Will Elon Musk finally be convicted of a lifetime of fraud?

[MorTech]

Wow...Elon Musk should just plead the 5th and stop incriminating himself.

MUSK ON TRIAL (SOLAR CITY BAILOUT) - 12711VCS Day One, Part One - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xPUytLhARk)

Watch TSLA.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I hope so, anyone who believes anything out of his mouth is an idiot, and he is a total narcissisic sociopath, with so much money that he can buy off, intimidate or bully plaintiff issues. . . .

Tesla car battery likely caused devastating East Bay house fire, investigators say - ABC7 San Francisco (https://abc7news.com/10957497/)

yesterday, tesla drove into a pile of kids on the sidewalk in the UK
never tesla's fault. . .

however, em has enough money to manipulate the stock through options by exploiting the market maker's delta hedging strategy, such that yesterday, $17M of Sept call options, 700 strike were bought, which is not mom and pop and not most hedge or mutual funds. . . preying on a gamma squeeze next week. . .

don't play the stock either way unless very sophisticated, I have lost over 20K shorting that POS stonk

[biker1]

Electrics actually have less fires per mile driven than gas cars but the fires, when they do occur, are more difficult to put out. GM has a recall on their Bolt electric.

The Tesla accidents that have occurred with Autopilot engaged have been due to the driver failing to pay attention. Autopilot requires that you keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention. It is not fully autonomous driving, it is not promoted as fully autonomous driving, and drivers must still be ready to take control of the car at any time. Accidents have occurred when drivers misused the system. That is not Tesla's fault.

I hope so, anyone who believes anything out of his mouth is an idiot, and he is a total narcissisic sociopath, with so much money that he can buy off, intimidate or bully plaintiff issues. . . .

Tesla car battery likely caused devastating East Bay house fire, investigators say - ABC7 San Francisco (https://abc7news.com/10957497/)

yesterday, tesla drove into a pile of kids on the sidewalk in the UK
never tesla's fault. . .

however, em has enough money to manipulate the stock through options by exploiting the market maker's delta hedging strategy, such that yesterday, $17M of Sept call options, 700 strike were bought, which is not mom and pop and not most hedge or mutual funds. . . preying on a gamma squeeze next week. . .

don't play the stock either way unless very sophisticated, I have lost over 20K shorting that POS stonk

[graciegirl]

I hope so, anyone who believes anything out of his mouth is an idiot, and he is a total narcissisic sociopath, with so much money that he can buy off, intimidate or bully plaintiff issues. . . .

Tesla car battery likely caused devastating East Bay house fire, investigators say - ABC7 San Francisco (https://abc7news.com/10957497/)

yesterday, tesla drove into a pile of kids on the sidewalk in the UK
never tesla's fault. . .

however, em has enough money to manipulate the stock through options by exploiting the market maker's delta hedging strategy, such that yesterday, $17M of Sept call options, 700 strike were bought, which is not mom and pop and not most hedge or mutual funds. . . preying on a gamma squeeze next week. . .

don't play the stock either way unless very sophisticated, I have lost over 20K shorting that POS stonk

He is very hard to like to be sure, but I have no problem he is wealthy. AND he is quite a bit out there...by his own admission he is autistic, but that is not a choice. I find him not at likeable...........but what are we to do with people who are born "different" and brilliant and odd. This really is a problem, because every last man jack of us has an odd bit or two.

[Two Bills]

I hope so, anyone who believes anything out of his mouth is an idiot, and he is a total narcissisic sociopath, with so much money that he can buy off, intimidate or bully plaintiff issues. . . .

Tesla car battery likely caused devastating East Bay house fire, investigators say - ABC7 San Francisco (https://abc7news.com/10957497/)

yesterday, tesla drove into a pile of kids on the sidewalk in the UK
never tesla's fault. . .

however, em has enough money to manipulate the stock through options by exploiting the market maker's delta hedging strategy, such that yesterday, $17M of Sept call options, 700 strike were bought, which is not mom and pop and not most hedge or mutual funds. . . preying on a gamma squeeze next week. . .

don't play the stock either way unless very sophisticated, I have lost over 20K shorting that POS stonk

It's personal then?:icon_wink:

[dewilson58]

Not a fan.

But financially successful people rarely color within the lines.

[LateBoomer]

a lifetime of fraud?

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Looks like no one on here likes Musk or Tesla…. On real opinion here. Who can say that they have achieved more than him?

[dewilson58]

Looks like no one on here likes Musk or Tesla…. On real opinion here. Who can say that they have achieved more than him?

I can, but I assume your scale is only money. Sad.

[LateBoomer]

well I don't think he's a fraud. he seems more like a genius. John DeLorean was a fraud. let's keep this in perspective

[Chi-Town]

Maybe a Martian Court will find him guilty. ������

[CoachKandSportsguy]

well I don't think he's a fraud. he seems more like a genius. John DeLorean was a fraud. let's keep this in perspective

um, not into finance at all eh? not into historical fact checking as well, eh?

I have locations which I can pull sample after sample of his crap, and if you want to read the legal briefs after the currently in progress trial, you will see he is full of truth twisting lies. . .

but continue to believe, its your perogative

[Art cov]

With all the mess that’s going on, why concentrate on Elon People are frustrated about everything, let’s take a deep breath and be thankful, make a long list of all your thankful for.

[LateBoomer]

1. Present your evidence that he's lived a "lifetime of fraud" . I see Tesla cars everywhere now. Hardly seems like a fraud, the way the DeLorean was (go read the history - JDL raided the funds provided to him by investors and the British Govt and only managed to ship a fraction (less than 7,000) of the promised vehicles, which were replete with quality problems.)
2. If you don't like his products, don't by them

Pretty simple without resorting to insults isn't it?

[CoachKandSportsguy]

I hardly think I insulted you, but as far as fraud goes,

Promoting, selling and taking deposits for multiple years on products which don't exist, and haven't existed is fraud.

Booking warranty and repair expenses to good will is fraudulent accounting

Seeing cars is not the fraud, convincing NY to build him a factory which he never used is fraud.

etc. . .

[Woodbear]

Having lived in WNY I had a first hand look at true fraud from Governor Cuomo. He invested almost 1 billion dollars into the Solar City facility that is limping along. Panasonic has already separated themselves from this mess. COVID may have saved TESLA from paying millions in fines for not reaching hiring goals.

Cuomo's Buffalo Billion-tainted Tesla Solar City faces audit (https://nypost.com/2019/08/28/cuomos-buffalo-billion-tainted-tesla-solar-city-faces-audit/)

Panasonic set to end solar production in Buffalo (https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/sources-panasonic-expected-to-end-solar-production-at-buffalos-solar-city)

[LateBoomer]

I hardly think I insulted you, but as far as fraud goes,

Promoting, selling and taking deposits for multiple years on products which don't exist, and haven't existed is fraud.

Booking warranty and repair expenses to good will is fraudulent accounting

Seeing cars is not the fraud, convincing NY to build him a factory which he never used is fraud.

etc. . .

#1 I couldn't care less about NY. They stupid things routinely. it's why people are fleeing. i live in florida, so I couldn't care less.

#2 Again, I suggest you don't buy his products if you don't like him.

#3 untwist your panties. Life is short.

[Blackbird45]

Elon Musk might be the ultimate huckster, but he is trying to develop a product that is not on the road as yet and there are a lot of other big companies trying to hit the same target. There are going to be a lot of accidents before this comes fully to market. In the 19th century when the auto was at it's birth, flag men were required to walk in front of the cars for safety. Nothing comes easy.

[LateBoomer]

I don't see how the man is a fraud. I see Tesla cars everywhere and their ratings are top notch. Tesla has thrived but notice how you no longer see the Chevy Volt or the Nissan Leaf?

there's a reason. He created a seriously great car, by all accounts.

Driverless cars? I think this will be common not far into the future, but for now, it's a speculative and developing technology. I certainly am not the test pilot type

[Luggage]

John DeLorean had bad luck and someone was out to get him he was not a sfraud. Should read his story

[CaliforniaCat]

Elon Musk is a criminal. He’s polluting space with 47,000 pieces of future space junk that cannot be retrieved. He’s a space polluter and someone should stop him. Not to mention he manipulates the Crypto Currency market. The SEC should go after him for his comments and antics that affect Tesla stock. I don’t know why they let this maniac do whatever he wants.

[Luggage]

Over 1 million Nissan Leaf have been sold and they're coming out with a new model this year. The arriya. Hardly a bad car

[Luggage]

Elon Musk is the PT Barnum of the Auto industry and frankly he is giving me a lot of enjoyment watching him succeed over the last 10 years in virtually creating a new industry. There are now at least one dozen or more companies starting up electric cars and trucks. I really don't know whether they are truly better for the environment or not but definitely over the next 10 to 20 years at least half the car as sold or more will be Electric notwithstanding federal laws

[biker1]

No, its about half that amount - 500K in 10 years. About 1/3 have been in the US. The car was hampered by poor engineering in its early years - no battery thermal management system - which led to a poor reputation. The Tesla Model 3 outsold it by 6x in 2020.

Over 1 million Nissan Leaf have been sold and they're coming out with a new model this year. The arriya. Hardly a bad car

[CaliforniaCat]

I’m amazed people can’t see through this maniac, even worse think he’s a genius. Shaking my head…

[CaliforniaCat]

[/U][/I][/B]

It's personal then?:icon_wink:

Yes, to all of us, It’s very personal. He’s polluting space, amongst a litany of other offenses.

[CaliforniaCat]

I can, but I assume your scale is only money. Sad.

Agreed!

How about 47,000 satellites polluting space so he can get richer? Long after that maniac is dead, 47,000 pieces of space junk will still either be there, or falling to earth.

He’s a menace… with a lot of money. Shaking my head…

[CaliforniaCat]

Since President Trump is out of office, looks like the Democrats and Liberals have found another target. Hmmmm

I’m a former straight-party-ticket GOP, now Libertarian btw. It’s amazing how small minds always go political.

[CaliforniaCat]

You are not alone at in your outrage friend.

um, not into finance at all eh? not into historical fact checking as well, eh?

I have locations which I can pull sample after sample of his crap, and if you want to read the legal briefs after the currently in progress trial, you will see he is full of truth twisting lies. . .

but continue to believe, its your perogative

[LateBoomer]

Over 1 million Nissan Leaf have been sold and they're coming out with a new model this year. The arriya. Hardly a bad car

LOL. that's really funny. They only CUMULATIVELY sold 500,000 in their first 10 years as of last December. they sold 500,000 this year?? that's really really.

It's a cheap EV, I grant you, but they haven't sold that many and most have been sold in Canada. They have sold 170,000 CUMLATIVELY in the US in 11 years.

But that aside.

Didn't say it was a bad car, but honestly, how often do you see Teslas and how often do you see the Leaf?

I'd say for me it's like 100/1. Maybe more.

and the Leaf is older. and way cheaper. and they are lousy. it's why they cost so little on the used market.

They don't even make the Volt now. There's a reason.

Musk built a far superior mouse-trap

[CaliforniaCat]

Only when the topic is horrific polluters/market manipulators that go unchecked or worse have a cult like fan-dom.

[Blackbird45]

There are lots of people who want to attack Musk for one reason or another, but he has become who he is because people want what he is delivering. EVs like them or not will dominate the market sooner than you think and if not by him by someone else. Now you can say he is polluting space with Star-link and your probably right, but the people of the world want to connect everyone to the internet and just like the EVs, if he doesn't do it someone else will.

[jimkerr]

Musk is a genius. Losers love to hate people that are successful.

[jimh24444@gmail.com]

I find Musk one of the most forward thinking people in the world today. He sees things and gets them done unlike anyone in our current government.

[Nellmack]

Is Musk's delivery strange, YES, he has some form of Autism. I give him a pass. Is he the only genius behind what Tesla is producing, absolutely not. There are thousands of engineers and designers behind Tesla, Space X and his solar company but he appears to be the pitch man and pitch men stretch the truth to benefit their company. And he's one hell of a pitch man. I know because I've made a small fortune on Tesla's stock, thank you very much, Elon.

I've also owned a Tesla for 6 years, 8 months (126K miles). It's a great car and lightning fast. It's also quiet as a church mouse and gets the equivalent of over 100 miles to the gallon, it has one of the highest safety ratings AND I still have the original breaks. It's a superior car in every way but it generates a lot of hate. It's a little sad that Sooner or later global warming will force everyone to figure out that we don't need to burn fossil fuel to operate machinery (and by machinery I include cars & tucks). Solar & wind - easy peesy.

[LateBoomer]

John DeLorean had bad luck and someone was out to get him he was not a sfraud. Should read his story

I read it. He was a fraud. Lined his pockets while only ever producing 7000 cars

[ProfessorDave]

WOW WOW WOW Once I started watching this video - I was hooked. Very scary - in so many ways. (Especially to me - I bought a Model Y.) Didn't realize that while he is extraordinarily bright - he reminds me of Steve Jobs when he was fired at Apple for being a compulsive liar - horrible human to others - and control freak; only a later, did he gain humility - and was able to return a more humble and brilliant force in the electronics industry.

[Blackbird45]

I do not own a Tesla, I'm satisficed with my internet, I have no intentions of traveling in space or going through one of his tunnels. As crazy as this guys is, he is delivering on things that other people just imagine.

[Two Bills]

Yes, to all of us, It’s very personal. He’s polluting space, amongst a litany of other offenses.

You should count the junk NASSA, Russia, China etc. have floating around in space.
Compared to them E.Musk's Junk is minimal.

[GrumpyOldMan]

You should count the junk NASSA, Russia, China etc. have floating around in space.
Compared to them E.Musk's Junk is minimal.

Well, and I believe Musk has plans in place to begin cleaning up debris in space.

He was told you can't make a practical affordable EV car - he did.
He was told you can's reuse rocket boosters - he did
He was told you can't make a Satellite Internet service - he did
He was told you can't make house solar tiles practical - he did
He was told you can't drill tunnels faster - he did
He was told you can't use batteries for storing solar and wind power cost effectively - he did
He was told you can't create a Full Self Driving without LIDAR - he did
He was told you can't colonize Mars - he is working on it.

The list just keeps growing.

People should be VERY careful where they get their news.

Boeing financed a website to spread misinformation on SpaceX - because Boeing can't deliver and is in jeopardy of loosing they're decades old funding and more funding.

Various ICE engine companies were involved in paying a person in Australia to spread misinformation about Teslas.

There is a large group of Short'ers that spears negative news in an attempt to bring down Tesla's stock so they can profit.

It goes on and one.

I am amazed at many of the same people that constantly dis china and the whole loosing jobs and factories to China, then turn around and bash one of the most innovative and creative Americans.

[TheTourVan]

He was told you can't make a practical affordable EV car - he did.


Which one is that? Because it isn't the Model 3.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Which one is that? Because it isn't the Model 3.

A half of a million owners disagree with you.

[jimjamuser]

um, not into finance at all eh? not into historical fact checking as well, eh?

I have locations which I can pull sample after sample of his crap, and if you want to read the legal briefs after the currently in progress trial, you will see he is full of truth twisting lies. . .

but continue to believe, its your perogative
I can understand what is being posted about Elon Musk, but, I am more concerned about a larger MACRO aspect of this situation. Musk is just one of many that have graduated from making money to accumulating enough power to partially satisfy their appetite for POWER. This was not as big of a problem in the 1950s because of the higher levels of tax for wealthy individuals. Also, corporations were NOT considered a "person" then. And it was more difficult to transmit wealth from one generation to the following generation. Basically, the tax code was changed by wealthy Washington insiders (from 1950 to today) for the benefit of themselves and other wealthy individuals (the rich get richer).

Yes, there have been many Scientific and medical inventions since the 1950s that we enjoy today. And the "quality of life" for the TOTAL society has improved, but I would contend that the "quality of Life" for the US AVERAGE person has slipped backward moving to today. One does NOT have to believe me - because there are lists comparing nations at various years as to qualities like "quality of life". And if you check - the US was in the top 10 in 1950 and is now somewhere below 25th on these various qualities.

Elon Musk may be a problem, but he is just the tip of an iceberg of US problems!

[TheTourVan]

A half of a million owners disagree with you.

So 40k to nearly 60k for long range performance is now affordable for a vehicle? Interesting.

Boy it certainly shines the light on luxury cars and means they are basically giving other cars away.

There are literally MILLIONS of iPhones sold every year, but I don't think anybody would call them affordable in comparison to what else exists.

[GrumpyOldMan]

So 40k to nearly 60k for long range performance is now affordable for a vehicle? Interesting.

Boy it certainly shines the light on luxury cars and means they are basically giving other cars away.

There are literally MILLIONS of iPhones sold every year, but I don't think anybody would call them affordable in comparison to what else exists.

Apparently, 1/2 million disagree with you. Again, you don't feel it is affordable, Okay, that is your opinion, my statement still stands. Prior to Tesla EV sold in the hundreds, or if lucky thousands. Now it is one of the fastest-selling cars around the world. I think Y's are sold out for this year. They are THE highest selling cars in several countries. So, again, all those buyers seem to disagree with you. That is all I said.

Yup, Apple is and always has been a premium phone and computer. Somehow they still manage to be in the running (top 1 or 2) highest valued companies in the world. And I think they sell more cell phones than any other single company. (That could have changed recently... I am not sure, but they are at least one of the highest selling). So, there are a few million people that think they are affordable.

You don't have to agree, it is fine to disagree. But, a lot of people agree with me.

[TheTourVan]

Apparently, 1/2 million disagree with you. Again, you don't feel it is affordable, Okay, that is your opinion, my statement still stands. Prior to Tesla EV sold in the hundreds, or if lucky thousands. Now it is one of the fastest-selling cars around the world. I think Y's are sold out for this year. They are THE highest selling cars in several countries. So, again, all those buyers seem to disagree with you. That is all I said.

Yup, Apple is and always has been a premium phone and computer. Somehow they still manage to be in the running (top 1 or 2) highest valued companies in the world. And I think they sell more cell phones than any other single company. (That could have changed recently... I am not sure, but they are at least one of the highest selling). So, there are a few million people that think they are affordable.

You don't have to agree, it is fine to disagree. But, a lot of people agree with me.

I think people are confusing wants with affordable. Its okay to want a luxury car, I have two of them. If iPhone is Premium and not called affordable, its impossible to do the same with Tesla. Affordability has to have some sort of scale and if you are more expensive than nearly every comparable, its hard to swallow that label, whether people spend it or not.

And no, Apple doesnt sell the most cell phones. Samsung does...Why? Because of their affordable options. Their premium models pale in sales to that of the iPhone.

I don't like or dislike Musk, but his price manipulation in the segment is disgusting

[GrumpyOldMan]

I think people are confusing wants with affordable. Its okay to want a luxury car, I have two of them. If iPhone is Premium and not called affordable, its impossible to do the same with Tesla. Affordability has to have some sort of scale and if you are more expensive than nearly every comparable, its hard to swallow that label, whether people spend it or not.

And no, Apple doesnt sell the most cell phones. Samsung does...Why? Because of their affordable options. Their premium models pale in sales to that of the iPhone.

I don't like or dislike Musk, but his price manipulation in the segment is disgusting

I believe the definition of affordable is that there is something someone wants that they can pay for.


You opinion of affordable has no bearing on what I can or can't afford.

You are sort of correct, Samsung has led Apple by a few percentage points most quarters. 2020Q4 Apple led sales by Samsung by 5 points. Samsung has a larger percentage of active users. But, Samsung has 994 million and Apple has 900 million. I will take that as supporting my position that Apple iPhones ARE affordable. About a bill of them.

If you were correct, the I would expect Samsung to have a much larger lead in active users.

And finally, Tesla is in business to make money , I am not sure what you mean by market manipulation, but they have not been charged with any crimes. If you don't like their pricing policies, please don't buy one. That way I will get mine sooner.

[TheTourVan]

I believe the definition of affordable is that there is something someone wants that they can pay for.


You opinion of affordable has no bearing on what I can or can't afford.

You are sort of correct, Samsung has led Apple by a few percentage points most quarters. 2020Q4 Apple led sales by Samsung by 5 points. Samsung has a larger percentage of active users. But, Samsung has 994 million and Apple has 900 million. I will take that as supporting my position that Apple iPhones ARE affordable. About a bill of them.

If you were correct, the I would expect Samsung to have a much larger lead in active users.

And finally, Tesla is in business to make money , I am not sure what you mean by market manipulation, but they have not been charged with any crimes. If you don't like their pricing policies, please don't buy one. That way I will get mine sooner.

Haha at sort of correct. You said Apple sells the most phones, and my response pointed out that was incorrect.

And I said nothing about Tesla and manipulation. I said Musk...
I have nothing negative to say about the brand, other than the idea that a 50k car is considered affordable is laughable by the current market pricing standards of vehicles.

But I get it, you are a last word guy...So on that note Cya.

[Blackbird45]

Musk at the moment might be considered expensive for many, let's be honest they're not on the low end of the scale. What he is doing is bringing a new bench mark to the auto industry. Sooner or later you will see more affordable vehicles. If not by Tesla, Hyundai, VW, Ford or GM. There all jumping in and once they've load all the bells and whistles they can stick into a car, they'll start competing by lowering the price.

[Villages Kahuna]

Z-z-z-z

[Topspinmo]

Electrics actually have less fires per mile driven than gas cars but the fires, when they do occur, are more difficult to put out. GM has a recall on their Bolt electric.

The Tesla accidents that have occurred with Autopilot engaged have been due to the driver failing to pay attention. Autopilot requires that you keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention. It is not fully autonomous driving, it is not promoted as fully autonomous driving, and drivers must still be ready to take control of the car at any time. Accidents have occurred when drivers misused the system. That is not Tesla's fault.



Mmmm, maybe rhey aren’t driven that many miles.

[Topspinmo]

Musk at the moment might be considered expensive for many, let's be honest they're not on the low end of the scale. What he is doing is bringing a new bench mark to the auto industry. Sooner or later you will see more affordable vehicles. If not by Tesla, Hyundai, VW, Ford or GM. There all jumping in and once they've load all the bells and whistles they can stick into a car, they'll start competing by lowering the price.

Isn’t all electric cars cheaper than Tesla. Status, people with money want to show it. For those price is driving factor not function.

[Two Bills]

At our local supermarket electric car charging station today, was a Jag, a Merc and a first for me to see in UK, a Mustang.
All SUV's.
Not a Tesla in sight, although there are two owners in our village with them.
Electric is getting very popular, and with gas at about £6.45 ($4.75) a gallon, they are going to get even more popular.
340 miles on a full charge, is pretty well anywhere and back in UK!

[Topspinmo]

Over 1 million Nissan Leaf have been sold and they're coming out with a new model this year. The arriya. Hardly a bad car


Yet, most new car owners don’t keep car pass three years. Even Yugo’s lasted 3 years. Well, 2 years and 11 months maybe.

[DaleDivine]

Elon Musk is a criminal. He’s polluting space with 47,000 pieces of future space junk that cannot be retrieved. He’s a space polluter and someone should stop him. .

And yet no one is giving up their cell phones or computers that bounce off those satellites. DUHHH...
:ohdear::ohdear::bigbow::1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[GrumpyOldMan]

Haha at sort of correct. You said Apple sells the most phones, and my response pointed out that was incorrect.

And I said nothing about Tesla and manipulation. I said Musk...
I have nothing negative to say about the brand, other than the idea that a 50k car is considered affordable is laughable by the current market pricing standards of vehicles.

But I get it, you are a last word guy...So on that note Cya.

But, I get it you are a last work guy, so on that note Cya.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Musk at the moment might be considered expensive for many, let's be honest they're not on the low end of the scale. What he is doing is bringing a new bench mark to the auto industry. Sooner or later you will see more affordable vehicles. If not by Tesla, Hyundai, VW, Ford or GM. There all jumping in and once they've load all the bells and whistles they can stick into a car, they'll start competing by lowering the price.

I expect sooner. All the other car makes are jumping on the EV band wagon now that he proved it can be done.

And I hear he is working on a Model 2 that will be a much lower price model.

Sort of related, on how new things come to market. Not that long ago (a few decades?), I remember seeing one of the first flat screen TVs. It was displayed in a big box electronics store, and was $16,000 for a 18 or 20 inch screen. Someone has to get the ball rolling. And those first balls tend to be expensive.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Isn’t all electric cars cheaper than Tesla. Status, people with money want to show it. For those price is driving factor not function.

Hmm, I think I just saw a hybrid at $1.5 Million. But, Tesla is the leader right now, all the others are trying to find their place in the pecking order. In a couple years we will actually have choice again.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Mmmm, maybe rhey aren’t driven that many miles.

In November 2018, after 4 years of Autopilot, Tesla owners reached the first billion miles driven with Autopilot activated.

Less than two years later, 2020, Tesla’s fleet added 2 billion more miles for a total of 3 billion miles on Autopilot. It is expected to reach 4 billion miles ON AUTOPILOT this year.

NOt a bad beta test

[jimjamuser]

Well, and I believe Musk has plans in place to begin cleaning up debris in space.

He was told you can't make a practical affordable EV car - he did.
He was told you can's reuse rocket boosters - he did
He was told you can't make a Satellite Internet service - he did
He was told you can't make house solar tiles practical - he did
He was told you can't drill tunnels faster - he did
He was told you can't use batteries for storing solar and wind power cost effectively - he did
He was told you can't create a Full Self Driving without LIDAR - he did
He was told you can't colonize Mars - he is working on it.

The list just keeps growing.

People should be VERY careful where they get their news.

Boeing financed a website to spread misinformation on SpaceX - because Boeing can't deliver and is in jeopardy of loosing they're decades old funding and more funding.

Various ICE engine companies were involved in paying a person in Australia to spread misinformation about Teslas.

There is a large group of Short'ers that spears negative news in an attempt to bring down Tesla's stock so they can profit.

It goes on and one.

I am amazed at many of the same people that constantly dis china and the whole loosing jobs and factories to China, then turn around and bash one of the most innovative and creative Americans.
I am sincerely trying to be helpful. I believe that "losing" is spelled with one O. Loosing with two Os has something to do with arrows sent from bows. Sincerely and with respect.....me

[GrumpyOldMan]

I am sincerely trying to be helpful. I believe that "losing" is spelled with one O. Loosing with two Os has something to do with arrows sent from bows. Sincerely and with respect.....me

Thank you for the comment. I was not being argumentative, although I know I come across that way.

And thank you for the spelling correction - LOL - seriously, my spelling sucks big time! The only way I will ever learn if if people politely let me know when I screw up - so, thanks, and I do mean it.

[Dana1963]

I am sincerely trying to be helpful. I believe that "losing" is spelled with one O. Loosing with two Os has something to do with arrows sent from bows. Sincerely and with respect.....me
Oh no GrumpyOldMan gets a C on his post for miss-spelling. Where are the moderators when you need them most. Then this should drive you NUTS
“ Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Could you read it? The truth is pretty much every fluent English-speaker can read and understand it.”

[biker1]

The units are fires per mile driven; a rate.

Mmmm, maybe rhey aren’t driven that many miles.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I hardly think I insulted you, but as far as fraud goes,

Promoting, selling and taking deposits for multiple years on products which don't exist, and haven't existed is fraud.

Booking warranty and repair expenses to good will is fraudulent accounting

Seeing cars is not the fraud, convincing NY to build him a factory which he never used is fraud.

etc. . .

Technically FRAUD requires intent, I think.

[Topspinmo]

Does laps around the earth count?

[Topspinmo]

So compared to new or relative new vehicles versus all the new and uses internal combusted engine drive which out numbers them by 100s of millions.

[tvbound]

Agreed!

How about 47,000 satellites polluting space so he can get richer? Long after that maniac is dead, 47,000 pieces of space junk will still either be there, or falling to earth.

He’s a menace… with a lot of money. Shaking my head…

The tens of thousands (I read up to 42,000) Musk satellites are intended to provide a way for the citizens of countries whose governments have tried to censor/control internet usage, to be able to bypass the government censorship. It's at least one step to maintaining a free, open and accessible internet globally, which should help combat fake news, propaganda and information deprivation aimed at controlling populations. I ask, what in the heck is wrong with that?

[tvbound]

I do not own a Tesla, I'm satisficed with my internet, I have no intentions of traveling in space or going through one of his tunnels. As crazy as this guys is, he is delivering on things that other people just imagine.

As crazy as this guys is, he is delivering on things that other people just imagine.

You have hit the nail squarely on the head. Screaming about "space pollution," is pretty darned humorous and is a real stretch in trying to find a reason to hate Musk. Satellites have been falling for decades and they almost always completely burn up before making it to ground, if they don't go into one of the oceans that cover 70% of the planet instead.

[tvbound]

Well, and I believe Musk has plans in place to begin cleaning up debris in space.

He was told you can't make a practical affordable EV car - he did.
He was told you can's reuse rocket boosters - he did
He was told you can't make a Satellite Internet service - he did
He was told you can't make house solar tiles practical - he did
He was told you can't drill tunnels faster - he did
He was told you can't use batteries for storing solar and wind power cost effectively - he did
He was told you can't create a Full Self Driving without LIDAR - he did
He was told you can't colonize Mars - he is working on it.

The list just keeps growing.

People should be VERY careful where they get their news.

Boeing financed a website to spread misinformation on SpaceX - because Boeing can't deliver and is in jeopardy of loosing they're decades old funding and more funding.

Various ICE engine companies were involved in paying a person in Australia to spread misinformation about Teslas.

There is a large group of Short'ers that spears negative news in an attempt to bring down Tesla's stock so they can profit.

It goes on and one.

I am amazed at many of the same people that constantly dis china and the whole loosing jobs and factories to China, then turn around and bash one of the most innovative and creative Americans.

Rooting for innovative genius' who go out and prove naysayers wrong, used to be something that most Americans held in high esteem and admired (Ford/Edison/Tesla/Jobs/Harley-Davidson/Etc.,Etc.). What has happened to us?

[Chi-Town]

Tesla is building a humanoid robot that will be ready next year. It's about time

[GrumpyOldMan]

Tesla is building a humanoid robot that will be ready next year. It's about time

I saw that, can't wait. He said (paraphrase) we have a lot of expertise on robots - the Tesla is basically a robot with wheels - LOL.

He did say next year, I expect knowing his track record, he tends to be a little optimistic - maybe in two years. But, I will be in line for that!

[Marathon Man]

[/U][/I][/B]

It's personal then?:icon_wink:

After reading the comments, yep, sure seems personal.

[TNGary]

Photo of new Giga Factory in TX. Just completed Shanghai and Berlin factories, Same playbook as Amazon, years of growth, spending much $ and questionable viability but became viable. . something to consider.

Tesla Gigafactory Texas is taking shape in new drone flyover video - Electrek (https://electrek.co/2021/07/19/tesla-gigafactory-texas-taking-shape-drone-flyover-video/)

[Quixote]

I'm not interested in personalities, in petty resentments and jealousies, in hostility by ICE vehicle owners, in adolescent type bickering, in space junk, or any of that stuff. What is important to us is not this nonsense but rather that my other half was driving our Tesla on 466 when a landscaping truck whose driver simply didn't see the vehicle and pulled out right in front of our Tesla. Before even able to move foot all the way from power pedal to brake, the Tesla stopped virtually on a dime. By itself. A lot of heart racing, but not a scratch. That kind of safety is what counts to us, and yes, we feel that level of concern for the driver and passengers that goes into a Tesla makes it worth paying for and owning.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I'm not interested in personalities, in petty resentments and jealousies, in hostility by ICE vehicle owners, in adolescent type bickering, in space junk, or any of that stuff. What is important to us is not this nonsense but rather that my other half was driving our Tesla on 466 when a landscaping truck whose driver simply didn't see the vehicle and pulled out right in front of our Tesla. Before even able to move foot all the way from power pedal to brake, the Tesla stopped virtually on a dime. By itself. A lot of heart racing, but not a scratch. That kind of safety is what counts to us, and yes, we feel that level of concern for the driver and passengers that goes into a Tesla makes it worth paying for and owning.

Agreed, and this is a comment repeated over and over by owners.

[CaliforniaCat]

This morning 7:22am CBS news piece on “Congress and the Federal Government are investigating Tesla for its claims of auto-pilot capabilities…”

Thank goodness there is oversight.
Hes no genius folks. The emperor has new clothes…

[Bay Kid]

This morning 7:22am CBS news piece on “Congress and the Federal Government are investigating Tesla for its claims of auto-pilot capabilities…”

Thank goodness there is oversight.
Hes no genius folks. The emperor has new clothes…

Thank goodness the govern going to look into this. I feel safe now.

[GrumpyOldMan]

This morning 7:22am CBS news piece on “Congress and the Federal Government are investigating Tesla for its claims of auto-pilot capabilities…”

Thank goodness there is oversight.
Hes no genius folks. The emperor has new clothes…

It politics again. They are investigating 11 accidents where Tesla was on autopilot and ran into emergency vehicles. So far the evidence is that in all cases the drivers were NOT at the wheel which they agreed to do while using autopilot.

11 accidents out of 4 billion miles driven on autopilot, and not a single death in those.

And IF someone wants to damn them for that record, then let's also launch an investigation into how many lives have been saved so far by the Tesla accident avoidance system - as reported by a resident here earlier in this thread.

I understand it is so much more fun to hate someone than to admire them.

[Brad-tv]

It politics again. They are investigating 11 accidents where Tesla was on autopilot and ran into emergency vehicles. So far the evidence is that in all cases the drivers were NOT at the wheel which they agreed to do while using autopilot.

11 accidents out of 4 billion miles driven on autopilot, and not a single death in those.

And IF someone wants to damn them for that record, then let's also launch an investigation into how many lives have been saved so far by the Tesla accident avoidance system - as reported by a resident here earlier in this thread.

I understand it is so much more fun to hate someone than to admire them.


Have been using auto pilot for about a year now and if your going to be driving on auto pilot and not pay attention your a fool. And most of if not all the accidents that have happened on auto pilot ( not sure if that was confirmed if they were using auto pilot) were from drivers who weren’t paying attention. This is still in beta mode and a extremely cool feature but to completely trust a computer to drive and not pay attention your crazy. The most amazing car I have ever driven look forward to driving it every time. Will never buy another ICE vehicle because of Tesla/ Musk

Never bet against Elon he always proves all the doubters wrong. And anyone who shorts Tesla has lost big time.$$$$
Everyone calls him a billionaire but all his money is in stock?
He sold all his homes and lives in a small 40k pre fab shoebox on site. Pretty humble in my opinion. Compare that to Besos and Gates they live like kings.
This guy sleeps on the floors of his factories. He sold PayPal and took all that money to start Tesla almost went bankrupt and never gave up!! His company ( not just a auto company btw) is now worth more than all the car companies in the world combined.
He’s wacky and posts stupid things every so often on social media but give credit where it’s due he’s done amazing things has forever changed our world! And don’t forget he’s not perfect no one is!

[ROCKMUP]

Pretty pathetic how nasty people can be.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Have been using auto pilot for about a year now and if your going to be driving on auto pilot and not pay attention your a fool. And most of if not all the accidents that have happened on auto pilot ( not sure if that was confirmed if they were using auto pilot) were from drivers who weren’t paying attention. This is still in beta mode and a extremely cool feature but to completely trust a computer to drive and not pay attention your crazy. The most amazing car I have ever driven look forward to driving it every time. Will never buy another ICE vehicle because of Tesla/ Musk

Never bet against Elon he always proves all the doubters wrong. And anyone who shorts Tesla has lost big time.$$$$
Everyone calls him a billionaire but all his money is in stock?
He sold all his homes and lives in a small 40k pre fab shoebox on site. Pretty humble in my opinion. Compare that to Besos and Gates they live like kings.
This guy sleeps on the floors of his factories. He sold PayPal and took all that money to start Tesla almost went bankrupt and never gave up!! His company ( not just a auto company btw) is now worth more than all the car companies in the world combined.
He’s wacky and posts stupid things every so often on social media but give credit where it’s due he’s done amazing things has forever changed our world! And don’t forget he’s not perfect no one is!

All true, and you left out any money he does make he puts back into SpaceX. He is committed (putting his money where his mouth is) to establishing a colony on Mars. So, any profits from the other companies that are his, get funneled into SpaceX.

[Escape Artist]

I like Musk because he told California and its governor where to stick it and took his manufacturing business elsewhere. As for being "odd" we have seen the rise of the tech genius/mogul over the past 30 or 40 years and they are ALL strange and I suspect on the autism spectrum, Bill Gates included. He's the original poster boy.

[Brad-tv]

https://twitter.com/thestreet/status/1429202012101566469?s=21

[GrumpyOldMan]

Article on the safety of Tesla's and their auto-pilot.

A Funny Thing About That IEEE Report On Tesla's Autopilot System | CleanTechnica (https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/21/a-funny-thing-about-that-ieee-report-on-teslas-autopilot-system/)

[CaliforniaCat]

Why do we need a colony on Mars?

[tvbound]

Pretty pathetic how nasty people can be.

When people consistently keep losing money shorting a stock, it can make them grumpy. What's that saying again - on the definition of "insanity?"

[GrumpyOldMan]

Why do we need a colony on Mars?

Why did we need a new route to China, why did we need a new continent.

Humans have a need to explore and expand. Is the main reason. Musk feels, and I don't disagree, that having a viable self sufficient colony on Mars give the human race a chance to survive if the Earth gets hit by a comet or Climate change is worse than expected, or COVID-24 is 100% deadly. Lots of ways life on our seriously over populated planet can go sideways. We currently use MORE resources by June every year than the earth can replenish in a Earth, and of course one of Musks favorites is the potential for an AI project to get out of hand and kill of mankind.

And WE, you and me, probably do not need a colony on Mars. Luckily, unlike ULA (Boeing) SpaceX is not asking you and me to provide funding. Mush is providing most of the funding by selling products and services - SpaceX, Tesla, Neural Link, Star Link, Boring Company, Batteries, Solar Panels, (soon to come) Tesla Humanoid Robots. etc. etc. etc. He funnels most of the profits from those all get funneled into SpaceX. Most of those involve developing technology that will be needed in a Mars colony, so it can be developed and debugged before going there.

So, The reason Musk wants to go there (he says) is that HE WANTS to save the human race. He tends to think big - LOL.

[GrumpyOldMan]

When people consistently keep losing money shorting a stock, it can make them grumpy. What's that saying again - on the definition of "insanity?"

Well, and some understand if they can in some way help the stock to take a dive, they can get rich - so, there is certainly a factor to motivate helping the negative fake news to spread.

I am NOT saying everyone here is doing that, but there are certainly some around the world that would profit by Musk failing, and numerous cases have been found and made public where they were making up fake news and spreading it.

[BostonRich]

I am sure that people who lived at the time of Thomas Edison, Nikola Tesla, Albert Einstien, Leonardo Da Vinci and any and all alternate thinking "geniuses" considered them weird and unlikeable. You need history to fairly judge Musk and he will go down as one of the great thinkers of modern times.

Could any of us accomplish what Elon Musk has accomplished? I highly doubt it. Actually the answer is NO!

[DAVES]

Wow...Elon Musk should just plead the 5th and stop incriminating himself.

MUSK ON TRIAL (SOLAR CITY BAILOUT) - 12711VCS Day One, Part One - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xPUytLhARk)

Watch TSLA.

I have the same view about most things. I have to know someone to HATE them. When, you are changing the world as Musk is you will find people biting at you heels from behind you.

Truth, REALITY, no one cares or needs to care what I think. There is an advantage to that.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Truth, REALITY, no one cares or needs to care what I think. There is an advantage to that.

I do care what you and anyone else thinks, as long as they can express their opinion without needless vitriol.

I read all your posts.

[coralway]

I can, but I assume your scale is only money. Sad.




That's why folks invest - to make $$. Personally, I couldn't care less what product a company makes, who the CEO is, where they are located, or anything else. If they are financially viable and successful, I'll take a look.

My biggest investment has been AAPL. Maybe not as glamorous as TSLA, but I got in in 1986, with a measly 200 shares. And have held ever since. They are the reason I was able to retire early. Many folks will be able to retire because of their TSLA shares. Good for them.

I admire EM, but would not own any shares or buy or sell any puts or calls - much to volatile for my tastes. More power to EM.

[Kenswing]

Fraud? Absurd.

Compared to a certain Orange person, and his grifter family, he is an astute, very successful businessman. But, I would never buy one of his products.

You pick a three month old thread to post something political. Lol

[coralway]

You pick a three month old thread to post something political. Lol





And you reply -

go back to sleep

[Babubhat]

General accusations with no support are as worthless as the post

[Topspinmo]

Elon Musk is a criminal. He’s polluting space with 47,000 pieces of future space junk that cannot be retrieved. He’s a space polluter and someone should stop him. Not to mention he manipulates the Crypto Currency market. The SEC should go after him for his comments and antics that affect Tesla stock. I don’t know why they let this maniac do whatever he wants.


So, how many has nasa, Russia, China put up there. Like 30 times more. SpaceX will be the leading space technology and run the rest out of business unless you county the back door jobs given to Boeing the greasy way.

Crypto currency’s are next Ponzi scheme. They should be illegal due to no tracking of currency.

[Topspinmo]

Fraud? Absurd.

Compared to a certain Orange person, and his grifter family, he is an astute, very successful businessman. But, I would never buy one of his products.

Would this be consider political??? I got banned for less.:coolsmiley:

[TCNY61]

Agreed, and this is a comment repeated over and over by owners.

Just don't drive anywhere near this rock in Yosemite!

Yosemite Multiple Tesla Model X Autopilot Wrecks (https://jalopnik.com/one-road-fork-in-yosemite-seems-to-have-caused-multiple-1847450848)

[Topspinmo]

Why do we need a colony on Mars?

Cause earth is slowly being used up an overpopulated. Imo in future earth will be penal colony. :faint:

[Michael G.]

Elon Musk is a criminal. He’s polluting space with 47,000 pieces of future space junk that cannot be retrieved. He’s a space polluter and someone should stop him.

If not him, someone else would.
The county throws money at him so he pollutes.

Wait until there's a disaster in outer space when this junk hits a space ship, or
starts falling to earth someday.

[davem4616]

he's got enough money to buy the best lawyers

if OJ can get off this fellow shouldn't have much difficulty

[JMintzer]

If not him, someone else would.
The county throws money at him so he pollutes.

Wait until there's a disaster in outer space when this junk hits a space ship, or
starts falling to earth someday.

As opposed to the "space junk" that's been doing just that for decades?