COVID Breakthrough Rates

[msu69er]

Here's what you need to know about COVID-19 breakthrough infections | Live Science (https://www.livescience.com/what-are-breakthrough-covid-infections.html?utm_source=SmartBrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=368B3745-DDE0-4A69-A2E8-62503D85375D&utm_content=0067C9F4-67C7-4C65-8D5E-766F72A2F092&utm_term=230e751a-f41c-4308-899c-0237e4832a19)

Finally, some numbers on breakthrough rates of COVID in the new surge of cases. My takeaways: (1) Less than 10% of new COVID cases are breakthrough, (2) if fully vaccinated you have a 1 in 20,000 chance of needing to be hospitalized if you get COVID, (3) if you are fully vaccinated you have a 1 in 7 million chance of dying from COVID, and (4) if you are not vaccinated you could be an incubator for more deadly variants of COVID. Bottom line: Vaccination is the best way to stay safe from COVID and prevent it’s possible future spread.

[golfing eagles]

Here's what you need to know about COVID-19 breakthrough infections | Live Science (https://www.livescience.com/what-are-breakthrough-covid-infections.html?utm_source=SmartBrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=368B3745-DDE0-4A69-A2E8-62503D85375D&utm_content=0067C9F4-67C7-4C65-8D5E-766F72A2F092&utm_term=230e751a-f41c-4308-899c-0237e4832a19)

Finally, some numbers on breakthrough rates of COVID in the new surge of cases. My takeaways: (1) Less than 10% of new COVID cases are breakthrough, (2) if fully vaccinated you have a 1 in 20,000 chance of needing to be hospitalized if you get COVID, (3) if you are fully vaccinated you have a 1 in 7 million chance of dying from COVID, and (4) if you are not vaccinated you could be an incubator for more deadly variants of COVID. Bottom line: Vaccination is the best way to stay safe from COVID and prevent it’s possible future spread.

That would be encouraging, BUT.......your source is:

"Live Science is supported by its audience. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Learn more"

[TSO/ISPF]

Here's what you need to know about COVID-19 breakthrough infections | Live Science (https://www.livescience.com/what-are-breakthrough-covid-infections.html?utm_source=SmartBrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=368B3745-DDE0-4A69-A2E8-62503D85375D&utm_content=0067C9F4-67C7-4C65-8D5E-766F72A2F092&utm_term=230e751a-f41c-4308-899c-0237e4832a19)

Finally, some numbers on breakthrough rates of COVID in the new surge of cases. My takeaways: (1) Less than 10% of new COVID cases are breakthrough, (2) if fully vaccinated you have a 1 in 20,000 chance of needing to be hospitalized if you get COVID, (3) if you are fully vaccinated you have a 1 in 7 million chance of dying from COVID, and (4) if you are not vaccinated you could be an incubator for more deadly variants of COVID. Bottom line: Vaccination is the best way to stay safe from COVID and prevent it’s possible future spread.

Given the time it takes the shots to take affect, if you haven't been vaccinated you had better get it done or hope this is all just a hoax. Too bad for the less than 12 age group that have to suffer foolish adults and adolescents over 12. Time will tell.

[Aces4]

Given the time it takes the shots to take affect, if you haven't been vaccinated you had better get it done or hope this is all just a hoax. Too bad for the less than 12 age group that have to suffer foolish adults and adolescents over 12. Time will tell.

Apparently, someone didn’t get the memo. Everyone can carry and spread covid 19, even the vaccinated. Covid can also break through and infect the vaccinated and there is no stopping that virus at this time.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I’m fully vaccinated and am on day 12 in the hospital. None of these numbers matter when it happens to you.

What are “breakout “ cases by the way.?

[La lamy]

I’m fully vaccinated and am on day 12 in the hospital. None of these numbers matter when it happens to you.

What are “breakout “ cases by the way.?

So sorry to hear you have been in the hospital for so long. I don't know if you were serious with your "breakout" question. In case you were, it'e called "Breakthrough" and it's vaccinated people that get sick with Covid. I wish you fast healing.

[TSO/ISPF]

Apparently, someone didn’t get the memo. Everyone can carry and spread covid 19, even the vaccinated. Covid can also break through and infect the vaccinated and there is no stopping that virus at this time.

The vast majority of people being hospitalized are unvaccinated. I think that memo has been making the rounds. Yes, there are cases of the vaccinated getting sick but hopefully not too sick.

[Velvet]

I’m fully vaccinated and am on day 12 in the hospital. None of these numbers matter when it happens to you.

What are “breakout “ cases by the way.?

Sound like it was an annus horriblis these last 12 months for you. Get better soon!

[Bjeanj]

I’m fully vaccinated and am on day 12 in the hospital. None of these numbers matter when it happens to you.

What are “breakout “ cases by the way.?
That’s awful! Hope you are on your way to full recovery.

[Wyseguy]

One of the biggest contributors to the concern and fear amongst those who are unvaccinated (I believe it is over 50% who have not been fully vaccinated) is the censorship. People ask, "Why are they not allowing doctors with different views to debate". Every time the CDC flips on a topic, especially topics where they suspended peoples accounts for posting on said topic, they create greater mistrust.

Stop with the censorship already. Let people have access to all of the facts. Do you really believe by only allowing your view, people will magically agree with you.?

[Wyseguy]

Given the time it takes the shots to take affect, if you haven't been vaccinated you had better get it done or hope this is all just a hoax. Too bad for the less than 12 age group that have to suffer foolish adults and adolescents over 12. Time will tell.

The study I read from the UK (21% breakthrough) and the one from the CDC (20%) seem to show double the breakthrough cases.

[Velvet]

One of the biggest contributors to the concern and fear amongst those who are unvaccinated (I believe it is over 50% who have not been fully vaccinated) is the censorship. People ask, "Why are they not allowing doctors with different views to debate". Every time the CDC flips on a topic, especially topics where they suspended peoples accounts for posting on said topic, they create greater mistrust.

Stop with the censorship already. Let people have access to all of the facts. Do you really believe by only allowing your view, people will magically agree with you.?

The CDC is updating their guidance given new circumstances. They try to give their best advice given what they know NOW as things develop. They are not stuck in the mud. It is not the CDC that changes, in my opinion, it is the circumstances now, that change.

[Aces4]

The vast majority of people being hospitalized are unvaccinated. I think that memo has been making the rounds. Yes, there are cases of the vaccinated getting sick but hopefully not too sick.


Too sick? Did you just read fully vaccinated Winston Boogie’s report on this thread about his long hospitalization with covid?

Wishing him a full recovery and return to good health!

[Gpsma]

I thank the OP for making another covid thread

[jswirs]

The CDC is updating their guidance given new circumstances. They try to give their best advice given what they know NOW as things develop. They are not stuck in the mud. It is not the CDC that changes, in my opinion, it is the circumstances now, that change.
Understood. BUT, when these officials make a statement, such as, "If you get vaccinated you do not need to wear a mask", they need to add a disclaimer. Such as "If you get vaccinated you do not need to wear a mask, according to the present information we have. If / when new information comes to light, mask requirements may change".
This is partly the cause of mistrust.

[golfing eagles]

Understood. BUT, when these officials make a statement, such as, "If you get vaccinated you do not need to wear a mask", they need to add a disclaimer. Such as "If you get vaccinated you do not need to wear a mask, according to the present information we have. If / when new information comes to light, mask requirements may change".
This is partly the cause of mistrust.

You mean sort of like: According to present information, schoolkids no longer need to practice hiding under their desks in the event of a Russian nuclear attack. If new info comes to light, you may need to "protect" yourself by once again hiding under your desk.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[nick demis]

Here's what you need to know about COVID-19 breakthrough infections | Live Science (https://www.livescience.com/what-are-breakthrough-covid-infections.html?utm_source=SmartBrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=368B3745-DDE0-4A69-A2E8-62503D85375D&utm_content=0067C9F4-67C7-4C65-8D5E-766F72A2F092&utm_term=230e751a-f41c-4308-899c-0237e4832a19)

Finally, some numbers on breakthrough rates of COVID in the new surge of cases. My takeaways: (1) Less than 10% of new COVID cases are breakthrough, (2) if fully vaccinated you have a 1 in 20,000 chance of needing to be hospitalized if you get COVID, (3) if you are fully vaccinated you have a 1 in 7 million chance of dying from COVID, and (4) if you are not vaccinated you could be an incubator for more deadly variants of COVID. Bottom line: Vaccination is the best way to stay safe from COVID and prevent it’s possible future spread.

I don't believe anything the so called experts say anymore.

[glsatterlee]

A study from Emory University Vaccine Center

People who have recovered from COVID-19 retain broad and effective longer-term immunity to the disease, according to a new study.

In following the patients for months, researchers got a more nuanced view of how the immune system responds to COVID-19 infection. The picture that emerges indicates that the body’s defense shield not only produces an array of neutralizing antibodies but activates certain T and B cells to establish immune memory, offering more sustained defenses against reinfection.
The study suggests that patients who survived COVID-19 are likely to also possess protective immunity even against some SARS-CoV-2 variants.

“We saw that antibody responses, especially IgG antibodies, were not only durable in the vast majority of patients but decayed at a slower rate than previously estimated, which suggests that patients are generating longer-lived plasma cells that can neutralize the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.”

[kendi]

The CDC is updating their guidance given new circumstances. They try to give their best advice given what they know NOW as things develop. They are not stuck in the mud. It is not the CDC that changes, in my opinion, it is the circumstances now, that change.

The CDC jumps to conclusions too quickly. It’s not unusual for them to base their “opinion” on too few studies that are often too small to be considered reliable. Good science is not practiced well by many. But just use the words “study” or “science” and people easily swallow it as an undeniable fact.

[Pat2015]

I’m fully vaccinated and am on day 12 in the hospital. None of these numbers matter when it happens to you.

What are “breakout “ cases by the way.?
I have 5 vaccinated friends in TV that have Covid right now. Fortunately no hospitalizations. Hope you get well soon!

[kendi]

A study from Emory University Vaccine Center

People who have recovered from COVID-19 retain broad and effective longer-term immunity to the disease, according to a new study.

In following the patients for months, researchers got a more nuanced view of how the immune system responds to COVID-19 infection. The picture that emerges indicates that the body’s defense shield not only produces an array of neutralizing antibodies but activates certain T and B cells to establish immune memory, offering more sustained defenses against reinfection.
The study suggests that patients who survived COVID-19 are likely to also possess protective immunity even against some SARS-CoV-2 variants.

“We saw that antibody responses, especially IgG antibodies, were not only durable in the vast majority of patients but decayed at a slower rate than previously estimated, which suggests that patients are generating longer-lived plasma cells that can neutralize the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.”

I’ve read similar. I’ve also read that it’s been a well known fact for decades that it’s the vaccinated that cause a virus to mutate. The mutation is an attempt to survive the change in the host.

[Susan1717]

I am not seeing anything about percentages of people that have not been vaccinated but had Covid, and still have very high antibodies. I get tested for antibodies every three months and they are still extremely high. Every one that I know of in my category that has been exposed to Covid has not gotten it. My doctor is advising me not to get vaccinated as long as my antibodies are still so high. A good friend had Bell’s palsy years ago and her doctor told her she absolutely cannot get vaccinated or it will trigger it back again. Again, I would like to see statistics regarding natural immunity.

[graciegirl]

I don't believe anything the so called experts say anymore.

I think that the CDC, The Surgeon General, and the FDA are reacting to information as it becomes available to them. It is childish to expect that just because they are a group of ethical scientists whose job it is to protect us, that they will have concrete information in a fast changing situation. First, it is almost impossible to trust local and regional information with all kinds of different criteria and political issues.

I am indeed tired of people calling me fearful, for trying to avoid getting sick by being vaccinated and wearing a mask when I think that their fear makes them swallow a bunch of crap from people without any credentials at all. They believe people from their church or who vote like they do.

If you take the time and check out valid sources, you will get closer to the truth. Start with your own PCP.

[Bill14564]

I am not seeing anything about percentages of people that have not been vaccinated but had Covid, and still have very high antibodies. I get tested for antibodies every three months and they are still extremely high. Every one that I know of in my category that has been exposed to Covid has not gotten it. My doctor is advising me not to get vaccinated as long as my antibodies are still so high. A good friend had Bell’s palsy years ago and her doctor told her she absolutely cannot get vaccinated or it will trigger it back again. Again, I would like to see statistics regarding natural immunity.

Everyone's case is different and the details matter but I personally know someone who had Bell's Palsy years ago and was vaccinated and has had no problems at all.

[msu69er]

I started this thread to share some information I found regarding COVID vaccine effectiveness.

The MSM inundates us with the latest numbers of COVID infections, hospitalizations, and deaths ad nauseam. But they don’t report the percentage of unvaccinated in those numbers. If they did, we would have some real-world data about the effectiveness of the vaccines.

Only posts #18 and #22 added any useful information to the “discusssion”. All other replies were completely off-point.

Moderator, it’s time to close this post.

[Spalumbos62]

Apparently, someone didn’t get the memo. Everyone can carry and spread covid 19, even the vaccinated. Covid can also break through and infect the vaccinated and there is no stopping that virus at this time.


That is what the original post said.

[Spalumbos62]

I’m fully vaccinated and am on day 12 in the hospital. None of these numbers matter when it happens to you.

What are “breakout “ cases by the way.?


Get well soon! Please reach down deep inside and muster up all the energy and positive thoughts you possibly can and get yourself home. Stay in touch we are all thinking of you.

[Altavia]

I think that the CDC, The Surgeon General, and the FDA are reacting to information as it becomes available to them. It is childish to expect that just because they are a group of ethical scientists whose job it is to protect us, that they will have concrete information in a fast changing situation. First, it is almost impossible to trust local and regional information with all kinds of different criteria and political issues.

I am indeed tired of people calling me fearful, for trying to avoid getting sick by being vaccinated and wearing a mask when I think that their fear makes them swallow a bunch of crap from people without any credentials at all. They believe people from their church or who vote like they do.

If you take the time and check out valid sources, you will get closer to the truth. Start with your own PCP.

So many unknown unknowns with this virus it seems destined to humble everyone.

The Delta varient is a new story. Viral loads are 1,000 times higher which is why it is more infectious.

The viral loads in the throats of vaccinated persons who become infected with delta rises at identical rates as in unvaccinated persons, but only for the first few days. After five days or so, the viral loads in the vaccinated person start to quickly drop whereas those in the unvaccinated person persist. This key set of observations is important for several reasons relating to vaccinated persons serving as vectors for spread *

So those vaccinated can more easily transmit Delta asymptomaticly.

I would be especially dilligent to protect others (isolate/mask) if starting to feel that scratchy throat pre-cold state.

* What we now know about how to fight the delta variant of COVID | Column (https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2021/08/10/what-we-now-know-about-how-to-fight-the-delta-variant-of-covid-column/)

[dreinerx1]

I am not seeing anything about percentages of people that have not been vaccinated but had Covid, and still have very high antibodies. I get tested for antibodies every three months and they are still extremely high. Every one that I know of in my category that has been exposed to Covid has not gotten it. My doctor is advising me not to get vaccinated as long as my antibodies are still so high. A good friend had Bell’s palsy years ago and her doctor told her she absolutely cannot get vaccinated or it will trigger it back again. Again, I would like to see statistics regarding natural immunity.
The CDC guidelines for people like us is to get the vaccine. Doesn't make since does it, they aren't following the science.

[jswirs]

You mean sort of like: According to present information, schoolkids no longer need to practice hiding under their desks in the event of a Russian nuclear attack. If new info comes to light, you may need to "protect" yourself by once again hiding under your desk.:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Yes, and thank you very much for proving my point. If there was a sudden nuclear attack, I would hope our teaching staff would advise all students to take whatever cover they could, however ineffective that cover may be.
Our medical community is guilty of "Failure to communicate" , or, otherwise known as , "Lying by omission".

[jimjamuser]

I started this thread to share some information I found regarding COVID vaccine effectiveness.

The MSM inundates us with the latest numbers of COVID infections, hospitalizations, and deaths ad nauseam. But they don’t report the percentage of unvaccinated in those numbers. If they did, we would have some real-world data about the effectiveness of the vaccines.

Only posts #18 and #22 added any useful information to the “discusssion”. All other replies were completely off-point.

Moderator, it’s time to close this post.
This post asks about statistics about the UNvaccinated. I did not think that there was much question about that. But, I can give my best opinion........I have heard many, MANY times on MANY news channels that at MANY hospitals the CV patients with life-threatening problems are somewhere between 90% and 97% UNvaccinated. It is happening that way in Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and others. What I heard about Florida yesterday is that 75% of Fl. hospitals are suffering from STAFF SHORTAGES. Many expert Doctors on news programs have said that the US has a Pandemic of the UNvaccinated. I hope this helps clear things up!

[jimjamuser]

Yes, and thank you very much for proving my point. If there was a sudden nuclear attack, I would hope our teaching staff would advise all students to take whatever cover they could, however ineffective that cover may be.
Our medical community is guilty of "Failure to communicate" , or, otherwise known as , "Lying by omission".
97% of US medical Doctors ARE vaccinated. That is a statement that they are making that I will TRUST.

[tischma]

I’m fully vaccinated and am on day 12 in the hospital. None of these numbers matter when it happens to you.

What are “breakout “ cases by the way.?

So sorry to hear this—Wishing you a rapid recovery!

[jswirs]

In your (unsubstantiated) OPINION.
No, what I said is in my PRAGMATIC opinion.

[waterflower]

lol....PCR test were recalled by the FDA...fake

[glsatterlee]

There are two types of unvaccinated, those who have not caught the virus, and those who already have caught the virus.

Dr. Peter Weiss, a clinical professor at the School of Medicine at UCLA for 30 years, and was the National Health Care Advisor for Sen. John McCain’s presidential campaign.

He wrote a research paper on N95 masks that was published in 2007 in the American Journal of Public health.

He states that for an N 95 mask to be effective it has to be form fitted. Surgical masks are made of three plied layers of synthetic microfibers an extra fine synthetic fibers which block out much larger particles but do a poor job of blocking the much smaller particles associated with COVID-19 viral transmission. The COVID-19 virus is extremely small 60–140 nanometers, which is 1/thousandths of a micron. The vast majority of COVID-19 is spread in much much smaller aerosol spray of 1/1000 of a micron. These small particles can penetrate deeper into the lungs. We don’t wear them for viral protection.

He goes on to state even though I am a believer in the vaccine, I understand those who aren’t and respect the right of a healthy 18 year old woman to decline receiving it. For the 36 million people who have had Covid, there’s no need for them to get the vaccine, since they have natural immunity. For how long, we don’t know, but research suggests durable immunity. It’s simple to test and find out if you still have antibodies against COVID-19. (I, myself, give blood regularly that shows that my antibodies are still with me after eight months. It has also been showed that people who have survived the SARS-2 from years ago, which COVID-19 is, still have antibodies 17 years later.)

[merrymini]

Given the time it takes the shots to take affect, if you haven't been vaccinated you had better get it done or hope this is all just a hoax. Too bad for the less than 12 age group that have to suffer foolish adults and adolescents over 12. Time will tell.

Facts state that kids are not at high risk at all.

[golfing eagles]

Nothing of what you stated is true, including "Maybe". Is this an accurate representation of our medical community? (Also, I find the addition of "Smilies" to be quite elementary).

Which part?

Your desk is wooden?
Your opinion is pragmatic (maybe)?
I'll ride it out in Cheyenne Mountain?

And as I've previously stated, I love my little rolling laughing men---they're not going anywhere:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

And just to review, the original claim you made referred to the CDC changing from the vaccinated need not wear a mask to the current policy. This is a moving target, and delta came along as well. You should be thankful, not "mistrustful" that they have your back. My analogy, which may have been over your head, was to show that a disclaimer about what the future might bring is actually pretty silly.

Understand now???:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Roron123]

The flu has mysteriously disappeared hmm 🤔 I wonder why?


QUOTE=msu69er;1990047]Here's what you need to know about COVID-19 breakthrough infections | Live Science (https://www.livescience.com/what-are-breakthrough-covid-infections.html?utm_source=SmartBrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=368B3745-DDE0-4A69-A2E8-62503D85375D&utm_content=0067C9F4-67C7-4C65-8D5E-766F72A2F092&utm_term=230e751a-f41c-4308-899c-0237e4832a19)

Finally, some numbers on breakthrough rates of COVID in the new surge of cases. My takeaways: (1) Less than 10% of new COVID cases are breakthrough, (2) if fully vaccinated you have a 1 in 20,000 chance of needing to be hospitalized if you get COVID, (3) if you are fully vaccinated you have a 1 in 7 million chance of dying from COVID, and (4) if you are not vaccinated you could be an incubator for more deadly variants of COVID. Bottom line: Vaccination is the best way to stay safe from COVID and prevent it’s possible future spread.[/QUOTE]

[jswirs]

Which part?

Your desk is wooden?
Your opinion is pragmatic (maybe)?
I'll ride it out in Cheyenne Mountain?

And as I've previously stated, I love my little rolling laughing men---they're not going anywhere:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
Every part. And I thank you for proving my point. Over and out, I have better uses for my time. I graduated from elementary school many years ago.

[golfing eagles]

Every part. And I thank you for proving my point. Over and out, I have better uses for my time. I graduated from elementary school many years ago.

Maybe. I'm not convinced:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Koapaka]

A little something on the subject for members of both very divided camps....IF you have done the 23&Me DNA study, go to your account and it will show you based on your DNA the "likelihood" of requiring hospitalization if you contract COVID. Of course, the variants may change statistics....but then so is everyone else who is trying to use them to make the point they want to make so why not?

[Altavia]

///

[jswirs]

Which part?

Your desk is wooden?
Your opinion is pragmatic (maybe)?
I'll ride it out in Cheyenne Mountain?

And as I've previously stated, I love my little rolling laughing men---they're not going anywhere:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

And just to review, the original claim you made referred to the CDC changing from the vaccinated need not wear a mask to the current policy. This is a moving target, and delta came along as well. You should be thankful, not "mistrustful" that they have your back. My analogy, which may have been over your head, was to show that a disclaimer about what the future might bring is actually pretty silly.

Understand now???:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Yes, I do understand now, and thank you again for removing any doubt. Because what I understand, through these replies, is that we have all grown older, but not all of us have grown up.

[golfing eagles]

Yes, I do understand now, and thank you again for removing any doubt. Because what I understand, through these replies, is that we have all grown older, but not all of us have grown up.

Yep, that must be it.
I knew you'd be back:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Spalumbos62]

Yep, that must be it.
I knew you'd be back:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:



Ok...you guys....seriously, I have a question....now they are saying we need a booster, which I am fine with....but I just got notice from CVS that flu shots will be ready anyday....what do you think? Get both?...just the booster? Any input?

[patfla06]

Ok...you guys....seriously, I have a question....now they are saying we need a booster, which I am fine with....but I just got notice from CVS that flu shots will be ready anyday....what do you think? Get both?...just the booster? Any input?

I would find out from my doctor if you need to space out the flu shot from the 3rd vaccine.

[golfing eagles]

Ok...you guys....seriously, I have a question....now they are saying we need a booster, which I am fine with....but I just got notice from CVS that flu shots will be ready anyday....what do you think? Get both?...just the booster? Any input?

I'll just say this----I never give specific professional advice on this forum. However, personally, I plan to get both shots. Since my 2nd COVID vaccine was 5/3, I don't have to think about it until January, while I'll get the flu shot in September. Other people may have a different time frame.

[Altavia]

Ok...you guys....seriously, I have a question....now they are saying we need a booster, which I am fine with....but I just got notice from CVS that flu shots will be ready anyday....what do you think? Get both?...just the booster? Any input?

Good question

I was advised by the Doc during the clinical trial to wait 30 days between vaccines.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser View Post
97% of US medical Doctors ARE vaccinated. That is a statement that they are making that I will TRUST.

NOT TRUE!
You can continue to post this lie, but it’s still NOT TRUE!!

[edited]. jimjamuser has posted something with an easily Googled claim. So I used the Google and found:

AMA survey shows over 96% of doctors fully vaccinated against COVID-19 | American Medical Association (https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-survey-shows-over-96-doctors-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19)

This is a survey report from early June being done by the AMA of practicing doctors in the USA using the WebMD physician panel. It was not a random survey, it was not Gallup quality. But it is the best data available. You might argue that those physicians who participate in a WebMD panel are better at keeping up to date on new information, or not.

The result of their survey which was 1/2 primary care and 1/2 specialists was that per the press release

AMA survey shows over 96% of doctors fully vaccinated against COVID-19


So I think, unless you have newer better information with a link, jim's statement looks pretty good. I will allow that over 96% does not mean 97%. It could be 96.1% But being that it was done in early June, the number can only have gone up since then.

In the interest in civility, it would be nice to see someone, just once, come online and apologize for calling someone a [edited].

[Altavia]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser View Post
97% of US medical Doctors ARE vaccinated. That is a statement that they are making that I will TRUST.



Swoop, using CAPS doesn't make you right. jimjamuser has posted something with an easily Googled claim. So I used the Google and found:

AMA survey shows over 96% of doctors fully vaccinated against COVID-19 | American Medical Association (https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-survey-shows-over-96-doctors-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19)

This is a survey report from early June being done by the AMA of practicing doctors in the USA using the WebMD physician panel. It was not a random survey, it was not Gallup quality. But it is the best data available. You might argue that those physicians who participate in a WebMD panel are better at keeping up to date on new information, or not.

The result of their survey which was 1/2 primary care and 1/2 specialists was that per the press release

AMA survey shows over 96% of doctors fully vaccinated against COVID-19


So I think, unless you have newer better information with a link, jim's statement looks pretty good. I will allow that over 96% does not mean 97%. It could be 96.1% But being that it was done in early June, the number can only have gone up since then.

In the interest in civility, it would be nice to see someone, just once, come online and apologize for calling someone a liar.

Could be some people confuse this with "medical workers" which tends to follow the general population.

Huge Number of Hospital Workers Still Unvaccinated (https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210628/huge-number-of-hospital-workers)

"An ongoing monthly survey of more than 1.9 million U.S. Facebook users led by researchers at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh recently looked at vaccine hesitancy by occupation. It revealed a spectrum of hesitancy among health care workers corresponding to income and education, ranging from a low of 9% among pharmacists to highs of 20%-23% among nursing aides and emergency medical technicians. About 12% of registered nurses and doctors admitted to being hesitant to get a shot."

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser View Post
97% of US medical Doctors ARE vaccinated. That is a statement that they are making that I will TRUST.



Swoop, using CAPS doesn't make you right. jimjamuser has posted something with an easily Googled claim. So I used the Google and found:

AMA survey shows over 96% of doctors fully vaccinated against COVID-19 | American Medical Association (https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-survey-shows-over-96-doctors-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19)

This is a survey report from early June being done by the AMA of practicing doctors in the USA using the WebMD physician panel. It was not a random survey, it was not Gallup quality. But it is the best data available. You might argue that those physicians who participate in a WebMD panel are better at keeping up to date on new information, or not.

The result of their survey which was 1/2 primary care and 1/2 specialists was that per the press release

AMA survey shows over 96% of doctors fully vaccinated against COVID-19


So I think, unless you have newer better information with a link, jim's statement looks pretty good. I will allow that over 96% does not mean 97%. It could be 96.1% But being that it was done in early June, the number can only have gone up since then.

In the interest in civility, it would be nice to see someone, just once, come online and apologize for calling someone a liar.

It was a single survey of 301 doctors, hardly representing ALL the doctors in the US…

He has constantly posted saying 97% of all doctors in the US have been vaccinated.

Even the most pro vaccine people on this forum have agreed that a single survey, of only 301 doctors, without explanation of how the survey was taken, can not be given credibility…

[newgirl]

Thank you for stating facts. What is also not being mentioned is that the vaccinated people who catch it are not getting deathly ill, and those that are have serious underlining issues that can not be part of the conversation because of hippa. If a 90 yr old who is vaccinated gets covid and dies of a heart attack, dibeties or other, the death still goes into the covid death numbers not because they died of covid, but had covid when they died.
Wearing a mask costs nothing and makes everyone around you feel safer. Why would anyone not be willing to do such a simple act if you can calm fears of those you interact with. And if you do not choose to get vaccinated and wear a mask, then please pay the full cost of your healthcare because all the people you refuse to wear a mask for, should not have to pay the rising cost of healthcare and insurance because of your selfishness.

[LianneMigiano]

Understood. BUT, when these officials make a statement, such as, "If you get vaccinated you do not need to wear a mask", they need to add a disclaimer. Such as "If you get vaccinated you do not need to wear a mask, according to the present information we have. If / when new information comes to light, mask requirements may change".
This is partly the cause of mistrust.
I just tested POSITIVE for COVID on MON - after being sick (like food poisoning would make you feel) all weekend. My husband and I have both had both shots, still wear masks and I go out very little. I thought (when the doctor suggested that I come up but stay in the car) it was rather strange. When they came out with a swab and I provided the sample, they headed inside. We waited. Shortly, they came back out and told me. I WAS SHOCKED. NOW I'M ANGRY ABOUT ALL OF THESE PEOPLE REFUSING TO WEAR MASKS! I want to cry when I think about the school teachers being exposed because of our Governor's ruling. The symptoms of this are awful... I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy...and I'm guessing my symptoms are mild because I've been vaccinated. Please, stop and think of others. The doctor almost put me in the hospital fearing dehydration issues. This thing is NO HOAX - and it's no fun, trust me.

[golfing eagles]

I just tested POSITIVE for COVID on MON - after being sick (like food poisoning would make you feel) all weekend. My husband and I have both had both shots, still wear masks and I go out very little. I thought (when the doctor suggested that I come up but stay in the car) it was rather strange. When they came out with a swab and I provided the sample, they headed inside. We waited. Shortly, they came back out and told me. I WAS SHOCKED. NOW I'M ANGRY ABOUT ALL OF THESE PEOPLE REFUSING TO WEAR MASKS! I want to cry when I think about the school teachers being exposed because of our Governor's ruling. The symptoms of this are awful... I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy...and I'm guessing my symptoms are mild because I've been vaccinated. Please, stop and think of others. The doctor almost put me in the hospital fearing dehydration issues. This thing is NO HOAX - and it's no fun, trust me.

You should be more angry over those that refuse to be vaccinated---that's where the real problem lies.

[blueash]

It was a single survey of 301 doctors, hardly representing ALL the doctors in the US…

He has constantly posted saying 97% of all doctors in the US have been vaccinated.

Even the most pro vaccine people on this forum have agreed that a single survey, of only 301 doctors, without explanation of how the survey was taken, can not be given credibility…

So your accusation that jim is misleading the reader is based on your not accepting that this survey is definitive. I agree it is a small, non-random, survey. But before you accuse jim of deceiving you need to have data which is different than what he has presented. It would be perfectly reasonable for you to say that the 97% data is questionable. But you did not say that, you wrote what you wrote accusing jim of perfidy.

I will accept the data from the survey as accurate, given the limitations of the survey, until someone can present contrary data. You have not presented contrary data. I suspect based on the body of what you have been posting that you just don't like the result of this survey. as it suggests that people who understand Covid risk and vaccine risk are overwhelmingly getting vaccines.

I can report that I know a large number of practicing physicians. All of them are vaccinated to the best of my knowledge.

[golfing eagles]

So your accusation that jim is misleading the reader is based on your not accepting that this survey is definitive. I agree it is a small, non-random, survey. But before you accuse jim of deceiving you need to have data which is different than what he has presented. It would be perfectly reasonable for you to say that the 97% data is questionable. But you did not say that, you wrote what you wrote accusing jim of perfidy.

I will accept the data from the survey as accurate, given the limitations of the survey, until someone can present contrary data. You have not presented contrary data. I suspect based on the body of what you have been posting that you just don't like the result of this survey. as it suggests that people who understand Covid risk and vaccine risk are overwhelmingly getting vaccines.

I can report that I know a large number of practicing physicians. All of them are vaccinated to the best of my knowledge.

And I'll add to that every physician I know, and there are many, have been fully vaccinated.

[Swoop]

So your accusation that jim is misleading the reader is based on your not accepting that this survey is definitive. I agree it is a small, non-random, survey. But before you accuse jim of deceiving you need to have data which is different than what he has presented. It would be perfectly reasonable for you to say that the 97% data is questionable. But you did not say that, you wrote what you wrote accusing jim of perfidy.

I will accept the data from the survey as accurate, given the limitations of the survey, until someone can present contrary data. You have not presented contrary data. I suspect based on the body of what you have been posting that you just don't like the result of this survey. as it suggests that people who understand Covid risk and vaccine risk are overwhelmingly getting vaccines.

I can report that I know a large number of practicing physicians. All of them are vaccinated to the best of my knowledge.

Jim does not claim that a small survey of 301 out of roughly 1,000,000 doctors in the US said they had been vaccinated at a 97% rate.
He as repeatedly posted that 97% of ALL doctors in the US are vaccinated.
If I surveyed 30 Villagers and asked them if they drove over 20 mph in their golf cart, and 29 responded that they didn’t. Would you then accept the notion that 97% of ALL Villagers do not drive over 20 mph?

[Bill14564]

Jim does not claim that a small survey of 301 out of roughly 1,000,000 doctors in the US said they had been vaccinated at a 97% rate.
He as repeatedly posted that 97% of ALL doctors in the US are vaccinated.
If I surveyed 30 Villagers and asked them if they drove over 20 mph in their golf cart, and 29 responded that they didn’t. Would you then accept the notion that 97% of ALL Villagers do not drive over 20 mph?

Absent any other information, yes the results of the survey of 30 Villagers would stand. But I have other information, I have my personal observation. I know I have been passed by golf carts traveling more than 20mph but I also know that I've followed far more that were traveling at or below 20mph. I didn't keep score so I can't come up with an exact ratio but I also cannot deny the 97%.

With the 97% of doctors being vaccinated, again we are not without additional information. There are now two sources of information stating that their observations support the 97% number. Other than a strong desire to disbelieve, what do you have that shows the 97% number is incorrect?

"Well I just don't believe it." Is not evidence, it's an opinion.

[John41]

Ok...you guys....seriously, I have a question....now they are saying we need a booster, which I am fine with....but I just got notice from CVS that flu shots will be ready anyday....what do you think? Get both?...just the booster? Any input?

We will get both but space them a month or two apart. Also we got a pneumonia shot last Fall.

[John41]

Jim does not claim that a small survey of 301 out of roughly 1,000,000 doctors in the US said they had been vaccinated at a 97% rate.
He as repeatedly posted that 97% of ALL doctors in the US are vaccinated.
If I surveyed 30 Villagers and asked them if they drove over 20 mph in their golf cart, and 29 responded that they didn’t. Would you then accept the notion that 97% of ALL Villagers do not drive over 20 mph?

I agree with you.
And suppose Moderna tested their vaccine on only 301 adults and posted a 96% efficacy. People are gullible to believe any info given them unless it’s disproved which is the exact opposite of the scientific method. Of course if the poll results don’t fit their narrative they reject them.

[golfing eagles]

Jim does not claim that a small survey of 301 out of roughly 1,000,000 doctors in the US said they had been vaccinated at a 97% rate.
He as repeatedly posted that 97% of ALL doctors in the US are vaccinated.
If I surveyed 30 Villagers and asked them if they drove over 20 mph in their golf cart, and 29 responded that they didn’t. Would you then accept the notion that 97% of ALL Villagers do not drive over 20 mph?

And suppose Moderna tested their vaccine on only 301 adults and posted a 96% efficacy. People are gullible to believe any info given them unless it’s disproved which is the exact opposite of the scientific method. Of course if the poll results don’t fit their narrative they reject them.

I think we would need a statistician to determine if the sample size is valid.

However, this was a survey---which means it was mailed to a large # of physicians of which I'm sure only a small percentage responded. Then, like all polls, you have to consider how the question was worded. Imagine the differences in response to the same question asked the 2 following ways:

1) Have you concurred with the overwhelming majority of your colleagues and protected your staff and patients by receiving a proven safe and effective vaccine or are you one of the ignorant quacks with a degree that refused vaccination?

2) Have you ignored the possibility of serious short and long term side effects of a new vaccine for a disease that is highly unlikely to kill you and risked getting vaccinated anyway?

The devil is in the details.

[jswirs]

Maybe. I'm not convinced:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:
Please do not mistake toleration for stupidity.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser View Post
97% of US medical Doctors ARE vaccinated. That is a statement that they are making that I will TRUST.



[edited]. jimjamuser has posted something with an easily Googled claim. So I used the Google and found:

AMA survey shows over 96% of doctors fully vaccinated against COVID-19 | American Medical Association (https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-survey-shows-over-96-doctors-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19)

This is a survey report from early June being done by the AMA of practicing doctors in the USA using the WebMD physician panel. It was not a random survey, it was not Gallup quality. But it is the best data available. You might argue that those physicians who participate in a WebMD panel are better at keeping up to date on new information, or not.

The result of their survey which was 1/2 primary care and 1/2 specialists was that per the press release

AMA survey shows over 96% of doctors fully vaccinated against COVID-19


So I think, unless you have newer better information with a link, jim's statement looks pretty good. I will allow that over 96% does not mean 97%. It could be 96.1% But being that it was done in early June, the number can only have gone up since then.

In the interest in civility, it would be nice to see someone, just once, come online and apologize for calling someone a [edited].

An interesting point:
Only about 20-30% of U.S. doctors are paying members of the AMA. SO, I am curious if they are speaking for ALL doctors in regards to having been vaccinated or just members?

[Byte1]

Thank you for stating facts. What is also not being mentioned is that the vaccinated people who catch it are not getting deathly ill, and those that are have serious underlining issues that can not be part of the conversation because of hippa. If a 90 yr old who is vaccinated gets covid and dies of a heart attack, dibeties or other, the death still goes into the covid death numbers not because they died of covid, but had covid when they died.
Wearing a mask costs nothing and makes everyone around you feel safer. Why would anyone not be willing to do such a simple act if you can calm fears of those you interact with. And if you do not choose to get vaccinated and wear a mask, then please pay the full cost of your healthcare because all the people you refuse to wear a mask for, should not have to pay the rising cost of healthcare and insurance because of your selfishness.

Since wearing a mask (unless the 95 type) is useless, I do not wear a mask. I do not care if it makes folks I do not know "feel safer." Maybe they need to face reality. And as far as "paying my full cost of healthcare" that is my business and actually I do feel that I have paid MORE than my share toward the insurance industry. Calling someone "selfish" is just a juvenile attempt to get your way. I do not agree with your opinion and I do not expect you to agree with mine. Suffice it to say, if you wish to "feel safer" then concentrate on your own welfare, not expecting someone else to look out for you.
I went shopping at Walmart the other day and there was a lady at the door handing out cheap thin paper masks for anyone wishing to "feel safer" or for those that wish to coddle others and make them "feel safer" by wearing the silly things. I stay my distance from others and expect the same courtesy from them. If not, then it is on them if they catch something. Either way, it makes no difference to me. I have my vaccinations and will ponder the idea of any benefit to the booster when offered. I am in no hurry to get the booster and have no complaint if someone wishes to jump the line in front of me. I take responsibility for myself and will not blame anyone else if I catch the dreaded covid.

[Swoop]

Absent any other information, yes the results of the survey of 30 Villagers would stand. But I have other information, I have my personal observation. I know I have been passed by golf carts traveling more than 20mph but I also know that I've followed far more that were traveling at or below 20mph. I didn't keep score so I can't come up with an exact ratio but I also cannot deny the 97%.

With the 97% of doctors being vaccinated, again we are not without additional information. There are now two sources of information stating that their observations support the 97% number. Other than a strong desire to disbelieve, what do you have that shows the 97% number is incorrect?

"Well I just don't believe it." Is not evidence, it's an opinion.

Please share the “second source”…

[Bill14564]

Please share the “second source”…

Reread the recent posts

[Swoop]

Reread the recent posts

I’ve read them. Where is the “second source”?
Next to the second shooter on the grassy knoll….

[Bill14564]

I’ve read them. Where is the “second source”?
Next to the second shooter on the grassy knoll….

Yep

[Get real]

:bigbow:

[PugMom]

Since wearing a mask (unless the 95 type) is useless, I do not wear a mask. I do not care if it makes folks I do not know "feel safer." Maybe they need to face reality. And as far as "paying my full cost of healthcare" that is my business and actually I do feel that I have paid MORE than my share toward the insurance industry. Calling someone "selfish" is just a juvenile attempt to get your way. I do not agree with your opinion and I do not expect you to agree with mine. Suffice it to say, if you wish to "feel safer" then concentrate on your own welfare, not expecting someone else to look out for you.
I went shopping at Walmart the other day and there was a lady at the door handing out cheap thin paper masks for anyone wishing to "feel safer" or for those that wish to coddle others and make them "feel safer" by wearing the silly things. I stay my distance from others and expect the same courtesy from them. If not, then it is on them if they catch something. Either way, it makes no difference to me. I have my vaccinations and will ponder the idea of any benefit to the booster when offered. I am in no hurry to get the booster and have no complaint if someone wishes to jump the line in front of me. I take responsibility for myself and will not blame anyone else if I catch the dreaded covid.

:bigbow::clap2:

[jaj523]

Don't you mean ventilators? Incubators are for babies.

[drducat]

You should be more angry over those that refuse to be vaccinated---that's where the real problem lies.

You should know by now that is false......good gravy!:faint:

[golfing eagles]

You should know by now that is false......good gravy!:faint:

No, YOU should know by now that's TRUE. But it appears from that and other posts that some inane agenda is being pursued.

[graciegirl]

From the New York Times;

F.D.A. Grants Full Approval to Pfizer-BioNTech Covid Vaccine (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fda-grants-full-approval-to-pfizer-biontech-covid-vaccine/ar-AAND6kw?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531)

[drducat]

No, YOU should know by now that's TRUE. But it appears from that and other posts that some inane agenda is being pursued.

I happen to believe it is not a good idea to vaccinate someone 3 or 4 times a year...every year from now until???????

[golfing eagles]

I happen to believe it is not a good idea to vaccinate someone 3 or 4 times a year...every year from now until???????

And just who is advocating that?

[coffeebean]

From the New York Times;

F.D.A. Grants Full Approval to Pfizer-BioNTech Covid Vaccine (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fda-grants-full-approval-to-pfizer-biontech-covid-vaccine/ar-AAND6kw?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531)

Full FDA approval for the Moderna Covid Vaccine is not far behind.

[golfing eagles]

Full FDA approval for the Moderna Covid Vaccine is not far behind.

Great! This will eliminate the "it's not approved" and "this is all one huge drug trial" as EXCUSES for the anti-vaxxers. Any of them who had been using that excuse will now have to migrate to the "we don't know the long term effects" EXCUSE.

But even if we had conclusive proof that there were no long term effects, the next EXCUSE would be "there's a chip in the vaccine that marks me as a target for alien abduction by insectoids from the Andromeda galaxy"

Enough lame EXCUSES----get vaccinated, if only for your grandchildren!

[drducat]

Great! This will eliminate the "it's not approved" and "this is all one huge drug trial" as EXCUSES for the anti-vaxxers. Any of them who had been using that excuse will now have to migrate to the "we don't know the long term effects" EXCUSE.

But even if we had conclusive proof that there were no long term effects, the next EXCUSE would be "there's a chip in the vaccine that marks me as a target for alien abduction by insectoids from the Andromeda galaxy"

Enough lame EXCUSES----get vaccinated, if only for your grandchildren!

Until big pharma or the government accepts liability of negative effects of the vaccine, nothing will change. Especially when for the first time in history a vaccine has been approved in less than a year.

[golfing eagles]

Until big pharma or the government accepts liability of negative effects of the vaccine, nothing will change. Especially when for the first time in history a vaccine has been approved in less than a year.

Aha! First migration to the "negative effects" EXCUSE

[Bill14564]

Until big pharma or the government accepts liability of negative effects of the vaccine, nothing will change. Especially when for the first time in history a vaccine has been approved in less than a year.

More bang for the buck if we could hold liable those spreading misinformation and encouraging vaccine hesitancy. It is their message that is resulting in more deaths.

[Altavia]

Until big pharma or the government accepts liability of negative effects of the vaccine, nothing will change. Especially when for the first time in history a vaccine has been approved in less than a year.

Over 1,400 unvacinated died in FL last week, and still climbing.

Many young adults and children.

It's time for everyone to get on the bus to kill COVID.

[Swoop]

Over 1,400 unvacinated died in FL last week, and still climbing.

Many young adults and children.

It's time for everyone to get on the bus to kill COVID.

In the entire United States - since the onset of Covid - a total of 430 children 0-18 have died from Covid according to the CDC. In that same timeframe more than 70,000 died of other causes.

So, please define “many”…

[coffeebean]

Until big pharma or the government accepts liability of negative effects of the vaccine, nothing will change. Especially when for the first time in history a vaccine has been approved in less than a year.

Modern technology deserves the distinction of being "first".

[coffeebean]

In the entire United States - since the onset of Covid - a total of 430 children 0-18 have died from Covid according to the CDC. In that same timeframe more than 70,000 died of other causes.

So, please define “many”…

"One" is too many.

Not buying it, huh?

[Velvet]

Some deaths we can prevent, those are needless deaths. That is why it hurts so much.

[drducat]

Aha! First migration to the "negative effects" EXCUSE

No...nothing has changed....accountability was and is always a concern and something is wrong if the makers are not being held accountable. This is just the beginning....just wait!

[golfing eagles]

No...nothing has changed....accountability was and is always a concern and something is wrong if the makers are not being held accountable. This is just the beginning....just wait!

I wouldn't hold my breath :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[drducat]

I wouldn't hold my breath :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Wouldn't be laughing if I were you. Do you know if you are one of the 50% whom received only saline?

[Velvet]

Wouldn't be laughing if I were you. Do you know if you are one of the 50% whom received only saline?

I think you asked the wrong person.

[Bill14564]

Wouldn't be laughing if I were you. Do you know if you are one of the 50% whom received only saline?

Where in the world of conspiracies did you come up with that fruitcake idea? Or are you really and truly just trolling?

[golfing eagles]

Wouldn't be laughing if I were you. Do you know if you are one of the 50% whom received only saline?

Sorry, not playing that game. I assume that post just baiting the rest of us, since no one could be that stupid.

[Swoop]

Some deaths we can prevent, those are needless deaths. That is why it hurts so much.

So let me get this straight. The 70,000 deaths weren’t preventable - but the 430 were?!?

[Velvet]

So let me get this straight. The 70,000 deaths weren’t preventable - but the 430 were?!?

Most Covid deaths were preventable once we knew how to protect ourselves. Children depend on adults to protect them.

[drducat]

Where in the world of conspiracies did you come up with that fruitcake idea? Or are you really and truly just trolling?

I think it was from this fruitcake government source the FDA.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download


"The safety of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine was evaluated in participants 12 years of age and older in
two clinical studies conducted in the United States, Europe, Turkey, South Africa, and South America.
Study BNT162-01 (Study 1) was a Phase 1/2, two-part, dose-escalation trial that enrolled 60 participants,
18 through 55 years of age. Study C4591001 (Study 2) is a Phase 1/2/3, multicenter, multinational, randomized,
saline placebo-controlled, observer-blind, dose-finding, vaccine candidate-selection (Phase 1) and efficacy
(Phase 2/3) study that has enrolled approximately 46,000 participants, 12 years of age or older. Of these,
approximately 43,448 participants (21,720 Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine; 21,728 placebo) in Phase 2/3
are 16 years of age or older (including 138 and 145 adolescents 16 and 17 years of age in the vaccine and
placebo groups, respectively) and 2,260 adolescents are 12 through 15 years of age (1,131 and 1,129 in the
vaccine and placebo groups, respectively)."

[drducat]

I think it was from this fruitcake government source the FDA.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download


"The safety of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine was evaluated in participants 12 years of age and older in
two clinical studies conducted in the United States, Europe, Turkey, South Africa, and South America.
Study BNT162-01 (Study 1) was a Phase 1/2, two-part, dose-escalation trial that enrolled 60 participants,
18 through 55 years of age. Study C4591001 (Study 2) is a Phase 1/2/3, multicenter, multinational, randomized,
saline placebo-controlled, observer-blind, dose-finding, vaccine candidate-selection (Phase 1) and efficacy
(Phase 2/3) study that has enrolled approximately 46,000 participants, 12 years of age or older. Of these,
approximately 43,448 participants (21,720 Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine; 21,728 placebo) in Phase 2/3
are 16 years of age or older (including 138 and 145 adolescents 16 and 17 years of age in the vaccine and
placebo groups, respectively) and 2,260 adolescents are 12 through 15 years of age (1,131 and 1,129 in the
vaccine and placebo groups, respectively)."

Not sure how long they continued.........

[drducat]

Not sure how long they continued.........

And how about a vaccine for the vaccine?

Wow....

A drug candidate for treating adverse reactions caused by pathogenic antibodies inducible by COVID-19 virus and vaccines | bioRxiv (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.13.452194v2)chilout

[golfing eagles]

I think it was from this fruitcake government source the FDA.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144413/download


"The safety of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine was evaluated in participants 12 years of age and older in
two clinical studies conducted in the United States, Europe, Turkey, South Africa, and South America.
Study BNT162-01 (Study 1) was a Phase 1/2, two-part, dose-escalation trial that enrolled 60 participants,
18 through 55 years of age. Study C4591001 (Study 2) is a Phase 1/2/3, multicenter, multinational, randomized,
saline placebo-controlled, observer-blind, dose-finding, vaccine candidate-selection (Phase 1) and efficacy
(Phase 2/3) study that has enrolled approximately 46,000 participants, 12 years of age or older. Of these,
approximately 43,448 participants (21,720 Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine; 21,728 placebo) in Phase 2/3
are 16 years of age or older (including 138 and 145 adolescents 16 and 17 years of age in the vaccine and
placebo groups, respectively) and 2,260 adolescents are 12 through 15 years of age (1,131 and 1,129 in the
vaccine and placebo groups, respectively)."

You really can't be serious. That's the study data---of course there is a placebo control group, that's how you evaluate drugs/vaccines/treatments for approval (or EUA) PRIOR to distribution. They were NOT giving placebo when vaccinating the general public.

This emphasizes the basic problem of the internet----people reading something with no idea what it means but considering themselves an expert. Unbelievable.

[Love2Swim]

You really can't be serious. That's the study data---of course there is a placebo control group, that's how you evaluate drugs/vaccines/treatments for approval (or EUA) PRIOR to distribution. They were NOT giving placebo when vaccinating the general public.

This emphasizes the basic problem of the internet----people reading something with no idea what it means but considering themselves an expert. Unbelievable.

Agree. :bigbow:

[Altavia]

Not sure how long they continued.........

The trials placebo group was offered to switch to the Vaccine group as soon as it was approved for the general public.

[Bill14564]

And how about a vaccine for the vaccine?

Wow....

A drug candidate for treating adverse reactions caused by pathogenic antibodies inducible by COVID-19 virus and vaccines | bioRxiv (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.13.452194v2)chilout

Did you actually read the article including the reference they cited for the adverse effects potentially caused by the vaccine? As far as I can tell, their treatment is for an adverse effect that their citation does not identify. As far as a "vaccine for the vaccine," they have a potential solution in search of a problem.

[drducat]

Did you actually read the article including the reference they cited for the adverse effects potentially caused by the vaccine? As far as I can tell, their treatment is for an adverse effect that their citation does not identify. As far as a "vaccine for the vaccine," they have a potential solution in search of a problem.

Point is...Fear Porn. These vaccines are not really going to stop anything...the desired result was not protection from the virus rather keeping one out of the hospital...worked for some and very short lived.

Need a much better solution...that is my whole point.

[Bill14564]

Point is...Fear Porn. These vaccines are not really going to stop anything...the desired result was not protection from the virus rather keeping one out of the hospital...worked for some and very short lived.

Need a much better solution...that is my whole point.

Then you didn't read the article or any of the supporting material?

Many, in the face of hundreds of thousands of deaths in the US alone, feel that keeping one out of the hospital, and alive, is the definition of protection from the virus.

Spreading misinformation and promoting vaccine hesitancy seems to be your whole point. It doesn't matter if the substance of the articles you post supports the scary title or supports your position; throw enough spaghetti against the wall and maybe something will stick.

[roscoguy]

Great! This will eliminate the "it's not approved" and "this is all one huge drug trial" as EXCUSES for the anti-vaxxers. Any of them who had been using that excuse will now have to migrate to the "we don't know the long term effects" EXCUSE.

But even if we had conclusive proof that there were no long term effects, the next EXCUSE would be "there's a chip in the vaccine that marks me as a target for alien abduction by insectoids from the Andromeda galaxy"

Enough lame EXCUSES----get vaccinated, if only for your grandchildren!

Until big pharma or the government accepts liability of negative effects of the vaccine, nothing will change. Especially when for the first time in history a vaccine has been approved in less than a year.

Aha! First migration to the "negative effects" EXCUSE

Sorry GE, but you're most likely wasting your breath & unnecessarily raising your BP. Several weeks ago, I watched a video* of an interview with (IIRC) a psychologist who explained why conspiracy theories are nearly impossible to disprove; they are basically self-healing. When confronted with a provable fact, the narrative just changes to something like 'well then, what about this (tangent/segue)' or 'we all know that (fill in the blank) has lied to us before, so I don't trust anything they say', etc, etc, etc. Once people have bought into the cult mantra, it's exceptionally difficult to 'deprogram' most of them.

* I should try to find the link to the video, but it really doesn't matter...

[drducat]

Sorry GE, but you're most likely wasting your breath & unnecessarily raising your BP. Several weeks ago, I watched a video* of an interview with (IIRC) a psychologist who explained why conspiracy theories are nearly impossible to disprove; they are basically self-healing. When confronted with a provable fact, the narrative just changes to something like 'well then, what about this (tangent/segue)' or 'we all know that (fill in the blank) has lied to us before, so I don't trust anything they say', etc, etc, etc. Once people have bought into the cult mantra, it's exceptionally difficult to 'deprogram' most of them.

* I should try to find the link to the video, but it really doesn't matter...

I have always said if one wants to take the vaccine go for it......I support individual choice in the matter and I am not vaccine hesitant.....safety first is my concern. There still is no long term study on this....so I remain.

Are you sure where the conspiracy is coming from???? Most likely not, one would suspect. The science seems split 50/50 on this so if ignoring one side is ok with you then do so....also my position has been the same all along.

[coffeebean]

Wouldn't be laughing if I were you. Do you know if you are one of the 50% whom received only saline?

Please don't perpetuate this misinformation. That is so wrong on every level to do that.

[coffeebean]

Point is...Fear Porn. These vaccines are not really going to stop anything...the desired result was not protection from the virus rather keeping one out of the hospital...worked for some and very short lived.

Need a much better solution...that is my whole point.

Why do you say that? From where I sit, most of the hospitalized and dying are still
un-vaccinated. Unless.......something has changed since this morning that I don't know about.

[roscoguy]

I have always said if one wants to take the vaccine go for it......I support individual choice in the matter and I am not vaccine hesitant.....safety first is my concern. There still is no long term study on this....so I remain.
And yet you are continuously very vocal about your doubts about the vaccine. As been said uncounted times before, there simply was no time for a years-long study of a vaccine for a pandemic from a novel virus. The science is NOT new, field test WERE done & still pot-stirrers rile up their audiences, often with little more than opinions.

Are you sure where the conspiracy is coming from???? Most likely not, one would suspect. The science seems split 50/50 on this so if ignoring one side is ok with you then do so....also my position has been the same all along.

50/50??? That sounds like the exact same split consensus on smoking causing cancer, global warming, JFK's assassination, the faked moon landing, flat earth... :ohdear:

[golfing eagles]

Sorry GE, but you're most likely wasting your breath & unnecessarily raising your BP. Several weeks ago, I watched a video* of an interview with (IIRC) a psychologist who explained why conspiracy theories are nearly impossible to disprove; they are basically self-healing. When confronted with a provable fact, the narrative just changes to something like 'well then, what about this (tangent/segue)' or 'we all know that (fill in the blank) has lied to us before, so I don't trust anything they say', etc, etc, etc. Once people have bought into the cult mantra, it's exceptionally difficult to 'deprogram' most of them.

* I should try to find the link to the video, but it really doesn't matter...

I realize no one can convince a true believer of that nonsense. But there may be people on the fence that could see the light of reason.

[Velvet]

Sorry GE, but you're most likely wasting your breath & unnecessarily raising your BP. Several weeks ago, I watched a video* of an interview with (IIRC) a psychologist who explained why conspiracy theories are nearly impossible to disprove; they are basically self-healing. When confronted with a provable fact, the narrative just changes to something like 'well then, what about this (tangent/segue)' or 'we all know that (fill in the blank) has lied to us before, so I don't trust anything they say', etc, etc, etc. Once people have bought into the cult mantra, it's exceptionally difficult to 'deprogram' most of them.

* I should try to find the link to the video, but it really doesn't matter...

Well put! Have relatives brainwashed by cult took decades to undo it.

[Altavia]

Are you sure where the conspiracy is coming from???? Most likely not, one would suspect. The science seems split 50/50 on this so if ignoring one side is ok with you then do so....also my position has been the same all along.

The Science/Physicians are more like 95/5...

So, what do these results from three mid size Florida hospitals tell you?

[golfing eagles]

The Science/Physicians are more like 95/5...

So, what do these results from three mid size Florida hospitals tell you?

It tells the conspiracy theorists and the anti-vaxxers absolutely nothing. And they would appreciate it if you stopped trying to confuse them with the facts!

[drducat]

Why do you say that? From where I sit, most of the hospitalized and dying are still
un-vaccinated. Unless.......something has changed since this morning that I don't know about.

Ok, boosters will be 2 to 3 times a year at the rate the vaccine wanes.
Since they are working on multiple therapeutics (which the Phizer vaccine has been referred as), that would be the preferred method.

[golfing eagles]

Ok, boosters will be 2 to 3 times a year at the rate the vaccine wanes.
Since they are working on multiple therapeutics (which the Phizer vaccine has been referred as), that would be the preferred method.

And where did you glean that little (unsubstantiated) tidbit?????

[Altavia]

More real world data.

SARS-CoV-2 Infections and Hospitalizations Among Persons Aged ≥16 Years, by Vaccination Status — Los Angeles County, California, May 1–July 25, 2021

SARS-CoV-2 Infections and Hospitalizations Among Persons Aged ≥16 Years, by Vaccination Status — Los Angeles County, California, May 1–July 25, 2021 | MMWR (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e5.htm)


Summary
What is already known about this topic?
Although COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective, some fully vaccinated persons will be infected with SARS-CoV-2.
What is added by this report?
During May 1–July 25, 2021, among 43,127 SARS-CoV-2 infections in residents of Los Angeles County, California,
10,895 (25.3%) were in fully vaccinated persons, 1,431 (3.3%) were in partially vaccinated persons, and 30,801 (71.4%) were in unvaccinated persons. On July 25, infection and hospitalization rates among unvaccinated persons were 4.9 and 29.2 times, respectively, those in fully vaccinated persons. In July, when
the Delta variant was predominant, cycle threshold values were similar for unvaccinated, partially vaccinated, and vaccinated persons.
What are the implications for public health practice?
Efforts to enhance COVID-19 vaccination coverage, in coordina- tion with other prevention strategies, are critical to preventing COVID-19–related hospitalizations and deaths.

[fishon]

I apologize for my liberalism.

Mind your own business.

My body my choice.

[coffeebean]

Ok, boosters will be 2 to 3 times a year at the rate the vaccine wanes.
Since they are working on multiple therapeutics (which the Phizer vaccine has been referred as), that would be the preferred method.


That is not what I heard Dr. Fauci say just two days ago on MSM. He said the booster will give 30 fold protection and there is a very good chance no further boosters will be necessary. But.....who knows????

[drducat]

Vaccine Efficacy Diminished as Delta Arose, CDC Report Shows (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/vaccine-efficacy-diminished-as-delta-arose-cdc-report-shows/ar-AANGSlO)That is not what I heard Dr. Fauci say just two days ago on MSM. He said the booster will give 30 fold protection and there is a very good chance no further boosters will be necessary. But.....who knows????

[drducat]

More conspiracy info from the FDA.

Anyone caring to read up on the BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine Comirnaty (the fully approved vaccine, which is not available yet) and the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine which has not been approved and is still under EUA (Emergency Use Authorization). Take a look at the fact sheets FDA has on the two.

Comirnaty and Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine | FDA (https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/comirnaty-and-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine)

The vaccine known as Phizer-BioNTech:

Will the emergency use authorization (EUA) for Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine remain in effect after the approval?

The EUA will continue to cover adolescents 12 through 15 years of age and the administration of a third dose to certain immunocompromised individuals 12 years of age and older. Additionally, for logistical reasons, the EUA will continue to cover the use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID 19 Vaccine in individuals 16 years of age and older; this use is also now approved.

How is Comirnaty (COVID-19 VACCINE, mRNA) related to the PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?

The FDA-approved Pfizer-BioNTech product Comirnaty (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) and the FDA-authorized Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine under EUA have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series without presenting any safety or effectiveness concerns. Therefore, providers can use doses distributed under EUA to administer the vaccination series as if the doses were the licensed vaccine. For purposes of administration, doses distributed under the EUA are interchangeable with the licensed doses. The Vaccine Information Fact Sheet for Recipients and Caregivers provides additional information about both the approved and authorized vaccine.


So the approved vaccine from BioNTech is not even available yet. This vaccine maker (BioNTech) will not have liability protection while the Phizer vaccine will still have the liability waived under EUA. Timeline is late 2023?

Seems like alot of legal avoidance going on from the liability aspect of the 2 drugs that are the same.....hmmm

Not sure what to think about this other than CYA.

[jswirs]

Sorry GE, but you're most likely wasting your breath & unnecessarily raising your BP. Several weeks ago, I watched a video* of an interview with (IIRC) a psychologist who explained why conspiracy theories are nearly impossible to disprove; they are basically self-healing. When confronted with a provable fact, the narrative just changes to something like 'well then, what about this (tangent/segue)' or 'we all know that (fill in the blank) has lied to us before, so I don't trust anything they say', etc, etc, etc. Once people have bought into the cult mantra, it's exceptionally difficult to 'deprogram' most of them.

* I should try to find the link to the video, but it really doesn't matter...

"The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior", re: Agent Orange, etc., etc.

[Bill14564]

More conspiracy info from the FDA.

Anyone caring to read up on the BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine Comirnaty (the fully approved vaccine, which is not available yet) and the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine which has not been approved and is still under EUA (Emergency Use Authorization). Take a look at the fact sheets FDA has on the two.

Comirnaty and Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine | FDA (https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/comirnaty-and-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine)


/// a lot removed to save space ///


Well, you read far enough to find those paragraphs. Too bad you didn't understand the very clear English in them.

There are NOT two vaccines, there is the ONE Pfizer vaccine that has been administered since 2020.

The vaccine is the same, they chose a name to put on the box and they changed the label to note the approval. Boxes shipped before Monday don't have the new name or the new label but "have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably to provide the COVID-19 vaccination." (that was from the paragraph you chose to copy)

Some try to make mountains out of molehills - there isn't even a molehill here.

[drducat]

Well, you read far enough to find those paragraphs. Too bad you didn't understand the very clear English in them.

There are NOT two vaccines, there is the ONE Pfizer vaccine that has been administered since 2020.

The vaccine is the same, they chose a name to put on the box and they changed the label to note the approval. Boxes shipped before Monday don't have the new name or the new label but "have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably to provide the COVID-19 vaccination." (that was from the paragraph you chose to copy)

Some try to make mountains out of molehills - there isn't even a molehill here.

You better read it again! The same formula different vaccines...period.

[drducat]

You better read it again! The same formula different vaccines...period.

Go ahead and see if you can get the BioNTech vaccine.....not available.

[Bill14564]

You better read it again! The same formula different vaccines...period.

Go ahead and see if you can get the BioNTech vaccine.....not available.

If you honestly don't understand, I will try to help you. If you are just trolling, I have better things to do.

[drducat]

If you honestly don't understand, I will try to help you. If you are just trolling, I have better things to do.

What I am seeing is the original Pfizer is still EUA only and the BioNTech is fully approved. My understanding the BioNTech is not yet available and the pfizer is.

Pfizer is still not liable and BioNTech will be once on market. The FDA sent out 2 different letters, one for each product.

Nothing about swapping labels which is not legal is it?

[Bill14564]

What I am seeing is the original Pfizer is still EUA only and the BioNTech is fully approved. My understanding the BioNTech is not yet available and the pfizer is.

Pfizer is still not liable and BioNTech will be once on market. The FDA sent out 2 different letters, one for each product.

Nothing about swapping labels which is not legal is it?

Of course swapping labels is not legal which is why the extra language exists and, if you are being sincere, why you are confused.

Product shipped prior to FDA approval was labeled for the EUA use. Much of that product was shipped and is now waiting for arms. Product produced now that the approval has been granted will be labeled accordingly. A short name, Comirnaty, has been chosen (and most likely licensed) for the product and will appear on the new label. Nothing has changed in the product itself but the labeling needed to be changed to reflect the new status with the FDA.

Note that since the approval was for 16 and over it was necessary to state that the product with the new name is covered by the EUA for 12-15 year olds and for third shot boosters. Otherwise, when the product with the old labeling was gone there would be no vaccine available for the 12-15 range.

I did not see separate letters for the two names or separate FAQ sheets for the two names or anything at all that implied there were two separate vaccines. All I found was clarification that the formulation was the same and that despite the name difference, each could be used under the EUA for the 12-15 range and "boosters" and each could be used for the 16 and over range.

The following sections from the revised EUA LOA may help explain things:
8. The licensed vaccine has the same formulation as the EUA-authorized vaccine and the products can be used interchangeably to provide the vaccination series without presenting any safety or effectiveness concerns. The products are legally distinct with certain differences that do not impact safety or effectiveness.


AA. COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) is now licensed for individuals 16 years of age and older. There remains, however, a significant amount of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine that was manufactured and labeled in accordance with this emergency use authorization. This authorization thus remains in place with respect to that product for the previously-authorized indication and uses (i.e., for use to prevent COVID-19 in individuals 12 years of age and older with a two-dose regimen, and to provide a third dose to individuals 12 years of age or older who have undergone solid organ transplantation, or who are diagnosed with conditions that are considered to have an equivalent level of immunocompromise).

BB. This authorization also covers the use of the licensed COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) product when used to provide a two-dose regimen for individuals aged 12 through 15 years, or to provide a third dose to individuals 12 years of age or older who have undergone solid organ transplantation or who are diagnosed with conditions that are considered to have an equivalent level of immunocompromise. Conditions A through W in this letter apply when COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) is provided for the uses described in this subsection III.BB, except that product manufactured and labeled in accordance with the approved BLA is deemed to satisfy the manufacturing, labeling, and distribution requirements of this authorization.

[drducat]

Of course swapping labels is not legal which is why the extra language exists and, if you are being sincere, why you are confused.

Product shipped prior to FDA approval was labeled for the EUA use. Much of that product was shipped and is now waiting for arms. Product produced now that the approval has been granted will be labeled accordingly. A short name, Comirnaty, has been chosen (and most likely licensed) for the product and will appear on the new label. Nothing has changed in the product itself but the labeling needed to be changed to reflect the new status with the FDA.

Note that since the approval was for 16 and over it was necessary to state that the product with the new name is covered by the EUA for 12-15 year olds and for third shot boosters. Otherwise, when the product with the old labeling was gone there would be no vaccine available for the 12-15 range.

I did not see separate letters for the two names or separate FAQ sheets for the two names or anything at all that implied there were two separate vaccines. All I found was clarification that the formulation was the same and that despite the name difference, each could be used under the EUA for the 12-15 range and "boosters" and each could be used for the 16 and over range.

The following sections from the revised EUA LOA may help explain things:
8. The licensed vaccine has the same formulation as the EUA-authorized vaccine and the products can be used interchangeably to provide the vaccination series without presenting any safety or effectiveness concerns. The products are legally distinct with certain differences that do not impact safety or effectiveness.


AA. COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) is now licensed for individuals 16 years of age and older. There remains, however, a significant amount of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine that was manufactured and labeled in accordance with this emergency use authorization. This authorization thus remains in place with respect to that product for the previously-authorized indication and uses (i.e., for use to prevent COVID-19 in individuals 12 years of age and older with a two-dose regimen, and to provide a third dose to individuals 12 years of age or older who have undergone solid organ transplantation, or who are diagnosed with conditions that are considered to have an equivalent level of immunocompromise).

BB. This authorization also covers the use of the licensed COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) product when used to provide a two-dose regimen for individuals aged 12 through 15 years, or to provide a third dose to individuals 12 years of age or older who have undergone solid organ transplantation or who are diagnosed with conditions that are considered to have an equivalent level of immunocompromise. Conditions A through W in this letter apply when COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) is provided for the uses described in this subsection III.BB, except that product manufactured and labeled in accordance with the approved BLA is deemed to satisfy the manufacturing, labeling, and distribution requirements of this authorization.

Thank you!

The fact sheets are here:

Comirnaty and Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine | FDA (https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/comirnaty-and-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine)

The letters I need to find again.

[Aloha1]

An interesting point:
Only about 20-30% of U.S. doctors are paying members of the AMA. SO, I am curious if they are speaking for ALL doctors in regards to having been vaccinated or just members?
Not since the AMA went "woke". They no longer represent the majority of Physicians in the U.S. and haven't for years.

[larbud]

I need to sh1t,All this smoke blown up My a@@ has aggravated My intestinal fortitude..Just sayin..