Shopping in San Francisco

[Bay Kid]

Can you shoplift up to $900. in San Francisco and not be arrested?

[Toymeister]

My daughter lives there. She doesn't consider it bad overall. I am not questioning her thought process but I do try to understand why she feels that way. I have concluded:

She likes her income

Some areas are "better" than others

She has empathy for the homeless

She enjoys the weather

The overall atmosphere in California teaches you to accept this sort of behavior

She has far less living history of not accepting public homelessness, drug use, urination, and prostitution than I do.

She is probably like many of the residents of California.

[Bill14564]

It's too far to drive to shop in San Francisco.

[Seamus6]

It's too far to drive to shop in San Francisco.

I am glad I finally visited SF in 2016 on my way to Hawaii for a cruise, it wasn't AS bad then as I hear things are now. I also visited LA on the way back and got to celebrate in November 2016 before getting on my plane the next day.

I am looking forward to never going back to California. In the unlikely event I go back to Hawaii again, I will stop off in Texas or Puerto Rico instead.

[Kenswing]

Didn't we just do this thread the other day? :shrug:

[Seamus6]

Didn't we just do this thread the other day? :shrug:

That one was would you OWN a store in SF.
This one is COMPLELTY different.
I'm sure it won't get just as political and be deleted by tomorrow, or Saturday at the latest!

[Kenswing]

That one was would you OWN a store in SF.
This one is COMPLELTY different.
I'm sure it won't get just as political and be deleted by tomorrow, or Saturday at the latest!

In other words, same pot, different spoon? :1rotfl:

[davem4616]

It's too far to drive to shop in San Francisco.


no need to drive to San Fran....just wait a day, it'll all be put up on eBay

[manaboutown]

Can you shoplift up to $900. in San Francisco and not be arrested?

Where is SF's boosted merchandise being fenced? Police say check your local flea market

From: Where is SF'''s boosted merchandise being fenced? Police say check your local flea market (https://www.ktvu.com/news/where-is-sfs-boosted-merchandise-being-fenced-police-say-check-your-local-flea-market)

[Stu from NYC]

Went to SF few years ago for a couple of days before a cruise to Hawaii.

Enjoyed the time there but some of what goes on is way over the top.

[JMintzer]

In other words, same pot, different spoon? :1rotfl:

No, the pot thread is completely different... :icon_wink:

[John41]

Can you shoplift up to $900. in San Francisco and not be arrested?

It’s decriminalized to steal up to $950. However if the store owner shoots the robber he will be prosecuted.

[Aloha1]

I used to love going to San Francisco for the food, wine country, the Buena Vista Inn, etc. No more. The city will not recover until the citizens there wake up from their wokeness.

[JMintzer]

It’s decriminalized to steal up to $950. However if the store owner shoots the robber he will be prosecuted.

Shooting to stop a theft is always dicey, unless you believe your life is in danger...

[thevillages2013]

Shooting to stop a theft is always dicey, unless you believe your life is in danger...

Not if they don’t ever find the robber. 55 gallon drum and acid. Also silencer and bleach. Sorry I have been watching too much tv. Animal Kingdom now

[Billy1]

Read about the crime in The Villages. We had a police raid in Fenney this week. Love the people in S.F. including your family members.

[Girlcopper]

Didn't we just do this thread the other day? :shrug:
Yeah, we did. :icon_bored::icon_bored:

[WesMan]

Can you shoplift up to $900. in San Francisco and not be arrested?
Well it's Nancy P town, what do you want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Annie66]

It's too far to drive to shop in San Francisco.

Now that is funny.....

[ithos]

Read about the crime in The Villages. We had a police raid in Fenney this week. Love the people in S.F. including your family members.

Are you being serious? Comparing the crime rate in The Villages to San Francisco?

When was the last time you saw someone shooting up or defecating in public around here?

[jdulej]

I can tell by the comments who has actually spent time in SF and who has learned about it from Fox Non-News. At least in California they don't push their homeless off into the woods so no one sees them.

[J1ceasar]

The only thing in public going around here is fornification

[J1ceasar]

The big crime wave here is stealing a Bic razor and cleaning your face. For that we arrest you lock you up and it costs the taxpayers $5,000

[J1ceasar]

I hear in Chicago they are going to decriminalize shootings with guns if they are 22 s 32s and 45's. Only if you carry out the big gun 357 will you get arrested

[dolphin]

Can you shoplift up to $900. in San Francisco and not be arrested?

Yes

[ithos]

I can tell by the comments who has actually spent time in SF and who has learned about it from Fox Non-News. At least in California they don't push their homeless off into the woods so no one sees them.

So are you making the point that the quality of life and crime has not deteriorated in the last few years? And the new Soros backed DA is doing a good job?

Please enlighten us.

Oh, here is what the locals think:

San Francisco quality of life declining? 70% in poll say yes (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/san-francisco-quality-of-life-declining-70-in-poll-say-yes/ar-AALyPMt)

And this:

Businesses Are Fleeing California. Blame Bad Government. - Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-12-29/businesses-are-fleeing-california-blame-bad-government)

I don't have to visit North Korea to know that it would not be a good place to retire.

[crash]

I used to love going to San Francisco for the food, wine country, the Buena Vista Inn, etc. No more. The city will not recover until the citizens there wake up from their wokeness.

Here we go on our way to being deleted. Some people just always have to go there.

[Tom2172]

Shooting to stop a theft is always dicey, unless you believe your life is in danger...

California has legalized stealing. In the end the poor will pay in higher prices, closed stores and less opportunity.
Politician don’t care they live in better neighborhoods with security.

[crash]

Are you being serious? Comparing the crime rate in The Villages to San Francisco?

When was the last time you saw someone shooting up or defecating in public around here?

Much closer to go to Orlando if you want to see that.

[Bay Kid]

I started this thread because I have never seen such a change in our great country. The criminal is now the hero. Where will we be in another 5 years?

[ithos]

Much closer to go to Orlando if you want to see that.

So explain why Orlando is as bad off as SF.

I agree the town has declined in quality life as more woke policies have been adopted. Just not to the same extent.

[JMintzer]

Not if they don’t ever find the robber. 55 gallon drum and acid. Also silencer and bleach. Sorry I have been watching too much tv. Animal Kingdom now

Yeah, "Breaking Bad" wasn't real... :icon_wink:

[oneclickplus]

Where is SF's boosted merchandise being fenced? Police say check your local flea market

From: Where is SF'''s boosted merchandise being fenced? Police say check your local flea market (https://www.ktvu.com/news/where-is-sfs-boosted-merchandise-being-fenced-police-say-check-your-local-flea-market)

These are criminal gangs - not the homeless. I say a few public executions would put a big dent in this behavior. But, unfortunately, this behavior is sanctioned by those on the left side (meaning west coast if you thought that was political) if the country.

[JMintzer]

Are you being serious? Comparing the crime rate in The Villages to San Francisco?

When was the last time you saw someone shooting up or defecating in public around here?

Well, there was that one guy at one of the Postal Stations... :icon_wink:

[TorriJ]

A grocery store in North Minneapolis is trying a new approach with shoplifting. And it appears to be working. It does not remove accountability but realigns resources. This is a very interesting article about what is happening there.

Northside Cub returns with new grocery store model | kare11.com (https://www.kare11.com/mobile/article/news/local/land-of-10000-stories/looted-and-burned-northside-cub-returns-with-new-store-model/89-36d8d07f-5351-4b7e-942e-131d5fe6b58e)

[pgettinger01]

As crime, and minimum wage increase and the tax base decreases. Business close, and people with leave. Quality of life deteriorates. California is going broke and budget cuts will have to be made.

[ithos]

Interesting how some people think that mentioning "Fox News" is a substitute for explaining your point of view using logic and reason.

San Francisco has gone down hill(unless you are a tech billionaire) due to bad policies. And it warrants a discussion else the same could happen here in our state.

[davephan]

We considered retiring in California several years ago, instead of in Florida, where we ended up retiring. One of our brother and sisters in law still live in Californa, over 20 years now. They are basically stuck in California till the sister in law can retire. We hear how bad things are in California from them. They've released a lot of prisioners early to cut costs, which of course increased crime. California was flooded with illegals, which overloaded the health care system for the legal US citizens. Stores are closing or moving out of state because it's basically legal to steal up to $950 of merchandice. The criminals know that, and repeat their crimes over and over.

There's homeless encampments all over, with 50% of the US homeless population living in California. It's unsafe to get too close to those homeless tent areas, especially at night. The used needles are on the sidewalks. People urinate and poop on the sidewalks and streets. The rats and flees in the homeless areas spread decease to humans. Sometimes the homeless trash and squalid encampents are cleaned up at taxpayer expense, and the homeless just relocate.

California has basically now a cesspool. There are nice areas sprinkled around, but those nice areas have homes over a million dollars. The property taxes are very expensive, so is the income taxes, and all the other taxes.

The extreme leftists have absolute control over the government in California. Some conservatives live in California, but their votes are meaningless. If you have conservative political views in California, you have to quietly keep those things to yourself, or you might be cancelled by the totally intollerant leftists in California.

We used to visit the brother and sister in law in Southern California once or twice a year. The weather is nice there. But California has been destroyed by the leftists extremists, so we don't visit California anymore. It would have been a huge mistake to retire in California!

[lahamm69]

Fake News

[nick demis]

My daughter lives there. She doesn't consider it bad overall. I am not questioning her thought process but I do try to understand why she feels that way. I have concluded:

She likes her income

Some areas are "better" than others

She has empathy for the homeless

She enjoys the weather

The overall atmosphere in California teaches you to accept this sort of behavior

She has far less living history of not accepting public homelessness, drug use, urination, and prostitution than I do.

She is probably like many of the residents of California.

Sorry but you just described the problem. Accepting these issues ARE the problem.

[golfing eagles]

Can you shoplift up to $900. in San Francisco and not be arrested?

Planning a trip for a five finger discount????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[JMintzer]

Interesting how some people think that mentioning "Fox News" is a substitute for explaining your point of view using logic and reason.

Just lazy, or they have no actual argument...

[JMintzer]

Fake News

What, exactly, is fake?

[davephan]

My daughter lives there. She doesn't consider it bad overall. I am not questioning her thought process but I do try to understand why she feels that way. I have concluded:

She likes her income

Some areas are "better" than others

She has empathy for the homeless

She enjoys the weather

The overall atmosphere in California teaches you to accept this sort of behavior

She has far less living history of not accepting public homelessness, drug use, urination, and prostitution than I do.

She is probably like many of the residents of California.

That's an accurate accessment how a lot of people in California feel about living in California. They accept the homeless encampments, used needles on the sidewalks and streets, public urination and pooping stench. Open drug use, prositution, and high crime rates.

The incomes, taxes, and cost of living are all high. The congestion and rush hour traffic is horrible. No question about it, the weather is fantastic. There are nice areas where you can isolate yourself from the horrible things in California. But you know that you're living in a state which has been destroyed by the one party system there. Many people that live in California ignore the serious problems in California, and look the other way.

[retiredguy123]

A grocery store in North Minneapolis is trying a new approach with shoplifting. And it appears to be working. It does not remove accountability but realigns resources. This is a very interesting article about what is happening there.

Northside Cub returns with new grocery store model | kare11.com (https://www.kare11.com/mobile/article/news/local/land-of-10000-stories/looted-and-burned-northside-cub-returns-with-new-store-model/89-36d8d07f-5351-4b7e-942e-131d5fe6b58e)
I don't get it. How does what they did going to prevent shoplifting? Shoplifters should be arrested and prosecuted.

[RMarkland]

It’s decriminalized to steal up to $950. However if the store owner shoots the robber he will be prosecuted.
Heard on the news the number was $1,000.00 probably increased due to "inflation"

[G.R.I.T.S.]

My daughter lives there. She doesn't consider it bad overall. I am not questioning her thought process but I do try to understand why she feels that way. I have concluded:

She likes her income

Some areas are "better" than others

She has empathy for the homeless

She enjoys the weather

The overall atmosphere in California teaches you to accept this sort of behavior

She has far less living history of not accepting public homelessness, drug use, urination, and prostitution than I do.

She is probably like many of the residents of California.

❄️ Like mine.😂

[manaboutown]

'''Their hands are tied''': San Francisco locals demand change to stop brazen crime | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/their-hands-are-tied-san-francisco-locals-demand-change-to-stop-brazen-crime?cmpid=fb_fnc&fbclid=IwAR0bNAUksi-hBLVoSyz223lyhec2BUDqv19qGy21HyHPmRLF4cE1rOR_5MY)

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Can you shoplift up to $900. in San Francisco and not be arrested?

Cheap Christmas presents?

[BlackhawksFan]

It's probably the delineation between felony and misdemeanor. I think you'd get arrested for less.

Like here let's say you go to Belk and stuff a bunch of costume jewelry down your pants and LP grabs you. Depending on the dollar value it's either felony or misdemeanor and while I don't recall the total its way less than $900 and you're getting booked. You also get a no trespass summons which I believe is good for three years.

[GOLFER54]

I read that you can steal up to $950 of merchandise and if caught the charge is a misdemeanor, like a traffic ticket. How ridiculous is that. Walgreens and other chains have closed a lot of their stores. I thought stealing is a crime, as well as one of the 10 Commandments.. THOU SHALL NOT STEAL ! Only in California would this be acceptable.

[jbartle1]

Place of birth. Visited 20 years ago. So sad city has homeless problem. Just like everything, hopefully they will figure out solution.

[Vermilion Villager]

O....M....G!!!!! So I read the first 15 replies then stopped. Not one subsequent post challenged the validity of the original post, and not one offered a post to confirm post #1 was total BS! You all were told something you wanted to hear and ran with it.......Classic definition of Sheep or Sheeple!!!!

[bilcon]

One of the greatest cities we visited in the 1980's. We walked from one end to another, rode the street cars, walked to China Town and back to the hotel at night. The Fisherman's Wharf was great to have a walk-a-way treat. We visited great bars and restaurants like Lord Jims, Henry's Africa and Lefty Odouls. Glad we saw it before it went down the toilet. Whoops, sorry, they don't use toilets, they use the sidewalk.

[ChiefDMM]

Can you shoplift up to $900. in San Francisco and not be arrested?

I am one of the thousands of people escaping California and lived very close to SF. I can attest that SF is an absolute ****hole! The elected officials continue to enact their liberal policies which promote homelessness, drug use and criminal activity. Last time I visited SF I literally had to step around sleeping homeless people and dodge human feces on the sidewalks. I’m not insensitive to the homelessness crisis in California but I have watched the problem increase exponentially. Same applies to all west coast states. The reason? We pay them to come here and do not allow law enforcement to enforce the laws of the people. Perfect recipe for the continued degeneration of the quality of life in California. One of many reasons why I bolted.

Feel free to visit, but you definitely don’t want to live there. Spend your money there. The government will just turn around and use it to buy syringes for drug addicts to shoot up under their supervision. Think I’m kidding? Look it up. That really happens.

[retiredguy123]

O....M....G!!!!! So I read the first 15 replies then stopped. Not one subsequent post challenged the validity of the original post, and not one offered a post to confirm post #1 was total BS! You all were told something you wanted to hear and ran with it.......Classic definition of Sheep or Sheeple!!!!
I don't think Post No. 1 is BS. All it said was that you will not be arrested. Shoplifting less than $950 is a misdemeanor, but the news reports have said that the current police policy in San Francisco is to not make an arrest for a misdemeanor. So, what is BS about the post?

[xcaligirl]

I am glad I finally visited SF in 2016 on my way to Hawaii for a cruise, it wasn't AS bad then as I hear things are now. I also visited LA on the way back and got to celebrate in November 2016 before getting on my plane the next day.

I am looking forward to never going back to California. In the unlikely event I go back to Hawaii again, I will stop off in Texas or Puerto Rico instead.
I am a born/raised in CA person, left there in 2014 for FL and will NEVER move back there. San Francisco was bad (not as bad as now) back in the early 2000's. A friend of mine lived and worked in the city, she was killed leaving the office at noon to go grab something for lunch. Like many other cities, I would even go by myself to thye city for a day on a weekend, LOVED the place, LOVED CA but I just can't even hardly visit. (haven't been in 3 years due to different situations here). Yes, I do have family there but planes do travel both directions.

[Petersweeney]

Where are their parents?

[Marty94]

My daughter lives there. She doesn't consider it bad overall. I am not questioning her thought process but I do try to understand why she feels that way. I have concluded:

She likes her income

Some areas are "better" than others

She has empathy for the homeless

She enjoys the weather

The overall atmosphere in California teaches you to accept this sort of behavior

She has far less living history of not accepting public homelessness, drug use, urination, and prostitution than I do.

She is probably like many of the residents of California.

My niece lives in SF and feels the same. She lives in her Google owned building, boards her Google owned bus and goes to her Google job where she gets 3 square meals and fresh air breaks to bicycle the compound. She still loves it there.

I don’t know the laws in SF to weigh in on the OP’s question. Sorry.

[ithos]

O....M....G!!!!! So I read the first 15 replies then stopped. Not one subsequent post challenged the validity of the original post, and not one offered a post to confirm post #1 was total BS! You all were told something you wanted to hear and ran with it.......Classic definition of Sheep or Sheeple!!!!

How many articles from mainstream papers( I think of them as liberal but giving them them benefit of the doubt) do you need to read before you snap out of your denial.

Several people who have lived there have confirmed the breakdown of law and order in CA.
Check this article out from 2018

Medical group cancels San Francisco convention due to homeless crisis - Curbed SF (https://sf.curbed.com/2018/7/3/17531240/convention-moscone-center-homeless-crime)

Tough Love would be to take the drug addicts off the street and into a treatment program and incarcerate them if they refuse to stop camping in public areas.
It would be cheaper than the $60,000 tents.

Spending $60,000 on tents, San Francisco evinces government failure (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/spending-60-000-on-tents-san-francisco-evinces-government-failure/ar-AALCqqn)

[jdulej]

So are you making the point that the quality of life and crime has not deteriorated in the last few years? And the new Soros backed DA is doing a good job?

Please enlighten us.

Oh, here is what the locals think:

San Francisco quality of life declining? 70% in poll say yes (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/san-francisco-quality-of-life-declining-70-in-poll-say-yes/ar-AALyPMt)

And this:

Businesses Are Fleeing California. Blame Bad Government. - Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-12-29/businesses-are-fleeing-california-blame-bad-government)

I don't have to visit North Korea to know that it would not be a good place to retire.

Is there a city anywhere in the world where the quality of life has improved and the crime rate has gone down in the past few years? Maybe Wildwood, but only the Villages part.

I can't get past the Bloomberg paywall to read that link, but the survey in the other is suspect, being funded by the very business oriented Chamber of Commerce.

My point was that homelessness is a problem all over the US, it's just out in the open out west and people are trying to do something about it (maybe not very well). Just running people out of your town, so you can claim some sort of purity is not addressing the problem at all.

[lawgolfer]

The police will not arrest shoplifters who steal items totaling less than $900. The security guards at the stores let the shoplifters walk in front of them and out the door carrying the stolen items.

Wallgreens is not renewing its leases in S.F. and is in the process of closing all stores in the City. Gangs of shoplifters run into their stores, sweep a shelf of items into a shopping bag and run out the door. The gangs then meet up with a buyer who pays them cash. The stolen items then go to flea markets or are listed on eBay.

We lived in S.F. for several years. They were the best years of our lives. We left for the Central Valley because of housing prices and a growing family. We stopped visiting the City several years ago because of the homeless, the panhandlers, and the general deterioration. Finally, we left California for all these reasons together with the property and income taxes.

[Chi-Town]

Nice to see Bay Kid concerned about the City by the Bay.

Take a Look at the City by the Bay- San Francisco (https://www.studyusa.com/en/a/1350/take-a-look-at-the-city-by-the-bay-san-francisco)

[ithos]

Is there a city anywhere in the world where the quality of life has improved and the crime rate has gone down in the past few years? Maybe Wildwood, but only the Villages part.

I can't get past the Bloomberg paywall to read that link, but the survey in the other is suspect, being funded by the very business oriented Chamber of Commerce.

My point was that homelessness is a problem all over the US, it's just out in the open out west and people are trying to do something about it (maybe not very well). Just running people out of your town, so you can claim some sort of purity is not addressing the problem at all.

Ok, then show me the survey that says local citizens overwhelmingly love the place. Provide the links that says that all this stuff is made up and San Francisco doesn't have a poop app.

'SnapCrap' app invites San Francisco residents to report poop on city streets (https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/SnapCrap-app-San-Francisco-poop-feces-dirty-street-13281837.php)

The Amount of Poop on San Francisco'''s Streets Has Hit an All-Time High (https://www.vice.com/en/article/a3xdae/more-people-pooping-in-san-francisco-than-ever-all-time-high-vgtrn)

I am always willing to change my opinion. It only requires a reasoned and sourced explanation.

[JMintzer]

O....M....G!!!!! So I read the first 15 replies then stopped. Not one subsequent post challenged the validity of the original post, and not one offered a post to confirm post #1 was total BS! You all were told something you wanted to hear and ran with it.......Classic definition of Sheep or Sheeple!!!!

And not one post to challenge the validity of the OP...

Classic definition of Sheep or Sheeple!!!!

Here, does this satisfy you?

California’s Shoplifting Laws - What You Need to Know (https://www.robertmhelfend.com/criminal-defense/california-shoplifting-laws/)

[retiredguy123]

And not one post to challenge the validity of the OP...

Classic definition of Sheep or Sheeple!!!!

Here, dose this satisfy you?

California’s Shoplifting Laws - What You Need to Know (https://www.robertmhelfend.com/criminal-defense/california-shoplifting-laws/)
That explains the law. But, in San Francisco, the police "may" issue a citation for a misdemeanor shoplifting, but they do not make an arrest. So, the OP's initial post is entirely valid.

[golfing eagles]

"no consequence shoplifting"---figures

I will not comment on this thread, since I gave up on SF after the murder of Kate Steinle

They all have what they wanted and deserve now.

[donassaid]

According to Fox News yesterday, you can now shoplift up to $950 in broad daylight without recourse. The police will not respond to any robbery at that amount or under and, even those who are arrested face no bail. One can only imagine what would happen to a store owner or manager who took it upon himself to confront a perp with a shotgun, a bat, a lead pipe or even his fists. Californians are pure nuts to put up with this insanity.

[Aloha1]

I can tell by the comments who has actually spent time in SF and who has learned about it from Fox Non-News. At least in California they don't push their homeless off into the woods so no one sees them.

Wow! What's the weather gone be tomorrow, oh seer?

[Aloha1]

Here we go on our way to being deleted. Some people just always have to go there.

Excuse me? No politics involved here, unless you think discussing a social issue is. If so, not my problem.

[DaleDivine]

I hear in Chicago they are going to decriminalize shootings with guns if they are 22 s 32s and 45's. Only if you carry out the big gun 357 will you get arrested
A .45 is a whole lot bigger than a .357...
:ohdear::ohdear:

[DaleDivine]

Where are their parents?

The kids don't know who their parents are...
:ohdear::ohdear:

[Bella6368]

My daughter lives there. She doesn't consider it bad overall. I am not questioning her thought process but I do try to understand why she feels that way. I have concluded:

She likes her income

Some areas are "better" than others

She has empathy for the homeless

She enjoys the weather

The overall atmosphere in California teaches you to accept this sort of behavior

She has far less living history of not accepting public homelessness, drug use, urination, and prostitution than I do.

She is probably like many of the residents of California.


It appears you can shoplift anywhere now in the USA, and get away with it. It's part of the "Great Reset". Sad, but true.

[DaleDivine]

O....M....G!!!!! So I read the first 15 replies then stopped. Not one subsequent post challenged the validity of the original post, and not one offered a post to confirm post #1 was total BS! You all were told something you wanted to hear and ran with it.......Classic definition of Sheep or Sheeple!!!!
Annnddd yet here you are on post #53.. LOL you're the one full of BS you troll.
:1rotfl::blahblahblah::blahblahblah::blahblahblah:

[MrLonzo]

Can you shoplift up to $900. in San Francisco and not be arrested?

I live in San Diego. It's now like that in all the major cities of California. Steal up to $950 in merchandise and no arrests or prosecutions. The results are starting to come in. Stores like Walgreens are closing, mostly in the inner cities and poorer neighborhoods. Retailers are going more and more toward online shopping.

While police look the other way, it's not clear why private security also refuse to 'detain' the thieves. If I owned a store, I'd hire a security team to take back the stolen merchandise. If that resulted in an escalation to violence, then the police could be called in. Don't know if anyone has tried walking out of a Costco without paying -- they check the receipts at the exit door. I wonder how they would handle a thief.

[Get real]

You get what you deserve. They voted for that, they got it. That's what they want. Stop complaining. president Eggplant supports it... :bigbow:

[LateBoomer]

You get what you deserve. They voted for that, they got it. That's what they want. Stop complaining. president Eggplant supports it... :bigbow:
Couldn't agree more.

Let SF, LA, SF, Chicago etc etc suffer from their own stupid voting patterns.

the rest of us just laugh

[Get real]

The sad part about all of this, is that IMHO most Americans have felt that the people we elect to govern us are smarter, wiser, more responsible, and have a genuine desire to serve "us". My mother used to tell me "too bad we can't vote for the best candidate, these days we have to vote for the least worst". Maybe in the past politicians were honorable people, but these days politicians are a bunch of self serving, money thieving, power hungry leeches regardless of party affiliation. They are all millionaires and live apart from us "peasants".

[PennBF]

I visited and stayed in San Francisco over many years and it was one of the favorite cities. No longer. There is an under belly that a number do know about. I was staying with some friends just outside the city near Sanford and one of the maids was going into the city and asked if I would like to go with her for the ride. I said sure. We went into the Mission District and she purchased for $50 each a drivers license, green card, and SS card for her brother who was coming to the US from South America. It was interesting that I had the opportunity to witness this first hand and gained some understanding how the US is being abused. This was a few years ago. Fisherman's Wharf was a great place for snacks on fish, or Giadarilli Square for ice cream or candy bars. Some interesting facts are the Trans America pointed building is built with huge springs on each corner to protect against earthquakes. The Bart Transit line is build on small stones in the bay to allow it to shift a few feet in a earthquake, there are or were huge sand boxes at the stations to catch any cars that did not stop because the wire on the tracks that controls stops may have rusted.:ho:

[DAVES]

My daughter lives there. She doesn't consider it bad overall. I am not questioning her thought process but I do try to understand why she feels that way. I have concluded:

She likes her income

Some areas are "better" than others

She has empathy for the homeless

She enjoys the weather

The overall atmosphere in California teaches you to accept this sort of behavior

She has far less living history of not accepting public homelessness, drug use, urination, and prostitution than I do.

She is probably like many of the residents of California.

I am an ex New Yorker. People are happy and miserable everywhere. Truth, my reality had you asked me just a few years ago I would have honestly told you I would never move to Florida and never to a planed community. Here we are happy in the villages, a created disney land for old people. Hum who is that old guy looking back at me in my mirror.

That concept of a better section a common thought. HUH do criminals not walk, run, ride bikes, drive. yet, another irrational thought.

[DAVES]

The sad part about all of this, is that IMHO most Americans have felt that the people we elect to govern us are smarter, wiser, more responsible, and have a genuine desire to serve "us". My mother used to tell me "too bad we can't vote for the best candidate, these days we have to vote for the least worst". Maybe in the past politicians were honorable people, but these days politicians are a bunch of self serving, money thieving, power hungry leeches regardless of party affiliation. They are all millionaires and live apart from us "peasants".

History as we were indoctrinated with was first of all boring and secondly totally false.
What we vote for is a public relations firm. You do not know the person we vote for at least most of us don't.

Today, our screaming about our past and our current president. Read about Abe Lincoln
thought, today, by most to be one of our greatest presidents. What we are fed in history class.
Truth is just as today our nation was clearly divided. My view, at the end of the Civil War,
Abe Lincoln made Thanksgiving a national holiday. For me a shockingly, simple, brilliant
political act. Had Booth, out of mindless hate, not killed Lincoln my opinion, though we cannot go down two different roads at the same time, things would have been far better for the south, for freed slaves and for OUR nation.

Do overs, were perhaps third grade. We all have no choice but to see where we are and decide or try to decide where we go from here

[DAVES]

The sad part about all of this, is that IMHO most Americans have felt that the people we elect to govern us are smarter, wiser, more responsible, and have a genuine desire to serve "us". My mother used to tell me "too bad we can't vote for the best candidate, these days we have to vote for the least worst". Maybe in the past politicians were honorable people, but these days politicians are a bunch of self serving, money thieving, power hungry leeches regardless of party affiliation. They are all millionaires and live apart from us "peasants".

George Washington another made into a saint politician. His reality according to the book making of the president 1776. He married Martha Washington, I don't recall her maiden name not because she was attractive, she was rather plain but because she was a WEALTHY WIDOW. George Washington had sort of an accountant background.
While he did refuse to be paid to lead the troops he did freely use his expense account.
I his own records, it shows he sent wagons and horses home and billed his expense account. He also sent home barrels a Madara a sweet wine. Reminder they did not know about germs but they did know that you would get sick from drinking water but not from tea or alcoholic beverages. Our declaration of independence, our constitution, miracle that I think they are. The writers, the debaters, the signors likely had a buzz on when they did this.

People have never been perfect. Edited people are not real but we do vote for them.

[Neils]

SF situation is coming soon to every town in the USA. Please remember in Nov

[Catfishjeff]

I am one of the thousands of people escaping California and lived very close to SF. I can attest that SF is an absolute ****hole! The elected officials continue to enact their liberal policies which promote homelessness, drug use and criminal activity. Last time I visited SF I literally had to step around sleeping homeless people and dodge human feces on the sidewalks. I’m not insensitive to the homelessness crisis in California but I have watched the problem increase exponentially. Same applies to all west coast states. The reason? We pay them to come here and do not allow law enforcement to enforce the laws of the people. Perfect recipe for the continued degeneration of the quality of life in California. One of many reasons why I bolted.

Feel free to visit, but you definitely don’t want to live there. Spend your money there. The government will just turn around and use it to buy syringes for drug addicts to shoot up under their supervision. Think I’m kidding? Look it up. That really happens.
Ditto to everything you said. The beauty and weather can no longer neutralize the CA government and their crazy policies. We escaped in 2019 and never looked back. Full disclosure, due to business interests there we have to return for a few days every once and a while.

[Tim C.]

George Washington another made into a saint politician. His reality according to the book making of the president 1776. He married Martha Washington, I don't recall her maiden name not because she was attractive, she was rather plain but because she was a WEALTHY WIDOW. George Washington had sort of an accountant background.

Martha Dandridge Custis Washington

Marriages in the 18th century were rarely about love, but most often about the relative assets of each party and/or social position. for the farmer/working classes, even moreso it was about basic economic survival. A patriarchal partnership.

For the upper classes- George Washington was hardly unique in this way. Marriage based primarily on attraction and love is a concept that really doesn't begin to appear in the US or Europe widely until the 19th century