Daily Sun inviting outside community to use Villages multi-modal paths?

[ribil]

On the cover page of today’s issue of The Daily Sun’s “Sound Clips”, there is an ad for Densan Park in Oxford. The ad states “Use a street legal golf cart to be in The Villages Community tunnels in a half a mile”. Our golf cart paths and tunnels were constructed and are maintained using our amenities fees and, as far as I know, are not public roads. We already know that “outsiders” frequent our pools without being checked; And we all remember our fiasco with the Stonecrest gate. So why do we pay all this extra cost to live in The Villages???

[I'm Popeye!]

The Media, what do you expect, they don't follow or care about rules.

[golfing eagles]

The Media, what do you expect, they don't follow or care about rules.

I just read it. It's not "the media", it's in the content of the ad. This "Densan Park" ad is telling people that if they live there, they can use a street legal golf cart to get into The Villages. I'm surprised the Daily Sun allowed this to be distributed with the paper. Legal action to follow????

[Topspinmo]

Who owns this “Densan park”? News papers sells adds, I doubt the newspaper’s are respond for content of the adds.

[Stu from NYC]

If the sun had a living breathing editor this would not have gotten into the paper.

Not in the developers best interest that people are encouraged to come here for the amenities while living elsewhere.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Heh I just called Desnan properties and talked to a girl who asked a guy in the same department and they're saying absolutely yes, street legal golf carts driven by people who don't live in the Villages can drive on all Villages-accessible golf cart paths including the golf cart tunnels. They say these are all public property.

I tried to tell them no, that's not the case, they are owned collectively by the Community District and not owned or maintained by the county but they just got snippy and apologized that their ad "upset" me.

[golfing eagles]

Heh I just called Desnan properties and talked to a girl who asked a guy in the same department and they're saying absolutely yes, street legal golf carts driven by people who don't live in the Villages can drive on all Villages-accessible golf cart paths including the golf cart tunnels. They say these are all public property.

I tried to tell them no, that's not the case, they are owned collectively by the Community District and not owned or maintained by the county but they just got snippy and apologized that their ad "upset" me.

Next step?

[Vermilion Villager]

I just went to their website. Haha!! Under shopping they show a pictures of Sumter Square....with golf carts. Somebody should tell The Villages management. If you can use the important amenities like the squares what is the point of living in TV? That's what I'm going to tell the agent who is looking for a home for me right now.

[Kenswing]

I just went to their website. Haha!! Under shopping they show a pictures of Sumter Square....with golf carts. Somebody should tell The Villages management. If you can use the important amenities like the squares what is the point of living in TV? That's what I'm going to tell the agent who is looking for a home for me right now.Well actually the squares are open to the public.

As far as the using the golf cart paths there are two issues. They are for residents only and the ad says you need a street legal cart to get here. Street legal carts aren't legal on the MMP's.

[golfing eagles]

I just went to their website. Haha!! Under shopping they show a pictures of Sumter Square....with golf carts. Somebody should tell The Villages management. If you can use the important amenities like the squares what is the point of living in TV? That's what I'm going to tell the agent who is looking for a home for me right now.

The squares ARE public---anyone can go there. The MMPs however are private and reserved for use by Villagers only. If the residents of Densan park want to go to the squares, they need to drive in their cars. It is highly unethical for this place to state you can get to the Villages "tunnels" via street legal golf cart. Also see the response OOB got from calling them.

To those who go to Doggie Doo Run Run, can you take a golf cart north on CR 101? What is the speed limit there?

And finally, I think this is an issue the Morse family should get involved in---I suspect they could squash that little development like a bug if they wanted to.

[SIRE1]

Since all of our roads, except those in the villa areas, are public roads I would expect it to be "legal" to drive a Street Legal cart anywhere in The Villages (including the town squares). But like a number of people have pointed out, that should not apply to the MMP's and tunnels. As far as I know, since the Street Legal cart has a Florida license plate for use on 35 mph streets, they should NOT be driving on the MMP paths ever, even if driven by a Villager. So I don't know how you could keep the their carts off our streets and out of our town squares. Remember, they can drive their car or motorcycle anywhere in The Villages and a Street Legal cart fits that criteria too.

[Mleeja]

On the cover page of today’s issue of The Daily Sun’s “Sound Clips”, there is an ad for Densan Park in Oxford. The ad states “Use a street legal golf cart to be in The Villages Community tunnels in a half a mile”. Our golf cart paths and tunnels were constructed and are maintained using our amenities fees and, as far as I know, are not public roads. We already know that “outsiders” frequent our pools without being checked; And we all remember our fiasco with the Stonecrest gate. So why do we pay all this extra cost to live in The Villages???

If you have a Street Legal cart, why bother using the MMP’s within TV? They can just drive on the street.

[tvbound]

Well actually the squares are open to the public.

As far as the using the golf cart paths there are two issues. They are for residents only and the ad says you need a street legal cart to get here. Street legal carts aren't legal on the MMP's.

Street legal carts aren't legal on the MMP's.

I don't recall seeing that in the various brochures/TV links online, so do you have a source you could show us? Thanks.

[Kenswing]

Street legal carts aren't legal on the MMP's.

I don't recall seeing that in the various brochures/TV links online, so do you have a source you could show us? Thanks.Rules of the road (https://www.districtgov.org/PdfView/PdfView.aspx?path=%27/PdfUpload/Golf%20Car%20Rules%20of%20the%20Road.pdf%27&ql=standard)

Golf Cart Requirements | The Villages Florida (https://thevillagesflorida.com/golf-cart-requirements/)

And

Multi-Modal Path Information and Safety (https://www.districtgov.org/community/MultiModal.aspx)

[ROCKMUP]

I just went to their website. Haha!! Under shopping they show a pictures of Sumter Square....with golf carts. Somebody should tell The Villages management. If you can use the important amenities like the squares what is the point of living in TV? That's what I'm going to tell the agent who is looking for a home for me right now.

Agreed.
We do not live in TV yet but in reading it sure seems like there is LOTS of outside usage, really makes us re think it some.

[JSR22]

I just went to their website. Haha!! Under shopping they show a pictures of Sumter Square....with golf carts. Somebody should tell The Villages management. If you can use the important amenities like the squares what is the point of living in TV? That's what I'm going to tell the agent who is looking for a home for me right now.
The Squares are not an amenity they are open to the public and so are all the restaurants.

[Bogie Shooter]

I just went to their website. Haha!! Under shopping they show a pictures of Sumter Square....with golf carts. Somebody should tell The Villages management. If you can use the important amenities like the squares what is the point of living in TV? That's what I'm going to tell the agent who is looking for a home for me right now.

The squares are open to the public.

[rhood]

Please cite the appropriate FL statute.


Rules of the road (https://www.districtgov.org/PdfView/PdfView.aspx?path=%27/PdfUpload/Golf%20Car%20Rules%20of%20the%20Road.pdf%27&ql=standard)

Golf Cart Requirements | The Villages Florida (https://thevillagesflorida.com/golf-cart-requirements/)

And

Multi-Modal Path Information and Safety (https://www.districtgov.org/community/MultiModal.aspx)

[golfing eagles]

The squares ARE public---anyone can go there. The MMPs however are private and reserved for use by Villagers only. If the residents of Densan park want to go to the squares, they need to drive in their cars. It is highly unethical for this place to state you can get to the Villages "tunnels" via street legal golf cart. Also see the response OOB got from calling them.

To those who go to Doggie Doo Run Run, can you take a golf cart north on CR 101? What is the speed limit there?

And finally, I think this is an issue the Morse family should get involved in---I suspect they could squash that little development like a bug if they wanted to.

Well actually the squares are open to the public.

As far as the using the golf cart paths there are two issues. They are for residents only and the ad says you need a street legal cart to get here. Street legal carts aren't legal on the MMP's.

The Squares are not an amenity they are open to the public and so are all the restaurants.

The squares are open to the public.

So, on the theme of posting without reading the thread, I have above my original post and three that followed within about a dozen posts. Maybe I'll make it 5 by repeating the squares are open to the public.

[Bogie Shooter]

Agreed.
We do not live in TV yet but in reading it sure seems like there is LOTS of outside usage, really makes us re think it some.

Don’t assume that outside usage is anywhere close to what some THINK.

[Kenswing]

Please cite the appropriate FL statute.
Low Speed and All-Terrain Vehicles - Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles (https://www.flhsmv.gov/safety-center/consumer-education/low-speed-vehicles/)

Anything else I need to look up for you guys? :1rotfl:

[Kenswing]

So, on the theme of posting without reading the thread, I have above my original post and three that followed within about a dozen posts. Maybe I'll make it 5 by repeating the squares are open to the public.

Except you posted AFTER I had already said the squares were open to the public. :1rotfl: :1rotfl: :1rotfl:

[golfing eagles]

Except you posted AFTER I had already said the squares were open to the public. :1rotfl: :1rotfl: :1rotfl:

Sort of, they popped in together. You must be a better typist:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

So you're exempt---there are still 2 others:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Aces4]

Don’t assume that outside usage is anywhere close to what some THINK.

One person from the outside is one too many. It only took one interloper to drive a cart wildly around a corner by Bridgeport to severely injure a Villager riding his bike and he incurred severe head injuries.

No sense getting your undies in a bundle. This has been discussed many times previously and The Villages doesn’t change anything. Pony up and let others enjoy, the current motto.

[Vermilion Villager]

Rules of the road (https://www.districtgov.org/PdfView/PdfView.aspx?path=%27/PdfUpload/Golf%20Car%20Rules%20of%20the%20Road.pdf%27&ql=standard)

Golf Cart Requirements | The Villages Florida (https://thevillagesflorida.com/golf-cart-requirements/)

And

Multi-Modal Path Information and Safety (https://www.districtgov.org/community/MultiModal.aspx)

Good information!!!
So in layman's terms, LSV's among other things are vehicles "capable" of speeds of excess of 20mph.

Florida Statute's and Villages rules are very clear: The multi-modal paths are for use by NON-AUTOMOTIVE traffic such as bicycles, golf carts, pedestrians, and skaters.

In the context of MMP's a LSV is the same as a smart car....capable of over 20mph. Therefore, A LSV CANNOT use the MMP even if it stays below the 20mph threshold, because it is "capable" of speeds in excess of that. :coolsmiley:

[Arctic Fox]

With 130,000 of us, are we really going to be adversely impacted by a few extra outsiders using the MMPs?

[Joe V.]

Next step?

Class action suit?

[Aces4]

With 130,000 of us, are we really going to be adversely impacted by a few extra outsiders using the MMPs?

And this is the type of pushback that was present other times this issue was discussed. Someone knows someone or lives outside the perimeters themselves and think Villagers should just suck up providing for the free loaders. Nothing changes, may as well go out and enjoy the weather.

[Vermilion Villager]

Question.....anyone know the posted speed limit on 101 by Denison Park?

[dewilson58]

The squares are open to the public.

I heard the Squares are open to the public.

[dewilson58]

Class action suit?

Might need a sign or two stating private property.

:shrug:

[Vermilion Villager]

Next step?

One person from the outside is one too many. It only took one interloper to drive a cart wildly around a corner by Bridgeport to severely injure a Villager riding his bike and he incurred severe head injuries.

No sense getting your undies in a bundle. This has been discussed many times previously and The Villages doesn’t change anything. Pony up and let others enjoy, the current motto.

Actually the developer was not aware of the ad by Denison Park....THEY ARE NOW!!!
So....Densan Park. There is one road from Densan Park to the entrances of The Villages....the two lane CR101. The speed limit is 35 so an LSV technically can drive on it....But I'm sure that not a pleasant ride. Most cars are going close to 50. Trust me... no ride on a public street is fun on a golf cart. So what do they do???? jump off on a MMP as quick as they can and take that to the square. Problem is that is the part is against the law, and Densan insinuating thru ads MMP's as a possibility I'm thinking will be dealt with pretty quick. The Developer has enough clout....raise the speed limit on CR101 to 40mph and problem solved....:boom:

[ROCKMUP]

Don’t assume that outside usage is anywhere close to what some THINK.

Understood but that thought comes from quite a few different sources than this board.

[Harry Gilbert]

Years ago I asked about ownership of the mmps here's the email.

During one of the previous dust ups I asked about MMP ownership. I emailed Ms Tutt and this is what I got.

Harry Gilbert
Dec 14, 2013, 9:08 AM
to janet.tutt

Ms Tutt,

I’ve been following the recent dust up on TOTV concerning the use of the Multi Model paths there. With the amount of opinions expressed that the paths were bought and now maintained through the use of amenity fees and the fact that the road system is County owned and maintained has garnered my curiosity. Here in NJ and from what I can find about most states, these types of trails are a gov’t function and not a homeowner owned property. So instead of trying to decide which of the opinions have merit I’ll come right out and ask. Are these paths privately owned and maintained by The Villages VCDD or are they part of the County transportation system?

Thank you for your time


Tutt, Janet <Janet.Tutt@districtgov.org>
Dec 15, 2013, 8:53 PM
to me

Good Evening,

The paths ARE owned by the Community Development Districts (which are government entities). They are maintained through the assessments (taxes) each of the Districts levy on residents annually. The “on road” paths are the responsibility of the government entity that owns the road.

Hopefully this helps.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Have a great week and happy holidays!

Janet



So Amenity fees are NOT used for the paths.
They are Gov't owned except for the new areas not yet turned over to a district

That would seem to make them public property and open to all.

[LuvtheVillages]

Years ago I asked about ownership of the mmps here's the email.

During one of the previous dust ups I asked about MMP ownership. I emailed Ms Tutt and this is what I got.

Harry Gilbert
Dec 14, 2013, 9:08 AM
to janet.tutt

Ms Tutt,

I’ve been following the recent dust up on TOTV concerning the use of the Multi Model paths there. With the amount of opinions expressed that the paths were bought and now maintained through the use of amenity fees and the fact that the road system is County owned and maintained has garnered my curiosity. Here in NJ and from what I can find about most states, these types of trails are a gov’t function and not a homeowner owned property. So instead of trying to decide which of the opinions have merit I’ll come right out and ask. Are these paths privately owned and maintained by The Villages VCDD or are they part of the County transportation system?

Thank you for your time


Tutt, Janet <Janet.Tutt@districtgov.org>
Dec 15, 2013, 8:53 PM
to me

Good Evening,

The paths ARE owned by the Community Development Districts (which are government entities). They are maintained through the assessments (taxes) each of the Districts levy on residents annually. The “on road” paths are the responsibility of the government entity that owns the road.

Hopefully this helps.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Have a great week and happy holidays!

Janet



So Amenity fees are NOT used for the paths.
They are Gov't owned except for the new areas not yet turned over to a district

That would seem to make them public property and open to all.


So they are maintained, not by the amenity fee, but by the annual maintenance assessment that each Village District levies on the annual property tax bill. Same result: they are bought, paid for and maintained by Villagers, for the use of Villagers. People outside the Villages are not participating in any of the costs of the multimodal paths.

They are Villages property through the CDD's, not public property, not Sumter County property, not City of Wildwood property, not State of Florida property.

[Joe V.]

Might need a sign or two stating private property.

:shrug:

Works for me.

[Bogie Shooter]

The squares are open to the public.

Sort of, they popped in together. You must be a better typist:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

So you're exempt---there are still 2 others:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I heard the Squares are open to the public.

Guilty as charged.:ohdear:
Broke my own rule of not reading all posts before posting.:shocked:
Will strive to do better in the future.:wave:

[dewilson58]

Works for me.

And Path Cops with spike strips.

:gc:

[golfing eagles]

Years ago I asked about ownership of the mmps here's the email.

During one of the previous dust ups I asked about MMP ownership. I emailed Ms Tutt and this is what I got.

Harry Gilbert
Dec 14, 2013, 9:08 AM
to janet.tutt

Ms Tutt,

I’ve been following the recent dust up on TOTV concerning the use of the Multi Model paths there. With the amount of opinions expressed that the paths were bought and now maintained through the use of amenity fees and the fact that the road system is County owned and maintained has garnered my curiosity. Here in NJ and from what I can find about most states, these types of trails are a gov’t function and not a homeowner owned property. So instead of trying to decide which of the opinions have merit I’ll come right out and ask. Are these paths privately owned and maintained by The Villages VCDD or are they part of the County transportation system?

Thank you for your time


Tutt, Janet <Janet.Tutt@districtgov.org>
Dec 15, 2013, 8:53 PM
to me

Good Evening,

The paths ARE owned by the Community Development Districts (which are government entities). They are maintained through the assessments (taxes) each of the Districts levy on residents annually. The “on road” paths are the responsibility of the government entity that owns the road.

Hopefully this helps.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Have a great week and happy holidays!

Janet



So Amenity fees are NOT used for the paths.
They are Gov't owned except for the new areas not yet turned over to a district

That would seem to make them public property and open to all.

It might SEEM that way, but maybe it isn't. Ms. Tutts response states the MMPs are maintained by taxes levied by the CDDs This is not the county in general or even the towns like Lady Lake, Wildwood and Fruitland Park. These are The Villages CDDs, all the residents in those CDDs are Villagers and therefore ALL those taxes are paid by Villagers. I don't know if that makes them "public" roads, even if you consider a CDD "government"

As an example, on the Atlantic shore of long Island is a beach named TOBAY, which stands for the Town of Oyster Bay. If you want to use that beach, you must be a resident of Oyster Bay. It's probably because the beach is maintained by taxes paid exclusively by residents of Oyster Bay and therefore they restricted use to residents only. It is possible that the MMPs fall into the same category, use restricted to residents only (with reciprocity to residents of other CDDs)

[dewilson58]

Unconfirmed, I heard the Squares are public.

:jester:

[golfing eagles]

Unconfirmed, I heard the Squares are public.

:jester:

I think I heard that too:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[thomp679]

This can't really be a problem that needs discussion.

Seems like most of you should have bought into a 'real' gated community based on your preceived view that you can go into their neighborhood, but don't dare come to mine. Can I use the overused adage that I see some of you use that 'if you don't like it, then you should move.'

Complain all you want, but the reality is you are wrong. If you can get to The Villages via an LSV legally @ 35 mph, then they can legally drive on the MMP. Oh...and before you start complaining too much, it seems all of you golf cart drivers that have their governers turned up to drive over 20 mph should think about paying their license fees and insurance otherwise you seem to be the only ones breaking the laws and rules in this post.

:boom: :boom:

[Topspinmo]

Well actually the squares are open to the public.

As far as the using the golf cart paths there are two issues. They are for residents only and the ad says you need a street legal cart to get here. Street legal carts aren't legal on the MMP's.


Street legal golf carts ARE legal on MMP. I find it funny that just cause they use them for golf they are legal.

[golfing eagles]

This can't really be a problem that needs discussion.

Seems like most of you should have bought into a 'real' gated community based on your preceived view that you can go into their neighborhood, but don't dare come to mine. Can I use the overused adage that I see some of you use that 'if you don't like it, then you should move.'

Complain all you want, but the reality is you are wrong. If you can get to The Villages via an LSV legally @ 35 mph, then they can legally drive on the MMP. Oh...and before you start complaining too much, it seems all of you golf cart drivers that have their governers turned up to drive over 20 mph should think about paying their license fees and insurance otherwise you seem to be the only ones breaking the laws and rules in this post.

:boom: :boom:

And your basis for that statement is........????

If you live in TV, then I can get to your property in a golf cart----does that mean I can drive around your house on your lawn? The question at hand is whether or not the MPPs are property that is restricted (legally) to use by Village residents only. I don't know. I very much doubt you know either The rest of that post is just blither-blather.

[Topspinmo]

This can't really be a problem that needs discussion.

Seems like most of you should have bought into a 'real' gated community based on your preceived view that you can go into their neighborhood, but don't dare come to mine. Can I use the overused adage that I see some of you use that 'if you don't like it, then you should move.'

Complain all you want, but the reality is you are wrong. If you can get to The Villages via an LSV legally @ 35 mph, then they can legally drive on the MMP. Oh...and before you start complaining too much, it seems all of you golf cart drivers that have their governers turned up to drive over 20 mph should think about paying their license fees and insurance otherwise you seem to be the only ones breaking the laws and rules in this post.

:boom: :boom:

LSV speed limit is 25MPH. But Nobody followed the LAW. Now it you meant travel on streets with speed limit 35 MPH or less I agree.

[Topspinmo]

Unconfirmed, I heard the Squares are public.

:jester:

You heard wrong, open to public.

[Harry Gilbert]

It might SEEM that way, but maybe it isn't. Ms. Tutts response states the MMPs are maintained by taxes levied by the CDDs This is not the county in general or even the towns like Lady Lake, Wildwood and Fruitland Park. These are The Villages CDDs, all the residents in those CDDs are Villagers and therefore ALL those taxes are paid by Villagers. I don't know if that makes them "public" roads, even if you consider a CDD "government"

As an example, on the Atlantic shore of long Island is a beach named TOBAY, which stands for the Town of Oyster Bay. If you want to use that beach, you must be a resident of Oyster Bay. It's probably because the beach is maintained by taxes paid exclusively by residents of Oyster Bay and therefore they restricted use to residents only. It is possible that the MMPs fall into the same category, use restricted to residents only (with reciprocity to residents of other CDDs)



The flip side to that would be central park in NYC, Paid for by New Yorkers but open to all. Or most parks in any other city.

[Bill14564]

Rules of the road (https://www.districtgov.org/PdfView/PdfView.aspx?path=%27/PdfUpload/Golf%20Car%20Rules%20of%20the%20Road.pdf%27&ql=standard)

Golf Cart Requirements | The Villages Florida (https://thevillagesflorida.com/golf-cart-requirements/)

And

Multi-Modal Path Information and Safety (https://www.districtgov.org/community/MultiModal.aspx)

Low Speed and All-Terrain Vehicles - Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles (https://www.flhsmv.gov/safety-center/consumer-education/low-speed-vehicles/)

Anything else I need to look up for you guys? :1rotfl:

Good information!!!
So in layman's terms, LSV's among other things are vehicles "capable" of speeds of excess of 20mph.

Florida Statute's and Villages rules are very clear: The multi-modal paths are for use by NON-AUTOMOTIVE traffic such as bicycles, golf carts, pedestrians, and skaters.

In the context of MMP's a LSV is the same as a smart car....capable of over 20mph. Therefore, A LSV CANNOT use the MMP even if it stays below the 20mph threshold, because it is "capable" of speeds in excess of that. :coolsmiley:

In none of those did I see anything that says LSVs cannot be used on the MMP. Sure, there are assertions and assumptions but nothing that says "MMPs are restricted to vehicles not capable of exceeding 20 mph." And, as pointed out by others, there are many "golf carts" out there today that should not be on the MMP if that is the case.

As far as keeping "those people" off the MMPs, be careful what you wish for. Until we start registering and tagging our Villager golf carts there is no way to tell a Villager cart from one of "those" carts. I would rather put up with non-Villager carts on the MMP than have yet another registration to deal with.

Oh yeah, in case no one has mentioned it yet.....

[tvbound]

Rules of the road (/PdfView/PdfView.aspx?path=%27/PdfUpload/Golf%20Car%20Rules%20of%20the%20Road.pdf%27&ql=standard)

Golf Cart Requirements | The Villages Florida (/golf-cart-requirements/)

And

Multi-Modal Path Information and Safety (/community/MultiModal.aspx)

I still don't see where it says specifically that 'street legal golf cars' are prohibited from using the MMP's. In fact, if you use your last link and click on "Multi-Modal Path Information and Safety" you can scroll down to a link titled "Share The Path," which is a letter to Janet Tutt from a Valerie Fuchs that makes the argument that a street legal 'golf car' should be considered a golf car and thus be able to use the MMP's. I can't find a response/rebuttal from Tutt, but since it is TV's own link - I would think that they are agreeing.


Share the Path

"Who is allowed to use the multi-modal paths throughout The Villages?” This is a question that the District receives on a regular basis. The multi-modal paths are for use by NON-AUTOMOTIVE traffic such as bicycles, golf carts, pedestrians, and skaters. It is not legal…nor is it smart…to drive vehicles such as smart cars, motorcycles, or mopeds on any of the multi-modal paths in The Villages. For additional information, please click on the header of this announcement to read a memo from District Counsel regarding the use of multi-modal paths. (Note the lack of reference to 'street legal golf cars')

Here's part of the actual pdf letter.

"To: Janet Tutt, District Manager
From: Valerie C. Fuchs, District Counsel
Date: July 6, 2010
Re: Multi-Modal Paths

MULTI-MODAL PATHS ("PATHS"): USES & ENFORCEMENT

I. WHAT FORMS OF TRANSPORTATION ARE ALLOWED ON THE PATHS
Village Community Development Districts No. 1 - 4 ("districts") were developed as mixed-use retirement communities pursuant to County and State approved development orders ("D.O.s"). These development orders require that the districts provide non-automotive, non-vehicular,
multi-modal paths for bicycles, pedestrians, skaters and golf carts. The D.O.s provide that the paths of one district shall connect to the existing system of multi-modal trails throughout the districts. Although I have not personally reviewed the development orders in connection with
the districts South of 466, I have been advised that the same provisions regarding the construction of multi-modal paths and the requirement that the paths provide a continuous connection with the paths North of 466 are contained therein. It is clear that the intent of the development orders is to provide a uniform system of multi-modal paths throughout the districts as alternative transportation routes for pedestrians and golfers to access The Villages' numerous golf courses and amenities. It is also clear that the paths shall be open for use by pedestrians,
skaters, bicycles and golf carts. The question has been asked whether other means of conveyances such as electric personal assistive mobility devices ("Segways"), mopeds, motorcycles, street legal golf carts and low speed vehicles ("LSV") can use the multi-modal paths. Unfortunately, the D.O.s do not provide a definition for "multi-modal path", "non-automotive", "non-vehicular" or "golf cart". I was unable to find a efinition for "multi-modal path" in any resource. Multi-modal transportation
refers to utilizing various modes of transportation and the D.O.s. at hand provide that the districts' paths shall be open for use by non-automotive, non-vehicular means of transportation including but not limited to bicycles, pedestrians, skaters and golf carts. The applicable county
codes and regulations provide some definitions regarding golf carts but they specifically pertain to golf cart use on county roads and are not on direct point with the issue at hand. The best resource for definitions is Florida Statutes and although the definitions are regarding the
regulation of the state's uniform traffic control on public streets and license requirements they can be used as guidance in answering this question. However, it should be noted that the
ultimate deciding authority in regards to what types of conveyances would constitute a violation of the D.O.s is the applicable governmental body that granted the development order.
"Vehicle" is statutorily defined as every device by which any person may be transported upon a highway. See, §316.003 (75) Florida Statutes ("F.S.") In regards to Segweys, Florida Statutes expressly provides that they are not "vehicles" or "motor vehicles" for purposes of the State Uniform Traffic Control regulations and are allowed to be operated on sidewalks and marked bicycle paths. See, §§316.003(21),(83) & §316.2068, F.S. Hence, Segways are non-vehicular, non-automotive and fit within the uses the districts .are required by the development orders to allow on the paths and to prohibit the same would be a
violation thereof. I have spoken to Lt. Wolfe, Sumter County Sheriffs Office and he advised that his office treats Segways as bicycles.
-
Motorcycles and mopeds are defined as vehicular. See, §§316.003 (22), (75) & (77), F.S.; §§ 320.01(27) & (28) F.S & §316.208, F.S. Thus, motorcycles and mopeds do not fit within the uses authorized by the D.O.s to be operated on the paths. It should be noted that the statutes
allow mopeds to utilize pedestrian sidewalks so long as they are being propelled solely by human power. See, §316.208(3) & (4), F.S. The same allowance would logically apply to the districts' paths.
A golf cart is statutorily defined as a "motor vehicle" designed and manufactured for operation on a golf course for sporting or recreational purposes and not a "vehicle" for transporting people on the highways unless a golf cart is made "street legal" by complying with certain statutory operational and safety requirements. See, §316.003(68), F.S.; §320.01 (22), F.S.; §320.02, F.S. & §326.212, F.S. Although, a golf cart can be made "street legal" upon meeting certain statutory operational and safety requirements allowing it be operated upon certain public roads it is my opinion that a street legal golf cart is still a "golf cart" for purposes of the D.O.s and is authorized by the D.O.s to utilize the paths. The D.O.s expressly allow golf carts on the districts' paths and do not make a distinction between street legal and non-street legal.

[tvbound]

In none of those did I see anything that says LSVs cannot be used on the MMP. Sure, there are assertions and assumptions but nothing that says "MMPs are restricted to vehicles not capable of exceeding 20 mph." And, as pointed out by others, there are many "golf carts" out there today that should not be on the MMP if that is the case.

As far as keeping "those people" off the MMPs, be careful what you wish for. Until we start registering and tagging our Villager golf carts there is no way to tell a Villager cart from one of "those" carts. I would rather put up with non-Villager carts on the MMP than have yet another registration to deal with.

Oh yeah, in case no one has mentioned it yet.....

"In none of those did I see anything that says LSVs cannot be used on the MMP. Sure, there are assertions and assumptions but nothing that says "MMPs are restricted to vehicles not capable of exceeding 20 mph."

Thank you, as that is exactly what I'm reading and seeing. If 'street legal golf cars' are prohibited from using the MMP's, there's lots of opportunities for TV to just say so - but I still haven't seen where they have done it.

[GrumpyOldMan]

You heard wrong, open to public.

I can confirm this - sort of. I was doing some candid street photography at Sumter Square one night and a Villages Security type came up and informed me it was private property and I was not allowed to be there taking photographs.

The law is clear that anyone can take anyones photograph as long as the photographer is on public property and the person being photographed can be seen from that public location.

So, the squares are "open to the public", but are private property.

(I walked back out on to the public roadway and continued taking photos)

[Topspinmo]

I can confirm this - sort of. I was doing some candid street photography at Sumter Square one night and a Villages Security type came up and informed me it was private property and I was not allowed to be there taking photographs.

The law is clear that anyone can take anyones photograph as long as the photographer is on public property and the person being photographed can be seen from that public location.

So, the squares are "open to the public", but are private property.

(I walked back out on to the public roadway and continued taking photos)

I think I’m starting to like grumpy old men! :duck:

[golfing eagles]

The flip side to that would be central park in NYC, Paid for by New Yorkers but open to all. Or most parks in any other city.

Maybe, maybe not. Does NYC get any state or federal funds for Central Park??? I don't know. And the flip side of the flip side is that it is possible that the sole funding entity MAY restrict use, but does not HAVE to.

[tvbound]

I can confirm this - sort of. I was doing some candid street photography at Sumter Square one night and a Villages Security type came up and informed me it was private property and I was not allowed to be there taking photographs.

The law is clear that anyone can take anyones photograph as long as the photographer is on public property and the person being photographed can be seen from that public location.

So, the squares are "open to the public", but are private property.

(I walked back out on to the public roadway and continued taking photos)

Clever, I like it. lol

[Aces4]

This can't really be a problem that needs discussion.

Seems like most of you should have bought into a 'real' gated community based on your preceived view that you can go into their neighborhood, but don't dare come to mine. Can I use the overused adage that I see some of you use that 'if you don't like it, then you should move.'

Complain all you want, but the reality is you are wrong. If you can get to The Villages via an LSV legally @ 35 mph, then they can legally drive on the MMP. Oh...and before you start complaining too much, it seems all of you golf cart drivers that have their governers turned up to drive over 20 mph should think about paying their license fees and insurance otherwise you seem to be the only ones breaking the laws and rules in this post.

:boom: :boom:



Awww, sounds like someone is sorry they bought outside the bubble.:duck:

[Aces4]

In none of those did I see anything that says LSVs cannot be used on the MMP. Sure, there are assertions and assumptions but nothing that says "MMPs are restricted to vehicles not capable of exceeding 20 mph." And, as pointed out by others, there are many "golf carts" out there today that should not be on the MMP if that is the case.

As far as keeping "those people" off the MMPs, be careful what you wish for. Until we start registering and tagging our Villager golf carts there is no way to tell a Villager cart from one of "those" carts. I would rather put up with non-Villager carts on the MMP than have yet another registration to deal with.

Oh yeah, in case no one has mentioned it yet.....


Register and tag, I’m all for it. People fighting it don’t live in The Villages for the most part.

[ribil]

With 130,000 of us, are we really going to be adversely impacted by a few extra outsiders using the MMPs?

Then I assume you wouldn’t have a problem paying my amenities fees for me so I can use all them for free! Thank you!

[Topspinmo]

I still don't see where it says specifically that 'street legal golf cars' are prohibited from using the MMP's. In fact, if you use your last link and click on "Multi-Modal Path Information and Safety" you can scroll down to a link titled "Share The Path," which is a letter to Janet Tutt from a Valerie Fuchs that makes the argument that a street legal 'golf car' should be considered a golf car and thus be able to use the MMP's. I can't find a response/rebuttal from Tutt, but since it is TV's own link - I would think that they are agreeing.


Share the Path

"Who is allowed to use the multi-modal paths throughout The Villages?” This is a question that the District receives on a regular basis. The multi-modal paths are for use by NON-AUTOMOTIVE traffic such as bicycles, golf carts, pedestrians, and skaters. It is not legal…nor is it smart…to drive vehicles such as smart cars, motorcycles, or mopeds on any of the multi-modal paths in The Villages. For additional information, please click on the header of this announcement to read a memo from District Counsel regarding the use of multi-modal paths. (Note the lack of reference to 'street legal golf cars')

Here's part of the actual pdf letter.

"To: Janet Tutt, District Manager
From: Valerie C. Fuchs, District Counsel
Date: July 6, 2010
Re: Multi-Modal Paths

MULTI-MODAL PATHS ("PATHS"): USES & ENFORCEMENT

I. WHAT FORMS OF TRANSPORTATION ARE ALLOWED ON THE PATHS
Village Community Development Districts No. 1 - 4 ("districts") were developed as mixed-use retirement communities pursuant to County and State approved development orders ("D.O.s"). These development orders require that the districts provide non-automotive, non-vehicular,
multi-modal paths for bicycles, pedestrians, skaters and golf carts. The D.O.s provide that the paths of one district shall connect to the existing system of multi-modal trails throughout the districts. Although I have not personally reviewed the development orders in connection with
the districts South of 466, I have been advised that the same provisions regarding the construction of multi-modal paths and the requirement that the paths provide a continuous connection with the paths North of 466 are contained therein. It is clear that the intent of the development orders is to provide a uniform system of multi-modal paths throughout the districts as alternative transportation routes for pedestrians and golfers to access The Villages' numerous golf courses and amenities. It is also clear that the paths shall be open for use by pedestrians,
skaters, bicycles and golf carts. The question has been asked whether other means of conveyances such as electric personal assistive mobility devices ("Segways"), mopeds, motorcycles, street legal golf carts and low speed vehicles ("LSV") can use the multi-modal paths. Unfortunately, the D.O.s do not provide a definition for "multi-modal path", "non-automotive", "non-vehicular" or "golf cart". I was unable to find a efinition for "multi-modal path" in any resource. Multi-modal transportation
refers to utilizing various modes of transportation and the D.O.s. at hand provide that the districts' paths shall be open for use by non-automotive, non-vehicular means of transportation including but not limited to bicycles, pedestrians, skaters and golf carts. The applicable county
codes and regulations provide some definitions regarding golf carts but they specifically pertain to golf cart use on county roads and are not on direct point with the issue at hand. The best resource for definitions is Florida Statutes and although the definitions are regarding the
regulation of the state's uniform traffic control on public streets and license requirements they can be used as guidance in answering this question. However, it should be noted that the
ultimate deciding authority in regards to what types of conveyances would constitute a violation of the D.O.s is the applicable governmental body that granted the development order.
"Vehicle" is statutorily defined as every device by which any person may be transported upon a highway. See, §316.003 (75) Florida Statutes ("F.S.") In regards to Segweys, Florida Statutes expressly provides that they are not "vehicles" or "motor vehicles" for purposes of the State Uniform Traffic Control regulations and are allowed to be operated on sidewalks and marked bicycle paths. See, §§316.003(21),(83) & §316.2068, F.S. Hence, Segways are non-vehicular, non-automotive and fit within the uses the districts .are required by the development orders to allow on the paths and to prohibit the same would be a
violation thereof. I have spoken to Lt. Wolfe, Sumter County Sheriffs Office and he advised that his office treats Segways as bicycles.
-
Motorcycles and mopeds are defined as vehicular. See, §§316.003 (22), (75) & (77), F.S.; §§ 320.01(27) & (28) F.S & §316.208, F.S. Thus, motorcycles and mopeds do not fit within the uses authorized by the D.O.s to be operated on the paths. It should be noted that the statutes
allow mopeds to utilize pedestrian sidewalks so long as they are being propelled solely by human power. See, §316.208(3) & (4), F.S. The same allowance would logically apply to the districts' paths.
A golf cart is statutorily defined as a "motor vehicle" designed and manufactured for operation on a golf course for sporting or recreational purposes and not a "vehicle" for transporting people on the highways unless a golf cart is made "street legal" by complying with certain statutory operational and safety requirements. See, §316.003(68), F.S.; §320.01 (22), F.S.; §320.02, F.S. & §326.212, F.S. Although, a golf cart can be made "street legal" upon meeting certain statutory operational and safety requirements allowing it be operated upon certain public roads it is my opinion that a street legal golf cart is still a "golf cart" for purposes of the D.O.s and is authorized by the D.O.s to utilize the paths. The D.O.s expressly allow golf carts on the districts' paths and do not make a distinction between street legal and non-street legal.


Lots of opinions is that. Now about every mode of transportation is electrified. Large majority don’t fit any description of above.

[Topspinmo]

Register and tag, I’m all for it. People fighting it don’t live in The Villages for the most part.

Wrong, opinion again.

[Aces4]

Wrong, opinion again.

Right, and I’m entitled to my opinion.:clap2:

[rhood]

You say against the law ? What FL statute are you citing ?


Actually the developer was not aware of the ad by Denison Park....THEY ARE NOW!!!
So....Densan Park. There is one road from Densan Park to the entrances of The Villages....the two lane CR101. The speed limit is 35 so an LSV technically can drive on it....But I'm sure that not a pleasant ride. Most cars are going close to 50. Trust me... no ride on a public street is fun on a golf cart. So what do they do???? jump off on a MMP as quick as they can and take that to the square. Problem is that is the part is against the law, and Densan insinuating thru ads MMP's as a possibility I'm thinking will be dealt with pretty quick. The Developer has enough clout....raise the speed limit on CR101 to 40mph and problem solved....:boom:

[Arctic Fox]

With 130,000 of us, are we really going to be adversely impacted by a few extra outsiders using the MMPs?

And this is the type of pushback that was present other times this issue was discussed.

Pushback? No, just a positive attitude that lets me enjoy my retirement without treating every molehill as a mountain that needs to be obsessed over.

[Aces4]

Pushback? No, just a positive attitude that lets me enjoy my retirement without treating every molehill as a mountain that needs to be obsessed over.

And that is much easier if you haven’t been severely injured by a non-villager trespassing on the multimodal paths, right?

[Arctic Fox]

With 130,000 of us, are we really going to be adversely impacted by a few extra outsiders using the MMPs?

Then I assume you wouldn’t have a problem paying my amenities fees for me so I can use all them for free! Thank you!

As many others have pointed out already, outsiders are not prevented from visiting The Villages in cars, so promoting their getting here in carts is not going to cause huge numbers to flood our sporting facilities. Propose increased checking of IDs if you like, but potentially a few extra carts on the MMPs is really not a big deal.

[Aces4]

As many others have pointed out already, outsiders are not prevented from visiting The Villages in cars, so promoting their getting here in carts is not going to cause huge numbers to flood our sporting facilities. Propose increased checking of IDs if you like, but potentially a few extra carts on the MMPs is really not a big deal.

Far more than a few and do you seriously think outsiders care and respect your investment in The Villages and they don’t even know the mmp rules, how safe is that?

[Bill14564]

Far more than a few and do you seriously think outsiders care and respect your investment in The Villages and they don’t even know the mmp rules, how safe is that?

That's two polls I've missed so far, the one that shows most of those who would fight registration and tagging are from outside the Villages and the one that identified that more than a few outsiders run their carts on the MMPs.

Just curious, what are the secret MMP rules that only Villagers are aware of?

[Aces4]

That's two polls I've missed so far, the one that shows most of those who would fight registration and tagging are from outside the Villages and the one that identified that more than a few outsiders run their carts on the MMPs.

Just curious, what are the secret MMP rules that only Villagers are aware of?

If you don’t know them, you shouldn’t be on the mmps.

And for the record, I have known two outsiders in my small circle who come and use the mmps and would hate any restrictions for non-Villagers. The nicest part is when they brag they don’t have to pay those Villages cost of living prices.

[EdFNJ]

Well actually the squares are open to the public.

As far as the using the golf cart paths there are two issues. They are for residents only and the ad says you need a street legal cart to get here. Street legal carts aren't legal on the MMP's. Actually the highlighted part is NOT true. Aside from the fact there are probably dozens (hundreds?) who use them all the time they are specifically PERMITTED since 2010. They can also use the golf courses as long as they stay off the grass OR have turf-tires.

Go here: Multi-Modal Path Information and Safety (https://www.districtgov.org/community/MultiModal.aspx) then clock on the "SHARE THE PATH" headline. Here is a pertinent clip from that:

The intent of the multi-modal paths appears to be to provide alternative multi-modal transportation routes for pedestrians and golfers to access The Villages' numerous golf courses and amenities, without having to access the public highways. While LSV's were not in existence at the time the D.O.s were approved, "golf carts" are identified as a motor vehicle that is a permitted use under the D.O.s. Both traditional golf
carts and LSV's are used for golf-related purposes. It should be noted that The Villages' golf courses allow LSV' s meeting certain standards to utilize the golf courses. furthermore, golfrelated vehicles, including LSV' s ( since they came into existence) have been allowed to use the multi-modal paths. In view of the forgoing, a strong argument and fair interpretation of the intent of the D.O.s is that LSV's are a type of vehicle that fit within the definition of "golf cart" for purposes of establishing the permitted uses of the multi-modal paths.


An LSV and Golf cart can be the same identical vehicle except the GC can't exceed 20mph and the LSV can't exceed 25mph by law (plus the LSV version of the GC needs license plates & insurance and some specific safety features) and pays about 10x the insurance rate of the true GC.

[Vermilion Villager]

You say against the law ? What FL statute are you citing ?

FL Statute 320.01(41)
LSVs may be operated only on streets where the posted speed limit is 35 MPH or less and must be equipped with the following safety equipment:
Controlling word is "Streets".

Multi Modal Paths (MMP's) are NOT streets...they are paths Non automotive vehicles like golf carts can operate on MMP's. LSV can't.

[thomp679]

Awww, sounds like someone is sorry they bought outside the bubble.:duck:

Sorry to disappoint, but I do live in the bubble. I just don't get upset about trivial issues like some. This rant comes up every so often. I have yet to see a problem being caused by all of these 'outsiders'. It seems some that buy into the bubble expect to have special treatment. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Bilyclub]

FL Statute 320.01(41)
LSVs may be operated only on streets where the posted speed limit is 35 MPH or less and must be equipped with the following safety equipment:
Controlling word is "Streets".

Multi Modal Paths (MMP's) are NOT streets...they are paths Non automotive vehicles like golf carts can operate on MMP's. LSV can't.

If the MMP's are private property whatever the owner allows can operate on them. Perhaps you missed the post where the "owner" stated:
In view of the forgoing, a strong argument and fair interpretation of the intent of the D.O.s is that LSV's are a type of vehicle that fit within the definition of "golf cart" for purposes of establishing the permitted uses of the multi-modal paths.

[EdFNJ]

FL Statute 320.01(41)
LSVs may be operated only on streets where the posted speed limit is 35 MPH or less and must be equipped with the following safety equipment:
Controlling word is "Streets".

Multi Modal Paths (MMP's) are NOT streets...they are paths Non automotive vehicles like golf carts can operate on MMP's. LSV can't. Aside from the fact The Villages SPECIFICALLY permit "LSVs" on the MMPs (see post #68) the State of FL laws have zero control over what type of vehicle can or cannot be driven on the MMP's which are private paths on private property. The statute you (correctly) quoted only applies to the public roads.

[Aces4]

Sorry to disappoint, but I do live in the bubble. I just don't get upset about trivial issues like some. This rant comes up every so often. I have yet to see a problem being caused by all of these 'outsiders'. It seems some that buy into the bubble expect to have special treatment. Sorry to burst your bubble.

My bubble is intact, thank you for your concern. We have guests coming in to town and they will be staying with you unless you feel entitled to “special treatment” from “outsiders”. What’s yours is mine after all.:MOJE_whot:

[Two Bills]

FL Statute 320.01(41)
LSVs may be operated only on streets where the posted speed limit is 35 MPH or less and must be equipped with the following safety equipment:
Controlling word is "Streets".

Multi Modal Paths (MMP's) are NOT streets...they are paths Non automotive vehicles like golf carts can operate on MMP's. LSV can't.

Selective highlighting.
The whole sentence is the statement.

[thevillages2013]

If you have a Street Legal cart, why bother using the MMP’s within TV? They can just drive on the street.

According to my understanding a street legal cart can’t drive on a 45mph road but can cross it so from Densan Park they can get to all three town squares without going through a tunnel

[sam&rog]

Walking on the power corridor trail in Briar Meadow.
Frequently there are street legal carts, registered Atomic vehicles, scooters using the trail as a short cut.
So much for following the rules.





Well actually the squares are open to the public.

As far as the using the golf cart paths there are two issues. They are for residents only and the ad says you need a street legal cart to get here. Street legal carts aren't legal on the MMP's.

[Ginsanders]

We have also seen people drive a golf cart on side of road, from Plantation RV park at corner of 466 and Rolling Acres, cross over to the driving range and proceed to The Villages, laughing all the way! This family told us they do it all the time. Should not be allowed.

[Luggage]

If you feel that you don't want us in the squares then please stay out of our restaurants that you crowd in the winter. I guess you don't want us to support your restaurants and your stores.
The Squares are not an amenity , they are open to the public and so are all the restaurants.

[billlaur]

they r open to public,but the squares r private property..

[crash]

I just went to their website. Haha!! Under shopping they show a pictures of Sumter Square....with golf carts. Somebody should tell The Villages management. If you can use the important amenities like the squares what is the point of living in TV? That's what I'm going to tell the agent who is looking for a home for me right now.

The squares are not an amenity they are public property.

[golfing eagles]

The squares are not an amenity they are public property.

Actually, as I understand it, the roads around the square, the stores and restaurants are public. The actual square area in the middle is private property. But I'm not sure

[bowlingal]

Easy answer....go to the golf cart seminar that is offered every month and find out the TRUTH about all the rules pertaining to golf carts and where they can and can't go

[dewilson58]

Actually, as I understand it, the roads around the square, the stores and restaurants are public. The actual square area in the middle is private property. But I'm not sure

The actual squares are private property.
Stores & restaurants are private property too.
Streets are public.

[Randyj66]

Be careful what we wish for. So everyone wants stricter rules regarding golf carts and lsv's? So how bout we enforce all the traffic laws in TV including DUI and DWI while driving those vehicles? Oh no! Can of worms!

[LateBoomer]

but let's say sure outsiders shouldn't use the paths. how can anyone stop them??? why even try? what's the point? Do we need checkpoints at every entry point of the villages? That would be silly

[Lindaws]

Squares, restaurants, shopping, country clubs, all entertainment open to anyone.

[golfing eagles]

Be careful what we wish for. So everyone wants stricter rules regarding golf carts and lsv's? So how bout we enforce all the traffic laws in TV including DUI and DWI while driving those vehicles? Oh no! Can of worms!

I think this thread (like many) has lost its way. The topic was a concern that a new development adjacent to TV was advertising that their residents could get to TV "tunnels" in a street legal golf cart.

The issue raised was whether "outsiders" could use our MMPs, are they "private" or "restricted use" by residents. And then it veered off to the squares. The squares are open to the public, and if the MMPs are the issues, a LSV can just use streets to get to a square.

However, the bigger implication is whether those "outsiders" would attempt to use our pools, rec centers, and golf after hours. Some posters here think it is a big problem, others not so much. Personally I think even one "interloper" is too many---not just because we pay for those amenities, we think of them as our own and are less likely to damage or abuse them, but the liability involved. In today's litiginous society, I can see an outsider hurting themselves at OUR amenities, then suing, with the argument "you should have kept me out". Some nutty jury would buy that, especially if it was made up of non-Villagers.

[LateBoomer]

I agree. as the area that surrounds TV grows, there's going to be more outsiders and yes, there is no control over things like the paths, the pools, etc. but what's the solution? How does one control access when County roads run all through TV? it's not feasible.

[Dana1963]

On the cover page of today’s issue of The Daily Sun’s “Sound Clips”, there is an ad for Densan Park in Oxford. The ad states “Use a street legal golf cart to be in The Villages Community tunnels in a half a mile”. Our golf cart paths and tunnels were constructed and are maintained using our amenities fees and, as far as I know, are not public roads. We already know that “outsiders” frequent our pools without being checked; And we all remember our fiasco with the Stonecrest gate. So why do we pay all this extra cost to live in The Villages???
Never pass up a chance to make a buck.

[gwenhwalker@yahoo.com]

City stickers 🤪

[joelfmi]

Quest, like fish, begin to smell on the third day.

[golfing eagles]

I agree. as the area that surrounds TV grows, there's going to be more outsiders and yes, there is no control over things like the paths, the pools, etc. but what's the solution? How does one control access when County roads run all through TV? it's not feasible.

Well, lets take the squares and MMPs off the table---neither "the developer" nor the merchants have any reason to reduce foot traffic there.

The answer to the amenities would require more expense and inconvenience ----a monitor at all pools full time, a monitor at the outdoor rec center areas and ambassadors on all courses until dark, checking IDs and with the authority to kick people out.

[golfing eagles]

City stickers 🤪

Quest, like fish, begin to smell on the third day.

Do either of these posts mean anything?????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Clark124]

Street legal carts aren't legal on the MMP's.

I don't recall seeing that in the various brochures/TV links online, so do you have a source you could show us? Thanks.
Who will enforce this

[graciegirl]

The Daily Sun is NOT "inviting" people from the "outside" to use the cart paths.

They took money for an ad from someone who was trying to make their place more attractive to buyers. It's called exaggeration and a sales pitch.

Think about it before you get your knickers in a twist.

Ain't no place better than this place and you all know it . AND we really do not need anyone else's golf carts. We have PLENTY of our own and we so enjoy them.

Period and AMEN.

[Linnberg]

Well actually the squares are open to the public.

As far as the using the golf cart paths there are two issues. They are for residents only and the ad says you need a street legal cart to get here. Street legal carts aren't legal on the MMP's.

Wrong! Street legal golf carts are allowed on all multimodal paths. But should go under 20 mph.

[Bill14564]

Well, lets take the squares and MMPs off the table---neither "the developer" nor the merchants have any reason to reduce foot traffic there.

The answer to the amenities would require more expense and inconvenience ----a monitor at all pools full time, a monitor at the outdoor rec center areas and ambassadors on all courses until dark, checking IDs and with the authority to kick people out.

I like the monitoring idea and I would even sign up for that job but it wouldn't come without a cost. About 100 pools? At 11 hours/day and $10/hour that comes to something like $4M/year just to have someone sit at the pools. Then toss in a bit more for the golf courses and outdoor recreation facilities and a little more for coordinating 250 or so people each day to cover the shifts.

I can already hear the complaining when someone gets turned away because they forgot their card or is told their 27 year old child or grandchild cannot join them at the neighborhood pool.

It can be done and the benefits may outweigh the costs but as you mention, there would be costs and inconveniences.

[phousel]

Good information!!!
So in layman's terms, LSV's among other things are vehicles "capable" of speeds of excess of 20mph.

Florida Statute's and Villages rules are very clear: The multi-modal paths are for use by NON-AUTOMOTIVE traffic such as bicycles, golf carts, pedestrians, and skaters.

In the context of MMP's a LSV is the same as a smart car....capable of over 20mph. Therefore, A LSV CANNOT use the MMP even if it stays below the 20mph threshold, because it is "capable" of speeds in excess of that. :coolsmiley:
If you read the "share thr road" memo from 2010 (if I remember correctly); it states that "street legal" golf carts are still designated as golf carts.
Thus use of the MMPs is allowed.
Please confirm my understabding.
.

[richs631]

I’m still trying to figure out why a poster was complaining about trash in the trash can

[golfing eagles]

I like the monitoring idea and I would even sign up for that job but it wouldn't come without a cost. About 100 pools? At 11 hours/day and $10/hour that comes to something like $4M/year just to have someone sit at the pools. Then toss in a bit more for the golf courses and outdoor recreation facilities and a little more for coordinating 250 or so people each day to cover the shifts.

I can already hear the complaining when someone gets turned away because they forgot their card or is told their 27 year old child or grandchild cannot join them at the neighborhood pool.

It can be done and the benefits may outweigh the costs but there would be costs.

Good analysis.

The pool cost would be less, since we already pay people to check IDs at the pools, but I don't know how many there are. The ambassador cost would be minimal---just need an extra 0-2 hours of coverage depending on the time of year.

I am also concerned about a post from a few weeks ago by someone who (supposedly) was looking at Stonecrest and was told by the realtor that he could get forged Villages IDs and gate passes if he bought there. The solution to this is also expensive----either issue new IDs every year, or get new IDS that have a chip instead of the barcode.

Is it worth it???? No way to know unless we know the magnitude of the problem. And therein lies the Catch-22: You have to institute the systems to catch them to know if there are enough of them to warrant instituting a system to catch them:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Bay Kid]

I’m still trying to figure out why a poster was complaining about trash in the trash can

Dog poop???

[MandoMan]

Since all of our roads, except those in the villa areas, are public roads I would expect it to be "legal" to drive a Street Legal cart anywhere in The Villages (including the town squares). But like a number of people have pointed out, that should not apply to the MMP's and tunnels. As far as I know, since the Street Legal cart has a Florida license plate for use on 35 mph streets, they should NOT be driving on the MMP paths ever, even if driven by a Villager. So I don't know how you could keep the their carts off our streets and out of our town squares. Remember, they can drive their car or motorcycle anywhere in The Villages and a Street Legal cart fits that criteria too.

Street legal carts are allowed on the Multi-Modal Paths. Of course they are! But they still are expected to follow the speed limit.

[Bill14564]

If you read the "share thr road" memo from 2010 (if I remember correctly); it states that "street legal" golf carts are still designated as golf carts.
Thus use of the MMPs is allowed.
Please confirm my understabding.
.

The text in posts #49 (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/1991043-post49.html) and #68 (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/1991111-post68.html) seem to support your understanding.

[mikeritz53]

On the cover page of today’s issue of The Daily Sun’s “Sound Clips”, there is an ad for Densan Park in Oxford. The ad states “Use a street legal golf cart to be in The Villages Community tunnels in a half a mile”. Our golf cart paths and tunnels were constructed and are maintained using our amenities fees and, as far as I know, are not public roads. We already know that “outsiders” frequent our pools without being checked; And we all remember our fiasco with the Stonecrest gate. So why do we pay all this extra cost to live in The Villages???

Question??? If they are Street Legal why would they want to drive on the Paths at 19.6 MPH ( I know carts go faster than that, but rarely over 25 MPH) instead of going 35 on the Street????

[Aces4]

Good analysis.

The pool cost would be less, since we already pay people to check IDs at the pools, but I don't know how many there are. The ambassador cost would be minimal---just need an extra 0-2 hours of coverage depending on the time of year.

I am also concerned about a post from a few weeks ago by someone who (supposedly) was looking at Stonecrest and was told by the realtor that he could get forged Villages IDs and gate passes if he bought there. The solution to this is also expensive----either issue new IDs every year, or get new IDS that have a chip instead of the barcode.

Is it worth it???? No way to know unless we know the magnitude of the problem. And therein lies the Catch-22: You have to institute the systems to catch them to know if there are enough of them to warrant instituting a system to catch them:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:


The answer may lie in golf carts requiring ID’s and hefty fines if caught... say $500. or $1,000. Signage stating private property and fine amount if caught without Village ownership, ignorance of the law is no excuse. If they’re too cheap to live the The Villages to pay the assessments and insurance for those paths, they surely won’t want the fine.

[golfing eagles]

Question??? If they are Street Legal why would they want to drive on the Paths at 19.6 MPH ( I know carts go faster than that, but rarely over 25 MPH) instead of going 35 on the Street????

First of all, they can't go 35 on the street, they are limited to 25mph. But point taken, once you have one, you're probably better off going 25 and avoiding all the gate crossings, assuming you want to be out there with vehicles 10x as heavy going 35+. So the bigger question is why would anyone want a "street legal" cart in the first place? (Unless they are using speed to compensate for deficiencies "elsewhere":1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:)

[golfing eagles]

The answer may lie in golf carts requiring ID’s and hefty fines if caught... say $500. or $1,000. Signage stating private property and fine amount if caught without Village ownership, ignorance of the law is no excuse. If they’re too cheap to live the The Villages to pay the assessments and insurance for those paths, they surely won’t want the fine.

Interesting. But a sign stating "private property" is hardly "the law", nor do I think The Villages governance has the authority to "impose a fine"---it would be a civil matter and TV would have to sue the offender for trespassing and call law enforcement for the criminal side of the trespass. (If I remember correctly from a law class 40 years ago, trespassing is a tort---covered by both civil and criminal penalties). Then there is the problem of catching them.

[Bilyclub]

Forging the current ID's would be useless if the checkers use the handheld scanners all the time to weed out the interlopers. Unless the forger is using somebody's legit information with the outsider's pic.





Good analysis.

The pool cost would be less, since we already pay people to check IDs at the pools, but I don't know how many there are. The ambassador cost would be minimal---just need an extra 0-2 hours of coverage depending on the time of year.

I am also concerned about a post from a few weeks ago by someone who (supposedly) was looking at Stonecrest and was told by the realtor that he could get forged Villages IDs and gate passes if he bought there. The solution to this is also expensive----either issue new IDs every year, or get new IDS that have a chip instead of the barcode.

Is it worth it???? No way to know unless we know the magnitude of the problem. And therein lies the Catch-22: You have to institute the systems to catch them to know if there are enough of them to warrant instituting a system to catch them:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Aces4]

Interesting. But a sign stating "private property" is hardly "the law", nor do I think The Villages governance has the authority to "impose a fine"---it would be a civil matter and TV would have to sue the offender for trespassing and call law enforcement for the criminal side of the trespass. (If I remember correctly from a law class 40 years ago, trespassing is a tort---covered by both civil and criminal penalties). Then there is the problem of catching them.

I should have been more specific, our local government would need to pass the law and I see no problem with that at this point. Catching could be enhanced with cameras and if the cart IDs are readily visible, reporting would be simplified. No ID, no pass to ride mmps.

Catching them wouldn’t be that difficult if they’re in a golf cart and when the word gets around after a few are caught and fined, the interlopers drop exponentially.

[Indydealmaker]

I just read it. It's not "the media", it's in the content of the ad. This "Densan Park" ad is telling people that if they live there, they can use a street legal golf cart to get into The Villages. I'm surprised the Daily Sun allowed this to be distributed with the paper. Legal action to follow????

Multimodals are public access areas.

[golfing eagles]

Multimodals are public access areas.

Question: Have you read any of the dozen+ posts that address that issue???

[DaleDivine]

Rules of the road (https://www.districtgov.org/PdfView/PdfView.aspx?path=%27/PdfUpload/Golf%20Car%20Rules%20of%20the%20Road.pdf%27&ql=standard)

Golf Cart Requirements | The Villages Florida (https://thevillagesflorida.com/golf-cart-requirements/)

And

Multi-Modal Path Information and Safety (https://www.districtgov.org/community/MultiModal.aspx)

I couldn't read in these rules where a street legal cart is not allowed on MMPs.
I have a friend with a street legal cart and he drives his on MMPs.
How would they get from say, Morse to Buena Vista along 466A?
Orrrr, down to the Fenney area?
:bigbow::ohdear:

[Ken D.]

Good information!!!
So in layman's terms, LSV's among other things are vehicles "capable" of speeds of excess of 20mph.

Florida Statute's and Villages rules are very clear: The multi-modal paths are for use by NON-AUTOMOTIVE traffic such as bicycles, golf carts, pedestrians, and skaters.

In the context of MMP's a LSV is the same as a smart car....capable of over 20mph. Therefore, A LSV CANNOT use the MMP even if it stays below the 20mph threshold, because it is "capable" of speeds in excess of that. :coolsmiley:
I doubt anyone would enforce the rules if a LSV was driving on a MMP. Many are owned by Villagers, but most use the roads because it allows quicker travel.

[kendi]

Street legal carts aren't legal on the MMP's.

I don't recall seeing that in the various brochures/TV links online, so do you have a source you could show us? Thanks.

Do you remember the source of every price of information you’ve read? Of course not, no one does. I’m sure your capable of looking it up yourself. You wanna know don’t try to pawn the work off onto someone else.

[golfing eagles]

I couldn't read in these rules where a street legal cart is not allowed on MMPs.
I have a friend with a street legal cart and he drives his on MMPs.
How would they get from say, Morse to Buena Vista along 466A?
Orrrr, down to the Fenney area?
:bigbow::ohdear:

As far as I know, street legal carts are allowed on the MMPs---street legal owned by a Villages resident. The debate is whether or not the MMPs are "private" property, and therefore can be restricted to use by Villagers only or are they "public" and open to non-residents as well. From this thread, there seems to be differing opinion without a clear answer. But I would suggest that the Stonecrest wall (while it lasted) and the exclusion of Trailwinds are evidence that these MMPs are indeed private

[DAVES]

On the cover page of today’s issue of The Daily Sun’s “Sound Clips”, there is an ad for Densan Park in Oxford. The ad states “Use a street legal golf cart to be in The Villages Community tunnels in a half a mile”. Our golf cart paths and tunnels were constructed and are maintained using our amenities fees and, as far as I know, are not public roads. We already know that “outsiders” frequent our pools without being checked; And we all remember our fiasco with the Stonecrest gate. So why do we pay all this extra cost to live in The Villages???

I read through some of the posts.

Reality check-right, wrong are not the same a legal.

While as a kid my parents tried to teach me to share my toys. Reality, I quickly discovered and it continues to be reinforced. When you allow others to use your toys they do not return them as they were.

There are solutions none without costs. A true gated community is one solution.
Do we want that?

[Bilyclub]

Multimodals are public access areas.

Not if they are maintained by our yearly maintenance assessments. Or do you have information otherwise?

[Spalumbos62]

So, on the theme of posting without reading the thread, I have above my original post and three that followed within about a dozen posts. Maybe I'll make it 5 by repeating the squares are open to the public.


I'll do it...the Squares are open to the public...lol

[DAVES]

I doubt anyone would enforce the rules if a LSV was driving on a MMP. Many are owned by Villagers, but most use the roads because it allows quicker travel.

My view about most things. We all tend to think they should not allow that. We all think what we do is OK. Few think- do we want tight enforcement of rules. Do we want random stops? Say testing your golf cart to see if it will only do the 20mph legal speed unless you have plates, insurance etc. If, anyone cares, ours is set for the legal 20 mph. However,
how many of us come to a complete stop at stop signs. Would I support full enforcement of that? Of course not that would effect me.

[golfing eagles]

I read through some of the posts.

Reality check-right, wrong are not the same a legal.

While as a kid my parents tried to teach me to share my toys. Reality, I quickly discovered and it continues to be reinforced. When you allow others to use your toys they do not return them as they were.

There are solutions none without costs. A true gated community is one solution.
Do we want that?

I think a truly gated community would be both difficult to pull off and expensive---the first of many problems would be "buying" the roads from 3 different counties to make them private

[golfing eagles]

I'll do it...the Squares are open to the public...lol

Thank you---its been a page or two since that was last mentioned:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Topspinmo]

Well, lets take the squares and MMPs off the table---neither "the developer" nor the merchants have any reason to reduce foot traffic there.

The answer to the amenities would require more expense and inconvenience ----a monitor at all pools full time, a monitor at the outdoor rec center areas and ambassadors on all courses until dark, checking IDs and with the authority to kick people out.

The rec center’s are staffed to check ID’s. at some locations they aren’t doing their job with enthusiasm.

[Topspinmo]

Walking on the power corridor trail in Briar Meadow.
Frequently there are street legal carts, registered Atomic vehicles, scooters using the trail as a short cut.
So much for following the rules.


And there no reason they can’t. Only licensed motorcycles are not allowed.

[Footer]

There have been numerous threads over the years discussing the pros and cons of Villagers having a street legal golf cart. The main con of course is the high cost of insurance. Can't remember anyone commenting that you can no longer drive your street legal golf cart on the multimodal paths or golf courses. That would be a bigger con than the high insurance cost.

Your golf cart is still a golf cart, even if it has been converted to street legal.

Personally, I would rather have outsiders drive a golf cart to the squares instead of their car, which takes up 2 to 4 golf cart parking spaces.

[Topspinmo]

FL Statute 320.01(41)
LSVs may be operated only on streets where the posted speed limit is 35 MPH or less and must be equipped with the following safety equipment:
Controlling word is "Streets".

Multi Modal Paths (MMP's) are NOT streets...they are paths Non automotive vehicles like golf carts can operate on MMP's. LSV can't.

Burn the villages over ruled that. Being MMP path owned by districts and considered private property.

[shut the front door]

And your basis for that statement is........????

If you live in TV, then I can get to your property in a golf cart----does that mean I can drive around your house on your lawn? The question at hand is whether or not the MPPs are property that is restricted (legally) to use by Village residents only. I don't know. I very much doubt you know either The rest of that post is just blither-blather.

It's hard to take any post seriously in which the author gives themselves a "BOOM!"
Not just 1, but 2?

[Bill14564]

My view about most things. We all tend to think they should not allow that. We all think what we do is OK. Few think- do we want tight enforcement of rules. Do we want random stops? Say testing your golf cart to see if it will only do the 20mph legal speed unless you have plates, insurance etc. If, anyone cares, ours is set for the legal 20 mph. However,
how many of us come to a complete stop at stop signs. Would I support full enforcement of that? Of course not that would effect me.

Good thoughts.

Would the test for 20mph capability be on an uphill surface, flat, or downhill slope and if sloped, then how steep? My cart will exceed 20mph if dropped from an airplane and it may also exceed that speed down a hill of sufficient slope and length.

How long is a "complete stop?" One half second, an entire second, "one-thousand-one," three seconds? Blowing through a sign at 5mph is clearly not stopped but how long do I need do pause to check the "completely stop" box?

Before we demand enforcement we should clearly understand what will be enforced and think about the unintended consequences.

[Topspinmo]

According to my understanding a street legal cart can’t drive on a 45mph road but can cross it so from Densan Park they can get to all three town squares without going through a tunnel

Can cross at regulated stop light streets. No stop light no crossing. Last time at was up 101 pass villages not regulated stop lights.

[DonH57]

So what would be the purpose of spending money to make your golf cart street legal and driving it on the cart paths. Not very sensible unless you have money to waste.

[Bill14564]

Can cross at regulated stop light streets. No stop light no crossing. Last time at was up 101 pass villages not regulated stop lights.

Not sure where you found that.


316.2122 Operation of a low-speed vehicle or mini truck on certain roadways.—The operation of a low-speed vehicle as defined in s. 320.01 or a mini truck as defined in s. 320.01 on any road is authorized with the following restrictions:
(1) A low-speed vehicle or mini truck may be operated only on streets where the posted speed limit is 35 miles per hour or less. This does not prohibit a low-speed vehicle or mini truck from crossing a road or street at an intersection where the road or street has a posted speed limit of more than 35 miles per hour.

[drcar]

I just went to their website. Haha!! Under shopping they show a pictures of Sumter Square....with golf carts. Somebody should tell The Villages management. If you can use the important amenities like the squares what is the point of living in TV? That's what I'm going to tell the agent who is looking for a home for me right now.

Sorry the squares are open to the public, the roads are owned and maintained by the county.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The flip side to that would be central park in NYC, Paid for by New Yorkers but open to all. Or most parks in any other city.

But you can't drive your car onto the pedestrian path through the park. Just like you can't drive a vehicle that has to be registered and plated with the DMV on a multi-modal path.

You CAN drive it on roads that have golf-cart lanes. But a golf-cart lane on a public road is NOT a multi-modal path. Street-legal golf carts are not permitted on multi-modal paths. Golf cart tunnels are parts of the multi-modal path network and are NOT golf cart lanes on public roads.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I couldn't read in these rules where a street legal cart is not allowed on MMPs.
I have a friend with a street legal cart and he drives his on MMPs.
How would they get from say, Morse to Buena Vista along 466A?
Orrrr, down to the Fenney area?
:bigbow::ohdear:

They wouldn't. It's one of the downsides to owning a street-legal golf cart. Once it's registered and plated, it's no longer legally a golf cart. It changes its designation to a LSV (low-speed vehicle). LSVs are not permitted on multi-modal paths.

[golfing eagles]

But you can't drive your car onto the pedestrian path through the park. Just like you can't drive a vehicle that has to be registered and plated with the DMV on a multi-modal path.

You CAN drive it on roads that have golf-cart lanes. But a golf-cart lane on a public road is NOT a multi-modal path. Street-legal golf carts are not permitted on multi-modal paths. Golf cart tunnels are parts of the multi-modal path network and are NOT golf cart lanes on public roads.

I have to challenge that, do you have a source???

As a counter, I'll offer this: Someone with a street legal cart has a tee time at Evans Prairie, he drives on BV to the circle and enters the parking lot, buys his green fee and has to go to #1 of either Osprey or Killdeer. Just how would he get there if not on the MMP??????

[Bill14564]

But you can't drive your car onto the pedestrian path through the park. Just like you can't drive a vehicle that has to be registered and plated with the DMV on a multi-modal path.

You CAN drive it on roads that have golf-cart lanes. But a golf-cart lane on a public road is NOT a multi-modal path. Street-legal golf carts are not permitted on multi-modal paths. Golf cart tunnels are parts of the multi-modal path network and are NOT golf cart lanes on public roads.

They wouldn't. It's one of the downsides to owning a street-legal golf cart. Once it's registered and plated, it's no longer legally a golf cart. It changes its designation to a LSV (low-speed vehicle). LSVs are not permitted on multi-modal paths.

Posts #49 and #68 seem to have official guidance that says otherwise.

The assertion that LSVs are not legally permitted on the MMPs has been made several times without any sources to back that up. Do you have a link to an official source that backs up that assertion?

[twoplanekid]

And there no reason they can’t. Only licensed motorcycles are not allowed.

from the District website

"If it were not for the lack of enforcement powers vested within the districts, as discussed below,the districts, as owner of the paths and in order to maintain the same, could adopt reasonable rules regarding what types of transportation methods can use the paths so long as the paths continued to provide non-automotive, non-vehicular ways for bicycle, pedestrian, skater and golfcart use. Hence, the districts could adopt a rule prohibiting certain types of conveyances (i.e. motorcycles) except those types required to be al\owed per the development orders if there was a means to enforce said rule. However, as discussed below, due to the districts' current lack of
enforcement power such a rule would have no real value.

PDF Viewer (https://www.districtgov.org/PdfView/PdfView.aspx?path=%27%2fPdfUpload%2fMulti-Modal+Memo+-+Valerie+Fuchs.pdf%27&ql=standard)

[ffresh]

So what would be the purpose of spending money to make your golf cart street legal and driving it on the cart paths. Not very sensible unless you have money to waste.

Consider the following case:
Husband = avid golfer and loves playing courses both north and south five days per week; perfect solution - LSV / street legal cart (doesn't have turf tires but remains on golf course paths)

Wife = not a golfer and thinks husband is nuts for scooting around in LSV on streets occupied by cars but enjoys using the LSV for shopping and does so via MMPs :coolsmiley:

[wjones53]

Well actually the squares are open to the public.

As far as the using the golf cart paths there are two issues. They are for residents only and the ad says you need a street legal cart to get here. Street legal carts aren't legal on the MMP's.

We had a street legal cart for the first 5 years that we lived in The Villages and used it on the MMP all the time. The only time we used it as street legal was in the roundabout going from Canal into Sumter. Needless to say, we converted to non street legal when the law changed and saved money on our insurance.

[Spalumbos62]

Well, lets take the squares and MMPs off the table---neither "the developer" nor the merchants have any reason to reduce foot traffic there.

The answer to the amenities would require more expense and inconvenience ----a monitor at all pools full time, a monitor at the outdoor rec center areas and ambassadors on all courses until dark, checking IDs and with the authority to kick people out.


I dont mind the idea of monitors at these various locations.

[HORNET]

It all boils down to that some people are just to cheap to buy in The Villages. Harbor Hills sales brochure says that there is free entertainment in all three Village squares and Stonecrest residents can get magnet gate passes from their sales agents.

[Spalumbos62]

Not if they are maintained by our yearly maintenance assessments. Or do you have information otherwise?


I agree, but one would think we are already paying for that in our fees. Do you think of the villages as a gated community, hell yeah, most people do...in fact soo many think of it as such that I believe they benefit in their advertising from that....non truth. Js

[rogerk]

Rules of the road (https://www.districtgov.org/PdfView/PdfView.aspx?path=%27/PdfUpload/Golf%20Car%20Rules%20of%20the%20Road.pdf%27&ql=standard)

Golf Cart Requirements | The Villages Florida (https://thevillagesflorida.com/golf-cart-requirements/)

And

Multi-Modal Path Information and Safety (https://www.districtgov.org/community/MultiModal.aspx)

Villages GPS is a private business not affiliated with the Villages nor with the District Government! Therefore, it does not necessarily reflect official Govt/Villages policy or rules!

[Spalumbos62]

Thank you---its been a page or two since that was last mentioned:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:


Hey...you get what you get, when you get it.....I have other things going on in my day...ya know...golf, pickleball, cards....I'm retired.lol

Ps...by the time the monitor proof reads my post, I'm at the end. Lol, lol

[dougawhite]

In the context of MMP's a LSV is the same as a smart car....capable of over 20mph. Therefore, A LSV CANNOT use the MMP even if it stays below the 20mph threshold, because it is "capable" of speeds in excess of that.

Nowhere in those referenced documents does it state that street-legal carts are not allowed on MMPs. Wheteher or not they are legally capable of exceeding 20mph is irrelevant to their status as being allowed on the MMPs.

[Crazyladycruz]

But “The Media” is owned by The Villages!

[Bilyclub]

I agree, but one would think we are already paying for that in our fees. Do you think of the villages as a gated community, hell yeah, most people do...in fact soo many think of it as such that I believe they benefit in their advertising from that....non truth. Js

Never thought of TV as gated, but think it is more secure due to the gates and the cameras capturing every license plate that enters.

[golfnut]

Low Speed and All-Terrain Vehicles - Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles (https://www.flhsmv.gov/safety-center/consumer-education/low-speed-vehicles/)

Anything else I need to look up for you guys? :1rotfl:

I don't see where it says street legal carts are not allowed on the MMP

[Just jimmy]

Years ago I asked about ownership of the mmps here's the email.

During one of the previous dust ups I asked about MMP ownership. I emailed Ms Tutt and this is what I got.

Harry Gilbert
Dec 14, 2013, 9:08 AM
to janet.tutt

Ms Tutt,

I’ve been following the recent dust up on TOTV concerning the use of the Multi Model paths there. With the amount of opinions expressed that the paths were bought and now maintained through the use of amenity fees and the fact that the road system is County owned and maintained has garnered my curiosity. Here in NJ and from what I can find about most states, these types of trails are a gov’t function and not a homeowner owned property. So instead of trying to decide which of the opinions have merit I’ll come right out and ask. Are these paths privately owned and maintained by The Villages VCDD or are they part of the County transportation system?

Thank you for your time


Tutt, Janet <Janet.Tutt@districtgov.org>
Dec 15, 2013, 8:53 PM
to me

Good Evening,

The paths ARE owned by the Community Development Districts (which are government entities). They are maintained through the assessments (taxes) each of the Districts levy on residents annually. The “on road” paths are the responsibility of the government entity that owns the road.

Hopefully this helps.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Have a great week and happy holidays!

Janet



So Amenity fees are NOT used for the paths.
They are Gov't owned except for the new areas not yet turned over to a district

That would seem to make them public property and open to all.

It says they are private. Read it again

[Harry Gilbert]

It says they are private. Read it again

Where does it say that?

[twoplanekid]

Where does it say that?

Please read what I quoted from the district website in my post # 136

"If it were not for the lack of enforcement powers vested within the districts, as discussed below, the districts, as owner of the paths and in order to maintain the same, could adopt reasonable rules...."

The District can make rules but then can't enforce them on the paths. So, such a rule would have no real value.

[Escape Artist]

So, on the theme of posting without reading the thread, I have above my original post and three that followed within about a dozen posts. Maybe I'll make it 5 by repeating the squares are open to the public.

Yeah, but you keep repeating it like it's a good thing. :ohdear:

[jmaccallum]

Rules of the road (https://www.districtgov.org/PdfView/PdfView.aspx?path=%27/PdfUpload/Golf%20Car%20Rules%20of%20the%20Road.pdf%27&ql=standard)

Golf Cart Requirements | The Villages Florida (https://thevillagesflorida.com/golf-cart-requirements/)

And

Multi-Modal Path Information and Safety (https://www.districtgov.org/community/MultiModal.aspx)


None of the links you have in your message support your claim. In fact, if you click on the link you placed in your message on MMP Information and Safety, and then click on the link Share the Path, you’ll see a memorandum from District Counsel that says basically that the question has not been addressed in any definitions, regulations or law. So, without a definition, regulation or law saying no, the answer is yes.

Anyway, as is the usual on TOTV, I think y’all are blowing this whole thing out of proportion. I’m sure there are those that don’t live in the Villages that sneak in with their golf cart and ride around on our MMP’s (ba stards!), but I’m sure they are few. Anyway, try to identify them. I’m sure they’re in very noticeable carts - you know - like Club Cars or Yamaha’s! :1rotfl: And as far as the LSU people rethinking coming here, that’s ok, we don’t need anymore LSU fans anyway :ho: (ooh, I’m probably gonna take a hit :boxing2: on that one! Lol!)

[Aces4]

None of the links you have in your message support your claim. In fact, if you click on the link you placed in your message on MMP Information and Safety, and then click on the link Share the Path, you’ll see a memorandum from District Counsel that says basically that the question has not been addressed in any definitions, regulations or law. So, without a definition, regulation or law saying no, the answer is yes.

Anyway, as is the usual on TOTV, I think y’all are blowing this whole thing out of proportion. I’m sure there are those that don’t live in the Villages that sneak in with their golf cart and ride around on our MMP’s (ba stards!), but I’m sure they are few. Anyway, try to identify them. I’m sure they’re in very noticeable carts - you know - like Club Cars or Yamaha’s! :1rotfl: And as far as the LSU people rethinking coming here, that’s ok, we don’t need anymore LSU fans anyway :ho: (ooh, I’m probably gonna take a hit :boxing2: on that one! Lol!)


You’re so right. Get the word out to everyone, the paths in The Villages are wide open for everyone to enjoy and many of the amenities because many aren’t being checked. I’ll try to spread the word not to buy in, since much can be enjoyed without paying a nickel in fees.

It’s your rats nest, enjoy!

[DAVES]

I just went to their website. Haha!! Under shopping they show a pictures of Sumter Square....with golf carts. Somebody should tell The Villages management. If you can use the important amenities like the squares what is the point of living in TV? That's what I'm going to tell the agent who is looking for a home for me right now.

If, I post what I want to say, it will surely be removed. People often state they will not but then do anyway. I am truly strange. Before I speak I think before speaking. I weigh the pluses and the minuses. If, it is that important to you. Fair would be to call the agent and tell them you are no longer interested and why. To stop looking for you.

Nothing is perfect or ever will be. I truly hope you will be happy elsewhere.

[BlueHeronFan]

Here is the quiet little secret. The Villages Golf Carts rent Golf Carts. A friend of my wife told her that her family does this all the time.

[Aces4]

Here is the quiet little secret. The Villages Golf Carts rent Golf Carts. A friend of my wife told her that her family does this all the time.

See everyone, it’s not the seasonal residents clogging up your life, it’s the population outside the bubble catching their free ride.:gc:

[PugMom]

Works for me.

ikr? so simple it just might work :popcorn:

[DAVES]

You’re so right. Get the word out to everyone, the paths in The Villages are wide open for everyone to enjoy and many of the amenities because many aren’t being checked. I’ll try to spread the word not to buy in, since much can be enjoyed without paying a nickel in fees.

It’s your rats nest, enjoy!

Having a bad day? Try not to HATE so much. Hum we had one sitting in a golf cart with signs of HATE for months.

[Aces4]

Having a bad day? Try not to HATE so much. Hum we had one sitting in a golf cart with signs of HATE for months.

Uh, aren’t you the hater? You just walked Vermillion because he wasn’t thrilled with the The Villages lack of control in regards to the paths. You told him to let his realtor go and good luck somewhere else.

Everyone doesn’t need to be in lock step with your opinions and then labeled a hater.:ohdear:

[DaleDivine]

Who owns this “Densan park”? News papers sells adds, I doubt the newspaper’s are respond for content of the adds.

Densan Park has several ads in TOTV as well.
:popcorn::popcorn:

[DaleDivine]

Actually the developer was not aware of the ad by Denison Park....THEY ARE NOW!!!
So....Densan Park. There is one road from Densan Park to the entrances of The Villages....the two lane CR101. The speed limit is 35 so an LSV technically can drive on it....But I'm sure that not a pleasant ride. Most cars are going close to 50. Trust me... no ride on a public street is fun on a golf cart. So what do they do???? jump off on a MMP as quick as they can and take that to the square. Problem is that is the part is against the law, and Densan insinuating thru ads MMP's as a possibility I'm thinking will be dealt with pretty quick. The Developer has enough clout....raise the speed limit on CR101 to 40mph and problem solved....:boom:

Agree, simple solution raise the speed limit to 40 MPH on CR101 and LSV carts are not allowed on it.
:welcome::bigbow:

[TheTourVan]

There is some irony in a number of people angry about people using their stuff for free are then also saying bring everybody to this wonderful country and open it all. There is literally no difference, just scale.

[golfing eagles]

There is some irony in a number of people angry about people using their stuff for free are then also saying bring everybody to this wonderful country and open it all. There is literally no difference, just scale.

I have my doubts that they are the same people

[LateBoomer]

twice now I've seen something that looks like a red Smart Car on the golf cart paths. that can't be allowed...?

[LateBoomer]

There is some irony in a number of people angry about people using their stuff for free are then also saying bring everybody to this wonderful country and open it all. There is literally no difference, just scale.

well as you know there is an astonishing amount of "for thee, but not for me" on one side of the spectrum

[Bilyclub]

Here is the quiet little secret. The Villages Golf Carts rent Golf Carts. A friend of my wife told her that her family does this all the time.

Here's what's not a secret. The Villages Golf Cars has very few golf carts to rent due to various issues that have been posted on TOTV. What ones they do have are reserved months in advance.

[ChicagoNative]

twice now I've seen something that looks like a red Smart Car on the golf cart paths. that can't be allowed...?

That could’ve been me. We have an Atomic 4 seater that at first glance does look like a Smart Car. I’ve gotten plenty of looks from others on the path, but so far no one has yelled or given any obscene gestures. My neighbor with a similar blue Atomic has experienced more of the unfriendly side of the friendliest hometown when he’s been out. I’ve started to see more Atomics on the paths, and we do stand out from the 99% that are Yamahas or Clubs. We’re not illegal, we’re just new and different.

Also, after another nasty letter in the paper about “outsiders” using the paths, a neighbor called a Villages district office and spoke to someone named Jennifer Farlow. Ms. Farlow stated that all the paths, including the MMP are public. It seems to me that the Villages gets what the Villages wants. If they wanted to stop”outsiders”, I believe they could, but I just don’t think this is a fight they want to take on, especially since people using the paths are spending money in Villages establishments. It’s also interesting to see this subject has been occasionally faring up since at least 2010, and will likely continue to do so. :)

[JoMar]

That could’ve been me. We have an Atomic 4 seater that at first glance does look like a Smart Car. I’ve gotten plenty of looks from others on the path, but so far no one has yelled or given any obscene gestures. My neighbor with a similar blue Atomic has experienced more of the unfriendly side of the friendliest hometown when he’s been out. I’ve started to see more Atomics on the paths, and we do stand out from the 99% that are Yamahas or Clubs. We’re not illegal, we’re just new and different.

Also, after another nasty letter in the paper about “outsiders” using the paths, a neighbor called a Villages district office and spoke to someone named Jennifer Farlow. Ms. Farlow stated that all the paths, including the MMP are public. It seems to me that the Villages gets what the Villages wants. If they wanted to stop”outsiders”, I believe they could, but I just don’t think this is a fight they want to take on, especially since people using the paths are spending money in Villages establishments. It’s also interesting to see this subject has been occasionally faring up since at least 2010, and will likely continue to do so. :)

And I suspect, in the 80,000+ carts here, outsiders are a very small group. I also think it's a VCDD issue since they are responsible for the MMP and not the Developer or District. Not even sure how you would enforce since the County owns the roads and access.

[Number 10 GI]

I seriously there are very many non-villagers who are going to buy a golf cart just to drive on our MMPs.

[Dana1963]

On the cover page of today’s issue of The Daily Sun’s “Sound Clips”, there is an ad for Densan Park in Oxford. The ad states “Use a street legal golf cart to be in The Villages Community tunnels in a half a mile”. Our golf cart paths and tunnels were constructed and are maintained using our amenities fees and, as far as I know, are not public roads. We already know that “outsiders” frequent our pools without being checked; And we all remember our fiasco with the Stonecrest gate. So why do we pay all this extra cost to live in The Villages???
Wait till all the apartments that will be built then we’ll here some btching

[JoMar]

On the cover page of today’s issue of The Daily Sun’s “Sound Clips”, there is an ad for Densan Park in Oxford. The ad states “Use a street legal golf cart to be in The Villages Community tunnels in a half a mile”. Our golf cart paths and tunnels were constructed and are maintained using our amenities fees and, as far as I know, are not public roads. We already know that “outsiders” frequent our pools without being checked; And we all remember our fiasco with the Stonecrest gate. So why do we pay all this extra cost to live in The Villages???

What extra cost if that's a big thing for you then yeah, maybe there are other places that would match your sensibilities but why ask a question without a recommendation?

[asianthree]

Wait till all the apartments that will be built then we’ll here some btching

Apartments development may be scaling back. So non issue there

[Bilyclub]

Apartments development may be scaling back. So non issue there

There is no slowdown of apartments being built on the outside perimeter of TV.

[NavyNJ]

Rules of the road (https://www.districtgov.org/PdfView/PdfView.aspx?path=%27/PdfUpload/Golf%20Car%20Rules%20of%20the%20Road.pdf%27&ql=standard)

Golf Cart Requirements | The Villages Florida (https://thevillagesflorida.com/golf-cart-requirements/)

And

Multi-Modal Path Information and Safety (https://www.districtgov.org/community/MultiModal.aspx)

I found nothing related to LSV's being restricted from Multi-Modal Paths in any of those references.