I'll take "Things that never happened" for $800, Alex.

[holger danske]

A Man Died After Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID, Family Says

An Alabama Man Dies After Being Turned Away From 43 Hospitals At Capacity : Coronavirus Updates : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia)

NPR mission statement
"The mission of NPR is to work in partnership with Member Stations to create a more informed public — one challenged and invigorated by a deeper understanding and appreciation of events, ideas and cultures."

They published this article despite this "NPR attempted without success to reach the DeMonia family." and this

"A Cullman Regional Medical Center spokesperson, who declined to give specifics of Ray DeMonia's case, citing privacy concerns, confirmed to NPR that he was transferred from the hospital but said the reason was that he required "a higher level of specialized care not available" there."
#journalism

[Bill14564]

A Man Died After Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID, Family Says

An Alabama Man Dies After Being Turned Away From 43 Hospitals At Capacity : Coronavirus Updates : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia)

NPR mission statement
"The mission of NPR is to work in partnership with Member Stations to create a more informed public — one challenged and invigorated by a deeper understanding and appreciation of events, ideas and cultures."

They published this article despite this "NPR attempted without success to reach the DeMonia family." and this

"A Cullman Regional Medical Center spokesperson, who declined to give specifics of Ray DeMonia's case, citing privacy concerns, confirmed to NPR that he was transferred from the hospital but said the reason was that he required "a higher level of specialized care not available" there."
#journalism

What thing did not happen? Did he not die? Was he not transferred out of state? Did the hospital that transferred him not look to the in-state hospitals first? What thing did not happen?

[holger danske]

What thing did not happen? Did he not die? Was he not transferred out of state? Did the hospital that transferred him not look to the in-state hospitals first? What thing did not happen?

Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID,

[BrendaF]

Here is his obituary. I doubt he went to 43 hospitals but rather contacted 43 in 3 states as this obituary states. Ray DeMonia Obituary - Cullman, AL (https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/cullman-al/ray-demonia-10334481) I am assuming this is an vax anti-vax issue. The government can compel to vaccinate. I was fully vaccinated. My reluctant choice but did it and was quite sick with 2nd dose. I don’t know what the right thing to do is, but it is alarming that we can be compelled to vaccinate. Perhaps MMR DPT didn’t have the same alarming community response to vaccination. Perhaps the situation was different and those viruses weren’t considered manmade.

[Bill14564]

Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID,

How many was he turned away from? Where did you, sitting here in Florida, get the information that contradicts what was reported by the family and the hospital in Alabama?

[holger danske]

Here is his obituary. I doubt he went to 43 hospitals but rather contacted 43 in 3 states as this obituary states. Ray DeMonia Obituary - Cullman, AL (https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/cullman-al/ray-demonia-10334481) I am assuming this is an vax anti-vax issue. The government can compel to vaccinate. I was fully vaccinated. My reluctant choice but did it and was quite sick with 2nd dose. I don’t know what the right thing to do is, but it is alarming that we can be compelled to vaccinate. Perhaps MMR DPT didn’t have the same alarming community response to vaccination. Perhaps the situation was different and those viruses weren’t considered manmade.

No. It's a shoddy journalism issue. NPR is a news source relied on by many people. Yet they chose to run an article without adequate investigation to drive a certain agenda. Where in the article does it say the family contacted 43 hospitals but were turned away because of lack of space. The only hospital contacted said he needed specialized care not available there. I'm just calling BS on NPR. Don't turn it into a vax issue.

[holger danske]

How many was he turned away from? Where did you, sitting here in Florida, get the information that contradicts what was reported by the family and the hospital in Alabama?

Yup, you must be right because we read it on the internet.

[graciegirl]

No. It's a shoddy journalism issue. NPR is a news source relied on by many people. Yet they chose to run an article without adequate investigation to drive a certain agenda. Where in the article does it say the family contacted 43 hospitals but were turned away because of lack of space. The only hospital contacted said he needed specialized care not available there. I'm just calling BS on NPR. Don't turn it into a vax issue.

I admit I read the headline this morning and read no further. I was immediately skeptical about the facts.

I have noted possibly three articles in the last six months with similarly difficult to believe stories from NPR which in the past I had always depended on for good sourcing and careful checking.

I join the throngs of people who wonder, "Just who can be believed, anymore".

I still trust the CDC and the FDA but it has been very difficult to keep up with an ever changing situation and them getting all of the information they need.

I am tired boss.

[BrendaF]

No. It's a shoddy journalism issue. NPR is a news source relied on by many people. Yet they chose to run an article without adequate investigation to drive a certain agenda. Where in the article does it say the family contacted 43 hospitals but were turned away because of lack of space. The only hospital contacted said he needed specialized care not available there. I'm just calling BS on NPR. Don't turn it into a vax issue.

Definitely, the one minute I spent finding his obituary points to the shoddy journalism. I am saying that the media turned this into a vax issue by supplying an article inciting fear in the general public by not getting vaccinated, you may have a tough time finding an ER.

[Laker14]

*I* must be right? I'm simply asking you to do at least as much as the shoddy journalists at NPR. They contacted the hospital, attempted to contact the family, looked into the claims of over-capacity ICUs, and referenced both the obituary and another article that reported similar information. You claim the information is wrong but provide no reason at all why you believe that to be the case.

It all might be a made up story, that happens to often these days, but so far we have two news sources, the hospital, the family, Johns Hopkins University, and the head of the Alabama Dept. of Public Health with information that supports the story.

On the other hand, I did read a thread where a poster named holger danske says it didn't happen.

For heaven's sake, man, what more do you need?

[Nucky]

Shut this thread down......no valuable information just someone wanting to mix it up! IMHO!

[Kenswing]

Shut this thread down......no valuable information just someone wanting to mix it up! IMHO!
Yep. The pointless pot stirring bait threads seem to be endless these days.

[golfing eagles]

Shut this thread down......no valuable information just someone wanting to mix it up! IMHO!

Yep. My official opinion on this thread is "no comment"

[Dana1963]

Definitely, the one minute I spent finding his obituary points to the shoddy journalism. I am saying that the media turned this into a vax issue by supplying an article inciting fear in the general public by not getting vaccinated, you may have a tough time finding an ER.
You may have a hard time finding an ICU bed if you have a heart attack and all the facilities are in use. Alabama population only has a 40% of both shots. It's not news unless it supports the OP’s beliefs.

[roscoguy]

Where in the article does it say the family contacted 43 hospitals but were turned away because of lack of space.

I'm wondering if you actually read the article you linked??? Here's what it says, all the way down in the third paragraph: "Due to COVID 19, CRMC emergency staff contacted 43 hospitals in 3 states in search of a Cardiac ICU bed and finally located one in Meridian, MS.," the last paragraph of DeMonia's obituary reads, referring to the Cullman Regional Medical Center."

[lkagele]

I admit I read the headline this morning and read no further. I was immediately skeptical about the facts.

I have noted possibly three articles in the last six months with similarly difficult to believe stories from NPR which in the past I had always depended on for good sourcing and careful checking.

I join the throngs of people who wonder, "Just who can be believed, anymore".

I still trust the CDC and the FDA but it has been very difficult to keep up with an ever changing situation and them getting all of the information they need.

I am tired boss.

And the good thing is, those difficult to believe stories from NPR are being funded by your tax dollars.

[PugMom]

Shut this thread down......no valuable information just someone wanting to mix it up! IMHO!

indeed. there are already endless number of threads on covid, --just pick one & carry on

[tvbound]

I'm wondering if you actually read the article you linked??? Here's what it says, all the way down in the third paragraph: "Due to COVID 19, CRMC emergency staff contacted 43 hospitals in 3 states in search of a Cardiac ICU bed and finally located one in Meridian, MS.," the last paragraph of DeMonia's obituary reads, referring to the Cullman Regional Medical Center."

Thank you for also taking the time and effort to actually read the link. While no entity or news source is 100% perfect, if it comes down to believing the vast majority of what comes from Fox/AON/Newsmax/Etc. or NPR - I'll take NPR for $10K Alex.

[blueash]

A Man Died After Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID, Family Says

An Alabama Man Dies After Being Turned Away From 43 Hospitals At Capacity : Coronavirus Updates : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia)

...
#journalism

May I summarize? Holger comes on TOTV and starts a thread entitled

I'll take "Things that never happened" for $800, Alex. where he says the NPR story is made up, it never happened because ..reasons..

Several people fact check Holger and find, amazingly, that the NPR story is fully supported by the dead person's obituary and the state Health Dept.

The facts seem to be that the man presented to an ER in a hospital that could not manage his heart attack. The ER called 43 hospitals before they finally found one that would accept him as a patient, and he was transferred. He died in that out of state hospital from his heart attack. Had there been a closer place with an open ICU or CCU bed perhaps he lives, perhaps not. But the NPR story, the obituary and the other evidence is that the events as reported actually happened.

I am waiting for Holger to return and explain why he is attacking NPR, which in this case was 100% reliable, but is leaving his reliability in serious question by not retracting his assertion or further documenting why he believes he is right that this never happened. I can report that NPR does make mistakes, and when they are aware of them they make corrections. Will Holger do the same??

[tvbound]

May I summarize? Holger comes on TOTV and starts a thread entitled

I'll take "Things that never happened" for $800, Alex. where he says the NPR story is made up, it never happened because ..reasons..

Several people fact check Holger and find, amazingly, that the NPR story is fully supported by the dead person's obituary and the state Health Dept.

The facts seem to be that the man presented to an ER in a hospital that could not manage his heart attack. The ER called 43 hospitals before they finally found one that would accept him as a patient, and he was transferred. He died in that out of state hospital from his heart attack. Had there been a closer place with an open ICU or CCU bed perhaps he lives, perhaps not. But the NPR story, the obituary and the other evidence is that the events as reported actually happened.

I am waiting for Holger to return and explain why he is attacking NPR, which in this case was 100% reliable, but is leaving his reliability in serious question by not retracting his assertion or further documenting why he believes he is right that this never happened. I can report that NPR does make mistakes, and when they are aware of them they make corrections. Will Holger do the same??


"...explain why he is attacking NPR..."


With all due respect, I don't think there are too many who don't know the real answer to that.

[blueash]

And the good thing is, those difficult to believe stories from NPR are being funded by your tax dollars.

And that "difficult to believe story" is seemingly true, amazing.

[DAVES]

A Man Died After Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID, Family Says

An Alabama Man Dies After Being Turned Away From 43 Hospitals At Capacity : Coronavirus Updates : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia)

NPR mission statement
"The mission of NPR is to work in partnership with Member Stations to create a more informed public — one challenged and invigorated by a deeper understanding and appreciation of events, ideas and cultures."

They published this article despite this "NPR attempted without success to reach the DeMonia family." and this

"A Cullman Regional Medical Center spokesperson, who declined to give specifics of Ray DeMonia's case, citing privacy concerns, confirmed to NPR that he was transferred from the hospital but said the reason was that he required "a higher level of specialized care not available" there."
#journalism

We demand, we expect perfection. Reality is perfection does not exist. Enough facilities to handle the current expanded load. Yes, it is money. We would then object to the high cost of medical care.

He required a higher level of specialized care. They cannot say, based on his coverage to treat him will be a loss.

[Boomer]

Well, I now get most of my news from Stephen Colbert.

Boomer

[Topspinmo]

And the good thing is, those difficult to believe stories from NPR are being funded by your tax dollars.


Yes we had to save big bird.

[banjobob]

More fear mongering , if you are with weakened immunity protect yourself , quit posting isolated cases of folks that did not protect themselves.

[72lions]

CBS last night reported a young boy with appendicitis waited hours before being seen because all he’d were taken by COVID patients. Father confirmed they nearly list their son.

[Joe C.]

Npr = national propaganda reporting

[Girlcopper]

A Man Died After Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID, Family Says

An Alabama Man Dies After Being Turned Away From 43 Hospitals At Capacity : Coronavirus Updates : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia)

NPR mission statement
"The mission of NPR is to work in partnership with Member Stations to create a more informed public — one challenged and invigorated by a deeper understanding and appreciation of events, ideas and cultures."

They published this article despite this "NPR attempted without success to reach the DeMonia family." and this

"A Cullman Regional Medical Center spokesperson, who declined to give specifics of Ray DeMonia's case, citing privacy concerns, confirmed to NPR that he was transferred from the hospital but said the reason was that he required "a higher level of specialized care not available" there."
#journalism
So? He wasnt turned away from ICUs as you say. The hospital was at capacity plus they didnt have the level of care he needed. I dont understand the reason to repost this article

[irishwonone]

A Man Died After Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID, Family Says

An Alabama Man Dies After Being Turned Away From 43 Hospitals At Capacity : Coronavirus Updates : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia)

NPR mission statement
"The mission of NPR is to work in partnership with Member Stations to create a more informed public — one challenged and invigorated by a deeper understanding and appreciation of events, ideas and cultures."

They published this article despite this "NPR attempted without success to reach the DeMonia family." and this

"A Cullman Regional Medical Center spokesperson, who declined to give specifics of Ray DeMonia's case, citing privacy concerns, confirmed to NPR that he was transferred from the hospital but said the reason was that he required "a higher level of specialized care not available" there."
#journalism
Only 43??

[kitnhead]

No. It's a shoddy journalism issue. NPR is a news source relied on by many people. Yet they chose to run an article without adequate investigation to drive a certain agenda. Where in the article does it say the family contacted 43 hospitals but were turned away because of lack of space. The only hospital contacted said he needed specialized care not available there. I'm just calling BS on NPR. Don't turn it into a vax issue.

It is shoddy journalism and it’s not the first time. My husband and I worked for the government and were on the inside of many criminal cases. The local NPR in So Cal lied regularly and would use unnecessary adjectives to describe agencies they didn’t like. For example, “the all-too-powerful prison guard’s Union”. How about “the prison guards union voted today to request stab vests inside of every level of prison”.?

[Luggage]

We have brains so we may filter all this garbage . It was a click bait title . But the truth is we do have many hospitals at near capacity .

[Laker14]

I don't know if we'll ever figure this out, but one thing that I have always felt was wrong, and this pandemic has reenforced for me, is the idea that we have these huge buildings, i.e. hospitals, where we send, treat, and concentrate, infectious people, and then we send into these same buildings, patients and care providers who aren't sick or infectious.
If I need a new knee, or I've been in a car accident, or I'm having a heart attack, why am I being sent to a building full of infected people? If I work as a surgeon or nurse or radiographic technician, why am a working in building full of infected, and infectious people?
I'm sure the answer would be "well, there is an economy of scale here. We can use the same billing and business staff." A stock answer but I wonder if that really is even true when weighed against the cost of cross-transmission of infectious organisms from the treatment of infected people to non-infected people in the current health care model.

[merrymini]

I don't know if we'll ever figure this out, but one thing that I have always felt was wrong, and this pandemic has reenforced for me, is the idea that we have these huge buildings, i.e. hospitals, where we send, treat, and concentrate, infectious people, and then we send into these same buildings, patients and care providers who aren't sick or infectious.
If I need a new knee, or I've been in a car accident, or I'm having a heart attack, why am I being sent to a building full of infected people? If I work as a surgeon or nurse or radiographic technician, why am a working in building full of infected, and infectious people?
I'm sure the answer would be "well, there is an economy of scale here. We can use the same billing and business staff." A stock answer but I wonder if that really is even true when weighed against the cost of cross-transmission of infectious organisms from the treatment of infected people to non-infected people in the current health care model.

Are you proposing a hospital for infectious disease, one for heart attacks, one for car accidents? You cannot possibly be serious.

[kendi]

Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID,

Capacity doesn’t necessarily mean the hospital is full. It also includes the hospital’s ability to serve patient’s based on the number of staff. And as we all know there is a shortage of staff and it’s only getting worse. But the media sure loves to push the panic button in those who swallow their pill.

[Rosebud1949]

a man died after being turned away from 43 icus at capacity due to covid, family says

an alabama man dies after being turned away from 43 hospitals at capacity : Coronavirus updates : Npr (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia)

npr mission statement
"the mission of npr is to work in partnership with member stations to create a more informed public — one challenged and invigorated by a deeper understanding and appreciation of events, ideas and cultures."

they published this article despite this "npr attempted without success to reach the demonia family." and this

"a cullman regional medical center spokesperson, who declined to give specifics of ray demonia's case, citing privacy concerns, confirmed to npr that he was transferred from the hospital but said the reason was that he required "a higher level of specialized care not available" there."
#journalism

take all the non vaxers with covid , send them to a hospital with non vaxxed staff for treatment. Take all kids whose parents do not want them to wear a mask and send them to a school where the staff are not vaxxed. Then leave us sensible folk alone to try and survive these people"s total disregard for anyone who cares about their fellow man.

Btw you can send anti vaxxers the medicals bills for spreading covid.

Then perhaps the insurance companies will finally come to their senses and decided if you are not vaxxed that you should pay a higher premium.

[D.Bolen]

I don't know if we'll ever figure this out, but one thing that I have always felt was wrong, and this pandemic has reenforced for me, is the idea that we have these huge buildings, i.e. hospitals, where we send, treat, and concentrate, infectious people, and then we send into these same buildings, patients and care providers who aren't sick or infectious. ....

Throughout the country, there are some "surgical hospitals" where patients are not ill or contagious and there only for surgical procedures. My husband had his back surgery at one of these in another state. The facility was co-owned by a group of surgeons (I don't know the exact financial arrangements or whether some non-owner physicians could pay for privileges, etc.) who would generally alternate their procedures between this surgical hospital (for low-risk patients) and a more traditional hospital for surgeries on their higher-risk patients. The experience at this surgical facility was much less stressful than the usual hospital stay.

[waterflower]

fear monger .....troll alert

[Waltdisney4life]

Bs!!!

[Laker14]

Are you proposing a hospital for infectious disease, one for heart attacks, one for car accidents? You cannot possibly be serious.

Not a separate facility for car accidents and heart attacks. That would be unnecessary. I'm suggesting a paradigm shift that separates infectious disease from non-infectious medical procedures. This would reduce drastically the iatrogenic source of infectious disease spread.
And yes, I'm deadly serious.
In the long run it would save lives and money.

[roscoguy]

It is shoddy journalism and it’s not the first time. My husband and I worked for the government and were on the inside of many criminal cases. The local NPR in So Cal lied regularly and would use unnecessary adjectives to describe agencies they didn’t like. For example, “the all-too-powerful prison guard’s Union”. How about “the prison guards union voted today to request stab vests inside of every level of prison”.?

Where exactly is the shoddy journalism, pray tell? It seems to be that the actual thing that never happened is the OP (and many others that have replied here) even bothering to READ the article. Allow me to help with a couple of quotes: "Due to COVID 19, CRMC emergency staff contacted 43 hospitals in 3 states in search of a Cardiac ICU bed and finally located one in Meridian, MS.,". And then this: "DeMonia's daughter, Raven DeMonia, told The Washington Post that it was "shocking" when the hospital told the family there were no ICU beds anywhere near Cullman, a town of about 16,000 some 50 miles north of Birmingham."

The entire article, updated 9/14/21, is here: An Alabama Man Dies After Being Turned Away From 43 Hospitals At Capacity : Coronavirus Updates : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia)

[Geodyssey]

My cousin called and said he heard that FOX News just reported that a fleet of over 40 refrigerated portable morgues and mobile crematoriums are headed from New Jersey to Florida!

Our neighbor said he heard the local hospital is stacking dozens of bodies in closets because they are out of room.

[Ptmckiou]

A Man Died After Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID, Family Says

An Alabama Man Dies After Being Turned Away From 43 Hospitals At Capacity : Coronavirus Updates : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia)

NPR mission statement
"The mission of NPR is to work in partnership with Member Stations to create a more informed public — one challenged and invigorated by a deeper understanding and appreciation of events, ideas and cultures."

They published this article despite this "NPR attempted without success to reach the DeMonia family." and this

"A Cullman Regional Medical Center spokesperson, who declined to give specifics of Ray DeMonia's case, citing privacy concerns, confirmed to NPR that he was transferred from the hospital but said the reason was that he required "a higher level of specialized care not available" there."
#journalism

One of the networks had his family on. They are trying to get the word out how bad it is. The doctor did contact 43 hospitals for an open ICU bed. I have a doctor, nurse, and other medical professionals in my family. It is that bad.

[holger danske]

Where exactly is the shoddy journalism, pray tell? It seems to be that the actual thing that never happened is the OP (and many others that have replied here) even bothering to READ the article. Allow me to help with a couple of quotes: "Due to COVID 19, CRMC emergency staff contacted 43 hospitals in 3 states in search of a Cardiac ICU bed and finally located one in Meridian, MS.,". And then this: "DeMonia's daughter, Raven DeMonia, told The Washington Post that it was "shocking" when the hospital told the family there were no ICU beds anywhere near Cullman, a town of about 16,000 some 50 miles north of Birmingham."

The entire article, updated 9/14/21, is here: An Alabama Man Dies After Being Turned Away From 43 Hospitals At Capacity : Coronavirus Updates : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia)

As the OP I take exception to your twice posted accusation that I did not read the NPR
article. Not only did I read it but I read the WP article on which it was based and Ray's obit as well as other articles on Cullman and Rush Hospital.
From the WP article I learned that Ray's daughter who was quoted was Jeopardy fan hence the not so clever reference in my post's title to Jeopardy.

I also notice some discrepancies between the two, for example- NPR article "DeMonia's daughter, Raven DeMonia, told The Washington Post that it was "shocking" when the hospital told the family there were no ICU beds anywhere near Cullman, a town of about 16,000 some 50 miles north of Birmingham.” and the WP article “Raven DeMonia, his daughter, told The Washington Post on Sunday that it was “shocking” when the family was told that dozens of ICUs were unable to treat her father.
Now you may feel that is a distinction without a difference but I do not. I believe it was changed to subtly influence readers to buy the premise of their story.

Nowhere in either article does it say Cullman had no ICU beds available or that Ray was denied one there. The hospital spokesperson merely confirmed he was a patient there and that “The level of care he required was not available at Cullman Regional.” (Sort of sounds like the Villages Hospital that routinely airlifts patients to Leesburg) I think that neither article mentioning whether Ray was in an ICU bed or a regular bed is telling. If he was denied an ICU bed it would have been included at it would fit the agenda.
WP article mentions a “specialized cardiac ICU bed” was needed. Rush Hospital in Meridien has a a facility called The Specialty Hospital of Meridian … a 49 bed facility providing acute-level care for patients suffering from medically complex illnesses. Sort of fits Ray’s profile considering he had a stroke in 2020 requiring hospitalization in Birmingham some 50 miles from Cullman.
Yes his obit says "Due to covid-19....." but placement of any information in any obit does not rise to the level requiring journalistic standards and an article using such info is merely bootstrapping to support their argument. I notice that neither the hospital nor the other authorities quoted concede that this particular transfer was caused by overcrowding.
So in sum, I did read the articles, I used a not so clever title gleaned from them and I found their headlines and the tenor of the article agenda driven and to constitute shoddy journalism.
Feel free to swallow what you will.

[graciegirl]

I don't know if we'll ever figure this out, but one thing that I have always felt was wrong, and this pandemic has reenforced for me, is the idea that we have these huge buildings, i.e. hospitals, where we send, treat, and concentrate, infectious people, and then we send into these same buildings, patients and care providers who aren't sick or infectious.
If I need a new knee, or I've been in a car accident, or I'm having a heart attack, why am I being sent to a building full of infected people? If I work as a surgeon or nurse or radiographic technician, why am a working in building full of infected, and infectious people?
I'm sure the answer would be "well, there is an economy of scale here. We can use the same billing and business staff." A stock answer but I wonder if that really is even true when weighed against the cost of cross-transmission of infectious organisms from the treatment of infected people to non-infected people in the current health care model.

What a thought provoking post. I applaud this thinking. I think some have tried versions of this with outpatient buildings and separate facilities at large teaching institutions for pediatric diagnostics....etc. buildings and units that are attached to excellent hospitals, but this never was needed as badly as it is now.

This is a new problem. And, I hope that it will be a transient situation. I do hope that people who will NOT get vaccinated, get treated and live. But one way or another, it sadly seems that it will get better, get done or do us all in eventually.

[golfing eagles]

My cousin called and said he heard that FOX News just reported that a fleet of over 40 refrigerated portable morgues and mobile crematoriums are headed from New Jersey to Florida!

Our neighbor said he heard the local hospital is stacking dozens of bodies in closets because they are out of room.

And my mailman's babysitter's cousin's plumber reported seeing Elvis yesterday:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Nick B]

And the good thing is, those difficult to believe stories from NPR are being funded by your tax dollars.
You sure about that?

[Nick B]

Are you proposing a hospital for infectious disease, one for heart attacks, one for car accidents? You cannot possibly be serious.
We used to have TB hospitals right here in FL.

[Nick B]

Yes we had to save big bird.
PBS and NPR are not the same.

[Nick B]

Capacity doesn’t necessarily mean the hospital is full. It also includes the hospital’s ability to serve patient’s based on the number of staff. And as we all know there is a shortage of staff and it’s only getting worse. But the media sure loves to push the panic button in those who swallow their pill.
If only they took the Red pill it would be OK right?

[Timothyimitchell]

No. It's a shoddy journalism issue. NPR is a news source relied on by many people. Yet they chose to run an article without adequate investigation to drive a certain agenda. Where in the article does it say the family contacted 43 hospitals but were turned away because of lack of space. The only hospital contacted said he needed specialized care not available there. I'm just calling BS on NPR. Don't turn it into a vax issue.

You called B'S on the right organization

[thelegges]

Not a separate facility for car accidents and heart attacks. That would be unnecessary. I'm suggesting a paradigm shift that separates infectious disease from non-infectious medical procedures. This would reduce drastically the iatrogenic source of infectious disease spread.
And yes, I'm deadly serious.
In the long run it would save lives and money.

I lost count long time ago, on how many times I was notified days or weeks later, that I was exposed, something infectious.

Patients don’t come with bar codes, and sometimes aren’t diagnosed with issues for days. Nothing unusual to be notified the patient you did a procedure 8 days ago Has just been diagnosed with TB.

Then you get the “We understand TB precautions were not used during this procedure, and you will need to be tested.” 40 year’s of being exposed to pretty much anything you can think of, gives you a different perspective on reality of working in healthcare. Sometimes the wheels on the bus are not present until it’s too late.

Your idea only works if every patient was tested for any possible issue, then wait for days or weeks for results before being admitted.

Sir I am sorry you are in CHF, trauma from accident, internal bleeding, but we need to make sure you don’t have anything infectious before you can come thru our doors. So in your ideal hospital, money would be saved, but lives would definitely be lost.

[Laker14]

I lost count long time ago, on how many times I was notified days or weeks later, that I was exposed, something infectious.

Patients don’t come with bar codes, and sometimes aren’t diagnosed with issues for days. Nothing unusual to be notified the patient you did a procedure 8 days ago Has just been diagnosed with TB.

Then you get the “We understand TB precautions were not used during this procedure, and you will need to be tested.” 40 year’s of being exposed to pretty much anything you can think of, gives you a different perspective on reality of working in healthcare. Sometimes the wheels on the bus are not present until it’s too late.

Your idea only works if every patient was tested for any possible issue, then wait for days or weeks for results before being admitted.

Sir I am sorry you are in CHF, trauma from accident, internal bleeding, but we need to make sure you don’t have anything infectious before you can come thru our doors. So in your ideal hospital, money would be saved, but lives would definitely be lost.

I appreciate your response, and your years of first hand experience in the trenches. You know more about this than I, obviously. I see your point, that in critical emergency situations, and in triage, patients have to be treated without the benefit of knowing if they are infectious or not. But isn't your scenario similar to riding a bus, subway or going to an indoor concert. I'm not suggesting that separating infectious from non-infectious care will provide total isolation, but doesn't it make sense that once known, outside of the realm of emergent critical care, such separation would serve to reduce cross infection from inside the facility?

[thelegges]

I appreciate your response, and your years of first hand experience in the trenches. You know more about this than I, obviously. I see your point, that in critical emergency situations, and in triage, patients have to be treated without the benefit of knowing if they are infectious or not. But isn't your scenario similar to riding a bus, subway or going to an indoor concert. I'm not suggesting that separating infectious from non-infectious care will provide total isolation, but doesn't it make sense that once known, outside of the realm of emergent critical care, such separation would serve to reduce cross infection from inside the facility?


If a patient is diagnosed after arrival, there are protocols, for isolation rooms, in the hospital, in ED, and the OR.

Every facility has a epidemiologist and staff to put protocol in place, and those I have know personally take their positions to the highest level. Difference today is the air quality of the isolation rooms has greatly improved over the last 40 years.

“Do No Harm” is for a healthy patient, the undiagnosed, and the diagnosed.

If a patient has been diagnosed prior,and admitted by their personal physician, the facility is given the information by the physician, prior to patient arrival, plus their EMRs are available to the staff, which is standard protocol.

However, the patient comes to the ED then to a procedure or OR, the patient may not be capable or aware.

Now if the patient is a repeater, staff knows the patient so well, protocol is put in place soon as patient arrives. You know that patient so well, you are like a adopted family.

You might want to speak to your PCP about your concerns if you don’t feel safe going to the doctors office, outpatient surgery center, or a hospital. Then you can ask for the protocol that the facilities have in place, and about cross contamination. Facilities would never be able to operate a separate facility as you are suggesting. Part of the issue during Covid was people were afraid to go to a hospital, call EMS, continue chemo, and even if they were having chest pain.

After 40 plus years In healthcare, fear has never been about what I have been exposed to. If it was then you chose the wrong profession.

[OhioBuckeye]

What’s the question? Is the question, did he go to 43 hospitals or get rejected to come? Your comment just sounds like a remark. Sorry don’t know what you want for an answer.

[Spalumbos62]

May I summarize? Holger comes on TOTV and starts a thread entitled

I'll take "Things that never happened" for $800, Alex. where he says the NPR story is made up, it never happened because ..reasons..

Several people fact check Holger and find, amazingly, that the NPR story is fully supported by the dead person's obituary and the state Health Dept.

The facts seem to be that the man presented to an ER in a hospital that could not manage his heart attack. The ER called 43 hospitals before they finally found one that would accept him as a patient, and he was transferred. He died in that out of state hospital from his heart attack. Had there been a closer place with an open ICU or CCU bed perhaps he lives, perhaps not. But the NPR story, the obituary and the other evidence is that the events as reported actually happened.

I am waiting for Holger to return and explain why he is attacking NPR, which in this case was 100% reliable, but is leaving his reliability in serious question by not retracting his assertion or further documenting why he believes he is right that this never happened. I can report that NPR does make mistakes, and when they are aware of them they make corrections. Will Holger do the same??


Do you really need to wonder. There is absolutely no doubt this is a "non" person spinning a true story, in fact I also read it elsewhere. Walking around in fl nonvaxed is beyond brainless. As I just attended my fl friend's funeral.

[Spalumbos62]

take all the non vaxers with covid , send them to a hospital with non vaxxed staff for treatment. Take all kids whose parents do not want them to wear a mask and send them to a school where the staff are not vaxxed. Then leave us sensible folk alone to try and survive these people"s total disregard for anyone who cares about their fellow man.

Btw you can send anti vaxxers the medicals bills for spreading covid.

Then perhaps the insurance companies will finally come to their senses and decided if you are not vaxxed that you should pay a higher premium.


I love every word of your post.

[Packer Fan]

I can believe that they contacted that many before finding a bed. My best friend mr former antivaxxer (he has changed his mind). Spent 2 weeks in August in The Villages hospital. The first 4
Days he spent in a cubicle in ER because they had no rooms. My wife, an RN, called 7
Hospitals in Ocala and Orlando and all were full. I dropped him off and picked him up and both times the ER was full of non vaccinated Covid patients. His doctor told us he only had one vaccinated 80 year old admitted and the rest of the hospital was full of unvaccinated patients. Luckily he got out, but he is still on 4 liters a minute of oxygen 7 weeks later. We are hoping he recovers, he is 59. My wife and I were in the same house with him and never got a sniffle because we are both vaccinated. I can attest that Moderna and Pfizer both work great.
Bottom line is the antivaxxers are filling our hospitals.

[roscoguy]

No. It's a shoddy journalism issue. NPR is a news source relied on by many people. Yet they chose to run an article without adequate investigation to drive a certain agenda. Where in the article does it say the family contacted 43 hospitals but were turned away because of lack of space. The only hospital contacted said he needed specialized care not available there. I'm just calling BS on NPR. Don't turn it into a vax issue.

As the OP I take exception to your twice posted accusation that I did not read the NPR
article. Not only did I read it but I read the WP article on which it was based and Ray's obit as well as other articles on Cullman and Rush Hospital.
From the WP article I learned that Ray's daughter who was quoted was Jeopardy fan hence the not so clever reference in my post's title to Jeopardy.

I also notice some discrepancies between the two, for example- NPR article "DeMonia's daughter, Raven DeMonia, told The Washington Post that it was "shocking" when the hospital told the family there were no ICU beds anywhere near Cullman, a town of about 16,000 some 50 miles north of Birmingham.” and the WP article “Raven DeMonia, his daughter, told The Washington Post on Sunday that it was “shocking” when the family was told that dozens of ICUs were unable to treat her father.
Now you may feel that is a distinction without a difference but I do not. I believe it was changed to subtly influence readers to buy the premise of their story.

Nowhere in either article does it say Cullman had no ICU beds available or that Ray was denied one there. The hospital spokesperson merely confirmed he was a patient there and that “The level of care he required was not available at Cullman Regional.” (Sort of sounds like the Villages Hospital that routinely airlifts patients to Leesburg) I think that neither article mentioning whether Ray was in an ICU bed or a regular bed is telling. If he was denied an ICU bed it would have been included at it would fit the agenda.
WP article mentions a “specialized cardiac ICU bed” was needed. Rush Hospital in Meridien has a a facility called The Specialty Hospital of Meridian … a 49 bed facility providing acute-level care for patients suffering from medically complex illnesses. Sort of fits Ray’s profile considering he had a stroke in 2020 requiring hospitalization in Birmingham some 50 miles from Cullman.
Yes his obit says "Due to covid-19....." but placement of any information in any obit does not rise to the level requiring journalistic standards and an article using such info is merely bootstrapping to support their argument. I notice that neither the hospital nor the other authorities quoted concede that this particular transfer was caused by overcrowding.
So in sum, I did read the articles, I used a not so clever title gleaned from them and I found their headlines and the tenor of the article agenda driven and to constitute shoddy journalism.
Feel free to swallow what you will.

Well, if you read the NPR story, you got something completely different than I did. You are absolutely right, the article didn't say that Cullman had no beds, it said that the needed level of care wasn't available there and that "Due to COVID 19, CRMC emergency staff contacted 43 hospitals in 3 states in search of a Cardiac ICU bed and finally located one in Meridian, MS.", which the NPR article did indeed quote directly from Mr. DeMonia's obituary.
However, I still can't understand what you feel "never happened" or was misrepresented in the NPR story. Do you have reason to believe that there were ICU beds available or, conversely, that the hospitals contacted were not at or near ICU capacity, at least in part due to COVID patients? More quotes from the article, from sources other than an obituary: "ICU capacity in Alabama has been maxed out in recent weeks, and COVID-19 patients occupy about half of the intensive care beds, according to Johns Hopkins University."
And this:
"Speaking last week, Dr. Scott Harris, the head of the Alabama Department of Public Health, said the state was continuing to experience "a real crisis" with ICU bed capacity."
I still see no "shoddy journalism" at all. :shrug: :confused:

[holger danske]

Well, if you read the NPR story, you got something completely different than I did. You are absolutely right, the article didn't say that Cullman had no beds, it said that the needed level of care wasn't available there and that "Due to COVID 19, CRMC emergency staff contacted 43 hospitals in 3 states in search of a Cardiac ICU bed and finally located one in Meridian, MS.", which the NPR article did indeed quote directly from Mr. DeMonia's obituary.
However, I still can't understand what you feel "never happened" or was misrepresented in the NPR story. Do you have reason to believe that there were ICU beds available or, conversely, that the hospitals contacted were not at or near ICU capacity, at least in part due to COVID patients? More quotes from the article, from sources other than an obituary: "ICU capacity in Alabama has been maxed out in recent weeks, and COVID-19 patients occupy about half of the intensive care beds, according to Johns Hopkins University."
And this:
"Speaking last week, Dr. Scott Harris, the head of the Alabama Department of Public Health, said the state was continuing to experience "a real crisis" with ICU bed capacity."
I still see no "shoddy journalism" at all. :shrug: :confused:

Simply put we read what we want to read into an article.

"Do you have reason to believe that there were ICU beds available or, conversely, that the hospitals contacted were not at or near ICU capacity, at least in part due to COVID patients? Your question proves my point. The article gives me no reason to believe or disbelieve any of that AS IT RELATES to this patient. The reporter spoke to the hospital. Wouldn't you expect him to have asked these questions.
Did Cullman not have a cardiac ICU bed because of overcrowding caused by Covid?
Did the hospitals you contacted not have a cardiac ICU bed because of overcrowding caused by Covid? The answers could have easily confirmed the statement in the obit. The absence of such in the article leads one to conclude either he did not ask the questions or did ask the question and the hospital's answers did not fit his narrative. Either way my friend is what shoddy journalism is.
The final 2 quotes in your post may be accurate or not but they add nothing to the particular case in question. I suspect they were included elicit sympathy and to persuade the reader of the accuracy of the writer's narrative - to wit Ray's plight was caused by Covid spikes that were in turn caused by the unvaxxed.

We hear what we want to hear, new study confirms - UPI.com (https://www.upi.com/Science_News/2021/09/14/bias-misinformation-people-hear-what-they-want-to-study/4651631623349/)

[Bogie Shooter]

No winner……🤓

[roscoguy]

Simply put we read what we want to read into an article.

:agree: Your truest post yet? The rest seems to be little more than circular logic, justifying your spin on a truthful article that even included support from various sources. Someone may well have an agenda here, it just doesn't seem to be NPR... ;)

[holger danske]

:agree: Your truest post yet? The rest seems to be little more than circular logic, justifying your spin on a truthful article that even included support from various sources. Someone may well have an agenda here, it just doesn't seem to be NPR... ;)
seriously underwhelmed with your rhetoric and flawed logic. continue to enjoy your advocacy journalism.

[roscoguy]

seriously underwhelmed with your rhetoric and flawed logic. continue to enjoy your advocacy journalism.

Yeah, mine. OK...:1rotfl: