How much protection should we expect?

[redwitch]

After the threads about the sports pool indicent, the car hood ornament stolen and general ones about the gates, I'm wondering just how much security TVers really expect from the developer.

Personally, I expect none. Community Watch is really there to ensure that deed restrictions are followed, even though they do act as a small deterrent since they are highly visible and work 24/7. Do I really want those little old men (sorry, guys) to stop some burglar and get injured in the process? Should we even expect them to do this? I do think it would be nice if they stopped when they saw someone in distress, especially after dark, and helped them or at least stayed with them until help arrived.

Rec assistants are supposed to check IDs to prevent non-authorized visitors from using facilities. They are not there to prevent someone from entering the wrong bathroom or taking the purse left on the table. They will call the sheriff when needed.

I'm really not sure what the purpose of the gate people is other than to smile, wave and give directions. I do know the gates themselves are used to slow traffic and, from what I understand, that is their main function. They can come in handy for evidence since they do take photos of vehicles entering and leaving a village. In fact, I know of one instance where a burglar was caught because his truck was filmed entering empty and leaving full.

We do have an active police force in TV -- at least in Lake and Sumter Counties (have never seen a Marion County officer of any type in my travels). Our fire department and EMT responders are downright awesome. It is the sheriff's department duty to protect villagers and, as a whole, they do an excellent job. But, like everyone else, they can't do it all and certainly can't do it without our full cooperation.

So, my question is why does anyone expect the developer to protect us? I've never read, heard nor seen anything where the developer has promised to make TV a safe place to live. Our crime rate is very low -- much lower than the national average and most certainly lower than most cities/towns with a population of 80,000 and growing. There are several factors for this -- more law-abiding citizens live here than in most communities (the advantage of being older); many retired police officers; the willingness of neighbors to watch out for neighbors. The Villages employees are not trained to stop a criminal and they most certainly are not trained to arrest one. I'm not even sure if they get basic first aid training. Our best defense is to be aware, to watch out for each other and to be alert in all surroundings.

As most of you know, I'm not a big fan of the Morse family. I appreciate what Harold Schwartz created and what Gary Morse expanded. I think the Morses' greed factor is astronomical and beyond my understanding. I truly admire the business acumen that has gone into the creation of TV and I truly love living here. I think Morse, et al. have kept their word to build a retirement community beyond the norm -- reasonably priced housing, amenities galore, activities beyond my comprehension, clean streets and town squares, beautiful landscaping. Being safe was not something I ever expected.

[Boudicca]

Great response, and correctly "sums it up" :pepper2:

[Tom Hannon]

Great post, Redwitch. As always, you have given your comments and suggestions great thought. I appreciate it. Hope other do as well. Thanks,

[Bogie Shooter]

Good post. Sums up my feelings on this subject.

[skip0358]

Very well put. I don't think we need a TV police force nor do we want one. Your right we need to watch out for each other. If you saw something in your old home town you called either police, fire,ambulance. This area is no different. Do I think the pool areas should be a little tighter yes I do. How many times do contractors or whomever just open the gates and come on in either for water, bathrooms, etc. Your swipe card would be a nice touch. But then it comes down to the cost of installing them. Yea maybe CW could drive thru the back parking lots at night with their yellow lights on. Might help some what. As for more police? Do we really want PD roaming the squares or watching the outside bars. I think not, as most of us get in our golf carts to drive home after a long day or evening out enjoying ourselves. And lets face we sure don't want to get stopped. All and all I think the previous poster said it just fine. Keep your eyes open and watch out for each other. This is just my opinion. I'm sure someone will shoot me down, but that's how I feel.

[graciegirl]

Excellent post Redwitch. I agree with everything but your opinion of the Morse's greed factor. I don't care if he is making money hand over fist. Just because he is successful doesn't mean he is greedy.

But....the rest of your points are well made and feeling safe is what I expected and what I am getting. If it gets to the point that we need to have more security than we now have.........than things need to change.

Carol came on and told us what happened. She was not harmed, thank heavens. Have we heard of a lot of things happening like this? No. Will all of us be more mindful in that same situation? I hope so. Showering with a friend watching out might be just the right thing to do. If something changes and another incident is reported, than changes need to be made. But the sky isn't falling quite yet.

That is just my opinion and I might be wrong...as Russ says. And if I am, someone is gonna bust my chops.

[Bogie Shooter]

Very well put. I don't think we need a TV police force nor do we want one. Your right we need to watch out for each other. If you saw something in your old home town you called either police, fire,ambulance. This area is no different. Do I think the pool areas should be a little tighter yes I do. How many times do contractors or whomever just open the gates and come on in either for water, bathrooms, etc. Your swipe card would be a nice touch. But then it comes down to the cost of installing them. Yea maybe CW could drive thru the back parking lots at night with their yellow lights on. Might help some what. As for more police? Do we really want PD roaming the squares or watching the outside bars. I think not, as most of us get in our golf carts to drive home after a long day or evening out enjoying ourselves. And lets face we sure don't want to get stopped. All and all I think the previous poster said it just fine. Keep your eyes open and watch out for each other. This is just my opinion. I'm sure someone will shoot me down, but that's how I feel.

Driving while impaired is not a good idea; in a car, a cart or a bicycle. Please do not take your half out of the middle of the cart path when I approach.

[Snowbirdtobe]

I think that we are entitled to the following minimum level of protection

The cameras at the gates reading license plates.
See AAC minuets July 14th 2010

The age and residency requirements enforced for pools and rec centers

All alcohol laws enforced even if driving a golf cart
This is a requirement for selling alcohol everywhere even in TV and I
don't want to be driving through a tunnel with a drunk traveling toward me.

Published rules for "guest passes" enforced

[Army Guy]

Red Witch, you are right on the money!:beer3:

Army Guy

[784caroline]

Red Witch

Well Said!!!

[vj1213]

First, let me start by saying I am a relative newbie here (less than 3 months). I chose to live here and yes I feel safe in the area. I am not a political person, don't like confrontations, and like you say my opinion right or wrong is just that .. my opinion.
I guess the reason this security issue at the sports pool struck such a chord with me is because I have been a victim of abuse (no not here) and let me tell you from experience it's not a pleasant experience to be beaten black and blue by a man. So yes, if I hear of an incident where a lady was attacked, or her well being was put in jeopardy I will not try to diminish the situation by saying oh it was probably an accident. Believe me I don't live my life in fear, scared to go out or do anything alone here. I use the sports pools and local pools and will continue to do so. I walk my dog late at night. Yes, I do feel safe in my surroundings.
Where I have to disagree is the part about how much protection I expect. I have lived all over this country, and I have belonged to several gyms and there was always security, especially around dressing areas and locker rooms. Whether it be security cameras, key readers or whatever. It is my understanding that the developers own and operate the rec. centers and pools, so yes they are the ones responsible for the security of the people who use the centers. No I am not saying we need armed guards at every post, I am just saying if there is an issue with safety at one of the centers it should be addressed.
Frankly, I don't care about the Morse's greed or success. I love TV, this is where I chose to build and live. But one of my top priorities was living in a place I felt safe.

[graciegirl]

First, let me start by saying I am a relative newbie here (less than 3 months). I chose to live here and yes I feel safe in the area. I am not a political person, don't like confrontations, and like you say my opinion right or wrong is just that .. my opinion.
I guess the reason this security issue at the sports pool struck such a chord with me is because I have been a victim of abuse (no not here) and let me tell you from experience it's not a pleasant experience to be beaten black and blue by a man. So yes, if I hear of an incident where a lady was attacked, or her well being was put in jeopardy I will not try to diminish the situation by saying oh it was probably an accident. Believe me I don't live my life in fear, scared to go out or do anything alone here. I use the sports pools and local pools and will continue to do so. I walk my dog late at night. Yes, I do feel safe in my surroundings.
Where I have to disagree is the part about how much protection I expect. I have lived all over this country, and I have belonged to several gyms and there was always security, especially around dressing areas and locker rooms. Whether it be security cameras, key readers or whatever. It is my understanding that the developers own and operate the rec. centers and pools, so yes they are the ones responsible for the security of the people who use the centers. No I am not saying we need armed guards at every post, I am just saying if there is an issue with safety at one of the centers it should be addressed.
Frankly, I don't care about the Morse's greed or success. I love TV, this is where I chose to build and live. But one of my top priorities was living in a place I felt safe.

Thank you so much for writing this. This is a life changing post and I greatly appreciate your sharing this with us.

I would like to apologize to you personally because I am a person who does tend to diminish reports of danger in The Villages. It feels like home in Ohio to me, and unless you have lived in an area of low crime all of your life, THAT in itself is hard to understand from people who live in huge cities, I am sure. I also know that even in areas of low crime, crime does happen as it happened to you. And when it does happen to someone you know, it gets personal really fast. I am listening, and I was wrong.

I have read your post from my heart and I am sorry that you were hurt. I see that having the physical set up changed would make everyone more secure.

I have always felt that the owners read this forum, so I feel that they will do what they can to address it, they seem to try to address everything for our comfort here.

Thank you once again V. Feel this hug.

[redwitch]

VJ, like you, I have been the victim of a personal attack by a male. To say it is life changing is putting it mildly. I do my best to not be afraid and to live my life. Strangely, I feel safe in public, but not in my own home. I do not invite anyone in -- I can't. I agree that TV is one of the safest communities I have ever lived in, but it is still a large community with a large diversity of people -- some kinder, gentler than others, but most being the kind of people we want to be around with a few exceptions. We also have a large group of visitors -- from locals enjoying our entertainment to workers maintaining our lawns. Again, most are wonderful people but not all. We need to be aware.

I have used the showers in the sports pools. After reading of Kirk's experience (an accidental entering is one thing; flicking of lights, pulling open shower curtains is another), there is no way I will shower there again, with or without a friend along.

It would be nice if the showers had keyed entries (and a relatively easy solution) -- ones that could only be opened by ID cards or that rec center assistants unlocked for us -- but I doubt that will happen. Lifeguards, especially at the neighborhood pools, would be nice but won't happen, either. If past experience is the norm, the odds are that if something tragic happened, the pools would be closed just like the buffalo were removed rather than coming up with a viable solution. And if you think this won't happen, you have to remember that the buffalo were a major part of the advertising for TV and it was implied that there would always be a viewable preserve for them here.

BTW -- A while back there was a thread about workers using the pool bathrooms. My attitude was and is that we should be tolerant and allow them to use the facilities -- there really aren't many public facilities available for them. If they're construction workers for TV, there are port-a-potties, but not for the lawn people and contractors working on individual homes. They need a place to go and I'd rather see them using these bathrooms than the side of someone's house.

Gracie, as to the developers reading TOTV, I don't think so, even though I do know that some employees do lurk here (don't post, don't admit to their superiors they check this site out, but they are here). If they did, they wouldn't be so opposed to this site. (Remember, the adminis cannot even place an ad in Sun about this site.) While we may grouse about some issues, in the main it is a very positive site for TV and one that shows just how much the residents and visitors love it here.

[Russ_Boston]

I think that we are entitled to the following minimum level of protection

The cameras at the gates reading license plates.
See AAC minuets July 14th 2010

The age and residency requirements enforced for pools and rec centers

All alcohol laws enforced even if driving a golf cart
This is a requirement for selling alcohol everywhere even in TV and I
don't want to be driving through a tunnel with a drunk traveling toward me.

Published rules for "guest passes" enforced

All of these are responsible requests IMHO. Perhaps the only thing I would wonder about is how much they can check the pools. Does each pool have a person assigned full-time? If not then cost to do so would be an issue?

[Taltarzac]

VJ, like you, I have been the victim of a personal attack by a male. To say it is life changing is putting it mildly. I do my best to not be afraid and to live my life. Strangely, I feel safe in public, but not in my own home. I do not invite anyone in -- I can't. I agree that TV is one of the safest communities I have ever lived in, but it is still a large community with a large diversity of people -- some kinder, gentler than others, but most being the kind of people we want to be around with a few exceptions. We also have a large group of visitors -- from locals enjoying our entertainment to workers maintaining our lawns. Again, most are wonderful people but not all. We need to be aware.

I have used the showers in the sports pools. After reading of Kirk's experience (an accidental entering is one thing; flicking of lights, pulling open shower curtains is another), there is no way I will shower there again, with or without a friend along.

It would be nice if the showers had keyed entries (and a relatively easy solution) -- ones that could only be opened by ID cards or that rec center assistants unlocked for us -- but I doubt that will happen. Lifeguards, especially at the neighborhood pools, would be nice but won't happen, either. If past experience is the norm, the odds are that if something tragic happened, the pools would be closed just like the buffalo were removed rather than coming up with a viable solution. And if you think this won't happen, you have to remember that the buffalo were a major part of the advertising for TV and it was implied that there would always be a viewable preserve for them here.

BTW -- A while back there was a thread about workers using the pool bathrooms. My attitude was and is that we should be tolerant and allow them to use the facilities -- there really aren't many public facilities available for them. If they're construction workers for TV, there are port-a-potties, but not for the lawn people and contractors working on individual homes. They need a place to go and I'd rather see them using these bathrooms than the side of someone's house.

Gracie, as to the developers reading TOTV, I don't think so, even though I do know that some employees do lurk here (don't post, don't admit to their superiors they check this site out, but they are here). If they did, they wouldn't be so opposed to this site. (Remember, the adminis cannot even place an ad in Sun about this site.) While we may grouse about some issues, in the main it is a very positive site for TV and one that shows just how much the residents and visitors love it here.

I doubt if getting rid of the sports pools would be a viable option if, heaven forbid, something nasty happened here in the Villages like a rape of a person using the shower at a sports pool.

Maybe, after the Villages have come to full development in a decade or more but until then they still have to sell the various homes still being built or planned to be built.

The local media would be all over a rape or something like that it the Villages. By local media I mean CBS, ABC, NBC, and Fox from the Orlando area as well as the various papers from Orlando, Ocala, and Leesburg. Such an event would probably result in a hike in amenity fees for more security at the sports pools.

From the various posts about lax monitoring of IDs at the sports pools, it seems like it would not take that many complaints about this problem to the powers that be to actually get something concrete done about this.

[redwitch]

Snowbird, I love your list. I wish everything on it was enforced, but it's not. The tags being read is unless someone has hit the gate and broken the canmera. Most of the time, IDs are checked in the rec centers, but rarely at the pools or outdoor facilities (it is amazing how angry some villagers get when asked to show their ID while in the pools or playing bocce or ...). To me, there is no excuse for drunk driving -- whether in a car, cart or on a bike. If you drink, you shouldn't drive. Yes, it really is that simple. What galls me is that golf cart drivers cannot be ticketed when on golf cart paths -- just when they are sharing the road on the streets. Wish we could have golf cart officers who enforce the golf cart laws on the paths themselves. Okay, before I get on my soapbox, I'm going to sit on my hands for now.

[skip0358]

Not so sure about the Golf Cart paths anymore. The other day at the Political rally the Sheriffs Dept. was there with there new golf cart, lettered and labeled also with emergency lights and siren, This cart was recently seen driving the golf carts trails by my neighbor. At the Parrot Heads meeting last week we were told of someone who got stopped on the road excess spped with a golf cart and wound up with a whole slew of tickets. So it wouldn't surprise me at all of they don't start cracking down.

[rjm1cc]

This site will give you current crime and community informaiton on various towns. http://www.nixle.com/

[downeaster]

Excellent post Redwitch. I agree with everything but your opinion of the Morse's greed factor. I don't care if he is making money hand over fist. Just because he is successful doesn't mean he is greedy.

But....the rest of your points are well made and feeling safe is what I expected and what I am getting. If it gets to the point that we need to have more security than we now have.........than things need to change.

Carol came on and told us what happened. She was not harmed, thank heavens. Have we heard of a lot of things happening like this? No. Will all of us be more mindful in that same situation? I hope so. Showering with a friend watching out might be just the right thing to do. If something changes and another incident is reported, than changes need to be made. But the sky isn't falling quite yet.

That is just my opinion and I might be wrong...as Russ says. And if I am, someone is gonna bust my chops.

I agree with graciegirl. Redwitch makes some excellent points but accusing the Morse family of being greedy is the exception.

[784caroline]

rjm1cc

32162 is not recognized on this site

[zcaveman]

SInce I live in Marion county, I will say that I have seen the Marion county police around the area. I have seen the radar stops and the m/c cops doing their job. They usualy work Belle Meade circle.

[mgm4444]

Type in "The Villages, Florida" and it will give you news regarding surrounding area

[Yoda]

We live in a wonderful place. Do not be stupid because you feel old and vulnerable. You could destroy the golden goose.

Police are notoriously inept at preventing crime. We need them. without them we could not exist but don't expect more than you should.

Protect yourself. Nobody else can.

Watch out for your neighbor and he will watch out for you.

Do you want a cop on every Coner? Would you feel safer? Would you go out as much? Would you move from The Villages?

Morse made a profit...GOOD!

Just some thoughts.

Yoda

[graciegirl]

We live in a wonderful place. Do not be stupid because you feel old and vulnerable. You could destroy the golden goose.

Police are notoriously inept at preventing crime. We need them. without them we could not exist but don't expect more than you should.

Protect yourself. Nobody else can.

Watch out for your neighbor and he will watch out for you.

Do you want a cop on every Coner? Would you feel safer? Would you go out as much? Would you move from The Villages?

Morse made a profit...GOOD!

Just some thoughts.

Yoda

Very well said, Yoda!:thumbup:

[Bryan]

I generally agree with and support most of the comments in this thread, even the ones about the Morse Family profit. I think that particular subject is well proven in their early "sales" of facilities to the CDD's at greatly inflated prices. Still, they did a great job of developing TV and I applaud them for that.

The improvements several of you mentioned (better ID checks at pools, outdoor rec areas, etc.) I also support. We pay quite a lot for CW so, like most of you I do not want a "Village Police Force", I do wish they were more proactive in enforcing rules (not traffic rules) around rec centers and the squares and the deed restrictions. I think they could do a lot there if given permission to act. As it stands today, they cannot even tell kids to stop skate boarding on the boardwalk at Sumter Landing.

All in all, this is one of the safest places to live and a lot of factors make that happen, including US!

[pauld315]

I think the question would really boil down to "How much more in amenities fees are you willing to pay for increased security ?" I am sure they could implement any level of security everyone is willing to pay for.

[graciegirl]

I think the question would really boil down to "How much more in amenities fees are you willing to pay for increased security ?" I am sure they could implement any level of security everyone is willing to pay for.

Now we're talking. That is really the bottom line.

Pauld, I bet you are /were successful in business.:highfive:

[784caroline]

Out of 80,000 residents, if you could truly identify increased security measures at ceratin locations be it, The Village Squares, Entrance gates, Sports pools, family pools and neighborhod pools, how many residents do you think would vote for increased security resulting in a $XXX increased amenity fee???

Obviously you would have to ask yourselves what is wrong with what we have now for the places I go and use. You can pump alot of money into various security features ...no place is ever 100% secure. A prudent, cautious approach in doing things often is the best answer to stay safe.

[Bogie Shooter]

Out of 80,000 residents, if you could truly identify increased security measures at ceratin locations be it, The Village Squares, Entrance gates, Sports pools, family pools and neighborhod pools, how many residents do you think would vote for increased security resulting in a $XXX increased amenity fee???

Obviously you would have to ask yourselves what is wrong with what we have now for the places I go and use. You can pump alot of money into various security features ...no place is ever 100% secure. A prudent, cautious approach in doing things often is the best answer to stay safe.

14

[Taj44]

Now we're talking. That is really the bottom line.

Pauld, I bet you are /were successful in business.:highfive:

The thing is, we are already paying amenity fees for the people who staff the gates, and not getting any security out of it.

I agree with snowbirdtobe:

The cameras at the gates reading license plates.
See AAC minuets July 14th 2010

The age and residency requirements enforced for pools and rec centers

All alcohol laws enforced even if driving a golf cart
This is a requirement for selling alcohol everywhere even in TV and I
don't want to be driving through a tunnel with a drunk traveling toward me.

Published rules for "guest passes" enforced

[Vinny]

In Smith & Wesson I trust!

[graciegirl]

But what if Mr. Smith or Mr. Wesson shot off his mouth and it was only someone who bungled into the women's shower by mistake.

I'm just sayin.............

[redwitch]

Gracie -- I'm with you. I wouldn't trust Messrs. Smith or Wesson to not shoot an innocent. Ms. Glock (my "toy") comes out to be cleaned, comes out to practice at the range; stays well hidden otherwise -- don't even show her to others. Like you, I'd be afraid of shooting the wrong person if I started thinking it is the best method of protection.

While we can't always protect outselves from every incident, our best protection is being aware. Walk with your keys in your hand (not only does it get you into your vehicle quicker, it can be used to gouge a mugger). Take note of your surroundings. Don't park where it is dark. If someone is belligerent in the Squares, walk away and get help. And so on and so forth. Just be aware! That will save you more times than any gun.

[Talk Host]

In Smith & Wesson I trust!

Valrico, Florida is just East of Tampa. Last Sunday in an upscale neighborhood, a handsome young air force veteran (just back from Afghanistan) was playing basketball with his 6 year old daughter. They were on a neighborhood court. There was also a young skateboarder near-by.

A neighbor came out to chase the skateboarder away. The air force guy defended him. The dispute erupted into a shouting match. Then the unthinkable happened. The neighbor pulled out a gun and shot and killed the air force guy in front of his daughter.

Because of a gun in the hands of an angry, untrained individual, two families have been ruined forever. One family will live without a husband and father and a 68 year old retiree faces 25 years in prison.

Many people think a gun is the "great equalizer" but it isn't. Even in the hand of a well trained police officer, a gun often causes more trouble than it resolves.

I am a lifelong gun owner and advocate, but am terrified when ordinary citizens with no experience think that owning a gun provides them with some kind of invisible shield or special authority.

If you wish, here's the story:

Valrico shooting victim remembered at vigil (http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_east_hillsborough/valrico/valrico-shooting-victim-remembered-at-vigil)

JLK

[nitehawk]

The thing is, we are already paying amenity fees for the people who staff the gates, and not getting any security out of it.

I agree with snowbirdtobe:

The cameras at the gates reading license plates.
See AAC minuets July 14th 2010

The age and residency requirements enforced for pools and rec centers

All alcohol laws enforced even if driving a golf cart
This is a requirement for selling alcohol everywhere even in TV and I
don't want to be driving through a tunnel with a drunk traveling toward me.

Published rules for "guest passes" enforced

maybe we should add to this list nobody should carry a gun unless he or she has police officer status not peace office status.
also stay out of tunnels

[The Shadow]

But what if Mr. Smith or Mr. Wesson shot off his mouth and it was only someone who bungled into the women's shower by mistake.

I'm just sayin.............

It is so hard to conceal a weapon in the shower.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJuibrXJK29icWpqHv-FVyNH3tSt3QMcrNbjCazdtrYs3LH9Y&t=1&usg=__4cO4r61Pr6IdRKn87lG8fSDOq84=

[Yoda]

It is so hard to conceal a weapon in the shower.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJuibrXJK29icWpqHv-FVyNH3tSt3QMcrNbjCazdtrYs3LH9Y&t=1&usg=__4cO4r61Pr6IdRKn87lG8fSDOq84=

That's not a Villages shower!

Yoda

[graciegirl]

That's not a Villages shower!

Yoda

Well now, I just have to share that THAT is a picture of ME and I will sign it next time we all get together.

That's my Dale Evans gun. I lost the holster.

[mulligan]

Man o man, the subject of this thread got tossed out like a day old donut

[Taltarzac]

There are actually a few Villagers that look like that silhouette-- without the rifle though.

Pepper spray is probably a better option for warding of peeping Toms in Villages showers.

There was a crime prevention group which spoke at one of the Villages Computer Club meetings which praised pepper spray rather highly. Even said that it had probably saved a senior's life who had used it at a rest stop between here and Ocala.

This crime prevention group talks to employees at local banks, restaurants, and others.

Here's a link for that group--
http://www.metrocrimeprevention.com/

[jannd228]

Well now, I just have to share that THAT is a picture of ME and I will sign it next time we all get together.

That's my Dale Evans gun. I lost the holster.

Gracie you are my favorite on here, so funny, and I remember Dale Evans

[Taltarzac]

Well now, I just have to share that THAT is a picture of ME and I will sign it next time we all get together.

That's my Dale Evans gun. I lost the holster.

But where's the horse??? :22yikes:

[JimJoe]

Valrico, Florida is just East of Tampa. Last Sunday in an upscale neighborhood, a handsome young air force veteran (just back from Afghanistan) was playing basketball with his 6 year old daughter. They were on a neighborhood court. There was also a young skateboarder near-by.

A neighbor came out to chase the skateboarder away. The air force guy defended him. The dispute erupted into a shouting match. Then the unthinkable happened. The neighbor pulled out a gun and shot and killed the air force guy in front of his daughter.

Because of a gun in the hands of an angry, untrained individual, two families have been ruined forever. One family will live without a husband and father and a 68 year old retiree faces 25 years in prison.

Many people think a gun is the "great equalizer" but it isn't. Even in the hand of a well trained police officer, a gun often causes more trouble than it resolves.

I am a lifelong gun owner and advocate, but am terrified when ordinary citizens with no experience think that owning a gun provides them with some kind of invisible shield or special authority.

If you wish, here's the story:

Valrico shooting victim remembered at vigil (http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_east_hillsborough/valrico/valrico-shooting-victim-remembered-at-vigil)

JLK

Before you assume anything about what happened and why it happened, always realize there are two sides to every story and to wait till you hear both sides before reaching conclusions.

I read the article in this link:
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/sep/28/282116/man-involved-in-valrico-shooting-not-driving-schoo/

According to the report:

Dooley saw James give permission and came out of his house armed with a firearm and told the teen he was not allowed to skateboard there.

James pointed out that there were no signs prohibiting skateboarding.

Dooley then left his driveway, walked across Partridge Point Trail and approached James.

As Dooley walked over to him, James stepped off the edge of the basketball court and walked toward Dooley in the grass.

Dooley showed James the handle of the firearm in his waistband and kept insisting no skateboarding was allowed.

When Dooley realized that James was not going to tell the teen to stop skateboarding, he cursed at James and started walking away.

James called out to Dooley, asking why he was showing his gun.

Dooley turned around, pointed the gun at James, who lunged forward to grab the weapon.

The two men struggled over the firearm, then fell to the ground and the gun went off, striking James once in the chest.

James told his daughter to call an ambulance. He then collapsed.

A witness ran to help James and called 911.

Dooley remained at the scene and unloaded his weapon before deputies arrived.

[redwitch]

JimJoe, your recount of the event is even more frightening than the TH's original post. Why would the man take a gun to something like this and display it in such a manner? He could have called the police. The weapon was absolutely unnecessary, especially when he was told the neighbor had given the boy permission -- this showed the boy had some respect for the neighborhood and the people in it. Personally, I hope the shooter gets the maximum sentence. Barring Alzheimer's or a brain tumor, there is absolutely no excuse for what this man did.

[Talk Host]

Before you assume anything about what happened and why it happened, always realize there are two sides to every story and to wait till you hear both sides before reaching conclusions.

I read the article in this link:
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/sep/28/282116/man-involved-in-valrico-shooting-not-driving-schoo/

According to the report:

Dooley saw James give permission and came out of his house armed with a firearm and told the teen he was not allowed to skateboard there.

James pointed out that there were no signs prohibiting skateboarding.

Dooley then left his driveway, walked across Partridge Point Trail and approached James.

As Dooley walked over to him, James stepped off the edge of the basketball court and walked toward Dooley in the grass.

Dooley showed James the handle of the firearm in his waistband and kept insisting no skateboarding was allowed.

When Dooley realized that James was not going to tell the teen to stop skateboarding, he cursed at James and started walking away.

James called out to Dooley, asking why he was showing his gun.

Dooley turned around, pointed the gun at James, who lunged forward to grab the weapon.

The two men struggled over the firearm, then fell to the ground and the gun went off, striking James once in the chest.

James told his daughter to call an ambulance. He then collapsed.

A witness ran to help James and called 911.

Dooley remained at the scene and unloaded his weapon before deputies arrived.


I don't see any difference from the account that I gave. The shooter had no reason to have a gun at the playground. The version the police believe is such that they charged him with manslaughter.

[JimJoe]

I don't see any difference from the account that I gave. The shooter had no reason to have a gun at the playground.

He can carry his weapon anywhere not restricted in his permit.
We do not know all the facts. Wait for the trial.
Read my post to redwitch please.
JJ

[JimJoe]

JimJoe, your recount of the event is even more frightening than the TH's original post. Why would the man take a gun to something like this and display it in such a manner? He could have called the police. The weapon was absolutely unnecessary, especially when he was told the neighbor had given the boy permission -- this showed the boy had some respect for the neighborhood and the people in it. Personally, I hope the shooter gets the maximum sentence. Barring Alzheimer's or a brain tumor, there is absolutely no excuse for what this man did.

The article said Dooley had a permit to carry his weapon. That means he did not bring it to the fight. He lawfully carried his weapon. He may carry it most of the time.

James pointed out that there were no signs prohibiting skateboarding.
Many basketball courts do not allow skateboarding because it is unsafe to mix the two activities. It is possible the sign had been removed.

As Dooley walked over to him, James stepped off the edge of the basketball court and walked toward Dooley in the grass.
James walked toward Dooley after they had been arguing. James walked toward Dooley. When you have your daughter with you, you teach her to walk away, and if necessary call the police.

James called out to Dooley, asking why he was showing his gun.
What kind of question is that? It appears he is trying to continue the conversation. Dooley tried to walk away and James continued the conversation by asking why he was showing his gun. He should have just left it, especially since he had his daughter with him, and called the police if he was shown a gun without him provoking the showing.

Dooley turned around, pointed the gun at James, who lunged forward to grab the weapon. If Defendant claims James lunged first, this is totally different. Wait for the trial.

The two men struggled over the firearm, then fell to the ground and the gun went off, striking James once in the chest. Does that not sound like it at least MIGHT be an unintentional shooting?

Dooley remained at the scene and unloaded his weapon before deputies arrived.
Most criminals run. Most persons in the right stay to face justice.

Though a small pocket knife was found at the park, there was no indication it belonged to James, Docobo said. Let's wait to give the defense a chance to prove it may be connected to the incident. If nothing else it may show this is a dangerous park along with evidence of other crimes there and high police calls there where you may want to have your gun if you have a permit to carry.

One thing I found out in 31 years of defense and prosecution practice is the news media FREQUENTLY do not have the facts straight or have all of the facts. They can only go by initial reports which are often mistaken or misleading. I did work for 31 years. I know from lots of experience. If you want to make a fair decision, wait for the trial... that is all I am saying. The defense may claim self defense, or accident. I do not know. Wait for the trial to hear all of the facts before you decide.

If the accused was a friend or relative of yours, that is what you would be saying.

Substitute police officer for James and you also get a different perspective on this.

Wait for the trial!!

[Talk Host]

My whole point is that guns done solve problems like this. My whole point is that untrained individuals should not be using, showing, brandishing or threatening with a gun. If that gun had not been there, James would have been alive. It's a stretch to think that Dooley was in fear of his life. This father was not going to kill Dooley with his bare hands.

[JimJoe]

My whole point is that guns done solve problems like this. My whole point is that untrained individuals should not be using, showing, brandishing or threatening with a gun. If that gun had not been there, James would have been alive. It's a stretch to think that Dooley was in fear of his life. This father was not going to kill Dooley with his bare hands.

Do you believe a 41 year old man cannot kill or seriously injure a 69 year old man? I have seen it many times in my practice of law.
Would he do it in front of his daughter? I do not know this man but I have seen hundreds of cases where men injured many people in front of their daughters including their wifes and their daughters.
If the knife found belonged to the "victim", would you feel differently?

I walk my dog frequently. I have had to scare off dogs from attacking her using a stick I carry. I had one owner chase me down the street threatening to kick my A$$ because I used the stick to ward his dog off who was not on a leash, but I didn't even touch the dog. He was a young man with a very threatening voice, build, and behavior, probably drunk. His children were in the yard. He literally chased me down the street screaming threats. That is a true story.
Should I wait for him to kick my A$$, (Do I know how much damage he intends to do to me? Do I have to rely on this maniac to know when to stop hurting me?), before I show him the butt of my gun? As I am walking away, if lunges for my gun, do I not have right to at least struggle to keep possession of it?

AND Your point is, if my gun goes off, you say I am guilty of a crime, and it is all my fault for having a gun on me.

You need to understand that in this day and age, there are places that are dangerous, and people who are capable of anything.
I should not be required to be UNARMED, hope that kick my A$$ does not mean my serious injury or death (when I am being chased by a maniac).
I have not only personally experienced this but dealt with those situations many times as a defense attorney AND a prosecutor. A police officer will not jump out of the bushes to save you. They take reports and try to find the criminal AFTER ALL THE DAMAGE IS DONE. Police officers advised me to get a permit and carry a gun to protect myself. They carry theirs even when off duty.

I have taught both of my children that the number one rule in life is the same as boxing.
Protect YOURSELF at all times.

[K9-Lovers]

I and my dogs have been attacked by a killer dog, and now I carry a stick and/or pepper spray, too. Another time, I was verbally abused by an idiot who's dog was off leash (mine was on a leash) when my dog felt threatened and growled at the loose dog that was running toward us. There are so many crazies in the world, you have to be aware of your surroundings, realize the potential for dangerous situations, and always have something with you for protection (doesn't necessarily have to be a gun).

Jimjoe is right to advise us to wait to hear all the facts.

[Taltarzac]

Trials seem more about the opportunity for lawyers to spin the facts for their clients and not actually get at them. The facts are up for the jury to decide.

Sounds like Talk Host is right about this being some idiot with a gun. His lawyer might want us to believe something different but his actions speak louder than any lawyer's coloring. http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/sep/28/282116/man-involved-in-valrico-shooting-not-driving-schoo/

[JimJoe]

So much for the presumption of innocence and the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
JJ

[redwitch]

I don't know if the man was in fear of his life but the reality is he wouldn't have been had ne not been showing his gun butt. Sorry, I have little sympathy for him. As I said I carry, but there is no way I would show I have a weapon on me unless I planned to use it. That's what I was taught -- a gun is rarely a deterrant to a criminal or someone determined to do bodily harm, so don't show it unless you plan to use it.

If I were at a playground with my daughter and a neighbor came up acting rude and showing he was carrying, I'd be livid. Just by showing the weapon he's endangering my child. How dare he???? Would I confront him about it? Probably. Would I do something after he was walking away? Probably not. At least not at that point -- I would, however, go and talk to him later and explain why I was so upset and how I truly felt he was putting my child in danger.

Regardless of anything else, what happened was and is a tragedy. It could have been prevented by either of the men and it most certainly would not have happened had one man not felt he had the right to carry and SHOW he was carrying. Sorry, there is a right way and a wrong way to carry -- this man certainly demonstrated the wrong way and the repercussions of carryin in this manner.

(Boy, has the topic of this thread evolved!)

[swrinfla]

I have thought for quite a long time before posting in this thread.

I am worried most that you're all paranoid, absolutely convinced that the worst is not only going to happen, but it will happen tonight/tomorrow . . .

I am frankly very, very sad! :sad: :sad: :sad:

SWR
:beer3:

[graciegirl]

I have thought for quite a long time before posting in this thread.

I am worried most that you're all paranoid, absolutely convinced that the worst is not only going to happen, but it will happen tonight/tomorrow . . .

I am frankly very, very sad! :sad: :sad: :sad:

SWR
:beer3:

I had a talk with our family physician about this too just yesterday. He says that being fearful is a symptom of aging. I guess that can't be changed.

[Talk Host]

I have thought for quite a long time before posting in this thread.

I am worried most that you're all paranoid, absolutely convinced that the worst is not only going to happen, but it will happen tonight/tomorrow . . .

I am frankly very, very sad! :sad: :sad: :sad:

SWR
:beer3:


What makes me very very sad is that the worst does happen to often. Labeling it paranoia is the wrong thing to do. We must all be cautious. Living in the Villages is not a bullet proof vest. It's a wonderful place, and being vigilant is not being paranoid.

[Vinny]

I put my seat belt on every time I am in my car regardless of here I am driving. If i thought that I was going to be in a car accident that day I would simply stay at home. The problem is that I have no idea if and when I am likely to have a car accident but still buckle up regardless of the small chance I would need the protection. Carrying a gun is like that. The odds of needing it are very small but not zero. If we knew when we would need a gun we would stay at home. The problem is that we have no idea of when we would need a gun and like many do with seat belts, we buckle up just in case. It has nothing to do with paranoia.

[K9-Lovers]

I am only in my mid 50's and I am not afraid. I am not paranoid. I feel strong, happy and confident.

I do know that bad things happen to good people.

I am aware of my surroundings; I carry simple protection, and I am cautious. Just like I was in my 30's, and 40's. And, just like I was when I lived in places other than TV. (I was too naive in my 20's and younger to know that anything bad could happen to me). I expect that I'll feel and think the same way as I age into my 60's, 70's, 80's and beyond. Just because I will be older, doesn't mean all of a sudden I will become paranoid and afraid. Because I will be the same person, I will continue to be vigilant and aware.

Just like Talk Host, I am saddened by people who think that being cautious and vigilant is the same thing as being afraid and paranoid. Your thought process is FLAWED.

I could place labels on those that do not think the same as I do (like naive, or worse) but I try not to judge others. And, if I fail, I try not to say it out loud.

[Indydealmaker]

In a discussion of whether the developer should provide security, do not forget that expecting additional levels of security does not necessarily mean that we should expect the developer to be "out of pocket" to upgrade security. It should simply mean that a majority of residents decide an upgrade is necessary and ask to developer to handle the implementation. Like everything else here, the residents are the ones that incur the cost. Not one thing at The Villages is provided gratis by the developer. The developer either justifies the expense as a cost of doing business or passes the cost to the residence. Consequently, if security becomes a real issue, we must avoid the mistake of minimizing it because some feel that to advocate additional security is tantamount to putting additional "burden" on the developer.

[graciegirl]

I am only in my mid 50's and I am not afraid. I am not paranoid. I feel strong, happy and confident.

I do know that bad things happen to good people.

I am aware of my surroundings; I carry simple protection, and I am cautious. Just like I was in my 30's, and 40's. And, just like I was when I lived in places other than TV. (I was too naive in my 20's and younger to know that anything bad could happen to me). I expect that I'll feel and think the same way as I age into my 60's, 70's, 80's and beyond. Just because I will be older, doesn't mean all of a sudden I will become paranoid and afraid. Because I will be the same person, I will continue to be vigilant and aware.

Just like Talk Host, I am saddened by people who think that being cautious and vigilant is the same thing as being afraid and paranoid. Your thought process is FLAWED.

I could place labels on those that do not think the same as I do (like naive, or worse) but I try not to judge others. And, if I fail, I try not to say it out loud.

I hate to disagree. Being cautious and vigilant is one thing. Excessive fear is another. AND although you may think that you will be the same in your later years, your body and your brain do change. It is not a character weakness. That is kind of like saying, I won't get Alzheimer's.

Not everyone is excessively fearful who is older but it happens, probably because of a drop in the level of Serotonin in the brain as we age.

We need to treasure each other and overlook the wrinkles and everything else that comes with aging.

There is a decent article on this on WebMD entitled Anxiety in the elderly.

[vj1213]

I am only in my mid 50's and I am not afraid. I am not paranoid. I feel strong, happy and confident.

I do know that bad things happen to good people.

I am aware of my surroundings; I carry simple protection, and I am cautious. Just like I was in my 30's, and 40's. And, just like I was when I lived in places other than TV. (I was too naive in my 20's and younger to know that anything bad could happen to me). I expect that I'll feel and think the same way as I age into my 60's, 70's, 80's and beyond. Just because I will be older, doesn't mean all of a sudden I will become paranoid and afraid. Because I will be the same person, I will continue to be vigilant and aware.

Just like Talk Host, I am saddened by people who think that being cautious and vigilant is the same thing as being afraid and paranoid. Your thought process is FLAWED.

I could place labels on those that do not think the same as I do (like naive, or worse) but I try not to judge others. And, if I fail, I try not to say it out loud.
I am in my early 50's and just as you stated, I am not afraid, nor paranoid, and believe me I am very strong, happy and confident.
As I stated in a previous post, I know by personal experience that bad things can and do happen to good people. But I do not live my life in fear. I do not think about doom and gloom. Can I say when I am in my 60's, 70's, 80's I will not be afraid. No, I've witnessed others, including my parents, not necessarily living in fear, but let's just say becoming overly cautious of things they were doing not that long ago.
I am not paranoid that something bad is going to happen. You may all disagree, but my feeling is that I, along with each and every person in TV's is entitled to feel safe. If situations warrant extra security, it should be provided.

[K9-Lovers]

Gracie, I am not disagreeing with you that some older folks become excessively fearful. Some do. Others might become so because they realize that an older and more frail person may be an easier target. I agree with you that some people, old and young, are overly fearful. Maybe I will become that way in later years. But that is not what we were discussing.

The discussion on this thread turned to the topic of carrying weapons. The point I am trying to make, and others have tried to make in the past is:

Just because someone may carry a gun, or lock their doors during the daytime, or carry a walking stick to ward off dogs, or pepper spray to ward off attackers, or carry any other means of protection, or take other precautions DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE AFRAID OR FEARFUL.

This is not the first time you have expressed the same idea. This is not the first time others have tried to explain that they carry protection as "insurance" (remember that conversation?).

When ever someone says anything remotely connected to crime in TV, you immediately tell everyone how safe it is in TV. Then that prompts everyone to respond to you, resulting in a very long thread regarding crime . . .

When ever someone mentions a concealed weapon, you have (more than once) said that it is sad that those people are so afraid. That prompts everyone to respond to you, resulting in a very long thread regarding carrying weapons. . . .

If you don't want anyone to think that TV is unsafe, or think that all the residents walk around with guns under their clothes, then it seems to me you might rethink your tactics when responding to those topics, because it only encourages more discussion.

Like I said in one of the many threads regarding this subject: "You seem to be a very nice person, and I pray that no evil ever befalls you. But I know not everyone is like you."

I also know that all people who take precautions, are vigilant, or even those who "carry" are not doing so because they are afraid or fearful.

You are one of the nicest people on TOTV and so I offer my apology if I have offended you. I just can't let the type of statement you made (again) go without commenting. That is stereotyping. It is not true, and it is not nice nor polite to label people or call people names.

If you insist on restating this same idea again on the same topic in the future (that people who carry protection or take precautions are doing so because they are afraid or fearful) . . . next time I will just copy this post and paste it onto the thread. You've just about worn me out.

Love you Gracie, from K9.

[K9-Lovers]

My two cents worth on additional security: there is no need for additional security in TV. It is a pretty safe place to live. There is already enough security with Community Watch, people at the gates, and good neighbors who are mostly home all day watching out for each other.

Take common sense precautions. Bad things will happen now and again in TV, but not as often as in other places.

Let us not blow things out of porportion, eh?

[BobKat1]

Ones general outlook changes as you get older. From your mid 50's to your mid 60's to your mid 70's etc. IMO it's just a natural age thing. It doesn't mean you quit living a normal happy life, it just means a lot of things are different for a variety of reasons and we all adjust in our own ways.

[JimJoe]

I think TV is a very safe place BUT...
it will not be long before criminals decide this place is ripe for the pickins..

In my area of practice We frequently had hotel guests targeted. They have cash, they are unfamiliar with the area, they won't want to come back to testify, and they are IQ smart, but street stupid.

Crooks like easy targets, rich ones, ones that don't fight back.
Let me guess where that would be.... hmm

Think like a crook if you want to reduce your chances of being a victim.

And one more thing. I am not related to Sarah Palin to those of you who think I must be stupid or crazy (paranoid). If you think that you belong in the political forum because there that is a typical not right response to someone you disagree with.
JJ

[otherbruddaDarrell]

I worked in high crime areas for many years. Gary In, East Chicago In, Hammond In, South side of Chicago (hi there Leroy Brown), Detroit..............you get the picture. I lived in Griffith at the time and it was right next door from Gary and Hammond.
There were so many murders and shootings that they do not even make the front page of the papers anymore................so I do understand the concern over security.
Crime will happen no matter where you live so it just boils down to being observant of things around you. If you see something that seems..........and feels out of place, call the police and have them check it out.
Most people carry a cel-phone and should program the phone numbers of the various police agencies as well as community watch and the fire dept.
I carried a weapon for many years and at this stage of my life I do not feel the need to.....but that is a personal choice. Florida gun laws allow you to have one in the car and that is ok by me for when I go somewhere I am not real familiar with.
If you carry....don't show it and if you pull it, be prepared to use it.
I prefer an old heavy putter in my golf cart. I can practice putting when I want and it is also a self defense weapon.....
Times are not the same as when we all grew up and you need to watch out for your neighbors and get to know who belongs in the neighborhood.

[Talk Host]

"Security offered by the gate attendants"

I have a very good friend who works a gate. He has for years. I have even (although I'm not suppose to) visited him inside the box while he's at work. He has told me on a number of occasions that they do not (THAT'S DO NOT) have any control or concern about the people who come in and out day or night.

He has said that during the night hours, cars containing several people of various ages, genders and races come and go. I asked him what he does when an unsavory looking group enters at 3 a.m.

His answer was "nothing, what am I going to do? I'm not suppose to do anything. I can't call the cops every time a car looks suspicious."

He also laughed when he told me that every night (THAT'S EVERY NIGHT) cars containing one, two or three young women come in after midnight, and leave an hour or so later. I can't imagine what they are doing in The Villages.

[Boomer]

And who said House Calls were a thing of the past.

Blissful Boomer

[784caroline]

Talk Host

Are you now assuming that "any" woman who enters a gate after midnight and exits within an hour is up to something .......dangerous assumption.

SO all lady residents, make certain you come in the gate before midnight (really before 9 for we are all to be in bed by then (Opps)) ..otherwise I guess you will fall into this category!!! WOW!

Obviously Gate guards are needed afterhours to priovide needed directions!

[JimJoe]

And who said House Calls were a thing of the past.

Blissful Boomer

I am confident they are here only to perform good deeds.
JJ

[Talk Host]

Talk Host

Are you now assuming that "any" woman who enters a gate after midnight and exits within an hour is up to something .......dangerous assumption.

SO all lady residents, make certain you come in the gate before midnight (really before 9 for we are all to be in bed by then (Opps)) ..otherwise I guess you will fall into this category!!! WOW!

Obviously Gate guards are needed afterhours to priovide needed directions!


I think I said "young" women. I also think you know what I mean.

[Bogie Shooter]

I think I said "young" women. I also think you know what I mean.

Looks like the basis for a brand new rumor......more assumtions that will be spread around.

[red tail]

Looks like the basis for a brand new rumor......more assumtions that will be spread around.

i wonder whats considered young in the villages

[Talk Host]

Looks like the basis for a brand new rumor......more assumtions that will be spread around.

Read back issues of the paper.

[Taltarzac]

"Security offered by the gate attendants"

I have a very good friend who works a gate. .....

He also laughed when he told me that every night (THAT'S EVERY NIGHT) cars containing one, two or three young women come in after midnight, and leave an hour or so later. I can't imagine what they are doing in The Villages.

They are just addicted to skinny dipping but need to do it at 2 in the morning. They even have a club-- the Florida Young Naturists.

[Bogie Shooter]

Read back issues of the paper.

And what should I be looking for?

[Boomer]

I am confident they are here only to perform good deeds.
JJ

Why, most certainly, JJ. I am sure.

Who would ever think that it could possibly be......

oh......you know.....any of that.....

oh......how can I say it.....ever so delicately? ...........

"Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap"

Boomer

[K9-Lovers]

Talk Host,

Can you tell us what is the purpose of the gate attendants? Has your friend ever told you what their instructions are during training (if there is any training . . . )? Why are they there? It has to be for more than just greeting and traffic control. :wave:

There are much simpler and less expensive ways to control traffic. Paying all these gate attendents is expensive.

[Talk Host]

And what should I be looking for?

Whatever you think to be untrue.

[Talk Host]

Talk Host,

Can you tell us what is the purpose of the gate attendants? Has your friend ever told you what their instructions are during training (if there is any training . . . )? Why are they there? It has to be for more than just greeting and traffic control. :wave:

There are much simpler and less expensive ways to control traffic. Paying all these gate attendents is expensive.

It's well known that the gate attendants are smiling faces and direction givers. Since most of the Villages streets are public streets, they can't stop traffic, all they can do is slow it. "greeting and traffic control" combined with directions is what they are there for.

I'm sure they are trained on what they can do and can't do. What they can't do it refuse admission to anyone.

[K9-Lovers]

So then, basically, they are "greeters" . . . ?

[bluedog103]

So then, basically, they are "greeters" . . . ?

Welcome to Vill-Mart...would you like a cart?

[K9-Lovers]

Welcome to Vill-Mart...would you like a cart?

Love it!!!! :highfive::BigApplause:

[Taltarzac]

Welcome to Vill-Mart...would you like a cart?

The two do have a lot of similarities. Not in the way of their respective "greeters" though at least as far as this thread is concerned.

[Talk Host]

Welcome to Vill-Mart...would you like a cart?

Are we helping mommy shop today???

[The Shadow]

Talk Host,

Can you tell us what is the purpose of the gate attendants? Has your friend ever told you what their instructions are during training (if there is any training . . . )? Why are they there? It has to be for more than just greeting and traffic control. :wave:

There are much simpler and less expensive ways to control traffic. Paying all these gate attendents is expensive.
The only explanation I can think of is it is part of the developers dog and pony show. When visitors take the trolley tour it is plain to see TV is a gated community. Residents on this forum have asked, how did the guy with the freezer on the back of this pick-up selling meat get by the guard at the gate.

News flash that building in SS was not built in 1910.

[Pibb26]

Wow! I know the whole concealed weapons talk is a side bar...but this is straight from the Florida site....

Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.
Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.

Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.

Q. What if I point my handgun at someone but don't use it?

A. Never display a handgun to gain "leverage" in an argument. Threatening someone verbally while possessing a handgun, even licensed, will land you in jail for three years. Even if the gun is broken or you don't have bullets, you will receive the mandatory three-year sentence if convicted. The law does not allow any possibility of getting out of jail early.


Shame on anyone who has a permit to carry and chooses to not follow the law!

[Russ_Boston]

He also laughed when he told me that every night (THAT'S EVERY NIGHT) cars containing one, two or three young women come in after midnight, and leave an hour or so later. I can't imagine what they are doing in The Villages.

I'll keep one eye open!