Made in America

[Bay Kid]

Do we make anything in America anymore? Seems like everything is made in other countries.

[DAIII]

As far as vehicles go--

Tesla- made in America. (parts and software)

[JMintzer]

As far as vehicles go--

Tesla- made in America. (parts and software)

"Assembly" has nothing to do with the parts country of origin...

[Toymeister]

Yes but we have become accustomed to cheap products and have become used to products that break.

Example: retractable cord reels. Those extension cords that hang high in the garage/shop ready to power any tool. Chinese made (home Depot) 79.00 to 129.00.

US made (ReelCraft brand) 349.00.

I have American made ones, it's one less item to fail. Mathematically it is foolish. The pain of buying quality is felt once. Breakdowns are felt repeatedly.

[villagetinker]

If you type in 'made in america products' you will get several sites that will answer your question, I was trying to give you a website that I get a newsletter from on typically a monthly basis, I did not see it but will post if I can find an old email. To answer your question YES, I especially like Leatherman products.

[retiredguy123]

FYI, a lot of clothing is labeled as "Made in USA" in violation of the FTC rules. If the clothing fabric was imported, which most of it is, the clothing should be labeled "Made in USA with imported fabric".

[tvbound]

"Made in America" purchases will only come back in vogue, when people are willing to pay more (often a LOT more) for essentially the same products. It's simply common sense, that if you're paying employees more - then the cost of the goods or services will most likely be more. In essence, we have only ourselves to blame for the amount of foreign made services/goods, when we prioritize price. The ultimate irony being, that those foreign countries making so many of our products are simply trying to follow the old American model - of creating a burgeoning middle class/strong economy.

[PugMom]

exactly, US made costs more, but you do feel better using it. i threw away all our cookware not made in usa, -it was a tiny fortune replacing it, but knowing the risk of teflon poisoning has been eliminated makes it worth the cost. :coolsmiley:

[blueash]

exactly, US made costs more, but you do feel better using it. i threw away all our cookware not made in usa, -it was a tiny fortune replacing it, but knowing the risk of teflon poisoning has been eliminated makes it worth the cost. :coolsmiley:

Please teach me about the risk of teflon poisoning which is so significant you threw away all your cookware. Teflon of course is a product brought to you by good old American industry and ingenuity.
By the way, I am a human not a bird.

[jdulej]

I try to follow this hierarchy, but it's not always easy

Made in USA by a USA based company, not owned by a Chinese company (there are a lot of these)
Made in USA (USA workers, don't care where the profits go)
Made in Mexico or Central America (keep people working there)
Made in Third World country not China
Made in other First World countries (Europe, Japan, etc)
Made in China

I sometimes also chase down where all the parts are made, but there are only 24 hrs in a day

[alwann]

Do we make anything in America anymore? Seems like everything is made in other countries.

Well, many brands of beer are still brewed in the U.S. And that's nice.

[frose]

we don't even make americans in america anymore, just socialists and marxist wanna be's.. such a shame.

[Road-Runner]

I try to follow this hierarchy, but it's not always easy

Made in USA by a USA based company, not owned by a Chinese company (there are a lot of these)
Made in USA (USA workers, don't care where the profits go)
Made in Mexico or Central America (keep people working there)
Made in Third World country not China
Made in other First World countries (Europe, Japan, etc)
Made in China

I sometimes also chase down where all the parts are made, but there are only 24 hrs in a day

Great list, I would add (and only if I can't do without it) to your Made in China line. Of course, when 90+% of all pharmaceuticals are made in China it's tough to enforce.

[Topspinmo]

America was sold out in mid 60’s where we allowed metric crap from south America, it steadily got worse. When EPA lowered boom CEO’s just moved production out of country with no repercussions. Polit—- got richer and working man got poorer. Now we are country of imports and handouts all to support career ******. (Fill in word that makes you feel good)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I am anti-isolationist. So I don't really care which country makes a thing, or which country makes a part of a thing that was used to make a thing. I care if it's a) something I actually want, b) affordable compared to similar things, c) readily available, d) of a measure of quality that meets or exceeds minimum standards, which depends entirely on what the thing is.

If my plastic credit card was made with petroleum imported from Saudi Arabia, I'm not going to refuse to use the credit card. In fact, my "care-o-meter" level of the country of origin of that plastic is at 1, only because there is no 0 on the care-o-meter.

If your car was made completely 100% in the USA, but all the machinery in the manufacturer's shop that is used to make the car was made in another country, would you care? No, scratch that. DO you even know what country the screws on the paint machine were made in? No, no you don't. You have no idea where those drills and paint machines and tire-pressure-gauges and whatever else is used to make a car, came from. Nor do you care.

And have you been into a Tesla plant lately, to make sure that all the employees were "made in America?" How many of them were "imported" and are citizens here, but born somewhere else? Have you checked? Have you cared enough to even wonder? Of course you haven't.

So - your "care" of the country of origin is noted. And insignificant.

[Kelevision]

Do we make anything in America anymore? Seems like everything is made in other countries.

I don’t really care where it’s made as long as it’s good quality.

[Arctic Fox]

Do we make anything in America anymore? Seems like everything is made in other countries.

The USA is the World's third largest exporter - a fact often missed when we concentrate just on foreign-produced stuff that we buy.

It is also a net exporter of food (importing less than 15% of what we consume).

[JMintzer]

Yes but we have become accustomed to cheap products and have become used to products that break.

Example: retractable cord reels. Those extension cords that hang high in the garage/shop ready to power any tool. Chinese made (home Depot) 79.00 to 129.00.

US made (ReelCraft brand) 349.00.

I have American made ones, it's one less item to fail. Mathematically it is foolish. The pain of buying quality is felt once. Breakdowns are felt repeatedly.

Yup! Buy once, cry once...

[JMintzer]

Well, many brands of beer are still brewed in the U.S. And that's nice.

And Bourbon Whiskey...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

There are plenty of imported goods that are superior to domestic products, and there are plenty of imported products that aren't made in China. I'm fine with either Vermont or Canadian maple syrup, though I prefer Vermont. But Canadian is cheaper. If I can't have real actual maple syrup, I won't put ANY syrup on my pancakes at all. In fact when I eat at IHOP I don't use syrup, I just put butter on the pancakes.

When I'm in the mood for Chinese food, I trust the Chinese to know best how to make it, over an American.

Most American crossover SUVs are crap, and their warranties are crap. If I'm gonna get a crappy SUV, I'd rather pay a lot less, for a much better warranty, and get a Kia Soul - made in South Korea.

If I'm looking for a luxury car, I'd probably go for German or British engineering.

For my smoked salmon, I want it from Nova Scotia, Canada.

Bath towels? They can be made in the middle of the Atlantic ocean on an oil barge from Zimbabwe for all I care. If they keep me dry and don't stain my laundry purple they're fine.

Anyone who thinks caviar is the epitome of sophistication would probably laugh at you if you suggested that American caviar was better in any way, shape, or form, than Beluga caviar from Russia. And unless your idea of a fur coat is grand-dad's racoon hat and a couple fox tails from them that tried killin our hens in the back yard, you'll want your furs imported as well.

Some things are just flat out better if they're imported. Some, not so much. But to think that only Americans can make stuff good, is foolish, wasteful, and - xenophobic.



Xenophobia is not attractive. It's also counter-productive.

[Velvet]

Wine, Napa wine definitely made in USA.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Wine, Napa wine definitely made in USA.

I kind of like Meiomi's Pinot Noir. California, semi-sweet red. Very fruity. Other than Manschewitz Concord Grape, New York vineyards, I don't really like wine at all.

I like my rum Puerto Rican (which is to say, American).

I like my chocolate liqueur imported from Italy (Meletti is the brand).

Most bananas sold in the USA (including those sold in Florida supermarkets) are grown in Guatemala, Ecuador, Costa Rica, Columbia, and Honduras.

EVEN THOUGH Florida is one of the top 2 banana growers in the USA.

Florida does not value "home grown" at all; even during the season, orange prices are no better here than they are back home in New England and even though tomato plants can thrive for most of the year, most of the tomatoes you get at the supermarket are from somewhere other than Florida.

For all the talk of "Made in America" there are just way too many people who make a lot of noise - but don't walk the talk.

[wlasowicz]

weathertec car floor mats are made in the US not sure about the material that use to make where that comes from.

[Topspinmo]

I am anti-isolationist. So I don't really care which country makes a thing, or which country makes a part of a thing that was used to make a thing. I care if it's a) something I actually want, b) affordable compared to similar things, c) readily available, d) of a measure of quality that meets or exceeds minimum standards, which depends entirely on what the thing is.

If my plastic credit card was made with petroleum imported from Saudi Arabia, I'm not going to refuse to use the credit card. In fact, my "care-o-meter" level of the country of origin of that plastic is at 1, only because there is no 0 on the care-o-meter.

If your car was made completely 100% in the USA, but all the machinery in the manufacturer's shop that is used to make the car was made in another country, would you care? No, scratch that. DO you even know what country the screws on the paint machine were made in? No, no you don't. You have no idea where those drills and paint machines and tire-pressure-gauges and whatever else is used to make a car, came from. Nor do you care.

And have you been into a Tesla plant lately, to make sure that all the employees were "made in America?" How many of them were "imported" and are citizens here, but born somewhere else? Have you checked? Have you cared enough to even wonder? Of course you haven't.

So - your "care" of the country of origin is noted. And insignificant.

But. Will you care when robots eliminates cashiers jobs? Well, not now right?

[Topspinmo]

I kind of like Meiomi's Pinot Noir. California, semi-sweet red. Very fruity. Other than Manschewitz Concord Grape, New York vineyards, I don't really like wine at all.

I like my rum Puerto Rican (which is to say, American).

I like my chocolate liqueur imported from Italy (Meletti is the brand).

Most bananas sold in the USA (including those sold in Florida supermarkets) are grown in Guatemala, Ecuador, Costa Rica, Columbia, and Honduras.

EVEN THOUGH Florida is one of the top 2 banana growers in the USA.

Florida does not value "home grown" at all; even during the season, orange prices are no better here than they are back home in New England and even though tomato plants can thrive for most of the year, most of the tomatoes you get at the supermarket are from somewhere other than Florida.

For all the talk of "Made in America" there are just way too many people who make a lot of noise - but don't walk the talk.


Most of Florida oranges comes from California due to orange tree plague last 20 years.

[Topspinmo]

weathertec car floor mats are made in the US not sure about the material that use to make where that comes from.


Crude oil.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Well, my take is that we have prayed at the god of money for many decades. We raised our children to dream of getting rich and retiring early. EVERYTHING in this country is about making a fast buck. Bill Maher had a good "New Rules" last week pointing out how it is almost impossible to get any big projects done in this country because everyone wants to make some "under the table".

A lot of people blame outsourcing, but the fact is American's are addicted to cheap. Wall Street demands companies make quarterly goals that are set by money managers who have never worked for a living. Let a company miss money managers projections and the company's stock will tank. Not because the company did something wrong, BUt, because what they did right was not what the money manager wanted them to do.

Personally, I think most of our country's "issues" at this moment all have a root cause of making fast easy money no matter what the cost to our country.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I kind of like Meiomi's Pinot Noir. California, semi-sweet red. Very fruity. Other than Manschewitz Concord Grape, New York vineyards, I don't really like wine at all.

I like my rum Puerto Rican (which is to say, American).

I like my chocolate liqueur imported from Italy (Meletti is the brand).

Most bananas sold in the USA (including those sold in Florida supermarkets) are grown in Guatemala, Ecuador, Costa Rica, Columbia, and Honduras.

EVEN THOUGH Florida is one of the top 2 banana growers in the USA.

Florida does not value "home grown" at all; even during the season, orange prices are no better here than they are back home in New England and even though tomato plants can thrive for most of the year, most of the tomatoes you get at the supermarket are from somewhere other than Florida.

For all the talk of "Made in America" there are just way too many people who make a lot of noise - but don't walk the talk.

Yup, true. And with intercontinental commerce on the rise, we can not compete. We need to rethink what we do and how we do it. I personally think Elon Musk is showing us the way. His competitors around the globe (space, cars, etc) are trying to figure out how to catch up, and lots of negative misinformation is spread about him and his companies because they can't compete with the truth. He does crazy sh!t and does it faster and better than anyone. He is not motivated at getting rich, all his profits go into his pet project (SpaceX to Mars Colony). He wants to make things better for others.

A long time ago, people worked hard, saved, and tried to make a better life for their kids. It seems that is no longer a trendy thing to do. Today is "I got mine, screw you".

[Billy1]

Americans should be willing to pay what ever price American manufacturers want to charge, patriotism.

[rlcooper70]

You are now seeing that manufacturing is moving back to the US in some fields .. automation makes it cheap enough anywhere. And we have seen supply chain disruptions get the attention of our leaders finally. Intel is building a $30 billion manufacturing plant for high end chips because we are worried China will take over Taiwan where all the high end chips are made. You will see changes over the next few years and globalization and monopolization is being questioned.

[tvbound]

Well, my take is that we have prayed at the god of money for many decades. We raised our children to dream of getting rich and retiring early. EVERYTHING in this country is about making a fast buck. Bill Maher had a good "New Rules" last week pointing out how it is almost impossible to get any big projects done in this country because everyone wants to make some "under the table".

A lot of people blame outsourcing, but the fact is American's are addicted to cheap. Wall Street demands companies make quarterly goals that are set by money managers who have never worked for a living. Let a company miss money managers projections and the company's stock will tank. Not because the company did something wrong, BUt, because what they did right was not what the money manager wanted them to do.

Personally, I think most of our country's "issues" at this moment all have a root cause of making fast easy money no matter what the cost to our country.


"the fact is American's are addicted to cheap."


Therein lies the crux of the problem, of trying to buy American.

We're fortunate to be able to afford the 'almost always' higher prices, but all too many fellow citizens (e.g.- working poor)- aren't so lucky.

[Arctic Fox]

Will you care when robots eliminates cashiers jobs? Well, not now right?

As rlcooper70 says, robots are doing more and more factory jobs so, with labor costs being the biggest reason why US products tend to cost more than those made overseas, you will soon be able to Buy American AND have fewer Americans employed in manufacturing.

[banjobob]

Long live Walmart “the China merchant “

[Nick B]

Do we make anything in America anymore? Seems like everything is made in other countries.
Just noticed that? It's been that way for 30 years.

[rpcurt]

Do we make anything in America anymore? Seems like everything is made in other countries.
Boeing is the largest US manufacturing exporter. We also, thanks to Pres Trump, have become the world's largest producer of oil and gas, which we export.
True, we lost hundreds of manufacturers during the Obama years...recall Obama saying 'manufacturing will never return to the US'.
Intellectual property is a huge product for the US.
But here is a crazy example: golf balls. COSTCO makes its Kirkland golf balls in China. Why? Making golf balls is not a labor-intensive process, but somehow it makes economic sense for COSTCO to make them in China and pay to ship them to the US. The raw materials cost the same in US, manufacturing machines cost the same, labor costs are low.
So what is different? Taxes, regulations (like OSHA, etc.), ease of doing business.

[Larchap49]

Do we make anything in America anymore? Seems like everything is made in other countries.

It's only going to get worse. I'm not going to say why because surely it would be flagged as political.

[Larchap49]

"Made in America" purchases will only come back in vogue, when people are willing to pay more (often a LOT more) for essentially the same products. It's simply common sense, that if you're paying employees more - then the cost of the goods or services will most likely be more. In essence, we have only ourselves to blame for the amount of foreign made services/goods, when we prioritize price. The ultimate irony being, that those foreign countries making so many of our products are simply trying to follow the old American model - of creating a burgeoning middle class/strong economy.

There is a much clearer explanation than just pay rates but if details were put here it would be flagged political so NO COMMENT

[NoMo50]

COSTCO makes its Kirkland golf balls in China.

While your overall point has merit, some clarification is in order: Costco doesn't "make" anything. They have manufacturing/licensing agreements with hundreds of manufacturers, and then put the Kirkland brand name on the product. Most of the Kirkland brand products are made by well known manufacturers, many of which are in the USA. Those Kirkland AA and AAA batteries you see at Costco at great prices are actually made by Duracell. The Kirkland golf balls are (or at least were) made by Callaway (Costco has a long relationship with Callaway). In fact, roughly 90% of premium golf balls are made in the USA...in 3 states (Massachusetts, Georgia and South Carolina).

[Larchap49]

I am anti-isolationist. So I don't really care which country makes a thing, or which country makes a part of a thing that was used to make a thing. I care if it's a) something I actually want, b) affordable compared to similar things, c) readily available, d) of a measure of quality that meets or exceeds minimum standards, which depends entirely on what the thing is.

If my plastic credit card was made with petroleum imported from Saudi Arabia, I'm not going to refuse to use the credit card. In fact, my "care-o-meter" level of the country of origin of that plastic is at 1, only because there is no 0 on the care-o-meter.

If your car was made completely 100% in the USA, but all the machinery in the manufacturer's shop that is used to make the car was made in another country, would you care? No, scratch that. DO you even know what country the screws on the paint machine were made in? No, no you don't. You have no idea where those drills and paint machines and tire-pressure-gauges and whatever else is used to make a car, came from. Nor do you care.

And have you been into a Tesla plant lately, to make sure that all the employees were "made in America?" How many of them were "imported" and are citizens here, but born somewhere else? Have you checked? Have you cared enough to even wonder? Of course you haven't.

So - your "care" of the country of origin is noted. And insignificant.

And that is why we are where we are, because you are certainly a part of the majority. Sad but true

[Larchap49]

The USA is the World's third largest exporter - a fact often missed when we concentrate just on foreign-produced stuff that we buy.

It is also a net exporter of food (importing less than 15% of what we consume).

Yes but the trade agreements are exceptionally lopsided

[Villages Kahuna]

We do a great job of producing disagreement among and between ourselves.

[Girlcopper]

FYI, a lot of clothing is labeled as "Made in USA" in violation of the FTC rules. If the clothing fabric was imported, which most of it is, the clothing should be labeled "Made in USA with imported fabric".
Serious? How about made in America with imported fabric from special cotton planted in special soil that flew here on a foreign based plane. Otherwise, who cares where the fabric is from. The product is made in the USA. Cant have everything

[Williewh]

LMAO but so right

[Luggage]

Macro economics. Money goes where it is most efficiently used . Consumers look at price first . Don't you buy the cheapest gasoline. Did you buy the most expensive home even though others were less? When you shop for food do you compare prices? Many consumer goods are not made in America, many industrial items are like tractors, but even those companies understand you need today to spread factories to their buyers . I could go on , but it then becomes a book

[Luggage]

P.s. we make a huge quantity of entertainment here in USA ( movies and music) that is sold worldwide!!!!

[retiredguy123]

Serious? How about made in America with imported fabric from special cotton planted in special soil that flew here on a foreign based plane. Otherwise, who cares where the fabric is from. The product is made in the USA. Cant have everything
Tell that to the Federal Trade Commission. It's their rule, and they can fine companies who violate it. But, some companies do try to make money using false USA advertising. I have seen some cloth masks online for $25 and labeled "Made in USA". I think that less than 3 percent of the clothing fabric sold is actually made in America.

[jdulej]

Boeing is the largest US manufacturing exporter. We also, thanks to Pres Trump, have become the world's largest producer of oil and gas, which we export.
True, we lost hundreds of manufacturers during the Obama years...recall Obama saying 'manufacturing will never return to the US'.
Intellectual property is a huge product for the US.
But here is a crazy example: golf balls. COSTCO makes its Kirkland golf balls in China. Why? Making golf balls is not a labor-intensive process, but somehow it makes economic sense for COSTCO to make them in China and pay to ship them to the US. The raw materials cost the same in US, manufacturing machines cost the same, labor costs are low.
So what is different? Taxes, regulations (like OSHA, etc.), ease of doing business.

Nice try, trying to blame the problem on Obama and Dems in general. Isn't going to fly, and hopefully most with a clear head and memory know that. The export of work to cheap labor has been going on for decades. Started by moving manufacturing from the north to the south. Then from the south to "elsewhere" not in the USA. This was called "smart business" and certainly NOT backed by most Dems and unions.
When we were living in California (great place btw, land where people are more important than low prices) we were looking to have a cabinet custom build for us. The woodworker we talked to informed us that we should get it build in North or South Caroline, where there were lite (or no) rules regulating what type of chemical finishes could be used. "They may be dead by the time they reach 60, but they use the best finishes you can find" Now that work has mostly shipped overseas. Is that bad? You decide, I know what I think.

[merrymini]

We should certainly make sure that medical products are controlled by us so another country cannot hold us hostage. Remember the antibiotics made in china to the tune of 90 percent? What if they wanted to withhold it during covid? Certain chips and other manufacturing items should not all be under the control of other countries. I try to buy American whenever possible and reasonable to do so. Let’s get back to work.

[Arctic Fox]

Yes but the trade agreements are exceptionally lopsided

but at least both sides think that

[fcgiii]

As rlcooper70 says, robots are doing more and more factory jobs so, with labor costs being the biggest reason why US products tend to cost more than those made overseas, you will soon be able to Buy American AND have fewer Americans employed in manufacturing.

Too true. Add to that the COVID keeping people home and the torrent of money flowing out of Washington there is little incentive for Americans to go to work. The pressure to raise the minimum wage adds to the pressure to replace people with automation. America has morphed from a manufacturing country to a service one. Now that too is being automated. ATMs have long since replaced bank tellers. You place your restaurant order on your phone. I see a future where the "developed" countries only jobs are in the government, nobody else works but gets the dole, and everything is made by robots and computers or overseas.

Be glad you lived in the best years of America.

[jdulej]

While your overall point has merit, some clarification is in order: Costco doesn't "make" anything. They have manufacturing/licensing agreements with hundreds of manufacturers, and then put the Kirkland brand name on the product. Most of the Kirkland brand products are made by well known manufacturers, many of which are in the USA. Those Kirkland AA and AAA batteries you see at Costco at great prices are actually made by Duracell. The Kirkland golf balls are (or at least were) made by Callaway (Costco has a long relationship with Callaway). In fact, roughly 90% of premium golf balls are made in the USA...in 3 states (Massachusetts, Georgia and South Carolina).
Good clarification. Just an aside I thought was interesting - Titlist Pro 1V balls are made here in the US. If you want to save a little and go for "last years" Pro1V, they are made in overseas.

[donfey]

"Made in America" purchases will only come back in vogue, when people are willing to pay more (often a LOT more) for essentially the same products. It's simply common sense, that if you're paying employees more - then the cost of the goods or services will most likely be more. In essence, we have only ourselves to blame for the amount of foreign made services/goods, when we prioritize price. The ultimate irony being, that those foreign countries making so many of our products are simply trying to follow the old American model - of creating a burgeoning middle class/strong economy.

Absolutely true. WE, The People, have to LOOK for American products, perhaps do a bit of research, and ask retailers to display and sell "Made in America" products.

Cost more? Of course. So the question becomes "how important is it, TO YOU?"

[rwfisher1969]

Here, Made In America Store (http://www.madeinamericastore.com)

[jdulej]

Absolutely true. WE, The People, have to LOOK for American products, perhaps do a bit of research, and ask retailers to display and sell "Made in America" products.

Cost more? Of course. So the question becomes "how important is it, TO YOU?"

A while back, I found myself in need of a new set of drill bits. Off to Home Depot, Lowes, Ace - all made in Chine. On to the internet. First hit was a company in Chicago that made the bits here in the US - but they were bought by a huge Chinese conglomerate, so scratch them off the list. Finally hit on Champion Cutting Tools. US owned company, work done in the US. I don't know where they get their steel, but I am betting they go for quality over price at least. The interesting thing is that they really were not much more than what I would have paid at Lowes or the other stores, if they stocked them - I ended up using Amazon.

[wdst1]

Do we make anything in America anymore? Seems like everything is made in other countries.
Americans are hypocrites. They say they want to buy American but when it comes down to dollars and cents, they run to Walmart to buy the cheap jeans at $30 v/s the American jeans that sell for $75+. That’s why Walmart does so well, American hypocrites.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Boeing is the largest US manufacturing exporter. We also, thanks to Pres Trump, have become the world's largest producer of oil and gas, which we export.
True, we lost hundreds of manufacturers during the Obama years...recall Obama saying 'manufacturing will never return to the US'.
Intellectual property is a huge product for the US.
But here is a crazy example: golf balls. COSTCO makes its Kirkland golf balls in China. Why? Making golf balls is not a labor-intensive process, but somehow it makes economic sense for COSTCO to make them in China and pay to ship them to the US. The raw materials cost the same in US, manufacturing machines cost the same, labor costs are low.
So what is different? Taxes, regulations (like OSHA, etc.), ease of doing business.

Sorry, Saudi Arabia exports more than double the oil compared to the US. Saying things does not make them true.

[Kenswing]

Sorry, Saudi Arabia exports more than double the oil compared to the US. Saying things does not make them true.

Didn't you stomp off in a huff a week or so ago because this place was a cesspool? I guess you felt the need to come back and do some more wallowing. :1rotfl:

[Geodyssey]

Do we make anything in America anymore? Seems like everything is made in other countries.

Costly (for some) wars are still made in the USA. It's our bread & butter.

Have you checked your portfolio lately? Military equipment stocks have made a lot of us wealthy.

[GOLFER54]

Just a quick note, recently bought Taylor Golf Clubs, a sticker was attached to one of the clubs which read,
Club head made in Vietnam
Shaft made in Taiwan
Assembled in Mexico
Can you believe this ?

[Two Bills]

Just a quick note, recently bought Taylor Golf Clubs, a sticker was attached to one of the clubs which read,
Club head made in Vietnam
Shaft made in Taiwan
Assembled in Mexico
Can you believe this ?

Who made the grips?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Didn't you stomp off in a huff a week or so ago because this place was a cesspool? I guess you felt the need to come back and do some more wallowing. :1rotfl:

Yes I did, and the administrators helped by making it a 2 week mandatory go stand in the corner.

[GrumpyOldMan]

So what is the point of this thread? American mfgrs have abandoned plants in the US because it is more profitable to make them overseas and sell them here. Seems like capitalism at work to me.

Buying something BECAUSE it was made in America as opposed to because it is the best price and quality seems dumb to me. Kind of like voting based on party instead of candidates qualifications. I am registered NPA and always vote for the person and not a party. The same goes for my purchases.

[Geodyssey]

So what is the point of this thread? American mfgrs have abandoned plants in the US because it is more profitable to make them overseas and sell them here. Seems like capitalism at work to me.

Buying something BECAUSE it was made in America as opposed to because it is the best price and quality seems dumb to me. Kind of like voting based on party instead of candidates qualifications. I am registered NPA and always vote for the person and not a party. The same goes for my purchases.

In the USA, nothing is more important than making money. Not family, not nation. Just keep making money. It's how score is kept. And we're #1.

[carhirsch]

Do we make anything in America anymore? Seems like everything is made in other countries.

Read the book Made in China. You’ll be appalled at the cost in human suffering to produce those cheap items. It’s a quandary. We want the least expensive items and often can’t find what we’re looking for that’s made in America. Still someone in China is paying a dear price producing said item.

[GrumpyOldMan]

In the USA, nothing is more important than making money. Not family, not nation. Just keep making money. It's how score is kept. And we're #1.

Sadly I agree with you…

[GrumpyOldMan]

Read the book Made in China. You’ll be appalled at the cost in human suffering to produce those cheap items. It’s a quandary. We want the least expensive items and often can’t find what we’re looking for that’s made in America. Still someone in China is paying a dear price producing said item.

I agree with you. It used to be in factories here and people got fed up and demanded change. The same ids happening in China now.

[Westie Man]

there were four factory workers for every government worker. 100 years later it's 1 to 1.

[GrumpyOldMan]

there were four factory workers for every government worker. 100 years later it's 1 to 1.

Interesting, I was not aware of that. Thank you

[SacDQ]

Most military spending is for made in America equipment. Other than that not very much. Not even our food staples are from the USA. Next time you grocery shop read the labels. Supporting the weekend farmers market is the best place to still find USA PRODUCE

[jbartle1]

I have the makings of a "MADE IN AMERICA FRUIT salad growing in my yard" bananas and pineapple, does that count??????

[jimjamuser]

Yes but we have become accustomed to cheap products and have become used to products that break.

Example: retractable cord reels. Those extension cords that hang high in the garage/shop ready to power any tool. Chinese made (home Depot) 79.00 to 129.00.

US made (ReelCraft brand) 349.00.

I have American made ones, it's one less item to fail. Mathematically it is foolish. The pain of buying quality is felt once. Breakdowns are felt repeatedly.
That is perfectly TRUE for many, many items. Quality tools are often worth their extra cost. Sometimes American-made tools are the best and reasonable. Craftsman tools control their design and provide some quality control over their products even while being made overseas. Same for other traditional brands. I wonder if all Harley Davidsons are made totally in the US?
IMO the Japanese brand automobiles and trucks are superior to the big US three - especially in reliability, resale value, and quality.
I would like the US government and US Chamber of Commerce to champion and reward US manufacturers more. The software and digital superiority of US businesses are GREAT. But, in the event of a war or other disaster, it would be better to be less dependant on China and other overseas countries. it would also help to control our US balance of trade and payments deficit. I know that we trade very much with Canada, but maybe EVEN MORE would be in order - because of low shipping cost and we can better depend on them.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

How many touters of American Made on this thread are posting via an American Made device?

[jimjamuser]

"Made in America" purchases will only come back in vogue, when people are willing to pay more (often a LOT more) for essentially the same products. It's simply common sense, that if you're paying employees more - then the cost of the goods or services will most likely be more. In essence, we have only ourselves to blame for the amount of foreign made services/goods, when we prioritize price. The ultimate irony being, that those foreign countries making so many of our products are simply trying to follow the old American model - of creating a burgeoning middle class/strong economy.
The more countries have middle classes, the fewer Dictatorships the world has - and therefore, a more stable world society.

[jimjamuser]

we don't even make americans in america anymore, just socialists and marxist wanna be's.. such a shame.
That is pretty negative and hard to analyze logically - since 100% of Americans can't possibly be socialists or Marxists.

[jimjamuser]

But. Will you care when robots eliminates cashiers jobs? Well, not now right?
A.I. and robotics could easily cause 30 % unemployment by 2050. So, yes there will be robotic checkouts. They basically have that now. Life changes and it is changing more rapidly every year. And it is a BIG reason for social stress today.

[Velvet]

Yes I did, and the administrators helped by making it a 2 week mandatory go stand in the corner.

And you brought back that lovely dog too.

[Nucky]

I was Made In America. I outlasted the implied warranty by far.

[jimjamuser]

Well, my take is that we have prayed at the god of money for many decades. We raised our children to dream of getting rich and retiring early. EVERYTHING in this country is about making a fast buck. Bill Maher had a good "New Rules" last week pointing out how it is almost impossible to get any big projects done in this country because everyone wants to make some "under the table".

A lot of people blame outsourcing, but the fact is American's are addicted to cheap. Wall Street demands companies make quarterly goals that are set by money managers who have never worked for a living. Let a company miss money managers projections and the company's stock will tank. Not because the company did something wrong, BUt, because what they did right was not what the money manager wanted them to do.

Personally, I think most of our country's "issues" at this moment all have a root cause of making fast easy money no matter what the cost to our country.
True that! And WALL ST. and corporate managers tend to have a ONE quarter time-horizons on their decisions. Japan and some European countries have business leaders the have 5-year plans. Japan uses a "Circle of Management" philosophy that they got from a book written (probably 1950) in the US, but was ignored. It means that upper management MUST pay attention to the lowest line workers because they are close to the action and therefore, the most knowledgeable.
That RARELY happens in the US, which adopted a top-down approach like the US military after its success in WW2. Last time I checked Japanese CEOs were considered GREEDY if they made more than 10 to 15 times more than their average line workers. Compare that to US CEOs. And then, even realize that it is the reason why the average person does NOT even realize how and why the whole US wealth gap problem has developed. And why it may be impossible to reverse!

[chuggmeister]

Example?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

But. Will you care when robots eliminates cashiers jobs? Well, not now right?

So here's what happens when the self-service cash registers came:

1. You need an entire manufacturer to make those machines, from the coder of the program, to the frame the machine sits in, the trucks that deliver the machines. So that's a lot of new employees. Global, yes. Some in America, some in other countries. It's a global project.

2. You need a sales force to convince stores to use them. That's definitely American employees, there.

3. You need people who are trained in repairing these machines, that never existed before. So you'll need to hire a contractor, which means more new employees. Definitely American, they won't be flying in from Japan to fix the register at the Winn Dixie.

4. You need AT LEAST one dedicated employee in the store, every shift that the store is open to the public, available to help Mrs. Smith who thought she was supposed to stuff all the coupons in the slot at the same time, and now she isn't getting her discounts and the machine won't let her leave til she deposits one coupon at a time so the machine can count the quantity of coupons and compare it to the quantity of coupons scanned. And to change the receipt tape when it runs low. And to show Mr. Jones how to turn up the volume of the fake machine lady who recites the price of what he just bought. And bag the groceries for Miss Hines, who always demands that people help her in the self-serve aisle and refuses to just go to the normal cashiers.

and so on, and so forth.

Yes, that store might need to not hire a couple of people once a couple existing employees retire. But the cash register industry has hired thousands of people who might otherwise have been unemployed. And again - this is a global effort, so yes there are new American employees, and new Chinese employees, new German employees, some in India, maybe the material for the rubber gaskets came from Thailand or Indonesia, thus requiring more rubber-tree-processors there.

[jdulej]

True that! And WALL ST. and corporate managers tend to have a ONE quarter time-horizons on their decisions. Japan and some European countries have business leaders the have 5-year plans. Japan uses a "Circle of Management" philosophy that they got from a book written (probably 1950) in the US, but was ignored. It means that upper management MUST pay attention to the lowest line workers because they are close to the action and therefore, the most knowledgeable.
That RARELY happens in the US, which adopted a top-down approach like the US military after its success in WW2. Last time I checked Japanese CEOs were considered GREEDY if they made more than 10 to 15 times more than their average line workers. Compare that to US CEOs. And then, even realize that it is the reason why the average person does NOT even realize how and why the whole US wealth gap problem has developed. And why it may be impossible to reverse!

I have always been amazed and confused by the reaction "normal" people have to any proposal to somehow make the 1% (really more like the .1%) pay their fair share. After all, they have the most to lose and get the most benefit from the government. Who wields the most power over congress and the pres - you and me or Jeff Bezos, the Kardashians, etc?
As an example - when AOC (yes, that AOC) suggested adding an additional tax bracket that kicked in only AFTER income passed $50,000,000 for a year (fifty million) you would have thought the world was ending. We have 7 brackets thanks to the Ryan/Trump tax give away, why does adding one more mean the end of America?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Americans should be willing to pay what ever price American manufacturers want to charge, patriotism.

You should be willing to pay everyone a wage that allows them to afford to pay whatever price American manufacturers want to charge.

[jdulej]

You should be willing to pay everyone a wage that allows them to afford to pay whatever price American manufacturers want to charge.

Agree!

[jimjamuser]

Yup, true. And with intercontinental commerce on the rise, we can not compete. We need to rethink what we do and how we do it. I personally think Elon Musk is showing us the way. His competitors around the globe (space, cars, etc) are trying to figure out how to catch up, and lots of negative misinformation is spread about him and his companies because they can't compete with the truth. He does crazy sh!t and does it faster and better than anyone. He is not motivated at getting rich, all his profits go into his pet project (SpaceX to Mars Colony). He wants to make things better for others.

A long time ago, people worked hard, saved, and tried to make a better life for their kids. It seems that is no longer a trendy thing to do. Today is "I got mine, screw you".
It is not a matter of people NOT being willing to work. They have just had their ambition to better the next generation beaten out of them. The ladders for upward mobility have been burned up by things like systemic elimination of Unions, the artificial difficulty for some groups to become homeowners, constant competition from legal and illegal immigrants and a "greed is good" mantra instead of a "teamwork and a rising tide lifts ALL boats approach. There are MANY other reasons like, what are all the lobbyists REALLY contributing to society? Maybe they need to be boiled in oil? (Just joking!)
How about limiting the size of farms and ranches? How about turning the clock of tax policy back to the 1950s that people today agree were superior in many ways Sociologically (not Scientifically).
Made in America was a big part of the healthy attitudes and social equality enjoyed by Americans in the 1950s. Also, foreign countries had not YET infected Americans with LETHAL drugs like beginning in the (about) the 1980s and continuing and getting worse today.

[jimjamuser]

You are now seeing that manufacturing is moving back to the US in some fields .. automation makes it cheap enough anywhere. And we have seen supply chain disruptions get the attention of our leaders finally. Intel is building a $30 billion manufacturing plant for high end chips because we are worried China will take over Taiwan where all the high end chips are made. You will see changes over the next few years and globalization and monopolization is being questioned.
An excellent post! Very informative!

[jimjamuser]

Boeing is the largest US manufacturing exporter. We also, thanks to Pres Trump, have become the world's largest producer of oil and gas, which we export.
True, we lost hundreds of manufacturers during the Obama years...recall Obama saying 'manufacturing will never return to the US'.
Intellectual property is a huge product for the US.
But here is a crazy example: golf balls. COSTCO makes its Kirkland golf balls in China. Why? Making golf balls is not a labor-intensive process, but somehow it makes economic sense for COSTCO to make them in China and pay to ship them to the US. The raw materials cost the same in US, manufacturing machines cost the same, labor costs are low.
So what is different? Taxes, regulations (like OSHA, etc.), ease of doing business.
I disagree with the content of that post.

[jdulej]

I disagree with the content of that post.

I agree with your disagreement. I wrote a rebuttal to the post, but it apparently did not get posted or was deleted. Bottom line - moving jobs to the lowest paying, least restrictive place has been going on for at least 50 years and was considered "smart business practice" until it wasn't all of a sudden. I think Obama was trying to be realistic, and despite some feeble attempts to change it, it remains true that manufacturing, for the most part, is NOT coming back. Hi skilled, specialized work - yes and that is good. The put A into B stuff is gone forever IMO.

[jimjamuser]

Macro economics. Money goes where it is most efficiently used . Consumers look at price first . Don't you buy the cheapest gasoline. Did you buy the most expensive home even though others were less? When you shop for food do you compare prices? Many consumer goods are not made in America, many industrial items are like tractors, but even those companies understand you need today to spread factories to their buyers . I could go on , but it then becomes a book
I look for brands 1st and price 2nd. For example, when I buy a new car (once every 15 years) I look at Toyota, Nissan, and Honda. I don't even look at the price of a Chevy or Chrysler. Ford has some quality recently, but not enough for me yet. I would prefer to buy American, but in new cars and trucks, the quality difference is too large For tools, I prefer Craftsman and Kobalt. I would decide between them individually and look at the price. I do NOT need the best top-quality professional-grade tools.
So, in general, I lean Ameican, but take in ALL qualities, including price.

[jimjamuser]

So what is the point of this thread? American mfgrs have abandoned plants in the US because it is more profitable to make them overseas and sell them here. Seems like capitalism at work to me.

Buying something BECAUSE it was made in America as opposed to because it is the best price and quality seems dumb to me. Kind of like voting based on party instead of candidates qualifications. I am registered NPA and always vote for the person and not a party. The same goes for my purchases.
There is something that I always prefer to buy American and even LOCALLY American and that is, any local produce because it tastes better and has more vitamins and nutrients in it than produce from further away. And less wasted oil to support Saudi Arabia. I also like to support the small farmer rather than the big farmer or rancher. Big farms are usually using excessive fertilizer instead of rotating crops and wasting more water, fuel oil. and other resources than small farms. Small farms benefit larger numbers of families than big farms and ranches. In Ca. large pecan farms EVEN get greater priority for WATER than people. That IS some seriously inverted priorities. And that shows the problems caused by the POWER of big farms and their lobbyists.

[jimjamuser]

In the USA, nothing is more important than making money. Not family, not nation. Just keep making money. It's how score is kept. And we're #1.
Not necessarily #1. Switzerland has greater income and wealth per person. And Many, many countries have a greater "quality of Life" than the US! We rank around 25th.

[jimjamuser]

Most military spending is for made in America equipment. Other than that not very much. Not even our food staples are from the USA. Next time you grocery shop read the labels. Supporting the weekend farmers market is the best place to still find USA PRODUCE
Yes, good post!

[blueash]

We should certainly make sure that medical products are controlled by us so another country cannot hold us hostage. Remember the antibiotics made in china to the tune of 90 percent? What if they wanted to withhold it during covid? Certain chips and other manufacturing items should not all be under the control of other countries. I try to buy American whenever possible and reasonable to do so. Let’s get back to work.

You, or someone else, have made this statement before, never with a link to assess the truth of the claim. So I'll simply say that you are wrong. And if you actually care about the truth you can use Google to find real data.

It is true that there are legitimate concerns about drug supply chains but making up a statistic is not a legitimate way to make a point.

[JMintzer]

Yes I did, and the administrators helped by making it a 2 week mandatory go stand in the corner.

Only 2 weeks? Piker! :a040::a040::a040:

[GrumpyOldMan]

Yes, good post!

In the case of food, local grown is better in many ways.

For one, things like "Fresh Apples" are typically harvested and warehoused for up to 6 to 9 months. They are then almost completely lacking in the nutrients they had when harvested.

Shipping food in from literally 10's of thousands of miles takes time and they have to be harvest early to not ripen before they hit the stores.

If is can be grown locally, it should be.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Only 2 weeks? Piker! :a040::a040::a040:

:MOJE_whot:

[jimjamuser]

In the case of food, local grown is better in many ways.

For one, things like "Fresh Apples" are typically harvested and warehoused for up to 6 to 9 months. They are then almost completely lacking in the nutrients they had when harvested.

Shipping food in from literally 10's of thousands of miles takes time and they have to be harvest early to not ripen before they hit the stores.

If is can be grown locally, it should be.
Yes, good information.......and I would like to add that the red delicious variety of apple for SOME (?) reason is practically DEVOID of any vitamins and minerals. And it is not even DELICIOUS ! It tastes like wet cardboard to me. I ALWAYS, always buy the Granny Smith variety of apple. It has been laboratory tested to be the most nutritious of the commonly available apple variety. It does taste sour, but better than wet cardboard. The red delicious variety was the only apple available in the early years of supermarkets (like about 1950 where I lived). It was chosen (like a lot of foods) not for its food value, but because it could be shipped from great distances and not bruise. It also was attractive looking, but DEVOID of taste and nutrition. So, America.........change your ways and live the better, healthy life.......EMBRACE the Granny!!!!!!!

[JMintzer]

I have always been amazed and confused by the reaction "normal" people have to any proposal to somehow make the 1% (really more like the .1%) pay their fair share. After all, they have the most to lose and get the most benefit from the government. Who wields the most power over congress and the pres - you and me or Jeff Bezos, the Kardashians, etc?
As an example - when AOC (yes, that AOC) suggested adding an additional tax bracket that kicked in only AFTER income passed $50,000,000 for a year (fifty million) you would have thought the world was ending. We have 7 brackets thanks to the Ryan/Trump tax give away, why does adding one more mean the end of America?

Tax give away?

The government doesn't GIVE you anything. They take from you...

[JMintzer]

You should be willing to pay everyone a wage that allows them to afford to pay whatever price American manufacturers want to charge.

For every job?

[JMintzer]

It is not a matter of people NOT being willing to work. They have just had their ambition to better the next generation beaten out of them. The ladders for upward mobility have been burned up by things like systemic elimination of Unions, the artificial difficulty for some groups to become homeowners, constant competition from legal and illegal immigrants and a "greed is good" mantra instead of a "teamwork and a rising tide lifts ALL boats approach. There are MANY other reasons like, what are all the lobbyists REALLY contributing to society? Maybe they need to be boiled in oil? (Just joking!)
How about limiting the size of farms and ranches? How about turning the clock of tax policy back to the 1950s that people today agree were superior in many ways Sociologically (not Scientifically).
Made in America was a big part of the healthy attitudes and social equality enjoyed by Americans in the 1950s. Also, foreign countries had not YET infected Americans with LETHAL drugs like beginning in the (about) the 1980s and continuing and getting worse today.

THE 50'S?

You mean when agriculture was LESS efficient?

When tax policies allowed the 1% to pay LESS that they are now?

Be careful what you wish for...

[JMintzer]

I disagree with the content of that post.

Yet you offer no rebuttal... How odd...

[JMintzer]

There is something that I always prefer to buy American and even LOCALLY American and that is, any local produce because it tastes better and has more vitamins and nutrients in it than produce from further away. And less wasted oil to support Saudi Arabia. I also like to support the small farmer rather than the big farmer or rancher. Big farms are usually using excessive fertilizer instead of rotating crops and wasting more water, fuel oil. and other resources than small farms. Small farms benefit larger numbers of families than big farms and ranches. In Ca. large pecan farms EVEN get greater priority for WATER than people. That IS some seriously inverted priorities. And that shows the problems caused by the POWER of big farms and their lobbyists.

More and more of your preferred Craftsman tools are being made in China and other parts of Asia...

[JMintzer]

Not necessarily #1. Switzerland has greater income and wealth per person. And Many, many countries have a greater "quality of Life" than the US! We rank around 25th.

Who is doing this "ranking"?

[jimjamuser]

THE 50'S?

You mean when agriculture was LESS efficient?

When tax policies allowed the 1% to pay LESS that they are now?

Be careful what you wish for...
AS I recall from 8th-grade math, 0% is less than 1%. Amazon has paid 0% TAX in several recent years! And over the last 40 years, men controlled by lobbyists have caused America to have the HIGHEST WEALTH DISPARITY of ALL the free Western countries in the WORLD. That IS one #1 distinction that NO ONE in these United States should or WILL go around BRAGGING ABOUT!!!!!!!! Thank me very much!

[jimjamuser]

More and more of your preferred Craftsman tools are being made in China and other parts of Asia...
I actually agree with that fact and its implied conclusion. I want to bring back more manufacturing to the US. I would NEVER have let it leave if I were the decider. US Robotics when fully implemented WILL allow the US to free itself from Chinese, Vietnamese, and Mexican tyranny by manufacturing - because of cost equalization with those other countries. Congratulation - we agree!!!!!

[retiredguy123]

In the case of food, local grown is better in many ways.

For one, things like "Fresh Apples" are typically harvested and warehoused for up to 6 to 9 months. They are then almost completely lacking in the nutrients they had when harvested.

Shipping food in from literally 10's of thousands of miles takes time and they have to be harvest early to not ripen before they hit the stores.

If is can be grown locally, it should be.
What about those Balance of Nature capsules? Do they have any nutrients?

[JMintzer]

AS I recall from 8th-grade math, 0% is less than 1%. Amazon has paid 0% TAX in several recent years! And over the last 40 years, men controlled by lobbyists have caused America to have the HIGHEST WEALTH DISPARITY of ALL the free Western countries in the WORLD. That IS one #1 distinction that NO ONE in these United States should or WILL go around BRAGGING ABOUT!!!!!!!! Thank me very much!

Corporations shouldn't have to pay ANY taxes...

The taxes should be paid on the end user. Either their employees, investors/shareholders (when they reap dividends), etc...

Otherwise they are being taxed twice...

Putting things in ALL CAPS doesn't make it any more true, nor correct...

[JMintzer]

I actually agree with that fact and its implied conclusion. I want to bring back more manufacturing to the US. I would NEVER have let it leave if I were the decider. US Robotics when fully implemented WILL allow the US to free itself from Chinese, Vietnamese, and Mexican tyranny by manufacturing - because of cost equalization with those other countries. Congratulation - we agree!!!!!

How would you have stopped it?

And are you aware why it left in the first place?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Corporations shouldn't have to pay ANY taxes...

The taxes should be paid on the end user. Either their employees, investors/shareholders (when they reap dividends), etc...

Otherwise they are being taxed twice...

Putting things in ALL CAPS doesn't make it any more true, nor correct...

Well, should our shouldn't there is the law. The 34,000 pages of Federal Tax code is crafted to ensure they do not.

How to correct that is complicated and isn't going to happen as long as our corporate citizens are allow to vote with their money. The issue with that is the disparage between the voice regular citizens have (amount of money they can spend) compared to any one large corporation. We have been basically disenfranchised by proxy.

BTW, I agree completely, companies should not pay "income tax", it simply gets passed along to the eventual consumer. However, I can assure you if we repeal all corporate tax they will not pass a cent of that along to the consumer - sort of damned if you do and damned if you don't.

We need a complete tax overhaul, and that is not going to happen in this world of cooperation and friendly government.

[GrumpyOldMan]

How would you have stopped it?

And are you aware why it left in the first place?

I hear a stern finger waging might have gotten them to set aside profits because of public embarrassment. NOT.

[jdulej]

Tax give away?

The government doesn't GIVE you anything. They take from you...

You are correct, it does not give me anything. It gave the highest tax brackers (if that's a word) a nice, hefty lowering of their tax liability. If your rate goes down, that's a give back from what it would have been if nothing was done.

[jimjamuser]

Corporations shouldn't have to pay ANY taxes...

The taxes should be paid on the end user. Either their employees, investors/shareholders (when they reap dividends), etc...

Otherwise they are being taxed twice...

Putting things in ALL CAPS doesn't make it any more true, nor correct...
Please, pardon me, I just became sick to my stomach!

[JMintzer]

Well, should our shouldn't there is the law. The 34,000 pages of Federal Tax code is crafted to ensure they do not.

Except they DO pay taxes. I pay Corporate taxes each and every year. I try to minimize that amount, but I've never paid nothing...

How to correct that is complicated and isn't going to happen as long as our corporate citizens are allow to vote with their money. The issue with that is the disparage between the voice regular citizens have (amount of money they can spend) compared to any one large corporation. We have been basically disenfranchised by proxy.

BTW, I agree completely, companies should not pay "income tax", it simply gets passed along to the eventual consumer. However, I can assure you if we repeal all corporate tax they will not pass a cent of that along to the consumer - sort of damned if you do and damned if you don't.

We need a complete tax overhaul, and that is not going to happen in this world of cooperation and friendly government.

And that money will be taxed as income to the shareholders...

And yes, the tax code needs to be revamped... Many have run on that platform. None have been elected...

[JMintzer]

Please, pardon me, I just became sick to my stomach!

The truth can be a bitter pill...

[JMintzer]

You are correct, it does not give me anything. It gave the highest tax brackers (if that's a word) a nice, hefty lowering of their tax liability. If your rate goes down, that's a give back from what it would have been if nothing was done.

LOL! No, it gave the people who actually paid taxes a lowering of their tax liability.

If you were in a bracket that paid zero FEDERAL income taxes, how exactly could your taxes be lowered below zero?

And the fact that you saw the previous changes as a "gift" speaks volumes...

[JMintzer]

I hear a stern finger waging might have gotten them to set aside profits because of public embarrassment. NOT.

I notice you ignored my question as to why businesses left in the first place...

[jimjamuser]

You are correct, it does not give me anything. It gave the highest tax brackers (if that's a word) a nice, hefty lowering of their tax liability. If your rate goes down, that's a give back from what it would have been if nothing was done.
The Federal Government gives you and I protection from being invaded by Russia. It gives all people access to Interstate highways instead of each State and city charging a turnpike fee. It pools money together to provide research at Universities, which created the Polio Vaccine and the space program, which everyone bragged about in the1960s. And lead to velcro. It provides a court system to adjudicate problems too big for any one state. Basically, the list is endless.

[JMintzer]

The Federal Government gives you and I protection from being invaded by Russia. It gives all people access to Interstate highways instead of each State and city charging a turnpike fee. It pools money together to provide research at Universities, which created the Polio Vaccine and the space program, which everyone bragged about in the1960s. And lead to velcro. It provides a court system to adjudicate problems too big for any one state. Basically, the list is endless.

Oh, FFS!

You know I wasn't talking about those things...

Here is the EXACT comment I made...

Tax give away?

The government doesn't GIVE you anything. They take from you...

TAX GIVE AWAYS. We were talking about TAXES

But, once again, you deflect...

[jimjamuser]

Oh, FFS!

You know I wasn't talking about those things...

Here is the EXACT comment I made...



TAX GIVE AWAYS. We were talking about TAXES

But, once again, you deflect...
Government 101 - in order for government to group together the funds needed to start and finish BIG projects that can NOT be handled by small neighborhoods or clubs or other SMALL entities - these funds MUST come from taxes paid into government by LARGE numbers of taxpayers. Tax revenue in ........becomes costs out to fund LARGE PROJECTS!

[GrumpyOldMan]

Except they DO pay taxes. I pay Corporate taxes each and every year. I try to minimize that amount, but I've never paid nothing...

Yes, but, living in TV, I expect you are not a multi-billion dollar public company. So, yes, MOST corporations/companies pay taxes, but their taxes are a drop in the bucket compared to what the big boyees would be paying... without the big money advantages...

[jdulej]

LOL! No, it gave the people who actually paid taxes a lowering of their tax liability.

If you were in a bracket that paid zero FEDERAL income taxes, how exactly could your taxes be lowered below zero?

And the fact that you saw the previous changes as a "gift" speaks volumes...

It amazes me how people defend the 1% and look down on the poorest 20% as do nothing low-life. Where else do the richest get away with just about anything (maybe Russia). Occasionally, one of them really screws up (Jeffery Epstein come to mind) and is dumb enough to get caught. Otherwise, they are free to make an endless pile of money, hide behind their corporate walls and complain if asked to pay a little closer to their fair share. The people who benefit the most and have the most to lose should pay the most. That is the spirit behind progressive taxation (which is what we currently have with the Ryan/Trump tax plan is)

[JMintzer]

Government 101 - in order for government to group together the funds needed to start and finish BIG projects that can NOT be handled by small neighborhoods or clubs or other SMALL entities - these funds MUST come from taxes paid into government by LARGE numbers of taxpayers. Tax revenue in ........becomes costs out to fund LARGE PROJECTS!

Again, you continue to change the subject because you cannot make an argument against what I stated...

[JMintzer]

Yes, but, living in TV, I expect you are not a multi-billion dollar public company. So, yes, MOST corporations/companies pay taxes, but their taxes are a drop in the bucket compared to what the big boyees would be paying... without the big money advantages...

The US Corporate tax rate WAS one of, if not THE highest in the world...

That is why so many companies went overseas...

(I guess I had to answer that for you...)

And do you know WHY certain companies can often pay no taxes?

[JMintzer]

It amazes me how people defend the 1% and look down on the poorest 20% as do nothing low-life. Where else do the richest get away with just about anything (maybe Russia). Occasionally, one of them really screws up (Jeffery Epstein come to mind) and is dumb enough to get caught. Otherwise, they are free to make an endless pile of money, hide behind their corporate walls and complain if asked to pay a little closer to their fair share. The people who benefit the most and have the most to lose should pay the most. That is the spirit behind progressive taxation (which is what we currently have with the Ryan/Trump tax plan is)

It amazes me how you could take what I posted and infer that I actually "look down on the poorest 20% as do nothing low-life."

Project much?

And Jeffery Epstein has ZERO to do with the conversation at hand... He was a pedophile and a sex trafficker...

And the people who "benefit the most"? Benefit in what way?

[jdulej]

It amazes me how you could take what I posted and infer that I actually "look down on the poorest 20% as do nothing low-life."

Project much?

And Jeffery Epstein has ZERO to do with the conversation at hand... He was a pedophile and a sex trafficker...

And the people who "benefit the most"? Benefit in what way?

Jeffery Epstein, Bill Gates, Donald You-Know-Who are just examples of how it is the richest who benefit the most from our government. They have bought their way into an environment custom made to allow them to operate unchecked unless they really cross the line, and then get caught. Does not happen much. They should at least toss some spare change into the tax coffers.
I did not mean to imply that you, personally, look up or down at anything or anyone. I do think the middle class in general look down on the poorest more than they look down on the richest.

[JMintzer]

Jeffery Epstein, Bill Gates, Donald You-Know-Who and just examples of how it is the richest who benefit the most from our government. They have bought their way into an environment custom made to allow them to operate unchecked unless they really cross the line, and then get caught. Does not happen much. They should at least toss some spare change into the tax coffers.
I did not mean to imply that you, personally, look up or down at anything or anyone. I do think the middle class in general look down on the poorest more than they look down on the richest.

Nice backpedal...

[YankeesFan]

Do we make anything in America anymore? Seems like everything is made in other countries.

There is a store up north where everything, down to the bolt, has to be made In America

[GrumpyOldMan]

The US Corporate tax rate WAS one of, if not THE highest in the world...

That is why so many companies went overseas...

(I guess I had to answer that for you...)

And do you know WHY certain companies can often pay no taxes?

It is only one of the reasons, not the reason. But, yes, at some point it is advantageous.

Please, why do some companies often pay no taxes (I know, but I am interested in your take on it. I hope you won't imply they all don't for the same reason...)

[GrumpyOldMan]

The US Corporate tax rate WAS one of, if not THE highest in the world...


And the US Corporate tax rate went from 1% in 1910 to 52% in 1968. A period of massive growth in the US economy. There is little evidence that high tax rates are a disincentive to investment in America. But, I agree also that at 52% there was a lot of motivation to move the "profit" centers offshore.

[Caymus]

And the US Corporate tax rate went from 1% in 1910 to 52% in 1968. A period of massive growth in the US economy. There is little evidence that high tax rates are a disincentive to investment in America. But, I agree also that at 52% there was a lot of motivation to move the "profit" centers offshore.

WW1 and WW2 had something to do with the "massive" growth.

[JMintzer]

It is only one of the reasons, not the reason. But, yes, at some point it is advantageous.

So tell me, what are some of the other reasons?

Please, why do some companies often pay no taxes (I know, but I am interested in your take on it. I hope you won't imply they all don't for the same reason...)

Because they deduct their expenses, such is investment in machinery, R&D, etc, which may total more than their profit.

The only real change in the tax laws was that corporations could deduct those expenses when the money was spent, rather than have to do it over time...

In my case, If I bought an new piece of equipment, I had to delay the tax deductions for years...

Now, some companies are given temporary tax by the local municipalities, in order to entice them to come to their town. They know that the tax revenues now and in the future will more than make up for the initial breaks...

Well, most of them knew that... One NY Congress critter, for example, complained so much about a short term tax break for Amazon, when they wanted to build a huge corporate site in their district, providing thousands of jobs, millions in tax revenue, that they simply went elsewhere. They are now building in my neck of the woods, in Northern VA, where office rental and real estate revenues are skyrocketing, adding to the tax coffers with waaay more money than they would have gotten if Amazon never came...

But Bezos has a big boat, so...

[JMintzer]

WW1 and WW2 had something to do with the "massive" growth.

And The Viet Nam "conflict"...

And don't forget about the massive wave of LEGAL immigration, bringing in innovators and entrepreneurs...

[jdulej]

And The Viet Nam "conflict"...

And don't forget about the massive wave of LEGAL immigration, bringing in innovators and entrepreneurs...

Yes, war is usually good for business. That's why "they" cook up a phony reason to have one every few years.

[GrumpyOldMan]

WW1 and WW2 had something to do with the "massive" growth.

I didn't say the higher tax rate caused the growth, I am saying we became the worlds largest economy despite it. It did not prevent or discourage people from finding ways to make even more money.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Yes, war is usually good for business. That's why "they" cook up a phony reason to have one every few years.

Sadly, we have "been at war" for 220 of the past 240 year. America LOVES war, dispite our vocal disclaimers.

[jdulej]

Sadly, we have "been at war" for 220 of the past 240 year. America LOVES war, dispite our vocal disclaimers.

You are correct, IMO. I should have added to my comment - not only do "they" come up with phony reasons to start a war, but "we" keep falling for the same BS over and over. We all get to act all patriotic while someone else fights and dies. I was somewhat surprised to find that only about 1% of Americans actually participate in the military. Maybe we need the draft again, but no deferments (none!) and kids are drafted in order of their parents adjusted gross income - high to low.

[GrumpyOldMan]

You are correct, IMO. I should have added to my comment - not only do "they" come up with phony reasons to start a war, but "we" keep falling for the same BS over and over. We all get to act all patriotic while someone else fights and dies. I was somewhat surprised to find that only about 1% of Americans actually participate in the military. Maybe we need the draft again, but no deferments (none!) and kids are drafted in order of their parents adjusted gross income - high to low.

I am a fan of a SciFi author named Heinlein. He wrote a novel called Starship Troopers. In it, he proposed that there should be two levels of citizenship - "citizen" and "resident". Citizens have all rights and can vote. Residents get to live as second class citizens, can't vote, etc. In order to become a citizen you had to serve a tour in the military. In addition, carrying hand guns was mandatory - for citizens, and anyone could challenge anyone to a duel, refusing to accept the challenge would result in the loss of your citizenship status. (Of course accepting the duel usually resulted in one of the two losing it - LOL).

Anyway. It was interesting to read how he felt those laws would affect society. I dis agree with him, but he did propose it would lead to a much more polite society, since insulting someone could lead to a duel.

[tvbound]

I am a fan of a SciFi author named Heinlein. He wrote a novel called Starship Troopers. In it, he proposed that there should be two levels of citizenship - "citizen" and "resident". Citizens have all rights and can vote. Residents get to live as second class citizens, can't vote, etc. In order to become a citizen you had to serve a tour in the military. In addition, carrying hand guns was mandatory - for citizens, and anyone could challenge anyone to a duel, refusing to accept the challenge would result in the loss of your citizenship status. (Of course accepting the duel usually resulted in one of the two losing it - LOL).

Anyway. It was interesting to read how he felt those laws would affect society. I dis agree with him, but he did propose it would lead to a much more polite society, since insulting someone could lead to a duel.

"Starship Troopers"


"Bugs! Bugs! We've Got Bugs!" LOL

[GrumpyOldMan]

"Starship Troopers"


"Bugs! Bugs! We've Got Bugs!" LOL

Yup, another closet Heinlein fan! Hoorah!

[Neils]

Do we make anything in America anymore? Seems like everything is made in other countries.

Sure. Anerica prints money. Lots of it!!

[JMintzer]

I didn't say the higher tax rate caused the growth, I am saying we became the worlds largest economy despite it. It did not prevent or discourage people from finding ways to make even more money.

And they found a way to make money despite the recent (post Y2K) tax increases...

They moved offshore, and moved jobs with them...

[JMintzer]

"Starship Troopers"


"Bugs! Bugs! We've Got Bugs!" LOL

Don't forget Denise Richards in one of her first major motion picture roles...:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[GrumpyOldMan]

And they found a way to make money despite the recent (post Y2K) tax increases...

They moved offshore, and moved jobs with them...

The majority of jobs lost, I think about 85%, have been lost to automation. And that is just the tip of the iceberg we are heading for. The only suggestion I have seen to deal with the massive loss of jobs we are heading for is to implement an “automation tax” and use it to fund UBI for those that are displaced by automation.

Stanford has and excellent series on the coming changes and potential impacts and they are streaming it all on YouTube. Leaders in economics, ethics, AI, business etc having discussions and debates. I think you might enjoy it.

Stanford HAI - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChugFTK0KyrES9terTid8vA)

[JMintzer]

The majority of jobs lost, I think about 85%, have been lost to automation. And that is just the tip of the iceberg we are heading for. The only suggestion I have seen to deal with the massive loss of jobs we are heading for is to implement an “automation tax” and use it to fund UBI for those that are displaced by automation.

Stanford has and excellent series on the coming changes and potential impacts and they are streaming it all on YouTube. Leaders in economics, ethics, AI, business etc having discussions and debates. I think you might enjoy it.

Stanford HAI - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChugFTK0KyrES9terTid8vA)

Can you please cite the source to that 85% claim? Thanks in advance...

[Byte1]

Americans enjoy living like or emulating the wealthy. Cheap products allow us to enjoy the luxuries of the wealthy lifestyle without the price of long hard work and investing. We live well. American products often cost more because thanks to unions, federal labor laws and restrictions, the cost to produce is expensive. So, the cost is handed down to the consumer.
I will continue to use whichever product that allows me to live the most luxurious life possible, and choose American made only when I can afford it. I make no apologies. Loyalty to the origin of products only goes so far. Americans are the product of their own greed. My greed says that I will purchase my big screen TV that is made in Asia rather than do without the entertainment. My products from overseas may be inferior, but they are adequate to the extent that if/when they go bad I can throw them away and afford to replace them without taking out a loan. The U.S.A label will always be my first look when shopping, but reality may cause me to shop for the less expensive item.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Can you please cite the source to that 85% claim? Thanks in advance...

You know, it is really annoying when someone calls me out on a made up number. The 85% is a number "tossed about", but I don't know if it is actually calculated anywhere.

Also, there is significant debate over the trade vs technology aspects of what is driving the job loss. Many will state the technology (automation) is minor and others will say major. Here is a paper from Dartmouth that I recalled reading a while back that analyses the debate. There is definitely a connection, and the connection is sensitive to the specific industry. As always nothing is really simple. Manufacturing has been hit hard by automation, farming is just now being impacted.

https://faculty.tuck.dartmouth.edu/images/uploads/faculty/teresa-fort/Fort_Pierce_Schott_US_Manuf_2018_JEP.pdf

[jdulej]

I am a fan of a SciFi author named Heinlein. He wrote a novel called Starship Troopers. In it, he proposed that there should be two levels of citizenship - "citizen" and "resident". Citizens have all rights and can vote. Residents get to live as second class citizens, can't vote, etc. In order to become a citizen you had to serve a tour in the military. In addition, carrying hand guns was mandatory - for citizens, and anyone could challenge anyone to a duel, refusing to accept the challenge would result in the loss of your citizenship status. (Of course accepting the duel usually resulted in one of the two losing it - LOL).

Anyway. It was interesting to read how he felt those laws would affect society. I dis agree with him, but he did propose it would lead to a much more polite society, since insulting someone could lead to a duel.

I'm a big sci-fi fan myself. Currently reading/re-reading the many books by Alastair Reynolds. Lots of long complicated reads which I enjoy.

[tvbound]

Americans enjoy living like or emulating the wealthy. Cheap products allow us to enjoy the luxuries of the wealthy lifestyle without the price of long hard work and investing. We live well. American products often cost more because thanks to unions, federal labor laws and restrictions, the cost to produce is expensive. So, the cost is handed down to the consumer.
I will continue to use whichever product that allows me to live the most luxurious life possible, and choose American made only when I can afford it. I make no apologies. Loyalty to the origin of products only goes so far. Americans are the product of their own greed. My greed says that I will purchase my big screen TV that is made in Asia rather than do without the entertainment. My products from overseas may be inferior, but they are adequate to the extent that if/when they go bad I can throw them away and afford to replace them without taking out a loan. The U.S.A label will always be my first look when shopping, but reality may cause me to shop for the less expensive item.

"I will continue to use whichever product that allows me to live the most luxurious life possible, and choose American made only when I can afford it. I make no apologies."


Perfectly exemplifying my earlier post, wherein I stated that - "we've done it to ourselves." Given that this post perfectly sums up the issue of the OP's original question/comment, this thread might as well be closed (and no, I'm not advocating that it be done) as it has pretty much run its course and the issue has been addressed, answered - and explained.

[tvbound]

I'm a big sci-fi fan myself. Currently reading/re-reading the many books by Alastair Reynolds. Lots of long complicated reads which I enjoy.

I thought Herbert's book 'Dune' was long, complicated and tough enough to read as it was - then I watched the movie. LOL

[GrumpyOldMan]

I'm a big sci-fi fan myself. Currently reading/re-reading the many books by Alastair Reynolds. Lots of long complicated reads which I enjoy.

Yup, good stuff.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I thought Herbert's book 'Dune' was long, complicated and tough enough to read as it was - then I watched the movie. LOL

Dune was in a class of it's own. Excellent.

[DAVES]

"Made in America" purchases will only come back in vogue, when people are willing to pay more (often a LOT more) for essentially the same products. It's simply common sense, that if you're paying employees more - then the cost of the goods or services will most likely be more. In essence, we have only ourselves to blame for the amount of foreign made services/goods, when we prioritize price. The ultimate irony being, that those foreign countries making so many of our products are simply trying to follow the old American model - of creating a burgeoning middle class/strong economy.

Not that simple. Very abridged story. My dad was on the Battan death march. He was one of 20 something in his battalion to survive WWII. There are 400-600 in a battalion. He passed of cancer with a piece of a shell to close to his spinal cord to be removed and was in pain most of his life. I could not buy a Japanese car. It was July 4th. Irony, all the japanese companies were running July 4th specials and the American car companies were closed. I ended up buying a Chevy. What is more American than a Chevy. It does qualify as being made in the USA. Reality 40% of it is foreign made.

Rare earth metals. Original post complete with graphs and all. Tessler being electric uses rare earth magnets. The US just reopened a mine in Calif. They are not all that rare. The mining and refining are dirty. We ship American ore to China and buy back refined rare earth metals. Made in the United States.

Apple made a whole big announcement that they were moving some production to the US. Unlike in the past,much manufacturing is done by robots. Higher American labor costs simply do not effect robots.

[JMintzer]

You know, it is really annoying when someone calls me out on a made up number. The 85% is a number "tossed about", but I don't know if it is actually calculated anywhere.

Also, there is significant debate over the trade vs technology aspects of what is driving the job loss. Many will state the technology (automation) is minor and others will say major. Here is a paper from Dartmouth that I recalled reading a while back that analyses the debate. There is definitely a connection, and the connection is sensitive to the specific industry. As always nothing is really simple. Manufacturing has been hit hard by automation, farming is just now being impacted.

https://faculty.tuck.dartmouth.edu/images/uploads/faculty/teresa-fort/Fort_Pierce_Schott_US_Manuf_2018_JEP.pdf

A simple solution would be to not toss out "made up numbers"... Easy Peasy!

[DAVES]

The USA is the World's third largest exporter - a fact often missed when we concentrate just on foreign-produced stuff that we buy.

It is also a net exporter of food (importing less than 15% of what we consume).

That is true BUT, a large part of what we export are raw materials. The US is one of the few countries that can export food. Reality, the US is one of the largest manufacturers and exporters of military hardware.

We were for a brief time a net energy exporter. To the best of my ability I deal with what is, not what should be.

[graciegirl]

In the USA, nothing is more important than making money. Not family, not nation. Just keep making money. It's how score is kept. And we're #1.

I don't think that "nothing is more important" but it beats the hell out of being powerless and unprepared.

Right away I know a lot.

[Luggage]

Made in America has to do with how much value of the product is made in America that includes assembly n

[Luggage]

Some companies pay no taxes simply due to the tax code. They are high Capital intensive and low profit margins. General electric is one of them, they have to continually build factories to make jet engines etc. Ask any accountant what depreciation is

[Luggage]

Some are Reese's peanut butter cups, lodge iron pots n pans
Most RV's
Corning glass ( some made in Mexico)
Footballs
Most carpeting, lots of underwear like fruit of the loom. Virtually all Frozen foods, virtually all upholstered furniture. Airplanes, computer games and software are made in America

55 of the most popular products made in America - MediaFeed (https://mediafeed.org/55-most-popular-products-made-america/)

[retiredguy123]

Some companies pay no taxes simply due to the tax code. They are high Capital intensive and low profit margins. General electric is one of them, they have to continually build factories to make jet engines etc. Ask any accountant what depreciation is
I think the point is that, in some cases, the tax code needs to be changed.

[Stu from NYC]

I think the point is that, in some cases, the tax code needs to be changed.

Tax code does need to be changed, too often lobbyists write the code to favor the manufacturers who pay them and the large corporation who benefits from this has previously purchased a good number of legislators.

[frose]

all this crap in these posts sure sound political to me.. hey moderator give them all 1 point..

[Luggage]

Please state where you got this fact of 90% pharmaceuticals made in China?..
We have 84 pharmaceutical companies I believe that are in the USA and they spend the bulk of the entire research monies of the world right here.
India is another place where there are a lot of generics being made.
So again show me where you got your fact of 90% of the pharmaceuticals being made in China thank you very much

Great list, I would add (and only if I can't do without it) to your Made in China line. Of course, when 90+% of all pharmaceuticals are made in China it's tough to enforce.