Vietnam vs Florida

[Ben Franklin]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

[JMintzer]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

Yet NY, with TWO million less people has more deaths...

Oh, and btw, the NYT says it's significantly less than your stated # @ 51K (as of 18 hrs ago...)

[Byte1]

I don't know where you are going with this string, but if you wish to talk about Vietnam, how about counting the 60,000+ veterans that have committed suicide?
No matter how one dies, the fact is that EVERY one dies eventually. No one gets out alive. The problem in not how they died but that some should not have lived as long as they have.

[Trayderjoe]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

Two items to consider:

1) Florida has been an open state far longer than many other states
2) Florida, on a percentage of population basis, has one of the largest for senior citizens

Looking at the rate of death (looking only at the number of cases is deceiving as it does not account for population size) involving Covid as of yesterday (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/) we see that per 100,000 people:

Mississippi: 308
New Jersey: 306
Louisiana: 288
New York: 281
Massachusetts: 267

Florida sits 10th at: 237

So then either the states with the top five highest rates states of death involving Covid were even more supportive of a personal choice agenda than Florida, or could it be that lockdowns and less personal choice are statistically NOT more effective in reducing death rates involving Covid?

[graciegirl]

And how many who died from covid were in perfect health otherwise? If covid is so deadly, why not force vaccinate illegal aliens apprehended at the border, before releasing them unrestricted into the country? Covid is about control. Wear your Chinese made paper mask, you’ll be ok.

Are you in perfect health?

Are you overweight?

What is your blood pressure, cholesterol numbers, sugar score?

Are you vaccinated?

Just wondering who we are talking to. I say that politics and stance on Covid vaccine do not always match.

[Escape Artist]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

Yeah, I don't know what his vote total has to do with anything. Or why you would use it in comparison with Covid numbers.

I'm kind of tired of those obsessed with themselves and being "safe". It's not a good look at any age but especially for seniors who have lived their lives and shouldn't be worrying about their mortality at the expense of the young. That's one of the more distasteful by-products of senior communities - the curmudgeon "get off my lawn" types who hate kids/young adults and are living in these communities to get away from them, as well as society's riff-raff. And you can include the unvaccinated in the latter category.

[JMintzer]

Are you in perfect health?

Not perfect, but pretty damn good...

Are you overweight?

Only 10-15 pounds...

What is your blood pressure, cholesterol numbers, sugar score?

110/70

99 (last blood test 6 weeks ago)

Never been over 90...

Are you vaccinated?

Yes, and I also had covid 19 months ago

Would you care to know my shoe size or anything else? :icon_wink:

Just wondering who we are talking to. I say that politics and stance on Covid vaccine do not always match.

And I've never mentioned my political stance... It's against the rules, which I'm sure you know...

[Escape Artist]

Are you in perfect health?

Are you overweight?

What is your blood pressure, cholesterol numbers, sugar score?

Are you vaccinated?

Just wondering who we are talking to. I say that politics and stance on Covid vaccine do not always match.

I think what was meant, not sure, of course, was that often times those who are already in poor health from chronic illnesses get Covid, end up in the hospital and pass away. Their deaths are counted as Covid deaths even though it was most likely that the primary cause of death was due to other conditions.

[JMintzer]

I think what was meant, not sure, of course, was that often times those who are already in poor health from chronic illnesses get Covid, end up in the hospital and pass away. Their deaths are counted as Covid deaths even though it was most likely that the primary cause of death was due to other conditions.

I agree with the content of this post...

[TSO/ISPF]

I agree with the content of this post...

Hopefully people that near death would get vaccinated. The problem is healthy people get Covid, give it to other people, and move on. This should be a PUBLIC HEALTH issue and not a political issue. Get the shot unless a real doctor says you shouldn't and let government pay that doctor for that opinion.

[dewilson58]

Died from COVID or died with COVID??

[Ben Franklin]

Died from COVID or died with COVID??

Do you have any stats that show people died with COVID (whatever that means) as opposed to died from COVID?

[dewilson58]

Do you have any stats that show people died with COVID (whatever that means) as opposed to died from COVID?

That's the point, hospitals and states are reporting COVID deaths if they have COVID, not only if COVID caused the death.

Last April, Deborah Birx, MD, coordinator of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, said this when asked about people who have COVID-19 but die from preexisting conditions: “If someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that as a COVID-19 death.”

That statement, combined with some state health officials saying they follow the same policy, sparked charges that the COVID-19 totals were inflated by deaths from other diseases and even auto accidents if the victims happened to have COVID-19.

[Trayderjoe]

I just posted the figures I found on-line for the state we are living in. I do not believe in political parties, and I have been an Independent for 20+ years. I looked at the CEO of the state and the numbers. I did not post my thoughts about the job he was doing.

Well, yeah, there was an opinion expressed when the numbers being posted were followed by the personal choice agenda comment (see below).

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

[JMintzer]

Hopefully people that near death would get vaccinated. The problem is healthy people get Covid, give it to other people, and move on. This should be a PUBLIC HEALTH issue and not a political issue. Get the shot unless a real doctor says you shouldn't and let government pay that doctor for that opinion.

Vaccinated people also get Covid, give it to other people and move on...

And I never once mentioned politics...

Oh, and I had Covid 19 months ago and also was vaccinated in January/February, lest you think I'm and anti-vaxer...

[JMintzer]

Died from COVID or died with COVID??

Problem is, that line has been blurred since they started counting...

[JMintzer]

That's the point, hospitals and states are reporting COVID deaths if they have COVID, not only if COVID caused the death.

Last April, Deborah Birx, MD, coordinator of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, said this when asked about people who have COVID-19 but die from preexisting conditions: “If someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that as a COVID-19 death.”

That statement, combined with some state health officials saying they follow the same policy, sparked charges that the COVID-19 totals were inflated by deaths from other diseases and even auto accidents if the victims happened to have COVID-19.

Prezactly...

It doesn't help with the messaging, which has been all over the place...

[Topspinmo]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

So, you done good making you political agenda point. Good job ������.

[Escape Artist]

Vaccinated people also get Covid, give it to other people and move on...

And I never once mentioned politics...

Oh, and I had Covid 19 months ago and also was vaccinated in January/February, lest you think I'm and anti-vaxer...

I understand your health is a private matter, but I'm curious about your antibodies (haha). You said you had Covid in early 2020 and then you also received the vaccine early this year. Were you tested for Abs before you had the vaccine? Just wondering how this works in the human body because there's been so much conflicting information. For instance, the CDC insists those who have had Covid should still get the vaccine. But natural immunity is probably longer-lasting than the Abs from the vaccine. Some say perhaps lifetime immunity, or near it, for a particular strain, of course.

[jswirs]

Yeah, I don't know what his vote total has to do with anything. Or why you would use it in comparison with Covid numbers.

I'm kind of tired of those obsessed with themselves and being "safe". It's not a good look at any age but especially for seniors who have lived their lives and shouldn't be worrying about their mortality at the expense of the young. That's one of the more distasteful by-products of senior communities - the curmudgeon "get off my lawn" types who hate kids/young adults and are living in these communities to get away from them, as well as society's riff-raff. And you can include the unvaccinated in the latter category.

...And, my personal experience is that the folks you mention also dislike those of us who have kept ourselves in fairly good health, by NOT engaging in UNhealthy life styles.

...And, referring to the OP's original statement, "Figures don't lie, but liar's figure". In other words don't believe MOST of what you hear, read and see.

[Luggage]

And I am sure that in the future years professors doctors and infectious disease medical professionals will study the statistics from around the world and still not know why some places created more deaths than others. All I know is I'm vaccinated and I'm 95% effectively safe but still I do wear a mask when I go out and I avoid large crowds when I can.
Two items to consider:

1) Florida has been an open state far longer than many other states
2) Florida, on a percentage of population basis, has one of the largest for senior citizens

Looking at the rate of death (looking only at the number of cases is deceiving as it does not account for population size) involving Covid as of yesterday (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/) we see that per 100,000 people:

Mississippi: 308
New Jersey: 306
Louisiana: 288
New York: 281
Massachusetts: 267

Florida sits 10th at: 237

So then either the states with the top five highest rates states of death involving Covid were even more supportive of a personal choice agenda than Florida, or could it be that lockdowns and less personal choice are statistically NOT more effective in reducing death rates involving Covid?

[Blackbird45]

To compare New York to Florida, especially NYC deifies reasoning.
You have more people crammed into one building in the city than you have in one acre in Florida.
The building I lived in had 96 apartment, that's 96 families not 96 people.
I'm surprised more than people didn't die in N.Y.

[Billy1]

It's all about the math, 100% of the people that died of covid in Florida are dead.

[DaleDivine]

To compare New York to Florida, especially NYC deifies reasoning.

I'm surprised more than people didn't die in N.Y.

As in dogs, cats, rats, or other animals???
:popcorn::popcorn:

[Travelhunter123]

Yet NY, with TWO million less people has more deaths...

Oh, and btw, the NYT says it's significantly less than your stated # @ 51K (as of 18 hrs ago...)

The density of everyday NY living unfortunately necessitates close living conditions, like apartment buildings. Ever ride the NY subway!
Of course Covid spreads more rapidly in NY

[lkagele]

...And, my personal experience is that the folks you mention also dislike those of us who have kept ourselves in fairly good health, by NOT engaging in UNhealthy life styles.

...And, referring to the OP's original statement, "Figures don't lie, but liar's figure". In other words don't believe MOST of what you hear, read and see.

Roger that. You can take any number and twist it to any conclusion you want just like the OP did. My common sense tells me living in the Free State of Florida is a darn good thing.

[Mac1996]

Over 1300 people die every day from smoking related issues.That’s around 500,000 a year,if you don’t want the vaccine that’s ok.freedom isn’t free.

[Gsmello]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

New York is still the leader!!!

[Lynnesail]

Died from COVID or died with COVID??

Would they have died without it is the question, and most often the answer is no.

[dewilson58]

Would they have died without it is the question, and most often the answer is no.

False Statement

[Bay Kid]

Sorry but I have to ask. Where are they sending all the illegals? Where? Why won't they tell Americans where they have placed all these mostly untested, unvaccinated illegals?

[dewilson58]

I wonder how many of the tens of thousands crossing our southern border have been vaccinated

No mandate for them. :ohdear:

[golden]

So, Ben Franklin, when the Eagles play the 49ers at Lincoln Financial Field this afternoon there will be about 65,000 fans in attendance.

What's your point?

[dewilson58]

What an idiot!

Connect your reply to the related posts................there are too many out there.
:clap2:

[LucyP]

Let’s honor our Vietnam Vets ! Not make this include someone you do not like in politics or COVID!

[turk3531]

You can't believe the numbers that are published. Ex: A person was killed in a motorcycle accident, and during the autopsy, he tested positive for covid, and, then his death was listed as a covid death! This happens a lot. The hospitals get more money this way, so, be careful about throwing blame/accusations around.

[Lindaws]

What is your point? I appreciated our open state vs. losing our rights

[popbaby2]

Two items to consider:

1) Florida has been an open state far longer than many other states
2) Florida, on a percentage of population basis, has one of the largest for senior citizens

Looking at the rate of death (looking only at the number of cases is deceiving as it does not account for population size) involving Covid as of yesterday (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/) we see that per 100,000 people:

Mississippi: 308
New Jersey: 306
Louisiana: 288
New York: 281
Massachusetts: 267

Florida sits 10th at: 237

So then either the states with the top five highest rates states of death involving Covid were even more supportive of a personal choice agenda than Florida, or could it be that lockdowns and less personal choice are statistically NOT more effective in reducing death rates involving Covid?

Total number of deaths for this argument is irrelevant. I would like to know the total of deaths this year since vaccinations and improved treatment has been available. Much of New York ‘s deaths were in 2020. I would bet Floridas are higher this year. And most of the south. Anyone know?

[Swoop]

Total number of deaths for this argument is irrelevant. I would like to know the total of deaths this year since vaccinations and improved treatment has been available. Much of New York ‘s deaths were in 2020. I would bet Floridas are higher this year. And most of the south. Anyone know?
It would have been really tough for NY to keep up the pace they set last year, vaccine or no vaccine. They did just about everything they could to enhance the spread. They put positive Covid patients in nursing homes! Their numbers had to slow down, they already already picked the low hanging fruit…

[jimbomaybe]

I think what was meant, not sure, of course, was that often times those who are already in poor health from chronic illnesses get Covid, end up in the hospital and pass away. Their deaths are counted as Covid deaths even though it was most likely that the primary cause of death was due to other conditions. Certainly if you count any death where a person is Covid positive as a Covid death you are "cooking the books" My understanding is it is much more about what comorbidly issues a person has, as you age your health declines, more issues and greater issues put you at greater risk, that explains why the very young have much less risk unless they have other health problems, to what extent should the rest of society make changes to protect me, or should I accept some level of self quarantine depending on MY level of risk? Are the vaccinations dangerous in and of themselves,, of course every thing we do has risk benefits attached even the annual flu shot and the complete picture of the risk will not be know for some time. This like everything else will be politized because human beings are political animals, its how we organize ( or disorganize) ourselves

[Marine1974]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...
VIETNAM
You must add in the 400,000
who have died or suffered from the effects of agent orange . You should also consider the Ill effects passed down to their children. .

[jmac1031]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...
Did your count include all the ones who died from the affects like complications from Agent Orange or mental health issues? Everyone is responsible for their own health and safety especially when the hazard is inflicted by its own Government!

[butlerperkins@gmail.com]

2021 0919 Sunday ������ 08:31
My world has changed more than at any time in my life, because I have yet to get a shot(s). Stop here, at these words, and imagine what your life would be like had you not received the shot(s).

<pause>

It is tough listening to the government and the press and ordinary citizenry chastise and curse at you for not being one of those to get the treatment — every day. It hurts, at times.

But
Excuse me for taking my pardon now, I have a dance to attend in Pennsylvania. My lady and I will mask the entire time, avoid close contact with other dancers (though they will come to us to welcome us and introduce themselves).

If asked, I will say that I am not “jabbed”.

The toughest part is dancing Viennese Waltz, or Quickstep, or Samba (yes, the dance Samba) or Jive with a filtered mask on! My heart rate will soar.

At the end of the dance, I will be so thankful to drive home, shower, sleep and awaken to tomorrow’s headlines.

I will also be thankful to open ToTV and read your posts.

[JMintzer]

I understand your health is a private matter, but I'm curious about your antibodies (haha). You said you had Covid in early 2020 and then you also received the vaccine early this year. Were you tested for Abs before you had the vaccine? Just wondering how this works in the human body because there's been so much conflicting information. For instance, the CDC insists those who have had Covid should still get the vaccine. But natural immunity is probably longer-lasting than the Abs from the vaccine. Some say perhaps lifetime immunity, or near it, for a particular strain, of course.

They are tests for two types pf antibodies. One is short term, the other, long term.

I made sure they tested for the latter..

[JMintzer]

To compare New York to Florida, especially NYC deifies reasoning.
You have more people crammed into one building in the city than you have in one acre in Florida.
The building I lived in had 96 apartment, that's 96 families not 96 people.
I'm surprised more than people didn't die in N.Y.

NYC is only part of NY State.

SE FL is massively crowded...

Your argument defies reasoning...

[JMintzer]

The density of everyday NY living unfortunately necessitates close living conditions, like apartment buildings. Ever ride the NY subway!
Of course Covid spreads more rapidly in NY

You do realize that NY is a HUGE state, don't you? NYC is only part of that state...

Last I checked Miami, Lauderdale, Boca, etc, etc, etc were full of apartment bldgs and condos...

[JMintzer]

True....but that was the result of infections that occurred at the very beginning of the pandemic when nobody knew how this new disease was spread, how to treat it nor were there any vaccines available. NY was hard hit because it's density and because is the nation's capital for finance, media and commerce as well as being an international gateway to America.
Almost two years later, what is DeSantis's excuse?

Miami isn't an international gateway? Since when?

FL isn't the nation's capital for tourism?

SE FL isn't dense?

[JMintzer]

I wonder how many of the tens of thousands crossing our southern border have been vaccinated

There is no requirement for them to be vaccinated...

[JMintzer]

Would they have died without it is the question, and most often the answer is no.

You know this how?

[Teena Q]

Exactly!--Died FROM Covid or WITH Covid is never reported. There is adifference.

[JMintzer]

Connect your reply to the related posts................there are too many out there.
:clap2:

I agree with the content of this post...:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[lwmilo]

I don't know where you are going with this string, but if you wish to talk about Vietnam, how about counting the 60,000+ veterans that have committed suicide?
No matter how one dies, the fact is that EVERY one dies eventually. No one gets out alive. The problem in not how they died but that some should not have lived as long as they have.

Amen brother...

Namvet 168

[KRMACK55]

And how many who died from covid were in perfect health otherwise? If covid is so deadly, why not force vaccinate illegal aliens apprehended at the border, before releasing them unrestricted into the country? Covid is about control. Wear your Chinese made paper mask, you’ll be ok.
Thank you

[Hifred]

I just checked the NYT and it documents 51,240 Florida Covid 19 deaths. The Vietnam war was 10 years long and we lost 58,220 US soldiers. If you look at the average deaths per year, Covid is killing a lot of people. When a virus is widely circulating in a population and causing many infections, the likelihood of the virus mutating increases. The more opportunities a virus has to spread, the more it replicates – and the more opportunities it has to undergo changes. Therefore we need to do all we can to stop the spread that means mask up to stop the spread, get vaccinated to stop the spread, DO YOUR PART to help others stay healthy. There are so many selfish Americans these days who won't do a simple thing such as put on a mask to help keep a child from getting sick or a grocery clerk or a cashier who has to face many people each day. Covid germs start in the nose and mouth, then in the unvaccinated travel quickly to the lungs. If you are vaccinated Covid still goes in your nose and mouth but your body fights it off before it can reach your lungs; however, you can spread the virus. Children under 12 can't get vaccinated, people who are undergoing cancer treatment or have received organ transplants remain at risk. So wear a mask when shopping. It is something simple to do to help others.

[KRMACK55]

Yeah, I don't know what his vote total has to do with anything. Or why you would use it in comparison with Covid numbers.

I'm kind of tired of those obsessed with themselves and being "safe". It's not a good look at any age but especially for seniors who have lived their lives and shouldn't be worrying about their mortality at the expense of the young. That's one of the more distasteful by-products of senior communities - the curmudgeon "get off my lawn" types who hate kids/young adults and are living in these communities to get away from them, as well as society's riff-raff. And you can include the unvaccinated in the latter category.
Sadly it’s alive and well in TV and getting worse as the population balloons! Groupthink mob rule the cart people or neighbors making anonymous complaints - these are rampant and getting worse. The diagnosis is

Tbono - the boss of no one

[tjameson]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Don't know what the number of votes has to do with your analogy. How about the number of deaths from the flu from 2011-2020 amounting to approximately 500,000 Americans according to the CDC? No masks were ever required or even discussed. No vaccination craze.

That's because any such comparisons are prohibited in this most politically charged society.

Oh wait! Maybe because Americans were never FEARFUL of the flu despite the fact that it kills so many every year.

[KYtoTV2021]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

No political references? Me thinks you gonna lose a point.
It appears that you want to mandate testing.
I wonder how much our overall health would improve if we "require" obese people to lose weight.......particularly those on public assistance like Medicaid. Humm

[merrymini]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

Living proof of what Einstein said, “the difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has it’s limits.” Your numbers make no sense.

[Marine1974]

I think what was meant, not sure, of course, was that often times those who are already in poor health from chronic illnesses get Covid, end up in the hospital and pass away. Their deaths are counted as Covid deaths even though it was most likely that the primary cause of death was due to other conditions.

Yes your right under the cares act which provides extra money to healthcare facilities taking care of patients who could very well be suffering from other illnesses or injuries but have Covid .
Hospitals are having to add in signing bonuses to staff ICU beds .
If you knew anything about healthcare you would know they are having a very difficult time keeping staff who risk their own health being exposed to patients with Covid versus taking care of patients without Covid . PPE costs are much higher taking care of a patient who in addition to other illnesses or injuries. If the hospitals do not receive money from the cares act for Covid patients there is a good possibility your not going to have access to an ICU bed when you need it . If you were the CEO of a hospital, it would have to shut down since your against taking extra money from the Cares act for treating Covid
patients and not having the ability to keep your staff or buy extra supplies needed .

[Marine1974]

I don't know where you are going with this string, but if you wish to talk about Vietnam, how about counting the 60,000+ veterans that have committed suicide?
No matter how one dies, the fact is that EVERY one dies eventually. No one gets out alive. The problem in not how they died but that some should not have lived as long as they have.

Not believers , they have eternal life .

[Ron Hunter]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...
You have tried to link together a lot of irrelevant data. That's not how the scientific method works.

[mrrmauu]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

I personally find using dead veterans for a political agenda distasteful, but that’s just me. Off to my block list with you.

[amexsbow]

OK Ben Franklin, move out of Florida. Perhaps you should return to NJ. It seems that everyone wants to move to the south because it is better than where they moved from, but then they immediately want to start changing into the hell hole they escaped.

[Blackbird45]

In an earlier posting someone compared N.Y. to Fl.

Let’s compare the U.S. to China

China 3,705 Sq. miles
The U.S, 328.2 Sq. miles

China population 1,398 billion
U.S. population 328.2 million.

COVID deaths in China 4,636
COVID deaths in U.S. 674,000

No there is no way I would want to live under China communist rule.
But the death total according to google is eye popping.
In China they don’t tell you there is a mandate; they tell you to do something and you do it.
I’m not saying we should adopt their type of government and give up our freedom, but we should take a closer look to see what is working there.

[sasman29]

Interesting to note. 50,825 Florida Covid Deaths as of 9/18/21
But also interesting to note that FL is 12th in number of deaths per million
What is more concerning is that Mississippi has a higher death per million than NJ, NY, or MA which were the original epicenters. Also very concerning is that FL has 1,042,069 active cases.

[toeser]

In an earlier posting someone compared N.Y. to Fl.

Let’s compare the U.S. to China

China 3,705 Sq. miles
The U.S, 328.2 Sq. miles

China population 1,398 billion
U.S. population 328.2 million.

COVID deaths in China 4,636
COVID deaths in U.S. 674,000

No there is no way I would want to live under China communist rule.
But the death total according to google is eye popping.
In China they don’t tell you there is a mandate; they tell you to do something and you do it.
I’m not saying we should adopt their type of government and give up our freedom, but we should take a closer look to see what is working there.


You actually believe the COVID death toll numbers coming out of China? Seriously?

[nick demis]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

First of all "Hey moderator, are only conservative political things banned?" Second, if you don't like it here in Florida, don't let the door hit you in the a when you leave and go to a blue state.

[HRDave]

Vaccine Hesitancy has NOTHING to do with politics.
This study is just one of many that indicates cultural differences have more to do with the unvaccinated than political beliefs.

“ These findings suggest that interventions focused on addressing vaccine hesitancy among HCWs are needed, particularly for Black and Hispanic or Latino HCWs, among whom hesitancy is highest”.

Racial/Ethnic Differences in COVID-19 Vaccine Hesitancy Among Health Care Workers in 2 Large Academic Hospitals | Infectious Diseases | JAMA Network Open | JAMA Network (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2783615)

[Eg_cruz]

I personally find using dead veterans for a political agenda distasteful, but that’s just me. Off to my block list with you.
Agree 100%…..just sad

[JMintzer]

In an earlier posting someone compared N.Y. to Fl.

Let’s compare the U.S. to China

China 3,705 Sq. miles
The U.S, 328.2 Sq. miles

China population 1,398 billion
U.S. population 328.2 million.

COVID deaths in China 4,636
COVID deaths in U.S. 674,000

No there is no way I would want to live under China communist rule.
But the death total according to google is eye popping.
In China they don’t tell you there is a mandate; they tell you to do something and you do it.
I’m not saying we should adopt their type of government and give up our freedom, but we should take a closer look to see what is working there.

You actually believe the numbers coming out of China? Really?

[Neils]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

I love having personal control over my body vs government mandates.
Back in NJ the government mandates almost everything plus charges very high taxes on its citizens.
NJ sounds like a wonderful place to move to. Especially for those that do not like Florida.

[fgaba1949]

how many of those covid deaths were from the flu ..Each year the flu kills how many folks ? And how many flu deaths were recorded last year in the US ?????

[Topspinmo]

True....but that was the result of infections that occurred at the very beginning of the pandemic when nobody knew how this new disease was spread, how to treat it nor were there any vaccines available. NY was hard hit because it's density and because is the nation's capital for finance, media and commerce as well as being an international gateway to America.
Almost two years later, what is DeSantis's excuse?


Wasn’t NY’er fleeing to Florida?

[Topspinmo]

Yet, this politicaL Agenda post continues.

[Blackbird45]

Look the death toll from China might be false, but it's obvious we are not doing everything we can to stop this.

[Topspinmo]

Look the death toll from China might be false, but it's obvious we are not doing everything we can to stop this.


Might be? LOL china could be not reporting 100 million and know one would know it. And another thing? According to Google LOL ������. Yep, like Google don’t have agenda.

[Topspinmo]

You actually believe the numbers coming out of China? Really?


Why wouldn’t he or she, according to person in charge they are good people.

[SkBlogW]

Trojan maxim: "Beware of Greeks bearing statistics"

16% of US population is over 65 years old

80% of covid deaths are over 65 years old.

So you would expect higher death rates per capita in states with higher percentages of seniors.

Lets take a look:

Florida has highest percentage of seniors in USA at 20.1%

Other big states: New York 16.1% California 14% Texas 12.3%

Population Over 65 by State (2021) | ConsumerAffairs (https://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/elderly-population-by-state.html#:~:text=1%20Over%2050%20million%20senio r%20citizens%20live%20in,%28over%205.4%20million%2 9%2C%20followed%20by%20Florida%20%284.2%20million% 29).

If you compare total covid death per 100k the big states:

NY 281
FL 237
TX 211
CA 171

• U.S. COVID-19 death rate by state | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/)

But when you adjust covid death rates to account for seniors, who are far more likely to die, you get the following ranking (from worst to best)

NY
TX
CA
FL

Here is a chart in a paper which calculated age adjusted death rates for countries, you can see that countries with high percentage of seniors like USA etc had a large difference when you compare the "crude" death rate per capita to the "adjusted" rate.

90856

[JMintzer]

Look the death toll from China might be false, but it's obvious we are not doing everything we can to stop this.

Does "everything we can" include welding doors shut on apartment buildings in order to keep people in?

[mistervin]

A wise person once said “Figures lie and liars figure”

[SkBlogW]

A wise person once said “Figures lie and liars figure”

A guy with a PHD in math once said "put up or shut up"

[Trayderjoe]

I just checked the NYT and it documents 51,240 Florida Covid 19 deaths. The Vietnam war was 10 years long and we lost 58,220 US soldiers. If you look at the average deaths per year, Covid is killing a lot of people. When a virus is widely circulating in a population and causing many infections, the likelihood of the virus mutating increases. The more opportunities a virus has to spread, the more it replicates – and the more opportunities it has to undergo changes. Therefore we need to do all we can to stop the spread that means mask up to stop the spread, get vaccinated to stop the spread, DO YOUR PART to help others stay healthy. There are so many selfish Americans these days who won't do a simple thing such as put on a mask to help keep a child from getting sick or a grocery clerk or a cashier who has to face many people each day. Covid germs start in the nose and mouth, then in the unvaccinated travel quickly to the lungs. If you are vaccinated Covid still goes in your nose and mouth but your body fights it off before it can reach your lungs; however, you can spread the virus. Children under 12 can't get vaccinated, people who are undergoing cancer treatment or have received organ transplants remain at risk. So wear a mask when shopping. It is something simple to do to help others.

Nature Microbiology,
We shouldn’t worry when a virus mutates during disease outbreaks (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-0690-4) by Nathan D. Grubaugh, Mary E. Petrone & Edward C. Holmes Published Feb. 2020

"Mutation. The word naturally conjures fears of unexpected and freakish changes. Ill-informed discussions of mutations thrive during virus outbreaks, including the ongoing spread of SARS-CoV-2. In reality, mutations are a natural part of the virus life cycle and rarely impact outbreaks dramatically."

Later in the article: "Mutations can also make a virus either more or less virulent. A common idea is that virulence will only change — either upwards or downwards — if it increases the transmission rate of the virus, which effectively means an increase in the number of virus ‘offspring’. However, high virulence may (although by no means always) reduce transmissibility if the host is too sick to expose others."

So, if you have cold/flu like symptoms, instead of wearing a mask, why not stay home until you feel better and become asymptomatic? Wouldn't this one step help prevent the spread? If you have to go out to the store to get essentials while ill, wearing a mask will help prevent the gross droplets from being transmitted should you cough or sneeze, but it doesn't prevent all virus particles from filtering through the commonly used masks. There is no data that shows that wearing the commonly used masks PREVENT the transmission of Covid (or any other virus for that matter), but it can help slow the spread when combined with other preventative measures (Mayo Clinic (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449)). And if in consultation with your doctor it is determined that you should wear a mask and when/where to do so, then by all means wear one.

Covid is NOT going away-much like the flu and the common cold, we do need to understand it more and learn to live with it.

I am curious as to why there is no discussion on therapeutics by "the powers that be"? The only coverage on therapeutics (which would help in recovery from Covid) I have heard is to deride the potential options. Curious since some of these options have been used medically in humans for years and may turn out to be effective in post Covid treatment-time will tell. Ivermectin for one resulted in a Nobel Peace Prize in 2015 (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2052297521000883) for its' use discovery in the treatment of infectious diseases. However, the "talking heads" in the media (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/joe-rogan-says-he-tested-positive-covid-took-ivermectin-n1278323) reference Ivermectin as a drug for horses not humans and mocked its use in Covid treatment, yet these same talking heads are telling people to "get the jab" of essentially an experimental vaccine (there are of course no multi-year studies on the effectiveness or long term side effects of the vaccine). I am by no means suggesting that people shouldn't get the vaccine, but that they should consult with their doctor and determine an appropriate treatment plan versus listening to an often wrong panel of "talking heads."

[RealtorKaren]

Two items to consider:

1) Florida has been an open state far longer than many other states
2) Florida, on a percentage of population basis, has one of the largest for senior citizens

Looking at the rate of death (looking only at the number of cases is deceiving as it does not account for population size) involving Covid as of yesterday (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/) we see that per 100,000 people:

Mississippi: 308
New Jersey: 306
Louisiana: 288
New York: 281
Massachusetts: 267

Florida sits 10th at: 237

So then either the states with the top five highest rates states of death involving Covid were even more supportive of a personal choice agenda than Florida, or could it be that lockdowns and less personal choice are statistically NOT more effective in reducing death rates involving Covid?
I believe the fact that the Covid19 vaccine was made available to Florida’s older population first, before a lot of other states population, has helped keep its death numbers lower than some states.

[John_W]

I believe the fact that the Covid19 vaccine was made available to Florida’s older population first, before a lot of other states population, has helped keep its death numbers lower than some states.

I had both my Moderna shots in Feb and March at Publix, the booster shot last week at the VA in Mulberry and my flu shot (don't forget you still need one) at Walgreens last week. I feel pretty safe when I go out.

[Trayderjoe]

Total number of deaths for this argument is irrelevant. I would like to know the total of deaths this year since vaccinations and improved treatment has been available. Much of New York ‘s deaths were in 2020. I would bet Floridas are higher this year. And most of the south. Anyone know?

The data presented was rate of death, not total number of deaths from Covid. Additionally, those numbers were current as of 9/17 and are adjusted as each state reports new data.

Yes most of the south has higher numbers now because they hit the delta variant peak and now the number of cases is dropping. Other states, including the northeast will start to see the number of cases increase as they begin dealing with the delta variant (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-delta-variant-has-now-peaked-in-these-4-states-experts-say/ss-AAOedDa). The northeast has not yet seen the crest, but more like waves per CNBC report (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/03/covid-cases-dr-scott-gottlieb-says-northeast-has-yet-to-see-true-delta-wave.html) on 9/3/21

[Trayderjoe]

I believe the fact that the Covid19 vaccine was made available to Florida’s older population first, before a lot of other states population, has helped keep its death numbers lower than some states.

I don't know that Florida got the vaccine first and distributed before any other state, I believe it was available to all of the states and each state made distribution plans. I do agree that focusing on the 65 and over population for vaccine distribution first, based upon the data at the time, did help reduce the potential deaths that may have otherwise occurred. Later data shows that people 75 and over and those with comorbidity issues were most at risk.

[yabbadu]

So many Mis-Statements in this thread ------WOW:pray:

[DOGSAREKEEPERS]

YOU SAY -

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.
---
Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy... [QUOTE=Ben Franklin;2006103]I just posted the figures I found on-line for the state we are living in. I do not believe in political parties, and I have been an Independent for 20+ years. I looked at the CEO of the state and the numbers.

" did not post my thoughts about the job he was doing."

I became an Independent after reading George Washington's farewell address. In part, Washington said,
--------------------------
Me Thinks Thou Doth Protest Too Much,

[Blackbird45]

If you don't believe what China is putting forward I understand, but how about what is being reported here.
It seems the states that are having the biggest problem with COVID are the least vaccinated.
And the governors of these state are not disagreeing on what is being reported.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

If you say you got it at VA then I guess you did , but I’m not seeing it anywhere the only thing I did see is they would start with over 75 which I am and after 6 months which I have passed getting mine through va last on jan 28

[Rooklift]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

First off you made this a political post.

Secondly when/if we are able to sue for severe adverse effects from the vaccines I will consider getting one ... otherwise I would be a fool to get one.

Thirdly you made this a political post.

[JMintzer]

I believe the fact that the Covid19 vaccine was made available to Florida’s older population first, before a lot of other states population, has helped keep its death numbers lower than some states.

Correct...

[JMintzer]

I don't know that Florida got the vaccine first and distributed before any other state, I believe it was available to all of the states and each state made distribution plans. I do agree that focusing on the 65 and over population for vaccine distribution first, based upon the data at the time, did help reduce the potential deaths that may have otherwise occurred. Later data shows that people 75 and over and those with comorbidity issues were most at risk.

No one said FL got the vaccine before other states.

The assertion was that FL distributed their vaccine supply differently...

[Brynnie]

Two items to consider:

1) Florida has been an open state far longer than many other states
2) Florida, on a percentage of population basis, has one of the largest for senior citizens

Looking at the rate of death (looking only at the number of cases is deceiving as it does not account for population size) involving Covid as of yesterday (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/) we see that per 100,000 people:

Mississippi: 308
New Jersey: 306
Louisiana: 288
New York: 281
Massachusetts: 267

Florida sits 10th at: 237

So then either the states with the top five highest rates states of death involving Covid were even more supportive of a personal choice agenda than Florida, or could it be that lockdowns and less personal choice are statistically NOT more effective in reducing death rates involving Covid?
Talk about comparing apples and oranges! Sounds political to me.

[cheweycat]

Nice diversion. How about FLORIDA???

[HORNET]

Thi is not a political format

[nancyre]

Meanwhile now - FL numbers are dropping and NYS is climbing (per local NY media)

[Byte1]

Not believers , they have eternal life .

True. :pray:
But, I think you know what I meant.

[JMintzer]

And the point is...?

My point was obvious... NY, with significantly less people, has had significantly more deaths and a significantly higher death rate...

[Trayderjoe]

No one said FL got the vaccine before other states.

That would be an incorrect statement (per the highlighted section below) as I was responding to the written word, not perhaps a different intent:

I believe the fact that the Covid19 vaccine was made available to Florida’s older population first, before a lot of other states population, has helped keep its death numbers lower than some states.

The assertion was that FL distributed their vaccine supply differently...

With that I had previously agreed:

I don't know that Florida got the vaccine first and distributed before any other state, I believe it was available to all of the states and each state made distribution plans. I do agree that focusing on the 65 and over population for vaccine distribution first, based upon the data at the time, did help reduce the potential deaths that may have otherwise occurred. Later data shows that people 75 and over and those with comorbidity issues were most at risk.

[Trayderjoe]

Talk about comparing apples and oranges! Sounds political to me.

What is the comparison of apples to oranges? The data presented was the rate of death from Covid which accounts for differences in population sizes. Note that the OP also introduced DeSantis to the post and then wrote and I quote, "Gotta love that personal choice agenda...." The implication was that most of the deaths in Florida cited in the OP's numbers were somehow tied to the "personal choice agenda". Given that Florida opened up earlier than most of the states with higher rates of Covid deaths, and the topic of discussion was the "personal choice agenda", surely one could question the effectiveness of lockdowns and mask mandates to which the people of Florida were not subjected?

Perhaps actual data that contradicts unverified assertions is the scary part, thus the claim of my original post being political in response to the OP?

[Joe C.]

Ask yourself this:
How many Vietnam deaths had underlying conditions?

[jimjamuser]

Two items to consider:

1) Florida has been an open state far longer than many other states
2) Florida, on a percentage of population basis, has one of the largest for senior citizens

Looking at the rate of death (looking only at the number of cases is deceiving as it does not account for population size) involving Covid as of yesterday (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/) we see that per 100,000 people:

Mississippi: 308
New Jersey: 306
Louisiana: 288
New York: 281
Massachusetts: 267

Florida sits 10th at: 237

So then either the states with the top five highest rates states of death involving Covid were even more supportive of a personal choice agenda than Florida, or could it be that lockdowns and less personal choice are statistically NOT more effective in reducing death rates involving Covid?
I am NOT believing the logic leading to that conclusion. There may be several other factors. But, one important factor is TIME - the beginning time of 1st spike. The states around NY state broke early due to NYC as a hub and not having an EARLY ban on travel from China or other problem countries. So, throw those states out for purposes of predicting future deaths per 100,000. Then, Florida is better compared to Louisianna, Mississippi, and the other late surging states. Also, as to TIMING, DELTA came on later and IS a big factor to consider. It IS likely that Florida will work its way HIGHER on that list!

[SkBlogW]

It IS likely that Florida will work its way HIGHER on that list!

Are you excited about that ??

Time for the Northern states to dance with Delta

90870

90869

[pablo cruze]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

where'd u get the covid figures?

Worldometer United States COVID: 42,900,813 Cases and 691,878 Deaths - Worldometer (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/)has Florida at 50825 as of yesterday (maybe they revived 415 since last week - jk).
Also maybe your title should be FL vs MS, NJ, LA, NY, AL, AZ, MA, RI, AR, SD, CT. Each of these states has a higher death rate vs. state population than Florida.

I don't know the facts pertaining to the the margin of victory in the latest gubernatorial elections for those states....so I won't be running a regression analysis to determine the best fit curve and obtain the equation to predict a states death rate vs. governor margin of victory. :cool:

[Ben Franklin]

Don't know what the number of votes has to do with your analogy. How about the number of deaths from the flu from 2011-2020 amounting to approximately 500,000 Americans according to the CDC? No masks were ever required or even discussed. No vaccination craze.

That's because any such comparisons are prohibited in this most politically charged society.

Oh wait! Maybe because Americans were never FEARFUL of the flu despite the fact that it kills so many every year.

500,000 dead from the flu in 9 years, 650,000+ dead in 1.7 months. Mmmmm.

[pablo cruze]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...
Um.....Ok Ok Ok, no sense for me to become contentions....."The grass IS blue."

[pablo cruze]

2021 0919 Sunday ������ 08:31
My world has changed more than at any time in my life, because I have yet to get a shot(s). Stop here, at these words, and imagine what your life would be like had you not received the shot(s).

<pause>

It is tough listening to the government and the press and ordinary citizenry chastise and curse at you for not being one of those to get the treatment — every day. It hurts, at times.

But
Excuse me for taking my pardon now, I have a dance to attend in Pennsylvania. My lady and I will mask the entire time, avoid close contact with other dancers (though they will come to us to welcome us and introduce themselves).

If asked, I will say that I am not “jabbed”.

The toughest part is dancing Viennese Waltz, or Quickstep, or Samba (yes, the dance Samba) or Jive with a filtered mask on! My heart rate will soar.

At the end of the dance, I will be so thankful to drive home, shower, sleep and awaken to tomorrow’s headlines.

I will also be thankful to open ToTV and read your posts.
Thanks for sharing. I hope that you stay safe (and enjoy the dance).
I got the shot as soon as I could (Janssen) [on Good Friday], no side effects. I continued to stay quarantined for 2 weeks (social distance); but since then I've resumed a "new" (ab)normal routine.

[Trayderjoe]

I am NOT believing the logic leading to that conclusion. There may be several other factors. But, one important factor is TIME - the beginning time of 1st spike. The states around NY state broke early due to NYC as a hub and not having an EARLY ban on travel from China or other problem countries. So, throw those states out for purposes of predicting future deaths per 100,000. Then, Florida is better compared to Louisianna, Mississippi, and the other late surging states. Also, as to TIMING, DELTA came on later and IS a big factor to consider. It IS likely that Florida will work its way HIGHER on that list!

The original discussion was to address the implication by the OP that "a personal choice agenda" was behind the number of deaths in Florida. The data presented was also not a prediction of future deaths, but the current rate of death related to Covid.

Where ever the "first spike" occurred, it has been normalized in the death rate data since the first spike occurred over 12 months ago. You don't get to just throw out data that is inconvenient to a narrative as originally suggested in the response above.

Some (not all) southern states recently experienced a spike with the delta variant and the number of cases are now dropping, but the number of deaths from the delta variant are already showing in the data. For example, Florida was the state ranked 20th in death rate last week, but as of 2 days ago it has moved up to 10th. Other states, including the northeast will start to see the number of cases increase as they begin dealing with the delta variant (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-delta-variant-has-now-peaked-in-these-4-states-experts-say/ss-AAOedDa). The northeast has not yet seen the crest, but more like waves per CNBC report (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/03/covid-cases-dr-scott-gottlieb-says-northeast-has-yet-to-see-true-delta-wave.html) on 9/3/21. So then, even with Florida moving up10 spots due to the delta surge that the northeast has not yet experienced, NY currently still ranks as the 4th highest in the country.

Are there other factors that can be included in the death rates for Covid? Absolutely.
So what factors have contributed to the death rates? How did protecting seniors in nursing homes and first providing inoculations to people 65 and older as well as those with co-morbidity issues impact the death rate? How did the placing of Covid infected patients into nursing homes impact the death rate? How does the transfer of non-vaccinated and Covid tested positive people to different areas of the country impact the death rate in those states? I am well aware that there are other factors beyond these such as each seasonal surges that may occur at different times of the year in different states.

So no, there are no simple answers, but making unsubstantiated generalized claims has, I believe, once again been proven perilous. Let's continue to collect and analyze the data (be careful of extrapolating based upon one or two data points) and not run from the data.

Lastly, unfortunately science and facts take a backdoor when it doesn't agree with the desired narrative.

[pablo cruze]

Nature Microbiology,
We shouldn’t worry when a virus mutates during disease outbreaks (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-0690-4) by Nathan D. Grubaugh, Mary E. Petrone & Edward C. Holmes Published Feb. 2020

"Mutation. The word naturally conjures fears of unexpected and freakish changes. Ill-informed discussions of mutations thrive during virus outbreaks, including the ongoing spread of SARS-CoV-2. In reality, mutations are a natural part of the virus life cycle and rarely impact outbreaks dramatically."

Later in the article: "Mutations can also make a virus either more or less virulent. A common idea is that virulence will only change — either upwards or downwards — if it increases the transmission rate of the virus, which effectively means an increase in the number of virus ‘offspring’. However, high virulence may (although by no means always) reduce transmissibility if the host is too sick to expose others."

So, if you have cold/flu like symptoms, instead of wearing a mask, why not stay home until you feel better and become asymptomatic? Wouldn't this one step help prevent the spread? If you have to go out to the store to get essentials while ill, wearing a mask will help prevent the gross droplets from being transmitted should you cough or sneeze, but it doesn't prevent all virus particles from filtering through the commonly used masks. There is no data that shows that wearing the commonly used masks PREVENT the transmission of Covid (or any other virus for that matter), but it can help slow the spread when combined with other preventative measures (Mayo Clinic (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449)). And if in consultation with your doctor it is determined that you should wear a mask and when/where to do so, then by all means wear one.

Covid is NOT going away-much like the flu and the common cold, we do need to understand it more and learn to live with it.

I am curious as to why there is no discussion on therapeutics by "the powers that be"? The only coverage on therapeutics (which would help in recovery from Covid) I have heard is to deride the potential options. Curious since some of these options have been used medically in humans for years and may turn out to be effective in post Covid treatment-time will tell. Ivermectin for one resulted in a Nobel Peace Prize in 2015 (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2052297521000883) for its' use discovery in the treatment of infectious diseases. However, the "talking heads" in the media (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/joe-rogan-says-he-tested-positive-covid-took-ivermectin-n1278323) reference Ivermectin as a drug for horses not humans and mocked its use in Covid treatment, yet these same talking heads are telling people to "get the jab" of essentially an experimental vaccine (there are of course no multi-year studies on the effectiveness or long term side effects of the vaccine). I am by no means suggesting that people shouldn't get the vaccine, but that they should consult with their doctor and determine an appropriate treatment plan versus listening to an often wrong panel of "talking heads."
I like the photo of your doggies

[pablo cruze]

You have tried to link together a lot of irrelevant data. That's not how the scientific method works.
a different kind of science - like flying a kite in a lightning storm...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Two neighbors with COVID, few symptoms, none severe. My sister had COVID last year, she was sick for three months, and now has tons of antibodies and gets tested regularly, rather than vaccinate since she has a blood clotting disorder and doesn't qualify for the vaccines.

A friend just told me his younger brother was intubated today, and it doesn't look good for him. My friend is only in his 30's, his brother I believe is just around 30. I don't know if his brother was vaccinated or not, but I do know they live in an area of the country where a vast majority of people are _not_ vaccinated. If the majority had been, perhaps his brother wouldn't have contracted it in the first place.

[chuggmeister]

Do you have any stats that show people died with COVID (whatever that means) as opposed to died from COVID?
Ok, let’s say I’m an alcoholic.
Ok, your an alcoholic.

Now let’s say I quit drinking entirely 10 years ago.

Now, let’s say I went to the doctor and was told I have liver disease. BAD liver disease.

On the way home I die of a massive heart attack. Turns out I had diabetes too.

What did I die of? Heart attack? Diabetes? Liver disease? Alcoholism?

[Swoop]

Ok, let’s say I’m an alcoholic.
Ok, your an alcoholic.

Now let’s say I quit drinking entirely 10 years ago.

Now, let’s say I went to the doctor and was told I have liver disease. BAD liver disease.

On the way home I die of a massive heart attack. Turns out I had diabetes too.

What did I die of? Heart attack? Diabetes? Liver disease? Alcoholism?

That’s too easy…
Covid

[JMintzer]

500,000 dead from the flu in 9 years, 650,000+ dead in 1.7 months. Mmmmm.

You're ASSuming that all 650K died FROM Covid and not simply WITH Covid...

[JMintzer]

From the CDC (2020 Deaths)

"Approximately 375,000 deaths during 2020 were attributed to COVID-19 on death certificates reported to CDC (1). Concerns have been raised that some deaths are being improperly attributed to COVID-19 (2). Analysis of International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10) diagnoses on official death certificates might provide an expedient and efficient method to demonstrate whether reported COVID-19 deaths are being overestimated. CDC assessed documentation of diagnoses co-occurring with an ICD-10 code for COVID-19 (U07.1) on U.S. death certificates from 2020 that had been reported to CDC as of February 22, 2021. Among 378,048 death certificates listing U07.1, a total of 357,133 (94.5%) had at least one other ICD-10 code; 20,915 (5.5%) had only U07.1. Overall, 97.3% of 357,133 death certificates with at least one other diagnosis (91.9% of all 378,048 death certificates) were noted to have a co-occurring diagnosis that was a plausible chain-of-event condition (e.g., pneumonia or respiratory failure), a significant contributing condition (e.g., hypertension or diabetes), or both. Overall, 70%–80% of death certificates had both a chain-of-event condition and a significant contributing condition or a chain-of-event condition only; this was noted for adults aged 18–84 years, both males and females, persons of all races and ethnicities, those who died in inpatient and outpatient or emergency department settings, and those whose manner of death was listed as natural. "

[lkagele]

You're ASSuming that all 650K died FROM Covid and not simply WITH Covid...

Exactly. Was reading an article yesterday about Colorado COVID numbers being skewed. A murder suicide there was reported as two COVID deaths.

[Bogie Shooter]

Ok, let’s say I’m an alcoholic.
Ok, your an alcoholic.

Now let’s say I quit drinking entirely 10 years ago.

Now, let’s say I went to the doctor and was told I have liver disease. BAD liver disease.

On the way home I die of a massive heart attack. Turns out I had diabetes too.

What did I die of? Heart attack? Diabetes? Liver disease? Alcoholism?

Not wearing a seatbelt……..

[Ben Franklin]

Wow. Throw out some stats and this is what ensued. Amazing. Oh, and the "died with COVID" idea. I love that one. When one wants to deny, just make something up by using anecdotal info. SMH.

[Topspinmo]

500,000 dead from the flu in 9 years, 650,000+ dead in 1.7 months. Mmmmm.


How long was the VN conflict? So, let’s not use that comparison.

[Topspinmo]

Wow. Throw out some stats and this is what ensued. Amazing. Oh, and the "died with COVID" idea. I love that one. When one wants to deny, just make something up by using anecdotal info. SMH.


You stats are flawed, what do y9u expect you going get?

[JMintzer]

Wow. Throw out some stats and this is what ensued. Amazing. Oh, and the "died with COVID" idea. I love that one. When one wants to deny, just make something up by using anecdotal info. SMH.

Yes, the CDC just "makes up something by using anecdotal information"...[/sarcasm]

[Ben Franklin]

How long was the VN conflict? So, let’s not use that comparison.

November 1, 1955 – April 30, 1975 20 years, and that means we've had almost the same amt of deaths in a very much shorter time frame, in just Florida alone. The Afghanistan war: October 7, 2001 – August 30, 2021 - also 20 years, 2,448 military lives lost.

The Spanish Flu: Between September 1918 and April 1919, approximately 675,000 deaths from the flu occurred in the U.S. alone. Remember, they weren't too far advanced in the medical field.

My question to those who refuse to fight this, as a whole, is why do we have a defense department, to protect us against foreign enemies, when many of us don't believe we need to work together to defeat an unseen enemy here?

[Ben Franklin]

You stats are flawed, what do y9u expect you going get?

OK, if you say so. Maybe you'd like to show how they are wrong! SMH

[pablo cruze]

OK, if you say so. Maybe you'd like to show how they are wrong! SMH
you're my boy BLUE

[JMintzer]

OK, if you say so. Maybe you'd like to show how they are wrong! SMH

I already did that...

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

To compare New York to Florida, especially NYC deifies reasoning.
You have more people crammed into one building in the city than you have in one acre in Florida.
The building I lived in had 96 apartment, that's 96 families not 96 people.
I'm surprised more than people didn't die in N.Y.

I believe that the point was made about the state of New York, not only New York City.
Florida also has crowded cities such as Miami and Jacksonville as crowded as NYC.

How many of your neighbors in your building in NYC were over the age of 65? As has been pointed out, the percentage of the population over 65 is much higher in Florida than in most states. And obviously the most important point is that deaths per 100,000 places Florida tenth in the country.

Not quite the dire situation that the OP is trying to show.

Isn't this a political post without being political. I mean we all pretty much know what's being inferred here.

[Byte1]

November 1, 1955 – April 30, 1975 20 years, and that means we've had almost the same amt of deaths in a very much shorter time frame, in just Florida alone. The Afghanistan war: October 7, 2001 – August 30, 2021 - also 20 years, 2,448 military lives lost.

The Spanish Flu: Between September 1918 and April 1919, approximately 675,000 deaths from the flu occurred in the U.S. alone. Remember, they weren't too far advanced in the medical field.

My question to those who refuse to fight this, as a whole, is why do we have a defense department, to protect us against foreign enemies, when many of us don't believe we need to work together to defeat an unseen enemy here?

That doesn't make much sense. Want to rewrite that? You seem to be equating the idea of the gov fighting foreign enemies with all of us fighting the virus. I guess it makes sense to you.

[SkBlogW]

The Spanish Flu: Between September 1918 and April 1919, approximately 675,000 deaths from the flu occurred in the U.S. alone. Remember, they weren't too far advanced in the medical field.



US Population in 1918 = 103 million

US Population in 2021 = 333 million

I hope you can do the math but am doubtful based on posts in this thread.

[Swoop]

Wow. Throw out some stats and this is what ensued. Amazing. Oh, and the "died with COVID" idea. I love that one. When one wants to deny, just make something up by using anecdotal info. SMH.

No need to “make something up” - watch for yourself…
https://hoiabc.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/

[Road-Runner]

From what I've read, I doubt very seriously Ben Franklin would have been for total government control over it's citizens in the name of 'safety', but if I'm wrong and you can give me specific examples please enlighten me? Otherwise, you may want to consider a different avatar, maybe something more cartoonish (like mine!).

[Ben Franklin]

That doesn't make much sense. Want to rewrite that? You seem to be equating the idea of the gov fighting foreign enemies with all of us fighting the virus. I guess it makes sense to you.

Yes, it does makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe you don't see the virus as an enemy. Why fight one enemy and not a different kind of enemy?

[coffeebean]

I just checked the NYT and it documents 51,240 Florida Covid 19 deaths. The Vietnam war was 10 years long and we lost 58,220 US soldiers. If you look at the average deaths per year, Covid is killing a lot of people. When a virus is widely circulating in a population and causing many infections, the likelihood of the virus mutating increases. The more opportunities a virus has to spread, the more it replicates – and the more opportunities it has to undergo changes. Therefore we need to do all we can to stop the spread that means mask up to stop the spread, get vaccinated to stop the spread, DO YOUR PART to help others stay healthy. There are so many selfish Americans these days who won't do a simple thing such as put on a mask to help keep a child from getting sick or a grocery clerk or a cashier who has to face many people each day. Covid germs start in the nose and mouth, then in the unvaccinated travel quickly to the lungs. If you are vaccinated Covid still goes in your nose and mouth but your body fights it off before it can reach your lungs; however, you can spread the virus. Children under 12 can't get vaccinated, people who are undergoing cancer treatment or have received organ transplants remain at risk. So wear a mask when shopping. It is something simple to do to help others.

I was a huge proponent of universal masking prior to the vaccines. I remain a huge proponent of masking but now for people who are at risk of Covid and who can not receive the vaccine for what ever reason they may have. This includes children who are not eligible for the vaccine because of their age and also people who have medical issues and can not be vaccinated.

These vulnerable people who must be protected need to protect themselves. Yes, that includes children who should mask up when in public if their parents feel the need for them to be protected.

I'm fully vaccinated and at this point, I'm not wearing a mask to protect anyone who can easily protect themselves by simply wearing a protective mask such as an N95 mask or equivalent. I've done my part by being fully vaccinated and will gladly take a booster shot when I am eligible for that. Bring it on!

[coffeebean]

Don't know what the number of votes has to do with your analogy. How about the number of deaths from the flu from 2011-2020 amounting to approximately 500,000 Americans according to the CDC? No masks were ever required or even discussed. No vaccination craze.

That's because any such comparisons are prohibited in this most politically charged society.

Oh wait! Maybe because Americans were never FEARFUL of the flu despite the fact that it kills so many every year.

Has the flu EVER stressed our health care system like Covid has? Just wondering.

[coffeebean]

You actually believe the COVID death toll numbers coming out of China? Seriously?

Agree. No way are China's numbers accurate. No way!

[lkagele]

Wow. Throw out some stats and this is what ensued. Amazing. Oh, and the "died with COVID" idea. I love that one. When one wants to deny, just make something up by using anecdotal info. SMH.

You didn't throw out any stats. You threw out some numbers and insinuated they meant something.

If 'died with COVID' is so funny to you, explain my previous post where a murder/suicide was counted as two COVID deaths.

[lkagele]

Perhaps a course in remedial reading might help? I never mentioned total gov't control, but I did say we need to all fight this enemy. HUGE-AH difference, than full gov't control. It's more along the lines of love your neighbor as yourself.

And if you want to claim conservative status, please know that conservatives aren't for centralized gov't, yet that is what was done in Florida. The Governor centralized Florida's government, by taking away local control. He alone placed himself, as full government controller.

Enjoy the rest of the thread.

Reading all your posts, 'fight this enemy' to you means, 'my way or the highway'.

There is no universal agreement on how to fight COVID.

[lkagele]

I was a huge proponent of universal masking prior to the vaccines. I remain a huge proponent of masking but now for people who are at risk of Covid and who can not receive the vaccine for what ever reason they may have. This includes children who are not eligible for the vaccine because of their age and also people who have medical issues and can not be vaccinated.

These vulnerable people who must be protected need to protect themselves. Yes, that includes children who should mask up when in public if their parents feel the need for them to be protected.

I'm fully vaccinated and at this point, I'm not wearing a mask to protect anyone who can easily protect themselves by simply wearing a protective mask such as an N95 mask or equivalent. I've done my part by being fully vaccinated and will gladly take a booster shot when I am eligible for that. Bring it on!

Masks don't work.

[coffeebean]

If you say you got it at VA then I guess you did , but I’m not seeing it anywhere the only thing I did see is they would start with over 75 which I am and after 6 months which I have passed getting mine through va last on jan 28

I just made an appointment with my PCP for my Moderna booster shot for Sept. 24th. I'm over 65 but under 75.

[coffeebean]

~~~

[coffeebean]

Masks don't work.

N95 masks are protective. They are part of the arsenal of PPE used by health care workers. If those who are unable to be vaccinated can not depend on those protective masks then that is just a horrible outcome for them.

[JMintzer]

I just made an appointment with my PCP for my Moderna booster shot for Sept. 24th. I'm over 65 but under 75.

Why? It's not yet been approved, unless you're immunocompromised...

[JMintzer]

You didn't throw out any stats. You threw out some numbers and insinuated they meant something.

If 'died with COVID' is so funny to you, explain my previous post where a murder/suicide was counted as two COVID deaths.

Yeah, I noticed Ol' Ben Conveniently ignored that post...

[JMintzer]

N95 masks are protective. They are part of the arsenal of PPE used by health care workers. If those who are unable to be vaccinated can not depend on those protective masks then that is just a horrible outcome for them.

Yeah, but most aren't wearing N95 masks...

[Spalumbos62]

Thanks for sharing. I hope that you stay safe (and enjoy the dance).
I got the shot as soon as I could (Janssen) [on Good Friday], no side effects. I continued to stay quarantined for 2 weeks (social distance); but since then I've resumed a "new" (ab)normal routine.

Sure hope people are warned bf they get too close. Should you even go? Sweating and all...concerns me... in fact surprised it's not mandated.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I just made an appointment with my PCP for my Moderna booster shot for Sept. 24th. I'm over 65 but under 75.because I have no health issues , I’ll probably have to wait till first of month , I could go to my primary care person st VA who I only see once a year to stay in system but I don’t want to bother, I have excellent health insurance so I don’t go , I would if I didn’t have great health insurance to go with Medicare , the VA puts out a good product

[Love2Swim]

Oh enough already. Too many people have died, unnecessarily. We have vaccines available, and studies show masks will help end the pandemic. Its that simple. Smarten up, get vaccinated, and wear a friggin mask when you need to.

[Byte1]

Oh enough already. Too many people have died, unnecessarily. We have vaccines available, and studies show masks will help end the pandemic. Its that simple. Smarten up, get vaccinated, and wear a friggin mask when you need to.

Sorry, but I have no intention of wearing a mask. Oh, you said "when you need to." I won't need to. If you don't trust your vaccination, you certainly shouldn't trust a cloth or paper mask. But that is just my opinion.
We have a lot of people in the World so losing a few million won't make much difference. Won't even stop global climate change...:clap2:

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Has the flu EVER stressed our health care system like Covid has? Just wondering.

The plague did. The flu did not.

And here's some really nifty news:

COVID-19, all strains from beginning in late 2019 til now, have caused or contributed to the death of more people who died from the BIG Spanish influenza (or complications of the Spanish flu) epidemic of 1918.

By "contributed to" and "complications of" I mean - people who would have lived longer, with a reasonable quality of life, but because of the illness, developed or exacerbated pre-existing medical conditions such that they ended up dead anyway.

So being 30 pounds overweight wouldn't have killed them, 20 years later. But being 30 pounds overweight AND having COVID-19, was the one-two punch that got them.

Having asthma wouldn't have killed them. But the combination of having asthma and getting COVID put them into a perpetual asthma attack that they were unable to get out of, and they died.

Pre-existing conditions are not usually deadly in and of themselves. But combined with a flu or virus, can be deadly. They would NOT have died, if they had NOT contracted the flu or virus. The virus isn't the actual thing that killed them. But it was the trigger, the thing that caused "death" to suddenly become a eventual result.

[nick demis]

I can't believe that the moderator is continuing to allow this liberal political post. I guess only conservative posts get banned.

[Trayderjoe]

Has the flu EVER stressed our health care system like Covid has? Just wondering.

The plague did. The flu did not.

And here's some really nifty news:

COVID-19, all strains from beginning in late 2019 til now, have caused or contributed to the death of more people who died from the BIG Spanish influenza (or complications of the Spanish flu) epidemic of 1918.

So the flu pandemic in 1918 did NOT stress the health care system at the time like Covid has done? I would love to see the documented basis for that assertion, when you compare the medical care available then versus now, and that the flu pandemic of 1918 killed 1 in every 150 people versus Covid which has killed 1 in 500. Here is a link to an article on CNBC (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/20/covid-is-americas-deadliest-pandemic-as-us-fatalities-near-1918-flu-estimates.html?&qsearchterm=berkeley%20Lovelace%20Jr) that was published today with that data. Now I am going to undercut my own use of the data with this article as a reference, although the numbers cited from the article are consistent with what I have read in the past. Why am I undercutting the reference? The article was written by a Berkeley Lovelace Jr. and is entitled "Covid is officially America’s deadliest pandemic as U.S. fatalities surpass 1918 flu estimates". As you will see, the article title and the facts don't match up.

Reading through the article and not just the headline the author includes: "In 1918, for example, the U.S. population was less than a third of today’s with an estimated 103 million people living in America just before the roaring 1920s. Today, there are nearly 330 million people living in the U.S. That means the 1918 flu killed about 1 in every 150 Americans, compared with 1 in 500 who have died from Covid so far."

A pandemic which, by the author's own data, killed more than 3 times as many people (based upon the population size) was less deadly than Covid? So no, this is not the "deadliest pandemic" but it appears that the headline was more important than the facts. Had the title indicated that more people died than the Spanish flu, that would have been accurate based upon the presented data.

[coffeebean]

Why? It's not yet been approved, unless you're immunocompromised...

I'm not immune compromised but hasn't the booster been approved for those over 65? Now I'm starting to reconsider why my PCP office made an appointment for me.

[coffeebean]

Yeah, but most aren't wearing N95 masks...

Let me put it this way.........if it were me who is not able to be vaccinated, you can bet I would be wearing an N95 mask when out and about in public. I guess not everyone who is not able to be vaccinated for medical reasons feels the need to protect themselves with a protective mask, so that is on them.

[Wyseguy]

Hopefully people that near death would get vaccinated. The problem is healthy people get Covid, give it to other people, and move on. This should be a PUBLIC HEALTH issue and not a political issue. Get the shot unless a real doctor says you shouldn't and let government pay that doctor for that opinion.

But the science shows that vaccinated carry similar viral loads to the non vaccinated. Worry about yourself.

[Wyseguy]

Study now shows that 50% of "Hospitalized" covid cases are actually mis identified. 50% of the number being put out are patients, many asymptomatic, who are in the hospital for something different (ie appendix).

[coffeebean]

The plague did. The flu did not.

And here's some really nifty news:

COVID-19, all strains from beginning in late 2019 til now, have caused or contributed to the death of more people who died from the BIG Spanish influenza (or complications of the Spanish flu) epidemic of 1918.

By "contributed to" and "complications of" I mean - people who would have lived longer, with a reasonable quality of life, but because of the illness, developed or exacerbated pre-existing medical conditions such that they ended up dead anyway.

So being 30 pounds overweight wouldn't have killed them, 20 years later. But being 30 pounds overweight AND having COVID-19, was the one-two punch that got them.

Having asthma wouldn't have killed them. But the combination of having asthma and getting COVID put them into a perpetual asthma attack that they were unable to get out of, and they died.

Pre-existing conditions are not usually deadly in and of themselves. But combined with a flu or virus, can be deadly. They would NOT have died, if they had NOT contracted the flu or virus. The virus isn't the actual thing that killed them. But it was the trigger, the thing that caused "death" to suddenly become a eventual result.

This is so very true. Why is it that there are people who continually question and debate the number of deaths from or with Covid? I have said all along that people can live a long and happy life with a comorbidity while being treated with medication. Give them Covid along with the same comorbidity and that could very well cause their demise. Did they die of Covid or with Covid? Dying "with" Covid in that case should add to the total number of Covid deaths, IMHO.

Another example.......dying in a car accident that was not survivable while being positive for Covid should not add to the Covid death numbers. Again, my opinion.

[coffeebean]

I can't believe that the moderator is continuing to allow this liberal political post. I guess only conservative posts get banned.

I think you mean "thread", not post. A thread is the entire discussion. A post is a single response in the thread.

[coffeebean]

I'm not immune compromised but hasn't the booster been approved for those over 65? Now I'm starting to reconsider why my PCP office made an appointment for me.

I may be cancelling my appointment for the booster. I'm waiting to hear from my PCP.

[JMintzer]

Study now shows that 50% of "Hospitalized" covid cases are actually mis identified. 50% of the number being put out are patients, many asymptomatic, who are in the hospital for something different (ie appendix).

The press reporting something incorrectly? NO WAY!

[JMintzer]

This is so very true. Why is it that there are people who continually question and debate the number of deaths from or with Covid? I have said all along that people can live a long and happy life with a comorbidity while being treated with medication. Give them Covid along with the same comorbidity and that could very well cause their demise. Did they die of Covid or with Covid? Dying "with" Covid in that case should add to the total number of Covid deaths, IMHO.

Most are talking about things like an MI, or hospice patients, who were sent there to die...

And those have already added to the total # of Covid deaths...

Another example.......dying in a car accident that was not survivable while being positive for Covid should not add to the Covid death numbers. Again, my opinion.

But they do...

[Aloha1]

You know this how?

Because the Press Secretary, Jen Psaki, admitted so just 2 days ago. It was on the news.

[Ben Franklin]

It didn't start out as a political post, but lots of people made it so. I especially loved those who tried to tell us that 51,240 deaths isn't 51,240 DEATHS when you compare it to precentages of something else. Oh, well, best to keep this shut down.

[JMintzer]

Because the Press Secretary, Jen Psaki, admitted so just 2 days ago. It was on the news.

Well, in that case, it must be true...

[Aloha1]

Wow. Throw out some stats and this is what ensued. Amazing. Oh, and the "died with COVID" idea. I love that one. When one wants to deny, just make something up by using anecdotal info. SMH.

So that doesn't fit your world view, eh?

[Aloha1]

Well, in that case, it must be true...

She slipped up as she rarely speaks the truth.

[John_W]

I had my Moderna booster two weeks ago at the VA in Mulberry, no side effects at all. I also got my flu shot at Walgreens, along with the two Moderna shots back in Feb and March at Publix, I feel safe.

[TimeForChange]

In Vietnam, we lost 58,220 soldiers. Deaths of Floridians from COVID was recorded a week ago, at 51,240. Gov. DeSantis won the governorship by only 32,463 votes. So that's 18,777 more people have died from COVID than the number of voters he won by. Plus we're only 7,000 away from surpassing the total number of US miliarty killed in Vietnam.

Gotta love that personal choice agenda, especially when we're fighting an unseen enemy, known as COVID. Plus, I heard that a General Willey Coyote made a call to Moderna AND Pfizer, the enemy of our enemy...

As a Vietnam veteran (disabled) I think there is not a comparison. That was a seven or eight year war. Most there who were in jungle combat were drafted and had no choice but to go. The average age I think was 18.5 years. The Chinese virus deaths may or may not be reported correctly and many had physical heath issues already. In Vietnam millions were wounded, lost limbs and scared mentally for life at a very young age. Many today are dying from the spraying of Agent Orange and other chemicals.

[MDLNB]

I had my Moderna booster two weeks ago at the VA in Mulberry, no side effects at all. I also got my flu shot at Walgreens, along with the two Moderna shots back in Feb and March at Publix, I feel safe.


If you got your booster at the VA, why didn't you get your flu shot there also? Just curious. I am kind of surprised that the VA would give a Moderna IF it has not been approved as a booster yet. Maybe they were given different information than the public.

[MDLNB]

Let me put it this way.........if it were me who is not able to be vaccinated, you can bet I would be wearing an N95 mask when out and about in public. I guess not everyone who is not able to be vaccinated for medical reasons feels the need to protect themselves with a protective mask, so that is on them.


Wait, didn't you say earlier that one MUST wear the mask to protect OTHERS from the virus?

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

As a Vietnam veteran (disabled) I think there is not a comparison. That was a seven or eight year war. Most there who were in jungle combat were drafted and had no choice but to go. The average age I think was 18.5 years. The Chinese virus deaths may or may not be reported correctly and many had physical heath issues already. In Vietnam millions were wounded, lost limbs and scared mentally for life at a very young age. Many today are dying from the spraying of Agent Orange and other chemicals. out of 2.7 million who served the war doesn’t need to be made any worse then it already was

[John_W]

If you got your booster at the VA, why didn't you get your flu shot there also? Just curious. I am kind of surprised that the VA would give a Moderna IF it has not been approved as a booster yet. Maybe they were given different information than the public.

I got my booster by appointment at 11:00 am and the flu shots are only given 1:30 to 3:30 T-W-T, I didn't feel like hanging around for two hours. When I mentioned coming back after lunch, they said to wait a day before getting a flu shot.

To go to the VA is 11 miles up Buena Vista from my house, about 35 minutes each way. I can go to Walgreens with no appointment, usually I can get one right away without much wait. When I come home from MVP a few days a week, I go right by the Walgreens at Pinellas.

[MDLNB]

I got my booster by appointment at 11:00 am and the flu shots are only given 1:30 to 3:30 T-W-T, I didn't feel like hanging around for two hours. When I mentioned coming back after lunch, they said to wait a day before getting a flu shot.

To go to the VA is 11 miles up Buena Vista from my house, about 35 minutes each way. I can go to Walgreens with no appointment, usually I can get one right away without much wait. When I come home from MVP a few days a week, I go right by the Walgreens at Pinellas.


Ah, that makes sense. :thumbup:

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Did they give a reason for using moderna when it’s not approved

[MDLNB]

As a Vietnam veteran (disabled) I think there is not a comparison. That was a seven or eight year war. Most there who were in jungle combat were drafted and had no choice but to go. The average age I think was 18.5 years. The Chinese virus deaths may or may not be reported correctly and many had physical heath issues already. In Vietnam millions were wounded, lost limbs and scared mentally for life at a very young age. Many today are dying from the spraying of Agent Orange and other chemicals.
.......AND, over 50,000 that committed suicide.

[Reiver]

O.P. needs to adjust his comparison..
A 1975 US Senate subcommittee estimated around 1.4 million civilian casualties in South Vietnam because of the war, including 415,000 deaths.

[Reiver]

...

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

He wasn’t talking about civilian deaths and having been in that war starting with the French 1st parachute battalion of the French Foreign Legion in 1954 and multiple years i( I’m American) first in army then a civilian in Vietnam , Cambodian and Laos I can tell you that you could probably double that civilian body count

[John_W]

Did they give a reason for using moderna when it’s not approved

No, I got a letter about 3 weeks and it said the booster shots were available for those who qualify. I called them and got appointment the next week. I guess the danger of the shot is outweighed by the danger of catching COVID 19.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

I wasn’t criticizing I was just asking what reason they had to use it when it’s not approved I got my Pfizer Saturday after I came back with shot cards but the VA in Gainesville sent me an email today asking if I wanted the booster , I had received my 2 shots up there in January

[JMintzer]

If you got your booster at the VA, why didn't you get your flu shot there also? Just curious. I am kind of surprised that the VA would give a Moderna IF it has not been approved as a booster yet. Maybe they were given different information than the public.

They were instructed to do so... From those up the food chain...

[Luggage]

as some one who used t owork in YC . I enjoy youtube videos , 6/7/8th avenues used to be vibrant places with store keeped paying hundreds of thousands in rent.

Saw a recent video on Manhatan and it was like newark , nj after the riots ! ... I wonder how many shopkeepers commited suicide in NY ???

I'd take our health concerns vs NY anyday to keep businesses up and running.

Use common sense . wear a mask and don't get to close to me!

statistics are almost meaningless , unless you compare apples to apples , age brackets and pre existing conditions..!!!!!!!!!


--------------------------------------

Yet NY, with TWO million less people has more deaths...

Oh, and btw, the NYT says it's significantly less than your stated # @ 51K (as of 18 hrs ago...)

[MDLNB]

as some one who used t owork in YC . I enjoy youtube videos , 6/7/8th avenues used to be vibrant places with store keeped paying hundreds of thousands in rent.

Saw a recent video on Manhatan and it was like newark , nj after the riots ! ... I wonder how many shopkeepers commited suicide in NY ???

I'd take our health concerns vs NY anyday to keep businesses up and running.

Use common sense . wear a mask and don't get to close to me!

statistics are almost meaningless , unless you compare apples to apples , age brackets and pre existing conditions..!!!!!!!!!


--------------------------------------


I don't wear a mask and if you don't want me near you then maintain your distance FROM me. It's not my responsibility to protect strangers from some invisible menace.

[coffeebean]

I don't wear a mask and if you don't want me near you then maintain your distance FROM me. It's not my responsibility to protect strangers from some invisible menace.

There are times when it is not easy to maintain that distance. I have had people stand very close to me as I'm waiting on line for the register at Publix. Early on in the pandemic, I would keep my shopping cart behind me to use as a barrier. I will never forget, one guy reached over my cart to tap me on the shoulder to ask me a question. I guess he didn't see anything wrong with that.

See what I mean?

[JMintzer]

There are times when it is not easy to maintain that distance. I have had people stand very close to me as I'm waiting on line for the register at Publix. Early on in the pandemic, I would keep my shopping cart behind me to use as a barrier. I will never forget, one guy reached over my cart to tap me on the shoulder to ask me a question. I guess he didn't see anything wrong with that.

See what I mean?

https://theawesomedaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/but-did-you-die-feat-1.jpg

[Nick B]

Sorry but I have to ask. Where are they sending all the illegals? Where? Why won't they tell Americans where they have placed all these mostly untested, unvaccinated illegals?
Hopefully the Villages so you folks can get some decent service when you eat out. Call your senator and demand it cause Americans don't want to work.

[Nick B]

as some one who used t owork in YC . I enjoy youtube videos , 6/7/8th avenues used to be vibrant places with store keeped paying hundreds of thousands in rent.

Saw a recent video on Manhatan and it was like newark , nj after the riots ! ... I wonder how many shopkeepers commited suicide in NY ???

I'd take our health concerns vs NY anyday to keep businesses up and running.

Use common sense . wear a mask and don't get to close to me!

statistics are almost meaningless , unless you compare apples to apples , age brackets and pre existing conditions..!!!!!!!!!


--------------------------------------
Commit suicide because they lost money ? That's some sad thinking.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Get your booster when you can , if you felt protected after the first 2 shots you’ll feel bulletproof after the booster I have. FYI I had no side effects and I’m 82

[JMintzer]

Commit suicide because they lost money ? That's some sad thinking.

They lost EVERYTHING...

[Wyseguy]

Two items to consider:

1) Florida has been an open state far longer than many other states
2) Florida, on a percentage of population basis, has one of the largest for senior citizens

Looking at the rate of death (looking only at the number of cases is deceiving as it does not account for population size) involving Covid as of yesterday (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/) we see that per 100,000 people:

Mississippi: 308
New Jersey: 306
Louisiana: 288
New York: 281
Massachusetts: 267

Florida sits 10th at: 237

So then either the states with the top five highest rates states of death involving Covid were even more supportive of a personal choice agenda than Florida, or could it be that lockdowns and less personal choice are statistically NOT more effective in reducing death rates involving Covid?

Stop with the facts. Don't you know this is a pandemic, My neighbor personally knows 28,000 people who died from the Pandemic. Anyone travelling to Florida should buy a cemetery plot as well. The only responsible thing to do is to leave Florida and move to NY where they take this Pandemic much more seriously (dare we dream). Doesn't matter they are dropping quickly in NY, their lockdowns, forced vaccines, preventing close to 70% of people of color from going to a restaurant, shows they are caring non white supremacist humanitarians. The President has told us 200 million people in Delaware alone have died. Obey Fauci. Like he said yesterday, taking away someone's ability to shop, have a job, work and provide food for their family, will lead to people "willingly" getting the jab (I almost did not get it out).

[Wyseguy]

Commit suicide because they lost money ? That's some sad thinking.

People are committing suicide because they can not pay for their children's food. Unable to pay for their health care, a roof over their head. All may not understand it, but these things mean something to some.

[JMintzer]

The "Spokesperson" tells us these illegals being send throughout the country are only here for a short while. Covid knows that and will not spread to others.

The Spokesperson"?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0d/34/08/0d34089fa7f0af5e78a6f510c236b0e8.png

[Moderator]

This thread has caused far too much work for the moderators. It is now closed.