The NO-MASK thing was fun...while it lasted

[DeanFL]

.
.
I fully expect us, here in The Villages and much of the U.S. to go back to "masking up" indoors yet again. The new variant is surging rapidly according to the data, esp here in Florida. Here we go again.

1. We are fully Moderna vaccinated and would absolutely get a booster when available.
2. The only times we HAD to 'mask up' indoors in the last few months was a) in the doctor's office b) on the airplanes.
3. I am still furious that China got away with starting this whole matter. I'll leave it as that.

Are YOU ready to go back to the future with Covid??? grrrr.
.
.

[CFrance]

No! I'm really ticked. But along with China, I'm ticked off at the anti-vaxxers. The governor of Alabama said it all: Time to start blaming the unvaccinated.

The only mitigating circumstance for me personally is that I prefer outdoor exercise to indoor classes. But I was enjoying dining "in" the air conditioning.

[Clarinet]

This, according to CDC and other "knowledgeable" scientists would not even be happening if it weren't for the multitudes of people who don't intend to or haven't been vaccinated. I have yet to hear a good reason for this.

[Bay Kid]

Control. The govern loves control. They also like a distraction. But they could care less about Americans, like letting all those unvaccinated illegals just walk into our country for votes.

How many deaths from the flu in the past year?

[Love2Swim]

No! I'm really ticked. But along with China, I'm ticked off at the anti-vaxxers. The governor of Alabama said it all: Time to start blaming the unvaccinated.

The only mitigating circumstance for me personally is that I prefer outdoor exercise to indoor classes. But I was enjoying dining "in" the air conditioning.

I agree! :bigbow:

[golfing eagles]

No! I'm really ticked. But along with China, I'm ticked off at the anti-vaxxers. The governor of Alabama said it all: Time to start blaming the unvaccinated.

The only mitigating circumstance for me personally is that I prefer outdoor exercise to indoor classes. But I was enjoying dining "in" the air conditioning.

I'm afraid you are right. The delta variant in conjugation with the anti-vaxxers have sent us backward about a year. At this point COVID is essentially a pandemic of the unvaccinated, and I agree with the bean of my morning beverage that I am not here to protect others from themselves. Despite the new nasal carriage viral load studies, it is almost impossible for a vaccinated person to spread the virus to another vaccinated person.

About a year ago I was opposed to "vaccine passports", now I'm not so sure. The problem is that signs that ask you to wear a mask if not vaccinated created an "honor system", and our country is not as "honorable" as it once was. I guess it was foolish to expect that those who are irresponsible enough to refuse the vaccine would gladly continue to wear a mask. Two leading experts (if there are any) went as far as to state that we would not have this spike if only everyone was vaccinated OR the unvaccinated did as requested and continued to wear a mask indoors. So now the politicians will likely trip over themselves to make masks mandatory again, just to show how much "they care" about all the people.

The only unvaccinated group I have sympathy for are those that have medical reasons not to get vaccinated or a medical condition that makes it unlikely they will acquire immunity. But we can't make policy for 99.5% of the population for a small minority And just wait until the vaccine is approved for children---the same people that vaccinated their kids against polio, diphtheria, measles, mumps, rubella, etc. (because otherwise they could not go to school) will be objecting to the COVID vaccine. I suppose the die hard anti-vaxxers can home school their kids---kind of a blind leading the blind scenario.

[John41]

.
.
I fully expect us, here in The Villages and much of the U.S. to go back to "masking up" indoors yet again. The new variant is surging rapidly according to the data, esp here in Florida. Here we go again.

1. We are fully Moderna vaccinated and would absolutely get a booster when available.
2. The only times we HAD to 'mask up' indoors in the last few months was a) in the doctor's office b) on the airplanes.
3. I am still furious that China got away with starting this whole matter. I'll leave it as that.

Are YOU ready to go back to the future with Covid??? grrrr.
.
.

Although the number of cases of the variant is increasing the number of deaths is remaining low. The NYT had an article on the reason many remain unvaccinated and it is accessibility for lower income workers.

[camaguey48]

Control. The govern loves control. They also like a distraction. But they could care less about Americans, like letting all those unvaccinated illegals just walk into our country for votes.

How many deaths from the flu in the past year?
Right on the money. Blame everybody but the ones responsible for letting illegals into this country and not checking for the CCP virus.
Great job, Mr. *

[ThirdOfFive]

.
.
I fully expect us, here in The Villages and much of the U.S. to go back to "masking up" indoors yet again. The new variant is surging rapidly according to the data, esp here in Florida. Here we go again.

1. We are fully Moderna vaccinated and would absolutely get a booster when available.
2. The only times we HAD to 'mask up' indoors in the last few months was a) in the doctor's office b) on the airplanes.
3. I am still furious that China got away with starting this whole matter. I'll leave it as that.

Are YOU ready to go back to the future with Covid??? grrrr.
.
.
I'm not sure that is going to happen.

This is far from a tempest in a teapot. It is a worldwide movement: Italy, France, Australia, the UK, and other countries have all seen huge rallies against mandatory vaccines and mandatory mask-wearing. We don't hear or read about those much in this country, but foreign sources cover them pretty well.

Is destroying businesses and economies a fair price to pay for further control of a disease that is overall something like 99% survivable? I think that is the question that people are asking themselves right now.

[Love2Swim]

Control. The govern loves control. They also like a distraction. But they could care less about Americans, like letting all those unvaccinated illegals just walk into our country for votes.

How many deaths from the flu in the past year?

Blame the rise in Covid on the immigrants? No basis in reality. Another hate mongering Fox news ploy. A Texas politician tried the same reasoning. Facts don't back it up. Texas is way behind other big states in vaccinations of residents. Only 42% of Texans are vaccinated compared to 52% in California and 55% in NY. According to FEMA, less than 6% of Covid tests of immigrants at the US-Mexico border had come back positive, lower than the overall positivity rate in Texas.

[golfing eagles]

I'm not sure that is going to happen.

This is far from a tempest in a teapot. It is a worldwide movement: Italy, France, Australia, the UK, and other countries have all seen huge rallies against mandatory vaccines and mandatory mask-wearing. We don't hear or read about those much in this country, but foreign sources cover them pretty well.

Is destroying businesses and economies a fair price to pay for further control of a disease that is overall something like 99% survivable? I think that is the question that people are asking themselves right now.

No, it's not, and that is why I would not have shut down economies all over the world.

However, mandatory vaccines and masking DOES NOT DESTROY ECONOMIES.

[golfing eagles]

Blame the rise in Covid on the immigrants? No basis in reality. Another hate mongering Fox news ploy. A Texas politician tried the same reasoning. Facts don't back it up. Texas is way behind other big states in vaccinations of residents. Only 42% of Texans are vaccinated compared to 52% in California and 55% in NY. According to FEMA, less than 6% of Covid tests of immigrants at the US-Mexico border had come back positive, lower than the overall positivity rate in Texas.

OK, 10 posts into this thread and we have our first political reference. And would you like to offer a legitimate source for that 6% number, since it seems highly unlikely to be true (a medical study, not your interpretation of a FEMA blurb)

[dewilson58]

Blame the rise in Covid on the immigrants? No basis in reality.

We must blame somebody.
Snowbirds??
Seniors??
Spring breakers??
Children??

[ThirdOfFive]

No, it's not, and that is why I would not have shut down economies all over the world.

However, mandatory vaccines and masking DOES NOT DESTROY ECONOMIES.
I suggest you do some reading on the subject. al-Jazeera has some good coverage regarding the reasons behind the demonstrations, particularly in Europe. Much of it is concern over the risks of the vaccines, primarily it is about what comes along with the mask and vaccine mandates; inevitable social distancing, "green passes" (or "vaccine passports" as we call them over here), limitations on the size of gatherings, downsizing the number of people who can be in a business at any one time, you name it.

In essence, this is a revolt against external controls that, rightly or wrongly, people believe just aren't needed, given the ancillary damage to businesses, economies, and lives that the controls cause.

[Bill14564]

Although the number of cases of the variant is increasing the number of deaths is remaining low. The NYT had an article on the reason many remain unvaccinated and it is accessibility for lower income workers.

Can you provide a link for that article, I would like to read it.

[golfing eagles]

I suggest you do some reading on the subject. al-Jazeera has some good coverage regarding the reasons behind the demonstrations, particularly in Europe. Much of it is concern over the risks of the vaccines, primarily it is about what comes along with the mask and vaccine mandates; inevitable social distancing, "green passes" (or "vaccine passports" as we call them over here), limitations on the size of gatherings, downsizing the number of people who can be in a business at any one time, you name it.

In essence, this is a revolt against external controls that, rightly or wrongly, people believe just aren't needed, given the ancillary damage to businesses, economies, and lives that the controls cause.

al-Jazeera????? Don't even mention that name in my presence. I lost 2 high school classmates on 9/11/01, my brother and nephew were nearby, another friend was almost hit by a jumper. WE MUST NEVER FORGET!!!

And al-Jazeera can go F*** itself

[ThirdOfFive]

al-Jazeera????? Don't even mention that name in my presence. I lost 2 high school classmates on 9/11/01, my brother and nephew were nearby, another friend was almost hit by a jumper. WE MUST NEVER FORGET!!!

And al-Jazeera can go F*** itself
People should try a few of the English-language newspaper websites of some of the European capitals and other major cities. They all have them. The Sydney Morning Herald provides some interesting ongoing coverage as well. Most of them, including al-Jazeera, provide information and in-depth coverage on the anti-mask and -vaccine rallies, and the reasons behind them, that we just don't get over here. In particular, a line from today's edition of the Sydney Morning Herald about the reasons for the demonstrations, at least in the some-dozen places in Australia where they are taking place, sums it up briefly and succinctly: "Let us think for ourselves".

Impugning the messenger because one doesn't like the message does not add anything of substance to the discussion.

[Cobullymom]

Blame the rise in Covid on the immigrants? No basis in reality. Another hate mongering Fox news ploy. A Texas politician tried the same reasoning. Facts don't back it up. Texas is way behind other big states in vaccinations of residents. Only 42% of Texans are vaccinated compared to 52% in California and 55% in NY. According to FEMA, less than 6% of Covid tests of immigrants at the US-Mexico border had come back positive, lower than the overall positivity rate in Texas.
Absolutely no logic in this response…none

[PugMom]

We must blame somebody.
Snowbirds??
Seniors??
Spring breakers??
Children??

blame me! i'm used to it, :icon_wink:

[PugMom]

This, according to CDC and other "knowledgeable" scientists would not even be happening if it weren't for the multitudes of people who don't intend to or haven't been vaccinated. I have yet to hear a good reason for this.

Friend; i am unvaxxed, i was also negative for the virus. it appears some of us will not be affected by covid- i'm not even a carrier! before we go around lynching people for their decisions, let's look @ all sides.

[golfing eagles]

People should try a few of the English-language newspaper websites of some of the European capitals and other major cities. They all have them. The Sydney Morning Herald provides some interesting ongoing coverage as well. Most of them, including al-Jazeera, provide information and in-depth coverage on the anti-mask and -vaccine rallies, and the reasons behind them, that we just don't get over here. In particular, a line from today's edition of the Sydney Morning Herald about the reasons for the demonstrations, at least in the some-dozen places in Australia where they are taking place, sums it up briefly and succinctly: "Let us think for ourselves".

Impugning the messenger because one doesn't like the message does not add anything of substance to the discussion.

I will "impugn" al-Jazeera and that part of the world EVERY CHANCE I GET. But that's just my personal feelings. I find the BBC to be reasonable. Yet, I am still unclear what world anti-mask protests have to do with anything

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Mask companies must be hurting.

[golfing eagles]

Mask companies must be hurting.

Are PPE manufacturers the new "military-industrial complex"????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Rose Ann Vinci Igoe]

.
.
I fully expect us, here in The Villages and much of the U.S. to go back to "masking up" indoors yet again. The new variant is surging rapidly according to the data, esp here in Florida. Here we go again.

1. We are fully Moderna vaccinated and would absolutely get a booster when available.
2. The only times we HAD to 'mask up' indoors in the last few months was a) in the doctor's office b) on the airplanes.
3. I am still furious that China got away with starting this whole matter. I'll leave it as that.

Are YOU ready to go back to the future with Covid??? grrrr.
.
.

Pointing fingers doesn't resolve... we need less attention going that way. Nothing was done on purpose. If we dig deep enough we have plenty going on in this country that is similar. ie. Food contamination, soil , water contamination from Power Plants... chemicals in our food that are toxic, meds that are recalled. So Lets concentrate on Resolve and Solve with what WE can control. We can control if we ALL got vaccinated ... that is how Polio got irradiated. It was also monitory. So this is not new to us. As you, vaccinated and booster welcomed. For the people who don't want to be vaccinated, that is what needs to be Resolved so it will Solve this on going problem. I do respect there choice, but this is for the good of ALL not the One. That is the only way to correct this issue. Masks... Yes and proud to wear it... it will be on going for a long long time.

[ThirdOfFive]

Friend; i am unvaxxed, i was also negative for the virus. it appears some of us will not be affected by covid- i'm not even a carrier! before we go around lynching people for their decisions, let's look @ all sides.
Good point.

I had the bug last fall. Not exactly fun but I've had worse (far worse) bouts from the flu. I also subsequently was vaccinated, the reason being that I did not want some arbitrary rules and regulations lurking around the corner to prevent me from seeing my family, most of whom live in Minnesota.

I personally do not feel threatened in the least when encountering unvaccinated folks. If they feel threatened by me, then I fully support their right to protect themselves in any manner possible, that does not infringe upon my rights or the rights of others.

[Blueblaze]

We let our all-knowing gooberment ban workers from working, to protect them from a manufactured disease that only kills retired people, so why wouldn't we force old folks who are now immune to wear masks so they don't infect the youngsters who were never at risk of dying from the disease in the first place?

If you had trouble following that, welcome to the land of the sane!

Sorry, though -- you might trouble have adjusting to this new country we still insist on labeling the "Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave".

[ThirdOfFive]

I will "impugn" al-Jazeera and that part of the world EVERY CHANCE I GET. But that's just my personal feelings. I find the BBC to be reasonable. Yet, I am still unclear what world anti-mask protests have to do with anything
Anti-mask...anti-vaccine...anti - social distancing: pick your reason. But the bottom line is that people are rebelling against CONTROL. More specifically, controls that are seen as arbitrary, unneeded and an infringement on basic freedoms.

[Two Bills]

If you want to get rich, start a PCP testing facility!

[Bill14564]

Friend; i am unvaxxed, i was also negative for the virus. it appears some of us will not be affected by covid- i'm not even a carrier! before we go around lynching people for their decisions, let's look @ all sides.

I wonder how many of the 39,000 currently hospitalized today and the 300 who will transfer today from the hospital to the mortuary felt exactly the same way.

[golfing eagles]

Anti-mask...anti-vaccine...anti - social distancing: pick your reason. But the bottom line is that people are rebelling against CONTROL. More specifically, controls that are seen as arbitrary, unneeded and an infringement on basic freedoms.

Sorry, I'm probably more conservative than you are, but I just can't see this as an infringement on our "rights". And if you don't think we are already "controlled", think again, like every time you get behind the wheel of a car, or plan a trip out of the country, or decide not to pay your taxes:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[golfing eagles]

Pointing fingers doesn't resolve... we need less attention going that way. Nothing was done on purpose. If we dig deep enough we have plenty going on in this country that is similar. ie. Food contamination, soil , water contamination from Power Plants... chemicals in our food that are toxic, meds that are recalled. So Lets concentrate on Resolve and Solve with what WE can control. We can control if we ALL got vaccinated ... that is how Polio got irradiated. It was also monitory. So this is not new to us. As you, vaccinated and booster welcomed. For the people who don't want to be vaccinated, that is what needs to be Resolved so it will Solve this on going problem. I do respect there choice, but this is for the good of ALL not the One. That is the only way to correct this issue. Masks... Yes and proud to wear it... it will be on going for a long long time.

And just how are we going to get "all" vaccinated. Mandatory vaccines? Quarantine the unvaccinated on Devil's Island? Even then you can't get them all.

And just when did polio get "irradiated"? Was it at the Trinity test site, after Hiroshima, or at Bikini Atoll???? Polio is still alive and well and among us, and the numbers are climbing since some children are not getting vaccinated. So, no, polio has not been ERADICATED.

[Two Bills]

I am thinking of wearing a mask around my a**e to protect others!:icon_wink:

[DAVES]

.
.
I fully expect us, here in The Villages and much of the U.S. to go back to "masking up" indoors yet again. The new variant is surging rapidly according to the data, esp here in Florida. Here we go again.

1. We are fully Moderna vaccinated and would absolutely get a booster when available.
2. The only times we HAD to 'mask up' indoors in the last few months was a) in the doctor's office b) on the airplanes.
3. I am still furious that China got away with starting this whole matter. I'll leave it as that.

Are YOU ready to go back to the future with Covid??? grrrr.
.
.

We need to deal with what is not what should be. Re: vaccinated. Are we prepared for random police stops demanding your paperwork that you have been vaccinated? Are we prepared for forced vaccinations? Are we prepared to, has been done in the past, no shot, no insurance ship them to isolated island to die?
Re: China
What is not what should be. War? Are you prepared to send your son, your daughter, your grand kids? Do you think China will be sending the world money to cover damages? Does sound a bit nuts. Assuming China accepted blame would we, could we agree to an amount?
We our nation and the world.
We have been dealing with this for almost two years. People, all people are tired of it.
Masks? Imagine people on a diet. They all work. Reason they fail is people start full of enthusiasm, that fades and most fail.
Sadly typical
Like rats on a sinking ship, we are not working together, we are attacking each other.

[HRDave]

The ONLY way we’re going to reach herd immunity is by just letting the unvaccinated take their chances and get sick. Let nature take it’s course and let it spread through the unvaccinated. It’s their choice.
Darwin’s Theory at it’s best.
We chose vaccination with Moderna and do not need to wear a mask nor is it logical to wear a mask. It just propagates the myth that vaccination doesn’t work.

[jimbomaybe]

I'm not sure that is going to happen.

This is far from a tempest in a teapot. It is a worldwide movement: Italy, France, Australia, the UK, and other countries have all seen huge rallies against mandatory vaccines and mandatory mask-wearing. We don't hear or read about those much in this country, but foreign sources cover them pretty well.

Is destroying businesses and economies a fair price to pay for further control of a disease that is overall something like 99% survivable? I think that is the question that people are asking themselves right now. your post points out the question that doesn't seem to get much attention, weighing the risk benefits of what should be done, lots of arguments from very different perspectives, risk benefits of vaccination, government control VS individual freedom, and of course statistics and "studies" can point in different directions. the possibility that the reaction to the virus could do as much or more damage due to the economic fallout, by the time we have a better perspective it will be all over

[golfing eagles]

your post points out the question that doesn't seem to get much attention, weighing the risk benefits of what should be done, lots of arguments from very different perspectives, risk benefits of vaccination, government control VS individual freedom, and of course statistics and "studies" can point in different directions. the possibility that the reaction to the virus could do as much or more damage due to the economic fallout, by the time we have a better perspective it will be all over

Agree, that is the elephant in the corner of the room that nobody is talking about-----Have we made the cure worse than the disease?????

[ROCKMUP]

Control. The govern loves control. They also like a distraction. But they could care less about Americans,

This whole thing is a giant psychological manipulation of the masses. Its been done to others throughout history, this is simply a modern example and done on a scale never seen before thanks to social media and the evening news.
Turning neighbor against neighbor, family against family, tell me you don't recognize it. Animal Farm and 1984 are here.

You only need to decide if you're going to get on the train or not because its going to get much worse before it gets better

[HRDave]

I wonder how many of the 39,000 currently hospitalized today and the 300 who will transfer today from the hospital to the mortuary felt exactly the same way.

Should have got the vaccination! This is America! You have the right to choose!
Regret your choice? Too bad & too late.

[RedChariot]

al-Jazeera????? Don't even mention that name in my presence. I lost 2 high school classmates on 9/11/01, my brother and nephew were nearby, another friend was almost hit by a jumper. WE MUST NEVER FORGET!!!

And al-Jazeera can go F*** itself

Thank You. How soon people forget.

[Irishmen]

The ONLY way we’re going to reach herd immunity is by just letting the unvaccinated take their chances and get sick. Let nature take it’s course and let it spread through the unvaccinated. It’s their choice.
Darwin’s Theory at it’s best.
We chose vaccination with Moderna and do not need to wear a mask nor is it logical to wear a mask. It just propagates the myth that vaccination doesn’t work.

This.

[UpNorth]

This, according to CDC and other "knowledgeable" scientists would not even be happening if it weren't for the multitudes of people who don't intend to or haven't been vaccinated. I have yet to hear a good reason for this.

And the CDC also said that the vaccinated carry just as much spreadable viral load as the unvaccinated. No need to point the blame here. In fact, perhaps the vaccinated have been doing much of the spreading. They were the ones told it was ok to take off their masks.

[Malsua]

This.

I also agree, but for maybe a little different reason.

Most viruses mutate to become more contagious and less deadly.

The recent outbreaks in Israel, where they are keeping great data, is that the case fatality rate is way down on the delta variant as compared to original flavor alpha. It now has a IFR about equal to seasonal flu.

Let it burn, the faster the better. Get it all wrapped up. That said, maybe it will mutate further to become even more contagious, with an R0 of something like the Measles(R12+) but become even more just a case of the sniffles.

We need to do loss of function research. This is where instead of making viruses more deadly, we make them less deadly and more contagious. The reason the Delta variant is so much more contagious is that the original proline sitting at the polybasic furin cleavage site PRRA is now another arginine. I.E. RRRA. Having two Arginines at that spot on the spike protein made it super easy for the protease to come along and snip so that the payload could enter the cell. Having 3 Arginines is probably an order of magnitude or better easier.

[SkBlogW]

I also agree, but for maybe a little different reason.

Most viruses mutate to become more contagious and less deadly.

The recent outbreaks in Israel, where they are keeping great data, is that the case fatality rate is way down on the delta variant as compared to original flavor alpha. It now has a IFR about equal to seasonal flu.

Let it burn, the faster the better. Get it all wrapped up. That said, maybe it will mutate further to become even more contagious, with an R0 of something like the Measles(R12+) but become even more just a case of the sniffles.

We need to do loss of function research. This is where instead of making viruses more deadly, we make them less deadly and more contagious. The reason the Delta variant is so much more contagious is that the original proline sitting at the polybasic furin cleavage site PRRA is now another arginine. I.E. RRRA. Having two Arginines at that spot on the spike protein made it super easy for the protease to come along and snip so that the payload could enter the cell. Having 3 Arginines is probably an order of magnitude or better easier.

Excellent post!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

This, according to CDC and other "knowledgeable" scientists would not even be happening if it weren't for the multitudes of people who don't intend to or haven't been vaccinated. I have yet to hear a good reason for this.

The only two "good" reasons for not vaccinating is
1. You're under the recommended age and
2. You have an underlying medical condition that would make it too risky. Allergies to the ingredients of the carrier liquid of the vaccine, allergy to the metal of the needle, significant immune system problem that increases the risks of the "bad" side effects AND increases the risks of complications of the immune system problem...etc.

My sister would get vaccinated but she has way too many medical issues right now, and the risk of adding even one more could put her over the top and into a hospital. She's already had COVID-19 and recovered with some permanent increase in her asthma, she has tons of antibodies, and gets tested regularly. When she got sick with COVID last year she was sick, with symptoms, for a couple of months.

Anyone who is NOT at risk according to a valid actual real-live diagnosis/prognosis from their licensed medical practitioner - should get vaccinated. They should already have been vaccinated. If they were, we probably wouldn't have needed to go back to masks again. Virus mutations occur only when they have enough hosts to pick. The more people who can fight off the virus, the harder it is for the virus to mutate.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I also agree, but for maybe a little different reason.

Most viruses mutate to become more contagious and less deadly.

The recent outbreaks in Israel, where they are keeping great data, is that the case fatality rate is way down on the delta variant as compared to original flavor alpha. It now has a IFR about equal to seasonal flu.

Let it burn, the faster the better. Get it all wrapped up. That said, maybe it will mutate further to become even more contagious, with an R0 of something like the Measles(R12+) but become even more just a case of the sniffles.

We need to do loss of function research. This is where instead of making viruses more deadly, we make them less deadly and more contagious. The reason the Delta variant is so much more contagious is that the original proline sitting at the polybasic furin cleavage site PRRA is now another arginine. I.E. RRRA. Having two Arginines at that spot on the spike protein made it super easy for the protease to come along and snip so that the payload could enter the cell. Having 3 Arginines is probably an order of magnitude or better easier.

How about translating that into "mundane non-scientist English" for all the normal people here?

[golfing eagles]

And the CDC also said that the vaccinated carry just as much spreadable viral load as the unvaccinated. No need to point the blame here. In fact, perhaps the vaccinated have been doing much of the spreading. They were the ones told it was ok to take off their masks.

Total nonsense. There is a study that suggests the vaccinated have a nasal carriage load "indistinguishable" from the unvaccinated as far as delta variant goes. That's a long stretch to "spreading", and an even longer stretch to spreading it to another vaccinated individual. I would suggest almost all the "spreading" is unvaccinated to unvaccinated

[golfing eagles]

How about translating that into "mundane non-scientist English" for all the normal people here?

I thought that was pretty clear.

Bottom line---the more generations of viral mutations, the more contagious but less deadly it becomes (in general). Eventually you are left with something like the common cold (some of which are coronaviruses already)

[dewilson58]

Wonder if the starter will stop giving me the stink-eye when I say I'll take my own cart.

:MOJE_whot:

[golfing eagles]

Wonder if the starter will stop giving me the stink-eye when I say I'll take my own cart.

:MOJE_whot:

Probably not. But unless the rules change, prepare to stay on the cart path and walk a lot:1rotfl:

[jimbomaybe]

How about transla"ting that into "mundane non-scientist English" for all the normal people here? "Normal people here" oh you optimist you !!

[Malsua]

How about translating that into "mundane non-scientist English" for all the normal people here?

Ok, so let's make it a little easier.

R0 (R Nought) is the basic replication of a disease. Measles is super high. Each person who gets the measles, spreads it to 12 to 18 other people.

Original Sars-cov2, I.E. The Corona Virus, is somewhere north of 2 and somewhere south of 4. I.e R0 of 2-4.

The Delta Variant is much greater than that for two reasons. One, it's easier for the human body to recognize there is a protein that needs some help. That's what the Arginines are.

A Protease is a helper enzyme, and super simplifying it here, Sees those bits of the corona virus that are asking for help(arginines) and dissolves them. This allows the virus payload to get injected into the cell.

With 3 arginines sitting there on the stalk of the spike protein, it's really easy for the body to see this and help the poor little virus that can't do anything without some help.

The other reason Delta is so contagious is that the amount of viral shedding seems to be much much greater and sooner in the infection process. This again, is probably because it's so much easier for the protease to come along and dissolve those arginines. I.e. it infects FASTER.

As to the final part, the last I read out of Isreal is that while infections are way up, deaths are way down. This is a good thing. This means herd immunity will be achieved much sooner.

Delta is also getting though Vaccinated folks, pretty regular too. I don't know what the numbers are, but I do know two ladies in my sister's golf group, both fully vaxxed got the delta. Sinus infection, coughing, but on the mend already. Shrug, no idea what those numbers are as far as push through, but it's higher than I would like to see, but being that this disease seems to have lost a lot of it's deadliness, let 'er rip.

[Hans53]

900 % spike in Del Rio where the migrants cross.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

al-Jazeera????? Don't even mention that name in my presence. I lost 2 high school classmates on 9/11/01, my brother and nephew were nearby, another friend was almost hit by a jumper. WE MUST NEVER FORGET!!!

And al-Jazeera can go F*** itself

I think maybe you are thinking of something else.

al-Jazeera English is pretty neutral, because they focus on global news rather than just one country or another. They do tend to be critical of the USA but their criticism is from the perspective of the world, not the introverted perspective of American journalism.

al-Jazeera American tends to a less critical perspective of America, because that's where they're stationed. Most of the stuff I read on al-Jazeera doesn't bring up any particular emotion against my country. It's mostly just facts of "this happened" and "this person has this education" and the usual who what where when and how. The "why" they leave to editorials, OR to statements from whoever they're talking about.

They were banned from China and censored by them for a piece they did on China's prison system, and Egypt jailed 3 of their journalists for reporting on the country's Coup d'etat in 2013.

The journalists were ultimately pardoned but their arrest and imprisonment was a world-wide story that brought people from around the globe to protest against Egypt for suppressing facts that al-Jazeera had reported on.

[DAVES]

The only two "good" reasons for not vaccinating is
1. You're under the recommended age and
2. You have an underlying medical condition that would make it too risky. Allergies to the ingredients of the carrier liquid of the vaccine, allergy to the metal of the needle, significant immune system problem that increases the risks of the "bad" side effects AND increases the risks of complications of the immune system problem...etc.

My sister would get vaccinated but she has way too many medical issues right now, and the risk of adding even one more could put her over the top and into a hospital. She's already had COVID-19 and recovered with some permanent increase in her asthma, she has tons of antibodies, and gets tested regularly. When she got sick with COVID last year she was sick, with symptoms, for a couple of months.

Anyone who is NOT at risk according to a valid actual real-live diagnosis/prognosis from their licensed medical practitioner - should get vaccinated. They should already have been vaccinated. If they were, we probably wouldn't have needed to go back to masks again. Virus mutations occur only when they have enough hosts to pick. The more people who can fight off the virus, the harder it is for the virus to mutate.

HUH?
I've never heard of people allergic to the metal in the needles.
Sister has too many medical issues to take the vaccine but has recovered from covid 19. If, so certainly unusual.

[golfing eagles]

I think maybe you are thinking of something else.

al-Jazeera English is pretty neutral, because they focus on global news rather than just one country or another. They do tend to be critical of the USA but their criticism is from the perspective of the world, not the introverted perspective of American journalism.

al-Jazeera American tends to a less critical perspective of America, because that's where they're stationed. Most of the stuff I read on al-Jazeera doesn't bring up any particular emotion against my country. It's mostly just facts of "this happened" and "this person has this education" and the usual who what where when and how. The "why" they leave to editorials, OR to statements from whoever they're talking about.

They were banned from China and censored by them for a piece they did on China's prison system, and Egypt jailed 3 of their journalists for reporting on the country's Coup d'etat in 2013.

The journalists were ultimately pardoned but their arrest and imprisonment was a world-wide story that brought people from around the globe to protest against Egypt for suppressing facts that al-Jazeera had reported on.

Thank you, and you are probably right. However, that day was far too personal for me being from NY for the reasons I already stated. And what I didn't mention is that my son was in the air when it happened, flying from Phoenix TO Boston. When the FAA order came through the pilot put that plane on the ground in Indianapolis from 37,000 feet in about 4 minutes!

Maybe if al-Jazeera America changed it's name to apple pie instead of that Arabic gibberish I'd be less critical.

[dewilson58]

prepare to stay on the cart path and walk a lot:1rotfl:

I enjoy the exercise, plus it helps me keep my girlish figure.

[camaguey48]

I'm not sure that is going to happen.

This is far from a tempest in a teapot. It is a worldwide movement: Italy, France, Australia, the UK, and other countries have all seen huge rallies against mandatory vaccines and mandatory mask-wearing. We don't hear or read about those much in this country, but foreign sources cover them pretty well.

Is destroying businesses and economies a fair price to pay for further control of a disease that is overall something like 99% survivable? I think that is the question that people are asking themselves right now.
According to the ministry of propaganda and thought reform, we will all die if we don't vaccinate and wear a mask. Why? We shouldn't be afraid if we do both those things. Right? Don't believe anything coming from the fearmongers. Even salt looks like sugar.

[DAVES]

I think maybe you are thinking of something else.

al-Jazeera English is pretty neutral, because they focus on global news rather than just one country or another. They do tend to be critical of the USA but their criticism is from the perspective of the world, not the introverted perspective of American journalism.

al-Jazeera American tends to a less critical perspective of America, because that's where they're stationed. Most of the stuff I read on al-Jazeera doesn't bring up any particular emotion against my country. It's mostly just facts of "this happened" and "this person has this education" and the usual who what where when and how. The "why" they leave to editorials, OR to statements from whoever they're talking about.

They were banned from China and censored by them for a piece they did on China's prison system, and Egypt jailed 3 of their journalists for reporting on the country's Coup d'etat in 2013.

The journalists were ultimately pardoned but their arrest and imprisonment was a world-wide story that brought people from around the globe to protest against Egypt for suppressing facts that al-Jazeera had reported on.

We tend to think everything is new. All news is biased. I read a book about the Wright Brothers. First powered flight was 1903. They were a world event. They wrote tons of letters etc and many still exist. Interesting to me. They criticized the same things we discuss today. Reporters, not knowing, understanding what they were reporting.
Reporters, feeding off each others misinformation. Powered flight and flight were world
competition. The Wright Brothers complained about reporters national bias.

[Topspinmo]

.
.
I fully expect us, here in The Villages and much of the U.S. to go back to "masking up" indoors yet again. The new variant is surging rapidly according to the data, esp here in Florida. Here we go again.

1. We are fully Moderna vaccinated and would absolutely get a booster when available.
2. The only times we HAD to 'mask up' indoors in the last few months was a) in the doctor's office b) on the airplanes.
3. I am still furious that China got away with starting this whole matter. I'll leave it as that.

Are YOU ready to go back to the future with Covid??? grrrr.
.
.

I take it you didn’t watch the news last night?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

HUH?
I've never heard of people allergic to the metal in the needles.
Sister has too many medical issues to take the vaccine but has recovered from covid 19. If, so certainly unusual.

Yes, she is one of the minority who is not recommended to be vaccinated. She's the type where - if an illness OR medication can come with potential adverse side effects, she gets them.

So if a vaccine could come with adverse side effects, she is likely to be "that person" who gets the side effects.

Since she's already immuno-compromised, additional adverse side effects could end her up in the hospital, having organ surgery, or dead. It's also possible that absolutely nothing bad would happen on top of her current medical issues. But for her, the risk is greater than the potential reward, so she's acting on the side of caution.

As for metal allergies - syringe needles are made of stainless steel, which contains small amounts of nickel. While most people with nickel allergies can tolerate it ON their skin (such as snaps of shirts and zippers of pants), it's possible to have a reaction when it is inserted under the skin. Not common. But possible. For anyone who IS allergic to nickel, it's something they have to consider and prepare for, whenever they might need an injection of anything.

[golfing eagles]

I take it you didn’t watch the news last night?

Doesn't matter. Here in Florida the governor is calling the legislature back to vote on banning mask mandates in schools. Will they extend that to businesses etc.????

[Topspinmo]

I think maybe you are thinking of something else.

al-Jazeera English is pretty neutral, because they focus on global news rather than just one country or another. They do tend to be critical of the USA but their criticism is from the perspective of the world, not the introverted perspective of American journalism.

al-Jazeera American tends to a less critical perspective of America, because that's where they're stationed. Most of the stuff I read on al-Jazeera doesn't bring up any particular emotion against my country. It's mostly just facts of "this happened" and "this person has this education" and the usual who what where when and how. The "why" they leave to editorials, OR to statements from whoever they're talking about.

They were banned from China and censored by them for a piece they did on China's prison system, and Egypt jailed 3 of their journalists for reporting on the country's Coup d'etat in 2013.

The journalists were ultimately pardoned but their arrest and imprisonment was a world-wide story that brought people from around the globe to protest against Egypt for suppressing facts that al-Jazeera had reported on.


Pretty neutral! LOL

[DAVES]

Sorry, I'm probably more conservative than you are, but I just can't see this as an infringement on our "rights". And if you don't think we are already "controlled", think again, like every time you get behind the wheel of a car, or plan a trip out of the country, or decide not to pay your taxes:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Reality seems to be missing from many peoples thoughts. Truly simple example, we drive on the right side of the road. The English drive on the left. Our rights? Hum, we should be able to drive on the side we choose.

[sail33or]

I just got back from an extended vacation using multiple Airlines.

I was in many airports and many different planes.

Most people (I SAID MOST PEOPLE) were wearing their masks below the nose (like me in order to breath and prevent glasses from fogging up.)

Even the DHS guys were not wearing mask above the nose.

Kids were wearing their masks around their necks.

So it really doesn't matter what anyone says about wearing masks (for me) because MOST people are (in actuality) not wearing them.

[golfing eagles]

Reality seems to be missing from many peoples thoughts. Truly simple example, we drive on the right side of the road. The English drive on the left. Our rights? Hum, we should be able to drive on the side we choose.

Here in the Villages, some people do:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Thank you, and you are probably right. However, that day was far too personal for me being from NY for the reasons I already stated. And what I didn't mention is that my son was in the air when it happened, flying from Phoenix TO Boston. When the FAA order came through the pilot put that plane on the ground in Indianapolis from 37,000 feet in about 4 minutes!

Maybe if al-Jazeera America changed it's name to apple pie instead of that Arabic gibberish I'd be less critical.

I was working a temp job at Pratt-Whitney on 9/11. We had the TV news running in the background while we were configuring helicopter parts for the military. This was in North Haven, CT, around 1 hour away from NYC.

All of a sudden the guy sitting behind me in the office yelled something like "oh sh**!" or "OH MY GOD" or something equally attention-grabbing. We turned to watch the first tower burning, and the announcers proclaiming that it was a terrorist attack.

The guy who drew our attention to the TV then said something like "you know, this plant (our Pratt-Whitney building) would make a great target for them too.

I didn't even say a word. I fled from the building and went home. After I was able to breathe normally again I called the temp agency and told them what happened and that I wasn't going back to that job.

What happened was not the act of "those Arabs." It was the act of a very specific group of terrorists.

Not all brown-skinned people are terrorists. Not all hijab-wearing women are oppressed. Not all turban-wearing men are even Arabs, OR members of any terrorist movement. And not all Muslims are terrorists. In fact, most are not. The fringe are. Just like the fringe of white-skinned American people are white supremacists and neo-Nazis and "alt-right." They don't represent America.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Pretty neutral! LOL

All media has some bias. Some are more biased than others. al-Jazeera English is one of the lesser-baised news sources. They do have a spin. But it's not extreme. They stay fairly close to neutral, in general, with few exceptions (particularly their editorials but - that's what editorials are for).

[Malsua]

I just got back from an extended vacation using multiple Airlines.

I was in many airports and many different planes.

.

I flew out of MCO last week to Newark and from Newark to MCO yesterday.

I saw maybe 2 people doing the chin mask routine, most people had them up.

I'm not a fan of masks, and I am vaxxed. I will wear where required.

Paper masks don't work against aerosols to any real degree unless it's a properly fitted N95. The predominant mode of infection of Sars-Cov2 is aerosols.
I have a beard, the only way for me would be a full face N95 respirator since I can't form a seal to the sides.

The real way to avoid getting this disease is the four Ds.

Density - Don't hang in tightly packed spaces with other people.
Duration - Don't stick around long
Dimensions - Find the biggest open space you can, be there.
Draft - If there are open doors or moving air, that's the best spot.

It's all about diluting the amount of Virus that may be lurking. Open space, high ceilings, lots of churn.

[DAVES]

Yes, she is one of the minority who is not recommended to be vaccinated. She's the type where - if an illness OR medication can come with potential adverse side effects, she gets them.

So if a vaccine could come with adverse side effects, she is likely to be "that person" who gets the side effects.

Since she's already immuno-compromised, additional adverse side effects could end her up in the hospital, having organ surgery, or dead. It's also possible that absolutely nothing bad would happen on top of her current medical issues. But for her, the risk is greater than the potential reward, so she's acting on the side of caution.

As for metal allergies - syringe needles are made of stainless steel, which contains small amounts of nickel. While most people with nickel allergies can tolerate it ON their skin (such as snaps of shirts and zippers of pants), it's possible to have a reaction when it is inserted under the skin. Not common. But possible. For anyone who IS allergic to nickel, it's something they have to consider and prepare for, whenever they might need an injection of anything.

Interesting, live and learn. Nickle is very common. Use of stainless steel is way up, cars, appliances, tableware, even coinage.

[Villagevip]

deleted...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Interesting, live and learn. Nickle is very common. Use of stainless steel is way up, cars, appliances, tableware, even coinage.

Nickle allergies THAT severe aren't common at all. Most people who have a nickle allergy can be in physical contact with stainless steel without any problem at all. It's just when it's in contact with an open wound, or placed under the skin, or ingested, or introduced to the body via piercings that they can experience unpleasant effects.

I only knew one person who had that allergy ever, a patient who was my shared hospital suite when I had my car accident. She had a broken hip and they put a bolt in there to keep it immobile, and had to monitor her 24/7 for reactions and keep some kind of anti-rejection meds in her IV drip to make sure she didn't swell up like a balloon.

[golfing eagles]

I was working a temp job at Pratt-Whitney on 9/11. We had the TV news running in the background while we were configuring helicopter parts for the military. This was in North Haven, CT, around 1 hour away from NYC.

All of a sudden the guy sitting behind me in the office yelled something like "oh sh**!" or "OH MY GOD" or something equally attention-grabbing. We turned to watch the first tower burning, and the announcers proclaiming that it was a terrorist attack.

The guy who drew our attention to the TV then said something like "you know, this plant (our Pratt-Whitney building) would make a great target for them too.

I didn't even say a word. I fled from the building and went home. After I was able to breathe normally again I called the temp agency and told them what happened and that I wasn't going back to that job.

What happened was not the act of "those Arabs." It was the act of a very specific group of terrorists.

Not all brown-skinned people are terrorists. Not all hijab-wearing women are oppressed. Not all turban-wearing men are even Arabs, OR members of any terrorist movement. And not all Muslims are terrorists. In fact, most are not. The fringe are. Just like the fringe of white-skinned American people are white supremacists and neo-Nazis and "alt-right." They don't represent America.

Can't really argue with that and I (reluctantly) agree. But there are 2,996 dead people who would probably be even more reluctant.

[Neils]

Who will the media blame this time around??
They already got rid of the last guy.

[golfing eagles]

Who will the media blame this time around??
They already got rid of the last guy.

Nah. They'll just play the "more should have been done sooner" card again.

[Number 10 GI]

Although the number of cases of the variant is increasing the number of deaths is remaining low. The NYT had an article on the reason many remain unvaccinated and it is accessibility for lower income workers.

I don't know where the NYT did their research but at all the Walmarts around here have signs telling people that vaccine is available for no cost. I'm pretty sure Publix has the same thing. I seriously doubt it is any different in any other city in the US.

[drducat]

The Maskholes are at it again...trying very hard to destroy our country!!:boxing2:

[Number 10 GI]

Blame the rise in Covid on the immigrants? No basis in reality. Another hate mongering Fox news ploy. A Texas politician tried the same reasoning. Facts don't back it up. Texas is way behind other big states in vaccinations of residents. Only 42% of Texans are vaccinated compared to 52% in California and 55% in NY. According to FEMA, less than 6% of Covid tests of immigrants at the US-Mexico border had come back positive, lower than the overall positivity rate in Texas.

I don't recall anyone claiming the illegals are the cause of the rise in infection. The argument I've heard is that a third of the illegals are refusing to be vaccinated and are being dumped in cities all over the U.S. If the administration is so concerned about the spread of the virus and is clamping down on American citizens why aren't they refusing to allow illegals entry into the country unvaccinated?

[Ben Franklin]

I don't recall anyone claiming the illegals are the cause of the rise in infection. The argument I've heard is that a third of the illegals are refusing to be vaccinated and are being dumped in cities all over the U.S. If the administration is so concerned about the spread of the virus and is clamping down on American citizens why aren't they refusing to allow illegals entry into the country unvaccinated?

A source is much better than gossip.

I love those who say they aren't getting it because the vaccine is not FDA approved. Those people hate government agencies and now they make such a silly claim. Remember the FDA approved VIOXX that killed over 60,000 people?

[SkBlogW]

Total nonsense. There is a study that suggests the vaccinated have a nasal carriage load "indistinguishable" from the unvaccinated as far as delta variant goes. That's a long stretch to "spreading", and an even longer stretch to spreading it to another vaccinated individual. I would suggest almost all the "spreading" is unvaccinated to unvaccinated

Why do you think CDC is reversing mask policy for the vaccinated? Perhaps you should give them a call and share your expertise.

[golfing eagles]

Why do you think CDC is reversing mask policy for the vaccinated? Perhaps you should give them a call and share your expertise.

Actually, I have the credentials and experience to do just that, and I know doctors there unless they are also retired. Do you?????

But to answer the question, one word. Politics.

[Altavia]

Ok, so let's make it a little easier.

R0 (R Nought) is the basic replication of a disease. Measles is super high. Each person who gets the measles, spreads it to 12 to 18 other people.

Original Sars-cov2, I.E. The Corona Virus, is somewhere north of 2 and somewhere south of 4. I.e R0 of 2-4.

The Delta Variant is much greater than that for two reasons. One, it's easier for the human body to recognize there is a protein that needs some help. That's what the Arginines are.

A Protease is a helper enzyme, and super simplifying it here, Sees those bits of the corona virus that are asking for help(arginines) and dissolves them. This allows the virus payload to get injected into the cell.

With 3 arginines sitting there on the stalk of the spike protein, it's really easy for the body to see this and help the poor little virus that can't do anything without some help.

The other reason Delta is so contagious is that the amount of viral shedding seems to be much much greater and sooner in the infection process. This again, is probably because it's so much easier for the protease to come along and dissolve those arginines. I.e. it infects FASTER.

As to the final part, the last I read out of Isreal is that while infections are way up, deaths are way down. This is a good thing. This means herd immunity will be achieved much sooner.

Delta is also getting though Vaccinated folks, pretty regular too. I don't know what the numbers are, but I do know two ladies in my sister's golf group, both fully vaxxed got the delta. Sinus infection, coughing, but on the mend already. Shrug, no idea what those numbers are as far as push through, but it's higher than I would like to see, but being that this disease seems to have lost a lot of it's deadliness, let 'er rip.

Interesting point, the varients seem to surge and burn out once the next more infectious varient takes hold.

Do these mutations have any effect on the accuracy/sensitivity of the COVID tests?

Anecdotally, I'm seeing more vaccinated family/friends getting and recovering upper respiratory symptoms but are COVID negative.

[SkBlogW]

Actually, I have the credentials and experience to do just that, and I know doctors there unless they are also retired. Do you?????

But to answer the question, one word. Politics.

LOL, then please call the CDC and set them straight.

Politics? These delta breakthrough cases and reports that vaccinated people can carry high viral loads and can spread the virus are the exact opposite of what Biden administration wants to hear. Reverse course and tell the vaccinated to mask up? Not a winning ticket to convince more to vaccinate or win votes. This is the last thing the administration want to see but it's obvious they have seen something that convinced them to reverse course.

[golfing eagles]

LOL, then please call the CDC and set them straight.

Politics? These delta breakthrough cases and reports that vaccinated people can carry high viral loads and can spread the virus are the exact opposite of what Biden administration wants to hear. Reverse course and tell the vaccinated to mask up? Not a winning ticket to convince more to vaccinate or win votes. This is the last thing the administration want to see but it's obvious they have seen something that convinced them to reverse course.

It's not what anyone WANTS to hear. But again, this is now essentially a pandemic of the unvaccinated, and no politician is going to tell that segment of the population to just go off and die, hence the mask theatrics.

[drducat]

LOL, then please call the CDC and set them straight.

Politics? These delta breakthrough cases and reports that vaccinated people can carry high viral loads and can spread the virus are the exact opposite of what Biden administration wants to hear. Reverse course and tell the vaccinated to mask up? Not a winning ticket to convince more to vaccinate or win votes. This is the last thing the administration want to see but it's obvious they have seen something that convinced them to reverse course.

No...No you can't say that even though it is true...they will shoot you down and call you a conspiracy brat.:blahblahblah:

[drducat]

CDC Director Now Says ‘New Data’ Shows Breakthrough Cases in Vaccinated People Can Spread as Much Virus as Unvaccinated


CDC Director Now Says 'New Data' Shows Breakthrough Cases in Vaccinated People Can Spread as Much Virus as Unvaccinated (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/07/cdc-director-now-says-new-data-shows-breakthrough-cases-vaccinated-people-can-spread-much-virus-unvaccinated/)

As I have been saying all along.....but noooo.:bigbow:

[ThirdOfFive]

Ok, so let's make it a little easier.

R0 (R Nought) is the basic replication of a disease. Measles is super high. Each person who gets the measles, spreads it to 12 to 18 other people.

Original Sars-cov2, I.E. The Corona Virus, is somewhere north of 2 and somewhere south of 4. I.e R0 of 2-4.

The Delta Variant is much greater than that for two reasons. One, it's easier for the human body to recognize there is a protein that needs some help. That's what the Arginines are.

A Protease is a helper enzyme, and super simplifying it here, Sees those bits of the corona virus that are asking for help(arginines) and dissolves them. This allows the virus payload to get injected into the cell.

With 3 arginines sitting there on the stalk of the spike protein, it's really easy for the body to see this and help the poor little virus that can't do anything without some help.

The other reason Delta is so contagious is that the amount of viral shedding seems to be much much greater and sooner in the infection process. This again, is probably because it's so much easier for the protease to come along and dissolve those arginines. I.e. it infects FASTER.

As to the final part, the last I read out of Isreal is that while infections are way up, deaths are way down. This is a good thing. This means herd immunity will be achieved much sooner.

Delta is also getting though Vaccinated folks, pretty regular too. I don't know what the numbers are, but I do know two ladies in my sister's golf group, both fully vaxxed got the delta. Sinus infection, coughing, but on the mend already. Shrug, no idea what those numbers are as far as push through, but it's higher than I would like to see, but being that this disease seems to have lost a lot of it's deadliness, let 'er rip.
I confess I don't know what a lot of the words in the quoted post mean, but I thought that the mention of "measles" was interesting.

Back in the day, before the MMR vaccine, I remember that when a kid in the area came down with measles, moms of kids who had not yet had measles brought their kids around to expose them, the wisdom being that the kid was going to get measles anyway eventually and to get it when it was planned and more convenient for the family was better than the kid getting it at an inconvenient or possibly dangerous time. Same for mumps and chicken pox. None of us worried much about it; for the overwhelming majority of kids it meant a few days off from school. I don't remember knowing or even hearing of a kid that died from any of the above, though some cases were more serious than others: my chicken pox case consisted of about three spots whereas my brother looked like he had been peppered with birdshot at close range. But the point was that there was no cure, and no good way of preventing it, so the best approach was just to get it over with.

Maybe there's a lesson there.

[fishon]

Kittens need to go back to living in the basement.

[golfing eagles]

CDC Director Now Says ‘New Data’ Shows Breakthrough Cases in Vaccinated People Can Spread as Much Virus as Unvaccinated


CDC Director Now Says 'New Data' Shows Breakthrough Cases in Vaccinated People Can Spread as Much Virus as Unvaccinated (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/07/cdc-director-now-says-new-data-shows-breakthrough-cases-vaccinated-people-can-spread-much-virus-unvaccinated/)

As I have been saying all along.....but noooo.:bigbow:

But again, the number of breakthrough cases is quite small. Oh, yeah, you didn't say THAT

[UpNorth]

Total nonsense. There is a study that suggests the vaccinated have a nasal carriage load "indistinguishable" from the unvaccinated as far as delta variant goes. That's a long stretch to "spreading", and an even longer stretch to spreading it to another vaccinated individual. I would suggest almost all the "spreading" is unvaccinated to unvaccinated

It is what the CDC said. Hence, the mask request for the vaccinated. You are free to spin any theory you want. It just gets filed as "misinformation".

[VApeople]

.
I fully expect us, here in The Villages and much of the U.S. to go back to "masking up" indoors yet again.


We don't care what the CDC says. We will see what our esteemed leader, Gov. DeSantis, decides.

.
Are YOU ready to go back to the future with Covid???

Yeah, we are ready. We don't mind wearing a mask in Publix. We don't eat at indoor food places. We don't get close to other people. Life is good.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

But again, the number of breakthrough cases is quite small. Oh, yeah, you didn't say THAT

Using a political website to prove that something isn't political is the alt-right's modus operandi.

Gateway Pundit...is an alt-right fake news website. That's what they're famous for - creating FICTION and weaving bits and pieces of facts into the stories, so that the easily-swayed far-right dupes will actually believe it.

They publish hoaxes, conspiracy theories - they're sort of like if Breitbart and Stormfront had a baby, and raised the baby to become the new KKK White Evangelical Prince of The United White States of Murika..

that's Gateway Pundit.

[drducat]

But again, the number of breakthrough cases is quite small. Oh, yeah, you didn't say THAT

Nobody knows what to believe anymore....way too many lies which began from the beginning. The pandemic msg. has been inconsistent over and over again in the name of "science and data":shocked:.

[drducat]

Using a political website to prove that something isn't political is the alt-right's modus operandi.

Gateway Pundit...is an alt-right fake news website. That's what they're famous for - creating FICTION and weaving bits and pieces of facts into the stories, so that the easily-swayed far-right dupes will actually believe it.

They publish hoaxes, conspiracy theories - they're sort of like if Breitbart and Stormfront had a baby, and raised the baby to become the new KKK White Evangelical Prince of The United White States of Murika..

that's Gateway Pundit.

Gateway Pundit is none of what is posted in the above msg....where on earth does this come from....good grief.

[golfing eagles]

It is what the CDC said. Hence, the mask request for the vaccinated. You are free to spin any theory you want. It just gets filed as "misinformation".

So sorry you aren't capable of understanding the post. Oh, well..... I can't educate everyone.

[Topspinmo]

Blame the rise in Covid on the immigrants? No basis in reality. Another hate mongering Fox news ploy. A Texas politician tried the same reasoning. Facts don't back it up. Texas is way behind other big states in vaccinations of residents. Only 42% of Texans are vaccinated compared to 52% in California and 55% in NY. According to FEMA, less than 6% of Covid tests of immigrants at the US-Mexico border had come back positive, lower than the overall positivity rate in Texas.

Ones they catch or let dance across border, know body knows how many sneak across border.

[Topspinmo]

Using a political website to prove that something isn't political is the alt-right's modus operandi.

Gateway Pundit...is an alt-right fake news website. That's what they're famous for - creating FICTION and weaving bits and pieces of facts into the stories, so that the easily-swayed far-right dupes will actually believe it.

They publish hoaxes, conspiracy theories - they're sort of like if Breitbart and Stormfront had a baby, and raised the baby to become the new KKK White Evangelical Prince of The United White States of Murika..

that's Gateway Pundit.


So, why moderator is this allowed? So if I respond I get nipped right. You can’t have it one way. Somebody needs banned for while IMO.

[Topspinmo]

Are PPE manufacturers the new "military-industrial complex"????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Yes, in China.:)

[Bucco]

Gateway Pundit is none of what is posted in the above msg....where on earth does this come from....good grief.

The Gateway Pundit is known as a source of viral falsehoods and hoaxes.[9][36][37] It has been described by the Harvard Journal of Law & Technology as one of the websites that "primarily propagate fake news",[11] by Newsweek as a fake news website,[38] and by CNN as a website "prone to peddling conspiracy theories".[39] In August 2019, journalism professors Erik P. Bucy and John E. Newhagen observed that "The most aggressive fake news sites and associated YouTube channels, such as InfoWars, The Gateway Pundit, and The Daily Stormer, are routinely sued by victims of these published reports for libel and defamation."[10] As a result of a number of lawsuits against The Gateway Pundit over its false stories, it was reported in March 2018 that Jim Hoft had told his writers to be more careful: "I don't want any more lawsuits so we have to be really careful with what we put up."[40] Hoft stated that he believes the lawsuits "are part of a multi-pronged effort to attack media outlets on the right."[40]

In 2019, The Gateway Pundit, along with One America News Network and The Daily Caller, were deprecated by the Wikipedia community for publishing false information relating to American politics.[41”

The Gateway Pundit - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gateway_Pundit)

The originator, Jim Hoft proudly proclaims them as a Fake news site. Having been banned from just about ALL social media, it has earned its reputation.

Anyone who knowingly read this stuff, or quotes that crap should be ignored, and certainly never turn your back on them. They represent the ultimate in “trolls” and actually even give trolls a bad name

[Dana1963]

So, why moderator is this allowed? So if I respond I get nipped right. You can’t have it one way. Somebody needs banned for while IMO.
Nothing political here

[nancymiller217@yahoo.com]

This, according to CDC and other "knowledgeable" scientists would not even be happening if it weren't for the multitudes of people who don't intend to or haven't been vaccinated. I have yet to hear a good reason for this.

Well, theunvaccinated get the last laugh, because one of the big rewards for getting vaccinated was dumping the masks.

[Wyseguy]

I'm afraid you are right. The delta variant in conjugation with the anti-vaxxers have sent us backward about a year. At this point COVID is essentially a pandemic of the unvaccinated, and I agree with the bean of my morning beverage that I am not here to protect others from themselves. Despite the new nasal carriage viral load studies, it is almost impossible for a vaccinated person to spread the virus to another vaccinated person.

About a year ago I was opposed to "vaccine passports", now I'm not so sure. The problem is that signs that ask you to wear a mask if not vaccinated created an "honor system", and our country is not as "honorable" as it once was. I guess it was foolish to expect that those who are irresponsible enough to refuse the vaccine would gladly continue to wear a mask. Two leading experts (if there are any) went as far as to state that we would not have this spike if only everyone was vaccinated OR the unvaccinated did as requested and continued to wear a mask indoors. So now the politicians will likely trip over themselves to make masks mandatory again, just to show how much "they care" about all the people.

The only unvaccinated group I have sympathy for are those that have medical reasons not to get vaccinated or a medical condition that makes it unlikely they will acquire immunity. But we can't make policy for 99.5% of the population for a small minority And just wait until the vaccine is approved for children---the same people that vaccinated their kids against polio, diphtheria, measles, mumps, rubella, etc. (because otherwise they could not go to school) will be objecting to the COVID vaccine. I suppose the die hard anti-vaxxers can home school their kids---kind of a blind leading the blind scenario.

Do you hear what you are saying. We can not make policy for 99.5% of the population for a small minority? We are supposed to protect the rights of the minority. Too many people are forgetting what this country was founded on. My business partner came from a communist country. He points out how the way the government is acting is exactly what he experiences in the Soviet Union. From my experience, I recall the stories of how a certain group were blamed for all of the wrongs of a society. Some of us need to take a deep breath and really do some soul searching.

[Wyseguy]

Ones they catch or let dance across border, know body knows how many sneak across border.

Up to 1,000,000 annual illegal aliens, transported to Fl, Tx, AZ. Most unvaccinated, many with covid. Yet a certain group wants to fan the flames of division and hatred among the citizens.

[Bill14564]

Well, theunvaccinated get the last laugh, because one of the big rewards for getting vaccinated was dumping the masks.

The other big reward was staying alive, right? I'll take that as sufficient.

Yes, some/many/most of those who contract Covid will recover but some won't. With my luck, I would be one of those who wouldn't. I don't need to worry about that now and that's good enough for me.

[Wyseguy]

How can we know what to believe any longer. We have been lied to by politicians and news agencies. We have had our information censored by Twitter and facebook. Looking at our leaders, all they want to do is push the gullible and simple minded to attack others; " It is the unvaccinated, they must not be able to live normal lives". What kind of crazy people behave this way.

[Wyseguy]

Using a political website to prove that something isn't political is the alt-right's modus operandi.

Gateway Pundit...is an alt-right fake news website. That's what they're famous for - creating FICTION and weaving bits and pieces of facts into the stories, so that the easily-swayed far-right dupes will actually believe it.

They publish hoaxes, conspiracy theories - they're sort of like if Breitbart and Stormfront had a baby, and raised the baby to become the new KKK White Evangelical Prince of The United White States of Murika..

that's Gateway Pundit.

Some sign on to CNN daily to be told what to think. Usually those who use the term murika. So childish.

[dewilson58]

Some sign on to CNN daily to be told what to think. Usually those who use the term murika. So childish.

:bigbow:

[Malsua]

Interesting point, the varients seem to surge and burn out once the next more infectious varient takes hold.

Do these mutations have any effect on the accuracy/sensitivity of the COVID tests?

Anecdotally, I'm seeing more vaccinated family/friends getting and recovering upper respiratory symptoms but are COVID negative.

As has been said above, viruses tend to mutate towards more contagious and less deadly. If they go the other way, they will either stop spreading or kill their hosts too fast. Whichever variant infects more wins the game. You infect more by being more contagious and letting your host live longer.

The Spanish Flu of 1918 is around today and if you ever got a seasonal flu shot, chances are you got a vaccine to prevent it. It is no where near as deadly as it was back then.

At this time, there have only been slight variations in the genome. A few proteins have changed, like the aforementioned proline to arginine. These minor variations do not affect the accuracy of the test.

If you've heard of the PCR test, this is a polymearse chain reaction test. It works by amplifying the sample and comparing it. If it doesn't find a match, it amplifies it again. This is called the cycle threshold. Typical PCR tests should stop looking at around 30, maybe 32 cycles. Beyond that, you're probably amplifying viral fragments rather than a viable virus. One of the complaints is how far out they are running the CT(I read 40 in Canada!) because it's not very meaningful, specially if a patient is not symptomatic. I.e. lower CT, means that there is less amplification and more virus to detect.

So to answer the question, does the variant affect the accuracy? Well, I can tell you that on positive delta variant PCRs the CTs are 4-8 cycles lower. While not "accuracy", it's certainly a better indication of a case because the viral load is much, much greater. That said, even with the higher viral load, the actual disease presentation, in general, is not as bad. This is not to make light of it, people will still die, but not nearly to the same degree as the original.

[Boomer]

Those who are unvaccinated (for no good reason) and who seem to spend their days awash in their “Pick Your Own Poison” sources of dysinformation really should simplify their “search for truth” by taking a look at Vermont’s stats.

Vermont has more than 80% vaccinated, resulting in a 7-day-average infection rate of 1.6%, and only 5 hospitalizations, as of Monday’s report — with none of those in the ICU.

Those stats are based on having tested 412,975 people.

Vermont’s Covid deaths = 259.

Vermont’s state motto is. . .Freedom and Unity.

Way to work that motto, Vermont! :MOJE_whot:

Boomer

[Jaydancer]

The Perfect Quote!

[camaguey48]

We don't care what the CDC says. We will see what our esteemed leader, Gov. DeSantis, decides.



Yeah, we are ready. We don't mind wearing a mask in Publix. We don't eat at indoor food places. We don't get close to other people. Life is good.
The other people's life is even better. Their life is good. As for usted, yo no sé.

[golfing eagles]

The Gateway Pundit is known as a source of viral falsehoods and hoaxes.[9][36][37] It has been described by the Harvard Journal of Law & Technology as one of the websites that "primarily propagate fake news",[11] by Newsweek as a fake news website,[38] and by CNN as a website "prone to peddling conspiracy theories".[39] In August 2019, journalism professors Erik P. Bucy and John E. Newhagen observed that "The most aggressive fake news sites and associated YouTube channels, such as InfoWars, The Gateway Pundit, and The Daily Stormer, are routinely sued by victims of these published reports for libel and defamation."[10] As a result of a number of lawsuits against The Gateway Pundit over its false stories, it was reported in March 2018 that Jim Hoft had told his writers to be more careful: "I don't want any more lawsuits so we have to be really careful with what we put up."[40] Hoft stated that he believes the lawsuits "are part of a multi-pronged effort to attack media outlets on the right."[40]

In 2019, The Gateway Pundit, along with One America News Network and The Daily Caller, were deprecated by the Wikipedia community for publishing false information relating to American politics.[41”

The Gateway Pundit - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gateway_Pundit)

The originator, Jim Hoft proudly proclaims them as a Fake news site. Having been banned from just about ALL social media, it has earned its reputation.

Anyone who knowingly read this stuff, or quotes that crap should be ignored, and certainly never turn your back on them. They represent the ultimate in “trolls” and actually even give trolls a bad name

I'm not familiar with that site, and have no idea what it is all about, but it sounds like it probably promotes "fake news" On the other hand getting called that by CNN and Newsweek proves nothing

[Vikingjunior]

Panera already has their mask sign back up. Of course no one had a mask on inside.

[golfing eagles]

Do you hear what you are saying. We can not make policy for 99.5% of the population for a small minority? We are supposed to protect the rights of the minority. Too many people are forgetting what this country was founded on. My business partner came from a communist country. He points out how the way the government is acting is exactly what he experiences in the Soviet Union. From my experience, I recall the stories of how a certain group were blamed for all of the wrongs of a society. Some of us need to take a deep breath and really do some soul searching.

Yes, I hear EXACTLY what I am saying, even if you do not understand it. As a nation, as any nation, we cannot make sweeping policy based on the special needs of a very small number of people. That doesn't mean we don't support their rights and it doesn't mean we discriminate against them. It means we do not require 330 million people to wear a mask to theoretically "protect" a few hundred thousand. We do however help those few hundred thousand to protect themselves in other ways. So you may now go ahead and take that "deep breath and search your soul"

[drducat]

As has been said above, viruses tend to mutate towards more contagious and less deadly. If they go the other way, they will either stop spreading or kill their hosts too fast. Whichever variant infects more wins the game. You infect more by being more contagious and letting your host live longer.

The Spanish Flu of 1918 is around today and if you ever got a seasonal flu shot, chances are you got a vaccine to prevent it. It is no where near as deadly as it was back then.

At this time, there have only been slight variations in the genome. A few proteins have changed, like the aforementioned proline to arginine. These minor variations do not affect the accuracy of the test.

If you've heard of the PCR test, this is a polymearse chain reaction test. It works by amplifying the sample and comparing it. If it doesn't find a match, it amplifies it again. This is called the cycle threshold. Typical PCR tests should stop looking at around 30, maybe 32 cycles. Beyond that, you're probably amplifying viral fragments rather than a viable virus. One of the complaints is how far out they are running the CT(I read 40 in Canada!) because it's not very meaningful, specially if a patient is not symptomatic. I.e. lower CT, means that there is less amplification and more virus to detect.

So to answer the question, does the variant affect the accuracy? Well, I can tell you that on positive delta variant PCRs the CTs are 4-8 cycles lower. While not "accuracy", it's certainly a better indication of a case because the viral load is much, much greater. That said, even with the higher viral load, the actual disease presentation, in general, is not as bad. This is not to make light of it, people will still die, but not nearly to the same degree as the original.

Pretty sure the CDC tossed out the PCR test just yesterday.....also the test shows any virus, so who knows what if it is covid or not. The flu triggers the same. The numbers from the beginning are absolutely no good. The total number of covid 19 infections and deaths are a guess.

[Number 10 GI]

Using a political website to prove that something isn't political is the alt-right's modus operandi.

Gateway Pundit...is an alt-right fake news website. That's what they're famous for - creating FICTION and weaving bits and pieces of facts into the stories, so that the easily-swayed far-right dupes will actually believe it.

They publish hoaxes, conspiracy theories - they're sort of like if Breitbart and Stormfront had a baby, and raised the baby to become the new KKK White Evangelical Prince of The United White States of Murika..

that's Gateway Pundit.

Just like CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSN, and all the lesser media outlets.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'm not familiar with that site, and have no idea what it is all about, but it sounds like it probably promotes "fake news" On the other hand getting called that by CNN and Newsweek proves nothing

There are 77 different sources in on that wiki article. If you were to check out any 20 of them, you'd see they're not just CNN and Newsweek. You'd see quotes made by the pundit owner himself, proclaiming boastfully that his is a fake news website.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Panera already has their mask sign back up. Of course no one had a mask on inside.

Of course not. They don't have any respect for rules, unless the rules benefit them personally. Wearing masks is inconvenient, so they won't wear them and no one can make them. If you try and tell them they have to leave, they become Karens and Chads, disrupting the entire establishment and making the PAYING customers want to leave. Not because of Panera, but because Karen and Chad won't just STFU and wear their damned mask.

[billethkid]

GAteway Pundit is not a serious source of anything but lies, wanna be and BS!

[Malsua]

Pretty sure the CDC tossed out the PCR test just yesterday.....also the test shows any virus, so who knows what if it is covid or not. The flu triggers the same. The numbers from the beginning are absolutely no good. The total number of covid 19 infections and deaths are a guess.

Well, they announced it a while back that they were going to phase it out. I think the actual date was last week. Running the CTs up to 36 or more is simply looking for a positive case. Not my monkey, not my circus though.

A PCR test with ground glass opacities in the lung and a lung disease that presents like an organizing pneumonia and you probably have a Covid case. Declaring someone died of it without a genuine doctor examining the patient? That's just BS and it happened a lot. The numbers were juiced, no doubt.

[camaguey48]

Well, they announced it a while back that they were going to phase it out. I think the actual date was last week. Running the CTs up to 36 or more is simply looking for a positive case. Not my monkey, not my circus though.

A PCR test with ground glass opacities in the lung and a lung disease that presents like an organizing pneumonia and you probably have a Covid case. Declaring someone died of it without a genuine doctor examining the patient? That's just BS and it happened a lot. The numbers were juiced, no doubt.
If the government wants to boost vaccine rates, then all attention should be focused on proper science-based messaging to convince the unvaccinated. You cannot do that when you a) fearmonger, b) shame, and c) offer contradictory advice. The vaccinated should be viewed as an example of what awaits, which is a return to normalcy. "Get the shot, but still mask up and remain in the bunker" give no incentive whatsoever to those on the fence. It doesn’t take a scientist to know why vaccination rates have stalled. It’s the experts’ continued failure to message about the vaccine properly since they decided to go that route. The jobs reports are bad. Inflation is rising. No major bills seem poised for passage from the * administration, so rehash the panic over Delta to keep the nation’s attention away from a presidency that is rather braindead.

[Bucco]

Just like CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSN, and all the lesser media outlets.

Would love if you could link to the latest or any conspiracy theory, or hoax on any network you mention.

Please..you won’t, because you can’t.

[tuccillo]

The best numbers to look at are "excess deaths". These are deaths, for any reason, in excess of what would normally be expected. The CDC tracks this. The number of deaths each year is remarkably predictable. Since COVID-19 was the only extraordinary event in 2020, looking at the number of excess deaths can give you a pretty good picture of direct and indirect deaths caused by the coronavirus.

Well, they announced it a while back that they were going to phase it out. I think the actual date was last week. Running the CTs up to 36 or more is simply looking for a positive case. Not my monkey, not my circus though.

A PCR test with ground glass opacities in the lung and a lung disease that presents like an organizing pneumonia and you probably have a Covid case. Declaring someone died of it without a genuine doctor examining the patient? That's just BS and it happened a lot. The numbers were juiced, no doubt.

[GrumpyOldMan]

The best numbers to look at are "excess deaths". These are deaths, for any reason, in excess of what would normally be expected. The CDC tracks this. The number of deaths each year is remarkably predictable. Since COVID-19 was the only extraordinary event in 2020, looking at the number of excess deaths can give you a pretty good picture of direct and indirect deaths caused by the coronavirus.

Looking at excess deaths is extremely difficult. Since the entire environment has changed - employment, recreation, travel, International travel, health care, everything has changed. So, something are causing fewer deaths, some are causing more, COVID is just one piece of the puzzle. Can you provide a CDC link that explains their evaluation of excess deaths and how it relates to deaths caused by COVID?

[tuccillo]

I will let you do your own googling of CDC documents. There have been some studies that estimated that roughly 75% of excess deaths are attributed to the coronavirus. Many deaths can be attributed indirectly to the virus. For example, if you die of a heart attack because you feared seeking medical attention because of the virus. The point is that looking at excess deaths removes questions about how deaths are recorded. Please recall that I did say direct and indirect.

Looking at excess deaths is extremely difficult. Since the entire environment has changed - employment, recreation, travel, International travel, health care, everything has changed. So, something are causing fewer deaths, some are causing more, COVID is just one piece of the puzzle. Can you provide a CDC link that explains their evaluation of excess deaths and how it relates to deaths caused by COVID?

[John41]

Would love if you could link to the latest or any conspiracy theory, or hoax on any network you mention.

Please..you won’t, because you can’t.

MEDIA HOAX.

(The Washington Post, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, et al.) Media Spreads Inflammatory Fake News Story About a Police Shooting in Ferguson, MO

In 2014, when a Ferguson, Missouri Police Officer confronted a suspect who matched the description of an assault and robbery that had just taken place at a convenient store, the young man, 18 year old Michael Brown, fought with the Police Officer, Darren Wilson, struggling to wrest his gun away. When Wilson pursued him on foot, Brown turned and charged at him, and Wilson fired several shots into the front of Brown's body, killing him.

This was a very delicate tragedy with strong racial overtones, and in a rush to support a racially-charged, inflammatory media narrative, journalists enthusiastically spread a fake news story: that Michael Brown had his hands up and yelled "Don't shoot!" at the time Wilson fatally discharged his firearm. It turned out to be false. Upon investigation by the Federal Justice Department, eyewitnesses changed their stories or admitted they didn't see the shooting take place.

The eager embrace of this narrative by the media had real world consequences, stoking tensions and anger in Ferguson and leading to looting of local businesses and protests that turned violent. The shooting happened in August 2014. By March 2015, MSNBC anchor and Washington Post columnist Jonathan Capehart finally offered a mea culpa with a column entitled, "'Hands Up, Don't Shoot' Was Based on a Lie."

[GrumpyOldMan]

I will let you do your own googling of CDC documents. There have been some studies that estimated that roughly 75% of excess deaths are attributed to the coronavirus. Many deaths can be attributed indirectly to the virus. For example, if you die of a heart attack because you feared seeking medical attention because of the virus. The point is that looking at excess deaths removes questions about how deaths are recorded. Please recall that I did say direct and indirect.

Thank you, I will look into it, it sounds like you have and I see no reason to doubt you.

[GrumpyOldMan]

///

[drducat]

Best info on Delta so far and how it is occurring in the vaccinated.

Decoding delta: How viruses mutate and what can be done about it | Hub (https://hub.jhu.edu/2021/07/19/andrew-pekosz-delta-variants/)

DECODING DELTA: HOW VIRUSES MUTATE AND WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT
Virologist Andrew Pekosz discusses what we know so far about the delta variant of the coronavirus and what it means for our understanding of SARS-CoV-2 overall

From John Hopkins Magazine.........

[Love2Swim]

The data I've read said that the Delta variant is more contagious, but not more severe. That does not mean it is less severe. And the existing data is messy, narrow statistics pointing in many different directions, so more study is needed. But the good news is it doesn't seem to cause worse disease or make people sicker. Vaccinated people probably don't have much to fear, but the unvaccinated certainly do.

[jack.hunter00@yahoo.com]

It's a shame that we are in this position.

When we received all those vaccines when we were kids, there was no choice if you wanted to go to school. DeSantis is a Loser to not back, recommend and assist to enforce the CDC guidelines through out this ordeal as well as The Villages.

[WesMan]

NO masks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Girlcopper]

.
.
I fully expect us, here in The Villages and much of the U.S. to go back to "masking up" indoors yet again. The new variant is surging rapidly according to the data, esp here in Florida. Here we go again.

1. We are fully Moderna vaccinated and would absolutely get a booster when available.
2. The only times we HAD to 'mask up' indoors in the last few months was a) in the doctor's office b) on the airplanes.
3. I am still furious that China got away with starting this whole matter. I'll leave it as that.

Are YOU ready to go back to the future with Covid??? grrrr.
.
.
Yep, numbers are rising and now younger ones are being hospitalized. Its no longer an old person virus. Get vaccinated! Wear a mask! Or stay out of my home n neighborhood

[golfing eagles]

NO masks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's a blanket statement and an overreach. Masks still have some use in some situations on some people. But I do have a problem with parts of the latest CDC guidance. Let's take a look at what they said and what they then advised:

Their statement was: New data suggests that some fully vaccinated people with a breakthrough case can still transmit the virus.

OK, first of all, how many breakthrough cases are there really? The last number they released based on 180 million vaccinated was 0.01%. This probably an undercount, just seems too good to be true, but it is a starting point. Since then, they have moved away from counting "cases" based on a COVID test because of "unreliability" and are looking at hospitalizations and deaths. (But interesting in the new guidance they want fully vaccinated individuals that have an exposure to get a COVID test in 3-5 days----go figure!).

Next, what percentage is "some"--1%, 99%, something in between???

Third---simple math. Lets assume the breakthrough rate is way off, like undercounted by 100 fold--that would give a breakthrough rate of 1%. So SOME, lets say 50% of fully vaccinated individuals who unknowingly have a breakthrough infection or a whopping total of 0.5% of fully vaccinated individuals can transmit the virus at any given time.

Next, who are they going to infect? The unvaccinated, of course. Because using our 1% breakthrough number they can only transmit the virus to 1 in 100 vaccinated people. So now, the chance of a vaccinated person infecting another vaccinated person is .01 x 0.5 x0.01 = .0005, or 1 in 20,000. And for this EVERYONE has to wear a mask???? Again, it looks like those that followed the advice to get vaccinated and did they right thing are forced to protect those that chose to take their chances. Well, we should just let the dice roll for them at this point, they made their decision, probably because they knew more than the experts(:1rotfl:)

So , IMHO, I think the CDC did an overreach with this new guidance, and now the dominoes are falling all over

[fastboat]

.
.
I fully expect us, here in The Villages and much of the U.S. to go back to "masking up" indoors yet again. The new variant is surging rapidly according to the data, esp here in Florida. Here we go again.

1. We are fully Moderna vaccinated and would absolutely get a booster when available.
2. The only times we HAD to 'mask up' indoors in the last few months was a) in the doctor's office b) on the airplanes.
3. I am still furious that China got away with starting this whole matter. I'll leave it as that.

Are YOU ready to go back to the future with Covid??? grrrr.
.
.

Time to just and continue to blame China and way past time for the rest of the world to start making them pay. Sanctions and banning "Made in China" products would be a good start. If nothing else this whole pandemic thing should have shown Americans how dependent we have become on the CCP. Disgusting!!

[lkagele]

Control. The govern loves control. They also like a distraction. But they could care less about Americans, like letting all those unvaccinated illegals just walk into our country for votes.

How many deaths from the flu in the past year?

Exactly. How can you take the government's advice and directives seriously when 100's of thousands illegals are being let in and transported to various parts of the country without testing or quarantine? I thank God every day I live in the Free State of Florida with a governor that actually follows the science.

[Bay Kid]

Govern control with the help of the media. Let's keep our country down.

[merrymini]

Typical tyrant stuff. Control the media, instill fear, turn people against each other. Indicate the unvaccinated. Should we wear gold stars? You seen this before. Acknowledge what it is. The evidence does not support the claims being made. But do not let the facts get in your way.

[Number 10 GI]

Would love if you could link to the latest or any conspiracy theory, or hoax on any network you mention.

Please..you won’t, because you can’t.

How about Richard Jewell who was tried, convicted and sentenced to death by the media in the 1996 Summer Olympics? There was never a shred of evidence implicating him and he was completely exonerated but facts didn't stop the media from ruining the man's life.

Then there was the character assassination of the young teenager with a high school church group from Kentucky that was touring Washington DC. According to the news the young man taunted a guy claiming to be American Indian who was demonstrating in the area. Turns out it was a complete hit piece ignoring the video of the entire confrontation. The kid was standing with his group and the "Indian" approached him and got in his face beating a drum. Why did the media hacks have such a grudge against a teenager? Because he was wearing a MAGA hat. Here is a link for you to read about it.

Longer video casts new light on Native American taunting (https://nypost.com/2019/01/21/longer-video-casts-new-light-on-native-american-taunting-controversy/)

I'm not going to waste my time listing all the bogus stories and lies created by the media over the years. Do some internet searching and enlighten yourself.

[Jeanette.U]

I had a haircut yesterday and I wore a mask. I was the only one there who was wearing a mask. The lady who cut my hair told me I didn’t have to wear a mask. I asked her if she was vaccinated. “Not yet” she said. I kept my mask on. Yes, I’m vaccinated. I’m not happy about going back to masking up for anything indoors but seeing Florida’s stats, I’m doing it.

[jbrown132]

It all about control and deflection and if you think otherwise I know of a beautiful bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

[Andyb]

Apparently our Government is not too concerned about the Delta COVID, of they were, they would have shut down the major virus spreaders, the illegal immigrants on our southern border.

[Waltdisney4life]

I think it comes down to trust Fauci has proven himself to be a liar the CDC has flip-flopped many times how can you blame anybody for being skeptical

[KRMACK55]

This, according to CDC and other "knowledgeable" scientists would not even be happening if it weren't for the multitudes of people who don't intend to or haven't been vaccinated. I have yet to hear a good reason for this.
You don’t know or understand the exceptions. Those with breathing issues compromised immune systems under chemo and many other conditions. Don’t judge what you know nothing about.

[nn0wheremann]

.
.
I fully expect us, here in The Villages and much of the U.S. to go back to "masking up" indoors yet again. The new variant is surging rapidly according to the data, esp here in Florida. Here we go again.

1. We are fully Moderna vaccinated and would absolutely get a booster when available.
2. The only times we HAD to 'mask up' indoors in the last few months was a) in the doctor's office b) on the airplanes.
3. I am still furious that China got away with starting this whole matter. I'll leave it as that.

Are YOU ready to go back to the future with Covid??? grrrr.
.
.
With all these blooming Crepe Myrtles and other such trees, this has been a terrible year for allergies. The masks do seem to help with that.

[aallbrand]

It is very simple. Your rights are useless if you are dead. What a country we live in . We are watching fellow Americans drop like flies and the best we can do is worry about Immigrants and whine about masks.

God help us all

[KRMACK55]

I'm afraid you are right. The delta variant in conjugation with the anti-vaxxers have sent us backward about a year. At this point COVID is essentially a pandemic of the unvaccinated, and I agree with the bean of my morning beverage that I am not here to protect others from themselves. Despite the new nasal carriage viral load studies, it is almost impossible for a vaccinated person to spread the virus to another vaccinated person.

About a year ago I was opposed to "vaccine passports", now I'm not so sure. The problem is that signs that ask you to wear a mask if not vaccinated created an "honor system", and our country is not as "honorable" as it once was. I guess it was foolish to expect that those who are irresponsible enough to refuse the vaccine would gladly continue to wear a mask. Two leading experts (if there are any) went as far as to state that we would not have this spike if only everyone was vaccinated OR the unvaccinated did as requested and continued to wear a mask indoors. So now the politicians will likely trip over themselves to make masks mandatory again, just to show how much "they care" about all the people.

The only unvaccinated group I have sympathy for are those that have medical reasons not to get vaccinated or a medical condition that makes it unlikely they will acquire immunity. But we can't make policy for 99.5% of the population for a small minority And just wait until the vaccine is approved for children---the same people that vaccinated their kids against polio, diphtheria, measles, mumps, rubella, etc. (because otherwise they could not go to school) will be objecting to the COVID vaccine. I suppose the die hard anti-vaxxers can home school their kids---kind of a blind leading the blind scenario.
Vaccine passports will cement government compliance and more control over your life. You don’t know the exceptions and have no desire to. All those caring parents who refuse to force their children to wear face diapers will do a better job of educating their children than the public school system which we pour billions into and still lag so far behind most of the world to our detriment. Reading these comments makes it every easy to figure out whose from a blue or red state.

[donassaid]

Perhaps because people are unwilling to submit themselves to "experimental" gene therapy for a disease that 99.7% of people survive. You have no idea of the long term effects of any of these shots and the government and news media are hiding the fact that over 4000 healthy people in this country and over 12,000 worldwide DIED from the shot within 3 weeks and hundreds of thousands experienced severe symptoms. You don't have to be a math wizard to realize that a lot of people are unwilling to assume that risk over the risk of getting covid. Speaking of masks, could someone PLEASE explain how a mask that covers only the mouth and nose can keep an airborne virus from getting into your bloodstream thru your eyes and ears? Or how tge virus can be so smart as to "take a break" for 30-40 minutes while you are eating your dinner? Common sense is at an all time low!

[KRMACK55]

Right on the money. Blame everybody but the ones responsible for letting illegals into this country and not checking for the CCP virus.
Great job, Mr. *
Thank you ! My hero one of the wisest ! Should be mandatory reading in education !!

[Pat2015]

This, according to CDC and other "knowledgeable" scientists would not even be happening if it weren't for the multitudes of people who don't intend to or haven't been vaccinated. I have yet to hear a good reason for this.

There are multiple reasons why people aren’t getting vaccinated. First, there are some who have been told by their doctors not to get vaccinated due to their health. Second, people who already have had Covid are said to have natural immunity. Third, some people feel as though the vaccines are not safe as they’ve still not obtained FDA approval, the efficiencies are unknown, the long term effects are unknown, and the risk of dying from Covid is pretty slim. These are all good reasons that people haven’t been vaccinated. I have friends who are not vaccinated and that’s their choice to make.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Best info on Delta so far and how it is occurring in the vaccinated.

Decoding delta: How viruses mutate and what can be done about it | Hub (https://hub.jhu.edu/2021/07/19/andrew-pekosz-delta-variants/)

DECODING DELTA: HOW VIRUSES MUTATE AND WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT
Virologist Andrew Pekosz discusses what we know so far about the delta variant of the coronavirus and what it means for our understanding of SARS-CoV-2 overall

From John Hopkins Magazine.........

Great article. Especially the tl;dr (aka: the moral of the story):

"So, if we can reach a critical mass of vaccination, we can presumably drastically reduce the chance that additional advantageous mutations will take hold in our communities."

[KRMACK55]

Blame the rise in Covid on the immigrants? No basis in reality. Another hate mongering Fox news ploy. A Texas politician tried the same reasoning. Facts don't back it up. Texas is way behind other big states in vaccinations of residents. Only 42% of Texans are vaccinated compared to 52% in California and 55% in NY. According to FEMA, less than 6% of Covid tests of immigrants at the US-Mexico border had come back positive, lower than the overall positivity rate in Texas.
Hate mongering no one is more corrosive than the NBC ANC CBS MSNBC CNN - rely on federal agencies I’ll rely on science not fear and lies.

[sail33or]

It is AMAZING to me that you people actually get in a moving vehicle because I can absolutely prove to you a person died yesterday "IN A MOVING VEHICLE". (Yes, DIED.)

Well it was the sudden stop that actually got them.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

There are multiple reasons why people aren’t getting vaccinated. First, there are some who have been told by their doctors not to get vaccinated due to their health. Second, people who already have had Covid are said to have natural immunity. Third, some people feel as though the vaccines are not safe as they’ve still not obtained FDA approval, the efficiencies are unknown, the long term effects are unknown, and the risk of dying from Covid is pretty slim. These are all good reasons that people haven’t been vaccinated. I have friends who are not vaccinated and that’s their choice to make.

People who say "it hasn't gotten FDA approval" are just pretending. They're not sincere. How many of them are taking vitamin supplements, putting moisturizer on their face because the manufacturer insists it's "anti-aging" moisturizer? How many of them self-medicate with a glass of wine at the end of the day to relax? How many of them take pro-biotics to support bone health or digestive disorders?

NONE of those things are FDA approved. Not a single one of them. And yet tens of millions of people use them every single day to treat or cure a medical problem.

Why are they saying that "FDA" is the reason they refuse? Because the media they've chosen to listen to has insisted that the vaccine is only good if the FDA approves it. If it's not FDA approved, then it MUST be dangerous.

Meanwhile, those people who are making these proclamations are taking probiotics, relaxing with a drink, smearing their faces with moisturizers, and taking enough vitamin D to choke a horse as a preventative. They're also the same people who insisted that hydroxycholoroquine and a z-pak (azithromicyn) are safe and effective but the FDA was refusing to approve it, and everyone should get some anyway. And the dupes who CHOSE to believe all that horsepucky, believed all that horsepucky and ranted and railed against the gubbment , and found ways of getting it anyway.

These are the people who are making a fuss about the vaccine not being FDA approved.

The most pathetic part of this is: the FDA HAS APPROVED IT FOR EMERGENCY USE. This is an emergency.

[Bill14564]

I had a haircut yesterday and I wore a mask. I was the only one there who was wearing a mask. The lady who cut my hair told me I didn’t have to wear a mask. I asked her if she was vaccinated. “Not yet” she said. I kept my mask on. Yes, I’m vaccinated. I’m not happy about going back to masking up for anything indoors but seeing Florida’s stats, I’m doing it.

Why did you feel it necessary to wear a mask? Do you not trust the vaccine to keep you safe? Do you believe you, a vaccinated person, could infect your unvaccinated hairdresser?

[Bill14564]

You don’t know or understand the exceptions. Those with breathing issues compromised immune systems under chemo and many other conditions. Don’t judge what you know nothing about.

Half the US population have breathing issues, compromised immune systems, or are undergoing chemotherapy? The part of the population that *does* have those conditions would be protected if the other part, the ones who only have excuses, would get vaccinated.

[KYtoTV2021]

no need for masks. We are all fine

[billethkid]

I always come away from posts that infer wearing masks keeps one safe.....wondering.....

We all know that wearing a mask is for the protection of others from YOU!!!!

Right?!

[SugarOnMyTongue]

Come on folks, do your part to let us all get back to living our lives the best we can.

If you know an idiot that can be vaccinated who hasn't been vaccinated, tell that ignorant and selfish person to get the shot.

If it comes to it, I fully support all government subsidies being taken from anyone that is a vaccine candidate who has not been vaccinated.

This has gone on long enough. It's not political. It's about health and economy. Do the right thing!

[tuccillo]

What Government subsides are you referring to?

Come on folks, do your part to let us all get back to living our lives the best we can.

If you know an idiot that can be vaccinated who hasn't been vaccinated, tell that ignorant and selfish person to get the shot.

If it comes to it, I fully support all government subsidies being taken from anyone that is a vaccine candidate who has not been vaccinated.

This has gone on long enough. It's not political. It's about health and economy. Do the right thing!

[billethkid]

Come on folks, do your part to let us all get back to living our lives the best we can.

If you know an idiot that can be vaccinated who hasn't been vaccinated, tell that ignorant and selfish person to get the shot.

If it comes to it, I fully support all government subsidies being taken from anyone that is a vaccine candidate who has not been vaccinated.

This has gone on long enough. It's not political. It's about health and economy. Do the right thing!

but.....but....but what about the permissive everything agenda?

[Wyseguy]

I'm afraid you are right. The delta variant in conjugation with the anti-vaxxers have sent us backward about a year. At this point COVID is essentially a pandemic of the unvaccinated, and I agree with the bean of my morning beverage that I am not here to protect others from themselves. Despite the new nasal carriage viral load studies, it is almost impossible for a vaccinated person to spread the virus to another vaccinated person.

About a year ago I was opposed to "vaccine passports", now I'm not so sure. The problem is that signs that ask you to wear a mask if not vaccinated created an "honor system", and our country is not as "honorable" as it once was. I guess it was foolish to expect that those who are irresponsible enough to refuse the vaccine would gladly continue to wear a mask. Two leading experts (if there are any) went as far as to state that we would not have this spike if only everyone was vaccinated OR the unvaccinated did as requested and continued to wear a mask indoors. So now the politicians will likely trip over themselves to make masks mandatory again, just to show how much "they care" about all the people.

The only unvaccinated group I have sympathy for are those that have medical reasons not to get vaccinated or a medical condition that makes it unlikely they will acquire immunity. But we can't make policy for 99.5% of the population for a small minority And just wait until the vaccine is approved for children---the same people that vaccinated their kids against polio, diphtheria, measles, mumps, rubella, etc. (because otherwise they could not go to school) will be objecting to the COVID vaccine. I suppose the die hard anti-vaxxers can home school their kids---kind of a blind leading the blind scenario.

You say "Despite the new nasal carriage viral load studies, it is almost impossible for a vaccinated person to spread the virus to another vaccinated person.".
If a vaccinated person has the same viral load of this new variant as an unvaccinated individual does, why would the chance to pass it on to another vaxed individual be any less? As an accountant I like to assign numbers to issues. If vaccinated Mary has a Delta viral load of 10. Unvaccinated John has a Delta Viral load of 10. Why would you (a vaccinated person) have a greater risk posed to you by one of the above vs the other?

[Wyseguy]

I had a haircut yesterday and I wore a mask. I was the only one there who was wearing a mask. The lady who cut my hair told me I didn’t have to wear a mask. I asked her if she was vaccinated. “Not yet” she said. I kept my mask on. Yes, I’m vaccinated. I’m not happy about going back to masking up for anything indoors but seeing Florida’s stats, I’m doing it.

That is certainly your choice (Wear a mask or not). If someone wants to wear a mask while driving, alone, in their car, Bless their heart. I wouldn't go around asking people if they have been vaccinated, but that is just me.

[Wyseguy]

but.....but....but what about the permissive everything agenda?

Government subsidies? Hmmmm. Are you suggesting only those who receive government subsidies be forced to get vaccinated? As you say, for the economy. What next, sterilization or your "subsidies" are cut off?
The news plan to sow panic is certainly working.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I always come away from posts that infer wearing masks keeps one safe.....wondering.....

We all know that wearing a mask is for the protection of others from YOU!!!!

Right?!

Primarily for the protection of others against you. Somewhat from protection of yourself against others.

YOUR mask provides SOME protection to YOU, and MORE protection to OTHERs.

THEIR mask provides some protection for themselves, and MORE protection for you.

YOUR vaccine provides the MOST protection to you, more than masks that other people wear and even more than social distancing.

YOUR vaccine provides SOME protection to everyone else...

UNLESS they are also vaccinated.

If everyone in the room is vaccinated, the entire room will share the MOST protection among any other option.

[Wyseguy]

Half the US population have breathing issues, compromised immune systems, or are undergoing chemotherapy? The part of the population that *does* have those conditions would be protected if the other part, the ones who only have excuses, would get vaccinated.

The hysteria many on this very board practice are hurting the very people you want to protect. Because of chemo drugs, bone marrow shots and whatever else they have given me, to keep me alive (I thank God for that) has resulted in my medical team advising I do not get the vaccine at this time. I have been yelled at, cursed, one person even spit at me for not being vaccinated and not wearing a mask. I have no desire to enter into discussions about my health a dozen times daily whenever I go out. Anyone who ever had the treatments knows that for a few days after the bone marrow stimulation drug every step hurts and your skull feels like it is going to explode. The LAST thing I want is some self important "Im Vaxxed, I care" person come up and giving me crap. Take care of yourself as best you can. Have compassion for everyone you come across. Don't assume you know what they are up to or dealing with. I have my reasons, young females may be concerned with child birth (My generation may remember the totally safe injection cure for morning sickness) and potential effects of the shot. It is easy to get wrapped in ourselves. Many on here are older (and distinguished I am sure), not having to worry about things younger, or sicker individuals do. I am so troubled by the hostility and division vaccinated and non vaccinated individuals are demonstrating, all pushed forward by the press and government. Keep us at each others throats and we will not realize who the real enemy is.

[Lottoguy]

Imagine people saying no to the Polio vaccine went it came out. Now when you look back you can see how stupid people are. Or throwing insults at Dr. Jonas Salk. Let's face it people are crazy with what they believe in. I put them in with the "flat Earthers".

[Wyseguy]

It is AMAZING to me that you people actually get in a moving vehicle because I can absolutely prove to you a person died yesterday "IN A MOVING VEHICLE". (Yes, DIED.)

Well it was the sudden stop that actually got them.

They must not care about people.

[billethkid]

The hysteria many on this very board practice are hurting the very people you want to protect. Because of chemo drugs, bone marrow shots and whatever else they have given me, to keep me alive (I thank God for that) has resulted in my medical team advising I do not get the vaccine at this time. I have been yelled at, cursed, one person even spit at me for not being vaccinated and not wearing a mask. I have no desire to enter into discussions about my health a dozen times daily whenever I go out. Anyone who ever had the treatments knows that for a few days after the bone marrow stimulation drug every step hurts and your skull feels like it is going to explode. The LAST thing I want is some self important "Im Vaxxed, I care" person come up and giving me crap. Take care of yourself as best you can. Have compassion for everyone you come across. Don't assume you know what they are up to or dealing with. I have my reasons, young females may be concerned with child birth (My generation may remember the totally safe injection cure for morning sickness) and potential effects of the shot. It is easy to get wrapped in ourselves. Many on here are older (and distinguished I am sure), not having to worry about things younger, or sicker individuals do. I am so troubled by the hostility and division vaccinated and non vaccinated individuals are demonstrating, all pushed forward by the press and government. Keep us at each others throats and we will not realize who the real enemy is.

Unfortunately it is working!!

[Spalumbos62]

Right on the money. Blame everybody but the ones responsible for letting illegals into this country and not checking for the CCP virus.
Great job, Mr. *


Oh please, it's not the illegals fault, it's ALL the nonvaxers. Stop blaming the illegals, do they come across the boarder not vacinated, yes...but their percentage compared to the moranic nonvaxers is minimal.
I believe if you adamantly refuse the vaccine and you end up sick, then insurance should refuse to cover.(please let's not compare to smokers and obese, that's another issue by itself) this is a pandemic people-act responsible.

[Spalumbos62]

People should try a few of the English-language newspaper websites of some of the European capitals and other major cities. They all have them. The Sydney Morning Herald provides some interesting ongoing coverage as well. Most of them, including al-Jazeera, provide information and in-depth coverage on the anti-mask and -vaccine rallies, and the reasons behind them, that we just don't get over here. In particular, a line from today's edition of the Sydney Morning Herald about the reasons for the demonstrations, at least in the some-dozen places in Australia where they are taking place, sums it up briefly and succinctly: "Let us think for ourselves".

Impugning the messenger because one doesn't like the message does not add anything of substance to the discussion.

"Impugning the messenger "......ya know what, sometimes people go a little too far to prove their point. Things don't need to be repeated to stroke their own ego. When others are rightfully sensitive and hurt by a post and ask another not to continue, one would think that person would show some respect. Not doing so just shows how self centered and selfish they are. I can't imagine anyone not seeing that in this post, not respecting it, not understanding it- unless they just crawled out from under a stone.
Shame,Shame,, shame to that inhumane person.

[Wyseguy]

Hate mongering no one is more corrosive than the NBC ANC CBS MSNBC CNN - rely on federal agencies I’ll rely on science not fear and lies.

More than 170,000 migrants crossed the border in March — many coming from countries still grappling with high infection rates — but the Border Patrol is conducting no testing for the coronavirus during the several days that the newly arrived migrants are in U.S. custody except in cases where migrants show obvious symptoms.

Above is from the New York Times. Where did the poster claiming only 6% test positive get their info from????

[tuccillo]

Let me make sure I understand this. You are suggesting that health insurance companies should begin to ignore their own Terms and Conditions regarding coverage? Since Medicare is essentially a health insurance entity, I can only assume you are also suggesting that the Federal Government should also start to deny valid claims?

Oh please, it's not the illegals fault, it's ALL the nonvaxers. Stop blaming the illegals, do they come across the boarder not vacinated, yes...but their percentage compared to the moranic nonvaxers is minimal.
I believe if you adamantly refuse the vaccine and you end up sick, then insurance should refuse to cover.(please let's not compare to smokers and obese, that's another issue by itself) this is a pandemic people-act responsible.

[Spalumbos62]

Friend; i am unvaxxed, i was also negative for the virus. it appears some of us will not be affected by covid- i'm not even a carrier! before we go around lynching people for their decisions, let's look @ all sides.


Lol lol...you are negative now you say (with a 3day old test) and you could be sick by tomorrow and dead from it by Sunday. Most smart people want to live.

[Bob.Betty]

Blame me all you want, I choose to not get the vaccine and that will not change

[Lil GTO]

No mask here! Never again period!

.
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I fully expect us, here in The Villages and much of the U.S. to go back to "masking up" indoors yet again. The new variant is surging rapidly according to the data, esp here in Florida. Here we go again.

1. We are fully Moderna vaccinated and would absolutely get a booster when available.
2. The only times we HAD to 'mask up' indoors in the last few months was a) in the doctor's office b) on the airplanes.
3. I am still furious that China got away with starting this whole matter. I'll leave it as that.

Are YOU ready to go back to the future with Covid??? grrrr.
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[Wyseguy]

If there is a national emergency, a pandemic, shut the Southern Border. As reported in the NYT, illegal aliens are NOT being tested. Covid is spreading throughout the camps. These infected individuals are then sent throughout the US and dropped off in cities and towns.

[PugMom]

Actually, I have the credentials and experience to do just that, and I know doctors there unless they are also retired. Do you?????

But to answer the question, one word. Politics.

i was about to say you probably already did use your credentials to obtain info,:icon_wink:, & yes, it's all politics. if my actual Dr. came to me & said i NEED this shot, i'd consider it more seriously than if some senator, etc. told me to. so far only ONE Dr. said i SHOULD think about it. there's a huge disconnect going on in some places, but i still think it should be a matter of choice. if i get sick & die i have no one to blame but myself. if i live, then we study the people who CAN overcome it. debate welcome. :popcorn:

[Spalumbos62]

This whole thing is a giant psychological manipulation of the masses. Its been done to others throughout history, this is simply a modern example and done on a scale never seen before thanks to social media and the evening news.
Turning neighbor against neighbor, family against family, tell me you don't recognize it. Animal Farm and 1984 are here.

You only need to decide if you're going to get on the train or not because its going to get much worse before it gets better


Exactly....nonvaxers think they will be accepted, that they can say..."it's my right" and vaxers are going to let them slide. I think people ,especially with kids, are going to stop this madness and it's going to get very ugly toward the nonvaxers...very ugly.

[chet2020]

It's ironic that the people most ticked off about the new mask restrictions are also the ones most responsible for the new mask restrictions.

[Buckeye Bob]

I'm not sure that is going to happen.

This is far from a tempest in a teapot. It is a worldwide movement: Italy, France, Australia, the UK, and other countries have all seen huge rallies against mandatory vaccines and mandatory mask-wearing. We don't hear or read about those much in this country, but foreign sources cover them pretty well.

Is destroying businesses and economies a fair price to pay for further control of a disease that is overall something like 99% survivable? I think that is the question that people are asking themselves right now.

I don't see any mention of Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine. Why are the CDC, WHO, Bill Gates, etc. so against it when it's so very effective. Because it's cheap. Follow the money sheeple.

[golfing eagles]

You say "Despite the new nasal carriage viral load studies, it is almost impossible for a vaccinated person to spread the virus to another vaccinated person.".
If a vaccinated person has the same viral load of this new variant as an unvaccinated individual does, why would the chance to pass it on to another vaxed individual be any less? As an accountant I like to assign numbers to issues. If vaccinated Mary has a Delta viral load of 10. Unvaccinated John has a Delta Viral load of 10. Why would you (a vaccinated person) have a greater risk posed to you by one of the above vs the other?

Because, like most medical issues, it is far more complicated than bean counting.
First of all, that vaccinated person has to be a "breakthrough" case, and that number is very low
Then, because the vaccinated person has antibodies to the virus, it is certainly possible, if not likely, that any viral particles transferred are much less likely to infect anyone.
Then, even if active virus is transferred, it has to be a susceptible host---ie: the unvaccinated
So the chances are quite low---I went through all the math on another similar thread.

[Buckeye Bob]

Government subsidies? Hmmmm. Are you suggesting only those who receive government subsidies be forced to get vaccinated? As you say, for the economy. What next, sterilization or your "subsidies" are cut off?
The news plan to sow panic is certainly working.

Agree 100%. Follow the money sheeple.

[WindyCityzen]

I wanted to punch the face of the smug Alabama Governor. For 18 months she, most Republicans, and Fox would not do anything about the virus and reticuled those who did — and now that 95% of the deaths are the unvaccinated she shames her ignorant base into getting the vax!? What a hypocrite. And a murderer. Let ‘em die long, lingering deaths.

[Dantes]

Not in Free Florida

[Wyseguy]

Because, like most medical issues, it is far more complicated than bean counting.
First of all, that vaccinated person has to be a "breakthrough" case, and that number is very low
Then, because the vaccinated person has antibodies to the virus, it is certainly possible, if not likely, that any viral particles transferred are much less likely to infect anyone.
Then, even if active virus is transferred, it has to be a susceptible host---ie: the unvaccinated
So the chances are quite low---I went through all the math on another similar thread.

Not looking to argue for the sake or being disagreeable, but I fail to follow your thinking. A vaccinated person with a Delta Variant viral load is a breakthrough case. It really has nothing to do with what we are discussing. The comment made, was that a vaccinated person has a much lower chance of catching the delta variant from a vaccinated person with the same viral load as an unvaccinated person.
To your second point, are you suggesting a vaccinated person with a positive viral load of delta variant transmits some type of immunity along with the virus to another individual? That is the only way I can see what you are saying being logical. IMO, a vaccinated person with a positive viral load of Delta Variant covid is as likely to transmit the disease to person x as an unvaccinated person with the same viral load.
Your third point I disagree with as well. The chances of a vaccinated person getting the Delta variant of the virus may or may not be lower than a non vaccinated individual (I know they say the effects are less severe. Has it been studied yet if the vaccine prevents the transmittal of the Delta Variant?). I hope you stay healthy and happy.

[Wyseguy]

I wanted to punch the face of the smug Alabama Governor. For 18 months she, most Republicans, and Fox would not do anything about the virus and reticuled those who did — and now that 95% of the deaths are the unvaccinated she shames her ignorant base into getting the vax!? What a hypocrite. And a murderer. Let ‘em die long, lingering deaths.

Ahh from Chicago, now it makes sense.

[COLTempleton]

I am vaccinated and refuse to mask up again. The mask has little benefit anyway.

[Spalumbos62]

Well, theunvaccinated get the last laugh, because one of the big rewards for getting vaccinated was dumping the masks.

No, I believe it was living.

[golfing eagles]

I wanted to punch the face of the smug Alabama Governor. For 18 months she, most Republicans, and Fox would not do anything about the virus and reticuled those who did — and now that 95% of the deaths are the unvaccinated she shames her ignorant base into getting the vax!? What a hypocrite. And a murderer. Let ‘em die long, lingering deaths.

But, but, but----how do you really feel????

[golfing eagles]

I am vaccinated and refuse to mask up again. The mask has little benefit anyway.

I went through the numbers on a related thread, so I agree, however, we may not get that choice

[golfing eagles]

Not looking to argue for the sake or being disagreeable, but I fail to follow your thinking. A vaccinated person with a Delta Variant viral load is a breakthrough case. It really has nothing to do with what we are discussing. The comment made, was that a vaccinated person has a much lower chance of catching the delta variant from a vaccinated person with the same viral load as an unvaccinated person.
To your second point, are you suggesting a vaccinated person with a positive viral load of delta variant transmits some type of immunity along with the virus to another individual? That is the only way I can see what you are saying being logical. IMO, a vaccinated person with a positive viral load of Delta Variant covid is as likely to transmit the disease to person x as an unvaccinated person with the same viral load.
Your third point I disagree with as well. The chances of a vaccinated person getting the Delta variant of the virus may or may not be lower than a non vaccinated individual (I know they say the effects are less severe. Has it been studied yet if the vaccine prevents the transmittal of the Delta Variant?). I hope you stay healthy and happy.

Well, again it just doesn't work that way. If I find my previous explanation on another thread I will repost it here so you can understand what I'm saying. But basically, you first have to find a breakthrough case to have a viral load. The last CDC number was 0.01% of 180 million vaccinated people. This is probably much higher but who knows. Then, in your scenario you have to assume that the antibodies raised by the vaccine haven't damaged the virus enough to render it inactive BEFORE it even gets to another person. Then, that person has to be susceptible, which again according to CDC numbers is essentially the unvaccinated and 0.01% of the vaccinated.

So, you might be right, IF, we only discuss vaccinated people with a viral load that is just as contagious despite being in the presence of antibody in the vaccinated person transmitting COVID to an unvaccinated person. Not a real common scenario since the number of breakthrough cases is low (as of today, who knows what tomorrow brings)

[Maryland Girl]

I went through the numbers on a related thread, so I agree, however, we may not get that choice

If vaccines work then why are masks mandated? If vaccines don't work, then why are vaccines mandated?

Many of our schools have become prisons and our children biological hazards. Why?

[Rose Ann Vinci Igoe]

Control. The govern loves control. They also like a distraction. But they could care less about Americans, like letting all those unvaccinated illegals just walk into our country for votes.

How many deaths from the flu in the past year?

Really, now we are blaming the immigrants unvaccinated ! Lets start where it belongs... how about OUR OWN UNVACCINATED LEGALS that refuse to be a part of the solution instead of THE PROBLEM.

[Boomer]

Exactly....nonvaxers think they will be accepted, that they can say..."it's my right" and vaxers are going to let them slide. I think people ,especially with kids, are going to stop this madness and it's going to get very ugly toward the nonvaxers...very ugly.


I am with you.

The psychology of those who cling to dysinformation would be fascinating if the rest of us did not have to be among those walking incubators. (Yes, I use ‘dys’ as the prefix rather than ‘mis’ because it is the more appropriate prefix.)

In one of my social groups, there is a woman who told me over a year ago that she knew the virus was being overstated because she had heard her. . .uh. . . how should I say this. ..uh, cult-leader (?) speak about it on television and that she “loved” him. Yep. She said she “loved” him on his previous television show, too.

Anyway, later on, she was hospitalized for Covid.

I saw her recently, for the first time in a long time. She had always been one of those women who is very put-together, accessorized, dressed to the nines, and her hair was professionally colored, beautifully. But now she has aged far more than a year should show, her hair is brittle and fragile, and her hairstylist told her she is seeing that hair-effect with those who have had a bad bout with Covid. Her colorist actually suggested she stop coloring her hair. (gasp)

She also told me that she is having a hard time getting past feeling generally not-so-good.

AND YET — she launched in to a thing about “freedom” — spouting all those canned phrases that have been programmed into her.

I wanted to say, “Well, you look like hell and you once looked damned good and you just blamed Covid and now you still cannot connect the dots??”

But I did not say that. I just privately decided to avoid her socially.

Damn. She has caused me to turn into one of those mean girls from high school. (sigh)

Boomer

[Maryland Girl]

Really, now we are blaming the immigrants unvaccinated ! Lets start where it belongs... how about OUR OWN UNVACCINATED LEGALS that refuse to be a part of the solution instead of THE PROBLEM.

By 'legals' do you mean American citizens?

[golfing eagles]

Really, now we are blaming the immigrants unvaccinated ! Lets start where it belongs... how about OUR OWN UNVACCINATED LEGALS that refuse to be a part of the solution instead of THE PROBLEM.

How about blaming BOTH???

I guess what other posters are stating is that we can and should control our southern border, but can't control American citizens as easily. I do find it ironic that the Canadian border, which is less of a threat has been closed for over a year, while they pour in from the south. Oh, wait, we have that rocket scientist in high office that stated it is because of "global warming":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Escape Artist]

.
.
I fully expect us, here in The Villages and much of the U.S. to go back to "masking up" indoors yet again. The new variant is surging rapidly according to the data, esp here in Florida. Here we go again.

1. We are fully Moderna vaccinated and would absolutely get a booster when available.
2. The only times we HAD to 'mask up' indoors in the last few months was a) in the doctor's office b) on the airplanes.
3. I am still furious that China got away with starting this whole matter. I'll leave it as that.



Are YOU ready to go back to the future with Covid??? grrrr.
.
.

A lot of mixed messages and contradictions coming from the CDC which doesn't inspire confidence. While the goal remains to get everyone vaccinated there's a lot of reports about breakthrough infections in the fully vaccinated so perhaps it's not effective against the Delta variant? No one seems to know for sure, not even the so-called experts. And those who are the vaxx holdouts who are already wary of the vaccine are in "told ya so" mode. A leading virologist, not an anit-vaxxer be any means, did warn several months ago that the vaccine would cause the virus to mutate and then cause it's own set of problems. It looks like he was right.

[Maryland Girl]

I am with you.

The psychology of those who cling to dysinformation would be fascinating if the rest of us did not have to be among those walking incubators. (Yes, I use ‘dys’ as the prefix rather than ‘mis’ because it is the more appropriate prefix.)

In one of my social groups, there is a woman who told me over a year ago that she knew the virus was being overstated because she had heard her. . .uh. . . how should I say this. ..uh, cult-leader (?) speak about it on television and that she “loved” him. Yep. She said she “loved” him on his previous television show, too.

Anyway, later on, she was hospitalized for Covid.

I saw her recently, for the first time in a long time. She had always been one of those women who is very put-together, accessorized, dressed to the nines, and her hair was professionally colored, beautifully. But now she has aged far more than a year should show, her hair is brittle and fragile, and her hairstylist told her she is seeing that hair-effect with those who have had a bad bout with Covid. Her colorist actually suggested she stop coloring her hair. (gasp)

She also told me that she is having a hard time getting past feeling generally not-so-good.

AND YET — she launched in to a thing about “freedom” — spouting all those canned phrases that have been programmed into her.

I wanted to say, “Well, you look like hell and you once looked damned good and you just blamed Covid and now you still cannot connect the dots??”

But I did not say that. I just privately decided to avoid her socially.

Damn. She has caused me to turn into one of those mean girls from high school. (sigh)

Boomer

You said 'cult-leader'? Why? 'She has caused me to turn into one of those mean girls from high school. (sigh)' I agree, this is a pretty mean post.

[golfing eagles]

A lot of mixed messages and contradictions coming from the CDC which doesn't inspire confidence. While the goal remains to get everyone vaccinated there's a lot of reports about breakthrough infections in the vaccinated so perhaps it's not effective against the Delta variant? No one seems to know for sure, not even the so-called experts. And those who are the vaxx holdouts who are already wary of the vaccine are in "told ya so" mode. A leading virologist, not an anit-vaxxer be any means, did warn several months ago that the vaccine would cause the virus to mutate and then cause it's own set of problems. It looks like he was right.

Jump to conclusions much????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Ben Franklin]

I imagine all those anti-vaxxers might not have been born, if their parents, or grandparents weren't vaccinated in the 50s and 60s. Remember when we all cared about each other, back then?

Maybe if insurance companies told the anti-vaxxers that they wouldn't be covered, if they get COVID and were not vaccinated, then we might see some movement. All of our insurance rates will go up, because some people have no concept of others.

And scapegoating China does no useful good, as we are all guilty of allowing our planet to deteriorate to a point that if COVID doesn't get you, then the heatwaves, fires, polluted and dead oceans, Monkey Pox, or the Mucormycosis Fungi... will.

[Escape Artist]

Jump to conclusions much????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

What do you mean? That's what's happening. The Delta variant isn't the only mutation. This scientist said it wasn't a good idea to introduce a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic for this reason. The virus adapts to survive so then you are constantly battling new variants. How many vaccines are you going to have to get?

[John41]

Blame the rise in Covid on the immigrants? No basis in reality. Another hate mongering Fox news ploy. A Texas politician tried the same reasoning. Facts don't back it up. Texas is way behind other big states in vaccinations of residents. Only 42% of Texans are vaccinated compared to 52% in California and 55% in NY. According to FEMA, less than 6% of Covid tests of immigrants at the US-Mexico border had come back positive, lower than the overall positivity rate in Texas.

So illegal immigrants come from an area where the Delta variant is rampant, travel for days without masks, in close proximity to each other unvaccinated and arrive at the border with a lower rate of covid infection than a state with 42% vaccinated. Do you see a conundrum here?

[GrumpyOldMan]

A lot of mixed messages and contradictions coming from the CDC which doesn't inspire confidence. While the goal remains to get everyone vaccinated there's a lot of reports about breakthrough infections in the vaccinated so perhaps it's not effective against the Delta variant? No one seems to know for sure, not even the so-called experts. And those who are the vaxx holdouts who are already wary of the vaccine are in "told ya so" mode. A leading virologist, not an anit-vaxxer be any means, did warn several months ago that the vaccine would cause the virus to mutate and then cause it's own set of problems. It looks like he was right.

Sorry, the vaccination reduces the mutation rate of the virus, it does not increase it. That is misinformation. Can you provide a link to this statement by a virologist?

Mutations (variants) occur when the virus reproduces. It reproduces literally millions of times in the first few days you are infected. There is a very small chance of a survivable mutation occurring, and so the more times the virus mutates the more the chances are of a mutation. When someone is vaccinated it reduces the number of reproductions of the virus in your body.

One of the potential sources of confusion is how antibiotics work. They work by killing the bacteria, but they don't kill 100% of the bacteria, the "strongest" and some of the "mutated" bacteria survive. This is especially true when people take antibiotics and stop taking them when they start to feel better rather than taking all of them their doctor prescribed. So, it is "darwin" in action - the fittest bacteria survive and grow to reproduce and reinfect.

This is NOT what happens with viruses and vaccines. This is also why herd immunity works, but the "herd" has to be global, not local to Florida, or the US, or to N. America. As long as there are isolated areas that are not vaccinated the virus will continue reproducing and mutating.

It is possible that a person can be vaccinated and a mutation occurs in them, but the chances of that are very slim.

And that is the problem with anti-vax'ers in general. They are protecting themselves by putting everyone else at risk. Not just the COVID vaccination, but the recent surge in Measles is another example of a small group refusing vaccination resulting in a resurgence of a long "controlled" disease.

[John Mayes]

I wanted to punch the face of the smug Alabama Governor. For 18 months she, most Republicans, and Fox would not do anything about the virus and reticuled those who did — and now that 95% of the deaths are the unvaccinated she shames her ignorant base into getting the vax!? What a hypocrite. And a murderer. Let ‘em die long, lingering deaths.

Wow!!! Pretty hateful post.

[golfing eagles]

What do you mean? That's what's happening. The Delta variant isn't the only mutation. This scientist said it wasn't a good idea to introduce a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic for this reason. The virus adapts to survive so then you are constantly battling new variants. How many vaccines are you going to have to get?

What do I mean?????

I mean that what was posted in no way "proves" that this wacko scientist was right. If you follow his reasoning to its logical conclusion, we would never develop a vaccine to anything, even the next pandemic that might kill off 4 billion people.

PS: These viruses mutate in the wild all on their own, the vaccine does not promote it, in fact, what that "scientist" suggested is the exact opposite of herd immunity as we know it

[Spalumbos62]

Blame me all you want, I choose to not get the vaccine and that will not change


No need to respond to this. I hope you have seen on the news where dying nonvaxers beg their doctor for the vaccine and their answer is..
.sorry...its too late.

[Bucco]

You said 'cult-leader'? Why? 'She has caused me to turn into one of those mean girls from high school. (sigh)' I agree, this is a pretty mean post.

BUT a true tale often told and validated by millions.

Maybe mean, but so very and sadly accurate.

Meanness in discussions did not begin with this pandemic but earlier……and just for information, you may want to check well established definition of a cult leader.

[Bucco]

Wow!!! Pretty hateful post.

To a long time “hateful situation”

[golfing eagles]

Wow!!! Pretty hateful post.

And we know she has to "punch her in the face", since there is no way in Chicago, with the toughest gun control laws in the nation, that she could get a gun or shoot anyone:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

(sorry, off topic)

[GrumpyOldMan]

So illegal immigrants come from an area where the Delta variant is rampant, travel for days without masks, in close proximity to each other unvaccinated and arrive at the border with a lower rate of covid infection than a state with 42% vaccinated. Do you see a conundrum here?

Correlation does not equal causation. The conundrum is jumping to conclusions and not determining actual causation.

[Spalumbos62]

Let me make sure I understand this. You are suggesting that health insurance companies should begin to ignore their own Terms and Conditions regarding coverage? Since Medicare is essentially a health insurance entity, I can only assume you are also suggesting that the Federal Government should also start to deny valid claims?

Absolutely....if a nonvaxer stands head high boasting they will not get the shot and basically do not give a s$%# about anyone else....and they end up in the hospital with it...yes...pay that bill yourself...especially when you had absolute FREE prevention offered to you.

[Bucco]

How about blaming BOTH???

I guess what other posters are stating is that we can and should control our southern border, but can't control American citizens as easily. I do find it ironic that the Canadian border, which is less of a threat has been closed for over a year, while they pour in from the south. Oh, wait, we have that rocket scientist in high office that stated it is because of "global warming":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

HOW ABOUT KEEPING IT SIMPLE……BLAME THE UNVACCINATED.

Trying to switch the subject to deny the obvious is,,,,whatever

[BaileyMom]

I am BEYOND frustrated that our southern border is WIDE open allowing people to come here freely without being tested. And it turns out many are Covid positive and yet we are now being told to mask up again. If the CDC wants to preserve what little credibility they might have, they should strongly encourage this joke of an administration to close and control our borders so that we can better vet immigrants.

[John Mayes]

Absolutely....if a nonvaxer stands head high boasting they will not get the shot and basically do not give a s$%# about anyone else....and they end up in the hospital with it...yes...pay that bill yourself...especially when you had absolute FREE prevention offered to you.

Hmmmm……”FREE”? You do pay taxes…..right?