New details emerge about coronavirus research at chinese lab

[SkBlogW]

According to Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University, the documents contain critical information about the research done in Wuhan, including about the creation of novel viruses. “The viruses they constructed were tested for their ability to infect mice that were engineered to display human type receptors on their cell,”

Details Emerge About Coronavirus Research at Chinese Lab (https://theintercept.com/2021/09/06/new-details-emerge-about-coronavirus-research-at-chinese-lab/)

Wuhan lab documents show Fauci ‘untruthful’ about gain-of-function research

The documents also include a second grant titled “Understanding Risk of Zoonotic Virus Emergence in Emerging Infectious Disease Hotspots of Southeast Asia,” which was awarded in August last year.

Under the terms and conditions of that grant approval, there is a section noting that prior to “further altering the mutant viruses,” the NIAID needs to be given a “detailed description of the proposed alterations and supporting evidence for the anticipated phenotypics characteristics of each virus.”

Wuhan lab documents show Fauci 'untruthful' about research: critics (https://nypost.com/2021/09/07/wuhan-lab-documents-show-fauci-untruthful-about-research-critics/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter)

Controls on ‘gain of function’ experiments with supercharged pathogens have been
undercut despite concerns about lab leaks

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2021/a-science-in-the-shadows/

https://archive.is/qGhfY#selection-193.0-197.41

[PugMom]

saw this 1 earlier today, pretty much the same message. Wuhan lab documents show Fauci 'untruthful' about research: critics (https://nypost.com/2021/09/07/wuhan-lab-documents-show-fauci-untruthful-about-research-critics/)

[stanley]

saw this 1 earlier today, pretty much the same message. Wuhan lab documents show Fauci 'untruthful' about research: critics (https://nypost.com/2021/09/07/wuhan-lab-documents-show-fauci-untruthful-about-research-critics/)

And this;
FOIA Release: Fauci Funded Construction Of '''Chimeric Coronaviruses''' In Wuhan | ZeroHedge (https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/massive-foia-release-proves-fauci-funded-wuhan-research-construct-sars-related)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

And just in case you're not convinced:

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

[stanley]

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

And just in case you're not convinced:

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

Hmmmm....don't know why, but Joseph Goebbels comes to mind

[Calisport]

Thanks. I knew this was true in early 2020. I roll my eyes when Americans are so obsessed with it. I blame the Chinese government and those who support it

[Malsua]

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

And just in case you're not convinced:

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

Please explain how the polybasic furin cleavage site PRRA wound up in Sars-Cov2

If you say "nature" then you need to show us which predecessor virus has this insert at that position or even something remotely close where a few generations of substitutions might lead to that insert which makes it fuse so well with human tissue.

You also need to point to the animal reservoir in which this virus existed as of December of 2019.(here's a hint, it didn't exist)

You also will need to continue to ignore that gain of function research uses a polybasic furin cleavage insert PRRA at exactly that spot.

Don't hurt yourself twisting up in knots trying wiggle out of that one.

[Escape Artist]

According to Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University, the documents contain critical information about the research done in Wuhan, including about the creation of novel viruses. “The viruses they constructed were tested for their ability to infect mice that were engineered to display human type receptors on their cell,”

Details Emerge About Coronavirus Research at Chinese Lab (https://theintercept.com/2021/09/06/new-details-emerge-about-coronavirus-research-at-chinese-lab/)

Wuhan lab documents show Fauci ‘untruthful’ about gain-of-function research

The documents also include a second grant titled “Understanding Risk of Zoonotic Virus Emergence in Emerging Infectious Disease Hotspots of Southeast Asia,” which was awarded in August last year.

Under the terms and conditions of that grant approval, there is a section noting that prior to “further altering the mutant viruses,” the NIAID needs to be given a “detailed description of the proposed alterations and supporting evidence for the anticipated phenotypics characteristics of each virus.”

Wuhan lab documents show Fauci 'untruthful' about research: critics (https://nypost.com/2021/09/07/wuhan-lab-documents-show-fauci-untruthful-about-research-critics/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter)

Controls on ‘gain of function’ experiments with supercharged pathogens have been
undercut despite concerns about lab leaks

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2021/a-science-in-the-shadows/

https://archive.is/qGhfY#selection-193.0-197.41

Yes, I know of Dr. Ebright, formerly of University of Texas now with Rutgers. An impeccable reputation that can't be besmirched. In fact, he helped the Chinese build (or was a consultant) the state-of-the-art 4 level security lab in Wuhan in 2017. He was interviewed about it at the time and was worried about virus escapes from the lab. He said the Chinese were careless about this kind of thing as there had been accidents that resulted in leaks from their high security labs in Beijing.

[cegallup]

Your repeating the same lie doesn’t make it true. Several researchers have shown this virus could not be created in nature. There will be an investigation in about two years and then we will accept your apology and Cuomo might have company.
While we are told "No Politics" - it is obvious the repeated statement was simple SATIRE ! A form of justified political criticism, which NEEDS to be addressed.

[Luggage]

Well I am not a research scientist, but I dealt with the Chinese in business for many years and I understand their mindset. First off their pay scale is horrible even for scientists doctors and engineers people that we would think we get a large salary, so if someone says I'm going to take these home and sell them and eat them it's quite possible. Secondly they have no idea of quality control in manufacturing nor do they care about quality control, so when you stayed above this doctor was worried about their security, remember that 99% of security guards in China are under the age of 24 and have less than a high school education. Now withstanding the actual mindset of the Chinese who are in charge of security as far as the actual medical research. They simply are told to do something and they are robots and cannot understand when "b" happens instead of "A".

as Sherlock Holmes has said once you take away the improbable, that it's usually the most common and simple thing that happened.

[Gunny2403]

And I care why?

[donassaid]

Fauci is a criminal who is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands across the globe. He should be tried and executed as a war criminal instead of being celebrated as an authority.

[fishon]

I care because "gain of function" means weaponized.

[Byte1]

Like I said before, we need to look more closely to the possibility that this thing originated right here in the U.S. of A. I would not be surprised if eventually we find that it came from someplace like Ft.Detrick, MD where the weaponized Anthrax was "leaked."
Not a conspiracy theory, but just very easy to assume considering it's track record. Assuming that Fauci invested in "gain of function" solely based upon something from China seems kind of strange. I would like to know if the material experimented upon came from US. That may also be the reason we do not hear very much about any concern by our gov in regards to how this whole thing got started.

[GeriS]

Your repeating the same lie doesn’t make it true. Several researchers have shown this virus could not be created in nature. There will be an investigation in about two years and then we will accept your apology and Cuomo might have company.
I think it will be a lot sooner than two years.

[jbrown132]

According to Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University, the documents contain critical information about the research done in Wuhan, including about the creation of novel viruses. “The viruses they constructed were tested for their ability to infect mice that were engineered to display human type receptors on their cell,”

Details Emerge About Coronavirus Research at Chinese Lab (https://theintercept.com/2021/09/06/new-details-emerge-about-coronavirus-research-at-chinese-lab/)

Wuhan lab documents show Fauci ‘untruthful’ about gain-of-function research

The documents also include a second grant titled “Understanding Risk of Zoonotic Virus Emergence in Emerging Infectious Disease Hotspots of Southeast Asia,” which was awarded in August last year.

Under the terms and conditions of that grant approval, there is a section noting that prior to “further altering the mutant viruses,” the NIAID needs to be given a “detailed description of the proposed alterations and supporting evidence for the anticipated phenotypics characteristics of each virus.”

Wuhan lab documents show Fauci 'untruthful' about research: critics (https://nypost.com/2021/09/07/wuhan-lab-documents-show-fauci-untruthful-about-research-critics/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter)

Controls on ‘gain of function’ experiments with supercharged pathogens have been
undercut despite concerns about lab leaks

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2021/a-science-in-the-shadows/

https://archive.is/qGhfY#selection-193.0-197.41
You play with fire you get burned.

[Bill14564]

Please explain how the polybasic furin cleavage site PRRA wound up in Sars-Cov2

If you say "nature" then you need to show us which predecessor virus has this insert at that position or even something remotely close where a few generations of substitutions might lead to that insert which makes it fuse so well with human tissue.

You also need to point to the animal reservoir in which this virus existed as of December of 2019.(here's a hint, it didn't exist)

You also will need to continue to ignore that gain of function research uses a polybasic furin cleavage insert PRRA at exactly that spot.

Don't hurt yourself twisting up in knots trying wiggle out of that one.

Is your attempt to change the subject an acknowledgment that there is no evidence that the Wuhan lab created SARS-Cov-2?

The Chinese deny it, the WHO hardly looked for it, the US Intelligence Agencies couldn't confirm it. The evidence may be out there but it doesn't seem to have been found yet.

[DPWM21]

One can find ‘data’ to support almost any belief. There are tapes, ‘the Woodward Tapes’ that have recorded voices acknowledging what one simultaneously called a hoax to an anxious nation… while acknowledging the actuality of a real easily spread novel disease. Then hiding behind the ‘preventing panic’ excuse. There is blame to cast in many directions. Even to ourselves if we don’t take appropriate precautions to stop the spread. We, the people, were lied to. A quick week in the news cycle, then we forget who contributed to our american suffering, and look back to China. A trip to Aldis, no mask, no distancing, and we don’t acknowledge that we are spreaders tho we shall never know our victims. If we spread it ..then….are we not the same as China?

[MandoMan]

According to Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University, the documents contain critical information about the research done in Wuhan, including about the creation of novel viruses. “The viruses they constructed were tested for their ability to infect mice that were engineered to display human type receptors on their cell,”

Details Emerge About Coronavirus Research at Chinese Lab (https://theintercept.com/2021/09/06/new-details-emerge-about-coronavirus-research-at-chinese-lab/)

Wuhan lab documents show Fauci ‘untruthful’ about gain-of-function research

The documents also include a second grant titled “Understanding Risk of Zoonotic Virus Emergence in Emerging Infectious Disease Hotspots of Southeast Asia,” which was awarded in August last year.

Under the terms and conditions of that grant approval, there is a section noting that prior to “further altering the mutant viruses,” the NIAID needs to be given a “detailed description of the proposed alterations and supporting evidence for the anticipated phenotypics characteristics of each virus.”

Wuhan lab documents show Fauci 'untruthful' about research: critics (https://nypost.com/2021/09/07/wuhan-lab-documents-show-fauci-untruthful-about-research-critics/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter)

Controls on ‘gain of function’ experiments with supercharged pathogens have been
undercut despite concerns about lab leaks

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2021/a-science-in-the-shadows/

https://archive.is/qGhfY#selection-193.0-197.41

Just as the U.S. and other countries spends a lot of money identifying the strains of the flu most likely to make people sick here in the next few months so this year’s flu vaccine can be made, so they also pay for studies of possible strains of other or similar organisms that might be a problem. Such as the Ebola virus. Forewarned is forearmed. That research can’t be done without gathering the animals and running the tests. One hope is that if there is ever a breakout of some new disease in humans, or chickens, or whatever, the organism will have already been identified, which helps virologists. That research is best done in countries where the animals live. It’s hard to gather hundreds of bats in China and bring them here for testing, and it is also much more expensive than working with a lab in China. So mostly this is about building a database and keeping samples in the freezers. This also involves constantly searching for mutations that might be dangerous and trying to anticipate what mutations might be forthcoming.

Here is a paragraph from the New York Post article you link to that is from the NIH clarifying what must happen if a deadlier variant is found:

[Waltdisney4life]

And you were surprised by this why?

[Jeff Coats]

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

And just in case you're not convinced:

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

The fact is that there is plenty of evidence. It has been covered up, and is now exposed. Anybody that TAKES THE TIME to look into it can very easily see what happened. The evidence is overwhelming, the cover up and deception is is no longer amazing, but frightening.

[Beyond The Wall]

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

And just in case you're not convinced:

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.
1938 Germany

[lkagele]

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

And just in case you're not convinced:

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

Plenty of evidence and its been developing since the beginning. It has always been there to be seen. You're simply too blind to recognize it. And, you're probably one of many that believe the changes to our country as a result are good.

[lkagele]

Anyone else notice the tactics being used to shut down a thread they don't agree with? 'We don't want people to know the truth so we'll shut down this thread'.

This thread is about Fauci. The acts of a prior political leader have nothing to do with this content.

[Bob.Betty]

the fact of the matter is whatever side of the fence you are on there are articles to support your views. And it is highly unlikely that you are going to change anyone's mind.

[Rscrim1]

What does any of this have to do with The Villages? I thought this website didn’t allow political references. Take you politics elsewhere. Enough! Please!

[Malsua]

Is your attempt to change the subject an acknowledgment that there is no evidence that the Wuhan lab created SARS-Cov-2?

The Chinese deny it, the WHO hardly looked for it, the US Intelligence Agencies couldn't confirm it. The evidence may be out there but it doesn't seem to have been found yet.

Change the subject?

My post is EXACTLY THE SUBJECT.

The polybasic Furin Cleavage site is why Sars-cov2 infects humans so well. The Delta varient even improved on it by changing the P in PRRA to RRRA. This makes it fuse exceptionally easily.

PRRA is used in Gain of Function research and not found in nature in these bat corona viruses. It is there because a human put it there in a Laboratory.

[rogerk]

So I guess you don’t care where your tax dollars go-who in government you can trust-do you care about the fact that “professionals lie to Congress and the American people. If you don’t care about any of this perhaps you won’t care when you’re no longer free to do the things you like to do. Perhaps you won’t care when you can no longer afford to live the lifestyle you want. Perhaps you’ll not care about what kind of government we leave for the generations to come.

Freedom is only one generation away from disappearing.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Just as the U.S. and other countries spends a lot of money identifying the strains of the flu most likely to make people sick here in the next few months so this year’s flu vaccine can be made, so they also pay for studies of possible strains of other or similar organisms that might be a problem. Such as the Ebola virus. Forewarned is forearmed. That research can’t be done without gathering the animals and running the tests. One hope is that if there is ever a breakout of some new disease in humans, or chickens, or whatever, the organism will have already been identified, which helps virologists. That research is best done in countries where the animals live. It’s hard to gather hundreds of bats in China and bring them here for testing, and it is also much more expensive than working with a lab in China. So mostly this is about building a database and keeping samples in the freezers. This also involves constantly searching for mutations that might be dangerous and trying to anticipate what mutations might be forthcoming.

Here is a paragraph from the New York Post article you link to that is from the NIH clarifying what must happen if a deadlier variant is found:

In order to believe what you just said, people have to put aside their insistence that the conspiracies without merit MUST be true. They have to forgo the notion that "fiction based on things I, an ordinary layman, can't possibly understand," has to be fact that sounds impressive so I'll believe it. They must set aside their suspension of disbelief of junk-science, and instead, believe things that a) make sense, b) aren't accusing anyone of anything nefarious, c) don't fit some kind of political agenda to criminalize something just because you're favorite political person was stupid enough to believe it and announce to the world that they thought it was true.

If lightning strikes your house, you can blame China's dictator for directing a laser beam on the USA and aiming it for your house specifically because you know the truth about an assassin because you saw it on a youtube video.

Or, you can blame it on the weather.

Some people (especially here on ToTV) will choose the more convoluted fabrication because it sounds more interesting, and they'd rather believe life is more interesting than random cloud clusters.

[Bill14564]

Change the subject?

My post is EXACTLY THE SUBJECT.

The polybasic Furin Cleavage site is why Sars-cov2 infects humans so well. The Delta varient even improved on it by changing the P in PRRA to RRRA. This makes it fuse exceptionally easily.

PRRA is used in Gain of Function research and not found in nature in these bat corona viruses. It is there because a human put it there in a Laboratory.

Then your evidence that the virus was created in China is the presence of the cleavage site.

The cleavage site could ONLY be put there in a laboratory AND that particular cleavage site could ONLY be put there in a laboratory in China. Otherwise, if it could have occurred in nature then the cleavage site isn't evidence that it was man-made and if a laboratory elsewhere in the world has the technology to insert it then it isn't evidence that it was created in China.

Do I really need to take the time to copy the links to show that this isn't the slam dunk proof you seem to imply?

Could it have been man-made? Absolutely. Could it have been made in China? Absolutely. Is the presence of the cleavage site indisputable evidence that the SARS-Cov-2 virus was made in a lab in Wuhan China? Absolutely not.

[PugMom]

am i the only one freaked-out over the chimera research??:shocked: what are we becoming?

[John41]

So many lies being told. We can't believe posters here but the sad part we can't believe our leaders.

You stated a form of the logical paradox, “Everything I say is a lie.”

[Malsua]

Then your evidence that the virus was created in China is the presence of the cleavage site.

The cleavage site could ONLY be put there in a laboratory AND that particular cleavage site could ONLY be put there in a laboratory in China. Otherwise, if it could have occurred in nature then the cleavage site isn't evidence that it was man-made and if a laboratory elsewhere in the world has the technology to insert it then it isn't evidence that it was created in China.

Do I really need to take the time to copy the links to show that this isn't the slam dunk proof you seem to imply?

Could it have been man-made? Absolutely. Could it have been made in China? Absolutely. Is the presence of the cleavage site indisputable evidence that the SARS-Cov-2 virus was made in a lab in Wuhan China? Absolutely not.

Is it indisputable evidence? No. Is it evidence beyond a reasonable doubt? Yes.

The polybasic furin cleavage site PRRA in bat corona viruses does not exist in nature in 2019. Got that?

All the sudden it emerges in humans in 2019. In fact, it emerges in 3 workers from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

WIV does gain of function research with bat corona viruses. WIV does GOF research using a poly basic furin cleavage site PRRA.

When you hear hoof beats, you think horses not zebras.

Could someone, somewhere else have done the insert, carried it to Wuhan, found 3 laboratory workers, infected them and set the whole thing off? Sure, I guess. Could monkeys exit your posterior and take flight? Sure, it's about as likely.

[John41]

In order to believe what you just said, people have to put aside their insistence that the conspiracies without merit MUST be true. They have to forgo the notion that "fiction based on things I, an ordinary layman, can't possibly understand," has to be fact that sounds impressive so I'll believe it. They must set aside their suspension of disbelief of junk-science, and instead, believe things that a) make sense, b) aren't accusing anyone of anything nefarious, c) don't fit some kind of political agenda to criminalize something just because you're favorite political person was stupid enough to believe it and announce to the world that they thought it was true.

If lightning strikes your house, you can blame China's dictator for directing a laser beam on the USA and aiming it for your house specifically because you know the truth about an assassin because you saw it on a youtube video.

Or, you can blame it on the weather.

Some people (especially here on ToTV) will choose the more convoluted fabrication because it sounds more interesting, and they'd rather believe life is more interesting than random cloud clusters.

Speaking of convoluted fabrication reread your convoluted post.

[jswirs]

Thank you, thank you....
Dear God, its scary reading some of these people 's thoughts

Not trying to be inconsiderate here, but if reading other folks thoughts scares you, maybe you should not be reading them. And, we all could be saying, "Thank you, thank you," depending on what side you are on. I've come to the point of disbelieving most of what I hear or read regarding Covid. Relying on my own logic and common sense has brought me this far, I don't intend to change now.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Not trying to be inconsiderate here, but if reading other folks thoughts scares you, maybe you should not be reading them. And, we all could be saying, "Thank you, thank you," depending on what side you are on. I've come to the point of disbelieving most of what I hear or read regarding Covid. Relying on my own logic and common sense has brought me this far, I don't intend to change now.

My own logic and common sense has guided me to relying on people who know more than I do about a thing, rather than relying on my own logic and common sense.

Sort of like when someone is dying of COVID-19 in the hospital and they pray to god and ask why they're on their deathbed when they believed and prayed every day and were devout and followed everything their religion told them to do.

And god says "I sent you scientists. You rejected them. I sent you a vaccine. You rejected it. That's why you're dying."

[Taltarzac725]

In order to believe what you just said, people have to put aside their insistence that the conspiracies without merit MUST be true. They have to forgo the notion that "fiction based on things I, an ordinary layman, can't possibly understand," has to be fact that sounds impressive so I'll believe it. They must set aside their suspension of disbelief of junk-science, and instead, believe things that a) make sense, b) aren't accusing anyone of anything nefarious, c) don't fit some kind of political agenda to criminalize something just because you're favorite political person was stupid enough to believe it and announce to the world that they thought it was true.

If lightning strikes your house, you can blame China's dictator for directing a laser beam on the USA and aiming it for your house specifically because you know the truth about an assassin because you saw it on a youtube video.

Or, you can blame it on the weather.

Some people (especially here on ToTV) will choose the more convoluted fabrication because it sounds more interesting, and they'd rather believe life is more interesting than random cloud clusters.

Nicely stated.

[Woodbear]

A key indicator of the virus origination is that China has never produced who is Patient Zero. In history, we knew rather quickly who was patient zero when it came to SARS, HIV/Aids, Spanish Flu, MERS, Typhoid, Swine Flu and Ebola. You only hide something to avoid being caught. China is 100% responsible for the development and sadly the distribution of the COVID virus. If China could have proved their innocence they would have.

[Taltarzac725]

My own logic and common sense has guided me to relying on people who know more than I do about a thing, rather than relying on my own logic and common sense.

Sort of like when someone is dying of COVID-19 in the hospital and they pray to god and ask why they're on their deathbed when they believed and prayed every day and were devout and followed everything their religion told them to do.

And god says "I sent you scientists. You rejected them. I sent you a vaccine. You rejected it. That's why you're dying."

Again. Good to see some common sense.

[Taltarzac725]

Who is '''patient zero''' in the coronavirus outbreak? - BBC Future (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200221-coronavirus-the-harmful-hunt-for-covid-19s-patient-zero)

Various organizations have looked for the COVID-19 "patient zero".


A key indicator of the virus origination is that China has never produced who is Patient Zero. In history, we knew rather quickly who was patient zero when it came to SARS, HIV/Aids, Spanish Flu, MERS, Typhoid, Swine Flu and Ebola. You only hide something to avoid being caught. China is 100% responsible for the development and sadly the distribution of the COVID virus. If China could have proved their innocence they would have.

[Bucco]

Talk about jerks that should be jailed. I don't wish evil on anyone, but that jerk(T), I sure do....
I feel bad for his brainwashed followers. He ruined our country

Been reading lots of international media lately and they seem to have begun to catch up with what our country is doing.

Experts have been concerned about this for many years and scientists have been warning and urging governments to take action to prevent exactly what exists.

Geo Bush admin took it seriously and took action, setting up a task force of scientists to advise and guide being prepared. This task force existed through the next administration and then was dismissed out of hand by the last administration. That action made our country one of the most ill prepared countries in the world to deal with this kind of thing.

When COVID made its appearance our administration played it down and even trivialized the real dangers. The United States then pulled the US out of WHO and halted any contribution to the effort. That administration then began to mock anyone taking it seriously, insulting scientists and offering “back room” fixes to people which killed more. The administration refused to accept or even display the actions recommended by experts, thus the United States lost any chance of being a leader in this worldwide fight.

Then the United States government ruined this thing into strictly a political issue. While WHO was investigating, the United States began an intensive role in, as always, placing blame with accusations about China. As the United States simply layed blame with no cause….the President calling it the “China Virus”.

Now it is politics and more politics…….people booing suggestions to wear masks or get vaccinated, none based on professional advice, but more political folks.

Being an elected official does not grant special scientific knowledge at all, and we are continuing the already begun fight among and against our own country.

We can’t even allow someone to get medical assistance in many areas because of lack of rooms or beds. Schools in some areas lack teachers, bus drivers, etc. It is mass confusion in general, and while we appear to have the attitude of “kids are ok…they will just get sick” and all I recall is the past administration saying this was a hoax, then it will just go away and many other excuses and then suddenly so many people have died.

Let’s hope this talk from the same folks who proclaimed a hoax and not a problem are, for the first time, correct.

[jswirs]

My own logic and common sense has guided me to relying on people who know more than I do about a thing, rather than relying on my own logic and common sense.

Sort of like when someone is dying of COVID-19 in the hospital and they pray to god and ask why they're on their deathbed when they believed and prayed every day and were devout and followed everything their religion told them to do.

And god says "I sent you scientists. You rejected them. I sent you a vaccine. You rejected it. That's why you're dying."
You need to read my post again. I said I disbelieve "MOST" of what I hear and read. Because it has been my experience that the majority of what comes our way is said by people that have their own agenda, first and foremost, and they operate from that platform.
And God says "I gave you an intellect, you did not use it. Instead of using the intelligence I gave you, you let yourself be fooled by those who need to save their own face and are motivated by greed. That's why your dying"

[Wyseguy]

You need to read my post again. I said I disbelieve "MOST" of what I hear and read. Because it has been my experience that the majority of what comes our way is said by people that have their own agenda, first and foremost, and they operate from that platform.
And God says "I gave you an intellect, you did not use it. Instead of using the intelligence I gave you, you let yourself be fooled by those who need to save their own face and are motivated by greed. That's why your dying"

Absolutely amazed at how many people sit by and wait to be told what to think by "experts", instead of listening to experts on all sides (before there was censorship) and using your own intellect to come to a conclusion. Perhaps I should not be too amazed, how else would shows like The View and Don Lemon be so popular if people used their own brains.

[Wyseguy]

Agreed...except your last line. Trust me, he did a terrible thing that ended his career, but he did a wonderful job as gov during pandemic...ask any NY-er. Brought daily,important info to the table that ny-ers appreciated. And if people had taken their own loved ones back to their own homes- he wouldn't have the nursing home debacle....hey, at least he isn't killing our kids like fl's G.

OK, I am a New Yorker. I do not consider forcing covid infected people into Assisted living facilities with the most at risk to be a wonderful job. His decision caused many thousands of deaths. He then lied and created a cover up to try and keep his failure a secret. Such a wonderful leader? I think not.

[graciegirl]

Politics is basically a popularity contest. Politicians, most of them will mess with the truth at the very least.

Almost no politicians have the character of successful and good people who we know well who have the remarkable good sense to not be in any popularity contests.

But that is how we run this country.

And the onesided media holds the reporting of news by their vulnerable parts.

Now wait.

Wait.

Y'all know what will happen next.

[Wyseguy]

Not trying to be inconsiderate here, but if reading other folks thoughts scares you, maybe you should not be reading them. And, we all could be saying, "Thank you, thank you," depending on what side you are on. I've come to the point of disbelieving most of what I hear or read regarding Covid. Relying on my own logic and common sense has brought me this far, I don't intend to change now.

I agree, some peoples posts (like the one you referenced) are so divisive, nasty and foolish. Thank you Thank You Thank You that they are not my neighbors.

[Spalumbos62]

OK, I am a New Yorker. I do not consider forcing covid infected people into Assisted living facilities with the most at risk to be a wonderful job. His decision caused many thousands of deaths. He then lied and created a cover up to try and keep his failure a secret. Such a wonderful leader? I think not.

You weren't listening...I wasn't talking about that, I was referencing the daily update, which btw, the whole nation watched.

Such a dilemma, sick covidelderly, removed from hospital... what to do with them? Their families didn't care, otherwise THEY would of taken them, so he sent back to their "listed" home address... the nursing homes(it's a care facility)....not the street.
Now the ones that closed their doors on gramma want to sue....what a surprise.

[stanley]

Anyone else notice the tactics being used to shut down a thread they don't agree with? 'We don't want people to know the truth so we'll shut down this thread'.

This thread is about Fauci. The acts of a prior political leader have nothing to do with this content.

You know....thinking about it, you might be right. Always the same people try to turn it around and this thread is no different.

[Bucco]

Politics is basically a popularity contest. Politicians, most of them will mess with the truth at the very least.

Almost no politicians have the character of successful and good people who we know well who have the remarkable good sense to not be in any popularity contests.

But that is how we run this country.

And the onesided media holds the reporting of news by their vulnerable parts.

Now wait.

Wait.

Y'all know what will happen next.

I respectfully disagree with this statement...

“Almost no politicians have the character of successful and good people who we know well who have the remarkable good sense to not be in any popularity contests.”


And also disagree totally with this...

“And the onesided media holds the reporting of news by their vulnerable parts.”



BOTH are simply recent additions to the demise of our country.

If you really believe what you said, must be frustrating to even get out of bed in the morning.

No, all politicians are honest, moral, etc. but the United States is replete with resignations because of honor, parties preventing nominations because of character.

And I can net recall even one instance of an elected official passing him or herself off as someone who is to decide any scientific issue, yet to dare lie about it. G Bush comes to mind and the anguish he went through making a decision on stem cell research.

No, I have much more confidence in our system than you. It is limping right now, and has and is under attack for a few years, and surprising to me even, openly with no qualms.

I prefer my country to any one leader, and trust my country. I can see lies, and I can see hypocritical behavior on any side, and mostly will fight for my country, and never give up. What we are experiencing in this pandemic behavior is simply unamerican. The lies, accusation and hate defended on this forum and other places is unforgivable and certainly will be not be forgotten.

[John41]

You know....thinking about it, you might be right. Always the same people try to turn it around and this thread is no different.


You are correct a handful of posters try to get a thread shut down if it doesn’t fit their political narrative. Their posts are often long, obtuse, lacking facts and frequent. They try to draw you into off topic side issues. There is lots of evidence both direct and circumstantial that the virus was man made and the OP is correct. A full investigation is warranted.

[Taltarzac725]

The COVID lab-leak hypothesis: what scientists do and don’t know (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3)

This has a pretty thorough discussion of this topic.

[Bucco]

You are correct a handful of posters try to get a thread shut down if it doesn’t fit their political narrative. Their posts are often long, obtuse, lacking facts and frequent. They try to draw you into off topic side issues. There is lots of evidence both direct and circumstantial that the virus was man made and the OP is correct. A full investigation is warranted.

First, I agree with the investigation part of your post. It has been done by various groups, and certainly should/will be many more. Problem is, on this forum the reliance is on theories grounded not in facts in evidence or even mentioned.

If Dr Faucci lied so many times to Congress, there is no penalty great enough to cover how I feel. Nothing in these links show anything.

As far as posts are concerned, this has been made political and not by me. Look back to spring of 2020 to find that birth. When the posts join a campaign of politics to accuse over and over, no matter the facts, it is hard to escape. I trust the moderators are able to easily choose those posts that don’t even try to address the thread title.

[lkagele]

In order to believe what you just said, people have to put aside their insistence that the conspiracies without merit MUST be true. They have to forgo the notion that "fiction based on things I, an ordinary layman, can't possibly understand," has to be fact that sounds impressive so I'll believe it. They must set aside their suspension of disbelief of junk-science, and instead, believe things that a) make sense, b) aren't accusing anyone of anything nefarious, c) don't fit some kind of political agenda to criminalize something just because you're favorite political person was stupid enough to believe it and announce to the world that they thought it was true.

If lightning strikes your house, you can blame China's dictator for directing a laser beam on the USA and aiming it for your house specifically because you know the truth about an assassin because you saw it on a youtube video.

Or, you can blame it on the weather.

Some people (especially here on ToTV) will choose the more convoluted fabrication because it sounds more interesting, and they'd rather believe life is more interesting than random cloud clusters.

I've read enough of your posts to know the phrase 'without merit' means any post that doesn't agree with you.

Might surprise you but there are other experts out there that know as much or more than Fauci.

[lkagele]

My own logic and common sense has guided me to relying on people who know more than I do about a thing, rather than relying on my own logic and common sense.

Sort of like when someone is dying of COVID-19 in the hospital and they pray to god and ask why they're on their deathbed when they believed and prayed every day and were devout and followed everything their religion told them to do.

And god says "I sent you scientists. You rejected them. I sent you a vaccine. You rejected it. That's why you're dying."

Do you even realize how circular your reasoning is?

I don't rely on my own logic and common sense but my logic and common sense tells me.....

[Bucco]

The COVID lab-leak hypothesis: what scientists do and don’t know (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3)

This has a pretty thorough discussion of this topic.

Great link.

But, it will not be received well on this forum should any of these folks decide to read it.

Great read. We all want an answer, and this read shows those who care have been and are totally invested in getting the truth.

That includes Dr Faucci, if anyone reads.

[lkagele]

OK, I am a New Yorker. I do not consider forcing covid infected people into Assisted living facilities with the most at risk to be a wonderful job. His decision caused many thousands of deaths. He then lied and created a cover up to try and keep his failure a secret. Such a wonderful leader? I think not.

There was a reason his Pulitzer prize was taken away.

[jswirs]

I respectfully disagree with this statement...

“Almost no politicians have the character of successful and good people who we know well who have the remarkable good sense to not be in any popularity contests.”


And also disagree totally with this...

“And the onesided media holds the reporting of news by their vulnerable parts.”



BOTH are simply recent additions to the demise of our country.

If you really believe what you said, must be frustrating to even get out of bed in the morning.

No, all politicians are honest, moral, etc. but the United States is replete with resignations because of honor, parties preventing nominations because of character.

And I can net recall even one instance of an elected official passing him or herself off as someone who is to decide any scientific issue, yet to dare lie about it. G Bush comes to mind and the anguish he went through making a decision on stem cell research.

No, I have much more confidence in our system than you. It is limping right now, and has and is under attack for a few years, and surprising to me even, openly with no qualms.

I prefer my country to any one leader, and trust my country. I can see lies, and I can see hypocritical behavior on any side, and mostly will fight for my country, and never give up. What we are experiencing in this pandemic behavior is simply unamerican. The lies, accusation and hate defended on this forum and other places is unforgivable and certainly will be not be forgotten.

The self agenda and greed by our politicians has been going on for decades. IMO, anyone who goes to Washington, with honesty and integrity, will soon be, literally, squashed. I suggest you view the 1939 film, "Mr. Smith goes to Washington", Staring Jimmy Stuart and Jean Arthur. That film depicts the "Tip of the iceberg", for what is happening today. Don't misunderstand, I LOVE my country, but I am beginning to fear my government, and I mean both major parties.

[Bucco]

So, DR. Fauci should be "executed"? That IS just a TINY bit over the top. And a WHOLE LOT of NASTY!

On this forum, so many have been taught, and really believe that creating villains, attacking them personally will lead to power.

Guess it will take no more villains and anyone to hate to stop that. It has certainly pushed our country to the back over the past years. No ideas for the country, but lots of proven unsubstantiated accusations and hate does not make for growth of our country.

[Bucco]

The self agenda and greed by our politicians has been going on for decades. IMO, anyone who goes to Washington, with honesty and integrity, will soon be, literally, squashed. I suggest you view the 1939 film, "Mr. Smith goes to Washington", Staring Jimmy Stuart and Jean Arthur. That film depicts the "Tip of the iceberg", for what is happening today. Don't misunderstand, I LOVE my country, but I am beginning to fear my government, and I mean both major parties.

I do not fear my government, but do fear those who attack it constantly and as a matter of course. Change in direction, when needed, has a route. It is not public accusations and hate, but requires LISTENING and discussing with the aim being what is best for the country, not simple political power.

And if I recall in the movie you reference voters would not tolerate lying in public under any circumstance. Although long time since I saw it. And those who wanted only raw power short on ideas were not tolerated

And the other lesson in the movie you reference......do not fear the government, but fear those voters who send the wrong people to serve., and those who are privileged to serve need to be held accountable.

[stanley]

Just agreeing using the NY Post as credible is surprising

We wouldn't expect anything less from you.

[Bucco]

We wouldn't expect anything less from you.

Murdoch does not hide his goals and aims.

[jimjamuser]

Just as the U.S. and other countries spends a lot of money identifying the strains of the flu most likely to make people sick here in the next few months so this year’s flu vaccine can be made, so they also pay for studies of possible strains of other or similar organisms that might be a problem. Such as the Ebola virus. Forewarned is forearmed. That research can’t be done without gathering the animals and running the tests. One hope is that if there is ever a breakout of some new disease in humans, or chickens, or whatever, the organism will have already been identified, which helps virologists. That research is best done in countries where the animals live. It’s hard to gather hundreds of bats in China and bring them here for testing, and it is also much more expensive than working with a lab in China. So mostly this is about building a database and keeping samples in the freezers. This also involves constantly searching for mutations that might be dangerous and trying to anticipate what mutations might be forthcoming.

Here is a paragraph from the New York Post article you link to that is from the NIH clarifying what must happen if a deadlier variant is found:
I believe that I read that here in the US, some cats, dogs, and even a tiger in a zoo (I think San Diego) have DEVELOPED CV. So, if it can cross species lines from human to lower mammals - it IS likely that it could go from lower species to human.

[jimjamuser]

the fact of the matter is whatever side of the fence you are on there are articles to support your views. And it is highly unlikely that you are going to change anyone's mind.
People change their minds often. It often depends on the way their friends feel, their social circle. Change is part of life - fashion changes. If people's minds never changed, we would still be spinning "hula hoops" from the 1950s - as an obscure example.

[PugMom]

Who is '''patient zero''' in the coronavirus outbreak? - BBC Future (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200221-coronavirus-the-harmful-hunt-for-covid-19s-patient-zero)

Various organizations have looked for the COVID-19 "patient zero".

very interesting. thx for sharing

[jimbomaybe]

Hmmmm....don't know why, but Joseph Goebbels comes to mind At times I think there is a differential between how often a persons posts and how emphatic the post and how to weigh the information given, we all have opinions some more strongly held than others , and the stronger the opinions we hold the more they need to be self examined carefully

[lkagele]

The COVID lab-leak hypothesis: what scientists do and don’t know (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01529-3)

This has a pretty thorough discussion of this topic.

I've read that article and re-read it today. On the surface it looks pretty good and gives arguments both ways and concludes there isn't enough info one way or the other. There are some issues with it however.

I do wish it had addressed information provided by Dr. Li-Meng Yan. She's the Chinese virologist that defected to the US. She claims without a doubt the virus was man made AND released intentionally. Her information certainly should have been included in an article such as this one.

Also, there are studies out claiming the genome sequencing of this virus has never been seen occurring naturally in any other covid viruses. Your article relies on Kristen Anderson to refute those claims. She, however, is somewhat suspect.

Here's what she initially wrote about the virus back in January, 2020:

"One has to look really closely at all the sequences to see that some
of the features (potentially) look engineered . . . . Eddie [Holmes],
Bob [Garry], Mike [Ferguson] and myself all find the genome
inconsistent with evolutionary theory."

3 days later AFTER a conference call with Fauci she states:

"The main crackpot theories going around at the moment relate to
this virus being somehow engineered . . . and that is demonstrably
not the case."

No one has come up with any additional studies or work she did justifying the change in her findings.

I still lean towards man made. Released intentionally or not? Still up in the air but I look at what country has benefitted the most economically. I also look at what country benefits the most politically from having other countries in upheaval and turmoil due to severe in-fighting. I think the answer points to only source.

[jimjamuser]

On this forum, so many have been taught, and really believe that creating villains, attacking them personally will lead to power.

Guess it will take no more villains and anyone to hate to stop that. It has certainly pushed our country to the back over the past years. No ideas for the country, but lots of proven unsubstantiated accusations and hate does not make for growth of our country.
All the great Dictators in world History have gained personal power by using weaker groups to step on. Intensifying the search for the "origins" of Covid 19 allows power to accumulate to individuals and small groups by blaming China - create a "bogeyman" and then squash them - thus making yourself WONDERFUL and BLAMELESS!

[SkBlogW]

And I love that the NY Post was used as a reliable source.



This story was broken by The Intercept, who filed the FOIA that resulted in release of these documents. The Intercept is definitely a left leaning organization.

The reason I posted link to NY Post is because they had an actual screenshot of one of the relevant parts of the documents.

The third link I posted was to Washington Post article, which has info on how gain of function research controls have been subverted and weakened.

So the original scoop was delivered by a left leaning website with some principals, more info given by left leaning WAPO, and you choose to discount the whole story because of a link to NY Post that had actual screenshot of one of the documents. :shocked:

[Wyseguy]

Why is the above message of misdirected hate allowed on these pages?

And I love that the NY Post was used as a reliable source.

I think I'm done with Talk otv.

Chinese scientists created COVID-19 in a lab and then tried to cover their tracks, new study claims | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html)
Covid was most likely created in a lab. Here is why.

[Wyseguy]

This story was broken by The Intercept, who filed the FOIA that resulted in release of these documents. The Intercept is definitely a left leaning organization.

The reason I posted link to NY Post is because they had an actual screenshot of one of the relevant parts of the documents.

The third link I posted was to Washington Post article, which has info on how gain of function research controls have been subverted and weakened.

So the original scoop was delivered by a left leaning website with some principals, more info given by left leaning WAPO, and you choose to discount the whole story because of a link to NY Post that had actual screenshot of one of the documents. :shocked:


But as an alt left communist liberal democrat I do not like the facts presented by the NYPost. I am sorry but I must say, since it shows I am biased, I must say that the paper is not credible.

[SkBlogW]

Stop with the political BS please, it has no place in this thread. If you would like to understand the issues, you might start with this guy, who has read all 200 pages of the FOIA documents and is eminently qualified to provide expert comments.

Molecular biologist Dr. Richard H. Ebright, PhD

Board of Governors Professor of Chemistry and Chemical Biology at Rutgers University, Dr. Richard H. Ebright, PhD, is also Laboratory Director at the Waksman Institute of Microbiology and serves as project leader on two National Institutes of Health research grants.

Dr. Richard Ebright received his AB in Biology and his PhD in Microbiology and Molecular Genetics from Harvard University. He has more than one hundred sixty publications and more than forty issued and pending patents. He is member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and a Fellow of the American Association for Advancement of Science, the American Academy of Microbiology, and the Infectious Diseases Society of America.

I have been reading articles by Dr Ebright and following his twitter account for over a year, and have seen zero evidence of political bias. He is a true scientist in every respect.

First, a Twitter thread by Dr Enbright after he read the documents. Read all his comments at link below.


Richard H. Ebright
@R_H_Ebright
·
Sep 6
The documents make it clear that assertions by the NIH Director, Francis Collins, and the NIAID Director, Anthony Fauci, that the NIH did not support gain-of-function research or potential pandemic pathogen enhancement at WIV are untruthful.

https://mobile.twitter.com/R_H_Ebright/status/1435053505169944579?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Second, an interview of Dr Ebright from March 26, 2021

Excerpts:

There are three lines of circumstantial evidence that are worth noting.

First, the outbreak occurred in Wuhan, a city of 11 million persons that does not contain horseshoe-bat colonies, that is tens of kilometers
from, and that is outside the flight range of, the nearest known horseshoe-bat colonies. Furthermore, the outbreak occurred at a time of year when horseshoe bats are in hibernation and do not leave colonies.

Second, the outbreak occurred in Wuhan, on the doorstep of the laboratory that conducts the world’s largest research project on horseshoe bat viruses, that has the world’s largest collection of horseshoe-bat viruses, and that possessed and worked with the world’s closest sequenced relative of the outbreak virus. The laboratory actively searched for new horseshoe-bat viruses in horseshoe-bat colonies in caves in remote rural areas in Yunnan province, brought those new horseshoe-bat viruses to Wuhan, and then mass-produced, genetically manipulated, and studied those new horseshoe-bat viruses, year-round, inside Wuhan.

Third, the bat-SARS-related-coronavirus projects at the Wuhan Institute of Virology used personal protective equipment (usually just gloves; sometimes not even gloves) and biosafety standards (usually just biosafety level 2) that would pose very high risk of infection of field-collection, field-survey, or laboratory staff upon contact with a virus having the transmission properties of SARS-CoV-2.

But Dr. Ralph Baric, who is considered the US leading expert in coronavirus, so he probably is the world one, says that is possible to engineer a virus in a lab without leaving a trace of the manipulation.

The fact that the genome sequence of this virus shows no signatures of human manipulation rules out the kinds of gain-of-function (GoF) research that leave signatures. But this does not rule out kinds of GoF research that do not leave signatures

An interview with Richard Ebright: The WHO investigation members were 'participants in disinformation' (https://noqreport.com/2021/03/26/an-interview-with-richard-ebright-the-who-investigation-members-were-participants-in-disinformation/)

[Escape Artist]

I believe that I read that here in the US, some cats, dogs, and even a tiger in a zoo (I think San Diego) have DEVELOPED CV. So, if it can cross species lines from human to lower mammals - it IS likely that it could go from lower species to human.

No, that's not the way it works. Although many people nowadays think their pets are human but they're not. :rolleyes:

[John41]

I've read that article and re-read it today. On the surface it looks pretty good and gives arguments both ways and concludes there isn't enough info one way or the other. There are some issues with it however.

I do wish it had addressed information provided by Dr. Li-Meng Yan. She's the Chinese virologist that defected to the US. She claims without a doubt the virus was man made AND released intentionally. Her information certainly should have been included in an article such as this one.

Also, there are studies out claiming the genome sequencing of this virus has never been seen occurring naturally in any other covid viruses. Your article relies on Kristen Anderson to refute those claims. She, however, is somewhat suspect.

Here's what she initially wrote about the virus back in January, 2020:

"One has to look really closely at all the sequences to see that some
of the features (potentially) look engineered . . . . Eddie [Holmes],
Bob [Garry], Mike [Ferguson] and myself all find the genome
inconsistent with evolutionary theory."

3 days later AFTER a conference call with Fauci she states:

"The main crackpot theories going around at the moment relate to
this virus being somehow engineered . . . and that is demonstrably
not the case."

No one has come up with any additional studies or work she did justifying the change in her findings.

I still lean towards man made. Released intentionally or not? Still up in the air but I look at what country has benefitted the most economically. I also look at what country benefits the most politically from having other countries in upheaval and turmoil due to severe in-fighting. I think the answer points to only source.

Well stated. I believe she and other experts will be called to testify when a full investigation is undertaken in two years.

[Escape Artist]

How is this allowed on this SO CALL NO POLITICS site!
Goes to show which way they stand on monitoring this board, same with before the elections. They would let some posts get by while other post leaning the other way did not.
I say the word SENILE directed at a political person, and I get a 1 point bad demerit, with message deleted and threatening to kick me off the board!
If you don't see Popeye again is because they kicked me out after they read this message. what a joke!

Yes, in the short time I've been a poster on this forum I've sensed a "leaning".

The reality is this: I had to pay $50,000 more for my small house in TV than I would have 2 or 3 months before, and why? Because, as my realtor told me, there was a mass exodus in the spring of residents from certain states, desperate to avoid the encroaching COVID mandates, corrosive politics, high taxes (and more to come!) and legislation that had made their states uninhabitable, over-priced basket cases. The realtor told me they'd never seen anything like it, the desperation to get out of said states in a hurry. I don't think those with certain leanings would be clawing tooth and nail to live in Gov. DeSantis' Florida. I'd like to see this forum reflect the reality of TV a little more instead of punishing those who wish to speak their mind freely.

[Taltarzac725]

Li-Meng Yan - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Meng_Yan)

She looks like a hack scientist. She was used for political ends and and very willingly it looks like. She also seems to have little integrity and her scientific work has a very poor reputation.

[holger danske]

Li-Meng Yan - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Meng_Yan)

She looks like a hack scientist. She was used for political ends and and very willing it looks like. She also seems to have little integrity and her scientific work has a very poor reputation.

and that's probably why Fauci included her on a conference call with other scientists to push his agenda.

[Taltarzac725]

and that's probably why Fauci included her on a conference call with other scientists to push his agenda.

When did he do that? Fauci has many eyes on him as well as ears and would probably want to keep a good reputation.

[holger danske]

When did he do that? Fauci has many eyes on him as well as ears and would probably want to keep a good reputation.

Dr. Fauci says scientists in secret February 2020 call said COVID was 'possibly an engineered virus' (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9702125/amp/Dr-Fauci-says-scientists-secret-February-2020-call-said-COVID-possibly-engineered-virus.html)

Feb 1, 2020

also
Fauci on COVID origins, lab leaks, emails and a call with scientists (https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/06/17/covid-19-fauci-lab-leaks-wuhan-china-origins/7737494002/)

[holger danske]

Oh, and he didn't tell anyone on the WH taskforce about the call.

[Bill14564]

Dr. Fauci says scientists in secret February 2020 call said COVID was 'possibly an engineered virus' (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9702125/amp/Dr-Fauci-says-scientists-secret-February-2020-call-said-COVID-possibly-engineered-virus.html)

Feb 1, 2020

also
Fauci on COVID origins, lab leaks, emails and a call with scientists (https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/06/17/covid-19-fauci-lab-leaks-wuhan-china-origins/7737494002/)

I missed where either of these article mention Li-Meng Yan.

There is an unflattering wikipedia article about her. (EDIT: Just noticed the wikipedia link was already provided)

[jimbomaybe]

All the great Dictators in world History have gained personal power by using weaker groups to step on. Intensifying the search for the "origins" of Covid 19 allows power to accumulate to individuals and small groups by blaming China - create a "bogeyman" and then squash them - thus making yourself WONDERFUL and BLAMELESS! Always works for politicians

[Bucco]

I missed where either of these article mention Li-Meng Yan.

There is an unflattering wikipedia article about her. (EDIT: Just noticed the wikipedia link was already provided)

No, it never ever mentioned her name although the posters did.

Also missing was any indication of her other ties....some familiar names...

Dr. Li-Meng Yan wanted to remain anonymous. It was mid-January, and Dr. Yan, a researcher in Hong Kong, had been hearing rumors about a dangerous new virus in mainland China that the government was playing down. Terrified for her personal safety and career, she reached out to her favorite Chinese YouTube host, known for criticizing the Chinese government.

Within days, the host was telling his 100,000 followers that the coronavirus had been deliberately released by the Chinese Communist Party. He wouldn’t name the whistle-blower, he said, because officials could make the person “disappear.”

By September, Dr. Yan had abandoned caution. She appeared in the United States on Fox News making the unsubstantiated claim to millions that the coronavirus was a bio-weapon manufactured by China.

Note...I eliminated the link because it made many referrals to the political aspect of it. I copied and pasted nay what erred to the accusations rendered. Should anyone want the link, I will supply it, but it came from The New York Times

The continuing condemnation of another human being continues, while these same posters will defend while watching a video proving facts.

Sad that this stuff continues in our country and that wild conspiracy theories are abundant and promulgated. This kind of persecution (which includes death threats on Faucci, etc) was always something Americans were flabbergasted by in other countries.

Now, as with any third world country, we are wide open to these conspiracy theories, no matter how many have been proven untrue and only begun to further other things.

If you read the article, it will detail how this got started, more importantly all the players.

[lkagele]

But as an alt left communist liberal democrat I do not like the facts presented by the NYPost. I am sorry but I must say, since it shows I am biased, I must say that the paper is not credible.

Just because you believe the paper is biased doesn't mean its reporting is not factual. You're probably still hung up on the Hunter laptop story it broke. That turned out to be 100% accurate.

Do like the rest of us do. Google, Bing, DuckDuckgo and/or Qwant to see if what's being reported can be verified. You'll find in this instance, the NY Post is factual.

[nick demis]

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

And just in case you're not convinced:

There’s no evidence that the Wuhan laboratory, with or without funding from an NIH grant, created SARS-CoV-2.

Keep trying to convince yourself because you are one of the very few that refuses to wake up. I just made a joke, the woke that wont wake up. Ha Ha Ha

[coffeebean]

Political stuff like this should be removed because it is political and posters with an iq of less than 60 should not be allowed to post. Especially ones who cannot spell.

Can't handle the TRUTH, can ya?

[SkBlogW]

No, it never ever mentioned her name although the posters did.

Also missing was any indication of her other ties....some familiar names...

Dr. Li-Meng Yan wanted to remain anonymous. It was mid-January, and Dr. Yan, a researcher in Hong Kong, had been hearing rumors about a dangerous new virus in mainland China that the government was playing down. Terrified for her personal safety and career, she reached out to her favorite Chinese YouTube host, known for criticizing the Chinese government.

Within days, the host was telling his 100,000 followers that the coronavirus had been deliberately released by the Chinese Communist Party. He wouldn’t name the whistle-blower, he said, because officials could make the person “disappear.”

By September, Dr. Yan had abandoned caution. She appeared in the United States on Fox News making the unsubstantiated claim to millions that the coronavirus was a bio-weapon manufactured by China.

How Steve Bannon and a Chinese Billionaire Created a Right-Wing Coronavirus Media Sensation - The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/business/media/steve-bannon-china.html)

The continuing condemnation of another human being continues, while these same posters will defend while watching a video proving facts.

Sad that this stuff continues in our country and that wild conspiracy theories are abundant and promulgated. This kind of persecution (which includes death threats on Faucci, etc) was always something Americans were flabbergasted by in other countries.

Now, as with any third world country, we are wide open to these conspiracy theories, no matter how many have been proven untrue and only begun to further other things.

If you read the article, it will detail how this got started, more importantly all the players.

As usual you are getting way off track and wrestling with strawmen. This thread is about actual documents, procured by a left wing website The Intercept. The documents were read completely by an eminent scientist, Dr Ebright who is as apolitical as one can be. I have provided links to his comments after reading the documents which I advise you to read. This is not some whackjob conspiracy but in fact is based on government documents.

See post 100 for links to Dr Ebright's comments.

[Bucco]

Li-Meng Yan - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Meng_Yan)

She looks like a hack scientist. She was used for political ends and and very willing it looks like. She also seems to have little integrity and her scientific work has a very poor reputation.

She is a political hack, and most importantly has close ties to US political hacks and other conspiracy theories.

[Bucco]

THIS 1000 times.

I do not understand these folks. They refuse to accept reality even when it is proven over and over to be true.

They will spend their time trying so hard to promote fantasies, and attacking people on a personal basis with no basis. Everything to them is a “big lie”

Better wake up and face reality. This COVID battle was lost the minute the denials and lies were center stage.

[lkagele]

Li-Meng Yan - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Meng_Yan)

She looks like a hack scientist. She was used for political ends and and very willing it looks like. She also seems to have little integrity and her scientific work has a very poor reputation.

I'm finding it's more and more difficult to obtain reliable information from Widepedia, Snopes or any 'fact checking' organization. They all seem to be biased usually too far left but also a few too far to the right. I've found it helps to use multiple search engines. I use Google, Bing, Qwant and DuckDuckgo. Sometimes just the difference in 'hits' you get can be enlightening. When I use Qwant and Duck, I often find myself asking, why didn't Google show me this?

Try this: Dr. Li-Meng Yan • myMedicalFreedom.org (https://mymedicalfreedom.org/dr-li-meng-yan/)

Because of her extensive professional network and scientific evidence, Dr. Yan has the distinction of being the only Chinese insider in the west with firsthand knowledge about the true nature of the virus as well as the CCP’s deceptive methods used to disguise their international bioweapons research.

Since escaping from Hong Kong on April 28, 2021, she has been interviewed four times by the FBI, including an FBI virologist, and each time she has been deemed credible.

When she defected, she put her entire family still in China at risk. I think that also gives her some measure of credibility.

[Bucco]

As usual you are getting way off track and wrestling with strawmen. This thread is about actual documents, procured by a left wing website The Intercept. The documents were read completely by an eminent scientist, Dr Ebright who is as apolitical as one can be. I have provided links to his comments after reading the documents which I advise you to read. This is not some whackjob conspiracy but in fact is based on government documents.

See post 100 for links to Dr Ebright's comments.

I will repeat what I said more than once...

1. If Dr Faucci lies to Congress upgrade that charge to treason.

2. Having said that, I do not believe there is any charge that has not been leveled at this man in the last two years that has not been reviewed by pretty much all agencies, most have already been debunked, but they keep moving back with new variations.

3. I completely do not understand any of it. The man has served this country with honor. Never a problem, until he disagreed with an elected official, not a scientist, an elected official.

4. I hope you read the story I posted from the Times in post 107. I hope you are aware of the activities within our country in concert with Chinese activists . It is an oft repeated story and the surmises, and that is all they are at this point, not factual, point to another plot emend ting from maybe the same source.

I did not supply the link because it was very political, as the war against Faucci is. I will send it to you via PM with no comments and nor reason to reply.

[lkagele]

I do not understand these folks. They refuse to accept reality even when it is proven over and over to be true.

They will spend their time trying so hard to promote fantasies, and attacking people on a personal basis with no basis. Everything to them is a “big lie”

Better wake up and face reality. This COVID battle was lost the minute the denials and lies were center stage.

Whose reality? Yours? What's been proven? That vaccines work?

If you look at the actual evidence of what's going on, you'll conclude the vaccines are nothing more than an effective therapeutic. Vaccinated people are still getting the disease but their symptoms are generally mild. That's great news The bad news, however, is the vaccines have limited efficacy. They are not lasting more than six or eight months before people start getting infected again.

I still contend that our younger generations should not be getting the vaccines. There is little to no risk for them when they get the virus. And when the do, they develop natural immunity and natural immunity is infinitely better than the limited vaccine 'immunity'. IMO, that is the only way we'll achieve herd immunity and put this 'thank you very much China' disease in our rear view mirror.

I also ask myself why the CDC has no recommended course of treatment(s) when folks contract COVID. They know efficacy of the vaccination is limited and that people are going to contract the disease even after they've been vaccinated. Why aren't they telling us how to deal with the disease that we're probably going to get sooner or later? There are therapeutics out there that supposedly have excellent results. I'd like to see the CDC conduct legitimate studies on those to find out one way or the other.

Fauci's been caught in a lie. I think his credibility is suspect and he's deflecting the conversation in an attempt to avoid people seeing that. It's time we look to other sources for our information and demand accountability for the inaccurate advise we've been receiving to date.

[SkBlogW]

I will repeat what I said more than once...

1. If Dr Faucci lies to Congress upgrade that charge to treason.

2. Having said that, I do not believe there is any charge that has not been leveled at this man in the last two years that has not been reviewed by pretty much all agencies, most have already been debunked, but they keep moving back with new variations.

3. I completely do not understand any of it. The man has served this country with honor. Never a problem, until he disagreed with an elected official, not a scientist, an elected official. .

Look, I posted a thread about government documents, just revealed 2 days ago via FOIA. These are not fake documents. A very well respected scientist, Dr Ebright has read all of the documents, and has made some very well reasoned conclusions, one of which is that the documents show Fauci was not truthful when testifying before congress about gain of function funding by his agency. Make of that what you will. Dr Ebright is not an elected official, he is a scientist.

[JMintzer]

My own logic and common sense has guided me to relying on people who know more than I do about a thing, rather than relying on my own logic and common sense.

Sort of like when someone is dying of COVID-19 in the hospital and they pray to god and ask why they're on their deathbed when they believed and prayed every day and were devout and followed everything their religion told them to do.

And god says "I sent you scientists. You rejected them. I sent you a vaccine. You rejected it. That's why you're dying."

Actually, it's nothing like that...

[stanley]

Can't handle the TRUTH, can ya?
Pot...meet kettle

[stanley]

She is a political hack, and most importantly has close ties to US political hacks and other conspiracy theories.

Links?

[Bucco]

Links?

Will send it to you via PM. It identifies some by name which mods would frown on.

Will send it to you and you can delete or whatever...coins with no comments and none expected in return