The Great Divide

[Dorebea]

(Reposting from yesterday. I am new at posting items and it seems this originally ended up in the ‘non-villages’ section)

I am well aware of the pros / cons voiced by the ‘North vs South of 44’ constituents. I think everyone would agree though that what makes TV appealing regardless of where you live is the beauty of the area. Two recent events i think are threatening this and accentuating this divide: 1) creation of a separate PWAC for CDDs 12+, and 2 ) I read that CDD12 is now employing a special hearing master to review resident aesthetic related applications in lieu of ARC. A CDD1 supervisor voiced concern that this approach may give more emphasis to the legality of requests vs the aesthetic impact. I agree with him. Part of the uniqueness of TV is due to the rules to maintain visual consistency of the homes and villages. I see these two changes in particular (what can be changed per home and what / how the common areas will be maintained) as having a big impact on the overall community. Could TV be headed for a more formal split into two Villages (north & south)? What’s to stop changes in amenity fees between the two areas and potential additional fees for those from one area to use the amenities in the other?

How can one or. more CDDs decide to just do their own thing at the expense of the rest of the community? At a minimum the ARC replacement should require a approval from a majority of all CDD’s just as the PWAC split did. And …in both cases a process to enforce some level of overall consistency is needed.

Interested in your thoughts on this movement. Are you concerned?

[Garywt]

(Reposting from yesterday. I am new at posting items and it seems this originally ended up in the ‘non-villages’ section)

I am well aware of the pros / cons voiced by the ‘North vs South of 44’ constituents. I think everyone would agree though that what makes TV appealing regardless of where you live is the beauty of the area. Two recent events i think are threatening this and accentuating this divide: 1) creation of a separate PWAC for CDDs 12+, and 2 ) I read that CDD12 is now employing a special hearing master to review resident aesthetic related applications in lieu of ARC. A CDD1 supervisor voiced concern that this approach may give more emphasis to the legality of requests vs the aesthetic impact. I agree with him. Part of the uniqueness of TV is due to the rules to maintain visual consistency of the homes and villages. I see these two changes in particular (what can be changed per home and what / how the common areas will be maintained) as having a big impact on the overall community. Could TV be headed for a more formal split into two Villages (north & south)? What’s to stop changes in amenity fees between the two areas and potential additional fees for those from one area to use the amenities in the other?

How can one or. more CDDs decide to just do their own thing at the expense of the rest of the community? At a minimum the ARC replacement should require a approval from a majority of all CDD’s just as the PWAC split did. And …in both cases a process to enforce some level of overall consistency is needed.

Interested in your thoughts on this movement. Are you concerned?

For the most part I don’t pay attention to all these different groups other than the one to covers my neighborhood. What one does or doesn’t do has nothing to do with me. As long as I can live in my house, drive my golf cart and go to the various centers, restaurants and shopping all is good with me. If the north and south as you call them is different then they are different. Does not change what I do day to day.

[Escape Artist]

(Reposting from yesterday. I am new at posting items and it seems this originally ended up in the ‘non-villages’ section)

I am well aware of the pros / cons voiced by the ‘North vs South of 44’ constituents. I think everyone would agree though that what makes TV appealing regardless of where you live is the beauty of the area. Two recent events i think are threatening this and accentuating this divide: 1) creation of a separate PWAC for CDDs 12+, and 2 ) I read that CDD12 is now employing a special hearing master to review resident aesthetic related applications in lieu of ARC. A CDD1 supervisor voiced concern that this approach may give more emphasis to the legality of requests vs the aesthetic impact. I agree with him. Part of the uniqueness of TV is due to the rules to maintain visual consistency of the homes and villages. I see these two changes in particular (what can be changed per home and what / how the common areas will be maintained) as having a big impact on the overall community. Could TV be headed for a more formal split into two Villages (north & south)? What’s to stop changes in amenity fees between the two areas and potential additional fees for those from one area to use the amenities in the other?

How can one or. more CDDs decide to just do their own thing at the expense of the rest of the community? At a minimum the ARC replacement should require a approval from a majority of all CDD’s just as the PWAC split did. And …in both cases a process to enforce some level of overall consistency is needed.

Interested in your thoughts on this movement. Are you concerned?

It would help if you didn't use so many acronyms - PWAC, CDD1, CDD12 . It's confusing for us newbies. :)

Do you mean to say that one part of The Villages will have different rules and regulations than the other? And this might cause friction and animosity between residents living on either side of the Great Divide?

Ah, the eternal and emotionally charged battle between North and South (just don't erect any statues). :icon_wink:

[Toymeister]

I see the establishment of two PWACs as a good thing. The areas and the buildings covered by the PWACs were built, and will be built, at different times.

Let me explain. The PWAC north of 44 is on average 13 (+/-) years old. The PWAC south of 44 hasn't reached its median age but it's likely it will be 2028. A spread of 20 years.

If something arises in the north PWAC that requires an expenditure from the PWAC, why should the areas with the newest facilities (lowest risk) pay for the older areas?

Let's look at this a different way. The PWAC's reserves (pile 'o cash) are accumulated when the facilities are new as not much breaks. Why should the newest areas miss this accumulation of reserves phase? Why would they almost immediately go into the spend phase by 'supporting' the older CDDs?

None of this is a us Vs. them argument, this is straight forward accounting and risk analysis.

[Dotneko]

I see the establishment of two PWACs as a good thing. The areas and the buildings covered by the PWACs were built, and we be built, at different times.

Let me explain. The PWAC north of 44 is on average 13 (+/-) years old. The PWAC south of 44 hasn't reached its median age but it's likely it will be 2028. A spread of 20 years.

If something arises in the north PWAC that requires an expenditure from the PWAC, why should the areas with the newest facilities (lowest risk) pay for the older areas?

Isnt it like social security? We need new workers coming in to keep the benefits flowing to the oldsters? Kind of like a giant ponzi scheme?

[Toymeister]

Isnt it like social security? We need new workers coming in to keep the benefits flowing to the oldsters? Kind of like a giant ponzi scheme?

Unlike social security the PWAC north of 44 has real cash reserves and a plan to maintain reserves.

Let's make this analysis a bit more personal.

What if your homeowners policy was not based on the age of your roof but the average age of your village roof's? Your CDD? Your PWAC?

If it was your PWAC, do you think the newest homeowners would agree with this risk rating or would they get a different insurance company?

[frose]

Rules here are outdated and inconsistent. They should be reviewed and updated.

[DAVES]

(Reposting from yesterday. I am new at posting items and it seems this originally ended up in the ‘non-villages’ section)

I am well aware of the pros / cons voiced by the ‘North vs South of 44’ constituents. I think everyone would agree though that what makes TV appealing regardless of where you live is the beauty of the area. Two recent events i think are threatening this and accentuating this divide: 1) creation of a separate PWAC for CDDs 12+, and 2 ) I read that CDD12 is now employing a special hearing master to review resident aesthetic related applications in lieu of ARC. A CDD1 supervisor voiced concern that this approach may give more emphasis to the legality of requests vs the aesthetic impact. I agree with him. Part of the uniqueness of TV is due to the rules to maintain visual consistency of the homes and villages. I see these two changes in particular (what can be changed per home and what / how the common areas will be maintained) as having a big impact on the overall community. Could TV be headed for a more formal split into two Villages (north & south)? What’s to stop changes in amenity fees between the two areas and potential additional fees for those from one area to use the amenities in the other?

How can one or. more CDDs decide to just do their own thing at the expense of the rest of the community? At a minimum the ARC replacement should require a approval from a majority of all CDD’s just as the PWAC split did. And …in both cases a process to enforce some level of overall consistency is needed.

Interested in your thoughts on this movement. Are you concerned?

My view, you can choose to be happy or miserable anywhere. Some look at a lawn and see weeds. Others look at the same lawn and see how nice it looks.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

And after that nice Post I’m never coming back to this thread again because it’s going to go straight down the rabbit hole

[Kenswing]

Didn't I just read in the paper that at this time there will be no splitting into two PWAC's? Something about District 7 not voting..

[njbchbum]

Rules here are outdated and inconsistent. They should be reviewed and updated.

Which rules? How do you suggest they change? Will you be running for a position of authority that will allow you to change those rules or leave it to others to do?

[Dorebea]

I

…Let's look at this a different way. The PWAC's reserves (pile 'o cash) are accumulated when the facilities are new as not much breaks. Why should the newest areas miss this accumulation of reserves phase? Why would they almost immediately go into the spend phase by 'supporting' the older CDDs?
.

Good point. What caught my eye more than the potential PWAC split is the change CDD12 made to replace their ARC approval process with the ‘special hearing master’. Overtime it seems that approach will affect visual consistency across villages. It also appears that these two changes are incremental steps down a slippery slope. The governing processes that are in place clearly have been effective in the growth and attraction of the community. My thought is all changes to the governing processes should require approval of all areas (as the PWAC split is) and not be made unilaterally by any one CDD.

[Bill14564]

Didn't I just read in the paper that at this time there will be no splitting into two PWAC's? Something about District 7 not voting..

I read the same thing.

From what I can see on the districtgov.org site, District 12 already has a Special Magistrate for Architectural Review as of 1 October.

[vintageogauge]

I say build a wall and make them pay for it. I'm with Garywt on this. I will note my thoughts on rule changes, if the rules mentioned are deed restrictions it's pretty hard to change those, maybe change the enforcement policies but not the restrictions themselves.

[frose]

I would love to run for a position, however I will not be here that long.. I can't wait to get out, this place is awful.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

I read the same thing.

From what I can see on the districtgov.org site, District 12 already has a Special Magistrate for Architectural Review as of 1 October.

As I understood it, the Special Magistrate is in place to handle disputes that aren't settled satisfactorily by the ARC. Not to replace the ARC, but as an adjunct to it.

[Bill14564]

As I understood it, the Special Magistrate is in place to handle disputes that aren't settled satisfactorily by the ARC. Not to replace the ARC, but as an adjunct to it.

I will find the link to the District 12 rules and post it later


District Adopted Rules, District 12 (https://www.districtgov.org/departments/community-standards/images/compliance-standards/District12_Rules.pdf): "District approval may be via a Special Magistrate for Architectural Review created by District Resolution or inter-local agreement in furtherance of the architectural review process."

District Adopted Rules, District 10 (https://www.districtgov.org/departments/community-standards/images/compliance-standards/District10_Rules.pdf?v=202011): The District approval may be via an Architectural Review Committee (ARC) created by District resolution or inter-local agreement.

[Luggage]

Each square is different, villas look different than homes, the million dollar homes are ridiculous compared to the $300,000 homes. It all doesn't really matter it's just plenty of the golf courses and pools to go around. I used to go down to Old Town in Orlando and across the street from them are some beautiful great yellow town home s . Nothing would please me further to see some real variety in the homes structures and colors that are being built instead of everything being the same. Back in New Jersey there was a senior community in toms River built on a circular plan with a north south divider road system but everything else in circles. You can get lost in the non-diversity of it just like levittown in Long Island.

[Joanne19335]

I would love to run for a position, however I will not be here that long.. I can't wait to get out, this place is awful.

Move to Bonneybrook, Lynhaven, Belvedere, Summerhill, or Tall Trees. You may change your mind.

[Joanne19335]

Each square is different, villas look different than homes, the million dollar homes are ridiculous compared to the $300,000 homes. It all doesn't really matter it's just plenty of the golf courses and pools to go around. I used to go down to Old Town in Orlando and across the street from them are some beautiful great yellow town home s . Nothing would please me further to see some real variety in the homes structures and colors that are being built instead of everything being the same. Back in New Jersey there was a senior community in toms River built on a circular plan with a north south divider road system but everything else in circles. You can get lost in the non-diversity of it just like levittown in Long Island.

Bravo! You hit it. Been to all the places you mentioned. I agree wholeheartedly!

[coffeebean]

Each square is different, villas look different than homes, the million dollar homes are ridiculous compared to the $300,000 homes. It all doesn't really matter it's just plenty of the golf courses and pools to go around. I used to go down to Old Town in Orlando and across the street from them are some beautiful great yellow town home s . Nothing would please me further to see some real variety in the homes structures and colors that are being built instead of everything being the same. Back in New Jersey there was a senior community in toms River built on a circular plan with a north south divider road system but everything else in circles. You can get lost in the non-diversity of it just like levittown in Long Island.

I grew up on Long Island so I'm very familiar with Levitt Homes. We lived in a brick ranch home (build by my grandfather and my Dad) but friends lived in Levitt Homes. I'm also familiar with Tom's River as I lived in Middletown, NJ for 16 years.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

I would love to run for a position, however I will not be here that long.. I can't wait to get out, this place is awful.

As they say “Don’t let the door…” 😝

[Tchrep]

I am also a newbie and ask that acronyms be first spelled out in full, followed by the acronym in parentheses. The use of the acronym can be used throughout the rest of the message
With that in mind, I will appreciate the explanation of what PWAC, CDD12 and ARC stand for. Thanks.

[Bill14564]

I am also a newbie and ask that acronyms be first spelled out in full, followed by the acronym in parentheses. The use of the acronym can be used throughout the rest of the message
With that in mind, I will appreciate the explanation of what PWAC, CDD12 and ARC stand for. Thanks.

List of acronyms (https://www.districtgov.org/images/Acronyms.pdf)from districtgov.org page

Very roughly:

PWAC: Project Wide Advisory Committee. Helps determine how to spend maintenance money.

CDD12: Community Development District 12. The set of homes defined to be in district 12 and the elected Supervisors governing them.

ARC: Architectural Review Committee. The Committee that approves your plans for modifications to the outside of your home (to include painting)

[Accidental1]

I am also a newbie and ask that acronyms be first spelled out in full, followed by the acronym in parentheses. The use of the acronym can be used throughout the rest of the message
With that in mind, I will appreciate the explanation of what PWAC, CDD12 and ARC stand for. Thanks.

Project Wide Advisory Committee (PWAC), Community Development District (CDD), Architectural Review Committee (ACC). You can find definitions on The Villages website by Googling "PWAC the villages" etc.

[vintageogauge]

I would love to run for a position, however I will not be here that long.. I can't wait to get out, this place is awful.

Would love to hear what the awful things are about being here as you are definitely in the minority. You'll probably tolerate being here for the winter months, right?

[Warcats]

Please explain in English as all these abbreviations are just in the process of being learned
Confused

[Stu from NYC]

Please explain in English as all these abbreviations are just in the process of being learned
Confused

Read the previous posts and you will be enlightened

[Dorebea]

As I understood it, the Special Magistrate is in place to handle disputes that aren't settled satisfactorily by the ARC. Not to replace the ARC, but as an adjunct to it.

From what I read it appears CDD 12 will have the ‘special hearing master’ review resident requests in lieu of ARC.

[coffeebean]

I would love to run for a position, however I will not be here that long.. I can't wait to get out, this place is awful.

Sorry you don't like it here. What is it about The Villages that you feel is "awful"?

[tophcfa]

As they say “Don’t let the door…” 😝

In the Villages, it’s “Don’t take out the gate on your way out……”