Follow up to Pat the Plumber scam

[Laura]

Here is a follow up to my original posting. While all agree that this was terrible thing that happened to my uncle, no money can be refunded because my uncle did, in fact, agree to these services, even though scare tactics were used.
Let me just list ONE item on the list of things for which he was charged:

hydrostatic test on two bath cables: $649.00.
Reminding you once again that this plumber was called because the handle to flush the toilet fell off and my uncle couldn't put it back on.
Again, the name of this company is: PAT THE PLUMBER.

[memason]

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance, but what is a "Bath Cable" ??

[BaylorBear]

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance, but what is a "Bath Cable" ??

Yeah, what he said!!!:shrug:

[chacam]

Me too ! !

[redwitch]

Did a quick scan for bath cable. Apparently, it is some sort of a drain pipe -- Koehler sells one for $109 (reg), net price $75. From what I could find, it seems the hydrostatic test is done mainly on pools, although it can be done to be sure the hot water is hot and the cold is cold (at the appropriate temperatures). While I can't say definitively, it does sound like a total rip off. I'm sorry your father had to go through this. Here's hoping that others will be wiser.

If nothing else, can you do a report with the BBB letting them know your father was legally scammed?

[Laura]

darned if I know. I read it right off of the work order. I e-mailed everyone I know in The Villages and told them the facts of this story. Many wrote back and said they knew from past experience that they are crooks. I would say this case qualifies them as crooks - fixing things that do not need to be fixed and walking away with over a thousand dollars.

[gary42651]

I am surprised to hear the Pat the Plumber is still in business. There is no reason to do this type of test on a tub in a residential home. If the tub doesn`t hold water just adjust the cable, or clean out under the pop-up. I bet there was no problem with the waste and overflow holding water. A test kit to do this for commerical applications cost $27.00. I have been a plumber (i hate to say) for 40 years, and have had my own business for 32 years, I have never heard of anyone ever doing this type of test on a residential tub. It would have been alot cheaper to just replace the waste and overflow. It has been my experience that most waste and overflow units on residential tubs last around 20 years.
I am happy to say that I just sold my Plumbing business in NJ and will be living full time in the Villages in a couple of weeks. If anyone needs plumbing advice feel free to contact me anytime, but I did hang up the tools....

[barb1191]

A suggestiion that may work for you....

If you contact the local television stations in Central FL and ask to speak to the consumer advocate representative and impress upon them that you're a senior citizen, they may follow up with your story on the televised news and possibly the public display will put this thief out of business (or in jail) and you just may get your money back. It's worth a try. Just start with the phone call to the television station. That's a big chunk of money he scammed from you!!

I suggest this because my daughter in MA called the local Boston channel 5consumer advocate, Susan Warnick, left a message to speak to her and Susan returned the call within an hour and advised her what to do some time ago when she was scammed. I don't recall if it was televised, but I do remember that my daughter was so very thankful for their help. The television is extremely helpful, especially to senior citizens.

Good luck.

[K9-Lovers]

From my experience in Virginia, when a television station is contacted and decides to investigate before airing anything, they contact the contractor in question. At that point, the contractor bends over backwards to make it "right" so they won't look bad on television.

It is worth a phone call.

[jannd228]

not sure if this was posted before or not it a volunteer group from the FL Atty Gen'l office dealing with crimes against seniors
http://www.seniorsvscrime.com/

consumer media advocates are different in every area, Susan Wornick of WCVB is a very special person in MA she does more than others do in her position in other parts of the country

[graciegirl]

not sure if this was posted before or not it a volunteer group from the FL Atty Gen'l office dealing with crimes against seniors
http://www.seniorsvscrime.com/

consumer media advocates are different in every area, Susan Wornick of WCVB is a very special person in MA she does more than others do in her position in other parts of the country

These are all great ideas, especially the TV approach . Which channel has the best consumer advocate person here? Does anybody know?? Laura do you live here?

You have done a great service to tell us. That item about bathtub cables makes my blood boil.

Thank you Laura. You are a great neice to your uncle too!

Another thing we could do is all call him and tell him we have heard about his underhanded dealings!!

[jannd228]

this probably isn't legal but is it possible to have a consumer beware, or we advocate for you thread here, (sorry my days of titling things are over) something that doesn't STATE an issue with a service but subliminally makes reference to double check before you buy

or you could have we prefer ABC Company, there seem to be a lot of double threads here on the same issues, I bought the TOTV book offered to edit it (nc) about what you need to know about TV, but maybe there needs to be something for seniors not to get scammed on here also

I see my uncle almost scammed every day (he's 87) including a recent incident involving his wife's recent death and hospital notification from the donor bank, gruesome call, I step in and take the calls now,

[CaliforniaGirl]

Laura, have you considered simply forwarding a link to this thread (and your previous) to Pat the Plumber?
Word-of-mouth advertising can make or break a business, especially in a close-knit community like TV. Their obnoxious clover-leaf trucks are seen all the time here, so they might be willing to reimburse your uncle in exchange for a post that $$ was reimbursed due to a "misunderstanding", etc.
Not that I would ever use them, especially after hearing about what happened to your uncle, but it could help recover some of what he lost.

[dillywho]

I, too, experienced a very expensive plumbing lesson with this dude a few years ago. Now with any problem I have, I call the Villages Warranty Department and get their recommendation. So far, that has worked out great. Anyone they do business with certainly doesn't want to chance losing their business. If you would like, PM me and I will give you specific instances.

[loonlovers]

Our friends were enroute to The Villages last week when they received a call that a leak had been detected outside their home and their water had been turned off. Since they had used Pat the Plumber before (for a very expensive gray pipe job) they decided to call him. About 15 minutes after I read your initial thread on the plumbing scam, they called me and told me that they were having Pat the Plumber do their repair and that the estimate was between $650 and $3,000! And, P the P had already charged their credit card $500 without even starting the work! I told them that TOTV members had listed numerous negative experiences and that they maybe should rethink their decision to use P the P.

They called TV Warranty Department for advice and the response was "Oh NO...do not let them in the door". The Warranty Department recommended a plumber who responded within an hour or so. The job was repaired with a foot of PVC piping replacing the section that was leaking. P the P estimate for a "quick job was $650 but he recommended the "full job" which involved digging up the yard from the road to the house which would run between $2500 - $3000.

Mike Scott Plumbing repaired their leak for $96 and advised them to use the $10 coupon from The Villages phonebook. He also recommended they report their experience to Seniors vs Crime.

Thanks again Laura and other TOTV members for helping save our friends a lot of money.

[Nana18]

They tried to scam us and we threw them out of our house. How do they stay in business?

[getdul981]

They tried to scam us and we threw them out of our house. How do they stay in business?

Unfortunately, not everyone in TV reads and posts on TOTV. They don't have the knowledge and experience of so many wonderful people to help them.

[Indydealmaker]

Maybe The Villagers can work with Angie's List to start of local version or just go bare and set up our own. Publishing is cheap. Constant updates can go on a website and distribution can be done village by village. There are organizers already available who represent the POA or VHOA. (I may have the initials wrong). Virginia Trace already has a list of recommended vendors on their website: www.virginiatrace.com
under Good Services List on the upper right hand side of the home page.

[Funfan]

This is great information, the sad part is we hear this all the time in so many industries. Lets not even get started with golf car repair companies. I went thru 4 before I found a great one.

Looks like P the P will not be getting my business.

[dillywho]

Our friends were enroute to The Villages last week when they received a call that a leak had been detected outside their home and their water had been turned off. Since they had used Pat the Plumber before (for a very expensive gray pipe job) they decided to call him. About 15 minutes after I read your initial thread on the plumbing scam, they called me and told me that they were having Pat the Plumber do their repair and that the estimate was between $650 and $3,000! And, P the P had already charged their credit card $500 without even starting the work! I told them that TOTV members had listed numerous negative experiences and that they maybe should rethink their decision to use P the P.

They called TV Warranty Department for advice and the response was "Oh NO...do not let them in the door". The Warranty Department recommended a plumber who responded within an hour or so. The job was repaired with a foot of PVC piping replacing the section that was leaking. P the P estimate for a "quick job was $650 but he recommended the "full job" which involved digging up the yard from the road to the house which would run between $2500 - $3000.

Mike Scott Plumbing repaired their leak for $96 and advised them to use the $10 coupon from The Villages phonebook. He also recommended they report their experience to Seniors vs Crime.

Thanks again Laura and other TOTV members for helping save our friends a lot of money.

Mike Scott Plumbing is great. (Sorry, couldn't find the I Agree sign)

[tropicalkaren]

We have had this company do many jobs for us and have been very satisfied with the results. They are expensive, but give the price up front.

When we saw their rep recently, we asked about the complaint mentioned here. He said that the big price was for exchanging the "stops" to all of the water lines going to all water fixtures in the house. The replacement valves are more reliable and will prevent flooding caused by the eventual failure of the stop. He said that the stops tend to leak after they have been pulled and pushed a few times.

He also said that a retractment of the original complaint had been posted because this complaint was without merit (unless this was a different complaint).

Below is an explanation of the job as I found it on the internet.

Accor Plastic Angle Stop Valve
These valves were used in my kitchen and all three of my bathrooms, twin sinks in the master bath, so ten of these cheapo things. These seem to be very popular with builders & plumbing contractors who tout the 10 year warranty, I think its because they can just push them onto the copper stub, connect to the fixture and call it good. A little more money and effort during construction for good old compression valves would have suited me. Well I can say from experience that I really don't care for these plastic stop valves. Everytime I looked at one crosswise, it starts leaking and not a single one actually stopped flow to allow replacing a faucet, so as I upgraded each faucet, these were the first to go.

Shut off the house water supply and diconnect the hose from the faucet. You can then just unscew them counterclockwise to remove them, hose and all since they were crimped onto the valve. But because the copper gets cut by this action and there is a corroded ring left were the seal was, I've ended up up using a stubby tube cutter right below were the seal was to have a clean stub of copper to put a compression valve on.
You only lose about an inch of copper, so unless they really short changed you on the stub, this is the way to go.
If you don't like compression fittings, you could sweat on a male thread adapter and use a threaded valve instead.

Here is another dig at these Accor's, the only place in my house these weren't installed, for whatever reason, was at each toillet, these are standard chrome angle valves. Granted my house is almost 2x older than the 10 year warranty of the Accor's, but all three of the original cheapo chrome angle valves still work perfectly, same age, same water supply that rendered every single Accor in my house useless for shut-off. I even broke a couple of the cheap little knobs trying to "snap" them out to the closed position. Nuff said!
-Dvisr

[swrinfla]

tropicalkaren:

While I welcome you to TOTV, I must warn all newcomers that your support of Pat the Plumber is probably unwarranted!

My one experience with PtP was certainly expensive! I think that I might have actually made the required repair myself for less than $50, but I paid out close to $200! The "get it done, now!" attitude prevailed, unfortunately!

My next need for a plumber will NOT be answered by Pat The Plumber. Of that, you may rest assured!

SWR
:beer3:

[brostholder]

I am surprised to hear the Pat the Plumber is still in business. There is no reason to do this type of test on a tub in a residential home. If the tub doesn`t hold water just adjust the cable, or clean out under the pop-up. I bet there was no problem with the waste and overflow holding water. A test kit to do this for commerical applications cost $27.00. I have been a plumber (i hate to say) for 40 years, and have had my own business for 32 years, I have never heard of anyone ever doing this type of test on a residential tub. It would have been alot cheaper to just replace the waste and overflow. It has been my experience that most waste and overflow units on residential tubs last around 20 years.
I am happy to say that I just sold my Plumbing business in NJ and will be living full time in the Villages in a couple of weeks. If anyone needs plumbing advice feel free to contact me anytime, but I did hang up the tools....
Welcome to TV. Another nice guy....you'll fit right in! Thanks for the professional advice.

[ladylake1]

You posted previously that PtP agreed to refund all your uncle's money and that your issue was not with the quality of his work. Was that incorrect? I am not a fan of PtP but would just like to figure out what happened since that post indicated something different than your current thread. He tried to sell us an expensive hot water heater and came in under the guise of a "federally sponsored energy audit." When I learned who he was, after questioning his affiliation, I told him about the thread on ToTV. He promptly pulled out a copy of your email stating the situation was rectified. If it is not, then he may be using that email to try to clean up the bad rep he got from ToTV when it just isn't the truth.