Am I Crazy? NO, THEY ARE!

[n8xwb]

I read this early today ----

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) determined recently that America's founding documents may be "harmful or difficult" for some users to view since they reflect "outdated, biased, offensive, and possibly violent views and opinions."

[dewilson58]

Yes they iz.

[Ecuadog]

I'm thinkin' that the pendulum has gone quite far enough.

[John41]

I read this early today ----

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) determined recently that America's founding documents may be "harmful or difficult" for some users to view since they reflect "outdated, biased, offensive, and possibly violent views and opinions."

This woke craziness will peak as did the insanity of the French Revolution when the mob turned on each other in a killing frenzy.

[Stu from NYC]

sickening

[davem4616]

there are far too many loony-tunes running around out there...you learn from history...you don't try to cover it up, or try to judge it through the eyes of the present

IMHO, among the mistakes that we've made was giving every kid a trophy for just showing up, so that their fragile feelings wouldn't be scared at a young age

we have a generation of people that grew up in a bubble and now aren't able to accept reality

we also have a lot of people in academia that are very biased....and seem to preach their own bias vs teach the course content...
then when these kids graduate and they realize they weren't prepared for the real world, they whine and pout and decide they're not going to pay off their college loans

the country I grew up in no longer exists

[dewilson58]

there are far too many loony-tunes running around out there...

So true, made me laugh.

[Aces4]

I read this early today ----

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) determined recently that America's founding documents may be "harmful or difficult" for some users to view since they reflect "outdated, biased, offensive, and possibly violent views and opinions."


How do you think socialism gets a foothold without this diatribe?

[metoo21]

IMHO, among the mistakes that we've made was giving every kid a trophy for just showing up, so that their fragile feelings wouldn't be scared at a young age

we have a generation of people that grew up in a bubble and now aren't able to accept reality



Yep. Everyone is a winner!!

But seems they are too stupid to realize everything has scores. Sports, grades, employment reviews, etc.

[justjim]

I read this early today ----

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) determined recently that America's founding documents may be "harmful or difficult" for some users to view since they reflect "outdated, biased, offensive, and possibly violent views and opinions."

Why look at those records in the first place unless you were doing research? Most of us are way past that in our lives. I carried a pocket knife my Grandfather gave me to school for more than twelve years. Times have changed. Arguably for the better or worse depending on your point of view.

[Bucco]

Why look at those records in the first place unless you were doing research? Most of us are way past that in our lives. I carried a pocket knife my Grandfather gave me to school for more than twelve years. Times have changed. Arguably for the better or worse depending on your point of view.

While most of the posts on this thread have no idea of history and the motive for the thread and posts are of a nature that I find inexcusable, you make a valid point in many ways.

Times do change as you say, and keeping things in perspective and accurate to the times is important.

Few examples…..the swastika was a sign of good luck and fortune even used by US military in world WW1. It was hijacked by Hitler in the 30’s and now does not symbolize any good things at all.

Many of the changes made by the group hereby being accused, are to avoid political controversies or involvement. In order to preserve our history accurately AND in context with the times

There were actually court cases as recently as 2020 concerning photos that were blurred out to stay out of politics as they showed references that were distinctly politics.

YEP……looking at history requires context at every step. Without it, you are not reading history to understand things but for some other motive.

A serious researcher, that you mention, would appreciate really understanding our history

[manaboutown]

If these sick screwballs don't like it here let them move to Cuba, Venezuela or even Afghanistan.

[Bucco]

If these sick screwballs don't like it here let them move to Cuba, Venezuela or even Afghanistan.

Are you referring to The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) ???

[DAVES]

there are far too many loony-tunes running around out there...you learn from history...you don't try to cover it up, or try to judge it through the eyes of the present

IMHO, among the mistakes that we've made was giving every kid a trophy for just showing up, so that their fragile feelings wouldn't be scared at a young age

we have a generation of people that grew up in a bubble and now aren't able to accept reality

we also have a lot of people in academia that are very biased....and seem to preach their own bias vs teach the course content...
then when these kids graduate and they realize they weren't prepared for the real world, they whine and pout and decide they're not going to pay off their college loans

the country I grew up in no longer exists

"the country I grew up in no longer exists." I have movies that prove it never did exist.
We had some 16mm typical home movie kind of stuff that were taken by my uncle.
We never had a 16mm projector so I had never seen them. I was like 4 and my sister like 5. I recall eating those two stick ice pops and both may parents and my grandparents making me go back to pick up the trash that I had tossed. I assumed the streets were cleaner when we were kids. Well my movies show clearly trash blowing around the city streets.

I grew up POOR yet I had a solid family. Perhaps, the fault of my parents. I do not belong in our current world. I was taught if you need something, if you want something you work for it. Failure, simply was not an option to be considered.

[Laker14]

[QUOTE=n8xwb;2000921]I read this early today ----

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) determined recently that America's founding documents may be "harmful or difficult" for some users to view since they reflect "outdated, biased, offensive, and possibly violent views and opinions."[/QUOT

Here's a link to the NARA site, explaining further that statement.
NARA’s Statement on Potentially Harmful Content | National Archives (https://www.archives.gov/research/reparative-description/harmful-content)

I think what the site attempts to explain, at the top of the page, is that documents from the past, and subsequent archivists' descriptions of documents and events may contain language that, at the time, was accepted, but now is not.

As I read the page, I understand it to say that they are working to eliminate racist, and exclusionary or otherwise offensive language going forward, and providing insight as to the general attitudes of society at the time the historical documents were drafted and archived, but NOT to rewrite or change the original documents, or archivist's explanations as they were originally drafted.

I hope this is what they are saying and doing. It is important, in order to avoid repeating bad history, to know what it was, and not to whitewash it into what we wish it was, or what we would like to believe it was.

[Bucco]

[QUOTE=n8xwb;2000921]I read this early today ----

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) determined recently that America's founding documents may be "harmful or difficult" for some users to view since they reflect "outdated, biased, offensive, and possibly violent views and opinions."[/QUOT

Here's a link to the NARA site, explaining further that statement.
NARA’s Statement on Potentially Harmful Content | National Archives (https://www.archives.gov/research/reparative-description/harmful-content)

I think what the site attempts to explain, at the top of the page, is that documents from the past, and subsequent archivists' descriptions of documents and events may contain language that, at the time, was accepted, but now is not.

As I read the page, I understand it to say that they are working to eliminate racist, and exclusionary or otherwise offensive language going forward, and providing insight as to the general attitudes of society at the time the historical documents were drafted and archived, but NOT to rewrite or change the original documents, or archivist's explanations as they were originally drafted.

I hope this is what they are saying and doing. It is important, in order to avoid repeating bad history, to know what it was, and not to whitewash it into what we wish it was, or what we would like to believe it was.

Nothing being whitewashed in any way.

Their JOB is not to change the words but alert readers to the fact that words were written in a different time. And history MUST be read in context.

Won’t be around when it is finalized but will be “interesting” how this particular period is written about.

Recalling, as a retired historian, when the Tea Party adopted “Don’t tread on me” as a motto and a flag and how that attitude of anti government has grown in to what we have today.

[DAVES]

While most of the posts on this thread have no idea of history and the motive for the thread and posts are of a nature that I find inexcusable, you make a valid point in many ways.

Times do change as you say, and keeping things in perspective and accurate to the times is important.

Few examples…..the swastika was a sign of good luck and fortune even used by US military in world WW1. It was hijacked by Hitler in the 30’s and now does not symbolize any good things at all.

Many of the changes made by the group hereby being accused, are to avoid political controversies or involvement. In order to preserve our history accurately AND in context with the times

There were actually court cases as recently as 2020 concerning photos that were blurred out to stay out of politics as they showed references that were distinctly politics.

YEP……looking at history requires context at every step. Without it, you are not reading history to understand things but for some other motive.

A serious researcher, that you mention, would appreciate really understanding our history

Understanding our history? Few take the time to read history. Most of us have only the spun version of history fed to us by our school system. We think all of our current issues are new.

The Wright brothers, a lot of their writings have been preserved. Reminder the first powered flight was 1903. The press-they complained about reporters writing misinformation because they did not understand what they were saying. They complained about reporters copying the misinformation of other reporters as if it was their own work. They copied misinformation. People reading the same misinformation from several reporters thought wrong is right. Powered flight was a world competition.
The Wright brothers also complained about national bias. There is much to be learned for the past. We do not need to make the same mistakes all over again.

You see a sign WET PAINT. Some need to touch it to see that it is truly WET PAINT.
Some not only see the sign, but see someone with paint on their hands from the need to confirm reality. The person who sees the sign, sees the person with paint on their hands and then touches the paint-hum,no shortage of them either.

[blueash]

.you learn from history...you don't try to cover it up, or try to judge it through the eyes of the present... so that their fragile feelings wouldn't be scared at a young age



It is great to find that you support teaching real history, not white washed history. And that having children learn that there are some ugly facts in life, like loosing a soccer game or that white people systematically enslaved, raped, lynched and impoverished non-whites as a founding principle of this nation needs to be taught even if it makes a white person feel the sads.

[Bucco]

Understanding our history? Few take the time to read history. Most of us have only the spun version of history fed to us by our school system. We think all of our current issues are new.

The Wright brothers, a lot of their writings have been preserved. Reminder the first powered flight was 1903. The press-they complained about reporters writing misinformation because they did not understand what they were saying. They complained about reporters copying the misinformation of other reporters as if it was their own work. They copied misinformation. People reading the same misinformation from several reporters thought wrong is right. Powered flight was a world competition.
The Wright brothers also complained about national bias. There is much to be learned for the past. We do not need to make the same mistakes all over again.

You see a sign WET PAINT. Some need to touch it to see that it is truly WET PAINT.
Some not only see the sign, but see someone with paint on their hands from the need to confirm reality. The person who sees the sign, sees the person with paint on their hands and then touches the paint-hum,no shortage of them either.

The one thing for certain in your post that I will totally agree with is how we need REALITY in this life.

Wonder how history will treat the social media type who have no desire nor need for reality but only search for the fantasy being fed that best serves their hunger.

Reality is not easy to accept sometimes….we seem to only understand power, and if we reject anything that does not allow us power over something.

Recent threads and history have shown so many NON REALITY words based on looking, NOT for reality and truth but to satisfy whatever drives the acceptance of lies and untruths. If you must search for lies to make your points then I don’t think you have a point to make.

We are a country founded on certain principles. We are running away from them and they are a good solid base on which to build. We changed our motto from “one from many” to “In God we trust”, yet we seem to shy away from both of them.

[DAVES]

[QUOTE=Laker14;2001002]

Nothing being whitewashed in any way.

Their JOB is not to change the words but alert readers to the fact that words were written in a different time. And history MUST be read in context.

Won’t be around when it is finalized but will be “interesting” how this particular period is written about.

Recalling, as a retired historian, when the Tea Party adopted “Don’t tread on me” as a motto and a flag and how that attitude of anti government has grown in to what we have today.

Nothing is being whitewashed? History IS being spun. Statues are being removed, damaged by mindless MOBS. Books are being removed form school libraries.

The Tea Party adopted, "Don't tread on me," as a motto. It would take a book to reply.
History. The Tea Party of Boston was not as simple as taught in school. A tax on tea.
While they did not yet know about germs they knew that you could not safely drink the water in the cities without getting sick. Then as now you need water to live. People drank liquor as the alcohol killed germs. I expect the heroes to me, who wrote the declaration of independence, the constitution etc had a buzz on when they did it.
As to tea, since you boiled the water, that too would bill the germs.

The destruction of the British tea screaming about taxes, was organized by Alexander Hamilton a bit of a scoundrel turned into a hero by history. Hamilton had a warehouse full of tea and he would have been financially ruined by the British tea.

We think, we are indoctrinated as if scoundrels have just been invented.

[Laker14]

[QUOTE=Laker14;2001002]

Nothing being whitewashed in any way.

Their JOB is not to change the words but alert readers to the fact that words were written in a different time. And history MUST be read in context.

Won’t be around when it is finalized but will be “interesting” how this particular period is written about.

Recalling, as a retired historian, when the Tea Party adopted “Don’t tread on me” as a motto and a flag and how that attitude of anti government has grown in to what we have today.

[QUOTE=Bucco;2001008]

Nothing is being whitewashed? History IS being spun. Statues are being removed, damaged by mindless MOBS. Books are being removed form school libraries.

The Tea Party adopted, "Don't tread on me," as a motto. It would take a book to reply.
History. The Tea Party of Boston was not as simple as taught in school. A tax on tea.
While they did not yet know about germs they knew that you could not safely drink the water in the cities without getting sick. Then as now you need water to live. People drank liquor as the alcohol killed germs. I expect the heroes to me, who wrote the declaration of independence, the constitution etc had a buzz on when they did it.
As to tea, since you boiled the water, that too would bill the germs.

The destruction of the British tea screaming about taxes, was organized by Alexander Hamilton a bit of a scoundrel turned into a hero by history. Hamilton had a warehouse full of tea and he would have been financially ruined by the British tea.

We think, we are indoctrinated as if scoundrels have just been invented.

Whoah Nellie!! that's not my post being quoted as my post! I never said that or anything like that. My post was directing the thread via a link to the NARA site, putting the statement into proper context.

[DAVES]

The one thing for certain in your post that I will totally agree with is how we need REALITY in this life.

Wonder how history will treat the social media type who have no desire nor need for reality but only search for the fantasy being fed that best serves their hunger.

Reality is not easy to accept sometimes….we seem to only understand power, and if we reject anything that does not allow us power over something.

Recent threads and history have shown so many NON REALITY words based on looking, NOT for reality and truth but to satisfy whatever drives the acceptance of lies and untruths. If you must search for lies to make your points then I don’t think you have a point to make.

We are a country founded on certain principles. We are running away from them and they are a good solid base on which to build. We changed our motto from “one from many” to “In God we trust”, yet we seem to shy away from both of them.

They are powerful words and easily, constantly SPUN. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Powerful words BUT, what is life, life worth living, what is liberty, what is happiness? "In god we trust." A solid base? The first amendment prevents a state religion. "One from many." What does that mean? One nation from many states? One nation from many individuals? What is the cost to the individual?

[DAVES]

[QUOTE=Bucco;2001008]

[QUOTE=DAVES;2001021]

Whoah Nellie!! that's not my post being quoted as my post! I never said that or anything like that. My post was directing the thread via a link to the NARA site, putting the statement into proper context.

This system gets a bit confusing the post immediately above yours says Bucco, it was posted by me DAVES. ????? Perhaps the same is true of the first one.

[DAVES]

It is great to find that you support teaching real history, not white washed history. And that having children learn that there are some ugly facts in life, like loosing a soccer game or that white people systematically enslaved, raped, lynched and impoverished non-whites as a founding principle of this nation needs to be taught even if it makes a white person feel the sads.

It would take books to properly reply. Real history? History is interesting only when you actually read it. "White people systematically enslaved, raped, lynched and impoverished non-whites as a founding principle of this nation needs to be taught even if it makes a white person feel the sads."

REALITY as I see it. First of all you accept two different sets of rules to produce your views. Our legal system, you are not guilty of crimes committed by your ancestors.
My great, great great grandfather was a general on the Northern side of the civil war.
My mother's side of the family arrived in about 1913. Black slavery ended in 1865.
The RACE CARD. You could find excuses to pay reparations to most groups. The Chinese were welcomed in to build the railroads, many died doing it and were prevented from doing other jobs, the Irish were brought over as indentured servants-essentially slaves for 14 years. Later jobs could be posted with note Irish need not apply. Jews?

I am WHITE. I am not sad. I am tired of the indoctrinated HATE being used to gain political power. I HAVE NO GUILT OR REASON TO FEEL GUILTY. In terms of equality under the law. Do try to explain why a black only business is fine for you but a white only business is not.

[Bucco]

It would take books to properly reply. Real history? History is interesting only when you actually read it. "White people systematically enslaved, raped, lynched and impoverished non-whites as a founding principle of this nation needs to be taught even if it makes a white person feel the sads."

REALITY as I see it. First of all you accept two different sets of rules to produce your views. Our legal system, you are not guilty of crimes committed by your ancestors.
My great, great great grandfather was a general on the Northern side of the civil war.
My mother's side of the family arrived in about 1913. Black slavery ended in 1865.
The RACE CARD. You could find excuses to pay reparations to most groups. The Chinese were welcomed in to build the railroads, many died doing it and were prevented from doing other jobs, the Irish were brought over as indentured servants-essentially slaves for 14 years. Later jobs could be posted with note Irish need not apply. Jews?

I am WHITE. I am not sad. I am tired of the indoctrinated HATE being used to gain political power. I HAVE NO GUILT OR REASON TO FEEL GUILTY. In terms of equality under the law. Do try to explain why a black only business is fine for you but a white only business is not.

To your post


“I am tired of the indoctrinated HATE being used to gain political power.”

I agree wholeheartedly. It is sad.

[sail33or]

I just attended a retreat with very experienced, very educated, very accomplished people (all retired).

The purpose of the retreat was form a support group and try and put together an understanding of todays issues.

A very simple answer emerged.

Younger generations determine goals and future desires. We served this ideal with freedom and prosperity. "THEY" want what they have been taught by their cell phones. It is a form of Communism but you can invent a new word for it if you want. WE are going exactly where "THEY" want. We will have a front row seat to what we know is coming.

[Bucco]

I just attended a retreat with very experienced, very educated, very accomplished people (all retired).

The purpose of the retreat was form a support group and try and put together an understanding of todays issues.

A very simple answer emerged.

Younger generations determine goals and future desires. We served this ideal with freedom and prosperity. "THEY" want what they have been taught by their cell phones. It is a form of Communism but you can invent a new word for it if you want. WE are going exactly where "THEY" want. We will have a front row seat to what we know is coming.

I would sincerely love to know the “sponsorship” of this group.

I am always amazed at how...it’s always someone else’s fault, and how that’s arrived at. We don’t lose, we get robbed....we don’t hate, we are defending...always someone or somebody else’s fault.

I learned that listening to the young was pretty darn smart as a general rule.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

The country that doesn’t exist anymore could that be the one where my father was screamed at and called a communist by Joe McCarthy for being a labor activist around the country in the 30’S and fighting in Spain against Franco or the segregated America where civil rights workers were beaten and killed or the one that drafted kids to feed into the fire of a war our leaders knew we couldn’t win ( and before you jump I was there many years) or the country where woman’s place was in the home . THAT COUNTRY

[GoPacers]

There is nothing wrong with what NARA wrote. They simply have a disclaimer that protects them against frivolous claims from all sources of miscreants.

It is oftentimes us who should be ashamed of how we take things out of context and selectively quote things that we perceive to support our views. The exact things that we lambaste others (like the MSM) for doing.

[stanley]

I read this early today ----

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) determined recently that America's founding documents may be "harmful or difficult" for some users to view since they reflect "outdated, biased, offensive, and possibly violent views and opinions."

Not on the Founding Documents (The Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, The Bill of Rights) alone, but on the archived material as a whole amassed during the history of the United States.
For instance The American Revolution, The Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, etc............ pretty candid and gory stuff.
I think you can take it as a PG13 rating as in the movies. Do I have a problem with it? No. But if they try to change, and rewrite history and pander to the pansies, then I have a problem with it (ie... the removal and destruction of statues)

[Bucco]

Not on the Founding Documents (The Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, The Bill of Rights) alone, but on the archived material as a whole amassed during the history of the United States.
For instance The American Revolution, The Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, etc............ pretty candid and gory stuff.
I think you can take it as a PG13 rating as in the movies. Do I have a problem with it? No. But if they try to change, and rewrite history and pander to the pansies, then I have a problem with it (ie... the removal and destruction of statues)

It certainly, if you read, applies to all United States history, as I noted in the controversy in 2016 where revisions were made first to stay away from politics, then subsequently to add some of what was revised to assure accuracy.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

It would take books to properly reply. Real history? History is interesting only when you actually read it. "White people systematically enslaved, raped, lynched and impoverished non-whites as a founding principle of this nation needs to be taught even if it makes a white person feel the sads."

REALITY as I see it. First of all you accept two different sets of rules to produce your views. Our legal system, you are not guilty of crimes committed by your ancestors.
My great, great great grandfather was a general on the Northern side of the civil war.
My mother's side of the family arrived in about 1913. Black slavery ended in 1865.
The RACE CARD. You could find excuses to pay reparations to most groups. The Chinese were welcomed in to build the railroads, many died doing it and were prevented from doing other jobs, the Irish were brought over as indentured servants-essentially slaves for 14 years. Later jobs could be posted with note Irish need not apply. Jews?

I am WHITE. I am not sad. I am tired of the indoctrinated HATE being used to gain political power. I HAVE NO GUILT OR REASON TO FEEL GUILTY. In terms of equality under the law. Do try to explain why a black only business is fine for you but a white only business is not.
But Jim Crow laws took over and lasted 100 years and while they got somewhat milder as the years went by they still kept much of a specific race in check

[Bucco]

The country that doesn’t exist anymore could that be the one where my father was screamed at and called a communist by Joe McCarthy for being a labor activist around the country in the 30’S and fighting in Spain against Franco or the segregated America where civil rights workers were beaten and killed or the one that drafted kids to feed into the fire of a war our leaders knew we couldn’t win ( and before you jump I was there many years) or the country where woman’s place was in the home . THAT COUNTRY

Your mention of Joe McCarthy harks back to another era of hate mongering and totally false accusations. Everyone was called a communist if 1} they disagreed with him or 2)He decided that a vendetta was needed against someone.

He ruined many many lives with his rhetoric and false allegations. I recall as child asking lots of questions about “communists” and learning that McCarthy had no idea of what a communist even was. Hope your father was able to keep his head with all the phoney and false allegations that surely must have followed

"McCarthyism is Americanism with its sleeves rolled," McCarthy said in a 1952 speech, and later that year, he published a book titled McCarthyism: The Fight For America.“. Ring famaliar

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Yes he was able to keep his head , McCarthy had him thrown out of the National Union but he kept his iron workers Union card he did have a lot of resentment because of the the many lives destroyed by one man., I hear they still honor his memory in his home town .

[Neils]

Racists come in all colors. Usually with an agenda too.

[DAVES]

But Jim Crow laws took over and lasted 100 years and while they got somewhat milder as the years went by they still kept much of a specific race in check

Truly not sure what that has to do with what I said. Nothing is ever as simple as I am right and they are wrong. The start of racism is when you/we accept black vs white. Semantics? "A specific race."

Truly simple REALITY. i am not guilty. My family is not guilty. AND I DO NOT HAVE ANY WHITE GUILT.

The RACE CARD? It is like you tap a liberal on the knee and out comes THE RACE CARD.

[DAVES]

Your mention of Joe McCarthy harks back to another era of hate mongering and totally false accusations. Everyone was called a communist if 1} they disagreed with him or 2)He decided that a vendetta was needed against someone.

He ruined many many lives with his rhetoric and false allegations. I recall as child asking lots of questions about “communists” and learning that McCarthy had no idea of what a communist even was. Hope your father was able to keep his head with all the phoney and false allegations that surely must have followed

"McCarthyism is Americanism with its sleeves rolled," McCarthy said in a 1952 speech, and later that year, he published a book titled McCarthyism: The Fight For America.“. Ring famaliar

There are few people that will stand up to a mob. Hitler used the powerful yet MINDLESS emotion of HATE to rise to power. Other than for the fact that COMMUNISM simply does not work there is nothing wrong with any thought. Truly simple REALITY.
You will work harder for yourself and your family than you will for your comrade. In so doing you will also produce for the entire population.

Carl Marx wrote an essay in which he said communism will not overpower capitalism in a war. Rather it will be welcomed into our schools. As far as communism, socialism and capitalism none of them exist in textbook form.

Parasites exist in nature. They weaken the host. When you have too many parasites they first slow down the host. If, they get beyond a certain number they kill the host and thus kill not only the host but themselves. Libs, would they ever say we have gotten enough. Simple REALITY-no.

[Timothyimitchell]

I'm thinkin' that the pendulum has gone quite far enough.

Don't wanna rile up the wrong folk. Getting pretty upset.

[eremite06]

Bring back better.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

You said slavery was over in 1865 please read up on Jim Crow laws and see that it didn’t change much

[Bucco]

There are few people that will stand up to a mob. Hitler used the powerful yet MINDLESS emotion of HATE to rise to power. Other than for the fact that COMMUNISM simply does not work there is nothing wrong with any thought. Truly simple REALITY.
You will work harder for yourself and your family than you will for your comrade. In so doing you will also produce for the entire population.

Carl Marx wrote an essay in which he said communism will not overpower capitalism in a war. Rather it will be welcomed into our schools. As far as communism, socialism and capitalism none of them exist in textbook form.

Parasites exist in nature. They weaken the host. When you have too many parasites they first slow down the host. If, they get beyond a certain number they kill the host and thus kill not only the host but themselves. Libs, would they ever say we have gotten enough. Simple REALITY-no.

I believe you totally misunderstood my post. It was not a comparison of systems in any way. It was about a man who used the word to accuse anyone who disagreed with him and in that course destroyed human beings..

If you agree with false accusations and personal attacks, then you might like McCarthy. I say he was using pure hate, by any name, to intimidate.

Comparing a completely dead and obsolete system to anything is folly, and simply using McCarthyism is avoiding the subject.

Why you went on about this dead system is well beyond me.

I just want to add for clarification, since a discussion of communism seems important to you. Not dead as I said, but I think only “alive” in 4 places.

I think anyone who lived through the McCarthy era where hate a accusation is aware of how terrible that was for our country. Your seemingly defense of it, even though it was based on lies, and falsehoods seems to be the thrust of your post.

[Topspinmo]

The country that doesn’t exist anymore could that be the one where my father was screamed at and called a communist by Joe McCarthy for being a labor activist around the country in the 30’S and fighting in Spain against Franco or the segregated America where civil rights workers were beaten and killed or the one that drafted kids to feed into the fire of a war our leaders knew we couldn’t win ( and before you jump I was there many years) or the country where woman’s place was in the home . THAT COUNTRY

So, if you didn’t like that country why didn’t you stay in the other countries? Pawns of any race don’t control how country run. They just make all the sacrifice’s. The rich NO matter what nationality NEVER sacrifice.

[Eg_cruz]

I read this early today ----

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) determined recently that America's founding documents may be "harmful or difficult" for some users to view since they reflect "outdated, biased, offensive, and possibly violent views and opinions."
Smh…….I worry about our nation

[Two Bills]

What's the problem?
Us oldies are history.
Our kids and grand kids are running the circus these days.
They will live and die by their decisions, just as we and our forefathers did.
As far as my parents were concerned, and they lived through two world wars, Rock and Roll was the cause of all the problems!

[jswirs]

[QUOTE=davem4616;2000949]there are far too many loony-tunes running around out there...you learn from history...you don't try to cover it up, or try to judge it through the eyes of the present

IMHO, among the mistakes that we've made was giving every kid a trophy for just showing up, so that their fragile feelings wouldn't be scared at a young age

we have a generation of people that grew up in a bubble and now aren't able to accept reality

we also have a lot of people in academia that are very biased....and seem to preach their own bias vs teach the course content...
then when these kids graduate and they realize they weren't prepared for the real world, they whine and pout and decide they're not going to pay off their college loans

the country I grew up in no longer exists
I agree with this post.
Compared to growing up in the 50's, the most obvious difference today, as I see it, is the lack of personal responsibility (It's not my fault I failed, it was my parents, the school system, I was bullied etc, etc.) AND a diminishing work ethic.

[nick demis]

[QUOTE=davem4616;2000949]there are far too many loony-tunes running around out there...you learn from history...you don't try to cover it up, or try to judge it through the eyes of the present

Wasn't it great when the "looney-tunes" was the cartoons on Saturday morning?

[Laker14]

Speaking of Looney Tunes, it's just about time for a "That's All Folks!" for this thread.

[WindyCityzen]

What’s your source for this inflammatory “statement?” Do you believe all the stuff posted to rile you up and keep you controlled?

[MandoMan]

[QUOTE=n8xwb;2000921]I read this early today ----

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) determined recently that America's founding documents may be "harmful or difficult" for some users to view since they reflect "outdated, biased, offensive, and possibly violent views and opinions."[/QUOT

Here's a link to the NARA site, explaining further that statement.
NARA’s Statement on Potentially Harmful Content | National Archives (https://www.archives.gov/research/reparative-description/harmful-content)

I think what the site attempts to explain, at the top of the page, is that documents from the past, and subsequent archivists' descriptions of documents and events may contain language that, at the time, was accepted, but now is not.

As I read the page, I understand it to say that they are working to eliminate racist, and exclusionary or otherwise offensive language going forward, and providing insight as to the general attitudes of society at the time the historical documents were drafted and archived, but NOT to rewrite or change the original documents, or archivist's explanations as they were originally drafted.

I hope this is what they are saying and doing. It is important, in order to avoid repeating bad history, to know what it was, and not to whitewash it into what we wish it was, or what we would like to believe it was.

Thank you for that. The Original Poster seems to have completely misunderstood the web site, which is explaining why the records wii NOT be changed but will continue to offend some people today. Hooray for that! I’m sick and tired of people trying to erase people from history because they were people of their times. (For example, a couple years ago I visited Monticello and was astonished to find that Jefferson’s political career was barely mentioned. Instead, I was given the idea that the most important thing about him was that didn’t free his “enslaved persons” or had them.)

Here’s what the site actually says:
“ What harmful or difficult content may be found in the National Archives Catalog and our web pages?

Some items may:
reflect racist, sexist, ableist, misogynistic/misogynoir, and xenophobic opinions and attitudes;
be discriminatory towards or exclude diverse views on sexuality, gender, religion, and more;
include graphic content of historical events such as violent death, medical procedures, crime, wars/terrorist acts, natural disasters and more;
demonstrate bias and exclusion in institutional collecting and digitization policies.

Why does the National Archives make potentially harmful content available?

NARA’s mission is to preserve and provide access to the permanent records of the federal government. NARA, working in conjunction with diverse communities, will seek to balance the preservation of this history with sensitivity to how these materials are presented to and perceived by users.”

So they aren’t rewriting it, but trying to present it in a way that will avoid complaints. That makes sense.

[Bay Kid]

They still need their pacifier.

[Laker14]

If you think about it, the original archivists, by using the language of the day, reflect the attitudes of the day in their explanations of the laws and events they seek to shed light on, and by so doing, create yet another historical waypoint, to be further examined and explained in the light of more current sensibilities. The process never ends, nor should it, as long as we acknowledge the original attitudes, and don't try to pretend they never existed.

[Lindaws]

CRT at its best. That’s why statues coming down . Wipe out our history.

[chuckpedrey]

Glenn Beck did a piece on that issue yesterday. He reported that a few believe that the documents are too “offensive” to some and therefore should be replaced.
Come quickly Lord Jesus

[camaguey48]

Glenn Beck did a piece on that issue yesterday. He reported that a few believe that the documents are too “offensive” to some and therefore should be replaced.
Come quickly Lord Jesus
Shame on this mess!

[ithos]

It is great to find that you support teaching real history, not white washed history. And that having children learn that there are some ugly facts in life, like loosing a soccer game or that white people systematically enslaved, raped, lynched and impoverished non-whites as a founding principle of this nation needs to be taught even if it makes a white person feel the sads.

Your presentism approach to history conveniently ignores the profound impact that our founding principles had on the course of human kind. The type of inequities you describe had existed for several millennia throughout the world.

Our children should learn the good, bad and the ugly. But many only want to highlight the negative because what they truly despise is the rights enshrined in our Constitution that severely limits the power of our government.

Have you ever taken a moment and pondered on why billions of "people of color" dream of settling in the US? It is because the values of our founding took root and help eliminate the injustices that you obsess over not only in our country but in many others.

America isn't perfect. But the principles we hold dear are perfect. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that even on our worst day, we are blessed to live in America.

Nikki Haley

[Ptmckiou]

CRT at its best. That’s why statues coming down . Wipe out our history.

Removing the idolatry and glorifying of traitors of our country is not rewriting history. It’s just appropriate. You don’t go to Germany and see glorifying statues in parks of Nazi generals. Allowing glorification of traitors that wanted to take over our country has allowed the “participation award” to the loser mindset to develop. It was the ultimate participation award of our past.

[KRMACK55]

there are far too many loony-tunes running around out there...you learn from history...you don't try to cover it up, or try to judge it through the eyes of the present

IMHO, among the mistakes that we've made was giving every kid a trophy for just showing up, so that their fragile feelings wouldn't be scared at a young age

we have a generation of people that grew up in a bubble and now aren't able to accept reality

we also have a lot of people in academia that are very biased....and seem to preach their own bias vs teach the course content...
then when these kids graduate and they realize they weren't prepared for the real world, they whine and pout and decide they're not going to pay off their college loans

the country I grew up in no longer exists
Thank you so much for that summary.

[Heyitsrick]

Yes he was able to keep his head , McCarthy had him thrown out of the National Union but he kept his iron workers Union card he did have a lot of resentment because of the the many lives destroyed by one man., I hear they still honor his memory in his home town .

There was an interesting column written about McCarthy - but much more broadly about whether anything McCarthy was trumpeting at the time had any truth to it insofar as the left side of politics was concerned. It was written in the Washington Post in 1996 by the late Nicholas von Hoffman, and titled "Was McCarthy right about the left?"

von Hoffman was no friend of right-wingers, and he wrote what he believed. His words ended up getting him fired from CBS's 60 Minutes, actually, when he referred to Nixon as "a dead mouse on the kitchen floor that everyone was afraid to touch and throw in the garbage.”

von Hoffman was a community organizer for Saul Alinksy in the early 60's. von Hoffman was a left-winger, to be sure.

OK, back to the column -

von Hoffman found nothing redeeming in McCarthy's behavior. Here's how he characterized him:


McCarthy, as his subsequent history would show, knew little about communism, on this side of the ocean or the other. This loutish, duplicitous bully, who carried, not the names of Reds but bottles of hootch in his briefcase died in disgrace and of alcoholism.

There is a "but..." here, though. The next passage from von Hoffman reads this way:


Yet, in a global sense McCarthy was on to something. McCarthy may have exaggerated the scope of the problem but not by much. The government was the workplace of perhaps 100 communist agents in 1943-45. He just didn't know their names.

Last summary:


An adequate history of the McCarthy/Truman period, one that gives proper attention to the class, ethnic, religious and cultural antagonisms of those times, has not yet been written. But enough new information has come to light about the communists in the U.S. government that we may now say that point by point Joe McCarthy got it all wrong and yet was still closer to the truth than those who ridiculed him.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1996/04/14/was-mccarthy-right-about-the-left/a0dc6726-e2fd-4a31-bcdd-5f352acbf5de/

[Luggage]

Kind of like removing a Confederate statue in Lake county because some people are offended.

[Luggage]

Kind of like the movie ratings we have today. It's simply a warning and if you're offended don't enter and read, just like this blog. I am amazed at the people that simply won't accept that there are other opinions in the world than theirs

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

There was an interesting column written about McCarthy - but much more broadly about whether anything McCarthy was trumpeting at the time had any truth to it insofar as the left side of politics was concerned. It was written in the Washington Post in 1996 by the late Nicholas von Hoffman, and titled "Was McCarthy right about the left?"

von Hoffman was no friend of right-wingers, and he wrote what he believed. His words ended up getting him fired from CBS's 60 Minutes, actually, when he referred to Nixon as "a dead mouse on the kitchen floor that everyone was afraid to touch and throw in the garbage.”

von Hoffman was a community organizer for Saul Alinksy in the early 60's. von Hoffman was a left-winger, to be sure.

OK, back to the column -

von Hoffman found nothing redeeming in McCarthy's behavior. Here's how he characterized him:



There is a "but..." here, though. The next passage from von Hoffman reads this way:



Last summary:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1996/04/14/was-mccarthy-right-about-the-left/a0dc6726-e2fd-4a31-bcdd-5f352acbf5de/ to help make McCarthy out to have any redeeming values is unbelievable . That’s like saying hitler built nice highways or Mussolini made the trains run on time , of course there were communist but painting a brush so wide and destroying so many lives of people could never justify his actions

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

So, if you didn’t like that country why didn’t you stay in the other countries? Pawns of any race don’t control how country run. They just make all the sacrifice’s. The rich NO matter what nationality NEVER sacrifice. what your talking about

[irishwonone]

Agree. NUTS!

[brfree1411@aol.com]

All this nutty talk about things being offensive is not fair. Some of us are offended by the people that are offended with our American Documents from our forefathers. We are equally offended by not being able to celebrate the holidays we grew up with. Why is it that "we" have to give up our liberties because others are offended? I am terribly offended by this !!

[jjombrello]

Very sick, however some of the younger generation probably couldn't read them as they are written in cursive.

[Bucco]

All this nutty talk about things being offensive is not fair. Some of us are offended by the people that are offended with our American Documents from our forefathers. We are equally offended by not being able to celebrate the holidays we grew up with. Why is it that "we" have to give up our liberties because others are offended? I am terribly offended by this !!

I heard, read or saw anyone say what you just said.

NOBODY is offended by our American documents, but for a country based on honor and truth and full of folks who want us to stay true, if is offensive to omit any part of our history.


Not sure what holidays you are speaking of, but you sound more offended by our country than any others.

Oh and exactly what liberties have you given up because having our history accurate and true is important to others ???

[jimjamuser]

This woke craziness will peak as did the insanity of the French Revolution when the mob turned on each other in a killing frenzy.
I was taught in history class that the French Revolution was about the lower and middle classes overthrowing the upper class that had oppressed them and took away their FREEDOM. I believe that some Marie lady angered them by saying, "Let them eat cake". And some massive, sharp object was a non-digital solution. I hope I got that correct.

[jimjamuser]

sickening
That seems IMO to be ambiguous. It could apply to both sides of ANY argument.

[Jaydancer]

"the country I grew up in no longer exists." I have movies that prove it never did exist.
We had some 16mm typical home movie kind of stuff that were taken by my uncle.
We never had a 16mm projector so I had never seen them. I was like 4 and my sister like 5. I recall eating those two stick ice pops and both may parents and my grandparents making me go back to pick up the trash that I had tossed. I assumed the streets were cleaner when we were kids. Well my movies show clearly trash blowing around the city streets.

I grew up POOR yet I had a solid family. Perhaps, the fault of my parents. I do not belong in our current world. I was taught if you need something, if you want something you work for it. Failure, simply was not an option to be considered.
Very well said Sir! If we keep this up we shall go back to the Romans, who kept slaves, and threw people to the lions for entertainment, and anyone with Italian in their family tree will have to watch out!

[jimjamuser]

Why look at those records in the first place unless you were doing research? Most of us are way past that in our lives. I carried a pocket knife my Grandfather gave me to school for more than twelve years. Times have changed. Arguably for the better or worse depending on your point of view.
Times have ALWAYS changed since before the stone age or when time was indicated on a sundial. One does NOT have to argue about whether times are better or worse. One can look up the US position on world lists of "quality of life" and other universal qualities. Then, look at the US position (in the top 10) after WW2 and then today ( around 30 th). That is about as definitive and mathematical and black and white of a measure - as can be HUMANLY arrived at.

[jimjamuser]

If these sick screwballs don't like it here let them move to Cuba, Venezuela or even Afghanistan.
Group A might think that group B are screwballs. But, just as likely - group B thinks that group A ARE the screwballs. It is only just tribal anthropology at play.

[Tomptomp]

In Mark Lavin’s book American Marxism he explains that out economy and our history must be destroyed in order to create the socialist society they want.
What is posted is another attempt ( by the woke , not the author of the post ) to erase our history.

[jimjamuser]

[QUOTE=Bucco;2001008]

Nothing is being whitewashed? History IS being spun. Statues are being removed, damaged by mindless MOBS. Books are being removed form school libraries.

The Tea Party adopted, "Don't tread on me," as a motto. It would take a book to reply.
History. The Tea Party of Boston was not as simple as taught in school. A tax on tea.
While they did not yet know about germs they knew that you could not safely drink the water in the cities without getting sick. Then as now you need water to live. People drank liquor as the alcohol killed germs. I expect the heroes to me, who wrote the declaration of independence, the constitution etc had a buzz on when they did it.
As to tea, since you boiled the water, that too would bill the germs.

The destruction of the British tea screaming about taxes, was organized by Alexander Hamilton a bit of a scoundrel turned into a hero by history. Hamilton had a warehouse full of tea and he would have been financially ruined by the British tea.

We think, we are indoctrinated as if scoundrels have just been invented.
If I take from that the good part about boiling tea killing germs - I see a situation where if the Native Americans along the Atlantic coast had ONLY drunk tea ( or alcohol )instead of smoking whatever ( in a Peace Pipe), then there would have been so many more Natives around that the white colonists could not fight them. The 2 groups would have had to have diplomatic relations and BOTH would then prosper. I also remember that the early Spaniards brought measles or some other disease with them even before the English Colonists. Too bad that Spaniards and Native Americans did not drink something that needed boiling? There seems like there would be MORE to both those stories???????

[jimjamuser]

I just attended a retreat with very experienced, very educated, very accomplished people (all retired).

The purpose of the retreat was form a support group and try and put together an understanding of todays issues.

A very simple answer emerged.

Younger generations determine goals and future desires. We served this ideal with freedom and prosperity. "THEY" want what they have been taught by their cell phones. It is a form of Communism but you can invent a new word for it if you want. WE are going exactly where "THEY" want. We will have a front row seat to what we know is coming.
I doubt that cell phones spawn Communism. Facebook has an algorithm that pushes people from the ideal middle to the extreme right and left - probably out of pure greed for money and not anything idealistic.

[Heyitsrick]

to help make McCarthy out to have any redeeming values is unbelievable . That’s like saying hitler built nice highways or Mussolini made the trains run on time , of course there were communist but painting a brush so wide and destroying so many lives of people could never justify his actions

Of course, no clear reading of my post would suggest anyone was justifying McCarthy's actions. I shouldn't have to say as much, but I'm certainly not. And neither was von Hoffman, the columnist.

What the columnist was saying is that McCarthy - almost in spite of himself - was closer to being right about the degree to which communists existed in government than wrong, given what we know today. That doesn't make McCarthy innocent of anything. He should always be judged on his behavior, and to my knowledge nothing has changed in that regard.

[jimjamuser]

The country that doesn’t exist anymore could that be the one where my father was screamed at and called a communist by Joe McCarthy for being a labor activist around the country in the 30’S and fighting in Spain against Franco or the segregated America where civil rights workers were beaten and killed or the one that drafted kids to feed into the fire of a war our leaders knew we couldn’t win ( and before you jump I was there many years) or the country where woman’s place was in the home . THAT COUNTRY
I agree with the contents of this post. From he who has "walked the walk".

[Velvet]

I read this early today ----

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) determined recently that America's founding documents may be "harmful or difficult" for some users to view since they reflect "outdated, biased, offensive, and possibly violent views and opinions."

Then perhaps those people shouldn’t look at it. I feel the same way about porn so I don’t go looking for it.

[jimjamuser]

There are few people that will stand up to a mob. Hitler used the powerful yet MINDLESS emotion of HATE to rise to power. Other than for the fact that COMMUNISM simply does not work there is nothing wrong with any thought. Truly simple REALITY.
You will work harder for yourself and your family than you will for your comrade. In so doing you will also produce for the entire population.

Carl Marx wrote an essay in which he said communism will not overpower capitalism in a war. Rather it will be welcomed into our schools. As far as communism, socialism and capitalism none of them exist in textbook form.

Parasites exist in nature. They weaken the host. When you have too many parasites they first slow down the host. If, they get beyond a certain number they kill the host and thus kill not only the host but themselves. Libs, would they ever say we have gotten enough. Simple REALITY-no.
I was good with that content, until the last 2 sentences. The conclusion seemed (?) to just jump out of thin air. Maybe I misunderstood the conclusion?

[jimjamuser]

Shame on this mess!
I wonder who would win an arm-wrestling contest - Ann Ryn or Glenn Beck ?

[Travelingal702]

there are far too many loony-tunes running around out there...you learn from history...you don't try to cover it up, or try to judge it through the eyes of the present

IMHO, among the mistakes that we've made was giving every kid a trophy for just showing up, so that their fragile feelings wouldn't be scared at a young age

we have a generation of people that grew up in a bubble and now aren't able to accept reality

we also have a lot of people in academia that are very biased....and seem to preach their own bias vs teach the course content...
then when these kids graduate and they realize they weren't prepared for the real world, they whine and pout and decide they're not going to pay off their college loans

the country I grew up in no longer exists
I couldn't agree more. Well said!!!

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Of course, no clear reading of my post would suggest anyone was justifying McCarthy's actions. I shouldn't have to say as much, but I'm certainly not. And neither was von Hoffman, the columnist.

What the columnist was saying is that McCarthy - almost in spite of himself - was closer to being right about the degree to which communists existed in government than wrong, given what we know today. That doesn't make McCarthy innocent of anything. He should always be judged on his behavior, and to my knowledge nothing has changed in that regard. and there was no reason to give him any credit at all because many more people were on to communist penetration of different groups long before Joe did including my father who was branded one but wasn’t. The facts were that Joe actually never found a real party member whose was dangerous and probably didn’t care as long as he had press clippings to read while he drank his breakfast and lunch and he made finding them even harder in the 50’S because they went deeper underground

[RMHisle]

It is great to find that you support teaching real history, not white washed history. And that having children learn that there are some ugly facts in life, like loosing a soccer game or that white people systematically enslaved, raped, lynched and impoverished non-whites as a founding principle of this nation needs to be taught even if it makes a white person feel the sads.

Black and brown people did those things as well. All were guilty. However I did not participate in any way.

[Laker14]

there are far too many loony-tunes running around out there...you learn from history...you don't try to cover it up, or try to judge it through the eyes of the present

IMHO, among the mistakes that we've made was giving every kid a trophy for just showing up, so that their fragile feelings wouldn't be scared at a young age

we have a generation of people that grew up in a bubble and now aren't able to accept reality

we also have a lot of people in academia that are very biased....and seem to preach their own bias vs teach the course content...
then when these kids graduate and they realize they weren't prepared for the real world, they whine and pout and decide they're not going to pay off their college loans

the country I grew up in no longer exists

Says a person who lives in The Villages....

[EdFNJ]

I read this early today ----

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) determined recently that America's founding documents may be "harmful or difficult" for some users to view since they reflect "outdated, biased, offensive, and possibly violent views and opinions." That's no different than TV stations prefacing a report of a mass killing recorded live by a witness saying "Watching 3 people killed in a shootout might be disturbing to some". BFD.

And the National archives DID NOT SAY "They have determined ........." they said "The Catalog and web pages contain some content that may be harmful or difficult to view." They are referring to the descriptions writtne by their people/ Amazing how BS proliferates.

Here is the actual statement and not a twisting of the words that probably started on Facebook and (if you Google that statement) you will see the websites where it was posted. Oh yea, Glen Beck. The voice of "fact" (NOT).
NARA’s Statement on Potentially Harmful Content | National Archives (https://www.archives.gov/research/reparative-description/harmful-content)

[Bay Kid]

Our country is on a slippery slope.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I’m hoping we are headed for the mountain top

[Topspinmo]

While most of the posts on this thread have no idea of history and the motive for the thread and posts are of a nature that I find inexcusable, you make a valid point in many ways.

Times do change as you say, and keeping things in perspective and accurate to the times is important.

Few examples…..the swastika was a sign of good luck and fortune even used by US military in world WW1. It was hijacked by Hitler in the 30’s and now does not symbolize any good things at all.

Many of the changes made by the group hereby being accused, are to avoid political controversies or involvement. In order to preserve our history accurately AND in context with the times

There were actually court cases as recently as 2020 concerning photos that were blurred out to stay out of politics as they showed references that were distinctly politics.

YEP……looking at history requires context at every step. Without it, you are not reading history to understand things but for some other motive.

A serious researcher, that you mention, would appreciate really understanding our history

Yes, professor.

[Topspinmo]

I wonder who would win an arm-wrestling contest - Ann Ryn or Glenn Beck ?

I wonder who would read bill before passing it Nancy pelosi or chuck’s Schumer?