Taliban

[dewilson58]

Now:

Taliban mulls flooding the West with heroin to shore up Afghan economy

[billethkid]

///

[stanley]

Now:

Taliban mulls flooding the West with heroin to shore up Afghan economy

I wonder how it will get here.:popcorn:

[dewilson58]

Afghan women, girls fear return to ‘dark days’ as Taliban enter Kabul.

As the Islamist insurgents enter the capital, many fear a disintegration of women’s rights, with the Taliban overturning the freedoms gained during the 20 years since US-led forces helped oversee the country’s transition to democracy.

"The Taliban will regress freedom at all levels and that is what we are fighting against," an Afghan government spokesperson told Reuters on August 13.

"Women and children are suffering the most and our forces are trying to save democracy. The world should understand and help us."

[dewilson58]

Roya Sharifi

Taliban kill woman for not wearing veil, say reports. Days of lashing, stoning back in Afghanistan? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKcQnhDHspU)


Not sure how we can walk / run away.

[Two Bills]

BBC report, and recent Taliban press conf.

Afghanistan crisis: Taliban give first press conference in Kabul - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-58219963)

[Stu from NYC]

BBC report, and recent Taliban press conf.

Afghanistan crisis: Taliban give first press conference in Kabul - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-58219963)

We never had a chance to replace their govt along term. Strange that feminists are not jumping up and down over what is going to happen to females over there.

[Two Bills]

My father was a British soldier in the 1920's, and was stationed in India and Afganistan.
The only thing he ever told me was that the Afgans only stopped fighting each other, to have a pop at the local British garrison.
He also said it was the most beautiful country he ever saw.
The saying about the people was, "You can buy an Afgan, but you will never own one!"
Not much has changed, and given our history in the place, I was truly surprised our government ever put troops back into the country.
But who looks at, or takes notice of history books any more?

[Stu from NYC]

My father was a British soldier in the 1920's, and was stationed in India and Afganistan.
The only thing he ever told me was that the Afgans only stopped fighting each other, to have a pop at the local British garrison.
He also said it was the most beautiful country he ever saw.
The saying about the people was, "You can buy an Afgan, but you will never own one!"
Not much has changed, and given our history in the place, I was truly surprised our government ever put troops back into the country.
But who looks at, or takes notice of history books any more?

Very true.

[Chi-Town]

Twenty years and two trillion dollars for an inevitable outcome. We didn't learn from the French regarding Vietnam or the Russians regarding Afghanistan.

[Moderator]

This will be the only warning. Any further political posts in this thread will get it closed and more infractions will be issued.

Moderator

[drducat]

This will be the only warning. Any further political posts in this thread will get it closed and more infractions will be issued.

Moderator

Please point out a political post....not seeing one.:MOJE_whot:

[Moderator]

Please point out a political post....not seeing one.:MOJE_whot:

They were deleted.

Moderator

[dewilson58]

They were deleted.

Moderator

Glad they were deleted.
This allows a thread to continue and not allow an individual to kill a thread.

[dewilson58]

10,000 Americans still stuck there.

[stanley]

Glad they were deleted.
This allows a thread to continue and not allow an individual to kill a thread.

Or soon to be a couple? Maybe?

[Toymeister]

I was in Afghanistan 16 months ago. Since 2010 I have spent 2 1/2 years there I never found it to be beautiful or even remotely charming.

When we entered in 2001 our mission was to prevent Afghanistan from being a launching point for terrorists. Had we kept that in mind there would be no loss of focus or as much of a financial waste.

This may sound brutal but it is not worth the loss of one American life to ensure girls can go to school when their own families don't want that.

There is no history or desire for democracy there, there is no overwhelming commitment for national security or even a national sense of pride of any significant depth. We were chumps for believing it was even possible to extoll American beliefs there.

Afghanistan GNP is ONE TENTH of it's spending. There is no way the country can survive without international welfare.

[Aces4]

I was in Afghanistan 16 months ago. Since 2010 I have spent 2 1/2 years there I never found it to be beautiful or even remotely charming.

When we entered in 2001 our mission was to prevent Afghanistan from being a launching point for terrorists. Had we kept that in mind there would be no loss of focus or as much of a financial waste.

This may sound brutal but it is not worth the loss of one American life to ensure girls can go to school when their own families don't want that.

There is no history or desire for democracy there, there is no overwhelming commitment for national security or even a national sense of pride of any significant depth. We were chumps for believing it was even possible to extoll American beliefs there.

Afghanistan GNP is ONE TENTH of it's spending. There is no way the country can survive without international welfare.

Might that international welfare come from Russia or China at this point? I’m curious as to what will trend there now.

[John41]

Now:

Taliban mulls flooding the West with heroin to shore up Afghan economy

Easy to transport over the southern border along with the meth.

[Blackbird45]

The initial post is correct. Taliban mulls are flooding the West with heroin to shore up Afghan economy. Drugs will continue to hit our street no matter where they come from. We have spent endless amount and years trying to stop it with no avail. This like most things is a supply and demand issue. We have to discover a way to replace the demand. Either a drug, some sort of surgical implants or really go futuristic a VR headset, something to break the dependence on these types of drugs. Because after all this time and money we have to admit whatever we are doing is not working.

[DaleDivine]

I was in Afghanistan 16 months ago. Since 2010 I have spent 2 1/2 years there I never found it to be beautiful or even remotely charming.

When we entered in 2001 our mission was to prevent Afghanistan from being a launching point for terrorists. Had we kept that in mind there would be no loss of focus or as much of a financial waste.

This may sound brutal but it is not worth the loss of one American life to ensure girls can go to school when their own families don't want that.

There is no history or desire for democracy there, there is no overwhelming commitment for national security or even a national sense of pride of any significant depth. We were chumps for believing it was even possible to extoll American beliefs there.

Afghanistan GNP is ONE TENTH of it's spending. There is no way the country can survive without international welfare.

WELL said...
:pray::bigbow:

[kenoc7]

Twenty years and two trillion dollars for an inevitable outcome. We didn't learn from the French regarding Vietnam or the Russians regarding Afghanistan.
Agreed up to a point, but it was like a cancer patient going into remission for 20 years and the the cancer came back and they died. Was it worth it? Of course it was.

[WesMan]

I was in Afghanistan 16 months ago. Since 2010 I have spent 2 1/2 years there I never found it to be beautiful or even remotely charming.

When we entered in 2001 our mission was to prevent Afghanistan from being a launching point for terrorists. Had we kept that in mind there would be no loss of focus or as much of a financial waste.

This may sound brutal but it is not worth the loss of one American life to ensure girls can go to school when their own families don't want that.

There is no history or desire for democracy there, there is no overwhelming commitment for national security or even a national sense of pride of any significant depth. We were chumps for believing it was even possible to extoll American beliefs there.

Afghanistan GNP is ONE TENTH of it's spending. There is no way the country can survive without international welfare.
So true!!!!!

[Luggage]

For doing your job. The Crux itself is not political but some people always insist on making it so

[GRACEALLEMAN]

Afghan women, girls fear return to ‘dark days’ as Taliban enter Kabul.

As the Islamist insurgents enter the capital, many fear a disintegration of women’s rights, with the Taliban overturning the freedoms gained during the 20 years since US-led forces helped oversee the country’s transition to democracy.

"The Taliban will regress freedom at all levels and that is what we are fighting against," an Afghan government spokesperson told Reuters on August 13.

"Women and children are suffering the most and our forces are trying to save democracy. The world should understand and help us."
Women and children Taliban

[GRACEALLEMAN]

Women and children Taliban

We've been there long enough, too many of our boys have died, too much money, have we spent. We don't need to be there. They are savages. Look at the history of all the nations that have tried to take over this country. Beyond 3rd world.

[Dana1963]

Easy to transport over the southern border along with the meth.
Don't fool yourself it will be flown or by sea into ports of entry as it always has and is.

[tvbound]

Afghanistan is not a 'country' in the way we think of one. It is actually a bunch of fiefdoms controlled by warlords and their armed followers. Of which, most of the money and weapons we have sent there have went into the pockets of those warlords. Our original intent to go there and stop Al-Qaeda and/or other international terrorist groups from having a safe haven under the Taliban, was a good one, but the failure was in thinking we could change centuries of their warring history. We need to stop trying to nation-build and recognize that at some point, enough is enough. Yes, it is a tragedy regarding what will happen to women and children under Taliban rule, but unless we continue to lose American troops for another 20 years and a few more trillion dollars (which still won't change anything and the money will still pour into the warlords pockets) - it is time to leave. Our biggest mistake was in not starting earlier in getting those who have helped us out of the country first, for their own protection. Our other mistake was not having good enough intelligence to realize how fast and easily the Taliban would fill the void, without the threat of Americans backing the joke of the previous 'government.'

History (British/Russians/Etc.) shows that a country's citizens are willing to fight to the end, against those who have 'invaded' their country. If the USA were invaded - we would be doing the same exact thing.

[Petersweeney]

What happened to free speech? This is what China does……

[Malsua]

We've been there long enough, too many of our boys have died, too much money, have we spent. We don't need to be there. They are savages. Look at the history of all the nations that have tried to take over this country. Beyond 3rd world.

The history and culture of these people goes back to the silk road and the tribal days. The Han dynasty created the northern route specifically because they needed to provide safety for the caravans moving across this region. The northern route was built to avoid dropping into what is now Afghanistan.

[golfing eagles]

What happened to free speech? This is what China does……

This is not open mike night. TOTV is a privately run website with rules which include no political posts. But there are those that just can't help themselves and insert political posts into almost every thread, resulting in many of them getting closed by the moderators who are just doing their job.

Anyone who wants "free speech", are free to start their own web forum

[Petersweeney]

2 trillion dollars could have built so many hospitals and drug treatment centers…..what a shame

[tvbound]

What happened to free speech? This is what China does……

You're confused. That only applies to what our government can do to its citizens, NOT to how a private entity (such as this site) or a company - can do to its members/employees.

[tklloop]

Now:

Taliban mulls flooding the West with heroin to shore up Afghan economy

You mean like what Latin America has been doing for 30 years?? Americans stop being drug addicts and the problem goes away!

[Chi-Town]

Agreed up to a point, but it was like a cancer patient going into remission for 20 years and the the cancer came back and they died. Was it worth it? Of course it was.

More like 20 years of hospice than remission. Hardly worth it.

[cafw1]

Twenty years and two trillion dollars for an inevitable outcome. We didn't learn from the French regarding Vietnam or the Russians regarding Afghanistan.I tot

I totally agree.

[Billy1]

Let us thank God our troops are coming home.

[MandoMan]

Now:

Taliban mulls flooding the West with heroin to shore up Afghan economy

The following paragraph is from the Wikipedia article “Opium Production in Afghanistan”:

“Afghanistan has been the world's leading illicit drug producer since 2001.[1] Afghanistan's opium poppy harvest produces more than 90% of illicit heroin globally, and more than 95% of the European supply.[2][3] More land is used for opium in Afghanistan than is used for coca cultivation in Latin America. In 2007, 93% of the non-pharmaceutical-grade opiates on the world market originated in Afghanistan.[4] By 2019 Afghanistan still produced about 84% of the world market.[5] This amounts to an export value of about US$4 billion, with a quarter being earned by opium farmers and the rest going to district officials, insurgents, warlords, and drug traffickers.[6] In the seven years (1994–2000) prior to a Taliban opium ban, the Afghan farmers' share of gross income from opium was divided among 200,000 families.[7] As of 2017, opium production provides about 400,000 jobs in Afghanistan, more than the Afghan National Security Forces.[8] The opium trade spiked in 2006 after the Taliban lost control of local warlords. In addition to opium, Afghanistan is also the world's leading producer of hashish.”

Production in 2020 was up 37% over 2019, but the biggest year was 2017. https://www.unodc.org/documents/crop-monitoring/Afghanistan/20210503_Executive_summary_Opium_Survey_2020_SMALL .pdf

If people aren’t living in war zones, then we can expect opium production to increase, but we can also expect the price the farmers receive per kilo to decrease. According to the web site OECworld (observatory of Economic Complexity), “ The top exports of Afghanistan are Gold ($968M), Grapes ($214M), Insect Resins ($129M), Other Nuts ($113M), and Tropical Fruits ($97.4M), exporting mostly to United Arab Emirates ($1B), Pakistan ($544M), India ($485M), United States ($35.6M), and China ($29.1M).” Opium brings in far more money every year than all of their other exports combined, so of course they will grow as much as possible because they will have a desperate need for money. Bear in mind that a huge percentage of that opium is used to make Morphine, Codeine, and other non-synthetic opioids for medical purposes.

[mk1126]

Was a huge waste of money! When will the world learn. Gone are the days of Alexander.

[Proveone]

Stop trying to interject our western values onto another country's social structure. How would you like if they did the same to us? You wouldn't! We went there to get Osama bin Laden. Job complete - even though he wasn't there. We were in Afghanistan too long. British and Soviets learned that lesson long ago.



Afghan women, girls fear return to ‘dark days’ as Taliban enter Kabul.

As the Islamist insurgents enter the capital, many fear a disintegration of women’s rights, with the Taliban overturning the freedoms gained during the 20 years since US-led forces helped oversee the country’s transition to democracy.

"The Taliban will regress freedom at all levels and that is what we are fighting against," an Afghan government spokesperson told Reuters on August 13.

"Women and children are suffering the most and our forces are trying to save democracy. The world should understand and help us."

[BigSteph]

I tot

I totally agree.


When we entered, we should not have expanded the mission and stayed.

Most people agree we needed to leave -- frankly, a long time ago.

How this exit just happened is surprising.

There are still some 10,000 Americans there.

If you find out you have to have surgery, and other doctors agree in the diagnosis, then the surgery should proceed. If of all the facilities and surgeons to select, you pick a free clinic with a drunken doctor to perform the procedure with unsterile instruments, one can question your decision making. This is my issue with what just happened.

[Joe C.]

It's time to get some drones filled with Agent Orange or some other defoliant and hit the poppy fields.

[Bandb875]

The poppy fields should have been destroyed before we left. Didn't do it then, do it now!

[Dgodin]

They've been doing it for years already since we are a major buyer. The Soviets killed their other industries like shoe making.
Don't expect any change unless the Afghanis figure out a way to significantly increase production.

[Nick B]

Now:

Taliban mulls flooding the West with heroin to shore up Afghan economy
That's odd last time they were in power they destroyed most poppy production. New times I guess.

[John41]

Afghanistan is not a 'country' in the way we think of one. It is actually a bunch of fiefdoms controlled by warlords and their armed followers. Of which, most of the money and weapons we have sent there have went into the pockets of those warlords. Our original intent to go there and stop Al-Qaeda and/or other international terrorist groups from having a safe haven under the Taliban, was a good one, but the failure was in thinking we could change centuries of their warring history. We need to stop trying to nation-build and recognize that at some point, enough is enough. Yes, it is a tragedy regarding what will happen to women and children under Taliban rule, but unless we continue to lose American troops for another 20 years and a few more trillion dollars (which still won't change anything and the money will still pour into the warlords pockets) - it is time to leave. Our biggest mistake was in not starting earlier in getting those who have helped us out of the country first, for their own protection. Our other mistake was not having good enough intelligence to realize how fast and easily the Taliban would fill the void, without the threat of Americans backing the joke of the previous 'government.'

History (British/Russians/Etc.) shows that a country's citizens are willing to fight to the end, against those who have 'invaded' their country. If the USA were invaded - we would be doing the same exact thing.

A long held theory was that if we engage with a non democracy like China or Afghanistan they will gradually become a democracy. We overestimated the degree to which technology could replace dedicated boots on the ground. Remember the academic Whizz Kids war planners in Vietnam. The experts were reluctant to give up their theories. How wrong they were. Our soldiers paid the price.

[barbnick]

We get enough bad news from the media. Why is it necessary to post any of it? We all know what is happening.
I want more discussion about our local situations please

[Jacob85]

I knew it would take long for people to start complaining about something

[Lindsyburnsy]

Actually women’s groups are.

We never had a chance to replace their govt along term. Strange that feminists are not jumping up and down over what is going to happen to females over there.

[Lindsyburnsy]

Sounds like the outgoing Afghan leader absconded with lots of cash that we taxpayers sent there to be used for the people. So at least one person is doing well. QUOTE=Toymeister;1990608]I was in Afghanistan 16 months ago. Since 2010 I have spent 2 1/2 years there I never found it to be beautiful or even remotely charming.

When we entered in 2001 our mission was to prevent Afghanistan from being a launching point for terrorists. Had we kept that in mind there would be no loss of focus or as much of a financial waste.

This may sound brutal but it is not worth the loss of one American life to ensure girls can go to school when their own families don't want that.

There is no history or desire for democracy there, there is no overwhelming commitment for national security or even a national sense of pride of any significant depth. We were chumps for believing it was even possible to extoll American beliefs there.

Afghanistan GNP is ONE TENTH of it's spending. There is no way the country can survive without international welfare.[/QUOTE]

[ThirdOfFive]

The initial post is correct. Taliban mulls are flooding the West with heroin to shore up Afghan economy. Drugs will continue to hit our street no matter where they come from. We have spent endless amount and years trying to stop it with no avail. This like most things is a supply and demand issue. We have to discover a way to replace the demand. Either a drug, some sort of surgical implants or really go futuristic a VR headset, something to break the dependence on these types of drugs. Because after all this time and money we have to admit whatever we are doing is not working.
I agree that something must be done. However to attack this from the criminal angle has been fruitless. The "War on Drugs" was declared in 1972 and we've been losing ever since. If you've been losing a war for half a century the logical thing to do is to throw in the towel and accept defeat.

What to do? Decriminalize heroin. Decriminalize ALL drugs. Make them legal, freely available and cheap. And at the same time make treatment for drug addiction freely available and cheap (or free, if need be). Realistically, the only way you can get treatment for an addiction to an illegal drug is to admit to USING an illegal drug, which is tantamount to admitting to a crime--and a lot of addicts, even though they know they need treatment, will not get it because of this fact, or continue to get high just to hide from it.

Such a move would make any effort by the Taliban to flood a country will illegal drugs moot. AND it would end the criminal activity by the drug cartels from south of the border here, as well. Win win.

This idiotic war on drugs has cost the American taxpayer far more money, and American citizens far more in deaths, shattered families and ruined lives, then drugs themselves ever did. Or could.

[Stu from NYC]

I agree that something must be done. However to attack this from the criminal angle has been fruitless. The "War on Drugs" was declared in 1972 and we've been losing ever since. If you've been losing a war for half a century the logical thing to do is to throw in the towel and accept defeat.

What to do? Decriminalize heroin. Decriminalize ALL drugs. Make them legal, freely available and cheap. And at the same time make treatment for drug addiction freely available and cheap (or free, if need be). Realistically, the only way you can get treatment for an addiction to an illegal drug is to admit to USING an illegal drug, which is tantamount to admitting to a crime--and a lot of addicts, even though they know they need treatment, will not get it because of this fact, or continue to get high just to hide from it.

Such a move would make any effort by the Taliban to flood a country will illegal drugs moot. AND it would end the criminal activity by the drug cartels from south of the border here, as well. Win win.

This idiotic war on drugs has cost the American taxpayer far more money, and American citizens far more in deaths, shattered families and ruined lives, then drugs themselves ever did. Or could.

Sad but you are correct.

[Worldseries27]

a long held theory was that if we engage with a non democracy like china or afghanistan they will gradually become a democracy. We overestimated the degree to which technology could replace dedicated boots on the ground. Remember the academic whizz kids war planners in vietnam. The experts were reluctant to give up their theories. How wrong they were. Our soldiers paid the price.. A la the domino theory which caused the korean and vietnam wars so to the afghanistan conflicts were a means to a geopolitical victory over the ussr.
The elder combatants and leaders of the current taliban were the same teenage boys in the 1980's , who armed by the cia with lethal stinger missiles climbed to the mountaintops and cost the soviets billions of dollars monthly by shooting down their aircraft and troops supplies. This event is one of the preminent reasons the ussr collapsed financially hastening the implosion of the ussr.
The rest is details, not to us average citizens, but to our government leadership hence the term given to those killed and injured as " collateral damage". This geopolitical conflict is always ongoing eg middle east and the china sea.
This current afghanistan war was punishment for aiding and abetting the 9/11 attack. Mission accomplished and over.

[jimjamuser]

We never had a chance to replace their govt along term. Strange that feminists are not jumping up and down over what is going to happen to females over there.
I disagree with the contents of this post.

[jimjamuser]

Very true.
A US Army soldier was on patrol and in a relaxed moment, he talked to an Afghan soldier with his unit. They started talking about the stars. The US soldier came to realize that the Afghan soldier had zero concept about the solar system. The Afghan soldiers did not understand what any of the numbers on their paychecks meant. So, Afghanistan really was a series of tribes only a little removed from the dark ages. Reasonable goals would have been to wipe out the terrorist camps, find bin Laden, and LEAVE. You can't nation-build a country that is not ready to be a nation. The CIA gets a big budget every year - either they dropped the ball or US leaders refused to listen to them 17 years ago.

[merrymini]

The elements of batteries can be found in Afghanistan. You can bet your bottom dollar that china and russia will be making deals to get at it.

[tvbound]

It's time to get some drones filled with Agent Orange or some other defoliant and hit the poppy fields.

The poppy fields should have been destroyed before we left. Didn't do it then, do it now!

As good as it may sound on the surface, it's a really, really bad idea in reality. The last thing Afghanistan needs now, is to destroy their primary source of income, regardless of how one views on how it is derived. Talk about opening the floodgates to nefarious terrorist groups that have money, to move in and partner with the warlords, just remove the only way the average poor Afghani has to make a few bucks. Talk about utter chaos and the terrorist threats that would develop toward the rest of the world - that's the quickest way to do it. Which is exactly the reason even we didn't make a big push, to destroy all of the poppy fields.

[Taltarzac725]

Please Wait... | Cloudflare (https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/History/Afghanistan-history.htm)

Might be useful in this discussion.

[SacDQ]

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. Abraham Lincoln

[jimjamuser]

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. Abraham Lincoln
I agree with the contents of this post.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

My father was a British soldier in the 1920's, and was stationed in India and Afganistan.
The only thing he ever told me was that the Afgans only stopped fighting each other, to have a pop at the local British garrison.
He also said it was the most beautiful country he ever saw.
The saying about the people was, "You can buy an Afgan, but you will never own one!"
Not much has changed, and given our history in the place, I was truly surprised our government ever put troops back into the country.
But who looks at, or takes notice of history books any more?

I love this perspective as that area of the world is resource poor for international trade and production. But the religion and the political system are the same, which makes for an ideology leadership, different from the western world of former british empire break aways and western europe.

As an ideological lead state, it carries the sins of 2,000 years with them everywhere they go. They want to fit in, but have the ideology stuck in their way. . . so they rule by power and struggle for power throughout the region. . . as they have ideology stuck in their way with the sins of 2,000 years. . .

a game or war which can't be won by humans as humans have the memories. . .

[Taltarzac725]

The Great Courses (https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/american-military-history-from-colonials-to-counterinsurgents)

This might be worth a look especially the chapter on Afghanistan and Iraq.

The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 sparked a U.S. military response like no other, combining overwhelming air power against the terrorist regime in Afghanistan, along with special forces and allied units on the ground. Also chart the 2003 invasion of Iraq, another success in regime change. Unfortunately, initial victory in both cases evolved into a no-win struggle with insurgents.

[Janet1946]

Thank you for posting this. I totally agree.

[Luggage]

It's fairly obvious that the original mission was to kill terrorists, and of course they didn't like that, some have the mission expanded and nobody bothered to complain like they did in the Vietnam days (moderator I'm not being political).
We seem to have been let on a chain to discuss poppy fields, well there are a lot more worse things than cheap heroin and I in fact think if it was cheap we have a lot less crime. If you follow TV news about drugs and I mean the rabbit ears TVs, and you know Americans have a lot more problems like oxycodone, drunk drivers that still kill and these little sticks called cigarettes. The Taliban that have just done a public service announcement seem to understand how America works by Allaying fears and allowing others to leave or at least saying they will give them that chance. Who is to say what type of civilization and culture is the right one my wife may not like hearing it but there's about a billion Muslims that live with the wife staying at home with a veil and not learning much education. Star Trek pretty much I had a rule that we have learned not to touch the other civilizations because they have to grow up as they want to and every time we interfere we will be screw up. Was Afghanistan a better place 20 years ago without US troops? We will never know what will become of that area of the world has surely we will never go back there again with American troops unless unfortunately God forbid they would be another 9/11 in which case I fear some president would use an atomic bomb to simply wipe all the Muslims off the face of the Earth. Again dear moderator I'm not being political

[Luggage]

This was voice typed and I'm sure there was some commas and plurals missing so dear School teachers don't be upset

[Woodchopper545]

Daily Sun newspaper has had NO front page or second page coverage about the Afghanistan disaster! Only COVID COVID COVID!

[fcgiii]

You're confused. That only applies to what our government can do to its citizens, NOT to how a private entity (such as this site) or a company - can do to its members/employees.

If you want political discussions you can always use Facebook or Twitter.

No ..... wait .....

[CoachKandSportsguy]

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. Abraham Lincoln

"Our own worst enemy", by Tom Nichols, published this month

[Bay Kid]

Who is in charge of the taliban?

[Marine1974]

I don’t think flooding the west with Heroin is a new thing .

[Woodchopper545]

The Daily Sun newspaper still has no coverage about the Afghanistan disaster. No information on the thousands or our men and women soldiers there to protect and evacuate the ten to forty thousand Americans still sheltering in place in Afghanistan.

[Byte1]

After all the military equipment that we have provided, there is no excuse for them to turn tail and run and not protect their own Freedom. If they won't fight for their own country, there is no reason we should. As for the heroin, that could easily be napalmed into extinction. It is amazing what unmanned drones can do today. That country is useless and nothing more than a money pit; a hole in the ground where we throw trillions into, hoping to fill it in.

[Woodchopper545]

10,000 Americans still stuck there.

Ten to forty thousand.

[nhtexasrn]

Twenty years and two trillion dollars for an inevitable outcome. We didn't learn from the French regarding Vietnam or the Russians regarding Afghanistan.

But, we actually did make a difference in that country. Women had freedoms, were respected and involved, even in politics, and little girls were going to school. People were happier, now they are terrified. Its already starting to change. There was a woman shot and killed 2 days ago because she didn't wear a burka. That's what bothers me the most.

[graciegirl]

A song from The Kingston Trio in 1959.

Some things don't change much.


Kingston Trio. The Merry Minuet. - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Kingston+Trio.+The+Merry+Minuet.&view=detail&mid=84B4F582CD96D212915A84B4F582CD96D212915A&FORM=VIRE0&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dKingston%2bTrio.%2bThe%2bMerry% 2bMinuet.%26cvid%3d300f16ae9bec45789d06c8b69a2493b 9%26aqs%3dedge..69i57j0l2.12235j0j1%26pglt%3d139%2 6FORM%3dANSPA1%26PC%3dDCTS)

[Woodchopper545]

Every word you wrote is delusional. Our government went in there and tried to change the culture which they never should have done. I worked I Saudi Arabia for many years and I had Saudi coworkers that I got to know well and was introduced to the sons BUT I never met the female side of the family. I was invited to share meals and the men all ate first then the females got what was left. Bottom line, the Saudis are a very conservative culture BUT the Afghanistan people are still way more conservative than that. Afghanistan is still living several century’s in the past. The only thing they will do to become more modern is to pick up whatever technology that keeps them in power all the while clinging to their centuries old culture.

[Stu from NYC]

The Daily Sun newspaper still has no coverage about the Afghanistan disaster. No information on the thousands or our men and women soldiers there to protect and evacuate the ten to forty thousand Americans still sheltering in place in Afghanistan.

Your confusing the Sun with a newspaper that tries to inform its patrons.

It exists to tell us about what goes on here and whatever else the developer wants to inform us of. If it does not help to sell houses they see no reason to report on it.

[sshepard03]

I heard someone say, "...our Government is made up of smart people." He must have been a foreign visitor on holiday.

[SacDQ]

That’s interesting big brother is watching.Yet the Taliban are still allowed access on social media sights to spread their beliefs.

[golfing eagles]

I heard someone say, "...our Government is made up of smart people." He must have been a foreign visitor on holiday.

Or skipped his meds:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[ThirdOfFive]

It's fairly obvious that the original mission was to kill terrorists, and of course they didn't like that, some have the mission expanded and nobody bothered to complain like they did in the Vietnam days (moderator I'm not being political).
We seem to have been let on a chain to discuss poppy fields, well there are a lot more worse things than cheap heroin and I in fact think if it was cheap we have a lot less crime. If you follow TV news about drugs and I mean the rabbit ears TVs, and you know Americans have a lot more problems like oxycodone, drunk drivers that still kill and these little sticks called cigarettes. The Taliban that have just done a public service announcement seem to understand how America works by Allaying fears and allowing others to leave or at least saying they will give them that chance. Who is to say what type of civilization and culture is the right one my wife may not like hearing it but there's about a billion Muslims that live with the wife staying at home with a veil and not learning much education. Star Trek pretty much I had a rule that we have learned not to touch the other civilizations because they have to grow up as they want to and every time we interfere we will be screw up. Was Afghanistan a better place 20 years ago without US troops? We will never know what will become of that area of the world has surely we will never go back there again with American troops unless unfortunately God forbid they would be another 9/11 in which case I fear some president would use an atomic bomb to simply wipe all the Muslims off the face of the Earth. Again dear moderator I'm not being political
Excellent points made in the quoted post.

America is all too often blinded by her own ideals, going back to the Big Stick policy of Teddy Roosevelt and probably even before that. We seem to have this mindset that because our system of majority rule and free elections works so well for us, it will therefore work equally as well for everyone. No matter how often it is disproved, we still insist on it.

Iraq is a prime example, but not the only one by far. Gulf War I was justified; we were bound by treaty with an ally and we honored that. And even though it was unpopular at the time, stopping short of taking Baghdad and ousting Saddam Hussein was proven, in hindsight, to be the correct course of action as shown by the fiasco of Gulf War II and it's aftermath.

Again, blinded by idealism, we ousted the brutal dictator Saddam Hussein and forced a shiny new democracy on the Iraqis. Rule of law was going to triumph. Women were going to have equal rights and all. Everybody was going to have a say. And to emphasize the point, we hung Saddam and a fair number of his cronies, sat back and waited for this shiny new jewel of a democratic Iraq to take form and act as a beacon to the world. Except that it didn't. As brutal and cruel as he was, ol' Saddam knew precisely what it took to keep peace in Iraq. Before Gulf War II, Iraq was a country of relative peace; a secular country where all religions were tolerated (Saddam had Christians in high places in his government) and life, at least by the standards of the region, was pretty darn good. Of course, Saddam and his operatives had to rip out a few tongues and toss a few people off walls to keep it that way, but life was (relatively) good.

But today? Today, Iraq resembles Afghanistan far more than it resembles a western democracy. Rule by warlord and Islamic idealists predominates. There are many Iraqis who yearn for the good old days of Saddam Sussein. Things are bad and getting worse. In Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and quite a few other spots around the area and the world.

You cannot force a democracy, nor implement rule of law, on a people who do not want either. We've bollixed up the Middle East with our misdirected idealism. Time to get out, and to finally realize that we should be nowhere in the world militarily unless vital American interests are at stake. Let people rule themselves.

[GMIJFI]

Has anyone heard (from legitimate source) how much ((American) dollars the former president and his cronies absconded with when they fled the country? Wish we could somehow freeze their accounts to get it back

[dewilson58]

Has anyone heard (from legitimate source) how much ((American) dollars the former president and his cronies absconded with when they fled the country? Wish we could somehow freeze their accounts to get it back

A net worth of $5mil to $9mil, including real estate & other assets he could not take.

I don't think that is the real issue here.

:ohdear:

[newgirl]

We never had a chance to replace their govt along term. Strange that feminists are not jumping up and down over what is going to happen to females over there.

Why would you think they are not?

[I'm Popeye!]

This is not open mike night. TOTV is a privately run website with rules which include no political posts. But there are those that just can't help themselves and insert political posts into almost every thread, resulting in many of them getting closed by the moderators who are just doing their job.

Anyone who wants "free speech", are free to start their own web forum

I wrote what I wrote, so now I'll edit and take it back.
- sorry, you missed what I said -
.

[John41]

Who is in charge of the taliban?

A former terrorist who was held captive at Guantanamo then released in exchange for a US deserter. It’s possible some Americans will be held hostage to exchange for other terrorists in prison now or in the future.

[Woodchopper545]

Anyone who believes that the taliban will keep their word that they’ll allow safe passage does not understand the situation. First, the Koran and shariah law allows them to lie to infidels. Second, in the late 1800s the British negotiated a “safe withdrawal “ from an city in Afghanistan that they occupied. Part of the deal was to leave their weapons behind. Well, they packed up their wagons with women and children and wounded and the surviving military formed up and they all marched away from the shelter of their fortress. Somewhere along the route to safety the Afghans attacked the British and killed many of the men, women and children and wounded in the group.
The Afghanistan Taliban is not to be believed or trusted. They only understand strength and that must be backed up superior firepower.