Unfair Prosecution

[retiredguy123]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.

[jimbomaybe]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter. News reports are not necessarily to be taken at face value , but ones that I have seen suggest its more than him being their son, that things they did and did not do come into play, it will of course be very interesting to see how the different media outlets spin this.

[MrFlorida]

They are innocent until proven guilty, they will have their day in court.

[dewilson58]

Parents called to school & they refused to take him home, knowing he purchased (& had) a gun. Then the parents were on the run. :ohdear:

[Two Bills]

Parents called to school & they refused to take him home, knowing he purchased (& had) a gun. Then the parents were on the run. :ohdear:

Report I read said dad bought the gun, kid took it from unlocked drawer.
Who knows?:shrug:

[PugMom]

Report I read said dad bought the gun, kid took it from unlocked drawer.
Who knows?:shrug:

yeah, i saw that too, but just for a minute, do you think the school had the DUTY to remove him without parental approval? most may say no, but looking @ what the kid wrote & pix he drew, the school itself had the responsibility to remove him without parental approval. they call the cops in most cases you hear about-why not here?

[billethkid]

With a tread lightly approach to far too many issues these days, signs of possible problems are ignored for fear of a negative response.

See something say something has unfortunately become offensive in too many instances.....in my opinion.

[Two Bills]

yeah, i saw that too, but just for a minute, do you think the school had the DUTY to remove him without parental approval? most may say no, but looking @ what the kid wrote & pix he drew, the school itself had the responsibility to remove him without parental approval. they call the cops in most cases you hear about-why not here?

Think there will be a lot of butt covering and obfuscation before this case gets to trial.
Seems quite a few people dropped the ball somewhere along the line.

[Bonnevie]

but, people did see something and said something. caught the kid looking up ammo on his phone--calls and emails to parents got no answer. mother texted son, lol don't get caught. teacher sees note and takes photo...parents called in and won't take kid home. multiple social media where parents and child refer to it as the child's Christmas present. parents knew gun wasn't in a secure location. the school should have insisted the child be taken for psych eval immediately. so that's on them. but in this case, the evidence clearly supports parents culpability and the fact that they fled and hid only reinforces that. you can play the "what about" game all day regarding murders in Chicago, etc. but in this case there's a digital footprint of their indifference to his problems and access to a gun. and spare me the two family crap. both parents arrested for DUI, father has child support action against him, recently fired from job, wife also wrote bad checks--yeah great "2 parent" family

[billethkid]

but, people did see something and said something. caught the kid looking up ammo on his phone--calls and emails to parents got no answer. mother texted son, lol don't get caught. teacher sees note and takes photo...parents called in and won't take kid home. multiple social media where parents and child refer to it as the child's Christmas present. parents knew gun wasn't in a secure location. the school should have insisted the child be taken for psych eval immediately. so that's on them. but in this case, the evidence clearly supports parents culpability and the fact that they fled and hid only reinforces that. you can play the "what about" game all day regarding murders in Chicago, etc. but in this case there's a digital footprint of their indifference to his problems and access to a gun. and spare me the two family crap. both parents arrested for DUI, father has child support action against him, recently fired from job, wife also wrote bad checks--yeah great "2 parent" family

The culprit of the day!!

[Fredman]

Report I read said dad bought the gun, kid took it from unlocked drawer.
Who knows?:shrug:

It was an early birthday present to the son

[jdulej]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.

Just my opinion, but it seems to me that a responsible owner of a gun would accept the responsibility of keeping the weapon safe and secure from unauthorized use.
I don't know if the charges against the parents will hold up, but I hope they do and that it sets an example for all gun owners (I know most already do this with gun safes or trigger locks, etc.).

[collie1228]

On its face it may seem unfair, but think about what its long term benefits might be. We as a society have no idea how to stop these kids from shooting up their schools. Maybe if we charge and severely punish some parents, some future shooters might think twice before they put their parents in severe legal jeopardy. Just a thought.

[blueash]

I don't care if he was raised by iguanas, I don't care if his parents are the head of the local church or have a history of being Nazi death camp guards. The only thing that matters is did those accused of this crime commit this crime. Period.

If these parents had any reason to believe that the gun they apparently thought was a great Christmas gift for their child would present a risk to himself or his community, they had an obligation to all of us to lock it away. The information presented by the cops, who I do not believe tell the truth far too often [see testilying (https://www.google.com/search?q=testilying&oq=testilying&aqs=edge..69i57j0i10l7.6527j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)] is that these two adults had reason to believe that their child was dangerous and failed to act. If I know my auto brakes are failing and let you drive my car and you hit a pedestrian because the brakes failed, I am partly or even mostly to blame. I put an instrument of destruction in your hands that you could not reasonably and safely operate.

My problem is with the prosecution of a 15 year old as an adult. He is not an adult. His brain and reasoning are not fully formed. He is clearly at this time a dangerous person but he is Not an adult. We don't let him drive as we recognize his judgment to handle a car is not there yet. We don't let him vote, we don't let him join the army, he cannot sign a contract or agree to have sex with his minister as he is not old enough to be responsible in his decisions. But here, we as a society demand that his failure to use adult judgment be fully punished in the same way as an actual adult would be punished. I have a problem with that.

[dewilson58]

My problem is with the prosecution of a 15 year old as an adult. He is not an adult. His brain and reasoning are not fully formed. He is clearly at this time a dangerous person but he is Not an adult. We don't let him drive as we recognize his judgment to handle a car is not there yet.

Brain isn't fully developed until 25.........If we wait until age 25, that's a lot of 18, 20, 22 year old child criminals. :ohdear:

Lots of 15 year olds are driving.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.I don’t know what will happen with the charges against the parents , but if it makes one family get rid of a gun or make it more secure it’s a good thing .The problem I have is what makes a two parent family not living in a big city better then others who grew up in a one parent family living in a big city, I can’t even begin to think what the poster means , OH wait a minute I CAN .

[ThirdOfFive]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.
If there were any balls dropped regarding this incident, then they were dropped by the parents.

My siblings and I were raised around guns. Dad Was a collector and had over 60, Handguns and long guns, and they all worked. None were ever locked up. But we were taught from an early age how to respect and handle firearms, along with the responsibility that operating a firearm entailed. One of the few times I recall him being angry at me was when he saw me crossing the fence with a loaded rifle and without taking the cartridge out of the chamber. I was maybe 12 years old at the time, but the lesson stayed with me.

But it wasn't just guns. Our parents made sure that we understood our responsibilities no matter what we undertook. We were taught early on that actions have consequences, and that we should not only know what those consequences were but to accept responsibility for our actions. We were by no means unique: living in rural northeastern meant that all the people who lived there saw both guns and responsibilities in the same manner. Guns were a tool like any other tool, the same as an ax, a chainsaw, or any tool that if used carelessly could turn around and bite you, and deserved to be respected and handled appropriately.

This obviously did not happen in the case of this teenager. His parents, by their actions regarding this handgun, totally shirked their responsibility as a parent of this kid. The kid will pay the price, and he should. But my guess is that this incident was just the tip of an iceberg; a history of faulty parenting that probably went back to the time that he was a toddler.

[manaboutown]

Michigan school shooting: Ethan Crumbley'''s mother texted him '''don'''t do it,''' prosecutors say | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/michigan-shooter-ethan?cmpid=fb_fnc&fbclid=IwAR2216ZlRWixuUpHDk3B0DGdlMN_IQG7v7lZyI204 jIOWIOWmel0HiIJ-DM)

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Michigan school shooting: Ethan Crumbley'''s mother texted him '''don'''t do it,''' prosecutors say | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/michigan-shooter-ethan?cmpid=fb_fnc&fbclid=IwAR2216ZlRWixuUpHDk3B0DGdlMN_IQG7v7lZyI204 jIOWIOWmel0HiIJ-DM)

Which means - she knew he was planning on doing it. Otherwise there would've been no reason for her to think of sending him a text telling him not to.

[Boomer]

but, people did see something and said something. caught the kid looking up ammo on his phone--calls and emails to parents got no answer. mother texted son, lol don't get caught. teacher sees note and takes photo...parents called in and won't take kid home. multiple social media where parents and child refer to it as the child's Christmas present. parents knew gun wasn't in a secure location. the school should have insisted the child be taken for psych eval immediately. so that's on them. but in this case, the evidence clearly supports parents culpability and the fact that they fled and hid only reinforces that. you can play the "what about" game all day regarding murders in Chicago, etc. but in this case there's a digital footprint of their indifference to his problems and access to a gun. and spare me the two family crap. both parents arrested for DUI, father has child support action against him, recently fired from job, wife also wrote bad checks--yeah great "2 parent" family


Thank you, Bonnevie, for saving me time by filling in the blanks about the mother’s texts and social media posts, etc. (I was getting ready to respond to the OP with the same info you provided.)

I hope those who think these parents are being unjustly treated will look beyond what seems to be only partial information they are seeing and hearing.

The mother’s behavior — so clearly revealed in her own words — was vile beyond comprehension.

There are many parents who destroy their own children and our society reaps what those parents sow. This time there was a trail on social media.

I was teaching secondary ed when the news of Columbine hit. I immediately looked at my area and tried to assess what I would try to do to keep my students safe if shots rang out. (I actually made a plan in my head where it stayed for the many years I had remaining before retirement. I never had to find out how good my plan would have been — but I never forgot about it.)

And my guess is that we have a country full of teachers — and former teachers — who want to see these parents brought to trial. If that happens, at the very least, maybe attention to parent responsibility, in general, will get a higher profile — for maybe 15 minutes.

I am sadly not surprised by what I am seeing on TOTV from posters defending the parents who made a monster out of an innocent baby who came into their lives 15 years ago.

A “married, two-parent family” ??? I guess that’s the latest buzz being programmed. Gimme a break. These two sure ain’t no Ozzie and Harriet. And I know a euphemism when I see one.

Boomer

[retiredguy123]

My point is that is not fair for a prosecutor to charge these parents as criminals, when there are hundreds of other parents whose children have long criminal records as minors, including murder, and they are not prosecuted. It is clearly a double standard. The law should be more consistent.

[dtennent]

My point is that is not fair for a prosecutor to charge these parents as criminals, when there are hundreds of other parents whose children have long criminal records as minors, including murder, and they are not prosecuted. It is clearly a double standard. The law should be more consistent.
While there are many instances in the past where the parents should have been charged, we have to start some time. Given all of the school shootings over the past 20 years, it is high time to start charging the parents in these situations. Unfortunately, it will be the only way some folks will think about what is appropriate in raising their children.

[ThirdOfFive]

My point is that is not fair for a prosecutor to charge these parents as criminals, when there are hundreds of other parents whose children have long criminal records as minors, including murder, and they are not prosecuted. It is clearly a double standard. The law should be more consistent.
So this guy gets stopped for speeding. As the cop was writing out the ticket, the guy berates the cop. "Why was I stopped" the guy asked. " "Didn't you see all those other cars that were passing me"?

"Did you ever go fishing?" the cop asked.

"Sure" the guy replied.

"Did you ever catch every fish in the lake?"

[MDLNB]

If the kid is found guilty, execute him. If the parents are found guilty, jail them. Simple. But, until the court finds them guilty they are all considered "innocent." Case open until it isn't. Popular opinion doesn't mean anything.

[justjim]

My point is that is not fair for a prosecutor to charge these parents as criminals, when there are hundreds of other parents whose children have long criminal records as minors, including murder, and they are not prosecuted. It is clearly a double standard. The law should be more consistent.

OP, with all due respect the prosecutor is doing her job with the evidence she has available. I might add evidence that we are not privy to. However, a person is assumed innocent until proven guilty. You make some valid points and entitled to your opinion. So many cases are decided by Social Media opinions without knowing all the facts and evidence in a case. The Court/Jury will decide in due time.

[blueash]

My point is that is not fair for a prosecutor to charge these parents as criminals, when there are hundreds of other parents whose children have long criminal records as minors, including murder, and they are not prosecuted. It is clearly a double standard. The law should be more consistent.

Let me help you with that. What you meant to write was it is not fair these white people got charged when so many black kids are criminals and their parents [or as I wrote earlier single parent] get away with it.

Is that better? The answer of course is that if that single Black parent bought a gun, knowingly provided access to that gun, knew their child was thinking about killing some schoolmates and did nothing even after the school expressed concern .. all of us would want that Black parent charged. Now find me that example.

[retiredguy123]

If the kid is found guilty, execute him. If the parents are found guilty, jail them. Simple. But, until the court finds them guilty they are all considered "innocent." Case open until it isn't. Popular opinion doesn't mean anything.
The Supreme Court has ruled that people under 18 cannot get the death penalty.

[jbartle1]

My point is that is not fair for a prosecutor to charge these parents as criminals, when there are hundreds of other parents whose children have long criminal records as minors, including murder, and they are not prosecuted. It is clearly a double standard. The law should be more consistent.

Maybe LAWS SHOULD change. Let's not forget there are 4 families that will never hug their child again!

[Bonnevie]

I think more will come out. I'm sure a lot of us are wondering why the kid's back pack wasn't searched. was it because the parents said they didn't own a gun? or that the kid doesn't have access to the gun? did they forbid the search? the mother referred in the past about kid with troubles...maybe they were worried there would be more disturbing pictures? and why didn't the school require the kid to be removed immediately?? being a danger to others is justification for a 3 day psych hold. I just wonder what assurances the parents may have given for the school to think the kid posed no immediate danger.

[manaboutown]

My question is why on earth would any parent give this mentally unstable 15 year old or allow him access to a weapon of any kind?

A previous post disclosed they were not the best citizens themselves, but geez!

[JGVillages]

I think more will come out. I'm sure a lot of us are wondering why the kid's back pack wasn't searched. was it because the parents said they didn't own a gun? or that the kid doesn't have access to the gun? did they forbid the search? the mother referred in the past about kid with troubles...maybe they were worried there would be more disturbing pictures? and why didn't the school require the kid to be removed immediately?? being a danger to others is justification for a 3 day psych hold. I just wonder what assurances the parents may have given for the school to think the kid posed no immediate danger.

Agree. The school should never take assurances from the parents regarding his mental state. At the very least the child, his back-pack, and locker should be immediately searched. Law enforcement should be notified. Then and only then can an informed decision be reached. Even this may not be enough, but in this case the ball was initially dropped by the parents not securing the gun, the school believing the parents assessment of their son, and the school not searching the boy at school. Notifying law enforcement would likely have initiated the question of firearms at their home, and an investigation to see if they are secure. The local Sheriff stated today that he gets ‘WEEKLY’ alerts from local schools regarding threats. Much more to come out but I sense not only the killer, but the parents and school district are in for some tough times ahead.

[tvbound]

Let me help you with that. What you meant to write was it is not fair these white people got charged when so many black kids are criminals and their parents [or as I wrote earlier single parent] get away with it.

Is that better? The answer of course is that if that single Black parent bought a gun, knowingly provided access to that gun, knew their child was thinking about killing some schoolmates and did nothing even after the school expressed concern .. all of us would want that Black parent charged. Now find me that example.

"What you meant to write was it is not fair these white people got charged when so many black kids are criminals and their parents [or as I wrote earlier single parent] get away with it."

Thank you for getting straight to the heart of the matter, of why so many are complaining about charging the parents. Anyone watching legitimate news sources, already know how culpable these poor excuse for parents have been with this little monster. Illegally buying him the gun, telling him to avoid getting caught while shopping for ammo in the classroom, refusing to take him out of school after seeing the deadly/bloody notes he wrote, not insisting on inspecting his backpack, not telling the school he has access to a gun Etc., Etc., - is just the tip of the iceberg on why the parents should legitimately charged.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

I'm just a retired GI. I'll leave it up to prosecutors, judges, and Villagers who seem to be experts in the field.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

My question is why on earth would any parent give this mentally unstable 15 year old or allow him access to a weapon of any kind?

A previous post disclosed they were not the best citizens themselves, but geez!

Because they had the right to do so, and their freedom is more important than the safety of the general public. I thought everyone knew that by now?

[Topspinmo]

They are innocent until proven guilty, they will have their day in court.


Not really, once charged the smell of guilt leaves taste that majority don’t forget.

[Topspinmo]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.

Maybe they don’t have parent (one) that controls them, know what there doing, or where they are at any time of day or night?

[JMintzer]

Because they had the right to do so, and their freedom is more important than the safety of the general public. I thought everyone knew that by now?

Yeah, except no, they don't have that right. But you knew that and were just trying to make a political post...

[JMintzer]

Let me help you with that. What you meant to write was it is not fair these white people got charged when so many black kids are criminals and their parents [or as I wrote earlier single parent] get away with it.

Is that better? The answer of course is that if that single Black parent bought a gun, knowingly provided access to that gun, knew their child was thinking about killing some schoolmates and did nothing even after the school expressed concern .. all of us would want that Black parent charged. Now find me that example.

So, according to you, only black people are single parents and only black kids are criminals?

Personally, I thought the Parkland shooter's foster parents should have been charged, as well as the Sandy Hook mother (but, she was murdered, she has an excuse...)

[Davonu]

Originally Posted by manaboutown:
“My question is why on earth would any parent give this mentally unstable 15 year old or allow him access to a weapon of any kind?”

A previous post disclosed they were not the best citizens themselves, but geez!”

Because they had the right to do so, and their freedom is more important than the safety of the general public. I thought everyone knew that by now?
Manaboutown’s question is a legitimate one. Having the right to do something puts the responsibility on every citizen to weigh every specific situation and decide whether doing that thing is the right thing to do. I thought everyone knew that by now?

[Eg_cruz]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.
I agree, how many school shooting have the been, the one in Littleton CO the kids were building bombs in the basement and the parents were not charged.
I get the community is dealing with one of the worse tragedies but ……
I think their mad because the parents told their not to talk and lawyer up.

[bowlingal]

parents must be held accountable for their children's actions. This is the only way this madness will stop.

[Luggage]

Inaction of the parents, by not locking the gun properly, it certainly one of the main reasons for their prosecution. I have also heard although I am not sure that the police will provide free gun trigger locks in that area of the state. If the gun was a early birthday present I would be totally shocked and further concerned as to the mental culpability of the parents

[Luggage]

It's great that your father taught you respect for guns, but at any age in childhood you cannot have the same mental capabilities as an adult and I have heard plenty of stories of children playing with the guns and shooting each other at ages of young as four to eight. And especially that your father kept them unlocked is a shocking Revelation that I could have happened in your family just as easily, you were extremely lucky that it did not happen

[mike234]

you question seems to me to be black and white? why don't you just say it. don't give me that dumb act.

[mike234]

parents must be held accountable for their children's actions. This is the only way this madness will stop.
you mean like in New York Chicago and other cities, right? just like to O P asked.

[Accidental1]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.

I fail to see much similarity between the gang violence that goes on in cities all around this country and this mass murder of inocents in a high school. I wonder how many instances of gang murder are initiated by a parent buying the gangster a gun as a present? I'm guessing not many.

[msilagy]

You need to read the social media posts the mother made and the shooter himself plus the texts she sent her son. They need to do jail time for sure. This is a tragedy that could of been avoided on so many levels, the school included.

[Professor]

They bought the kid the gun. Why would a 15 year old need a hand gun? They are guilty of being stupid if nothing else...

[allsport]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.

When a parent buys a gun for a kid that has behavior problems and the parent tells the kid not to get caught the next time he does something illegal and the parents are on the lamb, any lawyer will tell you they are in deep deep trouble. It has nothing to do with a 2 parent family. Redo your information source.

[crash]

Report I read said dad bought the gun, kid took it from unlocked drawer.
Who knows?:shrug:

Yes you are correct dad bought gun and did not lock it up. Patents called to school because of issues he has the gun in his back pack. Parents leave him at school and his mother texts him don’t do it then runs when he does. No culpability there righttttttt.

[ThirdOfFive]

It's great that your father taught you respect for guns, but at any age in childhood you cannot have the same mental capabilities as an adult and I have heard plenty of stories of children playing with the guns and shooting each other at ages of young as four to eight. And especially that your father kept them unlocked is a shocking Revelation that I could have happened in your family just as easily, you were extremely lucky that it did not happen
The two biggest reasons for gun deaths and woundings in America are, by far; 1. poor (or no) parenting, and 2. an irrational fear of guns coupled with little (or no) understanding of them.

[Susan1717]

I’m from chicago and although it sure seems the Michigan parents were negligent I do agree regarding many other parents! You brought up an eye opener. Hundreds and hundreds of minors in chicago are committing crimes and murder, running around at all hours with guns. Many times, the kids haven’t seen their parents in days. Not only is Foxx letting these criminals right out of jail, but it starts with the household. The parent(s) of these kids should be held responsible as well. If the home life’s aren’t being changed, the cycle continues. There is zero help or changes I see in the chicago inner cities, except that the crime is now out of control and there are no longer any safe neighborhoods.

[Petersweeney]

Why doesn’t anyone talk about these crazy video games kids are playing? They are programming the brain to think there is no consequences to shooting…..

[Ptmckiou]

Apparently, the parents are perceived as being grossly negligent.

1. First, they purchased the firearm for their son for Christmas. He posted pics of it with him all over his social media and bragged. He is a minor and that’s illegal.

2. The kid was at school searching on his phone for ammunition for the gun, and his mother text message to him “Just don’t get caught. LOL.”

3. The day of the shooting, school officials met with the parents and kid and requested the parents take him out of school. They refused. The school showed the parents the disturbing picture their son drew and was found in his desk….kids shot and blood everywhere. Parents still refused to take son out of school.

4. While in the meeting, the son left the meeting while the parents were still talking with the school staff. At some point, the mother texted the son “Don't do it.” …it was a some point shortly afterwards that he shot all his classmates…4 dead, 7 wounded.

Parents withdrew $4000 from their bank accounts the next day and did not turn themselves in when charges were filed. They were finally found in an abandoned warehouse in another town by a top. He appeared they were hiding out,

We shall see how it plays out, but not looking good for the parents, because it seems they knew their son was troubled, allowed access to a gun ( supposedly bought it for him for Xmas), and refused to address at school the son’s behavior and actions prior to the event. Don’t know if the school had the legal means to demand the parents take the kid home, but there could be some liability there too.

[rpalumberi]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.

obviously not in all cases but I believe in general parents have responsibility for the conduct of their minor children (while they are living at home), I monitored their activities on social media and otherwise to the best of our ability - not easy, I also endeavored to be a model for them to follow, there were things I would have done differently but that's part of the parenting journey you chose to undertake when you make that decision to bring children into the world:)

[forebubba]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.

Maybe we need more good students with guns to stop a bad student with a gun.

[ThirdOfFive]

Apparently, the parents are perceived as being grossly negligent.

1. First, they purchased the firearm for their son for Christmas. He posted pics of it with him all over his social media and bragged. He is a minor and that’s illegal.

2. The kid was at school searching on his phone for ammunition for the gun, and his mother text message to him “Just don’t get caught. LOL.”

3. The day of the shooting, school officials met with the parents and kid and requested the parents take him out of school. They refused. The school showed the parents the disturbing picture their son drew and was found in his desk….kids shot and blood everywhere. Parents still refused to take son out of school.

4. While in the meeting, the son left the meeting while the parents were still talking with the school staff. At some point, the mother texted the son “Don't do it.” …it was a some point shortly afterwards that he shot all his classmates…4 dead, 7 wounded.

Parents withdrew $4000 from their bank accounts the next day and did not turn themselves in when charges were filed. They were finally found in an abandoned warehouse in another town by a top. He appeared they were hiding out,

We shall see how it plays out, but not looking good for the parents, because it seems they knew their son was troubled, allowed access to a gun ( supposedly bought it for him for Xmas), and refused to address at school the son’s behavior and actions prior to the event. Don’t know if the school had the legal means to demand the parents take the kid home, but there could be some liability there too.
All excellent points.

I firmly believe that much if not most of the ills of our society can be traced directly to bad parenting. The literal explosion of one-parent households coupled with what can best be described as a laissez-faire attitude toward parenting in general has produced a generation that has monsters all out of proportion to that of any other generation. Kids need 1. role-models (both sexes and on a consistent basis), and 2. consistent and fair discipline. Good parenting is no more complicated than that.

[Cliff Fr]

What I can't understand is why in this day and age schools are not able to keep guns and knives out of school? I'm a supporter of the 2nd amendment but let's be real, there's no need to have weapons in school. I would think that with common sense and technology we could keep weapons out of school.

[Beplion]

The parents bought the gun for their son! Gave it to him as an early birthday present. Who buys a 9mm for a 15 year old????

[dewilson58]

What I can't understand is why in this day and age schools are not able to keep guns and knives out of school? I'm a supporter of the 2nd amendment but let's be real, there's no need to have weapons in school. I would think that with common sense and technology we could keep weapons out of school.

$$$$

[ThirdOfFive]

What I can't understand is why in this day and age schools are not able to keep guns and knives out of school? I'm a supporter of the 2nd amendment but let's be real, there's no need to have weapons in school. I would think that with common sense and technology we could keep weapons out of school.
Interesting how times change.

Back in the day we used to bring our guns TO school. Gun safety was a class offered a couple of times a year, and consisted of both classroom teaching and instruction on a range near the school. It was nothing to see several kids during the time the class was offered bringing their guns on the school bus (cased, of course). Guns were stored in the principal's office until it was time to use them on the range but ammunition was usually carried loose in our pockets, and no one gave it a second thought.

Oh--and we carried knives too. No self-respecting lad back then would EVER have left the house without is trusty Barlow or Ka-bar. Useful in school especially if the pencil sharpener was on the fritz.

Interesting though...back then the three biggest behavior "problems" at school were chewing gum, running in the halls and surreptitiously passing notes in class.

What changed?

[Blackbird45]

When you own a firearm, you have a responsibility.
When you have a child, you have a responsivity.
This couple didn't meet either of these obligations.
It doesn't matter where you live.
At the very least they should be charged with negligence on both counts.

[oneclickplus]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.

How about charging the school officials with "involuntary manslaughter" for clearly not searching and finding the weapon he ALREADY had in his possession while not being disciplined in a meeting with his parents at the school?

[Proveone]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.
You are a "funny" person. Do some research and listen to accurate news coverage, instead of the Noise cable propaganda networks. Parents bought their son the gun as a Christmas present. They were informed by the school administration of problems with their son at school (i.e. looking for amo on his cell phone, graphic drawings of gun violence in his possession). The school administer school be held accountable for not asking the parents to look through his backpack, when they all met on the morning of the shooting. The parents were irresponsible. Stop making false comparisons because you may be a racist!

[macawlaw]

The prosecutor outlines the days before the shooting and the parents’ negligence.

The parents should have taken him home when the school called them in. However, the school failed to find out whether the gun was at school. A failure on both sides.


Prosecutor'''s Statement Outlines Events Before Michigan School Shooting - The New York Times (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/12/03/us/michigan-prosecutor-crumbley-charges.amp.html)

[Topspinmo]

The two biggest reasons for gun deaths and woundings in America are, by far; 1. poor (or no) parenting, and 2. an irrational fear of guns coupled with little (or no) understanding of them.

And bullying

[Topspinmo]

Interesting how times change.

Back in the day we used to bring our guns TO school. Gun safety was a class offered a couple of times a year, and consisted of both classroom teaching and instruction on a range near the school. It was nothing to see several kids during the time the class was offered bringing their guns on the school bus (cased, of course). Guns were stored in the principal's office until it was time to use them on the range but ammunition was usually carried loose in our pockets, and no one gave it a second thought.

Oh--and we carried knives too. No self-respecting lad back then would EVER have left the house without is trusty Barlow or Ka-bar. Useful in school especially if the pencil sharpener was on the fritz.

Interesting though...back then the three biggest behavior "problems" at school were chewing gum, running in the halls and surreptitiously passing notes in class.

What changed?

Back in the day in country or small towns most pickups had gun rack in back window full of shotguns and rifles.

[Bonnevie]

Why doesn’t anyone talk about these crazy video games kids are playing? They are programming the brain to think there is no consequences to shooting…..

except, children all over the world play these same video games yet this type of violence happens here.....what's different here? oh, yeah, access to guns.

[Bonnevie]

All excellent points.

I firmly believe that much if not most of the ills of our society can be traced directly to bad parenting. The literal explosion of one-parent households coupled with what can best be described as a laissez-faire attitude toward parenting in general has produced a generation that has monsters all out of proportion to that of any other generation. Kids need 1. role-models (both sexes and on a consistent basis), and 2. consistent and fair discipline. Good parenting is no more complicated than that.

you know who comes from a one parent household? everyone's righteous 2nd amendment poster child, Kyle Rittenhouse.

there are a lot of unhealthy environments in some two family households.

[blueash]

With all the vitriol on this website I just want to say Merry Christmas to everyone, and please send ammo

[Blackmagic]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.
How many times has the media posted a false narrative and for months people and even prosecutors run with falsehoods to formulate jury bias. We might want to learn by this.

[Topspinmo]

except, children all over the world play these same video games yet this type of violence happens here.....what's different here? oh, yeah, access to guns.


Maybe better parenting also?

[Belmont4-150]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.

Instead of wondering, you should educate yourself to the circumstances involved in the shooting. The father bought the gun and 3 @ 12 round clips 4 days before the shooting. The timing couldn’t be more “coincidental“. Did the father buy the gun because the son requested him to do so? Was the mother at all involved in the purchase? Was the gun even bought legally? Why wasn’t the gun safely secured? Why did the son even know that the father had bought the gun? Why did the son have access to the gun? Let the police iron this out in the proper fashion to determine where all charges will be placed.

[Ewalsh43]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.

I am sorry but no minor who is 15 years old, and who was acting out at school, and making threats should be allowed any access to weapons. It was the parents responsibility to make sure all weapons were securely locked up or removed from the home. Minors aren’t allowed to buy guns. they get them from parents who are not properly securing those weapons…plain and simple…..Yes the parents of those inner city hoodlums should also be charged. We need to return to being a nation of laws….not a nation which picks and chooses which laws are prosecuted, and which laws are ignored. Like the current administration is doing!

[manaboutown]

If the kid did not have a gun handy he might even have stolen an SUV and found a parade of people to run over. Kooks use vehicles, knives, bats, home made bombs, Molotov cocktails, hammers, crowbars, piano wire, anything they can get their hands on to kill.

His parents, judging from their histories, ain't right, either. The kid needed serious psychiatric attention, maybe under lock and key.

[70 Challenger]

You need to read the whole story, then you should understand why the parents were arrested.

[Michael G.]

Brain isn't fully developed until 25.........If we wait until age 25, that's a lot of 18, 20, 22 year old child criminals. :ohdear:

Lots of 15 year olds are driving.

Yep, a new world is coming, and this case should be interesting to watch.

He is 15, the parents are still responsible until 18 in most states.

Parents with offspring under 18-year-old are going to be part of a crime is the new world.

Maybe, just maybe parents will be more attentive to what they conceive when the courts come calling.

[mark100]

The school has a "DUTY TO PROTECT". They have not made public their side of the story,

The real problem here is that we do not know the evidence the Police/Sheriff and District Attorney have in their possession. At the "Preliminary Hearing" more information will become known.

Lets all sit back and wait for the hearing. Oxford as a community in Michigan have four families that are not going to have a very happy Christmas and Holiday Season. The injured students will have lasting memories of what took place. Let the legal system take it's course.

[Speedie]

Brain isn't fully developed until 25.........If we wait until age 25, that's a lot of 18, 20, 22 year old child criminals. :ohdear:

Lots of 15 year olds are driving.

We need to support the plan to allow 18 year olds to drive 60,000 lb tractor trailer rigs down the interstates

[conman5652@aol.com]

They bought the gun and didn’t lock it up. That’s why

[Carlsondm]

He brought a gun to school. His parents knew it. His parents bought it for HIM. His mother told him not to get caught.

The school found indications of mental problems. They scheduled counseling for him at the meeting with them That day. The school acted responsibly in seeking help for the teen. They did not know he had a weapon. The parents did. Also consider that schools have been restricted in actions "against" students. Mom even told the kid not to get caught. This sounds like a deadly, dysfunctional family.

[Carlsondm]

He brought a gun to school. His parents knew it. His parents bought it for HIM. His mother told him not to get caught.

The school found indications of mental problems. They scheduled counseling for him at the meeting with them That day. The school acted responsibly in seeking help for the teen. They did not know he had a weapon. The parents did. Also consider that schools have been restricted in actions "against" students. The fact that Mom told the kid not to get caught did it for us. This sounds like a deadly, dysfunctional family.

Our family lives close to the community.

[Carlsondm]

Maybe we need more good students with guns to stop a bad student with a gun.
Bad idea. Kids are in school to grow their brains properly. Guns should not be a part of school, Church, typical public gatherings. The kids have enough challenges, especially after the trauma of the last 2 years.

[ThirdOfFive]

And bullying
That may be a catalyst but it is not a cause. Plenty of kids got bullied back in the day as well. None that I ever knew of shot up the school because of it.

Good parenting teaches how to handle such situations.

[DaleDivine]

Brain isn't fully developed until 25.........If we wait until age 25, that's a lot of 18, 20, 22 year old child criminals. :ohdear:

Lots of 15 year olds are driving.

There are some here in The Villages that aren't fully developed also...

:MOJE_whot::a040::bigbow:

[Himmelein]

Absolute waste of time to even think about anything that media, twitter or other media say.

[asianthree]

A dear friend who I worked with for years, has a daughter in that school. Her daughter was not one of the fatalities, or physically shot. Some were friends, the rest she knew, it’s a small community compared to other areas.

I have spoken with my friend several times, grateful her daughter is physically fine, but mentally time will tell. It’s easy to just get info from the media. It’s hard when it’s in your circle.

As for the parents arrest, Michigan’s prosecutor has my high regards. As a parent, and grandparent, I could truthfully say, I would not be a good candidate for the jury pool, for the parents or their son.

[HORNET]

Check out the real story, not the media on TV. The facts of what the parents did and did not do to stop their son, warrants their arrest.

[manaboutown]

Crumbley parents charges '''absolutely warranted,''' each could face 15 years, former US attorney says | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/crumbley-parents-charges-absolutely-warranted-each-could-face-15-years-former-us-attorney-says?cmpid=fb_fnc&fbclid=IwAR3t488fgHVVGnqTQSOdC2UyvoAx1Nw02JmN38BxC zw2hdm19ryUBOga5jI)

[GOLFER54]

Sadly we hear about these terrible going ons in schools today at least once a month where innocent children are killed by some other disturbed child. Some teachers and professors for decades have poisoned the minds of our youth leaving them confused and angry, they in turn create chaos, violence and murders.When the majority of us went to school these types of murders were unheard of. Our society has become much more dangerous and taking a persons life means absolutely nothing to some.

[msilagy]

Son bragged on social media the gun was his new Christmas present and so did mom say they were shooting the gun together which was his Christmas present. Sadly, it belonged to the kid. The parents may pay for their stupidity.

[msilagy]

I can't believe anyone would question this kid being tried as an adult - he killed 4 innocent kids and wounded many others with the intention of killing many more. He needs to be in prison for life - not in a juvenile detention center!!!! I can just imagine how that thought process would change if it was "your" child that was murdered!!!!!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Check out the real story, not the media on TV. The facts of what the parents did and did not do to stop their son, warrants their arrest.

So, where do you feel people will find the "real story" not the media on TV? I don't watch TV. What I've seen were videos from the Sheriff's office, live broadcasts online on various media, including the network news (but not exclusively network news).

I've read op-eds and analyses (neither of which are actual information/news) on assorted online media websites (such as the Hill and yes even Breitbart).

Turns out, the information I've seen from various online sources has provided me with an opinion:

The kid is 100% guilty of murder. The parents are 100% complicit in the murder, I'd charge them with accessory, negligence, homicide, federal counts of evasion (since they were in the process of planning to cross the Canadian border when they were caught in the warehouse in a border town), child abuse, child negligence, child abandonment, for starters.

The kid needs to be put away for a long time. He should be put in whatever equivalent Juvenile Detention has for a maximum security facility until he turns 16, and then transferred to adult prison. He should not be in adult prison until he turns 16 though.

He should also be on track to complete his high school education, get some actual skills, and be put on some kind of work detail in prison. He needs to be punished, but he's not so old that he can't be rehabilitated. He needs to have that opportunity. While he's in prison.

[Bonnevie]

Maybe better parenting also?

well, since the US lags far behind in maternal and paternal leave, child care support, universal health coverage--all of which would help alleviate stresses on parents, you may have something there.

otherwise, I would guess other countries have bad parents, too.

[Bonnevie]

If the kid did not have a gun handy he might even have stolen an SUV and found a parade of people to run over. Kooks use vehicles, knives, bats, home made bombs, Molotov cocktails, hammers, crowbars, piano wire, anything they can get their hands on to kill.

His parents, judging from their histories, ain't right, either. The kid needed serious psychiatric attention, maybe under lock and key.

I haven't read about any kid that didn't have access to a gun do any of the things you mentioned. the Columbine kids had explosives but mainly killed with guns. Guns are what all these incidents have in common.

[kenoc7]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.
This post reeks of implicit bias and white privilege.

[manaboutown]

I haven't read about any kid that didn't have access to a gun do any of the things you mentioned. the Columbine kids had explosives but mainly killed with guns. Guns are what all these incidents have in common.

Didn't you hear? Three teenagers charged with killing high school classmate with knife and sword | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/miramar-high-school-murder-florida-sword-b1946427.html)

Third teen in custody in deadly hammer attack | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2014/12/01/us/st-louis-man-killed-hammer-attack/index.html)

Strangled with wire, stabbed with stick: 4 Youths Tied to Secret Club Seized in Killing - Los Angeles Times (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-06-13-mn-146-story.html)

stun gun: Teens get maximum sentence in death of Uber Eats driver (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/teens-get-maximum-sentence-death-uber-eats-driver-n1273276)

While 39 and not a teenager, he inflicted multiple vehicular homicides and injuries. Wisconsin: Five dead after car ploughs into Waukesha Christmas parade - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59369492)

[JMintzer]

The two biggest reasons for gun deaths and woundings in America are, by far; 1. poor (or no) parenting, and 2. an irrational fear of guns coupled with little (or no) understanding of them.

The biggest reason for gun deaths in America is suicide, by a very large margin...

[JMintzer]

This post reeks of implicit bias and white privilege.

Only if you insist on viewing it thru that prism...

[Villages Kahuna]

this post serves no legitimate purpose

please remove it

[Number 10 GI]

Inaction of the parents, by not locking the gun properly, it certainly one of the main reasons for their prosecution. I have also heard although I am not sure that the police will provide free gun trigger locks in that area of the state. If the gun was a early birthday present I would be totally shocked and further concerned as to the mental culpability of the parents

If the gun was purchased new then there is a gun lock included in the box the gun came in. This is a federal requirement. If it was a used gun then it is very possible there was no lock included in the sale.

[Number 10 GI]

We need to support the plan to allow 18 year olds to drive 60,000 lb tractor trailer rigs down the interstates

An 18 year old can obtain a commercial drivers license that will allow him/her to drive 60,000 lb tractor trailer.

Have a valid regular (non-commercial) driver’s license and be at least 18 years old (in most states).
Be at least 21 years old:
To drive a commercial motor vehicle across state lines (interstate).
To drive a commercial motor vehicle that contains hazardous materials.
Have at least one or two years of driving experience (depending on the state)

[NAB20]

My question is why on earth would any parent give this mentally unstable 15 year old or allow him access to a weapon of any kind?

A previous post disclosed they were not the best citizens themselves, but geez!
That was my thought, as well. What kind of sense does that make? Giving an unstable, immature person a gun for a gift. Too bad the money wasn't sped on counseling. Seems like that just happened in another recent shooting. I am glad to see the parents are being charged, whatever that charge ends up being.

[karostay]

What part off Help Help Help didn't they understand !!!!!!
Police should have been called immediately !

Could have been avoided

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Didn't you hear? Three teenagers charged with killing high school classmate with knife and sword | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/miramar-high-school-murder-florida-sword-b1946427.html)

Third teen in custody in deadly hammer attack | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2014/12/01/us/st-louis-man-killed-hammer-attack/index.html)

Strangled with wire, stabbed with stick: 4 Youths Tied to Secret Club Seized in Killing - Los Angeles Times (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-06-13-mn-146-story.html)

stun gun: Teens get maximum sentence in death of Uber Eats driver (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/teens-get-maximum-sentence-death-uber-eats-driver-n1273276)

While 39 and not a teenager, he inflicted multiple vehicular homicides and injuries. Wisconsin: Five dead after car ploughs into Waukesha Christmas parade - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59369492)

Here's the difference between all those things and shootings:

A knife's primary purpose is to cut things. Killing people is one of many results that can come from using a knife to cut things, but killing people is not its primary purpose.

A sword - is definitely made to kill people. But it can kill only one person at a time, somewhat slowly, slow enough that anyone else in close proximity can easily get away. It is close-range exclusively - throwing swords is not a thing.

Hammer's primary function is to drive nails, stakes, and similar into surfaces, and remove those nails, stakes, and similar from those surfaces. Secondary function is to secure things that are already placed down to ensure a good fit (such as floor planks, though usually a rubber mallet would be more efficient). Hammers are not intended to be weapons at all, regardless of how they are eventually used.

Wires have many functions - killing is not an -intended- function of them, regardless of how they end up being used.

Stun guns are absolutely weapons - that are intended to cause pain and halt of movement, instead of causing death. Regardless of the ultimate result.

Motor vehicles primary function is to transport people and things from point A to point B. Regardless of how it ends up being used.

Guns with live ammunition - primary purpose - is to kill. People, animals - but that is what they're for. They aren't made to drive nails through wood. They can't get you from point A to point B. They can't cut a steak or strip the skin off a fish. You can't use a gun to network your computer system. No - it's #1 primary function - the reason it exists, the reason people get trained to use them - is to kill.

[Boomer]

I decided to delete my long post written here this morning on the subject of how different things are now for teachers. I got out just in time.

Wrote it. Then deleted it. Twice. Good exercise though.

Boomer

[ThirdOfFive]

Here's the difference between all those things and shootings:

A knife's primary purpose is to cut things. Killing people is one of many results that can come from using a knife to cut things, but killing people is not its primary purpose.

A sword - is definitely made to kill people. But it can kill only one person at a time, somewhat slowly, slow enough that anyone else in close proximity can easily get away. It is close-range exclusively - throwing swords is not a thing.

Hammer's primary function is to drive nails, stakes, and similar into surfaces, and remove those nails, stakes, and similar from those surfaces. Secondary function is to secure things that are already placed down to ensure a good fit (such as floor planks, though usually a rubber mallet would be more efficient). Hammers are not intended to be weapons at all, regardless of how they are eventually used.

Wires have many functions - killing is not an -intended- function of them, regardless of how they end up being used.

Stun guns are absolutely weapons - that are intended to cause pain and halt of movement, instead of causing death. Regardless of the ultimate result.

Motor vehicles primary function is to transport people and things from point A to point B. Regardless of how it ends up being used.

Guns with live ammunition - primary purpose - is to kill. People, animals - but that is what they're for. They aren't made to drive nails through wood. They can't get you from point A to point B. They can't cut a steak or strip the skin off a fish. You can't use a gun to network your computer system. No - it's #1 primary function - the reason it exists, the reason people get trained to use them - is to kill.
Nothing mentioned has a will of it's own.

But hey! If your aim is to kill a lot of people in a very short time, a truckload of fertilizer serves admirably. Just ask Timothy McVeigh.

[PugMom]

Think there will be a lot of butt covering and obfuscation before this case gets to trial.
Seems quite a few people dropped the ball somewhere along the line.

i think you are correct, my friend. a perfect storm of circumstances

[manaboutown]

Here's the difference between all those things and shootings:

A knife's primary purpose is to cut things. Killing people is one of many results that can come from using a knife to cut things, but killing people is not its primary purpose.

A sword - is definitely made to kill people. But it can kill only one person at a time, somewhat slowly, slow enough that anyone else in close proximity can easily get away. It is close-range exclusively - throwing swords is not a thing.

Hammer's primary function is to drive nails, stakes, and similar into surfaces, and remove those nails, stakes, and similar from those surfaces. Secondary function is to secure things that are already placed down to ensure a good fit (such as floor planks, though usually a rubber mallet would be more efficient). Hammers are not intended to be weapons at all, regardless of how they are eventually used.

Wires have many functions - killing is not an -intended- function of them, regardless of how they end up being used.

Stun guns are absolutely weapons - that are intended to cause pain and halt of movement, instead of causing death. Regardless of the ultimate result.

Motor vehicles primary function is to transport people and things from point A to point B. Regardless of how it ends up being used.

Guns with live ammunition - primary purpose - is to kill. People, animals - but that is what they're for. They aren't made to drive nails through wood. They can't get you from point A to point B. They can't cut a steak or strip the skin off a fish. You can't use a gun to network your computer system. No - it's #1 primary function - the reason it exists, the reason people get trained to use them - is to kill.

Guns are valuable for self defense. Many people are alive today because they used a gun in self defense. The problem is not the gun, per se, it is the user. Guns do not go off by themselves no matter what Alec Baldwin alleges.

[manaboutown]

I decided to delete my long post written here this morning on the subject of how different things are now for teachers. I got out just in time.

In grad school ed law, we talked about in loco parentis — which would have made a locker and backpack search happen without question. — but now the “loco” part of that phrase appears to have a different connotation.

A classmate friend of mine had an older brother who taught mathematics at the junior high school we attended. It was located in a good part of town. Many parents were professionals or owned businesses. We were the HS class of 1960. Anyway, in 1976 my friend and I reconnected and we visited his then retired older brother who with the retired shop teacher were building homes. It turns out both teachers had retired in their early to mid fifties literally the first day they could. I asked them why. Their reply was "The kids changed." Now that was 45 years ago. It was a cakewalk compared to today. Those "kids who had changed" are the parents and grandparents of today's kids which is telling.

[Yjacket74]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.

It's high time for adults to be held accountable for their children shooting other students. These parents were totally irresponsible.

I'm amazed that people want to hold the school accountable. BUT it's the parent's responsibility to take the advice of the school and its teachers. The school told the parents the boy needed counseling and the parents did nothing.

The parents bought the gun for their child - a semiautomatic at that. I want law enforcement to charge more parents for these killings. I don't want to worry about my grandchildren at school.

[manaboutown]

Michigan superintendent announces independent investigation of actions leading up to Oxford High shooting | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/michigan-superintendent-announces-independent-investigation-of-actions-leading-up-to-oxford-high-shooting?cmpid=fb_fnc&fbclid=IwAR3aAdvoJRdqRZj1xel3YFVLi2hjzDFft34gpPyzq jlDtdBPCNqwYM6VEe4)

Oxford School officials could be charged in deadly Michigan shooting: prosecutor | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/michigan-school-shooting-school-officials-could-be-charged?cmpid=fb_fnc&fbclid=IwAR0zb1mNPCNy-O-LTXpF4-leGYncK3kuhWTLKjhqu6S2uVk6Vty0wqXBrMk)

[JMintzer]

Here's the difference between all those things and shootings:

A knife's primary purpose is to cut things. Killing people is one of many results that can come from using a knife to cut things, but killing people is not its primary purpose.

A sword - is definitely made to kill people. But it can kill only one person at a time, somewhat slowly, slow enough that anyone else in close proximity can easily get away. It is close-range exclusively - throwing swords is not a thing.

Hammer's primary function is to drive nails, stakes, and similar into surfaces, and remove those nails, stakes, and similar from those surfaces. Secondary function is to secure things that are already placed down to ensure a good fit (such as floor planks, though usually a rubber mallet would be more efficient). Hammers are not intended to be weapons at all, regardless of how they are eventually used.

Wires have many functions - killing is not an -intended- function of them, regardless of how they end up being used.

Stun guns are absolutely weapons - that are intended to cause pain and halt of movement, instead of causing death. Regardless of the ultimate result.

Motor vehicles primary function is to transport people and things from point A to point B. Regardless of how it ends up being used.

Guns with live ammunition - primary purpose - is to kill. People, animals - but that is what they're for. They aren't made to drive nails through wood. They can't get you from point A to point B. They can't cut a steak or strip the skin off a fish. You can't use a gun to network your computer system. No - it's #1 primary function - the reason it exists, the reason people get trained to use them - is to kill.

Odd... Mine have never killed anything (except for some clay targets and paper)...

I must be using them wrong...

[MEbner2805]

Ethan Crumbley, 15, has been arrested and charged with 4 counts of murder in the Michigan school shooting. He will be tried as an adult. Now, his parents have also been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter, even though school officials also had information about the possibility that the student could commit a violent crime.

Almost every day, you read about murders and other violent crimes being committed by minors in New York, Chicago, and other cities. But, I rarely hear about their parents being arrested in connection with those crimes. I wonder if the parents of Ethan Crumbley are being penalized because they are married and living in a two-parent family situation, and not in a large city. To me, it seems incredibly inequitable for them to be charged with manslaughter.

This isn’t the place to discuss politics or news or social events outside the Villages!!!!

You might educate yourself on this criminal case before posting any opinion as you are going to get jumped bad! Let’s not sympathize for some mentally ill evil punk kid who just murdered other kids at a school taking away their lives and ruining hundreds of other lives to include the public who is outraged right now!!!! Go on court TV to discuss that stuff with those listings on the case there! Plenty of others have opinions there you can banter with! Here we are trying to be retired from our jobs and from the rest of the evil world and you should too!!!! Less stress. Less anger. More Happiness. More Peace! Less hate! That’s what matters now.

[meme5x]

yeah, i saw that too, but just for a minute, do you think the school had the DUTY to remove him without parental approval? most may say no, but looking @ what the kid wrote & pix he drew, the school itself had the responsibility to remove him without parental approval. they call the cops in most cases you hear about-why not here?
Being a former school counselor we were bound to report to authorities or face liability ..so I question why the school itself didn’t do more than inform the parents. Think more needs to be investigated.

[Caymus]

Guns with live ammunition - primary purpose - is to kill. People, animals - but that is what they're for. They aren't made to drive nails through wood.


I guess you never used a hammer gun (live load) to drive a nail into concrete.:icon_wink:

[MDLNB]

Odd... Mine have never killed anything (except for some clay targets and paper)...

I must be using them wrong...


You got it wrong. People don't kill, guns kill. Far as I know, none of mine have killed either. OF course, some of them may have before I owned them.

I remember back in the 70's when I arrived on a domestic call, a guy came out of the house kind of bloody and in disarray. He had just sunk an ax blade into the forehead of his wife. He said, "I didn't do it. I don't know how that happened." It was obvious that the ax was the perpetrator. :1rotfl:

[manaboutown]

Even an umbrella can be used to assault and possibly kill someone.

Video: Alec Baldwin Chases After Reporter in NYC, Where He's Set to Host an Awards Gala (https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/12/07/alec-baldwin-rages-at-reporter-in-nyc-where-he-will-host-an-awards-gala/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR12hKwWrhmg4g3_loqVs_WnZn5Ndhg3YPIn1v5mT 5ngrx9Ezy1mjrRBg10)

https://www.geriwalton.com/the-umbrella-as-weapon/

[Bonnevie]

Didn't you hear? Three teenagers charged with killing high school classmate with knife and sword | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/miramar-high-school-murder-florida-sword-b1946427.html)

Third teen in custody in deadly hammer attack | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2014/12/01/us/st-louis-man-killed-hammer-attack/index.html)

Strangled with wire, stabbed with stick: 4 Youths Tied to Secret Club Seized in Killing - Los Angeles Times (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-06-13-mn-146-story.html)

stun gun: Teens get maximum sentence in death of Uber Eats driver (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/teens-get-maximum-sentence-death-uber-eats-driver-n1273276)

While 39 and not a teenager, he inflicted multiple vehicular homicides and injuries. Wisconsin: Five dead after car ploughs into Waukesha Christmas parade - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59369492)

I took the time to read each of your citations and noted that none of them happened in a school. so, yes, others weapons can kill....but there seems to be some allure to gunning fellow students in the schools.

[manaboutown]

I took the time to read each of your citations and noted that none of them happened in a school. so, yes, others weapons can kill....but there seems to be some allure to gunning fellow students in the schools.

None of them happened in a school. I wanted to illustrate that many things can be used as weapons and have by teenagers.

I agree with you that schools are no place children should secretly bring guns. Back in 1959 a problem kid I knew all too well brought a .22 rifle to school to use to threaten another boy who allegedly had showed an interest in his girlfriend. He had stuffed the rifle down his Levi's pant leg and was comically walking around stiff legged. At some point one or more male teachers spotted him and dealt with it. He should have been expelled but continued attending school apparently without a hiccup.

One of my classmates became an architect who designed commercial buildings, including schools. When I chatted with him at the 30th reunion he told me he was designing schools set up with metal detectors to screen entering students and other security features. I responded that sounds like what is built into prisons. He sadly nodded his head. What has this world come to?

Also at that reunion in 1990 we toured our old HS. It had a police substation installed in it. The neighborhood had radically changed and that area had become know as the "war zone". International District, Albuquerque, New Mexico - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_District,_Albuquerque,_New_Mexico)

[xNYer]

OP, with all due respect the prosecutor is doing her job with the evidence she has available. I might add evidence that we are not privy to. However, a person is assumed innocent until proven guilty. You make some valid points and entitled to your opinion. So many cases are decided by Social Media opinions without knowing all the facts and evidence in a case. The Court/Jury will decide in due time.

Somehow not being for a city and being from a two parent family absolves them of guilt.
We know what you really mean.

[Number 10 GI]

This country has a VIOLENCE problem and we need to figure out why and work on fixing that problem. You can ban guns, swords, bow and arrows, crossbows, knives, crowbars, hammers or any other tool used to kill but that won't stop the violence. Violent people will find a way to commit murder regardless of bans on any kind of weapon or possible weapon. Stop focusing on the tool and concentrate on the tool operator.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

This country has a VIOLENCE problem and we need to figure out why and work on fixing that problem. You can ban guns, swords, bow and arrows, crossbows, knives, crowbars, hammers or any other tool used to kill but that won't stop the violence. Violent people will find a way to commit murder regardless of bans on any kind of weapon or possible weapon. Stop focusing on the tool and concentrate on the tool operator.

If you did that, you'd need to point a finger at the parents - and THEIR parents, who brought up parents who are so lousy at parenting their own kids.

That would mean - pointing the finger at the vast majority of Villagers, since they ARE those grandparents who raised the generation that raised the current crop of teenagers.

And we can't have that. So instead, we blame the schools. Or we blame the "system." Or we blame the government, or we blame too many gun restrictions, not enough gun restrictions...

The problem is with the generations that created this toxic environment that the younger generation is now stuck living in.

[Accidental1]

Interesting how times change.

Back in the day we used to bring our guns TO school. Gun safety was a class offered a couple of times a year, and consisted of both classroom teaching and instruction on a range near the school. It was nothing to see several kids during the time the class was offered bringing their guns on the school bus (cased, of course). Guns were stored in the principal's office until it was time to use them on the range but ammunition was usually carried loose in our pockets, and no one gave it a second thought.

Oh--and we carried knives too. No self-respecting lad back then would EVER have left the house without is trusty Barlow or Ka-bar. Useful in school especially if the pencil sharpener was on the fritz.

Interesting though...back then the three biggest behavior "problems" at school were chewing gum, running in the halls and surreptitiously passing notes in class.

What changed?
I wonder how the number of guns per capita has changed over time?

[Lindsyburnsy]

Sounds like model parents to me. A lot like Rittenhouse’s mother. Who thinks it’s good parenting by taking their underage kid across state lines with an AK15 that he illegally possessed. I’m sure her day in court will come too. Parents called to school & they refused to take him home, knowing he purchased (& had) a gun. Then the parents were on the run. :ohdear:

[Lindsyburnsy]

People hv not learned how to take responsibility for their own actions. If you did that, you'd need to point a finger at the parents - and THEIR parents, who brought up parents who are so lousy at parenting their own kids.

That would mean - pointing the finger at the vast majority of Villagers, since they ARE those grandparents who raised the generation that raised the current crop of teenagers.

And we can't have that. So instead, we blame the schools. Or we blame the "system." Or we blame the government, or we blame too many gun restrictions, not enough gun restrictions...

The problem is with the generations that created this toxic environment that the younger generation is now stuck living in.

[Lindsyburnsy]

Certain news stations constantly spew unjustness, people trying to replace us, anger, anger, that works up negativism and rage, to boost ratings. You can’t cut down a tree without a saw. Free for all gun ownership is dangerous. QUOTE=Number 10 GI;2037653]This country has a VIOLENCE problem and we need to figure out why and work on fixing that problem. You can ban guns, swords, bow and arrows, crossbows, knives, crowbars, hammers or any other tool used to kill but that won't stop the violence. Violent people will find a way to commit murder regardless of bans on any kind of weapon or possible weapon. Stop focusing on the tool and concentrate on the tool operator.[/QUOTE]

[MDLNB]

If you did that, you'd need to point a finger at the parents - and THEIR parents, who brought up parents who are so lousy at parenting their own kids.

That would mean - pointing the finger at the vast majority of Villagers, since they ARE those grandparents who raised the generation that raised the current crop of teenagers.

And we can't have that. So instead, we blame the schools. Or we blame the "system." Or we blame the government, or we blame too many gun restrictions, not enough gun restrictions...

The problem is with the generations that created this toxic environment that the younger generation is now stuck living in.


Nope, not "the vast majority" of Villagers. I do agree that it is lenient parents that are the root cause. But, contributing to that is the hippy ideology taught in our public schools and lack of discipline. The radical brainwashing on TV programs doesn't help either. Violent games being allowed by parents at home, is not helpful.

[ThirdOfFive]

I wonder how the number of guns per capita has changed over time?
I imagine that the number of guns have always been on the increase. The TOTAL number of guns in America is estimated by some pretty reliable sources as about half a billion, give or take a few hundred thousand either way. Per capita? pretty much the same, I would think, if you are looking at the population as a whole. But in my opinion gun ownership is not the same as owning, say, socks. Gun aficionados, in my opinion, may own multiple guns, while some of the more fervent anti-gunners avoid them like the plague.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Nope, not "the vast majority" of Villagers. I do agree that it is lenient parents that are the root cause. But, contributing to that is the hippy ideology taught in our public schools and lack of discipline. The radical brainwashing on TV programs doesn't help either. Violent games being allowed by parents at home, is not helpful.

You really need to learn more about the words you choose. "Hippy [sic] ideology" is the antithesis to what's going on here, and it's not being taught in schools. Or in the home, or even in churches, and certainly not politics.

The "peace love and crunchy granola" ideology has taken a back seat to "power at all costs" ideology.

The Hippie movement was rife with drugs, but mostly it was about peaceful protest and anti-war.

[Bonnevie]

This country has a VIOLENCE problem and we need to figure out why and work on fixing that problem. You can ban guns, swords, bow and arrows, crossbows, knives, crowbars, hammers or any other tool used to kill but that won't stop the violence. Violent people will find a way to commit murder regardless of bans on any kind of weapon or possible weapon. Stop focusing on the tool and concentrate on the tool operator.

that's the argument made after all these shootings. don't look at guns at the cause....but, then what do you propose to tackle the problem of keeping guns out of the hands of these people? are you at least advocating for more funds for school counselors so these kids can be helped before becoming violent?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

It's interesting to see which members insist "it's not guns that kill people, it's people who kill people! Don't take away the guns!"

And the same people who also insist "It's the turn signals that create problems, not people driving incorrectly! Take away the turn signals!"


(disclosure: I'm all for 2A, and equally for restrictions on who may use them firearm -types- and proving qualifications for use (licensing). I'm also all for turn signals, and equally for restrictions on who may use golf carts and proving qualifications for use (licensing).

[MDLNB]

You really need to learn more about the words you choose. "Hippy [sic] ideology" is the antithesis to what's going on here, and it's not being taught in schools. Or in the home, or even in churches, and certainly not politics.

The "peace love and crunchy granola" ideology has taken a back seat to "power at all costs" ideology.

The Hippie movement was rife with drugs, but mostly it was about peaceful protest and anti-war.


A word substitution sometimes has to be used to prevent being punished/banned/sent to the penalty box. But, the term "hippy" was probably understood by most others on here, for what it was meant to convey. Sorry if it went over your head. Either you did not catch on to it or you took exception to it. Whatever.........

[MDLNB]

It's interesting to see which members insist "it's not guns that kill people, it's people who kill people! Don't take away the guns!"

And the same people who also insist "It's the turn signals that create problems, not people driving incorrectly! Take away the turn signals!"


(disclosure: I'm all for 2A, and equally for restrictions on who may use them firearm -types- and proving qualifications for use (licensing). I'm also all for turn signals, and equally for restrictions on who may use golf carts and proving qualifications for use (licensing).


Yes, there is a certain segment of folks that would regulate every aspect of life. There is NO need for more rules and regulations when the existing ones on the books are not enforced. STOP signs are not just for registered vehicles. The traffic signs are for ALL, including golf carts and bikes. Time to cast blame where it is....on the dummies that refuse to believe that rules apply to them. Driving is a privilege NOT a right. If one wishes to poke around in a golf cart, then they should understand how it operates and turn their signals off after making a turn. I do not condemn anyone for forgetting. Many folks, old and young forget when they are not automated turn signals. Even I have forgotten on an occasion. Seems to me that folks our age would have learned patience by now. The ONLY reason for being in a hurry is to get to the ER or beat the rush hour traffic heading for the Golden Corral so you can get in at the head of the supper line.

[jimbomaybe]

You really need to learn more about the words you choose. "Hippy [sic] ideology" is the antithesis to what's going on here, and it's not being taught in schools. Or in the home, or even in churches, and certainly not politics.

The "peace love and crunchy granola" ideology has taken a back seat to "power at all costs" ideology.

The Hippie movement was rife with drugs, but mostly it was about peaceful protest and anti-war. As many times as I have disagreed with you are certainly right on this the "Hippy" is personified by peace , love, chill out bro, non violent, (of course the right drugs help a lot)

[manaboutown]

Sounds like model parents to me. A lot like Rittenhouse’s mother. Who thinks it’s good parenting by taking their underage kid across state lines with an AK15 that he illegally possessed. I’m sure her day in court will come too.

This allegation is defamatory nonsense.These are not the facts which were brought out in the trial.

[manaboutown]

that's the argument made after all these shootings. don't look at guns at the cause....but, then what do you propose to tackle the problem of keeping guns out of the hands of these people? are you at least advocating for more funds for school counselors so these kids can be helped before becoming violent?

Looks like kids these days are violent with or without guns or other types of weapons. They can gang up on, for example a bus driver, and use their fists.

Chicago chaos: Public bus driver hospitalized after beaten on street, 21 juveniles arrested | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/chicago-public-bus-driver-hospitalized-beaten-teenager-charged)

https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/boy-shot-cta-bus-driver-beaten-as-large-group-of-juveniles-flood-the-loop-and-millennium-park.html

[Number 10 GI]

Looks like kids these days are violent with or without guns or other types of weapons. They can gang up on, for example a bus driver, and use their fists.

Chicago chaos: Public bus driver hospitalized after beaten on street, 21 juveniles arrested | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/chicago-public-bus-driver-hospitalized-beaten-teenager-charged)

https://cwbchicago.com/2021/12/boy-shot-cta-bus-driver-beaten-as-large-group-of-juveniles-flood-the-loop-and-millennium-park.html

Skate boards are being used quite often to assault someone and they can be a deadly weapon.

[jimbomaybe]

This allegation is defamatory nonsense.These are not the facts which were brought out in the trial. Why let facts get in the way of programed opinions ?

[JMintzer]

Somehow not being for a city and being from a two parent family absolves them of guilt.
We know what you really mean.

We do?

Please enlighten us...

[JMintzer]

Sounds like model parents to me. A lot like Rittenhouse’s mother. Who thinks it’s good parenting by taking their underage kid across state lines with an AK15 that he illegally possessed. I’m sure her day in court will come too.

That would be a terrible parent!

Good thing she never did any of that. You would have know it if you had actually watched the trial, rather than get your news from talking heads with an agenda...

[Bonnevie]

That would be a terrible parent!

Good thing she never did any of that. You would have know it if you had actually watched the trial, rather than get your news from talking heads with an agenda...

no this is what happened: According to court documents and testimony, Kyle Rittenhouse arrived in Kenosha on his own and went to the protest with a friend who provided him with the gun. The gun was kept at the home of the friend’s stepfather in Kenosha.

and Wendy Rittenhouse told the Chicago Tribune in November that she would have tried to stop her son from going to Kenosha, but she didn’t know where he was or what he was doing.

so she has a 17 year old son who lives at home, and she had no idea he has bought a gun (which a friend bought and stored for him) and had no idea where he was.

I'd say it was a school night, but he had dropped out of high school. so she may not have driven him, but she's hardly the model of a mother.

[JMintzer]

no this is what happened: According to court documents and testimony, Kyle Rittenhouse arrived in Kenosha on his own and went to the protest with a friend who provided him with the gun. The gun was kept at the home of the friend’s stepfather in Kenosha.

and Wendy Rittenhouse told the Chicago Tribune in November that she would have tried to stop her son from going to Kenosha, but she didn’t know where he was or what he was doing.

so she has a 17 year old son who lives at home, and she had no idea he has bought a gun (which a friend bought and stored for him) and had no idea where he was.

I'd say it was a school night, but he had dropped out of high school. so she may not have driven him, but she's hardly the model of a mother.

I never said she was. I was simply commenting on the erroneous information posted.

I never said a word about what you are commenting on, so I'm not sure why you're directing your comment to me...

[JMintzer]

well, show me the citation where someone in a school setting killed 4 people with a skateboard, or 17 that were killed in Parkland

the issue is gun shooting in schools that started this discussion. yes, there's other types of violence with teenagers just as there's examples of violence in general (Jan. 6 anyone?)

Most of late spring thru the fall of 2020 anyone?

[Lindsyburnsy]

Dad bought the gun and the kid was with him at the time. Posted pics of himself with the gun stating "my new Christmas present". At that age, a new pair of athletic shoes would have been more appropriate.

[MDLNB]

Dad bought the gun and the kid was with him at the time. Posted pics of himself with the gun stating "my new Christmas present". At that age, a new pair of athletic shoes would have been more appropriate.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

My grandson, now a junior in HS, shot his first buck at age 11yo and his father had the head mounted for display. My children grew up handling firearms and understand firearm safety. I have given my grandson rifles in the past. My daughter has participated in weekend pistol competition, as well as my son-inlaw. My grandkids also operate dirt bikes, ride horses (rescued race type), were active in soccer, basketball, karate and wrestling. If children are taught properly, they are better equipped and mature than many adults. Coddle the kids and the end result is drug overdoses, mass shootings, smash and grab robberies, rapes, etc.

Kyle wished to be a responsible community volunteer. There is something to be said about those that contribute to the community versus those that think that community organizing makes them credible. Regardless of how or when Kyle obtained his rifle, he legally had it on him for protection during rioting and he is alive now because he had it. We need more like him and less like those he was forced to put down.

[Gulfcoast]

I am a staunch supporter of the 2nd amendment but I also think that in cases where it can be proven that there was a cavalier and reckless disregard for the safety of others that a gun owner should be held criminally responsible.

In the case of the Crumbleys I think that the prosecution does, in fact, have evidence that the parents knowingly gave their son access to a gun along with ammunition. They had been notified by the school of their son's google searches for ammo while in class. They had been called into the school on the very day that this incident happened after a teacher discovered a disturbing drawing done by Ethan in class. The parents knew that their kid had access to a weapon but did not tell the school that and they refused to bring their son home with them. Within 2 hours of that meeting their son was shooting up the school.

Yes, the parents should be held accountable for their reckless disregard for the safety of others. They could have prevented this tragedy and they chose not to.

Whether any school officials should be held accountable, too, is a different matter.

[Byte1]

I am a staunch supporter of the 2nd amendment but I also think that in cases where it can be proven that there was a cavalier and reckless disregard for the safety of others that a gun owner should be held criminally responsible.

In the case of the Crumbleys I think that the prosecution does, in fact, have evidence that the parents knowingly gave their son access to a gun along with ammunition. They had been notified by the school of their son's google searches for ammo while in class. They had been called into the school on the very day that this incident happened after a teacher discovered a disturbing drawing done by Ethan in class. The parents knew that their kid had access to a weapon but did not tell the school that and they refused to bring their son home with them. Within 2 hours of that meeting their son was shooting up the school.

Yes, the parents should be held accountable for their reckless disregard for the safety of others. They could have prevented this tragedy and they chose not to.

Whether any school officials should be held accountable, too, is a different matter.

Wrong thread.

[Lindsyburnsy]

Hopefully this will start a new trend, holding parents, or any gun owner accountable if a child gets their hands on the firearm and shoots someone with it. I'm sure that if people had to insure their guns just as auto owners have to, people would be a lot more careful about not leaving firearms unlocked and/or where kids can get them. It is time for gun owners to be held accountable!

[Caymus]

Hopefully this will start a new trend, holding parents, or any gun owner accountable if a child gets their hands on the firearm and shoots someone with it. I'm sure that if people had to insure their guns just as auto owners have to, people would be a lot more careful about not leaving firearms unlocked and/or where kids can get them. It is time for gun owners to be held accountable!

Why not hold parents accountable for any crime committed by a child?

[Byte1]

Hopefully this will start a new trend, holding parents, or any gun owner accountable if a child gets their hands on the firearm and shoots someone with it. I'm sure that if people had to insure their guns just as auto owners have to, people would be a lot more careful about not leaving firearms unlocked and/or where kids can get them. It is time for gun owners to be held accountable!

If you are speaking of Kyle R. then I disagree with you. I am glad he put them down like rabid dogs. If you are replying to the other post that has nothing to do with the OP, then that is a different story.
Parents should be held responsible if there is proof of negligence. Personally, I have no problem with arsonists, rapists, etc. being taken care of in a manner that saves the taxpayer money and the system expensive time. Repeat offenders are leaches on society and a waste of resources. If judges would harshly penalize the perpetrators to begin with, maybe we would not have such a crime wave that lasts and lasts.

[Gulfcoast]

Kyle Rittenhouse didn't go into that crowd to shoot them up. He was there to stand guard over a car dealership so that violent rioters wouldn't burn the place down. He only fired the weapon when he was attacked and feared for his life.

Self defense is not a crime. If you don't want to get shot, don't beat a guy holding a gun with a skateboard.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

If you are speaking of Kyle R. then I disagree with you. I am glad he put them down like rabid dogs. If you are replying to the other post that has nothing to do with the OP, then that is a different story.
Parents should be held responsible if there is proof of negligence. Personally, I have no problem with arsonists, rapists, etc. being taken care of in a manner that saves the taxpayer money and the system expensive time. Repeat offenders are leaches on society and a waste of resources. If judges would harshly penalize the perpetrators to begin with, maybe we would not have such a crime wave that lasts and lasts.

So you're fine with vigilante justice. I'll remember that if I ever see you take a left turn without using your turn signal. #WeThePeople are watching.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Kyle Rittenhouse didn't go into that crowd to shoot them up. He was there to stand guard over a car dealership so that violent rioters wouldn't burn the place down. He only fired the weapon when he was attacked and feared for his life.

Self defense is not a crime. If you don't want to get shot, don't beat a guy holding a gun with a skateboard.

He wasn't at the car dealership when he shot any of those three people.

[Byte1]

So you're fine with vigilante justice. I'll remember that if I ever see you take a left turn without using your turn signal. #WeThePeople are watching.

News Flash, it was not "vigilante justice" by anyone's definition. It was Self Defense, and anyone with a one eyed seeing eye dog could see that. But, follow me around all you wish. I always use my turn signal. SOmetimes, I even remember to turn it off after I make my turn...:1rotfl:

[Byte1]

He wasn't at the car dealership when he shot any of those three people.

He wasn't hunting them either. He was running from the violence and resorted to force once he felt his life was in danger. Anyone could see that.

[JMintzer]

He wasn't at the car dealership when he shot any of those three people.

Irrelevant...

[JMintzer]

He wasn't at the car dealership when he shot any of those three people.

Once again, irrelevant...