Mayo Clinic: Vaccine effectiveness against Delta dropping

[SkBlogW]

Mayo Clinic study is in preprint, not peer reviewed yet

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness may be "a wakeup call"

A new preprint study that raises concerns about the mRNA vaccines' effectiveness against Delta — particularly Pfizer's — has already grabbed the attention of top Biden administration officials.

What they're saying: The study found the Pfizer vaccine was only 42% effective against infection in July, when the Delta variant was dominant. "If that's not a wakeup call, I don't know what is," a senior Biden official told Axios.

Driving the news: The study, conducted by nference and the Mayo Clinic, compared the effectiveness of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in the Mayo Clinic Health System over time from January to July.

Overall, it found that the Moderna vaccine was 86% effective against infection over the study period, and Pfizer's was 76%. Moderna's vaccine was 92% effective against hospitalization and Pfizer's was 85%.

But the vaccines' effectiveness against infection dropped sharply in July, when the Delta variant's prevalence in Minnesota had risen to over 70%
.
Moderna was 76% effective against infection, and Pfizer was only 42% effective.
The study found similar results in other states.

For example, in Florida, the risk of infection in July for people fully vaccinated with Moderna was about 60% lower than for people fully vaccinated with Pfizer.

Between the lines: The two shots both use mRNA, but there are significant differences between them.

For example, Moderna is given in a stronger dose than Pfizer, and there is a slightly different time interval between shots.

"There are a few differences between what are known to be similar vaccines .... None of these variables is an obvious smoking gun, although the dosing amount seems the most likely to be a factor," Moore said.

article:

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness against Delta raises concern among Biden administration - Axios (https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-delta-biden-e9be4bb0-3d10-4f56-8054-5410be357070.html)

actual study

Comparison of two highly-effective mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 during periods of Alpha and Delta variant prevalence | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1)

[Velvet]

Did the study indicate when the shots were given? Pfizer said the effectiveness of their vaccine wanes over time. I’d like to see data on breakthrough illness from the time of full immunization.

[SkBlogW]

Did the study indicate when the shots were given? Pfizer said the effectiveness of their vaccine wanes over time. I’d like to see data on breakthrough illness from the time of full immunization.

Study was conducted from January-July 2021. You can read it by clicking on 2nd link in OP

[Velvet]

Study was conducted from January-July 2021. You can read it by clicking on 2nd link in OP

I looked at the whole article but I can’t see anywhere the question I am looking for. Which is how much does the effectiveness of the phizer or moderna vaccine drop over time against the same variant? Somewhere I read about 6% decline each month or more after the 4 or 5th month of full immunization - I wish I saved the article. That way we could each individually estimate how safe we still might be after our vaccination.

[SkBlogW]

I looked at the whole article but I can’t see anywhere the question I am looking for. Which is how much does the effectiveness of the phizer or moderna vaccine drop over time against the same variant? Somewhere I read about 6% decline each month or more after the 4 or 5th month of full immunization - I wish I saved the article. That way we could each individually estimate how safe we still might be after our vaccination.

Good question, the abstract says they look at over 50 thousand individuals, half vaccinated and half not, from January to July 2021, so you probably have a good mix of months from vaccination. Abstract does state that they record date of vaccination for each participant so perhaps this info is in the paper somewhere. Here is a link to the full study, let us know if you find anything.

Comparison of two highly-effective mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 during periods of Alpha and Delta variant prevalence | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full-text)

[billethkid]

Every reporter, news agency, main stream media makes a headline out of covid studies that meet their agenda.

The agenda? Confusion and fear.

Anyone want to guess how many different "studies" there are or have been regarding covid "anything".

Authenticity? Never mind roll the presses!!!

[SkBlogW]

Every reporter, news agency, main stream media makes a headline out of covid studies that meet their agenda.

The agenda? Confusion and fear.

Anyone want to guess how many different "studies" there are or have been regarding covid "anything".

Authenticity? Never mind roll the presses!!!

Hmmm The Mayo Clinic is one of the most respected medical/science institutions in the world. The numbers reported in the article are exactly the same as those in the actual study (linked above) so I wouldn't call in inflammatory journalism.

This isn't the best news but I would rather keep up to date than hide my head in the sand. Even though I have the more effective Moderna vaccine, I'm going back to Hermit mode (masks are useless) until this wave subsides or they start giving out booster shots.

I expect this data will be on the nightly news shortly, unless they suppress it for some reason.

[SkBlogW]

I looked at the whole article but I can’t see anywhere the question I am looking for. Which is how much does the effectiveness of the phizer or moderna vaccine drop over time against the same variant? Somewhere I read about 6% decline each month or more after the 4 or 5th month of full immunization - I wish I saved the article. That way we could each individually estimate how safe we still might be after our vaccination.

I found a graph in the full text version of the study.

90400

At the bottom it shows rises in infection over time since vaccination. Pfizer (blue) rises more, especially toward the end. This could be vaccine effectiveness going down over time or less effectiveness against the Delta as it started to dominate.

[Dana1963]

Mayo Clinic study is in preprint, not peer reviewed yet

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness may be "a wakeup call"

A new preprint study that raises concerns about the mRNA vaccines' effectiveness against Delta — particularly Pfizer's — has already grabbed the attention of top Biden administration officials.

What they're saying: The study found the Pfizer vaccine was only 42% effective against infection in July, when the Delta variant was dominant. "If that's not a wakeup call, I don't know what is," a senior Biden official told Axios.

Driving the news: The study, conducted by nference and the Mayo Clinic, compared the effectiveness of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in the Mayo Clinic Health System over time from January to July.

Overall, it found that the Moderna vaccine was 86% effective against infection over the study period, and Pfizer's was 76%. Moderna's vaccine was 92% effective against hospitalization and Pfizer's was 85%.

But the vaccines' effectiveness against infection dropped sharply in July, when the Delta variant's prevalence in Minnesota had risen to over 70%
.
Moderna was 76% effective against infection, and Pfizer was only 42% effective.
The study found similar results in other states.

For example, in Florida, the risk of infection in July for people fully vaccinated with Moderna was about 60% lower than for people fully vaccinated with Pfizer.

Between the lines: The two shots both use mRNA, but there are significant differences between them.

For example, Moderna is given in a stronger dose than Pfizer, and there is a slightly different time interval between shots.

"There are a few differences between what are known to be similar vaccines .... None of these variables is an obvious smoking gun, although the dosing amount seems the most likely to be a factor," Moore said.

article:

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness against Delta raises concern among Biden administration - Axios (https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-delta-biden-e9be4bb0-3d10-4f56-8054-5410be357070.html)

actual study

Comparison of two highly-effective mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 during periods of Alpha and Delta variant prevalence | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1)
I expected as much just like the annual flu it changes unfortunately kind of expect there may be a booster required and the debate will continue. Its a choice either you get it or don’t

[billethkid]

Hmmm The Mayo Clinic is one of the most respected medical/science institutions in the world. The numbers reported in the article are exactly the same as those in the actual study (linked above) so I wouldn't call in inflammatory journalism.

This isn't the best news but I would rather keep up to date than hide my head in the sand. Even though I have the more effective Moderna vaccine, I'm going back to Hermit mode (masks are useless) until this wave subsides or they start giving out booster shots.

I expect this data will be on the nightly news shortly, unless they suppress it for some reason.

I accept organizations like Mayo. My reference was intended for the Heinz 57 variety studies and loose reporting.

[lkagele]

I expected as much just like the annual flu it changes unfortunately kind of expect there may be a booster required and the debate will continue. Its a choice either you get it or don’t

I think you're correct. Take a look at this article recapping a podcast with Dr. Robert Malone. He's apparently the guy that came up with the science used by Moderna and Pifzer to make their vaccines.

Public health experts must check 'egos at the door,' adjust COVID policy, says mRNA pioneer | Just The News (https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/public-health-experts-need-check-egos-door-and-adjust-covid-policy-says)

He agrees the vaccines are less effective on the variants. Believes we should be focusing more on early onset treatment as there are very good anti-inflammatory drugs to treat this "hyperinflammatory disease". Also mentions instead of adjusting to the new findings, the CDC is suppressing dissent and discussion.

[MDLNB]

I don't worry about the "infection rate." The DEATH rate is more important. Even if the vaccination is weaker and more folks that are vaccinated can become infected, the idea is whether or not they need to be hospitalized or if they may die.
The vaccinations may or may not have contributed to controlling the wild fire of Covid related deaths, so now let this virus run it's course so that the survivors can get on with their lives.

[graciegirl]

Mayo Clinic study is in preprint, not peer reviewed yet

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness may be "a wakeup call"

A new preprint study that raises concerns about the mRNA vaccines' effectiveness against Delta — particularly Pfizer's — has already grabbed the attention of top Biden administration officials.

What they're saying: The study found the Pfizer vaccine was only 42% effective against infection in July, when the Delta variant was dominant. "If that's not a wakeup call, I don't know what is," a senior Biden official told Axios.

Driving the news: The study, conducted by nference and the Mayo Clinic, compared the effectiveness of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in the Mayo Clinic Health System over time from January to July.

Overall, it found that the Moderna vaccine was 86% effective against infection over the study period, and Pfizer's was 76%. Moderna's vaccine was 92% effective against hospitalization and Pfizer's was 85%.

But the vaccines' effectiveness against infection dropped sharply in July, when the Delta variant's prevalence in Minnesota had risen to over 70%
.
Moderna was 76% effective against infection, and Pfizer was only 42% effective.
The study found similar results in other states.

For example, in Florida, the risk of infection in July for people fully vaccinated with Moderna was about 60% lower than for people fully vaccinated with Pfizer.

Between the lines: The two shots both use mRNA, but there are significant differences between them.

For example, Moderna is given in a stronger dose than Pfizer, and there is a slightly different time interval between shots.

"There are a few differences between what are known to be similar vaccines .... None of these variables is an obvious smoking gun, although the dosing amount seems the most likely to be a factor," Moore said.

article:

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness against Delta raises concern among Biden administration - Axios (https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-delta-biden-e9be4bb0-3d10-4f56-8054-5410be357070.html)

actual study

Comparison of two highly-effective mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 during periods of Alpha and Delta variant prevalence | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1)

COVID Breakthrough Risk May Be Lower With Moderna Than Pfizer Vaccine, Study Finds – NBC New York (https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/mayo-clinic-covid-breakthrough-risk-may-be-much-lower-with-moderna-than-pfizer/3215548/)

[Aces4]

COVID Breakthrough Risk May Be Lower With Moderna Than Pfizer Vaccine, Study Finds – NBC New York (https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/mayo-clinic-covid-breakthrough-risk-may-be-much-lower-with-moderna-than-pfizer/3215548/)

Excellent article and I hope EVERYONE reads it through to the end. The covid 19 vaccines are not a panacea and it is not because of the unvaccinated that covid is morphing. There needs to be a new treatment development for the inflammatory factors of this disease when contracted. The CDC needs to take a new treatment tact now if people are going to survive in the long run.

[Escape Artist]

Excellent article and I hope EVERYONE reads it through to the end. The covid 19 vaccines are not a panacea and it is not because of the unvaccinated that covid is morphing. There needs to be a new treatment development for the inflammatory factors of this disease when contracted. The CDC needs to take a new treatment tact now if people are going to survive in the long run.

You're right but people don't want to hear that. They are so scared of this virus they don't want to even think about treatment, only how to avoid getting it. That's natural I suppose, but it's like saying I never want to catch a cold or get the flu. It's unrealistic. there are bound to be more variants - after all this is a coronavirus like the common cold and there are hundreds of strains of that. We have to accept it and adjust and find common sense solutions other than total avoidance which isn't going to work.

[Escape Artist]

I think you're correct. Take a look at this article recapping a podcast with Dr. Robert Malone. He's apparently the guy that came up with the science used by Moderna and Pifzer to make their vaccines.

Public health experts must check 'egos at the door,' adjust COVID policy, says mRNA pioneer | Just The News (https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/public-health-experts-need-check-egos-door-and-adjust-covid-policy-says)

He agrees the vaccines are less effective on the variants. Believes we should be focusing more on early onset treatment as there are very good anti-inflammatory drugs to treat this "hyperinflammatory disease". Also mentions instead of adjusting to the new findings, the CDC is suppressing dissent and discussion.

What a great article, thanks for posting the link. Dr. Malone goes beyond COVID to the heart of the matter regarding what's going on with the CDC/WHO and the scientific community.

[blueash]

I think you're correct. Take a look at this article recapping a podcast with Dr. Robert Malone. He's apparently the guy that came up with the science used by Moderna and Pifzer to make their vaccines.

Public health experts must check 'egos at the door,' adjust COVID policy, says mRNA pioneer | Just The News (https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/public-health-experts-need-check-egos-door-and-adjust-covid-policy-says)

He agrees the vaccines are less effective on the variants. Believes we should be focusing more on early onset treatment as there are very good anti-inflammatory drugs to treat this "hyperinflammatory disease". Also mentions instead of adjusting to the new findings, the CDC is suppressing dissent and discussion.

Malone is not a reliable source. He is a self promoting blowhard. The only person who says he is responsible for mRNA work is himself. He pushes unproven and unsupported therapies. Please ignore his writing.

[blueash]

Excellent article and I hope EVERYONE reads it through to the end. The covid 19 vaccines are not a panacea and it is not because of the unvaccinated that covid is morphing. There needs to be a new treatment development for the inflammatory factors of this disease when contracted. The CDC needs to take a new treatment tact now if people are going to survive in the long run.

The CDC does not provide a "treatment tact". They collect data on disease and the effectiveness of approaches. It is not their job to invent new approaches or do drug research. Your statement that the new varieties of Covid are unrelated to unvaccinated people is simply not correct. The subject of how the unvaccinated are providing the petri dishes for Covid mutation is NOT addressed at all in the article you reference, even all the way to the end.

For real science on the issue of how the unvaccinated are putting all of us at risk now and going forward read
HERE (https://www.healthline.com/health-news/unvaccinated-people-are-increasing-the-chances-for-more-coronavirus-variants-heres-how#Millions-unvaccinated) or HERE (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/07/doctor-unvaccinated-clusters-allow-covid-to-mutate-and-increase-risk.html) or HERE (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/breakthrough-covid-infections-show-the-unvaccinated-are-now-putting-the-vaccinated-at-risk) or HERE (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/are-we-creating-ideal-conditions-for-new-coronavirus-variants)

No one every said that the vaccines were going to be 100% effective. The data in the article shows they are extremely effective but not perfect

the authors found that both vaccines "strongly protect" against severe disease; the difference appears to be more about whether people get infected at all in the first place. The CDC has said the risk of infection is 8x higher in the unvaccinated than the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization or death is 25x higher.

[Susan1717]

I’d like to see the same studies regarding the delta variant fir people that had Covid with natural antibodies. I’ve read that they are more positive in fighting variants but I’d love to see this same study doing a comparison.

[MrZero]

You're right but people don't want to hear that. They are so scared of this virus they don't want to even think about treatment, only how to avoid getting it. That's natural I suppose, but it's like saying I never want to catch a cold or get the flu. It's unrealistic. there are bound to be more variants - after all this is a coronavirus like the common cold and there are hundreds of strains of that. We have to accept it and adjust and find common sense solutions other than total avoidance which isn't going to work.

Exactly, and I believe all that fear has been stoked by media and government. Covid-19 will most likely be with us indefinitely. The concern about the vaccines should not be "will I get infected?" but rather "will I survive?" Surviving infection is the best way to protect ourselves because the immune system (unless you are immuno-compromised) will do the heavy lifting. It appears the most important phrase from the Mayo study is, "Our observational study highlights that while both mRNA COVID-19 vaccines strongly protect against infection and severe disease. . ."

[thevillages2013]

I’d like to see the same studies regarding the delta variant fir people that had Covid with natural antibodies. I’ve read that they are more positive in fighting variants but I’d love to see this same study doing a comparison.
Pretty sure you won’t see that study because it doesn’t fit the narrative of getting everyone to get the vaccine

[Kelevision]

I think you're correct. Take a look at this article recapping a podcast with Dr. Robert Malone. He's apparently the guy that came up with the science used by Moderna and Pifzer to make their vaccines.

Public health experts must check 'egos at the door,' adjust COVID policy, says mRNA pioneer | Just The News (https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/public-health-experts-need-check-egos-door-and-adjust-covid-policy-says)

He agrees the vaccines are less effective on the variants. Believes we should be focusing more on early onset treatment as there are very good anti-inflammatory drugs to treat this "hyperinflammatory disease". Also mentions instead of adjusting to the new findings, the CDC is suppressing dissent and discussion.

I’m not disagreeing about the less effectiveness of the vaccine. They said from the start there would be a booster and they didn’t know how long it would last and that was before Delta variant. But that Dr Malone guy is NOT the guy who invented mRNA. He’s full of BS. He’s literally the only person who says HE invented it. :ho:

[lkagele]

Malone is not a reliable source. He is a self promoting blowhard. The only person who says he is responsible for mRNA work is himself. He pushes unproven and unsupported therapies. Please ignore his writing.

Let me guess. Facebook or Twitter told you his advice was misinformation. If you're advising others to totally dismiss this mans' advice, you'd better provide some reliable sources to prove he's been wrong in the past. Yes, there as those in the main stream media that take shots at him. Funny thing is, everything he says that they dispute turns out to be accurate.

Yes, it's disputed as to who came up with the science. Still doesn't take away from the fact he knows the science and his advice makes sense.

Listen to the entire pod cast and then decide. He certainly knows the science. He too agrees the vaccines will be less and less effective as the virus mutates. He thinks Fauci and the CDC should be focusing not on just the vaccine but also on a course of early treatment if/when you contract the virus. He thinks Fauci is in the pocket of big pharma aided by the censorship tools of big tech companies. That's not too hard to believe, IMO.

[PaulinTV]

I don't worry about the "infection rate." The DEATH rate is more important. Even if the vaccination is weaker and more folks that are vaccinated can become infected, the idea is whether or not they need to be hospitalized or if they may die.
The vaccinations may or may not have contributed to controlling the wild fire of Covid related deaths, so now let this virus run it's course so that the survivors can get on with their lives.

I agree that death rate is extremely important but because we don't know the long term effects of this virus yet, and understandable due to it's infancy, I'm focusing on 1) not getting infected, 2) reducing the effects if I do, and 3) not dying....yet.

[midiwiz]

T

For real science on the issue of how the unvaccinated are putting all of us at risk now and going forward read
HERE (https://www.healthline.com/health-news/unvaccinated-people-are-increasing-the-chances-for-more-coronavirus-variants-heres-how#Millions-unvaccinated) or HERE (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/07/doctor-unvaccinated-clusters-allow-covid-to-mutate-and-increase-risk.html) or HERE (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/breakthrough-covid-infections-show-the-unvaccinated-are-now-putting-the-vaccinated-at-risk) or HERE (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/are-we-creating-ideal-conditions-for-new-coronavirus-variants)



Just a FYI, these are not citable references, none of them are nothing more than second or third hand opinion. Standardly dot coms are not reliable sources of information.

[TedfromGA]

Breitbart news indicates over 1 million Americans have gotten a 3rd shot. Over 1 Million Americans Obtaining Unauthorized Vaccine Boosters (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/08/11/moderna-pfizer-unauthorized-vaccine/)

Has anyone gotten a 3rd shot? I'm thinking of getting another Moderna shot. Why?

Several people who had the Pfizer shots have had a break through episode - we were exposed but didn't experience a break through. (We tested negative 3 times just to be sure).

[merrymini]

Now that you have been thoroughly brainwashed and manipulated, line up for shots 3, 4, 5 and 6.

[golden]

Leaked report reveals Moderna COVID vaccine caused 300,000 vaccine injuries in three-month span, hidden from VAERS;
Source: naturalnews.con 8/11/2021

[tsmall22204]

So now you are some kind of expert in vaccines? The truth is that over 98% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated. So the strength of the vaccine possibly has diminished slightly, the over 98% are those who are to stupid or medically not getting the vaccine. They are spreading the virus not vaccinated people.

[Larchap49]

Mayo Clinic study is in preprint, not peer reviewed yet

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness may be "a wakeup call"

A new preprint study that raises concerns about the mRNA vaccines' effectiveness against Delta — particularly Pfizer's — has already grabbed the attention of top Biden administration officials.

What they're saying: The study found the Pfizer vaccine was only 42% effective against infection in July, when the Delta variant was dominant. "If that's not a wakeup call, I don't know what is," a senior Biden official told Axios.

Driving the news: The study, conducted by nference and the Mayo Clinic, compared the effectiveness of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in the Mayo Clinic Health System over time from January to July.

Overall, it found that the Moderna vaccine was 86% effective against infection over the study period, and Pfizer's was 76%. Moderna's vaccine was 92% effective against hospitalization and Pfizer's was 85%.

But the vaccines' effectiveness against infection dropped sharply in July, when the Delta variant's prevalence in Minnesota had risen to over 70%
.
Moderna was 76% effective against infection, and Pfizer was only 42% effective.
The study found similar results in other states.

For example, in Florida, the risk of infection in July for people fully vaccinated with Moderna was about 60% lower than for people fully vaccinated with Pfizer.

Between the lines: The two shots both use mRNA, but there are significant differences between them.

For example, Moderna is given in a stronger dose than Pfizer, and there is a slightly different time interval between shots.

"There are a few differences between what are known to be similar vaccines .... None of these variables is an obvious smoking gun, although the dosing amount seems the most likely to be a factor," Moore said.

article:

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness against Delta raises concern among Biden administration - Axios (https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-delta-biden-e9be4bb0-3d10-4f56-8054-5410be357070.html)

actual study

Comparison of two highly-effective mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 during periods of Alpha and Delta variant prevalence | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1)

Here is another opinion from a relatives daughter who is a Micro Biologist that has been working on covid from the beginning. She says the Delta variant is fiction because covid 19 is a man made alteration of a virus so all rules of mutation do not apply. It can not mutate because of the alteration of the RNA in the original virus. Covid was designed to kill everyone who contracted it but has failed miserably. There is a lot more to this but not room for it all.. The vaccine was ready is such a short time because the prime companies had already developed and patented it in advance. It was financed in part by the US but mostly by a group of the richest men who are actively trying to change America. I'm sure you can figure out most of them. The main one who is huge in the computer industry has been very vocal in his thoughts on population control. FYI this is just 2nd hand info from someone involved in the research who is much smarter than me, but food for thought and possibly explains some of the flip flopping and mystery. I am going to do more reading with a new focus. For those who poo poo anything that goes against the grain and believe anything the government, media, or elitists tell you I guess you have lived a very sheltered life or are just very gullible. Thanks for reading let the attack begin. Remember I already stated this is 2nd hand and I have no data to back it up.

[MDLNB]

Leaked report reveals Moderna COVID vaccine caused 300,000 vaccine injuries in three-month span, hidden from VAERS;
Source: naturalnews.con 8/11/2021


What is considered a "vaccine injury?" Punctured skin, broken needles?

[Dasher0928]

Mayo Clinic study is in preprint, not peer reviewed yet

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness may be "a wakeup call"

A new preprint study that raises concerns about the mRNA vaccines' effectiveness against Delta — particularly Pfizer's — has already grabbed the attention of top Biden administration officials.

What they're saying: The study found the Pfizer vaccine was only 42% effective against infection in July, when the Delta variant was dominant. "If that's not a wakeup call, I don't know what is," a senior Biden official told Axios.

Driving the news: The study, conducted by nference and the Mayo Clinic, compared the effectiveness of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in the Mayo Clinic Health System over time from January to July.

Overall, it found that the Moderna vaccine was 86% effective against infection over the study period, and Pfizer's was 76%. Moderna's vaccine was 92% effective against hospitalization and Pfizer's was 85%.

But the vaccines' effectiveness against infection dropped sharply in July, when the Delta variant's prevalence in Minnesota had risen to over 70%
.
Moderna was 76% effective against infection, and Pfizer was only 42% effective.
The study found similar results in other states.

For example, in Florida, the risk of infection in July for people fully vaccinated with Moderna was about 60% lower than for people fully vaccinated with Pfizer.

Between the lines: The two shots both use mRNA, but there are significant differences between them.

For example, Moderna is given in a stronger dose than Pfizer, and there is a slightly different time interval between shots.

"There are a few differences between what are known to be similar vaccines .... None of these variables is an obvious smoking gun, although the dosing amount seems the most likely to be a factor," Moore said.

article:

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness against Delta raises concern among Biden administration - Axios (https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-delta-biden-e9be4bb0-3d10-4f56-8054-5410be357070.html)

actual study

Comparison of two highly-effective mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 during periods of Alpha and Delta variant prevalence | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1)

A recent Covid-19 patient asked his doctor if his case of Covid was the Delta variant, and the doctor replied he couldn’t know because there is no test for the Delta variant. The are guessing it is.

[Larchap49]

You're right but people don't want to hear that. They are so scared of this virus they don't want to even think about treatment, only how to avoid getting it. That's natural I suppose, but it's like saying I never want to catch a cold or get the flu. It's unrealistic. there are bound to be more variants - after all this is a coronavirus like the common cold and there are hundreds of strains of that. We have to accept it and adjust and find common sense solutions other than total avoidance which isn't going to work.

The government has no interest in anything but spreading fear for political gain plain and simple. That is so obvious a blind men can see it. Sorry I didn't want to make it political but if it looks like a duck

[graciegirl]

The government has no interest in anything but spreading fear for political gain plain and simple. That is so obvious a blind men can see it. Sorry I didn't want to make it political but if it looks like a duck

There really is a Pandemic. There really was a wave of people who died due to their age and the lack of a vaccine. This happened elsewhere as well, in other countries all over the world.

Now we have a vaccine and it is working really well in keeping people out of the hospital and not dying. It is free here in the U.S. Most people now in the hospital are not vaccinated. I am so sad for them and their families.

I am a person that thinks that nothing is perfect, but I have learned a lot of things as I suddenly got older. Some of my heroes in my teens were Salk and Sabin. I was a volunteer at Columbus Children's Hospital and I saw kids in Iron lungs. Some people are still crippled for the rest of their lives. I remember quarantines for childhood diseases in the forties.

I am a fiscal conservative and dislike a lot of government involvement but I am also a person who respects traditional medicine and bows to minds more intelligent than my own. I am grateful for the vaccine. I wish everyone would get it.

[billethkid]

What is considered a "vaccine injury?" Punctured skin, broken needles?

How about a bruise/black and blue from the point where the needle went in to the elbow.......welt the full length of the upper arm immediately after needle withdrawn.
By the time we got home the bruise replaced the the welt.

Went to the ER and it was diagnosed as a hematoma, not to worry, it will go away.
It took three months to finally "go away".

A very, very isolated incident most likely related to the technique (or lack of it) by the one giving the shot.

[blueash]

A recent Covid-19 patient asked his doctor if his case of Covid was the Delta variant, and the doctor replied he couldn’t know because there is no test for the Delta variant. The are guessing it is.

Your post is partly right and partly wrong, but extremely misleading. Of course there is a test for Delta. But it is not the simple five minute nasal swab available at the drug store. Analyzing the RNA of the virus is a more complex test which everyone is familiar with from crime shows. Some hospitals, universities and State and Federal labs and large national lab companies [think Quest] have the equipment to analyze or sequence the RNA. Your routine nasal swab just says yes or no to is Covid present.

If the doctor really said there is no test for Delta Covid, get a new doctor. More likely the doctor said that the test the patient had did not specifically test for Delta vs other variants. Right now the chance the patient had Delta is about 80%. You as a patient or the doctor AFAIK cannot order genomic sequencing on your sample but I may be wrong. Quest and Labcorp (https://newsroom.questdiagnostics.com/2021-01-18-Quest-Diagnostics-Granted-CDC-Contract-to-Sequence-COVID-19-Gene-Variants-to-Aid-Public-Health-Response-to-COVID-19)has been sequencing some of their positive tests randomly and with the patient ID stripped in cooperation with CDC's ongoing surveillance. Perhaps others are as well.

More testing is needed to see what particular variant is involved. This advanced testing is done to determine which variants are circulating in the community. Both state and national labs do this sequencing to detect shifts in what variants are out there. So now over 80% of the samples being sequenced are Delta
For more information the CDC explains the process and reasoning.. if you accept that the CDC is not some evil organization manipulating the population to create a new world order enforced by black helicopters and Facebook

HERE (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/variant-surveillance.html)
and more in depth HERE (https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#variant-proportions)
and for in depth information on the variants, go HERE (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/variant-info.html)

[MandoMan]

Mayo Clinic study is in preprint, not peer reviewed yet

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness may be "a wakeup call"

A new preprint study that raises concerns about the mRNA vaccines' effectiveness against Delta — particularly Pfizer's — has already grabbed the attention of top Biden administration officials.

What they're saying: The study found the Pfizer vaccine was only 42% effective against infection in July, when the Delta variant was dominant. "If that's not a wakeup call, I don't know what is," a senior Biden official told Axios.

Driving the news: The study, conducted by nference and the Mayo Clinic, compared the effectiveness of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in the Mayo Clinic Health System over time from January to July.

Overall, it found that the Moderna vaccine was 86% effective against infection over the study period, and Pfizer's was 76%. Moderna's vaccine was 92% effective against hospitalization and Pfizer's was 85%.

But the vaccines' effectiveness against infection dropped sharply in July, when the Delta variant's prevalence in Minnesota had risen to over 70%
.
Moderna was 76% effective against infection, and Pfizer was only 42% effective.
The study found similar results in other states.

For example, in Florida, the risk of infection in July for people fully vaccinated with Moderna was about 60% lower than for people fully vaccinated with Pfizer.

Between the lines: The two shots both use mRNA, but there are significant differences between them.

For example, Moderna is given in a stronger dose than Pfizer, and there is a slightly different time interval between shots.

"There are a few differences between what are known to be similar vaccines .... None of these variables is an obvious smoking gun, although the dosing amount seems the most likely to be a factor," Moore said.

article:

New data on coronavirus vaccine effectiveness against Delta raises concern among Biden administration - Axios (https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-delta-biden-e9be4bb0-3d10-4f56-8054-5410be357070.html)

actual study

Comparison of two highly-effective mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 during periods of Alpha and Delta variant prevalence | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1)

Interesting. Thanks for sharing the second link. So many people seem unable to understand that the only way to figure out the efficacy of a vaccine over time is to keep on testing it month by month. They blame drug companies and the CDC for not knowing in advance. Generally, with a new vaccine, it has been tested for several years before it is released, so its longevity is better known. To save lives and businesses, these vaccines were rushed. Who anticipated the giant “lunatic fringe” that would refuse to be vaccinated and so continually put the rest of us at added risk? Who knew we would soon have a more transmissible variant? A booster will be necessary, I think. Perhaps yearly. I seem to recall that 45 years ago, when I moved to Africa and needed a cholera vaccine, it was only good for six months. Then it needed a booster. Flu vaccines are new every year, to an extent. A couple years ago we were told “you can’t catch the same cold twice because you develop antibodies to that virus.” But more recently, researchers have found that those antibodies only last a year or two.

What I’m worried about is the variant that comes along with a much higher death rate than Covid-19. Something more like the Black Plague. It could happen. It only takes a few mutations here and there in an already rampant disease. If it were like the Black Plague, we’d be talking 100 million lost in the U.S. alone. Imagine how that would affect our country. Or our families.

[Sherry8bal]

Who cares? You can't believe anything the CDC, WHO or Fauci says. If you are vaccinated, quit wearing your masks.

[MDLNB]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing the second link. So many people seem unable to understand that the only way to figure out the efficacy of a vaccine over time is to keep on testing it month by month. They blame drug companies and the CDC for not knowing in advance. Generally, with a new vaccine, it has been tested for several years before it is released, so its longevity is better known. To save lives and businesses, these vaccines were rushed. Who anticipated the giant “lunatic fringe” that would refuse to be vaccinated and so continually put the rest of us at added risk? Who knew we would soon have a more transmissible variant? A booster will be necessary, I think. Perhaps yearly. I seem to recall that 45 years ago, when I moved to Africa and needed a cholera vaccine, it was only good for six months. Then it needed a booster. Flu vaccines are new every year, to an extent. A couple years ago we were told “you can’t catch the same cold twice because you develop antibodies to that virus.” But more recently, researchers have found that those antibodies only last a year or two.

What I’m worried about is the variant that comes along with a much higher death rate than Covid-19. Something more like the Black Plague. It could happen. It only takes a few mutations here and there in an already rampant disease. If it were like the Black Plague, we’d be talking 100 million lost in the U.S. alone. Imagine how that would affect our country. Or our families.


Why worry about something that you have no control over?

[NoMoSno]

What I’m worried about is the variant that comes along with a much higher death rate than Covid-19. Something more like the Black Plague. It could happen. It only takes a few mutations here and there in an already rampant disease. If it were like the Black Plague, we’d be talking 100 million lost in the U.S. alone. Imagine how that would affect our country. Or our families.
You can bet N. Korea, Iran, and other rogue nations are busy in their labs trying to create that variant.
They have now seen what chaos and death it can create.

[drducat]

Ahh but the real truth is here.....

https://twitter.com/cdelvallejr/status/1423831149567172616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1423831149567172616%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rt.com%2Fusa%2F531413-rogan-cancel-vaccination-spotify%2F

[Velvet]

How about a bruise/black and blue from the point where the needle went in to the elbow.......welt the full length of the upper arm immediately after needle withdrawn.
By the time we got home the bruise replaced the the welt.

Went to the ER and it was diagnosed as a hematoma, not to worry, it will go away.
It took three months to finally "go away".

A very, very isolated incident most likely related to the technique (or lack of it) by the one giving the shot.

I wouldn’t go back to the person who gave you the injection. They sound clumsy! Mine was a quick jab near the top of the shoulder, seriously less than a small mosquito bite. Both times by different people. The next day the muscle in that arm was sore as if I had an upper arm workout at the gym. That was it. The soreness was from the vaccine not the clumsy injector. Gone soon after.

[Escape Artist]

I am a person that thinks that nothing is perfect, but I have learned a lot of things as I suddenly got older. Some of my heroes in my teens were Salk and Sabin. I was a volunteer at Columbus Children's Hospital and I saw kids in Iron lungs. Some people are still crippled for the rest of their lives. I remember quarantines for childhood diseases in the forties.

Yes, quarantines for the sick not the healthy. What we experienced last year was the first time the government quarantined healthy people en masse during the lockdowns. That's not the way it's supposed to work or the way you achieve herd immunity, for that matter.

I'm vaccinated too but I also realize, and more are beginning to realize as this unfolds, that it may not offer long-lasting protection. Everyone has to come to grips with that fact and adjust. That means focusing on better treatments because the sad reality is that we will all likely contract a form of COVID to some degree, vaccinated or not.

[Escape Artist]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing the second link. So many people seem unable to understand that the only way to figure out the efficacy of a vaccine over time is to keep on testing it month by month. They blame drug companies and the CDC for not knowing in advance. Generally, with a new vaccine, it has been tested for several years before it is released, so its longevity is better known. To save lives and businesses, these vaccines were rushed. Who anticipated the giant “lunatic fringe” that would refuse to be vaccinated and so continually put the rest of us at added risk? Who knew we would soon have a more transmissible variant? A booster will be necessary, I think. Perhaps yearly. I seem to recall that 45 years ago, when I moved to Africa and needed a cholera vaccine, it was only good for six months. Then it needed a booster. Flu vaccines are new every year, to an extent. A couple years ago we were told “you can’t catch the same cold twice because you develop antibodies to that virus.” But more recently, researchers have found that those antibodies only last a year or two.

What I’m worried about is the variant that comes along with a much higher death rate than Covid-19. Something more like the Black Plague. It could happen. It only takes a few mutations here and there in an already rampant disease. If it were like the Black Plague, we’d be talking 100 million lost in the U.S. alone. Imagine how that would affect our country. Or our families.

COVID is a coronavirus like the common cold which there never has been a vaccine for so this is new territory for everyone including scientists and doctors. It's the nature of these vaccines that's worrying. While some even doubt the wisdom, efficacy or benefits of getting the seasonal flu vaccines, mRNA is entirely different and maybe getting multiple boosters of genetic-based shot is not the best thing for our immune systems. And don't let anyone tell you otherwise because as we are seeing they don't know themselves.

I have a friend who works for the FDA and works with pharm companies. Very smart guy who has his PhD in the computer tech side of medicine/science. I ran into him in January. He was double-masked and certainly not a COVID denier. When I asked his opinion on the new vaccines they were rolling out, he said he was getting it and urged me to as well but also said the pharm companies, scientists, etc. "just don't know" about long-term efficacy, side effects, etc. (said it to me twice for emphasis) but it was all they had at the moment.

[dreinerx1]

I’d like to see the same studies regarding the delta variant fir people that had Covid with natural antibodies. I’ve read that they are more positive in fighting variants but I’d love to see this same study doing a comparison.
I had Covid in December and just recently gave blood it showed antibodies 1 and 2 still in my system same for my husband. I too would like to see a study on this.

[GeriS]

What is considered a "vaccine injury?" Punctured skin, broken needles?
Your comment is not funny to the hundred of thousands of people who have been injured. People in wheel chairs, some shaking so bad they can't function, horrible rashes all over their bodies, not to mention the thousands who have died after getting the injection. The adverse reactions are listed on the CDC website und VEARS, however they have removed some to protect themselves. The covid virus has never been isolated. The NIH said this & they were doing so many cycles at first that it was picking up any tiny spec of cold, flu and so forth. The info is out there if you would look for yourself & not believe what people who have a vested interest financially are telling you. No proof masks work either. A virus tiny a cloth mask, or any mask is protecting you. If you can see this is about a new world order & getting us under control, our country is done.

[Escape Artist]

Your comment is not funny to the hundred of thousands of people who have been injured. People in wheel chairs, some shaking so bad they can't function, horrible rashes all over their bodies, not to mention the thousands who have died after getting the injection. The adverse reactions are listed on the CDC website und VEARS, however they have removed some to protect themselves. The covid virus has never been isolated. The NIH said this & they were doing so many cycles at first that it was picking up any tiny spec of cold, flu and so forth. The info is out there if you would look for yourself & not believe what people who have a vested interest financially are telling you. No proof masks work either. A virus tiny a cloth mask, or any mask is protecting you. If you can see this is about a new world order & getting us under control, our country is done.

With my 2nd shot I had terrible arm pain immediately, then a sore, swollen, inflamed arm for over a week and a lump developed at the injection site. I reported it to VAERS.

[Bob.Betty]

AMEN, no matter your belief you can find a study or articles backing your point of view. Time to stop pushing your beliefs on people and let them decide for themselves.

[MDLNB]

I guess that technically side effects COULD be construed as "injuries." Your reply "injured" my sensitivities. :cry:

[Ben Franklin]

I get a flu shot every year, because the virus mutates. I would expect the same with this virus since we didn't kill it, before it mutated.

[MDLNB]

I get a flu shot every year, because the virus mutates. I would expect the same with this virus since we didn't kill it, before it mutated.


Glad you get your flu shot. I totally advocate for flu shots for other folks that have sensitive health issues. Never had the flu and don't get the shot, but I did get the shingles shot and pneumonia shot. Had to get all kinds of shots when traveling overseas, but keep them to a minimum now. I consider vaccinations to be wonder drugs and a miracle. Why don't I get the flu shot? Never felt the need for it since I have been around folks suffering from the flu and never caught it. Maybe that will change if I ever catch the flu AND survive.Glad to see folks trying to be safe. I am not an Anti-Vaxxer, just haven't decided to get some vaccinations. My family tends to live long lives, in the 90's on average.

At least COVID deaths are down and even though the infection rate has risen, deaths from COVID are still down. That's a good thing.

[Bill14564]

Glad you get your flu shot. I totally advocate for flu shots for other folks that have sensitive health issues. Never had the flu and don't get the shot, but I did get the shingles shot and pneumonia shot. Had to get all kinds of shots when traveling overseas, but keep them to a minimum now. I consider vaccinations to be wonder drugs and a miracle. Why don't I get the flu shot? Never felt the need for it since I have been around folks suffering from the flu and never caught it. Maybe that will change if I ever catch the flu AND survive.Glad to see folks trying to be safe. I am not an Anti-Vaxxer, just haven't decided to get some vaccinations. My family tends to live long lives, in the 90's on average.

At least COVID deaths are down and even though the infection rate has risen, deaths from COVID are still down. That's a good thing.

Covid deaths have increased steadily for throat past three weeks.

[MDLNB]

Covid deaths have increased steadily for throat past three weeks.


Increased as compared to what number?

[Bill14564]

Increased as compared to what number?

Steadily increased means day over day or week over week. Look at the daily averages for 7/25, 8/1, 8/8, and today. The JHU Covid tracker has a graph that is easy to read.

[MDLNB]

Steadily increased means day over day or week over week. Look at the daily averages for 7/25, 8/1, 8/8, and today. The JHU civic tracker has a graph that is easy to read.


Ok, one is an increase over whatever other number you start with. Fear mongering when the numbers are showing an overall great trend is not good for anyone. If you wish to suggest an increase then I will suggest that the numbers are minute compared to last Jan.

[Bill14564]

Ok, one is an increase over whatever other number you start with. Fear mongering when the numbers are showing an overall great trend is not good for anyone. If you wish to suggest an increase then I will suggest that the numbers are minute compared to last Jan.

Not fear mongering, just verifiable data. I am not suggesting an increase, I am pointing to the data that show an increase.

Deaths lag cases by about three weeks and since cases have been climbing these past three weeks so deaths will likely climb too. The current peak isn't as high as Jan but it may not be done climbing yet. Thankfully, it looks like the death rate is not quite as high as the last surge but that is little consolation for the hundreds daily that are losing family members.

The only ones who seem to need to fear are those that rolled the dice and chose to not be vaccinated. Fortunately, vaccinations are on the rise too.

[PennBF]

We currently go to Mayo at least once a month for treatment and have been going to them for over 5 years. At our last visit one of the Doctors we see advised us to wear masks as things are getting worse. The Dr. was quite serious as opposed to a casual piece of advice. Within the last couple of weeks a rule has been passed at Mayo that all employees must be vaccinated. When there you must wear a mask. It is beyond selfish and uncaring to refuse to wear a mask to protect others and to refuse to get a vaccination given the level of concern by the medical world! This is not a game, it is the real world and it is too late when your in the hospital on all sorts of equipment to say you should have followed the advice. :ohdear:

[drducat]

Not fear mongering, just verifiable data. I am not suggesting an increase, I am pointing to the data that show an increase.

Deaths lag cases by about three weeks and since cases have been climbing these past three weeks so deaths will likely climb too. The current peak isn't as high as Jan but it may not be done climbing yet. Thankfully, it looks like the death rate is not quite as high as the last surge but that is little consolation for the hundreds daily that are losing family members.

The only ones who seem to need to fear are those that rolled the dice and chose to not be vaccinated. Fortunately, vaccinations are on the rise too.

Infection-enhancing anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies recognize both the original Wuhan/D614G strain and Delta variants. A potential risk for mass vaccination ?


ADE..Look Out (https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)00392-3/fulltext)

This reaction is forever...you can't go back once jabbed....watch out!

[Bill14564]

Infection-enhancing anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies recognize both the original Wuhan/D614G strain and Delta variants. A potential risk for mass vaccination ?


ADE..Look Out (https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)00392-3/fulltext)

This reaction is forever...you can't go back once jabbed....watch out!

You have been posting things like this for a while now,
is there anything that shows this is real and not just wishful thinking? Over 160M vaccinations, over 36M cases, over a month of Delta circulation, and over 60,000 currently hospitalized - how large do the numbers need to be before this can be put to bed?

[drducat]

You have been posting things like this for a while now,
is there anything that shows this is real and not just wishful thinking? Over 160M vaccinations, over 36M cases, over a month of Delta circulation, and over 60,000 currently hospitalized - how large do the numbers need to be before this can be put to bed?

How about preliminary...

[blueash]

How about preliminary...

How about you answer my question posed in the past. What kind of doctor are you? What training do you have in virology or epidemiology or infectious disease. You stick DR in your name but refuse to give your qualifications. Highly suspicious that you want readers to see you as a qualified expert but won't tell us what you are?

You post garbage like the image in the above post which in tiny print says it was from October 2020, before the vaccines were released and before the FDA had given them emergency authorization. The screen shot shows a list of POTENTIAL side effects that the FDA would be watching for once the shots were released. It shows the FDA knows that vaccines are not 100% safe and that certain rare reactions may not show up in clinical trials but only once larger numbers are vaccinated.

What that chart does NOT SHOW is that those side effects are actually occurring which you strongly suggest with every misleading post you make about them. Your continuous harping on the VAERS reports shows an abject ignorance about how VAERS gets its data. Anyone, any person whether a doctor or a patient or a friend or someone who wants to make stuff up can submit a report to VAERS where it will be accepted. There is no verification of those reports required to be accepted. You can lie and post all the serious stuff you can make up if you are an anti-vaxer and there it is on VAERS. While the government agency does follow up on the submitted reports, the result of those investigations is NOT posted to the VAERS website. So a wrong attribution, eg I broke my toe because the shot weakened my bones, stays up forever.

So Doctor, tell me and all your readers about your educational background, just a summary like what kind of doctor you might be. Dr J was a great basketball player but I wouldn't use him for medical decision making. Dr King was a great orator and civil rights leader, but I wouldn't trust him for virology advise. Or maybe you're embarrassed about your degree, or plain don't have one and are hiding behind a bogus screen name.

[drducat]

How about you answer my question posed in the past. What kind of doctor are you? What training do you have in virology or epidemiology or infectious disease. You stick DR in your name but refuse to give your qualifications. Highly suspicious that you want readers to see you as a qualified expert but won't tell us what you are?

You post garbage like the image in the above post which in tiny print says it was from October 2020, before the vaccines were released and before the FDA had given them emergency authorization. The screen shot shows a list of POTENTIAL side effects that the FDA would be watching for once the shots were released. It shows the FDA knows that vaccines are not 100% safe and that certain rare reactions may not show up in clinical trials but only once larger numbers are vaccinated.

What that chart does NOT SHOW is that those side effects are actually occurring which you strongly suggest with every misleading post you make about them. Your continuous harping on the VAERS reports shows an abject ignorance about how VAERS gets its data. Anyone, any person whether a doctor or a patient or a friend or someone who wants to make stuff up can submit a report to VAERS where it will be accepted. There is no verification of those reports required to be accepted. You can lie and post all the serious stuff you can make up if you are an anti-vaxer and there it is on VAERS. While the government agency does follow up on the submitted reports, the result of those investigations is NOT posted to the VAERS website. So a wrong attribution, eg I broke my toe because the shot weakened my bones, stays up forever.

So Doctor, tell me and all your readers about your educational background, just a summary like what kind of doctor you might be. Dr J was a great basketball player but I wouldn't use him for medical decision making. Dr King was a great orator and civil rights leader, but I wouldn't trust him for virology advise. Or maybe you're embarrassed about your degree, or plain don't have one and are hiding behind a bogus screen name.

VAERS........ I am not posting much about that reporting system.

[Altavia]

How about preliminary...

At this point, nonsense posts such as these are tatamoint to screaming fire in a crowded theater...

Medical workers are exhausted, this wave of infections could have been avoided. Many are ready to walk away from those who don't believe in protecting themselves.

[blueash]

VAERS........ I am not posting much about that reporting system.

Well that was an interesting reply to my post asking that you explain your supposed credentials. Completely ignored that didn't you. And you have posted about VAERS just as I wrote and as you acknowledged.

Like this gem:

Follow the money.....Pfizer Will File For Full FDA Approval By End Of May, Expects $26 Billion In Vaccine Revenue

Safe?...VAERS - Data Sets

Take a look at the (VAERS DATA) for 2021 so far...this is a passive data set so it is under reported not to mention only a few months into 2021......FDA needs more time before approving and if they do, they will be added to the list of those not to be trusted.

Where you tell your readers that the VAERS data under reports and because you are so much more qualified than the people at the FDA, those who've devoted their professional careers to actually studying infectious disease, pharmacy, virology.... You have the unmitigated gall to suggest that based on your expert opinion as a "doctor" that if the FDA approves the vaccines they are no longer trustworthy.

I know who is on my list of untrustworthy. Do you know what the time period between the phase three trials of the polio vaccine and approval and a massive federal and state plan to give that completely new kind of vaccine to children was? Should the FDA have withheld its approval for 5 or 10 years to see how those kids who were in the phase three trials did over time to be sure there were not some very long range concerns? Maybe you can look it up and report back on how long the government took to approve a vaccine that was killing.. wait for it.... about 3,000 people a year in this country.

We have had over 40,000 deaths from COVID in Florida alone, but you'd like the FDA to wait how long? If they wait one year you'll demand 2. If they wait two years you'll demand 5

Doctor Ducat, what length of time, based on your expertise in these fields, is long enough for the FDA to wait to give full approval to get your oh so important seal of excellence and stay on your trustworthy list? /s

[drducat]

At this point, nonsense posts such as these are tatamoint to screaming fire in a crowded theater...

Medical workers are exhausted, this wave of infections could have been avoided. Many are ready to walk away from those who don't believe in protecting themselves.

That came directly from the FDA

[drducat]

Well that was an interesting reply to my post asking that you explain your supposed credentials. Completely ignored that didn't you. And you have posted about VAERS just as I wrote and as you acknowledged.

Like this gem:



Where you tell your readers that the VAERS data under reports and because you are so much more qualified than the people at the FDA, those who've devoted their professional careers to actually studying infectious disease, pharmacy, virology.... You have the unmitigated gall to suggest that based on your expert opinion as a "doctor" that if the FDA approves the vaccines they are no longer trustworthy.

I know who is on my list of untrustworthy. Do you know what the time period between the phase three trials of the polio vaccine and approval and a massive federal and state plan to give that completely new kind of vaccine to children was? Should the FDA have withheld its approval for 5 or 10 years to see how those kids who were in the phase three trials did over time to be sure there were not some very long range concerns? Maybe you can look it up and report back on how long the government took to approve a vaccine that was killing.. wait for it.... about 3,000 people a year in this country.

We have had over 40,000 deaths from COVID in Florida alone, but you'd like the FDA to wait how long? If they wait one year you'll demand 2. If they wait two years you'll demand 5

Doctor Ducat, what length of time, based on your expertise in these fields, is long enough for the FDA to wait to give full approval to get your oh so important seal of excellence and stay on your trustworthy list? /s

Read it.....from Nature Mag...Very very possible yet to come.

Antibody-dependent enhancement and SARS-CoV-2 vaccines and therapies | Nature Microbiology (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5)

[Bill14564]

Read it.....from Nature Mag...Very very possible yet to come.


You have been posting things like this for a while now,
is there anything that shows this is real and not just wishful thinking? Over 160M vaccinations, over 36M cases, over a month of Delta circulation, and over 60,000 currently hospitalized - how large do the numbers need to be before this can be put to bed?

[drducat]

You have been posting things like this for a while now,
is there anything that shows this is real and not just wishful thinking? Over 160M vaccinations, over 36M cases, over a month of Delta circulation, and over 60,000 currently hospitalized - how large do the numbers need to be before this can be put to bed?

Your not understanding what triggers ADE....look it up...also look up Non Sterilizing vaccines..That will show what other issues we may have.

Also...Here is Fauci....


https://twitter.com/Angelasfreenews/status/1426284488024276999?s=20

[Bill14564]

Your not understanding what triggers ADE....look it up...also look up Non Sterilizing vaccines..That will show what other issues we may have.

Also...Here is Fauci....


https://twitter.com/Angelasfreenews/status/1426284488024276999?s=20

I believe one of the experts has already commented on your post - you chose to ignore them.

My google learning says ADE is always a concern (hence the pre-vaccine FDA "Draft" briefing slide) but that it can be ruled out after monitoring. As I wrote in my post, how many cases without ADE and how many vaccinated individuals with no sign of ADE and how many hospitalizations without a mention of ADE will it take before you stop crying that the sky is falling?

What is the date of that video? I know it was posted recently but I don't believe the White House Coronavirus Task Force has briefed in that setting since 2020. Since that time there have been the large number of vaccinations and cases - I imagine Fauci has gone on to worrying about more likely problems.
EDIT: Found the date, March 25, 2020 - very timely information you are passing around! Fauci also predicted at that time that vaccines would not be ready for 12 to 18 months (that would be between April 2021 and October 2021).

[drducat]

I believe one of the experts has already commented on your post - you chose to ignore them.

My google learning says ADE is always a concern (hence the pre-vaccine FDA "Draft" briefing slide) but that it can be ruled out after monitoring. As I wrote in my post, how many cases without ADE and how many vaccinated individuals with no sigh of ADE, and how many hospitalizations without a mention of ADE will it take before you stop crying that the sky is falling?

What is the date of that video? I know it was posted recently but I don't believe the White House Coronavirus Task Force has briefed in that setting since 2020. Since that time there have been the large number of vaccinations and cases - I imagine Fauci has gone on to worrying about more likely problems.
EDIT: Found the date, March 25, 2020 - very timely information you are passing around! Fauci also predicted at that time that vaccines would not be ready for 12 to 18 months (that would be between April 2021 and October 2021).

We have no experts on this forum period... Better yet look it up on Snopes.....No wait.

[drducat]

Don't cast your pearls before swine..........I need to take to heart

[coffeebean]

What a great article, thanks for posting the link. Dr. Malone goes beyond COVID to the heart of the matter regarding what's going on with the CDC/WHO and the scientific community.

A Hungarian scientist invented the mRNA technology. Why does this Dr. Malone take the credit he is not due?

The story of mRNA: From a loose idea to a tool that may help curb Covid (https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/)

[coffeebean]

The CDC does not provide a "treatment tact". They collect data on disease and the effectiveness of approaches. It is not their job to invent new approaches or do drug research. Your statement that the new varieties of Covid are unrelated to unvaccinated people is simply not correct. The subject of how the unvaccinated are providing the petri dishes for Covid mutation is NOT addressed at all in the article you reference, even all the way to the end.

For real science on the issue of how the unvaccinated are putting all of us at risk now and going forward read
HERE (https://www.healthline.com/health-news/unvaccinated-people-are-increasing-the-chances-for-more-coronavirus-variants-heres-how#Millions-unvaccinated) or HERE (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/07/doctor-unvaccinated-clusters-allow-covid-to-mutate-and-increase-risk.html) or HERE (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/breakthrough-covid-infections-show-the-unvaccinated-are-now-putting-the-vaccinated-at-risk) or HERE (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/are-we-creating-ideal-conditions-for-new-coronavirus-variants)

No one every said that the vaccines were going to be 100% effective. The data in the article shows they are extremely effective but not perfect

Preach!

[coffeebean]

Leaked report reveals Moderna COVID vaccine caused 300,000 vaccine injuries in three-month span, hidden from VAERS;
Source: naturalnews.con 8/11/2021

I don't believe it. When the J&J vaccine caused a few people to develop blood clots, they were very transparent about it. The vaccine roll out was paused. Do you honestly think a vaccine that caused 300,000 vaccine injuries would be hidden? I do not think so.

[coffeebean]

Here is another opinion from a relatives daughter who is a Micro Biologist that has been working on covid from the beginning. She says the Delta variant is fiction because covid 19 is a man made alteration of a virus so all rules of mutation do not apply. It can not mutate because of the alteration of the RNA in the original virus. Covid was designed to kill everyone who contracted it but has failed miserably. There is a lot more to this but not room for it all.. The vaccine was ready is such a short time because the prime companies had already developed and patented it in advance. It was financed in part by the US but mostly by a group of the richest men who are actively trying to change America. I'm sure you can figure out most of them. The main one who is huge in the computer industry has been very vocal in his thoughts on population control. FYI this is just 2nd hand info from someone involved in the research who is much smarter than me, but food for thought and possibly explains some of the flip flopping and mystery. I am going to do more reading with a new focus. For those who poo poo anything that goes against the grain and believe anything the government, media, or elitists tell you I guess you have lived a very sheltered life or are just very gullible. Thanks for reading let the attack begin. Remember I already stated this is 2nd hand and I have no data to back it up.

Oh Lordy......another fairy tale. Spare me the details. ROTFLMAO!

[coffeebean]

How about a bruise/black and blue from the point where the needle went in to the elbow.......welt the full length of the upper arm immediately after needle withdrawn.
By the time we got home the bruise replaced the the welt.

Went to the ER and it was diagnosed as a hematoma, not to worry, it will go away.
It took three months to finally "go away".

A very, very isolated incident most likely related to the technique (or lack of it) by the one giving the shot.

Did you say "elbow"? That is not anywhere near the supposed site of injection. Yikes!

[coffeebean]

Glad you get your flu shot. I totally advocate for flu shots for other folks that have sensitive health issues. Never had the flu and don't get the shot, but I did get the shingles shot and pneumonia shot. Had to get all kinds of shots when traveling overseas, but keep them to a minimum now. I consider vaccinations to be wonder drugs and a miracle. Why don't I get the flu shot? Never felt the need for it since I have been around folks suffering from the flu and never caught it. Maybe that will change if I ever catch the flu AND survive.Glad to see folks trying to be safe. I am not an Anti-Vaxxer, just haven't decided to get some vaccinations. My family tends to live long lives, in the 90's on average.

At least COVID deaths are down and even though the infection rate has risen, deaths from COVID are still down. That's a good thing.

Covid deaths are down because our many of our most vulnerable population are vaccinated. Declining deaths must be attributed to the vaccines.

[coffeebean]

We currently go to Mayo at least once a month for treatment and have been going to them for over 5 years. At our last visit one of the Doctors we see advised us to wear masks as things are getting worse. The Dr. was quite serious as opposed to a casual piece of advice. Within the last couple of weeks a rule has been passed at Mayo that all employees must be vaccinated. When there you must wear a mask. It is beyond selfish and uncaring to refuse to wear a mask to protect others and to refuse to get a vaccination given the level of concern by the medical world! This is not a game, it is the real world and it is too late when your in the hospital on all sorts of equipment to say you should have followed the advice. :ohdear:
Let me turn that around.......it is beyond foolish not to wear an N95 mask if you are not vaccinated or are worried that you may have a break through infection if you are vaccinated. Those who need the protection should protect THEMSELVES. Don't expect me to wear a mask to protect those who refuse to protect themselves with a vaccine. Sorry, NOT going to do it.

Having said that, I always comply with wearing a mask if an establishment or health care facility REQUIRES a mask. There must be a posted sign for me to don that mask.

[coffeebean]

Infection-enhancing anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies recognize both the original Wuhan/D614G strain and Delta variants. A potential risk for mass vaccination ?


ADE..Look Out (https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)00392-3/fulltext)

This reaction is forever...you can't go back once jabbed....watch out!

There is no evidence that ADE is caused by mRNA vaccines.

Antibody-dependent Enhancement (ADE) and Vaccines | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/antibody-dependent-enhancement-and-vaccines)

[coffeebean]

How about preliminary...

Key word is "possible".

[coffeebean]

Read it.....from Nature Mag...Very very possible yet to come.

Antibody-dependent enhancement and SARS-CoV-2 vaccines and therapies | Nature Microbiology (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5)

Very important line in the conclusion.......However, clinical data has not yet fully established a role for ADE in human COVID-19 pathology.

[Escape Artist]

There is no evidence that ADE is caused by mRNA vaccines.

Antibody-dependent Enhancement (ADE) and Vaccines | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/antibody-dependent-enhancement-and-vaccines)

How can they know yet? Only time will tell. I think the picture will become clearer once booster shots are administered in the future with new/different spike protein.

[coffeebean]

How can they know yet? Only time will tell. I think the picture will become clearer once booster shots are administered in the future with new/different spike protein.

How many millions of people have been vaccinated with mRNA vaccines world wide so far? That should be an excellent indication if ADE were a problem which it is not.

[drducat]

How many millions of people have been vaccinated with mRNA vaccines world wide so far? That should be an excellent indication if ADE were a problem which it is not.

Cold season has not began, Boosters have not began and what is putting the vaccinated in the hospital with Covid19 or???

All we need is a multi protein vaccine or a good early treatment is what is needed......stay safe!

[Bill14564]

Cold season has not began, ...
The fall cold season has not begun in the US but the vaccines spanned the spring cold season and the summer cold season. Plus, many colds do not respect their season and occur throughout the year.

...Boosters have not began ...
But they have. Not officially, but many have been going back for third or more doses unofficially.

...and what is putting the vaccinated in the hospital with Covid19 or???...
I imagine Covid is putting vaccinated people in the hospital with Covid. No vaccine is 100% effective. The efficacy of the vaccine (95% in the case of Pfizer) was determined by counting the number of vaccinated individuals who became sick during the trials. Since vaccinations began, only 8,054 vaccinated individuals have been hospitalized with Covid and only 1,587 have died; more than that many unvaccinated people have died since this thread began.

All we need is a multi protein vaccine or a good early treatment is what is needed......stay safe!
What we need is to stop raising baseless concerns in an attempt to scare people away from the vaccine. The more who get vaccinated, the fewer who get sick and the fewer who die.

[MDLNB]

Covid deaths are down because our many of our most vulnerable population are vaccinated. Declining deaths must be attributed to the vaccines.


Duh, did I say different? And yet some on here are saying that the deaths are on the increase and want everyone to panic.

[Bill14564]

Duh, did I say different? And yet some on here are saying that the deaths are on the increase and want everyone to panic.

Assuming you are referring to me.....

Deaths are on the increase - I've provided five sources. Can you provide two that say otherwise?

No one needs to panic but many need to go get vaccinated.

[PennBF]

If it weren't so serious a subject it would be a comedy to think of those who say there is no proof of the long term effects of being vaccinated therefore they ignore the need to get vaccinated HOWEVER they ignore the impact of the short term effect if you get the virus, like you die or are sick for a long period of time with a variety of ills. As they say you can't make this stuff up! Hey, wait. How about those who refuse to wear a mask and haven't because it is uncomfortable. Lets consider how uncomfortable it is lying in a bed in ICU in the hospital while trying to get your breath. Of course there is some unsavory things going on like overcharging, mid level Doctors acting like experts, the demand of a mask to enter a business, etc. Ahh, some of the above are getting back at them by not wearing a mask and not getting vaccinated. Their answer is to potentially die to get even. These are the same people who were acting out, crying, etc in the first grade when getting there vaccination and are fearful. Some may go so far as to smoke pot or use some other drug to escape life in general!:ho:

[Bay Kid]

Want to help get everyone vaccinated just require vaccination before you get your welfare checks. Vaccinations are free too.

[ThirdOfFive]

If it weren't so serious a subject it would be a comedy to think of those who say there is no proof of the long term effects of being vaccinated therefore they ignore the need to get vaccinated HOWEVER they ignore the impact of the short term effect if you get the virus, like you die or are sick for a long period of time with a variety of ills. As they say you can't make this stuff up! Hey, wait. How about those who refuse to wear a mask and haven't because it is uncomfortable. Lets consider how uncomfortable it is lying in a bed in ICU in the hospital while trying to get your breath. Of course there is some unsavory things going on like overcharging, mid level Doctors acting like experts, the demand of a mask to enter a business, etc. Ahh, some of the above are getting back at them by not wearing a mask and not getting vaccinated. Their answer is to potentially die to get even. These are the same people who were acting out, crying, etc in the first grade when getting there vaccination and are fearful. Some may go so far as to smoke pot or use some other drug to escape life in general!:ho:
When COVID first came on the scene, my wife and I made the decision to actually LIVE our lives, not just to keep drawing breath while huddled behind some door, or mask, or whatever. We lived in Minnesota at the time and the panic hit full-bore up there. We wore masks where we were required to do so; places like the dentist waiting area, our family doctor's office, unavoidable government offices, etc. Otherwise, no. I have severe asthma as well as a coronary artery condition so wearing a mask is problematic for me; businesses up there recognized that fact and made exceptions for those of us with such conditions, so I rarely wore a mask even at the height of the original breakout. Moving to Florida last fall made mandated mask-wearing moot. My wife and I both had COVID. Not particularly fun but not the bubonic plague - level affliction one sort of suspected when reading the daily hype in local media. I've since had the vaccination; not because I particularly fear the medical consequences if I don't but because my family lives in Minnesota and there is always a chance that this-or-that state might start requiring proof of vaccination, and I guarantee that Minnesota would be one of the first to do that. My wife chose not to get the vaccination.

Bottom line: we've lived a very full life since the outbreak of the disease, to date. And we haven't regretted one minute of it. It is far better than to live in fear.

People are free to do whatever they think they should do to protect themselves from COVID. Wear masks, get vaccinations, don't touch anything in a public place without wearing gloves, disinfect your grocery cart handles, etc. etc. Hell, they can wear full-body condoms for all I care. But no one is going to tell me that must do similar things, or anything at all, because THEY fear that I may have the bug. Because I won't.

My liberty does not stop, where their fear begins.

[LateBoomer]

To those who seemed obsessed on this forum with COVID - hide in your houses. The rest of us are getting on with our lives

[graciegirl]

To those who seemed obsessed on this forum with COVID - hide in your houses. The rest of us are getting on with our lives

Most of us have had both vaccines. The people who live in The Villages, almost eight out of ten are vaccinated against Covid-19. Most of us are aware of a large wave of Covid Delta Variant and a lot of hospitalizations from people who were not vaccinated.

Most of us, because we are vaccinated are not OBSESSED.

We are aware that people can get sick, but not nearly as bad, as those unvaccinated.

[Wyseguy]

Most of us have had both vaccines. The people who live in The Villages, almost eight out of ten are vaccinated against Covid-19. Most of us are aware of a large wave of Covid Delta Variant and a lot of hospitalizations from people who were not vaccinated.

Most of us, because we are vaccinated are not OBSESSED.

We are aware that people can get sick, but not nearly as bad, as those unvaccinated.

My experience tells me otherwise. I see those already vaccinated the most likely to isolate themselves, continue to wear masks, and in many states demand shutdowns. Millions of Americans forced not to work. Millions losing health insurance, income, jobs, homes. I wonder how gung ho those collecting social security and covered by medicare would be is they were asked to give up those for a year plus. WHo is the most selfish? I wonder.

[Bill14564]

My experience tells me otherwise. I see those already vaccinated the most likely to isolate themselves, continue to wear masks, and in many states demand shutdowns. Millions of Americans forced not to work. Millions losing health insurance, income, jobs, homes. I wonder how gung ho those collecting social security and covered by medicare would be is they were asked to give up those for a year plus. WHo is the most selfish? I wonder.


Good question. Let's compare:

I don't want to be vaccinated and you can't make me. I am going to live my life regardless of Covid and I'm not going to wear your face diaper. I don't care who I infect, they can wear the face diaper or stay home if they are afraid. I don't care who dies, my god-given immune system will protect me. I demand my freedom to go where I want and not worry about other people and I demand that businesses accommodate me.

OR

I know there is a chance that everyone, vaccinated or not, can carry and pass the virus. The possibility is much less for those of us like me who are vaccinated but you never know. Wearing a mask is annoying but if it keeps even one person from dying then it's worth it to me. While I won't get sick due to my vaccination there are a large number of people who haven't been vaccinated and are filling the hospitals right now. Sure, they made their own bed but that bed they are lying in is not available for the heart attack victim or car crash survivor. I may be inconvenienced by mask wearing and limited seating but keeping the hospitals available and saving lives is worth some inconvenience.

Who is the most selfish?

(Yes, restrictions and lockdowns come with a cost but sickness and death is also a cost. Finding an acceptable balance may be impossible)

[MDLNB]

If it weren't so serious a subject it would be a comedy to think of those who say there is no proof of the long term effects of being vaccinated therefore they ignore the need to get vaccinated HOWEVER they ignore the impact of the short term effect if you get the virus, like you die or are sick for a long period of time with a variety of ills. As they say you can't make this stuff up! Hey, wait. How about those who refuse to wear a mask and haven't because it is uncomfortable. Lets consider how uncomfortable it is lying in a bed in ICU in the hospital while trying to get your breath. Of course there is some unsavory things going on like overcharging, mid level Doctors acting like experts, the demand of a mask to enter a business, etc. Ahh, some of the above are getting back at them by not wearing a mask and not getting vaccinated. Their answer is to potentially die to get even. These are the same people who were acting out, crying, etc in the first grade when getting there vaccination and are fearful. Some may go so far as to smoke pot or use some other drug to escape life in general!:ho:


I can see by the post that you are not really attempting to convince anyone.

[MDLNB]

There does not seem to be much convincing going on. But, there is a lot of attempts to justify on here. If you have your vaccination and you are on here attempting to bully folks into getting the vaccination, all you are doing is alienating them. There is really a big difference between saying "I got my vaccination for this reason" and "you must get this vaccination or you are a UN-patriotic dirtbag." At least be honest and admit that you have doubts about the vaccination, but you are hoping that if you can force others to join your lifeboat, then if it sinks you can all sink together.
I don't worry about whether or not my neighbor gets the shots. They know that it is available and free. It's their choice and it won't effect me whatsoever either way. Whether or not the vaccination works doesn't matter much once you get the shots. You have already made your choice. Those that do not get the vaccination KNOW that that "IF" does not pertain to them. If they are exposed it is a matter of whether or not they are infected and then if they are infected whether or not they will be hospitalized and then whether or not they will DIE. Those with the vaccination, SHOULD know that if they are exposed, they have less chance of being infected and if they are have less chance of being hospitalized and if they are hospitalize, have a much better chance of living through the infection. The only negative to getting the vaccination is IF-IF-IF there are any long term effects from the serum. And in that case, as old as we are how likely are they going to catch up to us before our expiration date.
It's your choice whether or not to get the vaccination. It won't effect me and I do not care. But the odds of survival are more in your favor IF you are vaccinated than if you are not. Then again, if you are never around anyone infected you will never have to worry about the odds. On the other hand, how can you tell whether or not your neighbor has the Covid or not? You can't.

[PennBF]

At one time there was a program on TV that took young people on tour of some jails and then had them taught some lessons regarding the criminal life they were involved in. It is too bad there is no program to take the person' who demand the right to not get vaccinated or wear a mask anywhere, on tour of a Covid-19 ICU in a hospital and see what it means to be exposed to and get the virus or spread the illness to others. Also ask them to volunteer to work on the ICU along side a medical person and feel what its like to experience the risks of serving in this ward. They will leave skid marks getting away and just maybe they will get the message as to how stupid it is to risk your life because you are afraid.:ohdear:

[MDLNB]

At one time there was a program on TV that took young people on tour of some jails and then had them taught some lessons regarding the criminal life they were involved in. It is too bad there is no program to take the person' who demand the right to not get vaccinated or wear a mask anywhere, on tour of a Covid-19 ICU in a hospital and see what it means to be exposed to and get the virus or spread the illness to others. Also ask them to volunteer to work on the ICU along side a medical person and feel what its like to experience the risks of serving in this ward. They will leave skid marks getting away and just maybe they will get the message as to how stupid it is to risk your life because you are afraid.:ohdear:


Once again, that ain't convincing anyone to get the vaccination. Some folks do NOT believe they are being "afraid." Some folks think that FOOLS are not afraid either.

[Aces4]

At one time there was a program on TV that took young people on tour of some jails and then had them taught some lessons regarding the criminal life they were involved in. It is too bad there is no program to take the person' who demand the right to not get vaccinated or wear a mask anywhere, on tour of a Covid-19 ICU in a hospital and see what it means to be exposed to and get the virus or spread the illness to others. Also ask them to volunteer to work on the ICU along side a medical person and feel what its like to experience the risks of serving in this ward. They will leave skid marks getting away and just maybe they will get the message as to how stupid it is to risk your life because you are afraid.:ohdear:



Should the vaccinated also be marched past the hospitalized, fully vaccinated who are struggling with covid like TOTV’s own Winston Boogie? As Malone stated in his articles, we need to focus further on treatment when covid is contracted. It doesn’t appear this viral beast is on it’s way out very soon even if every single human and animal capable of acquiring the virus was vaccinated.

Winston, hoping for your release from the hospital shortly and that your recovery is complete.