CDCs promised report today:

[GrumpyOldMan]

Well, the other "placeholder" thread got 120 offtopic posts, so to avoid being buried in the noise here is the actual report they promised.

NOT GOOD NEWS.

I can't wait to see all the spin and out-of-context quoting and off-topic misinformation.

But, what can we do. This is the information from the CDC, comments on any topic welcome, even a discussion of why the government is lying to us about why Mary Queen of Scotts abdicated the throne on July 24, 1567...


Bad News From CDC - Today: Jul 30, 2021 (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w)

[Papa_lecki]

Among the 469 cases in Massachusetts residents, 346 (74%) occurred in persons who were fully vaccinated

Vaccine - substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

So 469 people in a state with a population of 6,900,000?

[Mortal1]

comment....the cdc can not dictate what we must do, but only what they recommend. The fact that their suggestions change weekly and sometimes daily only means they're clueless...why you might ask...because enough facts about the vaccine and those who have taken it(and those that haven't)aren't available. It can take years to amass and understand what all the data means.

You are free to do what you please without gov't interference. Masks do not guarantee you won't get the virus...nothing does. Deal with it!

[jswirs]

Among the 469 cases in Massachusetts residents, 346 (74%) occurred in persons who were fully vaccinated

Vaccine - substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

So 469 people in a state with a population of 6,900,000?

But that is a look at only one small area in the state. Not the entire state.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Among the 469 cases in Massachusetts residents, 346 (74%) occurred in persons who were fully vaccinated

Vaccine - substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

So 469 people in a state with a population of 6,900,000?

Uh, no, not of the entire population. Of the reported cases - 469. They can not work with data they do not have. Under testing is a very serious problem.

[GrumpyOldMan]

comment....the cdc can not dictate what we must do, but only what they recommend. The fact that their suggestions change weekly and sometimes daily only means they're clueless...why you might ask...because enough facts about the vaccine and those who have taken it(and those that haven't)aren't available. It can take years to amass and understand what all the data means.

You are free to do what you please without gov't interference. Masks do not guarantee you won't get the virus...nothing does. Deal with it!

Uh, NO it means that they are clued. They have stated that things are changing that as new information becomes available they will update the recommendations.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can demand that experts never change their mind no matter what. That sounds not very smart to me.

[golfing eagles]

Well, the other "placeholder" thread got 120 offtopic posts, so to avoid being buried in the noise here is the actual report they promised.

NOT GOOD NEWS.

I can't wait to see all the spin and out-of-context quoting and off-topic misinformation.

But, what can we do. This is the information from the CDC, comments on any topic welcome, even a discussion of why the government is lying to us about why Mary Queen of Scotts abdicated the throne on July 24, 1567...


Bad News From CDC - Today: Jul 30, 2021 (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w)

OK, I'll bite.

Here is the part of the article that is essentially a disclaimer:

"The findings in this report are subject to at least four limitations. First, data from this report are insufficient to draw conclusions about the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, including the Delta variant, during this outbreak. As population-level vaccination coverage increases, vaccinated persons are likely to represent a larger proportion of COVID-19 cases. Second, asymptomatic breakthrough infections might be underrepresented because of detection bias. Third, demographics of cases likely reflect those of attendees at the public gatherings, as events were marketed to adult male participants; further study is underway to identify other population characteristics among cases, such as additional demographic characteristics and underlying health conditions including immunocompromising conditions.*** MA DPH, CDC, and affected jurisdictions are collaborating in this response; MA DPH is conducting additional case investigations, obtaining samples for genomic sequencing, and linking case information with laboratory data and vaccination history. Finally, Ct values obtained with SARS-CoV-2 qualitative RT-PCR diagnostic tests might provide a crude correlation to the amount of virus present in a sample and can also be affected by factors other than viral load.††† Although the assay used in this investigation was not validated to provide quantitative results, there was no significant difference between the Ct values of samples collected from breakthrough cases and the other cases. This might mean that the viral load of vaccinated and unvaccinated persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 is also similar. However, microbiological studies are required to confirm these findings."

And I would add a 5th limitation----how many of those vaccinated were 5+ months out from their vaccine and possibly starting to lose immunity

And maybe a 6th---how many had the J&J vaccine which is thought to be less effective.

So the jury is still out, I'm not convinced that this single report from a single county can be extrapolated to the whole country. Maybe it can, but that is yet to be proven. What happens is this info gets reported to the CDC and then the question "so what are you going to do now?" arises. So they make a very conservative recommendation. Just as expected'

Oh, wait, that wasn't "spin and out-of-context quoting and off-topic misinformation.". So sorry to disappoint :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[GrumpyOldMan]

But that is a look at only one small area in the state. Not the entire state.

True, only Cape Cod (I think) and only those cases reported. Testing is very limited right now, so scientists are having deal with complex subject and rapidly changing situations and are not being given enough data to make solid decisions.

They are doing the best they can in a VERY political environment. Florida for example dropped from 90,000 tests per day to 48,000 tests per day and are apparently slowly lowering that number. The result - there are fewer cases reported, so it appears the COIVD is in retreat, while at the same time Florida has jumped into FIRST position in the nation with reported cases. Hmm, less testing and more cases... Should tell you something.

[GrumpyOldMan]

OK, I'll bite.

Here is the part of the article that is essentially a disclaimer:

"The findings in this report are subject to at least four limitations. First, data from this report are insufficient to draw conclusions about the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, including the Delta variant, during this outbreak. As population-level vaccination coverage increases, vaccinated persons are likely to represent a larger proportion of COVID-19 cases. Second, asymptomatic breakthrough infections might be underrepresented because of detection bias. Third, demographics of cases likely reflect those of attendees at the public gatherings, as events were marketed to adult male participants; further study is underway to identify other population characteristics among cases, such as additional demographic characteristics and underlying health conditions including immunocompromising conditions.*** MA DPH, CDC, and affected jurisdictions are collaborating in this response; MA DPH is conducting additional case investigations, obtaining samples for genomic sequencing, and linking case information with laboratory data and vaccination history. Finally, Ct values obtained with SARS-CoV-2 qualitative RT-PCR diagnostic tests might provide a crude correlation to the amount of virus present in a sample and can also be affected by factors other than viral load.††† Although the assay used in this investigation was not validated to provide quantitative results, there was no significant difference between the Ct values of samples collected from breakthrough cases and the other cases. This might mean that the viral load of vaccinated and unvaccinated persons infected with SARS-CoV-2 is also similar. However, microbiological studies are required to confirm these findings."

And I would add a 5th limitation----how many of those vaccinated were 5+ months out from their vaccine and possibly starting to lose immunity

And maybe a 6th---how many had the J&J vaccine which is thought to be less effective.

So the jury is still out, I'm not convinced that this single report from a single county can be extrapolated to the whole country. Maybe it can, but that is yet to be proven. What happens is this info gets reported to the CDC and then the question "so what are you going to do now?" arises. So they make a very conservative recommendation. Just as expected'

Oh, wait, that wasn't "spin and out-of-context quoting and off-topic misinformation.". So sorry to disappoint :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Very good point. I do think the CDCs initial disclaimer about the lack of quality data encompasses your suggestions, but that does not reduce what you said.

As I said in the OP - Bad News. Not yet definitive. But no "good news" ... sigh. At least part of the bad news is that we are not collecting enough data to make good decisions.

[Escape Artist]

True, only Cape Cod (I think) and only those cases reported. Testing is very limited right now, so scientists are having deal with complex subject and rapidly changing situations and are not being given enough data to make solid decisions.

They are doing the best they can in a VERY political environment. Florida for example dropped from 90,000 tests per day to 48,000 tests per day and are apparently slowly lowering that number. The result - there are fewer cases reported, so it appears the COIVD is in retreat, while at the same time Florida has jumped into FIRST position in the nation with reported cases. Hmm, less testing and more cases... Should tell you something.

Is there info about hospitalization/death rate since the numbers have increased? That's important.

[John41]

Well, the other "placeholder" thread got 120 offtopic posts, so to avoid being buried in the noise here is the actual report they promised.

NOT GOOD NEWS.

I can't wait to see all the spin and out-of-context quoting and off-topic misinformation.

But, what can we do. This is the information from the CDC, comments on any topic welcome, even a discussion of why the government is lying to us about why Mary Queen of Scotts abdicated the throne on July 24, 1567...


Bad News From CDC - Today: Jul 30, 2021 (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w)

The report states limitations on the conclusions. It’s a super spreader event.
————————

The findings in this report are subject to at least four limitations. First, data from this report are insufficient to draw conclusions about the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, including the Delta variant, during this outbreak. As population-level vaccination coverage increases, vaccinated persons are likely to represent a larger proportion of COVID-19 cases.
————————.
Sweden with 50% vaccination has a flat Covid trend. They have tight border control unlike our southern border. To answer your question about illegal immigrants from the closed thread ICE estimate for last month is 188,000 illegals and about one million year to date with about a 13% Covid rate for those tested. 30% of illegals refuse vaccination. They come from an area where the Delta variant first appeared and are bussed/ flown to unspecified parts of the country. All it takes is one person to seed the virus.

[Papa_lecki]

Is there info about hospitalization/death rate since the numbers have increased? That's important.

In the report…..
Of the infections, 74% occurred in fully vaccinated people who had one of the three FDA-emergency approved vaccines and 80% had symptoms (so you don’t have to do the math, MOST of the infected were vaccinated. So in this case, being un vaccinated was better)
Only four of the vaccinated people were hospitalized, two of whom had underlying conditions, and there were no deaths
Results showed that vaccinated people who get COVID-19 have same viral levels as the unvaccinated

Population of Barnstable County, MA, where data comes from, is 213,000.
And apparently the vaccine isn’t a vaccine.

[John41]

Washington Post
Two new variants in Florida
Carlos Migoya, CEO of Jackson Health System, told WPLG in Miami earlier this week that the B.1.621 variant has accounted for about 10 percent of coronavirus patients, trailing behind delta, the now-dominant variant in the United States that has been ravaging the nation’s unvaccinated, and the gamma variant. B.1.621 has yet to receive a Greek-letter designation as more prominent variants have.

[Irishmen]

EmeraldRobinson asked @KJP46 (assistant press sec)how the CDC is testing for the Delta variant and she completely falls apart and says it’s because “the experts” say so.

Are you paying attention? The video is painful to watch as these people run your lives and you comply without a whimper.

[GrumpyOldMan]

In the report…..
So in this case, being un vaccinated was better)


That is an interesting spin, I assume it is your spin and not CDCs. You are giving value to not being vaccinated without knowing the specifics.

And the vaccine is a vaccine against the original variant and not DELTA. That is like taking the polio vaccine and getting chickenpox and blaming the vaccine.

In addition, the vaccine still provided benefits to the people that caught the DELTA variant.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Washington Post
Two new variants in Florida
Carlos Migoya, CEO of Jackson Health System, told WPLG in Miami earlier this week that the B.1.621 variant has accounted for about 10 percent of coronavirus patients, trailing behind delta, the now-dominant variant in the United States that has been ravaging the nation’s unvaccinated, and the gamma variant. B.1.621 has yet to receive a Greek-letter designation as more prominent variants have.

Thank you, I will be looking into that. Sounds like more bad news.

[drducat]

Thank you, I will be looking into that. Sounds like more bad news.

Gee only 125,000 plus breakthrough cases of the vaccinated...Hmmm I still have the rumblings on my keyboard of that. In other words told ya...:popcorn:

Breakthrough Covid cases are on the rise among the vaccinated (https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/breakthrough-covid-cases-least-125-000-fully-vaccinated-americans-have-n1275500)

[golfing eagles]

That is an interesting spin, I assume it is your spin and not CDCs. You are giving value to not being vaccinated without knowing the specifics.

And the vaccine is a vaccine against the original variant and not DELTA. That is like taking the polio vaccine and getting chickenpox and blaming the vaccine.

In addition, the vaccine still provided benefits to the people that caught the DELTA variant.

And it's worse than that. There is no way he can claim the unvaccinated did better without knowing how many vaccinated and unvaccinated were in the crowd. Geez, if jumping to conclusions were an Olympic sport, he would win gold.

[Irishmen]

That is an interesting spin, I assume it is your spin and not CDCs. You are giving value to not being vaccinated without knowing the specifics.

And the vaccine is a vaccine against the original variant and not DELTA. That is like taking the polio vaccine and getting chickenpox and blaming the vaccine.

In addition, the vaccine still provided benefits to the people that caught the DELTA variant.

How more specific can one be either your jabbed or your not? There is no gray area.

[billethkid]

I find the media reporting to be managed and incomplete.
No comparisons of what is currently going on VS the past 12 months....

Percentages say NOTHING!!!!! Headline....cases double this week....(ok last week there were 4) now there are 8....but the cases doubled....example only...pick a number/% you like.

What does new case mean.....how many had no symptoms?...vaccinated? Not vaccinated?...how many survived?

and on and on.

The report from the CDC at least provides a perspective that the media chooses not to pursue:

COVID Data Tracker Weekly Review | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html)

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Live your life… there is not enough left to live in fear!

[graciegirl]

I find the media reporting to be managed and incomplete.
No comparisons of what is currently going on VS the past 12 months....

Percentages say NOTHING!!!!! Headline....cases double this week....(ok last week there were 4) now there are 8....but the cases doubled....example only...pick a number/% you like.

What does new case mean.....how many had no symptoms?...vaccinated? Not vaccinated?...how many survived?

and on and on.

The report from the CDC at least provides a perspective that the media chooses not to pursue:

COVID Data Tracker Weekly Review | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html)

I have always had faith in Johns Hopkins ongoing statistics about this Pandemic.

Home - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/)

[GrumpyOldMan]

I have always had faith in Johns Hopkins ongoing statistics about this Pandemic.

Home - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center (https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/)

I completely agree

[Papa_lecki]

Cape Cod times, June 28, the week before the super spreader event. 74% of Cape Codders are vaccinated.
Cape Cod high COVID vaccine rate reduce risk of Delta variant outbreak (https://www.capecodtimes.com/story/news/2021/06/28/experts-cape-cod-high-vaccine-rate-reduce-risk-delta-variant-outbreak-covid-healthcare-agel-kamil/5347264001/)

“A doctor and a university expert on COVID-19 say that Cape Codders are in a good position to fend off the highly contagious Delta variant given the region’s high rate of vaccination against the coronavirus.”

Maybe the COVID experts don’t know what they’re talking about?


0 deaths
5 people hospitalized, 4 vaccinated, 1 not
74% of the infected were vaccinate 26% not.

[graciegirl]

Delta Variant is not just in the U.S.

Soaring rates in France now, too. France now in 4th wave of COVID due to Delta cases soaring, says PM Jean Castex | Euronews (https://www.euronews.com/2021/07/21/france-now-in-4th-wave-of-covid-due-to-delta-cases-soaring-says-pm-jean-castex)

U.K. is doing a little better than us. They have their 70% vaccinated.

[CFrance]

Uh, NO it means that they are clued. They have stated that things are changing that as new information becomes available they will update the recommendations.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can demand that experts never change their mind no matter what. That sounds not very smart to me.
I agree.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Cape Cod times, June 28, the week before the super spreader event. 74% of Cape Codders are vaccinated.
Cape Cod high COVID vaccine rate reduce risk of Delta variant outbreak (https://www.capecodtimes.com/story/news/2021/06/28/experts-cape-cod-high-vaccine-rate-reduce-risk-delta-variant-outbreak-covid-healthcare-agel-kamil/5347264001/)

“A doctor and a university expert on COVID-19 say that Cape Codders are in a good position to fend off the highly contagious Delta variant given the region’s high rate of vaccination against the coronavirus.”

Maybe the COVID experts don’t know what they’re talking about?


0 deaths
5 people hospitalized, 4 vaccinated, 1 not
74% of the infected were vaccinate 26% not.

Hmm, science is not about BEING right all the time - leave that requirement at church.

Science is about finding the truth, and being willing to say, oh darn, we were wrong and here is better information.

[Escape Artist]

Cape Cod times, June 28, the week before the super spreader event. 74% of Cape Codders are vaccinated.
Cape Cod high COVID vaccine rate reduce risk of Delta variant outbreak (https://www.capecodtimes.com/story/news/2021/06/28/experts-cape-cod-high-vaccine-rate-reduce-risk-delta-variant-outbreak-covid-healthcare-agel-kamil/5347264001/)

“A doctor and a university expert on COVID-19 say that Cape Codders are in a good position to fend off the highly contagious Delta variant given the region’s high rate of vaccination against the coronavirus.”

Maybe the COVID experts don’t know what they’re talking about?


0 deaths
5 people hospitalized, 4 vaccinated, 1 not
74% of the infected were vaccinate 26% not.

The Delta variant, formerly known as the UK variant, is thought to be more contagious but not more virulent than the original COVID-19. I think the news from Cape Cod is good rather than bad in terms of the vaccinated being protected somewhat from the full impact of the variant and also the hospitalization/death numbers are encouraging. That's what matters right? Not that people are getting a virus, but they aren't suffering from its most severe effects.

[GrumpyOldMan]

The Delta variant, formerly known as the UK variant, is thought to be more contagious but not more virulent than the original COVID-19. I think the news from Cape Cod is good rather than bad in terms of the vaccinated being protected somewhat from the full impact of the variant and also the hospitalization/death numbers are encouraging. That's what matters right? Not that people are getting a virus, but they aren't suffering from its most severe effects.

I agree, it was a mixed bag, but IF vaccines are mitigating the virus results, that is a very good thing.

[Swoop]

Hmm, science is not about BEING right all the time - leave that requirement at church.

Science is about finding the truth, and being willing to say, oh darn, we were wrong and here is better information.
So if you hear:
Oh darn, we were wrong about the safety of the vaccines…
But now that we see the results of the largest vaccine trial in history we have better information…
Oops - our mistake - sorry…
But that’s science…

[stanley]

So if you hear:
Oh darn, we were wrong about the safety of the vaccines…
But now that we see the results of the largest vaccine trial in history we have better information…
Oops - our mistake - sorry…
But that’s science…

People can't handle the truth.

[GrumpyOldMan]

So if you hear:
Oh darn, we were wrong about the safety of the vaccines…
But now that we see the results of the largest vaccine trial in history we have better information…
Oops - our mistake - sorry…
But that’s science…

No, and that is not what they said. They were right about the safety of the vaccine, and are still right. And they were right about how well the vaccine worked against the virus it was designed to work against. When the Delta variant came about they said the vaccine might work against it. As soon as evidence came out that it was possible to have breakthroughs they almost immediately told the public that the latest data shows breakthroughs.

[Swoop]

No, and that is not what they said. They were right about the safety of the vaccine, and are still right. And they were right about how well the vaccine worked against the virus it was designed to work against. When the Delta variant came about they said the vaccine might work against it. As soon as evidence came out that it was possible to have breakthroughs they almost immediately told the public that the latest data shows breakthroughs.
The CDC hid the information on the breakthroughs for months. They stopped updating their website as the numbers were climbing.
And the long term results aren’t even available yet…

[GrumpyOldMan]

The CDC hid the information on the breakthroughs for months. They stopped updating their website as the numbers were climbing.
And the long term results aren’t even available yet…

HID is a very prejudicial term - implying some nefarious motivation. Do you have any proof they intentionally HID information?

Or did they wait until they had enough information to be able to justify saying something?

[Bill14564]

So if you hear:
Oh darn, we were wrong about the safety of the vaccines…
But now that we see the results of the largest vaccine trial in history we have better information…
Oops - our mistake - sorry…
But that’s science…

If I hear that I will be just as surprised as if I open the door and Ed McMahon is standing there. One is a little more likely than the other but either would be a great surprise.

[Bill14564]

The CDC hid the information on the breakthroughs for months. They stopped updating their website as the numbers were climbing.
And the long term results aren’t even available yet…

Didn't hide it at all. In plain print they explained that they could not reliably count infections that may or may not be reported and may or may not result in symptoms so they moved on to providing more reliable numbers.

[Bella6368]

comment....the cdc can not dictate what we must do, but only what they recommend. The fact that their suggestions change weekly and sometimes daily only means they're clueless...why you might ask...because enough facts about the vaccine and those who have taken it(and those that haven't)aren't available. It can take years to amass and understand what all the data means.

You are free to do what you please without gov't interference. Masks do not guarantee you won't get the virus...nothing does. Deal with it!

Nor should any employer private or federal require employees to take this EAU drug.
IT IS STILL AN EXPERIMENTAL DRUG! AND TO TOP THAT OFF IT WONT EVEN PREVENT YOU FROM GETTING COVID. AT BEST IT MIGHT LIGHTEN YOUR SYMPTONS IF YOU GET IT, BUT YOU ALSO CHANCE LONG TERM UNKNOWN SIDE EFFECTS. IS IT WORTH IT, I ASK?

[Get real]

Nor should any employer private or federal require employees to take this EAU drug.
IT IS STILL AN EXPERIMENTAL DRUG! AND TO TOP THAT OFF IT WONT EVEN PREVENT YOU FROM GETTING COVID. AT BEST IT MIGHT LIGHTEN YOUR SYMPTONS IF YOU GET IT, BUT YOU ALSO CHANCE LONG TERM UNKNOWN SIDE EFFECTS. IS IT WORTH IT, I ASK?

You are not allowed to question this. The "experts" have spoken. They are all knowing....We must believe they are the "experts" because they told us so. :bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[Girlcopper]

In the report…..
Of the infections, 74% occurred in fully vaccinated people who had one of the three FDA-emergency approved vaccines and 80% had symptoms (so you don’t have to do the math, MOST of the infected were vaccinated. So in this case, being un vaccinated was better)
Only four of the vaccinated people were hospitalized, two of whom had underlying conditions, and there were no deaths
Results showed that vaccinated people who get COVID-19 have same viral levels as the unvaccinated

Population of Barnstable County, MA, where data comes from, is 213,000.
And apparently the vaccine isn’t a vaccine.
96% of the hospitalized are unvaccinated in So Fl. True, its south of us but still shows who is getting it

[thevillages2013]

Well, the other "placeholder" thread got 120 offtopic posts, so to avoid being buried in the noise here is the actual report they promised.

NOT GOOD NEWS.

I can't wait to see all the spin and out-of-context quoting and off-topic misinformation.

But, what can we do. This is the information from the CDC, comments on any topic welcome, even a discussion of why the government is lying to us about why Mary Queen of Scotts abdicated the throne on July 24, 1567...


Bad News From CDC - Today: Jul 30, 2021 (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w)
Do you vaccinated people ever wonder if your vaccine dosage was handled properly before it went in your arm? Pfizer for example super frozen at -60c to -80c then still prior to use “warmed up “to -15c and then thawed in a refrigerator, mixed with saline and ready for the jab. 6 hour shelf life at room temperature and can’t be refrozen. Yeah and you went to some drive up site where they had them in an Igloo cooler. That is a lot of trusting the system people .

[Malsua]

If I hear that I will be just as surprised as if I open the door and Ed McMahon is standing there. One is a little more likely than the other but either would be a great surprise.

If that happens, run. The apocalypse is upon us and he's about to steal all your booze. Zombies are bad enough, can you imagine DRUNK zombies? *Shudder*.

[La lamy]

It's the era of superbugs as they predicted I reckon. Vaccines, like the flu shot and Covid 19, can only fully work for 'last year's' virus. I for one will continue to social distance as much as possible because variants will find a way to infect and kill immunocompromised people. But even with distancing precaution (except with my Boo) I will still enjoy my life to the fullest.

[Swoop]

Didn't hide it at all. In plain print they explained that they could not reliably count infections that may or may not be reported and may or may not result in symptoms so they moved on to providing more reliable numbers.
If you tested positive and went back for multiple additional tests, the CDC had no problem reporting every positive test as a new case. But they couldn’t “reliably” report breakthrough cases…
Is that what you’re saying…

[Dlbonivich]

Testing has dropped because many who get it who are vaccinated do not have symptoms.

[Papa_lecki]

Testing has dropped because many who get it who are vaccinated do not have symptoms.

And the CDC doesn’t want vaccinated people tested.
“People who have been fully vaccinated against COVID-19 don’t need to be tested regularly or quarantine, even after being exposed to someone who was sick,”

CDC: Fully Vaccinated Can Skip Routine COVID Testing (https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210604/cdc-says-fully-vaccinated-can-skip-routine-covid-testing)

[Pamelah]

Nowhere in the CDC article does it state all 469 were from Ma. In all likelihood they came from all over NE. This is Cape Cod here tourists flock for the summer LAmong the 469 cases in Massachusetts residents, 346 (74%) occurred in persons who were fully vaccinated

Vaccine - substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

So 469 people in a state with a population of 6,900,000?

[Tom2172]

I believe what ever the government says because they would not lie unless it would be in there best interests to lie! Money & power and unquenchable greed are prime motivators!
Illegals can stream in through opened borders then are transported into the heartland but Americans must quarantine and wear masks! Sure that makes sense?
Absolute power created absolute corruption

[Pamelah]

You are obviously no scientist. I am not either but I understand answers to the problems we have with Covid and variants are done by trial and error. If scientists say, “This vaccination will not hurt you and will help prevent death from Covid”, then I’ll be in line to get a shot. You don’t agree? Fine. We won’t hear you complain if you end up on a ventilator or worse. comment....the cdc can not dictate what we must do, but only what they recommend. The fact that their suggestions change weekly and sometimes daily only means they're clueless...why you might ask...because enough facts about the vaccine and those who have taken it(and those that haven't)aren't available. It can take years to amass and understand what all the data means.

You are free to do what you please without gov't interference. Masks do not guarantee you won't get the virus...nothing does. Deal with it!

[Pamelah]

Absolute power can create absolute corruption. When has that ever occurred in the U.S.? Get real.
I believe what ever the government says because they would not lie unless it would be in there best interests to lie! Money & power and unquenchable greed are prime motivators!
Illegals can stream in through opened borders then are transported into the heartland but Americans must quarantine and wear masks! Sure that makes sense?
Absolute power created absolute corruption

[Pamelah]

And those 469 were NOT all from Ma!!! Which means any large influx of people in any state does not bode well. But that is a look at only one small area in the state. Not the entire state.

[PugMom]

I believe what ever the government says because they would not lie unless it would be in there best interests to lie! Money & power and unquenchable greed are prime motivators!
Illegals can stream in through opened borders then are transported into the heartland but Americans must quarantine and wear masks! Sure that makes sense?
Absolute power created absolute corruption

:bigbow:

[Robnlaura]

Among the 469 cases in Massachusetts residents, 346 (74%) occurred in persons who were fully vaccinated

Vaccine - substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

So 469 people in a state with a population of 6,900,000?

Yet Four of the five people who were hospitalized in this outbreak were vaccinated. No one died.

[merrymini]

The virus has been politicized so I do not KNOW what to accept as truth and neither does anyone else.
They have become tyrants, trying to force people to take the shot.
Lying to the public on a continuous basis does not encourage TRUST.
Let everyone make their own choice.
Stop insulting people because they disagree with you.
You got the shot, what are you worried about?

[Robnlaura]

You are not allowed to question this. The "experts" have spoken. They are all knowing....We must believe they are the "experts" because they told us so. :bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

Personally I don’t care if you do not get the vaccine. Your problem don’t ask us to keep you safe though. Yes we might transmit it but if you have the vaccine what does it matter ??

[christine J Toft]

Well, the other "placeholder" thread got 120 offtopic posts, so to avoid being buried in the noise here is the actual report they promised.

NOT GOOD NEWS.

I can't wait to see all the spin and out-of-context quoting and off-topic misinformation.

But, what can we do. This is the information from the CDC, comments on any topic welcome, even a discussion of why the government is lying to us about why Mary Queen of Scotts abdicated the throne on July 24, 1567...


Bad News From CDC - Today: Jul 30, 2021 (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w)
This area of the country is one of the highest vaccinated populations. Sadly, this variant can "break through" quite easily. It makes sense that there are so many fully vaccinated getting the strain, given the high percentage of vaccinated residents. What frightens me so (and I wear a mask indoors always even as vaccinated) is that the spread of this will cause mutations that the vaccine will not work on. Please, wear a mask. Stop this awful thing. It's science and the scientists are learning as they go. The best defense is to stop the spread.. period.

[Marine1974]

The health department’s regularly check the sewage waste plants to access the data on diseases found
in human waste and if there is an
epidemic in the community. Data
does provide a warning of an outbreak of diseases.

[graciegirl]

I believe what ever the government says because they would not lie unless it would be in there best interests to lie! Money & power and unquenchable greed are prime motivators!
Illegals can stream in through opened borders then are transported into the heartland but Americans must quarantine and wear masks! Sure that makes sense?
Absolute power created absolute corruption

Be careful to not mix issues and blame.

Focus on the fact that this Delta Variant is making people sick who are fully vaccinated in France and Germany and U.K. and Denmark and Belgium and The Netherlands, and Russia and Algeria and Egypt and Peru and New Zealand and Japan and all over everywhere. The little virus ******* is just going at it.

[kendi]

Among the 469 cases in Massachusetts residents, 346 (74%) occurred in persons who were fully vaccinated

Vaccine - substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

So 469 people in a state with a population of 6,900,000?

Add to this that there were 0 deaths and only 5 hospitalized.

[kendi]

This area of the country is one of the highest vaccinated populations. Sadly, this variant can "break through" quite easily. It makes sense that there are so many fully vaccinated getting the strain, given the high percentage of vaccinated residents. What frightens me so (and I wear a mask indoors always even as vaccinated) is that the spread of this will cause mutations that the vaccine will not work on. Please, wear a mask. Stop this awful thing. It's science and the scientists are learning as they go. The best defense is to stop the spread.. period.

It gets less awful as it mutates. As most viruses do.

[christine J Toft]

And those 469 were NOT all from Ma!!! Which means any large influx of people in any state does not bode well.
Exactly.. bring on the un-vaccinated to one of the highest vaccinated populations in the country and you have it. Breakthroughs. Who's going to get it... that highly vaccinated population. The numbers have to be put into context.

[Marine1974]

You might bring a thermometer and check the temperatures of the vaccines so you can be more accurate in your misinformation you are believing in and spreading
fear for no apparent reason other than getting attention. Silly .

[christine J Toft]

It gets less awful as it mutates. As most viruses do.
Really... why is the Delta variant worse than the original???

[kendi]

Well, the other "placeholder" thread got 120 offtopic posts, so to avoid being buried in the noise here is the actual report they promised.

NOT GOOD NEWS.

I can't wait to see all the spin and out-of-context quoting and off-topic misinformation.

But, what can we do. This is the information from the CDC, comments on any topic welcome, even a discussion of why the government is lying to us about why Mary Queen of Scotts abdicated the throne on July 24, 1567...


Bad News From CDC - Today: Jul 30, 2021 (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w)

You may find this article interesting. It would explain why there are breakthrough cases in those who have been vaccinated. by Dr. Joseph Mercola. Originally posted on mercola.com

Will COVID-19 Vaccines Drive Mutated Variants? (https://www.theepochtimes.com/will-covid-19-vaccines-drive-mutated-variants_3910436.html)

[Irishmen]

Exactly.. bring on the un-vaccinated to one of the highest vaccinated populations in the country and you have it. Breakthroughs. Who's going to get it... that highly vaccinated population. The numbers have to be put into context.

Please explain the proper context?

[Irishmen]

Really... why is the Delta variant worse than the original???

When one realizes the spike protein produced by the mRNA is the toxin it will be too late. Condolences in advance...

[heenables]

The perceptions people have is dumbfounding. You find out that breakthrough cases hit vaccinated higher and unvaccinated got it as well. Both had the same levels and none died. You take those facts and start talking about "it wasn't MA residents" or "It's doing it's job"... "No deaths proves it works". I don't think I've ever seen this level of stupid in my life. The vaccine didn't help those people- that's a fact. The unvaccinated didn't die and now don't need a vaccine because they have natural immunities for life- that's a fact. The virus is less deadly than your fear- that's a fact. You took the vaccination so you probably have some form of blood clotting as I'm writing this- that's a fact. Keep propagating to yourself that everyone needs the vaccine and you are the bigger better person because you blindly followed fear. Feel good and bash away. Time will tell which side of history you are on and your grandkids that you spew this nonsense to will read the book about it. Unless reading true history is banned by then because of you blind leading the blind. Other than that everything seems just fine in this United States... :pray:

[CFrance]

You may find this article interesting. It would explain why there are breakthrough cases in those who have been vaccinated. by Dr. Joseph Mercola. Originally posted on mercola.com

Will COVID-19 Vaccines Drive Mutated Variants? (https://www.theepochtimes.com/will-covid-19-vaccines-drive-mutated-variants_3910436.html)
I trust nothing this guy says. He sells dietary supplements and profits from spreading misinformation.

From NYT:
"The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online


Researchers and regulators say Joseph Mercola, an osteopathic physician, creates and profits from misleading claims about Covid-19 vaccines." The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/24/technology/joseph-mercola-coronavirus-misinformation-online.html)


Here is a further explanation: ttps://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-criminal-investigations/warning-letters/mercolacom-llc-607133-02182021

[Gizemo33]

Hey Grumpy, holymolly, Oh I did not know that. Geez I thought she left in june not July 1567.

Thanks for the update.

Ok folks, Let the jousting begin. Just keep in mind the CDC report is not misinformation, the CDC report is not deflection, the CDC report is trying to save lives.

Remember, “I would rather be doubly protected today then having a ventilator in my throat tomorrow.”

QUOTE=GrumpyOldMan;1980802]Well, the other "placeholder" thread got 120 offtopic posts, so to avoid being buried in the noise here is the actual report they promised.

NOT GOOD NEWS.

I can't wait to see all the spin and out-of-context quoting and off-topic misinformation.

But, what can we do. This is the information from the CDC, comments on any topic welcome, even a discussion of why the government is lying to us about why Mary Queen of Scotts abdicated the throne on July 24, 1567...


Bad News From CDC - Today: Jul 30, 2021 (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w)[/QUOTE]

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

So, I'm avoiding citing network media sources, since the science deniers are also the proponents of the "fake news conspiracies." Here's a little ditty from your favorite network, Fox News:

Louisiana hospitals prepare for surge of COVID-19 patients | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/health/louisiana-hospitals-covid19-patients-increase)

annnd just in case Fox isn't right-wing conspiracy enough for you, here's a lovely number from the pinnacle of right-side journalism, Breitbart:

The Latest: Louisiana reports high rates of COVID-19 cases - Breitbart (https://www.breitbart.com/news/the-latest-fiji-urges-more-jabs-as-covid-deaths-rise/)

Regardless of which source you believe, and who should've done what a year ago, the facts are the facts.

Covid is on the rise. Hospitalizations are on the rise. Deaths are on the rise. Children needing ventilators are on the rise, and that is actually NEW. Last year children on ventilators happened, but not to the extent they're happening now.

What is also a fact: fewer than 50% of eligible people (12 years old and up with no medical need to refrain) living in Florida are vaccinated.

Also a fact: most people in Florida refuse to wear a mask when indoors in public places.
Also a fact: most people in Florida refuse to socially distance.
Also a fact: the current Covid virus, which is the delta variation, spreads MUCH faster than the previous versions. The delta version didn't previously exist, but it is a mutation from the original. The gamma version already exists and they've seen cases of yet another version in Florida that haven't gotten a greek letter name assigned to it.
Also a fact: because this is a NOVEL coronavirus (meaning new - one they haven't encountered ever before), they have no way to predict HOW it will mutate. The only thing they can predict is that it WILL mutate, as long as it has hosts to mutate on.


If you want to err on the side of caution, you will:
1. get FULLY vaccinated
2. keep a mask in your pocket or purse at all times, so that if you choose to go into a crowded place, you can wear the mask.

That is how you err on the side of caution.

[Irishmen]

The perceptions people have is dumbfounding. You find out that breakthrough cases hit vaccinated higher and unvaccinated got it as well. Both had the same levels and none died. You take those facts and start talking about "it wasn't MA residents" or "It's doing it's job"... "No deaths proves it works". I don't think I've ever seen this level of stupid in my life. The vaccine didn't help those people- that's a fact. The unvaccinated didn't die and now don't need a vaccine because they have natural immunities for life- that's a fact. The virus is less deadly than your fear- that's a fact. You took the vaccination so you probably have some form of blood clotting as I'm writing this- that's a fact. Keep propagating to yourself that everyone needs the vaccine and you are the bigger better person because you blindly followed fear. Feel good and bash away. Time will tell which side of history you are on and your grandkids that you spew this nonsense to will read the book about it. Unless reading true history is banned by then because of you blind leading the blind. Other than that everything seems just fine in this United States... :pray:

Well said. No one likes to admit they fell for the lie.

[Irishmen]

So, I'm avoiding citing network media sources, since the science deniers are also the proponents of the "fake news conspiracies." Here's a little ditty from your favorite network, Fox News:

Louisiana hospitals prepare for surge of COVID-19 patients | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/health/louisiana-hospitals-covid19-patients-increase)

annnd just in case Fox isn't right-wing conspiracy enough for you, here's a lovely number from the pinnacle of right-side journalism, Breitbart:

The Latest: Louisiana reports high rates of COVID-19 cases - Breitbart (https://www.breitbart.com/news/the-latest-fiji-urges-more-jabs-as-covid-deaths-rise/)

Regardless of which source you believe, and who should've done what a year ago, the facts are the facts.

Covid is on the rise. Hospitalizations are on the rise. Deaths are on the rise. Children needing ventilators are on the rise, and that is actually NEW. Last year children on ventilators happened, but not to the extent they're happening now.

What is also a fact: fewer than 50% of eligible people (12 years old and up with no medical need to refrain) living in Florida are vaccinated.

Also a fact: most people in Florida refuse to wear a mask when indoors in public places.
Also a fact: most people in Florida refuse to socially distance.
Also a fact: the current Covid virus, which is the delta variation, spreads MUCH faster than the previous versions. The delta version didn't previously exist, but it is a mutation from the original. The gamma version already exists and they've seen cases of yet another version in Florida that haven't gotten a greek letter name assigned to it.
Also a fact: because this is a NOVEL coronavirus (meaning new - one they haven't encountered ever before), they have no way to predict HOW it will mutate. The only thing they can predict is that it WILL mutate, as long as it has hosts to mutate on.


If you want to err on the side of caution, you will:
1. get FULLY vaccinated
2. keep a mask in your pocket or purse at all times, so that if you choose to go into a crowded place, you can wear the mask.

That is how you err on the side of caution.

lol point#1 Load up on that spike protein...its good for you.

[Pat2015]

Testing has dropped because many who get it who are vaccinated do not have symptoms.
Agree, and the breakthrough infections amongst vaccinated people will never be known as most don’t get tested and if they feel a little off they just chalk it up to an off day or so.

[ithos]

Science or Political Science?

Before 3/19/20 hydroxychloroquine, a drug used by hundreds of millions for RA and antimalarial prevention, was considered safer than aspirin and had very promising results in clinical trials for the treatment of Covid. (based on google search results before this date)

Chloroquine seems to be effective in limiting the replication of SARS-CoV-2 (virus causing COVID-19) in vitro. Conclusions There is rationale, pre-clinical evidence of effectiveness and evidence of safety from long-time clinical use for other indications to justify clinical research on chloroquine in patients with COVID-19.

A systematic review on the efficacy and safety of chloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7270792/)

Physicians work out treatment guidelines for coronavirus < Hospital < 기사본문 - KBR (https://www.koreabiomed.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=7428)

French researcher posts successful Covid-19 drug trial (https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-researcher-in-Marseille-posts-successful-Covid-19-coronavirus-drug-trial-results)

South Korea experts recommend anti-HIV, anti-malaria drugs for COVID-19 - UPI.com (https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2020/03/12/South-Korea-experts-recommend-anti-HIV-anti-malaria-drugs-for-COVID-19/6961584012321/)

Coronavirus Covid-19: Chloroquine data; Japan to trial HIV drug (https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/coronavirus-covid-19-choroquine-data/)

There was very little skepticism by scientist and doctors.

Then virtually overnight it became a dangerous drug and had to be banned. I am sure it had nothing to do with politics.

[Bill14564]

If you tested positive and went back for multiple additional tests, the CDC had no problem reporting every positive test as a new case. But they couldn’t “reliably” report breakthrough cases…
Is that what you’re saying…

Not exactly; your claim about counting every new test as a new case is false also.

One of the criticisms of reporting cases is it could not count asymptomatic cases or any other case where the individual did not go in to get tested. That's fairly obvious, you cannot count what you do not see. Likewise with counting positive test results as breakthrough cases, it can only lead to an undercount. If I don't get tested because I've been vaccinated and my symptoms are mild or nonexistent then I wouldn't be counted and the data would not be complete. The count of hospitalizations and deaths, counting actual bodies, is much more accurate.

Look, I realize you are never going to agree no matter what the facts are; I'm not trying to convince you. I'm trying to balance the nonsense and misinformation with what I believe are documented and provable facts.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Science or Political Science?

Before 3/19/20 hydroxychloroquine, a drug used by hundreds of millions for RA and antimalarial prevention, was considered safer than aspirin and had very promising results in clinical trials for the treatment of Covid. (based on google search results before this date)

Chloroquine seems to be effective in limiting the replication of SARS-CoV-2 (virus causing COVID-19) in vitro. Conclusions There is rationale, pre-clinical evidence of effectiveness and evidence of safety from long-time clinical use for other indications to justify clinical research on chloroquine in patients with COVID-19.

A systematic review on the efficacy and safety of chloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7270792/)

Physicians work out treatment guidelines for coronavirus < Hospital < 기사본문 - KBR (https://www.koreabiomed.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=7428)

French researcher posts successful Covid-19 drug trial (https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-researcher-in-Marseille-posts-successful-Covid-19-coronavirus-drug-trial-results)

South Korea experts recommend anti-HIV, anti-malaria drugs for COVID-19 - UPI.com (https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2020/03/12/South-Korea-experts-recommend-anti-HIV-anti-malaria-drugs-for-COVID-19/6961584012321/)

Coronavirus Covid-19: Chloroquine data; Japan to trial HIV drug (https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/coronavirus-covid-19-choroquine-data/)

There was very little skepticism by scientist and doctors.

Then virtually overnight it became a dangerous drug and had to be banned. I am sure it had nothing to do with politics.

It had nothing to do with politics and everything to do with using a drug for specific purposes, with specific results.

Sort of like - yes, aspirin can relieve pain and reduce fever. But you don't inject it into your heart if you have chest pains. That'd be bad. Or injecting welbutrin into a bruise on your arm to break up the clot. That'd be really bad.

Hydroxychloroquine has properties that allow it to be effective for certain things. That doesn't mean it's effective OR safe for everything. That's why they determined it was a good idea to RESEARCH it, as you quoted in your own post. They discovered during the start of that research, that it came with some significant risks and were unable to just flat out recommend and release it to the general public.

That is how science works.

[kendi]

[QUOTE=CFrance;1981136]I trust nothing this guy says. He sells dietary supplements and profits from spreading misinformation.

From NYT:
"The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online


Researchers and regulators say Joseph Mercola, an osteopathic physician, creates and profits from misleading claims about Covid-19 vaccines." The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/24/technology/joseph-mercola-coronavirus-misinformation-online.html)


Here is a further explanation: ttps://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-criminal-investigations/warning-letters/mercolacom-llc-607133-02182021

Just put it out there for an interesting read. Researchers, government officials and the like regularly try to discredit others who do not agree. It's good to be exposed to all viewpoints in order to make the best informed decision.

[ithos]

It had nothing to do with politics and everything to do with using a drug for specific purposes, with specific results.

Sort of like - yes, aspirin can relieve pain and reduce fever. But you don't inject it into your heart if you have chest pains. That'd be bad. Or injecting welbutrin into a bruise on your arm to break up the clot. That'd be really bad.

Hydroxychloroquine has properties that allow it to be effective for certain things. That doesn't mean it's effective OR safe for everything. That's why they determined it was a good idea to RESEARCH it, as you quoted in your own post. They discovered during the start of that research, that it came with some significant risks and were unable to just flat out recommend and release it to the general public.

That is how science works.

So in one day, they determined that it went from a promising drug recommended by all the major health organizations in South Korea to a dangerous remedy? You call that science?

[GrumpyOldMan]

[QUOTE=CFrance;1981136]I trust nothing this guy says. He sells dietary supplements and profits from spreading misinformation.

From NYT:
"The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online


Researchers and regulators say Joseph Mercola, an osteopathic physician, creates and profits from misleading claims about Covid-19 vaccines." The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/24/technology/joseph-mercola-coronavirus-misinformation-online.html)


Here is a further explanation: ttps://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-criminal-investigations/warning-letters/mercolacom-llc-607133-02182021

Just put it out there for an interesting read. Researchers, government officials and the like regularly try to discredit others who do not agree. It's good to be exposed to all viewpoints in order to make the best informed decision.

Really. you are suggesting someone might try to profit off of other people's fears and suffering.

Uh, YUP. I completely agree.

[GrumpyOldMan]

It gets less awful as it mutates. As most viruses do.

As with so many misleading comments, this is sort of true.

MOST mutations do not survive. PERIOD. The next level of mutations are mostly not significant changes, so appear to be the same virus.

The last group of mutations is worse. While they may be the least frequent, they are more aggressive (DELTA is more contagious). If you win the lottery a mutation is more contagious and more dealy, then bad stuff happens worldwide.

The odds of a really bad mutation/variant occurring are slim, but not zero - hence we have DELTA in the first year of this pandemic. The reason we want everyone possible to get a vaccination and to wear masks is to reduce the population of virus spreaders - more people with the virus, more people spreading means more bad mutations are able to find a host to grow and spread from.

If a mutation occurs in the forest and no one is there, it dies. If a mutation occurs at a political rally and 100,000 people are there it has a good chance of finding a moist warm new friendly host to raise its family of millions of clones to share with family, friends, and neighbors - even strangers at the grocery store.

[Papa_lecki]

Sort of like - yes, aspirin can relieve pain and reduce fever. But you don't inject it into your heart if you have chest pains. That'd be bad. Or injecting welbutrin into a bruise on your arm to break up the clot. That'd be really bad.

Its called ‘off label use’. It happens all the time.
“Beta-blockers are another example of beneficial off-label prescribing. Such medications are FDA-approved for the treatment of high blood pressure, but are widely recognized by cardiologists as a standard of care for patients with heart failure.“

[FromNY]

Want to know which vaccine the sick vaccinated had and when? Did they have antibodies? Not everyone developed antibodies. Did they get vaccinated yesterday or months ago?

[GrumpyOldMan]

So in one day, they determined that it went from a promising drug recommended by all the major health organizations in South Korea to a dangerous remedy? Do you call that science?

Well, not quite, let's see.

A bunch of people from around the world who had dedicated their lives to helping people got together secretly and decided to spread misinformation to allow millions of people to die. They did this because they didn't like the politics in the US (that has been given as a reason, I am not making it up)

Or

A bunch of people from around the world who had dedicated their lives to helping people independently came to the same conclusion that while there may be some beneficial results from the use of a drug, the negative side effects far out weighted the positive.

To go any further into "reasons" would get me banned or at the least this thread locked.

[Irishmen]

As with so many misleading comments, this is sort of true.

MOST mutations do not survive. PERIOD. The next level of mutations are mostly not significant changes, so appear to be the same virus.

The last group of mutations is worse. While they may be the least frequent, they are more aggressive (DELTA is more contagious). If you win the lottery a mutation is more contagious and more dealy, then bad stuff happens worldwide.

The odds of a really bad mutation/variant occurring are slim, but not zero - hence we have DELTA in the first year of this pandemic. The reason we want everyone possible to get a vaccination and to wear masks is to reduce the population of virus spreaders - more people with the virus, more people spreading means more viable mutations.

If a mutation occurs in the forest and no one is there, it dies. If a mutation occurs are a political rally and 100,000 people are there it has a good chance of finding a moist warm new friendly host to raise its family of millions of clones to share with family, friends, and neighbors - even strangers are the grocery store.

I will say the infection rate has gone up from 2 to 8 which has gotten my attention. Voluntarily staying away from public places, washing hands a bunch, staying hydrated, and starting a regime to improve natural immunity is what's required. I believe this round has peaked and starting the downhill reduction as seen in other areas who've went through same.

[danglanzsr]

No one has mentioned that the town where the reported gatherings occurred was Provincetown. P'town is famous for several aspects of its inhabitants, including a fairly high incidence of HIV and associated suppressed immunity. I wonder why the CDC never mentioned the town that was studied.

[Swoop]

Not exactly; your claim about counting every new test as a new case is false also.

One of the criticisms of reporting cases is it could not count asymptomatic cases or any other case where the individual did not go in to get tested. That's fairly obvious, you cannot count what you do not see. Likewise with counting positive test results as breakthrough cases, it can only lead to an undercount. If I don't get tested because I've been vaccinated and my symptoms are mild or nonexistent then I wouldn't be counted and the data would not be complete. The count of hospitalizations and deaths, counting actual bodies, is much more accurate.

Look, I realize you are never going to agree no matter what the facts are; I'm not trying to convince you. I'm trying to balance the nonsense and misinformation with what I believe are documented and provable facts.

The fact is the CDC stopped reporting breakthrough cases. Even if the number would have been misleadingly low, because so many breakthrough cases were asymptotic. Instead they left a 3 month old number on their website and multiple posters on TOTV continue to quote it as current. The very definition of misinformation…

[fgaba1949]

[
As you all know its been approved for emergency use ONLY...and if you say they CDC is still testing it...are they really still testing it ???? if so when do they expect to get it fully approved ?

I am just wondering why so many health care professionals are NOT taking it


Bad News From CDC - Today: Jul 30, 2021 (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm?s_cid=mm7031e2_w)[/QUOTE]

[Moderator]

Another one bites the dust. It would be nice if we could have just one of these threads that didn't result in politics and personal attacks.

Thread has been cleaned up and closed.

Moderator