Slow pace of play on championship courses again

[ncr2482]

During the past 8 days, I have played 4 championship golf courses. (Cane, Mallory, Glenview and Tierra Del Sol). The pace of play has been painfully slow (over 4 1/2 hours and one time 4:45 minutes). My groups have spoken to the Club manager each time. Mostly they acknowledge the pace of play has been slow and the ambassadors have attempted to get the offending groups to move along, but seem to be unable to do so. The ambassadors are in a no win situation, they have unhappy golfers because we wait at every tee box and on the fairways to hit our second shots, etc and slow golfers who don't care they are behind schedule. At TDS on Friday, at the turn the starter did get the Asst. Manager out on the course to speed things up. Playing Cane yesterday (Sunday) we teed off on Jacaranda, and when we reached the second hole we encountered 3 other groups on the hole. The ambassador indicated in order to speed up play all groups have been instructed to drive 15 ft. up to the greens. It did help a little, but still the round of golf took more than 4 1/2 hours. Just venting, but if this is an indication of what we have in store for us once the seasonal residents return, it will be a very long season. I hope tomorrow the round at Cane Garden won't be as slow.

[Bob45]

We closed on a CYV this spring and will be down for our first full winter in November. The wife and I bought golf clubs with the hope of trying to golf. From what I am reading here it looks like our lack of experience will hold things up and will upset many. Not wanting to cause problems are there any suggestions? What do the newbees do? We were all beginners at one time.
Bob

[ajbrown]

Time of day? Coming up on the end of summer rates. Afternoon rates are very cheap and may attract less experienced golfers for a few last swings??

Slow play is an issue at every almost every club I have played, not isolated to TV. The winters in TV are no worse that anywhere else from my experience. What you have described is worse than my experiences in past winters in TV.

Like I have said in other threads about conditions and overseeding, I will remain hopeful.

[Tom Hannon]

I suggest newbees play the shorter 9 hole courses and make sure they play with an experience couple who can give the beginner tips on how to speed up play

[ajbrown]

We closed on a CYV this spring and will be down for our first full winter in November. The wife and I bought golf clubs with the hope of trying to golf. From what I am reading here it looks like our lack of experience will hold things up and will upset many. Not wanting to cause problems are there any suggestions? What do the newbees do? We were all beginners at one time.
Bob

One rule I remember:

Show up, keep up and shut up!

Oh wait, that was the tips for being a caddy :jester:

Because you are a beginner does not mean you will be slow. Google around for golf pace of play, lots of good information. Once you understand some basic etiquette about pace of play you should have no trouble. Here is an example:

http://golf.about.com/od/golfetiquette/ht/paceofplay.htm

Get your feet wet on the executive courses. The big advantage there is if you feel you are holding up play, pick up your ball move it up the fairway. Since it is free, it does not matter.

Other tricks I have seen:


Always use a tee even off the fairway until you feel confident hitting
Pick up after double par
Play a scramble with your wife. You each hit, select the best shot and you each hit from there.

You will be fine, learn etiquette, learn to play, enjoy the journey of the game.

[Indydealmaker]

One rule I remember:



Oh wait, that was the tips for being a caddy :jester:

Because you are a beginner does not mean you will be slow. Google around for golf pace of play, lots of good information. Once you understand some basic etiquette about pace of play you should have no trouble. Here is an example:

http://golf.about.com/od/golfetiquette/ht/paceofplay.htm

Get your feet wet on the executive courses. The big advantage there is if you feel you are holding up play, pick up your ball move it up the fairway. Since it is free, it does not matter.

Other tricks I have seen:


Always use a tee even off the fairway until you feel confident hitting
Pick up after double par
Play a scramble with your wife. You each hit, select the best shot and you each hit from there.

You will be fine, learn etiquette, learn to play, enjoy the journey of the game.

Bravo! A reasonable proactive response. Golf is supposed to enjoyable. All too many golfers want to fly through the game so that they can go. . . where? The PGA has published that 4 to 4.5 hours for a country club type course is a normal speed (about 15 minutes per hole). See http://www.playgolfamerica.com/Graphics/info_devo/firstswing_beginning_to_play.pdf

[aljetmet]

[QUOTE=ncr2482;298446]During the past 8 days, I have played 4 championship golf courses. (Cane, Mallory, Glenview and Tierra Del Sol). The pace of play has been painfully slow (over 4 1/2 hours and one time 4:45 minutes). My groups have spoken to the Club manager each time. Mostly they acknowledge the pace of play has been slow and the ambassadors have attempted to get the offending groups to move along, but seem to be unable to do so. The ambassadors are in a no win situation, they have unhappy golfers because we wait at every tee box and on the fairways to hit our second shots, etc and slow golfers who don't care they are behind schedule. At TDS on Friday, at the turn the starter did get the Asst. Manager out on the course to speed things up. Playing Cane yesterday (Sunday) we teed off on Jacaranda, and when we reached the second hole we encountered 3 other groups on the hole. The ambassador indicated in order to speed up play all groups have been instructed to drive 15 ft. up to the greens. It did help a little, but still the round of golf took more than 4 1/2 hours. Just venting, but if this is an indication of what we have in store for us once the seasonal residents return, it will be a very long season. I hope tomorrow the round at Cane Garden won't be as slow.[/QUOTE

How many were in your group? 4 and half hours where I play is very good.
I was in a twosome following a foursome and it was dreadful on Saturday.
Can't wait to be able to play every day. I'm soooo jealous. I guess in Utopia things could be so rough! :wave:

[homeball]

FYI, already begun on October 1st, Lifestyle Preview visits are now being offered for a maximum of two weeks instead of the customary max of six nights . And this is at $100 per nite for a couple. Additional couple in the same house is an additional $50. So, do the math. That's some bargain for one or two couples for a two week vacation, with coupons, golf cart and all. So, don't you think the golf courses are going to get crowded. And the birds haven't returned yet. There you go!

[LuvItHere]

Bob45 - that was good advice above, from the former caddie. If you start to hold up others, just pick up your ball and move on. The idea of playing a "best ball" with your spouse is good too.

And don't agonize and pray over every shot for 3 minutes like some golfers, good or bad, do, like their lives are depending on it. Sometimes new golfers hear so many criteria like "keep your head down" etc. that they're processing everything except "just hit the ball".

It's supposed to be fun, and you'll have fun when you hit some shots that sail high and straight toward the pin.

[ncr2482]

FYI- Recommended pace of play on TV Championship courses in approx. 4 hours and 15 minutes (per the scorecards). On the card, each hole has the pace of play time. Someone asked the question regarding the number of players in my group. The TDS group was a threesome and naturally we factor that into the equation. I brought this issue up because up until last week we could play a round in under 4 hours. ...but recently the rounds have been more than 4 1/2 hours, closer to 4 3/4 to 5 hours. My groups play in the morning. One of the Cane ambassadors was guessing that many non-priority players are playing before the rates increase on October 15th. Everyone in our group (3 foursomes) on Sunday agreed that might be the reason.Just a cautionary note to expect slower play.It won't keep me from playing golf, tomorrow playing at Cane Garden in the morning, I will keep you posted to see how it goes.

[iaudit]

Played at Havana in the afternoon wave today and finished in under four hours. I think we might have waited on two or three holes max to tee off.

[BowleesCreekYachtClub]

My wife and I moved to The Villages in February and had never played golf. We went to the Palmer Academy for for the 5 day New to Golf program. Following that we went to the Good Golf seminar. Finally we arrived on the local 9 hole course, talked to the starter and met the Amabassador and told them our situation because we did not want to get in the way of experienced golfers. They said we would have no problems - and we didn't - the Academy and the Good Golf seminar tell you how to get around the course as a beginner.

Evidently the problems occur with beginners who have never played before, have not been to the Academy or taken the Good Golf seminar and turn up on the course with a golf club in their hands for the very first time. So, if you are new to golf I would highly recommend you start out with the New To Golf program at the Palmer Academy - it has served us well.

[dwbevan]

Time of day? Coming up on the end of summer rates. Afternoon rates are very cheap and may attract less experienced golfers for a few last swings??

Slow play is an issue at every almost every club I have played, not isolated to TV. The winters in TV are no worse that anywhere else from my experience. What you have described is worse than my experiences in past winters in TV.

Like I have said in other threads about conditions and overseeding, I will remain hopeful.
I asked the same question in the "new members forum" in the thread "Newbie Golfers." There were some good suggestions from others. We decided to treat ourselves and take the New Golfers lessons as suggested - our goal is not to be great golfers or even good - we just want to have a good time and not interfere with others having a good time. We also wanted to know the "rules of etiquette." Other suggestions were to golf later in the day, use the executive courses (they are ranked as to difficulty), take the one hour etiquette course, pick up your ball and move on if you have tried and are holding up others, and ENJOY.

We are still "wannabees", but will be looking when we arrive later this month. Congratulations on your purchase AND good luck with golf!

[dwbevan]

My wife and I moved to The Villages in February and had never played golf. We went to the Palmer Academy for for the 5 day New to Golf program. Following that we went to the Good Golf seminar. Finally we arrived on the local 9 hole course, talked to the starter and met the Amabassador and told them our situation because we did not want to get in the way of experienced golfers. They said we would have no problems - and we didn't - the Academy and the Good Golf seminar tell you how to get around the course as a beginner.

Evidently the problems occur with beginners who have never played before, have not been to the Academy or taken the Good Golf seminar and turn up on the course with a golf club in their hands for the very first time. So, if you are new to golf I would highly recommend you start out with the New To Golf program at the Palmer Academy - it has served us well.
BowlesCreekYachtClub - where do we find the Good Golf Seminar - Is that also at Palmer and we will hear about it when we take our lessons? Thank you for sharing.

[Bogie Shooter]

BowlesCreekYachtClub - where do we find the Good Golf Seminar - Is that also at Palmer and we will hear about it when we take our lessons? Thank you for sharing.

Go here for info on Good Golf Seminar:
http://golfthevillages.com/golf-academy/newtogolf.asp

[Bosoxfan]

Bravo! A reasonable proactive response. Golf is supposed to enjoyable. All too many golfers want to fly through the game so that they can go. . . where? The PGA has published that 4 to 4.5 hours for a country club type course is a normal speed (about 15 minutes per hole). See http://www.playgolfamerica.com/Graphics/info_devo/firstswing_beginning_to_play.pdf

I've played alot of golf and don't understand anyone thinking 4 1/2 hours is a long time to play 18.If I'm on a championship course here and I'm averaging 15 minutes a hole I don't care what people behind me are thinking.Golf is a game to be enjoyed and not rushed through,Please all of you in a hurry stop & enjoy nature .You might just learn to relax.chilout

[Taj44]

...If I'm on a championship course here and I'm averaging 15 minutes a hole I don't care what people behind me are thinking.Golf is a game to be enjoyed and not rushed through,Please all of you in a hurry stop & enjoy nature .You might just learn to relax.chilout

On The Villages golf courses the recommended pace of play is 4 hours and 15 minutes which is faster than 15 minutes per hole. The recommended pace depends on the difficulty of the course, and our courses here are not that difficult compared to other courses I've played - just look at the course and slope ratings. Our job as golfers is to keep pace with the group in front of us. If you have open holes in front of you, you are being slow and are at fault. Period. I don't feel it is up to me to tell people how to enjoy the game, but personally I don't enjoy the game if I have to wait for some slow group in front of me. I lose my rythym and eventually my interest if it is very slow.

We've had this discussion many times - The Villages just does a poor job of dealing with these slow players. The rangers have no clout, and when we run into people who think it is their "right" to play at a slow pace, who don't care that there are people behind them who are waiting, there's not much anyone can do. I play a lot of golf, and on average we finish within the pace of play, but there are many times that the play is slower, and very few times are we able to get done in less than 4 hours, as we are waiting for the group(s) in front of us. At other courses I've played, if you are off the pace, you are given a warning, then told to pick up and move forward without finishing the hole if you continue to be slow. If they would at least give people warnings here, it would be nice.

If you are a new golfer, my suggestion would be to play later in the day - you are allowed to play 9 holes after a certain time; and/or wait until the snowbirds have left when the courses are not so clogged up, so you won't be holding people up. Thank you for asking for suggestions, and being so considerate.

[actor]

I've played alot of golf and don't understand anyone thinking 4 1/2 hours is a long time to play 18.If I'm on a championship course here and I'm averaging 15 minutes a hole I don't care what people behind me are thinking.Golf is a game to be enjoyed and not rushed through,Please all of you in a hurry stop & enjoy nature .You might just learn to relax.chilout

you have. You are supposed to keep pace with the group in front of you. Hope I don't have to play behind your group very often.

[l2ridehd]

Look at the slope and the distance of TV courses. They are easier and shorter then you are used to playing. I play a lot of championship courses and the pace of play should be maintained based on the course you are playing. Most TV 18 hole courses should be completed in 4:00 to 4:15 maximam. If you are taking longer play a shorter tee box. Yes you should enjoy the game, but so should every one else on the course. There are so many things you can do to speed up play. Take the course on golf etiquette, play ready golf, manage your time on each hole, move to the next tee box before recording scores, place your cart and clubs on the far side of the green close to the next tee, pick up after double bogie, first person in the cup should replace the flag, (after picking up their clubs and are ready to move to the next hole), and many other things you learn as you play. There are so many simple things everyone can do to speed up play if we are all considerate of the others on the course.

Saying I am going to enjoy the nature and to h*** with everyone else is not one of them.

[ncr2482]

:agree:Look at the slope and the distance of TV courses. They are easier and shorter then you are used to playing. I play a lot of championship courses and the pace of play should be maintained based on the course you are playing. Most TV 18 hole courses should be completed in 4:00 to 4:15 maximam. If you are taking longer play a shorter tee box. Yes you should enjoy the game, but so should every one else on the course. There are so many things you can do to speed up play. Take the course on golf etiquette, play ready golf, manage your time on each hole, move to the next tee box before recording scores, place your cart and clubs on the far side of the green close to the next tee, pick up after double bogie, first person in the cup should replace the flag, (after picking up their clubs and are ready to move to the next hole), and many other things you learn as you play. There are so many simple things everyone can do to speed up play if we are all considerate of the others on the course.

Saying I am going to enjoy the nature and to h*** with everyone else is not one of them.

Amen to that....

[Taj44]

Actor and l2ride - well said.

[BowleesCreekYachtClub]

BowlesCreekYachtClub - where do we find the Good Golf Seminar - Is that also at Palmer and we will hear about it when we take our lessons? Thank you for sharing.

As stated previously you can get the information at this address which you must cut and paste into your browser as it does not seem to link automatically.

http://golfthevillages.com/golf-in-the-villages/

The Good Golf School is FREE - always good.


Good Golf School Schedule
January through December 2010
9:00 a.m. – 11:00 a.m.
Wednesday Mornings – January through April
Thursday Mornings – May - December
Colony Cottage Regional Recreation Center
(Located on the corner of Morse Blvd. and Colony Blvd. near Rt. 466A)
January 6 January 20
February 3 February 17
March 3 March 17
April 7 April 21
May 20 June 17
July 22 August 19
September 16
October 7 October 21
November 4 November 18
December 2

[spk7951]

On The Villages golf courses the recommended pace of play is 4 hours and 15 minutes which is faster than 15 minutes per hole. The recommended pace depends on the difficulty of the course, and our courses here are not that difficult compared to other courses I've played - just look at the course and slope ratings. Our job as golfers is to keep pace with the group in front of us. If you have open holes in front of you, you are being slow and are at fault. Period. I don't feel it is up to me to tell people how to enjoy the game, but personally I don't enjoy the game if I have to wait for some slow group in front of me. I lose my rythym and eventually my interest if it is very slow.




While I do agree with you it does not always play out this way. Earlier this summer when playing on Kilimanjaro we had a group of four in front of us that was slow, or so we thought. The group in front of them was moving along quickly. On the 6th tee the ambassador showed up and asked if everything was ok. One of our group then complained about our concern for the slow play in front of us. The ambassador told us that while there was open fairway between the group in front of us and the next group he was not going to say anything because they were on time and the 1st group was ahead of schedule. But the more I thought about that I disagreed because sooner or later that day the trickle down effect was going to come into play.

[nitehawk]

maybe ambassadors should carry guns - before you play you should be told the pace of play and if this pace is not maintained you will be asked (told) to leave the course.

[Bogie Shooter]

maybe ambassadors should carry guns - before you play you should be told the pace of play and if this pace is not maintained you will be asked (told) to leave the course.

Theres that gun thing again.

[golf2140]

We played Cane yesterday afternoon. We waited on every hole. Toward the end of the round the group in front had at least two open holes. The courses are packed because of renters and birds returning. Also there are some course closures for over seeding. Hope it gets back to normal soon.

[BogeyBoy]

Our group played over the weekend. We were never slowed down by the group in front of us, but there was a big backup right behind us, wonder what that was all about? Took us 7 hours and 10 minutes to play.

[Indydealmaker]

There are absolutely no rules anywhere that require your foursome to keep pace with the group in front of you as long as you are playing the speed recommended for the course. That is like saying that the driver ahead of you on the interstate driving the speed limit is obligated to get out of your way because you are in a hurry. Let's be reasonable here.

[Mikeod]

There are absolutely no rules anywhere that require your foursome to keep pace with the group in front of you as long as you are playing the speed recommended for the course. That is like saying that the driver ahead of you on the interstate driving the speed limit is obligated to get out of your way because you are in a hurry. Let's be reasonable here.
It is not a "rule" of golf, but is accepted etiquette. Your position on the course is behind the group in front of you rather than in front of the group behind you. If the ambassador tells you your group is 5 minutes ahead of pace, do you sit in the cart for 5 minutes? The stated pace of play is not a minimum, but should be a maximum.

Play on any golf course is a cooperative effort of all players to maximize enjoyment of all. Groups that fall well behind reduce the enjoyment of all who play immediately behind them and for the rest of the day. Groups who push others, hit into them in their haste, also adversely affect the golf experience of others. Nobody is asking anyone to rush their game, just play at a pace that keeps the groups in contact with each other and minimizes delays.

And your analogy is flawed because on the interstate, there is a passing lane to allow faster vehicles to pass. Perhaps another analogy would be the driver on the interstate who rides in the passing lane at the same speed as the vehicle in the right lane and refuses to move over because he/she is going the limit, so no one should be going faster.

[ncr2482]

There are absolutely no rules anywhere that require your foursome to keep pace with the group in front of you as long as you are playing the speed recommended for the course. That is like saying that the driver ahead of you on the interstate driving the speed limit is obligated to get out of your way because you are in a hurry. Let's be reasonable here..

You are correct regarding not having to keep up with the group in front of you as long as you maintain your pace of play. Saying all that, I played today at Cane Garden(foursome), started on Jacaranda at 8:54 and did not finish until 1:30.

[Indydealmaker]

It is not a "rule" of golf, but is accepted etiquette. Your position on the course is behind the group in front of you rather than in front of the group behind you. If the ambassador tells you your group is 5 minutes ahead of pace, do you sit in the cart for 5 minutes? The stated pace of play is not a minimum, but should be a maximum.

Play on any golf course is a cooperative effort of all players to maximize enjoyment of all. Groups that fall well behind reduce the enjoyment of all who play immediately behind them and for the rest of the day. Groups who push others, hit into them in their haste, also adversely affect the golf experience of others. Nobody is asking anyone to rush their game, just play at a pace that keeps the groups in contact with each other and minimizes delays.

And your analogy is flawed because on the interstate, there is a passing lane to allow faster vehicles to pass. Perhaps another analogy would be the driver on the interstate who rides in the passing lane at the same speed as the vehicle in the right lane and refuses to move over because he/she is going the limit, so no one should be going faster.

I guess I should have used an analogy of a one lane road with a double yellow. So what you are saying is that if a group of pros are ahead of you, you should pick up your ball and keep pace? I still say that if the accepted speed of play is maintained, it is not possible to fall behind just because the group ahead of you plays faster than the norm. Should a foursome be required to keep pace behind a twosome? The reality is that if a foursome observes the general rules of golf with regard to lost ball searches, putting times, etc., there will usually not be a problem with speed of play. But expecting an average golfer to keep pace with a low handicap foursome is just not part of the game. It is no fun for the average guy. If all of the average guys quit playing out of frustration with the stress, then the small percentage of low handicappers will incur much higher costs to play.

[Bosoxfan]

you have. You are supposed to keep pace with the group in front of you. Hope I don't have to play behind your group very often.

Ok Ok maybe I worded it wrong ..I do care.I'm capable of playing at any pace but 4 1/2 hours seems reasonable.I sometime play with folks that 15 minutes a hole is rushed to them.They have a right to enjoy the golf in the villages as much as anyone here.Sounds like if you're not a single digit handicap you don't belong on the championship courses and that's bull....!Why don't we all relax. The next time someone in front of you isn't playing to your liking just remember it sure beats working!! It's another beautiful day in the villages.:pepper2:

[Russ_Boston]

Do what I do - play before the morning wave. I've done this often and usually get paired with 2-3 others. Sometimes we've been so fast the ranger told us to play 2 balls each if we want so we don't catch up with the grounds crew:)

[ajbrown]

Do what I do - play before the morning wave. I've done this often and usually get paired with 2-3 others. Sometimes we've been so fast the ranger told us to play 2 balls each if we want so we don't catch up with the grounds crew:)

I apologize if I am missing something obvious, but how does one do this? Are the times before the wave? DO you just play 9?

[Taj44]

Ok Ok maybe I worded it wrong ..I do care.I'm capable of playing at any pace but 4 1/2 hours seems reasonable.I sometime play with folks that 15 minutes a hole is rushed to them.They have a right to enjoy the golf in the villages as much as anyone here.Sounds like if you're not a single digit handicap you don't belong on the championship courses and that's bull....!Why don't we all relax. The next time someone in front of you isn't playing to your liking just remember it sure beats working!! It's another beautiful day in the villages.:pepper2:

When you look at the scorecards, it tells you what the pace of play is on the various courses. Havana and Cane are 4 hours 15 or 16 minutes. Ob 4 hours 7 minutes, and so on. Palmer and Lopez are exceptions at 4 hours and 26 minutes. So 4 1/2 hours is not reasonable on most of the golf courses in The Villages. I don't mean this unkindly, but if someone is rushed at 15 minutes per hole, they need to find another place to play, or improve their skills, because they will not be playing at the accepted pace of play. They do not have the right to spoil the game for the rest of us who go by the rules. I play golf with people who have handicaps in their 20's and they have no problem keeping up. They're ready to hit when its their turn, they move quickly between shots; they essentially don't waste time. Its called being courteous i.e. golf etiquette.

[Taj44]

While I do agree with you it does not always play out this way. Earlier this summer when playing on Kilimanjaro we had a group of four in front of us that was slow, or so we thought. The group in front of them was moving along quickly. On the 6th tee the ambassador showed up and asked if everything was ok. One of our group then complained about our concern for the slow play in front of us. The ambassador told us that while there was open fairway between the group in front of us and the next group he was not going to say anything because they were on time and the 1st group was ahead of schedule. But the more I thought about that I disagreed because sooner or later that day the trickle down effect was going to come into play.

I agree with you. I think the ambassador was incorrect here, but that tends to happen. They don't like to rock the boat. The problem is, as you said with the trickle down effect, once things slow down, its iimpossible to get things back up to speed. One slow group in the morning will affect pace of play all day long. Someone else was talking about playing behind pros and/or twosomes, etc. That doesn't happen too frequently in my experience. There is rarely a twosome in the lead, they're generally sandwiched in between foursomes, and in the high season, there will be few if any openings at all due to lack of teetimes.

[Bosoxfan]

When you look at the scorecards, it tells you what the pace of play is on the various courses. Havana and Cane are 4 hours 15 or 16 minutes. Ob 4 hours 7 minutes, and so on. Palmer and Lopez are exceptions at 4 hours and 26 minutes. So 4 1/2 hours is not reasonable on most of the golf courses in The Villages. I don't mean this unkindly, but if someone is rushed at 15 minutes per hole, they need to find another place to play, or improve their skills, because they will not be playing at the accepted pace of play. They do not have the right to spoil the game for the rest of us who go by the rules. I play golf with people who have handicaps in their 20's and they have no problem keeping up. They're ready to hit when its their turn, they move quickly between shots; they essentially don't waste time. Its called being courteous i.e. golf etiquette.

WOW!!!chilout

[thistrucksforyou]

You are retired or have you forgotten....Slow down enjoy yourself, have a beer enjoy your friends, what,s the hurry....I am not there yet but from the outside looking in, I here that your past hecktick life of hurry to work,hurry home,is still with you, slow down, stress out , you have the rest of your life...

JMO

[ajbrown]

I sometime play with folks that 15 minutes a hole is rushed to them.They have a right to enjoy the golf in the villages as much as anyone here.Sounds like if you're not a single digit handicap you don't belong on the championship courses and that's bull....!

Not sure why I am chirping in except I could not sleep and am bored :).

Let me first say one of the slowest players I frequently play in a group with is a two handicap, so this is not just about ability. As many of us, I have played lots of golf in my life and I cannot remember playing with anyone who could not keep up. That includes players with physical handicaps as well as high golf handicaps. If they were golfers, i.e., understood rules and etiquette, then they each found their own way to keep pace.

My wife is a perfect example for this thread. When she started her golf journey she had trouble consistently hitting the ball, never mind hitting 150 yards. She understood one thing though, she had as much responsibility for pace of play on the course as any other player out there. During that first year if she could not keep up, the ball went in hand and we drove up to where the others were and she continued. No stress and in time this happened less and less. Today she is a pretty solid 24 handicap.

To me it is simple. We each own the pace of play for the whole course and with that the enjoyment of others who come behind us.

[charlie49]

There is no doubt that people who believe it is their right to play at any pace they want to are inconsiderate of others on the course. A five hour round, last week at Mallory, is not acceptable. New golfers should follow the advice of more experienced players regarding when they should pick up and move along.

A good experiment would be for the Villages be to designate one course as one where pace of play would be ridgidly enforced. Any group behind would move ahead to where they should be when instructed by an ambassador. Slow players would avoid that course and those who enjoyed maintaining pace would desire playing at that course.

One course could also be designated as one where pace of play will not be enforced at all. Slow players could choose that course and play as slow as they wanted.

I wonder what course would be more popular?

Charlie

[Talk Host]

I walk most of the championship courses and have never once held up play. I am usually at the next tee box waiting for my teammates. There is no reason for anybody to hold up play. Hit your ball and move on. If I can do it on foot, it can be done in a cart.

There use to be a guy in one group I played with that, before he hit the ball, would lean on his club "in the fairway" and start to tell us a story about when he "lived back up north." ARRRRGGGGGGHHHH. I've played with guys who "don't care" that they are holding up play. They insist that they'll play at their own pace and "screw" everybody else.

Proper pace of play is not "hurry" it is the normal pace. It's not hard to do. Just play the game and move on.

[golf2140]

I walk most of the championship courses and have never once held up play. I am usually at the next tee box waiting for my teammates. There is no reason for anybody to hold up play. Hit your ball and move on. If I can do it on foot, it can be done in a cart.

There use to be a guy in one group I played with that, before he hit the ball, would lean on his club "in the fairway" and start to tell us a story about when he "lived back up north." ARRRRGGGGGGHHHH. I've played with guys who "don't care" that they are holding up play. They insist that they'll play at their own pace and "screw" everybody else.

Proper pace of play is not "hurry" it is the normal pace. It's not hard to do. Just play the game and move on.

Well said, think of others while on the course.

[dillywho]

As others have pointed out, it is not about handicaps but about pace of play.... play ready golf, pick up when you need to (no need to play till it's in the hole when you've already hit it and hit it and hit it unless you're in a tournament where you have no choice), save the stories for the clubhouse, limit practice swings (you're either gonna hit it or miss it so practice on the practice areas instead), don't spend all day "reading" the putt, replacing head covers and the club back in the bag, etc. Some of the slowest players are the lower handicap "experienced" players. Many need to remember that they are not putting for a Green Jacket on every putt and don't need to take 5 practice swings and then change clubs and do it again on their other shots.

Keeping up does not mean playing fast nor is golf about seeing how fast you can get around the course. Isn't it acceptable here for faster players to "play through" but only if there is anywhere for them to go because it is not always the group directly ahead that is the problem. Sometimes they are waiting, too.

BTW, these same things apply on the executive courses as well so it's not just about the championship courses.

If you watch golf then you know, some of golf's slowest players are on tour and frequently get clocked and sometimes even penalized.

[Jhooman]

Hey

I'm with you!! I live in Southern California and would love to have a 4.5 round. We average about 5 hours and that's a marvel.

I can hardly wait to live in the Villages, I hope the Neja golfers will not tailgate me.

But if they do, I'll encourage them to play through and they can torment the next group.

I'm a long hitter and need to wait for the group to clear, I do not want to hurt anyone. Sometimes my waiting aggravates the group behind me, especially men, but when they see how far I hit the ball they quiet down.

Simple manners and patience will go a long way.

J

[tankdvr1950]

As a former TV Ambassador/Starter I can attest to the fact that there is slow play out there....at any time of the year. A lot of it has to do with the experience level of the golfer, not undertaanding the various things once can do to "play ready golf" and keep play morning.....but the most prevelant one I witnessed so many many times.....too many guys have too much testosterone.....i.e. way too many guys -play from a T box (Executive as well as Championship course) that they have no business (nor the ability) to play from.

Time after time i saw golfers hitting from the Black T's because....."thats where the real men play from"....only to see their drives barely trickle past the forward T box...in many of these circumstances, a par 4 quickly turns into a part 8 or more (and very few people know about or observe the "double par rule"....once u get to double par...pick up the damn ball and more on to the next hole)

Many times i would approach these "real men" golfers and suggest that they minght enjoy their round more if they moved to a more forward T box that better fit their game....i dont ever recall that that suggesting was well received with the "best" response I got being "i paid my fee....now i want to hit as many shorts as i can for my money" (true story),

So here's one more way to speed up play on all the courses....hit from the T box that your game can handle...trust me...u will enjoy the game more and keep the course moving on time.

[Mikeod]

It would appear some things that are considered normal to maintain pace of play are considered rushing by others. Dropping off your cart partner at his/her ball and driving to your ball then picking them up after both have hit to some is normal, to others is rushing. Lining up your putt while someone else is putting is considered rushing by some, normal by others. Parking the cart to facilitate leaving the hole when finished and marking scores at the next tee are also normal to some, unnecessary to others.

And I agree with the post above that this is not confined to the championship courses. I played Yankee Clipper in a foursome behind a group of four men who appeared to be competent players. After four holes, they were two holes behind. Ridiculous. They even retried chips and putts while we were waiting on the tee. The ambassador told us he asked them to pick up the pace, but they were two holes behind the rest of the round.

But I still believe golf here is a cooperative effort of all players on the course to maximize enjoyment for all.

[ncr2482]

I apologize if I am missing something obvious, but how does one do this? Are the times before the wave? DO you just play 9?

Since no one has answered your question. You can call a course and make arrangements to tee off before the start of the tee time of morning wave. I think you can only play 9 holes doing that. Unfortunately this time of year, the sunrise is at about 7:20 AM...doesn't give the courses much time to schedule early birds. However in the summer it is easy to do. This also helps to explain why Russ-Boston indicated he almost never sees cigarette butts on the course, he is the first group out.

[graciegirl]

[QUOTE=mikeod;298783]It is not a "rule" of golf, but is accepted etiquette. Your position on the course is behind the group in front of you rather than in front of the group behind you. If the ambassador tells you your group is 5 minutes ahead of pace, do you sit in the cart for 5 minutes? The stated pace of play is not a minimum, but should be a maximum.

Play on any golf course is a cooperative effort of all players to maximize enjoyment of all. Groups that fall well behind reduce the enjoyment of all who play immediately behind them and for the rest of the day. Groups who push others, hit into them in their haste, also adversely affect the golf experience of others. Nobody is asking anyone to rush their game, just play at a pace that keeps the groups in contact with each other and minimizes delays."Quote=mikeod

I agree with you. That is how I was taught. If there is an open hole ahead of you, speed up. Etiquette is simply consideration for others.

[Indydealmaker]

[QUOTE=mikeod;298783]It is not a "rule" of golf, but is accepted etiquette. Your position on the course is behind the group in front of you rather than in front of the group behind you. If the ambassador tells you your group is 5 minutes ahead of pace, do you sit in the cart for 5 minutes? The stated pace of play is not a minimum, but should be a maximum.

Play on any golf course is a cooperative effort of all players to maximize enjoyment of all. Groups that fall well behind reduce the enjoyment of all who play immediately behind them and for the rest of the day. Groups who push others, hit into them in their haste, also adversely affect the golf experience of others. Nobody is asking anyone to rush their game, just play at a pace that keeps the groups in contact with each other and minimizes delays."Quote=mikeod

I agree with you. That is how I was taught. If there is an open hole ahead of you, speed up. Etiquette is simply consideration for others.

The only way that this is proper etiquette is if the group ahead is playing at a normal pace and you are playing too slow. If the group ahead is faster than the norm, there is absolutely no reason for your group to rush ahead if it is already playing at the suggested pace. Filling that gap changes nothing. If the starter is getting everybody off at their appointed tee times, it does not matter if somebody finishes ahead of schedule. It only matters if slower than prescribed play causes a backup.

[schotzyb]

What adds to the groups backing up is when the starter sends a group off before their scheduled starting time. This has happened to me on several occassions. Sooner or later you are going to come to a standstill.

[Russ_Boston]

Since no one has answered your question. You can call a course and make arrangements to tee off before the start of the tee time of morning wave. I think you can only play 9 holes doing that. Unfortunately this time of year, the sunrise is at about 7:20 AM...doesn't give the courses much time to schedule early birds. However in the summer it is easy to do. This also helps to explain why Russ-Boston indicated he almost never sees cigarette butts on the course, he is the first group out.

Sorry, I was working all day (still am - don't tell my nurse supervisor!).

9 holes only. I do prefer to get out early if possible. I've played 9 holes and been finished well before 9AM. they can usually shove out 3-4 foursomes before the wave - depending on daylight.

[graciegirl]

[quote=graciegirl;298985]

The only way that this is proper etiquette is if the group ahead is playing at a normal pace and you are playing too slow. If the group ahead is faster than the norm, there is absolutely no reason for your group to rush ahead if it is already playing at the suggested pace. Filling that gap changes nothing. If the starter is getting everybody off at their appointed tee times, it does not matter if somebody finishes ahead of schedule. It only matters if slower than prescribed play causes a backup.

I was sure that I was right, because Sweetie always says, "we need to keep up", but when I asked him just now about this situation, he agrees with you. So you are right and I am wrong. I apologize.

[Indydealmaker]

[quote=Indydealmaker;299000]

I was sure that I was right, because Sweetie always says, "we need to keep up", but when I asked him just now about this situation, he agrees with you. So you are right and I am wrong. I apologize.

No apology is needed. Open discourse is what this forum is all about. We all learn from each other. I have always been wrong before I was right. . . for the last 60 years at least.

[ncr2482]

I played Hacienda this morning (8:13 tee time). We played 18 in 3 hours and 45 minutes!!!! Definitely worth noting.since I started the slow pace of play thread a week ago. Nancy

[tghoul]

I use to play golf 3 or 4 times a week before I moved to The Villages. Our groups played on a difficult Pete Dye course and we usually played in 3:45 minutes. I've basically given up playing golf in TV, way too slow. It is no fun to wait on every hole. Too many golfers don't play "ready golf". You don't have to rush to play a round in under 4 hours.

[Indydealmaker]

So if I understand things correctly; top flight players can play TV country club courses in 3:45. Slow players are the ones playing 4:15 which is generally the prescribed "acceptable" playing time per the score cards. This means that these "acceptable" but "slow" players are causing the top flight players to wait an average of 1.6 minutes per hole. Wow!

[Mikeod]

So if I understand things correctly; top flight players can play TV country club courses in 3:45. Slow players are the ones playing 4:15 which is generally the prescribed "acceptable" playing time per the score cards. This means that these "acceptable" but "slow" players are causing the top flight players to wait an average of 1.6 minutes per hole. Wow!
:sigh: So, because the time increment is only 1.6 minutes per hole, it's OK to make everyone behind you wait for you to complete your round at the "prescribed" pace. They are rushing, you are not. So if there are two, three, four holes open in front of you, it's the "pros" in front of you creating the gap, not you. I would suggest you attend the Good Golf School at Colony and ask how they feel about that. Call 750-4558. It's held Thursday mornings, 9-11.

[BogeyBoy]

:sigh: So, because the time increment is only 1.6 minutes per hole, it's OK to make everyone behind you wait for you to complete your round at the "prescribed" pace. They are rushing, you are not. So if there are two, three, four holes open in front of you, it's the "pros" in front of you creating the gap, not you. I would suggest you attend the Good Golf School at Colony and ask how they feel about that. Call 750-4558. It's held Thursday mornings, 9-11.

We played today, by chance there was a group behind us that we know. I have played with them and they are not slow players. Also by chance, we had an exceptional round, birdies and pars and fast play. They were two holes behind us when we finished, but ahead of the "prescribed" pace. If I read you right they should pick up the pace just because we were playing faster than normal? (By coincidence there was no one in front of us but usually if we are playing and the group all gets pars or birdies I expect to wait at the next tee.)

[Mikeod]

Simple answer, Yes. They should try to close the gap, but not by rushing. Playing ready golf, being prepared to play when it's their turn, etc. If they are still two holes behind at the end and they have tried to close the gap and the groups behind them are not backed up, I don't have a problem.

Look, we can all point to exceptional instances where a gap will occur, but they are not frequent. All I am promoting is that people on the golf courses understand that their pace of play affects all those behind them and they consider their fellow golfers when they play.

[Pturner]

It would appear some things that are considered normal to maintain pace of play are considered rushing by others. Dropping off your cart partner at his/her ball and driving to your ball then picking them up after both have hit to some is normal, to others is rushing. Lining up your putt while someone else is putting is considered rushing by some, normal by others. Parking the cart to facilitate leaving the hole when finished and marking scores at the next tee are also normal to some, unnecessary to others.

And I agree with the post above that this is not confined to the championship courses. I played Yankee Clipper in a foursome behind a group of four men who appeared to be competent players. After four holes, they were two holes behind. Ridiculous. They even retried chips and putts while we were waiting on the tee. The ambassador told us he asked them to pick up the pace, but they were two holes behind the rest of the round.

But I still believe golf here is a cooperative effort of all players on the course to maximize enjoyment for all.

Being at your ball when it's your turn to hit, or dropping your partner at his/her ball (as long as you're not getting in front of another golfer) are integral to ready golf. Same with parking to facilitate leaving the hole. Failing to do these things is failing to play ready golf.

For anyone who considers these actions rushing... well, let's just say, I know what part of "ready golf" they don't understand. :(

[Taj44]

We played today, by chance there was a group behind us that we know. I have played with them and they are not slow players. Also by chance, we had an exceptional round, birdies and pars and fast play. They were two holes behind us when we finished, but ahead of the "prescribed" pace. If I read you right they should pick up the pace just because we were playing faster than normal? (By coincidence there was no one in front of us but usually if we are playing and the group all gets pars or birdies I expect to wait at the next tee.)

First of all, congratulations on your exceptional round and fast play. But, in my experience, the times when you have a great round and are able to play faster as a result, are few and far between. You were lucky, and apparently there was no one in front of you holding you up. Nine times out of ten, there is a group in front of you that will be holding you up, or that you will just keep pace with. And there is probably someone in front of them going at a certain pace. I played here all summer, and I can think of only a couple of times when we did not have to wait, and played right along, finishing in under 4 hours. And that was in the summer when things are slow. With birds coming back, and golf courses more packed, it isn't going to get any better. We're not what I call great golfers, we have handicaps in the low teens, but we play along, not talking when its our turn to hit, always ready, etc., don't spend a lot of time looking for balls. We all need to be considerate of the people behind us. If you keep looking back and seeing people waiting on your group all the time, then you're holding people up! If you have no where to go that's one thing, but if you have an opening in front of you, speed it up!

[Bosoxfan]

[QUOTE=tghoul;299925Too many golfers don't play "ready golf". You don't have to rush to play a round in under 4 hours.[/QUOTE]

Now under 4 hours is expected.Come on people!! You don't have to rush to play a round under 4 hours?What happens if you hit a stray shot? Are you allowed to look for it?What happens if you need to use the restroom? Wait until the round is over?No practice swings?Geez..no talking to anybody on the course..it might slow you down.Golf is supposed to be fun ...not a drill .

[BogeyBoy]

I guess I have accepted that sometimes you have to wait for the group in front of you. As long as the round takes around the "pace of play" time I think that is okay.

We could be somewhere where the only course around is shutting down due to lack of play. Instead we are lucky to live where not only are there many courses to play but new ones are still being planned and constructed.

If you really need to play FAST or SLOW you could always join an exclusive country club where very few rounds are played. Then you could work with the starter to make sure you play when there is no one in front of you (if you are that fast player) or no one behind you (if you want to take your time). Of course the downside to that is the membership fee - could easily be $50,000 at some places; the annual fees; the minimum you have to spend at the restaurant every month; tipping the bag boy; tipping the guy who wipes down your clubs; etc.

I think I'll stay here.

[Taj44]

Now under 4 hours is expected.Come on people!! You don't have to rush to play a round under 4 hours?What happens if you hit a stray shot? Are you allowed to look for it?What happens if you need to use the restroom? Wait until the round is over?No practice swings?Geez..no talking to anybody on the course..it might slow you down.Golf is supposed to be fun ...not a drill .

No one said a 4 hour round is expected. We do say we faster players do enjoy it when it (rarely) happens. No one said, no practice swings. But I have played with people who instead of taking one or 2 swings, take about 10. No one said, no talking on the course. But you shouldn't be talking and holding up the golf course telling your buddies a joke when it is your turn to hit. All we're asking for is common courtesy - they call it golf etiquette.

[graciegirl]

No one said a 4 hour round is expected. We do say we faster players do enjoy it when it (rarely) happens. No one said, no practice swings. But I have played with people who instead of taking one or 2 swings, take about 10. No one said, no talking on the course. But you shouldn't be talking and holding up the golf course telling your buddies a joke when it is your turn to hit. All we're asking for is common courtesy - they call it golf etiquette.

I absolutely agree with your post Taj. I am sure that I do not play as well as you do, but I have been playing for 40 years and I dislike the shenanigans. I played with a foursome for years that were all men (including Sweetie) but me, and I didn't hit as well as they did, but they didn't mess with a lot of practice swings, they were ready for the next shot, watched where an errant shot would go for the group, didn't take forever looking for a ball in the water or the bullrushes, it was enjoyable and not at all hurried. They were all much better golfers than me and I loved watching their strong hits and precise placement, but I kept their pace. I really do not enjoy slow golf. I lose my concentration. You don't have to rush shots or putt with the pin in to do this.

[mulligan]

I've been reading all of this with interest. I'm a gonnabe, I play golf, but not enough yet to really improve my game, and Mrs mulligan is going to give it a try when we move down. She said she would be concerned about getting out in front of some faster players, and holding things up. All that being said, what's wrong with letting a group behind you play through? When I have been in that situation up here in the great white north, that seems to take all the pressure off.

[graciegirl]

I've been reading all of this with interest. I'm a gonnabe, I play golf, but not enough yet to really improve my game, and Mrs mulligan is going to give it a try when we move down. She said she would be concerned about getting out in front of some faster players, and holding things up. All that being said, what's wrong with letting a group behind you play through? When I have been in that situation up here in the great white north, that seems to take all the pressure off.

Mulligan.

Not to worry. These conversations pretty much deal with play on the 18 hole courses and not the executive courses. Although it is wise to learn not only how to hit the ball, but the ins and outs of what people call etiquette, the executive courses are very friendly to beginners with your choice of tee placement. For rank beginners, after 10 shots, pick up until you are a little better and don't worry too much if you lose a ball. We have all been beginners and believe me, I hit the ball like one now.

[ajbrown]

I've been reading all of this with interest. I'm a gonnabe, I play golf, but not enough yet to really improve my game, and Mrs mulligan is going to give it a try when we move down. She said she would be concerned about getting out in front of some faster players, and holding things up. All that being said, what's wrong with letting a group behind you play through? When I have been in that situation up here in the great white north, that seems to take all the pressure off.

Check out my earlier post on how my wife managed when she took up the game, she was nervous/concerned about pace at first, but had no issue.

Please do not read my post as mean spirited, with my finger pointing at you lecturing about being slow, I am not trying to be. I am just sharing my experience as a long time golfer.

As far as playing through, IMO it should never be used on a "full" golf course. By full course , I mean a course where almost every tee time is taken (likely in TV from now until May). On a full course, your group has an obligation to all groups behind you to stay in position. By stay in position, I mean you are ahead of the time for the course or you are keeping up with the group in front of you. If your group falls out of position, IMO you MUST do whatever it takes to get back into position, you should not let the group behind you play through.

If your group cannot stay in position then there is likely more than just one group that is being held up. Allowing a group to play through will make things worse.

On the other hand there are times when allowing someone to play through makes sense and is a nice gesture. An example would be the course is not crowded, there is no one in front of you and a twosome is behind your group of four. It is a judgment call you will quickly learn with experience.

FWIW. I have played on courses where if a group falls out of position, they are asked to please speed up, if they do not, they are asked to take there ball to a place that is "back in position".

[Indy-Guy]

Please excuse me as I type very slowly. So I don't think I will give my opinion as someone would be done reading it before I can finish typing it.

Enjoy your day even if it isn't going as fast as you would like.

[zcaveman]

For rank beginners, after 10 shots, pick up until you are a little better and don't worry too much if you lose a ball. We have all been beginners and believe me, I hit the ball like one now.

The standard rule is to pick up after double par - not 10 shots. In fact when my wife first started playing, she would pick up after 3 shots and putt the remaining shots. Now she is holing out in 3-5 normally.

[graciegirl]

The standard rule is to pick up after double par - not 10 shots. In fact when my wife first started playing, she would pick up after 3 shots and putt the remaining shots. Now she is holing out in 3-5 normally.

You are right of course. It has been a long time and I forgot.

[Taj44]

We played at Orange Blossom yesterday, in 4 hours 2 minutes. The expected pace of play listed on the OB score Card is 4 hours 7 minutes. It was a nice comfortable round. The guys in front of us struggled with lost balls, etc., but managed to keep pace. They didn't look like they were hurrying. I asked the Ambassador about whether or not they can do any real "rangering" on The Villages golf courses. He said "yes, they can tell people they have open holes in front of them; they can tell people they are off pace; and he said they can ask people to skip a par three if they are more than 15 minutes behind". He also said that most ambassadors are hesitant to say or do those things. Maybe it varies from course to course. It would be interesting to see if some courses are continually slower, or don't enforce the pace of play, than others.

[ajbrown]

Finally back in the saddle in TV. Played our first round of 10-11 winter at GlennView. FWIW, Front nine: 2:03 (good), back nine: 2:15 (9 minutes to the bad). I could not tell why the backup existed as the groups I could see in front of me all were in position. I did what I could for pace of play as I was in my pocket 3 times :cus:, I remember a time when I really could play this game :ohdear: and hope it returns!

One thing I did notice which will not help pace of play is that the yardage markers at 25 yard increments from 75 - 250 have been removed. I suspect there were breaking? I wonder if at all courses or just GV? It is too bad they could not have found a way to leave them, as it really helped with selecting a club. Possibly the developer has negotiated a great margin on the sale of every GPS yardage device :duck:

[Indydealmaker]

I read a report that said a significant percentage of backups are created as the result of scheduling tee times too closely together, particularly if there is a par 3 within the first 5 holes.

[ajbrown]

I read a report that said a significant percentage of backups are created as the result of scheduling tee times too closely together, particularly if there is a par 3 within the first 5 holes.

I have seen this where I play out of in MA. The course does not have tee times. On a Sunday you arrive, check in and get on a list. The third hole is a Par 3. In past years folks would tee off of the first hole as soon as the group in front got out of range. There was always a wait on the third hole, often two groups on the tee.

This summer they changed how you tee off of number one. You did not tee off until the flag was taken out of the hole by the group in front of you on the first green.

I am not sure how this affected the overall time, but it did solve the long wait on the third hole.

[hdh1470]

You are retired or have you forgotten....Slow down enjoy yourself, have a beer enjoy your friends, what,s the hurry....I am not there yet but from the outside looking in, I here that your past hecktick life of hurry to work,hurry home,is still with you, slow down, stress out , you have the rest of your life...

JMO

You got it right

[tankdvr1950]

T times too close together.....not likely....the T times are pre-scheduled (usually 9-10 minutes apart) by the T time system......the individual course cannot change those times.

Some back-ups can be caused by an inattentive starter.....if the starter does not send the next group out at the right time (i.e. sends it out early) that can create a back up on the course. Likewise, golfers must be on time as well....i have seen many times a golf group, after the starter has told them its ok to T off....just stand around on the T, BSing and as a result they T off late....that then backs up everything in back of them

Slow play is an ongoing/niver ending problem....especially this time of year....and as much as people dislike it.....i think its here to stay.

[wendyquat]

Shhhsh! Sounds like work instead of fun to me! Thought my hubby and I might take up the sport when we get moved down but now I think I'll just find something else to do! Don't like to be "rushed" in my old age!

[Mikeod]

Shhhsh! Sounds like work instead of fun to me! Thought my hubby and I might take up the sport when we get moved down but now I think I'll just find something else to do! Don't like to be "rushed" in my old age!
I hope you reconsider. Golf is fun. Remember this thread concerns play on the championship courses. While some of the comments may also apply to the executive courses, those courses are designed to have varying degrees of difficulty, so a beginner can play a course with fewer hazards and/or length so they can enjoy the experience. As their capabilities improve, they can try harder and harder courses while still enjoying the game. Please attend the Good Golf School put on by TV. It will give you a lot of information about golf here and many tips on how to maximize your enjoyment without worrying about your effect on the pace of play.

[dillywho]

On page 25 of the new phone book about golf, pace of play is addressed. It states, "The Pace of Play 'Time Par' for the Championship Courses ranges from 4:05 at Orange Blossom Hills to 4:26 at Palmer Legends Country Club".

These parameters are designed by professionals, so why is 4:02 unreasonable or "slow"?

Golf should not be a race to see how fast you can get around a course, but enjoyable and relaxing. I have played with players who would state at the end of a round, "Our group played in 3:40 today". So? Even though they were all good golfers, maybe they could have been even better if they would concentrate on their games more than how fast they could play 18. (Just a thought.)

Yes, truly slow play is maddening (taking a bazillion practice swings, lining up putts forever, etc.). Constant pushing from the group behind you is just as maddening when you or they have no place to go. Let the ambassadors do their jobs and leave everyone else alone.

[Barefoot]

Please attend the Good Golf School put on by TV. It will give you a lot of information about golf here and many tips on how to maximize your enjoyment without worrying about your effect on the pace of play.

When and where is "Good Golf School"?

Another Beginner Golfer

[BogeyBoy]

When and where is "Good Golf School"?

Another Beginner Golfer

http://www.golfthevillages.com/golf-in-the-villages/GoodGolfSchool2010.pdf

[Qballgreg]

Rules of Golf state that when you have an open hole in front of you and golfers behind you are waiting, step aside and let the faster group play through...no big deal. If you wish to play a 5 hour round of golf, that is fine, just don't expect everyone behind you to do likewise....let them play through.

[Bogie Shooter]

Rules of Golf state that when you have an open hole in front of you and golfers behind you are waiting, step aside and let the faster group play through...no big deal. If you wish to play a 5 hour round of golf, that is fine, just don't expect everyone behind you to do likewise....let them play through.

Playing through in TV accomplishes very little. The courses are full. The most you might gain is one hole.

[Indy-Guy]

Rules of Golf state that when you have an open hole in front of you and golfers behind you are waiting, step aside and let the faster group play through...no big deal. If you wish to play a 5 hour round of golf, that is fine, just don't expect everyone behind you to do likewise....let them play through.

That would work good if there is no one behind the people that you are letting play through. However if the course is full as it is most of the time in The Villages at this time of the year it works best for everyone on the course if the slow players skip a hole. It takes more time to let someone play through if you are playing slow then all that happpens is more people are further behind.

I just played Mallory and we were done in just under 4 hours which is ahead of the 4 hours and 16 minutes on the score card.

[alemorkam]

What is the hurry. We are mostly retired. Afraid gonna miss early bird special or happy hour?:grumpy:

[Russ_Boston]

What is the hurry. We are mostly retired. Afraid gonna miss early bird special or happy hour?:grumpy:


I take that comment to mean that you are a slow player yourself?

Slow play hurts everyone on the course. Slow play is a choice. I've seen many raw beginners who are not slow.

Bad choices such as:



Getting in your cart and scoring the hole while on the side of the green
Taking your time to make sure your clubs are all in their place before leaving the green side. (hold your putter in one hand and drive with the other until the next tee box if you must).
Waiting to tee your ball up on the tee. First player should be ready the minute the group in front is clear.
Waiting for another player who is no where in sight to hit before you plan and execute your next shot (you are not going to bother each other - just hit).


Last month I played with a woman, on an exec, who said "you're an experienced golfer, if you see something that I could do differently to speed up play, please let me know". It was refreshing and we had a great time during the round (I shared her cart). I gave her a few tips (for speed of play not the play itself) as the round went on. I wish more golfers were open to simple suggestions.

Playing in an expedient manner does not take the fun out of the game.

[alemorkam]

Not a slow player. scratch player who realizes everyone isnt in a hurry and enjoy my time on the golf course whether 3 4 5 6 hours.

[spk7951]

Not a slow player. scratch player who realizes everyone isnt in a hurry and enjoy my time on the golf course whether 3 4 5 6 hours.


I do not believe it is an issue of being in a hurry but more an issue of common courtesy. Each scorecard on the exec courses show an expected time to play that course and if a group falls out of that time range then it will have a trickle down effect throughout that day. Just this past week we played Bacall and it took us over 2 1/4hrs due to the two groups just in front of us. Of course looking behind us you could see a backup growing and two clear holes in front of us. That can be frustrating.

[Russ_Boston]

Not a slow player. scratch player who realizes everyone isnt in a hurry and enjoy my time on the golf course whether 3 4 5 6 hours.

Scratch player doesn't mean you are quick. There isn't a player (or organization) in the world who doesn't think slow play is an issue whether it be professional or weekender. The fact that you even mention a 6 hour round as OK takes away all of your credibility.

My 2 cents as an 11 handicap who plays quickly and enjoyably.

[alemorkam]

I take exception to what you say. I will guarantee, without a doubt, that I am a faster player than you. I am extremely fast player, who believes in ready golf, which you and most probably dont believe in. I also read my putt before it is my turn. Just because I do not criticize slow play does not mean I MUST be a slow player. You should not judge without knowledge.

[NJblue]

While I can understand the frustration if play becomes too slow (i.e., you pull up to the tee box and the group in front of you is still waiting to tee off), I don't understand the frustration of of having some waits. Maybe it's just me, but a big part of the allure of golf is its sociability and being out in beautiful surroundings. I find the waits to hit a great opportunity to enjoy both of these aspects - a good chance to talk with your partners and also a good chance to enjoy the surroundings. My worst nightmare would be to have the opportunity to play any of the world's great courses without the opportunity to pause between shots to take it all in. I find that even on the non-worldclass courses that we play around here that the rounds I enjoy the most involve some waiting versus where we spend the whole time golfing with no time talk or look around.

[rubicon]

I have played with guys who chide you for wasting time pulling the flagstick ( a penaly if you hit it while putting) to people who invented the term "chatter boxes" and both types are not beneficial. All courses have well established times for how long it should take to compete nine or eighteen holes of golf. Some even have clocks attached to carts advising where you should be at any given time You should be teeing off on the 15th hole, etc). Most courses enforce their rules. Some after two or three warnings of slow play terminate your play. I play by the USGA rules, will pick up when in trouble and will accept the max strokes per hole based on my handicap. There is a difference between social discourse when playing and a chatter box that is totally distracting. I will not do anything I believe will distract another player. I respect people and I respect the game much too much. If people want a social event they out to plan a picnic. If they never played golf they need to experiement on executive courses, then go to the practice range , Under no circumstances should they play any executive course without picking up after six shots. I have seen people with 15 strokes on a par 3 claiming they will not give up. I admire their tentacity but it is self defeating for them and an annoyance to other golfers. and no, while there are not any give me's in stroke play on executive courses you do not always need to hear the clunk, specially when several fourome behind you are backed up

[ajdeck]

I've played alot of golf and don't understand anyone thinking 4 1/2 hours is a long time to play 18.If I'm on a championship course here and I'm averaging 15 minutes a hole I don't care what people behind me are thinking.Golf is a game to be enjoyed and not rushed through,Please all of you in a hurry stop & enjoy nature .You might just learn to relax.chilout

How about 4 1/2 for 9 and short 9 at that...

aj

[Fourpar]

Not a slow player. scratch player who realizes everyone isnt in a hurry and enjoy my time on the golf course whether 3 4 5 6 hours.

I'm sorry, but a 5 hour round just cannot be fun for me. I don't care how beautiful the course, the people or the day, 5 hours is way beyond my endurance level and those who contribute to 5 hour rounds should be playing elsewhere....Just sayin:wave:

[alemorkam]

Thank you. exactly how I feel. Well said

[Taj44]

I'm sorry, but a 5 hour round just cannot be fun for me. I don't care how beautiful the course, the people or the day, 5 hours is way beyond my endurance level and those who contribute to 5 hour rounds should be playing elsewhere....Just sayin...
---------------------------------------------------------
Fourpar, I agree!

[alemorkam]

I DO agree that 5 hours is to long. But if IT DOES HAPPEN, why not just enjoy your company and the surroundings. 5 hour rounds are gonna happen, we just have to enjoy life. No sense raising blood pressure on slow play when we live in such a wonderful place and with such wonderful people.

[Taj44]

I'm sure most people try to make the best of long rounds and enjoy the company and scenery. The point is, a five hour round shouldn't happen. These courses are set up to play in a little over 4 hours at most, and if people are courteous and the ambassadors are doing their job, there should never be a round over 4 1/2 hours. I play right along, and have found plenty of time to socialize and enjoy the surroundngs in 4 hours... . .

[iandwk]

My wife and I are fairly new to golf. We only play the executive courses, usually with friends. Several times we have had golfers behind us waiting on us when we are only taking 9 or 10 minutes per hole. One group even hollered at us to hurry. When we got to the next tee, we still had to wait a minute or so for the ones ahead of us. It ruined the round for us to have people pushing from behind like that when we weren't really slow. My point is that if you are that good and that fast, what are you doing on an executive course fussing at those who are playing at an acceptable pace and staying away from the championship courses until they get better? And if you want to play an executive course, expect those ahead of you to perhaps be a bit slower.

[bluedog103]

Played Heron a couple of weeks ago on a cold, rainy, blustery day. My foursome was all there 20-25 minutes early. When we signed in we were told that there were alot of cancellations and we could go right out.
5 minutes later, as my partner and I were rolling up his side curtains, the starter came over and asked what was the problem and told us we had to get moving. There was not another golfer in sight, other than my group. It was almost comical.
We were well ahead of our starting time on a deserted golf course and here's a joker tring to hurry us up.
This is an exception, of course. Most of the starters and ambassadors I've met are very cordial and helpful. I guess the guy at Heron was just having a bad day.
No, he didn't ruin our day. We played our round quickly and had fun doing it.

[ajbrown]

My wife and I are fairly new to golf. We only play the executive courses, usually with friends. Several times we have had golfers behind us waiting on us when we are only taking 9 or 10 minutes per hole. One group even hollered at us to hurry. When we got to the next tee, we still had to wait a minute or so for the ones ahead of us. It ruined the round for us to have people pushing from behind like that when we weren't really slow. My point is that if you are that good and that fast, what are you doing on an executive course fussing at those who are playing at an acceptable pace and staying away from the championship courses until they get better? And if you want to play an executive course, expect those ahead of you to perhaps be a bit slower.

If you got to the next tee and had to wait for the group ahead of you to clear before you could tee off, you are not in the wrong. Sounds like you are in position and the issue is the group behind you. I would ask the ambassador how you are doing for pace and mention to him what happened with the back seat ambassadors behind you. Do not let folks ruin your day.

On the other hand if are two holes behind, I have an entirely different post :evil6:

[Taj44]

Played Cane Garden today. The front nine, Allamanda was only about 2 hours. Before we teed off on the second nine, the starter said it was running about 5 minutes behind. We waited on every hole - one hole there were 3 groups backed up. It took us almost 2 hours and 45 minutes. Talk about losing focus - it was a beautiful day, and I enjoyed the company, but having 9 holes last that long was just unbearable. I wish the ambassadors would try to hurry people along.

[gage405]

The second nine on all championship courses gets very slow/backed up if you play in the afternoon wave....because they let people out between 1:30 and 2:00 who want to play only nine holes.
So, the nine holers go out before the people who played at 11:56 make the turn. Adds more people to the course suddenly and many who play only nine holes tend to be a little slower than 18 hole players.

[gage405]

And I played at Cane today....I played Jacaranda and Allamanda.

[alemorkam]

I played yesterday at Glenview. Was first off second wave at 11:56. made front nine in two hours. Got to back nine and 4 groups had gone off between 1:30 and 2:00 for nine holes. They were couples played nine hole worse ball scramble. They were extremely slow. However, the Course Pro, Ken went out and made them move along after the ambassador went in to tell him they were holding up the whole course. Thank you Ken.

[Fourpar]

I played yesterday at Glenview. Was first off second wave at 11:56. made front nine in two hours. Got to back nine and 4 groups had gone off between 1:30 and 2:00 for nine holes. They were couples played nine hole worse ball scramble. They were extremely slow. However, the Course Pro, Ken went out and made them move along after the ambassador went in to tell him they were holding up the whole course. Thank you Ken.

Wow! That must be a first, certainly the exception. My experience with Ambassadors is that they are loath to offend anyone, even the very slow with hole(s) open in front of them. Kudos to this Ambassador and Pro! :BigApplause:

[Taj44]

Awesome! Way to go, Ken.

[katezbox]

I think good golf goes back to "The Golden Rule" or "What I learned in Kindergarten."

1. If you are new to TV or the game - go to good golf school

2. Think about how you like it when you have to wait and wait at tee boxes. Yes (some) are retired - but it is no fun playing when you feel there are others breathing dson your neck.

3. Follow the pace of play for the course - when I play with novices, I ask them to pick up once they are 2 - 3 shots over par (on the 4's and 5's). Then they can put out with the rest without causing undue delay. Hacienda is much shorter than Palmer and should play more quickly.

4. If you are a beginner, start with the easier execs and play in the afternoon. That way id you fall behind, you can skip a hole and it costs you nothing.

5. Try to keep pace with those in front of you. However, having said that, you may have a two- or three-some ahead of you. I think if you are at or faster than the pace of play that you need not pick up your ball. I know some of you disagree - but IMHO pace of play is the goal, keeping up is a quick pulse check to ensure you are doing just that.

6. You can speed up play by having your club ready, your shot in mind and your eyes on the balls that all of your group hits to minimize time in looking for lost balls.

Remember - holding people up, if you are slower than the pace of play, is rude. We finished Orange Blossom last week in 4:01 - we were sometimes on pace with the threesome ahead of us, and occasionally they were a bit ahead. We had to wait on 1 or 2 holes. We were hit into a number of times... that is REALLY rude!

[l2ridehd]

When people hit into you, they really just made a mistake, so just tee it up and hit it back to them and wave. Just being friendly. :wave:

[Mikeod]

When people hit into you, they really just made a mistake, so just tee it up and hit it back to them and wave. Just being friendly. :wave:

And that's when the fight started! :22yikes::1rotfl:

Having been hit before, once in the head, I am REALLY sensitive about someone hitting into our group. One time, OK, an accident. You get a friendly wave to remind you it was too close. Twice? Grrrr. Don't bother looking for your ball. It has gone bye-bye. :wave:

[katezbox]

You are right - sometimes it can be an accident. My hubs and I were playing Hacienda (Palms) and the group ahead of us had to wait and had gone down to the edge of the water to get a better look at some eagles. We had seen their carts further up, then they disappeared so we wrongly assumed (yes, I know) that they were moving up to the green.

I had not been playing a driver much and tried out my husband's that day on a couple of longer holes. I hit that sucker over 200 yards (a feat I have yet to repeat). When we got around the hill and saw the guys ahead of us I nearly died! I apologized; they took it in stride.

Kate (who is usually happy to reach 165 off the tee)

[Taj44]

200 yards!!....you animal!..lol.

On another note, we played Mallory recently. It had been in poor condition a month or so ago, but I'm glad to report it seems to be improving. The greens were okay, and the fairways have filled in some so you get a decent lie most of the time.

The pace of play could have been better though. We went from Caroline to Virginia. Front nine was 2 hours, back nine was 2 hours and 45 minutes, ouch! The excuse was the morning wave got 25 minutes behind. I do wish they wouldn't let that happen. The last 2 times I've played its been slow the 2nd nine like that.

[katezbox]

LOL Taj...

Played Hibiscus to Jacaranda with the hubs, Dirigo and another friend. It was a bit slow, took about 4 hours and 30 minutes to play. But it was the front nine that was slower - maybe because Hibiscus is so tough?

k

[chacam]

Rules of Golf state that when you have an open hole in front of you and golfers behind you are waiting, step aside and let the faster group play through...no big deal. If you wish to play a 5 hour round of golf, that is fine, just don't expect everyone behind you to do likewise....let them play through.

What rule would that be ?

[katezbox]

What rule would that be ?

While not in the Rules of Golf - this from the USGA Gold Etiquette 101 on their website...

Pace of Play

Play at Good Pace and Keep Up

Players should play at a good pace. The Committee may establish pace of play guidelines that all players should follow.

It is a group's responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group.

[golf2140]

You are right - sometimes it can be an accident. My hubs and I were playing Hacienda (Palms) and the group ahead of us had to wait and had gone down to the edge of the water to get a better look at some eagles. We had seen their carts further up, then they disappeared so we wrongly assumed (yes, I know) that they were moving up to the green.

I had not been playing a driver much and tried out my husband's that day on a couple of longer holes. I hit that sucker over 200 yards (a feat I have yet to repeat). When we got around the hill and saw the guys ahead of us I nearly died! I apologized; they took it in stride.

Kate (who is usually happy to reach 165 off the tee)

Kate,

Please help, I need a lesson.

:BigApplause:

[schotzyb]

We found out today that slow play is not just on The Villages Championship courses. We played Stonecrest today and it was miserably slow. We waited at least 3-5 minutes on each shot on every hole.

[graciegirl]

You are right - sometimes it can be an accident. My hubs and I were playing Hacienda (Palms) and the group ahead of us had to wait and had gone down to the edge of the water to get a better look at some eagles. We had seen their carts further up, then they disappeared so we wrongly assumed (yes, I know) that they were moving up to the green.

I had not been playing a driver much and tried out my husband's that day on a couple of longer holes. I hit that sucker over 200 yards (a feat I have yet to repeat). When we got around the hill and saw the guys ahead of us I nearly died! I apologized; they took it in stride.

Kate (who is usually happy to reach 165 off the tee)

Had been thinking how much fun it would be to play golf with you, Pooh, PTurner and ......................just crossed you off the list.:1rotfl::1rotfl:

Taj....I am going to ask you again...Were you playing in the Champion of Champions tournament?

Back to slow pace of play on Championship courses...........

Sorry Topicop..

[graciegirl]

While not in the Rules of Golf - this from the USGA Gold Etiquette 101 on their website...

Pace of Play

Play at Good Pace and Keep Up

Players should play at a good pace. The Committee may establish pace of play guidelines that all players should follow.

It is a group's responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group.

Bump

[Fourpar]

On a brighter side, we played Glenview this morning and after 2 holes the group in front of us was a hole behind. After 3 they were 1+ 1/2 behind. Ambassador came by and we asked if he would ask them to close it up between them and group in front. He did, and they tried. Pace picked up to a reasonable level. We finished in just about 4 hrs.:BigApplause: Haven't had many ambassadors do that in TV. Thanks!

[DCGolfer]

Slow play has been the subject of grumbling for-friggin'-ever! (along with parking and dog poop). Four bogey golfers hitting 90 strokes each means they must hit 360 strokes during a round (20 strokes a hole).

Newbies come out and may each hit 120+ strokes each; that's 480+ strokes a round, 35 a hole. No way they can cram that many strokes into four hours. Three possible solutions:

Play a shorter tee
Play as a three- or twosome
Pick up/move forward at triple bogey

Despite those options, many people aren't aware that they're creating a problem. Educate but they'll still dwaddle. Take deep breath. Collect good jokes to tell during the wait. That's golf.

[steamdogman]

I played Cane Gardens this morning and we had a group of six people two of whom were just along for the ride but the other 4 probably to be nice had no idea what they were doing on the course. The Ambassador was very nice and I mean very nice and cordial and he went down to the fairway on the 1st hole and told them that they needed to speed up play and pick up and put their balls on the green. He came back and told us that they were going to let us through on the second tee. They did and we played in less than 4 hours. BRAVO TO NICK THE AMBASSADOR HE DID A GREAT JOB!

[dillywho]

Slow play has been the subject of grumbling for-friggin'-ever! (along with parking and dog poop). Four bogey golfers hitting 90 strokes each means they must hit 360 strokes during a round (20 strokes a hole).

Newbies come out and may each hit 120+ strokes each; that's 480+ strokes a round, 35 a hole. No way they can cram that many strokes into four hours. Three possible solutions:

Play a shorter tee
Play as a three- or twosome
Pick up/move forward at triple bogey

Despite those options, many people aren't aware that they're creating a problem. Educate but they'll still dwaddle. Take deep breath. Collect good jokes to tell during the wait. That's golf.

I agree that newbies can often be a problem and not just because they have to hit it so many times. More than the number of strokes, they need to:

1) play when it's their turn...finish the conversations later
2) not have to mark and hole every putt no matter how many putts it takes...do gimmies...casual days are not tournaments
3) learn what is "ready golf" and practice doing it
4) mark scores and put covers back on clubs at the next hole

There's lots more, but you get the idea.

And for those who are not newbies, you are not competing at the Masters or on any tour so don't take forever on each hole by plub-bobbing from every angle, taking practice swings with every club in the bag, etc. Many single digit handicappers take much longer than ones who have to hit the ball more.

You're right.....many have no idea that they are creating a problem. Golf is their priority for that given day and they don't care how long it takes them (or you) because that's all that's on their agenda. Some actually think that an entire day at the course is what it's all about....you know - golf, eat, and replay it all at the bar/restaurant before heading home.

[Bosoxfan]

I agree that newbies can often be a problem and not just because they have to hit it so many times. . Many single digit handicappers take much longer than ones who have to hit the ball more.

You're right.....many have no idea that they are creating a problem. Golf is their priority for that given day and they don't care how long it takes them (or you) because that's all that's on their agenda.

Well it's about time someone called out the single digit handicappers.:BigApplause:

[Jhooman]

Single digit golfers can be slow too. I see it all the time in our Ladies clubs here in Ca. We had one woman who wanted to be a teaching pro and did, but she was so slow, ladies refused to play with her. Finally and gratefully she quit our club and joined a private club that would tolerate her slow play - maybe.

Last week we played Match play, our opponents were so slow, methodical, deliberate and held up the entire field. We kicked their rears, we played ready golf, but what happens when a slow player is in a group, the others start compromising their game.

What's the solution, direct communication. Tell these folks we our holding the field up, putt out, head for the next box............

But when I hear you people are playing a round in 4 to 4.5 hours I'm so jealous. If we have a 5 hour round we are elated. I can hardly wait to wait for a 4 hour round, no complaints from me.