New CDC studies show waning vaccine effectiveness

[SkBlogW]

Between April 4 and June 19, before Delta’s rise, fully vaccinated people accounted for 5 percent of cases, 7 percent of hospitalizations and 8 percent of deaths. Those figures roughly doubled between June 20 to July 17 as the variant spread. Fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 18 percent of cases, 14 percent of hospitalizations and 16 percent of deaths.

New CDC studies show waning vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization in elderly (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/new-cdc-studies-show-waning-vaccine-effectiveness-against-hospitalization-in-elderly/ar-AAOj3be?ocid=msedgntp)

So cases doubled in a month, as delta began its surge

90761

So two months ago CDC reported fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 18 percent of cases, 14 percent of hospitalizations and 16 percent of deaths

Take a look at the graph and estimate the percentages of breakthough cases, hospitalizations, and deaths in fully vaccinated people as delta surged from July 17 until present.

Vaccine passports anyone?

[Aloha1]

What vaccine? When taken?, etc.

It is now known that both the Pfizer and J&J shots lose more efficacy after 6-8 months than Moderna ( down to 50-60% effective versus 70-80%). The question is why? Genetics?, How the vaccine itself was created? Many questions remain.

BUT, remember that the flu shot you get every year is at best only 60-65% effective against you getting flu from the get go. And regardless of the drop in efficacy for the Covid shots, the CDC and other medical experts concur that your odds of getting severe covid are minimal and your risk of dying is negligible . Ignore the fear mongering and live your life.

[Velvet]

Vaccine passports could indicate date of expiration and date of renewal when boosters show full vaccination status as now in Israel. But that’s not really what you are asking?

And …

‘The vaccines were 87 percent effective overall at preventing hospitalization, protection that remained relatively consistent before and after Delta became the country’s dominant variant, the study shows. But that figure masks notable differences between age groups. The shots were only 80 percent effective at keeping adults over 65 from being hospitalized with Covid, while they were 95 percent effective for people between ages 18 and 64.’

is probably explained by the fact that the older people got vaccinated first and therefore their vaccines are older and had more time to wane.

[graciegirl]

Between April 4 and June 19, before Delta’s rise, fully vaccinated people accounted for 5 percent of cases, 7 percent of hospitalizations and 8 percent of deaths. Those figures roughly doubled between June 20 to July 17 as the variant spread. Fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 18 percent of cases, 14 percent of hospitalizations and 16 percent of deaths.

New CDC studies show waning vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization in elderly (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/new-cdc-studies-show-waning-vaccine-effectiveness-against-hospitalization-in-elderly/ar-AAOj3be?ocid=msedgntp)

So cases doubled in a month, as delta began its surge

90761

So two months ago CDC reported fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 18 percent of cases, 14 percent of hospitalizations and 16 percent of deaths

Take a look at the graph and estimate the percentages of breakthough cases, hospitalizations, and deaths in fully vaccinated people as delta surged from July 17 until present.

Vaccine passports anyone?

I can find no evidence that people who are fully vaccinated account for 14 percent of hospitalization.

The Delta Variant is FAR more contagious and there have been many break through cases that I am aware of personally, but only one who was hospitalized: Dr. Boogie on this forum.

[Escape Artist]

Between April 4 and June 19, before Delta’s rise, fully vaccinated people accounted for 5 percent of cases, 7 percent of hospitalizations and 8 percent of deaths. Those figures roughly doubled between June 20 to July 17 as the variant spread. Fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 18 percent of cases, 14 percent of hospitalizations and 16 percent of deaths.

New CDC studies show waning vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization in elderly (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/new-cdc-studies-show-waning-vaccine-effectiveness-against-hospitalization-in-elderly/ar-AAOj3be?ocid=msedgntp)

So cases doubled in a month, as delta began its surge

90761

So two months ago CDC reported fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 18 percent of cases, 14 percent of hospitalizations and 16 percent of deaths

Take a look at the graph and estimate the percentages of breakthough cases, hospitalizations, and deaths in fully vaccinated people as delta surged from July 17 until present.

Vaccine passports anyone?

That graph doesn't say anything about fully vaccinated/breakthrough cases or at least I didn't see anything.

[Two Bills]

Wife and I had our second Pfizer jab in early January.
I still prefer my 'waning' protection to none at all.
Booster is on horizon.
Carry on, regardless!

[KarenD]

This tells you everything you need to know.

Clay Clark-The Medical Coverup Is Being Exposed,Class Action Lawsuits Is Not Just A Catch-Phrase (https://x22report.com/aiovg_videos/clay-clark-the-medical-coverup-is-being-exposedclass-action-lawsuits-is-not-just-a-catch-phrase/)

[JakeInTV]

Massachusetts coronavirus breakthrough cases jump 4,415 last week, more than 600 fully vaccinated people a day (https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/09/07/massachusetts-coronavirus-breakthrough-cases-jump-4415-last-week-more-than-600-fully-vaccinated-people-a-day/)

[tvbound]

Massachusetts coronavirus breakthrough cases jump 4,415 last week, more than 600 fully vaccinated people a day (/2021/09/07/massachusetts-coronavirus-breakthrough-cases-jump-4415-last-week-more-than-600-fully-vaccinated-people-a-day/)

At least there is good news (per the link).

"Breakthrough hospitalizations account for about 25% of current COVID-19 hospitalizations. Those who are unvaccinated are at a much higher risk for a severe case and hospitalization."


Looking forward to the booster, as it should be easy to find me to give it - since they put the tracker in the first one. LOL

[Bill14564]

This tells you everything you need to know.

Clay Clark-The Medical Coverup Is Being Exposed,Class Action Lawsuits Is Not Just A Catch-Phrase (https://x22report.com/aiovg_videos/clay-clark-the-medical-coverup-is-being-exposedclass-action-lawsuits-is-not-just-a-catch-phrase/)

Yep, it does. Started as a commercial, transitioned into an informercial, then provided incorrect or misleading information about testing - didn't take three minutes to see all I needed to see.

[coffeebean]

This tells you everything you need to know.

Clay Clark-The Medical Coverup Is Being Exposed,Class Action Lawsuits Is Not Just A Catch-Phrase (https://x22report.com/aiovg_videos/clay-clark-the-medical-coverup-is-being-exposedclass-action-lawsuits-is-not-just-a-catch-phrase/)

Far right website. No thanks.

MSM is my preferred news source and to obtain my information from. It is "main stream", not extreme.

[JakeInTV]

In May, The CDC stopped counting Breakthroughs. Why Did the CDC Stop Counting Mild and Asymptomatic 'Breakthrough' COVID Cases? (https://www.newsweek.com/why-did-cdc-stop-counting-mild-asymptomatic-breakthrough-covid-cases-1616802)

[coffeebean]

In May, The CDC stopped counting Breakthroughs. Why Did the CDC Stop Counting Mild and Asymptomatic 'Breakthrough' COVID Cases? (https://www.newsweek.com/why-did-cdc-stop-counting-mild-asymptomatic-breakthrough-covid-cases-1616802)

Asymptomatic breakthrough cases go uncounted all the time, just as asymptomatic cases of the un-vaccinated go uncounted. There is no need to get tested if you are not having symptoms unless you need to test for travel or employment or whatever other reason there may be.

So......why bother to count those breakthrough cases at all? The purpose of our vaccines was always to minimize the symptoms of Covid and prevent death. I do understand the reason for the CDC to stop counting breakthrough cases unless those cases result in hospitalization and death. Those are the cases the vaccine failed to do what it was supposed to do. Those are the cases that need to be counted.

All my opinion.

[glsatterlee]

Report from the Cleveland Clinic:

People who have previously been infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 are protected against being infected again and thus don’t need to be vaccinated, according to a new study.

“Our conclusion is that if you were previously infected, you are protected because of the previous infection and you don’t need the vaccine,” Dr. Nabin Shrestha, of the Cleveland Clinic’s Department of Infectious Disease, told The Epoch Times.

Shrestha and colleagues at the clinic studied data on employees, separating them into four groups: previously infected and unvaccinated, previously infected and vaccinated, not previously infected and unvaccinated, and not previously infected and vaccinated.

They found the vaccines were strongly effective in preventing infection from the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) virus, which causes COVID-19, but that previous infection also bestowed a natural immunity.

“Among the people who were previously infected, whether they took the vaccine or not, there really were no COVID cases,” Shrestha said.

Of the 52,238 employees studied, 2,579 were previously infected. About half of those remained unvaccinated. Of the 49,659 employees who did not have a previous infection, 41 percent did not get a vaccine.

[merrymini]

I am glad, or not glad, as the case may be, to hear that everybody during the pandemic died of covid, not the flu, not heart disease, not cancer. All these numbers are cooked. If you really want to know, you make the effort to know everything you can, especially with vaccines that have not gone through the usual prerequisite screening process. The cdc stopped counting a great deal. After all, you may find out that your politically motivated convictions are wrong, oh my!

[MandoMan]

Between April 4 and June 19, before Delta’s rise, fully vaccinated people accounted for 5 percent of cases, 7 percent of hospitalizations and 8 percent of deaths. Those figures roughly doubled between June 20 to July 17 as the variant spread. Fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 18 percent of cases, 14 percent of hospitalizations and 16 percent of deaths.

New CDC studies show waning vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization in elderly (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/new-cdc-studies-show-waning-vaccine-effectiveness-against-hospitalization-in-elderly/ar-AAOj3be?ocid=msedgntp)

So cases doubled in a month, as delta began its surge

90761

So two months ago CDC reported fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 18 percent of cases, 14 percent of hospitalizations and 16 percent of deaths

Take a look at the graph and estimate the percentages of breakthough cases, hospitalizations, and deaths in fully vaccinated people as delta surged from July 17 until present.

Vaccine passports anyone?

This infection rate for vaccinated people is in line with the latest from the CDC about where effectiveness is now six months after most of us in The Villages got vaccinated: about 90% for Moderna, 85% for Pfizer, and less for the Johnson & Johnson single dose. Combine all those and that’s relatively close. The article you cite is from “Politico,” and you have used the information accurately. However, I went to the CDC web site and found the just-released study and found the source of the information. Politico definitely cherry-picked the most alarming sentences while not mentioning the paragraphs just above or after, which provide very different pictures. Here are all three paragraphs:

“During April 4–July 17, a total of 569,142 (92%) COVID-19 cases, 34,972 (92%) hospitalizations, and 6,132 (91%) COVID-19–associated deaths were reported among persons not fully vaccinated, and 46,312 (8%) cases, 2,976 (8%) hospitalizations, and 616 (9%) deaths were reported among fully vaccinated persons in the 13 jurisdictions (Table). The weekly prevalence of the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant increased from <1% to 90% during April 4–July 17. Full vaccination coverage increased from 19% to 54%; in the final week, coverage ranged by age group from 45% (in persons aged 18–49 years) to 73% (≥65 years).

“During April 4–June 19, fully vaccinated persons accounted for 5% of cases, 7% of hospitalizations, and 8% of deaths overall; these percentages were higher during June 20–July 17 (18%, 14%, and 16%, respectively). Using the reported 37% vaccination coverage for the 13 jurisdictions during April 4–June 19 and an assumption of 90% VE, vaccinated persons would have been expected to account for 6% of cases (close to the 5% observed). With 53% coverage reported during June 20–July 17, vaccinated persons were expected to account for 10% of cases at a constant VE of 90%; the observed 18% would have been expected at a lower VE of 80%.

“[NOTE THIS PARAGRAPH!] Averaged weekly, age-standardized rates (events per 100,000 persons) were higher among persons not fully vaccinated than among fully vaccinated persons for reported cases (112.3 versus 10.1), hospitalizations (9.1 versus 0.7), and deaths (1.6 versus 0.1) during April 4–June 19, as well as during June 20–July 17 (89.1 versus 19.4; 7.0 versus 0.7; 1.1 versus 0.1, respectively). Higher hospitalization and death rates were observed in older age groups, regardless of vaccination status, resulting in a larger impact of age-standardization on overall incidence for these outcomes.”

That means, again, that in a given week, at a time when 90% of the Covid-19 cases are the Delta variant, among the UNVACCINATED, in a group of 100,000 people, 89.1 caught the virus, 7 were hospitalized, and 1.1 died. (So of every 7 unvaccinated people who go to the hospital, 1 dies and 6 live to go home and try to recover from it.) Among the VACCINATED, out of 100,000 people in the general population, 19.4 caught the virus, 0.7 had to be hospitalized, and 0.1 died. That means ONE person in a MILLION who was vaccinated DIED in that week.

Another way of looking at it is to say that in that week, out of 100,000 people in one week, 99,911 who were NOT vaccinated did NOT get sick. If you multiply that by 52 weeks, however, it looks like roughly one UNvaccinated person in 20 would get Covid and 0.6 out of 100 would die IN A YEAR. My math may be wrong here.

Here’s the link:

Monitoring Incidence of COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations, and Deaths, by Vaccination Status — 13 U.S. Jurisdictions, April 4–July 17, 2021 | MMWR (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm?s_cid=mm7037e1_x)

By the way, here are a couple useful charts of where various news sources fall on the political spectrum and the reliability spectrum. Worth saving and framing.

[Bill14564]

I am glad, or not glad, as the case may be, to hear that everybody during the pandemic died of covid, not the flu, not heart disease, not cancer. All these numbers are cooked. If you really want to know, you make the effort to know everything you can, especially with vaccines that have not gone through the usual prerequisite screening process. The cdc stopped counting a great deal. After all, you may find out that your politically motivated convictions are wrong, oh my!

Can you post a source for your claim that no one died from flu, heart disease, or cancer? This report (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234) seems to show otherwise.

If the Covid death numbers are just cooked, do you have an explanation for the approximately 550,000 additional deaths in 2020?

What prerequisite screening processes were skipped?

[glsatterlee]

COVID-19 Survivors Have Broad, Longer-Term Immunity

Besides the study out of Israel, there is another source out of Cell Reports Medicine: DEFINE_ME (https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-3791(21)00203-2?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com %2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS2666379121002032%3Fshowall%3D true)

Research lead Dr. is out of Emory University. Rafi Ahmed, director of the Emory University Vaccine Center and a lead author of the paper.

[SkBlogW]

I can find no evidence that people who are fully vaccinated account for 14 percent of hospitalization.

The Delta Variant is FAR more contagious and there have been many break through cases that I am aware of personally, but only one who was hospitalized: Dr. Boogie on this forum.

Your anectdotal experience has zero relevance to actual data collected by the CDC.

It's funny how everyone says follow the science, trust the CDC, except when the data goes against their personal beliefs.

[Jeff Coats]

I am glad, or not glad, as the case may be, to hear that everybody during the pandemic died of covid, not the flu, not heart disease, not cancer. All these numbers are cooked. If you really want to know, you make the effort to know everything you can, especially with vaccines that have not gone through the usual prerequisite screening process. The cdc stopped counting a great deal. After all, you may find out that your politically motivated convictions are wrong, oh my!

Indeed! We have been lied to from the very beginning of this plandemic. Who really believes the numbers we are hearing are accurate? If anyone truly takes the time to study the numbers and put everything in perspective you can easily see the numbers do not add up! We are being manipulated is a very despicable way in order to sow extreme divisions amongst us. It is Critical Theory in practice again. Those who have studied history can understand how this has worked out in the past.

If you want the jab, get it. If you don’t want it, don’t get it. Just leave your neighbor be and let them live of die as they wish. In other words Don’t Tread on Me.

Finally, unless YOU have counted the people, protocols followed, treatments received and compiled the data yourselves, please do not believe ANYONE who quotes you numbers. Especially 3 letter groups under national or NGO authority. Unless of course you do not mind leading people astray and being the indirect result of there demise.

[SkBlogW]

That graph doesn't say anything about fully vaccinated/breakthrough cases or at least I didn't see anything.

The graph is for all cases in the US over a period of time. I posted it only to show the time period CDC collected data for this study and it's relation to the delta surge.

Hint: The study was at the very beginning of the surge.

[graciegirl]

This infection rate for vaccinated people is in line with the latest from the CDC about where effectiveness is now six months after most of us in The Villages got vaccinated: about 90% fir Moderna, 85% for Pfizer, and less for the Johnson & Johnson single dose. Combine all those and that’s relatively close. However, the death rate for vaccinated people is NOT what I’ve seen elsewhere, which is virtually none. I read the article from Politico that you cited, and I think you have misunderstood the numbers.

By the way, here are a couple useful charts of where various news sources fall on the political spectrum and the reliability spectrum. Worth saving and framing.

This chart showing spectrum is indeed worth saving and framing. I so wish that more people would check the bias of their sources. Some are indeed biased in their opinions but they are factual, such as The New York Times, The Washington Post, AP Wire.

[graciegirl]

Your anectdotal experience has zero relevance to actual data collected by the CDC.

It's funny how everyone says follow the science, trust the CDC, except when the data goes against their personal beliefs.

I was not clear. I want you to link me to something from the CDC that says that 14% of people hospitalized were fully vaccinated. I cannot find the CDC saying that. Please link it.

[Carol Fiore]

We now have options. If you get the virus (shot or no shot), you can get the medicine for free. They set up a site in Brownwood movie theater.
(new monoclonal antibody therapy) This option sounds better than going to the hospital for treatment.

[ffresh]

Indeed! We have been lied to from the very beginning of this plandemic. Who really believes the numbers we are hearing are accurate? If anyone truly takes the time to study the numbers and put everything in perspective you can easily see the numbers do not add up! We are being manipulated is a very despicable way in order to sow extreme divisions amongst us. It is Critical Theory in practice again. Those who have studied history can understand how this has worked out in the past.

If you want the jab, get it. If you don’t want it, don’t get it. Just leave your neighbor be and let them live of die as they wish. In other words Don’t Tread on Me.

Finally, unless YOU have counted the people, protocols followed, treatments received and compiled the data yourselves, please do not believe ANYONE who quotes you numbers. Especially 3 letter groups under national or NGO authority. Unless of course you do not mind leading people astray and being the indirect result of there demise.

THANK YOU for saying what so many of us have concluded from EXTENSIVE research! Thank you also for taking the time to say it ... I can't be bothered anymore. Percentagewise, few people will let go of their preconceived notions, feelings, and biases, despite evidence to the contrary. I have taken to spending my efforts on more productive endeavors during my free time and, thus, comment far less frequently. I can usually breeze through the TOTV topics within 10 minutes now - it used to be an hour or more. :icon_wink:

[sktb888]

Hubs and I we're vaccinated February 12th and March 12th with Moderna. The end of August with both contracted covid-19. We follow CDC guidelines and we're masking up again and social distancing. None of our friends had it as far as we know and we don't know where we contracted the disease. I got it from my husband I know that much but where he got it we have no idea. Thankfully the modern vaccine kept our sickness down to a minimum. We both had one really bad day and then we were able to function relatively normally. We both quarantined for 10 days after we received our positive test for covid, per the CDC guidelines. We are both over 65. We both still can't taste or smell much of anything but are functioning normally other than that. Special shout out to thank the scientists that developed the Moderna Vaccine. Although it's waning in potency, it did exactly what it was supposed to do for us.

[SkBlogW]

I was not clear. I want you to link me to something from the CDC that says that 14% of people hospitalized were fully vaccinated. I cannot find the CDC saying that. Please link it.

Our finding that a substantial and growing proportion of hospitalized persons were fully vaccinated is not surprising; the proportion of hospitalized cases who are fully vaccinated is expected to increase as population vaccination coverage increases. Given the high vaccination coverage, particularly in older age groups, which was more than 80% in July for those ≥65 years,2 the finding that 16% of hospitalized cases ≥18 years during that month were fully vaccinated is consistent with what we would expect from highly effective vaccines.

COVID-19-associated hospitalizations among vaccinated and unvaccinated adults ≥18 years – COVID-NET, 13 states, January 1 – July 24, 2021 | medRxiv (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.27.21262356v1.full#T3)

[lkagele]

Far right website. No thanks.

MSM is my preferred news source and to obtain my information from. It is "main stream", not extreme.

Did you even listen to the podcast? Just because it may be far right doesn't mean it isn't accurate or contain thought provoking ideas. The MSM is agenda driven. If that's your only source of information, you're going to end up being sorely misinformed. I suspect any source that doesn't agree with your views is labeled 'far right'.

BTW, latest info from Britain:

Data show that only about 25% of deaths in Britain are among the unvaccinated - and that vaccinated people over 40 are actually MORE likely to get Covid than the unvaccinated.

This, from an unbiased source.

[Waltdisney4life]

I love all this bs, please don’t stop! If you do stop where will I find so much entertainment for free!

[Andyb]

Unfortunately, as the vax becomes ineffective for Cov-Id, the long term effects are still real, such as Bells Palsy, Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s. You gotta ask yourself. Is it worth it knowing you have a 99.8% chance of surviving, except maybe for those with cormobidities?

[Bill14564]

Did you even listen to the podcast? Just because it may be far right doesn't mean it isn't accurate or contain thought provoking ideas. The MSM is agenda driven. If that's your only source of information, you're going to end up being sorely misinformed. I suspect any source that doesn't agree with your views is labeled 'far right'.

BTW, latest info from Britain:

Data show that only about 25% of deaths in Britain are among the unvaccinated - and that vaccinated people over 40 are actually MORE likely to get Covid than the unvaccinated.

This, from an unbiased source.

Unbiased source, perhaps, but a questionable summarization of the article. From the actual article itself:

The fact that more vaccinated people are dying than unvaccinated people, or that a higher proportion of people in hospital with covid have been vaccinated than we might expect, does nothing to undermine vaccine safety or effectiveness. In fact, it’s exactly what we’d expect from the excellent vaccines that have already saved hundreds of thousands of lives around the world.

[fcgiii]

It find it disturbing that there are only two classes of people: the Vaccinated and the Unvaccinated. Nobody ever includes those that have natural immunity. Maybe instead of a vaccine passport we should have an antibody test and carry around the results. Tests are available at LabCorp in Brownwood for $10.

[steelers11]

Because of all the comments or reports on Covid, I have started watching a weekly update from John Hopkins. It runs every Friday at noon and lasts for 30 minutes. It is very informative and if you view in real time you can submit questions. The John Hopkins Coronavirus site has a wealth of information.

[SkBlogW]

It find it disturbing that there are only two classes of people: the Vaccinated and the Unvaccinated. Nobody ever includes those that have natural immunity. Maybe instead of a vaccine passport we should have an antibody test and carry around the results. Tests are available at LabCorp in Brownwood for $10.

You get an A+ for understanding antibody test is miles better than a useless vaccine passport.

[Bill14564]

Unfortunately, as the vax becomes ineffective for Cov-Id, the long term effects are still real, such as Bells Palsy, Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s. You gotta ask yourself. Is it worth it knowing you have a 99.8% chance of surviving, except maybe for those with cormobidities?

Proof of those long-term effects along with the probability of occurrence?

Data you used to determine 99.8%? (data I can find points to around 98% - 99%)

"Except those with cormorbidities" What are the comorbidities? It seems like the list of comorbidities is so long and their prevalence in the population is so high that nearly everyone has a comorbidity.

Odd logic that leads to deciding that there is a better chance to face the disease that is killing people than to take the vaccine that is preventing deaths.

[Proveone]

What's your point! Your headline and comments are misleading. The Politico article actually reaffirms the fact that the vaccine is effective. Personally, I would rather be around people who are vaccinated than those who are not.

Again, "What's your point"!





Between April 4 and June 19, before Delta’s rise, fully vaccinated people accounted for 5 percent of cases, 7 percent of hospitalizations and 8 percent of deaths. Those figures roughly doubled between June 20 to July 17 as the variant spread. Fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 18 percent of cases, 14 percent of hospitalizations and 16 percent of deaths.

New CDC studies show waning vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization in elderly (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/new-cdc-studies-show-waning-vaccine-effectiveness-against-hospitalization-in-elderly/ar-AAOj3be?ocid=msedgntp)

So cases doubled in a month, as delta began its surge

90761

So two months ago CDC reported fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 18 percent of cases, 14 percent of hospitalizations and 16 percent of deaths

Take a look at the graph and estimate the percentages of breakthough cases, hospitalizations, and deaths in fully vaccinated people as delta surged from July 17 until present.

Vaccine passports anyone?

[Windguy]

Is it because the vaccine is less effective, or that vaccinated people thought that they were safe and decided to do more risky things? I suspect that, in general, most of those that got the vaccine were those who took fewer risks prior to the vaccine and then went out more afterward. I am one of those people, but I decided to avoid crowded places again after my vaccinated friend got sick. Maybe others will do like me and we will see that the percentage of cases that are vaccinated people will fall.

[newgirl]

X22..how do you find these sites?
If you believe something and search the internet long enough, you will find someone that thinks like you.
Really best to stop with internet news stations and can't stations and go back to the big 3...

[jimjamuser]

Between April 4 and June 19, before Delta’s rise, fully vaccinated people accounted for 5 percent of cases, 7 percent of hospitalizations and 8 percent of deaths. Those figures roughly doubled between June 20 to July 17 as the variant spread. Fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 18 percent of cases, 14 percent of hospitalizations and 16 percent of deaths.

New CDC studies show waning vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization in elderly (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/new-cdc-studies-show-waning-vaccine-effectiveness-against-hospitalization-in-elderly/ar-AAOj3be?ocid=msedgntp)

So cases doubled in a month, as delta began its surge

90761

So two months ago CDC reported fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 18 percent of cases, 14 percent of hospitalizations and 16 percent of deaths

Take a look at the graph and estimate the percentages of breakthough cases, hospitalizations, and deaths in fully vaccinated people as delta surged from July 17 until present.

Vaccine passports anyone?
As stated by a health care Professor at Brown University - 99% of CV hospitalizations are the UNvaccinated.

[jimjamuser]

Indeed! We have been lied to from the very beginning of this plandemic. Who really believes the numbers we are hearing are accurate? If anyone truly takes the time to study the numbers and put everything in perspective you can easily see the numbers do not add up! We are being manipulated is a very despicable way in order to sow extreme divisions amongst us. It is Critical Theory in practice again. Those who have studied history can understand how this has worked out in the past.

If you want the jab, get it. If you don’t want it, don’t get it. Just leave your neighbor be and let them live of die as they wish. In other words Don’t Tread on Me.

Finally, unless YOU have counted the people, protocols followed, treatments received and compiled the data yourselves, please do not believe ANYONE who quotes you numbers. Especially 3 letter groups under national or NGO authority. Unless of course you do not mind leading people astray and being the indirect result of there demise.
OK, I confess - I believe in Science, the US government, and the CDC. Nothing is perfect, but those mentioned ARE pretty reliable.

[Koapaka]

Have to wonder if we will look back in time to say we were as wrong about one position or the other regarding COVID......."all we did wrong was listen to the EPA".

'9/11 didn’t end on 9/11': attorney says his clients are still dying 20 years later (https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/not-a-day-goes-by-without-one-of-my-clients-dying-attorney-about-911-related-illnesses-20-years-later-123319592.html)

[Dgodin]

Yes to vaccine passports.

Let the unvaccinated enjoy "freedom" from inside their homes while patriotic americans move about freely.

Remember when patiotism meant a sacrifice for the common good? In WWII people gladly accepted years of rationing and blackouts. Soldiers letters home were read and censored. Where is that sense of civic duty now? Instead too many just in it for themselves.

And as for boosters. The military gave me more vaccines and boosters than I can count.
And on Monday I'm going to to the VA for the covid vaccine booster. It isn't just for my benefit. It's my patriotic duty to do what I can to stop the virus and save American lives.

[jdulej]

Yes to vaccine passports.

Let the unvaccinated enjoy "freedom" from inside their homes while patriotic americans move about freely.

Remember when patiotism meant a sacrifice for the common good? In WWII people gladly accepted years of rationing and blackouts. Soldiers letters home were read and censored. Where is that sense of civic duty now? Instead too many just in it for themselves.

And as for boosters. The military gave me more vaccines and boosters than I can count.
And on Monday I'm going to to the VA for the covid vaccine booster. It isn't just for my benefit. It's my patriotic duty to do what I can to stop the virus and save American lives.

Well said!

[Velvet]

I’m not sure that vaccine passports have quite the same significance as before. Previously it was thought that the vaccinated don’t transmit the virus, but now we know the infected vaccinated people do transmit the Delta variant. The load is likely to be less in milder infections but they can transmit nevertheless. Which means the vaccines mostly protect the person who is vaccinated. That is very different from, get vaccinated to protect all of us. Still there are obvious benefits, milder cases don’t fill up the hospitals and that leaves room for other illnesses to be treated.

[SkBlogW]

As stated by a health care Professor at Brown University - 99% of CV hospitalizations are the UNvaccinated.

Health care professor?? LOL With no link we have no idea when he said it and what data he was analyzing. The CDC funded study I linked in OP shows 16% of hospitalizations were fully vaccinated from June 20 to July 17, at start of Delata surge.

Probably percentage is higher now due to delta surge peaking at very high levels, and more time for vaccine efficacy to go lower. Israel reported as high as 40% when they hit peak delta surge.

Follow the science dude!!

[Two Bills]

England has today officially dumped Vaccine Passports.
To much trouble, and cost to introduce.
Scotland is still going ahead with them.

[drducat]

Herd immunity is toast....


‘Herd immunity’ impossible to achieve, say experts (https://www.msn.com/en-my/news/national/e2-80-98herd-immunity-e2-80-99-impossible-to-achieve-say-experts/ar-AAOhixe)

[coffeebean]

Did you even listen to the podcast? Just because it may be far right doesn't mean it isn't accurate or contain thought provoking ideas. The MSM is agenda driven. If that's your only source of information, you're going to end up being sorely misinformed. I suspect any source that doesn't agree with your views is labeled 'far right'.

BTW, latest info from Britain:

Data show that only about 25% of deaths in Britain are among the unvaccinated - and that vaccinated people over 40 are actually MORE likely to get Covid than the unvaccinated.

This, from an unbiased source.

No, I did not listen to the podcast.

Britain vaccinated many of their citizens with AZ vaccine. I don't know the efficacy of that vaccine vs the mRNA vaccines that are prominent on our country. Britain also did not adhere to the manufacturer's recommendation for the interval of administering the vaccines. Britain decided to vaccinate as many people as possible with the first shot and had their citizens wait much longer for their second shot. Also.....Britain used mixed vaccines for their citizens. They were told to take which ever vaccine was available at the time, even if it were different manufacturers.

Comparing Britain with the US is like comparing apples to oranges, IMHO.

[drducat]

No, I did not listen to the podcast.

Britain vaccinated many of their citizens with AZ vaccine. I don't know the efficacy of that vaccine vs the mRNA vaccines that are prominent on our country. Britain also did not adhere to the manufacturer's recommendation for the interval of administering the vaccines. Britain decided to vaccinate as many people as possible with the first shot and had their citizens wait much longer for their second shot. Also.....Britain used mixed vaccines for their citizens. They were told to take which ever vaccine was available at the time, even if it were different manufacturers.

Comparing Britain with the US is like comparing apples to oranges, IMHO.

That is where all the valid info is coming from...UK and Israel.The only countries with honest data...US has been tell fibs and too many are buying it....

[drducat]

That is where all the valid info is coming from...UK and Israel.The only countries with honest data...US has been tell fibs and too many are buying it....

Wow watch this.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u8ObojeZgo

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Between April 4 and June 19, before Delta’s rise, fully vaccinated people accounted for 5 percent of cases, 7 percent of hospitalizations and 8 percent of deaths. Those figures roughly doubled between June 20 to July 17 as the variant spread. Fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 18 percent of cases, 14 percent of hospitalizations and 16 percent of deaths.

New CDC studies show waning vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization in elderly (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/new-cdc-studies-show-waning-vaccine-effectiveness-against-hospitalization-in-elderly/ar-AAOj3be?ocid=msedgntp)

So cases doubled in a month, as delta began its surge

90761

So two months ago CDC reported fully vaccinated individuals accounted for 18 percent of cases, 14 percent of hospitalizations and 16 percent of deaths

Take a look at the graph and estimate the percentages of breakthough cases, hospitalizations, and deaths in fully vaccinated people as delta surged from July 17 until present.

Vaccine passports anyone?

I consider the CDC less than 50% effective in providing accurate statistics.

[jswirs]

Indeed! We have been lied to from the beginning of this plandemic. Who really believes the numbers we are hearing are accurate? If from the very beginning anyone truly takes the time to study the numbers and put everything in perspective you can easily see the numbers do not add up! We are being manipulated is a very despicable way in order to sow extreme divisions amongst us. It is Critical Theory in practice again. Those who have studied history can understand how this has worked out in the past.

If you want the jab, get it. If you don’t want it, don’t get it. Just leave your neighbor be and let them live of die as they wish. In other words Don’t Tread on Me.

Finally, unless YOU have counted the people, protocols followed, treatments received and compiled the data yourselves, please do not believe ANYONE who quotes you numbers. Especially 3 letter groups under national or NGO authority. Unless of course you do not mind leading people astray and being the indirect result of there demise.
And here we have another individual who is able to think for himself. Unfortunately, there are not that many of us. GREAT POST!.

[drducat]

Originally Posted by Jeff Coats View Post
Indeed! We have been lied to from the beginning of this plandemic. Who really believes the numbers we are hearing are accurate? If from the very beginning anyone truly takes the time to study the numbers and put everything in perspective you can easily see the numbers do not add up! We are being manipulated is a very despicable way in order to sow extreme divisions amongst us. It is Critical Theory in practice again. Those who have studied history can understand how this has worked out in the past.

If you want the jab, get it. If you don’t want it, don’t get it. Just leave your neighbor be and let them live of die as they wish. In other words Don’t Tread on Me.

Finally, unless YOU have counted the people, protocols followed, treatments received and compiled the data yourselves, please do not believe ANYONE who quotes you numbers. Especially 3 letter groups under national or NGO authority. Unless of course you do not mind leading people astray and being the indirect result of there demise.


And here we have another individual who is able to think for himself. Unfortunately, there are not that many of us. GREAT POST!.

To think this is happening is outlandish.....

FDA ‘playing bait and switch’ with Americans, tricking them into believing shots currently being offered have been granted full approval when they have not – LeoHohmann.com (https://leohohmann.com/2021/08/25/fda-playing-bait-and-switch-with-americans-tricking-them-into-believing-shots-currently-being-offered-have-been-granted-full-approval-when-they-have-not/)

[Bay Kid]

England has today officially dumped Vaccine Passports.
To much trouble, and cost to introduce.
Scotland is still going ahead with them.

Maybe we should use a vaccine passport in place of voter id?

[jswirs]

Wow watch this.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u8ObojeZgo

This is a huge WOW. As I have been saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. And...The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior!

[Malsua]

Wow watch this.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u8ObojeZgo

Two things jump out at me from that video.

1. The entire vaccine effort and scare mongering were based on ONE case and fatality. There were "media reports" of other cases. No verification, no anything, just a mass vaccination based on ONE CASE FATALITY.

2. You could sue the federal government if harmed. There were no blanket waivers of liability on that one. Boy did "they" learn their lesson.


I guess there is one lesson here. Unless you hear it from a celebrity's mouth, don't believe it.

Another lesson, if you are mandated to get a shot, insist on Comirnaty. Generic Pfiser BNT162b2 is only approved under EUA and you assume all liability when taking it.

I got the Moderna shot, it's been seemingly more effective, lets hope that trend continues. Two potential reasons for this are the time between shots and the amount of active MRNA. Based on the UK experience, stretching out the window between shots may improve efficacy, so maybe skip a week or two between if you're getting a Comirnaty.

[jswirs]

Two things jump out at me from that video.

1. The entire vaccine effort and scare mongering were based on ONE case and fatality. There were "media reports" of other cases. No verification, no anything, just a mass vaccination based on ONE CASE FATALITY.

2. You could sue the federal government if harmed. There were no blanket waivers of liability on that one. Boy did "they" learn their lesson.


I guess there is one lesson here. Unless you hear it from a celebrity's mouth, don't believe it.

Another lesson, if you are mandated to get a shot, insist on Comirnaty. Generic Pfiser BNT162b2 is only approved under EUA and you assume all liability when taking it.

I got the Moderna shot, it's been seemingly more effective, lets hope that trend continues. Two potential reasons for this are the time between shots and the amount of active MRNA. Based on the UK experience, stretching out the window between shots may improve efficacy, so maybe skip a week or two between if you're getting a Comirnaty.

So, what is highlighted above is one of your lessons? I take that is sarcasm on your part?
I get no lessons from the video, because it's nothing more than what I have experienced, seen, lived, for many decades. However, it may be worthwhile ammunition against the current "mandate".

[Byte1]

Just a thought:
How many HEALTHY people are dying from Covid?
If healthy people are not dying from Covid, and a vaccination does NOT keep healthy people from being infected, then is it REALLY important that healthy folks get vaccinated?
Do healthy children really NEED to be vaccinated for Covid at this time? Perhaps more research and testing should be conducted?
Do healthy folks need a booster shot if it does not keep them from becoming infected and when infected they do not need to worry about dying from Covid?
Just some thoughts, that sets aside the hysteria and panic and just asks some basic questions.
Like I have said before, I have had my shots. Do I intend on getting a booster? I am healthy, no medications, and just vitamins. So, my debate with myself is the pros and cons of getting the booster. If it is not necessary, then why subject the body with a foreign substance that may or may not have long term effects? Since I am in my twilight years, does any long term effects even matter?
Do manipulated stats really mean anything to me? Does anyone else's safety mean anything to me, other than my family and close friends? Do I wish to take responsibility for other folks safety when there is no proof that I would have any effect regardless of what I do?
Mandated masks that have very little effect.
Mandated vaccinations that may not even protect you.
Shut down services
Destroy the economy
Delay children's education for years
Delay important surgeries

Evil is having a great time and celebrating the world's panic.

[Malsua]

So, what is highlighted above is one of your lessons? I take that is sarcasm on your part?
I get no lessons from the video, because it's nothing more than what I have experienced, seen, lived, for many decades. However, it may be worthwhile ammunition against the current "mandate".

Sorry, left off a :MOJE_whot:

Yes, basically if the media presents it as important, it's probably trying to manipulate you one way or another.

[JMintzer]

COVID-19 Survivors Have Broad, Longer-Term Immunity

Besides the study out of Israel, there is another source out of Cell Reports Medicine: DEFINE_ME (https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-3791(21)00203-2?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com %2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS2666379121002032%3Fshowall%3D true)

Research lead Dr. is out of Emory University. Rafi Ahmed, director of the Emory University Vaccine Center and a lead author of the paper.

WooHoo! Yay Me!

https://media3.giphy.com/media/3o7buiQeyYFamzRoR2/giphy.gif

[JMintzer]

It find it disturbing that there are only two classes of people: the Vaccinated and the Unvaccinated. Nobody ever includes those that have natural immunity. Maybe instead of a vaccine passport we should have an antibody test and carry around the results. Tests are available at LabCorp in Brownwood for $10.

It seems that they are purposely ignoring those who had and recovered from Covid...

I can't figure out why that is... But I have my suspicions...

[JMintzer]

As stated by a health care Professor at Brown University - 99% of CV hospitalizations are the UNvaccinated.

NO ONE else is using that ridiculously high number...

[SkBlogW]

WooHoo! Yay Me!

https://media3.giphy.com/media/3o7buiQeyYFamzRoR2/giphy.gif

Scene at Publix

Mask wearing vaccinated person to un masked, un vaccinated covid survivor

How dare you!! Get your mask on! Where is your vaccine passport! You are going to kill all the children and allow the phi kappa delta variant to infect us all!

Survivor: Why do you wear a mask if vaccinated?

Vaxxer: Because science tells us that vaccinated people can still be infected and spread their cooties. This is why vaccine passports are neccessary.

Survivor: WTF????

[JMintzer]

Scene at Publix

Mask wearing vaccinated person to un masked, un vaccinated covid survivor

How dare you!! Get your mask on! Where is your vaccine passport! You are going to kill all the children and allow the phi kappa delta variant to infect us all!

Survivor: Why do you wear a mask if vaccinated?

Vaxxer: Because science tells us that vaccinated people can still be infected and spread their cooties. This is why vaccine passports are neccessary.

Survivor: WTF????

Except I'd never do that @ Publix...

If a business asks me to wear a mask, and I choose to be a patron of said business, I'll put on a mask...

The juice just ain't worth the squeeze...

Now, if someone harasses me on the street about not wearing a mask, we'll have a serious problem...

[drducat]

And here we have another individual who is able to think for himself. Unfortunately, there are not that many of us. GREAT POST!.

Two things jump out at me from that video.

1. The entire vaccine effort and scare mongering were based on ONE case and fatality. There were "media reports" of other cases. No verification, no anything, just a mass vaccination based on ONE CASE FATALITY.

2. You could sue the federal government if harmed. There were no blanket waivers of liability on that one. Boy did "they" learn their lesson.


I guess there is one lesson here. Unless you hear it from a celebrity's mouth, don't believe it.

Another lesson, if you are mandated to get a shot, insist on Comirnaty. Generic Pfiser BNT162b2 is only approved under EUA and you assume all liability when taking it.

I got the Moderna shot, it's been seemingly more effective, lets hope that trend continues. Two potential reasons for this are the time between shots and the amount of active MRNA. Based on the UK experience, stretching out the window between shots may improve efficacy, so maybe skip a week or two between if you're getting a Comirnaty.

Comirnaty is non existent.....try to find some.....not being made yet...maybe in a couple of years...good luck.

[Velvet]

With the highly contagious delta variant, which can reinfect those who had Covid before, the vaccine mostly protects the person vaccinated. In one week over one million new cases in the US.

And children:

‘Change in Child COVID-19 Cases*

251,781 child COVID-19 cases were reported the past week from 8/26/21-9/2/21 (4,797,683 to 5,049,465) and children represented 26.8% (251,781/939,470) of the weekly reported cases
Over two weeks, 8/19/21-9/2/21, there was a 10% increase in the cumulated number of child COVID-19 cases since the beginning of the pandemic (455,744 cases added (4,593,721 to 5,049,465))’

So more than 1 out of 4 cases were in children. They are now filling the pediatric hospitals as well. Very scary time to be a parent.

They might have vaccine available for children by Halloween. (FOX TV).

[drducat]

It seems that they are purposely ignoring those who had and recovered from Covid...

I can't figure out why that is... But I have my suspicions...

Same here....your good to go for most likely 20 years or so.

[drducat]

With the highly contagious delta variant, which can reinfect those who had Covid before, the vaccine mostly protects the person vaccinated. In one week over one million new cases in the US.

And children:

‘Change in Child COVID-19 Cases*

251,781 child COVID-19 cases were reported the past week from 8/26/21-9/2/21 (4,797,683 to 5,049,465) and children represented 26.8% (251,781/939,470) of the weekly reported cases
Over two weeks, 8/19/21-9/2/21, there was a 10% increase in the cumulated number of child COVID-19 cases since the beginning of the pandemic (455,744 cases added (4,593,721 to 5,049,465))’

So more than 1 out of 4 cases were in children. They are now filling the pediatric hospitals as well. Very scary time to be a parent.

They might have vaccine available for children by Halloween. (FOX TV).

Maybe or maybe not...good read though....these jabs are risky...

Dr. Vladimir Zelenko Discusses How Covid-19 Shots Might Reduce Lifespan (https://basedunderground.com/2021/07/04/dr-vladimir-zelenko-discusses-how-covid-19-shots-might-reduce-lifespan/)

[Byte1]

Except I'd never do that @ Publix...

If a business asks me to wear a mask, and I choose to be a patron of said business, I'll put on a mask...

The juice just ain't worth the squeeze...

Now, if someone harasses me on the street about not wearing a mask, we'll have a serious problem...

The sign at Walmart suggests that, or asks that we wear a mask but does not mandate it. They also offer a paper mask at the door. Sorry, but like many others I do not wear the mask since they are not demanding compliance. Either the vaccine works or it does not. If that bothers folks, they should stay their distance and act as if I am not vaccinated. If they are vaccinated and wearing a mask, good for them. I hope they live a long and useless life. Because if you are going to live life in constant fear, why bother?
This is my choice and I do not attempt to encourage anyone to do what they feel is unsafe. That is my disclaimer. :ho:

[Velvet]

Well, Byte1, it is the unvaccinated by far, who catch Covid although that will likely change as the vaccine without a booster will be less and less protective to the vaccinated. And the ‘live free or die’ type tend not to get vaccinated in the first place. The virus looks for easy targets. Like them. Yum! It is resilient, it is a survivor. Are we?

[Nipper]

Far right website. No thanks.

MSM is my preferred news source and to obtain my information from. It is "main stream", not extreme.


Thank you!!!

[Malsua]

Comirnaty is non existent.....try to find some.....not being made yet...maybe in a couple of years...good luck.

I think you could make a _legal_ argument that you will indeed vaccinate as mandated, once the vaccine that has full FDA approval is available. Labels matter. If the label doesn't say Comirnaty, it's not the FDA approved vaccine and hence cannot be mandated.

If that takes 2 years, so it goes.

[drducat]

I think you could make a _legal_ argument that you will indeed vaccinate as mandated, once the vaccine that has full FDA approval is available. Labels matter. If the label doesn't say Comirnaty, it's not the FDA approved vaccine and hence cannot be mandated.

If that takes 2 years, so it goes.

The people involved are beginning to leave.....these 2 over the booster....Sorry fox has this listed....read..not sure what the video says.

COVID-19 vaccine boosters unnecessary for most, say FDA advisers reportedly resigning over issue | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19-vaccine-booster-unnecessary-fda-resigning)

[JMintzer]

Comirnaty is non existent.....try to find some.....not being made yet...maybe in a couple of years...good luck.

It's just the Pfizer vaccine w/a new name... (And yes, I had to look that up...)

[JMintzer]

Same here....your good to go for most likely 20 years or so.

Well, I know that I'm good for at least 18 months, since that's how long it's been since I had Covid and when I had an antibody test last month...

[drducat]

It's just the Pfizer vaccine w/a new name... (And yes, I had to look that up...)

Pfizer is still under emergency authorization use...No Liabilities.

The BioNTech is the same formula and is approved with no liability protection....so, they are not producing this under BioNTech label...Only Pfizer label.....if something goes wrong your on your own until BioNTech is taken, then you have grounds.

Pfizer refuses to replay the litigation it has gone thru in the past and made the case they would not produce unless given a waiver.

[coffeebean]

That is where all the valid info is coming from...UK and Israel.The only countries with honest data...US has been tell fibs and too many are buying it....

Their data is honest for Britain but can not be used as a comparison for the US. As I already said......apples and oranges.

[SkBlogW]

Their data is honest for Britain but can not be used as a comparison for the US. As I already said......apples and oranges.

It appears our scientists disagree with you. But don't feel bad, there is a bombastic individual here that says Israel data doesn't matter because "geography" and "diversity" :shocked:

JERUSALEM, Sept 5 (Reuters) - Israel this month will present data from an extensive rollout of COVID-19 vaccine booster shots to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, which is weighing White House plans to begin a booster drive in the United States.

Sharon Alroy-Preis, head of public health at Israel's Health Ministry, said the ministry had been asked by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to brief its advisors at a Sept. 17 meeting.

Israel to present COVID-19 booster shot data to FDA experts | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-present-covid-19-booster-shot-data-fda-experts-2021-09-05/)

Israeli data on Covid-19 vaccine boosters to publish in prominent medical journal ahead of key FDA committee meeting next week

Israeli data on Covid-19 vaccine boosters to publish in prominent medical journal ahead of key FDA committee meeting next week - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/10/health/covid-booster-israel-data-fda-meeting/index.html)

NIH director says new Israeli Covid data is building case for booster shots in the U.S.

Covid vaccine booster shots: NIH director says new Israel data is building case in the U.S. (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/17/covid-vaccine-booster-shots-nih-director-says-new-israel-data-is-building-case-in-the-us.html)

Fauci: ‘Dramatic Data’ From Israel Support COVID-19 Boosters

Fauci: 'Dramatic Data' From Israel Support COVID-19 Boosters - Chronicles Health (https://www.chronicleshealth.com/news/fauci-dramatic-data-from-israel-support-covid-19-boosters/)

[Bill14564]

Fact Check-Media reports have not lied about Pfizer-BioNTech’s FDA approval (https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-fda-pfizer/fact-check-media-reports-have-not-lied-about-pfizer-biontechs-fda-approval-idUSL1N2PY0OL)
Fact check: FDA has fully approved Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/08/26/fact-check-fda-fully-approved-pfizers-coronavirus-vaccine/5594543001/)
The false claim that the fully-approved Pfizer vaccine lacks liability protection (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/30/false-claim-that-fully-approved-pfizer-vaccine-lacks-liability-protection/)
Fact Check: Pfizer vaccine fully approved (https://www.whec.com/news/fact-check-pfizer-vaccine-fully-approved/6224636/)
Claim that the first COVID-19 vaccine that was approved by the FDA is somehow different than the "Pfizer vaccine" currently available is misleading (https://www.newswise.com/factcheck/claim-that-the-first-covid-19-vaccine-that-was-approved-by-the-fda-is-somehow-different-than-than-the-pfizer-vaccine-currently-available-is-misleading/?article_id=756484)
Researcher Distorts Facts on COVID-19 Vaccine Approval, Liability (https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/scicheck-researcher-distorts-facts-on-covid-19-vaccine-approval-liability/)

From the FactCheck article:

Malone did not respond to our request for comment, but acknowledged in an Aug. 30 tweet that he was “wrong” about the purported differences in liability. Malone told the Washington Post‘s Fact Checker: “On this particular legal liability issue I did not hunt down the details myself, and relied on comments from a third party lawyer which were not fully correct.”

Those are six separate fact checks on the same topic. Can you provide even two that support your position and don't come from Malone, Bannon, Kennedy, or the My Pillow guy?

[coffeebean]

To think this is happening is outlandish.....

FDA ‘playing bait and switch’ with Americans, tricking them into believing shots currently being offered have been granted full approval when they have not – LeoHohmann.com (https://leohohmann.com/2021/08/25/fda-playing-bait-and-switch-with-americans-tricking-them-into-believing-shots-currently-being-offered-have-been-granted-full-approval-when-they-have-not/)

This is not news to me. I read about this as at least a couple of weeks ago right after the full FDA approval was given to the Pfizer vaccine. This is not being hidden from the American people and there is no bait and switch going on.

[coffeebean]

This is a huge WOW. As I have been saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. And...The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior!

The head of the CDC in 1976 was squirming for sure. He was not being transparent at all about the Swine Flu vaccine side effects. Having said that, Guillian Barre Syndrome is a very well known potential side effect of vaccines and has been for years.

The CDC has been very transparent with the possible side effects of these current vaccines for Covid. Guillian Barre Syndrome is also a possible side effect of the Covid vaccines. This is not news to me and this information has been very well publicized.

Just a moment... (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ccr3.4756)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The head of the CDC in 1976 was squirming for sure. He was not being transparent at all about the Swine Flu vaccine side effects. Having said that, Guillian Barre Syndrome is a very well known potential side effect of vaccines and has been for years.

The CDC has been very transparent with the possible side effects of these current vaccines for Covid. Guillian Barre Syndrome is also a possible side effect of the Covid vaccines. This is not news to me and this information has been very well publicized.

Wiley Online Library (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ccr3.4756)

This isn't true. It's not a "side effect" of the virus. The cause of Guillian-Barre syndrome is still not known. It is believed (but not confirmed) that it MIGHT be TRIGGERED by having COVID-19, and possibly by the J&J vaccine as well.

It is also believed that it MIGHT be triggered by eating uncooked or undercooked poultry that has the campylobactor bacteria in it, Zika, Hepatitis (A, B, C, and E), CMV, recent surgery, respiratory or digestive tract infection, and ventilation, and a list of other possible triggers.

In fact, the vaccine AND Covid-19 are both considered RARE possible triggers, compared with all of the other possible triggers. Eating undercooked poultry is the most common trigger.

Lastly, Guillian-Barre syndrome is, in and of itself, a rare disorder. It's not likely that anyone would ever have it in the first place. And for those rare few who do, it is USUALLY triggered by something OTHER than the J&J vaccine or being sick with COVID-19.

Here's my source for this information:

Guillain-Barre syndrome - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/guillain-barre-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20362793)



You can check the Mayo Clinic website on Guillain-Barre syndrome,

[jimjamuser]

Vaccine passports could indicate date of expiration and date of renewal when boosters show full vaccination status as now in Israel. But that’s not really what you are asking?

And …

‘The vaccines were 87 percent effective overall at preventing hospitalization, protection that remained relatively consistent before and after Delta became the country’s dominant variant, the study shows. But that figure masks notable differences between age groups. The shots were only 80 percent effective at keeping adults over 65 from being hospitalized with Covid, while they were 95 percent effective for people between ages 18 and 64.’

is probably explained by the fact that the older people got vaccinated first and therefore their vaccines are older and had more time to wane.
UNvaccinated people are 11 times MORE likely to die from CV than vaccinated people!

[Two Bills]

Our cat has not been vaccinated, had Covid, worn a mask, and never once has socially distanced herself in public.
We now live on Meow Mix Original, the best protection out there!

[CFrance]

Our cat has not been vaccinated, had Covid, worn a mask, and never once has socially distanced herself in public.
We now live on Meow Mix Original, the best protection out there!
Our dog has stuck his nose many places it shouldn't be, yet continues to be virus-resistant.:icon_wink:

[Velvet]

UNvaccinated people are 11 times MORE likely to die from CV than vaccinated people!

Yes, as of now, but it looks like the protection of the mRNA vaccine is dropping. And not proportionally to time lapsed since getting the vaccine, but logarithmically. Therefore the need for boosters.

[lkagele]

Asymptomatic breakthrough cases go uncounted all the time, just as asymptomatic cases of the un-vaccinated go uncounted. There is no need to get tested if you are not having symptoms unless you need to test for travel or employment or whatever other reason there may be.

So......why bother to count those breakthrough cases at all? The purpose of our vaccines was always to minimize the symptoms of Covid and prevent death. I do understand the reason for the CDC to stop counting breakthrough cases unless those cases result in hospitalization and death. Those are the cases the vaccine failed to do what it was supposed to do. Those are the cases that need to be counted.

All my opinion.

Then we were lied to. Here's what the CDC was saying early on about the vaccines

COVID-19 vaccines are effective
COVID 19-vaccines are effective. They can keep you from getting and spreading the virus that causes COVID-19

Agree that the breakthrough hospitalizations and deaths are more important. I'm suspicious, however, why it's not counting other breakthrough cases. Isn't it the CDC's business to track and record statistics?

[lkagele]

Report from the Cleveland Clinic:

People who have previously been infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 are protected against being infected again and thus don’t need to be vaccinated, according to a new study.

“Our conclusion is that if you were previously infected, you are protected because of the previous infection and you don’t need the vaccine,” Dr. Nabin Shrestha, of the Cleveland Clinic’s Department of Infectious Disease, told The Epoch Times.

Shrestha and colleagues at the clinic studied data on employees, separating them into four groups: previously infected and unvaccinated, previously infected and vaccinated, not previously infected and unvaccinated, and not previously infected and vaccinated.

They found the vaccines were strongly effective in preventing infection from the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) virus, which causes COVID-19, but that previous infection also bestowed a natural immunity.

“Among the people who were previously infected, whether they took the vaccine or not, there really were no COVID cases,” Shrestha said.

Of the 52,238 employees studied, 2,579 were previously infected. About half of those remained unvaccinated. Of the 49,659 employees who did not have a previous infection, 41 percent did not get a vaccine.

Oh my. We can't use a study like that. It doesn't justify total vaccine mandates......

[Boomer]

Our cat has not been vaccinated, had Covid, worn a mask, and never once has socially distanced herself in public.
We now live on Meow Mix Original, the best protection out there!

Our dog has stuck his nose many places it shouldn't be, yet continues to be virus-resistant.:icon_wink:

Well, I am making my laptop keep its mask on because I sure do not want it to get a virus. . .

My iPad leaves the house with me sometimes and has a mask for every occasion, but my laptop just sits around on my desk all day wearing one of those blue ones from the box.

So far -- no viruses for either one.

Boomer

[lkagele]

Can you post a source for your claim that no one died from flu, heart disease, or cancer? This report (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234) seems to show otherwise.

If the Covid death numbers are just cooked, do you have an explanation for the approximately 550,000 additional deaths in 2020?

What prerequisite screening processes were skipped?

Little difference in the death rate over the last 5 or so years. No doubt countries are 'cooking the books' for whatever reason when it comes to death rates. Last I looked, China was declaring less the 5000 COVID deaths. Does anyone really think that's accurate.

United States - Historical Death Rate Data
Year Death Rate Growth Rate
2021 8.977 1.090%
2020 8.880 1.120%
2019 8.782 1.120%
2018 8.685 1.220%
2017 8.580 1.240%

[Bill14564]

Little difference in the death rate over the last 5 or so years. No doubt countries are 'cooking the books' for whatever reason when it comes to death rates. Last I looked, China was declaring less the 5000 COVID deaths. Does anyone really think that's accurate.

United States - Historical Death Rate Data
Year Death Rate Growth Rate
2021 8.977 1.090%
2020 8.880 1.120%
2019 8.782 1.120%
2018 8.685 1.220%
2017 8.580 1.240%

Where did that come from? The CDC shows 588,000 additional deaths in 2020 (approx 20% increase) and while the data are preliminary it appears 2021 is on pace to match that

[drducat]

This is not news to me. I read about this as at least a couple of weeks ago right after the full FDA approval was given to the Pfizer vaccine. This is not being hidden from the American people and there is no bait and switch going on.

That is not correct...Pfizer is emergency use approved only...read the FDA paper and not msnbc or cnn...etc.

[jimjamuser]

Health care professor?? LOL With no link we have no idea when he said it and what data he was analyzing. The CDC funded study I linked in OP shows 16% of hospitalizations were fully vaccinated from June 20 to July 17, at start of Delata surge.

Probably percentage is higher now due to delta surge peaking at very high levels, and more time for vaccine efficacy to go lower. Israel reported as high as 40% when they hit peak delta surge.

Follow the science dude!!
I DO follow the Science. That's why I KNOW what Dr. Ashish Jha of Brown University has said MANY times on mainstream TV. I trust what I see on MSM and NOT the rot that is on dark, extreme media and SOME dark places on Facebook - that is regurgitated by the strange Anti-Vaccine-types that I read making statements on TV Land forums and getting their thrills by starting Threads of Propaganda often.

A really large factual Federal study out recently states that the mRNA vaccines are still 87% effective against hospitalizations even WITH the DELTA variant. It also states that DEATHS are 11 times as great for the UNvaccinated compared to the Vaccinated!

[jswirs]

The head of the CDC in 1976 was squirming for sure. He was not being transparent at all about the Swine Flu vaccine side effects. Having said that, Guillian Barre Syndrome is a very well known potential side effect of vaccines and has been for years.

The CDC has been very transparent with the possible side effects of these current vaccines for Covid. Guillian Barre Syndrome is also a possible side effect of the Covid vaccines. This is not news to me and this information has been very well publicized.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ccr3.4756

Really? Not according to the average John Q. Public. All they have heard is "Get the vaccine, it's safe" And I, for one, would never describe the CDC being "very transparent" with any involved risk. One needs to seek out that information, it is not on any form you are given to sign before getting the injection.

[jimjamuser]

Just a thought:
How many HEALTHY people are dying from Covid?
If healthy people are not dying from Covid, and a vaccination does NOT keep healthy people from being infected, then is it REALLY important that healthy folks get vaccinated?
Do healthy children really NEED to be vaccinated for Covid at this time? Perhaps more research and testing should be conducted?
Do healthy folks need a booster shot if it does not keep them from becoming infected and when infected they do not need to worry about dying from Covid?
Just some thoughts, that sets aside the hysteria and panic and just asks some basic questions.
Like I have said before, I have had my shots. Do I intend on getting a booster? I am healthy, no medications, and just vitamins. So, my debate with myself is the pros and cons of getting the booster. If it is not necessary, then why subject the body with a foreign substance that may or may not have long term effects? Since I am in my twilight years, does any long term effects even matter?
Do manipulated stats really mean anything to me? Does anyone else's safety mean anything to me, other than my family and close friends? Do I wish to take responsibility for other folks safety when there is no proof that I would have any effect regardless of what I do?
Mandated masks that have very little effect.
Mandated vaccinations that may not even protect you.
Shut down services
Destroy the economy
Delay children's education for years
Delay important surgeries

Evil is having a great time and celebrating the world's panic.
Yes agreed, just take zinc. And try and ONLY care about yourself and near relatives. That is the SMALL-tribal theory of human society.

[coffeebean]

It appears our scientists disagree with you. But don't feel bad, there is a bombastic individual here that says Israel data doesn't matter because "geography" and "diversity" :shocked:

JERUSALEM, Sept 5 (Reuters) - Israel this month will present data from an extensive rollout of COVID-19 vaccine booster shots to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, which is weighing White House plans to begin a booster drive in the United States.

Sharon Alroy-Preis, head of public health at Israel's Health Ministry, said the ministry had been asked by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to brief its advisors at a Sept. 17 meeting.

Israel to present COVID-19 booster shot data to FDA experts | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-present-covid-19-booster-shot-data-fda-experts-2021-09-05/)

Israeli data on Covid-19 vaccine boosters to publish in prominent medical journal ahead of key FDA committee meeting next week

Israeli data on Covid-19 vaccine boosters to publish in prominent medical journal ahead of key FDA committee meeting next week - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/10/health/covid-booster-israel-data-fda-meeting/index.html)

NIH director says new Israeli Covid data is building case for booster shots in the U.S.

Covid vaccine booster shots: NIH director says new Israel data is building case in the U.S. (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/17/covid-vaccine-booster-shots-nih-director-says-new-israel-data-is-building-case-in-the-us.html)

Fauci: ‘Dramatic Data’ From Israel Support COVID-19 Boosters

Fauci: 'Dramatic Data' From Israel Support COVID-19 Boosters - Chronicles Health (https://www.chronicleshealth.com/news/fauci-dramatic-data-from-israel-support-covid-19-boosters/)

Data from Israel is relevant to the US as they predominantly used Pfizer to vaccinated their citizens and they adhered to the interval recommended by the manufacturer. My hesitation is to compare Britain to the US for reasons I have already stated in a previous post.

[jimjamuser]

Their data is honest for Britain but can not be used as a comparison for the US. As I already said......apples and oranges.
Britain and Israel have Universal Health Care. They ARE real countries that CARE about their population - in contrast to the US, which is neanderthal-like and exists in the dark ages with respect to Public Healthcare.

[Two Bills]

Our dog has stuck his nose many places it shouldn't be, yet continues to be virus-resistant.:icon_wink:

I like the story of how dogs always sniff other dogs backsides first.
Evidently back in the early days of evolution, dogs used to leave their backsides at the cloakroom check in when entering a doggy establishment.
One night there was a fire, and in the panic to leave, dogs just grabbed the first backside they could get their hands on.
They have been searching ever since for their own lost posterior.
:ohdear:

[jimjamuser]

Our dog has stuck his nose many places it shouldn't be, yet continues to be virus-resistant.:icon_wink:
And my dog had hypnotherapy and acupuncture therapy and has ALWAYS tested negative for CV!

[coffeebean]

This isn't true. It's not a "side effect" of the virus. The cause of Guillian-Barre syndrome is still not known. It is believed (but not confirmed) that it MIGHT be TRIGGERED by having COVID-19, and possibly by the J&J vaccine as well.

It is also believed that it MIGHT be triggered by eating uncooked or undercooked poultry that has the campylobactor bacteria in it, Zika, Hepatitis (A, B, C, and E), CMV, recent surgery, respiratory or digestive tract infection, and ventilation, and a list of other possible triggers.

In fact, the vaccine AND Covid-19 are both considered RARE possible triggers, compared with all of the other possible triggers. Eating undercooked poultry is the most common trigger.

Lastly, Guillian-Barre syndrome is, in and of itself, a rare disorder. It's not likely that anyone would ever have it in the first place. And for those rare few who do, it is USUALLY triggered by something OTHER than the J&J vaccine or being sick with COVID-19.

Here's my source for this information:

Guillain-Barre syndrome - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/guillain-barre-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20362793)



You can check the Mayo Clinic website on Guillain-Barre syndrome,
Thank you for this information. I don't know why but I have always understood vaccines to be a cause of this very rare syndrome. I have also thought that the vaccine hesitancy we have here in the US is due to the very rare possibility of this specific syndrome. This comes from long before Covid too.

[Two Bills]

Britain and Israel have Universal Health Care. They ARE real countries that CARE about their population - in contrast to the US, which is neanderthal-like and exists in the dark ages with respect to Public Healthcare.

You should see our waiting lists for treatments since the pandemic started!
I paid privately to have my knee replaced, as I could not wait for a year or more for surgery.
No system has the perfect answer.

[coffeebean]

That is not correct...Pfizer is emergency use approved only...read the FDA paper and not msnbc or cnn...etc.

Pfizer has received full FDA approval for their formula which is the exact same as the Pfizer vaccine already in use but under a different brand name. This is being reported on MSM. There has been full transparency about the differences.

[jimjamuser]

You should see our waiting lists for treatments since the pandemic started!
I paid privately to have my knee replaced, as I could not wait for a year or more for surgery.
No system has the perfect answer.
True.....there is NO perfect........ANYTHING. If I were to try to IMPROVE US healthcare other than making it ALL universal like the V.A. and Medicare - I would check to see why the medical schools are NOT minting MORE Doctors? Possibly it IS a covert way to drive the DEMAND up by artificially keeping the SUPPLY down.

I personally, knew a doctor that had to go to MEXICO and learn Spanish in order to study MEDICINE. Perhaps, just an N of 1 - I am NOT sure?

[drducat]

Pfizer has received full FDA approval for their formula which is the exact same as the Pfizer vaccine already in use but under a different brand name. This is being reported on MSM. There has been full transparency about the differences.

Right and if you get really sick with a life long illness from the vaccine...you are on your own....unless you take the BioNTech label...then you can go after them but never Pfizer. they are protected.....so ask for the BioNTech label and watch the look on their face.

[drducat]

Now this is outrageous and these people should be jailed......INFLATING NUMBERS!!!!

https://twitter.com/i/status/1436466927703138308

[Irishmen]

I can find no evidence that people who are fully vaccinated account for 14 percent of hospitalization.

The Delta Variant is FAR more contagious and there have been many break through cases that I am aware of personally, but only one who was hospitalized: Dr. Boogie on this forum.

Just last month it was misinformation to say you could be jabbed and still catch and transmit. Then, it was explained it was the un-jabbed causing the outbreak. So whats the excuse for Israel, one of the most jabbed nations in the world is now on thier 4th wave of infections and thousands are getting sick, being hospitalized and dying. Israel is the canary in the mine shaft. A preview of what we are likely to face in coming months. Israel is already on they 4th booster. The narrtive of safe and effective is starting to get away from the establishment. Bill Gates is real happy these days....

[Velvet]

Just last month it was misinformation to say you could be jabbed and still catch and transmit. Then, it was explained it was the un-jabbed causing the outbreak. So whats the excuse for Israel, one of the most jabbed nations in the world is now on thier 4th wave of infections and thousands are getting sick, being hospitalized and dying. Israel is the canary in the mine shaft. A preview of what we are likely to face in coming months. Israel is already on they 4th booster. The narrtive of safe and effective is starting to get away from the establishment. Bill Gates is real happy these days....

The problem with Covid that I see, is that the truth is very inconvenient. Anything else is better.

[blueash]

drducat
To think this is happening is outlandish.....

FDA ‘playing bait and switch’ with Americans, tricking them into believing shots currently being offered have been granted full approval when they have not – LeoHohmann.com

Posted by coffeebean
This is not news to me. I read about this as at least a couple of weeks ago right after the full FDA approval was given to the Pfizer vaccine. This is not being hidden from the American people and there is no bait and switch going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drducat
That is not correct...Pfizer is emergency use approved only...read the FDA paper and not msnbc or cnn...etc.

Of course ducat was corrected. He is getting his opinion from far right wing blogs.

Pfizer has received full FDA approval for their formula which is the exact same as the Pfizer vaccine already in use but under a different brand name. This is being reported on MSM. There has been full transparency about the differences.

and instead of admitting the error, learning from it, maybe even thanking the poster for adding to his knowledge and apologizing for posting false information, we get this reply


Right and if you get really sick with a life long illness from the vaccine...you are on your own....unless you take the BioNTech label...then you can go after them but never Pfizer. they are protected.....so ask for the BioNTech label and watch the look on their face.

Ducat is wrong again. I'm not sure whose face we are supposed to look at, but his (or her) understanding of vaccine liability in the US is wrong. When you get almost any vaccine in this country the manufacturer's liability is covered by a federal program. This is not unique to Covid shots. It is true of the MMR, the DTap etc. All the Covid vaccines, not just Pfizer's are covered by the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program. Vaccines for children and pregnant women are covered under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program which was signed into law by Reagan in 1986.

And there is no such thing as a stand alone "the BioNTech vaccine." The correct name and the name that was used in emergency approval is Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine. (https://www.fda.gov/media/150386/download) Once Pfizer -BioNTech got full authorization for use of this vaccine in people 16 and older they then rebranded with a commercial name, Comirnaty, while the identical vaccine being given under emergency authorization is still Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine for those 12 to 15. Further, the authorization allows the use of either of these vaccines in all circumstances where either is authorized, because they are identical. If all I have in my freezer is Comirnaty and I wish to vaccinate a 12 year old it can be used. If all I have is Pfizer-BioNTech and I wish to immunize a 60 year old I can use it. A Datsun is a Nissan, a Nissan is a Datsun. So simple to understand.

You can read the history of the association (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizer%E2%80%93BioNTech_COVID-19_vaccine) of Pfizer, a US company, and BioNTech, a German company in the development [all in Germany], manufacture, and sales of this vaccine.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by lkagele
Little difference in the death rate over the last 5 or so years. No doubt countries are 'cooking the books' for whatever reason when it comes to death rates. Last I looked, China was declaring less the 5000 COVID deaths. Does anyone really think that's accurate.

United States - Historical Death Rate Data
Year Death Rate Growth Rate
2021 8.977 1.090%
2020 8.880 1.120%
2019 8.782 1.120%
2018 8.685 1.220%
2017 8.580 1.240%

I finally found where he got those numbers that he is clinging tightly to prove Covid is a hoax...After all if US death rates did not go up, then Covid isn't killing people. From a google search see image below. What he did NOT do is click on the link where it says in a great big highlighted box

NOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.

Sometimes Google alone is not enough. But at least you provided another example of my sig line, that people will find something to support their opinion no matter how wrong their material may be.

[graciegirl]

Just last month it was misinformation to say you could be jabbed and still catch and transmit. Then, it was explained it was the un-jabbed causing the outbreak. So whats the excuse for Israel, one of the most jabbed nations in the world is now on thier 4th wave of infections and thousands are getting sick, being hospitalized and dying. Israel is the canary in the mine shaft. A preview of what we are likely to face in coming months. Israel is already on they 4th booster. The narrtive of safe and effective is starting to get away from the establishment. Bill Gates is real happy these days....

I do see, and I do worry about the break through cases. In my home, daughter and I are once again staying away from the fun of painting and doing crafts at the rec centers and mostly because she so dislikes to wear masks for long periods of time.

I don't doubt at all that there are many break through cases. I just am skeptical that fourteen percent of those hospitalized with Covid have been completely vaccinated. I could be wrong.

We can banter all we want to on here but Blue Ash and Eagle are both M.D.s and they didn't get their certification out of a Cheerio's box.

They sometimes differ politically but they give us good info about medicine.

So grateful for both of them.

I am a retired person educated in Early Childhood Development. I had a lot of experience accompanying our daughter who was born with Williams Syndrome through many, many, many medical procedures and hospitalizations at a wonderfully skilled place; Cincinnati Children's Hospital. Every single person I met there were doing it by the books. They taught me to respect the traditional medical community. I have not changed.

[Byte1]

Well, Byte1, it is the unvaccinated by far, who catch Covid although that will likely change as the vaccine without a booster will be less and less protective to the vaccinated. And the ‘live free or die’ type tend not to get vaccinated in the first place. The virus looks for easy targets. Like them. Yum! It is resilient, it is a survivor. Are we?

The problem with your supposition is that you(and many others) are assuming that anyone without a vaccination and anyone without a mask are INFECTED and contagious.
What are the chances that you will encounter someone that is infected?
In such an encounter, what is the chance that you will become infected?
If infected, what is the chance that you will be hospitalized?
If hospitalized, what is the chance that you will DIE?
Taking all that into consideration , your best bet is to wear thick body armor and stay away from any area that has moving vehicles, do not use mobile transportation of any type, and drink only distilled water.
I have no problem with vaccinations. I also have no problem with those that do not get vaccinated. Looking at the law of probability regarding the chance of my getting infected with or without a vaccination and with or without a mask, I am not fooled by the media and the gov into thinking that I need a nanny to mandate every facet of my lifestyle. And patriotism is not an issue here, so lets drop that tactic.
I can support vaccinations but I do not believe in mandates of this sort.
But staying on subject, I am not sure whether or not I will obtain a booster. And as of this time, the booster is not really supported by the federal gov research. If and when they decide that it might be advantageous, I might consider it. But, since I am in great shape and better than many that have survived the virus, I may abstain from participation.

[Bill14564]

I finally found where he got those numbers that he is clinging tightly to prove Covid is a hoax...After all if US death rates did not go up, then Covid isn't killing people. From a google search see image below. What he did NOT do is click on the link where it says in a great big highlighted box

NOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.

Sometimes Google alone is not enough. But at least you provided another example of my sig line, that people will find something to support their opinion no matter how wrong their material may be.

Thank you for taking the time to find that.

I cannot get exactly the same death rates, probably because I don't have the same population numbers that the chart is using. However, the numbers I calculate are close, right up until 2020:

Year : Death rate (/1,000)
2017 : 8.699
2018 : 8.723
2019 : 8.705
2020 : 10.432

[Byte1]

Well, Byte1, it is the unvaccinated by far, who catch Covid although that will likely change as the vaccine without a booster will be less and less protective to the vaccinated. And the ‘live free or die’ type tend not to get vaccinated in the first place. The virus looks for easy targets. Like them. Yum! It is resilient, it is a survivor. Are we?

I have never assumed that everyone I met had HIV, and I do not assume that everyone I meet has Covid. Guess I am an optimist. I have to disagree with you regarding the virus "looks for easy targets." I believe that the virus, IF/IF one has it resides in the infected and is ONLY going to infect others purely by chance. I believe I can walk past infected folks, even pausing a minute and not become infected. I believe that the chance of me becoming infected is less than the average social person, since I hardly socialize in groups. I am not part of THE COLLECTIVE and I do not believe in one hat fitting all. I have been vaccinated and worn my mask when shopping, and yet the virus infection rate is as high as it was a year ago. I have done my part and now I believe the virus should run its course. If you are diligent about staying away from others and keeping your hands clean, I believe you have a chance of surviving. If you are ill, stay at home and ovoid infecting others. When all is said and done, if we have half the population in the world, we have been successful. IMO.

[Velvet]

The problem with your supposition is that you(and many others) are assuming that anyone without a vaccination and anyone without a mask are INFECTED and contagious.
What are the chances that you will encounter someone that is infected?
In such an encounter, what is the chance that you will become infected?
If infected, what is the chance that you will be hospitalized?
If hospitalized, what is the chance that you will DIE?
Taking all that into consideration , your best bet is to wear thick body armor and stay away from any area that has moving vehicles, do not use mobile transportation of any type, and drink only distilled water.
I have no problem with vaccinations. I also have no problem with those that do not get vaccinated. Looking at the law of probability regarding the chance of my getting infected with or without a vaccination and with or without a mask, I am not fooled by the media and the gov into thinking that I need a nanny to mandate every facet of my lifestyle. And patriotism is not an issue here, so lets drop that tactic.
I can support vaccinations but I do not believe in mandates of this sort.
But staying on subject, I am not sure whether or not I will obtain a booster. And as of this time, the booster is not really supported by the federal gov research. If and when they decide that it might be advantageous, I might consider it. But, since I am in great shape and better than many that have survived the virus, I may abstain from participation.

Actually, I do not assume anything, just look at data that is available from anywhere in the world and about anything to do with Covid. I believe if one does not learn from others then one is due to experience it themselves.

[jimjamuser]

Yes, as of now, but it looks like the protection of the mRNA vaccine is dropping. And not proportionally to time lapsed since getting the vaccine, but logarithmically. Therefore the need for boosters.
Yes, it is dropping but NOT NECESSARILY DIRECTLY proportional to TIME-LAPSED. The time depends on the person's age - greater age means greater drop, in general. But, not for everyone. It also depends on the individual's inherent ability to RETAIN the anti-bodies that their own body produced against the CV - there are individual differences, based on some (?) yet to be studied internal human mechanisms for disease protection. Also, Co-morbidities, immuno-suppressant diseases, organ transplant recipients, and the medications taken for these and other diseases seem to negatively impact the effectiveness of the vaccine over time. AND there are probably MORE factors as yet to be studied.
Incidentally......it is interesting to note that 3 or 4 national radio hosts that WERE famously against vaccinations (so-called jabs) are now INFAMOUS for having DIED painfully of CV in a hospital. They stated that they WISHED that they had gotten VACCINATED. Personally, I would not be waiting for God to vaccinate me - I did and would again ask for an earthly vaccination against the deadly disease - CV.

[Bob.Betty]

that is why i don't get a flu shot either

[Velvet]

Yes, it is dropping but NOT NECESSARILY DIRECTLY proportional to TIME-LAPSED. The time depends on the person's age - greater age means greater drop, in general. But, not for everyone. It also depends on the individual's inherent ability to RETAIN the anti-bodies that their own body produced against the CV - there are individual differences, based on some (?) yet to be studied internal human mechanisms for disease protection. Also, Co-morbidities, immuno-suppressant diseases, organ transplant recipients, and the medications taken for these and other diseases seem to negatively impact the effectiveness of the vaccine over time. AND there are probably MORE factors as yet to be studied.
Incidentally......it is interesting to note that 3 or 4 national radio hosts that WERE famously against vaccinations (so-called jabs) are now INFAMOUS for having DIED painfully of CV in a hospital. They stated that they WISHED that they had gotten VACCINATED. Personally, I would not be waiting for God to vaccinate me - I did and would again ask for an earthly vaccination against the deadly disease - CV.

What! No Divine intervention for you? LOL

[coffeebean]

Right and if you get really sick with a life long illness from the vaccine...you are on your own....unless you take the BioNTech label...then you can go after them but never Pfizer. they are protected.....so ask for the BioNTech label and watch the look on their face.

I am aware of this.

[coffeebean]

Quote:


Of course ducat was corrected. He is getting his opinion from far right wing blogs.



and instead of admitting the error, learning from it, maybe even thanking the poster for adding to his knowledge and apologizing for posting false information, we get this reply




Ducat is wrong again. I'm not sure whose face we are supposed to look at, but his (or her) understanding of vaccine liability in the US is wrong. When you get almost any vaccine in this country the manufacturer's liability is covered by a federal program. This is not unique to Covid shots. It is true of the MMR, the DTap etc. All the Covid vaccines, not just Pfizer's are covered by the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program. Vaccines for children and pregnant women are covered under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program which was signed into law by Reagan in 1986.

And there is no such thing as a stand alone "the BioNTech vaccine." The correct name and the name that was used in emergency approval is Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine. (https://www.fda.gov/media/150386/download) Once Pfizer -BioNTech got full authorization for use of this vaccine in people 16 and older they then rebranded with a commercial name, Comirnaty, while the identical vaccine being given under emergency authorization is still Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine for those 12 to 15. Further, the authorization allows the use of either of these vaccines in all circumstances where either is authorized, because they are identical. If all I have in my freezer is Comirnaty and I wish to vaccinate a 12 year old it can be used. If all I have is Pfizer-BioNTech and I wish to immunize a 60 year old I can use it. A Datsun is a Nissan, a Nissan is a Datsun. So simple to understand.

You can read the history of the association (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizer%E2%80%93BioNTech_COVID-19_vaccine) of Pfizer, a US company, and BioNTech, a German company in the development [all in Germany], manufacture, and sales of this vaccine.

Thank you for this host of information. I was not aware of the Federal program which covers recipients for adverse reactions and if an individual is harmed from vaccines. This is the first I am hearing this and I am thankful that people are not hung out in the breeze if they encounter problems from vaccines.

[drducat]

Just last month it was misinformation to say you could be jabbed and still catch and transmit. Then, it was explained it was the un-jabbed causing the outbreak. So whats the excuse for Israel, one of the most jabbed nations in the world is now on thier 4th wave of infections and thousands are getting sick, being hospitalized and dying. Israel is the canary in the mine shaft. A preview of what we are likely to face in coming months. Israel is already on they 4th booster. The narrtive of safe and effective is starting to get away from the establishment. Bill Gates is real happy these days....
I keep posting this and here is one more time...a quick search finds data supporting this....Vaccinated are causing the variants why? Because this vaccine is a partial immunity vaccine....Non Sterilizing Vaccine...Only reaches B-CELL IMMUNITY...Thats it folks...simple as that. Vaccinated are infected and by shear numbers the virus figures out how to bypass this simple immunity from the jabs which creates a new variant.

[coffeebean]

I am aware of this.

Quoting myself here........

Since I wrote this reply, I was informed differently. There is so much to be learned about this entire scenario we are all dealing with. Knowing there is Federal assistance in place for people who are harmed by vaccines, makes me breathe a sigh of relief. That is one "excuse" anti-vaxxers will have to let go of. Thank goodness and thanks to Blueash for offering that information to us.

[drducat]

Quote:


Of course ducat was corrected. He is getting his opinion from far right wing blogs.



and instead of admitting the error, learning from it, maybe even thanking the poster for adding to his knowledge and apologizing for posting false information, we get this reply




Ducat is wrong again. I'm not sure whose face we are supposed to look at, but his (or her) understanding of vaccine liability in the US is wrong. When you get almost any vaccine in this country the manufacturer's liability is covered by a federal program. This is not unique to Covid shots. It is true of the MMR, the DTap etc. All the Covid vaccines, not just Pfizer's are covered by the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program. Vaccines for children and pregnant women are covered under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program which was signed into law by Reagan in 1986.

And there is no such thing as a stand alone "the BioNTech vaccine." The correct name and the name that was used in emergency approval is Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine. (https://www.fda.gov/media/150386/download) Once Pfizer -BioNTech got full authorization for use of this vaccine in people 16 and older they then rebranded with a commercial name, Comirnaty, while the identical vaccine being given under emergency authorization is still Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine for those 12 to 15. Further, the authorization allows the use of either of these vaccines in all circumstances where either is authorized, because they are identical. If all I have in my freezer is Comirnaty and I wish to vaccinate a 12 year old it can be used. If all I have is Pfizer-BioNTech and I wish to immunize a 60 year old I can use it. A Datsun is a Nissan, a Nissan is a Datsun. So simple to understand.

You can read the history of the association (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizer%E2%80%93BioNTech_COVID-19_vaccine) of Pfizer, a US company, and BioNTech, a German company in the development [all in Germany], manufacture, and sales of this vaccine.

I only read the FDA's own explanation on the 2 different letters published....One for Pfizer and a second one for BioNTech.......FDA wrote it not me.

[drducat]

I do see, and I do worry about the break through cases. In my home, daughter and I are once again staying away from the fun of painting and doing crafts at the rec centers and mostly because she so dislikes to wear masks for long periods of time.

I don't doubt at all that there are many break through cases. I just am skeptical that fourteen percent of those hospitalized with Covid have been completely vaccinated. I could be wrong.

We can banter all we want to on here but Blue Ash and Eagle are both M.D.s and they didn't get their certification out of a Cheerio's box.

They sometimes differ politically but they give us good info about medicine.

So grateful for both of them.

I am a retired person educated in Early Childhood Development. I had a lot of experience accompanying our daughter who was born with Williams Syndrome through many, many, many medical procedures and hospitalizations at a wonderfully skilled place; Cincinnati Children's Hospital. Every single person I met there were doing it by the books. They taught me to respect the traditional medical community. I have not changed.

Right along with many other opinions from a variety of MD's....Not researchers.

[coffeebean]

I keep posting this and here is one more time...a quick search finds data supporting this....Vaccinated are causing the variants why? Because this vaccine is a partial immunity vaccine....Non Sterilizing Vaccine...Only reaches B-CELL IMMUNITY...Thats it folks...simple as that. Vaccinated are infected and by shear numbers the virus figures out how to bypass this simple immunity from the jabs which creates a new variant.

Not so fast. This has been fact checked.........

Fact Check-No evidence vaccination efforts are causing new COVID-19 variants | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-variants/fact-check-no-evidence-vaccination-efforts-are-causing-new-covid-19-variants-idUSL2N2NL1M2)

[drducat]

Quoting myself here........

Since I wrote this reply, I was informed differently. There is so much to be learned about this entire scenario we are all dealing with. Knowing there is Federal assistance in place for people who are harmed by vaccines, makes me breathe a sigh of relief. That is one "excuse" anti-vaxxers will have to let go of. Thank goodness and thanks to Blueash for offering that information to us.

All is good except this vax is not covered under the vaccine injury Federal Assistance...They will tell you your on your own for taking an experimental substance.....Sorry hope all eventually can recover that had issues not to forget the Thousands that have died from the jab.

[drducat]

Not so fast. This has been fact checked.........

Fact Check-No evidence vaccination efforts are causing new COVID-19 variants | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-variants/fact-check-no-evidence-vaccination-efforts-are-causing-new-covid-19-variants-idUSL2N2NL1M2)

NO No No....Quit reading media....They have been spreading disinfo on this...:MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

[Bill14564]

All is good except this vax is not covered under the vaccine injury Federal Assistance...They will tell you your on your own for taking an experimental substance.....Sorry hope all eventually can recover that had issues not to forget the Thousands that have died from the jab.

Please refer to posts #78 and #108.

I would be interested in any evidence "the jab" has led to thousands dying. (though the lack of "the jab" is leading to over 1500 dying every day currently)

[Two Bills]

I keep posting this and here is one more time...a quick search finds data supporting this....Vaccinated are causing the variants why? Because this vaccine is a partial immunity vaccine....Non Sterilizing Vaccine...Only reaches B-CELL IMMUNITY...Thats it folks...simple as that. Vaccinated are infected and by shear numbers the virus figures out how to bypass this simple immunity from the jabs which creates a new variant.

If the Delta variant was found in India around 2020, and India's vaccination program only got under way in January 2021, how did vaccine cause that variant?

[Velvet]

If the Delta variant was found in India around 2020, and India's vaccination program only got under way in January 2021, how did vaccine cause that variant?

It is obvious to me, that you simply have a hard time with magical thinking.

[jimjamuser]

I keep posting this and here is one more time...a quick search finds data supporting this....Vaccinated are causing the variants why? Because this vaccine is a partial immunity vaccine....Non Sterilizing Vaccine...Only reaches B-CELL IMMUNITY...Thats it folks...simple as that. Vaccinated are infected and by shear numbers the virus figures out how to bypass this simple immunity from the jabs which creates a new variant.
Lately, I have been hearing the word "jabs" so much that I feel that I am listening to an announcer from the "Rocky" movie.
Nevertheless .....The Kaiser Family Foundation did a 3 months-long study about the cost of Hospitalization incurred by UNvaccinated CV patients - for the last 3 months the cost was $ 5.7 Billion - that is 5.7 Billion American dollars - that is Billion with a B !

[jimjamuser]

It is obvious to me, that you simply have a hard time with magical thinking.
There are 7 mountain ranges in India. These 7 have some of the HIGHEST elevations in the world. Many Western tourists come to these HIGH mountain elevations. The thin air and the BEAUTIFUL scenery there -
in combination with the friendly people and some VERY edible local HIGH-altitude mushrooms lead many tourists to have momentary lapses into visions of clarity and magical thinking.

[jimjamuser]

NO No No....Quit reading media....They have been spreading disinfo on this...:MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:
Oh yes, the last resort when logic and facts fail..............blame the media.........and deflect!

[coffeebean]

All is good except this vax is not covered under the vaccine injury Federal Assistance...They will tell you your on your own for taking an experimental substance.....Sorry hope all eventually can recover that had issues not to forget the Thousands that have died from the jab.

So......which is it? Are we covered if we are harmed or are we not covered if we are harmed from a Covid vaccine? Who to believe?

Thousands of deaths have been reported but not all are a direct result of the vaccine. This is what the CDC has to say about that.......

Selected Adverse Events Reported after COVID-19 Vaccination | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html)

[coffeebean]

NO No No....Quit reading media....They have been spreading disinfo on this...:MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

Which source(s) are you using regarding Covid variants being caused by vaccinated people?

[coffeebean]

NO No No....Quit reading media....They have been spreading disinfo on this...:MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot:

Reuters is a reliable source.

[drducat]

Oh yes, the last resort when logic and facts fail..............blame the media.........and deflect!

Never listen to propaganda....They are the problem. Not blaming them for what they are being paid by what ever foreign power to mock each other about.

[drducat]

If the Delta variant was found in India around 2020, and India's vaccination program only got under way in January 2021, how did vaccine cause that variant?

Found but began where?

[drducat]

Reuters is a reliable source.

Righhhhhht!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Righhhhhht!

Reuters is not a "source" of scientific information. It's a media outlet that reports FROM actual sources.

Not to be confused with "media" like OANN, which is an "alternative facts" outlet that writes mostly emotionally charged rhetoric with snippets of quotes taken out of context, and passes it off as facts.

Reuters can sometimes be wrong, and can sometimes lapse in their fact-checking. Compare with OANN, which doesn't bother with pesky details like fact checking, and is often not merely wrong, but intentionally wrong.

[Two Bills]

Found but began where?

Your the one with all the answers. Tell me.

[drducat]

Your the one with all the answers. Tell me.

To be honest it is really hard to tell...We have Pakistan, UK, Bangladesh where Delta took roots and with the amount of travel??? No one knows and it can't be ascertained.

[Koapaka]

Interesting....Nearly Half Of All Hospitalized Patients With COVID-19 Had Only Mild Or Asymptomatic Cases, Study Shows (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/nearly-half-of-all-hospitalized-patients-with-covid-19-had-only-mild-or-asymptomatic-cases-study-shows/ar-AAOrryl?ocid=msedgntp)


So why were they hospitalized?

[JMintzer]

Interesting....Nearly Half Of All Hospitalized Patients With COVID-19 Had Only Mild Or Asymptomatic Cases, Study Shows (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/nearly-half-of-all-hospitalized-patients-with-covid-19-had-only-mild-or-asymptomatic-cases-study-shows/ar-AAOrryl?ocid=msedgntp)


So why were they hospitalized?

A multitude of other problems... Heart problems, Kidney problems, Cancer, MVAs..

They also happened to test positive for Covid...

[Byte1]

Yes agreed, just take zinc. And try and ONLY care about yourself and near relatives. That is the SMALL-tribal theory of human society.

Works for me. Less worry, longer life.

[Byte1]

Interesting....Nearly Half Of All Hospitalized Patients With COVID-19 Had Only Mild Or Asymptomatic Cases, Study Shows (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/nearly-half-of-all-hospitalized-patients-with-covid-19-had-only-mild-or-asymptomatic-cases-study-shows/ar-AAOrryl?ocid=msedgntp)


So why were they hospitalized?

BINGO!!:clap2:

[Byte1]

Yes to vaccine passports.

Let the unvaccinated enjoy "freedom" from inside their homes while patriotic americans move about freely.

Remember when patiotism meant a sacrifice for the common good? In WWII people gladly accepted years of rationing and blackouts. Soldiers letters home were read and censored. Where is that sense of civic duty now? Instead too many just in it for themselves.

And as for boosters. The military gave me more vaccines and boosters than I can count.
And on Monday I'm going to to the VA for the covid vaccine booster. It isn't just for my benefit. It's my patriotic duty to do what I can to stop the virus and save American lives.

Patriotism?
Good try, but no dice. That dog don't hunt. Love of one's country has nothing to do with what YOU deem is right for other people, such as being vaccinated.

It would be a lot easier for those "vaccinated" persons that fear getting infected, to stay home where they would not have to worry about anyone else infecting them. Since the vaccinated can still become infected and/or infect others, if they are afraid they should stay home where they can be assured of their safety. After all, those that are unvaccinated, have no idea whether or not they are infected and probably do not care.

Patriotism? That is like accusing someone of being a racist if they do not agree with you.
Come on Man!

[Koapaka]

EXACTLY! These are "stats" we are having thrown our way daily when many of these "COVID" patients clogging up hospitals are actually patients for others medical procedures and just happen to be tested positive with NO problems/complaints.

Again, the effort to drive a narrative certainly seems to be in play in the media trying to push people to believe otherwise.

[Koapaka]

The discussion section states "The findings indicate with moderate certainty that ivermectin treatment in COVID-19 provides a significant survival benefit."



Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19 Infectio... : American Journal of Therapeutics (https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Fulltext/2021/08000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.7.aspx)

[jswirs]

Interesting....Nearly Half Of All Hospitalized Patients With COVID-19 Had Only Mild Or Asymptomatic Cases, Study Shows (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/nearly-half-of-all-hospitalized-patients-with-covid-19-had-only-mild-or-asymptomatic-cases-study-shows/ar-AAOrryl?ocid=msedgntp)


So why were they hospitalized?
So, if a patient enters a hospital with, for example, a heart condition, AND he test positive for Covid, should that person die, his / her death certificate indicates he / she died BECAUSE OF Covid, instead of WITH Covid. As usual, it's all about $$.
And now, for all those who disbelieve, I most humbly suggest you post a question on various social media sights, asking all whose loved ones passed with Covid on the death certificate, if they, indeed, passed BECAUSE of Covid, when they were suffering from some other malady unrelated to Covid.

[SkBlogW]

EXACTLY! These are "stats" we are having thrown our way daily when many of these "COVID" patients clogging up hospitals are actually patients for others medical procedures and just happen to be tested positive with NO problems/complaints.

Again, the effort to drive a narrative certainly seems to be in play in the media trying to push people to believe otherwise.

Yep, and gullible eat it up and follow with a drink of smug superiority. :)

[jimjamuser]

Never listen to propaganda....They are the problem. Not blaming them for what they are being paid by what ever foreign power to mock each other about.
A source of propaganda...........calling the kettle black.......that is ironic. And don't you-all be confused by my mixed metaphor.

[jimjamuser]

Reuters is not a "source" of scientific information. It's a media outlet that reports FROM actual sources.

Not to be confused with "media" like OANN, which is an "alternative facts" outlet that writes mostly emotionally charged rhetoric with snippets of quotes taken out of context, and passes it off as facts.

Reuters can sometimes be wrong, and can sometimes lapse in their fact-checking. Compare with OANN, which doesn't bother with pesky details like fact checking, and is often not merely wrong, but intentionally wrong.
I agree with this post.

[jimjamuser]

To be honest it is really hard to tell...We have Pakistan, UK, Bangladesh where Delta took roots and with the amount of travel??? No one knows and it can't be ascertained.
Just like bats or Chinese Scientists caused CV ........or aliens or gypsies or Sonny Liston or Carrot Top or etc. etc.

[jimjamuser]

Interesting....Nearly Half Of All Hospitalized Patients With COVID-19 Had Only Mild Or Asymptomatic Cases, Study Shows (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/nearly-half-of-all-hospitalized-patients-with-covid-19-had-only-mild-or-asymptomatic-cases-study-shows/ar-AAOrryl?ocid=msedgntp)


So why were they hospitalized?
I noticed in the study that the RESULTS for the VACCINATED were better than for the UNVACCINATED. Isn't this the point of fact that many here are TRYING to shoot down (for who knows what nefarious reason) - yet, they FAIL in attempt after attempt at causing chaos by throwing SHADE on the VACCINATION (don't call it jabs like a 6th grader would) PROCESS. But, FACTS and SCIENCE always seem to be on the SIDE for vaccination.

[jimjamuser]

Works for me. Less worry, longer life.
Got to LOVE a person willing to admit character flaws in public! Socrates often said, "know thyself"!

[jimjamuser]

Patriotism?
Good try, but no dice. That dog don't hunt. Love of one's country has nothing to do with what YOU deem is right for other people, such as being vaccinated.

It would be a lot easier for those "vaccinated" persons that fear getting infected, to stay home where they would not have to worry about anyone else infecting them. Since the vaccinated can still become infected and/or infect others, if they are afraid they should stay home where they can be assured of their safety. After all, those that are unvaccinated, have no idea whether or not they are infected and probably do not care.

Patriotism? That is like accusing someone of being a racist if they do not agree with you.
Come on Man!
I think that PATRIOTISM and getting VACCINATED actually 'fit together like a hand and glove' - to quote a common expression. One could go so far as to call the vaccinated people.........socially conscious human beings. And call the unvaccinated......... anti-social, indoctrinated-by-propaganda people, that trend toward the anarchy, anti-government end of the spectrum - some of which are perfectly willing to use force and violence to achieve chaos and government-toppling. Where does being anti-social stop? Facebook and Instagram push young males and females into dark corners of confusion, despair, and often even hatred of themselves. Yes, vaccine strength may be waning after 6 to 8 months, but Facebook and other dark media will continue until STOPPED by Federal Governments around the world. As long as the US remains free, most people will TRUST our Government!

[coffeebean]

Righhhhhht!

Yes, right!

About Reuters Fact Check (https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/about)

[jimjamuser]

The discussion section states "The findings indicate with moderate certainty that ivermectin treatment in COVID-19 provides a significant survival benefit."



Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19 Infectio... : American Journal of Therapeutics (https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Fulltext/2021/08000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.7.aspx)
Ivermectin is a "bridge too far". Next, we will be told that instead of taking the vaccine - we should all try ground rhinoceros horn to prevent CV and give lifetime immunity. Better hide those rhinos that are in the zoos!

[Byte1]

I think that PATRIOTISM and getting VACCINATED actually 'fit together like a hand and glove' - to quote a common expression. One could go so far as to call the vaccinated people.........socially conscious human beings. And call the unvaccinated......... anti-social, indoctrinated-by-propaganda people, that trend toward the anarchy, anti-government end of the spectrum - some of which are perfectly willing to use force and violence to achieve chaos and government-toppling. Where does being anti-social stop? Facebook and Instagram push young males and females into dark corners of confusion, despair, and often even hatred of themselves. Yes, vaccine strength may be waning after 6 to 8 months, but Facebook and other dark media will continue until STOPPED by Federal Governments around the world. As long as the US remains free, most people will TRUST our Government!

Whatever that all means. Let me make one correction for you. "As long as the US remains free.." is the ONLY way the people will trust the Government. When the gov takes away freedom (and it has been whittling away at it) it becomes despised, not trusted.

[Byte1]

Ivermectin is a "bridge too far". Next, we will be told that instead of taking the vaccine - we should all try ground rhinoceros horn to prevent CV and give lifetime immunity. Better hide those rhinos that are in the zoos!

I suppose some folks thought that way about mold that was later labeled Penicillin. But there is nothing wrong with a bit of sarcasm, so have at it.

[Koapaka]

Ivermectin is a "bridge too far". Next, we will be told that instead of taking the vaccine - we should all try ground rhinoceros horn to prevent CV and give lifetime immunity. Better hide those rhinos that are in the zoos!

So you agree to side with Science right up until it disagrees with you in studies and effective use by populations unable to get/afford other treatments??:pray:

[Topspinmo]

Lately, I have been hearing the word "jabs" so much that I feel that I am listening to an announcer from the "Rocky" movie.
Nevertheless .....The Kaiser Family Foundation did a 3 months-long study about the cost of Hospitalization incurred by UNvaccinated CV patients - for the last 3 months the cost was $ 5.7 Billion - that is 5.7 Billion American dollars - that is Billion with a B !

You act like billion is lot of money. Well,it is if you’re accountable for it. If not it’s like spending quarters in dime store.

[dsgreen3]

EXPLOSIVE Truth About Vaccines & COVID w/Inventor Of mRNA Vaccine Technology, Robert Malone - YouTube (https://youtu.be/iwPKnOhJRYg)

The guy credited with developing MRNA vaccines and his thoughts on what's going on very interesting.

[drducat]

Ivermectin is a "bridge too far". Next, we will be told that instead of taking the vaccine - we should all try ground rhinoceros horn to prevent CV and give lifetime immunity. Better hide those rhinos that are in the zoos!

A vaccine should never made it off the shelf......No need when we have multiple therapeutics that work fast. Goes against the rules a tad.....


33 districts in Uttar Pradesh are now Covid-free: State govt - Hindustan Times (https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/lucknow-news/33-districts-in-uttar-pradesh-are-now-covid-free-state-govt-101631267966925.html)


Uttar Pradesh: 23 districts are now Covid-19 free, recovery rate over 98% - Coronavirus Outbreak News (https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/uttar-pradesh-districts-covid-free-cases-deaths-1847365-2021-08-31)


Uttar Pradesh government says early use of Ivermectin helped to keep positivity, deaths low | Cities News,The Indian Express (https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/lucknow/uttar-pradesh-government-says-ivermectin-helped-to-keep-deaths-low-7311786/)


Do we need more proof?

[Velvet]

A vaccine should never made it off the shelf......No need when we have multiple therapeutics that work fast. Goes against the rules a tad.....


33 districts in Uttar Pradesh are now Covid-free: State govt - Hindustan Times (https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/lucknow-news/33-districts-in-uttar-pradesh-are-now-covid-free-state-govt-101631267966925.html)


Uttar Pradesh: 23 districts are now Covid-19 free, recovery rate over 98% - Coronavirus Outbreak News (https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/uttar-pradesh-districts-covid-free-cases-deaths-1847365-2021-08-31)


Uttar Pradesh government says early use of Ivermectin helped to keep positivity, deaths low | Cities News,The Indian Express (https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/lucknow/uttar-pradesh-government-says-ivermectin-helped-to-keep-deaths-low-7311786/)


Do we need more proof?

Have you ever been to India? To have some idea how trust worthy some of their data is. What do you think of N Korea they have no, never had one, ever, cases of Covid.

[Aces4]

Whatever that all means. Let me make one correction for you. "As long as the US remains free.." is the ONLY way the people will trust the Government. When the gov takes away freedom (and it has been whittling away at it) it becomes despised, not trusted.

I think trust is fading quickly. There is currently a proposal under consideration that would force banks and credit unions to provide your personal banking information throughout the year to the IRS. It’s a slippery slope. :ohdear:

[drducat]

Have you ever been to India? To have some idea how trust worthy some of their data is. What do you think of N Korea they have no, never had one, ever, cases of Covid.

I do know how trust worthy they are and I for one will tell you if your taking anyone of the many medications made in India....you have nothing to worry about.

[jimjamuser]

Whatever that all means. Let me make one correction for you. "As long as the US remains free.." is the ONLY way the people will trust the Government. When the gov takes away freedom (and it has been whittling away at it) it becomes despised, not trusted.
What I said about Facebook and teen girls can be easily Googled. I stand by MY remarks. Everybody knows that we have 2 POLARIZED groups in the US,,,,vaxxed and UNvaxxed. I stand by those facts!!!!!!!

[Velvet]

I do know how trust worthy they are and I for one will tell you if your taking anyone of the many medications made in India....you have nothing to worry about.

It depends…who and how. India is a continent. Many things done there we would not accept here. And other things are better. I like to be selective and data check myself.

[jimjamuser]

Whatever that all means. Let me make one correction for you. "As long as the US remains free.." is the ONLY way the people will trust the Government. When the gov takes away freedom (and it has been whittling away at it) it becomes despised, not trusted.
Waning effectiveness of CV vaccine is easily corrected with additional shots. Dr. Hotez of Baylor Univ, said that the Pfizer vaccine was originally set up as a 3 dose regimen. That's NOT the problem! The problem is that the VIRUS does NOT standstill, it MUTATES. The virus is the ENEMY. It must be STOPPED. In a war or army situation, the anti-vaxxers are like infantry troops that refuse to pick up their weapons! Where does being anti-vaxx and anti-social stop? WE agree on the conclusion about free government and free people. The question to ask in light of the recent POLARIZATION (last 10 to 15 years) is which government will emerge in the future of the US? Waning CV effectiveness is going to be a future decision point for some people that expected the 2 shot mRNA regime to transfer total lifetime immunity to them - they will be disappointed!

[jimjamuser]

So you agree to side with Science right up until it disagrees with you in studies and effective use by populations unable to get/afford other treatments??:pray:
Our CDC has enough Doctors and medical experts to impress and inform ME. If you or someone else has the time and medical knowledge to dispute the Expert in the US, be my guest. Use and abuse yourselves with ivermectin. But, be warned that many, many Americans have ALREADY DIED from it. I will gladly sell anyone some rhino horn powder if I get enough orders.

[jimjamuser]

Have you ever been to India? To have some idea how trust worthy some of their data is. What do you think of N Korea they have no, never had one, ever, cases of Covid.
I agree with the content of this post.

[jswirs]

Our CDC has enough Doctors and medical experts to impress and inform ME. If you or someone else has the time and medical knowledge to dispute the Expert in the US, be my guest. Use and abuse yourselves with ivermectin. But, be warned that many, many Americans have ALREADY DIED from it. I will gladly sell anyone some rhino horn powder if I get enough orders.
Same as "Many Americans have died from the "Vaccine"."
Believe what you wish. I tend NOT to believe anything coming from these agencies. Most keep their own agenda as a first priority. In any case, Be Well!

[drducat]

Our CDC has enough Doctors and medical experts to impress and inform ME. If you or someone else has the time and medical knowledge to dispute the Expert in the US, be my guest. Use and abuse yourselves with ivermectin. But, be warned that many, many Americans have ALREADY DIED from it. I will gladly sell anyone some rhino horn powder if I get enough orders.

Boy are you in for huge surprise.......................................... .................................................

[JMintzer]

Waning effectiveness of CV vaccine is easily corrected with additional shots. Dr. Hotez of Baylor Univ, said that the Pfizer vaccine was originally set up as a 3 dose regimen. That's NOT the problem! The problem is that the VIRUS does NOT standstill, it MUTATES. The virus is the ENEMY. It must be STOPPED. In a war or army situation, the anti-vaxxers are like infantry troops that refuse to pick up their weapons! Where does being anti-vaxx and anti-social stop? WE agree on the conclusion about free government and free people. The question to ask in light of the recent POLARIZATION (last 10 to 15 years) is which government will emerge in the future of the US? Waning CV effectiveness is going to be a future decision point for some people that expected the 2 shot mRNA regime to transfer total lifetime immunity to them - they will be disappointed!

If mutations are the problem, why is the booster the very same vaccine and dosage as the first two shots?

[coffeebean]

EXPLOSIVE Truth About Vaccines & COVID w/Inventor Of mRNA Vaccine Technology, Robert Malone - YouTube (https://youtu.be/iwPKnOhJRYg)

The guy credited with developing MRNA vaccines and his thoughts on what's going on very interesting.

It has already been established on this forum in another thread that Robert Malone is not credible. Here is one article about him........

Robert Malone: Vaccine Scientist, Vaccine Skeptic - The Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/)

[Velvet]

It has already been established on this forum in another thread that Robert Malone is not credible. Here is one article about him........

Robert Malone: Vaccine Scientist, Vaccine Skeptic - The Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/)

“Not credible” very gently put….

[drducat]

It has already been established on this forum in another thread that Robert Malone is not credible. Here is one article about him........

Robert Malone: Vaccine Scientist, Vaccine Skeptic - The Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/)

Malone knows more about the technology than he is disclosing and your also in for a big surprise.......................................... ..................:evil6:

[coffeebean]

Malone knows more about the technology than he is disclosing and your also in for a big surprise.......................................... ..................:evil6:

We shall see.

[Velvet]

Malone knows more about the technology than he is disclosing and your also in for a big surprise.......................................... ..................:evil6:

Now the Atlantic is a magazine I read sometimes. I’m willing to look at this article.

Ok, I read the article. To me it sounds like Malone was not given enough credit for his contribution to the discovery of mRNA in his opinion, and now he wants the limelight in any way he can. He sounds vindictive and disappointed. It must be hard to go against a vaccine that you want to take credit for. He sounds like an unhappy man.

[drducat]

We shall see.

Over use of vaccines is no different than over use of antibiotics where the virus will over come and grow to super bug status rendering the vaccines or antibiotic useless by means of evading by mutations....known fact.

[coffeebean]

Over use of vaccines is no different than over use of antibiotics where the virus will over come and grow to super bug status rendering the vaccines or antibiotic useless by means of evading by mutations....known fact.

I agree about overuse of antibiotics but did not know same principle applies to vaccines. Why is it that our experts in epidemiology are asking for high percentage of people to be vaccinated? That is the opposite of “overuse”.

[Byte1]

"Waning " or not, I'm not sure that I will be getting a booster for this thing, UNLESS things change drastically for the worse. And I do not mean infections. I am talking about the death rate. I do not care about the infection rate. Everyone could be infected for all we know. What is the percentage of folks actually getting tested and how accurate are the tests? Infection rate means nothing to me. Death rate by Covid is the main factor. And what is the ratio of persons vaccinated that are having serious side effects, including death? Not that I fear this for myself, but since I am unlikely to die from Covid due to my healthy condition, why take a chance with the vaccine if there is any chance of it being a danger? I am not suggesting that anyone else decline the vaccination. I will neither endorse or discourage the use of this vaccination. I do feel that the vaccine has saved a lot of lives. How many, I do not know. Since everyone seems to think that masks are the great answer, perhaps it was not the vaccine but the mask that has saved so many lives.....:)

[JMintzer]

"Waning " or not, I'm not sure that I will be getting a booster for this thing, UNLESS things change drastically for the worse. And I do not mean infections. I am talking about the death rate. I do not care about the infection rate. Everyone could be infected for all we know. What is the percentage of folks actually getting tested and how accurate are the tests? Infection rate means nothing to me. Death rate by Covid is the main factor. And what is the ratio of persons vaccinated that are having serious side effects, including death? Not that I fear this for myself, but since I am unlikely to die from Covid due to my healthy condition, why take a chance with the vaccine if there is any chance of it being a danger? I am not suggesting that anyone else decline the vaccination. I will neither endorse or discourage the use of this vaccination. I do feel that the vaccine has saved a lot of lives. How many, I do not know. Since everyone seems to think that masks are the great answer, perhaps it was not the vaccine but the mask that has saved so many lives.....:)

Which is why, I've been saying for months, that they should be testing for ANTIBODIES, and not ONLY for "active" covid...

[Byte1]

Which is why, I've been saying for months, that they should be testing for ANTIBODIES, and not ONLY for "active" covid...

Thank you. Finally some common sense ideas.

[jimjamuser]

If mutations are the problem, why is the booster the very same vaccine and dosage as the first two shots?
I could EASILY answer that question. But, more IMPORTANTLY, would real intelligent posters like the several Doctors that respond regularly to this forum - ask such a simplistic question of me?
I sincerely doubt it!

[jimjamuser]

Now the Atlantic is a magazine I read sometimes. I’m willing to look at this article.

Ok, I read the article. To me it sounds like Malone was not given enough credit for his contribution to the discovery of mRNA in his opinion, and now he wants the limelight in any way he can. He sounds vindictive and disappointed. It must be hard to go against a vaccine that you want to take credit for. He sounds like an unhappy man.
Good conclusion. I would also add the factor of MONEY. The is likely lots of dark money floating around the US that favors ANYONE that can add CONFUSION to this issue.

[jimjamuser]

Over use of vaccines is no different than over use of antibiotics where the virus will over come and grow to super bug status rendering the vaccines or antibiotic useless by means of evading by mutations....known fact.
If about 10% of the people"know" or believe a certain fact, can that be TRUELY called a "known fact"??????

[Byte1]

If about 10% of the people"know" or believe a certain fact, can that be TRUELY called a "known fact"??????

I believe that certain folks ^ should address their comments to the legalize pot forum.:MOJE_whot:

[JMintzer]

I could EASILY answer that question. But, more IMPORTANTLY, would real intelligent posters like the several Doctors that respond regularly to this forum - ask such a simplistic question of me?
I sincerely doubt it!

If it's so easy to answer, answer it! ""

[jimjamuser]

I agree about overuse of antibiotics but did not know same principle applies to vaccines. Why is it that our experts in epidemiology are asking for high percentage of people to be vaccinated? That is the opposite of “overuse”.
Exactly and further proof is that 99% of the CV deaths in hospitals are THE UNVACCINATED!

[jimjamuser]

I believe that certain folks ^ should address their comments to the legalize pot forum.:MOJE_whot:
And that book title should be, "The Art and Science of Deflection". A sure-fire best seller!

[drducat]

Just the 65 and older crowd......and only if? and then they argue "arguing there is not enough evidence to show it is safe and necessary."

FDA Advisory Panel Recommends Against Pfizer Covid Boosters—Except For People Over 65 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/09/17/fda-advisory-panel-recommends-against-pfizer-covid-boosters-except-for-people-over-65/?sh=7c0f016f6e1d)

[Koapaka]

Seems as there is a shift in thinking.....Big gap between Pfizer, Moderna vaccines seen for preventing COVID hospitalizations (https://www.yahoo.com/news/big-gap-between-pfizer-moderna-034719881.html)

[Velvet]

Just the 65 and older crowd......and only if? and then they argue "arguing there is not enough evidence to show it is safe and necessary."

FDA Advisory Panel Recommends Against Pfizer Covid Boosters—Except For People Over 65 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/09/17/fda-advisory-panel-recommends-against-pfizer-covid-boosters-except-for-people-over-65/?sh=7c0f016f6e1d)

Not only is the vaccine safe and necessary but they never seem to add that one of it’s side effects is that it seems to also get rid of colds or bronchitis, which I had a medium case of when I got vaccinated. Then had fever for a day then felt completely well after 48 hours. Cold or bronchitis gone. I know this is anecdotal but how is it they don’t study or report on the POSITIVE side effects of the vaccine?

[Byte1]

Not only is the vaccine safe and necessary but they never seem to add that one of it’s side effects is that it seems to also get rid of colds or bronchitis, which I had a medium case of when I got vaccinated. Then had fever for a day then felt completely well after 48 hours. Cold or bronchitis gone. I know this is anecdotal but how is it they don’t study or report on the POSITIVE side effects of the vaccine?

I think that the vaccine CAUSED me and my spouse to catch colds that we NEVER get otherwise. It's been over ten years since I have had a cold but shortly after receiving my vaccination, I had head congestion and a cough I couldn't seem to get rid of. No fever. I never blamed it on the vaccination until you brought it up. Positive? I have no idea whether or not I was ever exposed to Covid so I do not know if the vaccinate worked for me. I have never had the flu so who knows whether or not I would have ever contracted the virus. I have no regrets regarding my search and obtaining of the vaccination for my spouse (and myself) but I have to be honest and wonder out loud whether or not it has even had a chance to work for me. The negative side effects was none for my spouse that has all the medical issue, but a couple miserable days for me after the second shot. Worth it IF the virus worked for me.

[Velvet]

If the vaccine caused your cold the moon is made out of blue cheese! Fever is a sign of the immunity system working, it seemed to have worked on other infection as well. I believe you had a cold I just don’t believe the vaccine caused it and there are 7 million Israelis who agree with me. ;)

[JMintzer]

I think that the vaccine CAUSED me and my spouse to catch colds that we NEVER get otherwise. It's been over ten years since I have had a cold but shortly after receiving my vaccination, I had head congestion and a cough I couldn't seem to get rid of. No fever. I never blamed it on the vaccination until you brought it up. Positive? I have no idea whether or not I was ever exposed to Covid so I do not know if the vaccinate worked for me. I have never had the flu so who knows whether or not I would have ever contracted the virus. I have no regrets regarding my search and obtaining of the vaccination for my spouse (and myself) but I have to be honest and wonder out loud whether or not it has even had a chance to work for me. The negative side effects was none for my spouse that has all the medical issue, but a couple miserable days for me after the second shot. Worth it IF the virus worked for me.

Get a Covid antibody test. Ask them to test for the "natural" immunity antibodies...

You may be surprised at the results...

[Byte1]

If the vaccine caused your cold the moon is made out of blue cheese! Fever is a sign of the immunity system working, it seemed to have worked on other infection as well. I believe you had a cold I just don’t believe the vaccine caused it and there are 8 million Israelis who agree with me. ;)

And yet, you feel that the vaccine prevented you from catching a cold. OK.
Maybe the reason you haven't heard anyone speaking of the positive side effects is that there is no evidence of such, other than a reduction in covid infections that are now back to the high percentage.
I have only met a couple "Israelis" in the past so I have no idea if any of them agree with me...

[JMintzer]

If the vaccine caused your cold the moon is made out of blue cheese! Fever is a sign of the immunity system working, it seemed to have worked on other infection as well. I believe you had a cold I just don’t believe the vaccine caused it and there are 7 million Israelis who agree with me. ;)

I always thought it was GREEN cheese...:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Byte1]

I always thought it was GREEN cheese...:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

It isn't?

[drducat]

Not only is the vaccine safe and necessary but they never seem to add that one of it’s side effects is that it seems to also get rid of colds or bronchitis, which I had a medium case of when I got vaccinated. Then had fever for a day then felt completely well after 48 hours. Cold or bronchitis gone. I know this is anecdotal but how is it they don’t study or report on the POSITIVE side effects of the vaccine?

Safe....not so fast....No long term safety study or short term (5 years) study has been done. FDA did not follow any of their own policies fro approval...so in many many ways..the vaccine is still an experimental compound......boosters are risky at this stage.

[Velvet]

Safe....not so fast....No long term safety study or short term (5 years) study has been done. FDA did not follow any of their own policies fro approval...so in many many ways..the vaccine is still an experimental compound......boosters are risky at this stage.

Also no 10 year, 20 year, 50 year studies have been done yet. There really is no such thing as ABSOLUTE safety in life - only probabilities. Existentially, all things are experimental. You have NO reason to assume boosters are risky COMPARED to getting Covid. I think you just want to stir the pot, myself.

[jimjamuser]

Safe....not so fast....No long term safety study or short term (5 years) study has been done. FDA did not follow any of their own policies fro approval...so in many many ways..the vaccine is still an experimental compound......boosters are risky at this stage.
I disagree with the content of this post.

[jimjamuser]

Also no 10 year, 20 year, 50 year studies have been done yet. There really is no such thing as ABSOLUTE safety in life - only probabilities. Existentially, all things are experimental. You have NO reason to assume boosters are risky COMPARED to getting Covid. I think you just want to stir the pot, myself.
I agree with the contents of this post.

[Byte1]

Also no 10 year, 20 year, 50 year studies have been done yet. There really is no such thing as ABSOLUTE safety in life - only probabilities. Existentially, all things are experimental. You have NO reason to assume boosters are risky COMPARED to getting Covid. I think you just want to stir the pot, myself.

The White House was prepared to push booster on everyone, but the FDA put a stop to that idea. They said there was NO benefit as far as they could tell of anyone under the age of 65 getting the booster.

[JMintzer]

It isn't?

I'd say ask Neil Armstrong, but he's dead... Coincidence?

[JMintzer]

The White House was prepared to push booster on everyone, but the FDA put a stop to that idea. They said there was NO benefit as far as they could tell of anyone under the age of 65 getting the booster.

I agree with the content of this post...

[jimjamuser]

Safe....not so fast....No long term safety study or short term (5 years) study has been done. FDA did not follow any of their own policies fro approval...so in many many ways..the vaccine is still an experimental compound......boosters are risky at this stage.
Why do the anti-vaccers feel SO compelled to SELL their ANTI (as in ANTIQUATED) philosophy like it is a RELIGIOUS CALLING? Do they make money by PREACHING their nonsense? I could understand an OCCASIONAL suggestion for others to NOT take a vaccine or a booster - BUT, BUT this CONSTANT DRUMBEAT of chaos-causing misinformation has become LUDICRIOUS and ANNOYING! And the constant ATTEMPTS at defending the indefensible seems childishly immature (like a Butthead and Beavis clown show). Attempts like false logic and bogus links!
The jury is NOT out on CV vaccines any longer - they work! - end of story!
Over 60% of Americans have taken the vaccine and they prove that it works - end of story!
99% of the people that have DIED of CV were the UNvaccinated - end of story!
The UNvaccinated in hospitals BEG Doctors for the vaccine - too late - end of story!
The UNvaccinated are responsible to a large extent for the emergence of the DELTA variant - end of story!

I wonder if these preachers of the gospel of ANTI-vaccines are people with DEATH WISHES for themselves and humanity. I have NEVER thought of a LOGICAL motivation for their actions. I guess I don't understand STRANGE cultish zombie-thinking. .......last end of story!

[Byte1]

Why do the anti-vaccers feel SO compelled to SELL their ANTI (as in ANTIQUATED) philosophy like it is a RELIGIOUS CALLING? Do they make money by PREACHING their nonsense? I could understand an OCCASIONAL suggestion for others to NOT take a vaccine or a booster - BUT, BUT this CONSTANT DRUMBEAT of chaos-causing misinformation has become LUDICRIOUS and ANNOYING! And the constant ATTEMPTS at defending the indefensible seems childishly immature (like a Butthead and Beavis clown show). Attempts like false logic and bogus links!
The jury is NOT out on CV vaccines any longer - they work! - end of story!
Over 60% of Americans have taken the vaccine and they prove that it works - end of story!
99% of the people that have DIED of CV were the UNvaccinated - end of story!
The UNvaccinated in hospitals BEG Doctors for the vaccine - too late - end of story!
The UNvaccinated are responsible to a large extent for the emergence of the DELTA variant - end of story!

I wonder if these preachers of the gospel of ANTI-vaccines are people with DEATH WISHES for themselves and humanity. I have NEVER thought of a LOGICAL motivation for their actions. I guess I don't understand STRANGE cultish zombie-thinking. .......last end of story!

Maybe they are tired of being ostracized by folks like you that accuse them of being "selfish and UN-patriotic." Just a theory.
Most of them are NOT "anti-vaccines" but just anti-vaccine mandate and anti-mask mandate. Some of us have been vaccinated, yet feel that masks are a feeble and inadequate placebo. Some of us respect other folks wishes to abstain from vaccination until they know more about the "new" vaccine. Some of us have lived through other epidemics and have learned not to panic and run amok yelling "the sky is falling" and then demand that everyone else believe their prediction. Some of us understand that no amount of vaccines and medications will prevent the definite and inevitable death that comes to all of us.
But, that is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions, right?

[coffeebean]

~~~

[JMintzer]

Why do the anti-vaccers feel SO compelled to SELL their ANTI (as in ANTIQUATED) philosophy like it is a RELIGIOUS CALLING? Do they make money by PREACHING their nonsense? I could understand an OCCASIONAL suggestion for others to NOT take a vaccine or a booster - BUT, BUT this CONSTANT DRUMBEAT of chaos-causing misinformation has become LUDICRIOUS and ANNOYING! And the constant ATTEMPTS at defending the indefensible seems childishly immature (like a Butthead and Beavis clown show). Attempts like false logic and bogus links!
The jury is NOT out on CV vaccines any longer - they work! - end of story!
Over 60% of Americans have taken the vaccine and they prove that it works - end of story!
99% of the people that have DIED of CV were the UNvaccinated - end of story!
The UNvaccinated in hospitals BEG Doctors for the vaccine - too late - end of story!
The UNvaccinated are responsible to a large extent for the emergence of the DELTA variant - end of story!

I wonder if these preachers of the gospel of ANTI-vaccines are people with DEATH WISHES for themselves and humanity. I have NEVER thought of a LOGICAL motivation for their actions. I guess I don't understand STRANGE cultish zombie-thinking. .......last end of story!

"Constant Drumbeat."... :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[JMintzer]

Maybe they are tired of being ostracized by folks like you that accuse them of being "selfish and UN-patriotic." Just a theory.
Most of them are NOT "anti-vaccines" but just anti-vaccine mandate and anti-mask mandate. Some of us have been vaccinated, yet feel that masks are a feeble and inadequate placebo. Some of us respect other folks wishes to abstain from vaccination until they know more about the "new" vaccine. Some of us have lived through other epidemics and have learned not to panic and run amok yelling "the sky is falling" and then demand that everyone else believe their prediction. Some of us understand that no amount of vaccines and medications will prevent the definite and inevitable death that comes to all of us.
But, that is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions, right?

I agree with the content of this post...

[JMintzer]

Why do the anti-vaccers feel SO compelled to SELL their ANTI (as in ANTIQUATED) philosophy like it is a RELIGIOUS CALLING? Do they make money by PREACHING their nonsense? I could understand an OCCASIONAL suggestion for others to NOT take a vaccine or a booster - BUT, BUT this CONSTANT DRUMBEAT of chaos-causing misinformation has become LUDICRIOUS and ANNOYING! And the constant ATTEMPTS at defending the indefensible seems childishly immature (like a Butthead and Beavis clown show). Attempts like false logic and bogus links!
The jury is NOT out on CV vaccines any longer - they work! - end of story!
Over 60% of Americans have taken the vaccine and they prove that it works - end of story!
99% of the people that have DIED of CV were the UNvaccinated - end of story!
The UNvaccinated in hospitals BEG Doctors for the vaccine - too late - end of story!
The UNvaccinated are responsible to a large extent for the emergence of the DELTA variant - end of story!

I wonder if these preachers of the gospel of ANTI-vaccines are people with DEATH WISHES for themselves and humanity. I have NEVER thought of a LOGICAL motivation for their actions. I guess I don't understand STRANGE cultish zombie-thinking. .......last end of story!

I disagree with the content of this post...

[drducat]

Why do the anti-vaccers feel SO compelled to SELL their ANTI (as in ANTIQUATED) philosophy like it is a RELIGIOUS CALLING? Do they make money by PREACHING their nonsense? I could understand an OCCASIONAL suggestion for others to NOT take a vaccine or a booster - BUT, BUT this CONSTANT DRUMBEAT of chaos-causing misinformation has become LUDICRIOUS and ANNOYING! And the constant ATTEMPTS at defending the indefensible seems childishly immature (like a Butthead and Beavis clown show). Attempts like false logic and bogus links!
The jury is NOT out on CV vaccines any longer - they work! - end of story!
Over 60% of Americans have taken the vaccine and they prove that it works - end of story!
99% of the people that have DIED of CV were the UNvaccinated - end of story!
The UNvaccinated in hospitals BEG Doctors for the vaccine - too late - end of story!
The UNvaccinated are responsible to a large extent for the emergence of the DELTA variant - end of story!

I wonder if these preachers of the gospel of ANTI-vaccines are people with DEATH WISHES for themselves and humanity. I have NEVER thought of a LOGICAL motivation for their actions. I guess I don't understand STRANGE cultish zombie-thinking. .......last end of story!

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn: I am not anti-vax :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Just because many people exhibit risky behavior by taking a shot of unknown consequences and believe they are at the top of the food chain because of it......those that disagree does not make them ILLLOGICAL, rather the Logical. Too many years left to take that kind of leap of faith in our Government or ever changing health care system. :shrug::shrug::shrug:

[jimjamuser]

The White House was prepared to push booster on everyone, but the FDA put a stop to that idea. They said there was NO benefit as far as they could tell of anyone under the age of 65 getting the booster.
Things are NEVER quite as black and white as they MAY appear. US Medical Doctors and experts say that the jury is STILL out (like lots of CV issues) on whether or WHEN to make available vaccines to the under 65 groups. Stay tuned about that! They are working on approval for the under age 6 group as we write. The CDC, FDA, the US Government in total, and University researchers. The total Government has a LOT on its PLATE currently. Also, naysayers, like, "how terrible DR. Fauci is" - don't help either!
The ANTI-vaxxers that have mostly caused the DELTA variant to become systemic US-wide are to be blamed! NOT changing advice from the FDA and the CDC, which has ONLY changed to ADJUST to changing CV conditions. That's what INTELLIGENT human beings do - they adjust to changing conditions. That is a 1st PRINCIPLE of WAR taught at our MILITARY ACADEMIES.
DR. Fauci is NOT to be blamed for ALL things CV-related. He is a hero that deserves our PRAISE for his 40 years of service to our country. How many ANTI-vaxxers have given 40 years to US society's improvement in ANY capacity? I think that you will find that they cared ONLY about themselves!

Getting boosters for waning CV protection is an important subject, but it pales in comparison with the REALIZATION by everyone that all CV DEATH and SUFFERING in about JUNE after about 250,000 had died - all could have been avoided if ONLY the ANTI-vaxxers had rolled up their sleeves and been PRO-AMERICAN and PRO-HUMAN about taking the FREE and widely available VACCINE. Now, I fear, it is too late and about 670,000 human Americans are DEAD - MANY of which are children!!!!!!

And for the naysayers who may, and will say that I exaggerate - read about pediatrician DR. Hotez of Baylor U. who has researched the long-term effects on children's brains caused by even asymptomatic bouts with CV! The future may(?) NOT be TOO BRIGHT for these children (of potentially large numbers) - as their IQs and even LIFE SPANS are likely to DROP.
And remember.......a similar thing happened in Flint, MI from LEAD in the children's water, which will take 2 or 3 GENERATIONS for the effects to vanish.

[Byte1]

Things are NEVER quite as black and white as they MAY appear. US Medical Doctors and experts say that the jury is STILL out (like lots of CV issues) on whether or WHEN to make available vaccines to the under 65 groups. Stay tuned about that! They are working on approval for the under age 6 group as we write. The CDC, FDA, the US Government in total, and University researchers. The total Government has a LOT on its PLATE currently. Also, naysayers, like, "how terrible DR. Fauci is" - don't help either!
The ANTI-vaxxers that have mostly caused the DELTA variant to become systemic US-wide are to be blamed! NOT changing advice from the FDA and the CDC, which has ONLY changed to ADJUST to changing CV conditions. That's what INTELLIGENT human beings do - they adjust to changing conditions. That is a 1st PRINCIPLE of WAR taught at our MILITARY ACADEMIES.
DR. Fauci is NOT to be blamed for ALL things CV-related. He is a hero that deserves our PRAISE for his 40 years of service to our country. How many ANTI-vaxxers have given 40 years to US society's improvement in ANY capacity? I think that you will find that they cared ONLY about themselves!

Getting boosters for waning CV protection is an important subject, but it pales in comparison with the REALIZATION by everyone that all CV DEATH and SUFFERING in about JUNE after about 250,000 had died - all could have been avoided if ONLY the ANTI-vaxxers had rolled up their sleeves and been PRO-AMERICAN and PRO-HUMAN about taking the FREE and widely available VACCINE. Now, I fear, it is too late and about 670,000 human Americans are DEAD - MANY of which are children!!!!!!

And for the naysayers who may, and will say that I exaggerate - read about pediatrician DR. Hotez of Baylor U. who has researched the long-term effects on children's brains caused by even asymptomatic bouts with CV! The future may(?) NOT be TOO BRIGHT for these children (of potentially large numbers) - as their IQs and even LIFE SPANS are likely to DROP.
And remember.......a similar thing happened in Flint, MI from LEAD in the children's water, which will take 2 or 3 GENERATIONS for the effects to vanish.

Oh well, you know the old saying "s*** happens, and then you die."
I have not argued against vaccinations. I will only argue and continue to do so against mandates. If that bothers folks, they are free to believe as they wish. This really is supposed to be a free country regarding your freedom of having an opinion. Believe it falls under the First Amendment, unless I am mistaken. But, I am sure that there are a few on HERE that will argue that statement.

[jimjamuser]

Maybe they are tired of being ostracized by folks like you that accuse them of being "selfish and UN-patriotic." Just a theory.
Most of them are NOT "anti-vaccines" but just anti-vaccine mandate and anti-mask mandate. Some of us have been vaccinated, yet feel that masks are a feeble and inadequate placebo. Some of us respect other folks wishes to abstain from vaccination until they know more about the "new" vaccine. Some of us have lived through other epidemics and have learned not to panic and run amok yelling "the sky is falling" and then demand that everyone else believe their prediction. Some of us understand that no amount of vaccines and medications will prevent the definite and inevitable death that comes to all of us.
But, that is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions, right?
And what about our grandchildren of whom many will get their IQs lowered and likely will live shorter lives.
See Dr. Hotez of Baylor Univ. ...... P L E A S E

[drducat]

Things are NEVER quite as black and white as they MAY appear. US Medical Doctors and experts say that the jury is STILL out (like lots of CV issues) on whether or WHEN to make available vaccines to the under 65 groups. Stay tuned about that! They are working on approval for the under age 6 group as we write. The CDC, FDA, the US Government in total, and University researchers. The total Government has a LOT on its PLATE currently. Also, naysayers, like, "how terrible DR. Fauci is" - don't help either!
The ANTI-vaxxers that have mostly caused the DELTA variant to become systemic US-wide are to be blamed! NOT changing advice from the FDA and the CDC, which has ONLY changed to ADJUST to changing CV conditions. That's what INTELLIGENT human beings do - they adjust to changing conditions. That is a 1st PRINCIPLE of WAR taught at our MILITARY ACADEMIES.
DR. Fauci is NOT to be blamed for ALL things CV-related. He is a hero that deserves our PRAISE for his 40 years of service to our country. How many ANTI-vaxxers have given 40 years to US society's improvement in ANY capacity? I think that you will find that they cared ONLY about themselves!

Getting boosters for waning CV protection is an important subject, but it pales in comparison with the REALIZATION by everyone that all CV DEATH and SUFFERING in about JUNE after about 250,000 had died - all could have been avoided if ONLY the ANTI-vaxxers had rolled up their sleeves and been PRO-AMERICAN and PRO-HUMAN about taking the FREE and widely available VACCINE. Now, I fear, it is too late and about 670,000 human Americans are DEAD - MANY of which are children!!!!!!

And for the naysayers who may, and will say that I exaggerate - read about pediatrician DR. Hotez of Baylor U. who has researched the long-term effects on children's brains caused by even asymptomatic bouts with CV! The future may(?) NOT be TOO BRIGHT for these children (of potentially large numbers) - as their IQs and even LIFE SPANS are likely to DROP.
And remember.......a similar thing happened in Flint, MI from LEAD in the children's water, which will take 2 or 3 GENERATIONS for the effects to vanish.

Know this....The FDA and NIH are in a HUGE disagreement.....boiling point will be reached soon.....surprise is yet coming

[JMintzer]

Oh well, you know the old saying "s*** happens, and then you die."
I have not argued against vaccinations. I will only argue and continue to do so against mandates. If that bothers folks, they are free to believe as they wish. This really is supposed to be a free country regarding your freedom of having an opinion. Believe it falls under the First Amendment, unless I am mistaken. But, I am sure that there are a few on HERE that will argue that statement.

I agree with this post...

[JMintzer]

Things are NEVER quite as black and white as they MAY appear. US Medical Doctors and experts say that the jury is STILL out (like lots of CV issues) on whether or WHEN to make available vaccines to the under 65 groups. Stay tuned about that! They are working on approval for the under age 6 group as we write. The CDC, FDA, the US Government in total, and University researchers. The total Government has a LOT on its PLATE currently. Also, naysayers, like, "how terrible DR. Fauci is" - don't help either!
The ANTI-vaxxers that have mostly caused the DELTA variant to become systemic US-wide are to be blamed! NOT changing advice from the FDA and the CDC, which has ONLY changed to ADJUST to changing CV conditions. That's what INTELLIGENT human beings do - they adjust to changing conditions. That is a 1st PRINCIPLE of WAR taught at our MILITARY ACADEMIES.
DR. Fauci is NOT to be blamed for ALL things CV-related. He is a hero that deserves our PRAISE for his 40 years of service to our country. How many ANTI-vaxxers have given 40 years to US society's improvement in ANY capacity? I think that you will find that they cared ONLY about themselves!

Getting boosters for waning CV protection is an important subject, but it pales in comparison with the REALIZATION by everyone that all CV DEATH and SUFFERING in about JUNE after about 250,000 had died - all could have been avoided if ONLY the ANTI-vaxxers had rolled up their sleeves and been PRO-AMERICAN and PRO-HUMAN about taking the FREE and widely available VACCINE. Now, I fear, it is too late and about 670,000 human Americans are DEAD - MANY of which are children!!!!!!

And for the naysayers who may, and will say that I exaggerate - read about pediatrician DR. Hotez of Baylor U. who has researched the long-term effects on children's brains caused by even asymptomatic bouts with CV! The future may(?) NOT be TOO BRIGHT for these children (of potentially large numbers) - as their IQs and even LIFE SPANS are likely to DROP.
And remember.......a similar thing happened in Flint, MI from LEAD in the children's water, which will take 2 or 3 GENERATIONS for the effects to vanish.

I disagree with almost EVERYTHING in this post...

[Byte1]

I disagree with almost EVERYTHING in this post...

I agree with your disagreement of almost everything in that post. :)

[Koapaka]

I disagree with almost EVERYTHING in this post...

Are we really suppose to care??? If you agree, just leave a rep if you like. Most of us will probably be able to crawl through the day not knowing you do and or don't agree with something stated in a post. If you want to expound or present a different view point, that is different. That deserves a response.

[Moderator]

This thread has gone far and wide off topic, complete with disrespectful comments. It's causing too much work. Thread closed.