Federal Judge Sides with NCL

[coffeebean]

So far looking good for the cruise lines. IMHO, the only way to keep passengers and crew safe on cruise ships right now during this pandemic is to sail 100% vaccinated passengers and crew. Even 95% should be safe enough but the cruise line should have the ability to require proof of vaccination in every US home port, including Florida.

Judge Sides With Norwegian Cruise Line in Suit Over Vaccination Proof in Florida - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/judge-sides-with-norwegian-cruise-line-in-suit-over-vaccination-proof-in-florida-11628471468)

Norwegian Cruise Wins Order Protecting Vaccines Requirement - Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-09/norwegian-cruise-line-wins-u-s-injunction-for-vaccination-proof)

[Bill14564]

Funny, I missed your posts on the two cases where Florida prevailed.

(Really only one case that FL won. It looked like they were going to lose on appeal but the court retracted their decision)

[Orvil]

The only reason the cruises are at 95% and not 100% is because children cannot be vaccinated at this point. That 5% are children. If you are an adult, you will need to vaccinate.

[jimjamuser]

The only reason the cruises are at 95% and not 100% is because children cannot be vaccinated at this point. That 5% are children. If you are an adult, you will need to vaccinate.
The Cruise companies whole business model depends on its customers having a SAFE and comfortable trip. So, the company wants to be SAFE and the customers want SAFETY. Therefore, why should ONE person be able to DICTATE that they be UNSAFE and it is against their wishes - ONE person? I think that the Judge made the right decision!

[Chi-Town]

I belong to a golf group and a card playing group. If you're not vaccinated you don't play. So easy. Having it where you're not vaccinated you don't cruise is just as easy.

[LateBoomer]

i'm not cruising again until all of this nonsense is over

[JMintzer]

i'm not cruising again until all of this nonsense is over

Let me fix that for you...

"i'm not cruising again ..."

[JMintzer]

I belong to a golf group and a card playing group. If you're not vaccinated you don't play. So easy. Having it where you're not vaccinated you don't cruise is just as easy.

Do you demand to see their "papers"?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'm fully vaccinated, so is my husband. I'll get the 3rd shot from Pfizer if it's implemented here, and I'll drag my spouse to get a second J&J it ever becomes necessary and available.

We liked NCL when we went on our honeymoon, but I've heard it's not *as* nice as it used to be. Maybe if they start offering smaller ships so people don't have to choose between one mega ship and another, we'll sail on them again.

[fishon]

I wonder how many groups we will be able to discriminate against in the future with this court decision?

[JMintzer]

I'm fully vaccinated, so is my husband. I'll get the 3rd shot from Pfizer if it's implemented here, and I'll drag my spouse to get a second J&J it ever becomes necessary and available.

We liked NCL when we went on our honeymoon, but I've heard it's not *as* nice as it used to be. Maybe if they start offering smaller ships so people don't have to choose between one mega ship and another, we'll sail on them again.

True, but the ships don't use sails anymore... ;)

[coffeebean]

The only reason the cruises are at 95% and not 100% is because children cannot be vaccinated at this point. That 5% are children. If you are an adult, you will need to vaccinate.
NCL's plan is to deny children under 12 passage at this point. No vaccine. No cruise.

[coffeebean]

Do you demand to see their "papers"?

I was wondering the same thing. Do your groups use an honor system?

[coffeebean]

I wonder how many groups we will be able to discriminate against in the future with this court decision?

Let's not worry about the future. Let's just focus on public health during a global pandemic that seems to be beating us up.

[JoMar]

I wonder how many groups we will be able to discriminate against in the future with this court decision?

I hope whatever group decides to put others in harm way we can identify and take steps to keep those that want to not be in harms way protected.

[Boomer]

I say, "YAY!"

[Topspinmo]

I say yawn, going cruising is the very BOTTOM of my priority list during the human induced pandemic.

[kkingston57]

I wonder how many groups we will be able to discriminate against in the future with this court decision?

Probably very few. They are a business and are mostly interested in how much money they can make on a long term basis.

I am sure that there plenty of good lawyers who will not hesitate filing claims and alleging negligence because cruise ship allowed person on ship who was not vaccinated. I am not an attorney but have read that there are previous court decisions which this court replied upon when making their decision.

[Number 10 GI]

I hope whatever group decides to put others in harm way we can identify and take steps to keep those that want to not be in harms way protected.

So all that is required is for someone to CLAIM that a person(s)/group(s) are a threat and they can be persecuted. Didn't a certain country back in the 30's and 40's do that and came up with a "final solution"?

[New Englander]

So far looking good for the cruise lines. IMHO, the only way to keep passengers and crew safe on cruise ships right now during this pandemic is to sail 100% vaccinated passengers and crew. Even 95% should be safe enough but the cruise line should have the ability to require proof of vaccination in every US home port, including Florida.

Judge Sides With Norwegian Cruise Line in Suit Over Vaccination Proof in Florida - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/judge-sides-with-norwegian-cruise-line-in-suit-over-vaccination-proof-in-florida-11628471468)

Norwegian Cruise Wins Order Protecting Vaccines Requirement - Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-09/norwegian-cruise-line-wins-u-s-injunction-for-vaccination-proof)

:agree:

[New Englander]

I'm fully vaccinated, so is my husband. I'll get the 3rd shot from Pfizer if it's implemented here, and I'll drag my spouse to get a second J&J it ever becomes necessary and available.

We liked NCL when we went on our honeymoon, but I've heard it's not *as* nice as it used to be. Maybe if they start offering smaller ships so people don't have to choose between one mega ship and another, we'll sail on them again.

None of the cruise lines are as nice as they used to be.

[golfing eagles]

So all that is required is for someone to CLAIM that a person(s)/group(s) are a threat and they can be persecuted. Didn't a certain country back in the 30's and 40's do that and came up with a "final solution"?

But long before that they came up with that idea in Salem, Massachusetts. Or was it the lions in the Roman coliseum? Or maybe the brick pits in Goshen, Egypt?

[Villageswimmer]

None of the cruise lines are as nice as they used to be.

True. Even the luxury lines.

[John41]

Do you demand to see their "papers"?

All fully vaccinated passengers will have a metal tag clipped to their ear like cows do.

[coffeebean]

All fully vaccinated passengers will have a metal tag clipped to their ear like cows do.

Not quite but almost. Some cruise lines have ID bands for the vaccinated passengers to wear so they are easily identified and are allowed admittance to "vaccinated ONLY" areas of the ship. They also have their cruise ship card identify them as vaccinated.

[SkBlogW]

I wanna go on the soon to be covid survivors superior immunity cruises.

No vaxxers allowed!

Added benefit, most of the cruisers will be younger, slimmer, and better looking. :MOJE_whot:

[stanley]

I'll bet you most of the "vaccers" here that talk big about going on a cruise won't...they don't trust their pokes.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'll bet you most of the "vaccers" here that talk big about going on a cruise won't...they don't trust their pokes.

I'll take that bet.

Hand over the cash so I can afford to buy the ticket.

[stanley]

I'll take that bet.

Hand over the cash so I can afford to buy the ticket.

That's one hell of a cop out. You first..

[JoMar]

So all that is required is for someone to CLAIM that a person(s)/group(s) are a threat and they can be persecuted. Didn't a certain country back in the 30's and 40's do that and came up with a "final solution"?

Well there's a leap.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

That's one hell of a cop out. You first..

I can't afford it. That's the only reason we're not booking a trip for next season.

Being vaccinated is a huge relief to both of us. It means we have a lower risk of getting sick in the first place. We might get the virus - but our risk of having bad symptoms is much lower. We're eager to go on a cruise. Soon as we can afford it.

Now put up or - stop buggin me.

[Escape Artist]

Cruise ships are germ incubators. This is one industry that shouldn't have come back. Even before COVID, they were the source of every nasty virus out there. Remember all those ships quarantined because of outbreaks of Norovirus? That happened often, as well as other nasty diseases. My friend went on a cruise to Hawaii and got so sick that on the way back the ship had to make an emergency dock in Mexico so she could be taken off the ship in a stretcher and taken by ambulance first to a Mexican hospital and then across the border to an American one.

[stanley]

I can't afford it. That's the only reason we're not booking a trip for next season.

Being vaccinated is a huge relief to both of us. It means we have a lower risk of getting sick in the first place. We might get the virus - but our risk of having bad symptoms is much lower. We're eager to go on a cruise. Soon as we can afford it.

Now put up or - stop buggin me.

You started.............:boxing2:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Cruise ships are germ incubators. This is one industry that shouldn't have come back. Even before COVID, they were the source of every nasty virus out there. Remember all those ships quarantined because of outbreaks of Norovirus? That happened often, as well as other nasty diseases. My friend went on a cruise to Hawaii and got so sick that on the way back the ship had to make an emergency dock in Mexico so she could be taken off the ship in a stretcher and taken by ambulance first to a Mexican hospital and then across the border to an American one.

We watched a Coast Guard helicopter send a cage down to pick up a guy who had a heart attack the night before, because there was no helipad on the ship or a spot large enough for the helicopter to land. That was during a storm on our way home from Bermuda our last cruise, a few years ago. His wife was still on the ship when he was air-lifted to the hospital in the States. We found out later that he died.

We STILL want to go on another cruise.

[stanley]

Well there's a leap.

Don't be too sure about that.............well it is just France..........
It’s just a slippery slope argument..until it’s not : NoNewNormal (https://www.reddit.com/r/NoNewNormal/comments/p18r8i/its_just_a_slippery_slope_argumentuntil_its_not/)

[Northwoods]

Not quite but almost. Some cruise lines have ID bands for the vaccinated passengers to wear so they are easily identified and are allowed admittance to "vaccinated ONLY" areas of the ship. They also have their cruise ship card identify them as vaccinated.

Thank goodness you can't buy a fake COVID vaccination card. Just like every dog that is in an establishment is a true service dog.

[Escape Artist]

Thank goodness you can't buy a fake COVID vaccination card. Just like every dog that is in an establishment is a true service dog.


Hey, you can buy a fake EVERYTHING! :ohdear:

[Garywt]

We are booked for next year. good to see that proof is needed to go. no different than cities requiring proof before they let anyone inside a building

[coffeebean]

I wanna go on the soon to be covid survivors superior immunity cruises.

No vaxxers allowed!

Added benefit, most of the cruisers will be younger, slimmer, and better looking. :MOJE_whot:

Do the statistics show that Covid survivors are not having re-infections at all with the Delta variant? Are they completely immune to variants?

Breakthrough infections of vaccinated people are extremely low according to this report. Vaccinated cruises still seem to be extremely safe with these kind of numbers........

More than 99.99% of fully vaccinated people have not had a severe breakthrough case, CDC data suggests (https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-08-09-21/h_9c6a79bada1c3b54c7d873635394a789)

[coffeebean]

I'll bet you most of the "vaccers" here that talk big about going on a cruise won't...they don't trust their pokes.

I would go on a cruise in a heart beat as I do very much trust the mRNA vaccine that I was given. I don't fear Covid being completely vaccinated but I would imagine not everyone feels as I do.

What I don't trust are the pesky safety protocols that change at the drop of a hat depending on how many people test positive during the cruise. There have been reports from folks who have been on ships lately that mask mandates for everyone on board have gone into effect mid cruise even if the protocol was no masking for vaxxed at the beginning of the cruise. There are also protocols for social distancing that have been implemented mid cruise and that just messes things up too as far as being able to attend activities and such. Another pesky protocol is if you are traced to a Covid positive person on board or an excursion, you are placed in quarantine until you have a negative test result and you will be put off the ship at the nearest port if you test positive. Why pay for this type of vacation? We just won't do it.

We will wait to cruise at this point when things settle down and the industry can offer a more consistent experience. We are not willing to pay for a vacation where we have to mask up when we don't do that in our every day life now.

[coffeebean]

Cruise ships are germ incubators. This is one industry that shouldn't have come back. Even before COVID, they were the source of every nasty virus out there. Remember all those ships quarantined because of outbreaks of Norovirus? That happened often, as well as other nasty diseases. My friend went on a cruise to Hawaii and got so sick that on the way back the ship had to make an emergency dock in Mexico so she could be taken off the ship in a stretcher and taken by ambulance first to a Mexican hospital and then across the border to an American one.

Sorry to hear about your friend. It helps to have a good immune system to begin with to keep safe on a cruise ship. That buffet just might get ya. Having said that, after more than 40 cruises together, neither hubby or I have ever gotten sick on a cruise. I know there is always the first time but we are careful and always do the "washy washy" thing on board to prevent a norovirus illness.

[coffeebean]

We watched a Coast Guard helicopter send a cage down to pick up a guy who had a heart attack the night before, because there was no helipad on the ship or a spot large enough for the helicopter to land. That was during a storm on our way home from Bermuda our last cruise, a few years ago. His wife was still on the ship when he was air-lifted to the hospital in the States. We found out later that he died.

We STILL want to go on another cruise.

We had a passenger needing evacuation on one of our cruises also when we were in Canadian waters. Medical emergencies happen on the sea just as much as on land. Never stopped us from cruising after that either. We found out the passenger survived thank goodness.

[coffeebean]

Thank goodness you can't buy a fake COVID vaccination card. Just like every dog that is in an establishment is a true service dog.

People that sell or purchase fake vaccine cards are criminals.

[Kelevision]

I'm fully vaccinated, so is my husband. I'll get the 3rd shot from Pfizer if it's implemented here, and I'll drag my spouse to get a second J&J it ever becomes necessary and available.

We liked NCL when we went on our honeymoon, but I've heard it's not *as* nice as it used to be. Maybe if they start offering smaller ships so people don't have to choose between one mega ship and another, we'll sail on them again.

Really, I’ve cruised, Crystal, Cunard, Azamara, Celebrity, Holland America, and NCL. NCL, is my favorite! The ship I was on was smaller and in 2019. I’ve never been on a mega ship at all.

[Kelevision]

I'll bet you most of the "vaccers" here that talk big about going on a cruise won't...they don't trust their pokes.

Good, they shouldn’t! Thanks to all those anti-vaxxers, we can no longer trust the vaccine. As stated by all medical experts.

[Blackbird45]

Let's not forget these are not government entities.
Business should be able to set there own regulations.
We keep on hearing the right not to get vaccinated.
The cruise lines should have the right to keep these people off their ships.
I totally understand why the Governor wants to remove all restrictions, it's good for Florida's economy.
But we all know if things go badly, like all politicians no matter what party they always deny and blame someone else.

[Fore!]

Not quite but almost. Some cruise lines have ID bands for the vaccinated passengers to wear so they are easily identified and are allowed admittance to "vaccinated ONLY" areas of the ship. They also have their cruise ship card identify them as vaccinated.
I wonder about the people who already have immunity. Why isolate them? What about all the break through cases of COVID in people who are already vaccinated? When one of those people come down with COVID on the ship, then what? They may have infected all those they were around ….is everyone then going to be isolated? Just because someone is vaccinated does not mean they can’t pass the virus to others. So many scenarios that you should consider besides your great idea to isolate those that have not been vaccinated. And before you all goes nuts..I am not an anti vaxxer

[Fore!]

We are booked for next year. good to see that proof is needed to go. no different than cities requiring proof before they let anyone inside a building
Or the government requiring proof of citizenship to enter the country. Or the government requiring proof of citizenship to vote. Right?

[Fore!]

We are booked for next year. good to see that proof is needed to go. no different than cities requiring proof before they let anyone inside a building
Or the government requiring proof of citizenship to enter the country. Or the government requiring proof of citizenship to vote. Right?

[Fore!]

Do the statistics show that Covid survivors are not having re-infections at all with the Delta variant? Are they completely immune to variants?

Breakthrough infections of vaccinated people are extremely low according to this report. Vaccinated cruises still seem to be extremely safe with these kind of numbers........

More than 99.99% of fully vaccinated people have not had a severe breakthrough case, CDC data suggests (https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-08-09-21/h_9c6a79bada1c3b54c7d873635394a789)
Right, and I believe the CDC? Lol

[Fore!]

Nazi troops forcing you to take a experimental liquid in your body. People have lost there ability to understand these corporations do not care about your health. They shame you into following the heard.Turn your brain on, or did all the pharmaceutical meds get to you. Why don't they give your free vitamins C, D, Zinc, elderberry. What up sheeple
Amen. If they would turn off the media and do their research and study history, they’d be much better off

[Seamus6]

Cruise ships are germ incubators. This is one industry that shouldn't have come back. Even before COVID, they were the source of every nasty virus out there. Remember all those ships quarantined because of outbreaks of Norovirus? That happened often, as well as other nasty diseases. My friend went on a cruise to Hawaii and got so sick that on the way back the ship had to make an emergency dock in Mexico so she could be taken off the ship in a stretcher and taken by ambulance first to a Mexican hospital and then across the border to an American one.

Norovirus is far more common on land than at sea. The only reason you here about it at sea is they are required to report to the feds. Out of 15,000+ cruises a year, they might have 5 outbreaks a year, maybe 10 in a particularly bad year but they all make the news, they don't write about other 99.9% of cruises with no outbreak or write (except maybe a county newsletter) about outbreaks at your grocery store salad bar, school cafeteria, buffet, stadium, movie theatre...etc. Also the cruise ship personnel are constantly sanitizing and are well trained how to do it. Homer at your local restaurant is probably using the same "cleaning" rag to wipe the counters at when he started 4 years ago and maybe washes it every month whether it needs it or not!
If you don't feel safe on a cruise ship, by all means stay on land for your piece of mind but if you eat at any of the places I mentioned, you are already taking a much higher risk than on a cruise ship, albeit a less publicized one.

I hope all stay healthy and happy.

Looking forward to my steamship cruise in September with 300 or so other 100% vaccinated fellow passengers and crew.

[tmbozoki@gmail.com]

Sadly so many now are more concerned about their perceived "safety" versus our hard fought liberties and rights. Russia and China loves this saga.

[stanley]

Good, they shouldn’t! Thanks to all those anti-vaxxers, we can no longer trust the vaccine. As stated by all medical experts.

Really? Because of the "anti vaccers" you don't trust the vaccine? Me thinks there is some underlying reasons and you are using that as an excuse.

[Hiltongrizz11]

i'm not cruising again until all of this nonsense is over

Well for the person that said they would never go on a cruise again until this nonsense was over, put your stuff away cuz you'll never go on a cruise again.

This fear-mongering will never be over. It might be seasonal like the flu at a minimum but it will never be over. So keep living your life in fear and discriminating against those who are not vaccinated even though they may have better antibodies than you, the Great Vaccinated One.

[Hiltongrizz11]

I hope whatever group decides to put others in harm way we can identify and take steps to keep those that want to not be in harms way protected.


Nothing can never go wrong with that kind of thinking can it? It's not like history has demonstrated a dozen times that when people start thinking like that, The inferior people start dying.

Way to go

[SkBlogW]

Good, they shouldn’t! Thanks to all those anti-vaxxers, we can no longer trust the vaccine. As stated by all medical experts.

Errr...The Delta variant was first spotted in India and was not caused by creepy anti vaxxer Fox news watchers who drive pick up trucks. :shocked:

[Dgodin]

I wonder how many groups we will be able to discriminate against in the future with this court decision?
Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905), was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court upheld the authority of states to enforce compulsory vaccination laws. The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.

[kendi]

Norovirus is far more common on land than at sea. The only reason you here about it at sea is they are required to report to the feds. Out of 15,000+ cruises a year, they might have 5 outbreaks a year, maybe 10 in a particularly bad year but they all make the news, they don't write about other 99.9% of cruises with no outbreak or write (except maybe a county newsletter) about outbreaks at your grocery store salad bar, school cafeteria, buffet, stadium, movie theatre...etc. Also the cruise ship personnel are constantly sanitizing and are well trained how to do it. Homer at your local restaurant is probably using the same "cleaning" rag to wipe the counters at when he started 4 years ago and maybe washes it every month whether it needs it or not!
If you don't feel safe on a cruise ship, by all means stay on land for your piece of mind but if you eat at any of the places I mentioned, you are already taking a much higher risk than on a cruise ship, albeit a less publicized one.

I hope all stay healthy and happy.

Looking forward to my steamship cruise in September with 300 or so other 100% vaccinated fellow passengers and crew.

Depends on the cruise line as to how well they clean. CDC has them rated.

[dankipp]

We go on two NCL cruises - "Outlaw Country", and "Cayamo" (Americana music). We really hope to be able to sail next spring, reasonably safely. We hope NCL will be allowed to require that we and our fellow passengers to be vaccinated.
We live in Nashville (and TV), and we love music and musicians. When John Prine died last year, Nashville mourned. We love our music, and our musicians, and we want to enjoy it with others so inclined. Please get vaccinated, if you haven't already, and let's have some fun, together!

[Windguy]

Do you demand to see their "papers"?
My guess is that you said that in jest. If not, I think there’s a huge difference between trusting your close friends to be honest and trusting complete strangers the way cruise lines would have to.

[LateBoomer]

We are veteran cruisers, but even before COVID, cruising is not what it used to be. The things that made it special, the benefits to frequent cruisers, have been slowly chipped away at by all the lines, unless you are spending huge bucks for suites etc. Now with distancing stuff? No thanks. I don't know if we're going back anyway. What made it special and a bit elegant has now changed to floating essentially with Walmart types, and with worse food. It's Southwest Airlines passengers in swimming suits (even in the dining rooms). No thanks. our vacay money is going elsewhere. All inclusives frankly can be a better value. We went to one last fall in Mexico and it was better than a cruise

[coconutmama]

My guess is that you said that in jest. If not, I think there’s a huge difference between trusting your close friends to be honest and trusting complete strangers the way cruise lines would have to.

Totally agree. You are supposed to have a drivers license to drive. No difference to us to have a vaccine card to travel.

[Blackbird45]

Put aside liberty and health.
It's good business sense for cruise ships and all companies to put in vaccine mandates.
If I have a choice to invest in either a company that has a vaccine mandate or not, I'd side with the vaccine.
If business has to close down because they didn't put this safety measure in place, good-by money.

[hrenner]

I wonder how many groups we will be able to discriminate against in the future with this court decision?
Keeping people safe is discriminating? Wow

[coffeebean]

Good, they shouldn’t! Thanks to all those anti-vaxxers, we can no longer trust the vaccine. As stated by all medical experts.

Which medical experts are claiming the vaccines are not to be trusted? From what I am hearing, reading and seeing on my MSM television news programs is the mRNA vaccines are still holding up very well against the Delta variant.

99.99% of fully vaccinated people are not hospitalized and are not dying. That is still extremely good protection if you ask me. Now, vaccinated people are getting infected but are experiencing either no symptoms or mild to moderate symptoms. I can live with that if I contract the virus. No worries.

[coffeebean]

I wonder about the people who already have immunity. Why isolate them? What about all the break through cases of COVID in people who are already vaccinated? When one of those people come down with COVID on the ship, then what? They may have infected all those they were around ….is everyone then going to be isolated? Just because someone is vaccinated does not mean they can’t pass the virus to others. So many scenarios that you should consider besides your great idea to isolate those that have not been vaccinated. And before you all goes nuts..I am not an anti vaxxer

It's a simple numbers game, the way I see it. Vaccinated people have breakthrough infections MUCH LESS than un-vaccinated people are contracting the virus. So, it stands to reason that there is much more of a chance of un-vaccinated people to be contagious and transmit the virus to others on a cruise ship. Vaccinated people, the data has shown, do not remain contagious nearly as long as un-vaxxed people so that can be considered into the scenario of a cruise ship.

It most certainly is a safer bet for the cruise lines to fill their ships with vaccinated people. Seems most cruisers prefer this too. I am an avid reader of Cruise Critic Forum and vaccinated cruises, without a doubt, is the way other avid cruisers want to vacation.

[coffeebean]

Right, and I believe the CDC? Lol

I believe the CDC completely. I'm really not into conspiracy theories. But.....that's just me.

[coffeebean]

Errr...The Delta variant was first spotted in India and was not caused by creepy anti vaxxer Fox news watchers who drive pick up trucks. :shocked:

Yes, the Delta variant was first discovered in India and that is a true statement. But........the Delta variant is being driven here in the US by anti-vaxxers in much greater numbers than vaccinated people who have a very low rate of breakthrough infections. There is no getting around that fact.

[coffeebean]

We are veteran cruisers, but even before COVID, cruising is not what it used to be. The things that made it special, the benefits to frequent cruisers, have been slowly chipped away at by all the lines, unless you are spending huge bucks for suites etc. Now with distancing stuff? No thanks. I don't know if we're going back anyway. What made it special and a bit elegant has now changed to floating essentially with Walmart types, and with worse food. It's Southwest Airlines passengers in swimming suits (even in the dining rooms). No thanks. our vacay money is going elsewhere. All inclusives frankly can be a better value. We went to one last fall in Mexico and it was better than a cruise

For hubby and me, there is nothing that compares to being on the water in a floating resort hotel with a water park (LOVE that stuff)......nothing! We learned quite some time ago to stay away from the main dining rooms. We dine only in the specialty restaurants and that elevates our experience to another level. We still do the buffet at breakfast but sometimes also do specialty restaurants at lunch if we don't go to the buffet then.

We have seen the decline you speak about as we have been cruising since 2001. We've done plenty of land vacations including all over Europe, Australia and Hawaii but we still prefer to be on a cruise ship at this time of our lives. Pack and unpack once. Can't wait to sail again.

[Number 10 GI]

Well there's a leap.

That was what the Jews said when all the persecution started. Read some of the past posts about Covid, masking, social distancing that have been made on this forum. There are a number of people that would have no problem with anti-vaccers and mask violators being arrested and "re-educated".

[Escape Artist]

For hubby and me, there is nothing that compares to being on the water in a floating resort hotel with a water park (LOVE that stuff)......nothing! We learned quite some time ago to stay away from the main dining rooms. We dine only in the specialty restaurants and that elevates our experience to another level. We still do the buffet at breakfast but sometimes also do specialty restaurants at lunch if we don't go to the buffet then.

We have seen the decline you speak about as we have been cruising since 2001. We've done plenty of land vacations including all over Europe, Australia and Hawaii but we still prefer to be on a cruise ship at this time of our lives. Pack and unpack once. Can't wait to sail again.

Thinking that you are truly safe with the vaccine and it solves all problems in terms of eliminating COVID from our lives is Fool's Gold. However, I'm pragmatic and tend to err on the side of caution so I am fully vaccinated but at the same time completely understand those who distrust/fear the vaccine. Court rulings and other mandates marginalize people like this and make them feel "lesser than". I can bring up of a couple examples but they would be off-topic and kind of hot button and I don't want to go there.

I'd also like to remind everyone that cruise ships and their passengers is how we got here in the first place. It was on the cruise ships that the first known cases of Americans affected with COVID-19 and it couldn't be contained.

I think cruising is a highly dangerous activity amid a global pandemic, especially with the likelihood of more variants, some which may not be controlled or affected by the vaccines.

[JoMar]

That was what the Jews said when all the persecution started. Read some of the past posts about Covid, masking, social distancing that have been made on this forum. There are a number of people that would have no problem with anti-vaccers and mask violators being arrested and "re-educated".

Those are in the minority, you will always find radicals on both sides of all issues. You will still find the conspiracy theorists all around us. The anti vaxxers are in the minority, and that minority shrinks every day. I'm ok with them choosing their direction but please don't ask me to take responsibility to keep them safe. The cruise lines should be able to make their own rules and hopefully the courts will up hold that....and we can all feel more secure....ships are a petri dish as it is.

[Chi-Town]

Here is what United Airlines has to say about their decision to require its employees to be vaccinated:

"Vaccines are — by far — the most effective way to protect people from the virus and its variants. An unvaccinated person is about 50 times more likely to be hospitalized for COVID-19 than a vaccinated person, and nearly 300 times more likely to die if infected"

How long before the cruise industry model is adopted for air travelers?

[flsteve]

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905), was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court upheld the authority of states to enforce compulsory vaccination laws. The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.

That has no connection to COVID-19 emergency use products. Please reference 21 U.S. Code 360bbb-3(e)(1)(A)(ii) "Appropriate conditions designed to ensure that individuals to whom the product is administered are informed-" (III) "of the option to accept or refuse administration of the product,..." (bold added)



You can't force vaccination by law on medical products for use in emergencies.

[MDLNB]

Cruises are already running out of Florida. My kid and spouse just returned from a seven day cruise. They were vaccinated but not everyone was. Just the majority. They tested anyone that were not vaccinated periodically. Those without vaccinations had to wear an arm band. Three people showed positive for infection during the cruise. Who cares if you were vaccinated, right?

[jimhurtt@twc.com]

True that! You motor all over the oceans. Not sail. The only thing that you hoist is your cocktail.

[coffeebean]

///

[coffeebean]

Cruises are already running out of Florida. My kid and spouse just returned from a seven day cruise. They were vaccinated but not everyone was. Just the majority. They tested anyone that were not vaccinated periodically. Those without vaccinations had to wear an arm band. Three people showed positive for infection during the cruise. Who cares if you were vaccinated, right?

That is just plain silly. Un-vaccinated people will just remove the ID bands and "pose" as vaccinated so they can traverse the ship as a vaccinated person. Someone on that cruise ship did not have their thinking cap on to have the un-vaccinated wear the ID bands. It has been reported by many folks on the cruise forums who have been sailing that it is the vaccinated people that wear the ID bands so they can enter the VACCINATED ONLY areas on the ship. I know Royal is doing it this way.

[Number 10 GI]

Those are in the minority, you will always find radicals on both sides of all issues. You will still find the conspiracy theorists all around us. The anti vaxxers are in the minority, and that minority shrinks every day. I'm ok with them choosing their direction but please don't ask me to take responsibility to keep them safe. The cruise lines should be able to make their own rules and hopefully the courts will up hold that....and we can all feel more secure....ships are a petri dish as it is.

The Bolsheviks and Nazis were in the minority also but had charismatic zealots that continually inflamed the "useful idiots". We have plenty of them in this country.
I agree with you that those of us that were vaccinated shouldn't have to do anything to protect the one who don't want the vaccine. Yep the cruise lines own their ships and it's a case of my house my rules.

[Fairway Cruises]

Probably very few. They are a business and are mostly interested in how much money they can make on a long term basis.

I am sure that there plenty of good lawyers who will not hesitate filing claims and alleging negligence because cruise ship allowed person on ship who was not vaccinated. I am not an attorney but have read that there are previous court decisions which this court replied upon when making their decision.

Well it can be seen both ways but some crucial facts may help. Vaccinated people can still catch Covid and can be carriers, therefore they can pass it on. So, with that in mind it really is a moot point.
A reminder that the vaccine is only to protect you from severe illness caused by Covid.
There is no requirement for children to be vaccinated and they will sail with NCL. Now, children can be carriers and therefore can infect people. So I really fail to see what NCL are trying to achieve other than a big PR exercise over other cruise lines, making out they are far more responsible than competitors?
Also remember if you have had Covid you now have antibodies affording you greater protection than a vaccine....do people who formerly had Covid also need to vaccinate before cruising on NCL? That's how stupid this whole thing has become. Less we all forget this virus affects a tiny minority (less than 1.5% of the population) and of those the majority are 80 or over.
Is it becoming clearer now? When will the madness stop? And why are people acting like the black death has arrived.

[coffeebean]

Well it can be seen both ways but some crucial facts may help. Vaccinated people can still catch Covid and can be carriers, therefore they can pass it on. So, with that in mind it really is a moot point.
A reminder that the vaccine is only to protect you from severe illness caused by Covid.
There is no requirement for children to be vaccinated and they will sail with NCL. Now, children can be carriers and therefore can infect people. So I really fail to see what NCL are trying to achieve other than a big PR exercise over other cruise lines, making out they are far more responsible than competitors?
Also remember if you have had Covid you now have antibodies affording you greater protection than a vaccine....do people who formerly had Covid also need to vaccinate before cruising on NCL? That's how stupid this whole thing has become. Less we all forget this virus affects a tiny minority (less than 1.5% of the population) and of those the majority are 80 or over.
Is it becoming clearer now? When will the madness stop? And why are people acting like the black death has arrived.

At this time, that answer is "YES". All passengers must be vaccinated. They do not accept proof of prior natural Covid infection. There is at least one cruise line that does accept proof of prior natural Covid infection within 90 days but I do not know the name of the cruise line.

[Spsmith444]

Since the pandemic we have been watching “Cruise Ship Killers” on the True Crime Network. Hmmm didn’t realize the amount of crime that happens on cruise ships and god forbid if your in international waters good luck finding justice.

[SkBlogW]

That is just plain silly. Un-vaccinated people will just remove the ID bands and "pose" as vaccinated so they can traverse the ship as a vaccinated person. Someone on that cruise ship did not have their thinking cap on to have the un-vaccinated wear the ID bands. It has been reported by many folks on the cruise forums who have been sailing that it is the vaccinated people that wear the ID bands so they can enter the VACCINATED ONLY areas on the ship. I know Royal is doing it this way.

Know what is even more silly? Vaccinated people thinking they are well protected from infection by Delta variant.

First, an article about Israel with data from their Ministry of Health showing that during the ramp up of Delta variant from May thru July, out of 7700 people who tested positive, 40% were fully vaccinated. Only 1% were individuals who had covid previously

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762)

Second, a new study by Mayo Clinic shows vaccines losing effectiveness against Delta

What they're saying: The study found the Pfizer vaccine was only 42% effective against infection in July, when the Delta variant was dominant. "If that's not a wakeup call, I don't know what is," a senior Biden official told Axios.

Driving the news: The study, conducted by nference and the Mayo Clinic, compared the effectiveness of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in the Mayo Clinic Health System over time from January to July.

Overall, it found that the Moderna vaccine was 86% effective against infection over the study period, and Pfizer's was 76%. Moderna's vaccine was 92% effective against hospitalization and Pfizer's was 85%.

But the vaccines' effectiveness against infection dropped sharply in July, when the Delta variant's prevalence in Minnesota had risen to over 70%
.
Moderna was 76% effective against infection, and Pfizer was only 42% effective.
The study found similar results in other states.

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness against Delta raises concern among Biden administration - Axios (https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-delta-biden-e9be4bb0-3d10-4f56-8054-5410be357070.html)

At this point I would feel safer getting on a ship with 100% covid survivors.

[CFrance]

True, but the ships don't use sails anymore... ;)
The nautical term "sailing" applies to more than just sailboats. Freighters sail, cruise ships sail, destroyers sail, etc. One's little ski boat does not sail.
Former sailor & parent of Maine Maritime Academy graduate.

[ROCKMUP]

Cruises are already running out of Florida. My kid and spouse just returned from a seven day cruise. They were vaccinated but not everyone was. Just the majority. They tested anyone that were not vaccinated periodically. Those without vaccinations had to wear an arm band. Three people showed positive for infection during the cruise. Who cares if you were vaccinated, right?

Hmm, I wonder where we've seen that before.

The idea that anyone would submit to that is mind blowing.

[MDLNB]

At this time, that answer is "YES". All passengers must be vaccinated. They do not accept proof of prior natural Covid infection. There is at least one cruise line that does accept proof of prior natural Covid infection within 90 days but I do not know the name of the cruise line.
Not true. They are accepting passengers that are not vaccinated.

[coffeebean]

Not true. They are accepting passengers that are not vaccinated.
I believe the question was regarding NCL. At this time, NCL only allows vaccinated people on board their ships. They are not even allowing children who are not eligible for vaccination.

[stanley]

They are not even allowing children who are not eligible for vaccination.

So what exactly does " not eligible" mean?

[coffeebean]

So what exactly does " not eligible" mean?

These are the children that are too young to be vaccinated. They are not eligible for their age yet.

[MDLNB]

So if the Delta virus is infecting vaccinated persons then the cruise lines should stay closed, right? Personally, I don't care whether they are open or closed since I do not "cruise." But, with all the Chicken Littles running around screaming "the sky is falling" we should be safe and require everyone to stay home and inside so they do not spread the virus, right? Yeah, I'm being sarcastic.

[Topspinmo]

Cruise line the safest. LOL. IMO cruise lines are breading grounds for every germ around the world.

[stanley]

These are the children that are too young to be vaccinated. They are not eligible for their age yet.

Again..........because it was deleted......but still on topic.......does that include the unborn???
Must be too sensitive a subject?

[coffeebean]

Cruise line the safest. LOL. IMO cruise lines are breading grounds for every germ around the world.


After 40 cruises, I have never been sickened on a cruise so I must have a decent immune system. I do the washy washy thing when on board but that has been a "thing" on cruise ships since my first time on a cruise ship in 2001. There have always been hand sanitizer stations on cruise ships everywhere, not just since Covid. The trick is to use them.

[coffeebean]

Again..........because it was deleted......but still on topic.......does that include the unborn???
Must be too sensitive a subject?

Not too sensitive a subject; I just don't know what you are getting at. ?????

EDIT: Thought about it more........... Are you referring to pregnant women getting the vaccine? They are being encouraged at this time to be vaccinated. The vaccine will offer protection to their unborn child which is a wonderful thing.

[stanley]

Not too sensitive a subject; I just don't know what you are getting at. ?????

EDIT: Thought about it more........... Are you referring to pregnant women getting the vaccine? They are being encouraged at this time to be vaccinated. The vaccine will offer protection to their unborn child which is a wonderful thing.

Yes that's what I'm getting at. Where is the research and proof the vaccine doesn't and won't in the future affect the fetus? There is none, there hasn't been enough time since the vaccine was developed. The CDC just throws crap to the wall and see's what sticks.
And you know............I have a problem when the CDC recommends "people" who are pregnant" to get the vaccine.

And it must be a sensitive subject since my first post on this was deleted by the mods

[coffeebean]

Yes that's what I'm getting at. Where is the research and proof the vaccine doesn't and won't in the future affect the fetus? There is none, there hasn't been enough time since the vaccine was developed. The CDC just throws crap to the wall and see's what sticks.
And you know............I have a problem when the CDC recommends "people" who are pregnant" to get the vaccine.

And it must be a sensitive subject since my first post on this was deleted by the mods

I see where you are coming from but the CDC has to make those educated decisions and I trust them to do that. They say it is better for the unborn child to have the protection than to be born with Covid which is what is happening when pregnant women contract Covid. It is a very tough call but they are erring on the safe side for Mom and baby. The announcement was made very recently and the CDC is getting out the message that they no longer say it is "OK" for pregnant women to get the vaccine; the CDC is encouraging pregnant women to get the vaccine. They deem these vaccines safe and I'm good with that.

[biker1]

According to the CDC,

Some newborns have tested positive for COVID-19 shortly after birth. It is unknown if these newborns got the virus before, during, or after birth.

Breastfeeding and Caring for Newborns | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/pregnancy-breastfeeding.html)

I see where you are coming from but the CDC has to make those educated decisions and I trust them to do that. They say it is better for the unborn child to have the protection than to be born with Covid which is what is happening when pregnant women contract Covid. It is a very tough call but they are erring on the safe side for Mom and baby. The announcement was made very recently and the CDC is getting out the message that they no longer say it is "OK" for pregnant women to get the vaccine; the CDC is encouraging pregnant women to get the vaccine. They deem these vaccines safe and I'm good with that.

[stanley]

I see where you are coming from but the CDC has to make those educated decisions and I trust them to do that. They say it is better for the unborn child to have the protection than to be born with Covid which is what is happening when pregnant women contract Covid. It is a very tough call but they are erring on the safe side for Mom and baby. The announcement was made very recently and the CDC is getting out the message that they no longer say it is "OK" for pregnant women to get the vaccine; the CDC is encouraging pregnant women to get the vaccine. They deem these vaccines safe and I'm good with that.

Trust and believe what you want with no research and proof behind their recommendation. I don't. And they didn't say pregnant "women" they said pregnant "people". Very subliminal.

[John41]

Trust and believe what you want with no research and proof behind their recommendation. I don't. And they didn't say pregnant "women" they said pregnant "people". Very subliminal.

True, if they believe men can get pregnant and there are more than two sexes I wouldn’t put much faith in their medical knowledge.