What is the definition of a Covid 19 Case?

[DALEPQ]

Everything we now hear is based on Covid 19 "Case Counts".
Yet, I can't seem to find exactly what the Factual definition of a Covid case is.
I believe it means a positive test result, but then what does that mean?
Is it that you are currently testing positive, or that you were previously positive?
(For the record we got Vax'd. as soon a we possibly could get it, in later Jan.
To this point no known side effects, nor contracting Covid.) Thus, not anti Vax.
Just can't seem to get "The Rest of The Story". Yet, it is an hourly headline!
p.s. DHS has disclosed that over 1Mil. have come across the So. border so far this
year, with a totally unknown number of "Got Aways". They won't disclose how
many of those Illegals are positive Covid cases, nor were they are being sent
all over the country. So what factor are they contributing to the Covid spread?
Not being cynical, but not getting told factual information either.

[Bogie Shooter]

This should be interesting………..

[GoPacers]

There are confirmed and probable cases. Confirmed are as described - confirmed by a positive COVID test. Could be a PCR test or other and you can debate the merits of the different test all you want but they are confirmed cases. Probable cases are just that, someone made a determination that a case was most likely to be COVID. Just as with the confirmed cases, you can debate the merits of the observation as much as one wants.

If someone said the actual cases were off by 10% I personally wouldn't argue since nobody really knows. That number would still be directionally correct. If someone said the actual cases were off by 50% I'd not discuss the topic with that person any longer as they were coming at this with a different objective than many. With regards to someone testing positive more than once - again, probably not significant in the macro view.

Not sure what relevance the immigration numbers have on this. The data clearly shows (of late) that the overwhelming majority of cases are from folks who have not been vaccinated. If you could prove that the immigrants that were crossing the border were subsequently traveling to areas where the majority of the residents were not vaccinated then you could probably make a credible argument the surge was a result of immigration crossings or at least contributed to by those crossings. Makes for great news headlines but the correlation/causation argument has never been made because it would be incredibly hard to make.

The border crisis is not a COVID crisis but the media hasn't relied on demonstrable facts for years and clearly they have no intention of starting now.

[Two Bills]

The 'Border Crisis' is convenient at the moment.
Someone/something will be more convenient tomorrow.
In the UK when we are facing a major crisis, we always blame the French.
It works for us!

[Dana1963]

Everything we now hear is based on Covid 19 "Case Counts".
Yet, I can't seem to find exactly what the Factual definition of a Covid case is.
I believe it means a positive test result, but then what does that mean?
Is it that you are currently testing positive, or that you were previously positive?
(For the record we got Vax'd. as soon a we possibly could get it, in later Jan.
To this point no known side effects, nor contracting Covid.) Thus, not anti Vax.
Just can't seem to get "The Rest of The Story". Yet, it is an hourly headline!
p.s. DHS has disclosed that over 1Mil. have come across the So. border so far this
year, with a totally unknown number of "Got Aways". They won't disclose how
many of those Illegals are positive Covid cases, nor were they are being sent
all over the country. So what factor are they contributing to the Covid spread?
Not being cynical, but not getting told factual information either.
If your sick enough to think you need a Covid Test then test positive you are your infected it’s quite simple.
I seriously doubt every single person crossing the border is infected some but not all.
I’m more concerned with the anti vaccine movement even Franklin Graham is loosing his flock. Many Evangelical scammers are telling there flock not to take the vaccine and not to wear masks.

[golfing eagles]

If your sick enough to think you need a Covid Test then test positive you are your infected it’s quite simple.
I seriously doubt every single person crossing the border is infected some but not all.
I’m more concerned with the anti vaccine movement even Franklin Graham is loosing his flock. Many Evangelical scammers are telling there flock not to take the vaccine and not to wear masks.

I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure they are just counting positive tests as "cases", don't need to be "sick". If we did that with seasonal flu, we'd probably have over 100 million "cases" every year. Of course, that won't happen since we don't test asymptomatic people for flu. Nor do we test them for any other disease except HIV, and in rare cases Tb. It's just COVID that has that honor, so no wonder we have so many "cases". And I can't think of any other disease that we test for in people AFTER they are vaccinated.

[Altavia]

And I can't think of any other disease that we test for in people AFTER they are vaccinated.

How about if you get an upper respiratory infection and in an abundance of caution, want to be sure it's not COVID?

[Altavia]

Are we back at The initial goal to avoid overwhelming hospitals and needing to delay elective surgery?

[blueash]

Of course, that won't happen since we don't test asymptomatic people for flu. Nor do we test them for any other disease except HIV, and in rare cases Tb. It's just COVID that has that honor, so no wonder we have so many "cases". And I can't think of any other disease that we test for in people AFTER they are vaccinated.

When there is a pertussis outbreak we would routinely test those with a significant cough and some with exposure to the ill child. All of these people were vaccinated. All of them. But they were tested because pertussis is a serious disease for infants. And the doctors needed to know who in the environment was carrying pertussis or mildly ill with it and might be spreading it to other at risk infants. Those who were positive were isolated until completing treatment which unlike Covid is available.

No one complained this was an attack on their freedom or civil liberty. Everyone understood that the health of the community was more important than a temporary inconvenience to the individual. Dead babies do tend to engender more sympathy than dead adults, so there was that factor.

[golfing eagles]

How about if you get an upper respiratory infection and in an abundance of caution, want to be sure it's not COVID?

Only if I were sick enough to warrant hospitalization, otherwise you wouldn't treat it any differently

[golfing eagles]

When there is a pertussis outbreak we would routinely test those with a significant cough and some with exposure to the ill child. All of these people were vaccinated. All of them. But they were tested because pertussis is a serious disease for infants. And the doctors needed to know who in the environment was carrying pertussis or mildly ill with it and might be spreading it to other at risk infants. Those who were positive were isolated until completing treatment which unlike Covid is available.

No one complained this was an attack on their freedom or civil liberty. Everyone understood that the health of the community was more important than a temporary inconvenience to the individual. Dead babies do tend to engender more sympathy than dead adults, so there was that factor.

Good one--didn't think of pertussis. And it's a good example of immunity waning at some point after vaccination

[Girlcopper]

Everything we now hear is based on Covid 19 "Case Counts".
Yet, I can't seem to find exactly what the Factual definition of a Covid case is.
I believe it means a positive test result, but then what does that mean?
Is it that you are currently testing positive, or that you were previously positive?
(For the record we got Vax'd. as soon a we possibly could get it, in later Jan.
To this point no known side effects, nor contracting Covid.) Thus, not anti Vax.
Just can't seem to get "The Rest of The Story". Yet, it is an hourly headline!
p.s. DHS has disclosed that over 1Mil. have come across the So. border so far this
year, with a totally unknown number of "Got Aways". They won't disclose how
many of those Illegals are positive Covid cases, nor were they are being sent
all over the country. So what factor are they contributing to the Covid spread?
Not being cynical, but not getting told factual information either.
Oh boy. Here we go again!!

[camaguey48]

Oh boy. Here we go again!!
Of course. This will continue until ........forever?

[Cheapbas]

Just go to YouTube and look for some people in lab coats, you’ll find the answer you want to hear

[doccraig]

Let me get this straight. If someone doesn’t agree with the numbers you feel are accurate, then your advice is to not discuss the issue any further? Where is the scientific rigor and intellectual honesty in this path?

[nick demis]

Everything we now hear is based on Covid 19 "Case Counts".
Yet, I can't seem to find exactly what the Factual definition of a Covid case is.
I believe it means a positive test result, but then what does that mean?
Is it that you are currently testing positive, or that you were previously positive?
(For the record we got Vax'd. as soon a we possibly could get it, in later Jan.
To this point no known side effects, nor contracting Covid.) Thus, not anti Vax.
Just can't seem to get "The Rest of The Story". Yet, it is an hourly headline!
p.s. DHS has disclosed that over 1Mil. have come across the So. border so far this
year, with a totally unknown number of "Got Aways". They won't disclose how
many of those Illegals are positive Covid cases, nor were they are being sent
all over the country. So what factor are they contributing to the Covid spread?
Not being cynical, but not getting told factual information either.

It is proven that if you have dead covid cells in your nasal passage, you will still test positive. I have become totally skeptical of any information that either side of the media are reporting and especially what the government and the CDC are reporting.

[Susan1717]

Having had Covid, I kept testing until I was a negative before I went around other people. Luckily I did not get very sick at all, no worse than a cold. I did discover though, even though I was one case and one person, every time I still tested positive within a several week range, it was counted as a new Covid case. They follow the tests not the people. This holds true for everyone that needed to keep testing before they could go back to work.

Supposedly the news says there’s a certain percentage of immigrants coming in that are refusing the vax, and a certain percentage that are testing positive. I’m sure that’s all factored and added in but we will never know definite answers or numbers.

I have had two antibodies tests and mine are still extremely high. I’ve been advised to wait for a vax as I would most likely get very bad reactions yet. That’s from my doctor, but I’m sure it’s all guess work still.

[Cindyd]

Read data as to who is not getting vaccinated vs listening & spreading propoganda please.

If your sick enough to think you need a Covid Test then test positive you are your infected it’s quite simple.
I seriously doubt every single person crossing the border is infected some but not all.
I’m more concerned with the anti vaccine movement even Franklin Graham is loosing his flock. Many Evangelical scammers are telling there flock not to take the vaccine and not to wear masks.

[Mohawksin]

Having had Covid, I kept testing until I was a negative before I went around other people. Luckily I did not get very sick at all, no worse than a cold. I did discover though, even though I was one case and one person, every time I still tested positive within a several week range, it was counted as a new Covid case. They follow the tests not the people. This holds true for everyone that needed to keep testing before they could go back to work.

Supposedly the news says there’s a certain percentage of immigrants coming in that are refusing the vax, and a certain percentage that are testing positive. I’m sure that’s all factored and added in but we will never know definite answers or numbers.

I have had two antibodies tests and mine are still extremely high. I’ve been advised to wait for a vax as I would most likely get very bad reactions yet. That’s from my doctor, but I’m sure it’s all guess work still.

>> every time I still tested positive within a several week range, it was counted as a new Covid case.<< Like Bill Gates states, "The COVID data are garbage".

[Proveone]

You asked one question, and actually answered it yourself, and then switched to something different - immigration. I think the immigrants should worry more about coming here because of the variant. I also think the rest of us should be worried more about the anti-vaxxers and others who are refusing to get vaccinated.

Everything we now hear is based on Covid 19 "Case Counts".
Yet, I can't seem to find exactly what the Factual definition of a Covid case is.
I believe it means a positive test result, but then what does that mean?
Is it that you are currently testing positive, or that you were previously positive?
(For the record we got Vax'd. as soon a we possibly could get it, in later Jan.
To this point no known side effects, nor contracting Covid.) Thus, not anti Vax.
Just can't seem to get "The Rest of The Story". Yet, it is an hourly headline!
p.s. DHS has disclosed that over 1Mil. have come across the So. border so far this
year, with a totally unknown number of "Got Aways". They won't disclose how
many of those Illegals are positive Covid cases, nor were they are being sent
all over the country. So what factor are they contributing to the Covid spread?
Not being cynical, but not getting told factual information either.

[Timothyimitchell]

Nothing is clear cut. The way it's meant to be

[merrymini]

The data is so politically tainted that I do not accept most information at face value.

[Sailohio]

I am astounded that this whole thread never mentions Covid deaths. Aren’t deaths the reason for your fears? According to the CDC’s own stats, link available, 25,888 died the week ending January 9, 2021 and 1264 died the week ending July 24, 2021 from Covid. Less than 26 per State on average. Over 70% of the deaths in January were to people over 65. Less than 3% of the deaths in January were to people under 18. Now these are CDC numbers based on “cause of death”. We are all aware of how these numbers have been manipulated or fudged if you will. Are you really worried about getting a chest cold or are you worried about dying? Also, the CDC, with over 16000 employees, never tracked the names of the people who died to see if Covid was truly the cause of death or if the people who died died from another reason and, oh by the way, they have Covid too. The kids under 18 were never tracked to see if they too had contributing factors or if Covid was truly the cause of death. Let’s focus on what really matters.

[Marine1974]

How would you know the factual unless you knew the facts ?
There is no stupid questions I’m told by experts .
Best to talk to your primary care doctor about or any Hospital .
I believe you will be educated as they are proud of the job they have
done and risks to themselves and their family taken and would be very forthcoming with information for you . Let’s not overload are healthcare system with people who have Covid 19 (probably variant type ) and are showing severe symptoms. Currently they say at a younger age group now .

[DAVES]

Everything we now hear is based on Covid 19 "Case Counts".
Yet, I can't seem to find exactly what the Factual definition of a Covid case is.
I believe it means a positive test result, but then what does that mean?
Is it that you are currently testing positive, or that you were previously positive?
(For the record we got Vax'd. as soon a we possibly could get it, in later Jan.
To this point no known side effects, nor contracting Covid.) Thus, not anti Vax.
Just can't seem to get "The Rest of The Story". Yet, it is an hourly headline!
p.s. DHS has disclosed that over 1Mil. have come across the So. border so far this
year, with a totally unknown number of "Got Aways". They won't disclose how
many of those Illegals are positive Covid cases, nor were they are being sent
all over the country. So what factor are they contributing to the Covid spread?
Not being cynical, but not getting told factual information either.

In terms of."factual information," all the information we have on anything is SPUN.
Data? They have never done a random survey, data on a group of several hundred thousand either at the start or now.

I recall reading years ago that they could not figure out why people in Africa lived far longer with aids then people in other parts of the world. The further study was interesting. There was money for aids care but not for other diseases. Doctors, needing to be paid, would misdiagnose a disease as aids to be paid.

We have exactly that happening with COVID 19.

We are told the infection rate in China is, I think I saw less than ours. Is the data collected and reported the same way?

A valid response. An un-spun response cost vs results. NOPE.

[DAVES]

There are confirmed and probable cases. Confirmed are as described - confirmed by a positive COVID test. Could be a PCR test or other and you can debate the merits of the different test all you want but they are confirmed cases. Probable cases are just that, someone made a determination that a case was most likely to be COVID. Just as with the confirmed cases, you can debate the merits of the observation as much as one wants.

If someone said the actual cases were off by 10% I personally wouldn't argue since nobody really knows. That number would still be directionally correct. If someone said the actual cases were off by 50% I'd not discuss the topic with that person any longer as they were coming at this with a different objective than many. With regards to someone testing positive more than once - again, probably not significant in the macro view.

Not sure what relevance the immigration numbers have on this. The data clearly shows (of late) that the overwhelming majority of cases are from folks who have not been vaccinated. If you could prove that the immigrants that were crossing the border were subsequently traveling to areas where the majority of the residents were not vaccinated then you could probably make a credible argument the surge was a result of immigration crossings or at least contributed to by those crossings. Makes for great news headlines but the correlation/causation argument has never been made because it would be incredibly hard to make.

The border crisis is not a COVID crisis but the media hasn't relied on demonstrable facts for years and clearly they have no intention of starting now.



Perhaps, a problem with all discussions. We need to discuss one problem at a time.

Reality does not happen that way. It is and always has been all at once.

People-will always blame someone other than themselves. The we are good they are bad we clearly see everywhere.

We demand perfect answers. Reality is there is no perfection.

[jimjamuser]

Everything we now hear is based on Covid 19 "Case Counts".
Yet, I can't seem to find exactly what the Factual definition of a Covid case is.
I believe it means a positive test result, but then what does that mean?
Is it that you are currently testing positive, or that you were previously positive?
(For the record we got Vax'd. as soon a we possibly could get it, in later Jan.
To this point no known side effects, nor contracting Covid.) Thus, not anti Vax.
Just can't seem to get "The Rest of The Story". Yet, it is an hourly headline!
p.s. DHS has disclosed that over 1Mil. have come across the So. border so far this
year, with a totally unknown number of "Got Aways". They won't disclose how
many of those Illegals are positive Covid cases, nor were they are being sent
all over the country. So what factor are they contributing to the Covid spread?
Not being cynical, but not getting told factual information either.
The Delta variant can spread itself to (on average) 5 people. The previous US variant could spread it to 2 people. So, that is the basis for the answer to that last question posed - there IS just no way to accurately quantify spread due to ANY particular group.

Personally, I see NO reason to question how and from where cases are counted - that matters NOT to me! If I were bothered, I would simply refer to hospitalizations and deaths. To me, it is NOT THE ACCURACY of the numbers of a particular POINT in time. I concentrate my attention on the TRENDS from the CDCs statistics. Trends affect my personal risk calculation and resultant behavior. I think of CV and Delta as a war that humans are fighting and are now on the defensive because we stopped our attack in about April because the anti-vaxxers wanted to show their support for Russian inspired ideas that have succeeded in splitting our America - and sending the US into a tailspin of chaos. So, we have retreated and the ENEMY MUTATED and now has stronger weapons. Our Captains and Lieutenants are dazed and confused and shouting orders that contradict each other.

So, personally, I am more WORRIED about big-picture concepts than small statistical details!

[jimjamuser]

Are we back at The initial goal to avoid overwhelming hospitals and needing to delay elective surgery?
I mentioned last week that elective surgeries for many would be cancelled. And I was dismissed by many loud posters as some ranting alarmist. If you cry "wolf" and a wolf pack is really circling your small village - are you REALLY an alarmist or are you just a concerned citizen?

[Ben Franklin]

You'll never get the correct answer in this forum, however, if you stay at a Holiday Inn Express tonight...

I have no answer, other than if you simply treat this like the flu, then a whole lot more people will die. The death count from COVID in the last 1.5 years is more than double all of those who died from the flu over the past 10 years. Maybe Mother Earth is fighting back?

[jimjamuser]

It is proven that if you have dead covid cells in your nasal passage, you will still test positive. I have become totally skeptical of any information that either side of the media are reporting and especially what the government and the CDC are reporting.
This kind of information (or disbelief of it) IS EXACTLY why Moscow pays the big bucks to hackers and trolls - it is easier and cheaper to infect the US with the stupidity of chaos than to actually invade our borders physically. A lie travels around the world 5 times before the truth starts to catch up. Lies and disinformation are powerful - they have spawned a social media and a TV channel in the US. That IS the reason that more people are confused and give up trying to think clearly after their introduction around 1995. Ultimately misinformation IS the reason that vaccinations leveled off around April and a NEW, wonderful bouncing baby VIRUS named Delta (like Delta Dawn) was born (or more accurately, mutated). And some religious minority is only TOO HAPPY to line up to kiss cute little Delta Dawn (or are we talking Delta Doom?)

[jimjamuser]

You'll never get the correct answer in this forum, however, if you stay at a Holiday Inn Express tonight...

I have no answer, other than if you simply treat this like the flu, then a whole lot more people will die. The death count from COVID in the last 1.5 years is more than double all of those who died from the flu over the past 10 years. Maybe Mother Earth is fighting back?
The mother that is BEGGING for MERCY!

[jmpate]

Everything we now hear is based on Covid 19 "Case Counts".
Yet, I can't seem to find exactly what the Factual definition of a Covid case is.
I believe it means a positive test result, but then what does that mean?
Is it that you are currently testing positive, or that you were previously positive?
(For the record we got Vax'd. as soon a we possibly could get it, in later Jan.
To this point no known side effects, nor contracting Covid.) Thus, not anti Vax.
Just can't seem to get "The Rest of The Story". Yet, it is an hourly headline!
p.s. DHS has disclosed that over 1Mil. have come across the So. border so far this
year, with a totally unknown number of "Got Aways". They won't disclose how
many of those Illegals are positive Covid cases, nor were they are being sent
all over the country. So what factor are they contributing to the Covid spread?
Not being cynical, but not getting told factual information either.

A "case" of COVID is a positive test for the virus. However, many +COVID people have no symptoms but have been exposed to the virus and have developed antibodies or resistence to the virus. What should be tracked because it's more accurate is, "the number of "+ Covid cases with symptoms." Those are the people who can infect others. Those with a + Covid test w/o symptoms do not infect or cause illness in others.

I think that the mis-handling & reporting of +COVID tests is a means in which to scare the public and is uncalled for. But it is the sign of the times. Stay healthy, exercise, eat well and stay away from sick people is always the best approach during these times.

[GoPacers]

A "case" of COVID is a positive test for the virus. However, many +COVID people have no symptoms but have been exposed to the virus and have developed antibodies or resistence to the virus. What should be tracked because it's more accurate is, "the number of "+ Covid cases with symptoms." Those are the people who can infect others. Those with a + Covid test w/o symptoms do not infect or cause illness in others.

I think that the mis-handling & reporting of +COVID tests is a means in which to scare the public and is uncalled for. But it is the sign of the times. Stay healthy, exercise, eat well and stay away from sick people is always the best approach during these times.

Asymptomatic +COVID (your terminology) people can MOST DEFINITELY transmit the virus and infect other people. Not sure where you heard otherwise as it is undeniably wrong.

[Bay Kid]

You must trust whatever the govern tells us. You know they wouldn't lie to us.

[ThirdOfFive]

Everything we now hear is based on Covid 19 "Case Counts".
Yet, I can't seem to find exactly what the Factual definition of a Covid case is.
I believe it means a positive test result, but then what does that mean?
Is it that you are currently testing positive, or that you were previously positive?
(For the record we got Vax'd. as soon a we possibly could get it, in later Jan.
To this point no known side effects, nor contracting Covid.) Thus, not anti Vax.
Just can't seem to get "The Rest of The Story". Yet, it is an hourly headline!
p.s. DHS has disclosed that over 1Mil. have come across the So. border so far this
year, with a totally unknown number of "Got Aways". They won't disclose how
many of those Illegals are positive Covid cases, nor were they are being sent
all over the country. So what factor are they contributing to the Covid spread?
Not being cynical, but not getting told factual information either.
Depends on just who is doing the defining, apparently.

Example: that ghastly 600,000 "COVID death count" number that is tossed around so blithely. Is that the number of people who died WITH COVID, or the mere 6% of that total (36,000) that verifiably died OF COVID?

(sigh)

[Bill14564]

Depends on just who is doing the defining, apparently.

Example: that ghastly 600,000 "COVID death count" number that is tossed around so blithely. Is that the number of people who died WITH COVID, or the mere 6% of that total (36,000) that verifiably died OF COVID?

(sigh)

Do a search on these forums for "excess deaths" to find several discussions of this.

"With" or "Of" or space aliens, over 500,000 more people died in 2020 than in 2019 or 2018 or 2017 or any previous year. There was something different in 2020 that resulted in those 500,000 additional deaths. The vast majority of the country (the world, really) understands that Covid was the reason for those excess deaths.

[JMintzer]

I have had two antibodies tests and mine are still extremely high. I’ve been advised to wait for a vax as I would most likely get very bad reactions yet. That’s from my doctor, but I’m sure it’s all guess work still.

I had Covid before the tests were readily available. Like you a very mild case... Low grade fever and body aches/chills for 36 hours... That was almost 18 months ago...

Since then, I've had multiple antibody tests (still positive) and multiple PCR tests (all negative)...

I received the Moderna vaccine a soon as it was available (first week of January) and I thought I was gonna' die!

Painful swollen arm (I couldn't even lift it) body aches, lethargy...

I seriously though about forgoing the 2nd shot (since it was supposed to be even worse than the first one!)...

Maybe it was due to my antibodies (but it was almost a year later)...

Funny, the 2nd shot? Nothing... I didn't feel a thing... Go figure...

[JMintzer]

Do a search on these forums for "excess deaths" to find several discussions of this.

"With" or "Of" or space aliens, over 500,000 more people died in 2020 than in 2019 or 2018 or 2017 or any previous year. There was something different in 2020 that resulted in those 500,000 additional deaths. The vast majority of the country (the world, really) understands that Covid was the reason for those excess deaths.

Your numbers don't add up...

Fact check: The US saw more deaths in 2020 than in 2019 (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/08/fact-check-u-s-more-deaths-2020-than-2019-covid-19/4141839001/)

Provisional Mortality Data — United States, 2020 | MMWR (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e1.htm)

[Bill14564]

Your numbers don't add up...

Fact check: The US saw more deaths in 2020 than in 2019 (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/08/fact-check-u-s-more-deaths-2020-than-2019-covid-19/4141839001/)

Provisional Mortality Data — United States, 2020 | MMWR (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e1.htm)

The numbers are not wrong. I have not statistically estimated the age-adjusted Covid-19 deaths from among the excess deaths in 2020. *That* number might be *only* in the 345,000 range. I'll leave it up to you to decide if you can discount the argument because *only* 345,000 died of Covid.

I stated that over 500,000 more people died in 2020 than in 2019. Both your fact-check links give the number of deaths in 2019 as 2.8M. One gives the number of deaths in 2020 as 3.35M (550,000 more than in 2019) and the other says that "preliminary data shows the year has already surpassed 3.2 million" (or 400,000 and growing).

You might also check this data (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2020-2021/data/NCHSData29.csv). You can add the weekly numbers in column G for each year to get yearly totals. 2019 comes in at 2,845,793 and 2020 at 3,433,852.

[GrumpyOldMan]

The numbers are not wrong. I have not statistically estimated the age-adjusted Covid-19 deaths from among the excess deaths in 2020. *That* number might be *only* in the 345,000 range. I'll leave it up to you to decide if you can discount the argument because *only* 345,000 died of Covid.

I stated that over 500,000 more people died in 2020 than in 2019. Both your fact-check links give the number of deaths in 2019 as 2.8M. One gives the number of deaths in 2020 as 3.35M (550,000 more than in 2019) and the other says that "preliminary data shows the year has already surpassed 3.2 million" (or 400,000 and growing).

You might also check this data (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2020-2021/data/NCHSData29.csv). You can add the weekly numbers in column G for each year to get yearly totals. 2019 comes in at 2,845,793 and 2020 at 3,433,852.

And of course, people saying there were not enough deaths to add up, also completely ignore the underreporting of COVID cases or deaths because of lack of systematic testing. But, will then say in the very next post that under testing results in all the statistics being wrong.

[coffeebean]

Asymptomatic +COVID (your terminology) people can MOST DEFINITELY transmit the virus and infect other people. Not sure where you heard otherwise as it is undeniably wrong.

Agree. THIS is the reason why masking is so important, especially for the un-vaccinated. They are much more apt to be infected than vaccinated people. This asymptomatic spread was the main reason for the mask mandates in the early part of this pandemic. Those WITH symptoms were supposed to be in quarantine. Right? How can anyone not know this at this point in time???

[coffeebean]

Depends on just who is doing the defining, apparently.

Example: that ghastly 600,000 "COVID death count" number that is tossed around so blithely. Is that the number of people who died WITH COVID, or the mere 6% of that total (36,000) that verifiably died OF COVID?

(sigh)

I get what you are saying BUT......those folks that died WITH Covid may just be alive today if they did not contract Covid. We will never know how many of those folks with comorbidities that died WITH Covid could have continued on with their merry lives with the treatments and medications that had kept them alive until Covid got to them.

[golfing eagles]

I get what you are saying BUT......those folks that died WITH Covid may just be alive today if they did not contract Covid. We will never know how many of those folks with comorbidities that died WITH Covid could have continued on with their merry life with the treatments and medications that had kept them alive until Covid got to them.

Probably a lot of them, at least for a while.

There is probably a "normal" curve associated with the underlying comorbidities. At one end were the people who were going to die the next day no matter what, at the other end those that would have likely lived 5, 10 or even more years (depends of the "comorbidity"---Type 2 diabetes being better than stage 4 cancer). So if the average life expectancy for these comorbidities was say 2 years, all comers, then hundreds of thousands could be considered dying OF the virus, not just WITH it.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Probably a lot of them, at least for a while.

There is probably a "normal" curve associated with the underlying comorbidities. At one end were the people who were going to die the next day no matter what, at the other end those that would have likely lived 5, 10 or even more years (depends of the "comorbidity"---Type 2 diabetes being better than stage 4 cancer). So if the average life expectancy for these comorbidities was say 2 years, all comers, then hundreds of thousands could be considered dying OF the virus, not just WITH it.

You know that doesn't matter to anyone that wants to believe it is all a hoax that the entire world and all the scientists from all those other countries are falling for.

Yeah, right.