Covid survivors greater immunity than fully vaccinated to Delta variant

[SkBlogW]

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.
Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762)

Here in the USA, latest data I have seen shows that 150 million adults are fully vaccinated, which of course goes up every day.

What about the number of covid survivors? There are about 36 million confirmed cases, but the CDC estimates the actual number at 4 times that, in May 2021 they put the number at 120 million Americans that have had covid (symptomatics, asymptomatics, never tested etc) Currently the number would be 144 million using CDC formula.

Estimated COVID-19 Burden | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html)

I see some crazy profiling going on here, such as "that creepy pick up driver with the flags for sure is not vaccinated" It's ridiculous and ugly to attempt vaccine profiling, truth is you don't have a clue who has been fully vaccinated and who has immunity via surviving covid.

Maybe the millions of covid survivors with their superior immunity to Delta will start shaming and discriminating against the vaccinated. Sorry, covid survivors only on this cruise, or in this restaurant etc etc. According to the data from Israel, they have better protection than you do.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.
Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762)

Here in the USA, latest data I have seen shows that 150 million adults are fully vaccinated, which of course goes up every day.

What about the number of covid survivors? There are about 36 million confirmed cases, but the CDC estimates the actual number at 4 times that, in May 2021 they put the number at 120 million Americans that have had covid (symptomatics, asymptomatics, never tested etc) Currently the number would be 144 million using CDC formula.

Estimated COVID-19 Burden | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html)

I see some crazy profiling going on here, such as "that creepy pick up driver with the flags for sure is not vaccinated" It's ridiculous and ugly to attempt vaccine profiling, truth is you don't have a clue who has been fully vaccinated and who has immunity via surviving covid.

Maybe the millions of covid survivors with their superior immunity to Delta will start shaming and discriminating against the vaccinated. Sorry, covid survivors only on this cruise, or in this restaurant etc etc. According to the data from Israel, they have better protection than you do.

I don't understand your point, are you saying it is better to just catch the virus and survive? Kind of like people having COVID parties and crossing their fingers?

[coffeebean]

I see some crazy profiling going on here, such as "that creepy pick up driver with the flags for sure is not vaccinated" It's ridiculous and ugly to attempt vaccine profiling, truth is you don't have a clue who has been fully vaccinated and who has immunity via surviving covid.



Thank you for getting my word out again. Seems I've hit some nerves with that one. I would still bet money on that guy not being vaccinated. That post was to refer to extremists and you CANNOT tell me they are in the vaccine camp. Sorry. Don't buy it.

[coffeebean]

I don't understand your point, are you saying it is better to just catch the virus and survive? Kind of like people having COVID parties and crossing their fingers?

That is exactly how I took it. Doesn't make sense to play Russian Roulette. Does it?

[SkBlogW]

I don't understand your point, are you saying it is better to just catch the virus and survive? Kind of like people having COVID parties and crossing their fingers?

Depends. If you are an overweight geezer with diabetes/heart disease or several other comorbidites, definitely get the vaccine. If I was young and healthy, I would definitely get an antibody test to see if I already had covid. If yes why get vaccine when you have better protection against Delta etc.

The main point was to ridicule vaccine profiling and shaming, since there are over 140 million that have natural immunity that appears to be stronger. Boomers are quite self centered and should check their privilege, not everyone is scared ****less by this virus and they are not responsible for your health.

[SkBlogW]

Thank you for getting my word out again. Seems I've hit some nerves with that one. I would still bet money on that guy not being vaccinated. That post was to refer to extremists and you CANNOT tell me they are in the vaccine camp. Sorry. Don't buy it.

LOL Since you profiled this guy as an anti vaxxer, he's probably an anti masker too and probably has already had covid and now has better immunity than you do. :MOJE_whot:

[SkBlogW]

That is exactly how I took it. Doesn't make sense to play Russian Roulette. Does it?

It's only Russian Roulette for older age groups, young and healthy people die from flu, pneumonia etc in much greater numbers than covid causes.

I know it's hard, but maybe you can step out of your shoes and see things from another perspective.

[Bill14564]

Depends. If you are an overweight geezer with diabetes/heart disease or several other comorbidites, definitely get the vaccine. If I was young and healthy, I would definitely get an antibody test to see if I already had covid. If yes why get vaccine when you have better protection against Delta etc.

The main point was to ridicule vaccine profiling and shaming, since there are over 140 million that have natural immunity that appears to be stronger. Boomers are quite self centered and should check their privilege, not everyone is scared ****less by this virus and they are not responsible for your health.

And the 140M number came from where?

Better to be scared ****less and get vaccinated, there is no coming back from “I wish I had.”

There are several idiots on the board selling snake oil and confirmation bias - choose carefully who you take medical advice from.

[SkBlogW]

And the 140M number came from where?

Better to be scared ****less and get vaccinated, there is no coming back from “I wish I had.”

There are several idiots on the board selling snake oil and confirmation bias - choose carefully who you take medical advice from.

See the link from the CDC in the OP? Read it.

[coffeebean]

LOL Since you profiled this guy as an anti vaxxer, he's probably an anti masker too and probably has already had covid and now has better immunity than you do. :MOJE_whot:

Most probably true. LOL.

I will pit my immunity against anyone who has had Covid. My immune system gave me a very robust response with my second Moderna shot. I have the immune system of a youngin'.

[coffeebean]

It's only Russian Roulette for older age groups, young and healthy people die from flu, pneumonia etc in much greater numbers than covid causes.

I know it's hard, but maybe you can step out of your shoes and see things from another perspective.

All I know is it is so disheartening to see young folks on my television pleading for the vaccine as they lie in a hospital bed and cannot breath and are about to be put on a vent. I've seen and read about too many young people dying of this disease, certainly not in the numbers of seniors but still too many young folks are dying. I don't know why anyone, young or old, would take that chance.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Depends. If you are an overweight geezer with diabetes/heart disease or several other comorbidites, definitely get the vaccine. If I was young and healthy, I would definitely get an antibody test to see if I already had covid. If yes why get vaccine when you have better protection against Delta etc.

The main point was to ridicule vaccine profiling and shaming, since there are over 140 million that have natural immunity that appears to be stronger. Boomers are quite self centered and should check their privilege, not everyone is scared ****less by this virus and they are not responsible for your health.

You had me until the very end. Yes, everyone is responsible for their action or inaction in a pandemic - worldwide. I really am growing tired of this "I don't need to do it, I am safe".

Whatever, do what you are going to. I am tired of all this nonsense. Polio is gone, smallpox is gone, maybe COVID will kill us all, or just magically disappear. Have fun arguing everyone. I am out of vaccine discussions.

BTW, I and my wife are fully vaccinated, for 5 months now. Our PCPs recommended and today we were tested for COVID because of recent systems.

A big thank you goes out to all the self-righteous people that are covering their own A$$ and not getting vaccinated.

[stanley]

You had me until the very end. Yes, everyone is responsible for their action or inaction in a pandemic - worldwide. I really am growing tired of this "I don't need to do it, I am safe".

Whatever, do what you are going to. I am tired of all this nonsense. Polio is gone, smallpox is gone, maybe COVID will kill us all, or just magically disappear. Have fun arguing everyone. I am out of vaccine discussions.

BTW, I and my wife are fully vaccinated, for 5 months now. Our PCPs recommended and today we were tested for COVID because of recent systems.

A big thank you goes out to all the self-righteous people that are covering their own A$$ and not getting vaccinated.

Goodbye....and you're welcome

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

If you want to play the Covid Party game, you should definitely go to Sturgis. You have the best chance of actually contracting it there than anywhere else these days.

[stanley]

If you want to play the Covid Party game, you should definitely go to Sturgis. You have the best chance of actually contracting it there than anywhere else these days.

Yeah...just like last year..

Fact check: Sturgis Rally's COVID-19 cases misstated by online post (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/17/fact-check-sturgis-rallys-covid-19-cases-misstated-online-post/3458606001/)

[Art cov]

If you want to play the Covid Party game, you should definitely go to Sturgis. You have the best chance of actually contracting it there than anywhere else these days.
I heard of the outbreak in the Martha’s Vineyard area. The great doctor barely mentioned the people crowded under the birthday tent. It works for everybody!

[stanley]

Most probably true. LOL.

I will pit my immunity against anyone who has had Covid. My immune system gave me a very robust response with my second Moderna shot. I have the immune system of a youngin'.

My doctor told me that about my prostate also

[John41]

///

[coffeebean]

You had me until the very end. Yes, everyone is responsible for their action or inaction in a pandemic - worldwide. I really am growing tired of this "I don't need to do it, I am safe".

Whatever, do what you are going to. I am tired of all this nonsense. Polio is gone, smallpox is gone, maybe COVID will kill us all, or just magically disappear. Have fun arguing everyone. I am out of vaccine discussions.

BTW, I and my wife are fully vaccinated, for 5 months now. Our PCPs recommended and today we were tested for COVID because of recent systems.

A big thank you goes out to all the self-righteous people that are covering their own A$$ and not getting vaccinated.

I whole heartedly agree. Everyone needs to step up and do their part during this pandemic whether it be masking, social distancing and of course, getting vaccinated. This war against the virus must be a group effort and those who are riding on the coat tails of those who have stepped up for the vaccine are not doing their part.

I will miss you and your very grounded POV in these vaccine discussions. Wish you wouldn't go.

[coffeebean]

Yeah...just like last year..

Fact check: Sturgis Rally's COVID-19 cases misstated by online post (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/17/fact-check-sturgis-rallys-covid-19-cases-misstated-online-post/3458606001/)

I wouldn't be so quick to compare the original strain with this Delta variant that is circulating now. There doesn't seem to be a slowing down of Delta yet so there is a good chance this Sturgis ralley will be a really nice super spreader event. Only time will tell. I'm waiting patiently for this Delta variant to peter out just like it did in the UK and India but so far, it hasn't happened here.

[Kelevision]

You had me until the very end. Yes, everyone is responsible for their action or inaction in a pandemic - worldwide. I really am growing tired of this "I don't need to do it, I am safe".

Whatever, do what you are going to. I am tired of all this nonsense. Polio is gone, smallpox is gone, maybe COVID will kill us all, or just magically disappear. Have fun arguing everyone. I am out of vaccine discussions.

BTW, I and my wife are fully vaccinated, for 5 months now. Our PCPs recommended and today we were tested for COVID because of recent systems.

A big thank you goes out to all the self-righteous people that are covering their own A$$ and not getting vaccinated.

Could not have said it better myself! My good friend from CA was super healthy, worked out regularly, died of covid….. he was 46. This was before the vaccine. But I have brothers in their 40’s who also are anti-vaxxers (covid only) and they aren’t the brightest bulbs in the lamp, if you know what I’m saying. But alas, they did finally get the vaccine.

[thevillages2013]

You had me until the very end. Yes, everyone is responsible for their action or inaction in a pandemic - worldwide. I really am growing tired of this "I don't need to do it, I am safe".

Whatever, do what you are going to. I am tired of all this nonsense. Polio is gone, smallpox is gone, maybe COVID will kill us all, or just magically disappear. Have fun arguing everyone. I am out of vaccine discussions.

BTW, I and my wife are fully vaccinated, for 5 months now. Our PCPs recommended and today we were tested for COVID because of recent systems.

A big thank you goes out to all the self-righteous people that are covering their own A$$ and not getting vaccinated.
If you are out of the discussions then take your little message off the bottom of your posts.

[Carlsondm]

This is an apples vs oranges comparison. I saw no conclusions to draw. Interesting report to vet though.

The COVID survivors are just that, survivors. How many died while the survivors were being treated or recovered? The survivors toughed it out and likely did not have serious pre-existing conditions. Those of us who scrutinized the vaccines and choose to be vaccinated do not expect to die from the virus. We can still become infected and positive, but expect to have a milder case and not see a hospital or a ventilator.

Our children are medical professionals and have been over worked during the surges. They saw what dying patients went through and are urging, no screaming at us to get vaccinated or measure antibodies and stay out of hospitals.

The delta variant is 9x more contagious than the original virus and just as deadly. Choose your path.

[Sheltie-Lover]

Another rude self righteous A$$. Grumpy Old Man is one of the reasons I read TOTV everyday before work. It makes me feel a little better that we still have some common sense left.

[Vermilion Villager]

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.
Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762)

Here in the USA, latest data I have seen shows that 150 million adults are fully vaccinated, which of course goes up every day.

What about the number of covid survivors? There are about 36 million confirmed cases, but the CDC estimates the actual number at 4 times that, in May 2021 they put the number at 120 million Americans that have had covid (symptomatics, asymptomatics, never tested etc) Currently the number would be 144 million using CDC formula.

Estimated COVID-19 Burden | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html)

I see some crazy profiling going on here, such as "that creepy pick up driver with the flags for sure is not vaccinated" It's ridiculous and ugly to attempt vaccine profiling, truth is you don't have a clue who has been fully vaccinated and who has immunity via surviving covid.

Maybe the millions of covid survivors with their superior immunity to Delta will start shaming and discriminating against the vaccinated. Sorry, covid survivors only on this cruise, or in this restaurant etc etc. According to the data from Israel, they have better protection than you do.
First....Are you vaccinated or not? Yes or No.
Second...If the answer is no and you are so sure of as you put it your "superior immunity to Delta" why don't you go down to the COVID ward of any hospital and volunteer your services!!! :welcome:

[ctmurray]

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.
Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762)

Here in the USA, latest data I have seen shows that 150 million adults are fully vaccinated, which of course goes up every day.

What about the number of covid survivors? There are about 36 million confirmed cases, but the CDC estimates the actual number at 4 times that, in May 2021 they put the number at 120 million Americans that have had covid (symptomatics, asymptomatics, never tested etc) Currently the number would be 144 million using CDC formula.

Estimated COVID-19 Burden | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html)

I see some crazy profiling going on here, such as "that creepy pick up driver with the flags for sure is not vaccinated" It's ridiculous and ugly to attempt vaccine profiling, truth is you don't have a clue who has been fully vaccinated and who has immunity via surviving covid.

Maybe the millions of covid survivors with their superior immunity to Delta will start shaming and discriminating against the vaccinated. Sorry, covid survivors only on this cruise, or in this restaurant etc etc. According to the data from Israel, they have better protection than you do.


Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021 | MMWR (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_x)

[Vermilion Villager]

I heard of the outbreak in the Martha’s Vineyard area. The great doctor barely mentioned the people crowded under the birthday tent. It works for everybody!

You do know you are desperately trying to compare President Obama's 3 hour outdoor birthday party where 200 people attended who were 100% vaccinated.....to a one week biker rally attended by close to 600,000 who crowd into bars every night? FYI we see what you are doing......:1rotfl:

[Linnberg]

You had me until the very end. Yes, everyone is responsible for their action or inaction in a pandemic - worldwide. I really am growing tired of this "I don't need to do it, I am safe".

Whatever, do what you are going to. I am tired of all this nonsense. Polio is gone, smallpox is gone, maybe COVID will kill us all, or just magically disappear. Have fun arguing everyone. I am out of vaccine discussions.

BTW, I and my wife are fully vaccinated, for 5 months now. Our PCPs recommended and today we were tested for COVID because of recent systems.

A big thank you goes out to all the self-righteous people that are covering their own A$$ and not getting vaccinated.

“ Whatever doesn't kill you, mutates and tries again - get the damn shots”

While I totally agree with what you stated, Nietzsche may not like your change in his original quote. Lol

[allsport]

The foreign study seems to be applicable to that particular country. The CDC here in this country studied the same thing and found that people who had Covid are twice as likely to be reinfected with the variant than those who were vaccinated. The severity of the original infection is what governs how long the immunity lasts and apart from checking your blood frequently for antibiotics that is not measurable. Get the vaccine and protect your family. I know someone on a ventilator today that thought he did not need the vaccine.

[Swoop]

The foreign study seems to be applicable to that particular country. The CDC here in this country studied the same thing and found that people who had Covid are twice as likely to be reinfected with the variant than those who were vaccinated. The severity of the original infection is what governs how long the immunity lasts and apart from checking your blood frequently for antibiotics that is not measurable. Get the vaccine and protect your family. I know someone on a ventilator today that thought he did not need the vaccine.

That’s because the study in the US was pre Delta…
Pre Delta there were almost no breakthrough cases. Now breakthrough cases in the US are very common.

[Andyb]

Google Dr Dan Stock for the documented truth on the virus, vaccine and masks.

[SkBlogW]

You had me until the very end. Yes, everyone is responsible for their action or inaction in a pandemic - worldwide. I really am growing tired of this "I don't need to do it, I am safe".

Whatever, do what you are going to. I am tired of all this nonsense. Polio is gone, smallpox is gone, maybe COVID will kill us all, or just magically disappear. Have fun arguing everyone. I am out of vaccine discussions.

BTW, I and my wife are fully vaccinated, for 5 months now. Our PCPs recommended and today we were tested for COVID because of recent systems.

A big thank you goes out to all the self-righteous people that are covering their own A$$ and not getting vaccinated.

Why should a covid survivor who has greater immunity than you do get the vaccine? I thought we were following the "science"

To make you feel better and safer? I hate to burst your bubble but covid is not going away. It's going to be endemic just like the flu, and new variants will probably require booster shots every year. It will probably become less deadly over time, and maybe in a few hundred years it will become similar to other coronaviruses and cause common colds.

Even if every man woman and child in USA were vaccinated, vaccine resistant variants like Delta will develop in other parts of the world and in this modern world, slip back into America.

[SkBlogW]

That’s because the study in the US was pre Delta…
Pre Delta there were almost no breakthrough cases. Now breakthrough cases in the US are very common.

Correct. Thanks for helping spread current info.

[WVB#1]

Thank you for getting my word out again. Seems I've hit some nerves with that one. I would still bet money on that guy not being vaccinated. That post was to refer to extremists and you CANNOT tell me they are in the vaccine camp. Sorry. Don't buy it.
And you actually seem proud of yourself for this - enough to say it again! Shame on you! How sad!

[FromNY]

Depends. If you are an overweight geezer with diabetes/heart disease or several other comorbidites, definitely get the vaccine. If I was young and healthy, I would definitely get an antibody test to see if I already had covid. If yes why get vaccine when you have better protection against Delta etc.

The main point was to ridicule vaccine profiling and shaming, since there are over 140 million that have natural immunity that appears to be stronger. Boomers are quite self centered and should check their privilege, not everyone is scared ****less by this virus and they are not responsible for your health.
Young unvaccinated are dying and or sick. Without comorbities.
Vaccinated with comorbities are getting sick after being exposed. Say thanks to the unvaccinated.

[Villages Kahuna]

So now we’re supposed to rely on statistics gathered in Israel rather than our respected CDC and virtually all U.S. doctors and hospitals currently dealing with the current out-of-control COVID wave?

What point are you trying to make? I hope you’re not trying to convince people not to get vaccinated.

[ThirdOfFive]

Why should a covid survivor who has greater immunity than you do get the vaccine? I thought we were following the "science"

To make you feel better and safer? I hate to burst your bubble but covid is not going away. It's going to be endemic just like the flu, and new variants will probably require booster shots every year. It will probably become less deadly over time, and maybe in a few hundred years it will become similar to other coronaviruses and cause common colds.

Even if every man woman and child in USA were vaccinated, vaccine resistant variants like Delta will develop in other parts of the world and in this modern world, slip back into America.
Bingo.

I had COVID late last fall. No big deal--a few days of feeling puny but the rest of the time just irritated at sitting around the house. I had the vaccine too; this past May in fact. Not so much because I had this desperate fear of the dread bug but because my family lives in Minnesota and nobody knows from day to day just what new dicta that the moonbats who are running that state might hand down; there was some idle talk (thankfully that was all it was) that MSP might be quarantining incoming passengers who were not vaccinated and I figured a couple of needle sticks was a small price to pay to avoid that. That was the route I chose to take.

That's what important here. I had the right to choose my course of action and I did it according to what I believed to be my best interests. But those interests are not the business of anyone EXCEPT myself. I fully accept that people have the same right to make their choices of action, independent of what anyone else thinks. I do NOT have the right to demand that anyone else takes a course of action based on my fear.

My liberty does not stop where someone else's fear begins.

[Swoop]

Young unvaccinated are dying and or sick. Without comorbities.
Vaccinated with comorbities are getting sick after being exposed. Say thanks to the unvaccinated.
Please provide the data showing what the actual rise in young, unvaccinated people dying is. Actual data, not fear mongering TV or newspaper reports designed to increase viewership…

[Bill14564]

Why should a covid survivor who has greater immunity than you do get the vaccine? I thought we were following the "science"

To make you feel better and safer? I hate to burst your bubble but covid is not going away. It's going to be endemic just like the flu, and new variants will probably require booster shots every year. It will probably become less deadly over time, and maybe in a few hundred years it will become similar to other coronaviruses and cause common colds.

Even if every man woman and child in USA were vaccinated, vaccine resistant variants like Delta will develop in other parts of the world and in this modern world, slip back into America.

Delta is not vaccine resistant. It is not the vaccinated who are hospitalized and dying (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html).

[SkBlogW]

So now we’re supposed to rely on statistics gathered in Israel rather than our respected CDC and virtually all U.S. doctors and hospitals currently dealing with the current out-of-control COVID wave?

What point are you trying to make? I hope you’re not trying to convince people not to get vaccinated.

Israel experienced Delta wave before USA and they are one of the most vaccinated countries on earth, so their data gives us a preview of what will happen here. Their Health Ministry and medical expertise are well respected throughout the globe.

Instead of parroting the panic you see in the media, why not go to "our respected CDC" and look at the actual numbers. As you can see, we are nowhere near the hospitalization rates we saw in January.

90391

COVID-19 Hospitalizations (https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_3.html)

[Bill14564]

Israel experienced Delta wave before USA and they are one of the most vaccinated countries on earth, so their data gives us a preview of what will happen here. Their Health Ministry and medical expertise are well respected throughout the globe.

Instead of parroting the panic you see in the media, why not go to "our respected CDC" and look at the actual numbers. As you can see, we are nowhere near the hospitalization rates we saw in January.

90391

COVID-19 Hospitalizations (https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_3.html)

Not again!

That data contains only 14 states of which do not include Florida, Texas, or Louisiana.

Take a look at the WaPo site or NYT site (or others I can't think of right now) to see what the hospitalization across all the US looks like. Florida has already exceeded its all-time Covid hospitalization peak. If it offends you to look at those sites, take a look at the graphs in this CDC report (https://healthdata.gov/api/views/gqxm-d9w9/files/d5e39ea5-f31c-4641-b376-c3dff4cf70b3?download=true&filename=Community%20Profile%20Report%2020210806.p df) - they compare very well with what the newspapers show.

[jbrown132]

I don't understand your point, are you saying it is better to just catch the virus and survive? Kind of like people having COVID parties and crossing their fingers?
Those numbers are for Israel, not the US. The numbers you quote bear no relationship to those that are no being reported in the US. From what I understand the two shot vaccines is the IS are still 95% effective against the variant and they are developing a booster as we speak.

[SkBlogW]

Delta is not vaccine resistant. It is not the vaccinated who are hospitalized and dying (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html).

Delta COVID-19 variant up to eight times more resistant to vaccine antibodies

Delta COVID-19 variant up to eight times more resistant to vaccine antibodies - BusinessToday (https://www.businesstoday.in/coronavirus/story/delta-covid-19-variant-up-to-eight-times-more-resistant-to-vaccine-antibodies-300568-2021-07-06)

It's true that it is not the vaccinated who are dying in great numbers, but they are catching and spreading the Delta variant more than those with natural immunity from a past covid infection.

Study: Recovered COVID patients don't benefit from vaccine
New US study finds natural infection to COVID provides robust long-term immunity, with vaccination providing no added benefit.

Study: Recovered COVID patients don't benefit from vaccine - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/310963)

[virtue51]

Based on information reported in this country, your information is incorrect. It is unfortunate that there is so much mis-information about the coronavirus.

It is a global health crisis that has killed more than 4 million people and it has left many people with long lasting effects.

[Bill14564]

Delta COVID-19 variant up to eight times more resistant to vaccine antibodies

Delta COVID-19 variant up to eight times more resistant to vaccine antibodies - BusinessToday (https://www.businesstoday.in/coronavirus/story/delta-covid-19-variant-up-to-eight-times-more-resistant-to-vaccine-antibodies-300568-2021-07-06)

It's true that it is not the vaccinated who are dying in great numbers, but they are catching and spreading the Delta variant more than those with natural immunity from a past covid infection.

Study: Recovered COVID patients don't benefit from vaccine
New US study finds natural infection to COVID provides robust long-term immunity, with vaccination providing no added benefit.

Study: Recovered COVID patients don't benefit from vaccine - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/310963)

The results of the laboratory study are not evident in the real-world data. I'm sure a study somewhere will figure out why.

One thing to note: the laboratory study found that "the Delta variant is both more transmissible and better able to evade prior immunity caused due to previous infection." which kind of seems to argue against your second link.

[Jacob85]

I have heard the opposite from epidemiologist. I have also, heard of people getting it twice. And then there is the long haulers results. I guess if you look hard enough you will find someone who backs up your theory

[SkBlogW]

Not again!

That data contains only 14 states of which do not include Florida, Texas, or Louisiana.

Take a look at the WaPo site or NYT site (or others I can't think of right now) to see what the hospitalization across all the US looks like. Florida has already exceeded its all-time Covid hospitalization peak. If it offends you to look at those sites, take a look at the graphs in this CDC report (https://healthdata.gov/api/views/gqxm-d9w9/files/d5e39ea5-f31c-4641-b376-c3dff4cf70b3?download=true&filename=Community%20Profile%20Report%2020210806.p df) - they compare very well with what the newspapers show.

Not again! Someone promoting NYT and WAPO as unbiased news sources.

As of Monday, 11,863 inpatient beds in Florida were being used by COVID-19 patients, about 22 percent of all inpatient beds in the state, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services data show. No other state had as high of a utilization rate.

The federal data also show that about 86 percent of the 6,572 intensive-care unit beds in Florida were occupied. About 38 percent of the filled ICU beds were occupied by patients with COVID-19, the deadly respiratory disease caused by the novel coronavirus.

Florida has the highest rate of hospital beds taken up by COVID-19 patients in nation | Blogs (https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2021/08/04/florida-has-a-highest-rate-of-hospital-beds-taken-up-by-covid-19-patients-in-nation)

So 22% of all beds and 38% of ICU beds are covid patients. Let's panic. :shocked:

[Dgodin]

Get the damn vaccine and quit looking for excuses in pseudoscience and false analysis. It's the patriotic thing to do for your fellow Americans. Either we stop COVID or it will mutate into something worse than the delta variant, which is now killing young people.
And people refusing the vaccine should be ashamed of their cowardice and self centeredness.
If you don't want to get the vaccine stay away from public places.

[SkBlogW]

The results of the laboratory study are not evident in the real-world data. I'm sure a study somewhere will figure out why.

One thing to note: the laboratory study found that "the Delta variant is both more transmissible and better able to evade prior immunity caused due to previous infection." which kind of seems to argue against your second link.

Real world data? Appears you did not read this link in the OP

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762)

[Pessemist]

It makes sense, sense your immune system has been exposed to the entire virus and was robust enough to fend off the infection before it kills you. The vaccine consists of some of the proteins that make up the virus, not the entire virus itself (DoH)! So the immune response is triggered for those specific proteins..and usually that's all you need.

You can still get infected by Covid after the vaccine. But you have about 97% protection against the infection becoming fatal. You can even get a sub clinical infection that you can pass on to the unvaccinated. Unvaccinated people have a MUCH greater chance of dying because their immune system takes longer to 'ramp up' than the virus takes to kill them.

That's why all this BULL**** about peoples 'Right' not to get vaccinated is nonsense. For example, you don't have the 'right' to drive your car 100mph. You don't have the 'Right' to use toxins in your company to maximize your profits. Y Same with vaccine: You don't have the 'Right' to infect those around you with a lethal virus.

For historical perspective on this, I suggest looking up the story of Typhoid Mary and her insistence on working in the food industry despite the many who were infected as a result.

I would dare suggest that Individual rights end when they inflict death and disease on others...robbing them of THEIR rights.

[Two Bills]

So if you have had the virus and survive, as most do, you have antibodies.
If you are vaccinated you have antibodies.
Why all the fuss and argument?
The only people who should have a problem are those without vaccinations, or have not had the virus.
All this B$ about whose antibodies are best is ridiculous.
All antibodies are good!

As for Delta.
It has swept through UK, and the numbers of those hospitalised, or died, is way down from the first wave that hit us hard.
Something is working!:coolsmiley:

[FromNY]

Please provide the data showing what the actual rise in young, unvaccinated people dying is. Actual data, not fear mongering TV or newspaper reports designed to increase viewership…
Hospital personal shared . Plus reports from hospitals.

[Swoop]

Hospital personal shared . Plus reports from hospitals.

Please provide the “reports from hospitals”.
“Hospital personal shared” means nothing.

[glsatterlee]

One dose of Pfizer vaccine may be enough for folks who've had COVID: study
One dose of Pfizer vaccine may be enough for folks who've had COVID: study (https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-08-dose-pfizer-vaccine-folks-whove.html)

[Bella6368]

[QUOTE=S=kBlogW;1986357]Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.
Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762)

Here in the USA, latest data I have seen shows that 150 million adults are fully vaccinated, which of course goes up every day.

What about the number of covid survivors? There are about 36 million confirmed cases, but the CDC estimates the actual number at 4 times that, in May 2021 they put the number at 120 million Americans that have had covid (symptomatics, asymptomatics, never tested etc) Currently the number would be 144 million using CDC formula.

Estimated COVID-19 Burden | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html)

I see some crazy profiling going on here, such as "that creepy pick up driver with the flags for sure is not vaccinated" It's ridiculous and ugly to attempt vaccine profiling, truth is you don't have a clue who has been fully vaccinated and who has immunity via surviving covid.

Maybe the millions of covid survivors with their superior immunity to Delta will start shaming and discriminating against the vaccinated. Sorry, covid survivors only on this cruise, or in this restaurant etc etc. According to the data from Israel, they have better protection than you do.[/QUOTE

Do your research before you judge others for not taking the highly still experimental drug. Trust not in your government or the CDC. Unbelievable!

[glsatterlee]

People who have recovered from COVID-19 retain broad and effective longer-term immunity to the disease, according to a new study.

Findings of the study, which is the most comprehensive of its kind so far, have implications for expanding understanding about human immune memory as well as future vaccine development for coronaviruses.

For the longitudinal study in Cell Reports Medicine, researchers looked at 254 patients with mostly mild to moderate symptoms of SARS-CoV-2 infection over a period of more than eight months (250 days) and found that their immune response to the virus remained durable and strong.

The findings are reassuring, especially given early reports during the pandemic that protective neutralizing antibodies didn’t last in COVID-19 patients, said Rafi Ahmed, director of the Emory University Vaccine Center and a lead author of the paper.

“The study serves as a framework to define and predict long-lived immunity to SARS-CoV-2 after natural infection. We also saw indications in this phase that natural immunity could continue to persist,” Ahmed said.

The research team will continue to evaluate this cohort over the next few years.

Experience the best way to read The Epoch Times online. Try our free app for a limited time.

The researchers found that not only did the immune response increase with disease severity but also with each decade of age regardless of disease severity, suggesting that there are additional unknown factors influencing age-related differences in COVID-19 responses.

MOST READ
COVID-19 Survivors Have Broad, Longer-Term Immunity
Interior Department Confirms 35 Staffers Have Died of COVID-19
In following the patients for months, researchers got a more nuanced view of how the immune system responds to COVID-19 infection. The picture that emerges indicates that the body’s defense shield not only produces an array of neutralizing antibodies but activates certain T and B cells to establish immune memory, offering more sustained defenses against reinfection.

“We saw that antibody responses, especially IgG antibodies, were not only durable in the vast majority of patients but decayed at a slower rate than previously estimated, which suggests that patients are generating longer-lived plasma cells that can neutralize the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.”

Ahmed said investigators were surprised to see that convalescent participants also displayed increased immunity against common human coronaviruses as well as SARS-CoV-1, a close relative of the current coronavirus. The study suggests that patients who survived COVID-19 are likely to also possess protective immunity even against some SARS-CoV-2 variants.

RELATED
Working With the Immune System
Working With the Immune System
“Vaccines that target other parts of the virus rather than just the spike protein may be more helpful in containing infection as SARS-CoV-2 variants overtake the prevailing strains,” Ahmed said. “This could pave the way for us to design vaccines that address multiple coronaviruses.”

The researchers said the study more comprehensively identifies the adaptive immune components leading to recovery, and that it will serve as a benchmark for immune memory induced by SARS-CoV-2vaccines.

“We can build on these results to define the progression to long-lived immunity against the new coronavirus, which can guide rational responses when future outbreaks occur,” Ahmed said.

The National Institutes of Health funded the work, which is a collaboration between Emory University and the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle, Washington.

[KRMACK55]

Depends. If you are an overweight geezer with diabetes/heart disease or several other comorbidites, definitely get the vaccine. If I was young and healthy, I would definitely get an antibody test to see if I already had covid. If yes why get vaccine when you have better protection against Delta etc.

The main point was to ridicule vaccine profiling and shaming, since there are over 140 million that have natural immunity that appears to be stronger. Boomers are quite self centered and should check their privilege, not everyone is scared ****less by this virus and they are not responsible for your health.
That’s a terrible thing to say that boomers are self centered and “check their privilege” perhaps that’s a personal reference. The words say more about character of the author than the benefit of saying it. Why doesn’t the hall monitor of this site send you a slap on the wrist ?

[Bella6368]

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.
Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762)

Here in the USA, latest data I have seen shows that 150 million adults are fully vaccinated, which of course goes up every day.

What about the number of covid survivors? There are about 36 million confirmed cases, but the CDC estimates the actual number at 4 times that, in May 2021 they put the number at 120 million Americans that have had covid (symptomatics, asymptomatics, never tested etc) Currently the number would be 144 million using CDC formula.

Estimated COVID-19 Burden | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html)

I see some crazy profiling going on here, such as "that creepy pick up driver with the flags for sure is not vaccinated" It's ridiculous and ugly to attempt vaccine profiling, truth is you don't have a clue who has been fully vaccinated and who has immunity via surviving covid.

Maybe the millions of covid survivors with their superior immunity to Delta will start shaming and discriminating against the vaccinated. Sorry, covid survivors only on this cruise, or in this restaurant etc etc. According to the data from Israel, they have better protection than you do.


Florida Health Department Claims CDC Released Incorrect COVID Numbers
Go To the Palmieri Report for the article.

[SkBlogW]

So if you have had the virus and survive, as most do, you have antibodies.
If you are vaccinated you have antibodies.
Why all the fuss and argument?
The only people who should have a problem are those without vaccinations, or have not had the virus.
All this B$ about whose antibodies are best is ridiculous.
All antibodies are good!

As for Delta.
It has swept through UK, and the numbers of those hospitalised, or died, is way down from the first wave that hit us hard.
Something is working!:coolsmiley:

Correct, the reason I posted this info is because I see so many posts saying anyone who is not vaccinated is evil and putting everyone else at risk. They never seem to realize that over 100 million americans have natural antibodies from previous exposure and these people should be able to do anything vaccinated people can do and in fact their immunity is slightly stronger currently.

[MDLNB]

The OP provided some information and an opinion and the same old gloom and doomers crucified him/her.

Get your shot or don't get your shot. Actually it doesn't matter to me. I believe we have too many leaches of resources as it is and thinning the herd might be an improvement.

A few voices on here attempt to use their prejudice and bias toward those that they are SURE did not get vaccinated. American freedom is dependent on whether your actions meet their approval when reality is that they have self-centered self-interest as motivation.
I had visitors from up North. They have all had Covid, all four of them. After arriving they told me not to worry as they had just been tested before their traveled down here. They had plenty of antibody protection. None of them have had the shots as they were too young when the shots were available and then had Covid and their doctor told them NOT to get the shots at that time. I really do not care whether you believe me or not - just stating.
I find it amusing that you all are STILL harping on, demanding that others get the shots. Your fear and lack of confidence in the vaccine is amazing. Your lack of confidence in science is also funny. You don't even hide the fact that you are so scared and then quote from media that are proven fear mongers. You all actually blame politics for others not conforming to YOUR standards and wishes. If someone has had covid and does not wish to get vaccinated right now or was advised against it bey their doctor you act like they have no right to put you in harms way. Panic much?
My opinion: If you have medical issues consider getting the vaccination. Do not force this vaccination on children unless they have medical issues. We still don't know how it will effect them. No one can know. If we get the vaccination and it turns out that there is a surprise later it won't matter because we are old and have little time left anyway. If children get the shots and it turns out later they may have to endure something serious for decades or even shorten their lives. I don't think that will happen but why worry when children and healthy folks manage the virus easily.
For you that blame others for your insecurity, restock your saferooms and stay there until given the all clear. I doubt there will ever be a safe time in your lives but maybe you will "grow some hair" and learn to survive hardships like your parents likely had to.

[lkagele]

Google Dr Dan Stock for the documented truth on the virus, vaccine and masks.

Yup. This guy knows what's going on and has no political agenda. The entire world should be listening to him.

[lkagele]

Get the damn vaccine and quit looking for excuses in pseudoscience and false analysis. It's the patriotic thing to do for your fellow Americans. Either we stop COVID or it will mutate into something worse than the delta variant, which is now killing young people.
And people refusing the vaccine should be ashamed of their cowardice and self centeredness.
If you don't want to get the vaccine stay away from public places.

Sorry, but you're just not getting it. Just like we can't stop the flu or the common cold, we can't stop this virus.

[jump4]

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.
Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762)

Here in the USA, latest data I have seen shows that 150 million adults are fully vaccinated, which of course goes up every day.

What about the number of covid survivors? There are about 36 million confirmed cases, but the CDC estimates the actual number at 4 times that, in May 2021 they put the number at 120 million Americans that have had covid (symptomatics, asymptomatics, never tested etc) Currently the number would be 144 million using CDC formula.

Estimated COVID-19 Burden | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html)

I see some crazy profiling going on here, such as "that creepy pick up driver with the flags for sure is not vaccinated" It's ridiculous and ugly to attempt vaccine profiling, truth is you don't have a clue who has been fully vaccinated and who has immunity via surviving covid.

Maybe the millions of covid survivors with their superior immunity to Delta will start shaming and discriminating against the vaccinated. Sorry, covid survivors only on this cruise, or in this restaurant etc etc. According to the data from Israel, they have better protection than you do.
Certainly interesting that you don't mention the Coronavirus patients who did not recover.

[stevemac]

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.
Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762)

Here in the USA, latest data I have seen shows that 150 million adults are fully vaccinated, which of course goes up every day.

What about the number of covid survivors? There are about 36 million confirmed cases, but the CDC estimates the actual number at 4 times that, in May 2021 they put the number at 120 million Americans that have had covid (symptomatics, asymptomatics, never tested etc) Currently the number would be 144 million using CDC formula.

Estimated COVID-19 Burden | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html)

I see some crazy profiling going on here, such as "that creepy pick up driver with the flags for sure is not vaccinated" It's ridiculous and ugly to attempt vaccine profiling, truth is you don't have a clue who has been fully vaccinated and who has immunity via surviving covid.

Maybe the millions of covid survivors with their superior immunity to Delta will start shaming and discriminating against the vaccinated. Sorry, covid survivors only on this cruise, or in this restaurant etc etc. According to the data from Israel, they have better protection than you do.


So I should get covid and hope I don’t join the 600,000 who died.

[coffeebean]

Could not have said it better myself! My good friend from CA was super healthy, worked out regularly, died of covid….. he was 46. This was before the vaccine. But I have brothers in their 40’s who also are anti-vaxxers (covid only) and they aren’t the brightest bulbs in the lamp, if you know what I’m saying. But alas, they did finally get the vaccine.

Sorry about your good friend.

Those bulbs just shined brighter. :)

[coffeebean]

You do know you are desperately trying to compare President Obama's 3 hour outdoor birthday party where 200 people attended who were 100% vaccinated.....to a one week biker rally attended by close to 600,000 who crowd into bars every night? FYI we see what you are doing......:1rotfl:

The party was outdoors? Everyone was 100% vaccinated? So........what is the problem???
Good for them for doing the celebration as safely as possible.

[coffeebean]

That’s because the study in the US was pre Delta…
Pre Delta there were almost no breakthrough cases. Now breakthrough cases in the US are very common.

Yes, breakthrough cases are more common BUT....deaths are very few and far between. I'm more concerned at this point about not having severe symptoms, hospitalization and death. I can handle a few sniffles.

Has anyone heard, read or saw on their television if being vaccinated will prevent long haul symptoms after contracting Covid? THAT is the one thing I'm still a bit concerned about. I don't believe I will die of the virus but do NOT want to deal with long haul symptoms. I do know that it has been documented that people who do suffer from long haul symptoms HAVE had relief of long haul symptoms after they were vaccinated with mRNA vaccines. So, there is another benefit of the mRNA vaccines.

[coffeebean]

Google Dr Dan Stock for the documented truth on the virus, vaccine and masks.

I watched a video of this doctor who claims the virus is small enough to go through every mask. I stopped right there. He has no credibility at all by making that claim. Doesn't he know that theses minuscule virus particles DO NOT TRAVEL BY THEMSELVES. The virus particles are encompassed in droplets and the much smaller aerosols which will be MOSTLY blocked by those disposable and cloths masks that folks wear as SOURCE CONTROL. This guy is a boob.

[coffeebean]

Why should a covid survivor who has greater immunity than you do get the vaccine? I thought we were following the "science"

To make you feel better and safer? I hate to burst your bubble but covid is not going away. It's going to be endemic just like the flu, and new variants will probably require booster shots every year. It will probably become less deadly over time, and maybe in a few hundred years it will become similar to other coronaviruses and cause common colds.

Even if every man woman and child in USA were vaccinated, vaccine resistant variants like Delta will develop in other parts of the world and in this modern world, slip back into America.

Polio did not become endemic nor did Small Pox. I just heard today on my MSM television news source that Covid would be easier to eradicate than Polio. Yes, that is exactly what was said. They went on to say the vaccines are the key element to eradicate Covid. So, there is that.

[coffeebean]

And you actually seem proud of yourself for this - enough to say it again! Shame on you! How sad!

Yes, I am proud. Thank you very much.

[coffeebean]

Talk about a message that is Gobbledygook! Did you consult Scott Atlas for the background information?

You must have a lot of time on your hands. Next time put out information that is relevant and has a legitimate purpose.

I can't even say, "Nice try".

Who did you address this reply to? You didn't QUOTE the poster.

[aallbrand]

The info on the internet is almost all fake news. Israeli Health Ministry stories are made up stories for suckers . Please everyone do not get your news on the internet.

Ask your Doctor or use reputable sites like The Mayo Clinic , Cleveland Clinic or the CDC

[coffeebean]

Get the damn vaccine and quit looking for excuses in pseudoscience and false analysis. It's the patriotic thing to do for your fellow Americans. Either we stop COVID or it will mutate into something worse than the delta variant, which is now killing young people.
And people refusing the vaccine should be ashamed of their cowardice and self centeredness.
If you don't want to get the vaccine stay away from public places.

I concur.

[coffeebean]

Correct, the reason I posted this info is because I see so many posts saying anyone who is not vaccinated is evil and putting everyone else at risk. They never seem to realize that over 100 million americans have natural antibodies from previous exposure and these people should be able to do anything vaccinated people can do and in fact their immunity is slightly stronger currently.

But what about all those folks who have escaped the dreaded virus so far and have not been vaccinated? They remain prime hosts of this virus to mutate and create more variants. THOSE are the people who should be getting themselves vaccinated. We need to act quickly on this. Why wait?

[GeriS]

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.
Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762)

Here in the USA, latest data I have seen shows that 150 million adults are fully vaccinated, which of course goes up every day.

What about the number of covid survivors? There are about 36 million confirmed cases, but the CDC estimates the actual number at 4 times that, in May 2021 they put the number at 120 million Americans that have had covid (symptomatics, asymptomatics, never tested etc) Currently the number would be 144 million using CDC formula.

Estimated COVID-19 Burden | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html)

I see some crazy profiling going on here, such as "that creepy pick up driver with the flags for sure is not vaccinated" It's ridiculous and ugly to attempt vaccine profiling, truth is you don't have a clue who has been fully vaccinated and who has immunity via surviving covid.

Maybe the millions of covid survivors with their superior immunity to Delta will start shaming and discriminating against the vaccinated. Sorry, covid survivors only on this cruise, or in this restaurant etc etc. According to the data from Israel, they have better protection than you do.
Then why are most patients in hospitals the ones who have been vaxxed? You are not getting the straight scoop for the msm. I hope there is something to help those who have been vaxxed and the spike protein does not harm you the way so many people have been harmed already. The number of those who died is alarming, but they won't stop. That's why they are already saying you need boosters every 6 months.

[coffeebean]

Then why are most patients in hospitals the ones who have been vaxxed? You are not getting the straight scoop for the msm. I hope there is something to help those who have been vaxxed and the spike protein does not harm you the way so many people have been harmed already. The number of those who died is alarming, but they won't stop. That's why they are already saying you need boosters every 6 months.
Where did you hear that most of the patients in the hospitals are vaxxed? I'm hearing just the opposite. The CDC is saying this is a pandemic of the UN-vaxxed. Vaxxed people are not the ones dying from this virus at this point in time.

[Lindsyburnsy]

So, I guess if you get covid and die, you are better off than getting a vaccine? Okay, got it.

[flsteve]

It makes sense, sense your immune system has been exposed to the entire virus and was robust enough to fend off the infection before it kills you. The vaccine consists of some of the proteins that make up the virus, not the entire virus itself (DoH)! So the immune response is triggered for those specific proteins..and usually that's all you need.

You can still get infected by Covid after the vaccine. But you have about 97% protection against the infection becoming fatal. You can even get a sub clinical infection that you can pass on to the unvaccinated. Unvaccinated people have a MUCH greater chance of dying because their immune system takes longer to 'ramp up' than the virus takes to kill them.

That's why all this BULL**** about peoples 'Right' not to get vaccinated is nonsense. For example, you don't have the 'right' to drive your car 100mph. You don't have the 'Right' to use toxins in your company to maximize your profits. Y Same with vaccine: You don't have the 'Right' to infect those around you with a lethal virus.

For historical perspective on this, I suggest looking up the story of Typhoid Mary and her insistence on working in the food industry despite the many who were infected as a result.

I would dare suggest that Individual rights end when they inflict death and disease on others...robbing them of THEIR rights.

Wait.... I thought that vaccinated people can STILL spread the virus? If so, it makes sense to me that both vaccinated AND un-vaccinated people can "infect those around you with a lethal virus". Right? However, only THE VACCINATED people can be criticized for having the "right" to "infect those around you with a lethal virus", since vaccinated people can still get it again, yet likely not in a lethal manner. Only un-vaccinated people can "infect those around you with a lethal virus."

Therefore, the Typhoid Mary comparison point is completely moot.

Critical thinking is a bitch! :)

[Dana Swain]

Love your point of view…l had Covid with mild symptoms and still have natural antibodies. I don’t want a vaccine that I don’t trust! I hate being ostracized because I won’t get vaccinated…

[MDLNB]

For the past year plus, I have been shopping and acting like everything is normal. I even tried to be around folks with the aim at becoming infected so that I could get it over with. Didn't work I didn't catch it. I am going to continue to conduct my life as usual and right now have no intention of getting the "Covid booster" shot. Don't bother telling me to stay away or stay home because I have no intention of doing so. If you have your shots but fear me infecting you then it is you that should protect yourself from me by staying home. If you don't have confidence in science or the vaccination then that is your problem. In case you want to stay away from me in fear I will be the one wearing a Veteran ball cap and have an American flag on my vehicles. I also support the police as you will be able to tell when you see my vehicles. As far as I am concerned it is NOT being patriotic by getting the shots. It is just your choice probably brought on by fear and panic or some folks that actually reasoned out the benefits versus the negatives of getting the shots. I am not against the vaccination. I am against unreasonable fear mongering. Call me names and I will laugh at you and call you a lemming. I make my own decisions and do not let folks that I do not respect or trust tell me what is right for the country.
Stay safe, stay home. I'll be out there so beware. :eek:

[NoMoSno]

The party was outdoors? Everyone was 100% vaccinated? So........what is the problem???
Good for them for doing the celebration as safely as possible.
The party was in an enclosed tent. No one wore masks.
CDC reccomends that vaccinated wear masks in enclosed areas.

[lkagele]

I watched a video of this doctor who claims the virus is small enough to go through every mask. I stopped right there. He has no credibility at all by making that claim. Doesn't he know that theses minuscule virus particles DO NOT TRAVEL BY THEMSELVES. The virus particles are encompassed in droplets and the much smaller aerosols which will be MOSTLY blocked by those disposable and cloths masks that folks wear as SOURCE CONTROL. This guy is a boob.

I really don't think that's correct. At first the thought was these were droplets that traveled no more than 6'. Thus the social distancing recommendations.

Later, however, studies showed aerosol particles stayed in the air for much longer periods of time and distance and were also responsible for transmission of the disease.

There's also evidence the droplets and aerosols can enter the body through eye cavities. I just don't see masks as being effective enough to warrant anything other than attempts to control the populace.

[SkBlogW]

But what about all those folks who have escaped the dreaded virus so far and have not been vaccinated? They remain prime hosts of this virus to mutate and create more variants. THOSE are the people who should be getting themselves vaccinated. We need to act quickly on this. Why wait?

The only way to be sure is to nuke it from orbit. :)

The only way to be sure one has antibodies is by having an antibody test, whether you are fully vaccinated or a covid survivor. Millions and millions of people have had covid and don't even know it. Vaccine passports are ridiculous, they can easily be forged and if verified vaccinated individual has been recently exposed to Delta and it breaks through the vaccine and they are currently asymptomatic, guess what happens when he shares the buffet with you? Chances of this are small but not zero.

[SkBlogW]

I watched a video of this doctor who claims the virus is small enough to go through every mask. I stopped right there. He has no credibility at all by making that claim. Doesn't he know that theses minuscule virus particles DO NOT TRAVEL BY THEMSELVES. The virus particles are encompassed in droplets and the much smaller aerosols which will be MOSTLY blocked by those disposable and cloths masks that folks wear as SOURCE CONTROL. This guy is a boob.

I'm sorry but you are completely wrong. 85% of covid virus emissions from an infected individual are tiny aerosols, only 15% are encased in globules.. They are 5000 times smaller than the holes in a cloth mask. You can easily breath these all the way down to your lungs where they begin to work their magic.

[OETTING]

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.
Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762)

Here in the USA, latest data I have seen shows that 150 million adults are fully vaccinated, which of course goes up every day.

What about the number of covid survivors? There are about 36 million confirmed cases, but the CDC estimates the actual number at 4 times that, in May 2021 they put the number at 120 million Americans that have had covid (symptomatics, asymptomatics, never tested etc) Currently the number would be 144 million using CDC formula.

Estimated COVID-19 Burden | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html)

I see some crazy profiling going on here, such as "that creepy pick up driver with the flags for sure is not vaccinated" It's ridiculous and ugly to attempt vaccine profiling, truth is you don't have a clue who has been fully vaccinated and who has immunity via surviving covid.

Maybe the millions of covid survivors with their superior immunity to Delta will start shaming and discriminating against the vaccinated. Sorry, covid survivors only on this cruise, or in this restaurant etc etc. According to the data from Israel, they have better protection than you do.
Although antibodies from natural infection may provide some protection against the virus, evidence shows nothing protects against COVID-19 better than vaccines.
People who have recovered from COVID-19 should get vaccinated to reduce their risk of reinfection, which will prevent transmission and suppress the opportunity for more variants – like the highly contagious delta – to emerge.
“Natural infection will cause your immune system to make many types of antibodies and immune response to all parts of the virus, but only a small fraction of that response is actually protective,” said Nicole Iovine, chief hospital epidemiologist at University of Florida Health in Gainesville. “When you get the vaccine, the entire response is targeted to the virus's spike protein.”

[gdennis317]

Israel study mentioned was a small sample group. Recent studies here in the US say Opposite is true. Kentucky case study as an example.

Key point in all of this is that those in the Hospital here in the US are predominantly the Unvaccinated, and those who die are overwhelmingly the unvaccinated.

For me, since I have some mild underlying issues, I will play the odds: been vaccinated, only wear my mask when in crowds or larger groups, and try to maintain some distancing indoors.

[ThirdOfFive]

Love your point of view…l had Covid with mild symptoms and still have natural antibodies. I don’t want a vaccine that I don’t trust! I hate being ostracized because I won’t get vaccinated…
I doubt that ostracism is happening to anyone. there is a wide and growing disconnect between what one reads in media, and the reality of the actual world. It would seem that there are far more people living their lives fully and in the open, than there are those huddling behind doors, masks and potions.

[Robin Farris]

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.
Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762)

Here in the USA, latest data I have seen shows that 150 million adults are fully vaccinated, which of course goes up every day.

What about the number of covid survivors? There are about 36 million confirmed cases, but the CDC estimates the actual number at 4 times that, in May 2021 they put the number at 120 million Americans that have had covid (symptomatics, asymptomatics, never tested etc) Currently the number would be 144 million using CDC formula.

Estimated COVID-19 Burden | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html)

I see some crazy profiling going on here, such as "that creepy pick up driver with the flags for sure is not vaccinated" It's ridiculous and ugly to attempt vaccine profiling, truth is you don't have a clue who has been fully vaccinated and who has immunity via surviving covid.

Maybe the millions of covid survivors with their superior immunity to Delta will start shaming and discriminating against the vaccinated. Sorry, covid survivors only on this cruise, or in this restaurant etc etc. According to the data from Israel, they have better protection than you do.
As a COVID survivor I really want to say thank you! I clean houses for a living and I do a dang good job at it. As of lately some of my clients have started trying to push the shot on me and trying to make ME feel bad. I have always been booked but lately I have started letting people go. I have survived it and my antibodies in my own body knows what to do to protect it now period. I feel to each their own but don’t try to make me feel bad. I contracted it just before Christmas and trust me I am not in the best shape. A smoker of 30+ years, bad lungs…but I SURVIVED it. And I have had no problems since. I know that was not the case with all and for that I am sorry. I feel lucky to still be here today. But this shaming in either direction needs to stop. If something was to happen and maybe someone couldn’t get or tolerate the vaccine and became sick the next best thing might be one of us survivors donating our antibodies. Just let that sink in for a moment because guess what I don’t know you and you don’t know me but if asked I wouldn’t hesitate to help you however I could.

[SkBlogW]

As a COVID survivor I really want to say thank you! I clean houses for a living and I do a dang good job at it. As of lately some of my clients have started trying to push the shot on me and trying to make ME feel bad. I have always been booked but lately I have started letting people go. I have survived it and my antibodies in my own body knows what to do to protect it now period. I feel to each their own but don’t try to make me feel bad. I contracted it just before Christmas and trust me I am not in the best shape. A smoker of 30+ years, bad lungs…but I SURVIVED it. And I have had no problems since. I know that was not the case with all and for that I am sorry. I feel lucky to still be here today. But this shaming in either direction needs to stop. If something was to happen and maybe someone couldn’t get or tolerate the vaccine and became sick the next best thing might be one of us survivors donating our antibodies. Just let that sink in for a moment because guess what I don’t know you and you don’t know me but if asked I wouldn’t hesitate to help you however I could.

Ask your Doctor to give you an antibody test, when it shows you have antibodies have Doctor write you a letter saying you are just as protected as the vaccinated. If he won't do this, get a smarter Doctor.

[Bill14564]

Ask your Doctor to give you an antibody test, when it shows you have antibodies have Doctor write you a letter saying you are just as protected as the vaccinated. If he won't do this, get a smarter Doctor.

And be sure to mention you received this advice from someone onToTV, that should carry some weight.

[SkBlogW]

Israel study mentioned was a small sample group. Recent studies here in the US say Opposite is true. Kentucky case study as an example.

Key point in all of this is that those in the Hospital here in the US are predominantly the Unvaccinated, and those who die are overwhelmingly the unvaccinated.



7000 delta cases is a small sample group? 3000 of them were fully vaccinated. Makes you wonder why the CDC has stopped reporting breakthrough cases and now only reports breakthrough hospitalizations and deaths.

Post your studies that say the opposite.

[SkBlogW]

And be sure to mention you received this advice from someone onToTV, that should carry some weight.

Anyone can ask for an antibody test, you are confused if you think that is medical advice.

[SkBlogW]

Although antibodies from natural infection may provide some protection against the virus, evidence shows nothing protects against COVID-19 better than vaccines.
People who have recovered from COVID-19 should get vaccinated to reduce their risk of reinfection, which will prevent transmission and suppress the opportunity for more variants – like the highly contagious delta – to emerge.
“Natural infection will cause your immune system to make many types of antibodies and immune response to all parts of the virus, but only a small fraction of that response is actually protective,” said Nicole Iovine, chief hospital epidemiologist at University of Florida Health in Gainesville. “When you get the vaccine, the entire response is targeted to the virus's spike protein.”

Hmmm. I think I will listen to the Cleveland Clinic on this one.

No point vaccinating those who’ve had COVID-19: Cleveland Clinic study suggests

No point vaccinating those who’ve had COVID-19: Cleveland Clinic study suggests (https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210608/No-point-vaccinating-those-whoe28099ve-had-COVID-19-Findings-of-Cleveland-Clinic-study.aspx)

[coffeebean]

The party was in an enclosed tent. No one wore masks.
CDC reccomends that vaccinated wear masks in enclosed areas.

I just looked at photos of the tent with all the sides open to allow fresh air. That, to me, is not considered an enclosed area, especially with fresh air flowing in.

[coffeebean]

I really don't think that's correct. At first the thought was these were droplets that traveled no more than 6'. Thus the social distancing recommendations.

Later, however, studies showed aerosol particles stayed in the air for much longer periods of time and distance and were also responsible for transmission of the disease.

There's also evidence the droplets and aerosols can enter the body through eye cavities. I just don't see masks as being effective enough to warrant anything other than attempts to control the populace.

The areosol particles stayed in the air when they were introduced by people not wearing masks. THAT is why universal masking is advocated world wide. Masking and social distancing are still a mitigation behind the life saving vaccines we have now.

[coffeebean]

I'm sorry but you are completely wrong. 85% of covid virus emissions from an infected individual are tiny aerosols, only 15% are encased in globules.. They are 5000 times smaller than the holes in a cloth mask. You can easily breath these all the way down to your lungs where they begin to work their magic.


That is not my understanding of aerosol containment. As I've said, I've seen it with my own two eyes on video with the infra red cameras. It is AMAZING how the aerosols are contained in the masks.

[coffeebean]

I'm sorry but you are completely wrong. 85% of covid virus emissions from an infected individual are tiny aerosols, only 15% are encased in globules.. They are 5000 times smaller than the holes in a cloth mask. You can easily breath these all the way down to your lungs where they begin to work their magic.

I found a video using a high speed camera. After viewing this video, there is no way you can tell me that masks do not contain aerosols. The difference between no mask and the three examples of masking is HUGE!

High speed camera captures how different types of face masks work - YouTube (https://youtu.be/DNeYfUTA11s)

[coffeebean]

Wait.... I thought that vaccinated people can STILL spread the virus? If so, it makes sense to me that both vaccinated AND un-vaccinated people can "infect those around you with a lethal virus". Right? However, only THE VACCINATED people can be criticized for having the "right" to "infect those around you with a lethal virus", since vaccinated people can still get it again, yet likely not in a lethal manner. Only un-vaccinated people can "infect those around you with a lethal virus."

Therefore, the Typhoid Mary comparison point is completely moot.

Critical thinking is a bitch! :)
Yes, you are correct. Vaccinated people can still spread the virus. BUT......vaccinated people with breakthrough infections are so few in numbers, there is very little chance a vaccinated person will spread the virus to begin with. Then, if a vaccinated person does get infected, the amount of time the vaccinated person is contagious is so much less than someone who is un-vaccinated. Bottom line is vaccinated people pose so little threat of transmitting this virus vs the huge threat of transmission that un-vaccinated people pose to others.

I get it. It makes those folks who have refused the vaccine feel good about themselves to be able to say that vaccinated people can infect others too. I do get it. LOL.

[coffeebean]

Although antibodies from natural infection may provide some protection against the virus, evidence shows nothing protects against COVID-19 better than vaccines.
People who have recovered from COVID-19 should get vaccinated to reduce their risk of reinfection, which will prevent transmission and suppress the opportunity for more variants – like the highly contagious delta – to emerge.
“Natural infection will cause your immune system to make many types of antibodies and immune response to all parts of the virus, but only a small fraction of that response is actually protective,” said Nicole Iovine, chief hospital epidemiologist at University of Florida Health in Gainesville. “When you get the vaccine, the entire response is targeted to the virus's spike protein.”

This is the reason why cruise ships do not accept prior natural infection as a means for an individual to sail without the protocols of un-vaccinated people. I know that makes many people who have recovered from Covid very upset but that is just the way it is.

[coffeebean]

Ask your Doctor to give you an antibody test, when it shows you have antibodies have Doctor write you a letter saying you are just as protected as the vaccinated. If he won't do this, get a smarter Doctor.

Cruise lines do not accept the letter to allow a passenger to sail without the un-vaxxed protocols. That is just one example. Cruise ships have vaccinated ONLY areas on board so passengers do not have to mask up. That is just one of those pesky protocols that limits the availability on cruise ships for un-vaxxed passengers.

[SkBlogW]

I found a video using a high speed camera. After viewing this video, there is no way you can tell me that masks do not contain aerosols. The difference between no mask and the three examples of masking is HUGE!

High speed camera captures how different types of face masks work - YouTube (https://youtu.be/DNeYfUTA11s)

LOL Again with the Youtube videos. You do realize that aerosol virus particles are microscopic and can not be seen with a high speed camera? What you are seeing is water globules and vapor.

For the love of God, please read some actual science and forget about what you might learn on Youtube or Facebook.

To better understand how airborne SARS-CoV-2 transmission occurs, we sought to determine viral loads within coarse (>5μm) and fine (≤5μm) respiratory aerosols produced when breathing, talking, and singing.

Overall, fine aerosols constituted 85% of the viral load detected in our study

This is a study using actual covid infected patients and a very precise instrument called a G-II exhaled breath collector which can collect and measure particles down to 1um in size. 1um is 1 millionth of a meter or 1/25,400th of an inch. You need an electron microscope to see them, not a high speed camera

Viral Load of SARS-CoV-2 in Respiratory Aerosols Emitted by COVID-19 Patients while Breathing, Talking, and Singing - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34358292/)

[coffeebean]

LOL Again with the Youtube videos. You do realize that aerosol virus particles are microscopic and can not be seen with a high speed camera? What you are seeing is water globules and vapor.

For the love of God, please read some actual science and forget about what you might learn on Youtube or Facebook.

To better understand how airborne SARS-CoV-2 transmission occurs, we sought to determine viral loads within coarse (>5μm) and fine (≤5μm) respiratory aerosols produced when breathing, talking, and singing.

Overall, fine aerosols constituted 85% of the viral load detected in our study

This is a study using actual covid infected patients and a very precise instrument called a G-II exhaled breath collector which can collect and measure particles down to 1um in size. 1um is 1 millionth of a meter or 1/25,400th of an inch. You need an electron microscope to see them, not a high speed camera

Viral Load of SARS-CoV-2 in Respiratory Aerosols Emitted by COVID-19 Patients while Breathing, Talking, and Singing - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34358292/)

Isn't that respiratory aerosols I see when I "see my breath" in a cold climate such as when I lived up north? Aren't those respiratory aerosols that can be seen with the naked eye? Contained in that visible vapor of aerosols can be millions of those Covid virus particles of an infected person. No?

[Robin Farris]

Ask your Doctor to give you an antibody test, when it shows you have antibodies have Doctor write you a letter saying you are just as protected as the vaccinated. If he won't do this, get a smarter Doctor.
I have been retesting for antibodies every 3 months so far I still test positive for antibodies. I keep a copy of the lab report with me to show if asked. But some people still think I should get a shot. To be perfectly honest I know 3 different people who got the shot and passed shortly after. And one who spent some time in the ICU due to a bad reaction. Now THAT scares me. I have also read up about the number of deaths after getting the shot and yes on the CDC website. And that scares me so…I’m going to keep my antibodies checked and let my body do what Science intended. Again thank you.

[stanley]

Isn't that respiratory aerosols I see when I "see my breath" in a cold climate such as when I lived up north? Aren't those respiratory aerosols that can be seen with the naked eye? Contained in that visible vapor of aerosols can be millions of those Covid virus particles of an infected person. No?

Don't pee in a porta potty up north in the cold climate either...pee steam kills ya know

[coffeebean]

I have been retesting for antibodies every 3 months so far I still test positive for antibodies. I keep a copy of the lab report with me to show if asked. But some people still think I should get a shot. To be perfectly honest I know 3 different people who got the shot and passed shortly after. And one who spent some time in the ICU due to a bad reaction. Now THAT scares me. I have also read up about the number of deaths after getting the shot and yes on the CDC website. And that scares me so…I’m going to keep my antibodies checked and let my body do what Science intended. Again thank you.

Was it the vaccine that was directly responsible for those three people's deaths? Which vaccines did they receive?

[coffeebean]

Don't pee in a porta potty up north in the cold climate either...pee steam kills ya know

Per Google.......

"At dew point, air can no longer hold water vapor; when air is cooled beyond dew point water vapor turns to liquid form, the physical process known as condensation. It is this liquid form of your breath – minuscule droplets of water – that creates the fleeting, misty cloud we see when breathing in cold weather."

So....that is my breath that I see in a cold climate; all those minuscule aerosols. Hmmm. Thought so.

Also.........The warmth of the urine creates this same phenom in cold weather. Very interesting.

[Swoop]

Yes, you are correct. Vaccinated people can still spread the virus. BUT......vaccinated people with breakthrough infections are so few in numbers, there is very little chance a vaccinated person will spread the virus to begin with. Then, if a vaccinated person does get infected, the amount of time the vaccinated person is contagious is so much less than someone who is un-vaccinated. Bottom line is vaccinated people pose so little threat of transmitting this virus vs the huge threat of transmission that un-vaccinated people pose to others.

I get it. It makes those folks who have refused the vaccine feel good about themselves to be able to say that vaccinated people can infect others too. I do get it. LOL.

The number of breakthrough cases are increasing rapidly with the Delta variant. Those with breakthrough cases have the same viral loads as those who are unvaccinated. So previously vaccinated individuals can spread the virus as readily as those who were not vaccinated. The CDC conveniently stopped counting breakthrough cases, but other countries have continued to count. And those case numbers are exponentially higher than the CDC had been reporting months ago.

[Lindsyburnsy]

Also the particulates don’t flow smoothly; but rather the turbulent airflow causes particles to get caught in the mask. Also if this dude is correct, then what’s his answer as to why surgeons wear them during surgery?.
hiIwatched a video of this doctor who claims the virus is small enough to go through every mask. I stopped right there. He has no credibility at all by making that claim. Doesn't he know that theses minuscule virus particles DO NOT TRAVEL BY THEMSELVES. The virus particles are encompassed in droplets and the much smaller aerosols which will be MOSTLY blocked by those disposable and cloths masks that folks wear as SOURCE CONTROL. This guy is a boob.

[Topspinmo]

If you want to play the Covid Party game, you should definitely go to Sturgis. You have the best chance of actually contracting it there than anywhere else these days.


What their doing/taking at sturgis Covid probably least of their worries.

[Topspinmo]

Also the particulates don’t flow smoothly; but rather the turbulent airflow causes particles to get caught in the mask. Also if this dude is correct, then what’s his answer as to why surgeons wear them during surgery?.
hi

To protect the patients.

[Topspinmo]

Per Google.......

"At dew point, air can no longer hold water vapor; when air is cooled beyond dew point water vapor turns to liquid form, the physical process known as condensation. It is this liquid form of your breath – minuscule droplets of water – that creates the fleeting, misty cloud we see when breathing in cold weather."

So....that is my breath that I see in a cold climate; all those minuscule aerosols. Hmmm. Thought so.

Also.........The warmth of the urine creates this same phenom in cold weather. Very interesting.


So that’s’ what happened when I wrote my name in snow bank at -10 below when kid:MOJE_whot:

[lkagele]

I just looked at photos of the tent with all the sides open to allow fresh air. That, to me, is not considered an enclosed area, especially with fresh air flowing in.

I think the point, really, is the hypocrisy. Lollapaloosa concert in Chicago - OK. Sturges bikers - super spreader. Obama birthday party - OK. Trump rally in Arizona - Super spreader.

Frankly, I think it's great for Obama to celebrate his 60th with his friends. But I also think it's fine for the folks in Sturges to get together and have their motorcycle fun.

[lkagele]

I found a video using a high speed camera. After viewing this video, there is no way you can tell me that masks do not contain aerosols. The difference between no mask and the three examples of masking is HUGE!

High speed camera captures how different types of face masks work - YouTube (https://youtu.be/DNeYfUTA11s)

Oh, come on. We're talking about microscopic particles that can't be captured by high speed video. I'm not sure what we're seeing in those videos but it certainly isn't microscopic aerosol particles. But then again, it came from YouTube so it's gotta be true........

[lkagele]

The areosol particles stayed in the air when they were introduced by people not wearing masks. THAT is why universal masking is advocated world wide. Masking and social distancing are still a mitigation behind the life saving vaccines we have now.

I do agree that the vaccine is life saving. But I think we should be focusing on building immunity rather than placing emphasis on avoiding the virus. If I'm infected with the virus, a mask will reduce somewhat my spreading of it. But if I know I have the virus, I'm better off staying at home just the same as I would if I knew I had a cold or the flu.

Immunity isn't solely gained by the vaccine. For those that have recovered from the China virus, I trust their bodies' natural immunity more than I do a fabricated vaccine. They're fine and need no vaccine. Take Vitamin D and Zinc (there's probably more) as those have proven to help the immune system in preventing contracting the virus and in fighting the virus if you get it.

Mask mandates are useless unless you're a politician seeking power and control.

[lkagele]

Per Google.......

"At dew point, air can no longer hold water vapor; when air is cooled beyond dew point water vapor turns to liquid form, the physical process known as condensation. It is this liquid form of your breath – minuscule droplets of water – that creates the fleeting, misty cloud we see when breathing in cold weather."

So....that is my breath that I see in a cold climate; all those minuscule aerosols. Hmmm. Thought so.

Also.........The warmth of the urine creates this same phenom in cold weather. Very interesting.

I'm no rocket surgeon but I don't think what you're seeing outside in cold climates are the microscopic particles. They're in there but that's not what you're seeing. Logic also tells me that people spend more times indoors in those types of climates and your hypothesis falls apart when that happens.

On a side note, I used to be able to write my full name in the snow but nowadays I need an eraser to clean the yellow off my snow boots.......

[Villageswimmer]

Hmmm. I think I will listen to the Cleveland Clinic on this one.

No point vaccinating those who’ve had COVID-19: Cleveland Clinic study suggests

No point vaccinating those who’ve had COVID-19: Cleveland Clinic study suggests (https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210608/No-point-vaccinating-those-whoe28099ve-had-COVID-19-Findings-of-Cleveland-Clinic-study.aspx)
The date of this article was June 8. Things change daily. Always check dates.

[MDLNB]

The areosol particles stayed in the air when they were introduced by people not wearing masks. THAT is why universal masking is advocated world wide. Masking and social distancing are still a mitigation behind the life saving vaccines we have now.


Did someone BAN masks? No one is outlawing your use of masks. If you wish to wear a mask all your life, do so. Wear one when you are driving in a car by yourself. Wear one at home. Heck, be safe and wear one when you are sleeping (in your safe room).

[coffeebean]

The number of breakthrough cases are increasing rapidly with the Delta variant. Those with breakthrough cases have the same viral loads as those who are unvaccinated. So previously vaccinated individuals can spread the virus as readily as those who were not vaccinated. The CDC conveniently stopped counting breakthrough cases, but other countries have continued to count. And those case numbers are exponentially higher than the CDC had been reporting months ago.

Yes. I am aware the CDC has stopped counting all breakthrough cases and only counting hospitalizations and deaths. I guess we will never really know how many breakthrough cases we will have here in the US. I guess we never would know anyway because many of those breakthrough cases are and would be asymptomatic. Asymptomatic people usually don't even get tested so would not know if they have a breakthrough case.

[Swoop]

Yes. I am aware the CDC has stopped counting all breakthrough cases and only counting hospitalizations and deaths. I guess we will never really know how many breakthrough cases we will have here in the US. I guess we never would know anyway because many of those breakthrough cases are and would be asymptomatic. Asymptomatic people usually don't even get tested so would not know if they have a breakthrough case.
So you’re also aware that the viral load in the breakthrough cases is the same as the viral load in those unvaccinated who get Covid?!?
Which means vaccinated or not, if you get Covid, you can spread it as readily…
And if you are asymptomatic you are much less likely to quarantine. This potentially makes you a more dangerous spreader of the virus…

[coffeebean]

So you’re also aware that the viral load in the breakthrough cases is the same as the viral load in those unvaccinated who get Covid?!?
Which means vaccinated or not, if you get Covid, you can spread it as readily…
And if you are asymptomatic you are much less likely to quarantine. This potentially makes you a more dangerous spreader of the virus…

Not any more dangerous a spreader than an un-vaccinated asymptomatic person who also would not quarantine, I would think.Vaccinated people are not contagious as long as un-vaccinated people and I heard that just a day ago.

[Velvet]

Vaccines for some of these other diseases are different than for the Chinese flu. After all, the regular flu has a new shot every year. Tired of all the self righteous garbage. Should we withhold care from people who are over weight and get diabetes because they do not stop eating and have never seen the inside of a gym? Withhold care from people who develop lung cancer because they smoke?

Can the over weight person, pass it on to you? Can the smoker? Now what about the person with Covid. That’s the problem. They may chose to get sick but what about the people who they give it to? It’s about accountability. Like a person shooting bullets and hitting a passerby. It was the passerby’s fault according to them. But it is the shooter who gets prosecuted in our society.

[Swoop]

Can the over weight person, pass it on to you? Can the smoker? Now what about the person with Covid. That’s the problem. They may chose to get sick but what about the people who they give it to? It’s about accountability. Like a person shooting bullets and hitting a passerby. It was the passerby’s fault according to them. But it is the shooter who gets prosecuted in our society.
Actually, according to the CDC, there are 44,000 second hand smoking related deaths every year. So, yes, the smoker can “pass it on”…

[Swoop]

Not any more dangerous a spreader than an un-vaccinated asymptomatic person who also would not quarantine, I would think.Vaccinated people are not contagious as long as un-vaccinated people and I heard that just a day ago.

You are the one who suggested that vaccinated people in breakthrough cases are more likely to be asymptomatic. Therefore more likely not to quarantine. Therefore more likely to spread the virus.
Please provide a link supporting your claim that vaccinated people are contagious for a shorter period of time.

[Velvet]

Actually, according to the CDC, there are 44,000 second hand smoking related deaths every year. So, yes, the smoker can “pass it on”…

Well, I guess that is true that’s why we designate places for smokers. Wish Covid would smell like smoke so we could tell when we are near danger.

[coffeebean]

You are the one who suggested that vaccinated people in breakthrough cases are more likely to be asymptomatic. Therefore more likely not to quarantine. Therefore more likely to spread the virus.
Please provide a link supporting your claim that vaccinated people are contagious for a shorter period of time.

Check the 4th bullet point in the "Infections and Spread" section from the CDC......

Delta Variant: What We Know About the Science | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html)

[Velvet]

Another rude self righteous A$$. Grumpy Old Man is one of the reasons I read TOTV everyday before work. It makes me feel a little better that we still have some common sense left.

Yeah, me too. The wrong person left.

[MDLNB]

Well, I guess that is true that’s why we designate places for smokers. Wish Covid would smell like smoke so we could tell when we are near danger.


Try social distancing according to the strong smell of some women's perfume. Although, I doubt any virus could survive the smell, let alone infect anyone.

[nn0wheremann]

I don't understand your point, are you saying it is better to just catch the virus and survive? Kind of like people having COVID parties and crossing their fingers?
Russian roulette club meets at his house.

[Kritsa]

American Association of Physicians and Surgeons website has a lot of information regarding early treatment for COVID. Studies are showing if you get early treatment( as opposed to sitting at home and waiting for it to get bad enough to go to the hospital) you have a much better outcome...
Just throwing that out there as a public service announcement... Do your own research and make the decision that is best for you... We are not all alike- we have different co-morbidities, different health history backgrounds- and a "one size fits all" approach does not work .
Figure out what is best for you, and do it.

If this helps one person, I will be doing a happy dance...

[golfing eagles]

American Association of Physicians and Surgeons website has a lot of information regarding early treatment for COVID. Studies are showing if you get early treatment( as opposed to sitting at home and waiting for it to get bad enough to go to the hospital) you have a much better outcome...
Just throwing that out there as a public service announcement... Do your own research and make the decision that is best for you... We are not all alike- we have different co-morbidities, different health history backgrounds- and a "one size fits all" approach does not work .
Figure out what is best for you, and do it.

If this helps one person, I will be doing a happy dance...

Very dangerous advice. "Do your own research and make the decision that is best for you" How about go to your doctor and listen to his expert advice. 99% of the people don't have the ability to do the correct research and understand what they are reading. And even if they do, unless they have a license they cannot "treat themselves" It's posts like this one that do more harm than good by implying that people can become an expert after a "google search"

And I'll use AAPS as an example of ridiculous "research"---

"The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is an ultra-right-wing non-profit association that promotes medical disinformation, such as HIV/AIDS denialism, the abortion-breast cancer hypothesis, vaccine and autism connections, and homosexuality reducing life expectancy."

And this is the site cited for "lots of information"
Res ipsa loquitur

[eremite06]

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.
Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection? - Israel National News (https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762)

Here in the USA, latest data I have seen shows that 150 million adults are fully vaccinated, which of course goes up every day.

What about the number of covid survivors? There are about 36 million confirmed cases, but the CDC estimates the actual number at 4 times that, in May 2021 they put the number at 120 million Americans that have had covid (symptomatics, asymptomatics, never tested etc) Currently the number would be 144 million using CDC formula.

Estimated COVID-19 Burden | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html)

I see some crazy profiling going on here, such as "that creepy pick up driver with the flags for sure is not vaccinated" It's ridiculous and ugly to attempt vaccine profiling, truth is you don't have a clue who has been fully vaccinated and who has immunity via surviving covid.

Maybe the millions of covid survivors with their superior immunity to Delta will start shaming and discriminating against the vaccinated. Sorry, covid survivors only on this cruise, or in this restaurant etc etc. According to the data from Israel, they have better protection than you do.

And now, a new study shows survivors of COVID-19 who ignored getting the vaccine are now twice as likely to get reinfected.

[MDLNB]

And now, a new study shows survivors of COVID-19 who ignored getting the vaccine are now twice as likely to get reinfected.


Interesting. Do you have a link to that "study?"

[eremite06]

Today's SUN. Page A-13.

[coffeebean]

Very dangerous advice. "Do your own research and make the decision that is best for you" How about go to your doctor and listen to his expert advice. 99% of the people don't have the ability to do the correct research and understand what they are reading. And even if they do, unless they have a license they cannot "treat themselves" It's posts like this one that do more harm than good by implying that people can become an expert after a "google search"

And I'll use AAPS as an example of ridiculous "research"---

"The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is an ultra-right-wing non-profit association that promotes medical disinformation, such as HIV/AIDS denialism, the abortion-breast cancer hypothesis, vaccine and autism connections, and homosexuality reducing life expectancy."

And this is the site cited for "lots of information"
Res ipsa loquitur

Problem is many people may not realize they are getting advice from sites such as this and have no idea they are receiving misinformation.

[MDLNB]

Today's SUN.
The SUN did a study? What did they do, take a Poll?

[golfing eagles]

The SUN did a study? What did they do, take a Poll?

Probably not even that. Most likely copied it from "somewhere":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Swoop]

And now, a new study shows survivors of COVID-19 who ignored getting the vaccine are now twice as likely to get reinfected.

Twice as likely as whom?

[MDLNB]

Twice as likely as whom?
Maybe "twice as likely" as NOT? Sounds ominous, huh?
I've got life insurance and death insurance. Life is just a flip of a coin anyway. Live or die, not your choice.

[MDLNB]

Probably not even that. Most likely copied it from "somewhere":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:


:bigbow: :clap2::clap2: :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[mamamia54]

My son had covid. He was very sick and he is 40. Thank God he is ok now. Went to get tested for antibodies and has NONE.

[MDLNB]

My son had covid. He was very sick and he is 40. Thank God he is ok now. Went to get tested for antibodies and has NONE.
Is he convinced to get the vaccination?

[coffeebean]

Twice as likely as whom?

Unvaccinated COVID-19 Survivors Twice as Likely to Get Reinfected, Study Shows – NBC4 Washington (https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/coronavirus/unvaccinated-covid-19-survivors-twice-as-likely-to-get-reinfected-study-shows/2764326/)

[Swoop]

Unvaccinated COVID-19 Survivors Twice as Likely to Get Reinfected, Study Shows – NBC4 Washington (https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/coronavirus/unvaccinated-covid-19-survivors-twice-as-likely-to-get-reinfected-study-shows/2764326/)
Such a misleading title to that article.
The chances of reinfection from Covid are extremely low: Survivors of Covid-19 are significantly less likely than the rest of the population to catch the novel coronavirus—but their risk of reinfection is not zero, according to a study published Wednesday in JAMA Internal Medicine.

So if you recovered from Covid and then got your shot you are twice as likely not to be reinfected. But if you didn’t get your shot, your chances of reinfection are still lower than the rest of the population…

[Northwoods]

Why should a covid survivor who has greater immunity than you do get the vaccine? I thought we were following the "science"

To make you feel better and safer? I hate to burst your bubble but covid is not going away. It's going to be endemic just like the flu, and new variants will probably require booster shots every year. It will probably become less deadly over time, and maybe in a few hundred years it will become similar to other coronaviruses and cause common colds.

Even if every man woman and child in USA were vaccinated, vaccine resistant variants like Delta will develop in other parts of the world and in this modern world, slip back into America.

I don't dispute any of your claims... but let me tell you why I, someone who had COVID, got the vaccine...

I have friends who are very elderly. I could never live with myself if I gave anyone COVID. So... I got the vaccine because I will take every precaution to protect my friends.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I don't dispute any of your claims... but let me tell you why I, someone who had COVID, got the vaccine...

I have friends who are very elderly. I could never live with myself if I gave anyone COVID. So... I got the vaccine because I will take every precaution to protect my friends.

My sister has a few medical situations that prevent her from being able to get the vaccine. She has also had COVID-19, was very sick for a couple of months, and is immuno-compromised and could end up in the hospital if she ends up with the Delta variant.

For her, and for anyone else in that situation, I'm more than happy to be vaccinated. AND wear a mask inside in crowded areas if asked to by a business establishment, or even if I personally am feeling uncomfortable by the crowd.

For anyone who -chooses- not to vaccinate, eh. Not too concerned if they get sick. It's their choice, afterall. They just need to stay away from my sister, or they'll be answering to me.

[MorTech]

That statistic is bogus since 99.3% of all those who contracted COVID did not survive.

[jswirs]

Get the damn vaccine and quit looking for excuses in pseudoscience and false analysis. It's the patriotic thing to do for your fellow Americans. Either we stop COVID or it will mutate into something worse than the delta variant, which is now killing young people.
And people refusing the vaccine should be ashamed of their cowardice and self centeredness.
If you don't want to get the vaccine stay away from public places.
"America, Land of the compliant, home of the timid"

[coffeebean]

Such a misleading title to that article.
The chances of reinfection from Covid are extremely low: Survivors of Covid-19 are significantly less likely than the rest of the population to catch the novel coronavirus—but their risk of reinfection is not zero, according to a study published Wednesday in JAMA Internal Medicine.

So if you recovered from Covid and then got your shot you are twice as likely not to be reinfected. But if you didn’t get your shot, your chances of reinfection are still lower than the rest of the population…

"The rest of the population" meaning those who are not vaccinated yet; that makes sense.

[Swoop]

"The rest of the population" meaning those who are not vaccinated yet; that makes sense.

Even according to the CDC, the results of that one Kentucky study even goes against their lab findings. Every other study available shows that those who have recovered from Covid have better immunity than those who have been vaccinated. But that one study in Kentucky fits the CDC/media narrative better, so that’s the one that gets promoted…

[MDLNB]

That statistic is bogus since 99.3% of all those who contracted COVID did not survive.


Unless you can provide verifiable proof of that number, I don't believe it. I know at least a dozen family members that have had the Covid virus and they ALL survived. I guess you are going to tell me that they are all exceptions to the norm.

[coffeebean]

That statistic is bogus since 99.3% of all those who contracted COVID did not survive.

I think you just might have that backwards. Just a hunch though.