaccinated person will contract the virus. In fact, I saw one resident physicians on MSM stated very confidently that anyone not vaccinated or has not been infected with Covid, WILL contract the Delta variant eventually.

It's a crap shoot. All un-vaccinated folks have to ask themselves, "Will I be a lucky one if I get this virus?"

This is a prime example of not understanding what you're reading...

The study stated the=at the Delta Variant may cause the infected person to carry 1000 Xs "the viral load"...

NOT that it is 1000 Xs more transmissible...

[coffeebean]

But hardly “long term”. How may class action suits have be brought against manufacturers of products or drugs years after they were released because of the adverse long term effects? nRMA vaccines haven’t been around long enough to have that data compiled.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, we get it. Your words have not fallen on deaf ears. However, the risk of the disease far outweighs the risk of being vaccinated. That is the reason millions of people world wide have made the choice to be vaccinated. The choice is made not only for one's own safety but for the good of the community to stop this damn virus and its variants in its tracks.

[JMintzer]

Brain damage has been found in young, asymptomatic children from CV.

Any actual proof of this?

[coffeebean]

Even something that was approved in 46 countries (Thalidomide) can cause unexpected consequences. It is very possible this will as well. Probability now is that government and social media czars will censor any knowledge of the consequences.
Each individual must weight the pros and cons and decide for themselves.

When J&J vaccine had issues with blood clots in younger women, was that censored from the public? No. In fact, a hold was placed on the roll out of the vaccine until it could be investigated. As we all know, the roll out of J&J vaccine was resumed once it was determined that the risk of the disease is worse than the minimal risk of the blood clots which are treatable.

[golfing eagles]

Any actual proof of this?

Probably not, but possible. However, I'm sure it is 100% true that "brain damage" has been found on TOTV:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[JMintzer]

Probably not, but possible. However, I'm sure it is 100% true that "brain damage" has been found on TOTV:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I thought that was a given...:icon_wink:

[coffeebean]

Agree 98%. However, I would suggest the difference in serum cholesterol is genetic----your hydroxymethylglutrylCoAreductase is less productive than hers.

OK GE.....Just stop with those big words just to make yourself seem smarter than the rest of us. LOL :)

[golfing eagles]

OK GE.....Just stop with those big words just to make yourself seem smarter than the rest of us. LOL :)

But, but, but..... I like my "big words" almost as much as I like my rolling laughing little men:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[coffeebean]

There are WAY more long-term issues to be FEARED from being unvaccinated than being vaccinated. You have recorded long-haul effects of the VIRUS. You have possible death! You have large hospital bills from long stays. The unvaccinated are allowing more and more deadly variants to mutate and take over. The unvaccinated are putting the US and world ECONOMY at risk. The unvaccinated have already destabilized US society by creating division and chaos! More and more vaccine-hesitant people are deciding to GET the vaccine. More private businesses will soon be mandating vaccines for their employees and customers. But, will that be soon enough - or did the VIRUS have time to gain the upper hand worldwide? Is the score now VIRUS - 3 points versus HUMANS - 1 point?

You get no argument from me about any of what you have stated in this post. I started this thread, NOT because I was bored as another poster had asked me, but to have this stimulating conversation that has prevailed.

[coffeebean]

If three times as many are being hospitalized and only twice as many are dying then it is less deadly.

But, that is NOT to say it is not deadly. Also, there is a case to be made that when no one was vaccinated more died than since there are so many vacinated.

I'm not so sure that is correct. The medical community knows more about this virus today than when this pandemic first hit us like a ton of bricks. There are treatments for the disease now that were not available when the first wave of people were dying of Covid-19.

[JMintzer]

I'm not so sure that is correct. The medical community knows more about this virus today than when this pandemic first hit us like a ton of bricks. There are treatments for the disease now that were not available when the first wave of people were dying of Covid-19.

Yeah, like Hydroxychloroquine...

Wait, what? Is that good or bad this week?

[coffeebean]

Interesting how the OP started with the possible long term side effects of the vaccine, and everyone wants to talk about the effects of the virus itself.
Of course, the vaccine has saved lives. That's a no-brainer. This is not a debate on whether or not the vaccine worked. It is about possible long term side effects.
My only concern was/is what the long term effects might be to children. Children have weathered this pandemic pretty well, over all. My suggestion has been that since they mostly seem to be handling the virus well, why subject them to something that may or may not be necessary. Is it really expedient that they should be vaccinated right this instant? My question is, can this wait until we know more about how this vaccine works with the other vaccines they have bombarded upon them at their early age. What might not have a long term effect on us "old" folks, might cause some long term side effects to them. Just wondering and speculating. I value my grandkids very much and hate to see a hasty decision made that might not be necessary. Knowing that these children have all kinds of inoculations before entering the school system, do we really know if this "new" serum will play nicely with the stuff being pumped into them already? Is there really a danger to the kids if they DON'T get the vaccination right now?

I do understand your concerns and they are very valid concerns. But.......my concern is that even children can transmit the disease when they are asymptomatic. The idea of children being one of the causes of mutations and more variants does not sit well with me.

We, as a community, as a nation as part of the global community, need to do everything we can to stop this virus from mutating and creating more variants. For this reason, children do need to be vaccinated. Why eliminate this segment of the population from doing their part to quell this pandemic?

[coffeebean]

You're better than that.

I am sure you are aware that long-haul effects are those that have or will cause permanent changes or damage. From the moment you get it you are destined to no cure.

Some of these Covid long haulers have actually seen relief of their symptoms AFTER receiving an mRNA vaccine. Now THAT is very telling.

Why Vaccines May Be Helping Some With Long COVID > News > Yale Medicine (https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/vaccines-long-covid)

[coffeebean]

Except the dead ones, and the ones with permanent lung/heart damage, and permanently compromised immune systems. They didn't weather the pandemic so great.


Yeah let's wait to see if they get sick and die in the next year from the current new strain, and future new strains. If they don't get sick and die, then we can uh - not vaccinate them since clearly they've weathered the pandemic. If they get sick and die, then uh - I guess we probably should've vaccinated them. Ooops.

I'll compare your reasoning to drowning women to see if they're witches. If they float, they're witches and you can execute them. If they're not witches, they'll drown. Woops.

Love ya, OBB.

[coffeebean]

No, that is not what was reported. What was reported is that it is 225% more transmissable (I have not looked into the exact assumptions that went into that number) than the original strain and one study from China showed that infected people have a 1000 times higher average viral load in their respiratory system. That does not mean it is 1000 times more transmissable.

Delta Variant Is On The Rise. Here's How To Stay Safe And Protect Others : Shots - Health News : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/07/17/1017075240/delta-variant-is-spreading-fast-and-new-cases-are-rising-is-time-to-mask-up-agai)

Honestly, that is not what I heard Dr. Scott Gotlied say on television but I certainly would prefer to believe your stats, that is for sure!!!

[coffeebean]

Maybe not. My son came down with polio symptoms after taking the mandatory polio vaccine on a sugar cube many years ago.

There were days he could not get out of bed. Apparently, the weakened virus he received was not as weak as it was suppose to be. He is 60 years old and still experiences those symptoms.

We were informed he had no legal recourse.
So sorry your son was the victim of a manufacturer error. I read all about those 100,000 doses of the polio vaccine with virus that was not completely deactivated as it should have been. That mistake was tragic, but it was not fault of the vaccine in its true proper form.

[tuccillo]

Doubtful anyone said that. More likely you misinterpreted what he said.

Honestly, that is not what I heard Dr. Scott Gotlied say on television but I certainly would prefer to believe your stats, that is for sure!!!

[coffeebean]

This is a prime example of not understanding what you're reading...

The study stated the=at the Delta Variant may cause the infected person to carry 1000 Xs "the viral load"...

NOT that it is 1000 Xs more transmissible...

I didn't read that the Delta variant is 1000 X more transmissible. I heard Dr. Scott Gotlieb say it on the news on television. I just remember my eyes widened quite a bit when I heard it. I even played it back. I have no doubt, that is what I heard.

[coffeebean]

But, but, but..... I like my "big words" almost as much as I like my rolling laughing little men:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
Love ya, GE.

[coffeebean]

Doubtful anyone said that. More likely you misinterpreted what he said.

Agree. I could have misinterpreted what he said. Having said that, one other poster on this thread mentioned the 1000 X transmissible statement by the doctor too. So, we both must have misinterpreted the doctor's statement.

[John41]

I do understand your concerns and they are very valid concerns. But.......my concern is that even children can transmit the disease when they are asymptomatic. The idea of children being one of the causes of mutations and more variants does not sit well with me.

We, as a community, as a nation as part of the global community, need to do everything we can to stop this virus from mutating and creating more variants. For this reason, children do need to be vaccinated. Why eliminate this segment of the population from doing their part to quell this pandemic?

If we can reach herd immunity at about 70% of the population vaccinated then the virus will die out by itself. Children do not have fully developed immunine systems like adults do and can have severe reactions. Nice you want to sacrifice kids though. NOT.

[JMintzer]

I didn't read that the Delta variant is 1000 X more transmissible. I heard Dr. Scott Gotlieb say it on the news on television. I just remember my eyes widened quite a bit when I heard it. I even played it back. I have no doubt, that is what I heard.

Then that Dr is an idiot...

[coffeebean]

Then that Dr is an idiot...

No, Dr. Scott Gotlieb is not an idiot. I would bet that I was incorrect in what I heard him say so there is that. Tonight on the evening news with Lester Holt, it was said that the Delta variant has 1000X more viral load than the original virus. This is not good news. Either way, this Delta variant is the latest issue we are dealing with in this pandemic.

[Packer Fan]

Almost guaranteed it will have SOME long term side affects. And for some (few) those long term side affects will be serious.

Nothing is perfect. PERIOD. The issue is are the side affects worse than letting the virus run rampant throughout the country/world and mutating at will, into something with even worse long term affects on humanity.

Just my Not So Humble Opinion.

The only long term side effect is you won't die. You do realize that the reason trials are 2 months long is that that is the time period of the longest lasting side effect from ANY VACCINE EVER. Vaccines have been around for a long time.

On top of that these mRNA vaccines have to have a very specific adjuvant so they even stay around in your blood stream long enough to have an effect. Only two companies have figured this out to the point of a successful vaccine.

On top of that these are MUCH safer than older live or deactivated live vaccines because there is no possible way for your to get Covid from it.

You also realize you probably had 15 or more vaccines in your life? This is why infant mortality is a small fraction of what it used to be, and we are having the first pandemic in 100 years.

Stop listening to crazy's on the internet. Jeez I am so sick of this craziness

[Packer Fan]

No, Dr. Scott Gotlieb is not an idiot. I would bet that I was incorrect in what I heard him say so there is that. Tonight on the evening news with Lester Holt, it was said that the Delta variant has 1000X more viral load than the original virus. This is not good news. Either way, this Delta variant is the latest issue we are dealing with in this pandemic.

That is not correct. According to most "experts" it is like 2.8 times. However, the vaccine is effective so who cares.

I will gaurantee you one thing - there will be a epsilon, zeta, eta, theta.....omega variant also until we all wake up to the fact they are just trying to scare us.

just look at the UK. Cases are almost as high as in January but almost no deaths. Why? Because the old people who die are vaccinated, and the young are passing it around and gaining immunity.

Don't be scared if you are vaccinated. If you are not vaccinated, may Darwin have mercy on you.

I was at the doctor yesterday for a sinus infection. I asked why he didn't test me for Covid. He said two reasons- you have the wrong symtoms and you are vaccinated. They have had hundreds of possitives in the past month and ZERO were vaccinated. He said he is convinced the variants don't matter and if everyone would just get vaccinated this would end.

[Packer Fan]

If we can reach herd immunity at about 70% of the population vaccinated then the virus will die out by itself. Children do not have fully developed immunine systems like adults do and can have severe reactions. Nice you want to sacrifice kids though. NOT.

you could not be more wrong - chance of death in Children is like 0.005% and almost all have had other preexisting conditions. 401 deaths in children under 18 from covid since it started. An average influenza year kills 200 kids. in 2009, we lost 477 children to H1N1 Flu, and we didn't call to do anything at all.

In related news - over 4000 children die in car crashes - should we stop allowing them to ride in cars?

[Love2Swim]

From Harvard University -While the risk of COVID causing severe illness and hospitalization is much lower compared to adults, it’s important to remember that at least 491 children ages 0 to 17 years have died from COVID. In addition, long-term adverse health effects even after mild infection in children are now being recognized.

It’s understandable that many parents will be uncomfortable with either choice, vaccinate now or wait. But the rise of the more contagious and possibly more dangerous Delta variant, combined with the protection offered by herd immunity, supports the CDC recommendation that all children ages 12 year and older get vaccinated.

[Bay Kid]

Doesn't anyone care where this virus started? It seems a virus released, that killed millions, the world would like to know.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Doesn't anyone care where this virus started? It seems a virus released, that killed millions, the world would like to know.

First, it is not known if it was intentionally released, so, no I am not interested in where. There are investigations going on to try to determine if and where it was released until there is evidence (not common sense, not someone said, not a podiatrist says, but evidence) I am not worried or concerned at all.

There are enough things to worry about that are proven, without taking on all those that are supposition.

[JMintzer]

The only long term side effect is you won't die. You do realize that the reason trials are 2 months long is that that is the time period of the longest lasting side effect from ANY VACCINE EVER. Vaccines have been around for a long time.

On top of that these mRNA vaccines have to have a very specific adjuvant so they even stay around in your blood stream long enough to have an effect. Only two companies have figured this out to the point of a successful vaccine.

On top of that these are MUCH safer than older live or deactivated live vaccines because there is no possible way for your to get Covid from it.

You also realize you probably had 15 or more vaccines in your life? This is why infant mortality is a small fraction of what it used to be, and we are having the first pandemic in 100 years.

Stop listening to crazy's on the internet. Jeez I am so sick of this craziness

There is no way you can get anything from an attenuated (deactivated) vaccine, either...

Not since the old smallpox vaccine has anyone use live vaccines in a vaccination...

[coffeebean]

The only long term side effect is you won't die. You do realize that the reason trials are 2 months long is that that is the time period of the longest lasting side effect from ANY VACCINE EVER. Vaccines have been around for a long time.

On top of that these mRNA vaccines have to have a very specific adjuvant so they even stay around in your blood stream long enough to have an effect. Only two companies have figured this out to the point of a successful vaccine.

On top of that these are MUCH safer than older live or deactivated live vaccines because there is no possible way for your to get Covid from it.

You also realize you probably had 15 or more vaccines in your life? This is why infant mortality is a small fraction of what it used to be, and we are having the first pandemic in 100 years.

Stop listening to crazy's on the internet. Jeez I am so sick of this craziness

I think you meant to say ......... "so they don't even".............

[coffeebean]

That is not correct. According to most "experts" it is like 2.8 times. However, the vaccine is effective so who cares.



OK. Now I'm officially confused about this. I've seen, on MSM news that " Delta variant has 1000X more viral load" expression a few times now. How can they be referring to the same statistic as the " 2.8 times" stat that you made. These cannot be referring to the same thing.

[GrumpyOldMan]

There is no way you can get anything from an attenuated (deactivated) vaccine, either...

Not since the old smallpox vaccine has anyone use live vaccines in a vaccination

True.

Very little can go wrong with the mRNA vaccine (I never heard that one before - LOL).

But, seriously, mRNA builds on past vaccine data and has been in testing for decades. There is always the possibility of something happening with anything new, but the odds are in the vaccine's favor.

If we are going to worry about everything new, then most food can not be eaten. Most medications can't be taken. Shouldn't fly on new airplanes for at least a couple of years (Boeing 737Max? and now 787?). And on and on.

Yes, stuff happens. If you want to live your life in a constant state of fear, well, it's your life.

When it comes to vaccines to stop pandemics, I can see them becoming mandatory next year. If we get another significant surge and another 1/2 million Americans die. I don't think that is going to happen; it is unlikely. But then the original was supposed to be self-terminating and no worse than influenza. So, we won't know until we do know just how bad their new variants are.

I believe the benefits of stopping the virus out weight the potentially harmful long-term effects - in my very not so humble opinion. And I am not just talking about medical benefits; there are economic benefits to the country (world!). There are lifestyle benefits to people gaining the confidence to get back to their "normal" lives. There are long-term benefits to children being able to get back to school. And on and on.

I completely understand how some people are concerned that the virus is new and has not undergone long-term testing. But, I struggle to understand how someone our age is so worried about "long-term" side effects that they are not willing to risk it for the good of our country, neighbors, and grandchildren. I mean to be fair, just how "long term" can they be at our age?

I will be lucky if I can get another ten years out of this old worn-out body.

[Villagevip]

Posted article seems Pollyannish, happy face from the powers that be... For a different more objective prognosis, opinion, youtube Bitchute posts articles a little more alarming...Jus FYI...

[Byte1]

Except the dead ones, and the ones with permanent lung/heart damage, and permanently compromised immune systems. They didn't weather the pandemic so great.


Yeah let's wait to see if they get sick and die in the next year from the current new strain, and future new strains. If they don't get sick and die, then we can uh - not vaccinate them since clearly they've weathered the pandemic. If they get sick and die, then uh - I guess we probably should've vaccinated them. Ooops.

I'll compare your reasoning to drowning women to see if they're witches. If they float, they're witches and you can execute them. If they're not witches, they'll drown. Woops.

Maybe you should view some stats regarding the ages that are MOST affected by the virus. Although, how anyone could not be aware by now is a mystery.

[golfing eagles]

There is no way you can get anything from an attenuated (deactivated) vaccine, either...

Not since the old smallpox vaccine has anyone use live vaccines in a vaccination...

Actually, there is a big difference between a live attenuated vaccine and a dead one.
Dead is dead, you can't get the disease from it
Rarely, however, a live attenuated virus, especially in an immunocompromised host, will give the disease, usually a milder form.
Polio is a live attenuated vaccine, about 1 in a million will develop some form of polio from the vaccine. Someone on this or a related thread posted that their relative did get polio from the vaccine, sad, but also VERY rare.
Measles, Yellow fever, Varicella-Zoster and the nasal spray form of the flu shot are all live attenuated viruses in use today. Smallpox was, but since the disease is extinct, that vaccine is no longer given

[jimjamuser]

True.

Very little can go wrong with the mRNA vaccine (I never heard that one before - LOL).

But, seriously, mRNA builds on past vaccine data and has been in testing for decades. There is always the possibility of something happening with anything new, but the odds are in the vaccine's favor.

If we are going to worry about everything new, then most food can not be eaten. Most medications can't be taken. Shouldn't fly on new airplanes for at least a couple of years (Boeing 737Max? and now 787?). And on and on.

Yes, stuff happens. If you want to live your life in a constant state of fear, well, it's your life.

When it comes to vaccines to stop pandemics, I can see them becoming mandatory next year. If we get another significant surge and another 1/2 million Americans die. I don't think that is going to happen; it is unlikely. But then the original was supposed to be self-terminating and no worse than influenza. So, we won't know until we do know just how bad their new variants are.

I believe the benefits of stopping the virus out weight the potentially harmful long-term effects - in my very not so humble opinion. And I am not just talking about medical benefits; there are economic benefits to the country (world!). There are lifestyle benefits to people gaining the confidence to get back to their "normal" lives. There are long-term benefits to children being able to get back to school. And on and on.

I completely understand how some people are concerned that the virus is new and has not undergone long-term testing. But, I struggle to understand how someone our age is so worried about "long-term" side effects that they are not willing to risk it for the good of our country, neighbors, and grandchildren. I mean to be fair, just how "long term" can they be at our age?

I will be lucky if I can get another ten years out of this old worn-out body.
Good solid post!

[jimjamuser]

Actually, there is a big difference between a live attenuated vaccine and a dead one.
Dead is dead, you can't get the disease from it
Rarely, however, a live attenuated virus, especially in an immunocompromised host, will give the disease, usually a milder form.
Polio is a live attenuated vaccine, about 1 in a million will develop some form of polio from the vaccine. Someone on this or a related thread posted that their relative did get polio from the vaccine, sad, but also VERY rare.
Measles, Yellow fever, Varicella-Zoster and the nasal spray form of the flu shot are all live attenuated viruses in use today. Smallpox was, but since the disease is extinct, that vaccine is no longer given
Good post. Thanks for the knowledge!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Doesn't anyone care where this virus started? It seems a virus released, that killed millions, the world would like to know.

There are already threads about that. THIS thread is about long-term effects (if any) of the vaccine.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Maybe you should view some stats regarding the ages that are MOST affected by the virus. Although, how anyone could not be aware by now is a mystery.

The people who are most affected by it, are people who catch it from someone else.

If there isn't anyone available to give it to them, then it's unlikely they'll catch it, and be affected by it at all.

[Blueblaze]

I heard it makes you vote Democrat. That can't be true, right? I haven't voted since I got my shots, so I can't say for sure, but lately that 8" cross in my neighbor's yard has begun to annoy me. Not a good sign.

On the bright side, I've only gotten the Covid once since I got my shots, and I didn't die, so I guess it was worth it. Of course, it does seem a bit ironic that I caught the Covid standing in line at an Ocala shopping mall to get my last free Covid shot from the Government.

I wish the Chinese would share their secret for how to not get sick without a vaccine from a disease that started in a "wet market" in that city where they keep their bioweapons lab. According to the World Health Organization, they only had 5,588 deaths, in a nation of 1.5 billion people. And strangely enough, theirs was the only economy in the world that actually grew last year. Maybe they sold us defective masks and kept the good ones for themselves!

Naw -- that sounds like a conspiracy theory. Maybe we just need to eat more bats.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I heard it makes you vote Democrat. That can't be true, right? I haven't voted since I got my shots, so I can't say for sure, but lately that 8" cross in my neighbor's yard has begun to annoy me. Not a good sign.

On the bright side, I've only gotten the Covid once since I got my shots, and I didn't die, so I guess it was worth it. Of course, it does seem a bit ironic that I caught the Covid standing in line at an Ocala shopping mall to get my last free Covid shot from the Government.

I wish the Chinese would share their secret for how to not get sick without a vaccine from a disease that started in a "wet market" in that city where they keep their bioweapons lab. According to the World Health Organization, they only had 5,588 deaths, in a nation of 1.5 billion people. And strangely enough, theirs was the only economy in the world that actually grew last year. Maybe they sold us defective masks and kept the good ones for themselves!

Naw -- that sounds like a conspiracy theory. Maybe we just need to eat more bats.

Excellent post! Love it - LOL

:bigbow:

[GrumpyOldMan]

In related news - over 4000 children die in car crashes - should we stop allowing them to ride in cars?

Are car crashes contageous?

[GrumpyOldMan]

I have decided, you have all convinced me, there is no need to get the vaccine. With or without the vaccine, everyone is going to die anyway. In the long run, it won't make any difference.

Besides, if you get a vaccination you might live long enough to get Alzheimer's, lung cancer, liver cancer, or die from a stroke or heart attack. We should probably list those as possible long-term side effects of the vaccine. I mean, why is the government lying to us and not telling us about those side effects.

[golfing eagles]

I have decided, you have all convinced me, there is no need to get the vaccine. With or without the vaccine, everyone is going to die anyway. In the long run, it won't make any difference.

Besides, if you get a vaccination you might live long enough to get Alzheimer's, lung cancer, liver cancer, or die from a stroke or heart attack. We should probably list those as possible long-term side effects of the vaccine. I mean, why is the government lying to us and not telling us about those side effects.

While I think you are being disingenuous, if you are serious, watch "Logan's Run". That society had the solution to all the problems of aging:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[GrumpyOldMan]

While I think you are being disingenuous, if you are serious, watch "Logan's Run". That society had the solution to all the problems of aging:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Me? Disingenuous? LOL - yup...

And yes, Logans Run was awesome. I loved the old guy in the library with the cats.

[dougjb]

There is a very significant long term side effect from getting the vaccine. It is called a longer life with a better quality of living than if you choose not to get the vaccine. Of course, this is just a generality. A non-vaxer might be able to escape coming down with COVID-19...or that person may not. But, non -vaxers might also want to run across the Sunshine State Parkway just to see if can be done safely as well.

[GrumpyOldMan]

There is a very significant long term side effect from getting the vaccine. It is called a longer life with a better quality of living than if you choose not to get the vaccine. Of course, this is just a generality. A non-vaxer might be able to escape coming down with COVID-19...or that person may not. But, non -vaxers might also want to run across the Sunshine State Parkway just to see if can be done safely as well.

This argument is a non-starter with me. While I wish everyone a long and happy life, I long ago stopped trying to get people to not jump off bridges with rubber bands attached, or jump out of perfectly good working airplanes.

However, I do have a problem if they jump out of an airplane and land on me in my back yard. When someone takes an action (or in this case, fails to take any action) that puts my life at risk, I get grumpy.

[coffeebean]

My personal experience, once I was fully vaxxed, was a huge feeling of relief that is a feeling that I can not express in words. I could not imagine living my life without this vaccine in me. Not having that feeling of euphoria, relief and absolute freedom would not be the way I choose to move forward with my life.

[John41]

My personal experience, once I was fully vaxxed, was a huge feeling of relief that is a feeling that I can not express in words. I could not imagine living my life without this vaccine in me. Not having that feeling of euphoria, relief and absolute freedom would not be the way I choose to move forward with my life.

Yes we too, being in the high risk group, were very relieved when we got our second Moderna shot. We are grateful to those scientists who were able to develop this vaccine in record time.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I was going to post this in a new thread, but it seems to be related to this one:

"Findings

People who had recovered from COVID-19, including those no longer reporting symptoms, exhibited significant cognitive deficits versus controls when controlling for age, gender, education level, income, racial-ethnic group, pre-existing medical disorders, tiredness, depression and anxiety. "

Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from COVID-19 (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext)

[jimjamuser]

My personal experience, once I was fully vaxxed, was a huge feeling of relief that is a feeling that I can not express in words. I could not imagine living my life without this vaccine in me. Not having that feeling of euphoria, relief and absolute freedom would not be the way I choose to move forward with my life.
Getting vaccinated gives BOTH you and society at large an insurance policy. Each of us does NOT live on a bubbled over island. By that, I mean that the UNvaccinated are ACTUALLY doing great harm to the vaccinated. For one example........ because the UNvaccinated are clogging up hospitals in Florida, Texas, and nationwide - elective surgeries get POSTPONED, which are more profitable than CV patients. Even possibly cancerous tumor surgeries are postponed. Health insurance cost goes up for the vaccinated because of the negligence of the UNvaccinated. And I am NOT talking about the FEW that are unable to take the vaccine.

Another situation where the UNvaccinated are messing over ALL of society is ........the virus is using the unvaccinated as a Petrie dish to evolve and mutate - perhaps to a more virulent form that can overcome the vaccine. When and IF that happens, then the world as we know it is TOAST. We can ALL HOPE that it never gets that bad - so why take a chance when by acting fast and getting the vaccine - we can prevent this type of doomsday scenario! Incidentally, Florida is leading the US in the number of new cases. Texas is 2nd worst!!!!!!

[jimjamuser]

I was going to post this in a new thread, but it seems to be related to this one:

"Findings

People who had recovered from COVID-19, including those no longer reporting symptoms, exhibited significant cognitive deficits versus controls when controlling for age, gender, education level, income, racial-ethnic group, pre-existing medical disorders, tiredness, depression and anxiety. "

Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from COVID-19 (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext)
That IS a good important post and would make a good new thread. I heard about that on the news recently.I read that Delta is affecting many younger people neurologically, which IS what you are saying. I asked the question here a few days ago about if this becomes common knowledge to MOTHERS of school-age children - will they refuse to send those children to a dangerous, indoor school filled with both vaccinated and UNvaccinated kids. And could that show up after 10 years as a society-wide drop in IQs and creativity?

[DAVES]

We search for, we demand perfect solutions to everything. REALITY, there is no perfect solution to anything.
I strangely judge all by the same rules. Truly a majority of one.

The covid vaccine. To get it or not to a claimed choice. Hum, the polio vaccine, the small pox vaccine, we were not give a choice. Both were wiped out in the United States. Polio was a horror. The Salk vaccine came to market a year or so before I was born. Dr. Salk gave it to the world and made nothing on the miracle he created.

Permanent side effects? Truth we do not know. Reality, death is a permanent side effect to life. Thought? People refuse to see that REALITY.

[drducat]

If you feel like helping...Woman Has Both Legs and Hands Amputated After COVID Jab

Fundraiser for Philip Nache by Minnesota-Wisconsin Baptist Convention : Fundraiser for Jummai Nache'''s Medical Expenses (https://www.gofundme.com/f/22h9pf-fundraiser-for-jummai-naches-medical-expenses)

[GrumpyOldMan]

If you feel like helping...Woman Has Both Legs and Hands Amputated After COVID Jab

Fundraiser for Philip Nache by Minnesota-Wisconsin Baptist Convention: Fundraiser for Jummai Nache'''s Medical Expenses (https://www.gofundme.com/f/22h9pf-fundraiser-for-jummai-naches-medical-expenses)

I found documentation on numerous cases of people having extremities amputated after getting COVID. I found none of the people having extremities amputated after having the vaccine.

Considering the amount of false information being spread on the internet about vaccinations, I will rate this as false until some form of credible documentation is provided. If you read the entire post at the go fund me, it is the husband that is blaming the vaccination, not the CDC, not the Dr that treated her. They investigated and said she had MIS-A and that resulted in the amputations and they could not determine if the vaccination was involved.

That is ONE accidental case. With all the "stuff" being spread about the danger of the vaccines do you honestly believe this type of story could be suppressed? And yet, not a mention anywhere. And not another case like this anywhere.

Just posting it here is probably helping to spread misinformation and is exactly what is happening everywhere today.

[coffeebean]

If you feel like helping...Woman Has Both Legs and Hands Amputated After COVID Jab

Fundraiser for Philip Nache by Minnesota-Wisconsin Baptist Convention : Fundraiser for Jummai Nache'''s Medical Expenses (https://www.gofundme.com/f/22h9pf-fundraiser-for-jummai-naches-medical-expenses)

It is not the Covid jab that caused all her issues. She was not fully vaccinated when she developed Covid. All these problems she is experiencing is because she was infected with Covid BEFORE she was fully vaccinated. So......the vaccination is not at fault. Check the timeline in the article.

[coffeebean]

///

[GrumpyOldMan]

It is not the Covid jab that caused all her issues. She was not fully vaccinated when she developed Covid. All these problems she is experiencing is because she was infected with Covid BEFORE she was fully vaccinated. So......the vaccination is not at fault. Check the timeline in the article.

The post is technically accurate, sadly. It did happen AFTER she receives a vaccination shot. But, including that little tidbit implies a causal relationship.

Here is what her doctor said:

"The Infectious Disease Dr considered the test results, Jummai's condition, the timeline of the administered vaccine, and the onset of covid 19, realizing the vaccine might have caused the adverse reaction. But the Dr always concludes that this is just a theory that cannot be verified because they do not have testing equipment to clearly state that the vaccine has caused Jummai's devastation. "

posting leading suggestions like this someone reads, and passes on adding their own little bit of spin, and before long it comes back saying everyone getting the vaccine is losing limbs.

We all have a responsibility to avoid posts that imply something that is not true or proven.

[JMintzer]

Getting vaccinated gives BOTH you and society at large an insurance policy. Each of us does NOT live on a bubbled over island. By that, I mean that the UNvaccinated are ACTUALLY doing great harm to the vaccinated. For one example........ because the UNvaccinated are clogging up hospitals in Florida, Texas, and nationwide - elective surgeries get POSTPONED, which are more profitable than CV patients. Even possibly cancerous tumor surgeries are postponed. Health insurance cost goes up for the vaccinated because of the negligence of the UNvaccinated. And I am NOT talking about the FEW that are unable to take the vaccine.

Another situation where the UNvaccinated are messing over ALL of society is ........the virus is using the unvaccinated as a Petrie dish to evolve and mutate - perhaps to a more virulent form that can overcome the vaccine. When and IF that happens, then the world as we know it is TOAST. We can ALL HOPE that it never gets that bad - so why take a chance when by acting fast and getting the vaccine - we can prevent this type of doomsday scenario! Incidentally, Florida is leading the US in the number of new cases. Texas is 2nd worst!!!!!!

Could you please explain how covid patients, who are not having surgery, are preventing others from having surgery?

They use completely different resources, staff, and facilities...

[JMintzer]

That IS a good important post and would make a good new thread. I heard about that on the news recently.I read that Delta is affecting many younger people neurologically, which IS what you are saying. I asked the question here a few days ago about if this becomes common knowledge to MOTHERS of school-age children - will they refuse to send those children to a dangerous, indoor school filled with both vaccinated and UNvaccinated kids. And could that show up after 10 years as a society-wide drop in IQs and creativity?

A link to back up these claims would be nice...

[JMintzer]

If you feel like helping...Woman Has Both Legs and Hands Amputated After COVID Jab

Fundraiser for Philip Nache by Minnesota-Wisconsin Baptist Convention : Fundraiser for Jummai Nache'''s Medical Expenses (https://www.gofundme.com/f/22h9pf-fundraiser-for-jummai-naches-medical-expenses)

"The Infectious Disease Dr considered the test results, Jummai's condition, the timeline of the administered vaccine and the onset of covid 19, realizing the vaccine might have caused the adverse reaction. But the Dr always concludes that this is just a theory which cannot be verified because they do not have testing equipment to clearly state that the vaccine has caused Jummai's devastation. "

[JMintzer]

The post is technically accurate, sadly. It did happen AFTER she receives a vaccination shot. But, including that little tidbit implies a causal relationship.

Here is what her doctor said:

"The Infectious Disease Dr considered the test results, Jummai's condition, the timeline of the administered vaccine, and the onset of covid 19, realizing the vaccine might have caused the adverse reaction. But the Dr always concludes that this is just a theory that cannot be verified because they do not have testing equipment to clearly state that the vaccine has caused Jummai's devastation. "

posting leading suggestions like this someone reads, and passes on adding their own little bit of spin, and before long it comes back saying everyone getting the vaccine is losing limbs.

We all have a responsibility to avoid posts that imply something that is not true or proven.

Exactly...

If you get hit by a meteor after getting your covid shot, I can assure you that the meteor hit was not due to the covid shot....

[GrumpyOldMan]

Could you please explain how covid patients, who are not having surgery, are preventing others from having surgery?

They use completely different resources, staff, and facilities...

Well, partly true. If a hospital is overwhelmed, it is not unusual to reassign resources to handle the "emergency". Say a train wreck and hundreds of people are injured, ER would be swamped, and all available staff would be focused on that and optional surgery would be rescheduled.

I mean, seriously, didn't you ever watch Grey's Anatomy? (LOL)

[GrumpyOldMan]

A link to back up these claims would be nice...

If you are asking for a link to back up the claims of cognitive impairment from COVID-19, I posted the link a page or so ago, here it is again. It is from Lancet, a fairly reliable source:

Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from COVID-19 (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext)

[GrumpyOldMan]

Exactly...

If you get hit by a meteor after getting your covid shot, I can assure you that the meteor hit was not due to the covid shot....

Whew, that's a relief, I was checking out the sky daily ever since I got my second shot!!

[JMintzer]

If you are asking for a link to back up the claims of cognitive impairment from COVID-19, I posted the link a page or so ago, here it is again. It is from Lancet, a fairly reliable source:

Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from COVID-19 (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext)

I read it... A lot of "suspected" and "possibly" in there...

Oh, and Lancet has had egg on their face, more than once, for posting bad studies as fact...

The Lancet retracts large study on hydroxychloroquine (https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/lancet-retracts-large-study-hydroxychloroquine-n1225091)

[drducat]

I read it... A lot of "suspected" and "possibly" in there...

Oh, and Lancet has had egg on their face, more than once, for posting bad studies as fact...

The Lancet retracts large study on hydroxychloroquine (https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/lancet-retracts-large-study-hydroxychloroquine-n1225091)

As long as there are therapeutics that actually work well (which they are finding many), there is no need for a vaccine at all.:clap2:

[JMintzer]

As long as there are therapeutics that actually work well (which they are finding many), there is no need for a vaccine at all.:clap2:

Yeah, I'm gonna' disagree on that one...

[GrumpyOldMan]

I read it... A lot of "suspected" and "possibly" in there...

Oh, and Lancet has had egg on their face, more than once, for posting bad studies as fact...

The Lancet retracts large study on hydroxychloroquine (https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/lancet-retracts-large-study-hydroxychloroquine-n1225091)

Scientists seldom speak in absolutes. Here are the "findings" it seems less "maybe" and more "does" (I post this not for you but for those that did not read the article.) emphasis mine:

----

People who had recovered from COVID-19, including those no longer reporting symptoms, exhibited significant cognitive deficits versus controls when controlling for age, gender, education level, income, racial-ethnic group, pre-existing medical disorders, tiredness, depression and anxiety. The deficits were of substantial effect size for people who had been hospitalised (N = 192), but also for non-hospitalised cases who had biological confirmation of COVID-19 infection (N = 326). Analysing markers of premorbid intelligence did not support these differences being present prior to infection. Finer grained analysis of performance across sub-tests supported the hypothesis that COVID-19 has a multi-domain impact on human cognition.

----


To me a sign of being credible is the willingness to retract someone one has published when proven wrong.No one is perfect, no journal never makes a mistake.

[PugMom]

Well, don't be "concerned about this spike protein that the shot contains.", since it does not contain the spike protein. It is a mRNA vaccine that CODES for production of the spike protein that our immune systems recognize as foreign and raise antibodies against.

It also has nothing whatsoever to do with prion disease, so you're not getting Creutzfeldt-Jacob or Kuru from the vaccine. If you are very, very fat you might get BSE:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

:coolsmiley:thank you for your reply, i value your info.

[jimjamuser]

Could you please explain how covid patients, who are not having surgery, are preventing others from having surgery?

They use completely different resources, staff, and facilities...
CV patients can have extremely long hospital stays, sometimes 30 to 40 days. Some parts of the country like in Missouri and Alabama are CV HOTSPOTS. The situation has gotten so bad that VISITING temporary (very expensive) nurses must be brought in. Rooms and even hallways are taken over by CV patients. ANY surgery recovery requires a room. In the last big surge, hospitals were putting up tents and calling on National Gaurd ships for help. Potential elective surgery patients see the hospitals in the current hot spots that are in disarray and they say, "no way, I am NOT going". So they cancel their elective surgery. My point IS that all this emergency disarray caused by the vaccine refusers IS costing individual hospitals AND overall society tremendously. It even has large-scale effects on national strength and unity.

[drducat]

Yeah, I'm gonna' disagree on that one...

So the need for an experimental jab is a better risk than using proven therapeutics where some work great as a prophylactic's....we do know spike proteins are toxic and that this jab does make the body create trillions of them.....not a safe method in my opinion.

[Swoop]

CV patients can have extremely long hospital stays, sometimes 30 to 40 days. Some parts of the country like in Missouri and Alabama are CV HOTSPOTS. The situation has gotten so bad that VISITING temporary (very expensive) nurses must be brought in. Rooms and even hallways are taken over by CV patients. ANY surgery recovery requires a room. In the last big surge, hospitals were putting up tents and calling on National Gaurd ships for help. Potential elective surgery patients see the hospitals in the current hot spots that are in disarray and they say, "no way, I am NOT going". So they cancel their elective surgery. My point IS that all this emergency disarray caused by the vaccine refusers IS costing individual hospitals AND overall society tremendously. It even has large-scale effects on national strength and unity.
And the hospital ship sailed away without really being used. And the temporary “hospitals” like those in the Javits Center also went virtually unused. But they made for really great news broadcasts and filled hours of airtime - successfully ramping up the panic…

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

And the hospital ship sailed away without really being used. And the temporary “hospitals” like those in the Javits Center also went virtually unused. But they made for really great news broadcasts and filled hours of airtime - successfully ramping up the panic…

They treated only 22 patients in the first few days after it docked on March 30, because of bureaucratic red tape and confusing military policies. By the time Cuomo told the fed "fuggedaboudit" and sent the ship back, almost a month later, it had treated fewer than 200 people total.

This was because of bad administration, poor coordination, and massive demonstration of utter apathy on the part of people who had the authority to DO something about it.

[John41]

CV patients can have extremely long hospital stays, sometimes 30 to 40 days. Some parts of the country like in Missouri and Alabama are CV HOTSPOTS. The situation has gotten so bad that VISITING temporary (very expensive) nurses must be brought in. Rooms and even hallways are taken over by CV patients. ANY surgery recovery requires a room. In the last big surge, hospitals were putting up tents and calling on National Gaurd ships for help. Potential elective surgery patients see the hospitals in the current hot spots that are in disarray and they say, "no way, I am NOT going". So they cancel their elective surgery. My point IS that all this emergency disarray caused by the vaccine refusers IS costing individual hospitals AND overall society tremendously. It even has large-scale effects on national strength and unity.

I agree everyone who can get vaccinated should. But when a group of legislators fly from Texas unmasked, and unvaccinated and spread the virus to our center of government it sends a mixed message at best.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I agree everyone who can get vaccinated should. But when a group of legislators fly from Texas unmasked, and unvaccinated and spread the virus to our center of government it sends a mixed message at best.

All three legislators who tested positive for Covid were FULLY vaccinated. And they tested positive AFTER they arrived in DC - which means they could've contracted it while they were in DC, and someone who actually lives in DC is the one spreading it.

[Swoop]

They treated only 22 patients in the first few days after it docked on March 30, because of bureaucratic red tape and confusing military policies. By the time Cuomo told the fed "fuggedaboudit" and sent the ship back, almost a month later, it had treated fewer than 200 people total.

This was because of bad administration, poor coordination, and massive demonstration of utter apathy on the part of people who had the authority to DO something about it.
Cuomo, wasn’t he the same guy who said that NY didn’t have enough ventilators and doctors would have to decide who would live or die. And as it turns out he didn’t even use the ventilators they had inventoried?? That also made for great fear mongering news…
And let’s not forget who forced nursing homes to accept Covid patients… Certainly you would consider that “was because of bad administration, poor coordination, and massive demonstration of utter apathy on the part of people who had the authority to DO something about it”…

[GrumpyOldMan]

And the hospital ship sailed away without really being used. And the temporary “hospitals” like those in the Javits Center also went virtually unused. But they made for really great news broadcasts and filled hours of airtime - successfully ramping up the panic…

The hospital ship sailed away because it was ordered there while in the middle of refurbishing, and once there was working with confusing directions that did nothing to help the situation. But, other than a cluster f from the beginning... yeah.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Cuomo, wasn’t he the same guy who said that NY didn’t have enough ventilators and doctors would have to decide who would live or die. And as it turns out he didn’t even use the ventilators they had inventoried?? That also made for great fear mongering news…
And let’s not forget who forced nursing homes to accept Covid patients… Certainly you would consider that “was because of bad administration, poor coordination, and massive demonstration of utter apathy on the part of people who had the authority to DO something about it”…

Deflection.

[coffeebean]

as long as there are therapeutics that actually work well (which they are finding many), there is no need for a vaccine at all.:clap2:

nope!

[coffeebean]

So the need for an experimental jab is a better risk than using proven therapeutics where some work great as a prophylactic's....we do know spike proteins are toxic and that this jab does make the body create trillions of them.....not a safe method in my opinion.

Where in the world do you get your information? Please provide a link and in the words of another very respected poster on this forum, "Not from the Conspiracy Theory Weekly".

[coffeebean]

And the hospital ship sailed away without really being used. And the temporary “hospitals” like those in the Javits Center also went virtually unused. But they made for really great news broadcasts and filled hours of airtime - successfully ramping up the panic…

Rather than using the Javitz Center, to make room in hospitals, nursing home patients were sent back to their nursing homes, still infected with Covid. We all know how THAT ended up.

[coffeebean]

They treated only 22 patients in the first few days after it docked on March 30, because of bureaucratic red tape and confusing military policies. By the time Cuomo told the fed "fuggedaboudit" and sent the ship back, almost a month later, it had treated fewer than 200 people total.

This was because of bad administration, poor coordination, and massive demonstration of utter apathy on the part of people who had the authority to DO something about it.

Yup!

[drducat]

Where in the world do you get your information? Please provide a link and in the words of another very respected poster on this forum, "Not from the Conspiracy Theory Weekly".

Here is one.

Israeli lab: Some existing drugs could stop COVID at almost 100% - The Jerusalem Post (https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-lab-some-existing-drugs-could-stop-covid-at-almost-100-percent-674426)


Also Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine which the FDA has been called out on for false info.

[Swoop]

Rather than using the Javitz Center, to make room in hospitals, nursing home patients were sent back to their nursing homes, still infected with Covid. We all know how THAT ended up.

And whose decision was that?!?!?

[John41]

All three legislators who tested positive for Covid were FULLY vaccinated. And they tested positive AFTER they arrived in DC - which means they could've contracted it while they were in DC, and someone who actually lives in DC is the one spreading it.

Of course they tested positive AFTER they arrived because there is a 5 day period before symptoms appear. Second it’s now six legislators who had breakthrough cases. The probability of that is 2.6% so something is fishy. And the fact that new cases occurring with those legislators will no longer be reported is suspicious. Then there is the mixed message of telling the public that even the vaccinated need to wear masks while ignoring your own advice.

[Swoop]

Deflection.

Seriously?……..No…

[jimjamuser]

And the hospital ship sailed away without really being used. And the temporary “hospitals” like those in the Javits Center also went virtually unused. But they made for really great news broadcasts and filled hours of airtime - successfully ramping up the panic…
I hope no one REALLY believes that kind of anti-media propaganda. My post overall had WAY more relevance and credibility. Look at the OVERALL CONTENT of my post. It is easy to "cherry-pick" small snippets of a post to criticize, but much more difficult to write a meaningful rebuttal against the total content of the post. I believe that my post was meaningful to most interested open-minded readers. I find that the TRADITIONAL media sources are the best antidotes against the flood of propaganda that I believe has roots in Russian and Chinese trolls - then it gets amplified and retransmitted by poor unwitting US conspiracy theorists and anarchists that hate on their own America - all of which IS currently leading down a road to a form of government that most Americans will HATE!

[Moderator]

Everybody needs to stop addressing each other directly, quit with the political comments, sly or otherwise, and play nice with each other. Many posts have been removed, and the entire thread is in danger of being closed.

[JMintzer]

The hospital ship sailed away because it was ordered there while in the middle of refurbishing, and once there was working with confusing directions that did nothing to help the situation. But, other than a cluster f from the beginning... yeah.

Not true...

[John41]

I hope no one REALLY believes that kind of anti-media propaganda. My post overall had WAY more relevance and credibility. Look at the OVERALL CONTENT of my post. It is easy to "cherry-pick" small snippets of a post to criticize, but much more difficult to write a meaningful rebuttal against the total content of the post. I believe that my post was meaningful to most interested open-minded readers. I find that the TRADITIONAL media sources are the best antidotes against the flood of propaganda that I believe has roots in Russian and Chinese trolls - then it gets amplified and retransmitted by poor unwitting US conspiracy theorists and anarchists that hate on their own America - all of which IS currently leading down a road to a form of government that most Americans will HATE!

From the Columbia Journalism School

.” According to a separate Gallup poll from earlier this year that tracked trust in major institutions, newspapers and television news were among the lowest, exceeded only by Congress.

Many journalists from the NYT, WAPO now say truth in journalism is overrated.

So how can the public believe statements on the Covid vaccine are accurate?

[JMintzer]

Everybody needs to stop addressing each other directly, quit with the political comments, sly or otherwise, and play nice with each other. Many posts have been removed, and the entire thread is in danger of being closed.

Kinda' hard to have a conversation without addressing each other directly, no?

[blueash]

There is no way you can get anything from an attenuated (deactivated) vaccine, either...

Not since the old smallpox vaccine has anyone use live vaccines in a vaccination...

I am big proponent of vaccines and of correcting misinformation. You are wrong about the definition and use of attenuated vaccines. Attenuated vaccines are weakened but not killed or "deactivated" to use your word. There are several live viral vaccines in use including the MMR, the nasal influenza, rotavirus, and the chicken pox and shingles shots. The oral polio is not used in the US anymore, but is elsewhere, but it also is a live viral vaccine.

[KJ1325]

My father is 87 and Extremely healthy. Only takes 2 pills per day for diabetes. After his 1st shot his platelets dropped to 15. He has been on steroids and have blood draw 3 times per week for 5 months. They suspect it may have been the vaccine but won't confirm. He did not get the 2nd shot. They told him if he cuts himself he could bleed out.

[GrumpyOldMan]

My father is 87 and Extremely healthy. Only takes 2 pills per day for diabetes. After his 1st shot his platelets dropped to 15. He has been on steroids and have blood draw 3 times per week for 5 months. They suspect it may have been the vaccine but won't confirm. He did not get the 2nd shot. They told him if he cuts himself he could bleed out.

I am sorry to hear about your father. I hope he gets better. Assuming it was the vaccination, that is one case out of 3 billion vaccinations so far. I will take those odds.

I do know there are other side effects. And it is always sad to hear about them. But the number is so few compared to the number of lives saved. Nothing in life is perfect. No medical treatment is perfect. All we can do is the best we can do.

[Bay Kid]

Kinda' hard to have a conversation without addressing each other directly, no?

Kind of like the govern controlling what they want us to see, hear and say.

[JMintzer]

I am big proponent of vaccines and of correcting misinformation. You are wrong about the definition and use of attenuated vaccines. Attenuated vaccines are weakened but not killed or "deactivated" to use your word. There are several live viral vaccines in use including the MMR, the nasal influenza, rotavirus, and the chicken pox and shingles shots. The oral polio is not used in the US anymore, but is elsewhere, but it also is a live viral vaccine.

I was already "corrected"...

I was speaking in layman's terms and yes, I over simplified things. Happy now?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Kind of like the govern controlling what they want us to see, hear and say.

It is nothing like that. It is a private company running it's platform how it wants to. That is called Capitalism.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I was already "corrected"...

I was speaking in layman's terms and yes, I over simplified things. Happy now?

You and I often disagree, and sometimes agree. But, I want to compliment you on your responses like this one. It would be nice if more people could simply discuss and leave out the innuendo, the dog whistles, and the ad hominem attacks.

Thank you.

(Note to the moderator, I apologize for directing my compliment at the poster.)

[coffeebean]

Here is one.

Israeli lab: Some existing drugs could stop COVID at almost 100% - The Jerusalem Post (https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-lab-some-existing-drugs-could-stop-covid-at-almost-100-percent-674426)


Also Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine which the FDA has been called out on for false info.

Good to know there are therapeutics that are in the works. It's always a good thing to have an arsenal. Nothing is approved yet, so waiting. In the meantime, vaccinations are the way to go, for sure.

[coffeebean]

And whose decision was that?!?!?

Certainly, not mine. LOL.

[Byte1]

Wow, just wow.

If you get stung by a bee, you may or may not die, but I can guarantee you 100% that if you get stung by a bee it will NOT kill me or my family. Are these two situations in any way different? I guess not - WOW!

I have not read anything in the Constitution or any local or federal laws that indicate that I am responsible for you or your family. I plan on driving my car down the highway at 60-70mph, but do not presume to tell me that it will be my fault if you jump out in front of me and get run over. I'll do my due diligence and wear my seat belt as the law specifies, but it is up to you to protect yourself from my day to day (lawful) activities.

[Byte1]

Kinda' hard to have a conversation without addressing each other directly, no?

Not trying to be facetious, BUT why is there a "reply" button under each comment, if not for replying directly to that person? Just wondering, because I bet others have the same question.