Stock Market Info

[Koapaka]

Interesting read.....



The wealthiest 10% of Americans own a record 89% of all U.S. stocks (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/the-wealthiest-10percent-of-americans-own-a-record-89percent-of-all-us-stocks.html)

[manaboutown]

We are losing our historically large middle class which is disheartening and destabilizing.

Coming Apart by Charles Murray: 9780307453433 | PenguinRandomHouse.com: Books (https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/119020/coming-apart-by-charles-murray/)

[billethkid]

The statistics on the top 1% and 10%, plus the other 90% haven't changed much over the years.

[manaboutown]

Gallup's measure of consumer stock ownership is based on a question asking respondents about any individual stocks they may own, as well as stocks included in a mutual fund or retirement savings account, like a 401(k) or IRA.

Stock ownership is strongly correlated with household income, formal education, age and race.
Stock ownership was more common from 2001 to 2008 when an average 62% of U.S. adults said they owned stock -- but it fell after the 2007-2009 recession and has not fully rebounded.

In 2021, the percentages owning stock range from highs of 89% of adults in households earning $100,000 or more and 84% of those with postgraduate education to lows of 24% of those in households earning less than $40,000 and 29% of Hispanic adults.

From: What Percentage of Americans Owns Stock? (https://news.gallup.com/poll/266807/percentage-americans-owns-stock.aspx)

The big stock market dive of 2006 had a lot to do with middle income folks leaving the stock market in droves. Many if not most have shied away aver since IMHO.

[collie1228]

That same group pays over 70% of federal income taxes too.

[manaboutown]

That same group pays over 70% of federal income taxes too.

The top 10 percent of earners bore responsibility for over 71 percent of all income taxes paid and the top 25 percent paid 87 percent of all income taxes.

From: Who Pays Income Taxes? - Foundation - National Taxpayers Union (https://www.ntu.org/foundation/tax-page/who-pays-income-taxes)

[DAVES]

For most human issues there is a line to illustrate it. For statistics there are at least two good ones. Figures don't lie but liars an figure. Another one Figures don't lie but it you choke them hard enough you can make them say anything you want.

As far as the spread between the wealthy and the middle class, this is not just in the United States but a world wide phenomenon.

There are many reasons. In the US post WWII we were a manufacturing powerhouse.
Working in the auto industry, 80% of the worlds cars were made in the US. Working on an assembly line, due to unions would make you middle class. Today, much of that work is done in foreign countries and or robots.

Technology thief a common topic. When, you manufacture something. you can sell the same thing over and over again. You have trained labor, tools and factories. Technology is easy to reverse engineer. They are doing it, how can we copy it or even make it better.

As much as people bemoan what was, we cannot go backwards. We must see where we are and decide where we want to go.

Taxes and economics if we dare to see reality. If you tax something you will have less of it. If, you subsidize something you will have more of it. The most complex issue are truly simple if we dare to see them.

[Timothyimitchell]

I am very cautious in regard to the stock market today, and anything related to it.

[lkagele]

The big stock market dive of 2006 had a lot to do with middle income folks leaving the stock market in droves. Many if not most have shied away aver since IMHO.

And they missed out on the wildest bull market ride in history. The Dow fell from 18,000 to 9,100 due to the recession. Investors that stayed in or got back in after the Dow bottomed have seen the Dow go from 9,100 to over 35,000. Mostly fueled by the Federal Reserve monetary policy so I'm sure everything is under control......

[jdulej]

The top 10 percent of earners bore responsibility for over 71 percent of all income taxes paid and the top 25 percent paid 87 percent of all income taxes.

From: Who Pays Income Taxes? - Foundation - National Taxpayers Union (https://www.ntu.org/foundation/tax-page/who-pays-income-taxes)

Wow, now I really feel bad for the rich. All the money they spend buying politicians and influence, and they still get screwed over on taxes. They are either very unlucky or very stupid.

[manaboutown]

And they missed out on the wildest bull market ride in history. The Dow fell from 18,000 to 9,100 due to the recession. Investors that stayed in or got back in after the Dow bottomed have seen the Dow go from 9,100 to over 35,000. Mostly fueled by the Federal Reserve monetary policy so I'm sure everything is under control......

I agree.

Back in the early seventies I had a wise boss who when the market sank advised me to invest. I had only a few spare dollars but I did so. I am very grateful to him.

Also I hung on in 2006, took on new positions and added to what I had. It has paid off big time.

[manaboutown]

Wow, now I really feel bad for the rich. All the money they spend buying politicians and influence, and they still get screwed over on taxes. They are either very unlucky or very stupid.

I too feel sorry for "the rich" because most of them have worked hard all their lives to create wealth while so many parasites, millstones, deadbeats and other forms of low life and cheats sit on their butts and immorally bleed them via confiscatory taxes misused and wasted to fund various types of ill-conceived welfare.

[jdulej]

I too feel sorry for "the rich" because most of them have worked hard all their lives to create wealth while so many parasites, millstones, deadbeats and other forms of low life and cheats sit on their butts and immorally bleed them via confiscatory taxes misused and wasted to fund various types of ill-conceived welfare.
I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. They don’t.

[Caymus]

Wow, now I really feel bad for the rich. All the money they spend buying politicians and influence, and they still get screwed over on taxes. They are either very unlucky or very stupid.

Some people would consider anybody able to afford a home in The Villages rich.

[manaboutown]

I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. They don’t.

Of course they lose sleep over it. Why wouldn't they? They have been and continue to be forced to support multiple generations worthless shiftless cheats.

[jdulej]

Of course they lose sleep over it. Why wouldn't they? They have been and continue to be forced to support multiple generations worthless shiftless cheats.

Well, since most federal tax money goes for defense, social security, and medicare do we assume that is where the shiftless cheats are?

[manaboutown]

Well, since most federal tax money goes for defense, social security, and medicare do we assume that is where the shiftless cheats are?

It is not just federal tax; it is every form of tax. Ill conceived assistance programs, their enormous over staffed and overpaid inefficient bureaucracy, people who cheat the system, Medicaid, poor school systems with huge numbers of overhead supervisors, welfare deadbeats, lots of pork.

[DAVES]

I am very cautious in regard to the stock market today, and anything related to it.

Everyone is. Even people who think they have no money in the stock market may not realize that if they have a pension, it is surely paid for by stock market investments.

My view, due to manipulated interest rates and inflation, we have no other choice.

[DAVES]

Wow, now I really feel bad for the rich. All the money they spend buying politicians and influence, and they still get screwed over on taxes. They are either very unlucky or very stupid.

We are being manipulated. The rich. That concept is sadly simple. Actually it has existed throughout history. Take from him and give to me. The definition of rich for most people is anyone who has more than I do.

[DAVES]

Well, since most federal tax money goes for defense, social security, and medicare do we assume that is where the shiftless cheats are?

Personal experience, it is everywhere. As said elsewhere people think cut him not me.
Defense-oh no don't cut me. Social security-oh no don't cut me. Medicare-oh no don't cut me. We are so overspent, we toss about numbers of trillions. I am one of the few that realize I do not comprehend one trillion let alone 30 of them.

It has gotten so out of control that a million, a few million is petty cash.

[Michael G.]

All this doesn't mean a hill of beans to me cuz once your government comes and takes
all your savings, CD's 401K's, and savings all this will be history.

[retiredguy123]

Well, since most federal tax money goes for defense, social security, and medicare do we assume that is where the shiftless cheats are?
I worked as an Inspector General for the Federal Government, and those are the three biggies in terms of waste, fraud, and abuse. Medicare fraud and waste is rampant, many Social Security disability claims are fraudulent, and there is enormous wasteful spending in defense.

[jdulej]

I worked as an Inspector General for the Federal Government, and those are the three biggies in terms of waste, fraud, and abuse. Medicare fraud and waste is rampant, many Social Security disability claims are fraudulent, and there is enormous wasteful spending in defense.

I agree, there is plenty of waste and cheating. Yet, currently there is an effort to get more IRS agents to enforce the law and guess who is screaming bloody murder? (hint - it isn't the Dems)

[Bogie Shooter]

I worked as an Inspector General for the Federal Government, and those are the three biggies in terms of waste, fraud, and abuse. Medicare fraud and waste is rampant, many Social Security disability claims are fraudulent, and there is enormous wasteful spending in defense.

What did you do to stop this….?

[retiredguy123]

What did you do to stop this….?
An Inspector General has full reign to investigate and inspect all aspects of an organization, and to compile a detailed report outlining the facts, events, and circumstances, and to make recommendations. Unfortunately, the IG has no enforcement power to compel an organization or individual to implement the recommendations. So, I wrote a lot of embarrassing reports and refused to sugarcoat anything, but the recommendations were often ignored by the bureaucrats. Also, much of what many IG reports reveal is wasteful Government spending, which is not illegal. That is how the system works.

[Timothyimitchell]

All this doesn't mean a hill of beans to me cuz once your government comes and takes
all your savings, CD's 401K's, and savings all this will be history.

Just.
Might.
Happen.

[Bogie Shooter]

An Inspector General has full reign to investigate and inspect all aspects of an organization, and to compile a detailed report outlining the facts, events, and circumstances, and to make recommendations. Unfortunately, the IG has no enforcement power to compel an organization or individual to implement the recommendations. So, I wrote a lot of embarrassing reports and refused to sugarcoat anything, but the recommendations were often ignored by the bureaucrats. Also, much of what many IG reports reveal is wasteful Government spending, which is not illegal. That is how the system works.

So, did you ever have a sense of accomplishment? Or just pushing paper?

[jdulej]

Just.
Might.
Happen.

I truly hope people don't lose any sleep over these fears. It simply isn't going to happen. At least, as long as you are not a crook.

[retiredguy123]

So, did you ever have a sense of accomplishment? Or just pushing paper?
Yes, occasionally, when I received a complaint from an employee who was getting the runaround or feet dragging by a lazy financial or human resources person who wouldn't do their job and approve a valid travel voucher or other request. Those people were were very sorry they ever got a call from me. One advantage to being an IG is that they have full access to everyone and everything in the organization. You cannot blow off the IG.

[DAVES]

I agree, there is plenty of waste and cheating. Yet, currently there is an effort to get more IRS agents to enforce the law and guess who is screaming bloody murder? (hint - it isn't the Dems)

Interesting to me-reality. Remember Herman Cain and his 999 slogan? The reality he pilfered that from Steve Forbes who said the number was 12-12-12. Cain went on to change his flat tax to allow the don't take from me sacred mortgage deduction.

I've read that our tax system employs over a million people. A flat tax would eliminate not only a major source of power but say half those jobs. Opinion, mine is we need a far simpler tax code. It is now 86,000 pages. I was in my own business. I had several inquiries, they were simple to explain and went away. A full audit, you can bet they will find something in the 86,000 pages. If, not you can claim harassment.

Few know there is a line on the tax form where you can choose to pay more than you owe. I wonder if anyone uses that line. This IRS, probably would question the mental competence, sanity, of the person completing the form.

[DAVES]

I truly hope people don't lose any sleep over these fears. It simply isn't going to happen. At least, as long as you are not a crook.

Mind manipulation has always been so. Both hate and fear are powerful yet mindless emotions. Endless examples throughout history.

[rsmurano]

Not everybody should or can be in the stock market. There is a high rate of people that cannot afford a $500 expense let alone putting cash away each month for retirement.
Most people are wired that when they see they are losing money in the market, they sell which is the worst thing you can do over the long run. These same people wait until the market is all the way back before getting back in the market, which is known as buy high and sell low.
Invest early in life, (dollar cost averaging) get into good index funds (low fees, more stable over long term), don't look at your net worth on a daily basis, and don't sell during a dip (big or small), actually buy more if possible (average length of a recession is 18-24 months before the market comes back).

[Luggage]

A famous president once they asked are you better off today than yesterday. I would have to argue other than covid oh, most people are much better off today than yesterday. The stock market itself was up 300% compared to 20 years ago. Home prices her up anywhere from 20 to 100% in less than 2 years which is terrible for my one son who's still looking for a house last year he said he could have bought one house for half a million I'm of this year it's $1000000. Mortgage rates are at historic lows back in the 70s I was paying 12% and right now most people are paying between 2 and 3%. The only thing like you're totally tell you is that yes there are shortages in the supply chain but from what I'm reading it's not because most manufacturers can't make the product put that we as a nation are buying so much more than last year. Statistics tell me that retail is up about 15% overall oh, that's due to all the money that is pouring into the economy and you know the reason for that which I won't get into. Our economy is way overheated and I protect nothing but the stock market going up for the next two or three years

[MandoMan]

Interesting read.....



The wealthiest 10% of Americans own a record 89% of all U.S. stocks (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/the-wealthiest-10percent-of-americans-own-a-record-89percent-of-all-us-stocks.html)

Yes, the wealthiest 10% may own 89% of all stocks, but I read in the NYTimes yesterday that 52% of Americans either own stock directly or through mutual funds. The rest could, too, and they should. For 34 years, until I retired last year, my employer and I each put a certain percentage of my salary into mutual funds through TIAA. My last few years, that meant that about $350 a month was automatically transferred from my paycheck. We sent all our kids to parochial schools and paid the tuition. We gave 10% to our church. Vacations were just to visit parents. We never owned a new car. We rarely went out to eat. But every month we invested. Between the fall of 2016 and today, those mutual funds have nearly doubled in value. They are up 17% this year during the pandemic, and nearly that much last year. Now I take out more every month from my mutual funds than I get in Social Security, but they still keep going up, even though I am definitely middle class.

These days I see lots of people who probably don’t have a penny in mutual funds driving brand new trucks and SUVs that cost over $50,000. They may be paying close to $1,000 a month in loans and insurance. If instead they drove a smaller car they bought used and put the difference into highly rated mutual funds, they too could be watching their investments grow and could be among those who prosper even during a pandemic. The article you linked to said that 89% of people with a post-graduate education own stocks or mutual funds. That includes me. That makes a gigantic difference when you retire. But you don’t have to have a college degree to invest. You just have to think long term. That’s the only way I was able to buy a home in The Villages when I retired.

[Bandb875]

Seems the lesson is that if you want to get rich do what the rich do. Work, live within your means, save, invest. Don't get that tattoo, invest instead.

[Ski Bum]

Most people don't realize that they do actually "own" stock. If you have an insurance policy, you own stock. Insurance companies do not stuff your premiums in a mattress, they invest it. If they didn't, your premiums would be higher. There are many other examples. If Ford couldn't access capital buy selling stock, you couldn't buy a car. Point is, everyone benefits by a strong stock market, whether directly invested or not.

[Lonnieme2]

Yes, the wealthiest 10% may own 89% of all stocks, but I read in the NYTimes yesterday that 52% of Americans either own stock directly or through mutual funds. The rest could, too, and they should. For 34 years, until I retired last year, my employer and I each put a certain percentage of my salary into mutual funds through TIAA. My last few years, that meant that about $350 a month was automatically transferred from my paycheck. We sent all our kids to parochial schools and paid the tuition. We gave 10% to our church. Vacations were just to visit parents. We never owned a new car. We rarely went out to eat. But every month we invested. Between the fall of 2016 and today, those mutual funds have nearly doubled in value. They are up 17% this year during the pandemic, and nearly that much last year. Now I take out more every month from my mutual funds than I get in Social Security, but they still keep going up, even though I am definitely middle class.

These days I see lots of people who probably don’t have a penny in mutual funds driving brand new trucks and SUVs that cost over $50,000. They may be paying close to $1,000 a month in loans and insurance. If instead they drove a smaller car they bought used and put the difference into highly rated mutual funds, they too could be watching their investments grow and could be among those who prosper even during a pandemic. The article you linked to said that 89% of people with a post-graduate education own stocks or mutual funds. That includes me. That makes a gigantic difference when you retire. But you don’t have to have a college degree to invest. You just have to think long term. That’s the only way I was able to buy a home in The Villages when I retired.

I am 48 years old and have owned my home for 15 years. Bought it as a single woman after my divorce and although the loan company said that I could have double what I was borrowing, I went with a $145,000 modest home that is now worth $285,000. (We're talking GA folks, not New York or LA!) :-) My husband now lives in the home with me and within the last few years we saved up and paid cash for all new Hardy Plank siding, new architectural shingle roof, and new large deck on the back of the house. The house is almost paid off and we will be moving to The Villages in 4 years when I retire. I will be done working for good before my 53rd birthday. My Honda Civic is a 2012 and so is my husband's Toyota Prius. I will continue to drive my Honda until the wheels fall off or someone totals it, which is what happened to the previous one.
I agree with the comment above. Too many people are about the here and now. I have been planning for retirement for a very long time. I was a teenager visiting my grandparents near Daytona Beach and knew that it was the life that I wanted and have had the image of retirement set in my mind for a long time. Please know that your children and grandchildren are watching and learning from you!
I work hard and with all the overtime that I get being included in my retirement calculation (monthly pension) and the $300K+ that I have right now in my investment accounts, plus my husband's pension, etc. we will live well in The Villages... not in a million dollar home but in a $350 - $400k home and this is good enough for us.
It all comes down to sacrifices made when a person is younger instead of him / her living totally in the here and now and spending like there is no tomorrow. Also, a wonderful life in older age can be had without feeling deprived in earlier years. My husband and I went to New Orleans in June and have been on two vacations this year to Mexico. Will be going to Panama (the country) for two weeks next month. Will be in THE VILLAGES :-) in December for 8 days and back to Mexico in January for 11 days. It is a give and take with the most important part being that money goes to investments and savings before the paycheck ever reaches the bank. What is left over is what is used for play and enjoyment in the present.

[Lchughart@gmail.com]

Basically the people that worked hard and invested wisely deserve on in stocks the people that didn’t don’t.

[lkagele]

Seems the lesson is that if you want to get rich do what the rich do. Work, live within your means, save, invest. Don't get that tattoo, invest instead.

But I like my tattoos......

I'd advise young adults to take advantage of employer matched retirement programs. I worked for 7 different companies. Every time I moved to a different company, I transferred the 401K to a self directed IRA. I lived in the Pacific NW and early investments in MSFT, SBUX and AMZN turned out to be home runs. Sometimes a little luck helps.

[taruffi57]

Conclusion: They are smart. In 40+ yrs. in the stock mkt., our investments have multipled remarkably - from just letting it ride.

[bilclif]

This headline is typical fake news. The article actually states that 89% of INDIVIDUALLY owned stocks are owned by the top 10%. The middle class owns their stocks in 401k's and mutual funds, this is not news. We all know this so is their any purpose to this article from CNBC other than to mislead the public.

[DAVES]

Some people would consider anybody able to afford a home in The Villages rich.

Rich is not a line. For most, the definition of rich is anyone who has more than I do.
From that comes the logic of tax him and give to me.

[DAVES]

Conclusion: They are smart. In 40+ yrs. in the stock mkt., our investments have multipled remarkably - from just letting it ride.

The most complex issues are truly simple. I recall an old book, that said you should save 10% of your income. Simple to understand hard to do BUT
More truly simple stuff long term the stock market grows 7-8% the past 15 years have been better than that but at 8% it takes 9 years to double your money so if, you start at 20 and live till 70 it is 50 years so it will double 5.5x

10,000x2=20,000 (1) is 40,000 (2) is 80,000 (3) is 160,000 (4) is 320000 (5) is 640,000 (6) 1280000 compounding is a powerful force.

[tvbound]

All this doesn't mean a hill of beans to me cuz once your government comes and takes
all your savings, CD's 401K's, and savings all this will be history.

With apologies to Rick Blaine, in one of the greatest movies ever - "we'll always have tinfoil."

[DAVES]

But I like my tattoos......

I'd advise young adults to take advantage of employer matched retirement programs. I worked for 7 different companies. Every time I moved to a different company, I transferred the 401K to a self directed IRA. I lived in the Pacific NW and early investments in MSFT, SBUX and AMZN turned out to be home runs. Sometimes a little luck helps.


As far as young adults. Some can learn from others some can't. People there are those that see a sign that says hot and they must touch it to be sure. Same with wet paint.

Another strange concept for many tomorrow i will be older than today.

Employer match, I try to never use the term stupid but not taking advantage of an employer match is stupid. It is tax free income till you withdraw the money. A 50% match is a guaranteed 50% return on your investment the first year. I'm not aware of anything else that does that legally with no risk.

As far as luck. Everyone gets luck both good and bad. Too many, in fact most do not see opportunity and step over or even on it.