Who are the Naughty antivaxxer refusenicks?

[SkBlogW]

Lots of accusations flying around about this, apparently not based on actual facts.

Lets look at the data by race, from KFF (Kaiser)

90238

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF (https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/)

So looks like Blacks and hispanics are lagging behind asians and whites. Is this because they are poor and lack access or maybe they watch a certain news network?
:)

Here is a vaccine locator at vaccines.gov. There are 50 locations where I can get a free covid shot within 15 miles of my home in rural Ocala. Put any zip code into the the locator and I doubt you'll find many places where there is not free vaccine available with 30 minutes of your home.

Vaccines.gov - Search for COVID-19 vaccine locations (https://www.vaccines.gov/search/?zipcode=34472&medications=779bfe52-0dd8-4023-a183-457eb100fccc%2Ca84fb9ed-deb4-461c-b785-e17c782ef88b%2C784db609-dc1f-45a5-bad6-8db02e79d44f&radius=25&availableAppointmentsOnly=false)

There are some people who just plain refuse to get the jab? First of all, you have a very large group of people who have already had covid. Over 34 million cases in the USA so far, plus probably millions more who were asymptomatic and never tested. That's a very large group of people who already have immunity, and some recent studies show that natural immunity resulted in 33% lower infections.

Effectiveness of the BNT162b2 vaccine in preventing COVID-19 in the working age population – first results from a cohort study in Southern Sweden | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.20.21254636v1)

People under 40 with no serious health problems represent a very small percentage of total covid deaths and are more likely to die from pneumonia or the flu.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths by Sex and Age | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku)

Recently the heads of CDC, NIH, and FDA were asked what percentage of their employees were vaccinated and the answer was about 60% There are reports that 20-40% of hospital workers are not vaccinated. These people are probably more educated on disease and vaccinations than your average American.

People in The Villages who are mostly over 65, are obese/diabetic/heart problems etc are rightfully scared of this disease and get the jab as soon as possible. But you might want to step out of the bubble and consider things from another perspective.

If you are one of the millions who have already had covid, or are young and healthy, you might decline the vaccine, and have valid reasons for that decision. Recent reports are showing that the vaccines are not as effective against Delta variant and can have virus loads as high as the unvaccinated, so the antivaxxers might turn the table sand say "hey vaxxer, stay away from me and put on the mask" :)

Disclosure: I am over 70 with some health problems so I got both shots back in January. But that doesn't mean I have the right to tell young people or covid survivors that they MUST get the vaccine. The whole "antivaxxers are breeding ground for mutations and will kill us all" is kind of laughable. The percentage of people on this planet who have been vaccinated is very small, so mutations will continue even if every American gets the shots. We can't wall off the country from the world.

Hopefully the scientists can adjust and adapt the vaccines, but it looks like this virus is going to be around for awhile. Thanks China!

[golfing eagles]

...

If you are one of the millions who have already had covid, or are young and healthy, you might decline the vaccine, and have valid reasons for that decision. Recent reports are showing that the vaccines are not as effective against Delta variant and can have virus loads higher than unvaccinated, so the antivaxxers might turn the table sand say "hey vaxxer, stay away from me and put on the mask" :)
...


Care to cite a source for that. The only one I have seen states "nasal carriage loads in the vaccinated are "indistinguishable" for the unvaccinated", so quit the spin

[coffeebean]

Lots of accusations flying around about this, apparently not based on actual facts.

Lets look at the data by race, from KFF (Kaiser)

90238

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF (https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/)

So looks like Blacks and hispanics are lagging behind asians and whites. Is this because they are poor and lack access or maybe they watch a certain news network?
:)

Here is a vaccine locator at vaccines.gov. There are 50 locations where I can get a free covid shot within 15 miles of my home in rural Ocala. Put any zip code into the the locator and I doubt you'll find many places where there is not free vaccine available with 30 minutes of your home.

Vaccines.gov - Search for COVID-19 vaccine locations (https://www.vaccines.gov/search/?zipcode=34472&medications=779bfe52-0dd8-4023-a183-457eb100fccc%2Ca84fb9ed-deb4-461c-b785-e17c782ef88b%2C784db609-dc1f-45a5-bad6-8db02e79d44f&radius=25&availableAppointmentsOnly=false)

There are some people who just plain refuse to get the jab? First of all, you have a very large group of people who have already had covid. Over 34 million cases in the USA so far, plus probably millions more who were asymptomatic and never tested. That's a very large group of people who already have immunity, and some recent studies show that natural immunity resulted in 33% lower infections.

Effectiveness of the BNT162b2 vaccine in preventing COVID-19 in the working age population – first results from a cohort study in Southern Sweden | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.20.21254636v1)

People under 40 with no serious health problems represent a very small percentage of total covid deaths and are more likely to die from pneumonia or the flu.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths by Sex and Age | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku)

Recently the heads of CDC, NIH, and FDA were asked what percentage of their employees were vaccinated and the answer was about 60% There are reports that 20-40% of hospital workers are not vaccinated. These people are probably more educated on disease and vaccinations than your average American.

People in The Villages who are mostly over 65, are obese/diabetic/heart problems etc are rightfully scared of this disease and get the jab as soon as possible. But you might want to step out of the bubble and consider things from another perspective.

If you are one of the millions who have already had covid, or are young and healthy, you might decline the vaccine, and have valid reasons for that decision. Recent reports are showing that the vaccines are not as effective against Delta variant and can have virus loads higher than unvaccinated, so the antivaxxers might turn the table sand say "hey vaxxer, stay away from me and put on the mask" :)

Disclosure: I am over 70 with some health problems so I got both shots back in January. But that doesn't mean I have the right to tell young people or covid survivors that they MUST get the vaccine. The whole "antivaxxers are breeding ground for mutations and will kill us all" is kind of laughable. The percentage of people on this planet who have been vaccinated is very small, so mutations will continue even if every American gets the shots. We can't wall off the country from the world.

Hopefully the scientists can adjust and adapt the vaccines, but it looks like this virus is going to be around for awhile. Thanks China!

HUH? Splain please, as Ricky would say.

[SkBlogW]

Care to cite a source for that. The only one I have seen states "nasal carriage loads in the vaccinated are "indistinguishable" for the unvaccinated", so quit the spin

The CDC announced Tuesday that people infected with Delta - vaccinated or unvaccinated - have higher viral loads (meaning they carry greater amounts of virus) compared to other versions of coronavirus. That means even vaccinated people could pass the virus along to others similarly to how unvaccinated people do.

"These vaccines operate really well in protecting us from severe disease and death, but the big concern is that the next variant that might emerge - just a few mutations potentially away - could potentially evade our vaccines," CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said in a Tuesday press briefing.

CDC: The coronavirus could be 'just a few mutations' away from evading vaccines (https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-coronavirus-could-just-few-195538150.html)

[SkBlogW]

HUH? Splain please, as Ricky would say.

Ask the Director of the CDC, this is why they are reversing course on masks for vaccinated people.

[coffeebean]

The CDC announced Tuesday that people infected with Delta - vaccinated or unvaccinated - have higher viral loads (meaning they carry greater amounts of virus) compared to other versions of coronavirus. That means even vaccinated people could pass the virus along to others similarly to how unvaccinated people do.

"These vaccines operate really well in protecting us from severe disease and death, but the big concern is that the next variant that might emerge - just a few mutations potentially away - could potentially evade our vaccines," CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said in a Tuesday press briefing.

CDC: The coronavirus could be 'just a few mutations' away from evading vaccines (https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-coronavirus-could-just-few-195538150.html)

Well.......then we are all doomed. Let's just pack it in and call it a day.

[coffeebean]

Ask the Director of the CDC, this is why they are reversing course on masks for vaccinated people.

That comment was directed to the poster that commented vaccinated people carry a higher viral load of the Delta variant than UN-vaccinated people. What????? That just can not be possible. That is why I asked for him/her to "splain".

[SkBlogW]

Well.......then we are all doomed. Let's just pack it in and call it a day.

Nope not doomed, the MRNA vaccines can be adapted fairly quickly, new boosters already in the works.

[Bill14564]

The CDC announced Tuesday that people infected with Delta - vaccinated or unvaccinated - have higher viral loads (meaning they carry greater amounts of virus) compared to other versions of coronavirus. That means even vaccinated people could pass the virus along to others similarly to how unvaccinated people do.

"These vaccines operate really well in protecting us from severe disease and death, but the big concern is that the next variant that might emerge - just a few mutations potentially away - could potentially evade our vaccines," CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said in a Tuesday press briefing.

CDC: The coronavirus could be 'just a few mutations' away from evading vaccines (https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-coronavirus-could-just-few-195538150.html)

Do you really not understand the statement or are you misinterpreting it intentionally?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Well.......then we are all doomed. Let's just pack it in and call it a day.

The comment did not say that or even imply that. If they say nothing and it gets worse, then they are blamed for hiding the truth, if they discuss possible things that could happen then they are accused of fear-mongering.

[SkBlogW]

Do you really not understand the statement or are you misinterpreting it intentionally?

HUH? That's a copy and paste from the link I posted, not my interpretation.

CDC: The coronavirus could be 'just a few mutations' away from evading vaccines (https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-coronavirus-could-just-few-195538150.html)

[billethkid]

We are witnessing the re-introduction of the fear factor.
With covid on the decline the decision makers were facing a lack of leverage....fear!

Walenski is the new Fauci flip flopper!

[GrumpyOldMan]

We are witnessing the re-introduction of the fear factor.
With covid on the decline the decision makers were facing a lack of leverage....fear!

Walenski is the new Fauci flip flopper!

Here we go again, "fear-mongering" accusation for anyone that says anything some people disagree with. The ENTIRE world is complicit in this conspiracy to drive people into a panic over the virus.

[coffeebean]

Nope not doomed, the MRNA vaccines can be adapted fairly quickly, new boosters already in the works.

I've said all along....."thank goodness for this mRNA technology".

[Bill14564]

HUH? That's a copy and paste from the link I posted, not my interpretation.

CDC: The coronavirus could be 'just a few mutations' away from evading vaccines (https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-coronavirus-could-just-few-195538150.html)

Yes, that was a copy/paste with a statement attributed to the CDC.

But here:


...

If you are one of the millions who have already had covid, or are young and healthy, you might decline the vaccine, and have valid reasons for that decision. Recent reports are showing that the vaccines are not as effective against Delta variant and can have virus loads higher than unvaccinated, so the antivaxxers might turn the table sand say "hey vaxxer, stay away from me and put on the mask" :)

...



and in your response to two others in this thread, and in another thread you interpret the statement to indicate that a vaccinated individual can have HIGHER viral loads than an unvaccinated. That is not at all what the statement said, as was pointed out in a reply to your post.

Do you misunderstand that the statement is saying the there have been some cases where the viral loads may be the same or do you understand that but want to push the idea that the viral loads in vaccinated individuals may be higher than those in unvaccinated?

[coffeebean]

The comment did not say that or even imply that. If they say nothing and it gets worse, then they are blamed for hiding the truth, if they discuss possible things that could happen then they are accused of fear-mongering.

That was just a bit of "tongue in cheek". Sorry you missed that. LOL.

[golfing eagles]

Does he really not understand the statement or is he misinterpreting it intentionally?

Probably a bit of both:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[SkBlogW]

Yes, that was a copy/paste with a statement attributed to the CDC.

But here:


and in your response to two others in this thread, and in another thread you interpret the statement to indicate that a vaccinated individual can have HIGHER viral loads than an unvaccinated. That is not at all what the statement said, as was pointed out in a reply to your post.

Do you misunderstand that the statement is saying the there have been some cases where the viral loads may be the same or do you understand that but want to push the idea that the viral loads in vaccinated individuals may be higher than those in unvaccinated?

Correct, I should have said "as high" not higher. Really doesn't matter though, if vaccinated people can carry virus loads equal to the unvaccinated and also spread the disease, that's very bad news. Something has scared them, the last thing they want to do is tell the vaccinated to start wearing masks again, and yet they are doing just that.

[ThirdOfFive]

Here we go again, "fear-mongering" accusation for anyone that says anything some people disagree with. The ENTIRE world is complicit in this conspiracy to drive people into a panic over the virus.
There is fear, and then there is fear.

I read a story the day before yesterday, that the University of Wisconsin system is offering $7,000 scholarships to University students who have so far not gotten vaccinated.

If this bug is a thing to be so feared--why do supposedly intelligent people need such a large financial bribe to get it? Seems to me that if all those the-sky-is-falling stories were true, that people would be beating down the doors of clinics just to get their shots.

Instead, we have bribes.

Any good reason for this?

[Bill14564]

Correct, I should have said "as high" not higher. Really doesn't matter though, if vaccinated people can carry virus loads equal to the unvaccinated and also spread the disease, that's very bad news. Something has scared them, the last thing they want to do is tell the vaccinated to start wearing masks again, and yet they are doing just that.

It will be interesting to see the particular study that found vaccinated individuals with high viral loads and what the frequency of "rare cases" really is. Some of this might be grasping at straws to find justification for a desired action.

People are getting sick and hospitals are filling - something needs to be done. It is the unvaccinated that are filling the hospitals so it appears vaccinations would solve the problem. Masking of the unvaccinated might also solve the problem, or at least slow it, but the past two months have shown that the unvaccinated won't wear masks if the vaccinated aren't wearing masks. You can tell the vaccinated they really, really need to wear masks and get vaccinated, but the past several months have shown that won't happen. So what can you do?

(Apologizing for the phrase, but ...) Why not kill two birds with one stone. If the unvaccinated won't wear masks when the vaccinated don't and if it's that important to get the masks on then force the vaccinated to wear masks too. "Because we said so" only goes so far but if you can show that the vaccinated can transmit the virus too then you have a reason to force it. Conveniently, along comes a report that shows high viral loads of Delta in vaccinated individuals.

But, "two birds?" Yes. The real answer is to get the unvaccinated to take the shot and stop spreading, stop filling hospitals, and stop dying. Carrots have already been tried with little effect so bring on the sticks. 186M vaccinated folks who have to go back to masking because of the unvaccinated may be able to provide a bit more "encouragement." And, if that doesn't work, you could also determine that vaccine mandates are legal, even before full FDA approval, and start rolling those out as well.

Part of the role of the CDC is to provide recommendations on how to stop this pandemic. They will try understand the virus and recommend ways to attack it, but they can also try to understand human nature and recommend approaches to improve the odds of success. It will be interesting to see the particular study that this latest approach was based on.

[fishon]

S=K,
Why are you so scared?
Are you suffering from some morbidly?
Your virtue flag does wave.

[golfing eagles]

Way too much to read.

You didn't miss much:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[GrumpyOldMan]

That was just a bit of "tongue in cheek". Sorry you missed that. LOL.

Oops, sorry, my bad. :)

Guess I need to chill a little :)

[coffeebean]

There is fear, and then there is fear.

I read a story the day before yesterday, that the University of Wisconsin system is offering $7,000 scholarships to University students who have so far not gotten vaccinated.

If this bug is a thing to be so feared--why do supposedly intelligent people need such a large financial bribe to get it? Seems to me that if all those the-sky-is-falling stories were true, that people would be beating down the doors of clinics just to get their shots.

Instead, we have bribes.

Any good reason for this?

Too much misinformation, too many uneducated people who truly believe conspiracy theories that malign these vaccines, too many people who listen to leaders that have down played the importance of getting vaccinated. That is just for starters.

[coffeebean]

Oops, sorry, my bad. :)

Guess I need to chill a little :)
We all need to. :)

[Wyseguy]

That comment was directed to the poster that commented vaccinated people carry a higher viral load of the Delta variant than UN-vaccinated people. What????? That just can not be possible. That is why I asked for him/her to "splain".

As the Associated Press notes, Walensky cited data from the last few days, still unpublished, taken from 100 samples from vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals with COVID infections. They found that the amount of virus in the noses and throats of vaccinated infected people was nearly "indistinguishable" from what was found in unvaccinated people, confirming what some experts have suspected. The increased viral load associated with the Delta variant appears to make vaccinated people equal spreaders of the virus. Walensky said that the data was "concerning enough that we feel like we have to act."

[blueash]

I will try to explain the viral load controversy. When the delta variant finds you it enters your upper airway where it causes your body to make millions of copies of itself. These millions of new copies of the delta variant are shed into the moisture in the nose and throat and expelled with coughing, sneezing, singing, talking, and breathing.

A higher density of viruses in the shed material, the more likely they will find a new victim. This is why looking a "viral load" is done. It is like considering whether a gun that shots one bullet at a time is as dangerous as one that can shoot many in a short period. Delta is a machine gun, lots of bullets get fired.

The next important thing is that delta seems more successful at establishing itself in your airway. The combination of many more viruses being shed and it being an efficient infectious agent make delta much more contagious. The Delta virus gives 1000 times the number of viruses as previous strains.

Think about what happened when delta finds you. If you are vaccinated or unvaccinated it rapidly begins replicating and being shed. You are contagious regardless of your immune status. If you have antibodies, those antibodies and other immune functions will prevent the virus from making you significantly clinically ill in almost all cases. You may have no symptoms while the delta virus and your immune system battle it out, or you may have some symptoms.

While the virus is replicating [making lots of new virus particles] it may make exact copies or there may be a new variant appear. The more viral replications, the higher the chance of new mutations. In an immune person the period of time the virus is replicating is shorter, much shorter, than a non-immune person.

The new statement from the CDC reflects the new information on the behavior of the delta virus. Immunized people can be shedders for a period to the same degree as not-immunized people. Thus the recommendation for masks which as you have all been told over and over, do only a little. but not nothing, to protect the wearer and really are meant to protect others from the virus you may be unaware you are shedding.

No one, at least no responsible person who understands Covid, has said that vaccination does not make a difference. It saves lives and reduces morbidity. What it does not do well is prevent colonization with delta virus and shedding.

Thus the recommendation now, always subject to change as new data emerges, is get your shots, both doses to protect yourself from serious or fatal disease. And wear a mask especially indoors to protect others as you may be shedding delta virus even though you feel fine. Wear a mask means cover your nose and your mouth, not just your chin.

[Marathon Man]

Lots of accusations flying around about this, apparently not based on actual facts.

Lets look at the data by race, from KFF (Kaiser)

90238

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF (https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/)

So looks like Blacks and hispanics are lagging behind asians and whites. Is this because they are poor and lack access or maybe they watch a certain news network?
:)

Here is a vaccine locator at vaccines.gov. There are 50 locations where I can get a free covid shot within 15 miles of my home in rural Ocala. Put any zip code into the the locator and I doubt you'll find many places where there is not free vaccine available with 30 minutes of your home.

Vaccines.gov - Search for COVID-19 vaccine locations (https://www.vaccines.gov/search/?zipcode=34472&medications=779bfe52-0dd8-4023-a183-457eb100fccc%2Ca84fb9ed-deb4-461c-b785-e17c782ef88b%2C784db609-dc1f-45a5-bad6-8db02e79d44f&radius=25&availableAppointmentsOnly=false)

There are some people who just plain refuse to get the jab? First of all, you have a very large group of people who have already had covid. Over 34 million cases in the USA so far, plus probably millions more who were asymptomatic and never tested. That's a very large group of people who already have immunity, and some recent studies show that natural immunity resulted in 33% lower infections.

Effectiveness of the BNT162b2 vaccine in preventing COVID-19 in the working age population – first results from a cohort study in Southern Sweden | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.20.21254636v1)

People under 40 with no serious health problems represent a very small percentage of total covid deaths and are more likely to die from pneumonia or the flu.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths by Sex and Age | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku)

Recently the heads of CDC, NIH, and FDA were asked what percentage of their employees were vaccinated and the answer was about 60% There are reports that 20-40% of hospital workers are not vaccinated. These people are probably more educated on disease and vaccinations than your average American.

People in The Villages who are mostly over 65, are obese/diabetic/heart problems etc are rightfully scared of this disease and get the jab as soon as possible. But you might want to step out of the bubble and consider things from another perspective.

If you are one of the millions who have already had covid, or are young and healthy, you might decline the vaccine, and have valid reasons for that decision. Recent reports are showing that the vaccines are not as effective against Delta variant and can have virus loads higher than unvaccinated, so the antivaxxers might turn the table sand say "hey vaxxer, stay away from me and put on the mask" :)

Disclosure: I am over 70 with some health problems so I got both shots back in January. But that doesn't mean I have the right to tell young people or covid survivors that they MUST get the vaccine. The whole "antivaxxers are breeding ground for mutations and will kill us all" is kind of laughable. The percentage of people on this planet who have been vaccinated is very small, so mutations will continue even if every American gets the shots. We can't wall off the country from the world.

Hopefully the scientists can adjust and adapt the vaccines, but it looks like this virus is going to be around for awhile. Thanks China!

So, this line caught my eye. Is a resident of Ocala scolding residents of The Villages for feeling safe in our homes? The reference to "the bubble" makes my think that the OP is trying to make us fell guilty for living a good life in our chosen community.

[SkBlogW]

So, this line caught my eye. Is a resident of Ocala scolding residents of The Villages for feeling safe in our homes? The reference to "the bubble" makes my think that the OP is trying to make us fell guilty for living a good life in our chosen community.

LOL I own several homes in TV which mostly I rent out long term. I am not scolding villagers for "feeling safe in our homes" nor am I trying to make you feel guilty for living the good life. Lots of villagers use the term "The Bubble" My point was that since most villagers are 65 plus and many have health issues, of course they want to be vaccinated, but they seem to miss out on the fact that a lot of people under 40 are not worried about this virus nor are millions that have already had covid

[golfing eagles]

As the Associated Press notes, Walensky cited data from the last few days, still unpublished, taken from 100 samples from vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals with COVID infections. They found that the amount of virus in the noses and throats of vaccinated infected people was nearly "indistinguishable" from what was found in unvaccinated people, confirming what some experts have suspected. The increased viral load associated with the Delta variant appears to make vaccinated people equal spreaders of the virus. Walensky said that the data was "concerning enough that we feel like we have to act."

NO, NO, NO. It only confirms that the nasal carriage of the delta variant is about equal to the unvaccinated. IT PROVES NOTHING about the ability to spread the virus. However, if a subsequent study designed to answer that question shows an equal ability to disseminate, I wouldn't be shocked.

[ThirdOfFive]

Too much misinformation, too many uneducated people who truly believe conspiracy theories that malign these vaccines, too many people who listen to leaders that have down played the importance of getting vaccinated. That is just for starters.
The people being offered the $7,000 scholarships in exchange for getting the shot are hardly uneducated. They are college men and women, in an environment where the wisdom of vaccinations is never questioned--yet THEY are the ones resisting vaccinations, to the point where the Wisconsin University system has seen fit to convince them by offering them a VERY valuable commodity in exchange.

Were these people uneducated, isolated, easily influenced by media, I could see your point. But actually, they are the precise opposite.

[GrumpyOldMan]

The people being offered the $7,000 scholarships in exchange for getting the shot are hardly uneducated. They are college men and women, in an environment where the wisdom of vaccinations is never questioned--yet THEY are the ones resisting vaccinations, to the point where the Wisconsin University system has seen fit to convince them by offering them a VERY valuable commodity in exchange.

Were these people uneducated, isolated, easily influenced by media, I could see your point. But actually, they are the precise opposite.

Being educated does not provide immunity to misinformation about subjects you are not educated in.

[coffeebean]

As the Associated Press notes, Walensky cited data from the last few days, still unpublished, taken from 100 samples from vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals with COVID infections. They found that the amount of virus in the noses and throats of vaccinated infected people was nearly "indistinguishable" from what was found in unvaccinated people, confirming what some experts have suspected. The increased viral load associated with the Delta variant appears to make vaccinated people equal spreaders of the virus. Walensky said that the data was "concerning enough that we feel like we have to act."

OK, thanks. Got it.

[coffeebean]

The people being offered the $7,000 scholarships in exchange for getting the shot are hardly uneducated. They are college men and women, in an environment where the wisdom of vaccinations is never questioned--yet THEY are the ones resisting vaccinations, to the point where the Wisconsin University system has seen fit to convince them by offering them a VERY valuable commodity in exchange.

Were these people uneducated, isolated, easily influenced by media, I could see your point. But actually, they are the precise opposite.
If these so called "educated" college people are not believing conspiracy theories then they are scared. There is no justifiable explanation as to why they are refusing a life saving vaccine. NONE!

[coffeebean]

Being educated does not provide immunity to misinformation about subjects you are not educated in.

Precisely!

[Topspinmo]

As the original post seemed to be pointing at non-whites as a major factor, I offer for your consideration a graph which plots the % of persons immunized [both doses] in a county against the % of votes for Trump in the 2020 election. What it clearly shows it that the higher the Trump vote the lower the vaccination rate. This is overwhelmingly the single best predictor of vaccine acceptance, not race, not income, not state.

There are outlying data points, Biden counties with low vaccination rates, and Trump counties with high vaccination rates, but the trend is extremely strong. Note Sumter Co Florida which stands out as a Trump county but a high vaccine success rate, 68% for both measurements.

The grafts are flaunted IMO, Blue counties are more metropolitan areas where vaccine readily available. Red counties are more rural and further away from access to vaccine, neither are close to the target. IMO why so called red counties are at lower vaccinated rate, little or no easy access. IMO It makes getting shots a lot harder. Poor rural American totally different country when compared to metropolitan areas when everything ease access.

[John41]

As the original post seemed to be pointing at non-whites as a major factor, I offer for your consideration a graph which plots the % of persons immunized [both doses] in a county against the % of votes for Trump in the 2020 election. What it clearly shows it that the higher the Trump vote the lower the vaccination rate. This is overwhelmingly the single best predictor of vaccine acceptance, not race, not income, not state.

There are outlying data points, Biden counties with low vaccination rates, and Trump counties with high vaccination rates, but the trend is extremely strong. Note Sumter Co Florida which stands out as a Trump county but a high vaccine success rate, 68% for both measurements.

Spurious correlation.

[Cheapbas]

Why is someone from Ocala posting anti vaccine rhetoric in The Villages blog? The government is not forcing people to get vaccinated they are strongly encouraging it. It’s the same responsibility as not getting behind the wheel of a car after a dozen martinis, you’re a risk to anyone who crosses your path.

[Sheltie-Lover]

This wave is caused by the unvaccinated. Keep China out of the equation. And your data is extremely faulty and not vetted

[WesMan]

Get the shot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lkagele]

Here we go again, "fear-mongering" accusation for anyone that says anything some people disagree with. The ENTIRE world is complicit in this conspiracy to drive people into a panic over the virus.

Yup. It's part of the great reset. History is going to look back at this period as the greatest over-reaction of all time.

CDC is currently lying about the risk to school age children which in reality is practically nil. Wearing masks is probably more harmful to kids than the risks they face from COVID. But, when you get kids used to being controlled, it's easier to control them when they become adults.

[Get real]

Nope not doomed, the MRNA vaccines can be adapted fairly quickly, new boosters already in the works.

Great, we can get new shots every week. The Chinese love that money.

[lkagele]

If these so called "educated" college people are not believing conspiracy theories then they are scared. There is no justifiable explanation as to why they are refusing a life saving vaccine. NONE!

Have to respectfully disagree on that one. Adverse reactions to the vaccine are not being analyzed or presented accurately. The risks to most folks under 50 are similar to the flu. Since it hasn't been around long enough, there are no studies yet that examine any long term effects of the vaccine. According to CDC info, seasonal flu is more deadly to children than COVID has been.

Riddle me this, vaxman. Why is the Center for DISEASE CONTROL pushing so hard to have everyone vaccinated but it doesn't have any prescribed course of treatment if you contract the disease?

[Bay Kid]

Control. Lets make people wear mask again, no matter if they have been vaccinated. Where did this virus come from. Did it cross our border over the last 6 months?

[graciegirl]

Yup. It's part of the great reset. History is going to look back at this period as the greatest over-reaction of all time.

CDC is currently lying about the risk to school age children which in reality is practically nil. Wearing masks is probably more harmful to kids than the risks they face from COVID. But, when you get kids used to being controlled, it's easier to control them when they become adults.

Have you had the shot?

I don't know how history will look at it, but this is a scary virus and it could continue to mutate unless we get it stopped. History may not have folks to record this nasty possibility.

[midiwiz]

I've said all along....."thank goodness for this mRNA technology".

for now, however it's only under approval for emergency use because they have to. mRNA has been on the table a long time and avoided for reasons that aren't clearly published in public.

The other problem with the OP is that this is not a disease it is a virus, there is a difference between the two. Most notably is that C19 is here to stay, that is the way it was designed. Conspiracy theories and not - this is actually a reality which brings me to one other issue with what the OP listed -

IF people under 40 are more likely to die from the flu, where is the dividing line? The flu has variants and is also a coronavirus, to the point that a person with just a flu can and has tested positive for C19.

One thing is very obvious all the forward looking information that does get published isn't really fact it's speculation at best. All the historical data that is published , well if the present and future are speculation that doesn't lend well to the past.

Face it vax or no vax, mask or no mask, test or no test, there is nothing that will stop C19 from existing we will just become "body tolerant" of it eventually just like the rest of the coronavirus family we live with. This is the reality like it or not.

P.S. I will bow out now, as I realize this post will probably cause more flame ups and other items that just are worthless to answer. Have fun firing at the topic.

[Looking for next wife]

If we are lucky, maybe polio, smallpox, diphtheria, etc. will all make a full come back and all the anti vaxers can rest on their laurels and say "GLORY BE, WE WON".

[graciegirl]

As the original post seemed to be pointing at non-whites as a major factor, I offer for your consideration a graph which plots the % of persons immunized [both doses] in a county against the % of votes for Trump in the 2020 election. What it clearly shows it that the higher the Trump vote the lower the vaccination rate. This is overwhelmingly the single best predictor of vaccine acceptance, not race, not income, not state.

There are outlying data points, Biden counties with low vaccination rates, and Trump counties with high vaccination rates, but the trend is extremely strong. Note Sumter Co Florida which stands out as a Trump county but a high vaccine success rate, 68% for both measurements.


I do not know the point you are trying to make or the premise you are trying to defend but it appears to me to be that in the U.S. blacks are highest among the unvaccinated and Asians are the winner of this racial profiling. I voted for Trump because of several reasons, not my adoration of him for sure and I watched him make statements that seemed to me to be almost completely ignorant of medicine and general science. I have seen valid polls and I will try to find one to link that about 70% of this country support science and stand with Fauci. I certainly do.

The people in Sumter county who are older are generally not college educated, but they seem to have some factors that make them wise. I am not at all surprised to see that Villagers have chosen to be vaccinated and they are....approximately 70% of us and I am very proud of that. I am proud of their having the highest credit ratings in the country.

I am saddened by the fact that it appears there are many people due to many reasons who have chosen to not get vaccinated against Covid-19. Younger people are now filling the hospital beds.

[Lynnesail]

Thank goodness you are here.

[Lynnesail]

Thank goodness you are here, blue ash.

[graciegirl]

So people who “choose” to not get vaccinated are evil, stupid, republican, Trump lovers. WRONG! You accept what the cdc says but they have proven themselves to be ignorant liars, so why should I believe anything they say? What you are witnessing here is tyranny and control and most people seem only to happy to allow fear to control their lives.

I appears to me that the vaccine protects people against Covid-19. We should have great FEAR of catching a virus that can kill us. We should all try to separate medical facts and political views. I have watched all health agencies world wide struggle to keep up with this frightening world wide epidemic. In the early days it appeared that China seemed to be covering up the danger. Then we read about so many people dying in Italy that they literally could not pick up the corpses. Then in New York City many, many, many people began to die from this virus. It was too soon to make a scientific summary analysis. People were struggling to make sense of it, even our much credited national scientific boards.

I am NOT a medical person, but early in this pandemic, many blogs and youtube accounts were spreading inaccurate and incomplete and false information from some physicians. Inaccurate information was rampant on Facebook. It became for some a banner to wave to prove your independence and freedom and not get vaccinated.

I wish that all readers would consider calling their doctor this morning or going to an urgent care to see about being vaccinated if they have not yet received it.

[MrZero]

Too much misinformation, too many uneducated people who truly believe conspiracy theories that malign these vaccines, too many people who listen to leaders that have down played the importance of getting vaccinated. That is just for starters.

Not sure it's about "conspiracy theories." When the CDC director lies about facts (covid mortality rate in children vs. influenza) which are easily disputed using CDC's own data, critical thinking people question motives. The problem is we have stopped being critical thinkers and are allowing talking-heads and politicians to segregate us into warring camps. WAKE UP!

[Bucco]

Not sure it's about "conspiracy theories." When the CDC director lies about facts (covid mortality rate in children vs. influenza) which are easily disputed using CDC's own data, critical thinking people question motives. The problem is we have stopped being critical thinkers and are allowing talking-heads and politicians to segregate us into warring camps. WAKE UP!

Perhaps you would be so kind as to supply your source of this being said because accusing someone of lying is serious.

All information I have read does not substantiate your accusation.

In Kids, The Risk Of COVID-19 And The Flu Are Similar — But The Risk Perception Isn't : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2021/05/21/999241558/in-kids-the-risk-of-covid-19-and-the-flu-are-similar-but-the-risk-perception-isn)

The link above is from May, but obviously you have more current information about yet another “Big Lie”

Please enlighten us all.

Thank you

[graciegirl]

Not sure it's about "conspiracy theories." When the CDC director lies about facts (covid mortality rate in children vs. influenza) which are easily disputed using CDC's own data, critical thinking people question motives. The problem is we have stopped being critical thinkers and are allowing talking-heads and politicians to segregate us into warring camps. WAKE UP!

Dr. Fauci is NOT the CDC Director.

Director | About | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/about/leadership/director.htm)

[Jacob85]

Young people are now getting the Delta Varient and are now dying. One of the main reasons people don’t get the shots is the false information out there. Also, even people who had it with no symptoms are getting long haulers and are sometimes left with issues with their heart, lung and brain. They can also, get Covid again.
Finally people who are vaccinated can carry enough of this mutation now to give it to others.

[Bucco]

Dr. Fauci is NOT the CDC Director.

Director | About | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/about/leadership/director.htm)

AND the quote I recall from him in this matter was....

““I think we better be careful that we’re not cavalier, in thinking that children are completely immune to the deleterious effects.”

[Proveone]

Your chart is one source and the percentages are very close. Lower socioeconomic populations have less access to medical care/vaccine. The problem with Covid 19 is not how or where it started but rather the poor/incompletent reponse by the previous US administration. We were warned about the possibility of a pandemic years ago.

[donassaid]

Great post. Thanks for the info.

[Waltdisney4life]

Thank you so much I was beginning to miss my fake news I mean this thread!

[nick demis]

Ask the Director of the CDC, this is why they are reversing course on masks for vaccinated people.

"Ask the director of the CDC". Who said you don't have a sense of humor?

[Bill14564]

Young people are now getting the Delta Varient and are now dying.
Any evidence to back this statement up? Both the JHU and WaPo Covid trackers seem to show that a whole lot of people are getting positive test results and a lot of people are being hospitalized but very few additional people are dying.



...
Finally people who are vaccinated can carry enough of this mutation now to give it to others.

A statement currently without any evidence to back it up. Might be true but as others have pointed out, might be a negligible number.

[blueash]

All good discussions here. I found the chart of vaccinated people interesting in that the majority of unvaccinated are in the black population. I don't want to turn this into a political discussion at all, but what are the odds that most are democratic voters? I just find it disgusting when the the Trump haters want to blame republicans for all of the unvaccinated problem. I am republican and have many republican friends and relatives and not one of them is unvaccinated or don't fully support and believe in the need for maximum vaccinations.
Just very glad to see more rational analysis and discussion other than the irrational, unfounded hate fest that you usually see on this topic.

Scientific literacy it useful if you are going to cite something.. Please look again at the chart which led you to conclude that "the majority of unvaccinated are in the black population"

The chart the OP posted reports that 36% of Black folks have received at least one dose, thus 64% have not. As they represent 12% of the US population, per the same KFF report, that means that unvaccinated Blacks are 7.6% of the US population. 41% of whites have not received any shots. Whites are 61% of the US population.

Do the math. Unvaccinated whites are 25% of the US population. Now tell me again how "the majority of the unvaccinated are in the black population." The title of this thread is Who are the Naughty antivaxxer refusenicks?

Using the KFF data and a population of 333 million in the US there are about 83 million unvaccinated whites and 25 million unvaccinated Blacks. Keep in mind that the KFF data is NOT age adjusted. They simply looked at total numbers. As it is well known that the average age of both Black and Hispanic Americans is lower than whites because of life expectancy and birth rates, it is worth adding that far fewer people of color have qualified to be vaccinated.

The median age for whites per Pew analysis of census data in 2018 was 44. The median is the age where half the people are older and half younger. The median for Blacks is 34 and Hispanics is 30. Far more whites have been eligible for vaccination for longer periods as the age criteria have liberalized.

Again, I will point out that the best predictor of being a naughty refusenik (https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/07/28/here-are-the-republicans-most-likely-to-refuse-the-covid-19-vaccine-poll-finds/?sh=5832cd21735f) is not ethnicity.

[Joezfla]

That's why we are sticking to restaurants and bars where we are safe!!!!

[ROCKMUP]

Some of us choose to not be a lab rat for the largest social experiment ever done.

I mean, its not like our own government would ever perform any experiments on its own citizens. Would it ?
I can think of at least 6 times since the mid 1800's.

Funny (not ha, ha) how judgmental and arrogant people are. I don't care if you wear a mask and I don't care if you get vaccinated. You do you.

[coffeebean]

Not sure it's about "conspiracy theories." When the CDC director lies about facts (covid mortality rate in children vs. influenza) which are easily disputed using CDC's own data, critical thinking people question motives. The problem is we have stopped being critical thinkers and are allowing talking-heads and politicians to segregate us into warring camps. WAKE UP!

Gee, I must have missed those lies about mortality rate in children (Covid vs Flu). Do you have a link?

[Buckeye Bob]

I don't see any mention of Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine. Why are the CDC, WHO, Bill Gates, etc. so against it when it's so very effective. Because it's cheap. Follow the money sheeple.

[brick010207]

Yes. Ignorance. Once you educate the ignorant they are no longer ignorant. But STUPID is unfixable You can bribe them with many t lhings but like the lemming, when the leader goes over the cliff so do the followers.

[DennisDee]

Yup. It's part of the great reset. History is going to look back at this period as the greatest over-reaction of all time.

CDC is currently lying about the risk to school age children which in reality is practically nil. Wearing masks is probably more harmful to kids than the risks they face from COVID. But, when you get kids used to being controlled, it's easier to control them when they become adults.

Great point! It is important that we recognize the psychological, social, ideology and economic risk to our children and grandchildren caused by policies that ignore their present and future well being. They will be our leaders and policy makers.

Your statement "when you get kids used to being controlled, it's easier to control them when they become adults", sadly is very true.

[ThirdOfFive]

Being educated does not provide immunity to misinformation about subjects you are not educated in.
Hmmmm.

So on the one hand we have people in a major University environment, supposedly intelligent people with as much access to information as anyone, choosing not to get vaccinated.

On the other hand we have people here, supposedly intelligent people with as much access to information as anyone, maintaining that getting vaccinated should as much as be made mandatory.

So--can we deduce from that, that the ONLY real difference in this debate is which data we choose to believe? If so, this is really nothing more than a ping-pong match.

[Bella6368]

Lots of accusations flying around about this, apparently not based on actual facts.

Lets look at the data by race, from KFF (Kaiser)

90238

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF (https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/)

So looks like Blacks and hispanics are lagging behind asians and whites. Is this because they are poor and lack access or maybe they watch a certain news network?
:)

Here is a vaccine locator at vaccines.gov. There are 50 locations where I can get a free covid shot within 15 miles of my home in rural Ocala. Put any zip code into the the locator and I doubt you'll find many places where there is not free vaccine available with 30 minutes of your home.

Vaccines.gov - Search for COVID-19 vaccine locations (https://www.vaccines.gov/search/?zipcode=34472&medications=779bfe52-0dd8-4023-a183-457eb100fccc%2Ca84fb9ed-deb4-461c-b785-e17c782ef88b%2C784db609-dc1f-45a5-bad6-8db02e79d44f&radius=25&availableAppointmentsOnly=false)

There are some people who just plain refuse to get the jab? First of all, you have a very large group of people who have already had covid. Over 34 million cases in the USA so far, plus probably millions more who were asymptomatic and never tested. That's a very large group of people who already have immunity, and some recent studies show that natural immunity resulted in 33% lower infections.

Effectiveness of the BNT162b2 vaccine in preventing COVID-19 in the working age population – first results from a cohort study in Southern Sweden | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.20.21254636v1)

People under 40 with no serious health problems represent a very small percentage of total covid deaths and are more likely to die from pneumonia or the flu.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths by Sex and Age | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku)

Recently the heads of CDC, NIH, and FDA were asked what percentage of their employees were vaccinated and the answer was about 60% There are reports that 20-40% of hospital workers are not vaccinated. These people are probably more educated on disease and vaccinations than your average American.

People in The Villages who are mostly over 65, are obese/diabetic/heart problems etc are rightfully scared of this disease and get the jab as soon as possible. But you might want to step out of the bubble and consider things from another perspective.

If you are one of the millions who have already had covid, or are young and healthy, you might decline the vaccine, and have valid reasons for that decision. Recent reports are showing that the vaccines are not as effective against Delta variant and can have virus loads as high as the unvaccinated, so the antivaxxers might turn the table sand say "hey vaxxer, stay away from me and put on the mask" :)

Disclosure: I am over 70 with some health problems so I got both shots back in January. But that doesn't mean I have the right to tell young people or covid survivors that they MUST get the vaccine. The whole "antivaxxers are breeding ground for mutations and will kill us all" is kind of laughable. The percentage of people on this planet who have been vaccinated is very small, so mutations will continue even if every American gets the shots. We can't wall off the country from the world.

Hopefully the scientists can adjust and adapt the vaccines, but it looks like this virus is going to be around for awhile. Thanks China!


Are you also aware of this? Fraudulent PCR Tests EXPOSED! CDC Quietly Withdraws Emergency Use Authorization Due to Inability to Differentiate COVID-19 & Influenza. Guess we know now why for 2 years the flu completely disappeared. Too many people are being indoctrinated by the news media, do your research.

[drstevens]

Lots of accusations flying around about this, apparently not based on actual facts.

Lets look at the data by race, from KFF (Kaiser)

90238

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF (https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/)

So looks like Blacks and hispanics are lagging behind asians and whites. Is this because they are poor and lack access or maybe they watch a certain news network?
:)

Here is a vaccine locator at vaccines.gov. There are 50 locations where I can get a free covid shot within 15 miles of my home in rural Ocala. Put any zip code into the the locator and I doubt you'll find many places where there is not free vaccine available with 30 minutes of your home.

Vaccines.gov - Search for COVID-19 vaccine locations (https://www.vaccines.gov/search/?zipcode=34472&medications=779bfe52-0dd8-4023-a183-457eb100fccc%2Ca84fb9ed-deb4-461c-b785-e17c782ef88b%2C784db609-dc1f-45a5-bad6-8db02e79d44f&radius=25&availableAppointmentsOnly=false)

There are some people who just plain refuse to get the jab? First of all, you have a very large group of people who have already had covid. Over 34 million cases in the USA so far, plus probably millions more who were asymptomatic and never tested. That's a very large group of people who already have immunity, and some recent studies show that natural immunity resulted in 33% lower infections.

Effectiveness of the BNT162b2 vaccine in preventing COVID-19 in the working age population – first results from a cohort study in Southern Sweden | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.20.21254636v1)

People under 40 with no serious health problems represent a very small percentage of total covid deaths and are more likely to die from pneumonia or the flu.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths by Sex and Age | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku)

Recently the heads of CDC, NIH, and FDA were asked what percentage of their employees were vaccinated and the answer was about 60% There are reports that 20-40% of hospital workers are not vaccinated. These people are probably more educated on disease and vaccinations than your average American.

People in The Villages who are mostly over 65, are obese/diabetic/heart problems etc are rightfully scared of this disease and get the jab as soon as possible. But you might want to step out of the bubble and consider things from another perspective.

If you are one of the millions who have already had covid, or are young and healthy, you might decline the vaccine, and have valid reasons for that decision. Recent reports are showing that the vaccines are not as effective against Delta variant and can have virus loads as high as the unvaccinated, so the antivaxxers might turn the table sand say "hey vaxxer, stay away from me and put on the mask" :)

Disclosure: I am over 70 with some health problems so I got both shots back in January. But that doesn't mean I have the right to tell young people or covid survivors that they MUST get the vaccine. The whole "antivaxxers are breeding ground for mutations and will kill us all" is kind of laughable. The percentage of people on this planet who have been vaccinated is very small, so mutations will continue even if every American gets the shots. We can't wall off the country from the world.

Hopefully the scientists can adjust and adapt the vaccines, but it looks like this virus is going to be around for awhile. Thanks China!
As a scientist, I extensively studied the pros and cons of receiving the "experimental" vaccine. I discovered the pharmaceuticals have received immunity from liability, conflicting animal trials where many animals died after several months, the side-effects were more prevalent than all previous vaccines, and the media and medical profession essentially ignoring the benefits of natural immunity. Also, the blatant obfuscation of any treatment other than the vaccines i.e. benefits of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
OUR STORY (condensed): My wife and I were exposed to covid19 on January 26 and both tested positive. I had a runny nose and a two-hour fever of 100.4. I feel fine and still have the antibodies after six months.
My wife had a cough for two-days and was lethargic. She still tested positive for covid19 after five months. Last month she took the five day treatment of hydroxychloroquine with zinc and now no longer tests positive for covid19 and has her energy back.
OUR RESEARCH (condensed): Tons of research is available pro-vaccine, not so much for anti-vaccine, with many sites blocked. Several sources we found were Media – Americas Frontline Doctors (https://www.americasfrontlinedocs.com/media/), www.thecovidblog.com, and the confusing government adverse effects reporting website https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html. I have lost the source, but about 40% of employees at three government health agencies (including Fauchi's) have supposedly refused to get the vaccine.
CONCLUSION: We will never take any vaccine or drug that is experimental, especially where the mfg. is immune from liability AND THE LONG TERM SIDE-EFFECTS ARE UNKNOWN. Also, we both have the antibodies and test negative for covid19. My doctor has told me not to consider the vaccine as long as I have the antibodies and am on chemo for multiple myeloma. I do not wish to get in to a long diatribe about the vaccine, but do your own research, be informed and educated and make the best decision for you and your family. Ignore those who try to build themselves up by tearing others down who do not agree with them.
I hope you found this helpful. Good luck and stay heathy!

[graciegirl]

Scientific literacy it useful if you are going to cite something.. Please look again at the chart which led you to conclude that "the majority of unvaccinated are in the black population"

The chart the OP posted reports that 36% of Black folks have received at least one dose, thus 64% have not. As they represent 12% of the US population, per the same KFF report, that means that unvaccinated Blacks are 7.6% of the US population. 41% of whites have not received any shots. Whites are 61% of the US population.

Do the math. Unvaccinated whites are 25% of the US population. Now tell me again how "the majority of the unvaccinated are in the black population." The title of this thread is Who are the Naughty antivaxxer refusenicks?

Using the KFF data and a population of 333 million in the US there are about 83 million unvaccinated whites and 25 million unvaccinated Blacks. Keep in mind that the KFF data is NOT age adjusted. They simply looked at total numbers. As it is well known that the average age of both Black and Hispanic Americans is lower than whites because of life expectancy and birth rates, it is worth adding that far fewer people of color have qualified to be vaccinated.

The median age for whites per Pew analysis of census data in 2018 was 44. The median is the age where half the people are older and half younger. The median for Blacks is 34 and Hispanics is 30. Far more whites have been eligible for vaccination for longer periods as the age criteria have liberalized.

Again, I will point out that the best predictor of being a naughty refusenik (https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/07/28/here-are-the-republicans-most-likely-to-refuse-the-covid-19-vaccine-poll-finds/?sh=5832cd21735f) is not ethnicity.

I thought it meant percentage of different races. Not total people.

Obviously in this country we have more white people at this time.

[golfing eagles]

As a scientist, I extensively studied the pros and cons of receiving the "experimental" vaccine. I discovered the pharmaceuticals have received immunity from liability, conflicting animal trials where many animals died after several months, the side-effects were more prevalent than all previous vaccines, and the media and medical profession essentially ignoring the benefits of natural immunity. Also, the blatant obfuscation of any treatment other than the vaccines i.e. benefits of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
OUR STORY (condensed): My wife and I were exposed to covid19 on January 26 and both tested positive. I had a runny nose and a two-hour fever of 100.4. I feel fine and still have the antibodies after six months.
My wife had a cough for two-days and was lethargic. She still tested positive for covid19 after five months. Last month she took the five day treatment of hydroxychloroquine with zinc and now no longer tests positive for covid19 and has her energy back.
OUR RESEARCH (condensed): Tons of research is available pro-vaccine, not so much for anti-vaccine, with many sites blocked. Several sources we found were Media – Americas Frontline Doctors (https://www.americasfrontlinedocs.com/media/), The COVID Blog - Official blog of COVID Legal USA. Vaccines are the leading cause of coincidences. Stay Vigilant. (http://www.thecovidblog.com), and the confusing government adverse effects reporting website The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Request (https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html). I have lost the source, but about 40% of employees at three government health agencies (including Fauchi's) have supposedly refused to get the vaccine.
CONCLUSION: We will never take any vaccine or drug that is experimental, especially where the mfg. is immune from liability AND THE LONG TERM SIDE-EFFECTS ARE UNKNOWN. Also, we both have the antibodies and test negative for covid19. My doctor has told me not to consider the vaccine as long as I have the antibodies and am on chemo for multiple myeloma. I do not wish to get in to a long diatribe about the vaccine, but do your own research, be informed and educated and make the best decision for you and your family. Ignore those who try to build themselves up by tearing others down who do not agree with them.
I hope you found this helpful. Good luck and stay heathy!

First of all, very sorry to hear you have MM, but that is really the reason to avoid the vaccine in your case, especially actively receiving chemo. The "antibodies" you have are really not the sine qua non of COVID immunity. It turns out there are multiple antibodies involved, and we simply don't have a good test to determine which ones confer immunity (yet).

There should be no problem finding "anti-vaccine" web sites---just google conspiracy theories, so despite your user name, I have to question whether you are a medical doctor or just happen to have 1st and middle initials of "d" and "r"

Lastly, I am always skeptical of any post that advises people to "do their own research" Most people don't have the background in science or medicine to understand the literature nor make a reasonable conclusion. That's why we have EXPERTS to evaluate the data and advise the decision makers and inform the public. We can't have millions of "Dr. Googles" out there making their own decisions based on their "own research"

And as far as some of the treatments you mentioned, they are basically unproven. And even if they have some utility, they are after the fact treatments for active COVID. Much better to prevent it in the first place. It's pretty amazing that anti-vaxxers like to state the vaccine isn't "FDA" approved, even though it has emergency approval in this emergency, yet point to a whole array of alternative "treatments" that will never have FDA approval.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Care to cite a source for that. The only one I have seen states "nasal carriage loads in the vaccinated are "indistinguishable" for the unvaccinated", so quit the spin

Source please?

[DAVES]

Lots of accusations flying around about this, apparently not based on actual facts.

Lets look at the data by race, from KFF (Kaiser)

90238

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF (https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/)

So looks like Blacks and hispanics are lagging behind asians and whites. Is this because they are poor and lack access or maybe they watch a certain news network?
:)

Here is a vaccine locator at vaccines.gov. There are 50 locations where I can get a free covid shot within 15 miles of my home in rural Ocala. Put any zip code into the the locator and I doubt you'll find many places where there is not free vaccine available with 30 minutes of your home.

Vaccines.gov - Search for COVID-19 vaccine locations (https://www.vaccines.gov/search/?zipcode=34472&medications=779bfe52-0dd8-4023-a183-457eb100fccc%2Ca84fb9ed-deb4-461c-b785-e17c782ef88b%2C784db609-dc1f-45a5-bad6-8db02e79d44f&radius=25&availableAppointmentsOnly=false)

There are some people who just plain refuse to get the jab? First of all, you have a very large group of people who have already had covid. Over 34 million cases in the USA so far, plus probably millions more who were asymptomatic and never tested. That's a very large group of people who already have immunity, and some recent studies show that natural immunity resulted in 33% lower infections.

Effectiveness of the BNT162b2 vaccine in preventing COVID-19 in the working age population – first results from a cohort study in Southern Sweden | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.20.21254636v1)

People under 40 with no serious health problems represent a very small percentage of total covid deaths and are more likely to die from pneumonia or the flu.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths by Sex and Age | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku)

Recently the heads of CDC, NIH, and FDA were asked what percentage of their employees were vaccinated and the answer was about 60% There are reports that 20-40% of hospital workers are not vaccinated. These people are probably more educated on disease and vaccinations than your average American.

People in The Villages who are mostly over 65, are obese/diabetic/heart problems etc are rightfully scared of this disease and get the jab as soon as possible. But you might want to step out of the bubble and consider things from another perspective.

If you are one of the millions who have already had covid, or are young and healthy, you might decline the vaccine, and have valid reasons for that decision. Recent reports are showing that the vaccines are not as effective against Delta variant and can have virus loads as high as the unvaccinated, so the antivaxxers might turn the table sand say "hey vaxxer, stay away from me and put on the mask" :)

Disclosure: I am over 70 with some health problems so I got both shots back in January. But that doesn't mean I have the right to tell young people or covid survivors that they MUST get the vaccine. The whole "antivaxxers are breeding ground for mutations and will kill us all" is kind of laughable. The percentage of people on this planet who have been vaccinated is very small, so mutations will continue even if every American gets the shots. We can't wall off the country from the world.

Hopefully the scientists can adjust and adapt the vaccines, but it looks like this virus is going to be around for awhile. Thanks China!

Any complex issue can be and will be SPUN to support our bias. Politically correct is yet another policy of thought control.

There is no such thing as perfect solutions to most problems and yet we demand perfection.

The vaccines. I recall waking up 5;30 AM 4-5x in an attempt to win the lottery and get an appointment. I won once got in the final line and was told all appointments were taken.
We finally got an appointment, went to the closed Sears store off 441. Truth, they did a great job for this huge mass vaccine delivery. I asked and was told they were doing 8,000 injections a day. Best I could tell they had about 20 stations. I'm sure the people were rotated but, imagine the hand fatigue from that assembly line delivery. All were both professional and pleasant a tough combination.

I did not hear any gossip about it. I did, see hear some Hispanics, heard some Italian, some ??????? Russian and some Yiddish. I saw almost no Blacks on line to receive vaccines.

I understand freedom of choice but most do not accept the freedom of risk that goes with your right to choose. Those who do not take the vaccine, will be expecting medical care whether they have paid for insurance or can pay for that care or not.

Responsibility for the choices you make is a strange concept for too many.

[Bucco]

How so many threads on here are somehow twisted to become a discussion of a persons skin color is truly amazing.

[golfing eagles]

Source please?

"As the Associated Press notes, Walensky cited data from the last few days, still unpublished, taken from 100 samples from vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals with COVID infections. They found that the amount of virus in the noses and throats of vaccinated infected people was nearly "indistinguishable" from what was found in unvaccinated people, confirming what some experts have suspected."

Full reference:

CDC Confirms That Viral Loads In Vaccinated People With Delta May Be Infectious, So Masks Are Necessary (https://sfist.com/2021/07/27/cdc-confirms-that-viral-loads-in-vaccinated-people-with-delta-are-indistinguishable-from-unvaccinated/)

[golfing eagles]

How so many threads on here are somehow twisted to become a discussion of a persons skin color is truly amazing.

And amazing since the virus is color blind

[GrumpyOldMan]

And amazing since the virus is color blind

That is meaningless.

The virus is not making a decision about who it will attack/infect. It is opportunistic. Race plays a part in whether a person has to go to work in close proximity to others. The race has a part in determining who can get off work to go get a vaccination. Race plays a part, the virus simply infects whoever happens to be vulnerable when the virus happens to be there.

I hope this is what you meant because your post seems to imply something else. If I misunderstood your intent, I appologize.

[Pat2015]

Nope not doomed, the MRNA vaccines can be adapted fairly quickly, new boosters already in the works.
So how many non FDA approved vaccines are people expected to go for as part of the ongoing clinical studies where the efficiencies and long term effects are unknown?

[golfing eagles]

That is meaningless.

The virus is not making a decision about who it will attack/infect. It is opportunistic. Race plays a part in whether a person has to go to work in close proximity to others. The race has a part in determining who can get off work to go get a vaccination. Race plays a part, the virus simply infects whoever happens to be vulnerable when the virus happens to be there.

I hope this is what you meant because your post seems to imply something else. If I misunderstood your intent, I appologize.

I was just responding to the post that felt it was amazing how "race" has been introduced into this discussion by so many. I was agreeing with him. Now if the discussion was that race and/or socioeconomic status plays a role in vaccination percentages, that is different

[GrumpyOldMan]

So how many non FDA approved vaccines are people expected to go for as part of the ongoing clinical studies where the efficiencies and long term effects are unknown?

The vaccine IS APPROVED. Saying it is not, implying it is not is just misinformation.

Every medication sold in the US legally is approved for limited use cases unless otherwise specified. You can usually tell which are which, one is called over the counter (you can buy it in a drug store or even online) the other is ONLY available by prescription or under doctors' supervision.

So to answer YOUR question, how many are expected to take non-approved vaccines", the answer is NONE. Absolutely none at all. But, the current vaccines ARE APPROVED.

We go around and around this tree, so my misinformation is repeated constantly.

[Bucco]

I was just responding to the post that felt it was amazing how "race" has been introduced into this discussion by so many. I was agreeing with him. Now if the discussion was that race and/or socioeconomic status plays a role in vaccination percentages, that is different

There are MANY on here who will find a way to discuss skin color on here as often as possible.

In my experience, the color of your skin does not alter or drive your actions in and of itself, however behavior is certainly affected by the culture in which you live. Instead of the constant generalizations, perhaps a recognition of that FACT would help.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I was just responding to the post that felt it was amazing how "race" has been introduced into this discussion by so many. I was agreeing with him. Now if the discussion was that race and/or socioeconomic status plays a role in vaccination percentages, that is different


Thank you for your civil reply, I did misinterpret your reply. My bad!

[GrumpyOldMan]

There are MANY on here who will find a way to discuss skin color on here as often as possible.

In my experience, the color of your skin does not alter or drive your actions in and of itself, however behavior is certainly affected by the culture in which you live. Instead of the constant generalizations, perhaps a recognition of that FACT would help.

True, but that is harder to convert to a dog whistle.

[Bucco]

True, but that is harder to convert to a dog whistle.

Yeah and we are straying from the subject but I am always reminded of those on here who speak of Villagers and how they “worked hard for what they earned” or similar quotes. Of course that is true but how it always seems to appear in threads discussing skin color is astiounding,

I never understood what that meant in the context of behavior. White skin does not predict you will be a good person, a great earner or whatever, not does black skin act as a predictor of the obvious.

BUT I suppose it is easier to just generalize…

[Byte1]

Masks are NOT going to make the virus go away. I have no intention of wearing a mask in public the rest of my life. I tried to be reasonable about wearing them BEFORE the vaccination, but not any more. I am not interested in protecting those that refuse to be vaccinated. I would expect no more from you all if I did not wish vaccination. I do not get the flu shot and have never had the flu, but I would not blame you if or when I do ever catch the flu.. It is my responsibility, not anyone else's. Do not force me to wear a mask when I cannot catch the virus or transmit it. If I knew that I was going to have to wear a mask the rest of my life, I would never have gotten vaccinated. We are sending a great message to folks by telling them that they will still have to wear a mask after getting vaccinated to protect them from infection.
Common sense anyone?

[graciegirl]

So how many non FDA approved vaccines are people expected to go for as part of the ongoing clinical studies where the efficiencies and long term effects are unknown?

It seemed pretty clear to me and I am not a medical person. I had the choice to take a chance on the vaccine offered to me or take a chance on pretty bad odds of dying if I caught it, due to my age. At my age, roughly one in ten were dying of Covid-19.

Since I am 81 I wasn't at all worried about the long term effects of the vaccine.

I may have viewed it far differently had I been of child bearing age.

I am grateful for the Moderna that my husband and I took and the Pfizer that our Helene took and the fact that our grandchildren and daughter and son in law were also vaccinated.

At no time was I FEARful. I had the choice to self isolate and I had some boon companions. I also had plenty of things to do to occupy my mind and to enjoy. I must admit I was so happy when the news came that we could get the vaccine.

Sometimes we have to decide to trust others. I see NO reason by the Center for Disease Control would have an agenda to harm us. Dr. Fauci is well known and respected in his field and has served under both parties and respected by both until this one.

I did a little reading and the initial person chosen as director of National Public Health was criticized during the pandemic in the early 1900's for sounding the alarm that ships were coming into San Francisco with dead people aboard and he said that something new was killing these people. He was the recipient of many scathing attacks from those in power in Washington D.C. at the time.

I will try to find that article again.

[ThirdOfFive]

Masks are NOT going to make the virus go away. I have no intention of wearing a mask in public the rest of my life. I tried to be reasonable about wearing them BEFORE the vaccination, but not any more. I am not interested in protecting those that refuse to be vaccinated. I would expect no more from you all if I did not wish vaccination. I do not get the flu shot and have never had the flu, but I would not blame you if or when I do ever catch the flu.. It is my responsibility, not anyone else's. Do not force me to wear a mask when I cannot catch the virus or transmit it. If I knew that I was going to have to wear a mask the rest of my life, I would never have gotten vaccinated. We are sending a great message to folks by telling them that they will still have to wear a mask after getting vaccinated to protect them from infection.
Common sense anyone?
Well said.

[GrumpyOldMan]

It seemed pretty clear to me and I am not a medical person. I had the choice to take a chance on the vaccine offered to me or take a chance on pretty bad odds of dying if I caught it, due to my age. At my age, roughly one in ten were dying of Covid-19.

Since I am 81 I wasn't at all worried about the long term effects of the vaccine.

I may have viewed it far differently had I been of child bearing age.

I am grateful for the Moderna that my husband and I took and the Pfizer that our Helene took and the fact that our grandchildren and daughter and son in law were also vaccinated.

At no time was I FEARful. I had the choice to self isolate and I had some boon companions. I also had plenty of things to do to occupy my mind and to enjoy. I must admit I was so happy when the news came that we could get the vaccine.

Sometimes we have to decide to trust others. I see NO reason by the Center for Disease Control would have an agenda to harm us. Dr. Fauci is well known and respected in his field and has served under both parties and respected by both until this one.

I did a little reading and the initial person chosen as director of National Public Health was criticized during the pandemic in the early 1900's for sounding the alarm that ships were coming into San Francisco with dead people aboard and he said that something new was killing these people. He was the recipient of many scathing attacks from those in power in Washington D.C. at the time.

I will try to find that article again.

I really love your posts - so sensible.

This one reminded me of the old adage, "The more things change, the more they stay the same"...

It's not just pandemics - google "The Mexican Repatriation" in 1930s. Amazing how similar (actually in some ways worse) to today.

[graciegirl]

I really love your posts - so sensible.

This one reminded me of the old adage, "The more things change, the more they stay the same"...

It's not just pandemics - google "The Mexican Repatriation" in 1930s. Amazing how similar (actually in some ways worse) to today.

Thank you.

I found this article while looking for the one on Dr. Kinyoun.

San Francisco plague of 1900–1904 - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_plague_of_1900%E2%80%931904#Infectio n)

[LiverpoolWalrus]

"As the Associated Press notes, Walensky cited data from the last few days, still unpublished, taken from 100 samples from vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals with COVID infections. They found that the amount of virus in the noses and throats of vaccinated infected people was nearly "indistinguishable" from what was found in unvaccinated people, confirming what some experts have suspected."

Full reference:

CDC Confirms That Viral Loads In Vaccinated People With Delta May Be Infectious, So Masks Are Necessary (https://sfist.com/2021/07/27/cdc-confirms-that-viral-loads-in-vaccinated-people-with-delta-are-indistinguishable-from-unvaccinated/)

This is puzzling. Is there any reason to believe that nasal viral load in the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated should be different regardless of Covid variant - whether it's the original, alpha, South African, etc.?

The nostrils and throat are the point of entry before the vaccine works its magic. But the vaccine shouldn't have any effect on the initial exposure load, or does it? I don't believe the vaccines have the ability to kill the virus on initial contact, but maybe I'm wrong.

That said, let's ignore the fact that the Delta variant is much more contagious for a moment. If the more subtle variants can be transmitted by droplets in the UNvaccinated's respiratory system, why shouldn't droplets in the vaccinated be just as prone to transmission, contrary to what the CDC and WHO has said?

And if they are indeed equally transmissible, that would explain why a much more contagious variant (Delta) is wreaking such havoc.

[graciegirl]

This is not the first time that politics and race have entered into the discussion of a pandemic.

Dr. Kinyoun went on to become the first national director of public health.

Plague of Kinyounism: The Caricatures of Bacteriology in 1900 San Francisco | Social History of Medicine | Oxford Academic (https://academic.oup.com/shm/article-abstract/33/2/489/5032568)

[Byte1]

So how many non FDA approved vaccines are people expected to go for as part of the ongoing clinical studies where the efficiencies and long term effects are unknown?

For crying out loud, how many folks are going to continue with the "vaccine has not been approved?" Of course it's been approved.
How many folks does anyone on here know that have died from the vaccination? I bet a lot of us know folks that have died that did NOT get vaccinated. Maybe it hadn't been "approved" at the time they were infected? Go ahead and take a chance. After all, most folks on here have lived a long life and are ready to go soon, anyway. Right? Take a chance with those few years you have left. I wonder how many on here are just hoping for a few more years, months, days with their spouse or children. Those are the ones that are hoping that the vaccine is their miracle that will prolong their lives a little bit longer. Others are worried that their might be long term effects from the vaccine. Why? Because you feel that 30 years from now, you might be affected?
You are NOT taking a chance by getting the shot. You are taking a chance NOT getting the shot. Ever heard of the game called Russian roulette? Someone takes a revolver and puts one bullet in it and spins the cylinder. Then you aim it at yourself and pull the trigger with the hope that the firing pin falls on one of the five empty cylinders. Think of the vaccine as a totally empty revolver and the idea of not getting the shot as one cylinder with a bullet in it. Do you wish to take the chance or the guarantee?

[Bucco]

Thank you.

I found this article while looking for the one on Dr. Kinyoun.

San Francisco plague of 1900–1904 - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_plague_of_1900%E2%80%931904#Infectio n)

Great article.

It refers to ethnicity, not skin color as a source.

[GrumpyOldMan]

That said, let's ignore the fact that the Delta variant is much more contagious for a moment. If the more subtle variants can be transmitted by droplets in the UNvaccinated's respiratory system, why shouldn't droplets in the vaccinated be just as prone to transmission, contrary to what the CDC and WHO has said?

And if they are indeed equally transmissible, that would explain why a much more contagious variant (Delta) is wreaking such havoc.

Why would I even begin to try to second guess people that have spent their entire lives studying and working in a field? And then draw a conclusion based on nothing except "common sense" which is almost always wrong.

Armchair coaching is fine when talking about basketball or football, but when millions of lives are at stake, I will listen to experts. They may not be perfect, they may make mistakes, they may even change their minds, but they KNOW one help of a lot more than I do. So, no thank you, I will not make a guess or supposition.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Thank you.

I found this article while looking for the one on Dr. Kinyoun.

San Francisco plague of 1900–1904 - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_plague_of_1900%E2%80%931904#Infectio n)

Thank you

[John41]

Scientific literacy it useful if you are going to cite something.. Please look again at the chart which led you to conclude that "the majority of unvaccinated are in the black population"

The chart the OP posted reports that 36% of Black folks have received at least one dose, thus 64% have not. As they represent 12% of the US population, per the same KFF report, that means that unvaccinated Blacks are 7.6% of the US population. 41% of whites have not received any shots. Whites are 61% of the US population.

Do the math. Unvaccinated whites are 25% of the US population. Now tell me again how "the majority of the unvaccinated are in the black population." The title of this thread is Who are the Naughty antivaxxer refusenicks?

Using the KFF data and a population of 333 million in the US there are about 83 million unvaccinated whites and 25 million unvaccinated Blacks. Keep in mind that the KFF data is NOT age adjusted. They simply looked at total numbers. As it is well known that the average age of both Black and Hispanic Americans is lower than whites because of life expectancy and birth rates, it is worth adding that far fewer people of color have qualified to be vaccinated.

The median age for whites per Pew analysis of census data in 2018 was 44. The median is the age where half the people are older and half younger. The median for Blacks is 34 and Hispanics is 30. Far more whites have been eligible for vaccination for longer periods as the age criteria have liberalized.

Again, I will point out that the best predictor of being a naughty refusenik (https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/07/28/here-are-the-republicans-most-likely-to-refuse-the-covid-19-vaccine-poll-finds/?sh=5832cd21735f) is not ethnicity.

Statistics error on your part. You adjust blacks percentage unvaccinated by their percent of population but your poll doesn’t adjust for the fact that Republicans are only 25% of the adult population. Also your poll fails to mention how it deals with the bias of non response a lesson that should have learned in 2016. But your real motive in this “poll” was to slip a political statement past the moderators.

[golfing eagles]

This is puzzling. Is there any reason to believe that nasal viral load in the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated should be different regardless of Covid variant - whether it's the original, alpha, South African, etc.?

The nostrils and throat are the point of entry before the vaccine works its magic. But the vaccine shouldn't have any effect on the initial exposure load, or does it? I don't believe the vaccines have the ability to kill the virus on initial contact, but maybe I'm wrong.

That said, let's ignore the fact that the Delta variant is much more contagious for a moment. If the more subtle variants can be transmitted by droplets in the UNvaccinated's respiratory system, why shouldn't droplets in the vaccinated be just as prone to transmission, contrary to what the CDC and WHO has said?

And if they are indeed equally transmissible, that would explain why a much more contagious variant (Delta) is wreaking such havoc.

Think of it this way----the original is the father and the variants are his children, lets say all brothers. They share a lot of DNA, but one may be a great poet, another have a great singing voice, another a great golfer.

Likewise, some may result in higher viral loads, some may get killed earlier in the attempted infection process, some may get fatally damaged with early contact and rendered incapable of infecting others. We just don't know which is which at this point.

So the droplets from a vaccinated individual might be less infectious. But also remember, the only way this nasal carriage is an issue in the vaccinated is in a breakthrough case, which is a small percentage. The rest of the vaccinated are not carrying the virus (we think for now). And also, even for the small percentage of the vaccinated that can spread the virus, they have to find a susceptible host (generally an unvaccinated person). And that is why the CDC guidance to have vaccinated individuals "mask up" is , well, questionable. (I was going to say a joke, but there are many who have lost a loved one and I wouldn't want to offend them)

[blueash]

Statistics error on your part. You adjust blacks percentage unvaccinated by their percent of population but your poll doesn’t adjust for the fact that Republicans are only 25% of the adult population. Also your poll fails to mention how it deals with the bias of non response a lesson Hillary Clinton learned in 2016. But your real motive in this “poll” was to slip a political statement past the moderators.

You are wrong. There is no adjustment for political party in any racial or ethnic group. Read what I wrote again, and do the math yourself. I made absolutely zero comment about the political party of the vaccine refusers in the post you quoted. If you are interested in how political party alters vaccine acceptance, there is data available. I did link to a report examining vaccine refusers. It is not "my poll", it is not a poll at all. "An ongoing research project tracking the public’s attitudes and experiences with COVID-19 vaccinations."

For further edification, if you are interested and capable, I'd recommend reading another report from KFF. (https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/dashboard/kff-covid-19-vaccine-monitor-dashboard/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlr7n1OeI8gIVQYSGCh2zyAwgEAAYASA AEgKHUPD_BwE)

It examines the attitude and reasons of those who have not been vaccinated. An important, very important, variable examined is people who report they are hesitant awaiting more information [these are people who have been waiting but eventually mostly getting shots] vs those who refuse and have no intention of getting a shot no matter what. Data is available. Interpretation is not difficult.

[coffeebean]

Any evidence to back this statement up? Both the JHU and WaPo Covid trackers seem to show that a whole lot of people are getting positive test results and a lot of people are being hospitalized but very few additional people are dying.




A statement currently without any evidence to back it up. Might be true but as others have pointed out, might be a negligible number.

Certainly not a super spreader by vaccinated people as someone posted up thread. I tried just now to respond to that absurd information but evidently that post was zapped as I was not able to access it to respond to it. Such misinformation is so dangerous in these uncertain times.

[jimjamuser]

There is fear, and then there is fear.

I read a story the day before yesterday, that the University of Wisconsin system is offering $7,000 scholarships to University students who have so far not gotten vaccinated.

If this bug is a thing to be so feared--why do supposedly intelligent people need such a large financial bribe to get it? Seems to me that if all those the-sky-is-falling stories were true, that people would be beating down the doors of clinics just to get their shots.

Instead, we have bribes.

Any good reason for this?
Emotions and misinformation can trump (no pun intended) logic and science. We are in Abe Lincoln's "you can fool some of the people all of the time" phase. Soon with enough DEATHS and hospitalization ALL of the people will be convinced to get vaccinated. But, likely by then, the VIRUS will have moved on and become stronger - maybe enough to require a NEW vaccine. Hope the UNvaccinated can find a way to rewind the clock to the days when America was really Great.

[coffeebean]

///

[jimjamuser]

Being educated does not provide immunity to misinformation about subjects you are not educated in.
Misinformation ........begets propaganda........begets dictatorship!

[coffeebean]

Some of us choose to not be a lab rat for the largest social experiment ever done.

I mean, its not like our own government would ever perform any experiments on its own citizens. Would it ?
I can think of at least 6 times since the mid 1800's.

Funny (not ha, ha) how judgmental and arrogant people are. I don't care if you wear a mask and I don't care if you get vaccinated. You do you.

I see this as a huge problem and a road block for us to ever see a light at the end of the tunnel with this mess we are all in. EVERYONE should care. Your attitude is what is going to prolong this pandemic in our country. I hope more people do care and not take the easy way out as you seem to have done.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Misinformation ........begets propaganda........begets dictatorship!

I fail to see any difference between intentional misinformation and propaganda. Well, that is not true, sometimes propaganda is true.

[coffeebean]

Scientific literacy it useful if you are going to cite something.. Please look again at the chart which led you to conclude that "the majority of unvaccinated are in the black population"

The chart the OP posted reports that 36% of Black folks have received at least one dose, thus 64% have not. As they represent 12% of the US population, per the same KFF report, that means that unvaccinated Blacks are 7.6% of the US population. 41% of whites have not received any shots. Whites are 61% of the US population.

Do the math. Unvaccinated whites are 25% of the US population. Now tell me again how "the majority of the unvaccinated are in the black population." The title of this thread is Who are the Naughty antivaxxer refusenicks?

Using the KFF data and a population of 333 million in the US there are about 83 million unvaccinated whites and 25 million unvaccinated Blacks. Keep in mind that the KFF data is NOT age adjusted. They simply looked at total numbers. As it is well known that the average age of both Black and Hispanic Americans is lower than whites because of life expectancy and birth rates, it is worth adding that far fewer people of color have qualified to be vaccinated.

The median age for whites per Pew analysis of census data in 2018 was 44. The median is the age where half the people are older and half younger. The median for Blacks is 34 and Hispanics is 30. Far more whites have been eligible for vaccination for longer periods as the age criteria have liberalized.

Again, I will point out that the best predictor of being a naughty refusenik (https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/07/28/here-are-the-republicans-most-likely-to-refuse-the-covid-19-vaccine-poll-finds/?sh=5832cd21735f) is not ethnicity.


All he had to do was appeal to his cult supporters. Get the jab in front of the cameras and make a big splash like all of our other living ex-presidents did with their wives. All he had to do was be a proponent of the vaccine effort. He did none of that. So, we have a huge group (of basically young white Republican men) who refuse the get the vaccine as a political statement. Just peachy!

[graciegirl]

You are wrong. There is no adjustment for political party in any racial or ethnic group. Read what I wrote again, and do the math yourself. I made absolutely zero comment about the political party of the vaccine refusers in the post you quoted. If you are interested in how political party alters vaccine acceptance, there is data available. I did link to a report examining vaccine refusers. It is not "my poll", it is not a poll at all. "An ongoing research project tracking the public’s attitudes and experiences with COVID-19 vaccinations."

For further edification, if you are interested and capable, I'd recommend reading another report from KFF. (https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/dashboard/kff-covid-19-vaccine-monitor-dashboard/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlr7n1OeI8gIVQYSGCh2zyAwgEAAYASA AEgKHUPD_BwE)

It examines the attitude and reasons of those who have not been vaccinated. An important, very important, variable examined is people who report they are hesitant awaiting more information [these are people who have been waiting but eventually mostly getting shots] vs those who refuse and have no intention of getting a shot no matter what. Data is available. Interpretation is not difficult.

There are several articles here from reliable sources that seem to indicate that black and brown people have lower percentage of vaccinations against Covid-19.

This is not meant to be racist, just factual.

What percentage of the U.S. black population are vaccinated against Covid-19 - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=What+percentage+of+the+U.S.+black+populat ion+are+vaccinated+against+Covid-19&cvid=df545543475d40f4b63f8274e0d5dc28&aqs=edge..69i57.30197j0j1&pglt=43&FORM=ANSPA1&PC=DCTS)

[coffeebean]

As a scientist, I extensively studied the pros and cons of receiving the "experimental" vaccine. I discovered the pharmaceuticals have received immunity from liability, conflicting animal trials where many animals died after several months, the side-effects were more prevalent than all previous vaccines, and the media and medical profession essentially ignoring the benefits of natural immunity. Also, the blatant obfuscation of any treatment other than the vaccines i.e. benefits of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
OUR STORY (condensed): My wife and I were exposed to covid19 on January 26 and both tested positive. I had a runny nose and a two-hour fever of 100.4. I feel fine and still have the antibodies after six months.
My wife had a cough for two-days and was lethargic. She still tested positive for covid19 after five months. Last month she took the five day treatment of hydroxychloroquine with zinc and now no longer tests positive for covid19 and has her energy back.
OUR RESEARCH (condensed): Tons of research is available pro-vaccine, not so much for anti-vaccine, with many sites blocked. Several sources we found were Media – Americas Frontline Doctors (https://www.americasfrontlinedocs.com/media/), The COVID Blog - Official blog of COVID Legal USA. Vaccines are the leading cause of coincidences. Stay Vigilant. (http://www.thecovidblog.com), and the confusing government adverse effects reporting website The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Request (https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html). I have lost the source, but about 40% of employees at three government health agencies (including Fauchi's) have supposedly refused to get the vaccine.
CONCLUSION: We will never take any vaccine or drug that is experimental, especially where the mfg. is immune from liability AND THE LONG TERM SIDE-EFFECTS ARE UNKNOWN. Also, we both have the antibodies and test negative for covid19. My doctor has told me not to consider the vaccine as long as I have the antibodies and am on chemo for multiple myeloma. I do not wish to get in to a long diatribe about the vaccine, but do your own research, be informed and educated and make the best decision for you and your family. Ignore those who try to build themselves up by tearing others down who do not agree with them.
I hope you found this helpful. Good luck and stay heathy!
That is wonderful news how your wife is fine after treatment with Hydroxychloroquine, especially that the drug was administered long after her first symptoms. I had read that Hydroxychloroquine should be started within 24 hours of symptoms for it to be beneficial and effective. Glad your wife is fine now. Also........how can anyone still test positive 5 months after the initial positive result? Is that common?

[GrumpyOldMan]

As a scientist, I extensively studied the pros and cons of receiving the "experimental" vaccine. I discovered the pharmaceuticals have received immunity from liability, conflicting animal trials where many animals died after several months, the side-effects were more prevalent than all previous vaccines, and the media and medical profession essentially ignoring the benefits of natural immunity. Also, the blatant obfuscation of any treatment other than the vaccines i.e. benefits of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
OUR STORY (condensed): My wife and I were exposed to covid19 on January 26 and both tested positive. I had a runny nose and a two-hour fever of 100.4. I feel fine and still have the antibodies after six months.
My wife had a cough for two-days and was lethargic. She still tested positive for covid19 after five months. Last month she took the five day treatment of hydroxychloroquine with zinc and now no longer tests positive for covid19 and has her energy back.
OUR RESEARCH (condensed): Tons of research is available pro-vaccine, not so much for anti-vaccine, with many sites blocked. Several sources we found were Media – Americas Frontline Doctors (https://www.americasfrontlinedocs.com/media/), The COVID Blog - Official blog of COVID Legal USA. Vaccines are the leading cause of coincidences. Stay Vigilant. (http://www.thecovidblog.com), and the confusing government adverse effects reporting website The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Request (https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html). I have lost the source, but about 40% of employees at three government health agencies (including Fauchi's) have supposedly refused to get the vaccine.
CONCLUSION: We will never take any vaccine or drug that is experimental, especially where the mfg. is immune from liability AND THE LONG TERM SIDE-EFFECTS ARE UNKNOWN. Also, we both have the antibodies and test negative for covid19. My doctor has told me not to consider the vaccine as long as I have the antibodies and am on chemo for multiple myeloma. I do not wish to get in to a long diatribe about the vaccine, but do your own research, be informed and educated and make the best decision for you and your family. Ignore those who try to build themselves up by tearing others down who do not agree with them.
I hope you found this helpful. Good luck and stay heathy!

What field of Science did you train in?

[jimjamuser]

Your chart is one source and the percentages are very close. Lower socioeconomic populations have less access to medical care/vaccine. The problem with Covid 19 is not how or where it started but rather the poor/incompletent reponse by the previous US administration. We were warned about the possibility of a pandemic years ago.
That is a good summary for as far as it went.

[jbartle1]

We are witnessing the re-introduction of the fear factor.
With covid on the decline the decision makers were facing a lack of leverage....fear!

Walenski is the new Fauci flip flopper!

Pleeeease, the virus has changed, hence, science direction also changes.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Pleeeease, the virus has changed, hence, science direction also changes.

This has nothing to do with the pandemic and everything to do with someone, once the golden child working for both parties, who made the fatal mistake of disagreeing with his boss and telling American's the truth. The same thing happened over and over with people of good reputation getting thrown under the bus for disagreeing with the boss.

[lkagele]

Have you had the shot?

I don't know how history will look at it, but this is a scary virus and it could continue to mutate unless we get it stopped. History may not have folks to record this nasty possibility.

Yes, I've had the shots. I'm in the age bracket that is most at risk. I don't, however, get upset of younger folks refusing the vaccination. It's a 'my body, my choice' type of thing and I don't believe the unvaccinated pose a great risk to me.

No one around to record this history? A little alarmist, don't you think? And, the vaccine isn't going to stop this virus. It's becoming more and more apparent that the vaccinated continue to contract the disease. Thankfully, in most of those cases, the symptoms are minor. I suspect this virus is going to out live all of us here in TV.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Yes, I've had the shots. I'm in the age bracket that is most at risk. I don't, however, get upset of younger folks refusing the vaccination. It's a 'my body, my choice' type of thing and I don't believe the unvaccinated pose a great risk to me.

No one around to record this history? A little alarmist, don't you think? And, the vaccine isn't going to stop this virus. It's becoming more and more apparent that the vaccinated continue to contract the disease. Thankfully, in most of those cases, the symptoms are minor. I suspect this virus is going to out live all of us here in TV.

Well, the people that have spent their lives fighting and studying pandemics disagree. The general consensus is that is it NOT a my body my choice, it is not getting the vaccine puts everyone at risk. There is the problem with the "my body" theory.

Children are not allowed in class without vaccinations. This is NOT a novel first time ever people have mandated vaccinations to make society safe, in fact this may be the first time vaccinations have NOT been mandated in this situation.

[Spalumbos62]

It will be interesting to see the particular study that found vaccinated individuals with high viral loads and what the frequency of "rare cases" really is. Some of this might be grasping at straws to find justification for a desired action.

People are getting sick and hospitals are filling - something needs to be done. It is the unvaccinated that are filling the hospitals so it appears vaccinations would solve the problem. Masking of the unvaccinated might also solve the problem, or at least slow it, but the past two months have shown that the unvaccinated won't wear masks if the vaccinated aren't wearing masks. You can tell the vaccinated they really, really need to wear masks and get vaccinated, but the past several months have shown that won't happen. So what can you do?

(Apologizing for the phrase, but ...) Why not kill two birds with one stone. If the unvaccinated won't wear masks when the vaccinated don't and if it's that important to get the masks on then force the vaccinated to wear masks too. "Because we said so" only goes so far but if you can show that the vaccinated can transmit the virus too then you have a reason to force it. Conveniently, along comes a report that shows high viral loads of Delta in vaccinated individuals.

But, "two birds?" Yes. The real answer is to get the unvaccinated to take the shot and stop spreading, stop filling hospitals, and stop dying. Carrots have already been tried with little effect so bring on the sticks. 186M vaccinated folks who have to go back to masking because of the unvaccinated may be able to provide a bit more "encouragement." And, if that doesn't work, you could also determine that vaccine mandates are legal, even before full FDA approval, and start rolling those out as well.

Part of the role of the CDC is to provide recommendations on how to stop this pandemic. They will try understand the virus and recommend ways to attack it, but they can also try to understand human nature and recommend approaches to improve the odds of success. It will be interesting to see the particular study that this latest approach was based on.


Well today the Pres says he wants to offer 100$ to each new vaxer. As much as prev vaxered people are going to complain and ask for their money also, it really doesn't matter, ANYTHING to get these people on board

[coffeebean]

Yes, I've had the shots. I'm in the age bracket that is most at risk. I don't, however, get upset of younger folks refusing the vaccination. It's a 'my body, my choice' type of thing and I don't believe the unvaccinated pose a great risk to me.

No one around to record this history? A little alarmist, don't you think? And, the vaccine isn't going to stop this virus. It's becoming more and more apparent that the vaccinated continue to contract the disease. Thankfully, in most of those cases, the symptoms are minor. I suspect this virus is going to out live all of us here in TV.

So glad that mantra and mindset was not exploited when polio and small pox was eradicated in our country. These newer generations are going to be the damnation of our society as we know it.

[jimjamuser]

First of all, very sorry to hear you have MM, but that is really the reason to avoid the vaccine in your case, especially actively receiving chemo. The "antibodies" you have are really not the sine qua non of COVID immunity. It turns out there are multiple antibodies involved, and we simply don't have a good test to determine which ones confer immunity (yet).

There should be no problem finding "anti-vaccine" web sites---just google conspiracy theories, so despite your user name, I have to question whether you are a medical doctor or just happen to have 1st and middle initials of "d" and "r"

Lastly, I am always skeptical of any post that advises people to "do their own research" Most people don't have the background in science or medicine to understand the literature nor make a reasonable conclusion. That's why we have EXPERTS to evaluate the data and advise the decision makers and inform the public. We can't have millions of "Dr. Googles" out there making their own decisions based on their "own research"

And as far as some of the treatments you mentioned, they are basically unproven. And even if they have some utility, they are after the fact treatments for active COVID. Much better to prevent it in the first place. It's pretty amazing that anti-vaxxers like to state the vaccine isn't "FDA" approved, even though it has emergency approval in this emergency, yet point to a whole array of alternative "treatments" that will never have FDA approval.
I agree with that post. I would like to add something to the last part about FDA approval. The way I understand it is that the FDA approved the vaccines for "emergency use" after being convinced by many fairly large trials. Now they have proved themselves HIGHLY beneficial by their success for the approximately 50% of the US that have taken them - that is greater than an enormous laboratory test.

Now the FDA has been working toward FINAL approval. The FDA has to inspect and certify every factory manufacturing the vaccines and that every employee and factory line has a high degree of QUALITY CONTROL. That's what has taken a long time - the vaccines MUST be without problems because lives depend on it. And the public's ACCEPTANCE of the vaccine depends on it. Historically, one batch of the sugar-cube polio vaccine had live poliovirus in them and CAUSED many polio cases. This was probably (?) the origin point of the anti-vaccine sentiment.

[jimjamuser]

Masks are NOT going to make the virus go away. I have no intention of wearing a mask in public the rest of my life. I tried to be reasonable about wearing them BEFORE the vaccination, but not any more. I am not interested in protecting those that refuse to be vaccinated. I would expect no more from you all if I did not wish vaccination. I do not get the flu shot and have never had the flu, but I would not blame you if or when I do ever catch the flu.. It is my responsibility, not anyone else's. Do not force me to wear a mask when I cannot catch the virus or transmit it. If I knew that I was going to have to wear a mask the rest of my life, I would never have gotten vaccinated. We are sending a great message to folks by telling them that they will still have to wear a mask after getting vaccinated to protect them from infection.
Common sense anyone?
The Delta variant has changed things by INCREASING the risk. Humans need to be flexible in adapting to NEW conditions. In a war zone, an army has to ADAPT to survive and win - sometimes attacking, sometimes defending, and sometimes retreating. Think of we humans as being in a war against the VIRUS. We have to defend ourselves by getting vaccinated. We can only attack the VIRUS if all the troops are of the same mindset to be vaccinated. The Delta variant is now attacking us. So we must retreat - back to masks and social distancing. The flexible caveman was the one that survived.

[RonaldJ]

I don't care about the unvaccinated including people in my own family. Hopefully if they get it their simtoms will be minor. That is by their chose. But don't tell me that because of them I have to start wearing a mask again, then their chose is infringing on my life. What worries me is that if everyone does not get vaccinated more variants will come out that the vaccine does not work against. Mid 70's with respiratory problems if their chose gives me even minor problems they could kill me.

[ThirdOfFive]

Emotions and misinformation can trump (no pun intended) logic and science. We are in Abe Lincoln's "you can fool some of the people all of the time" phase. Soon with enough DEATHS and hospitalization ALL of the people will be convinced to get vaccinated. But, likely by then, the VIRUS will have moved on and become stronger - maybe enough to require a NEW vaccine. Hope the UNvaccinated can find a way to rewind the clock to the days when America was really Great.
The reason I originally posted the University of Wisconsin example was to point out the fundamental illogic of this debate as it appears here. The Wisconsin folks, we have to assume, are intelligent people: they wouldn't be at the University otherwise. Some number of them, for reasons we do not know, have decided not to get the vaccine, but we must assume that their reasons make as much sense to THEM as ours do to any one of us. They can probably spout numbers, statistics, trends, etc. as impressively as any of the folks who post here, and I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that they're just as sure they are right as any of the folks here.

The only rational argument that the pro-vaccine people can offer up is, basically, preponderance of the evidence. But even that is suspect: we see scary numbers of people being diagnosed with the Delta variant of COVID, but the evidence as to the death rate of that variant is all over the board: do a Google search and see what you come up with. As they say, figures lie and liars figure. The ONLY common "argument" I've seen here is, basically, that they're wrong because they a) don't have the correct information, b) have been lied to, c) are stupid, or d) you fill in the blank.

The irony is that they, as in the folks at U of W, can say the exact thing about any person here, with as much (or as little) accuracy.

So who gets to decide which arguments are based on "emotion and misinformation" and which are not?

[CaliforniaCat]

Mind you own (neighborhood) business.

[Bill14564]

...
The only rational argument that the pro-vaccine people can offer up is, basically, preponderance of the evidence.
...

(EDIT: My unhelpful comment removed)

That one sentence sums it up for me.

There seems to be three sides to the vaccination discussion: vaccinated, unvaccinated, and dead. Since the vast majority of the dead are coming from the unvaccinated camp, choosing to be vaccinated is the safer place to be.

[John41]

You are wrong. There is no adjustment for political party in any racial or ethnic group. Read what I wrote again, and do the math yourself. I made absolutely zero comment about the political party of the vaccine refusers in the post you quoted. If you are interested in how political party alters vaccine acceptance, there is data available. I did link to a report examining vaccine refusers. It is not "my poll", it is not a poll at all. "An ongoing research project tracking the public’s attitudes and experiences with COVID-19 vaccinations."

For further edification, if you are interested and capable, I'd recommend reading another report from KFF. (https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/dashboard/kff-covid-19-vaccine-monitor-dashboard/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlr7n1OeI8gIVQYSGCh2zyAwgEAAYASA AEgKHUPD_BwE)

It examines the attitude and reasons of those who have not been vaccinated. An important, very important, variable examined is people who report they are hesitant awaiting more information [these are people who have been waiting but eventually mostly getting shots] vs those who refuse and have no intention of getting a shot no matter what. Data is available. Interpretation is not difficult.

Here’s the adjustment you deny you made.

blueash quote
“The chart the OP posted reports that 36% of Black folks have received at least one dose, thus 64% have not. As they represent 12% of the US population, per the same KFF report, that means that unvaccinated Blacks are 7.6% of the US population. 41% of whites have not received any shots. Whites are 61% of the US population. “
——————————————

The link you offered as proof is just a puff piece. You should read it because you appear to have no idea what it says. The percentages are raw and not adjusted as you did above for the blacks. Also the methodology of the poll is missing so it’s accuracy cannot be determined. There is no R*2 given or t or F tests. The population, frame and sampling method is missing. It is written just as a hit piece on Republicans under the guise of ongoing research.

[oneclickplus]

The vaccine IS APPROVED. Saying it is not, implying it is not is just misinformation.

Every medication sold in the US legally is approved for limited use cases unless otherwise specified. You can usually tell which are which, one is called over the counter (you can buy it in a drug store or even online) the other is ONLY available by prescription or under doctors' supervision.

So to answer YOUR question, how many are expected to take non-approved vaccines", the answer is NONE. Absolutely none at all. But, the current vaccines ARE APPROVED.

We go around and around this tree, so my misinformation is repeated constantly.

WRONG. Here is a link to the CDC fact sheet (at the CDC website) for the Pfizer shot (not a vaccine). A similar document exists for the Moderna shot (not a vaccine):

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

In that document is this EXACT quote. I underlined the part you need to know.

FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, which is not an FDA-approved vaccine.

[GrumpyOldMan]

WRONG. Here is a link to the CDC fact sheet (at the CDC website) for the Pfizer shot (not a vaccine). A similar document exists for the Moderna shot (not a vaccine):

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

In that document is this EXACT quote. I underlined the part you need to know.

FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, which is not an FDA-approved vaccine.

You said it yourself it IS approved by the CDC who is the only agency that can approve it for emergency use, in place of the FDA. I did NOT say it was FDA approved, I said it was approved, which it is. Approved as in authorized by the Government agency that can.

But, yes, let's play word games while people are dying because we are playing word games. That is what good patriots that love their country and fellow Americans do, play word games while our countrymen die.

[Cindyd]

A few questions I have for CDC are:
What is death rate of Delta variant. If you look at #s, it's low. Viruses mutate, typically getting more infectious, but less serious with each change.

What is science behind requiring vaccinated people to wear masks? Breakthrough % is .003%. There are 2 studies re breakthroughs; 1 rejected bc it is based on vaccine NOT used in US & a small study out of Houston, that is still under review.
Why are kids being masked?
The vaccine hasn't been tested on pregnant women. Shouldn't they, others that Dr's advise not get vaccinated, people with natural immunity & children under 12 be eliminated from vaccine goals.
Why not seek to understand why people aren't getting vaccinated? Why aren't blacks getting vaccinated...bc our VP has repeatedly told them medical community is racist?
Why is CDC silent on # of covid cases, unvaccinated people coming across our border?
Shouldn't the gov answer those questions?




The

[Cindyd]

The CDC has know since at least last Nov that the PCR test was picking up the flu virus as Covid. However, not announced until this week, and labs have until 12/31 to replace them. Don't they owe us an estimate as to how many Covid cases were miscalculated? Also, is it coincidental that testing reco changes the day after Gates/Soros buys the reco test replacement co?

Also, why zero talk about theraputics? Not enough $, eliminates fear advantage/distraction or don't they work?

Why not transparency?

[drducat]

I told you all so...............:popcorn:

CDC mask decision followed stunning findings from Cape Cod beach outbreak - ABC News (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/cdc-mask-decision-stunning-findings-cape-cod-beach/story?id=79148102)


Wait............

[golfing eagles]

I told you all so...............:popcorn:

CDC mask decision followed stunning findings from Cape Cod beach outbreak - ABC News (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/cdc-mask-decision-stunning-findings-cape-cod-beach/story?id=79148102)


Wait............

Told us WHAT?????

Here's the quote from the director of the CDC cited in YOUR article---

"Information on the delta variants from several states and other countries, indicate that in rare occasion some vaccinated people infected with a delta variant after vaccination may be contagious and spread the virus to others," she added. "This new science is worrisome and unfortunately warrants an update to our recommendation."

So the question remains, why require masks in vaccinated people for such a "rare" event. Are they not revealing something, or are they just plain alarmists?

[graciegirl]

Told us WHAT?????

Here's the quote from the director of the CDC cited in YOUR article---

"Information on the delta variants from several states and other countries, indicate that in rare occasion some vaccinated people infected with a delta variant after vaccination may be contagious and spread the virus to others," she added. "This new science is worrisome and unfortunately warrants an update to our recommendation."

So the question remains, why require masks in vaccinated people for such a "rare" event. Are they not revealing something, or are they just plain alarmists?

I think that current statistics will soon show that it is indeed causing vaccinated people to get sick with a "mild flu".

I have received a text from someone I trust that he has just tested positive for Covid after attending a group at a rec center here. He was notified that one person tested positive in the group and caught it from another in the group. The person I know had had both shots for Covid and is feeling "mild flu symptoms".

The graphs are showing high numbers hospitalized but they are much younger and most are from unvaccinated people. Most of us don't want to get even "mild flu symptoms". Most of us don't want anyone to get sick because of us either.

[golfing eagles]

I think that current statistics will soon show that it is indeed causing vaccinated people to get sick with a "mild flu".

I have received a text from someone I trust that he has just tested positive for Covid after attending a group at a rec center here. He was notified that one person tested positive in the group and caught it from another in the group. The person I know had had both shots for Covid and is feeling "mild flu symptoms".

The graphs are showing high numbers hospitalized but they are much younger and most are from unvaccinated people. Most of us don't want to get even "mild flu symptoms". Most of us don't want anyone to get sick because of us either.

Well GG, this is a personal, not professional opinion, but i think the agenda of the powers that be is to force everyone back into wearing masks for God knows what reason. Therefore, the "statistics" they are going to present and the manner in which they present them may be biased. They will have the ability to "cherry pick" what they tell the public. Remember, "statistics don't lie, people lie with statistics"

I'm looking forward to what the CDC has to say today, and see if it is different (or backtracked) from what they said Tuesday. If so, it would suggest (not conclusively prove) that they are going along with a political agenda and not the science of epidemiology

[Irishmen]

Well GG, this is a personal, not professional opinion, but i think the agenda of the powers that be is to force everyone back into wearing masks for God knows what reason. Therefore, the "statistics" they are going to present and the manner in which they present them may be biased. They will have the ability to "cherry pick" what they tell the public. Remember, "statistics don't lie, people lie with statistics"

I'm looking forward to what the CDC has to say today, and see if it is different (or backtracked) from what they said Tuesday. If so, it would suggest (not conclusively prove) that they are going along with a political agenda and not the science of epidemiology

COVId is nothing but political. Yes I can conclusively prove it. COVID just didn't happen.

[golfing eagles]

COVId is nothing but political. Yes I can conclusively prove it. COVID just didn't happen.

Well, that would be quite an accomplishment. Go for it. Care to share your "proof" (no conspiracy theory websites please)?

[Bucco]

COVId is nothing but political. Yes I can conclusively prove it. COVID just didn't happen.

Certainly everyone should be awaiting your “conclusive proof” about the politics of the virus.

[GrumpyOldMan]

A few questions I have for CDC are:
What is death rate of Delta variant. If you look at #s, it's low. Viruses mutate, typically getting more infectious, but less serious with each change.

What is science behind requiring vaccinated people to wear masks? Breakthrough % is .003%. There are 2 studies re breakthroughs; 1 rejected bc it is based on vaccine NOT used in US & a small study out of Houston, that is still under review.
Why are kids being masked?
The vaccine hasn't been tested on pregnant women. Shouldn't they, others that Dr's advise not get vaccinated, people with natural immunity & children under 12 be eliminated from vaccine goals.
Why not seek to understand why people aren't getting vaccinated? Why aren't blacks getting vaccinated...bc our VP has repeatedly told them medical community is racist?
Why is CDC silent on # of covid cases, unvaccinated people coming across our border?
Shouldn't the gov answer those questions?




The

The implication of your post, by questioning why you don’t see answers, is that there is some nefarious reason for the “silence”, when if fact there is no silence. The are answers, there is information, there are answers to all your questions.

They might not be the answers you want to hear, and you may need to carefully read the answer several times to get what they are saying.

In general their answers have been like, it is difficult to get precise numbers or death rates because things like testing has been curtailed (think political). So, any numbers we (CDC) have are based on limited data and the numbers are probably low do to under reporting.

The CDC is cursed when it prematurely makes announcements on preliminary data, and they are accuse of “hiding the truth” or lying when the hold off making announcement until they have solid valid data, and then they are accused of political flip flopping when new data shows things are different or changing.

There is definitely a political agenda to discredit the CDC. And this is clearly shown when you look at who trusts the CDC and who doesn’t.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Well GG, this is a personal, not professional opinion, but i think the agenda of the powers that be is to force everyone back into wearing masks for God knows what reason. Therefore, the "statistics" they are going to present and the manner in which they present them may be biased. They will have the ability to "cherry pick" what they tell the public. Remember, "statistics don't lie, people lie with statistics"

I'm looking forward to what the CDC has to say today, and see if it is different (or backtracked) from what they said Tuesday. If so, it would suggest (not conclusively prove) that they are going along with a political agenda and not the science of epidemiology

So, you believe in a nefarious agenda that you can’t figure out, but are sure it exists…

[SkBlogW]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;1980591]
I'm looking forward to what the CDC has to say today, and see if it is different (or backtracked) from what they said Tuesday. If so, it would suggest (not conclusively prove) that they are going along with a political agenda and not the science of epidemiology[/QUOTE

I posted a link to the CDC report in another thread. The assertion that this is some sort of political stunt is laughable. Our government is not the only one on earth sounding the alarm

Here is a well written article about Israel, the most vaccinated country in the world, and it includes links to actual studies they are doing. Israel is reimposing indoor mask guidelines.

90253

COVID-19 Case Data in Israel: A Troubling Trend? (https://trialsitenews.com/covid-19-case-data-in-israel-a-troubling-trend/)

[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;1980591]
I'm looking forward to what the CDC has to say today, and see if it is different (or backtracked) from what they said Tuesday. If so, it would suggest (not conclusively prove) that they are going along with a political agenda and not the science of epidemiology[/QUOTE

I posted a link to the CDC report in another thread. The assertion that this is some sort of political stunt is laughable. Our government is not the only one on earth sounding the alarm

Here is a well written article about Israel, the most vaccinated country in the world, and it includes links to actual studies they are doing.

90253

COVID-19 Case Data in Israel: A Troubling Trend? (https://trialsitenews.com/covid-19-case-data-in-israel-a-troubling-trend/)

Not a political "stunt" by any means. I suggested that the data can be presented in such a way as to bias the public toward a desired political agenda, or not. Let's see. Please read carefully, I admit that I sometimes write in such a way that not all can understand.

[Byte1]

The Delta variant has changed things by INCREASING the risk. Humans need to be flexible in adapting to NEW conditions. In a war zone, an army has to ADAPT to survive and win - sometimes attacking, sometimes defending, and sometimes retreating. Think of we humans as being in a war against the VIRUS. We have to defend ourselves by getting vaccinated. We can only attack the VIRUS if all the troops are of the same mindset to be vaccinated. The Delta variant is now attacking us. So we must retreat - back to masks and social distancing. The flexible caveman was the one that survived.

Seems to me that a whole lot of people are getting hysterical over the "Delta" but have not chose to look at the death rate lately. Just because it is very contagious, does not equate to being as deadly. Maybe that will change, but right now the death rate is very low.

[Byte1]

WRONG. Here is a link to the CDC fact sheet (at the CDC website) for the Pfizer shot (not a vaccine). A similar document exists for the Moderna shot (not a vaccine):

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download

In that document is this EXACT quote. I underlined the part you need to know.

FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, which is not an FDA-approved vaccine.

"FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine
FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine
FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine"

Hmmm, isn't "authorized" a synonym for "approved?"
Would the vaccines be released without approval? Would our gov. approve of an "unapproved" medication?

Sorry, but giving the suggestion that the vaccine is NOT approved is a dog that don't hunt. If one needs an excuse for their fear, I guess that might convince some.

[Bucco]

COVId is nothing but political. Yes I can conclusively prove it. COVID just didn't happen.

CERTAINLY A VERY strong statement you make, but still waiting for the conclusive proof you talk of.

Will you be standing tall and advising us of this proof, or simply walk into the sunset ?

Excuse me…..I said STATEMENT you owed the forum…….it is an ACCUSATION for which you need to give your “conclusive” proof.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Seems to me that a whole lot of people are getting hysterical over the "Delta" but have not chosen to look at the death rate lately. Just because it is very contagious, does not equate to being as deadly. Maybe that will change, but right now the death rate is very low.

This is very true. Unfortunately at this point in time, the death rate is almost impossible to calculate because of all the testing being shut down. So, as the CDC said a couple of days ago, they have to assume the numbers they are getting are seriously underreported.

Which if the number of cases is seriously underreported, then the death rate is actually overestimated. But, see that is an assumption - science really tries to avoid assumptions. And without good data it is very hard to come to good conclusions.

[GrumpyOldMan]

CERTAINLY A VERY strong statement you make, but still waiting for the conclusive proof you talk of.

Will you be standing tall and advising us of this proof, or simply walk into the sunset ?

Excuse me…..I said STATEMENT you owed the forum…….it is an ACCUSATION for which you need to give your “conclusive” proof.

He won't. EVERY single post he makes contact with misinformation that has been banned on various outlets because they have been PROVEN wrong over and over again. Don't bother feeding the troll. It doesn't work. It just gives them pleasure at being responded to.

[GrumpyOldMan]

"FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine
FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine
FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine"

Hmmm, isn't "authorized" a synonym for "approved?"
Would the vaccines be released without approval? Would our gov. approve of an "unapproved" medication?

Sorry, but giving the suggestion that the vaccine is NOT approved is a dog that don't hunt. If one needs an excuse for their fear, I guess that might convince some.

EDIT: Byte1, I am not referring to you, but to the post, you were referring to:

EDIT: Grr, all that below is sort of wrong - sigh. My bad: From the FDA itself - sigh...

"On December 11, 2020, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued the first emergency use authorization (EUA) for a vaccine for the prevention of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in individuals 16 years of age and older."


EDIT: The below is partially wrong and partially right.

Hmm, interesting, I don't want to waste my time researching this because it is just more MISINFORMATION.

But, it seems I recall that the FDA can not give "emergency use authorization" that is the domain of the CDC. When something is needed NOW and can't wait for the FDA to finish all its paperwork, the CDC can be requested to evaluate and approve a EUA. If granted by the CDC the drug (or whatever) can then be used in the specified situations. the CDCs EUA was/is posted on their website. It has expired. But, is being discussed being reissued based on how long the FDA believes it is going to need to finish it's paperwork. The FDA has given NO indication it is not going to authorize it, just the opposite.

So, it is just playing word games, technically the FDA has not approved it. implying it is not safe. When the reality is the CDC went through exhaustive testing (some failed) to come to the EUA they authorized. Obviously, not everything the FDA would do was done - because it was an emergency. So, we are not sure if all technicians working on the production were/are certified. But about the efficacy and short-term safety, there is NO doubt period.

So, this is one more of those bits of "misinformation" that are putting people's lives at risk, resulting in deaths.

Sadly, I do think most of the people we see posting misinformation here, actually believe it. Which makes it even more dangerous.