Measles

[RICH1]

I'm in my 60s and remember having the measles inoculation many years ago, are we still protected from the Measles?
Evidently these Afghans are bringing in measles and other diseases and are free to enter towns near the Bases! I'm hoping to get a Doctor to respond but I'm sure some expert will tackle this question

[Koapaka]

I'm in my 60s and remember having the measles inoculation many years ago, are we still protected from the Measles?
Evidently these Afghans are bringing in measles and other diseases and are free to enter towns near the Bases! I'm hoping to get a Doctor to respond but I'm sure some expert will tackle this question

Not to worry, it seems to have disappeared all of a sudden like the normal flu did last year......from over1,000 cases the year before to 2 cases last year....url=https://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html]Measles Cases and Outbreaks | CDC[/url]

[Two Bills]

According to Dr. Google, the measles vaccination is mostly good for life.
Fort McCoy is nearly 1400 miles from TV.
Think it's fairly safe to go out in public:icon_wink:

[golfing eagles]

According to Dr. Google, the measles vaccination is mostly good for life.
Fort McCoy is nearly 1400 miles from TV.
Think it's fairly safe to go out in public:icon_wink:

Not quite that simple:

For Healthcare Professionals - Diagnosing and Treating Measles | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/measles/hcp/index.html#immunity)

[Dana1963]

I'm in my 60s and remember having the measles inoculation many years ago, are we still protected from the Measles?
Evidently these Afghans are bringing in measles and other diseases and are free to enter towns near the Bases! I'm hoping to get a Doctor to respond but I'm sure some expert will tackle this question
Don't worry only the people who refuse to inoculated their children may get it.
We can't save everyone all I know is my children and grandchildren received the MMR vaccine practical along with polio.

[golfing eagles]

Don't worry only the people who refuse to inoculated their children may get it.
We can't save everyone all I know is my children and grandchildren received the MMR vaccine practical along with polio.

So, the only way to contract rubeola is from your unvaccinated children? Hmmmmmm.....

Clearly not my understanding of virology and epidemiology.

[Dana1963]

So, the only way to contract rubeola is from your unvaccinated children? Hmmmmmm.....

Clearly not my understanding of virology and epidemiology.
My children and grandchildren have been inoculated for MMR. IF I have not been inoculated odds are I could get it. The disease is spread like Covid respiratory droplets.

[golfing eagles]

My children and grandchildren have been inoculated for MMR. IF I have not been inoculated odds are I could get it. The disease is spread like Covid respiratory droplets.

Are you asking me or telling me???:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

But FYI, prior to 1963 (when MMR became available), there were 4 million cases of measles/year. Now there are less than 1000.
Of course your grandchildren got vaccinated, it would be irresponsible of their parents to refuse it. However, there are other ways you can get measles, especially considering it is still common in other parts of the world. So be careful where you travel without getting re-vaccinated (unless you were born prior to 1957, in which case be VERY careful), or which foreign travelers you get close to. In either case, your risk of measles is extremely low, NOT "odds are I could get it"

[Byte1]

As a child, I had the measles, mumps, chicken pox, pneumonia and various other childhood illnesses. In those days, we did not get vaccinated for that stuff. I did get the polio vaccination via sugar cubes. So, I received my immunity by surviving the illnesses. Whether or not I still have the immunity, I guess an expert will tell. I have never had the flu as far as I can tell, but I also never get the flu vaccination. Maybe once I get it and (if) survive it, I might consider getting the flu shot in the future. I have been vaccinated for the Covid, but actually did it based on my spouse's medical condition. Even though I had the chicken pox, and I do not know whether the immunity would help dealing with shingles, I still got my shingles shot when I heard that a neighbor had a bad case of shingles. I have seen how it effects folks and how painful it is, so I was vaccinated.
Be careful about discussing "measles" or someone might get the idea of doing a "gain of function" study/experimentation on measles. :duck:

[golfing eagles]

As a child, I had the measles, mumps, chicken pox, pneumonia and various other childhood illnesses. In those days, we did not get vaccinated for that stuff. I did get the polio vaccination via sugar cubes. So, I received my immunity by surviving the illnesses. Whether or not I still have the immunity, I guess an expert will tell. I have never had the flu as far as I can tell, but I also never get the flu vaccination. Maybe once I get it and (if) survive it, I might consider getting the flu shot in the future. I have been vaccinated for the Covid, but actually did it based on my spouse's medical condition. Even though I had the chicken pox, and I do not know whether the immunity would help dealing with shingles, I still got my shingles shot when I heard that a neighbor had a bad case of shingles. I have seen how it effects folks and how painful it is, so I was vaccinated.
Be careful about discussing "measles" or someone might get the idea of doing a "gain of function" study/experimentation on measles. :duck:

If it ever became clinically relevant, you could get serum titers of antibodies to those illnesses. As far as shingles goes, having had chicken pox is a prerequisite for getting shingles, it in no way confers immunity against shingles, so you did the right thing by getting the vaccine

[graciegirl]

As a child, I had the measles, mumps, chicken pox, pneumonia and various other childhood illnesses. In those days, we did not get vaccinated for that stuff. I did get the polio vaccination via sugar cubes. So, I received my immunity by surviving the illnesses. Whether or not I still have the immunity, I guess an expert will tell. I have never had the flu as far as I can tell, but I also never get the flu vaccination. Maybe once I get it and (if) survive it, I might consider getting the flu shot in the future. I have been vaccinated for the Covid, but actually did it based on my spouse's medical condition. Even though I had the chicken pox, and I do not know whether the immunity would help dealing with shingles, I still got my shingles shot when I heard that a neighbor had a bad case of shingles. I have seen how it effects folks and how painful it is, so I was vaccinated.
Be careful about discussing "measles" or someone might get the idea of doing a "gain of function" study/experimentation on measles. :duck:

For many of us vaccines against Mumps, Measles, Whooping Cough were not yet available. In Columbus, Ohio in 1945 people were quarantined by the health department for these illnesses and there was a sign on your door. They did kill, and caused brain damage, and deafness. I am so grateful for all of the scientists who worked over all of the years to give us vaccines that can now save us from these and Shingles, and three kinds of pneumonia AND seasonal flu and now Covid. I will have my sleeve rolled up for the boosters for all if they are needed.

Salk and Sabin and Francis Crick are heroes to me like some have sports figures.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Byte1: the only way you CAN get shingles (herpes zoster), is if you first have chicken pox (varicella). If you've never had chicken pox, and don't get get chicken pox, you will never have shingles. Unfortunately, chicken pox is spread so easily that if you haven't been vaccinated for it, you have a very high likelihood or contracting it from someone else. Once you've had chicken pox, you are vulnerable to shingles for the rest of your life - UNLESS you vaccinate against it.

So it's good you did that.

I didn't have chicken pox when I was a kid, but I was vaccinated against it. My sister had chicken pox though. Having sores and blisters in her mouth and her "nethers" (imagine a 8-year-old kid needing to wipe themselves after going to the bathroom, but they have oozing blisters down there) was enough to convince my mom that a shot was probably the lesser inconvenience.

I did have an incredibly mild case of shingles many years ago, I thought it was ant bites. It was just a rash on my upper arm that itched and burned and went away on its own a couple of days later.

I got the Shingrix shot several years ago, as soon as I was old enough for insurance to cover the cost.

Got the MMR, the DPT (the older version of what is now known as Tdap), and polio vaccines all when I was a kid, and got some kind of booster of somethingorother in order to get into college. I got boosters on ALL the shots the CDC recommended for anyone who doesn't remember or know what they're immunized against, around the same time I got the Shingrix shot.

I get the flu shot every year now, didn't used to get it, but then I got the flu for the first time in my life, and decided a shot was the lesser of two evils.

If the CDC recommends an ADDITIONAL measles booster, I'll get that too. I don't enjoy getting shots, but I enjoy being sick even less than I enjoy getting shots. So - I get the shots.

[ThirdOfFive]

For many of us vaccines against Mumps, Measles, Whooping Cough were not yet available. In Columbus, Ohio in 1945 people were quarantined by the health department for these illnesses and there was a sign on your door. They did kill, and caused brain damage, and deafness. I am so grateful for all of the scientists who worked over all of the years to give us vaccines that can now save us from these and Shingles, and three kinds of pneumonia AND seasonal flu and now Covid. I will have my sleeve rolled up for the boosters for all if they are needed.

Salk and Sabin and Francis Crick are heroes to me like some have sports figures.
Back in the day, as a young child in Northern Minnesota in the 1950's, about the only vaccines at the time were for polio and smallpox. Whenever a kid in the community came down with measles, mumps or chicken pox, moms of kids who hadn't had the specific disease yet brought that kid over to be exposed, the logic being that it was better to have a sick kid when you were prepared for it than not. It was never a big deal; a few days off from school but that was about it--and for some reason if you had measles you had to stay in a darkened room, which was not fun. But nobody I knew ever died from those diseases or even got very sick.

[Byte1]

For many of us vaccines against Mumps, Measles, Whooping Cough were not yet available. In Columbus, Ohio in 1945 people were quarantined by the health department for these illnesses and there was a sign on your door. They did kill, and caused brain damage, and deafness. I am so grateful for all of the scientists who worked over all of the years to give us vaccines that can now save us from these and Shingles, and three kinds of pneumonia AND seasonal flu and now Covid. I will have my sleeve rolled up for the boosters for all if they are needed.

Salk and Sabin and Francis Crick are heroes to me like some have sports figures.

AHA! Now I have an excuse.........:clap2:

[John41]

I'm in my 60s and remember having the measles inoculation many years ago, are we still protected from the Measles?
Evidently these Afghans are bringing in measles and other diseases and are free to enter towns near the Bases! I'm hoping to get a Doctor to respond but I'm sure some expert will tackle this question

You are justified to be concerned not just with Afghans entering the US but also the 2 million illegals entering the US from the southern border being dumped in unknown locations all over the US. A man in Pinellas County, Florida in 2019 was hospitalized from measles acquired from someone who came back from overseas. Who knows how many persons he was in contact with. I will listen to our physician regarding a measles vaccination for us.
—————————-

Measles killed an estimated 207,500 people last year after a decade-long failure to reach optimal vaccination coverage, resulting in the highest number of cases for 23 years, the World Health Organization (WHO) and US Centers for Disease Control (CDC) said in a joint report on Thursday.
The death toll in 2019 was 50 per cent higher than a historic low reached in 2016, and all WHO regions saw an increase in cases, adding up to a global total of 869,770.

[Stu from NYC]

It is remarkable how many people on these boards seem to know more than very experienced physicians who are nice enough to share their knowledge with us.

[Retired gal]

As a child, I got measles, mumps, and chicken pox. I got a vaccine for pertussis (whooping cough) and polio, thank goodness.

About 10 years ago, I went to the doctor because I couldn’t shake this cough I had. Turns out my immunity to pertussis was either gone or very weak, as I had it! It now makes me wonder if my immunity to other diseases I had as a child are still strong.

[cbv0211]

I'm in my 60s and remember having the measles inoculation many years ago, are we still protected from the Measles?
Evidently these Afghans are bringing in measles and other diseases and are free to enter towns near the Bases! I'm hoping to get a Doctor to respond but I'm sure some expert will tackle this question

Fear mongering.

[coralway]

It is very comforting knowing I live in a Village full of medical experts.

[golfing eagles]

As a child, I got measles, mumps, and chicken pox. I got a vaccine for pertussis (whooping cough) and polio, thank goodness.

About 10 years ago, I went to the doctor because I couldn’t shake this cough I had. Turns out my immunity to pertussis was either gone or very weak, as I had it! It now makes me wonder if my immunity to other diseases I had as a child are still strong.

Two factors are at play:

1) In general, the more time that passes after a vaccine, the less effective it becomes.

2) The older we get, the less efficient our immune system becomes.

Pertussis vaccine is known to lose its effectiveness over time---this why the current recommendation is for grandparents that want to hold a newborn to get re-vaccinated with pertussis vaccine

[Michael G.]

Can you remember back in grade school getting shots for measles, mumps, chicken pox, pneumonia and polo etc?
Can you also recall there was no choice to get vaccinated like the covid19 shot today, everybody get the shot?

What changed??

[blueash]

My grandparents came to this country as unwashed immigrants, and the bigoted nativists even then screamed out that these dirty people were going to infect good Americans with diseases. Nothing has changed. The nativists are still using the same tropes and the same fear mongering against immigrants. We have had over 40 million immigrants alive in the US now, most entered outside the quota system.

Now tell me, how many infectious measles outbreaks (https://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html) have they caused, 40 million people. There was one in 2018 from a person from Ukraine. There was a large outbreak in an American born Orthodox Jewish NY community with a low vaccination rate and travel to Israel not immigrant related. Obviously this one could have been prevented by insisting on Americans being vaccinated before flying.

2017 an outbreak in US born Somalis in Minnesota, another vaccine refusing group.
2016 the only recent documented report in an immigrant group from the southern border.
There was a large outbreak in 2015 associated with visiting Disneyland in California. As the CDC reported:
Of the 159 measles cases, 153 (96%) were import-associated. Ten cases were classified as direct importations, (six among unvaccinated U.S. residents returning from overseas travel, of whom three were aged 6–11 months and age-eligible for vaccination before departure, and four among foreign visitors). Countries associated with direct importations included Azerbaijan, China, Germany, India, Indonesia, Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan, Qatar, Singapore, and United Arab Emirates (one import each).

The theme with measles is no different than that with Covid. While importation across our southern border is not zero, it is also not why we get outbreaks. Those who wish to blame our border policy lack evidence other than their confirmation bias layered on top of their nativist thinking.
And like Covid, get your shots as instructed by the experts at the CDC and you will overwhelmingly be protected.

What is the experience with measles in Texas, right at the epicenter of all those dirty unwashed illegals from countries with no shot requirement? The answer might be found on the Texas Department of health's website (https://www.dshs.texas.gov/IDCU/disease/measles/Measles.aspx) last updated March 2021

" Because measles is still endemic in many parts of the world and is highly contagious, measles can easily be re-introduced into Texas in unvaccinated communities. This was seen in 2013, when a person traveling to Asia returned with the measles and interacted with a vaccine-hesitant community. In a matter of weeks, 20 additional people were infected with measles. Overall in 2013, 27 cases were reported, the highest annual case count in over 20 years. In 2017, one case of measles was reported in Texas.
"

[Escape Artist]

I was told I wasn't immune to German Measles (rubella) and when I asked my doctor to vaccinate me for it she waved her hand and said don't worry about it.

[Blueblaze]

Can you remember back in grade school getting shots for measles, mumps, chicken pox, pneumonia and polo etc?
Can you also recall there was no choice to get vaccinated like the covid19 shot today, everybody get the shot?

What changed??

Well, I think one thing that changed was that those were ordinary vaccines, instead of experimental gene manipulation vaccines not yet approved by the FDA for children.

And those diseases primarily effected children, unlike COVID that primarily effects old people.

And they weren't required by everybody -- just children enrolling in school.

But there was one similarity -- measles has a death rate almost identical to Covid-19: 0.6%

Odd, isn't it. I wonder why we didn't panic and hide in our basements from the Measles back in the '50's. We not only didn't panic, but back before the vaccines, we used to have Measles parties in the summer so the kids would get it over with and not miss school! Now we prevent kids from going to school to protect them from a 0.6% risk (actually much less than that, in the case of Covid and kids)!

So I guess that's changed. We used to be a nation that won a world war, while fighting a flu pandemic that killed millions. Now we're a nation of panty-waists who put working people on the dole and run their employers out of business, to save them from a disease that mostly only kills retired people!

[thevillages2013]

I'm in my 60s and remember having the measles inoculation many years ago, are we still protected from the Measles?
Evidently these Afghans are bringing in measles and other diseases and are free to enter towns near the Bases! I'm hoping to get a Doctor to respond but I'm sure some expert will tackle this question
Don’t know, not a doctor just curious how that clothing drive is coming along?:popcorn:

[Billy1]

I remember back in the day.

[geobet]

Unvaccinated children have been riding the coattails of the vaccinated children for years. They are the ones at risk of getting not only measles but other diseases when they are brought into our country. There have been several measles and mumps outbreaks in the Northwest over the past few years thanks to anti-vaxer parents.

[asianthree]

Can you remember back in grade school getting shots for measles, mumps, chicken pox, pneumonia and polo etc?
Can you also recall there was no choice to get vaccinated like the covid19 shot today, everybody get the shot?

What changed??

Not everyone as a child went to doctors, and were vaccinated. I grew up with herbs, roots, Native American grandparents and a shaman.

[RoadToad]

Well, I think one thing that changed was that those were ordinary vaccines, instead of experimental gene manipulation vaccines not yet approved by the FDA for children.

And those diseases primarily effected children, unlike COVID that primarily effects old people.

And they weren't required by everybody -- just children enrolling in school.

But there was one similarity -- measles has a death rate almost identical to Covid-19: 0.6%

Odd, isn't it. I wonder why we didn't panic and hide in our basements from the Measles back in the '50's. We not only didn't panic, but back before the vaccines, we used to have Measles parties in the summer so the kids would get it over with and not miss school! Now we prevent kids from going to school to protect them from a 0.6% risk (actually much less than that, in the case of Covid and kids)!

So I guess that's changed. We used to be a nation that won a world war, while fighting a flu pandemic that killed millions. Now we're a nation of panty-waists who put working people on the dole and run their employers out of business, to save them from a disease that mostly only kills retired people!

You appear to be misinformed...or something else is on the agends..
No Gene manipulation is involved whatsoever.
Might want to give this a read if you are actually interested in the FACTS.
Myths and Facts about COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html)

:ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

[maggie1]

Are you asking me or telling me???:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

But FYI, prior to 1963 (when MMR became available), there were 4 million cases of measles/year. Now there are less than 1000.
Of course your grandchildren got vaccinated, it would be irresponsible of their parents to refuse it. However, there are other ways you can get measles, especially considering it is still common in other parts of the world. So be careful where you travel without getting re-vaccinated (unless you were born prior to 1957, in which case be VERY careful), or which foreign travelers you get close to. In either case, your risk of measles is extremely low, NOT "odds are I could get it"

I was born in 1942, and had mumps, measles, and chickenpox. From what I understand, I'm pretty much immune from any of the three after having built up antibodies that stay with me for the rest of my life. Unfortunately, the chickenpox virus brings with it the potential for contracting shingle, which I have also had (worst pain I've ever experienced) and have since received the vaccination for this as well. Had the polio vaccine when it became available, and completed the two shots of Pfizer, and look forward to getting the booster when it becomes available. Antivaxers are just gambling with the odds that they, or their children, won't develop these diseases and I'll never understand why!

[MidWestIA]

What about all the immigrants the liberals want to let flood in with NO VACCINATIONS or check at the border - some had TB

[RICH1]

Don’t know, not a doctor just curious how that clothing drive is coming along?:popcorn:
Not good, on the clothing drive... waiting for a Church to launch a drive for the people in LA.... evidently all the refugees receive brand new clothing and hygiene products.. Religious and cultural reasons....

[jswirs]

Well, I think one thing that changed was that those were ordinary vaccines, instead of experimental gene manipulation vaccines not yet approved by the FDA for children.

And those diseases primarily effected children, unlike COVID that primarily effects old people.

And they weren't required by everybody -- just children enrolling in school.

But there was one similarity -- measles has a death rate almost identical to Covid-19: 0.6%

Odd, isn't it. I wonder why we didn't panic and hide in our basements from the Measles back in the '50's. We not only didn't panic, but back before the vaccines, we used to have Measles parties in the summer so the kids would get it over with and not miss school! Now we prevent kids from going to school to protect them from a 0.6% risk (actually much less than that, in the case of Covid and kids)!

So I guess that's changed. We used to be a nation that won a world war, while fighting a flu pandemic that killed millions. Now we're a nation of panty-waists who put working people on the dole and run their employers out of business, to save them from a disease that mostly only kills retired people!
Well said, and, unfortunately, seems to be so true, and not just what you have stated, because some of what we have done in the world lately is nothing less than disgraceful, but that's another story. You echo my sentiments...exactly.

[MLuft]

I was immunized as a child; when I was trying to get pregnant my doctor tested me and my immunity was not good so I got another vaccine and had to wait to get pregnant. Your doctor can check if you’re still good to go.

[Luggage]

When you go to your doctor is definitely a good question to ask as they are the experts however I was looking up just last month about vaccinations in general from our earlier childhood years and there are quite a few that you should get boosters that I recommended Tdap is a series for for four specific diseases that we can catch in our old age as well as of course shingles, and the regular Chinese flu yearly but the first few I mentioned are extremely important as they do weekend as we age so of course please talk to your doctor

[MandoMan]

For many of us vaccines against Mumps, Measles, Whooping Cough were not yet available. In Columbus, Ohio in 1945 people were quarantined by the health department for these illnesses and there was a sign on your door. They did kill, and caused brain damage, and deafness. I am so grateful for all of the scientists who worked over all of the years to give us vaccines that can now save us from these and Shingles, and three kinds of pneumonia AND seasonal flu and now Covid. I will have my sleeve rolled up for the boosters for all if they are needed.

Salk and Sabin and Francis Crick are heroes to me like some have sports figures.
Before it was standard to give antibiotics for Strep Throat, many people who got that then got Scarlet Fever, which sometimes led to an infection of the heart that could kill or could damage one or more valves permanently. One of my aunts had to have a heart valve replacement forty years after Scarlet Fever damaged her heart. I remember one of my. Fourth grade friends having heart damage because of it in 1964.

Last summer I talked with my 92 year old dad about how scary polio was for parents when I was little and how liberating it was when we kids were able to get vaccinated. It was like emerging from under an umbrella of fear. What I remember is fighting and crying over getting a shot, and how happy I was when the next polio vaccine came on a delicious sugar cube.

Some of you can remember the kind of smallpox vaccination where the doctor broke off the end of a tiny glass capillary tube and stuck the sharp end a dozen times or more into the kid’s arm in a half-inch circle. I remember my pediatrician telling me it would be like a “Little Indian Dance.” I disagreed. Violently. Fortunately I am braver now. I’ll bet plenty of you still have a smallpox vaccination scar. Later, there was a new version that was just an injection and didn’t leave a scar. I remember not being able to touch it until the scab fell off on its own, which took several weeks.

[Luggage]

The big difference is in the infection rate and the method of infection between measles and covid. Covid is much more virulent. Measles patient could be treated at home. Not covid . Covid patient may need lung machines . Not measles . The rate of death is only equal to measles because we have much better care today than 50 years ago. Both are highly preventable with proper vaccination and social distancing. Neither a measles or a covid patient would I kiss on the lips with a tongue insertion.






Well, I think one thing that changed was that those were ordinary vaccines, instead of experimental gene manipulation vaccines not yet approved by the FDA for children.

And those diseases primarily effected children, unlike COVID that primarily effects old people.

And they weren't required by everybody -- just children enrolling in school.

But there was one similarity -- measles has a death rate almost identical to Covid-19: 0.6%

Odd, isn't it. I wonder why we didn't panic and hide in our basements from the Measles back in the '50's. We not only didn't panic, but back before the vaccines, we used to have Measles parties in the summer so the kids would get it over with and not miss school! Now we prevent kids from going to school to protect them from a 0.6% risk (actually much less than that, in the case of Covid and kids)!

So I guess that's changed. We used to be a nation that won a world war, while fighting a flu pandemic that killed millions. Now we're a nation of panty-waists who put working people on the dole and run their employers out of business, to save them from a disease that mostly only kills retired people!

[golfing eagles]

When you go to your doctor is definitely a good question to ask as they are the experts however I was looking up just last month about vaccinations in general from our earlier childhood years and there are quite a few that you should get boosters that I recommended Tdap is a series for for four specific diseases that we can catch in our old age as well as of course shingles, and the regular Chinese flu yearly but the first few I mentioned are extremely important as they do weekend as we age so of course please talk to your doctor

Just to clarify a bit. Tdap protects against THREE diseases---tetanus, diphtheria and pertussis. Plain tetanus is recommended as a "booster" every 10 years, pertussis in some situations, and we rarely give diphtheria vaccine boosters. You cannot "catch" shingles, it is a reactivation of the varicella (chicken pox) virus from childhood that stayed dormant in the dorsal root ganglia. And the "regular flu" is not necessarily Chinese. ( and that's weaken, not weekend). End of clarification.

[GRACEALLEMAN]

According to Dr. Google, the measles vaccination is mostly good for life.
Fort McCoy is nearly 1400 miles from TV.
Think it's fairly safe to go out in public:icon_wink:

Excuse me but how far away was the Chinese virus virus? Didn't come over this way?? Not a very good answer you did

[Jerseyborn]

I'm in my 60s and remember having the measles inoculation many years ago, are we still protected from the Measles?
Evidently these Afghans are bringing in measles and other diseases and are free to enter towns near the Bases! I'm hoping to get a Doctor to respond but I'm sure some expert will tackle this question

You can get a blood test to see if you still have immunity

[Two Bills]

Excuse me but how far away was the Chinese virus virus? Didn't come over this way?? Not a very good answer you did

The subject is Measles Measles, not the virus virus.

[golfing eagles]

The big difference is in the infection rate and the method of infection between measles and covid. Covid is much more virulent. Measles patient could be treated at home. Not covid . Covid patient may need lung machines . Not measles . The rate of death is only equal to measles because we have much better care today than 50 years ago. Both are highly preventable with proper vaccination and social distancing. Neither a measles or a covid patient would I kiss on the lips with a tongue insertion.

Not much of that is accurate either.

[Gettingoutofdodge]

Have your Dr. do an IGG blood work to check for the antibodies for the measles. The results will tell you if you still have the antibodies and how much of them. I did it a few years ago for measles, mumps, rubella and chicken pox. All were still high. Two weeks ago I had my antibodies checked for Covid. I have the Moderna vaccine 7 months ago. My antibodies were still high. The Dr. said to check every three months and if the level goes down, then I should take the booster.

[DonnaNi4os]

I'm in my 60s and remember having the measles inoculation many years ago, are we still protected from the Measles?
Evidently these Afghans are bringing in measles and other diseases and are free to enter towns near the Bases! I'm hoping to get a Doctor to respond but I'm sure some expert will tackle this question

Most of us had measles and chicken pox as a child, long before the vaccine was available. That provided you with a pretty strong immunity, likely life long. Most children are vaccinated with MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) as a condition to enter school. So for the most part, those at risk of contracting the very contagious measles are very young children. That’s a scary thought. Anyone entering the country from another may not be vaccinated for the basics and I can only presume that there will be an all out effort to get those entering from Afghanistan vaccinated quickly.

[Aces4]

According to Dr. Google, the measles vaccination is mostly good for life.
Fort McCoy is nearly 1400 miles from TV.
Think it's fairly safe to go out in public:icon_wink:


:ohdear: Sure, yeah, uh huh, because we all know that people from Wisconsin, Minnesota and Iowa don’t travel to The Villages in the winter.

I and my siblings had the measles when we were young and it was miserable. Headache, aches, rash that looked like a red blanket an our bodies and we were pretty uncomfortable until it passed. I don’t want that again but maybe we still have antibodies loaded in us.

[jammaiora]

What's your moniker, "Rich the Racist"! If I were you. I would worry more about the people in Florida who are not vaccinated and/or are anti-maskers.

[golfing eagles]

Have your Dr. do an IGG blood work to check for the antibodies for the measles. The results will tell you if you still have the antibodies and how much of them. I did it a few years ago for measles, mumps, rubella and chicken pox. All were still high. Two weeks ago I had my antibodies checked for Covid. I have the Moderna vaccine 7 months ago. My antibodies were still high. The Dr. said to check every three months and if the level goes down, then I should take the booster.

Except........There are multiple antibodies involved in COVID immunity, and we still don't know which ones they are. The antibody test is only for one of them, and that one may not even confer immunity. In other words, neither you nor your doctor should put too much faith in the results of the current antibody test.

[Dot Rheinhardt]

When my husband was in the army, my son and some of the army kids got the measles. One mother did not as her kid didn't either. Later she was pregnant and got the measles. Her baby was born without arms or legs. I had measles in college and so did my daughter. Now it is not prevalent in the US, but I wonder about immigrants bringing it in if they haven't been vaccinated.

[blueash]

Except........There are multiple antibodies involved in COVID immunity, and we still don't know which ones they are. The antibody test is only for one of them, and that one may not even confer immunity. In other words, neither you nor your doctor should put too much faith in the results of the current antibody test.

100% agree. Get the booster when the booster is recommended. By the way, do you expect your insurance to pay for your four times a year antibody test? There is no established medical reason to be doing it. You might ask your doctor what evidence or recommendation he or she used in developing this suggestion.

From the CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/resources/antibody-tests-guidelines.html)
"Antibody testing is not currently recommended to assess for immunity to COVID-19 following COVID-19 vaccination"

From Quest (https://questdirect.questdiagnostics.com/products/covid-19-antibody-test/b580e541-78a5-48a6-b17b-7bad949dcb57)
"Antibody testing for the purposes of vaccine decision making is not currently recommended by the CDC."
The shot costs the government or your insurance about $20. TheQuest charge (https://questdirect.questdiagnostics.com/products/covid-19-antibody-test/b580e541-78a5-48a6-b17b-7bad949dcb57) for antibody testing is $69 dollars.

[Skeety]

Why don't you get the facts instead of spouting off half assed ignorance? 🙄🙄

[terrild53]

I'm in my 60s and remember having the measles inoculation many years ago, are we still protected from the Measles?
Evidently these Afghans are bringing in measles and other diseases and are free to enter towns near the Bases! I'm hoping to get a Doctor to respond but I'm sure some expert will tackle this question

People who previously had measles have antibodies that protect them the rest of their lives. Those who are over 50 & who were vaccinated (had the entire series) typically have sufficient antibodies to get them through to adulthood and probably to old age. However, lots of college kids get measles because, according to research, their antibody levels wane so it is recommended that kids get a booster at 18. You can get a measles titer drawn to check your level and it will tell you whether you need a booster or not. Ask your doctor!

[lstevenson1470]

I'm in my 60s and remember having the measles inoculation many years ago, are we still protected from the Measles?
Evidently these Afghans are bringing in measles and other diseases and are free to enter towns near the Bases! I'm hoping to get a Doctor to respond but I'm sure some expert will tackle this question

Please, please, PLEASE! Let's not spread fear of these poor people who have lost EVERYTHING. They came here with nothing but the clothes on their backs, to escape a government who has killed ther family members and friends because they helped US in the war effort.

Here is information from the CDC about vaccinations required for immigration:

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/pdf/Vaccine-TI-Civil-Surgeons-H.pdf

[Fltpkr]

Is the OP really serious? Sorry, but I just don’t get this kind of a post. Is it really to get an answer to the long term effectiveness of measles vaccination or to provoke nasty conversations that tend to draw out the worst in people. These Afghans? Many of these people have put their lives and families at risk to help us, and they have had to pick-up and leave, likely forever, their homes and the ancestral homes of their mothers and fathers and grandparents, also their neighbors and friends, and we are concerned about possible measles?

[Aces4]

Why don't you get the facts instead of spouting off half assed ignorance? 🙄🙄

Do you have any idea to whom you’re speaking? If so, use the QUOTE button.

[Aces4]

Is the OP really serious? Sorry, but I just don’t get this kind of a post. Is it really to get an answer to the long term effectiveness of measles vaccination or to provoke nasty conversations that tend to draw out the worst in people. These Afghans? Many of these people have put their lives and families at risk to help us, and they have had to pick-up and leave, likely forever, their homes and the ancestral homes of their mothers and fathers and grandparents, also their neighbors and friends, and we are concerned about possible measles?

Lol, it was reported that only about 8000-9000 Afghans should have been evacuated and the rest rode their coattails.

[Two Bills]

:ohdear: Sure, yeah, uh huh, because we all know that people from Wisconsin, Minnesota and Iowa don’t travel to The Villages in the winter.

I and my siblings had the measles when we were young and it was miserable. Headache, aches, rash that looked like a red blanket an our bodies and we were pretty uncomfortable until it passed. I don’t want that again but maybe we still have antibodies loaded in us.

With the majority of Americans vaccinated or had the measles, the risk of an epidemic is about zero.
This is just fear mongering, and giving some people a political platform to bang their anti-whatever drums.
Get real!

[blueash]

Before it was standard to give antibiotics for Strep Throat, many people who got that then got Scarlet Fever, which sometimes led to an infection of the heart that could kill or could damage one or more valves permanently. One of my aunts had to have a heart valve replacement forty years after Scarlet Fever damaged her heart. I remember one of my. Fourth grade friends having heart damage because of it in 1964.

Last summer I talked with my 92 year old dad about how scary polio was for parents when I was little and how liberating it was when we kids were able to get vaccinated. It was like emerging from under an umbrella of fear. What I remember is fighting and crying over getting a shot, and how happy I was when the next polio vaccine came on a delicious sugar cube.
.

I suppose I am nit-picking a little, even if you don't have lice... but that's not how strep works. Strep includes a large number of different strains, like Covid does. Some of those strains not only cause sore throats but also produce a toxin that causes the typical rash and strawberry tongue of scarlet fever. Some strep strains cause sore throats and do not produce the toxin.
Those strains which make the toxin are not more likely to lead to heart complications [rheumatic heart disease] than those that do not produce the toxin. Only about a dozen strains of the over 200 strep variants produce almost all the cases of rheumatic fever. Having strep throat from one of these strains does not mean you will get the complication. The others simply are not rheumatogenic.

Your explanation of the heart disease is wrong.
The strep bacteria does not infect the heart. Rather the body produces antibodies to fight off the strep throat infection. In rare cases these antibodies errantly also attack the heart valves. So it is your own immune system that gives you the complication.

The events you describe of a person having a strep infection then developing heart disease are accurate. This is one of the reasons why strep throat is treated with antibiotics, to prevent heart and other rare complications. Viral sore throats should not be treated with antibiotics.

History details. The injection for polio was available beginning in 1955 and the oral vaccine in 1962. The unapproved experimental injection was tested on school children in the largest such study ever done, with some media warning parents that the shot was dangerous and could kill your kids. One batch in fact was errantly manufactured (https://www.fastcompany.com/90622806/how-u-s-schools-proved-jonas-salks-polio-vaccine-was-safe) and contained live virus and killed. But Americans understood that the benefit outweighed the risk not only for their own kids but as a community health measure to stop disease spread. Pop culture figures helped by showing themselves being vaccinated, publicly getting a shot, not secretly. Polio at its worst was killing a few thousand a year

Done nit picking.

[Retired gal]

Two factors are at play:

1) In general, the more time that passes after a vaccine, the less effective it becomes.

2) The older we get, the less efficient our immune system becomes.

Pertussis vaccine is known to lose its effectiveness over time---this why the current recommendation is for grandparents that want to hold a newborn to get re-vaccinated with pertussis vaccine

I always appreciate your knowledge and insight. Thanks!

[blueash]

People who previously had measles have antibodies that protect them the rest of their lives. Those who are over 50 & who were vaccinated (had the entire series) typically have sufficient antibodies to get them through to adulthood and probably to old age. However, lots of college kids get measles because, according to research, their antibody levels wane so it is recommended that kids get a booster at 18. You can get a measles titer drawn to check your level and it will tell you whether you need a booster or not. Ask your doctor!

This is incorrect. Really I hope you're just confused but this is so wrong. For starters the measles shot as a stand alone was only approved in 1963 so very few people born before 1960 got that shot. The combination MMR was only released in 1971. I don't know what you mean by the "entire series" as there has not been a series ever recommended. Just a single booster was recommended in 1989 for those who got the earlier shots. If you were born in the 40's or the 50's you might have never had a measles shot as it was not required for school until into the 70's.

Since the introduction of universal MMR vaccination in the US, measles has gone to nearly zero cases per year except for outbreaks in unvaccinated pockets. There is no truth whatsoever to your claim that there is a problem with college age students. There is no truth that there is a recommendation for a booster at age 18.

[dlsd58]

make sure you have the shingrx vaccine (shingles) which is caused from the measles virus...

[Jean G]

There is that and much more streaming across our Southern Boarder in much bigger numbers daily.

[golfing eagles]

make sure you have the shingrx vaccine (shingles) which is caused from the measles virus...

That statement needs some correction:

FYI, shingles is caused by the re-activation of the varicella virus (chicken pox) , which stays dormant in the dorsal root ganglia of your spinal cord after acute infection. It then, usually after advancing in years, or stressed by a major illness or trauma, crawls down a single dermatome of a spinal or cranial nerve and causes the distinctive rash of shingles. And that's why you should get a SHINGRIX vaccine. Nothing whatsoever to do with measles

[blueash]

When my husband was in the army, my son and some of the army kids got the measles. One mother did not as her kid didn't either. Later she was pregnant and got the measles. Her baby was born without arms or legs. I had measles in college and so did my daughter. Now it is not prevalent in the US, but I wonder about immigrants bringing it in if they haven't been vaccinated.

Regular measles, rubeola, the kind we are talking about here does NOT cause birth defects but is in itself a significant illness in those who become infected.

There is an entirely different illness, rubella, AKA German measles that is a trivial illness in those who catch it. The only concern with rubella is the damage it can cause to the fetus. Rubella is the R in MMR. Rubella does not cause children to be born without arms or legs. So whatever illness your army friend had, it was not measles or german measles that led to this sad outcome. If this child was born in 1960-61 and the mother was in Europe, being the military, she may have been given Thalidomide which did cause this outcome.

[golfing eagles]

Regular measles, rubeola, the kind we are talking about here does NOT cause birth defects but is in itself a significant illness in those who become infected.

There is an entirely different illness, rubella, AKA German measles that is a trivial illness in those who catch it. The only concern with rubella is the damage it can cause to the fetus. Rubella is the R in MMR. Rubella does not cause children to be born without arms or legs. So whatever illness your army friend had, it was not measles or german measles that led to this sad outcome. If this child was born in 1960-61 and the mother was in Europe, being the military, she may have been given Thalidomide which did cause this outcome.

Agree. Sounds more like the phocomelia caused by Thalidomide.

[DaveGodin]

I understand they are being screened for and given required vaccinations, including for COVID. These people are not just being dumped out on the streets.

[DaveGodin]

They are being screened for and given required vaccinations, including for COVID. There are several news articles about this. These people are not just being dumped out on the streets.

[jimjamuser]

Not to worry, it seems to have disappeared all of a sudden like the normal flu did last year......from over1,000 cases the year before to 2 cases last year....url=https://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html]Measles Cases and Outbreaks | CDC[/url]
WELL, actually as far as RISKS go - it is just the OPPOSITE! Flu is REPORTED / PREDICTED to INCREASE this winter - due to society and schools OPENING up more THIS year than last. Last year more people tended to quarantine, traveled less, and wear masks. In general, they felt more risks and acted accordingly.
.........I am NOT sure about measles, but I would assume an increase this winter.
.........If post #2 was correct about 1,000 deaths per year from measles, that would be insignificant compared to CV deaths.
..........However, the Afghanistan population infusion could increase that unless at the US bases, they got shots? Somehow, I doubt that - probably due to religious reasons.
I consider that my information about predicted increased FLU - is solid information from respected TV news hosts and a respected newspaper.
........ These dashed ones are my OWN conjecture and opinions which I give over to the Forum for further discussion by the TV Land experts.....sincerely.
........Incidentally, the only LINKS that I could be sure that are more than opinion or worse - dark conspiracies - are CUFFLINKS ! I can't live my life going around memorizing LINKS that, anyway, would be shot down by 60% of posters as liberal, commie TV channels and newspapers. Sorry!

[jimjamuser]

As a child, I had the measles, mumps, chicken pox, pneumonia and various other childhood illnesses. In those days, we did not get vaccinated for that stuff. I did get the polio vaccination via sugar cubes. So, I received my immunity by surviving the illnesses. Whether or not I still have the immunity, I guess an expert will tell. I have never had the flu as far as I can tell, but I also never get the flu vaccination. Maybe once I get it and (if) survive it, I might consider getting the flu shot in the future. I have been vaccinated for the Covid, but actually did it based on my spouse's medical condition. Even though I had the chicken pox, and I do not know whether the immunity would help dealing with shingles, I still got my shingles shot when I heard that a neighbor had a bad case of shingles. I have seen how it effects folks and how painful it is, so I was vaccinated.
Be careful about discussing "measles" or someone might get the idea of doing a "gain of function" study/experimentation on measles. :duck:
Personally, I am MORE afraid of getting CV than shingles, because I think (?) that shingles, while painful, IS not A KILLER. IMO.

[golfing eagles]

Personally, I am MORE afraid of getting CV than shingles, because I think (?) that shingles, while painful, IS not A KILLER. IMO.

Not unless you're immunocompromised and get disseminated Zoster, in which case you are dead.

[dougawhite]

I’ll bet plenty of you still have a smallpox vaccination scar. Later, there was a new version that was just an injection and didn’t leave a scar. I remember not being able to touch it until the scab fell off on its own, which took several weeks.

As I understand it the scar was created on purpose so that everyone could tell who was or was not vaccinated.

[blueash]

As I understand it the scar was created on purpose so that everyone could tell who was or was not vaccinated.

Nope, you got that wrong

[Aces4]

With the majority of Americans vaccinated or had the measles, the risk of an epidemic is about zero.
This is just fear mongering, and giving some people a political platform to bang their anti-whatever drums.
Get real!

The majority isn’t everyone, get realer. Duh!

Btw, political discussions or remarks aren’t permitted here.

[jimjamuser]

Can you remember back in grade school getting shots for measles, mumps, chicken pox, pneumonia and polo etc?
Can you also recall there was no choice to get vaccinated like the covid19 shot today, everybody get the shot?

What changed??
I am sure that it is well known. But, it is CAUSED by propaganda from abroad and internal regurgitation of that AFOREMENTIONED propaganda. And I am talking about the non-mainstream media.

[Blueblaze]

The big difference is in the infection rate and the method of infection between measles and covid. Covid is much more virulent. Measles patient could be treated at home. Not covid . Covid patient may need lung machines . Not measles . The rate of death is only equal to measles because we have much better care today than 50 years ago. Both are highly preventable with proper vaccination and social distancing. Neither a measles or a covid patient would I kiss on the lips with a tongue insertion.

Really? When I got Covid, I treated myself at home. I took antihistamines and aspirin and in about three days I was good as new -- just like the rest of the 99.6% of people who survive it.

Measles is actually MORE virulent than Covid, among people who have no natural immunity. It's estimated that nearly 90% of the indigenous population of America was wiped out by Measles from contact with the early Spanish explorers, before North America was even colonized.

The weirdest thing about this pandemic is that almost nobody seems to know any actual victims personally. I was born in the middle of a polio pandemic. My parents had friends who lost children. I went to school with crippled survivors. But even though I live in a community of old people at high risk from Covid, two years into this pandemic, I still don't personally know a single victim. However, I do have a neighbor who had a stroke the day after she got her Covid shot. I don't think that counts, though.

[JSR22]

Really? When I got Covid, I treated myself at home. I took antihistamines and aspirin and in about three days I was good as new -- just like the rest of the 99.6% of people who survive it.

Measles is actually MORE virulent than Covid, among people who have no natural immunity. It's estimated that nearly 90% of the indigenous population of America was wiped out by Measles from contact with the early Spanish explorers, before North America was even colonized.

The weirdest thing about this pandemic is that almost nobody seems to know any actual victims personally. I was born in the middle of a polio pandemic. My parents had friends who lost children. I went to school with crippled survivors. But even though I live in a community of old people at high risk from Covid, two years into this pandemic, I still don't personally know a single victim. However, I do have a neighbor who had a stroke the day after she got her Covid shot. I don't think that counts, though.

Iknow dozens of people who had COVID including 6 on my street!

[jimjamuser]

Well, I think one thing that changed was that those were ordinary vaccines, instead of experimental gene manipulation vaccines not yet approved by the FDA for children.

And those diseases primarily effected children, unlike COVID that primarily effects old people.

And they weren't required by everybody -- just children enrolling in school.

But there was one similarity -- measles has a death rate almost identical to Covid-19: 0.6%

Odd, isn't it. I wonder why we didn't panic and hide in our basements from the Measles back in the '50's. We not only didn't panic, but back before the vaccines, we used to have Measles parties in the summer so the kids would get it over with and not miss school! Now we prevent kids from going to school to protect them from a 0.6% risk (actually much less than that, in the case of Covid and kids)!

So I guess that's changed. We used to be a nation that won a world war, while fighting a flu pandemic that killed millions. Now we're a nation of panty-waists who put working people on the dole and run their employers out of business, to save them from a disease that mostly only kills retired people!
Well, I don't know about panty-waists (that does NOT seem very fashionable) - but during WW1 MANY G.I.s DIED from the, so-called, Spanish Flu while on ships being transported to Europe. I believe that the Spanish Flu was a misnomer because it REALLY started in KANSAS. And I may be UNLINKED in my historical knowledge, but supposedly, a US President (maybe (?) Woodrow Wilson set up the FLU's name to change from Kansas to Spanish.
At least, today we do NOT want to change the name of the CV to something from Europe. We have "come a long way, baby".

[jimjamuser]

Unvaccinated children have been riding the coattails of the vaccinated children for years. They are the ones at risk of getting not only measles but other diseases when they are brought into our country. There have been several measles and mumps outbreaks in the Northwest over the past few years thanks to anti-vaxer parents.
Good post. That is putting the blame where it rightfully belongs. And why does government NOT live up to its main reason for existence - to protect and defend its citizens - from all enemies, from without and from within? Public Health IS responsible for defending US citizens against our invisible germ-type enemies.

[jimjamuser]

Most of us had measles and chicken pox as a child, long before the vaccine was available. That provided you with a pretty strong immunity, likely life long. Most children are vaccinated with MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) as a condition to enter school. So for the most part, those at risk of contracting the very contagious measles are very young children. That’s a scary thought. Anyone entering the country from another may not be vaccinated for the basics and I can only presume that there will be an all out effort to get those entering from Afghanistan vaccinated quickly.
Presume, but verify.

[CFrance]

Iknow dozens of people who had COVID including 6 on my street!
So do I. Several on our street and more that I know personally. One long-hauler as well.

[Two Bills]

The majority isn’t everyone, get realer. Duh!

Btw, political discussions or remarks aren’t permitted here.

Wow!
I learn something every day!:icon_wink:

[golfing eagles]

Wow!
I learn something every day!:icon_wink:

And I bet you thought Captain Obvious was just a fictional character :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[jimjamuser]

Is the OP really serious? Sorry, but I just don’t get this kind of a post. Is it really to get an answer to the long term effectiveness of measles vaccination or to provoke nasty conversations that tend to draw out the worst in people. These Afghans? Many of these people have put their lives and families at risk to help us, and they have had to pick-up and leave, likely forever, their homes and the ancestral homes of their mothers and fathers and grandparents, also their neighbors and friends, and we are concerned about possible measles?
A military principle.......trust but verify! I have no problem with any race, creed, or color. I just would rather there be less immigration (of ANY kind) into the US because of the US producing MORE than its share of pollution and therefore global warming. Would any TV Lander with a gasoline golf car be willing to switch to an electric golf car in order to let in one or two immigrants? I did NOT see MANY hands go up. And what about all-electric lawnmowers in TV Land?
Did Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, Russia, France and etc take THEIR fair share of immigrants?
I DO worry about MEASLES that is brought to the US by legal and illegal immigrants.
But, I worry MORE about the years after they come here and their future pollution when they start driving and pushing their gasoline lawnmowers.
Measles can be dealt with by Public Health Doctors and staff. There is NO Doctor that can cure you after you drown from a Hurricane or die in a fire in a western forest.
Yes, measle prevention and treatment IS important. My question is if it is far overshadowed by other problems? Yes, MORE unvaccinated people will bring with them MORE MEASLES and other UNSEEN problems!

[Bogie Shooter]

I'm in my 60s and remember having the measles inoculation many years ago, are we still protected from the Measles?
Evidently these Afghans are bringing in measles and other diseases and are free to enter towns near the Bases! I'm hoping to get a Doctor to respond but I'm sure some expert will tackle this question

Fear mongering.

I agree!
“Evidently”, what the h$## does that mean? A best guess or straight from a talking head?

[macawlaw]

I'm in my 60s and remember having the measles inoculation many years ago, are we still protected from the Measles?
Evidently these Afghans are bringing in measles and other diseases and are free to enter towns near the Bases! I'm hoping to get a Doctor to respond but I'm sure some expert will tackle this question

It depends. There was a period in the late 50s/early 60s that the vaccine was not as effective and there were breakthrough cases. I know. I was one of them. There were enough cases to make it into a news magazine, as I remember reading about it while I was in bed.

[Bogie Shooter]

What about all the immigrants the liberals want to let flood in with NO VACCINATIONS or check at the border - some had TB

Yea, those darn liberals……….
Had you Covid vaccine yet?

[Bogie Shooter]

Why don't you get the facts instead of spouting off half assed ignorance? 🙄🙄

Oh my god there are so many,which one are you referring to?

[Bogie Shooter]

Lol, it was reported that only about 8000-9000 Afghans should have been evacuated and the rest rode their coattails.

Reported? By whom?

[Bogie Shooter]

There is that and much more streaming across our Southern Boarder in much bigger numbers daily.

That? What?

[DonnaNi4os]

That statement needs some correction:

FYI, shingles is caused by the re-activation of the varicella virus (chicken pox) , which stays dormant in the dorsal root ganglia of your spinal cord after acute infection. It then, usually after advancing in years, or stressed by a major illness or trauma, crawls down a single dermatome of a spinal or cranial nerve and causes the distinctive rash of shingles. And that's why you should get a SHINGRIX vaccine. Nothing whatsoever to do with measles

make sure you have the shingrx vaccine (shingles) which is caused from the measles virus...


You can only get shingles if you have had chicken pox. It lives dormant in your body. Shingles has nothing whatsoever to do with measles!

[Bogie Shooter]

A military principle.......trust but verify! I have no problem with any race, creed, or color. I just would rather there be less immigration (of ANY kind) into the US because of the US producing MORE than its share of pollution and therefore global warming. Would any TV Lander with a gasoline golf car be willing to switch to an electric golf car in order to let in one or two immigrants? I did NOT see MANY hands go up. And what about all-electric lawnmowers in TV Land?
Did Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, Russia, France and etc take THEIR fair share of immigrants?
I DO worry about MEASLES that is brought to the US by legal and illegal immigrants.
But, I worry MORE about the years after they come here and their future pollution when they start driving and pushing their gasoline lawnmowers.
Measles can be dealt with by Public Health Doctors and staff. There is NO Doctor that can cure you after you drown from a Hurricane or die in a fire in a western forest.
Yes, measle prevention and treatment IS important. My question is if it is far overshadowed by other problems? Yes, MORE unvaccinated people will bring with them MORE MEASLES and other UNSEEN problems!

You must really like the latest Texas abortion law. Far less people using gasoline lawn mowers.:sad:

[DonnaNi4os]

DougWhite the scar was the result of the way it was administered. I received mine in my upper thigh, my mom said the physician told her that one day I might want to wear a strapless dress and he didn’t want the scar to show. I used to administer small pox vaccines back when you opened a vial, applied it to the skin and then pricked the area with a tiny needle, several times. That is why the result was a scar that resembled a scar left by small pox. It wasn’t meant to be a sign to prove vaccination.

[jimjamuser]

Not unless you're immunocompromised and get disseminated Zoster, in which case you are dead.
Thank you, I will be sure to stay away from Zoster, either disseminated or his sister - Undisseminated.

[golfing eagles]

You can only get shingles if you have had chicken pox. It lives dormant in your body. Shingles has nothing whatsoever to do with measles!

I previously posted:

"Originally Posted by golfing eagles View Post

FYI, shingles is caused by the re-activation of the varicella virus (chicken pox) , which stays dormant in the dorsal root ganglia of your spinal cord after acute infection. It then, usually after advancing in years, or stressed by a major illness or trauma, crawls down a single dermatome of a spinal or cranial nerve and causes the distinctive rash of shingles. And that's why you should get a SHINGRIX vaccine. Nothing whatsoever to do with measles"

Was I not clear enough???????

[jimjamuser]

Really? When I got Covid, I treated myself at home. I took antihistamines and aspirin and in about three days I was good as new -- just like the rest of the 99.6% of people who survive it.

Measles is actually MORE virulent than Covid, among people who have no natural immunity. It's estimated that nearly 90% of the indigenous population of America was wiped out by Measles from contact with the early Spanish explorers, before North America was even colonized.

The weirdest thing about this pandemic is that almost nobody seems to know any actual victims personally. I was born in the middle of a polio pandemic. My parents had friends who lost children. I went to school with crippled survivors. But even though I live in a community of old people at high risk from Covid, two years into this pandemic, I still don't personally know a single victim. However, I do have a neighbor who had a stroke the day after she got her Covid shot. I don't think that counts, though.
IF, IF, and IF, "nobody seems to know any actual victims personally" (of the Pandemic).......then, that monoclonal antibody treatment center at the Brownwood square MUST be vacant and gathering dust from NO patients.

[jimjamuser]

You must really like the latest Texas abortion law. Far less people using gasoline lawn mowers.:sad:
I DO NOT agree with the 1st sentence in your post. I do agree with the math (numbers) conclusion of your 2nd sentence. Tax laws and credits COULD HAVE BEEN (and were not) initiated in 1970 or earlier to achieve the conclusion of your 2nd sentence. Then, your 1st sentence could today be (as it should be) an individual woman's decision.

[Blueblaze]

IF, IF, and IF, "nobody seems to know any actual victims personally" (of the Pandemic).......then, that monoclonal antibody treatment center at the Brownwood square MUST be vacant and gathering dust from NO patients.

There's a 99.6% difference between "patient" and "victim". Nobody ever said their aren't any patients -- I was one myself. I merely noted how strange it is that we're two years into this "deadly" pandemic, and most people don't know anybody it's killed.

[Aces4]

Reported? By whom?

Try Bloomberg, September 23rd, 2021, author Nick Wadhams. It’s disturbing and aggravating and there are more articles. Perhaps if one did some online research many truths would be uncovered.

[Alana33]

I'm in my 60s and remember having the measles inoculation many years ago, are we still protected from the Measles?
Evidently these Afghans are bringing in measles and other diseases and are free to enter towns near the Bases! I'm hoping to get a Doctor to respond but I'm sure some expert will tackle this question

I'm 68.
I updated all my vaccinations last year.
Got vaccination for influenza and part 2 pneumonia, tetanus, diphtheria.
This year I received my covid shots and had to wait 60 days between my 1st shingles and 2nd vaccination and 2nd Covid. You can ask your doctor or pharmacist what you may require.

My Mom had shingles and it was extremely painful for her.
I grew up getting vaccinations.
So did most of us.
No vaccination, no going to school.
If you travel to different countries, certain vaccinations against disease are mandatory.
Many diseases have been eradicated and/or controlled thanks to science and preventative vaccines.

I'm far less concerned about "Afghans bringing measles and other diseases" than I am about Xenophobic American Antivaxxers who continue to spread ignorance, misinformation and this awful virus.

[Blueblaze]

Iknow dozens of people who had COVID including 6 on my street!

The definition of "victim" is YOU DIE. Did any of them die?

There's a 99.6% difference between "patient" and "victim". Practically everyone I know has, at a minimum, had a cold in the last two years, and most of them think it was probably Covid. My case actually tested positive for Covid.

The point is, we all know all these people who've had Covid, but almost nobody knows anyone who died.

That's pretty weird for a disease that caused us to crash our economy and quit educating our kids.

[Aces4]

////

[Ken D.]

My grandparents came to this country as unwashed immigrants, and the bigoted nativists even then screamed out that these dirty people were going to infect good Americans with diseases. Nothing has changed. The nativists are still using the same tropes and the same fear mongering against immigrants. We have had over 40 million immigrants alive in the US now, most entered outside the quota system.

Now tell me, how many infectious measles outbreaks (https://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html) have they caused, 40 million people. There was one in 2018 from a person from Ukraine. There was a large outbreak in an American born Orthodox Jewish NY community with a low vaccination rate and travel to Israel not immigrant related. Obviously this one could have been prevented by insisting on Americans being vaccinated before flying.

2017 an outbreak in US born Somalis in Minnesota, another vaccine refusing group.
2016 the only recent documented report in an immigrant group from the southern border.
There was a large outbreak in 2015 associated with visiting Disneyland in California. As the CDC reported:


The theme with measles is no different than that with Covid. While importation across our southern border is not zero, it is also not why we get outbreaks. Those who wish to blame our border policy lack evidence other than their confirmation bias layered on top of their nativist thinking.
And like Covid, get your shots as instructed by the experts at the CDC and you will overwhelmingly be protected.

What is the experience with measles in Texas, right at the epicenter of all those dirty unwashed illegals from countries with no shot requirement? The answer might be found on the Texas Department of health's website (https://www.dshs.texas.gov/IDCU/disease/measles/Measles.aspx) last updated March 2021

The key here is your grandparents entered this country “legally “ I’ll bet. Big difference!

[Alana33]

The definition of "victim" is YOU DIE. Did any of them die?

There's a 99.6% difference between "patient" and "victim". Practically everyone I know has, at a minimum, had a cold in the last two years, and most of them think it was probably Covid. My case actually tested positive for Covid.

The point is, we all know all these people who've had Covid, but almost nobody knows anyone who died.

That's pretty weird for a disease that caused us to crash our economy and quit educating our kids.

Except for my dead sister and 640,000 plus people.
You should consider volunteering at an overwhelmed hospital. They need help.
2 other family members are now long haul covid survivors with serious health issues because they chose not to be vaccinated.

But, hey, have at it.

[Aces4]

Wow!
I learn something every day!:icon_wink:


Another fact that may interest you then, The Guardian, article by Kenan Malik about how Britian’s offer to the Afghan refugees is not that generous, August 22nd 2021 article. It appears England sent many refugees back telling them their country is stable.🤫

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I'm 68.
I updated all my vaccinations last year.
Got vaccination for influenza and part 2 pneumonia, tetanus, diphtheria.
This year I received my covid shots and had to wait 60 days between my 1st shingles and 2nd vaccination and 2nd Covid. You can ask your doctor or pharmacist what you may require.

My Mom had shingles and it was extremely painful for her.
I grew up getting vaccinations.
So did most of us.
No vaccination, no going to school.
If you travel to different countries, certain vaccinations against disease are mandatory.
Many diseases have been eradicated and/or controlled thanks to science and preventative vaccines.

I'm far less concerned about "Afghans bringing measles and other diseases" than I am about Xenophobic American Antivaxxers who continue to spread ignorance, misinformation and this awful virus.

Preach on, sister. I'm with you 100% on this. This SHOULD be a no-brainer. No one should NEED to be coerced or manipulated into getting the vaccine. In fact, when the vaccine first came out, people were lining up BEGGING for their shot. The anti-vaxx movement is the only reason why there are still millions of people not vaccinated. They've convinced a lot of people - some who might otherwise be rather intelligent - that vaccines are bad for you. And the Covid-19 vaccines are just the latest bandwagon they're hopping on to push their agenda.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The definition of "victim" is YOU DIE. Did any of them die?

There's a 99.6% difference between "patient" and "victim". Practically everyone I know has, at a minimum, had a cold in the last two years, and most of them think it was probably Covid. My case actually tested positive for Covid.

The point is, we all know all these people who've had Covid, but almost nobody knows anyone who died.

That's pretty weird for a disease that caused us to crash our economy and quit educating our kids.

One of my neighbors died.

My cousin's neighbor died.

The point is not that no one knows anyone who died. The point is that being a VICTIM does not equate, exclusively, with death. If you're hit by a hit-and-run driver and live to tell about it, you're still a victim of a hit-and-run driver. If you're shot by a bank robber and live to tell about it, you're still a victim of a shooting. If your house is burglarized, and you aren't even injured at all, you're still a victim of a burglary.

If you're raped, you're a victim of rape whether you live or die as a result.

My sister is a VICTIM of Covid. She lived to tell about it, but she was very sick for a couple of months. Because of a blood clotting disorder, she CANNOT be vaccinated. The risk of a blood clot forming and killing her (which is a rare side effect of the vaccines) is higher for her than for people who don't have this disorder. She has to get tested regularly to make sure she still has antibodies. If she's no longer immune as a result of getting COVID, she will have to isolate away from everyone else. The next time she gets sick from it, it could kill her.

So just keep your semantic horsepucky to yourself. Living people are victimized by things every day. And every day my sister was sick, was a day our entire family was victimized by Covid and the insensitive jerks who spread the disease because "muh freedumz" were more important than world health.

[Aces4]

One of my neighbors died.

My cousin's neighbor died.

The point is not that no one knows anyone who died. The point is that being a VICTIM does not equate, exclusively, with death. If you're hit by a hit-and-run driver and live to tell about it, you're still a victim of a hit-and-run driver. If you're shot by a bank robber and live to tell about it, you're still a victim of a shooting. If your house is burglarized, and you aren't even injured at all, you're still a victim of a burglary.

If you're raped, you're a victim of rape whether you live or die as a result.

My sister is a VICTIM of Covid. She lived to tell about it, but she was very sick for a couple of months. Because of a blood clotting disorder, she CANNOT be vaccinated. The risk of a blood clot forming and killing her (which is a rare side effect of the vaccines) is higher for her than for people who don't have this disorder. She has to get tested regularly to make sure she still has antibodies. If she's no longer immune as a result of getting COVID, she will have to isolate away from everyone else. The next time she gets sick from it, it could kill her.

So just keep your semantic horsepucky to yourself. Living people are victimized by things every day. And every day my sister was sick, was a day our entire family was victimized by Covid and the insensitive jerks who spread the disease because "muh freedumz" were more important than world health.

And sadly, you may have been the individual harboring covid, without being sick yourself, who gave it to your sister. Why don’t people understand that fact? Your information is the horsepucky being shoveled by the uninformed.

[Aces4]

I'm far less concerned about "Afghans bringing measles and other diseases" than I am about Xenophobic American Antivaxxers who continue to spread ignorance, misinformation and this awful virus.

So it’s a matter of picking oxes to be gored...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

And sadly, you may have been the individual harboring covid, without being sick yourself, who gave it to your sister. Why don’t people understand that fact? Your information is the horsepucky being shoveled by the uninformed.

I wear a mask and I'm vaccinated. My sister doesn't live with me - she didn't even live in the same state when she got sick. So no, it wasn't me who gave it to her - unless you can catch it over the telephone.

[Topspinmo]

According to Dr. Google, the measles vaccination is mostly good for life.
Fort McCoy is nearly 1400 miles from TV.
Think it's fairly safe to go out in public:icon_wink:


Fort McCoy not the only post/base they going to.

[Topspinmo]

Can you remember back in grade school getting shots for measles, mumps, chicken pox, pneumonia and polo etc?
Can you also recall there was no choice to get vaccinated like the covid19 shot today, everybody get the shot?

What changed??

I was in military world wide ready deployment at 30 min notice when on mobility. I have shot records full of all sorts of shots. When I was in military you had no choice, you got the shot or you got article 15. Course that was close to 30 years ago when I retired. Don’t know rules now but I bet they have little choice??

[Aces4]

I wear a mask and I'm vaccinated. My sister doesn't live with me - she didn't even live in the same state when she got sick. So no, it wasn't me who gave it to her - unless you can catch it over the telephone.

I hope you understand you could not give it to her over the phone but the point was glazed over with that response. Your sister or any other vulnerable individual would require a total shutdown of society again and full isolation to never be exposed to covid 19 virus and even then, who knows. To indicate she was safe as long as she only associated with the vaccinated is a farce.

[Bill14564]

I hope you understand you could not give it to her over the phone but the point was glazed over with that response. Your sister or any other vulnerable individual would require a total shutdown of society again and full isolation to never be exposed to covid 19 virus and even then, who knows. To indicate she was safe as long as she only associated with the vaccinated is a farce.

If you only think in binary, that might be correct.

Is it possible for a vaccinated person to spread the virus? The answer seems to be yes. Will a vaccinated population spread the virus as quickly and as easily as an unvaccinated population? Absolutely not. While it is possible for a vaccinated person to become infected and possibly spread, it is far less likely: I have read their chance of becoming infected is less and the length of time they carry the virus is less. Put the virus in a crowd of vaccinated people and it has a hard time finding a way to reproduce and survive.

Does that drive it to zero? Maybe not, but it drives the amount of virus in the community down which reduces the likelihood that the few unprotected individuals encounter it.

Vaccines don't need to be 100% effective and they don't need to be taken by 100% of the population in order to make the world safe. Determining the numbers to make this work is beyond my simple math but it is pretty clear that 70% uptake is not sufficient.

[Blueblaze]

One of my neighbors died.

My cousin's neighbor died.

The point is not that no one knows anyone who died. The point is that being a VICTIM does not equate, exclusively, with death. If you're hit by a hit-and-run driver and live to tell about it, you're still a victim of a hit-and-run driver. If you're shot by a bank robber and live to tell about it, you're still a victim of a shooting. If your house is burglarized, and you aren't even injured at all, you're still a victim of a burglary.

If you're raped, you're a victim of rape whether you live or die as a result.

My sister is a VICTIM of Covid. She lived to tell about it, but she was very sick for a couple of months. Because of a blood clotting disorder, she CANNOT be vaccinated. The risk of a blood clot forming and killing her (which is a rare side effect of the vaccines) is higher for her than for people who don't have this disorder. She has to get tested regularly to make sure she still has antibodies. If she's no longer immune as a result of getting COVID, she will have to isolate away from everyone else. The next time she gets sick from it, it could kill her.

So just keep your semantic horsepucky to yourself. Living people are victimized by things every day. And every day my sister was sick, was a day our entire family was victimized by Covid and the insensitive jerks who spread the disease because "muh freedumz" were more important than world health.

Well, I do know someone who almost died from your "rare blood clot" vaccination side effect -- my neighbor had a stroke the day after she got her shot. Is that "semantic horse pucky?" Does your right to not catch a bad cold extend to forcing people to have strokes? And if the "side effect" is so rare for this experimental gene manipulation vaccine, isn't it odd that I know a victim of the vaccine but not any victims of the disease?

I never said I was against getting vaccinated. I got my shots (I actually got my case of Covid waiting in line for my 2nd shot -- standing on a floor sticker in an Ocala shopping mall with a mask on, 6 feet from a bunch of other people in masks who had already had their temperature checked).

But your right to not catch a bad cold does not extend to forcing your neighbors to inject gene manipulation into their own bodies, with unknown side effects. Two of my grandkids have deadly peanut allergies. Does that give me the right to confiscate your peanuts?

We know the long-term effects of ordinary vaccines. We don't know the long term effect of injecting a live virus into a person, in order to hijack that person's living cells to produce spike proteins, in order to produce an immune response to a completely different virus. Did you know that's how the one-shot J&J vaccine works? The Pfizer and Moderna MRNA vaccines are even more experimental -- they inject the genes to produce the spike protein directly into your cells.

I'm an old man more at risk from the disease than the long-term effects, so I got the shot. But I'm deeply worried about the unknown long-term effects of injecting a pre-teen with this gene manipulation. Could it make them sterile? Could it cause their kids to be born with cleft palate or some other genetic defect? NOBODY KNOWS.

You don't have the right to inject my grandkids with experimental gene manipulation, just to save you from a 0.4% chance of death. And I don't have any more right to order you to take an experimental shot to protect my grandkids from a bad cold than I have to confiscate your peanuts for their peanut allergy.

Your health is your responsibility, not the hive's. We aren't insects, we are free men. Or at least we used to be.

[Aces4]

If you only think in binary, that might be correct.

Is it possible for a vaccinated person to spread the virus? The answer seems to be yes. Will a vaccinated population spread the virus as quickly and as easily as an unvaccinated population? Absolutely not. While it is possible for a vaccinated person to become infected and possibly spread, it is far less likely: I have read their chance of becoming infected is less and the length of time they carry the virus is less. Put the virus in a crowd of vaccinated people and it has a hard time finding a way to reproduce and survive.

Does that drive it to zero? Maybe not, but it drives the amount of virus in the community down which reduces the likelihood that the few unprotected individuals encounter it.

Vaccines don't need to be 100% effective and they don't need to be taken by 100% of the population in order to make the world safe. Determining the numbers to make this work is beyond my simple math but it is pretty clear that 70% uptake is not sufficient.

Is this where the delusion begins, I know of vaccinated couples and families infected by vaccinated spouses and aunts and uncles. You carry the same covid virus as the unvaccinated if you have been exposed to another person carrying the virus. It is not a weakened form of the virus, it is the same virus in the vaccinated and unvaccinated. Hospitalizations maybe lower in the vaccinated but I’m still seeing many hospitalizations in the vaccinated too.

[golfing eagles]

Well, I do know someone who almost died from your "rare blood clot" vaccination side effect -- my neighbor had a stroke the day after she got her shot. Is that "semantic horse pucky?" Does your right to not catch a bad cold extend to forcing people to have strokes? And if the "side effect" is so rare for this experimental gene manipulation vaccine, isn't it odd that I know a victim of the vaccine but not any victims of the disease?

I never said I was against getting vaccinated. I got my shots (I actually got my case of Covid waiting in line for my 2nd shot -- standing on a floor sticker in an Ocala shopping mall with a mask on, 6 feet from a bunch of other people in masks who had already had their temperature checked).

But your right to not catch a bad cold does not extend to forcing your neighbors to inject gene manipulation into their own bodies, with unknown side effects. Two of my grandkids have deadly peanut allergies. Does that give me the right to confiscate your peanuts?

We know the long-term effects of ordinary vaccines. We don't know the long term effect of injecting a live virus into a person, in order to hijack that person's living cells to produce spike proteins, in order to produce an immune response to a completely different virus. Did you know that's how the one-shot J&J vaccine works? The Pfizer and Moderna MRNA vaccines are even more experimental -- they inject the genes to produce the spike protein directly into your cells.

I'm an old man more at risk from the disease than the long-term effects, so I got the shot. But I'm deeply worried about the unknown long-term effects of injecting a pre-teen with this gene manipulation. Could it make them sterile? Could it cause their kids to be born with cleft palate or some other genetic defect? NOBODY KNOWS.

You don't have the right to inject my grandkids with experimental gene manipulation, just to save you from a 0.4% chance of death. And I don't have any more right to order you to take an experimental shot to protect my grandkids from a bad cold than I have to confiscate your peanuts for their peanut allergy.

Your health is your responsibility, not the hive's. We aren't insects, we are free men. Or at least we used to be.

And the problem with your post is the original premise------THIS VACCINE IS NOT "EXPERIMENTAL GENE MANIPULATION". PERIOD!!! EXCLAMATION POINT!!!

[golfing eagles]

Is this where the delusion begins, I know of vaccinated couples and families infected by vaccinated spouses and aunts and uncles. You carry the same covid virus as the unvaccinated if you have been exposed to another person carrying the virus. It is not a weakened form of the virus, it is the same virus in the vaccinated and unvaccinated. Hospitalizations maybe lower in the vaccinated but I’m still seeing many hospitalizations in the vaccinated too.

Actually you are right , it is the same virus. But whether the immune system of a vaccinated individual "weakens" it before it can be transmitted is unknown
at this time. However, again, the assumption that a vaccinated individual can contract COVID as easily as the unvaccinated is COMPLETELY FALSE. They can, but at a substantially lower rate, and then the chance of another vaccinated individual getting it from him is extremely low.

Lastly, as of this morning, Advent Health reports that 92% of their ICU COVID cases have not been vaccinated. So, as of this morning, this is STILL a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

[Aces4]

Actually you are right , it is the same virus. But whether the immune system of a vaccinated individual "weakens" it before it can be transmitted is unknown
at this time. However, again, the assumption that a vaccinated individual can contract COVID as easily as the unvaccinated is COMPLETELY FALSE. They can, but at a substantially lower rate, and then the chance of another vaccinated individual getting it from him is extremely low.

Lastly, as of this morning, Advent Health reports that 92% of their ICU COVID cases have not been vaccinated. So, as of this morning, this is STILL a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

You missed the point, vaccinated distribute the virus the same as everyone else even if THEY don’t have covid personally. The mess I’m watching at this point is an extremely fit and healthy RN, vaccinated and does not work in hospital or clinic setting contracted disease from vaccinated person, she spread it to her significant other, her brother now has it and two of her nephews just were diagnosed. Only the children were unvaccinated and she herself ran a pretty good fever, headache, body aches and a cough that has lingered. I didn’t hear if her sense of taste was affected. One of the patients is immunocompromised and is struggling even though vaccinated.

Also, what about the fellow poster on here who was vaccinated, got covid, was hospitalized and may have permanent lung damage? Why are we hearing about these “breakthrough cases” if all is well with the vaccinated and they only spread a weak version?

[brfree1411@aol.com]

All citizens from the US have to receive vaccinations to enter other countries, smallpox, malaria, etc. Can we be sure citizens of other countries are vaccinated before entering this country at large? Maybe they are offended by this?

[golfing eagles]

You missed the point, vaccinated distribute the virus the same as everyone else even if THEY don’t have covid personally. The mess I’m watching at this point is an extremely fit and healthy RN, vaccinated and does not work in hospital or clinic setting contracted disease from vaccinated person, she spread it to her significant other, her brother now has it and two of her nephews just were diagnosed. Only the children were unvaccinated and she herself ran a pretty good fever, headache, body aches and a cough that has lingered. I didn’t hear if her sense of taste was affected. One of the patients is immunocompromised and is struggling even though vaccinated.

Also, what about the fellow poster on here who was vaccinated, got covid, was hospitalized and may have permanent lung damage? Why are we hearing about these “breakthrough cases” if all is well with the vaccinated and they only spread a weak version?

Yes, a point was missed, but not by me. Again, the vaccinated can spread the virus, but RARELY. How rare---breakthrough cases for the original virus was 0.07%. That's breakthrough----the chances of someone contracting the virus FROM that breakthrough case is much lower. Since that number was last published by the CDC in May, they have stopped counting breakthrough cases, so we don't have numbers for the delta variant, but empirically it is thought to be much lower than the unvaccinated.
An anecdotal case as was described proves absolutely nothing.

[jswirs]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;2001355]And the problem with your post is the original premise------THIS VACCINE IS NOT "EXPERIMENTAL GENE MANIPULATION". PERIOD!!! EXCLAMATION POINT!!![/QUOTE

It may not be gene manipulation, but at present, as far as I am concerned, it is still experimental, because it simply has not been widely used for a sufficient amount of time. Therefore, no one knows what the long term effects may be. PERIOD!!!

[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;2001355]And the problem with your post is the original premise------THIS VACCINE IS NOT "EXPERIMENTAL GENE MANIPULATION". PERIOD!!! EXCLAMATION POINT!!![/QUOTE

It may not be gene manipulation, but at present, as far as I am concerned, it is still experimental, because it simply has not been widely used for a sufficient amount of time. Therefore, no one knows what the long term effects may be. PERIOD!!!

Yep---you never know if 20 years from now you'll grow a second nose in the middle of your forehead:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

BTW, hundreds of millions vaccinated is probably considered "widely used", and the study designs will weed out some, not all of the potential long term effects, if any, which is doubtful.

[Blueblaze]

And the problem with your post is the original premise------THIS VACCINE IS NOT "EXPERIMENTAL GENE MANIPULATION". PERIOD!!! EXCLAMATION POINT!!!

Look it up. That is exactly what CDC told me it was, a year ago when it was first announced, and I googled "mRNA vaccine".

In fact, I just typed "how does the mrna vaccine work" into google and got that exact same PDF document from the CDC website. It doesn't mention the "experimental" part. Instead, it gives you this innocent-sounding explanation for gene manipulation:

"The mRNA in the vaccine teaches your cells how to make copies of the spike protein. If you are exposed to the real virus later, your body will recognize it and know how to fight it off".

PERIOD!!! EXCLAMATION POINT!!!

[Bill14564]

Look it up. That is exactly what CDC told me it was, a year ago when it was first announced, and I googled "mRNA vaccine".

In fact, I just typed "how does the mrna vaccine work" into google and got that exact same PDF document from the CDC website. It doesn't mention the "experimental" part. Instead, it gives you this innocent-sounding explanation for gene manipulation:

"The mRNA in the vaccine teaches your cells how to make copies of the spike protein. If you are exposed to the real virus later, your body will recognize it and know how to fight it off".

PERIOD!!! EXCLAMATION POINT!!!

That is not an "innocent-sounding explanation for gene manipulation." That is not an explanation of gene manipulation at all. The explanation does not once mention any change in your genes because there IS NO CHANGE IN YOUR GENES.

It will take me a while to find the correct term for this (hopefully someone will jump in with it) but it is NOT gene manipulation.

[golfing eagles]

Look it up. That is exactly what CDC told me it was, a year ago when it was first announced, and I googled "mRNA vaccine".

In fact, I just typed "how does the mrna vaccine work" into google and got that exact same PDF document from the CDC website. It doesn't mention the "experimental" part. Instead, it gives you this innocent-sounding explanation for gene manipulation:

"The mRNA in the vaccine teaches your cells how to make copies of the spike protein. If you are exposed to the real virus later, your body will recognize it and know how to fight it off".

PERIOD!!! EXCLAMATION POINT!!!

So, let's repeat what you just posted:

"The mRNA in the vaccine teaches your cells how to make copies of the spike protein. If you are exposed to the real virus later, your body will recognize it and know how to fight it off".

This is what you took to mean that the vaccine is "gene manipulation"????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

OMG, a perfect example of regurgitating something found on a web page with absolutely zero understanding of what it means.

OK, time for remedial genetics 101:

A gene is a sequence of DNA that resides at a specific location on a chromosome and codes for a single protein/enzyme. We have over 100,000 of these genes, and they are separated by sequences of DNA that we do not fully understand, called intercalated DNA. The DNA, when needed to produce its end product, gets "unzipped" by a specific enzyme (RNA polymerase) and transcribes its code to a template known as mRNA. The mRNA then exits the nucleus of the cell, enters the cytoplasm and a ribosome finds it and copies the mRNA to its invers, tRNA. The tRNA then assembles amino acids into a protein chain according to the code.

Follow so far?????

The mRNA vaccines simply enter cells and their code gets translated on ribosomes via the same mechanism to its end product, which in this case is the spike protein of the COVID virus.

IT DOES NOT TOUCH YOUR DNA, IT DOES NOT ALTER ANY GENES, IT SIMPLY ACTS LIKE YOUR OWN mRNA. CLEAR ENOUGH?

[coffeebean]

Look it up. That is exactly what CDC told me it was, a year ago when it was first announced, and I googled "mRNA vaccine".

In fact, I just typed "how does the mrna vaccine work" into google and got that exact same PDF document from the CDC website. It doesn't mention the "experimental" part. Instead, it gives you this innocent-sounding explanation for gene manipulation:

"The mRNA in the vaccine teaches your cells how to make copies of the spike protein. If you are exposed to the real virus later, your body will recognize it and know how to fight it off".

PERIOD!!! EXCLAMATION POINT!!!

Fact check from Reuters........
Fact Check-mRNA vaccines are distinct from gene therapy, which alters recipient’s genes | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-mrna-gene/fact-check-mrna-vaccines-are-distinct-from-gene-therapy-which-alters-recipients-genes-idUSL1N2PH16N)

There are many more credible sources that debunk the "gene therapy manipulation" misinformation. Look for yourself.

[coffeebean]

Look it up. That is exactly what CDC told me it was, a year ago when it was first announced, and I googled "mRNA vaccine".

In fact, I just typed "how does the mrna vaccine work" into google and got that exact same PDF document from the CDC website. It doesn't mention the "experimental" part. Instead, it gives you this innocent-sounding explanation for gene manipulation:

"The mRNA in the vaccine teaches your cells how to make copies of the spike protein. If you are exposed to the real virus later, your body will recognize it and know how to fight it off".

PERIOD!!! EXCLAMATION POINT!!!

Here is more information that debunks the "gene therapy" misinformation from a credible source, the CDC........

Myths and Facts about COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html)

[coffeebean]

So, let's repeat what you just posted:

"The mRNA in the vaccine teaches your cells how to make copies of the spike protein. If you are exposed to the real virus later, your body will recognize it and know how to fight it off".

This is what you took to mean that the vaccine is "gene manipulation"????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

OMG, a perfect example of regurgitating something found on a web page with absolutely zero understanding of what it means.

OK, time for remedial genetics 101:

A gene is a sequence of DNA that resides at a specific location on a chromosome and codes for a single protein/enzyme. We have over 100,000 of these genes, and they are separated by sequences of DNA that we do not fully understand, called intercalated DNA. The DNA, when needed to produce its end product, gets "unzipped" by a specific enzyme (RNA polymerase) and transcribes its code to a template known as mRNA. The mRNA then exits the nucleus of the cell, enters the cytoplasm and a ribosome finds it and copies the mRNA to its invers, tRNA. The tRNA then assembles amino acids into a protein chain according to the code.

Follow so far?????

The mRNA vaccines simply enter cells and their code gets translated on ribosomes via the same mechanism to its end product, which in this case is the spike protein of the COVID virus.

IT DOES NOT TOUCH YOUR DNA, IT DOES NOT ALTER ANY GENES, IT SIMPLY ACTS LIKE YOUR OWN mRNA. CLEAR ENOUGH?

Way to go, GE. Thank you!

[Aces4]

Yes, a point was missed, but not by me. Again, the vaccinated can spread the virus, but RARELY. How rare---breakthrough cases for the original virus was 0.07%. That's breakthrough----the chances of someone contracting the virus FROM that breakthrough case is much lower. Since that number was last published by the CDC in May, they have stopped counting breakthrough cases, so we don't have numbers for the delta variant, but empirically it is thought to be much lower than the unvaccinated.
An anecdotal case as was described proves absolutely nothing.


You’re getting skewed numbers in my opinion, the breakthrough numbers are much higher than that. There are so many cases in and spread by the vaccinated and anyone who believes total vaccination with eliminate covid 19 is dreaming. I don’t trust it at all anymore and take steps to avoid exposure from everyone. I think there is a head in the sand posture from those that totally believe the numbers being shoved at us.

How about the couple who each made different vaccination decisions. He is out and about more than she and he opted for vaccination. She opted to pass on vaccination. Yes, HE got covid and infected her. Don’t waste time telling the vaccinated they are now the anointed, we can still carry and spread the virus to others as well as develop covid infection.

[golfing eagles]

You’re getting skewed numbers in my opinion, the breakthrough numbers are much higher than that. There are so many cases in and spread by the vaccinated and anyone who believes total vaccination with eliminate covid 19 is dreaming. I don’t trust it at all anymore and take steps to avoid exposure from everyone. I think there is a head in the sand posture from those that totally believe the numbers being shoved at us.

How about the couple who each made different vaccination decisions. He is out and about more than she and he opted for vaccination. She opted to pass on vaccination. Yes, HE got covid and infected her. Don’t waste time telling the vaccinated they are now the anointed, we can still carry and spread the virus to others as well as develop covid infection.

And yet another anecdotal story that means nothing.

The post states "so many cases". HOW MANY??? I don't know, do you???? And if so, where can I find that number?

There have been several posts of anecdotes, I like the ones that state "so and so got COVID from a vaccinated person"---How did they know that? Could have gotten it anywhere.

I just wish the CDC didn't stop counting breakthrough cases, then we would have a better idea of vaccine effectiveness against delta.

[Aces4]

And yet another anecdotal story that means nothing.

The post states "so many cases". HOW MANY??? I don't know, do you???? And if so, where can I find that number?

There have been several posts of anecdotes, I like the ones that state "so and so got COVID from a vaccinated person"---How did they know that? Could have gotten it anywhere.

I just wish the CDC didn't stop counting breakthrough cases, then we would have a better idea of vaccine effectiveness against delta.


Isn’t it interesting when factual cases are dismissed because they don’t conform to one’s ideology. This is what is scary, sweep the truth under the rug and listen to the mantra.

Those statistics should be totally public. But if those numbers are as skewed and manipulated as were the actual deaths from Covid19 numbers, why bother? All the people who were dying and got covid, died as anticipated but were tallied as covid deaths because there was a bonus for those.

[golfing eagles]

Isn’t it interesting when factual cases are dismissed because they don’t conform to one’s ideology. This is what scary, sweep the truth under the rug and listen to the mantra.

Those statistics should be totally public. But if those numbers are as skewed and manipulated as were the actual deaths from Covid19 numbers, why bother? All the people who were dying and got covid, died as anticipated.

This is medical science, "ideology" has nothing to do with it. I don't know your ideology and you don't know mine.
So, scientifically, how is anyone to know that these anecdotes are "factual cases". Where's the proof, the scientific proof? Is the whole world just supposed to take someone's word for it? And even if they are trying to be truthful, their facts and conclusions are probably way off the mark

What needs to be done to answer to question would be a large, multi-centered, randomized, double blind study. Take 5,000 people who have been vaccinated and 5,000 that refused and test them weekly for COVID and interview them for symptoms. Keep a chart of when they were vaccinated. Then we could get a better idea of the breakthrough rate as well as the time course of immunity from the vaccine. I don't know of any group that is actually conducting such a study. The unethical study would be to take the 2 groups and expose them at the same time. Much better data, would never get through an ethical review board NOR SHOULD IT

[Aces4]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;2001624]This is medical science, "ideology" has nothing to do with it. I don't know your ideology and you don't know mine.
So, scientifically, how is anyone to know that these anecdotes are "factual cases". Where's the proof, the scientific proof? Is the whole world just supposed to take someone's word for it? And even if they are trying to be truthful, their facts and conclusions are probably way off the mark

What needs to be done to answer to question would be a large, multi-centered, randomized, double blind study. Take 5,000 people who have been vaccinated and 5,000 that refused and test them weekly for COVID and interview them for symptoms. Keep a chart of when they were vaccinated. Then we could get a better idea of the breakthrough rate as well as the time course of immunity from the vaccine. I don't know of any group that is actually conducting such a study.[/


Then you have no grounds on which to base your facts because statistics are missing and most people dealing with covid are not being tracked! It’s all hyperbole.

[jswirs]

[QUOTE=jswirs;2001483]

Yep---you never know if 20 years from now you'll grow a second nose in the middle of your forehead:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

BTW, hundreds of millions vaccinated is probably considered "widely used", and the study designs will weed out some, not all of the potential long term effects, if any, which is doubtful.
OK, GE, I'll take a page out of your book....... Time for remedial reading and comprehension 101.... go back to my post and you will see I said "It has not been widely used for a sufficient amount of time". Please notice there is no period after the word "used", therefore, you took my statement out of context, and your snarky remark, as highlighted above, is foolishly misplaced. And, speaking of "growing a second nose", maybe, someday, some of us will grow less egotistical...but I doubt it.

[Bill14564]

Isn’t it interesting when factual cases are dismissed because they don’t conform to one’s ideology. This is what scary, sweep the truth under the rug and listen to the mantra.

Those statistics should be totally public. But if those numbers are as skewed and manipulated as were the actual deaths from Covid19 numbers, why bother? All the people who were dying and got covid, died as anticipated.

The statistics are public and are not skewed or manipulated.

The factual cases DO conform to expectations. No vaccine is 100% effective and there will be breakthrough cases. In fact, as discussed several times before, during the trials the count of the number of vaccinated individuals who became hospitalized was needed to calculate effectiveness. A VERY SMALL NUMBER of hospitalizations and even deaths in vaccinated people is expected.

The number of vaccinated people becoming infected with Covid cannot be tracked accurately. Counting the number of positive test results in vaccinated people would only capture those that came in for testing which most would not. Rather than provide a number that would immediately be criticized as an undercount the CDC chose to capture a more meaningful number. Since the vaccine was designed and tested to prevent sickness, they now count the number of vaccinated who are hospitalized. This would show a true breakthrough case since it is a case where the disease broke through the protection against illness that the vaccine was providing. This number is available on the CDC website.

[Aces4]

The statistics are public and are not skewed or manipulated.

The factual cases DO conform to expectations. No vaccine is 100% effective and there will be breakthrough cases. In fact, as discussed several times before, during the trials the count of the number of vaccinated individuals who became hospitalized was needed to calculate effectiveness. A VERY SMALL NUMBER of hospitalizations and even deaths in vaccinated people is expected.

The number of vaccinated people becoming infected with Covid cannot be tracked accurately. Counting the number of positive test results in vaccinated people would only capture those that came in for testing which most would not. Rather than provide a number that would immediately be criticized as an undercount the CDC chose to capture a more meaningful number. Since the vaccine was designed and tested to prevent sickness, they now count the number of vaccinated who are hospitalized. This would show a true breakthrough case since it is a case where the disease broke through the protection against illness that the vaccine was providing. This number is available on the CDC website.


Thank you for making my case, incomplete and cherry picked numbers are being utilized. How can anyone with analyzation skills swallow the synopsis provided to the public?

It might help here if the fellow poster who developed covid after full vaccination would share with us how intensely he was questioned, evaluated and tracked following his harrowing case of covid. I could use his name but respect his privacy if he desires.

[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;2001624]This is medical science, "ideology" has nothing to do with it. I don't know your ideology and you don't know mine.
So, scientifically, how is anyone to know that these anecdotes are "factual cases". Where's the proof, the scientific proof? Is the whole world just supposed to take someone's word for it? And even if they are trying to be truthful, their facts and conclusions are probably way off the mark

What needs to be done to answer to question would be a large, multi-centered, randomized, double blind study. Take 5,000 people who have been vaccinated and 5,000 that refused and test them weekly for COVID and interview them for symptoms. Keep a chart of when they were vaccinated. Then we could get a better idea of the breakthrough rate as well as the time course of immunity from the vaccine. I don't know of any group that is actually conducting such a study.[/


Then you have no grounds on which to base your facts because statistics are missing and most people dealing with covid are not being tracked! It’s all hyperbole.

Correct---that was my point---we don't have good data.

What I have is an educated guess as to breakthrough rate for the delta variant based on the breakthrough rate for the original virus and my general knowledge of virology and epidemiology. And that guess is in the 2-8% range. If anyone has more medical education, experience and knowledge of virology, I'd like to hear their guess, because there is nothing to say mine is absolutely correct.

[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;2001484]
OK, GE, I'll take a page out of your book....... Time for remedial reading and comprehension 101.... go back to my post and you will see I said "It has not been widely used for a sufficient amount of time". Please notice there is no period after the word "used", therefore, you took my statement out of context, and your snarky remark, as highlighted above, is foolishly misplaced. And, speaking of "growing a second nose", maybe, someday, some of us will grow less egotistical...but I doubt it.

No, I read your post and did not take it out of context. There was a "widely used" aspect and a "sufficient time" aspect. I addressed the widely used with the FACT that hundreds of millions have received vaccines, and I don't see anything "snarky" in that highlighted text. I merely implied the "sufficient" time aspect knowing study designs do look for signs that would point to a some late side effects, but that we don't know yet. However, knowing how a mRNA vaccine works, it is unlikely to cause any long term effects but I could be wrong.(In which case I'm in good company). So if anyone was taking a post out of context, it wasn't me.

[Bill14564]

Thank you for making my case, incomplete and cherry picked numbers are being utilized. How can anyone with analyzation skills swallow the synopsis provided to the public?

It might help here if the fellow poster who developed covid after full vaccination would share with us how intensely he was questioned, evaluated and tracked following his harrowing case of covid. I could use his name but respect his privacy if he desires.

The numbers being used are not cherry picked or incomplete.

Do you dispute that over 90% of the hospitalizations are unvaccinated? Do you have an explanation for that other than the effectiveness of the vaccine?

[Aces4]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;2001634][QUOTE=Aces4;2001625]

Correct---that was my point---we don't have good data.



Agreed, that is the point to be made. We simply don’t have true data for this virus and why personally, I continue respect the fact that we are all spreaders until proven otherwise

[Aces4]

The numbers being used are not cherry picked or incomplete.

Do you dispute that over 90% of the hospitalizations are unvaccinated? Do you have an explanation for that other than the effectiveness of the vaccine?

Do you have the absolute data for complicated and numbers of breakthrough in the vaccinated? Data is missing including tracking and spread of covid from the vaccinated.

[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;2001634][QUOTE=Aces4;2001625]

Correct---that was my point---we don't have good data.



Agreed, that is the point to be made. We simply don’t have true data for this virus and why personally, I continue respect the fact that we are all spreaders until proven otherwise

Sure, that's safe, no problem. But realize it is EXTREMELY unlikely that a large percentage of those vaccinated are "spreaders", based on data for breakthrough from the original virus and the percentage of hospitalizations, ICU admissions, and deaths of the UNvaccinated. Yet, you are correct, any one given vaccinated person could still be a threat.

[Bill14564]

Do you have the absolute data for complicated and numbers of breakthrough in the vaccinated? Data is missing including tracking and spread of covid from the vaccinated.

Do I have the private personal and medical details of the 14,115 vaccinated individuals who were hospitalized through 7 September? Absolutely not and I am glad that private data has not been made public. The counts and the limited demographics that are available are sufficient.

Do you dispute that over 90% of the hospitalizations are in the unvaccinated? If not, do you have an explanation for that other than the effectiveness of the vaccines?

[jswirs]

[QUOTE=jswirs;2001483]

Yep---you never know if 20 years from now you'll grow a second nose in the middle of your forehead:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

BTW, hundreds of millions vaccinated is probably considered "widely used", and the study designs will weed out some, not all of the potential long term effects, if any, which is doubtful.

[QUOTE=jswirs;2001627]

No, I read your post and did not take it out of context. There was a "widely used" aspect and a "sufficient time" aspect. I addressed the widely used with the FACT that hundreds of millions have received vaccines, and I don't see anything "snarky" in that highlighted text. I merely implied the "sufficient" time aspect knowing study designs do look for signs that would point to a some late side effects, but that we don't know yet. However, knowing how a mRNA vaccine works, it is unlikely to cause any long term effects but I could be wrong.(In which case I'm in good company). So if anyone was taking a post out of context, it wasn't me.

I would say nice try, but it really wasn't. I know better.

[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;2001484]

[QUOTE=golfing eagles;2001637]

I would say nice try, but it really wasn't. I know better.

Do or do not, there is no try----Yoda, 1980

I did.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Y'all need to learn how to quote posts on this forum.

[Blueblaze]

So, let's repeat what you just posted:

"The mRNA in the vaccine teaches your cells how to make copies of the spike protein. If you are exposed to the real virus later, your body will recognize it and know how to fight it off".

This is what you took to mean that the vaccine is "gene manipulation"????:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

OMG, a perfect example of regurgitating something found on a web page with absolutely zero understanding of what it means.

OK, time for remedial genetics 101:

A gene is a sequence of DNA that resides at a specific location on a chromosome and codes for a single protein/enzyme. We have over 100,000 of these genes, and they are separated by sequences of DNA that we do not fully understand, called intercalated DNA. The DNA, when needed to produce its end product, gets "unzipped" by a specific enzyme (RNA polymerase) and transcribes its code to a template known as mRNA. The mRNA then exits the nucleus of the cell, enters the cytoplasm and a ribosome finds it and copies the mRNA to its invers, tRNA. The tRNA then assembles amino acids into a protein chain according to the code.

Follow so far?????

The mRNA vaccines simply enter cells and their code gets translated on ribosomes via the same mechanism to its end product, which in this case is the spike protein of the COVID virus.

IT DOES NOT TOUCH YOUR DNA, IT DOES NOT ALTER ANY GENES, IT SIMPLY ACTS LIKE YOUR OWN mRNA. CLEAR ENOUGH?

You described how the mRNA vaccines work to trick cells to make spike vaccines. Although that is not gene MODIFICATION, it is certainly gene MANIPULATION.

Here's the bottom line -- your cells don't know how to make ANY proteins without genetic instructions. The ONLY way to "teach" a cell to do anything is to manipulate its genes!

But you forgot to tell us how the J&J works. Its actually DOES manipulate the DNA genes found in the nucleus! It does this by injecting an (assumed) harmless LIVE VIRUS that has been genetically altered to carry the gene necessary to make a human cell produce the Covid "spike" protein. This is what ALL viruses do -- they insert their genetic material into the DNA of the host cell, to force it to make copies of the virus. In this case, J&J altered a benign virus to make it make copes of the spike protein instead of the virus itself.

The assumption with all of these gene manipulation vaccines is that the cells altered aren't likely to be eggs or sperm that would cause an inherited defect, and since the altered cells will soon die off anyway, there should be no lasting damage. But, of course, there is no way to be certain -- it's just unlikely that the vaccine mRNA or J&J virus could make it all the way to your ovaries before it encounters a cell (unlikely -- much like your odds of dying from a cold virus).

But there is no way to be certain that the genes altered or manipulated won't have unintended consequences in some of the trillions of possible combinations of human genes that exist in the wild. We have already discovered that some people develop the clotting disorder that nearly killed my neighbor. What about immune system disorders? What if your immune system suddenly decided that all muscle cells are a danger that must be destroyed because the ones in your arm where you got the shot are producing millions of foreign "spike" proteins?

But the side effect I'm worried about is sterility or birth defects. Nobody knows what happens to a 10-year-old child who's been exposed to this particular gene manipulation, 10 years from now, when they start having kids. Probably nothing. But I would rather we not commit the entire human race to this experiment. Why not just let adults make their own informed choices about themselves and their kids?

This is a disease of old people. We're the ones at risk, not the children. Why don't we take the chance on this risky new technology and leave our grand-kids out of it until we have a few years of history with it?

At this point, we don't know what we don't know.

[golfing eagles]

You described how the mRNA vaccines work to trick cells to make spike vaccines. Although that is not gene MODIFICATION, it is certainly gene MANIPULATION.

Here's the bottom line -- your cells don't know how to make ANY proteins without genetic instructions. The ONLY way to "teach" a cell to do anything is to manipulate its genes!

But you forgot to tell us how the J&J works. Its actually DOES manipulate the DNA genes found in the nucleus! It does this by injecting an (assumed) harmless LIVE VIRUS that has been genetically altered to carry the gene necessary to make a human cell produce the Covid "spike" protein. This is what ALL viruses do -- they insert their genetic material into the DNA of the host cell, to force it to make copies of the virus. In this case, J&J altered a benign virus to make it make copes of the spike protein instead of the virus itself.

The assumption with all of these gene manipulation vaccines is that the cells altered aren't likely to be eggs or sperm that would cause an inherited defect, and since the altered cells will soon die off anyway, there should be no lasting damage. But, of course, there is no way to be certain -- it's just unlikely that the vaccine mRNA or J&J virus could make it all the way to your ovaries before it encounters a cell (unlikely -- much like your odds of dying from a cold virus).

But there is no way to be certain that the genes altered or manipulated won't have unintended consequences in some of the trillions of possible combinations of human genes that exist in the wild. We have already discovered that some people develop the clotting disorder that nearly killed my neighbor. What about immune system disorders? What if your immune system suddenly decided that all muscle cells are a danger that must be destroyed because the ones in your arm where you got the shot are producing millions of foreign "spike" proteins?

But the side effect I'm worried about is sterility or birth defects. Nobody knows what happens to a 10-year-old child who's been exposed to this particular gene manipulation, 10 years from now, when they start having kids. Probably nothing. But I would rather we not commit the entire human race to this experiment. Why not just let adults make their own informed choices about themselves and their kids?

This is a disease of old people. We're the ones at risk, not the children. Why don't we take the chance on this risky new technology and leave our grand-kids out of it until we have a few years of history with it?

At this point, we don't know what we don't know.

Awful lot of words to again spread misinformation.

These vaccines are NOT gene manipulation. You made up your own definition of manipulation and then applied it to these vaccines. That's a big no-no:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

And J&J is a viral vector vaccine, not a mRNA vaccine like Pfizer and Moderna

And from the CDC website

"Facts about COVID-19 Viral Vector Vaccines
They cannot give someone COVID-19 or other infections.

Viral vectors cannot cause infection with COVID-19 or with the virus used as the vaccine vector.
They do not affect or interact with our DNA in any way.

The genetic material delivered by the viral vector does not integrate into a person’s DNA."

Game, set, match----not that you ever had a chance:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[coffeebean]

This is medical science, "ideology" has nothing to do with it. I don't know your ideology and you don't know mine.
So, scientifically, how is anyone to know that these anecdotes are "factual cases". Where's the proof, the scientific proof? Is the whole world just supposed to take someone's word for it? And even if they are trying to be truthful, their facts and conclusions are probably way off the mark

What needs to be done to answer to question would be a large, multi-centered, randomized, double blind study. Take 5,000 people who have been vaccinated and 5,000 that refused and test them weekly for COVID and interview them for symptoms. Keep a chart of when they were vaccinated. Then we could get a better idea of the breakthrough rate as well as the time course of immunity from the vaccine. I don't know of any group that is actually conducting such a study.[/


Then you have no grounds on which to base your facts because statistics are missing and most people dealing with covid are not being tracked! It’s all hyperbole.

However...........the fact remains that a large percentage (90%) of people who are hospitalized and dying are the UN-vaccinated. To me, this pandemic remains a pandemic of the UN-vaccinated.

[golfing eagles]

[QUOTE=Aces4;2001625]

However...........the fact remains that a large percentage (90%) of people who are hospitalized and dying are the UN-vaccinated. To me, this pandemic remains a pandemic of the UN-vaccinated.

How did my post and that , well, questionable response get merged into one in the post you quoted? I disavow any responsibility for that last sentence.

[Blueblaze]

Awful lot of words to again spread misinformation.

These vaccines are NOT gene manipulation. You made up your own definition of manipulation and then applied it to these vaccines. That's a big no-no:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

And J&J is a viral vector vaccine, not a mRNA vaccine like Pfizer and Moderna

And from the CDC website

"Facts about COVID-19 Viral Vector Vaccines
They cannot give someone COVID-19 or other infections.

Viral vectors cannot cause infection with COVID-19 or with the virus used as the vaccine vector.
They do not affect or interact with our DNA in any way.

The genetic material delivered by the viral vector does not integrate into a person’s DNA."

Game, set, match----not that you ever had a chance:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

Nobody ever said the "viral vector" J&J vaccine can give you Covid.

But YOU said that it doesn't modify the host DNA. So please explain how a "viral vector" vaccine works, because the available descriptive materials that I've been able to find indicate that it works exactly the same as any other viral gene editing technique, to insert genes into the nuclear DNA.

And by the way, why do you think this is some sort of game to be won? This argument over forcing people to accept experimental vaccines strikes me as an issue with far reaching ramifications beyond just protecting people from a minor death risk. You're basically just saying "take the shot, you're too stupid to understand why". Rule by "experts" has turned out to be one of the most deadly ideas humans have ever come up with. It killed about 100 million people over last century.

Look, I have respectfully offered an opinion, and backed it up with facts, directly from the CDC. Are you unable to do that without the rudeness? It just makes you sound like the kind of egotistical know-it-all whose opinions normal people just ignore. It certainly doesn't help your argument.

[golfing eagles]

Nobody ever said the "viral vector" J&J vaccine can give you Covid.

But YOU said that it doesn't modify the host DNA. So please explain how a "viral vector" vaccine works, because the available descriptive materials that I've been able to find indicate that it works exactly the same as any other viral gene editing technique, to insert genes into the nuclear DNA.
Look, I have respectfully offered an opinion, and backed it up with facts, directly from the CDC. .

Please tell me you are not serious, please. The posts have gone from "gene manipulation" to now "inserting genes into DNA" Wow, it doesn't get any better than this. The "opinion expressed" has no factual basis whatsoever, much less from the CDC.

Yes, I said the vaccine does not modify host DNA in any way. The CDC also stated that, directly, in the excerpt from their website that I provided. If interested, they also have a little section on how viral vector vaccines work.

The best part, however, was the assertion that one set of posts was "respectful" and the other "rude". I can't think of anything more rude than posting a bunch of nonsense on this website that some poor person might read and believe

[Aces4]

Do I have the private personal and medical details of the 14,115 vaccinated individuals who were hospitalized through 7 September? Absolutely not and I am glad that private data has not been made public. The counts and the limited demographics that are available are sufficient.

Do you dispute that over 90% of the hospitalizations are in the unvaccinated? If not, do you have an explanation for that other than the effectiveness of the vaccines?



Sigh... it would help if you would read from the posts thoroughly. My discussion and point was that the vaccinated harbor and spread covid just as easily as the unvaccinated and anyone thinking otherwise was wrong. You do NOT have special powers to spare anyone from covid at this point even though you are vaccinated. We are all spreaders of covid at this point if we have it in our snouts and mouths, even though we may be unaffected.

[Aces4]

[QUOTE=Aces4;2001625]

However...........the fact remains that a large percentage (90%) of people who are hospitalized and dying are the UN-vaccinated. To me, this pandemic remains a pandemic of the UN-vaccinated.

Golfing Eagles is right, you need to straighten up your quotes and I’ll add your blind allegiance and read. The vaccinated and and unvaccinated are spreading covid. It’s a fact, my point again was, the vaccinated should not waltz around and believe they cannot spread covid. That’s not true!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

QUOTE=golfing eagles;2001680][QUOTE=coffeebean;2001679

How did my post and that , well, questionable response get merged into one in the post you quoted? I disavow any responsibility for that last sentence.

It happened because none of y'all can figure out how to post quotes, nest quotes, or post quote-trees. (Do you see what I did there?)

C'mon guy, you're a man of science, numbers. Do it for Murika! :a040::boxing2::popcorn:

[coffeebean]

Y'all need to learn how to quote posts on this forum.

GE most certainly knows how to use the QUOTE function yet many of these messed up quotes are his posts. What is going on??

[golfing eagles]

GE most certainly knows how to use the QUOTE function yet many of these messed up quotes are his posts. What is going on??

wish I knew. But it's not happening to the posts I quote, it's happening to others that are quoting my posts

[coffeebean]

[QUOTE=coffeebean;2001679]

How did my post and that , well, questionable response get merged into one in the post you quoted? I disavow any responsibility for that last sentence.

There have been a run of incorrect quotes going on in this thread. Who knows why this is happening? I think it may have started up-thread and is just snowballing.

[coffeebean]

Golfing Eagles is right, you need to straighten up your quotes and I’ll add your blind allegiance and read. The vaccinated and and unvaccinated are spreading covid. It’s a fact, my point again was, the vaccinated should not waltz around and believe they cannot spread covid. That’s not true!

Actually, it was OBB who said we all need to straighten out our quotes. LOL.

[coffeebean]

Golfing Eagles is right, you need to straighten up your quotes and I’ll add your blind allegiance and read. The vaccinated and and unvaccinated are spreading covid. It’s a fact, my point again was, the vaccinated should not waltz around and believe they cannot spread covid. That’s not true!

I never said the vaccinated are not spreading Covid. I know we vaccinated people are capable of spreading Covid, just not at the same rate as unvaccinated people spread the disease. Vaccinated people are not contagious for as long as un-vaccinated people are. Right there is one reason why vaccinated people do not spread Covid at the same rate as UN-vaccinated.

Also.....my statement pointed out that those who are hospitalized and dying are mostly UN-vaccinated people; as many as 90% are UN-vaccinated. THAT is the reason I feel this remains a pandemic of the UN-vaccinated.

[coffeebean]

It happened because none of y'all can figure out how to post quotes, nest quotes, or post quote-trees. (Do you see what I did there?)

C'mon guy, you're a man of science, numbers. Do it for Murika! :a040::boxing2::popcorn:

OBB........What is a quote tree?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Y'all need to learn how to quote posts on this forum.

GE most certainly knows how to use the QUOTE function yet many of these messed up quotes are his posts. What is going on??

The above is a quote tree.

It's posting a quote, that someone responded to, and quoting that response "in line." It's also known as nested quotes.

I'd show you the actual syntax, but the administration of this forum has disabled the [code] option.

[RICH1]

You talking to me?

[Aces4]

I never said the vaccinated are not spreading Covid. I know we vaccinated people are capable of spreading Covid, just not at the same rate as unvaccinated people spread the disease. Vaccinated people are not contagious for as long as un-vaccinated people are. Right there is one reason why vaccinated people do not spread Covid at the same rate as Unvaccinated.

Really, vaccinated are not contagious as long as the unvaccinated? When was that determination established seeing that anyone anytime can be reintroduced to covid 19 and carry it unwittingly in their noses and mouths to other people.

[Aces4]

Actually, it was OBB who said we all need to straighten out our quotes. LOL.

Actually, read post 149 where Golfing Eagles questioned your usage of a quote.

[RICH1]

Measles people , measles, Not Covid, Chicken pox, Richmond Statues, Round-a- bouts, speeding, shingles, or Racism... I enjoy ready the opinions but also Thank the true Medical Professionals, who Replied...God Bless us all!

[coffeebean]

The above is a quote tree.

It's posting a quote, that someone responded to, and quoting that response "in line." It's also known as nested quotes.

I'd show you the actual syntax, but the administration of this forum has disabled the [code] option.

I've not seen this before on this or any other forum I visit. Thanks.

[coffeebean]

Really, vaccinated are not contagious as long as the unvaccinated? When was that determination established seeing that anyone anytime can be reintroduced to covid 19 and carry it unwittingly in their noses and mouths to other people.

That is correct........

COVID transmission among vaccinated, unvaccinated. What experts say. (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/11/covid-transmission-among-vaccinated-unvaccinated-what-experts-say/5488398001/)

COVID-19 breakthrough cases: How contagious are you? | wusa9.com (https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/can-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people-spread-covid19-the-same/65-63870429-2e11-44bd-aa57-9ea8a23cb205)

[coffeebean]

Actually, read post 149 where Golfing Eagles questioned your usage of a quote.

I went back several pages to see where the QUOTE function got messed up (including post #149 by GE) and the messed up quoting snowballed for several postings.

It was jswirs in post #120 who messed up the whole process of the quote function on this thread. After that "mess up", the subsequent quoting by several posters continued to be totally messed up.

If you go back and check, post #159 got us back on track and there was no further "messed up" quotes. What I did was delete the second user name when I replied. I guess that is considered "nesting" but I'm not sure. I just remember having to remove one person's' user name who had not made that comment that I quoted.

Is that as clear as mud???? Anyway.....we are back on track with the quote function. Carry on.

[Aces4]

That is correct........

COVID transmission among vaccinated, unvaccinated. What experts say. (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/11/covid-transmission-among-vaccinated-unvaccinated-what-experts-say/5488398001/)

COVID-19 breakthrough cases: How contagious are you? | wusa9.com (https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/can-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people-spread-covid19-the-same/65-63870429-2e11-44bd-aa57-9ea8a23cb205)



I’m beginning to see why so many people don’t trust anything being put out by the experts anymore. I personally know of too many transmissions of this virus between vaccinated to know those statistics appear to be wonky. Is anyone tracking this information at all if the ill aren’t hospitalized?

[golfing eagles]

I’m beginning to see why so many people don’t trust anything being put out by the experts anymore. I personally know of too many transmissions of this virus between vaccinated to know those statistics appear to be wonky. Is anyone tracking this information at all if the ill aren’t hospitalized?

Let's examine that statement scientifically. You personally know........just how many----3,5,7 even 12? And you also KNOW it was vaccinated to vaccinated transmission? Even if that is true, there are hundreds of millions of persons vaccinated, so guess what statistically your personal sampling of a few means--------ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

[coffeebean]

I’m beginning to see why so many people don’t trust anything being put out by the experts anymore. I personally know of too many transmissions of this virus between vaccinated to know those statistics appear to be wonky. Is anyone tracking this information at all if the ill aren’t hospitalized?

Do you mean, ".......if the VACCINATED aren't hospitalized"? I think that is what you meant. Am I correct?

What is being tracked is the vaccinated who are hospitalized. Hospitalizations of the UN-vaccinated far far outnumber the vaccinated like 90% UN-vaccinated vs 10% vaccinated. UN-vaccinated people should seriously look at those stats and realize they need to do something to protect themselves. Either wear an N95 mask when out and about in public or get the vaccine. Seems easy enough.

[JMintzer]

Can you remember back in grade school getting shots for measles, mumps, chicken pox, pneumonia and polo etc?
Can you also recall there was no choice to get vaccinated like the covid19 shot today, everybody get the shot?

What changed??

You always had a choice...