TESLA battery fires continue

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Tesla Model S Catches Fire at Tesla Service Center in Marietta, Georgia - autoevolution (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-model-s-catches-fire-at-tesla-service-center-in-marietta-georgia-170574.html)

not something I want in my garage

[Bay Kid]

Not a fan of battery carts either.

[FenneyGuy]

I would never, ever buy a Tesla.

[txfan]

No problems with either and have both EV car and golf carts. Wouldn’t think of owning gas-powered again.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

There was one house fire within the last year, on the tv news site, when the owners were not home, started in the garage, and the only item which burned was the golf cart. Did not say whether it was gas or electric, but generally gas explodes, and batteries burn. . .
was put out quickly thankfully

good luck to those with batteries. .

[GrumpyOldMan]

round and round we go...

[B-flat]

I would never, ever buy a Tesla.

Plus one!

[Byte1]

The older golf carts use lead acid batteries that do not usually burn. The new electric carts are using lithium batteries like the cars and if they are over charged or get overheated, they will burn VERY hot. It's not fun trying to put out a lithium fire and by the time you get it put out, you will likely have nothing left but a blob of molten metal.

[Dana1963]

The older golf carts use dry cell batteries that do not usually burn. The new electric carts are using lithium batteries like the cars and if they are over charged or get overheated, they will burn VERY hot. It's not fun trying to put out a lithium fire and by the time you get it put out, you will likely have nothing left but a blob of molten metal.
Older golf cards did not use Dry Cell either Lead Acid or AGM (Gel Cell)

[Brad-tv]

Yea regular internal combustible engines never go on fire you better stay away from electric vehicles!!

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Reported vehicle explosion at Calverton runway causes five cars to catch fire: cops - RiverheadLOCAL (https://riverheadlocal.com/2021/09/30/reported-vehicle-explosion-at-calverton-runway-causes-five-cars-to-catch-fire-cops/)

and another,

[CoachKandSportsguy]

and nnother tonight. .

https://twitter.com/BaltCoVolFire/status/1443735421771526145

[GrumpyOldMan]

and nnother tonight. .

https://twitter.com/BaltCoVolFire/status/1443735421771526145

And to be fair would you post a link to stories about the 150 ICE cars that catch fire every day? Probably not huh - that is not really news.

More Than 150 Gas Car Fires Per Day — Can We Please Get Serious About Electric Car Battery Fires? | CleanTechnica (https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/03/500-gas-car-fires-per-day-can-we-please-get-serious-about-electric-car-battery-fires/)

[thevillages2013]

And to be fair would you post a link to stories about the 150 ICE cars that catch fire every day? Probably not huh - that is not really news.

More Than 150 Gas Car Fires Per Day — Can We Please Get Serious About Electric Car Battery Fires? | CleanTechnica (https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/03/500-gas-car-fires-per-day-can-we-please-get-serious-about-electric-car-battery-fires/)
Ok BUT the majority of the ICE (internal combustion engine) fires are the result of an accident but the Tesla fires happen generally with the car parked somewhere unattended maybe charging or maybe not. That’s the damn scary part

[villageuser]

There was one house fire within the last year, on the tv news site, when the owners were not home, started in the garage, and the only item which burned was the golf cart. Did not say whether it was gas or electric, but generally gas explodes, and batteries burn. . .
was put out quickly thankfully

good luck to those with batteries. .

Which is why they’re telling people not to charge the cars overnight in a closed garage. The cars should be unplugged prior to or when reaching full charge, and best done in open air. I personally won’t get a Tesla unless its workmanship is improved but I am eyeing the EV cars coming up next year. I can’t wait to get one.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

And to be fair would you post a link to stories about the 150 ICE cars that catch fire every day? Probably not huh - that is not really news.

More Than 150 Gas Car Fires Per Day — Can We Please Get Serious About Electric Car Battery Fires? | CleanTechnica (https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/03/500-gas-car-fires-per-day-can-we-please-get-serious-about-electric-car-battery-fires/)

lets talk a relative number, electric fires per number of registered electrical vehicles, and the same for gas fires per number of registered gas vehicles. . . then do fires per teslas versus fires per other EV

its the biggest obstacle to electric cars, other than the grid will need to continue to be upgraded. . as well as increased taxes for increased fire fighting equipment and increased insurance rates for the increase in the number of totaled cars per accident.

but sure, there are ICE fires which can be put out quickly

[merrymini]

Have a tesla 3 and love it. Have an electric golf cart too, for the last several years, and love that too. Thinking of selling the tesla to make some money. They are harder to get now and selling at a premium. Will be the first time in my life that I get more for a automobile then I paid for it!

[txfan]

Plus one!

Minus one!

[mrf0151]

No problems with either and have both EV car and golf carts. Wouldn’t think of owning gas-powered again.
For those that own Lithium battery golf carts and Electric cars (Tesla etc.) Hold on to your wallet when it is time to replace the battery pack. And for those that say," well I will sell it before I need to replace the battery pack," well who in their right mind will want to buy it??

[CosmicTrucker]

and nnother tonight. .

https://twitter.com/BaltCoVolFire/status/1443735421771526145

So, you just cherry picked two reports of Tesla fires, but failed to connect the fact that the first car was a flooded car sitting in a insurance collection zone and the other was involved in an accident.

[jarodrig]

So, you just cherry picked two reports of Tesla fires, but failed to connect the fact that the first car was a flooded car sitting in a insurance collection zone and the other was involved in an accident.

Now wait !!! Why confuse the readers with the facts ??? LOL 😂

[Dana1963]

For those that own Lithium battery golf carts and Electric cars (Tesla etc.) Hold on to your wallet when it is time to replace the battery pack. And for those that say," well I will sell it before I need to replace the battery pack," well who in their right mind will want to buy it??
The same was said for Prius introduces 1997. Another reference for viewing is “Who Killed the Electric Car?” 2006 documentary

[Dana1963]

Tesla Model S Catches Fire at Tesla Service Center in Marietta, Georgia - autoevolution (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-model-s-catches-fire-at-tesla-service-center-in-marietta-georgia-170574.html)

not something I want in my garage
As a PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT, the Space Station is in JEOPARDY “ In its final configuration, the space station now has three lithium-ion batteries for each channel, each with a service life lasting nearly 10 years. With eight channels, 24 lithium-ion batteries on board replaced 48 nickel-hydrogen batteries.” July 2021.

[GrumpyOldMan]

For those that own Lithium battery golf carts and Electric cars (Tesla etc.) Hold on to your wallet when it is time to replace the battery pack. And for those that say," well I will sell it before I need to replace the battery pack," well who in their right mind will want to buy it??

The cost over time is less than the maintenance on an ICE. So, yes, more cost when buying or replacing, but the total cost of ownershipis less - at this point - it is expected to get better as time goes on.

[GrumpyOldMan]

lets talk a relative number, electric fires per number of registered electrical vehicles, and the same for gas fires per number of registered gas vehicles. . . then do fires per teslas versus fires per other EV

its the biggest obstacle to electric cars, other than the grid will need to continue to be upgraded. . as well as increased taxes for increased fire fighting equipment and increased insurance rates for the increase in the number of totaled cars per accident.

but sure, there are ICE fires which can be put out quickly

Okay, let's do it, oh, you meant me, you want ME to prove your point? I don't do that. If you have a point and want to make it, I will be glad to read and consider your position.

[Nucky]

I’ll still take my chances with the Cybertruck. Can’t wait!

[OhioBuckeye]

Tesla Model S Catches Fire at Tesla Service Center in Marietta, Georgia - autoevolution (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-model-s-catches-fire-at-tesla-service-center-in-marietta-georgia-170574.html)

not something I want in my garage

Actually I’m not sold on ANY electric car. I say this & some people think I’m being paranoid. I worked at Fo. Mo. Co. for 38 yrs. & I know the expense of owning one so I don’t even make an attempt to give my reasons. So if anybody wants one, go for it! I’m sure some people will love them.

[Two Bills]

Compared to ICE cars, electric are barely out of development stage.
Horsemen were saying ICE would never take over from 4 legs.
Look how that turned out.
Knock them as you will.
They are the future!

[Byte1]

Older golf cards did not use Dry Cell either Lead Acid or AGM (Gel Cell)

My bad. You are correct and I do not know why I made that mistake. They are Deep Cycle batteries, is what I meant.

[Byte1]

Ok, I keep hearing folks say "the batteries will get better in a few years." Isn't that the point? They AREN'T good now. Even if the Lithium batteries last ten years, they constantly get weaker as each month/year goes by. Who wants to take a trip to another state in an electric car? Go a hundred or so miles and have to stop for four hours or more to charge the car? A normally 8 hour trip will take you a couple days to complete. If I wanted to take that much time, I could use a horse.
Over charge the batteries and start a dangerous fire. Cost of replacing the batteries, might as well purchase a new car. If they ever outlaw gas propelled cars, I will go to leasing the car. Right now, I am getting rid of my battery powered golf cart and going to a gas fueled cart because it costs $800 to replace the batteries. Sure, lithium will last ten years but don't overheat it or you might burn down your home.
Don't try to sell the battery powered car until you can get 800-1000 miles per charge and make it safe from overcharging/over heating. Then get the price down to a price that the average earner can afford.
Like anyone wants to sit at a charging station for four hours!

[GrumpyOldMan]

Ok, I keep hearing folks say "the batteries will get better in a few years." Isn't that the point? They AREN'T good now. Even if the Lithium batteries last ten years, they constantly get weaker as each month/year goes by. Who wants to take a trip to another state in an electric car? Go a hundred or so miles and have to stop for four hours or more to charge the car? A normally 8 hour trip will take you a couple days to complete. If I wanted to take that much time, I could use a horse.
Over charge the batteries and start a dangerous fire. Cost of replacing the batteries, might as well purchase a new car. If they ever outlaw gas propelled cars, I will go to leasing the car. Right now, I am getting rid of my battery powered golf cart and going to a gas fueled cart because it costs $800 to replace the batteries. Sure, lithium will last ten years but don't overheat it or you might burn down your home.
Don't try to sell the battery powered car until you can get 800-1000 miles per charge and make it safe from overcharging/over heating. Then get the price down to a price that the average earner can afford.
Like anyone wants to sit at a charging station for four hours!

Uh, what? Seriously, I think you slept through the past 5 years. You don't stop and charge for 4 hours anymore - 20 or 30 minutes, long enough to pee and get a soda. Driving 8 hours straight without a break is not safe.

Your 8-hour trip is maybe 9 hours worst case.

You don't overcharge batteries, that is not up to you anymore, it is up to the built-in charger.

There is a reason almost every (including exotic expensive makers) car manufacturer has announced plans to convert to, to include EVs in their line up.

[Two Bills]

Uh, what? Seriously, I think you slept through the past 5 years. You don't stop and charge for 4 hours anymore - 20 or 30 minutes, long enough to pee and get a soda. Driving 8 hours straight without a break is not safe.

Your 8-hour trip is maybe 9 hours worst case.

You don't overcharge batteries, that is not up to you anymore, it is up to the built-in charger.

There is a reason almost every (including exotic expensive makers) car manufacturer has announced plans to convert to, to include EVs in their line up.

...........and most are 300+ miles per charge.

[GrumpyOldMan]

...........and most are 300+ miles per charge.

Yes, which is around 5 to 6 hours without a break.

[Dana1963]

If you're so concerned about the electrical grid being upgraded then maybe we should stop building homes in our regional.

[JMintzer]

If you're so concerned about the electrical grid being upgraded then maybe we should stop building homes in our regional.

There is a huge difference between the power draw of a typical single family home and the much higher draw of a Tesla 240 Volt outlet...

[Diver Man]

I have been working in automotive engineering for over 35 years, and with EV cars for the past 8 years. I'm not drinking the "kool-aid " when it comes to EV's. GM has recently released that they do not want you to charge your Bolt EV unintended, and not in a garage, due to recent fires. The fact is , that Tesla makes more money selling carb credits to other manufacturers, and their technology. The other issue with EV's is that the stated range is under perfect conditions, you lose a lot of range in cold weather or very hot weather, due to keeping the battery's heated or cooled, which uses energy,. The battery cost replacement in a bolt t is 8000 dollars. The trucks are another story, when you tow something behind your truck, you lose half your range, and the fact that you need to disconnect your camper, trailer, etc. To charge is not convenient. FMVSS requirements, like defrost, and heat, and other energy hogging issues, also cut down the range. I have driven EV's around a lot of the country, and seldom see the range listed. I know you have regine of the battery's when braking or going down hills, but this does not add a lot of range.We had a storm roll thru the other day, lost power for 4 days, no way of charging your EV at home.I know that EV's are the future, but I will always have a ICE vehicle as my primary driver.

[coralway]

An excellent investment since July 2019

[spd2918]

I will be interested in electric cars when they build more nuke plants to power them. Burning coal to power "green" cars is beyond stupid.

And don't get me started on the carbon credits scam or giving taxpayer funds to purchase luxury cars.

[biker1]

There are currently only two nuclear reactors under construction in the US. I don't see it as growth industry, unfortunately. The percentage of power generated by coal has been dropping partly because natural gas is a better deal. Currently in the US, 40% of electric power comes from natural gas, 20% from coal, 20% from nuclear, and 20% for renewables (wind, hydro, solar). The percentage from coal will probably continue to drop.

Regarding subsides to car buyers, the Government likes to pick winners and losers. There are also subsides for solar panels, almost all of which come from Asia.

I will be interested in electric cars when they build more nuke plants to power them. Burning coal to power "green" cars is beyond stupid.

And don't get me started on the carbon credits scam or giving taxpayer funds to purchase luxury cars.

[dtennent]

I have never seen a story about a horse spontaneously combusting. Come to think of it, they don't require any electricity either. Wow, now if we could only find horse drawn golf carts...

[JMintzer]

I have never seen a story about a horse spontaneously combusting. Come to think of it, they don't require any electricity either. Wow, now if we could only find horse drawn golf carts...

But there is quite a bit of Methane produced... :icon_wink:

[spd2918]

I should have said traditional fossil fuels instead of coal, as natural gas is not green either. In Florida coal and natural gas account for about two thirds of our electrical power.

Nuclear energy is the cleanest power currently available.

[biker1]

No, in Florida it is about 80% for natural gas and coal - mostly natural gas. There is little nuclear power in Florida, about 12%. There is also not much renewable - less than 5%. Except for a couple of reactors being built in GA, nuclear appears to have no future in the US. While that could change, I would not count on it.

When electricity is produced by coal and gas, electric cars are much more efficient than gas cars in terms of the amount of energy consumed. Why is this? The generation of electricity in power plants is pretty efficient and transmission losses are small because of the high voltages used. Electric motors are typically 95% efficient in converting electricity to motion. There are some small losses involved in recharging batteries. Gas cars are only about 30% efficient in converting the energy in gasoline to motion. Electric cars take more energy to manufacture but recoup it quickly.

I should have said traditional fossil fuels instead of coal, as natural gas is not green either. In Florida coal and natural gas account for about two thirds of our electrical power.

Nuclear energy is the cleanest power currently available.

[spd2918]

No, in Florida it is about 80% for natural gas and coal - mostly natural gas. There is little nuclear power in Florida, about 12%. There is also not much renewable - less than 5%. Except for a couple of reactors being built in GA, nuclear appears to have no future in the US. While that could change, I would not count on it.

When electricity is produced by coal and gas, electric cars are much more efficient than gas cars in terms of the amount of energy consumed. Why is this? The generation of electricity in power plants is pretty efficient and transmission losses are small because of the high voltages used. Electric motors are typically 95% efficient in converting electricity to motion. There are some small losses involved in recharging batteries. Gas cars are only about 30% efficient in converting the energy in gasoline to motion. Electric cars take more energy to manufacture but recoup it quickly.

I'm not sure what your point is, as sources give different percentages from different studies and time spans. All sources show natural gas as the main current source of electricity and most show coal as the second. Electric car champions never want to talk about that.

Electricity is mainly produced from fossil fuels, thus electric cars are mainly fossil fuel burners that are not green. Add to that the environmental cost of strip mining for battery materials and you have an argument that electric cars are more damaging than modern ICE cars.

My point about nuclear energy (again, in case people missed it):
Electric cars make environmental sense when this country realizes nuke power is the best option for power sources.

[biker1]

OK, I'll tell you what my point is: your numbers were wrong. I gave you the current numbers. And I stated that most electricity was generate by natural gas. Go reread my post.

Yes, electricity, especially in Florida, is mainly produced by fossil fuels. Fossil fuels are used to generate most of the electricity in the US. That is pretty clear. The point is that the total energy use by electric cars is much less than gas cars. Again, the energy use by electrics is less than gas cars since the generation, transmission, and use of electricity by electric motors is much more efficient than gas cars. Nothing is green. Virtually everything is manufactured using electricity generated from fossil fuels and requires natural resources mined from the ground. It is a matter of which technology uses less total energy. Buy an electric car or don't - nobody cares what you do.

You can stop talking about nuclear. It has no future in this country. And your comment about when electric cars make environmental sense is your opinion and most definitely not fact.


I'm not sure what your point is, as sources give different percentages from different studies and time spans. All sources show natural gas as the main current source of electricity and most show coal as the second. Electric car champions never want to talk about that.

Electricity is mainly produced from fossil fuels, thus electric cars are mainly fossil fuel burners that are not green. Add to that the environmental cost of strip mining for battery materials and you have an argument that electric cars are more damaging than modern ICE cars.

My point about nuclear energy (again, in case people missed it):
Electric cars make environmental sense when this country realizes nuke power is the best option for power sources.

[spd2918]

My numbers and your numbers were sourced from different studies and neither is 100% current (as I posted). Both show electric cars run on fossil fuels. So lets stop calling them zero emissions.

Nuclear power has a future when people recognize how clean it is.

[JMintzer]

I'm not sure what your point is, as sources give different percentages from different studies and time spans. All sources show natural gas as the main current source of electricity and most show coal as the second. Electric car champions never want to talk about that.

Electricity is mainly produced from fossil fuels, thus electric cars are mainly fossil fuel burners that are not green. Add to that the environmental cost of strip mining for battery materials and you have an argument that electric cars are more damaging than modern ICE cars.

My point about nuclear energy (again, in case people missed it):
Electric cars make environmental sense when this country realizes nuke power is the best option for power sources.

Problem is, whenever you mention Nuclear, people think of "The China Syndrome"...

Or The disaster in Japan... Or how to get rid of the spent rods...

What they don't realize is that the newer Generation 4 Reactors are much safer, much more efficient, can use the old spent rods for fuel and the waste only lasts a hundred or so years, rather than millennia, like the older reactors...

[TSO/ISPF]

Problem is, whenever you mention Nuclear, people think of "The China Syndrome"...

Or The disaster in Japan... Or how to get rid of the spent rods...

What they don't realize is that the newer Generation 4 Reactors are much safer, much more efficient, can use the old spent rods for fuel and the waste only lasts a hundred or so years, rather than millennia, like the older reactors...

Are there operational power plants at that level ?

[biker1]

Except mine are correct. Nobody called electric cars "zero emissions". Where did you make that up from? What I did say, if you go back and reread my post, is that electric cars use less total energy than gas cars.

Nuclear has no future in this country. You can try to delude yourself but that is the fact. Feel free to argue whatever you feel like with someone else. This is starting to sound like SJW (that would be you) v. Ben Shapiro.

My numbers and your numbers were sourced from different studies and neither is 100% current (as I posted). Both show electric cars run on fossil fuels. So lets stop calling them zero emissions.

Nuclear power has a future when people recognize how clean it is.

[JMintzer]

Are there operational power plants at that level ?

Not yet. But Rotosam (sp?) in Russia just broke ground on one this Summer...

[biker1]

Most of the arguments against nuclear have little basis in fact but the reality is that nuclear has become a bad word. Germany is in the process of sunsetting all of it's nuclear plants. Even France, which generates over 70% of it's electricity from nuclear, will be reducing it's reliance on nuclear power to 50% over the next 15 years. I don't see the trend reversing itself. In a rational world, we would be building nuclear power plants, lots of nuclear power plants. But we don't live in a rational world as people are afraid of things they don't understand.

Problem is, whenever you mention Nuclear, people think of "The China Syndrome"...

Or The disaster in Japan... Or how to get rid of the spent rods...

What they don't realize is that the newer Generation 4 Reactors are much safer, much more efficient, can use the old spent rods for fuel and the waste only lasts a hundred or so years, rather than millennia, like the older reactors...

[GrumpyOldMan]

Problem is, whenever you mention Nuclear, people think of "The China Syndrome"...

Or The disaster in Japan... Or how to get rid of the spent rods...

What they don't realize is that the newer Generation 4 Reactors are much safer, much more efficient, can use the old spent rods for fuel and the waste only lasts a hundred or so years, rather than millennia, like the older reactors...

Actually, the OLDER nukes, like the ones used in Russia, are much safer and can't met down. But we won't use them.

[biker1]

Do you mean the same design as Chernobyl? If so, that was a bad design with no containment structure.

Actually, the OLDER nukes, like the ones used in Russia, are much safer and can't met down. But we won't use them.

[JMintzer]

Actually, the OLDER nukes, like the ones used in Russia, are much safer and can't met down. But we won't use them.

Wasn't Chernobyl in Russia? It was actually worse than a meltdown...

[spd2918]

I should have been clearer. When I used the term SJW, I was referring to somebody who typically argues a point without any facts and data as opposed to Ben Shapiro who has facts and data.

I should have said fossil fuels, not just coal. And I already corrected myself for that. We don't disagree that electric cars run mostly on fossil fuels.

Did you Google "zero emmision vehicles?" You should do that.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Wasn't Chernobyl in Russia? It was actually worse than a meltdown...

No, I was referring to Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor. They have their own "problems", but don't create the fuel rod disposal problem and can't "melt down".

Another solution is micro-plants. I worked as a consultant at the Palo Verde Nuclear plant in AZ for a couple years. It is the safest plant in the US, having operated for a LONG time with no serious incidents - less incidents than coal.

But, one of the thing we were investigating at the time was a study being done in the Northwest to look into distributed generation instead of centralized generation. Centralized generation is really bad at almost everything, but makes the owners very rich. Distributed generation is not perfect but solves a lot of the problems with "terrorist attack" security issues, wide spread outages, and on and on. The idea is to produce electricity at or close to the point of usage. Neighborhood or even individual houses producing their own and feeding any excess into a shared grid. Very robust structurally. The obvious methods of decentralized generation are things like small gas fired turbines, solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, hydrogen fueled turbines, fuel cells, etc. There is (has been?) research done on micro nukes also.

There are MANY possibilities that are safer, more robust and in the long run less expensive. But power companies don't want them, they can't control decentralized generation for profits.

[GrumpyOldMan]

A smear is using falsehoods.

Pretty much, falsehoods or out of context.

[Two Bills]

I have never seen a story about a horse spontaneously combusting. Come to think of it, they don't require any electricity either. Wow, now if we could only find horse drawn golf carts...

Horse and carts are a nightmare in roundabouts, and can you imagine the horse poop threads on here!

[tvbound]

No, I was referring to Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor. They have their own "problems", but don't create the fuel rod disposal problem and can't "melt down".

Another solution is micro-plants. I worked as a consultant at the Palo Verde Nuclear plant in AZ for a couple years. It is the safest plant in the US, having operated for a LONG time with no serious incidents - less incidents than coal.

But, one of the thing we were investigating at the time was a study being done in the Northwest to look into distributed generation instead of centralized generation. Centralized generation is really bad at almost everything, but makes the owners very rich. Distributed generation is not perfect but solves a lot of the problems with "terrorist attack" security issues, wide spread outages, and on and on. The idea is to produce electricity at or close to the point of usage. Neighborhood or even individual houses producing their own and feeding any excess into a shared grid. Very robust structurally. The obvious methods of decentralized generation are things like small gas fired turbines, solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, hydrogen fueled turbines, fuel cells, etc. There is (has been?) research done on micro nukes also.

There are MANY possibilities that are safer, more robust and in the long run less expensive. But power companies don't want them, they can't control decentralized generation for profits.


"Centralized generation is really bad at almost everything, but makes the owners very rich. Distributed generation is not perfect but solves a lot of the problems with "terrorist attack" security issues, wide spread outages, and on and on."


One only has to look to Texas last winter - to prove your point. For those who might want to try and bring it up, it is false that alt-energy production was at the root of Texas' problem during last winter.

[Byte1]

ZZZZZZZZZZ....call me when you invent an electric car that will actually go 500 miles on a charge, not cost an arm and leg (can be afforded by low and middle income) and don't cost $10K to replace the batteries every 5-10 years. And when I say travel 500 miles (or even 300 miles) I mean driving at 65-75mph for long distances, with the A/C running. And I mean without having to stop for a four hour charge.
Lithium batteries are very volatile and will burst into flames if overheated during charging or hard running. I realize that there are a lot of safeguards on these cars, but there are still reports of burning electric cars.
I'll keep the mostly affordable gas cars, thank you.

[JMintzer]

No, I was referring to Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor. They have their own "problems", but don't create the fuel rod disposal problem and can't "melt down".

Another solution is micro-plants. I worked as a consultant at the Palo Verde Nuclear plant in AZ for a couple years. It is the safest plant in the US, having operated for a LONG time with no serious incidents - less incidents than coal.

But, one of the thing we were investigating at the time was a study being done in the Northwest to look into distributed generation instead of centralized generation. Centralized generation is really bad at almost everything, but makes the owners very rich. Distributed generation is not perfect but solves a lot of the problems with "terrorist attack" security issues, wide spread outages, and on and on. The idea is to produce electricity at or close to the point of usage. Neighborhood or even individual houses producing their own and feeding any excess into a shared grid. Very robust structurally. The obvious methods of decentralized generation are things like small gas fired turbines, solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, hydrogen fueled turbines, fuel cells, etc. There is (has been?) research done on micro nukes also.

There are MANY possibilities that are safer, more robust and in the long run less expensive. But power companies don't want them, they can't control decentralized generation for profits.

Great points. Thanks for the added information!

[GrumpyOldMan]

ZZZZZZZZZZ....call me when you invent an electric car that will actually go 500 miles on a charge, not cost an arm and leg (can be afforded by low and middle income) and don't cost $10K to replace the batteries every 5-10 years. And when I say travel 500 miles (or even 300 miles) I mean driving at 65-75mph for long distances, with the A/C running. And I mean without having to stop for a four hour charge.
Lithium batteries are very volatile and will burst into flames if overheated during charging or hard running. I realize that there are a lot of safeguards on these cars, but there are still reports of burning electric cars.
I'll keep the mostly affordable gas cars, thank you.


I get it, you don't want an electric vehicle. Since you normally drive 10 to 12 hours without stopping. (Good bladder!)

You want an affordable car - but don't say what is affordable, and do you include the total cost of ownership in that calculation? Because Tesla 3's are already less expensive than most compacts that are comparably equipped over a 2 or 3 year period. Most mid-priced cars in the US average around $500 to $750 per year in maintenance. If you happen to own a BMW it can run much more. So, you are looking at $5K to $7.5K for your average ICE vehicle over that same 10 years. (Tesla's average annual maintenance for a Model 3 is about $300. or 1/10 of the cost of maintenance on an ICE)

And you certainly shouldn't purchase an EV if you plan on keeping it for more than 10 years since in 10 years it will be obsolete because of advancing technology. Most people replace their cars every 2 or 3 years.

The cost of batteries you are quoting is low, they run around $12,000 for Model 3's. Of course, that assumes battery technology remains totally static and no improvements in price/performance are achieved over the next decade. That could happen, but it would be a unique occurrence that has NEVER happened before in any branch of technology.

Yeah, I agree you should stick to ICE vehicles, I wouldn't want anyone to stress out over what the cost of maintenance would be for their 10-year-old car.

[biker1]

There are a lot of things wrong with your post. Where to start? You can buy an electric for about the same amount as the average new car - about $40K. Current generation Tesla batteries can go 200 to 300K miles - no need to replace the batteries for most people. The next generation of Tesla batteries are targeted for 1M miles. This is far longer than any gas engine can go without a rebuild. Four hour charges? Nope, you can do about 150 miles of charge in about 20 minutes with a Supercharger. I have never driven 300 miles without stopping. Chevy Bolt batteries have some issues during charging. Don't buy a Chevy Bolt. Tesla batteries may have a fire issue if they are compromised during a crash. The gas tank on a gas car may also have issues during a crash. Buy an electric car or don't. Please don't make up stuff.

ZZZZZZZZZZ....call me when you invent an electric car that will actually go 500 miles on a charge, not cost an arm and leg (can be afforded by low and middle income) and don't cost $10K to replace the batteries every 5-10 years. And when I say travel 500 miles (or even 300 miles) I mean driving at 65-75mph for long distances, with the A/C running. And I mean without having to stop for a four hour charge.
Lithium batteries are very volatile and will burst into flames if overheated during charging or hard running. I realize that there are a lot of safeguards on these cars, but there are still reports of burning electric cars.
I'll keep the mostly affordable gas cars, thank you.

[Dana1963]

Problem is, whenever you mention Nuclear, people think of "The China Syndrome"...

Or The disaster in Japan... Or how to get rid of the spent rods...

What they don't realize is that the newer Generation 4 Reactors are much safer, much more efficient, can use the old spent rods for fuel and the waste only lasts a hundred or so years, rather than millennia, like the older reactors...
And Three Mile Island it only took 14 years to cleanup “ The cleanup at the Three Mile Island nuclear plant has ended after 14 years with a final puff of radioactive steam from the evaporator used to get rid of contaminated water from the 1979 accident. ... There is contamination in the reactor building, but it's fixed in the walls.Aug 15, 1993”

[smacca56]

Not so much on topic but I got a call from one of my clients (insurance) today. He drives a Tesla and was chased by 2 deer down the road this morning. One hit the back of his car as he tried to drive faster to get away from them. He said it was very scary. It seems very weird to me but maybe they were trying to hijack his car! :icon_wink:

[JMintzer]

I get it, you don't want an electric vehicle. Since you normally drive 10 to 12 hours without stopping. (Good bladder!)

When I drive to FL, gas and BR breaks rarely take 10 minutes...

You want an affordable car - but don't say what is affordable, and do you include the total cost of ownership in that calculation? Because Tesla 3's are already less expensive than most compacts that are comparably equipped over a 2 or 3 year period. Most mid-priced cars in the US average around $500 to $750 per year in maintenance. If you happen to own a BMW it can run much more. So, you are looking at $5K to $7.5K for your average ICE vehicle over that same 10 years. (Tesla's average annual maintenance for a Model 3 is about $300. or 1/10 of the cost of maintenance on an ICE)

You're ignoring the Tax Incentives that seem to be needed to entice people to by these vehicles...

And you certainly shouldn't purchase an EV if you plan on keeping it for more than 10 years since in 10 years it will be obsolete because of advancing technology. Most people replace their cars every 2 or 3 years.

Not anymore...

"According to an IHS Markit study, the average length of new-vehicle ownership in the U.S. stands at 79.3 months, or nearly seven years."

My Hyundai Genesis is coming up on 11 years old, 130K miles and I've no plans to replace it... Not for the over $45-50K it would cost...

Yeah, I agree you should stick to ICE vehicles, I wouldn't want anyone to stress out over what the cost of maintenance would be for their 10-year-old car.

My extended warranty ran out at 120K miles, since then, nothing but oil changes. But I am due for new brake pads...

[JMintzer]

And Three Mile Island it only took 14 years to cleanup “ The cleanup at the Three Mile Island nuclear plant has ended after 14 years with a final puff of radioactive steam from the evaporator used to get rid of contaminated water from the 1979 accident. ... There is contamination in the reactor building, but it's fixed in the walls.Aug 15, 1993”

Which has nothing to do with my point about Gen IV reactors, but sure...

[GrumpyOldMan]

When I drive to FL, gas and BR breaks rarely take 10 minutes...



You're ignoring the Tax Incentives that seem to be needed to entice people to by these vehicles...



Not anymore...

"According to an IHS Markit study, the average length of new-vehicle ownership in the U.S. stands at 79.3 months, or nearly seven years."

My Hyundai Genesis is coming up on 11 years old, 130K miles and I've no plans to replace it... Not for the over $45-50K it would cost...



My extended warranty ran out at 120K miles, since then, nothing but oil changes. But I am due for new brake pads...

Excellent reply, thank you.

And so, how many stops do you make? If let's say 5, then that adds 100 minutes to a what 18-hour drive? If that is the deciding factor, please don't buy an EV today. (I just saw a report of an EV - sorry didn't read it, so don't know who - that has a 500-mile range).

I would say the tax incentives are not NEEDED, but help move people to the decision to buy. Tax incentives are often used for that, not just for EVs. The tax break on home interest is the same thing. Do you think people would instantly stop buying houses if they no longer get tax breaks for buying? The government does a lot of social engineering with taxes, sadly...

You no doubt take very good care of your car and have good maintenance experience. My numbers were averages.

The nice thing about this is no one is holding a gun to anyone's head to buy Teslas. But, EVs are coming and likely in a decade with be the only choice.

[JMintzer]

Excellent reply, thank you.

And so, how many stops do you make? If let's say 5, then that adds 100 minutes to a what 18-hour drive? If that is the deciding factor, please don't buy an EV today. (I just saw a report of an EV - sorry didn't read it, so don't know who - that has a 500-mile range).

Typically? 3...

I would say the tax incentives are not NEEDED, but help move people to the decision to buy. Tax incentives are often used for that, not just for EVs. The tax break on home interest is the same thing. Do you think people would instantly stop buying houses if they no longer get tax breaks for buying? The government does a lot of social engineering with taxes, sadly...

I just find it odd that the largest tax breaks are for the high end Teslas, that only the rich can afford...

People HAVE to live somewhere. They don't HAVE to buy an EV (well, except in CA, where they're trying to make it a law, even though they don't have anywhere NEAR the power grid to supply them... Hell, they're having problems with people charging the ones that currently are on the streets!)

But if they remove the home interest deduction, it'll crash the housing market, so good luck with that...

You no doubt take very good care of your car and have good maintenance experience. My numbers were averages.

Thanks, but your averages were in "Ye Olden Days"... That hasn't been the case for many, many decades...

The nice thing about this is no one is holding a gun to anyone's head to buy Teslas. But, EVs are coming and likely in a decade with be the only choice.

I've no problem with people making a CHOICE to buy an EV. But good luck with it being the ONLY choice...

[biker1]

Doubtful but it may be expensive to buy a gas vehicle in 10 years.

The nice thing about this is no one is holding a gun to anyone's head to buy Teslas. But, EVs are coming and likely in a decade with be the only choice.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Doubtful but it may be expensive to buy a gas vehicle in 10 years.

Well, you can still buy vinyl records and players, you can buy flip phones, you can buy horse-drawn. carriages and wood-burning stoves - Yup, you will still be able to buy ICE vehicles, just like other relics. I personally think it will be sooner than a decade because technology is expanding exponentially not linearly and the result will be some form of technology that makes ICE totally impractical. Right now ICE is competitive.

Imagine a micro-fusion reactor that can power your car/house/pool/everything for you for life and costs a couple of hundred dollars. I doubt that will happen, but look at cell phones and think of 2 decades ago. We now have a device in our pants pocket that can contact anyone almost anywhere in the world instantly with no long-distance charges, and with it, we can access almost all the knowledge in the world instantly...The same change is coming to cars. Bet on it.

[Regor]

As the OP 1st posted about fires on li-on batteries in cars, I hope he NEVER plugs his cell phone or laptop in without keeping an eye on it.
As a happy owner of a EZgo Elite cart for the last 12 months (3,500 miles), never had a fire. Never had any service done on it. Never went to a gas station (used to be an every-other week trip. Took me about 30 min round trip), that's at least 12 hrs. of just going to get gas.
But keep your eye on those rechargeable devices! Your house could go up in flames!

[biker1]

You are trying to draw an analogy between cellphones and cars? Really? The problem is that there are approximately 100 million new vehicles sold each year, worldwide. Yeah, that is a big number and the infrastructure to support that doesn't materialize overnight. It will take more than a decade to develop the manufacturing capacity to build that many electrics. Battery manufacturing capacity is the big issue. Toyota, the largest automaker in the world at 10 million cars per year, is making very slow progress and does not have an all electric vehicle for sale in the US. The legacy automakers cannot move that fast. They have all pretty much said so. Some may go out of business. Even the US Government doesn't believe it as the new tax credit legislation includes hybrids. Best guess is we will be at 50% all electric vehicles (new sales) in 10 years, and that would be quite an accomplishment.



Well, you can still buy vinyl records and players, you can buy flip phones, you can buy horse-drawn. carriages and wood-burning stoves - Yup, you will still be able to buy ICE vehicles, just like other relics. I personally think it will be sooner than a decade because technology is expanding exponentially not linearly and the result will be some form of technology that makes ICE totally impractical. Right now ICE is competitive.

Imagine a micro-fusion reactor that can power your car/house/pool/everything for you for life and costs a couple of hundred dollars. I doubt that will happen, but look at cell phones and think of 2 decades ago. We now have a device in our pants pocket that can contact anyone almost anywhere in the world instantly with no long-distance charges, and with it, we can access almost all the knowledge in the world instantly...The same change is coming to cars. Bet on it.

[GrumpyOldMan]

You are trying to draw an analogy between cellphones and cars? Really? The problem is that there are approximately 100 million new vehicles sold each year, worldwide. Yeah, that is a big number and the infrastructure to support that doesn't materialize overnight. It will take more than a decade to develop the manufacturing capacity to build that many electrics. Battery manufacturing capacity is the big issue. Toyota, the largest automaker in the world at 10 million cars per year, is making very slow progress and does not have an all electric vehicle for sale in the US. The legacy automakers cannot move that fast. They have all pretty much said so. Some may go out of business. Even the US Government doesn't believe it as the new tax credit legislation includes hybrids. Best guess is we will be at 50% all electric vehicles (new sales) in 10 years, and that would be quite an accomplishment.

Excellent response, and hard to dispute your position, seriously very good and valid points.

But, 10 years ago everyone said you could not design a rocket to launch and land and be reused within weeks. Everyone laughed, now it is routine for SpaceX.

Smartphones, 13 years ago millions in first world countries, today about 5 billion of them, and all those cell towers to support them.

I don't know how it is going to happen, I just believe it will.

Combining automated AI manufacturing, repurposing gas stations (infrastructure) to charging stations (for profit) existing factories - Toyota, Honda, GM, Ford, etc, etc, etc. All switching to EVs. Tesla alone now has over 25,000 superchargers.

Distributed generation with localized mass storage battery systems (Tesla has them in several countries already) and I saw in the news a few days ago several states are considering legislation to build public charging stations.

It will certainly be interesting to see where we are in ten years.

Oh, and 11 years ago the first iPad came out, and Apple alone has sold more than 500 million of them. I think if you include Andriod tablets there are around 60 to 70 million sold per quarter now.

Lots of big numbers.

When money is to be made, companies will find a way to hurry up.

[biker1]

Again, drawing comparisons with cellphones is not worthwhile. There is a big difference between manufacturing cellphones and cars. Again, the capacity to manufacture enough batteries will take a long time to develop. For the US alone, battery production would need to ramp up by 15x over the current number. Electric car manufacturing is limited by battery production. US automakers are projecting they will be at 50% all electric by 2030. Some projections for 2030 include hybrids and not only all-electrics. I tend to believe the people who actually make the product since production planning is a long term process.

Excellent response, and hard to dispute your position, seriously very good and valid points.

But, 10 years ago everyone said you could not design a rocket to launch and land and be reused within weeks. Everyone laughed, now it is routine for SpaceX.

Smartphones, 13 years ago millions in first world countries, today about 5 billion of them, and all those cell towers to support them.

I don't know how it is going to happen, I just believe it will.

Combining automated AI manufacturing, repurposing gas stations (infrastructure) to charging stations (for profit) existing factories - Toyota, Honda, GM, Ford, etc, etc, etc. All switching to EVs. Tesla alone now has over 25,000 superchargers.

Distributed generation with localized mass storage battery systems (Tesla has them in several countries already) and I saw in the news a few days ago several states are considering legislation to build public charging stations.

It will certainly be interesting to see where we are in ten years.

Oh, and 11 years ago the first iPad came out, and Apple alone has sold more than 500 million of them. I think if you include Andriod tablets there are around 60 to 70 million sold per quarter now.

Lots of big numbers.

When money is to be made, companies will find a way to hurry up.

[Bay Kid]

Tax credits shouldn't be given to buy anything.

[JMintzer]

I get it, you don't want an electric vehicle. Since you normally drive 10 to 12 hours without stopping. (Good bladder!)

You want an affordable car - but don't say what is affordable, and do you include the total cost of ownership in that calculation? Because Tesla 3's are already less expensive than most compacts that are comparably equipped over a 2 or 3 year period. Most mid-priced cars in the US average around $500 to $750 per year in maintenance. If you happen to own a BMW it can run much more. So, you are looking at $5K to $7.5K for your average ICE vehicle over that same 10 years. (Tesla's average annual maintenance for a Model 3 is about $300. or 1/10 of the cost of maintenance on an ICE)

And you certainly shouldn't purchase an EV if you plan on keeping it for more than 10 years since in 10 years it will be obsolete because of advancing technology. Most people replace their cars every 2 or 3 years.

The cost of batteries you are quoting is low, they run around $12,000 for Model 3's. Of course, that assumes battery technology remains totally static and no improvements in price/performance are achieved over the next decade. That could happen, but it would be a unique occurrence that has NEVER happened before in any branch of technology.

Yeah, I agree you should stick to ICE vehicles, I wouldn't want anyone to stress out over what the cost of maintenance would be for their 10-year-old car.

Just curious...

Do you drive an EV? I don't remember you saying if you did or not...

[dtennent]

To those who think the technology can't be developed quickly - Having spent my career at a company which heavily invested in Research, Development and Manufacturing in the development of new technology, I was always impressed by how fast a new plant could come on line once the decision was made to move forward. (3-4 years from planning to finish) While you are correct in saying that cars are more complex than phones, most of the car does not need a lot of new technology. That leaves a few components of which batteries would appear to be the biggest issue. Would you please give a reference which addresses why building new battery factories would be such a long lead time?

[Dana1963]

To those who think the technology can't be developed quickly - Having spent my career at a company which heavily invested in Research, Development and Manufacturing in the development of new technology, I was always impressed by how fast a new plant could come on line once the decision was made to move forward. (3-4 years from planning to finish) While you are correct in saying that cars are more complex than phones, most of the car does not need a lot of new technology. That leaves a few components of which batteries would appear to be the biggest issue. Would you please give a reference which addresses why building new battery factories would be such a long lead time?
Ford announced they are building 3 new battery plants $5.8 to $7 BILLION.
Who will be Arthur Dent and lie to stop progress.
Currently a EV is not in my future I’m sticking with my hybrid at 49mpg highway could be more if I slowed down. Driving in TV my best has been 56mpg with A/C on or fill up tank about 8 weeks.
Recently at 24hrs of LeMans Toyota HyperCard Hybrid w/V6 won race 4 laps ahead of nearest competitors a lap is approximately 8.47 miles

[spd2918]

The nice thing about this is no one is holding a gun to anyone's head to buy Teslas. But, EVs are coming and likely in a decade with be the only choice.

They are holding guns to our heads to pay for them (for others to buy luxury cars).

I consider it tithing to the new Green Religion.

I think we need to call them ECE cars, as in external combustion engine cars since they are fueled by natural gas and coal.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Just curious...

Do you drive an EV? I don't remember you saying if you did or not...

Not yet, we have decided to buy a Tesla, and are waiting a little to see how the market is going to react when more of the "stuff" going on right now gets over with - or maybe I should say, "if it gets over with". We don't like taking funds out of the market when it is so turbulent

But, for me the reason is more the FSD which is now in beta, I don't want to have to drive any more... It would probably be safer for others if I was not driving LOL.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Apparently, Tesla's are a bit too pricey for some posters taste, so here is a tasty rumor - $25,000 model in 2 years possibly with FSD,

I Am Super Excited for the Full Self Driving Tesla Model $25K | CleanTechnica (https://cleantechnica.com/2021/10/04/i-am-super-excited-for-the-full-self-driving-tesla-model-25k/)

[biker1]

I will turn this around on you. Why are US automakers projecting that they will only be at 50% electrics in 2030? Why doesn’t Tesla just build a bunch of new battery factories right now since they are battery constrained?


To those who think the technology can't be developed quickly - Having spent my career at a company which heavily invested in Research, Development and Manufacturing in the development of new technology, I was always impressed by how fast a new plant could come on line once the decision was made to move forward. (3-4 years from planning to finish) While you are correct in saying that cars are more complex than phones, most of the car does not need a lot of new technology. That leaves a few components of which batteries would appear to be the biggest issue. Would you please give a reference which addresses why building new battery factories would be such a long lead time?

[spd2918]

=GrumpyOldMan;2013631]Apparently, Tesla's are a bit too pricey for some posters taste, so here is a tasty rumor - $25,000 model in 2 years possibly with FSD,


That's cheap for any type of new car. But His Holiness Elon Musk can sell them below cost, because he is raking it in with "carbon credits."

The carbon credit scheme is government manipulation of the market; they are picking winners and losers. Since Teslas are power by fossil fuels that are converted into electricity, they get to extort manufacturers of cars that run directly on fossil fuels.

Tesla Earned $428 Million With Carbon Credits In Q2 2020: Why That's Bad (https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/438345/tesla-428-million-carbon-credits-q2-2020/amp/)

[chasandvalr]

No problems with either and have both EV car and golf carts. Wouldn’t think of owning gas-powered again.

I like your thinking and agree with you.

[chasandvalr]

[QUOTE=GrumpyOldMan;2013631]Apparently, Tesla's are a bit too pricey for some posters taste, so here is a tasty rumor - $25,000 model in 2 years possibly with FSD,
[QUOTE]

That's cheap for any type of new car. But His Holiness Elon Musk can sell them below cost, because he is raking it in with "carbon credits."

The carbon credit scheme is government manipulation of the market; they are picking winners and losers. Since Teslas are power by fossil fuels that are converted into electricity, they get to extort manufacturers of cars that run directly on fossil fuels.

Tesla Earned $428 Million With Carbon Credits In Q2 2020: Why That's Bad (https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/438345/tesla-428-million-carbon-credits-q2-2020/amp/)

Yes, the model 2 will be coming out soon but the styling is not like the current Tesla's. Looks more like an SUV. I'm sure the battery range won't be exciting, either. Doesn't matter, I'm looking forward to seeing them on the road. PS - a motorcycle is in the works, too.

[chasandvalr]

Not yet, we have decided to buy a Tesla, and are waiting a little to see how the market is going to react when more of the "stuff" going on right now gets over with - or maybe I should say, "if it gets over with". We don't like taking funds out of the market when it is so turbulent

But, for me the reason is more the FSD which is now in beta, I don't want to have to drive any more... It would probably be safer for others if I was not driving LOL.

I have an ev.

[biker1]

FSD is not Level 5 autonomous driving. I believe it will be 5 years or more before Tesla has Level 5 autonomous driving.


Not yet, we have decided to buy a Tesla, and are waiting a little to see how the market is going to react when more of the "stuff" going on right now gets over with - or maybe I should say, "if it gets over with". We don't like taking funds out of the market when it is so turbulent

But, for me the reason is more the FSD which is now in beta, I don't want to have to drive any more... It would probably be safer for others if I was not driving LOL.

[GrumpyOldMan]

I will turn this around on you. Why are US automakers projecting that they will only be at 50% electrics in 2030? Why doesn’t Tesla just build a bunch of new battery factories right now since they are battery constrained?

American business is SLOW. I could ask why is ULA (Boeing) still not able to launch a manned spaceship to the space station after 10 years and being many billions over budget? SpaceX with only a small injection (loan/contracts) of government money is regularly launching now.

When Japan took over auto manufacturing quality and production from US car makers using Statical Process Control, it took the US makers decades to recover.

Sadly US business is conservative and slow. Personally, I attribute it to the stock market talking heads. If a public company doesn't meet some bean counters projections it can literally cost them billions. So, they developed a very conservative outlook on business. Ever notice all the US car makers' models look so much alike? Can't take a chance on something innovative - remember Edisel?

Musk is leading the way constantly doing things everyone says can't be done. Lately, Tesla has begun using/testing a unibody press, one of the largest in the world. Reducing part count, cost, and build time compared to traditional manufacturing processes.

Tesla IS building new battery factories all over the world, including Germany, China, Texas, etc. More to come. He is building them as fast as he can finance them.


The most likely reason I can see for a potential slow down in the transition to EVs is probably political. If things go south and the world experiences a depression, well, that could slow down even Musk.

[JMintzer]

Apparently, Tesla's are a bit too pricey for some posters taste, so here is a tasty rumor - $25,000 model in 2 years possibly with FSD,

I Am Super Excited for the Full Self Driving Tesla Model $25K | CleanTechnica (https://cleantechnica.com/2021/10/04/i-am-super-excited-for-the-full-self-driving-tesla-model-25k/)

Yet you haven't bought one... Too pricey for you?

[biker1]

Yes, exactly my point. Tesla and others have been or are planning to ramp up capacity probably as quickly as possible. Yet, some manufacturers are still only projecting 50% electric vehicles in 10 years. Currently, Model Y delivery is for estimated for April 2022.


American business is SLOW. I could ask why is ULA (Boeing) still not able to launch a manned spaceship to the space station after 10 years and being many billions over budget? SpaceX with only a small injection (loan/contracts) of government money is regularly launching now.

When Japan took over auto manufacturing quality and production from US car makers using Statical Process Control, it took the US makers decades to recover.

Sadly US business is conservative and slow. Personally, I attribute it to the stock market talking heads. If a public company doesn't meet some bean counters projections it can literally cost them billions. So, they developed a very conservative outlook on business. Ever notice all the US car makers' models look so much alike? Can't take a chance on something innovative - remember Edisel?

Musk is leading the way constantly doing things everyone says can't be done. Lately, Tesla has begun using/testing a unibody press, one of the largest in the world. Reducing part count, cost, and build time compared to traditional manufacturing processes.

Tesla IS building new battery factories all over the world, including Germany, China, Texas, etc. More to come. He is building them as fast as he can finance them.


The most likely reason I can see for a potential slow down in the transition to EVs is probably political. If things go south and the world experiences a depression, well, that could slow down even Musk.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Yes, exactly my point. Tesla and others have been or are planning to ramp up capacity probably as quickly as possible. Yet, some manufacturers are still only projecting 50% electric vehicles in 10 years. Currently, Model Y delivery is for estimated for April 2022.

I think you mean, Model Y is sold out until 2022. They are currently selling Model Y's, just production can not yet keep up. I saw something about bringing some of the Model Y production from China back to the states to help.

I also saw that Tesla is currently (September) the top selling car in England. And approaching that is other European countries.

[biker1]

Semantics. If you order a Model Y today you will get delivery in April 2022. I am not in a particular hurry. I won’t place an order until I can guarantee an Austin build with 4680s.


I think you mean, Model Y is sold out until 2022. They are currently selling Model Y's, just production can not yet keep up. I saw something about bringing some of the Model Y production from China back to the states to help.

I also saw that Tesla is currently (September) the top selling car in England. And approaching that is other European countries.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Semantics. If you order a Model Y today you will get delivery in April 2022. I am not in a particular hurry. I won’t place an order until I can guarantee an Austin build with 4680s.

Since we had been discussing how soon EVs will be all you can buy new, I assumed you meant it was not in production yet.

My bad, I know better than to make assumptions, but knowing better doesn't seem to ever stop me :)

[Brad-tv]

Ice cars catch on fire too

https://twitter.com/brandonurbz_/status/1445949155965345793?s=21

[Nucky]

I like the idea of the new batteries also. Can you believe that one of the selling points of the Cybertruck is that it's bulletproof? Gimme a break. I really didn't mind waiting as long as it takes to get it correct with everything else but TARGET PRACTICE at a truck is a given that someone will be a victim. I don't want it to be me, I'm a big target.

Recalculating my decision. I still really want to do it but I'm reasonable to. I just upgraded my order to the 3 motor model. Damn!

500 mile coverage batteries which will get us to one set of kids in the Carolinas and with one more charge up to the other kids in Jersey.

What to do, What to do. I've got plenty of time to think it over.

[Brad-tv]

Hey you have to let us know when you get it I’m dying to see it in person!! Maybe we can have a Tesla party ( excluding all the Tesla/ EV haters on this forum )

Does anyone own a new Model S Plaid here?? I’d love to see what 0-60 under 2 seconds feels like !!

[Nucky]

Hey you have to let us know when you get it I’m dying to see it in person!! Maybe we can have a Tesla party ( excluding all the Tesla/ EV haters on this forum )

Does anyone own a new Model S Plaid here?? I’d love to see what 0-60 under 2 seconds feels like !!

I’m almost certain that is the model my son has. Plaid S. Unbelievable!!!! It was mine to use while he was at work for a six week visit. I gave him the Credit Card (Key) back pretty quickly mainly because I love speed and was an aggressive driver and the car was over my head. I’m a reformed speeder. I didn’t want to mess up his ride. It is not easy to have a car like that and not rip it.

The acceleration is hard to explain. It glued you in the seat and makes you laugh, unfortunately in my case a man has to know his limitations and this car is over mine. Very expensive, I think it was $110 - $120K all in.