Florida Now COVID Capital U.S.A

[Boffin]

Florida is recording more COVID-19 cases than any other U.S. state, as hospitalizations in some areas increase at the fastest rate since the start of the pandemic.

The state accounts for one in five new infections in the U.S. and logged 73,181 cases over the past week, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Florida had 341 cases per 100,000 people over the past week, second only to Louisiana. The weekly total of new cases reported by Florida jumped more than fourfold between July 1 and July 22, reaching its highest point since mid-January.

Deaths in Florida totaled 319 over the past week, the most among states, with a rate of 1.5 per 100,000 people, the fourth-highest, according to the CDC.

Epidemiologists say various factors are at play: large numbers of unvaccinated people, a relaxation of preventive measures like mask-wearing and social distancing, the spread of the highly contagious Delta variant of the coronavirus and the congregation of people indoors during hot summer months.

[Dana1963]

Florida is recording more COVID-19 cases than any other U.S. state, as hospitalizations in some areas increase at the fastest rate since the start of the pandemic.

The state accounts for one in five new infections in the U.S. and logged 73,181 cases over the past week, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Florida had 341 cases per 100,000 people over the past week, second only to Louisiana. The weekly total of new cases reported by Florida jumped more than fourfold between July 1 and July 22, reaching its highest point since mid-January.

Deaths in Florida totaled 319 over the past week, the most among states, with a rate of 1.5 per 100,000 people, the fourth-highest, according to the CDC.

Epidemiologists say various factors are at play: large numbers of unvaccinated people, a relaxation of preventive measures like mask-wearing and social distancing, the spread of the highly contagious Delta variant of the coronavirus and the congregation of people indoors during hot summer months.
We DON’t NEED NO STINKING MASKS. But Respiratory Ventilators work so much better.
Who would have thought this was going to happen?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Here we go again, get out the pop corn. Can't wait to see how many laps around this tree this tread makes it before getting closed.

[billethkid]

The single most contributing factor is that almost all new cases are those not vaccinated. The hospitalization and deaths will follow those numbers.

Requiring those who are already protected/vaccinated to mask up and social distance again accomplishes what?
The number not vaccinated isn't going to change significantly.
The number not masking up is not likely to change either.

As long as the decision makers continue dance around of the reality of the un-vaccinated pandemic...it can only get worse.

[GrumpyOldMan]

The single most contributing factor is that almost all new cases are those not vaccinated. The hospitalization and deaths will follow those numbers.

Requiring those who are already protected/vaccinated to mask up and social distance again accomplishes what?
The number not vaccinated isn't going to change significantly.
The number not masking up is not likely to change either.

As long as the decision makers continue dance around of the reality of the un-vaccinated pandemic...it can only get worse.

Either it will "just disappear" next April. Or it will surge and mutate, in which case we may be heading into the next world wide depression as the government runs out of money and can't borrow anymore to keep the economy afloat.

Or IF we are really lucky and we are living in a real world and not a make believe world. Doctors will find effective vaccines as fast as the virus mutates. The government will take decisive steps and mandate vaccinations for everyone.

But, that is just my silly opinion. Since the pandemic is actually fake, like we have been told - it probably doesn't matter. We will see soon enough. And our grandkids will pay for our decisions.

[Bill14564]

The single most contributing factor is that almost all new cases are those not vaccinated. The hospitalization and deaths will follow those numbers.

Requiring those who are already protected/vaccinated to mask up and social distance again accomplishes what?
The number not vaccinated isn't going to change significantly.
The number not masking up is not likely to change either.

As long as the decision makers continue dance around of the reality of the un-vaccinated pandemic...it can only get worse.

The most comforting fact is that almost all new cases are those not vaccinated. I hold no (little) ill feelings towards the not vaccinated but as one of vaccinated, it is comforting to know I'm unlikely to become hospitalized or ill.

The number of not vaccinated *is* going to change, it will go down. Whether significantly or not is yet to be seen.

I don't know that I want the decision makers to stop dancing. Some are sticking firmly against mask mandates while others are trying to make up their minds. The decision that would negatively impact me is to impose a mandate or lockdown so I'd rather see things where they are now rather than having any of them make that choice.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Just another day in paradise, right?

This happened - to the surprise of no one with a brain.

[dtennent]

Looks like the Darwin Effect will winnow out the unvaccinated - by death, by the loved ones seeing the effects when someone is seriously ill with Covid 19 (and getting vaccinated), or both. The thing about a mutating virus is that only the mutations that are more contagious will propagate significantly. The best hope for the unvaccinated is that a new highly contagious mutation comes along that has a much lower hospitalization/fatality rate.

[Mortal1]

*yawn* weird that no one gives a key reason....better, faster, accuracy and more testing...duh!

[coffeebean]

I keep hearing lately that vaccinated people are being asked to mask up to protect the un-vaccinated. Are they serious? They cannot be serious!!! They expect me to mask up to protect someone who is not willing to protect themselves?

Sorry about those who are not able to get vaccinated because of medical issues but they will just have to protect themselves when out in public.

Again.....asking a vaccinated person to protect the un-vaxxed? NOT HARDLY, IMHO.

[Bill14564]

*yawn* weird that no one gives a key reason....better, faster, accuracy and more testing...duh!

A key reason for what, the increased infections? Two key reasons have been given over and over again: the new variant and the number of unvaccinated individuals.

"better, faster, accuracy and more testing" *might* explain an increase in the number of positive tests. What it doesn't explain is a similar increase in the number of hospitalizations.

[golfing eagles]

I keep hearing lately that vaccinated people are being asked to mask up to protect the un-vaccinated. Are they serious? They cannot be serious!!! They expect me to mask up to protect someone who is not willing to protect themselves?

Sorry about those who are not able to get vaccinated because of medical issues but they will just have to protect themselves when out in public.

Again.....asking a vaccinated person to protect the un-vaxxed? NOT HARDLY, IMHO.

But it's even worse than that. By even considering the vaccinated "mask up" (idiotic term IMHO), they are essentially stating that they do not believe in the effectiveness of the vaccine. If they did, they would state that the vaccinated never need to wear a mask, never need to socially distance, and never need a COVID test. After all, the vaccine should prevent you from getting and transmitting the disease. Yes, yes, there is the CDC stated 0.007% (1 in 13,000) breakthrough rate, but that is miniscule.
And the every other day testing of the MLB teams and the Olympic athletes is ridiculous. Do we test our children for polio, diphtheria, measles, or rubella EVERY OTHER DAY after they get vaccinated? And if we did, what might we find? Do we test adults, even those that work in nursing homes, EVERY OTHER DAY for seasonal influenza after they've been vaccinated? NO, we just give the vaccine and pretty much forget about it
So therefore, I have absolutely no idea what "the powers that be" are thinking

And one more thing----John Rahm. Here is a pro golfer who tested positive about 3-4 months ago, was quarantined, then tested negative and returned to the tour. About 6 weeks ago he was exposed to a "case" of COVID (whether this means a sick person or just another "positive" test, who knows). He got the first dose of the vaccine, was tested every day at the following tournament, and then tested positive again, had to withdraw with a 6 shot lead (about a 2 million dollar loss). He subsequently got the second dose, and after quarantine tested negative. Now, he was tested prior to the Olympics, positive, and can't compete. WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON? Nothing in my knowledge of virology and epidemiology would suggest that this is even possible----a person who has had BOTH the disease AND fully vaccinated can get the disease again. This suggest there is either something very wrong with the test or with the vaccine. Since almost all the "new" cases are among the unvaccinated, I suspect the test is overly sensitive with a huge false positive rate.

[Wyseguy]

There are 64,600 illegal immigrants entering the country each month since January. The vast majority are unvaccinated. Does the government require these individuals to get the shot or be turned back and out of the country?

[Wyseguy]

I keep hearing lately that vaccinated people are being asked to mask up to protect the un-vaccinated. Are they serious? They cannot be serious!!! They expect me to mask up to protect someone who is not willing to protect themselves?

Sorry about those who are not able to get vaccinated because of medical issues but they will just have to protect themselves when out in public.

Again.....asking a vaccinated person to protect the un-vaxxed? NOT HARDLY, IMHO.

I really doubt those who chose not to get the vaccine care if you wear a mask or not. Seriously.

[Bill14564]

But it's even worse than that. By even considering the vaccinated "mask up" (idiotic term IMHO), they are essentially stating that they do not believe in the effectiveness of the vaccine. If they did, they would state that the vaccinated never need to wear a mask, never need to socially distance, and never need a COVID test. After all, the vaccine should prevent you from getting and transmitting the disease. Yes, yes, there is the CDC stated 0.007% (1 in 13,000) breakthrough rate, but that is miniscule.
And the every other day testing of the MLB teams and the Olympic athletes is ridiculous. Do we test our children for polio, diphtheria, measles, or rubella EVERY OTHER DAY after they get vaccinated? And if we did, what might we find? Do we test adults, even those that work in nursing homes, EVERY OTHER DAY for seasonal influenza after they've been vaccinated? NO, we just give the vaccine and pretty much forget about it
So therefore, I have absolutely no idea what "the powers that be" are thinking

...


While I don't want to accuse them of thinking, one possibility is they are taking human (American) nature and reality into account.

I was recently in an area with a very large outdoor crowd. The stated policy there, as I believe it is most everywhere, is that unvaccinated people should be wearing masks. I don't have an accurate count but the number of masks I saw were in the dozens with about half being worn anywhere near correctly. Either the vaccination rate in that population was about 98% or the unvaccinated were ignoring the mask policy. My guess is the latter.

*IF* masking makes any difference at all and if you want the unvaccinated to wear masks then the only way to make that happen is to force everyone to wear a mask. Otherwise, experience shows that unvaccinated will take off their masks too.

I don't like it, I don't agree with it, I don't want to have to deal with it, but it might be what the powers that be are "thinking."

[GrumpyOldMan]

*yawn* weird that no one gives a key reason....better, faster, accuracy and more testing...duh!

There are many reports of studies explaining why. They are just not being reported on a particular cable news outlet.

The reasons for the current surge starting are unvaccinated and DELTA variant.

The vast majority of new infections are unvaccinated.

Some who have been vaccinated are experiencing "breakthrough" infections.

Of the un-vaccinated that get the virus a percentage of them are dying - small, but about the same percentage that already killed 600,000 Americans.

Of the vaccinated that have gotten the virus - NONE have died.

[drducat]

I keep hearing lately that vaccinated people are being asked to mask up to protect the un-vaccinated. Are they serious? They cannot be serious!!! They expect me to mask up to protect someone who is not willing to protect themselves?

Sorry about those who are not able to get vaccinated because of medical issues but they will just have to protect themselves when out in public.

Again.....asking a vaccinated person to protect the un-vaxxed? NOT HARDLY, IMHO.

Yes and as I mentioned before...vaccinated still contract and spread the virus with no symptoms....along with..yes variants.

:popcorn:

[drducat]

But it's even worse than that. By even considering the vaccinated "mask up" (idiotic term IMHO), they are essentially stating that they do not believe in the effectiveness of the vaccine. If they did, they would state that the vaccinated never need to wear a mask, never need to socially distance, and never need a COVID test. After all, the vaccine should prevent you from getting and transmitting the disease. Yes, yes, there is the CDC stated 0.007% (1 in 13,000) breakthrough rate, but that is miniscule.
And the every other day testing of the MLB teams and the Olympic athletes is ridiculous. Do we test our children for polio, diphtheria, measles, or rubella EVERY OTHER DAY after they get vaccinated? And if we did, what might we find? Do we test adults, even those that work in nursing homes, EVERY OTHER DAY for seasonal influenza after they've been vaccinated? NO, we just give the vaccine and pretty much forget about it
So therefore, I have absolutely no idea what "the powers that be" are thinking

And one more thing----John Rahm. Here is a pro golfer who tested positive about 3-4 months ago, was quarantined, then tested negative and returned to the tour. About 6 weeks ago he was exposed to a "case" of COVID (whether this means a sick person or just another "positive" test, who knows). He got the first dose of the vaccine, was tested every day at the following tournament, and then tested positive again, had to withdraw with a 6 shot lead (about a 2 million dollar loss). He subsequently got the second dose, and after quarantine tested negative. Now, he was tested prior to the Olympics, positive, and can't compete. WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON? Nothing in my knowledge of virology and epidemiology would suggest that this is even possible----a person who has had BOTH the disease AND fully vaccinated can get the disease again. This suggest there is either something very wrong with the test or with the vaccine. Since almost all the "new" cases are among the unvaccinated, I suspect the test is overly sensitive with a huge false positive rate.

The spike proteins are the culprit and not the actual virus so...what does the jab do again??? Oh wait!

[golfing eagles]

The spike proteins are the culprit and not the actual virus so...what does the jab do again??? Oh wait!

No idea what you are talking about, and I suspect neither do you.

[Love2Swim]

The single most contributing factor is that almost all new cases are those not vaccinated. The hospitalization and deaths will follow those numbers.

Requiring those who are already protected/vaccinated to mask up and social distance again accomplishes what?
The number not vaccinated isn't going to change significantly.
The number not masking up is not likely to change either.

As long as the decision makers continue dance around of the reality of the un-vaccinated pandemic...it can only get worse.

What it accomplished is not allowing vaccinated people to unwittingly be carriers and spread it to the unvaccinated. Although the risk of this happening is not widespread, it is not zero either.

[GrumpyOldMan]

No idea what you are talking about, and I suspect neither do you.

:bigbow: :clap2: :clap2:

[tuccillo]

That is simply not true.

COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html)



Of the vaccinated that have gotten the virus - NONE have died.

[jimjamuser]

Either it will "just disappear" next April. Or it will surge and mutate, in which case we may be heading into the next world wide depression as the government runs out of money and can't borrow anymore to keep the economy afloat.

Or IF we are really lucky and we are living in a real world and not a make believe world. Doctors will find effective vaccines as fast as the virus mutates. The government will take decisive steps and mandate vaccinations for everyone.

But, that is just my silly opinion. Since the pandemic is actually fake, like we have been told - it probably doesn't matter. We will see soon enough. And our grandkids will pay for our decisions.
Yes, grandkids are at risk of paying for our bad decisions today (anti-vaxxers). If they get CV they can have neurological problems. The US could have a generation with lower IQs and less creativity. Which could allow other countries to overtake the US in Science and Engineering. Let's hope that this does not happen!

[JMintzer]

But it's even worse than that. By even considering the vaccinated "mask up" (idiotic term IMHO), they are essentially stating that they do not believe in the effectiveness of the vaccine. If they did, they would state that the vaccinated never need to wear a mask, never need to socially distance, and never need a COVID test. After all, the vaccine should prevent you from getting and transmitting the disease. Yes, yes, there is the CDC stated 0.007% (1 in 13,000) breakthrough rate, but that is miniscule.
And the every other day testing of the MLB teams and the Olympic athletes is ridiculous. Do we test our children for polio, diphtheria, measles, or rubella EVERY OTHER DAY after they get vaccinated? And if we did, what might we find? Do we test adults, even those that work in nursing homes, EVERY OTHER DAY for seasonal influenza after they've been vaccinated? NO, we just give the vaccine and pretty much forget about it
So therefore, I have absolutely no idea what "the powers that be" are thinking

And one more thing----John Rahm. Here is a pro golfer who tested positive about 3-4 months ago, was quarantined, then tested negative and returned to the tour. About 6 weeks ago he was exposed to a "case" of COVID (whether this means a sick person or just another "positive" test, who knows). He got the first dose of the vaccine, was tested every day at the following tournament, and then tested positive again, had to withdraw with a 6 shot lead (about a 2 million dollar loss). He subsequently got the second dose, and after quarantine tested negative. Now, he was tested prior to the Olympics, positive, and can't compete. WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON? Nothing in my knowledge of virology and epidemiology would suggest that this is even possible----a person who has had BOTH the disease AND fully vaccinated can get the disease again. This suggest there is either something very wrong with the test or with the vaccine. Since almost all the "new" cases are among the unvaccinated, I suspect the test is overly sensitive with a huge false positive rate.

I couldn't have said it any better...

I opined, weeks ago, that something was f*cky with the tests...

[tuccillo]

I suspect there is a good possibility that the false positive rate of the tests is greater than the true positive rate of the virus in a random sample of people (asymptomatic people). Under those conditions, random testing has limited value.

I couldn't have said it any better...

I opined, weeks ago, that something was f*cky with the tests...

[DARFAP]

Get vaxed. Stop this nonsense of misleading news.

[Topspinmo]

Either it will "just disappear" next April. Or it will surge and mutate, in which case we may be heading into the next world wide depression as the government runs out of money and can't borrow anymore to keep the economy afloat.

Or IF we are really lucky and we are living in a real world and not a make believe world. Doctors will find effective vaccines as fast as the virus mutates. The government will take decisive steps and mandate vaccinations for everyone.

But, that is just my silly opinion. Since the pandemic is actually fake, like we have been told - it probably doesn't matter. We will see soon enough. And our grandkids will pay for our decisions.

Working on get the post shut down I see with all pol——- B$.

[coffeebean]

But it's even worse than that. By even considering the vaccinated "mask up" (idiotic term IMHO), they are essentially stating that they do not believe in the effectiveness of the vaccine. If they did, they would state that the vaccinated never need to wear a mask, never need to socially distance, and never need a COVID test. After all, the vaccine should prevent you from getting and transmitting the disease. Yes, yes, there is the CDC stated 0.007% (1 in 13,000) breakthrough rate, but that is miniscule.
And the every other day testing of the MLB teams and the Olympic athletes is ridiculous. Do we test our children for polio, diphtheria, measles, or rubella EVERY OTHER DAY after they get vaccinated? And if we did, what might we find? Do we test adults, even those that work in nursing homes, EVERY OTHER DAY for seasonal influenza after they've been vaccinated? NO, we just give the vaccine and pretty much forget about it
So therefore, I have absolutely no idea what "the powers that be" are thinking

And one more thing----John Rahm. Here is a pro golfer who tested positive about 3-4 months ago, was quarantined, then tested negative and returned to the tour. About 6 weeks ago he was exposed to a "case" of COVID (whether this means a sick person or just another "positive" test, who knows). He got the first dose of the vaccine, was tested every day at the following tournament, and then tested positive again, had to withdraw with a 6 shot lead (about a 2 million dollar loss). He subsequently got the second dose, and after quarantine tested negative. Now, he was tested prior to the Olympics, positive, and can't compete. WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON? Nothing in my knowledge of virology and epidemiology would suggest that this is even possible----a person who has had BOTH the disease AND fully vaccinated can get the disease again. This suggest there is either something very wrong with the test or with the vaccine. Since almost all the "new" cases are among the unvaccinated, I suspect the test is overly sensitive with a huge false positive rate.

I have no knowledge of immunology or anything else to do with vaccines but, I have always thought these Covid tests are, as you said, overly sensitive and give way too many false positive results.

I've also been reading quite a bit about the fact that testing positive after being fully vaccinated does NOT mean the individual is infected with the virus. All it means is there is some virus that was picked up by the test but the body has not launched its immune response which will be forthcoming to knock out the virus.

GE......is that correct information?

[coffeebean]

I really doubt those who chose not to get the vaccine care if you wear a mask or not. Seriously.


Then......they truly have no clue what is going on with this virus and the Delta variant. CLUELESS!!!!

[coffeebean]

While I don't want to accuse them of thinking, one possibility is they are taking human (American) nature and reality into account.

I was recently in an area with a very large outdoor crowd. The stated policy there, as I believe it is most everywhere, is that unvaccinated people should be wearing masks. I don't have an accurate count but the number of masks I saw were in the dozens with about half being worn anywhere near correctly. Either the vaccination rate in that population was about 98% or the unvaccinated were ignoring the mask policy. My guess is the latter.

*IF* masking makes any difference at all and if you want the unvaccinated to wear masks then the only way to make that happen is to force everyone to wear a mask. Otherwise, experience shows that unvaccinated will take off their masks too.

I don't like it, I don't agree with it, I don't want to have to deal with it, but it might be what the powers that be are "thinking."

There is already plenty of disdain for the un-vaxxed. If it comes down to mask mandates for everyone (never here in Florida though), there will be many more confrontations and divisiveness in our country. We are not heading in a good direction with this.

[golfing eagles]

I have no knowledge of immunology or anything else to do with vaccines but, I have always thought these Covid tests are, as you said, overly sensitive and give way too many false positive results.

I've also been reading quite a bit about the fact that testing positive after being fully vaccinated does NOT mean the individual is infected with the virus. All it means is there is some virus that was picked up by the test but the body has not launched its immune response which will be forthcoming to knock out the virus.

GE......is that correct information?

Pretty much. They might have been tested before the immune system had a chance to confer full immunity. Or the test may be picking up viral fragments from previous exposure or even possibly the spike protein that the vaccine codes for.

This is why I wish the "media" would define a "case". Is this a sick person? Is this a person capable of transmitting the virus? Or is this just a "positive test", and just what does that mean?

And of course this also begs the question----why test any vaccinated individual at all???? If we believe the vaccine is extremely efficacious, there is no need. There is no need for masks or social distancing, but there is a tremendous need to get as many vaccinated as possible

[drducat]

There is already plenty of disdain for the un-vaxxed. If it comes down to mask mandates for everyone (never here in Florida though), there will be many more confrontations and divisiveness in our country. We are not heading in a good direction with this.

Agree :a040: Unfortunately that only touches the tip of the main problem.....

[coffeebean]

Yes and as I mentioned before...vaccinated still contract and spread the virus with no symptoms....along with..yes variants.

:popcorn:

True. But.....the vaccinated are not getting sick and dying. The un-vaxxed are the people who are dying. So, I repeat. Why should the vaccinated have to mask up to protect those who do not want to protect themselves?

[coffeebean]

The spike proteins are the culprit and not the actual virus so...what does the jab do again??? Oh wait!

After all that has been said and informed about these vaccines, you REALLY have to ask that question?

[drducat]

Pretty much. They might have been tested before the immune system had a chance to confer full immunity. Or the test may be picking up viral fragments from previous exposure or even possibly the spike protein that the vaccine codes for.

This is why I wish the "media" would define a "case". Is this a sick person? Is this a person capable of transmitting the virus? Or is this just a "positive test", and just what does that mean?

And of course this also begs the question----why test any vaccinated individual at all???? If we believe the vaccine is extremely efficacious, there is no need. There is no need for masks or social distancing, but there is a tremendous need to get as many vaccinated as possible

Testing vaccinated people is due to the fact that the vaccine is only a bandaid and gives only partial short term immunity.

[golfing eagles]

Testing vaccinated people is due to the fact that the vaccine is only a bandaid and gives only partial short term immunity.

Really????

I believe others have called you out before.

Perhaps you would share your credentials to make these statements?

[drducat]

After all that has been said and informed about these vaccines, you REALLY have to ask that question?

My point is.....spike proteins which the vax tells your body to manufacture by the trillions is a toxic poison....think about that for a minute.

[golfing eagles]

My point is.....spike proteins which the vax tells your body to manufacture by the trillions is a toxic poison....think about that for a minute.

Care to cite a reference that supports the assertion that the spike protein is "a poison"????? I'm afraid we all will have a very long wait.

[coffeebean]

Pretty much. They might have been tested before the immune system had a chance to confer full immunity. Or the test may be picking up viral fragments from previous exposure or even possibly the spike protein that the vaccine codes for.

This is why I wish the "media" would define a "case". Is this a sick person? Is this a person capable of transmitting the virus? Or is this just a "positive test", and just what does that mean?

And of course this also begs the question----why test any vaccinated individual at all???? If we believe the vaccine is extremely efficacious, there is no need. There is no need for masks or social distancing, but there is a tremendous need to get as many vaccinated as possible

You bring to light valid questions. We need answers and soon. Thank you.

[drducat]

Care to cite a reference that supports the assertion that the spike protein is "a poison"????? I'm afraid we all will have a very long wait.

Just one....many more...this has been common knowledge for a long time.


Research: COVID-19 and Inflammation | Cedars-Sinai (https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/computer-model-shows-how-covid-19-could-lead-to-runaway-inflammation/)

[drducat]

Really????

I believe others have called you out before.

Perhaps you would share your credentials to make these statements?

Reality is no one knows how long the immunity will last since it does not go deep enough to T-cell immunity.

[drducat]

I am not anti-vax at all....as long as it is safe and I know what is in it.

[coffeebean]

Testing vaccinated people is due to the fact that the vaccine is only a bandaid and gives only partial short term immunity.

It has not been established yet just how short or long term these vaccines will protect us. Some reports say at least 6 months so far and other reports say we may never need a booster. That leaves somewhere in between but no one really knows as of yet.

You mention "partial immunity". The initial trial efficacy of these mRNA vaccines was pretty darn high and they remain pretty darn high in real life efficiency. Did you expect 100%? I didn't.

[drducat]

I am not anti-vax at all....as long as it is safe and I know what is in it.

Also I am having trouble trusting the CDC these days along with FDA and AMA is out to lunch and has been for a while now. The WHO is off the rails.

[billethkid]

Testing vaccinated people is due to the fact that the vaccine is only a bandaid and gives only partial short term immunity.

Wow!?!
Would you mind sharing the sources/data/links/et al that back up such statements.

[coffeebean]

My point is.....spike proteins which the vax tells your body to manufacture by the trillions is a toxic poison....think about that for a minute.

Holy $h!t. I could be dead now. But.......I'm still here. LOL.

[John41]

There are 64,600 illegal immigrants entering the country each month since January. The vast majority are unvaccinated. Does the government require these individuals to get the shot or be turned back and out of the country?

30% of the illegal immigrants are refusing the vaccine yet get transported throughout the states to seed Covid.

[stanley]

30% of the illegal immigrants are refusing the vaccine yet get transported throughout the states to seed Covid.

Stop with your conspiracy crap.............................says the "vaxers"...(baaaaa)

[Bill14564]

There are 64,600 illegal immigrants entering the country each month since January. The vast majority are unvaccinated. Does the government require these individuals to get the shot or be turned back and out of the country?

30% of the illegal immigrants are refusing the vaccine yet get transported throughout the states to seed Covid.

So which is it? Is it that "the vast majority are unvaccinated" or is it that only "30% of the illegal immigrants are refusing the vaccine?"

How are they able to "seed Covid" if they are first tested and quarantined before they "get transported throughout the states?"

Are the immigrants being transported to Florida? If not, how are they contributing to the topic of this thread?

Yeah I know, a lot of questions, but it's better to ask questions than claim knowledge while spreading misinformation.

[dtennent]

Just one....many more...this has been common knowledge for a long time.


Research: COVID-19 and Inflammation | Cedars-Sinai (https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/computer-model-shows-how-covid-19-could-lead-to-runaway-inflammation/)

The article you referenced deals with patients who have contracted COVID 19, not people who were vaccinated. Can you provide a study that addresses people who have been vaccinated? Furthermore, the article is about computer simulations. While these are useful in designing experiments, they are not proof positive for the conclusion you have drawn.

As for my credentials, I have Ph.D. In chemistry and spent my career in R&D. I have worked with computer modelers to work through scenarios but always counted on the data from actual experiments to draw conclusions.

[drducat]

The article you referenced deals with patients who have contracted COVID 19, not people who were vaccinated. Can you provide a study that addresses people who have been vaccinated? Furthermore, the article is about computer simulations. While these are useful in designing experiments, they are not proof positive for the conclusion you have drawn.

As for my credentials, I have Ph.D. In chemistry and spent my career in R&D. I have worked with computer modelers to work through scenarios but always counted on the data from actual experiments to draw conclusions.

Someone knows this...What is the difference between the Spike Protein from the actual virus and from the vaccine...anyone?

[Swoop]

I find it interesting that the same people who are quick to point out the high number of positive tests in Florida, and blame it on those who haven’t been vaccinated are the same ones who claim the tests are to blame when the number of vaccinated positives far exceeds the CDC’s claims…
By the way, the seven day average Covid mortality rate in Florida is exactly the same as it was at the end of June…

[Bill14564]

I find it interesting that the same people who are quick to point out the high number of positive tests in Florida, and blame it on those who haven’t been vaccinated are the same ones who claim the tests are to blame when the number of vaccinated positives far exceeds the CDC’s claims…
By the way, the seven day average Covid mortality rate in Florida is exactly the same as it was at the end of June…

Wouldn't care about the number of positive tests except that the number of hospitalizations is tracking. The hospitalization are primarily unvaccinated.

Don't remember the CDC making a claim about positive tests, only hospitalizations and deaths. I believe those numbers are still in line with expectations.

That the number of deaths has remained flat is a very good thing but it feels too soon to counting chickens.

[Swoop]

Wouldn't care about the number of positive tests except that the number of hospitalizations is tracking. The hospitalization are primarily unvaccinated.

Don't remember the CDC making a claim about positive tests, only hospitalizations and deaths. I believe those numbers are still in line with expectations.

That the number of deaths has remained flat is a very good thing but it feels too soon to counting chickens.

The CDC stated a 0.007% (1 in 13,000) breakthrough rate.

[Bill14564]

The CDC stated a 0.007% (1 in 13,000) breakthrough rate.

1 in 13,000 what, positive tests? Or did they count 1 in 13,000 hospitalizations? I'll find that information tomorrow.

[GrumpyOldMan]

30% of the illegal immigrants are refusing the vaccine yet get transported throughout the states to seed Covid.

That 30% number is not official and is an internal heresay.

"Arriving migrants who test positive are being directed to local hotels for isolation, as Abbott and Democratic President Joe Biden fight over who is responsible for helping them."


Asked whether the governor had numbers on migrants with COVID-19 who have entered the U.S., Abbott spokesman Renae Eze offered a statement Wednesday: “Because the Biden Administration has refused to step up and do their job, we may never know the true total of COVID-positive illegal immigrants and the impact on our state and our country.”

So, while you can say positively without a doubt that 30% are, the Governor of Texas doesn't know how many.

Let's see, do I go with the Gov or with a rumor?

[John41]

So which is it? Is it that "the vast majority are unvaccinated" or is it that only "30% of the illegal immigrants are refusing the vaccine?"

How are they able to "seed Covid" if they are first tested and quarantined before they "get transported throughout the states?"

Are the immigrants being transported to Florida? If not, how are they contributing to the topic of this thread?

Yeah I know, a lot of questions, but it's better to ask questions than claim knowledge while spreading misinformation.

1. Of those illegal immigrants OFFERED the vaccine at the checkpoints 30% refuse. Most illegals sneak by the checkpoints and most if caught are just herded into holding pens and cages until they are transported around the country to unannounced specific locations.

2. At those locations the illegals spread the Covid Delta variant which first, no coincidence, appeared in South America where the illegals come from.

3. The illegals are being transported to Florida although the exact locations are not known. DeSantis is warning the feds that the deaths are on their hands.

[GrumpyOldMan]

1 in 13,000 what, positive tests? Or did they count 1 in 13,000 hospitalizations? I'll find that information tomorrow.

The 6,000 represents 0.007 percent of the 84 million who are fully inoculated.

BUT. It is 6,000 cases that were reported to the CDC. The head of the CDC said at the same time that it is expected that the number is underreported.

So, it is simply all they know from states reporting cases that have been positively identified.

Fewer than 6000 people have gotten covid-19 (https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/549027-fewer-than-6000-people-have-gotten-covid-19)

[golfing eagles]

Just one....many more...this has been common knowledge for a long time.


Research: COVID-19 and Inflammation | Cedars-Sinai (https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/computer-model-shows-how-covid-19-could-lead-to-runaway-inflammation/)

WOW!!! A patient can develop inflammation after a viral infection. Shocking, thank you Captain Obvious. And a study by "computer model" to boot! So we now need a computer to predict that a COVID patient could develop a post-viral polyarticular polyarthropathy, just like any other virus.

So, just what does this have to with the vaccines, and how does this equate with "poison"

[GrumpyOldMan]

1. Of those illegal immigrants OFFERED the vaccine 30% refuse. Most illegals sneak by the vaccination points and most if caught are just herded into holding pens and cages .until they are transported around the country to unannounced specific locations.

2. At those locations the illegals spread the Covid Delta variant which first, no coincidence, appeared in South America where the illegals come from.

3. The illegals are being transported to Florida although the exact locations are not known. DeSantis is warning the feds that the deaths are on their hands.

All three of these are not supported by fact-checking. The 30% number is an internal rumor and is not supported by data. There is no evidence that "illegals" are spreading the virus in any significant amount. The third is that the "illegals" are and have been relocated to holding facilities in all states. How many in Florida is not known. Could be 10, could be 10,000, could be 10 million. Those facilities are not in contact with the general public. Sort of non-voluntary isolation.

[John41]

That 30% number is not official and is an internal heresay.

"Arriving migrants who test positive are being directed to local hotels for isolation, as Abbott and Democratic President Joe Biden fight over who is responsible for helping them."


Asked whether the governor had numbers on migrants with COVID-19 who have entered the U.S., Abbott spokesman Renae Eze offered a statement Wednesday: “Because the Biden Administration has refused to step up and do their job, we may never know the true total of COVID-positive illegal immigrants and the impact on our state and our country.”

So, while you can say positively without a doubt that 30% are, the Governor of Texas doesn't know how many.

Let's see, do I go with the Gov or with a rumor?

Apples and orange. At the border checkpoints it is known that 30% of the illegals refuse vaccination. Of course overall most illegals especially the drug dealers and human traffickers do not go through the checkpoints and that is why correctly Gov Abbot is unsure of the total impact.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Apples and orange. At the border checkpoints it is known that 30% of the illegals refuse vaccination. Of course overall most illegals especially the drug dealers and human traffickers do not go through the checkpoints and that is why correctly Gov Abbot is unsure of the total impact.

Please provide a link to a reference. I could only find a reference that I provided that said specifically the number was not known but was nothing more than a rumor.

"it is known" is not proof.

[Topspinmo]

I keep hearing lately that vaccinated people are being asked to mask up to protect the un-vaccinated. Are they serious? They cannot be serious!!! They expect me to mask up to protect someone who is not willing to protect themselves?

Sorry about those who are not able to get vaccinated because of medical issues but they will just have to protect themselves when out in public.

Again.....asking a vaccinated person to protect the un-vaxxed? NOT HARDLY, IMHO.

It’s coming next week if not before.

[Topspinmo]

Please provide a link to a reference. I could only find a reference that I provided that said specifically the number was not known but was nothing more than a rumor.

"it is known" is not proof.


It’s not known cause nobody bean counting. And If they did if it was happy news it wouldn’t be reported.

[John41]

All three of these are not supported by fact-checking. The 30% number is an internal rumor and is not supported by data. There is no evidence that "illegals" are spreading the virus in any significant amount. The third is that the "illegals" are and have been relocated to holding facilities in all states. How many in Florida is not known. Could be 10, could be 10,000, could be 10 million. Those facilities are not in contact with the general public. Sort of non-voluntary isolation.

Who is your fact checker? Snopes? Wikipedia? NYT? WaPo? LOL
The 30% is verified at checkpoints where the govt collects data. The illegals are transported to various states then placed within the native community NOT held in cages there. The Delta variant came from South America where the illegals are from. 2+2=4.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I keep hearing lately that vaccinated people are being asked to mask up to protect the un-vaccinated. Are they serious? They cannot be serious!!! They expect me to mask up to protect someone who is not willing to protect themselves?

Sorry about those who are not able to get vaccinated because of medical issues but they will just have to protect themselves when out in public.

Again.....asking a vaccinated person to protect the un-vaxxed? NOT HARDLY, IMHO.

I feel 100% comfortable in asking everyone I come in contact with, if they've been vaccinated. If they say yes, then I don't have to wear a mask. If they say no, I get to put them on the defense and ask them why not.

If they don't tell me it's because they have allergies/immune disorder that prohibits them from vaccinating, then they can buy me a mask, and I'll wear it in their presence.

If they're not willing to pay for the mask they need me to wear, then THEY can go somewhere else.

If they're medically unable to vaccinate, I'll pull out my own mask and wear it, gladly to protect them.

[Topspinmo]

I feel 100% comfortable in asking everyone I come in contact with, if they've been vaccinated. If they say yes, then I don't have to wear a mask. If they say no, I get to put them on the defense and ask them why not.

If they don't tell me it's because they have allergies/immune disorder that prohibits them from vaccinating, then they can buy me a mask, and I'll wear it in their presence.

If they're not willing to pay for the mask they need me to wear, then THEY can go somewhere else.

If they're medically unable to vaccinate, I'll pull out my own mask and wear it, gladly to protect them.

I just stay away (out of personnel zone) from people I don’t know. Heck, I done that before the virus.

[Topspinmo]

So which is it? Is it that "the vast majority are unvaccinated" or is it that only "30% of the illegal immigrants are refusing the vaccine?"

How are they able to "seed Covid" if they are first tested and quarantined before they "get transported throughout the states?"

Are the immigrants being transported to Florida? If not, how are they contributing to the topic of this thread?

Yeah I know, a lot of questions, but it's better to ask questions than claim knowledge while spreading misinformation.


Nobody know the true amount of illegals enters country, they only know the total of ones the let in or caught and released.

[Swoop]

1 in 13,000 what, positive tests? Or did they count 1 in 13,000 hospitalizations? I'll find that information tomorrow.

1 in 13,000 - .007% of vaccinated people will get the virus according to the figures on the CDC’s website. But if those who are vaccinated, are typically asymptomatic with Covid, then they wouldn’t be tested. So how would they know that they had it? Only those who are tested regularly, regardless of symptoms, would more accurately portray the actual percentage of breakthrough cases. That’s what made the 20% positive results of the fully vaccinated NY Yankees so interesting…
And now is when those who want to blindly believe everything the CDC says, will blame those positives on faulty test results…
Whatever fits the narrative…

[John41]

Please provide a link to a reference. I could only find a reference that I provided that said specifically the number was not known but was nothing more than a rumor.

"it is known" is not proof.

An ICE official confirmed to Fox News that the vaccine declination rate in all ICE detention centers is 30%.

These illegals are in custody so ICE knows how many are refusing vaccination although that will fluctuate slightly day to day as new detainees arrive. You can also check other sources than FOX that do not lean conservative.

[Bill14564]

1 in 13,000 - .007% of vaccinated people will get the virus according to the figures on the CDC’s website. But if those who are vaccinated, are typically asymptomatic with Covid, then they wouldn’t be tested. So how would they know that they had it? Only those who are tested regularly, regardless of symptoms, would more accurately portray the actual percentage of breakthrough cases. That’s what made the 20% positive results of the fully vaccinated NY Yankees so interesting…
And now is when those who want to blindly believe everything the CDC says, will blame those positives on faulty test results…
Whatever fits the narrative…

If the 1:13,000 is based on data gathered when there had been only 84M vaccinated then it needs to be updated. I believe someone else has already pointed out that there were caveats given at the time.

I believe the initial trials of the vaccine defined cases as symptomatic or possibly even hospitalized in order to determine effectiveness. You can't prove those results wrong by redefining cases as positive test results.

It would be interesting to know what the hospitalization rate is among the vaccinated population. I believe the CDC is collecting that information now, I just don't have the interest in looking it up at the moment. EDIT: Actually, it was easier than I anticipated. As of July 19 the CDC has counted 5,914 hospitalizations or deaths out of 161M vaccinated people or about 1:27,000. Further, the notes on the CDC data suggest that many of these were asymptomatic and were only detected because the individuals were hospitalized for some other reason.

As for the 20%, there are two problems with drawing conclusions from that. One, those results are based on positive test results and not symptomatic illness and; two, the sample size is far too small. You can't look at non-random group of 30 people and draw a conclusion about 164M.

[Swoop]

If the 1:13,000 is based on data gathered when there had been only 84M vaccinated then it needs to be updated. I believe someone else has already pointed out that there were caveats given at the time.

I believe the initial trials of the vaccine defined cases as symptomatic or possibly even hospitalized in order to determine effectiveness. You can't prove those results wrong by redefining cases as positive test results.

It would be interesting to know what the hospitalization rate is among the vaccinated population. I believe the CDC is collecting that information now, I just don't have the interest in looking it up at the moment.

As for the 20%, there are two problems with drawing conclusions from that. One, those results are based on positive test results and not symptomatic illness and; two, the sample size is far too small. You can't look at non-random group of 30 people and draw a conclusion about 164M.

Breakthrough cases are fully vaccinated people who test positive for the virus. I agree just looking at just the Yankees is too small a sample size. But look at all professional athletes and their percentage of breakthrough cases. They are among the most tested people on the planet. And their breakthrough percentage far exceeds the CDC’s stated .007%.
Most people who have been vaccinated and have no symptoms will never be tested. So they will never know if they have Covid and are asymptotic. The bigger question is, how likely are they to spread the virus? That is still being looked into.

[Bill14564]

Breakthrough cases are fully vaccinated people who test positive for the virus. I agree just looking at just the Yankees is too small a sample size. But look at all professional athletes and their percentage of breakthrough cases. They are among the most tested people on the planet. And their breakthrough percentage far exceeds the CDC’s stated .007%.
Most people who have been vaccinated and have no symptoms will never be tested. So they will never know if they have Covid and are asymptotic. The bigger question is, how likely are they to spread the virus? That is still being looked into.

You really need to get beyond the 0.007%. The CDC did not claim that as a breakthrough rate, they reported the incomplete data they received (43 states and undercounted) and the result from that data was 0.007%. That data is now several months and 80M vaccinations old.

There are a few things we don't know:
- How many people would test positive if tested today
- How many people who test positive have a coronavirus infection and how many just have a detectable level of whatever the test looks for
- How many people who test positive are carrying enough virus to pass it to someone else

There is likely a large difference between having enough coronavirus in your airway to be detectable by a finely-tuned test and having enough coronavirus to be contagious. If the vaccination is successfully preventing the progression from detectable to contagious then we need to set the bar higher before we use the word "case."

[GrumpyOldMan]

It’s not known cause nobody bean counting.

True


And If they did if it was happy news it wouldn’t be reported.

Opinion.

[drducat]

Best chance of ending the pandemic is by natural immunity according to peer reviewed research.

persisting antibody responses and memory B and T cells (https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-3791(21)00203-2?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com %2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS2666379121002032%3Fshowall%3D true)

[Kelevision]

[QUOTE=Topspinmo;1978893]It’s not known cause nobody bean counting.

I love beans though they do give me gas. :coolsmiley:

[Kelevision]

Please provide a link to a reference. I could only find a reference that I provided that said specifically the number was not known but was nothing more than a rumor.

"it is known" is not proof.

I like you!! :MOJE_whot: :boxing2: Hearsay as fact drives me crazy.

[coffeebean]

The article you referenced deals with patients who have contracted COVID 19, not people who were vaccinated. Can you provide a study that addresses people who have been vaccinated? Furthermore, the article is about computer simulations. While these are useful in designing experiments, they are not proof positive for the conclusion you have drawn.

As for my credentials, I have Ph.D. In chemistry and spent my career in R&D. I have worked with computer modelers to work through scenarios but always counted on the data from actual experiments to draw conclusions.

Another conspiracy theory debunked. Thank you.

[coffeebean]

Someone knows this...What is the difference between the Spike Protein from the actual virus and from the vaccine...anyone?

I'll take a shot........

The spike protein is one component of the virus which allows the virus to attach itself to human cells.

[coffeebean]

It’s coming next week if not before.

Not here in Florida, especially from our governor who has referred to masks as "muzzles". I saw him say that with my own two eyes and my own two ears. What a buffoon!

As an aside...............I don't expect vaccinated people to have to mask up except where it is posted as required but un-vaxxed should be masking at this point when in public indoor spaces everywhere. Pipe dream, I know given the absolute disdain for masking by the anti-vaxxers.

[coffeebean]

I feel 100% comfortable in asking everyone I come in contact with, if they've been vaccinated. If they say yes, then I don't have to wear a mask. If they say no, I get to put them on the defense and ask them why not.

If they don't tell me it's because they have allergies/immune disorder that prohibits them from vaccinating, then they can buy me a mask, and I'll wear it in their presence.

If they're not willing to pay for the mask they need me to wear, then THEY can go somewhere else.

If they're medically unable to vaccinate, I'll pull out my own mask and wear it, gladly to protect them.

Anyone who is not able to be vaccinated for medical reasons needs to defend THEMSELVES when in public. THEY should be wearing an N95 mask to protect themselves. They should not be relying on vaccinated people to protect them by wearing a mask. I'm ALREADY protecting them by being vaccinated as I will not spread the virus to anyone with a minimal viral load if I happen to be infected. I am no threat to anyone who protects themselves with an N95 or equivalent mask. Also......those who cannot be vaccinated due to medical issues need to stay home where they can remain safe. Venture out of the house?.......wear an N95 mask.

I'M VACCINATED. That is one of the perks of being vaccinated. I know I'm cannot be a super spreader of this virus.

OBB.....I usually see eye to eye with you but not in this case.

[Swoop]

You really need to get beyond the 0.007%. The CDC did not claim that as a breakthrough rate, they reported the incomplete data they received (43 states and undercounted) and the result from that data was 0.007%. That data is now several months and 80M vaccinations old.

There are a few things we don't know:
- How many people would test positive if tested today
- How many people who test positive have a coronavirus infection and how many just have a detectable level of whatever the test looks for
- How many people who test positive are carrying enough virus to pass it to someone else

There is likely a large difference between having enough coronavirus in your airway to be detectable by a finely-tuned test and having enough coronavirus to be contagious. If the vaccination is successfully preventing the progression from detectable to contagious then we need to set the bar higher before we use the word "case."
So the CDC, the organization that is supposed to keep us updated on the virus and it’s trends are months behind? The number of breakthrough cases is climbing and yet it is going unreported by the CDC. The fact is, they made the decision to stop reporting the number of breakthrough cases…
One former medical professional on TOTV constantly refers to the CDC’s .007% number when defending the vaccine’s effectiveness. I have never seen you respond to his posts regarding the use of that figure…
We were told since the onset of the virus that you could still spread Covid even if you were asymptotic. That’s why it was so important to wear masks. Because you could have the virus and not know it, and still pass it on to others. So why wouldn’t that hold true for breakthrough cases??…

[justjim]

[QUOTE=Dana1963;1978670]We DON’t NEED NO STINKING MASKS. But Respiratory Ventilators work so much better.
Who would have thought this was going to happen?[/QUE]

If you are unvaccinated and decide to not wear a mask indoors and outdoors among large groups you sure are pushing the envelope toward catching Covid. “Herd immunity”is the goal and is within sight. Science has provided a way out from this pandemic if those that medically can will just do the right thing for the better good and get vaccinated.

[Bill14564]

So the CDC, the organization that is supposed to keep us updated on the virus and it’s trends are months behind? The number of breakthrough cases is climbing and yet it is going unreported by the CDC. The fact is, they made the decision to stop reporting the number of breakthrough cases…
One former medical professional on TOTV constantly refers to the CDC’s .007% number when defending the vaccine’s effectiveness. I have never seen you respond to his posts regarding the use of that figure…
We were told since the onset of the virus that you could still spread Covid even if you were asymptotic. That’s why it was so important to wear masks. Because you could have the virus and not know it, and still pass it on to others. So why wouldn’t that hold true for breakthrough cases??…

I have not yet found a page where the CDC calculates the 0.007% number. The data they provide as of 4/30 is 10,000 cases out of 101M vaccinations or 1:10,000. Their is a difference between reporting an observation at a particular time and demanding that future observations match the first.

The CDC says they have moved on. They stopped reporting positive test results due to the likelihood that the data they were receiving represented an undercount. Their page says they shifted focus to hospitalized and fatal cases to improve accuracy.

"why wouldn't that hold true for breakthrough cases" I am not an epidemiologist or medical professional, I do not play one on tv or in TV, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I can read and understand the English language, I can run a calculator, and I can usually make some sort of sense out of multiple sets of data. I don't have an authoritative answer to that question, only my guess.

My guess is that far fewer detectable "infections" are able to take hold and grow in a vaccinated person (detectable in a vaccinated person does not necessarily lead to contagious or symptomatic) though in a small number of cases (6,000 in 160M) they do. If my guess is correct then it makes sense to look for detectable "infections" in unvaccinated people since there is a good chance the infection will continue to grow but not in vaccinated people since there is reason to believe the infection will be stopped. That's my guess, my theory, but we'll have to wait for the right studies to come out to learn whether it happens to be correct.

[Boffin]

90232

[Tim C.]

and Mississippi is the #1 State in terms of rates of obesity. Alabama is #1 in terms of heart disease death rates. and DC has the highest murder rate!!

blah blah blah blah

[tuccillo]

That is not quite correct. Effective May 1, 2021, the CDC switched to identifying and investigating those breakthrough cases that result in hospitalization and death. For the hospitalized and dead, the breakthrough rate is approximately 0.004% (5914 out of 161 million as of July 19, 2021).

The previous reporting period, Jan 1, 2021 to April 30, 2021, was not limited to only hospitalizations and death and saw 10262 breakthrough infections reported out of 101 million vaccinated people. This was a breakthrough rate of 0.01% but is probably undercounted. Approximately 12% of those were hospitalized or died.

COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html)

So the CDC, the organization that is supposed to keep us updated on the virus and it’s trends are months behind? The number of breakthrough cases is climbing and yet it is going unreported by the CDC. The fact is, they made the decision to stop reporting the number of breakthrough cases…
One former medical professional on TOTV constantly refers to the CDC’s .007% number when defending the vaccine’s effectiveness. I have never seen you respond to his posts regarding the use of that figure…
We were told since the onset of the virus that you could still spread Covid even if you were asymptotic. That’s why it was so important to wear masks. Because you could have the virus and not know it, and still pass it on to others. So why wouldn’t that hold true for breakthrough cases??…

[Bill14564]

Best chance of ending the pandemic is by natural immunity according to peer reviewed research.

persisting antibody responses and memory B and T cells (https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-3791(21)00203-2?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com %2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS2666379121002032%3Fshowall%3D true)

That is not the conclusion of the paper.

[stanley]

I feel 100% comfortable in asking everyone I come in contact with, if they've been vaccinated. If they say yes, then I don't have to wear a mask. If they say no, I get to put them on the defense and ask them why not.
.

First, if you "ask" me if I've been vaccinated, I will tell you none of your f'n business. You could deduce by that that I have not. Yes, that's what it's coming down to


If they don't tell me it's because they have allergies/immune disorder that prohibits them from vaccinating, then they can buy me a mask, and I'll wear it in their presence.


Second, why would "you" need to wear a mask "if" you are vaccinated? Seems like a lot of the "vaccinated" are having doubts about the effectiveness of it. And how exactly would you make someone buy you a mask?



If they're not willing to pay for the mask they need me to wear, then THEY can go somewhere else.


Third, how exactly are you going to make "ME" "go somewhere else"?


If they're medically unable to vaccinate, I'll pull out my own mask and wear it, gladly to protect them.

And fourth, I refer you to this;


If they don't tell me it's because they have allergies/immune disorder that prohibits them from vaccinating, then they can buy me a mask, and I'll wear it in their presence.
.

You make no sense.

[dtennent]

Best chance of ending the pandemic is by natural immunity according to peer reviewed research.

persisting antibody responses and memory B and T cells (https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-3791(21)00203-2?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com %2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS2666379121002032%3Fshowall%3D true)

That is not the conclusion of this paper. It only discussed patients who had mild to moderate response to Covid 19 and the decay of immune system responses to the virus. It did not include anyone who had been vaccinated. In fact the last sentence of the introduction says

"This investigation will also serve as a benchmark for immune memory induced in humans by SARS-CoV-2 vaccines."

Good news is that you have moved to referencing papers instead of press releases. The bad news is that you have extrapolated beyond what their data set allows.

[Irishmen]

The single most contributing factor is that almost all new cases are those not vaccinated. The hospitalization and deaths will follow those numbers.

Requiring those who are already protected/vaccinated to mask up and social distance again accomplishes what?
The number not vaccinated isn't going to change significantly.
The number not masking up is not likely to change either.

As long as the decision makers continue dance around of the reality of the un-vaccinated pandemic...it can only get worse.

same cases determined by PCR test the CDC quietly pulled last Friday.

[Irishmen]

Not here in Florida, especially from our governor who has referred to masks as "muzzles". I saw him say that with my own two eyes and my own two ears. What a buffoon!

As an aside...............I don't expect vaccinated people to have to mask up except where it is posted as required but un-vaxxed should be masking at this point when in public indoor spaces everywhere. Pipe dream, I know given the absolute disdain for masking by the anti-vaxxers.

What is the size of the virus in microns compared to the size of microns a cloth disposable mask capable of filtering?

[coffeebean]

So the CDC, the organization that is supposed to keep us updated on the virus and it’s trends are months behind? The number of breakthrough cases is climbing and yet it is going unreported by the CDC. The fact is, they made the decision to stop reporting the number of breakthrough cases…
One former medical professional on TOTV constantly refers to the CDC’s .007% number when defending the vaccine’s effectiveness. I have never seen you respond to his posts regarding the use of that figure…
We were told since the onset of the virus that you could still spread Covid even if you were asymptotic. That’s why it was so important to wear masks. Because you could have the virus and not know it, and still pass it on to others. So why wouldn’t that hold true for breakthrough cases??…

Everything I have read and heard from expert doctors on my television claim that vaccinated people do not have enough viral load to infect others, vaxxed or un-vaxxed. Isn’t this why CDC guidelines for vaccinated people state they do not have to quarantine after an exposure to a KNOWN Covid positive person UNLESS they are symptomatic for Covid. That means a vaccinated person is no threat to anyone unless they are symptomatic for Covid.

I have not seen or heard that this guideline has changed. If it has, will someone kindly post a link to the new guideline. Thanks.

[coffeebean]

What is the size of the virus in microns compared to the size of microns a cloth disposable mask capable of filtering?

The virus does not travel by itself. The virus is encapsulated in droplets and/or aerosols. Those droplets and aerosols are HUGE compared to the minuscule size of the virus. THIS is why universal masking with NON N95 masks are effective for source control. Those non N95 masks are not effective for protecting the wearer. Hasn’t this been established already for well over a year? Why in the world are we even discussing this at this point in time of this pandemic? Oh, I know. It is because of your comment about the size of the virus particles.

[billethkid]

The elephant in the room is how to get/force vax/mask compliance??? Won't happen in the permissive everything world of today!

Let the non vax pandemic seek it's own level of acceptable new cases/hospitalizations/deaths.

There is no sense what so ever in appealing to the vaccinated to mask up to help protect those who will not get the vax or mask up to help themselves!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

What is the size of the virus in microns compared to the size of microns a cloth disposable mask capable of filtering?

Unless you plan on spitting ONTO a mask, it really doesn't matter what size they are. The point of the mask is to reduce risk, not become an impenetrable barrier against moisture.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The elephant in the room is how to get/force vax/mask compliance??? Won't happen in the permissive everything world of today!

Let the non vax pandemic seek it's own level of acceptable new cases/hospitalizations/deaths.

There is no sense what so ever in appealing to the vaccinated to mask up to help protect those who will not get the vax or mask up to help themselves!

Virii mutate when they have a sizeable segment of hosts with which to mutate. The more people who are vaccinated, the smaller the segment of hosts. The smaller the segment of hosts, the less likely the virus is capable of surviving long enough to mutate at all.

And the less likely it is to mutate, the more likely vaccinated people are to not get the new mutated virus, which the vaccine is NOT created to combat.

[jimjamuser]

Yes and as I mentioned before...vaccinated still contract and spread the virus with no symptoms....along with..yes variants.

:popcorn:
A very small % happens like that. Too small to even mention or affect anyone's decision whether or not to get the vaccine. Perfection can NOT be expected from ANY vaccine.

[jimjamuser]

There is already plenty of disdain for the un-vaxxed. If it comes down to mask mandates for everyone (never here in Florida though), there will be many more confrontations and divisiveness in our country. We are not heading in a good direction with this.
Florida brought this "covid capital distinction" on itself. We have become the nation's laughingstock.

[stanley]

Florida brought this "covid capital distinction" on itself. We have become the nation's laughingstock.

Ya think the MSM helped just a little bit?:pray:

[Boomer]

I am tired of the incubators who walk among us.

I am tired of those who will not apply simple risk vs. benefit thinking to their vaccine decision. (Yes. I am capable of making exceptions for those who cannot take the risk because of certain medical conditions.)

I am tired of those who cannot seem to comprehend that we protect children by vaccinating adults. Why do adults who refuse to be vaccinated for no real reason not realize they are robbing children of their childhoods?

I am tired of Facebook Zombies who think they are so much smarter than us vaccinated people — and so much smarter than doctors and scientists. (Of course, there are the “doctors and scientists” who are making big bucks by reeling them in.)

I am tired of churches that actually discourage vaccinating, whether it be outright or insidious anti-vaccine messages. . .

If they think they can pray away the virus, they need to hear that old joke about the guy who dies and asks God why he did not save him from drowning when he prayed to be rescued. God answered him, saying, “ Geez, who do you think sent the guy on the shore with the rope, and then the boat and then the helicopter?”

I am tired of thinking about how insurance premiums are going to become even more ridiculous to cover the cost of vaccine deniers who get sick. We all know insurance companies do not lose money. (Check their stocks if you do not believe me.)

I am tired of seeing that our economy is going to suffer extensively from this thing that is so obviously preventable. But as long as there are those who are allowing themselves to be played as pawns in the game of power, we’re all going to be hit economically, in one way or another.

And I am tired of a year-plus of wearing a mask — that could start all over. This upcoming possibility of going back to that is like one of those stupid class-punishments that some teachers use. (I taught secondary ed for a hundred years and never, ever used one of those.)

I am tired of the fact that Pogo was absolutely right.

I gotta get outa here now and do something useful. Why oh why can’t I stop looking at these threads. . .

Boomer

[stanley]

I am tired of the incubators who walk among us.

I am tired of those who will not apply simple risk vs. benefit thinking to their vaccine decision. (Yes. I am capable of making exceptions for those who cannot take the risk because of certain medical conditions.)

I am tired of those who cannot seem to comprehend that we protect children by vaccinating adults. Why do adults who refuse to be vaccinated for no real reason not realize they are robbing children of their childhoods?

I am tired of Facebook Zombies who think they are so much smarter than us vaccinated people — and so much smarter than doctors and scientists. (Of course, there are the “doctors and scientists” who are making big bucks by reeling them in.)

I am tired of churches that actually discourage vaccinating, whether it be outright or insidious anti-vaccine messages. . .

If they think they can pray away the virus, they need to hear that old joke about the guy who dies and asks God why he did not save him from drowning when he prayed to be rescued. God answered him, saying, “ Geez, who do you think sent the guy on the shore with the rope, and then the boat and then the helicopter?”

I am tired of thinking about how insurance premiums are going to become even more ridiculous to cover the cost of vaccine deniers who get sick. We all know insurance companies do not lose money. (Check their stocks if you do not believe me.)

I am tired of seeing that our economy is going to suffer extensively from this thing that is so obviously preventable. But as long as there are those who are allowing themselves to be played as pawns in the game of power, we’re all going to be hit economically, in one way or another.

And I am tired of a year-plus of wearing a mask — that could start all over. This upcoming possibility of going back to that is like one of those stupid class-punishments that some teachers use. (I taught secondary ed for a hundred years and never, ever used one of those.)

I am tired of the fact that Pogo was absolutely right.

I gotta get outa here now and do something useful. Why oh why can’t I stop looking at these threads. . .

Boomer

You're not the only one that's tired!

[jimjamuser]

True. But.....the vaccinated are not getting sick and dying. The un-vaxxed are the people who are dying. So, I repeat. Why should the vaccinated have to mask up to protect those who do not want to protect themselves?
The question that you ask brings up an age-old, deep philosophic question - "are we our brother's keeper"? Many of the UNvaccinated are young people that feel invulnerable to pain and death. Society has a responsibility to educate young people and spare them any chance of experiencing unnecessary CV pain and death. In the wild most mammals like deer, bears, and dogs protect their young. Human behavior can be more complex and not governed by instinct. And in the current situation, people can be overwhelmed by the cross-currents of information and misinformation.

[drducat]

Another conspiracy theory debunked. Thank you.

They must not have understood the part about spike protein toxicity...hardly debunked. That is why it was posted.

[coffeebean]

Breakthrough cases are fully vaccinated people who test positive for the virus. I agree just looking at just the Yankees is too small a sample size. But look at all professional athletes and their percentage of breakthrough cases. They are among the most tested people on the planet. And their breakthrough percentage far exceeds the CDC’s stated .007%.
Most people who have been vaccinated and have no symptoms will never be tested. So they will never know if they have Covid and are asymptotic. The bigger question is, how likely are they to spread the virus? That is still being looked into.
Let's just do a hypothetical......Let's say every single vaccinated person on the planet can still spread Covid if they get infected. Of those vaccinated people who become infected, hospitalizations and death of those vaccinated infected people are minuscule compared to the total amount of fully vaccinated people.

So.....any "smart" un-vaccinated person should make a B-line to the nearest vaccination center and get themselves vaccinated. I said "smart" but don't know how "smart" they are if they aren't vaccinated yet.That Delta variant is sure to get ya. LOL.

[jimjamuser]

Also I am having trouble trusting the CDC these days along with FDA and AMA is out to lunch and has been for a while now. The WHO is off the rails.
Middle school children engage in "name-calling" because it is quick and makes them feel powerful and relevant. But, they are incapable of a REASONED, intelligent argument. They eventually become ignored by their peers.

[GrumpyOldMan]

The question that you ask brings up an age-old, deep philosophic question - "are we our brother's keeper"? Many of the UNvaccinated are young people that feel invulnerable to pain and death. Society has a responsibility to educate young people and spare them any chance of experiencing unnecessary CV pain and death. In the wild most mammals like deer, bears, and dogs protect their young. Human behavior can be more complex and not governed by instinct. And in the current situation, people can be overwhelmed by the cross-currents of information and misinformation.

I absolutely agree.

I believe we have responsibilities as members of our society to each do our part to help our "herd" survive and prosper. We all seem to be willing to accept the benefits of living in this country, but it seems some are not willing to do their part as a member.

Personally, I blame the internet for most of our issues around this. For the first time in history, anyone no matter what expertise they have can instantly reach an audience of literally billions, and make money doing it - lots of money. It would help if everyone would quit clicking on clickbait and quit viewing blogs and youtube videos of influencers.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Middle school children engage in "name-calling" because it is quick and makes them feel powerful and relevant. But, they are incapable of a REASONED, intelligent argument. They eventually become ignored by their peers.

Often the use of name-calling and extreme positions is to gain recognition and validation. Internet trolls for decades have thrived on the validation they get from their peer group. Not for the accuracy of their comments, but for the vitriol and over-the-top comments.

[stanley]

Middle school children engage in "name-calling" because it is quick and makes them feel powerful and relevant. But, they are incapable of a REASONED, intelligent argument. They eventually become ignored by their peers.

Middle School children also have a better understanding of what's written in a comment, Nobody called anyone names.

Where in this quote is the name calling?

Originally Posted by drducat View Post
Also I am having trouble trusting the CDC these days along with FDA and AMA is out to lunch and has been for a while now. The WHO is off the rails.

[stanley]

Often the use of name-calling and extreme positions is to gain recognition and validation. Internet trolls for decades have thrived on the validation they get from their peer group. Not for the accuracy of their comments, but for the vitriol and over-the-top comments.

Again...where is the name calling in that comment that I quoted?
Too much "misinformation............baaaaaa

[coffeebean]

The elephant in the room is how to get/force vax/mask compliance??? Won't happen in the permissive everything world of today!

Let the non vax pandemic seek it's own level of acceptable new cases/hospitalizations/deaths.

There is no sense what so ever in appealing to the vaccinated to mask up to help protect those who will not get the vax or mask up to help themselves!


Vaccinated people don't need to mask up to help themselves. They are protected from becoming ill and protected from death. Now, the immunocompromised may need to mask up because they don't usually achieve the level of protection of people with normal immune systems. The immunocompromised vaccinated people need to mask up to protect themselves......not the people with a strong response to the vaccines.

[jimjamuser]

30% of the illegal immigrants are refusing the vaccine yet get transported throughout the states to seed Covid.
I dislike ANY illegal immigrants coming to OUR country. But, as far as the 30% that refuse vaccination. That should not be TOO surprising because 30% of the regular residents of OUR country, also, refuse to be vaccinated. Both groups are going to weaken America and both outrage me.

[coffeebean]

Virii mutate when they have a sizeable segment of hosts with which to mutate. The more people who are vaccinated, the smaller the segment of hosts. The smaller the segment of hosts, the less likely the virus is capable of surviving long enough to mutate at all.

And the less likely it is to mutate, the more likely vaccinated people are to not get the new mutated virus, which the vaccine is NOT created to combat.


Really? Where have you heard, read or seen that our current mRNA vaccines do not protect against the Delta variant or any other variant for that matter? That is not what I have heard, read or seen on my television being informed my the specialists and doctors. In fact, the only information I have received about the Delta variant is that the mRNA vaccines are protective against this Delta variant. THIS is the reason the American people are being told that we do not need a booster at this point in time. The drug companies are considering a booster for those vaccinated people who are immunocompromised and have not had a robust response from the vaccine.

Has anyone heard any differently?

[coffeebean]

Florida brought this "covid capital distinction" on itself. We have become the nation's laughingstock.

Buffoonery Inc.

[coffeebean]

Ya think the MSM helped just a little bit?:pray:
MSM tells it like it is. You don't see MSM passing on conspiracy theories. THAT is why they are main stream. Get it?

[jimjamuser]

So which is it? Is it that "the vast majority are unvaccinated" or is it that only "30% of the illegal immigrants are refusing the vaccine?"

How are they able to "seed Covid" if they are first tested and quarantined before they "get transported throughout the states?"

Are the immigrants being transported to Florida? If not, how are they contributing to the topic of this thread?

Yeah I know, a lot of questions, but it's better to ask questions than claim knowledge while spreading misinformation.
The part about Florida IS easily explained. The unvaccinated illegals, even if NOT sent to Florida, could contact and infect someone coming to Florida. Say a truck driver or tourist. There is NO protected bubble over Florida. Like it or NOT, we ALL live in ONE big country and even just ONE big world.

[coffeebean]

I am tired of the incubators who walk among us.

I am tired of those who will not apply simple risk vs. benefit thinking to their vaccine decision. (Yes. I am capable of making exceptions for those who cannot take the risk because of certain medical conditions.)

I am tired of those who cannot seem to comprehend that we protect children by vaccinating adults. Why do adults who refuse to be vaccinated for no real reason not realize they are robbing children of their childhoods?

I am tired of Facebook Zombies who think they are so much smarter than us vaccinated people — and so much smarter than doctors and scientists. (Of course, there are the “doctors and scientists” who are making big bucks by reeling them in.)

I am tired of churches that actually discourage vaccinating, whether it be outright or insidious anti-vaccine messages. . .

If they think they can pray away the virus, they need to hear that old joke about the guy who dies and asks God why he did not save him from drowning when he prayed to be rescued. God answered him, saying, “ Geez, who do you think sent the guy on the shore with the rope, and then the boat and then the helicopter?”

I am tired of thinking about how insurance premiums are going to become even more ridiculous to cover the cost of vaccine deniers who get sick. We all know insurance companies do not lose money. (Check their stocks if you do not believe me.)

I am tired of seeing that our economy is going to suffer extensively from this thing that is so obviously preventable. But as long as there are those who are allowing themselves to be played as pawns in the game of power, we’re all going to be hit economically, in one way or another.

And I am tired of a year-plus of wearing a mask — that could start all over. This upcoming possibility of going back to that is like one of those stupid class-punishments that some teachers use. (I taught secondary ed for a hundred years and never, ever used one of those.)

I am tired of the fact that Pogo was absolutely right.

I gotta get outa here now and do something useful. Why oh why can’t I stop looking at these threads. . .

Boomer
Boomer said a mouthful. So right on target.

[coffeebean]

The question that you ask brings up an age-old, deep philosophic question - "are we our brother's keeper"? Many of the UNvaccinated are young people that feel invulnerable to pain and death. Society has a responsibility to educate young people and spare them any chance of experiencing unnecessary CV pain and death. In the wild most mammals like deer, bears, and dogs protect their young. Human behavior can be more complex and not governed by instinct. And in the current situation, people can be overwhelmed by the cross-currents of information and misinformation.

I'm not anyone's keeper but myself.

[jimjamuser]

I find it interesting that the same people who are quick to point out the high number of positive tests in Florida, and blame it on those who haven’t been vaccinated are the same ones who claim the tests are to blame when the number of vaccinated positives far exceeds the CDC’s claims…
By the way, the seven day average Covid mortality rate in Florida is exactly the same as it was at the end of June…
The mortality rate is a lagging statistic. The number of cases is a leading indicator of DEATHS!

[stanley]

MSM tells it like it is. You don't see MSM passing on conspiracy theories. THAT is why they are main stream. Get it?

Riddle me this then Joker......
Why doesn't Fauchi agree to be interviewed on
...........um......more .........um.......Conservative
News media?

[GrumpyOldMan]

I'm not anyone's keeper but myself.

But, you use our roads drink our water, flush your toilets into our sewers, count on our fire department, rely on our police force, and on and on.

But, you don't have any responsibilities, only privelges.

[coffeebean]

They must not have understood the part about spike protein toxicity...hardly debunked. That is why it was posted.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.............

Fact Check-No evidence spike proteins from COVID-19 vaccines are toxic | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-safe/fact-check-no-evidence-spike-proteins-from-covid-19-vaccines-are-toxic-idUSL2N2NX1J6)

[jimjamuser]

WOW!!! A patient can develop inflammation after a viral infection. Shocking, thank you Captain Obvious. And a study by "computer model" to boot! So we now need a computer to predict that a COVID patient could develop a post-viral polyarticular polyarthropathy, just like any other virus.

So, just what does this have to with the vaccines, and how does this equate with "poison"
Agree with you. And why are some people so zealously spreading misinformation? Are they paid by some foreign organization? Have they swallowed a propaganda pill? These are the questions that I find so strange and UNAmerican!!!!!!

[coffeebean]

Riddle me this then Joker......
Why doesn't Fauchi agree to be interviewed on
...........um......more .........um.......Conservative
News media?

Here is an interview Dr. Faucci did with Cavuto on FOX.........
Dr. Fauci: Masks may not be needed in 2022 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/rg8-liqn5dU)

[coffeebean]

But, you use our roads drink our water, flush your toilets into our sewers, count on our fire department, rely on our police force, and on and on.

But, you don't have any responsibilities, only privelges.

Of course I have responsibilities. I was replying to someone about wearing masks to protect people who are not vaccinated. THAT is what I was referring to. I'M VACCINATED so I'm already doing my part to protect others. I'm not their keeper beyond that when it comes to this virus.

[tvbound]

Riddle me this then Joker......
Why doesn't Fauchi agree to be interviewed on
...........um......more .........um.......Conservative
News media?

My guess is that he's just tired of arguing with people who eschew science, are incapable of changing their view based on the latest scientific information and prefer to live in an alternate reality - where a certain demographic tells them what and how to think. Just my guess though.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Florida is recording more COVID-19 cases than any other U.S. state, as hospitalizations in some areas increase at the fastest rate since the start of the pandemic.

The state accounts for one in five new infections in the U.S. and logged 73,181 cases over the past week, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Florida had 341 cases per 100,000 people over the past week, second only to Louisiana. The weekly total of new cases reported by Florida jumped more than fourfold between July 1 and July 22, reaching its highest point since mid-January.

Deaths in Florida totaled 319 over the past week, the most among states, with a rate of 1.5 per 100,000 people, the fourth-highest, according to the CDC.

Epidemiologists say various factors are at play: large numbers of unvaccinated people, a relaxation of preventive measures like mask-wearing and social distancing, the spread of the highly contagious Delta variant of the coronavirus and the congregation of people indoors during hot summer months.

Remember non vaccinated includes those with natural immunity after having COVID and those under age 12, as well as those who choose not to be vaccinated.

[jimjamuser]

Breakthrough cases are fully vaccinated people who test positive for the virus. I agree just looking at just the Yankees is too small a sample size. But look at all professional athletes and their percentage of breakthrough cases. They are among the most tested people on the planet. And their breakthrough percentage far exceeds the CDC’s stated .007%.
Most people who have been vaccinated and have no symptoms will never be tested. So they will never know if they have Covid and are asymptotic. The bigger question is, how likely are they to spread the virus? That is still being looked into.
I heard a Doctor that is an expert in that field state on TV that an asymptomatic breakthrough vaccinated person IS CAPABLE of spreading CV to the UNvaccinated. To him, it seemed LIKELY. I have heard other Doctors state that it is UNLIKELY. CV is in its infancy and therefore knowledge about it is also in its infancy. Unfortunately, this allows for BOTH factual information and propaganda to be published in media like Facebook. Each of us individually must decide where and who we put our trust in. As we see from the posts the majority of us are struggling with an overload of true and false information. It has divided friends and families and is a sad chapter in US modern history!

[golfing eagles]

They must not have understood the part about spike protein toxicity...hardly debunked. That is why it was posted.

"Inflammation" and "toxicity" are two very different things

[tvbound]

"overload of true and false information"



The good news being, that it becomes easier by the day to determine who are the blatant liars, conspiracy spreaders and purveyors of disinformation. So at least there's that.

[stanley]

Here is an interview Dr. Faucci did with Cavuto on FOX.........
Dr. Fauci: Masks may not be needed in 2022 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/rg8-liqn5dU)

Cavuto was never known for hard core interviews,that one is no exception. Fox, as a whole, has gone more left coast since the election, and I havn't taken it seriously since

[drducat]

"Inflammation" and "toxicity" are two very different things

True...and Inflammation cause or causes??

[drducat]

Of course I have responsibilities. I was replying to someone about wearing masks to protect people who are not vaccinated. THAT is what I was referring to. I'M VACCINATED so I'm already doing my part to protect others. I'm not their keeper beyond that when it comes to this virus.

Good thing your not here....

Higher COVID Rates Found In Some Counties With Higher Vaccination Rates – Why, And What It Says About The Delta Variant – CBS Sacramento (https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2021/07/26/covid-vaccination-california-counties/)

[drducat]

My opinion is...The vax is in trial...Some people are most likely receiving a placebo/saline is why vaccinated are getting infected so easily. Also why vaccinated are being asked to wear a mask.

[stanley]

"overload of true and false information"



The good news being, that it becomes easier by the day to determine who are the blatant liars, conspiracy spreaders and purveyors of disinformation. So at least there's that.

And exactly what does that do for you?

[billethkid]

We will learn from the CDC briefing at 3 PM today.
It is expected that those who are vaccinated mask up....again.

It will be interesting to see what local restaurants and businesses do.

If it were my business I would have a sign like I have seen in several places this week in TV......if you have been vaccinated wearing a mask is optional for you.....if you have not been vaccinated we "request" you wear a mask.....

and that is the way it should be.....the emphasis just has to be on those who are vulnerable...those not vaccinated....the ones currently flooding the hospitals.....if after all the warnings and coaxing and prodding they still do not get vaccinated they are by default agreeing to live with the results.....more cases/more hospitalizations/more deaths.......

Those of us who are vaccinated can do little or nothing to change the minds of these people......

requiring the vaccinated to mask up is useless eyewash, side steps the real problem and is stupid.

[jimjamuser]

Ya think the MSM helped just a little bit?:pray:
No, I honestly do NOT! The traditional TV channels can NOT concentrate on Florida and they can't put Florida down more than some other states - simply because their sponsors would not allow it - Florida has too large of a population. The late-night comedians DO have a tendency to lampoon "Florida Man", but it is basically good-natured humor. ALL TV channels call out situations in ALL states that they believe are worth bringing to the attention of their audiences. Controversy increases ratings for ALL TV channels.

Currently, Florida has 20% of the US cases, and at least one hospital is having as many CV patients as during the 1st big surge. That IS all scary stuff and IS a warning to the rest of America. So, the TV news MUST cover it.

[jimjamuser]

I am tired of the incubators who walk among us.

I am tired of those who will not apply simple risk vs. benefit thinking to their vaccine decision. (Yes. I am capable of making exceptions for those who cannot take the risk because of certain medical conditions.)

I am tired of those who cannot seem to comprehend that we protect children by vaccinating adults. Why do adults who refuse to be vaccinated for no real reason not realize they are robbing children of their childhoods?

I am tired of Facebook Zombies who think they are so much smarter than us vaccinated people — and so much smarter than doctors and scientists. (Of course, there are the “doctors and scientists” who are making big bucks by reeling them in.)

I am tired of churches that actually discourage vaccinating, whether it be outright or insidious anti-vaccine messages. . .

If they think they can pray away the virus, they need to hear that old joke about the guy who dies and asks God why he did not save him from drowning when he prayed to be rescued. God answered him, saying, “ Geez, who do you think sent the guy on the shore with the rope, and then the boat and then the helicopter?”

I am tired of thinking about how insurance premiums are going to become even more ridiculous to cover the cost of vaccine deniers who get sick. We all know insurance companies do not lose money. (Check their stocks if you do not believe me.)

I am tired of seeing that our economy is going to suffer extensively from this thing that is so obviously preventable. But as long as there are those who are allowing themselves to be played as pawns in the game of power, we’re all going to be hit economically, in one way or another.

And I am tired of a year-plus of wearing a mask — that could start all over. This upcoming possibility of going back to that is like one of those stupid class-punishments that some teachers use. (I taught secondary ed for a hundred years and never, ever used one of those.)

I am tired of the fact that Pogo was absolutely right.

I gotta get outa here now and do something useful. Why oh why can’t I stop looking at these threads. . .

Boomer
That was the most informative rant that I have heard in months. Thanks for your service TEACHING America's children. And that was a good point about children being condemned by unthinking adults. And for what goal did they commit this endangerment of children and US future?

[GrumpyOldMan]

A year and a half ago we were going around this tree. At that point, it was "no worse than the flu", "magically disappear in April", and on and on. And anyone who said, no it isn't was attacked, being called fear mongers for simply pointing out what experts said. And even today, some people are still saying it is no worse than the flu. No more people died from it than the flu, those numbers are just lies. And the beat goes on.

Some days I wonder how the human race survived this long.

[golfing eagles]

I heard a Doctor that is an expert in that field state on TV that an asymptomatic breakthrough vaccinated person IS CAPABLE of spreading CV to the UNvaccinated. To him, it seemed LIKELY. I have heard other Doctors state that it is UNLIKELY. CV is in its infancy and therefore knowledge about it is also in its infancy. Unfortunately, this allows for BOTH factual information and propaganda to be published in media like Facebook. Each of us individually must decide where and who we put our trust in. As we see from the posts the majority of us are struggling with an overload of true and false information. It has divided friends and families and is a sad chapter in US modern history!

Well, let's hope the "unlikely" expert is correct. If not, then from an epidemiological point of view, the vaccine would be useless. What good is a vaccine that allows the vaccinated to contract, and then spread the disease????? If it's only value is that the vaccinated are less likely to get seriously ill or die, that is actually counterproductive in the population as a whole since it allows people who would otherwise die to spread the disease. (but better for that individual)

[Boomer]

I am tired of the incubators who walk among us.

I am tired of those who will not apply simple risk vs. benefit thinking to their vaccine decision. (Yes. I am capable of making exceptions for those who cannot take the risk because of certain medical conditions.)

I am tired of those who cannot seem to comprehend that we protect children by vaccinating adults. Why do adults who refuse to be vaccinated for no real reason not realize they are robbing children of their childhoods?

I am tired of Facebook Zombies who think they are so much smarter than us vaccinated people — and so much smarter than doctors and scientists. (Of course, there are the “doctors and scientists” who are making big bucks by reeling them in.)

I am tired of churches that actually discourage vaccinating, whether it be outright or insidious anti-vaccine messages. . .

If they think they can pray away the virus, they need to hear that old joke about the guy who dies and asks God why he did not save him from drowning when he prayed to be rescued. God answered him, saying, “ Geez, who do you think sent the guy on the shore with the rope, and then the boat and then the helicopter?”

I am tired of thinking about how insurance premiums are going to become even more ridiculous to cover the cost of vaccine deniers who get sick. We all know insurance companies do not lose money. (Check their stocks if you do not believe me.)

I am tired of seeing that our economy is going to suffer extensively from this thing that is so obviously preventable. But as long as there are those who are allowing themselves to be played as pawns in the game of power, we’re all going to be hit economically, in one way or another.

And I am tired of a year-plus of wearing a mask — that could start all over. This upcoming possibility of going back to that is like one of those stupid class-punishments that some teachers use. (I taught secondary ed for a hundred years and never, ever used one of those.)

I am tired of the fact that Pogo was absolutely right.

I gotta get outa here now and do something useful. Why oh why can’t I stop looking at these threads. . .

Boomer



You're not the only one that's tired!


Hello, Stanley,

You must have read my post because you quoted it and then took the route of responding with a one-liner.

Too easy.

You say you are not the only one who is tired.

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with the things I am tired of?

I am interested in your reasons either way.

Point by point.

No links.

Just your own words.

I am serious. I really do want to know (specifically) what you think about my reasons for being tired of the vaccine deniers taking us all down -- down -- in so many, many ways.

Boomer

[jimjamuser]

I absolutely agree.

I believe we have responsibilities as members of our society to each do our part to help our "herd" survive and prosper. We all seem to be willing to accept the benefits of living in this country, but it seems some are not willing to do their part as a member.

Personally, I blame the internet for most of our issues around this. For the first time in history, anyone no matter what expertise they have can instantly reach an audience of literally billions, and make money doing it - lots of money. It would help if everyone would quit clicking on clickbait and quit viewing blogs and youtube videos of influencers.
Yes, "some are not willing to do their part". It seems that 10 or 20 % are either actively or UNKNOWINGLY engaged in splitting APART our hard-fought-for country. I often wonder what their possible motivations could be? CV was NOT the prime motivator, but it must have revealed undercurrents of social separation. The idea that "MY" tribe is more important than YOUR country.

Florida as the state with the biggest CV problem, may NOT have all the tools needed to solve the problem. The future of Floridians with its mismatches of communities and little sense of State alliance and over-diversification may NOT be as bright as its Sunshine State motto!

[Velvet]

Al Qaeda propaganda. Who benefits from people not being vaccinating in the US? Who benefits from Americans dying? Who benefits from American people living in fear of …. Covid vaccine?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Al Qaeda propaganda. Who benefits from people not being vaccinating in the US? Who benefits from Americans dying? Who benefits from American people living in fear of …. Covid vaccine?

Al Qaeda, Russia, China, N. Korea - the list is quite lengthy. And yet, any attempt to investigate and hold those accountable is met with pushback and biased rants.

[Ben Franklin]

I love the anti-vaxxers who say they aren't getting it because the FDA hasn't approved it. Don't most of those people hate government agencies? Why would they be concerned about the FDA approving it? Plus, FDA approved drugs have killed hundreds of thousands of people.

[jimjamuser]

Really? Where have you heard, read or seen that our current mRNA vaccines do not protect against the Delta variant or any other variant for that matter? That is not what I have heard, read or seen on my television being informed my the specialists and doctors. In fact, the only information I have received about the Delta variant is that the mRNA vaccines are protective against this Delta variant. THIS is the reason the American people are being told that we do not need a booster at this point in time. The drug companies are considering a booster for those vaccinated people who are immunocompromised and have not had a robust response from the vaccine.

Has anyone heard any differently?
Everything there IS true, but OrangeBB was referring NOT to the Delta variant - rather to future POSSIBLE more deadly variants due to incubation in the currently UNvaccinated. The unknown is more frightening and more difficult to deal with than the known - in the case of what could follow the Delta is a variant that could defeat our current vaccines. Then, a whole NEW class of vaccines may or MAY NOT be needed to fight these NEW variants. It could be a long war of "catch-up" for the vaccine Scientists!

[coffeebean]

Cavuto was never known for hard core interviews,that one is no exception. Fox, as a whole, has gone more left coast since the election, and I havn't taken it seriously since

Gee, I wonder why.

[coffeebean]

Reuters???? :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1 rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

You don't think Reuters is a reliable source?

About Reuters Fact Check (https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/about)

[coffeebean]

My opinion is...The vax is in trial...Some people are most likely receiving a placebo/saline is why vaccinated are getting infected so easily. Also why vaccinated are being asked to wear a mask.

Oh my goodness. You CANNOT really believe that! You have just lost every single bit of credibility you ever had with me. Actually, I have not seen one post you have written that I have taken any stock in. Buh bye.

[Irishmen]

Really????

I believe others have called you out before.

Perhaps you would share your credentials to make these statements?

See Israel with 3rd booster coming in most vaxxed country in the world followed by Trudeau ordering what amounts to 10 boosters per year for 2022 and 2023. Now you have to wear a mask again. If this doesn't equal short term immunity then nothing does.

[drducat]

You don't think Reuters is a reliable source?

About Reuters Fact Check (https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/about)

Joking right? As is AP...no wonder!

[coffeebean]

We will learn from the CDC briefing at 3 PM today.
It is expected that those who are vaccinated mask up....again.

It will be interesting to see what local restaurants and businesses do.

If it were my business I would have a sign like I have seen in several places this week in TV......if you have been vaccinated wearing a mask is optional for you.....if you have not been vaccinated we "request" you wear a mask.....

and that is the way it should be.....the emphasis just has to be on those who are vulnerable...those not vaccinated....the ones currently flooding the hospitals.....if after all the warnings and coaxing and prodding they still do not get vaccinated they are by default agreeing to live with the results.....more cases/more hospitalizations/more deaths.......

Those of us who are vaccinated can do little or nothing to change the minds of these people......

requiring the vaccinated to mask up is useless eyewash, side steps the real problem and is stupid.

Totally agree.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Everything there IS true, but OrangeBB was referring NOT to the Delta variant - rather to future POSSIBLE more deadly variants due to incubation in the currently UNvaccinated. The unknown is more frightening and more difficult to deal with than the known - in the case of what could follow the Delta is a variant that could defeat our current vaccines. Then, a whole NEW class of vaccines may or MAY NOT be needed to fight these NEW variants. It could be a long war of "catch-up" for the vaccine Scientists!

Look at the bright side, those scientists would learn so much and get so much smarter, all thanks to the anti-vaxers, at nothing more than a few "other people" dying.

(sarcasm)

[GrumpyOldMan]

Oh my goodness. You CANNOT really believe that! You have just lost every single bit of credibility you ever had with me. Actually, I have not seen one post you have written that I have taken any stock in. Buh bye.

I don't know, but I expect you are in the majority here.

[Bill14564]

See Israel with 3rd booster coming in most vaxxed country in the world followed by Trudeau ordering what amounts to 10 boosters per year for 2022 and 2023. Now you have to wear a mask again. If this doesn't equal short term immunity then nothing does.

Israel seems to be considering boosters on a case by case basis and I can't find anything about Canada ordering 10 boosters per year. Do you have a source for your claims?

Neither the Israel news not the masks have anything to do with short term immunity so I guess nothing does.

[GrumpyOldMan]

See Israel with 3rd booster coming in most vaxxed country in the world followed by Trudeau ordering what amounts to 10 boosters per year for 2022 and 2023. Now you have to wear a mask again. If this doesn't equal short term immunity then nothing does.

As much as many would like to say differently, we live in a global community now. Until the WORLD reaches herd immunity we are all in danger from new variants.

The plague in 1900 was spread around the world by a rat flea, A mutant variant somewhere else in the world could come here on a boat carrying rats. Or a mutant variant here could spread to the rest of the world. If you think our economy is hurting now, imagine if US products were BANNED for ports in all major countries because WE have a new variant that they have not a vaccine for.

All the "I am okay with my risk" individuals must not have any children or family that they care much about to not be willing to take a small risk (vaccination) to stop potentially very serious risks.

There have been 3 plague pandemics documented in history with the first two lasting for centuries - because back in the 10th century they did not understand how they were transmitted. Now we know, and yet, so many refuse to take steps known to work to stop it.

[drducat]

I don't know, but I expect you are in the majority here.

There is definitely a silent majority on here and it is not those posting.:popcorn:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'm fine with other people taking risks for themselves. If you want to walk across the street without looking both ways, and get hit by a car and die, oh well. Sucks to be you. I just hope the driver that wasn't able to stop in time doesn't get a ticket. It's not their fault you chose to play russian roulette with a 180+ horsepower engine.

The thing about the virus though, is that you're not playing russian roulette against yourself. It's more like you're playing spin the bottle, with a loaded gun. If that gun ends up pointed at someone else, you get to live, and they get to die. I don't think anyone likes that game, when the gun is pointed at them.

So go ahead and choose not to vaccinate. If it results in you continuing to be healthy, AND no one else gets sick from any mutated virus that you might possibly pass to someone else, then awesome.

But if it turns out you were positive for a mutated virus, and CHOSE not to vaccinate, and infected someone who ends up dead as a result, I hope they come after you. And I hope you spend the rest of your miserable life wishing you had chosen otherwise.

Yup I'm talking about a 1:1,000,000,000 chance of "you" being that person. As for myself, I'm not willing to end up being that person. I wouldn't want to live with the guilt. So I vaccinated to MINIMIZE RISK.

[Villageswimmer]

All I’m hearing about is masks. Is SD still a thing?

I always thought it was believed to be more effective than masks.

[jimjamuser]

Well, let's hope the "unlikely" expert is correct. If not, then from an epidemiological point of view, the vaccine would be useless. What good is a vaccine that allows the vaccinated to contract, and then spread the disease????? If it's only value is that the vaccinated are less likely to get seriously ill or die, that is actually counterproductive in the population as a whole since it allows people who would otherwise die to spread the disease. (but better for that individual)
Some small % of vaccinated people have a "breakout" situation where they are CARRIERS of CV without knowing it and they are asymptomatic. If testing were 100% available and 100% accurate we would know more about this situation, which will, hopefully, become more known in the future. Nevertheless, it does NOT invalidate the worth of vaccines at the macro, societywide level. It is more like a glitch in terms of overall public health. It means that the UNvaccinated have a slightly greater chance of getting CV because of these "breakthroughs". The UNvaccinated still have about the same HIGH chance of getting CV and the same chance of being an incubator environment for the VIRUS. Sports teams and the Olympics have more and better (I assume) testing than for most average people - so, they locate more "breakthroughs". These players spend more time closely together indoors than the average person. And they get more than average press. So, it could seem like "breakthroughs" are the rule and not the exception.

[drducat]

Some small % of vaccinated people have a "breakout" situation where they are CARRIERS of CV without knowing it and they are asymptomatic. If testing were 100% available and 100% accurate we would know more about this situation, which will, hopefully, become more known in the future. Nevertheless, it does NOT invalidate the worth of vaccines at the macro, societywide level. It is more like a glitch in terms of overall public health. It means that the UNvaccinated have a slightly greater chance of getting CV because of these "breakthroughs". The UNvaccinated still have about the same HIGH chance of getting CV and the same chance of being an incubator environment for the VIRUS. Sports teams and the Olympics have more and better (I assume) testing than for most average people - so, they locate more "breakthroughs". These players spend more time closely together indoors than the average person. And they get more than average press. So, it could seem like "breakthroughs" are the rule and not the exception.

The CDC is a little lost with Delta...Too early to tell anything about it.

[GrumpyOldMan]

All I’m hearing about is masks. Is SD still a thing?

I always thought it was believed to be more effective than masks.

That is still recommended, but is not always possible, especially inside.

[Irishmen]

Israel seems to be considering boosters on a case by case basis and I can't find anything about Canada ordering 10 boosters per year. Do you have a source for your claims?

Neither the Israel news not the masks have anything to do with short term immunity so I guess nothing does.
Canada buys 65M Pfizer booster shots for protection against COVID-19 variants – Abbotsford News (https://www.abbynews.com/news/canada-buys-65m-pfizer-booster-shots-for-protection-against-covid-19-variants/)

[Bill14564]

Canada buys 65M Pfizer booster shots for protection against COVID-19 variants – Abbotsford News (https://www.abbynews.com/news/canada-buys-65m-pfizer-booster-shots-for-protection-against-covid-19-variants/)

35M for next year and 30M for 2023 with an option for an additional 30M in each of those years and 60M in 2024.

Canada has about 35M citizens.

So one booster shot per citizen for each of the next two years. An option for a second booster for each of the next two years, and an option for two booster shots in 2024.

Not 10 boosters per year for 2022 and 2023.

Doesn't seem like a statement about short-term immunity. Planning for a yearly booster seems more like a conservative approach given the lack of knowledge of how long immunity will last.

[ROCKMUP]

I took the time to read the whole thread, what a train wreck.

OMG, people are dying ! Save the children ! Yep, every single moment in far larger numbers than this. From abuse, alcohol, opiates, heart disease, failed organs, diabetes, obesity and on and on.
Are you this worried about those deaths because this thread didn't read like that at all. It reads like a bunch of virtue signaling to help you sleep at night.
How horribly sad.

[Swoop]

I took the time to read the whole thread, what a train wreck.

OMG, people are dying ! Save the children ! Yep, every single moment in far larger numbers than this. From abuse, alcohol, opiates, heart disease, failed organs, diabetes, obesity and on and on.
Are you this worried about those deaths because this thread didn't read like that at all. It reads like a bunch of virtue signaling to help you sleep at night.
How horribly sad.

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[John41]

A NYT article reported that vaccine accessibility among lower income households is a major factor in their not getting vaccinated. These workers do not have the time off flexibility that 9 to 5 white collar workers do. Additionally some vaccines must be administered in groups of 10 and if there aren’t that many signed up the appointments are cancelled. According to the NYT radical antivaxers are a very small minority. Also those not yet vaccinated are becoming targets of hate by those vaccinated.

[Bill14564]

A NYT article reported that vaccine accessibility among lower income households is a major factor in their not getting vaccinated. These workers do not have the time off flexibility that 9 to 5 white collar workers do. Additionally some vaccines must be administered in groups of 10 and if there aren’t that many signed up the appointments are cancelled. According to the NYT radical antivaxers are a very small minority. Also those not yet vaccinated are becoming targets of hate by those vaccinated.

I'd like to read that article, can you post a link?

Having read a number of articles giving reasons/explanations for vaccine hesitancy, I'm skeptical that this is anything but the latest excuse.

[coffeebean]

A NYT article reported that vaccine accessibility among lower income households is a major factor in their not getting vaccinated. These workers do not have the time off flexibility that 9 to 5 white collar workers do. Additionally some vaccines must be administered in groups of 10 and if there aren’t that many signed up the appointments are cancelled. According to the NYT radical antivaxers are a very small minority. Also those not yet vaccinated are becoming targets of hate by those vaccinated.


Sad to say but it is only going to get worse when everyone will be required to mask up indoors. I still do not buy the fact that vaccinated people can spread this virus at any rate that would prompt the need for them to mask up. What happened to the claim that the viral load in a vaccinated person is not enough to be contagious to others. Has this Delta variant changed all that? I'm so dismayed.

[SkBlogW]

Sad to say but it is only going to get worse when everyone will be required to mask up indoors. I still do not buy the fact that vaccinated people can spread this virus at any rate that would prompt the need for them to mask up. What happened to the claim that the viral load in a vaccinated person is not enough to be contagious to others. Has this Delta variant changed all that? I'm so dismayed.

Perhaps you know more about this than the Director of the CDC?

Answers are in the Naughty antivaxxer refusenicks thread.

[coffeebean]

Perhaps you know more about this than the Director of the CDC?

Answers are in the Naughty antivaxxer refusenicks thread.

I did ask, "has this Delta variant changed all that?" I do not claim to know more than the Director of the CDC. Just very dismayed.

[SkBlogW]

I did ask, "has this Delta variant changed all that?" I do not claim to know more than the Director of the CDC. Just very dismayed.

True, but you also said "I don't buy it"

[Bucco]

I did ask, "has this Delta variant changed all that?" I do not claim to know more than the Director of the CDC. Just very dismayed.

“The change in guidance was driven by the delta variant's higher transmissibility and new evidence from the CDC that in rare cases, fully vaccinated individuals who get infected with the variant can spread the virus just as easily as unvaccinated people.

"This new science is worrisome and unfortunately warrants an update to our recommendations," CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said Tuesday in a news briefing.”

Experts back CDC change on masks as delta variant spreads (https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/experts-back-cdc-change-masks-delta-variant-spreads-rcna1526)

“The change was met with relief from experts who said masking up again is essential to combat the highly contagious delta variant.”

[golfing eagles]

I did ask, "has this Delta variant changed all that?" I do not claim to know more than the Director of the CDC. Just very dismayed.

Well, yes, the delta variant has changed the playing field.
However, the person who keeps posting that the vaccinated have HIGHER viral loads than the unvaccinated is plain wrong. The CDC termed the viral loads "indistinguishable" in each group. Not HIGHER. But regardless, that does not prove anything about transmissibility. And it certainly does not address transmissibility from one vaccinated person to another, which IMHO must be quite rare. And that's why making the vaccinated go back to masking is pretty much nonsense. As far as the CDC director goes, she is looking not just at the science, but the politics as well.

[SkBlogW]

Well, yes, the delta variant has changed the playing field.
However, the person who keeps posting that the vaccinated have HIGHER viral loads than the unvaccinated is plain wrong. The CDC termed the viral loads "indistinguishable" in each group. Not HIGHER. But regardless, that does not prove anything about transmissibility. And it certainly does not address transmissibility from one vaccinated person to another, which IMHO must be quite rare. And that's why making the vaccinated go back to masking is pretty much nonsense. As far as the CDC director goes, she is looking not just at the science, but the politics as well.

You keep saying this but what political advantage does it give them to reverse course on mask guidance for the vaccinated?

In my other thread I admitted to the mistake of saying higher instead of "as high as" but it really doesn't matter if the vaccinated are spreaders of delta.

Why would CDC/administration reverse course on mask policy for the vaccinated? To
convince more to vaccinate? :popcorn:

[golfing eagles]

You keep saying this but what political advantage does it give them to reverse course on mask guidance for the vaccinated?

In my other thread I admitted to the mistake of saying higher instead of "as high as" but it really doesn't matter if the vaccinated are spreaders of delta.

Why would CDC/administration reverse course on mask policy for the vaccinated? To
convince more to vaccinate? :popcorn:

Best guess-----to make wearing a mask enforceable. Clearly, the unvaccinated are not following the recommendation to wear a mask, and can easily hide in a group that is 1/2 masked and 1/2 unmasked. Even at shows here in the Villages, where 7-800 are attending at the Savannah Center, only a dozen or so are masked. While we do have a pretty high percentage of vaccinated persons, I doubt it is 98% so even here the unvaccinated are going without masks. Which I suppose makes sense since anyone who doesn't want the vaccine is unlikely to voluntarily wear a mask if they can get away with it.

If they make a recommendation for all to mask, it makes the persons without a mask obvious. Of course that means that the vaccinated are being unnecessarily "punished" because of the actions of the anti-vaxxers.

[tvbound]

My opinion is...The vax is in trial...Some people are most likely receiving a placebo/saline is why vaccinated are getting infected so easily. Also why vaccinated are being asked to wear a mask.

I'm definitely adding that one, to my ever-expanding list of 'wackiest conspiracy theories ever.' Thanks!

[golfing eagles]

My opinion is...The vax is in trial...Some people are most likely receiving a placebo/saline is why vaccinated are getting infected so easily. Also why vaccinated are being asked to wear a mask.

Didn't i see that on an episode of "The Twilight Zone". Or was it "The Outer Limits". In either case that theory belongs on "Fantasy Island"

[GrumpyOldMan]

Didn't i see that on an episode of "The Twilight Zone". Or was it "The Outer Limits". In either case that theory belongs on "Fantasy Island"

:bigbow:
:1rotfl:
:clap2:

[coffeebean]

True, but you also said "I don't buy it"

Yes, I did and I still don't buy it. It's going to take a lot more to convince me that fully vaccinated people, especially with mNRA vaccines, have a high enough viral load of this Delta variant to make people ill.

[coffeebean]

“The change in guidance was driven by the delta variant's higher transmissibility and new evidence from the CDC that in rare cases, fully vaccinated individuals who get infected with the variant can spread the virus just as easily as unvaccinated people.

"This new science is worrisome and unfortunately warrants an update to our recommendations," CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said Tuesday in a news briefing.”

Experts back CDC change on masks as delta variant spreads (https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/experts-back-cdc-change-masks-delta-variant-spreads-rcna1526)

“The change was met with relief from experts who said masking up again is essential to combat the highly contagious delta variant.”

How RARE is RARE? I need an answer to that before I start masking up again in indoor public spaces when there is no sign posted or when it is only recommended.

[coffeebean]

Well, yes, the delta variant has changed the playing field.
However, the person who keeps posting that the vaccinated have HIGHER viral loads than the unvaccinated is plain wrong. The CDC termed the viral loads "indistinguishable" in each group. Not HIGHER. But regardless, that does not prove anything about transmissibility. And it certainly does not address transmissibility from one vaccinated person to another, which IMHO must be quite rare. And that's why making the vaccinated go back to masking is pretty much nonsense. As far as the CDC director goes, she is looking not just at the science, but the politics as well.

So, basically, the vaccinated are being asked to wear masks to protect those who refuse to be vaccinated. If that is what this is all about, I'm NOT on board with this new guidance for everyone to mask up indoors. Anti-vaxxers and hesitant vaxxers be damned and live or die with your own decision to not get the vaccine.

Those people who are unable to get vaccinated or are not eligible for vaccines should be either staying in their homes or wearing N95 masks when out and about. They need to protect themselves. Don't expect vaccinated people protect them forever by mask wearing. Sorry, I'm just not going to do that. I honestly feel I'm already doing a lot of protecting of others just by being vaccinated. That has not changed.

You know I was the mask queen and a proponent of masking BEFORE the advent of these life saving vaccines. My mask stance is changed now.

[jimjamuser]

Sad to say but it is only going to get worse when everyone will be required to mask up indoors. I still do not buy the fact that vaccinated people can spread this virus at any rate that would prompt the need for them to mask up. What happened to the claim that the viral load in a vaccinated person is not enough to be contagious to others. Has this Delta variant changed all that? I'm so dismayed.
Yes exactly, the viral load IS 1,000 times for the Delta variant versus the 2 prior variants in the US There is also a Columbia variant in South Florida, which I don't know how its viral load measures up? The overall problem IS that the CV situation IS NOT over and is NOT unchanging. It is in FLUX! And we humans have more mental INERTIA than the VIRUS has the ability to MUTATE. We humans need to become more flexible mentally as a society or we may go extinct before the VIRUS is brought under control.

And to prove that I am NOT exaggerating, I hope everyone realizes that we could have eliminated the problem of CV with only 300,000 US deaths if ONLY we believed in SCIENCE. We NEEDED a 95% vaccination rate. We missed that boat to NO masks, more freedom, happiness, and a stronger America.

[golfing eagles]

So, basically, the vaccinated are being asked to wear masks to protect those who refuse to be vaccinated. If that is what this is all about, I'm NOT on board with this new guidance for everyone to mask up indoors. Anti-vaxxers and hesitant vaxxers be damned and live or die with your own decision to not get the vaccine.

Those people who are unable to get vaccinated or are not eligible for vaccines should be either staying in their homes or wearing N95 masks when out and about. They need to protect themselves. Don't expect vaccinated people protect them forever by mask wearing. Sorry, I'm just not going to do that. I honestly feel I'm already doing a lot of protecting of others just by being vaccinated. That has not changed.

You know I was the mask queen and a proponent of masking BEFORE the advent of these life saving vaccines. My mask stance is changed now.

Unfortunately, that decision is up to the powers to be, and they likely have a political agenda as well as a medical one.

[jimjamuser]

Best guess-----to make wearing a mask enforceable. Clearly, the unvaccinated are not following the recommendation to wear a mask, and can easily hide in a group that is 1/2 masked and 1/2 unmasked. Even at shows here in the Villages, where 7-800 are attending at the Savannah Center, only a dozen or so are masked. While we do have a pretty high percentage of vaccinated persons, I doubt it is 98% so even here the unvaccinated are going without masks. Which I suppose makes sense since anyone who doesn't want the vaccine is unlikely to voluntarily wear a mask if they can get away with it.

If they make a recommendation for all to mask, it makes the persons without a mask obvious. Of course that means that the vaccinated are being unnecessarily "punished" because of the actions of the anti-vaxxers.
Yes, the vaccinated are being "punished" by the UNvaccinated! That could be shouted from the rooftops. And it may be TOO late. The VIRUS never stops. It may be mutating as we speak right here among the UNvaccinated of TV Land into a NEW variant that NO vaccine can stop. Why are we heaping SO MANY burdens on our young children? Clearly, the rewards for taking the vaccine VASTLY outweigh any small risk.

[jimjamuser]

How RARE is RARE? I need an answer to that before I start masking up again in indoor public spaces when there is no sign posted or when it is only recommended.
I have noticed that Florida sometimes does not follow Science.

[tuccillo]

This is nonsense. Only recently, 12 year and older were eligible for vaccination. Before that, the age cut off was 18 years old. About 25% of the US population is 18 or younger. You used the past tense (needed) - that was never going to happen with about 25% of the population ineligible to take the vaccination.


We NEEDED a 95% vaccination rate. We missed that boat to NO masks, more freedom, happiness, and a stronger America.

[tuccillo]

I love it when non scientists, such as yourself, talk about science.

I have noticed that Florida sometimes does not follow Science.

[Bucco]

Yes, the vaccinated are being "punished" by the UNvaccinated! That could be shouted from the rooftops. And it may be TOO late. The VIRUS never stops. It may be mutating as we speak right here among the UNvaccinated of TV Land into a NEW variant that NO vaccine can stop. Why are we heaping SO MANY burdens on our young children? Clearly, the rewards for taking the vaccine VASTLY outweigh any small risk.

In today’s world, worrying, caring, or planning for any Future takes a back seat to immediate “win” and satisfaction.

We have become a country of “showing everyone how “strong” we are”. The future consequences do not seem to matter.

[coffeebean]

Unfortunately, that decision is up to the powers to be, and they likely have a political agenda as well as a medical one.

Sad face.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

This is nonsense. Only recently, 12 year and older were eligible for vaccination. Before that, the age cut off was 18 years old. About 25% of the US population is 18 or younger. You used the past tense (needed) - that was never going to happen with about 25% of the population ineligible to take the vaccination.

"Recently" is subjective. The age minimum was changed on May 12. Parents have had well over two months to get their teenage kids vaccinated. In cities and suburbs, there's really no excuse not to. In rural areas there might be more difficulty getting TO a vaccine site, since there's no pharmacy just down the street. But then, in rural areas, there are fewer people. The vast majority of the American population resides in cities and suburbs. And THOSE folks have easy access to vaccines.

[Bucco]

Sad face.

You folks keep speaking to the subject that we are not to speak of, but remember......the Federal government can do nothing except wit those governed directly by federal, airports, etc. this they have done, and word is will step up further by requiring vaccines at federal level.

The goal on vaccinations was to be July 4, 24 days ago, and not sure what else they are to do.

Already many states have said there will be no cooperation, and on the federal level, suits are already in the mill.

While the anti government folks simply complain loudly and are pretty solid in stating their objection to anything that might contribute to slowing or stopping......

The only folks left to blame are the unvaccinated.

[GrumpyOldMan]

You folks keep speaking to the subject that we are not to speak of, but remember......the Federal government can do nothing except wit those governed directly by federal, airports, etc. this they have done, and word is will step up further by requiring vaccines at federal level.

The goal on vaccinations was to be July 4, 24 days ago, and not sure what else they are to do.

Already many states have said there will be no cooperation, and on the federal level, suits are already in the mill.

While the anti government folks simply complain loudly and are pretty solid in stating their objection to anything that might contribute to slowing or stopping......

The only folks left to blame are the unvaccinated.

True

[tuccillo]

Try to stay on point. I was referring to the comment that we needed to be at 95% vaccinated. I have no idea what time frame he was referring to with the word "needed". As I already pointed out, that was not a possibility, regardless of the timeframe. May was 2 months ago - certainly within the timeframe of "needed" ??? Those under 12 are still not eligible and make up about 14% of the population. The poster I was responding to regularly states all kinds of nonsense. Got it now?

"Recently" is subjective. The age minimum was changed on May 12. Parents have had well over two months to get their teenage kids vaccinated. In cities and suburbs, there's really no excuse not to. In rural areas there might be more difficulty getting TO a vaccine site, since there's no pharmacy just down the street. But then, in rural areas, there are fewer people. The vast majority of the American population resides in cities and suburbs. And THOSE folks have easy access to vaccines.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Try to stay on point. I was referring to the comment that we needed to be at 95% vaccinated. I have no idea what time frame he was referring to with the word "needed". As I already pointed out, that was not a possibility, regardless of the timeframe. May was 2 months ago - certainly within the timeframe of "needed" ??? Those under 12 are still not eligible and make up about 14% of the population. The poster I was responding to regular states all kinds of nonsense. Got it now?

Can you provide a link for that 95% number? I believe that was the requirement for Measles, it is an extremely contagious disease. I have not heard a percentage for COVID-19 yet. I think the numbers are still being crunched. If you have a source, I would seriously be interested in it.

[tuccillo]

I hope you are not directing this question to me. I am not the person who threw that number out there. I am the one who said it was unachievable because of the 25% of the population who weren't eligible for the vaccine. Ask the poster who threw out this nonsensical number. Go back and read the previous posts.

Can you provide a link for that 95% number? I believe that was the requirement for Measles, it is an extremely contagious disease. I have not heard a percentage for COVID-19 yet. I think the numbers are still being crunched. If you have a source, I would seriously be interested in it.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I hope you are not directing this question to me. I am not the person who threw that number out there. I am the one who said it was unachievable because of the 25% of the population who weren't eligible for the vaccine. Ask the poster who threw out this nonsensical number. Go back and read the previous posts.

No, it was reply to John41

[tvbound]

On one level, I couldn't care less if someone chooses not to be vaccinated, since it most likely won't directly affect my vaccinated self. HOWEVER, when over 90% of those occupying ICU beds due to Covid are those who have not been vaccinated, NOW there's a chance I or my loved ones/friends might be affected. A lot of people are dying, because there are no ICU beds available to perform other life-saving surgeries due to those selfish, gullible, unvaccinated people occupying those beds - while they slowly die. The sad cases are where those dying of Covid, are saying they've changed their minds and are now pleading with doctors to get the vaccine. It can't be easy for health care providers, to have to tell them - "sorry, it's too late for that."

[Boffin]

90249

[Irishmen]

True. But.....the vaccinated are not getting sick and dying. The un-vaxxed are the people who are dying. So, I repeat. Why should the vaccinated have to mask up to protect those who do not want to protect themselves?

Sorry you have lost your natural immunity forever and now you carry more of a viral load than those of us who realized the jab is not in a persons best interest. You are now a danger to society masks won't help us keep your virus away from rest of us.

[golfing eagles]

Sorry you have lost your natural immunity forever and now you carry more of a viral load than those of us who realized the jab is not in a persons best interest. You are now a danger to society masks won't help us keep your virus away from rest of us.

Please tell me you didn't post that nonsense. Or did I read it wrong? I certainly hope so, since it seems like you were posting that the vaccinated are less immune and carry more virus than the unvaccinated. Were you? If yes, go get an education. If no, so sorry, mea culpa.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Sorry you have lost your natural immunity forever and now you carry more of a viral load than those of us who realized the jab is not in a persons best interest.

Could you please explain this? It makes no sense at all. A link to some source supporting this. Otherwise, I gotta say it is the most nonsense I have read here so far.

[Boffin]

90250

[GrumpyOldMan]

90250

Yup, and brakes, and airbags, and seatbelts, and on and on.

I often wonder why so many are so resistant and I always seem to circle back to the topic we shall not name.

[Irishmen]

Please tell me you didn't post that nonsense. Or did I read it wrong? I certainly hope so, since it seems like you were posting that the vaccinated are less immune and carry more virus than the unvaccinated. Were you? If yes, go get an education. If no, so sorry, mea culpa.

Sorry you got scammed into destroying your natural immunity. DR Robert Malone, inventor of the mRNA technology used in jabs..."New data suggests that fully jabbed (Pfizer and Moderna) individuals are not just contracting COVID, but could be carrying higher levels of virus than previously understood. NBC ran with it as well. Head of CDC too in her recent mask policy. Its called Antibody-Dependent Enhancement or ADE. Bad day for humanity.

[Irishmen]

Could you please explain this? It makes no sense at all. A link to some source supporting this. Otherwise, I gotta say it is the most nonsense I have read here so far.

see previous post for 3 sources. Not sure if links to other sites permitted but you can find it easily. Sorry you got scammed too.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

I keep hearing lately that vaccinated people are being asked to mask up to protect the un-vaccinated. Are they serious? They cannot be serious!!! They expect me to mask up to protect someone who is not willing to protect themselves?

.
I thought it was because they believe the more prolific Delta variant can be transmitted easily to and from everyone, regardless of jab status. Meaning there's a heightened chance the vaccinated can fall ill (but still dodge hospitalization and death, thankfully).

[GrumpyOldMan]

see previous post for 3 sources. Not sure if links to other sites permitted but you can find it easily. Sorry you got scammed too.

First start with "Dr. Malone - inventor of the mRNA vaccine" is a false statement. And he was censored from YouTube for spreading misinformation.

Googling your other claims results in NO hits I could verify.

So, thanks for posting, as far as I can tell it is completely misinformation which if that is true, it contributing to people dying.

[Irishmen]

First start with "Dr. Malone - inventor of the mRNA vaccine" is a false statement. And he was censored from YouTube for spreading misinformation.

Googling your other claims results in NO hits I could verify.

So, thanks for posting, as far as I can tell it is completely misinformation which if that is true, it contributing to people dying.

No way you researched in 3 minutes. Typical Marxist behavior. You are now a super spreader. Sorry about your luck.

[GrumpyOldMan]

No way you researched in 3 minutes. Typical Marxist behavior. You are now a super spreader. Sorry about your luck.

You are right, I did not FULLY research this, I stopped after finding that you "expert" source is not what you claim and that they were censored for spreading dangerous misinformation, which you decided to propagate here.

Now you are calling me a Maxist! LOL!

Have fun, I am sorry you were duped Ito believing these lies. I hope you recover.

[Irishmen]

You are right, I did not FULLY research this, I stopped after finding that you "expert" source is not what you claim and that they were censored for spreading dangerous misinformation, which you decided to propagate here.

Now you are calling me a Maxist! LOL!

Have fun, I am sorry you were duped Ito believing these lies. I hope you recover.

from trusted CNBC or CNN you pick "Walensky said new data shows the variant behaves “uniquely differently from past strains of the virus,” indicating that some vaccinated people infected with the delta variant “may be contagious and spread the virus to others.” LOL stay home don't be a super spreader.

[GrumpyOldMan]

from trusted CNBC or CNN you pick "Walensky said new data shows the variant behaves “uniquely differently from past strains of the virus,” indicating that some vaccinated people infected with the delta variant “may be contagious and spread the virus to others.” LOL stay home don't be a super spreader.

That has NOTHING to do with your original post.

Here you just trying to stir the pot? DO you enjoy arguing and just don't care the impact your posts could have?

Wow.

I will leave you to others, I want nothing more to do with this exchange.

[fishon]

I’m avoiding the jab like the plague.

[Irishmen]

That has NOTHING to do with your original post.

Here you just trying to stir the pot? DO you enjoy arguing and just don't care the impact your posts could have?

Wow.

I will leave you to others, I want nothing more to do with this exchange.

Don't feel bad you destroyed your own bodies immune system. VAERS site was closed so many calling in to complain why they are jabbed but still contracting COVID with bas side affects. Best advise quarantine yourself immediately so you don't super spread to the rest of us.

[Irishmen]

I’m avoiding the jab like the plague.

Smart. Why does our gov't want to shut us down like tyrants they are for a virus 99% survival rate for most of public a little lower for elderly yet have Southern Border wide open no temperature checks no useless masks no anything poring into the inners of our country. Does this make any sense to anyone?

[golfing eagles]

That has NOTHING to do with your original post.

Here you just trying to stir the pot? DO you enjoy arguing and just don't care the impact your posts could have?

Wow.

I will leave you to others, I want nothing more to do with this exchange.

He clearly either has an agenda or a mental issue, his posts are nonsense
Why are either of us bothering to respond to this clown?????

[Bill14564]

I’m avoiding the jab like the plague.

For your sake, and the sake of those around you, I hope you are as successful in avoiding the plague (virus) as you are in avoiding the jab. Unless things change, there's a better than one in ten chance you won't be so lucky and better than one in 50 that you won't survive to talk about it.

[coffeebean]

Sorry you have lost your natural immunity forever and now you carry more of a viral load than those of us who realized the jab is not in a persons best interest. You are now a danger to society masks won't help us keep your virus away from rest of us.

Are you saying vaccinated people carry a higher viral load of the Delta variant than un-vaccinated people? How is this even possible? Where are you getting this information? Please provide your source.

EDIT: I have read a few more posts from this person and realize there is something completely lacking in this individual. I will no longer be responding to this person.

[coffeebean]

Please tell me you didn't post that nonsense. Or did I read it wrong? I certainly hope so, since it seems like you were posting that the vaccinated are less immune and carry more virus than the unvaccinated. Were you? If yes, go get an education. If no, so sorry, mea culpa.

GE.....I read it that way too. I'm scratching my head here.

[GrumpyOldMan]

GE.....I read it that way too. I'm scratching my head here.

The source has been banned/censored from multiple sites including YouTube for putting out dangerous misinformation. Not the poster here, but the poster here's quoted source.

[coffeebean]

Sorry you got scammed into destroying your natural immunity. DR Robert Malone, inventor of the mRNA technology used in jabs..."New data suggests that fully jabbed (Pfizer and Moderna) individuals are not just contracting COVID, but could be carrying higher levels of virus than previously understood. NBC ran with it as well. Head of CDC too in her recent mask policy. Its called Antibody-Dependent Enhancement or ADE. Bad day for humanity.

Oh my goodness. That ADE conspiracy was debunked MONTHS ago. What a crock of $h!t.

Read about it...........
Why ADE Hasn't Been a Problem With COVID Vaccines | MedPage Today (https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/91648)

[GrumpyOldMan]

Oh my goodness. That ADE conspiracy was debunked MONTHS ago. What a crock of $h!t.

Read about it...........
Where are you getting this information?

Yup, that is why I ignored him. It does no good to argue or discuss with some people.

I find it amazing that TOTV bans political conversations, and yet, allows proven dangerous misinformation. I don't think anyone ever died arguing about politics here.

[coffeebean]

First start with "Dr. Malone - inventor of the mRNA vaccine" is a false statement. And he was censored from YouTube for spreading misinformation.

Googling your other claims results in NO hits I could verify.

So, thanks for posting, as far as I can tell it is completely misinformation which if that is true, it contributing to people dying.

So true......misinformation is KILLING people. How do we make this stop?

[Boffin]

Misinformation is not killing people. However, there does seem to be a high correlation between ignorance and gullibility and people dying.

[lkagele]

I continue to read these posts. I find them interesting with a fair amount of good humor involved. Agree with some. Disagree with others. Still interesting.

What gets me is the lack of outrage at Communist China. It's obvious the virus originated there and probably as a result of a lab escape. No responsibility taken at all and, in fact, they are blaming the US. The rulers of that country are sinister, devious and evil. There should be accountability and a price for them to pay.

[coffeebean]

The source has been banned/censored from multiple sites including YouTube for putting out dangerous misinformation. Not the poster here, but the poster here's quoted source.

Got it. Thank you.

[coffeebean]

Yup, that is why I ignored him. It does no good to argue or discuss with some people.

I find it amazing that TOTV bans political conversations, and yet, allows proven dangerous misinformation. I don't think anyone ever died arguing about politics here.

Absolutely agree. I would be a money that most people that participate on TOTV can spot a troll and total off the wall misinformation such as this joker is posting.

[coffeebean]

Misinformation is not killing people. However, there does seem to be a high correlation between ignorance and gullibility and people dying.

Sorry, respectfully do not agree. Misinformation is most certainly KILLING people. Those are the people who are refusing to be vaccinated. That vaccine is a life saver so don't try to tell me people are not dying because of misinformation.

[John41]

Smart. Why does our gov't want to shut us down like tyrants they are for a virus 99% survival rate for most of public a little lower for elderly yet have Southern Border wide open no temperature checks no useless masks no anything poring into the inners of our country. Does this make any sense to anyone?

You are correct that allowing illegals to flood the country could be the cause of much of the increase in the delta variant. If the government were really serious about the delta variant they would close the border instead of seeding the country will new Covid cases. While we are vaxxed I respect the right of others to make their own decisions. The NYT recently had a story about the misinformation spread by the government at the top on the virus so we will do what they feel is best for us. A free market of ideas even ones we think ridiculous is best for democracy as it helps to develop critical thinking skills. If we have to rely on censors to think for us we are close to 1984.

[Boffin]

Sorry, respectfully do not agree. Misinformation is most certainly KILLING people. Those are the people who are refusing to be vaccinated. That vaccine is a life saver so don't try to tell me people are not dying because of misinformation.
It is interesting that we both seem to be expressing opinions based on anecdotal evidence. Which, in and of itself, is a form of misinformation.

[Boomer]

You are correct that allowing illegals to flood the country could be the cause of much of the increase in the delta variant. If the government were really serious about the delta variant they would close the border instead of seeding the country will new Covid cases. While we are vaxxed I respect the right of others to make their own decisions. The NYT recently had a story about the misinformation spread by the government at the top on the virus so we will do what they feel is best for us. A free market of ideas even ones we think ridiculous is best for democracy as it helps to develop critical thinking skills. If we have to rely on censors to think for us we are close to 1984.


Have you actually read Orwell’s 1984 ?

The reason I am asking is that invoking Orwell seems to be a thing now — but I don’t think those who like to throw his 1984 around can possibly have read the book because they have it bass akwards. But that’s a conversation for another time.

For now. . .blaming “news” about the border and about China will not solve the problem that is staring us square in the face. We need to deal with what we can.

Most of the vaccine-deniers are two-legged incubators, walking among us, babbling about their “freedom,” — while they are really just a bunch of freeloaders riding on those of us who have taken responsibility for doing what we can to wage war against the virus.

Boomer — who better get outa here before she tells them what she really thinks. . .

[Aces4]

Have you actually read Orwell’s 1984 ?

The reason I am asking is that invoking Orwell seems to be a thing now — but I don’t think those who like to throw his 1984 around can possibly have read the book because they have it bass akwards. But that’s a conversation for another time.

For now. . .blaming “news” about the border and about China will not solve the problem that is staring us square in the face. We need to deal with what we can.

Most of the vaccine-deniers are two-legged incubators, walking among us, babbling about their “freedom,” — while they are really just a bunch of freeloaders riding on those of us who have taken responsibility for doing what we can to wage war against the virus.

Boomer — who better get outa here before she tells them what she really thinks. . .


What you really think may be skewed. Vaccinated or not, it’s been found we all are incubators of Covid19, shots or not with that virus able to morph in our snouts. It may not last as long in the vaccinated but it can exist.

Per poster blueash, (a physician, I believe...)

“The new statement from the CDC reflects the new information on the behavior of the delta virus. Immunized people can be shedders for a period to the same degree as not-immunized people. Thus the recommendation for masks which as you have all been told over and over, do only a little. but not nothing, to protect the wearer and really are meant to protect others from the virus you may be unaware you are shedding.

No one, at least no responsible person who understands Covid, has said that vaccination does not make a difference. It saves lives and reduces morbidity. What it does not do well is prevent colonization with delta virus and shedding.

Thus the recommendation now, always subject to change as new data emerges, is get your shots, both doses to protect yourself from serious or fatal disease. And wear a mask especially indoors to protect others as you may be shedding delta virus even though you feel fine. Wear a mask means cover your nose and your mouth, not just your chin.”

At this point it appears this virus is here to stay and we should get on with living, time is short and don’t buy any green bananas, as they say..
__________________

[coffeebean]

What you really think may be skewed. Vaccinated or not, it’s been found we all are incubators of Covid19, shots or not with that virus able to morph in our snouts. It may not last as long in the vaccinated but it can exist.

Per poster blueash, (a physician, I believe...)

“The new statement from the CDC reflects the new information on the behavior of the delta virus. Immunized people can be shedders for a period to the same degree as not-immunized people. Thus the recommendation for masks which as you have all been told over and over, do only a little. but not nothing, to protect the wearer and really are meant to protect others from the virus you may be unaware you are shedding.

No one, at least no responsible person who understands Covid, has said that vaccination does not make a difference. It saves lives and reduces morbidity. What it does not do well is prevent colonization with delta virus and shedding.

Thus the recommendation now, always subject to change as new data emerges, is get your shots, both doses to protect yourself from serious or fatal disease. And wear a mask especially indoors to protect others as you may be shedding delta virus even though you feel fine. Wear a mask means cover your nose and your mouth, not just your chin.”

At this point it appears this virus is here to stay and we should get on with living, time is short and don’t buy any green bananas, as they say..
__________________

I do not agree with the mindset that I, fully vaccinated, must wear a mask to protect others. Anti-vaxxers, hesitant-vaxxers and even conscientious religious objector vaxxers ( a bunch of hooey if you ask me) can just PROTECT THEMSELVES. They should be wearing the masks in public (N95 or equivalent) to protect themselves. Those who can not take the vaccine because of medical reasons or those younger ones who are not eligible for the vaccine can wear masks too to protect themselves. Anyone not willing to wear a PROTECTIVE mask can just stay home.

The way I see it, anyone who is fully vaccinated is already doing their part to protect others. Vaccinated people have less of a chance of being contagious simply because they are less apt to become infected with the virus. So, there you go. Don't expect me to wear a mask to protect those who refuse to protect themselves.

[Boffin]

To each his own.

[Aces4]

I do not agree with the mindset that I, fully vaccinated, must wear a mask to protect others. Anti-vaxxers, hesitant-vaxxers and even conscientious religious objector vaxxers ( a bunch of hooey if you ask me) can just PROTECT THEMSELVES. They should be wearing the masks in public (N95 or equivalent) to protect themselves. Those who can not take the vaccine because of medical reasons or those younger ones who are not eligible for the vaccine can wear masks too to protect themselves. Anyone not willing to wear a PROTECTIVE mask can just stay home.

The way I see it, anyone who is fully vaccinated is already doing their part to protect others. Vaccinated people have less of a chance of being contagious simply because they are less apt to become infected with the virus. So, there you go. Don't expect me to wear a mask to protect those who refuse to protect themselves.

In the event you missed it, antivaxers don’t give a darn what you do, they don’t care if you’ll wear a mask. That’s your government calling those shots. The antivaxers will take their chances or have had Covid 19 already. Relax and do what you want and they will do what is their right. Reread Blueashes article, it appears you’re contagious whether or not you’ve been vaxed. What you may need to do is prepare for constant boosters if the efficacy is lost early.

[fishon]

For your sake, and the sake of those around you, I hope you are as successful in avoiding the plague (virus) as you are in avoiding the jab. Unless things change, there's a better than one in ten chance you won't be so lucky and better than one in 50 that you won't survive to talk about it.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Less than 1% die. Why are you spreading misinformation?
I had covid. I didn't get more than a head cold.
Obviously jab or die is a lie.
I have been tested and found positive for the antibodies.

Many, many people are in this category.
I don't want your experimental shot.
Evidence seems to be mounting that it is ineffective. Get the jab and still get covid? Still become a carrier? Sweet! Just as ineffective as masks.
There may be dire consequences of the shot come to light in the future.
No thanks.

[Two Bills]

Wife and I are in our 80's. and if we thought that catching the virus was just a bad dose of flu, we would have taken our chances and gone for the natural antibody route.
But.
When this virus first struck, the oldies were going down like flies, so when the vaccine came along, the sensible option for us was the vaccination.
Now the variants have arrived, and the vaccinated are getting the new Covid mutations, but nowhere near as many are in hospital, and definitely not as many dying.
So something is working.
Everyone has their own reason for their actions, and keep on banging the drum for any option is not going to change opinions now.
The whole subject is played out, repetitive, and so divisive.
Sad old world.

[Bill14564]

Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Less than 1% die. Why are you spreading misinformation?
I had covid. I didn't get more than a head cold.
Obviously jab or die is a lie.
I have been tested and found positive for the antibodies.

Many, many people are in this category.
I don't want your experimental shot.
Evidence seems to be mounting that it is ineffective. Get the jab and still get covid? Still become a carrier? Sweet! Just as ineffective as masks.
There may be dire consequences of the shot come to light in the future.
No thanks.

My numbers are not wrong and I have presented the calculations here many times already. Show me how you calculated that "less than 1% die" and we can discuss.

If you have already had Covid and survived then good for you. 611,000 people have not been as fortunate.

There may be dire consequences to many of the things I do. The virus was "designed" to kill us but sometimes it fails. The vaccine was designed to save us but sometimes it fails. To choose between those two seemed simple to me.

[tuccillo]

Actually, of confirmed cases, the death rate, overall, is running a bit under 2%, most recently in the US. You can, of course, argue about how deaths are recorded, false positive rates, etc., but if you are looking for a number, in this case from Johns Hopkins, the number is a bit under 2%. It, of course, varies considerably based on age and your overall health. If you are young and healthy, the number is small, very small. You, of course, already know this so I wonder why the apparent obsession with the number.

This topic continues to be belabored. Everything in life carries a risk. The vaccine carries a risk as does not getting vaccinated. Unless you believe in an extremely widespread conspiracy, the 3 vaccines available in the US will drive the probability (yes, probability, there are no guarantees) of a bad outcome (hospitalization and death) to very low numbers. Suggesting that the vaccine's effectiveness is the same as masks is just silly talk unless you can provide a peer reviewed study. Get the vaccine or don't get the vaccine but please stop whining about it.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Less than 1% die. Why are you spreading misinformation?
I had covid. I didn't get more than a head cold.
Obviously jab or die is a lie.
I have been tested and found positive for the antibodies.

Many, many people are in this category.
I don't want your experimental shot.
Evidence seems to be mounting that it is ineffective. Get the jab and still get covid? Still become a carrier? Sweet! Just as ineffective as masks.
There may be dire consequences of the shot come to light in the future.
No thanks.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

In the event you missed it, antivaxers don’t give a darn what you do, they don’t care if you’ll wear a mask. That’s your government calling those shots. The antivaxers will take their chances or have had Covid 19 already. Relax and do what you want and they will do what is their right. Reread Blueashes article, it appears you’re contagious whether or not you’ve been vaxed. What you may need to do is prepare for constant boosters if the efficacy is lost early.

That is actually not true. ANTI-vaxxers are a thing. They are AGAINST vaccines, and AGAINST anyone who chooses to vaccinate, or promote, encourage, or otherwise suggest that people vaccinate.

There's a restaurant in Huntington Beach, California with a sign on its window that proclaims customers must prove that they are NOT vaccinated in order to come in to dine, and that masks are NOT allowed on the premises.

I thought it was a clever sarcastic parody, until I saw an interview of the guy who owns the restaurant (Tony Roman). He's dead serious. He's even selling tee-shirts and bumper stickers with the Godfather graphic and the words "Leave the mask, take the cannoli."

He's not the only one in this country who has this sentiment, he's just the most newsworthy.