Deer in US have COVID antibodies

[GrumpyOldMan]

This can't be good:

Nature: Wild U.S. deer found with coronavirus antibodies (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02110-8)

[Escape Artist]

This can't be good:

Nature: Wild U.S. deer found with coronavirus antibodies (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02110-8)

If I recall, last year they found cats who had gotten COVID and they recovered. Maybe a dog, also, can't remember.

[Two Bills]

Not to worry. Deer do social distancing with humans.
Methinks some look to hard for problems!:icon_wink:

[golfing eagles]

This can't be good:

Nature: Wild U.S. deer found with coronavirus antibodies (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02110-8)

Deer in US have COVID antibodies?????

Maybe they were smarter than some people and got the vaccine:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[drducat]

Deer in US have COVID antibodies?????

Maybe they were smarter than some people and got the vaccine:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Right.....

[golfing eagles]

Right.....

If only it were that simple......

[GrumpyOldMan]

Not to worry. Deer do social distancing with humans.
Methinks some look to hard for problems!:icon_wink:

I am NOT looking for a problem, jeez. I am looking for information. I guess 1/2 million dead Americans strike me as a problem I pay attention to.

[golfing eagles]

I am NOT looking for a problem, jeez. I am looking for information. I guess 1/2 million dead Americans strike me as a problem I pay attention to.

But what about our dear deer?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Two Bills]

I am NOT looking for a problem, jeez. I am looking for information. I guess 1/2 million dead Americans strike me as a problem I pay attention to.

The problem is, there is to much information, and a large chunk of it feeds the trolls, confuses, or is unnecessary
Nothing to do with half a million dead in US.

[Two Bills]

But what about our dear deer?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Are they crossing the border in large numbers though?

[GrumpyOldMan]

The problem is, there is to much information, and a large chunk of it feeds the trolls, confuses, or is unnecessary
Nothing to do with half a million dead in US.

I agree with what you say, the problem is who decides how much is too much, and who decides what is important? I threw this out as a data point, nothing more. I wanted to see what people thought were.

I actually respect several people that post here regularly. They bring up very valid alternative interpretations of things. That expands my awareness.

BTW, on the same idea, Lake Tahoe has been closed due to Plague being found in rodents. Should we ignore that also?

[holger danske]

But what about our dear deer?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
No worries the CDC reports they have "herd immunity".

[GrumpyOldMan]

No worries the CDC reports they have "herd immunity".

OMG!

You won, that is by far the BEST post I have ever read on TOTV!

:bigbow:

[Bill14564]

I agree with what you say, the problem is who decides how much is too much, and who decides what is important? I through this out as a data point, nothing more. I wanted to see what people thought were.

I actually respect several people that post here regularly. They bring up very valid alternative interpretations of things. That expands my awareness.

BTW, on the same idea, Lake Tahoe has been closed due to Plague being found in rodents. Should we ignore that also?

Not ignore it but understand it and put it in perspective. Some areas of South Lake Tahoe have been closed because some chipmunks tested positive; the areas are expected to be open by Friday. I did not see where anyone had contracted the plague due to this though I did see mention of someone contracting it last year. As it turns out, there are typically between one and four cases of the plague every year.

Not all of Lake Tahoe is closed, it isn't expected to be closed for long, and it isn't due to infected humans.

So temporary closures due to plague in chipmunks in Lake Tahoe is something to be aware of if you are planning to be in the area but it isn't a life changing event and isn't even a concern for the vast majority of us.

[Escape Artist]

Not ignore it but understand it and put it in perspective. Some areas of South Lake Tahoe have been closed because some chipmunks tested positive; the areas are expected to be open by Friday. I did not see where anyone had contracted the plague due to this though I did see mention of someone contracting it last year. As it turns out, there are typically between one and four cases of the plague every year.

Not all of Lake Tahoe is closed, it isn't expected to be closed for long, and it isn't due to infected humans.

So temporary closures due to plague in chipmunks in Lake Tahoe is something to be aware of if you are planning to be in the area but it isn't a life changing event and isn't even a concern for the vast majority of us.

I read about a camper getting the plague in the past year or so. It was a woman and I can't remember the location but I'm pretty sure it was in California so maybe it was in Lake Tahoe. They had cautioned people not feed the squirrels or chipmunks because they were carriers. Luckily, there's an antidote for the Plague and the woman recovered. By the way, I think they call it hantavirus and it's carried by rodents of all kinds mostly in wilderness areas.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Not ignore it but understand it and put it in perspective. Some areas of South Lake Tahoe have been closed because some chipmunks tested positive; the areas are expected to be open by Friday. I did not see where anyone had contracted the plague due to this though I did see mention of someone contracting it last year. As it turns out, there are typically between one and four cases of the plague every year.

Not all of Lake Tahoe is closed, it isn't expected to be closed for long, and it isn't due to infected humans.

So temporary closures due to plague in chipmunks in Lake Tahoe is something to be aware of if you are planning to be in the area but it isn't a life changing event and isn't even a concern for the vast majority of us.

Thank you, all good points, and why I posted, to get someone else's perspective.

[coffeebean]

OMG!

You won, that is by far the BEST post I have ever read on TOTV!

:bigbow:

Agree... Good one GE!

[Aces4]

It’s time to mount a campaign, anything that moves should be vaccinated! (That includes equipment, you never know...)

Maybe we could give all the animals a $5,000. incentive.

[GrumpyOldMan]

It’s time to mount a campaign, anything that moves should be vaccinated! (That includes equipment, you never know...)

Maybe we could give all the animals a $5,000. incentive.

I hear contrails work for spreading things around, we could add the vaccine to jet fuel LOL!

[PugMom]

let me remind you this is an animal's disease. the covid shot has been available for dogs (not sure cats) for as long as i can remember. it hits certain breeds more than others, esp. rottweilers, but this pug gets the shot each year along with the distemper shot. vets say it's picked up from the ground, 1 vet i knew even told us it was 'in the air', like some sort of mystical being, lol. do not be alarmed.

[blueash]

I read about a camper getting the plague in the past year or so. It was a woman and I can't remember the location but I'm pretty sure it was in California so maybe it was in Lake Tahoe. They had cautioned people not feed the squirrels or chipmunks because they were carriers. Luckily, there's an antidote for the Plague and the woman recovered. By the way, I think they call it hantavirus and it's carried by rodents of all kinds mostly in wilderness areas.


Hantavirus (https://www.cdc.gov/hantavirus/index.html)and plague are not the same. One is a virus, and like almost all viruses there is no "antidote". Plague is a bacterial disease (https://www.cdc.gov/plague/transmission/index.html) and is effectively treated with antibiotics if recognized.

Both illnesses have rodents as their hosts and are mostly found in western states.

And on topic, the spread to deer of Covid could make it more difficult to control. Covid has shown itself to spread easily and to mutate frequently. All our vaccines available to date target specific characteristics of the unique spike protein, and they do a great job of that. However, with billions of copies of Covid being reproduced there will be more mutations. Most mutations are of no evolutionary advantage. Some however produce a change which alters the virus in a way that may make it more contagious or reproduce more efficiently, or of greatest concern, alter the structure of the spike protein in a way that the antibodies induced by the vaccine, or previous natural infection, make the new virus unrecognized.

We will see the vaccine industry working hard to manufacture updated products to keep up with alterations in the circulating variants. If you want to worry, read about the lambda variant. It is too soon for a definitive scientific statement, but early reports suggest it produces a spike protein that is significantly resistant to the vaccine. Hopefully those early reports will be wrong.

The other take home message is that Covid is entirely able to mutate to have new pathological types on its own in animals whether humans, or deer, or bats or pangolins.

[Bill14564]

let me remind you this is an animal's disease. the covid shot has been available for dogs (not sure cats) for as long as i can remember. it hits certain breeds more than others, esp. rottweilers, but this pug gets the shot each year along with the distemper shot. vets say it's picked up from the ground, 1 vet i knew even told us it was 'in the air', like some sort of mystical being, lol. do not be alarmed.

The canine coronavirus is not the same as COVID-19 (https://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/condition/canine-coronavirus).

[CFrance]

No worries the CDC reports they have "herd immunity".
Best post of the day!:clap2:

[Escape Artist]

Hantavirus (https://www.cdc.gov/hantavirus/index.html)and plague are not the same. One is a virus, and like almost all viruses there is no "antidote". Plague is a bacterial disease (https://www.cdc.gov/plague/transmission/index.html) and is effectively treated with antibiotics if recognized.

Both illnesses have rodents as their hosts and are mostly found in western states.

And on topic, the spread to deer of Covid could make it more difficult to control. Covid has shown itself to spread easily and to mutate frequently. All our vaccines available to date target specific characteristics of the unique spike protein, and they do a great job of that. However, with billions of copies of Covid being reproduced there will be more mutations. Most mutations are of no evolutionary advantage. Some however produce a change which alters the virus in a way that may make it more contagious or reproduce more efficiently, or of greatest concern, alter the structure of the spike protein in a way that the antibodies induced by the vaccine, or previous natural infection, make the new virus unrecognized.

We will see the vaccine industry working hard to manufacture updated products to keep up with alterations in the circulating variants. If you want to worry, read about the lambda variant. It is too soon for a definitive scientific statement, but early reports suggest it produces a spike protein that is significantly resistant to the vaccine. Hopefully those early reports will be wrong.

The other take home message is that Covid is entirely able to mutate to have new pathological types on its own in animals whether humans, or deer, or bats or pangolins.

How about a civet cat? I'm just being snarky!

Thanks for the clarification about the Hantavirus. I recall several cases of that in Colorado and New Mexico, as you said, transmitted by mice. I think the Hantavirus can be serious or even deadly if not diagnosed properly.

[jimjamuser]

I agree with what you say, the problem is who decides how much is too much, and who decides what is important? I threw this out as a data point, nothing more. I wanted to see what people thought were.

I actually respect several people that post here regularly. They bring up very valid alternative interpretations of things. That expands my awareness.

BTW, on the same idea, Lake Tahoe has been closed due to Plague being found in rodents. Should we ignore that also?
Whitetail deer can live pretty close to human homes - so, deer ticks fall off them onto plants on a woods trail - then bite a dog and then back home to people's house. That is just throwing out possible ideas. Also, I believe that a Puma in a zoo caught CV.

[golfing eagles]

Whitetail deer can live pretty close to human homes - so, deer ticks fall off them onto plants on a woods trail - then bite a dog and then back home to people's house. That is just throwing out possible ideas. Also, I believe that a Puma in a zoo caught CV.

And that's how a dog can introduce Lyme disease into your home, but not COVID---completely different route of transmission. (Oh, and if your the guy who likes my big words, the spirochete of Lyme disease is Borrelia burgdorferi and the tick is Ixodes dermacentor)

[golfing eagles]

Hantavirus (https://www.cdc.gov/hantavirus/index.html)and plague are not the same. One is a virus, and like almost all viruses there is no "antidote". Plague is a bacterial disease (https://www.cdc.gov/plague/transmission/index.html) and is effectively treated with antibiotics if recognized.

Both illnesses have rodents as their hosts and are mostly found in western states.

And on topic, the spread to deer of Covid could make it more difficult to control. Covid has shown itself to spread easily and to mutate frequently. All our vaccines available to date target specific characteristics of the unique spike protein, and they do a great job of that. However, with billions of copies of Covid being reproduced there will be more mutations. Most mutations are of no evolutionary advantage. Some however produce a change which alters the virus in a way that may make it more contagious or reproduce more efficiently, or of greatest concern, alter the structure of the spike protein in a way that the antibodies induced by the vaccine, or previous natural infection, make the new virus unrecognized.

We will see the vaccine industry working hard to manufacture updated products to keep up with alterations in the circulating variants. If you want to worry, read about the lambda variant. It is too soon for a definitive scientific statement, but early reports suggest it produces a spike protein that is significantly resistant to the vaccine. Hopefully those early reports will be wrong.

The other take home message is that Covid is entirely able to mutate to have new pathological types on its own in animals whether humans, or deer, or bats or pangolins.

You are correct. Plague and Hantavirus are vastly different. We still get a few cases of plague in the US each year, mostly in the southwest. The bacteria is Yersinia pestis, and is easily killed by plain old penicillin (if you recognize it early enough). Whether this is the same bacteria that caused the black death in the 14th century is still being debated.

[jimjamuser]

And that's how a dog can introduce Lyme disease into your home, but not COVID---completely different route of transmission. (Oh, and if your the guy who likes my big words, the spirochete of Lyme disease is Borrelia burgdorferi and the tick is Ixodes dermacentor)
Nice!

[brick010207]

This can't be good:

Nature: Wild U.S. deer found with coronavirus antibodies (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02110-8)
Thanks for the post. Found it interesting and educational as are most of your posts. Too bad the Village Idiots who regularly post don't see the value of these posts and provide useful response.

[GeriS]

This can't be good:

Nature: Wild U.S. deer found with coronavirus antibodies (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02110-8)
I guess deer have a 99.xx% recovery just like humans.

[midiwiz]

I agree with what you say, the problem is who decides how much is too much, and who decides what is important? I threw this out as a data point, nothing more. I wanted to see what people thought were.

I actually respect several people that post here regularly. They bring up very valid alternative interpretations of things. That expands my awareness.

BTW, on the same idea, Lake Tahoe has been closed due to Plague being found in rodents. Should we ignore that also?

then to be fair you have to include comparative data such as - both of these charts from the CDC website. It is very unfortunate that the bonus for all media outlets is that fear sells. Rather it be sex (come on guys laugh!) That aside hopefully these 2 charts lend more of a "so what about the deer" not being mean to deer but in reality animals do get colds and flu.

[midiwiz]

It’s time to mount a campaign, anything that moves should be vaccinated! (That includes equipment, you never know...)

Maybe we could give all the animals a $5,000. incentive.

as a consideration to that statement please keep in mind that currently over 70% of the cases in MA are vaccinated people, as well as there is no reliable proof that having the vaccine is anything different than not. This is all a lab experiment, there are no guarantees than those vaccinated in 3 years will develop something unexpected etc.

Typically all drives go though years of testing in various situations (including on humans) in lab controlled conditions - this is real life experimental testing.

I think we've all been alive long enough to know "too good to be true" usually has a cliff attached to it. There are better topics than C19, heck I don't remember this much posting over Flu type A when it was taking out people left and right..... not a peep.

[Marine1974]

Good post I learned something.
Unfortunately some people just don’t know how to be nice and post some ugly things . Just have to ignore them . I hope I don’t ever meet them .

[Bill14564]

as a consideration to that statement please keep in mind that currently over 70% of the cases in MA are vaccinated people, as well as there is no reliable proof that having the vaccine is anything different than not. This is all a lab experiment, there are no guarantees than those vaccinated in 3 years will develop something unexpected etc.

Typically all drives go though years of testing in various situations (including on humans) in lab controlled conditions - this is real life experimental testing.

I think we've all been alive long enough to know "too good to be true" usually has a cliff attached to it. There are better topics than C19, heck I don't remember this much posting over Flu type A when it was taking out people left and right..... not a peep.

Again and again and again.....

There is reliable proof all around that the vaccine is effective. Hospitals are filling around the country with unvaccinated individuals. The number of daily deaths has almost doubled and over 90% are unvaccinated individuals. What more proof can you ask for?

"there are no guarantees than those vaccinated in 3 years..." There are no guarantees in life. I could say there are no guarantees that unvaccinated exposure to the virus won't lead to long-term effects that appear in another eight months.

The virus is intended to kill us and has already taken 613,000 people. Do you really want to say, "well I'll take my chances that it fails?"

The vaccine is designed to keep us alive and has proven to be safe and effective for over 190 million in the US alone. Do you really want to say, "well I read something on facebook that I believe more than the scientists, the reporters, the hospitals, my friends, and my own eyes?"

[golfing eagles]

as a consideration to that statement please keep in mind that currently over 70% of the cases in MA are vaccinated people, as well as there is no reliable proof that having the vaccine is anything different than not. This is all a lab experiment, there are no guarantees than those vaccinated in 3 years will develop something unexpected etc.

Typically all drives go though years of testing in various situations (including on humans) in lab controlled conditions - this is real life experimental testing.

I think we've all been alive long enough to know "too good to be true" usually has a cliff attached to it. There are better topics than C19, heck I don't remember this much posting over Flu type A when it was taking out people left and right..... not a peep.

As a consideration to that statement, consider this: it is 100% WRONG Not even close.

A single, two week sampling in a single county with multiple large gatherings showed that 74% of the positive COVID tests (and "cases" if you consider a test=a case) were among the vaccinated. That was a blurb and then repeated by Walensky from the CDC. However, what percentage of the crowd was vaccinated? If it was 100% then 100% of the "cases" would have been vaccinated. If it was 0%, then 0% of the "cases" would have been vaccinated. So without knowing that percentage, the statement is meaningless and I'm surprised the CDC even mentioned it much less make a big deal out of it and change recommendations.
What is more important is that out of all the hospitalizations during that time, only 4 people were vaccinated. And on this mornings local news, out of 1060 hospitalized COVID patients in the Orlando Advent Health System, 96% were UNvaccinated.

[GrumpyOldMan]

then to be fair you have to include comparative data such as - both of these charts from the CDC website. It is very unfortunate that the bonus for all media outlets is that fear sells. Rather it be sex (come on guys laugh!) That aside hopefully these 2 charts lend more of a "so what about the deer" not being mean to deer but in reality animals do get colds and flu.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make. You point out a comparison of two other causes of death, neither of which are contagious.

Would you feel the same if someone sneezed on your and a couple of days later you had a heart attack?

Minimalizing a half million deaths like this that are preventable is not acceptable to me. Heart attacks and other non-contagious causes of death are bad and most preventable to some degree, but you cannot kill me with a heart attack by simply sneezing on me. The treatment for heart attacks does not have to change because there is a breakout of a new variant of heart attacks in other countries.

It is like comparing crayons and cream soda.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Again and again and again.....

There is reliable proof all around that the vaccine is effective. Hospitals are filling around the country with unvaccinated individuals. The number of daily deaths has almost doubled and over 90% are unvaccinated individuals. What more proof can you ask for?

"there are no guarantees than those vaccinated in 3 years..." There are no guarantees in life. I could say there are no guarantees that unvaccinated exposure to the virus won't lead to long-term effects that appear in another eight months.

The virus is intended to kill us and has already taken 613,000 people. Do you really want to say, "well I'll take my chances that it fails?"

The vaccine is designed to keep us alive and has proven to be safe and effective for over 190 million in the US alone. Do you really want to say, "well I read something on facebook that I believe more than the scientists, the reporters, the hospitals, my friends, and my own eyes?"


I completely agree with your post, except I would prefer people stop using the US death count and start using the world death count of 4.25 million deaths. And even more important is the worldwide case count - since the more people that get COVID the more it mutates. This is a pandemic, it is not a local (to the US) outbreak.

We certainly need to focus on getting our own house in order, but we also need to be very aware that the spread of COVID around the world will also result in Americans dying.

[Swoop]

I am not sure what point you are trying to make. You point out a comparison of two other causes of death, neither of which are contagious.

Would you feel the same if someone sneezed on your and a couple of days later you had a heart attack?

Minimalizing a half million deaths like this that are preventable is not acceptable to me. Heart attacks and other non-contagious causes of death are bad and most preventable to some degree, but you cannot kill me with a heart attack by simply sneezing on me. The treatment for heart attacks does not have to change because there is a breakout of a new variant of heart attacks in other countries.

It is like comparing crayons and cream soda.

You are protected from the virus by the vaccine, so doesn’t that remove the “contagious” aspect, or are you beginning to doubt the effectiveness of the vaccine? Are you worried that if someone sneezes on you, you will die?
As far as preventable deaths, 440,000 deaths every year are smoking related. 44,000 are from second hand smoke… For only one year has Covid outpaced smoking related deaths. Where is the outrage? Are those deaths “minimalized”?

[davem4616]

This can't be good:

Nature: Wild U.S. deer found with coronavirus antibodies (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02110-8)


wouldn't it be great if they found out that those pesky lovebugs also had the antibodies...at least then I'd feel confident that my windshield would be safe from the delta virus....well, maybe not until we'd been through the second lovebug season though

:icon_wink:

[PugMom]

The canine coronavirus is not the same as COVID-19 (https://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/condition/canine-coronavirus).

yes, you are correct, & this is true, because it USED to be species specific, which mean you can't give it to animals, & they cannot give it to you. not sure about anything re: this new strain, however. is anybody's guess :)

[Buckeye Bleau]

Oh my gosh, so deer, dogs and cats can get immunity, how could that be since the CDC never gave them the vaccine!
It’s a miracle, oh wait those only happen with God and scientists don’t believe in God, we are doomed.

[coffeebean]

As a consideration to that statement, consider this: it is 100% WRONG Not even close.

A single, two week sampling in a single county with multiple large gatherings showed that 74% of the positive COVID tests (and "cases" if you consider a test=a case) were among the vaccinated. That was a blurb and then repeated by Walensky from the CDC. However, what percentage of the crowd was vaccinated? If it was 100% then 100% of the "cases" would have been vaccinated. If it was 0%, then 0% of the "cases" would have been vaccinated. So without knowing that percentage, the statement is meaningless and I'm surprised the CDC even mentioned it much less make a big deal out of it and change recommendations.
What is more important is that out of all the hospitalizations during that time, only 4 people were vaccinated. And on this mornings local news, out of 1060 hospitalized COVID patients in the Orlando Advent Health System, 96% were UNvaccinated.

This pandemic, at this point in time, is clearly a pandemic of the un-vaccianted. There can be no disputing this information if those stats are, in fact, correct.

[midiwiz]

I am not sure what point you are trying to make. You point out a comparison of two other causes of death, neither of which are contagious.

Would you feel the same if someone sneezed on your and a couple of days later you had a heart attack?

Minimalizing a half million deaths like this that are preventable is not acceptable to me. Heart attacks and other non-contagious causes of death are bad and most preventable to some degree, but you cannot kill me with a heart attack by simply sneezing on me. The treatment for heart attacks does not have to change because there is a breakout of a new variant of heart attacks in other countries.

It is like comparing crayons and cream soda.

did you care about getting the Flu? a cold? they are both coronas.... no where does it state that if your get C19 you die. you can't factually state that any of this was preventable - you can prevent disease - you can't stop a virus, but if you really think you can then go for it I'll wait..... but I'll be waiting a very very long time.

Let me put it in simpler terms.... you're scared to death of C19, you go get vaccinated , you came out and BAM run over by a semi..... think about it. If you don't get that one then I can't help that it's pretty clear as day.

The POINT of the response was that it really doesn't matter how many people died form C19. nobody cares about the other numbers, nobody used to care about the flu deaths either.

[GrumpyOldMan]

You are protected from the virus by the vaccine, so doesn’t that remove the “contagious” aspect, or are you beginning to doubt the effectiveness of the vaccine? Are you worried that if someone sneezes on you, you will die?
As far as preventable deaths, 440,000 deaths every year are smoking related. 44,000 are from second hand smoke… For only one year has Covid outpaced smoking related deaths. Where is the outrage? Are those deaths “minimalized”?

Are you suggesting that vaccines have to be 100% effective or there is no use in getting them?

I said in my post, you apparently ignored, that there are preventable causes of death.
That is sad, and I am in favor of government funding of research into how to prevent preventable deaths.

That on the other hand has NOTHING to do with COVID. Your choice to not be vaccinated puts my health/life at risk. That takes the decisions OUT of your hands and puts them into the governments' hands as a matter of public safety.

I am not obsessively worried about being sneezed on and dying, I acknowledge it is possible with the DELTA variant. Do you drive through neighborhoods are 120 mph? Why not, are you afraid of dying?

Being concerned, aware, and taking reasonable precautions is not the same as being "afraid" or in a panic - as so many insult me by saying.

[GrumpyOldMan]

did you care about getting the Flu? a cold? they are both coronas.... no where does it state that if your get C19 you die. you can't factually state that any of this was preventable - you can prevent disease - you can't stop a virus, but if you really think you can then go for it I'll wait..... but I'll be waiting a very very long time.

Let me put it in simpler terms.... you're scared to death of C19, you go get vaccinated , you came out and BAM run over by a semi..... think about it. If you don't get that one then I can't help that it's pretty clear as day.

The POINT of the response was that it really doesn't matter how many people died form C19. nobody cares about the other numbers, nobody used to care about the flu deaths either.

I look both ways when I walk out. But, a truck could still run off the road and kill me - there are approximately 500 deaths in parking lots each year. I wonder what percentage of people that go into stores are killed each year - I expect more than 500?

So, you go into a grocery store, and bam someone sneezes and you die from COVID. We KNOW that happens. People are being admitted into hospitals every day and rapidly (exponentially) growing numbers. Because they were infected by someone else sneezing on them (or the equivalent) and the one being sneezed on was not vaccinated.

If you can't see a difference here. Then you are right no point in chatting.

[GrumpyOldMan]

did you care about getting the Flu? a cold? they are both coronas.... .

What? Seriously!

Did you know that you can die from breathing oxygen?

You can.

Oxygen is a deadly poison.

Why are you breathing it?

Drawing common-sense conclusions about things you do not understand is not just futile it is dangerous.

And yes, Oxygen is toxic, and if you breathe pure oxygen it can kill you.

[Swoop]

Are you suggesting that vaccines have to be 100% effective or there is no use in getting them?

I said in my post, you apparently ignored, that there are preventable causes of death.
That is sad, and I am in favor of government funding of research into how to prevent preventable deaths.

That on the other hand has NOTHING to do with COVID. Your choice to not be vaccinated puts my health/life at risk. That takes the decisions OUT of your hands and puts them into the governments' hands as a matter of public safety.

I am not obsessively worried about being sneezed on and dying, I acknowledge it is possible with the DELTA variant. Do you drive through neighborhoods are 120 mph? Why not, are you afraid of dying?

Being concerned, aware, and taking reasonable precautions is not the same as being "afraid" or in a panic - as so many insult me by saying.
I never suggested that vaccines need to be 100% effective, but you’re the one who has been vaccinated and apparently doesn’t believe in it effectiveness...
Otherwise how am I putting your life at risk…
I have chosen not to get a vaccine with a new and unproven track record. I’m not suggesting people not get the vaccine, but you and others are demanding that I must get it. But not for my benefit, but to protect you…

[GrumpyOldMan]

I never suggested that vaccines need to be 100% effective, but you’re the one who has been vaccinated and apparently doesn’t believe in it effectiveness...
Otherwise how am I putting your life at risk…
I have chosen not to get a vaccine with a new and unproven track record. I’m not suggesting people not get the vaccine, but you and others are demanding that I must get it. But not for my benefit, but to protect you…

You are purring my life at risk because the vaccine is NOT 100% effective, as you just said.

And even more importantly, those who are not vaccinated contribute to the mutations by allowing the virus to spread. The next variant (Lamda?) maybe well ignore the vaccination.

If everyone (enough) were vaccinated the virus would be controlled and unable to mutate.

Wearing a mask, getting vaccinated, and other measures all contribute to containing and stopping the virus. Those who don't participate are making it worse and leading to more preventable deaths than are necessary. Some of those dying are vaccinated.

[coffeebean]

I never suggested that vaccines need to be 100% effective, but you’re the one who has been vaccinated and apparently doesn’t believe in it effectiveness...
Otherwise how am I putting your life at risk…
I have chosen not to get a vaccine with a new and unproven track record. I’m not suggesting people not get the vaccine, but you and others are demanding that I must get it. But not for my benefit, but to protect you…
Actually, the need for everyone who CAN be vaccinated is to protect those who CANNOT be vaccinated. Vaccinated folks have protection but those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons are at our mercy as a population to protect them. Herd immunity is what will protect those who CANNOT be vaccinated or are not eligible at this time to be vaccinated (children). We have been asked to protect our children. How can anyone say "no" to that?

[golfing eagles]

I never suggested that vaccines need to be 100% effective, but you’re the one who has been vaccinated and apparently doesn’t believe in it effectiveness...
Otherwise how am I putting your life at risk…
I have chosen not to get a vaccine with a new and unproven track record. I’m not suggesting people not get the vaccine, but you and others are demanding that I must get it. But not for my benefit, but to protect you…

You would not be protecting me, I've been vaccinated and despite all the misinformation on this site, the breakthrough rate is EXTREMELY low (for now). Will that vaccine protect against all variants---I doubt it, but so far so good and we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
Meanwhile....... I'm happy to wear a mask to protect those that have a medical reason not to get vaccinated. I'm happy to wear a mask to protect children who are unvaccinated. And I'd happy to wear a mask to protect patients if I got drafted back into service. BUT..... I really don't want to wear a mask to protect those who CHOOSE to not get vaccinated because they are misinformed, or are making a political statement, or are simply more afraid of the vaccine than the disease. But that is what it is coming to, and I'm really not happy that the hundreds of millions that did the right thing and got vaccinated will now have to go back to wearing a mask, or possibly enduring another round of shut-downs and restrictions, because of those that THINK they know better than the experts and avoid vaccination. So, you see, your decision not to get vaccinated does affect the rest of us.

[Barkriver]

This can't be good:

Nature: Wild U.S. deer found with coronavirus antibodies (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02110-8)

Yeah, but they still have the transmissible equivalent of mad cow disease.

[golfing eagles]

Yeah, but they still have the transmissible equivalent of mad cow disease.

Right. Don't hold your breath.

There are reports of deer , particularly in Missouri and Arkansas, that have CDW (Chronic Wasting Disease), which is a prion disease equivalent to BSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy) ---mad cow----in cattle and both Creutzfeldt-Jacob and Kuru in humans.
To date there have been exactly ZERO cases in humans.

The last time "mad cow" was transmitted to humans was in the 1960's in the UK, because a rancher chopped up unwanted "cow parts" and fed them to other cattle that then went to market. Out of tens of thousands of people exposed, only 200 came down with the disease---apparently you need a special kind of genetic make up to get it.

Kuru, on the other hand, is spread human to human by eating the brain of an infected human. This disease was confined to the highlands of New Guinea when cannibalism was still practiced (hopefully not any more)

Creutzfeldt-Jacob pops up sometimes after neurological tissue is disturbed, as in neurosurgery or even a root canal

So, if you are the least bit worried, just don't eat venison or elk. And get vaccinated since COVID is far bigger concern

[Swoop]

You would not be protecting me, I've been vaccinated and despite all the misinformation on this site, the breakthrough rate is EXTREMELY low (for now). Will that vaccine protect against all variants---I doubt it, but so far so good and we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
Meanwhile....... I'm happy to wear a mask to protect those that have a medical reason not to get vaccinated. I'm happy to wear a mask to protect children who are unvaccinated. And I'd happy to wear a mask to protect patients if I got drafted back into service. BUT..... I really don't want to wear a mask to protect those who CHOOSE to not get vaccinated because they are misinformed, or are making a political statement, or are simply more afraid of the vaccine than the disease. But that is what it is coming to, and I'm really not happy that the hundreds of millions that did the right thing and got vaccinated will now have to go back to wearing a mask, or possibly enduring another round of shut-downs and restrictions, because of those that THINK they know better than the experts and avoid vaccination. So, you see, your decision not to get vaccinated does affect the rest of us.

I did not request, nor do I expect you to wear a mask for me.
If you will provide me with a study of the mRNA vaccines showing their long term safety, I will be more than happy to read it. In the absence of that, I will choose not to be part of the largest vaccine trial in history.
And before you throw out “protecting the children” since the start of Covid, just over 400 children 0-18 have died from Covid. In that same timeframe more than 70,000 children 0-18 died from other causes…

[golfing eagles]

I did not request, nor do I expect you to wear a mask for me.
If you will provide me with a study of the mRNA vaccines showing their long term safety, I will be more than happy to read it. In the absence of that, I will choose not to be part of the largest vaccine trial in history.
And before you throw out “protecting the children” since the start of Covid, just over 400 children 0-18 have died from Covid. In that same timeframe more than 70,000 children 0-18 died from other causes…

Part 1: I agree. You, personally, have never asked me to wear a mask for you. HOWEVER, the powers that be are making me wear a mask BECAUSE of people like you

Part 2: Using that logic, did you participate in the massive vaccine trial called "polio vaccine"? Perhaps you participated in the large scale "trial" of Pertussis vaccine. How about tetanus, diphtheria, rubella, rubeola, mumps, smallpox?

100 years ago, 9 of the top 10 causes of death were infectious diseases. Now it is only 1---and guess what?---it is influenza and it occupies 9th place.

So, all I can say is I prefer to be vaccinated, even if you consider it a research project, because 100 years ago it was the human race as a giant petri dish instead.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

did you care about getting the Flu? a cold? they are both coronas.... no where does it state that if your get C19 you die.

We'll just stop the quote at the very beginning. If you create your opinion based on something so obviously fake that even a non-scientist in 4th grade knows this, then there's no point in even reading the rest of the post.

The flu is NOT a coronavirus. It is an influenza virus. That's why it's called the flu.

[Swoop]

Part 1: I agree. You, personally, have never asked me to wear a mask for you. HOWEVER, the powers that be are making me wear a mask BECAUSE of people like you

Part 2: Using that logic, did you participate in the massive vaccine trial called "polio vaccine"? Perhaps you participated in the large scale "trial" of Pertussis vaccine. How about tetanus, diphtheria, rubella, rubeola, mumps, smallpox?

100 years ago, 9 of the top 10 causes of death were infectious diseases. Now it is only 1---and guess what?---it is influenza and it occupies 9th place.

So, all I can say is I prefer to be vaccinated, even if you consider it a research project, because 100 years ago it was the human race as a giant petri dish instead.

Those are all “traditional” vaccines. This is a new delivery system. There have been no long term mRNA studies.

I stand by my statement that this is the largest vaccine trial in history. Initially we were told that those who were vaccinated couldn’t be infected with Covid and couldn’t spread Covid. They didn’t know if it would be effective against mutations. They didn’t know if boosters would be required. And they still don’t know if there will be any long term side effects.

That said, if I was in the high risk group, I would be vaccinated.

[golfing eagles]

Those are all “traditional” vaccines. This is a new delivery system. There have been no long term mRNA studies.

I stand by my statement that this is the largest vaccine trial in history. Initially we were told that those who were vaccinated couldn’t be infected with Covid and couldn’t spread Covid. They didn’t know if it would be effective against mutations. They didn’t know if boosters would be required. And they still don’t know if there will be any long term side effects.

That said, if I was in the high risk group, I would be vaccinated.

They were ALL new vaccines when they came out with no long term side effects known. This is no different

[Swoop]

They were ALL new vaccines when they came out with no long term side effects known. This is no different

I guess time will tell. I truly hope there are none, but these are not just new vaccines, it is a new technology. One that has never had a long term study.

[Bill14564]

Those are all “traditional” vaccines. This is a new delivery system. There have been no long term mRNA studies.

I stand by my statement that this is the largest vaccine trial in history. Initially we were told that those who were vaccinated couldn’t be infected with Covid and couldn’t spread Covid. They didn’t know if it would be effective against mutations. They didn’t know if boosters would be required. And they still don’t know if there will be any long term side effects.

That said, if I was in the high risk group, I would be vaccinated.

Too many news sources drawing conclusions rather than reporting the news. Don't know what you heard but I heard a vaccinated person was 20 times less likely to become sick with Covid. I never heard 100% or "couldn't catch Covid."

[coffeebean]

Right. Don't hold your breath.

There are reports of deer , particularly in Missouri and Arkansas, that have CDW (Chronic Wasting Disease), which is a prion disease equivalent to BSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy) ---mad cow----in cattle and both Creutzfeldt-Jacob and Kuru in humans.
To date there have been exactly ZERO cases in humans.

The last time "mad cow" was transmitted to humans was in the 1960's in the UK, because a rancher chopped up unwanted "cow parts" and fed them to other cattle that then went to market. Out of tens of thousands of people exposed, only 200 came down with the disease---apparently you need a special kind of genetic make up to get it.

Kuru, on the other hand, is spread human to human by eating the brain of an infected human. This disease was confined to the highlands of New Guinea when cannibalism was still practiced (hopefully not any more)

Creutzfeldt-Jacob pops up sometimes after neurological tissue is disturbed, as in neurosurgery or even a root canal

So, if you are the least bit worried, just don't eat venison or elk. And get vaccinated since COVID is far bigger concern

I just threw up a little in my mouth. Thanks for that GE.

All kidding aside.......you are such a host of information on this site. I really appreciate your contributions.

[coffeebean]

Those are all “traditional” vaccines. This is a new delivery system. There have been no long term mRNA studies.

I stand by my statement that this is the largest vaccine trial in history. Initially we were told that those who were vaccinated couldn’t be infected with Covid and couldn’t spread Covid. They didn’t know if it would be effective against mutations. They didn’t know if boosters would be required. And they still don’t know if there will be any long term side effects.

That said, if I was in the high risk group, I would be vaccinated.

How Do We Know the COVID-19 Vaccine Won’t Have Long-Term Side Effects? (https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects)

[Swoop]

How Do We Know the COVID-19 Vaccine Won’t Have Long-Term Side Effects? (https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects)

To summarize; historically vaccines haven’t had long term side effects, so these shouldn’t either. Sure mRNA vaccines are new, but scientists have toyed with the technology for years, although never studied the long term effects…

So the title of the article is pretty misleading, since no one “knows” if there will be long term side effects…

[MDLNB]

This can't be good:

Nature: Wild U.S. deer found with coronavirus antibodies (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02110-8)


Oh Dear!!! :shocked: